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Speaker 1: Originals.

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Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. This story can be hard

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Speaker 2: to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but

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Speaker 2: we think it's important not to gloss over the reality

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Speaker 2: of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening.

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Speaker 2: I'm holding in my hands a green spiral notebook that

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Speaker 2: Libby used to document the last few months of her life.

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Speaker 2: I got it from her mom, Cindy, who found it

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Speaker 2: in the trunk of Libby's car after her death. Thumbing

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Speaker 2: through the notebook, a lot of the pages are filled

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Speaker 2: with basic adulting stuff, detailed grocery lists, appointment reminders. Libby

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Speaker 2: was due for an oil change, and from what I

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Speaker 2: can make of her notes, she either was planning to

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Speaker 2: or had already gone to a clinic to get the

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Speaker 2: depot shot, a form of birth control. Cindy told me

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Speaker 2: Christmas was Libby's favorite holiday, and in the notebook it's

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Speaker 2: obvious her shopping list for Xavier, who was four, spread

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Speaker 2: out over a number of pages. On one page, a

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Speaker 2: toy car, air Jordan's, a swing set. On another, fidget toys, chocolate, Peeps,

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Speaker 2: Superman pajamas. Libby decorated these lists with sketches of Christmas

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Speaker 2: trees surrounded by presence and snowmen. It's unclear if she

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Speaker 2: ever bought any of these gifts. She died on December eleventh,

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Paging through Libby's notebook, I stumbled on a

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Speaker 2: date written now incursive, March nineteenth. I realized I'd seen

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Speaker 2: it a few times before on Libby's Facebook page, shortened

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Speaker 2: to three nineteen. When I asked Cindy about this, she

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Speaker 2: told me it was the anniversary of Libby's first date

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Speaker 2: with her boyfriend Devin.

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Speaker 1: They went with his family. They had a real nice

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Speaker 1: blue minivan. First they went to eat, and then they

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Speaker 1: went and seen a movie. And I don't remember the movie.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we went to see Where the Wild

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Speaker 3: Things Are.

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Speaker 2: That's Jamie, Devin's stepmom.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 3: We were howling like the wild things do at the

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Speaker 3: end movie in the theater, and I remember Devin being

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Speaker 3: so embarrassed. I remember him telling me and Charlie the

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Speaker 3: Dax's who he was going to marry at fourteen years old,

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Speaker 3: and we were like, you know, you're so young, and da, da, dad,

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Speaker 3: you have so much to go through, And you know,

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Speaker 3: then it all started.

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Speaker 2: That first date Libby and Devon were only freshmen in

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Speaker 2: high school. For the next six years, the number three

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Speaker 2: nineteen took on an almost sacred significance to Libby, who

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Speaker 2: scrawled it everywhere like an incantation.

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Speaker 1: She would do doodles you know of three nineteen eleven

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Speaker 1: Devin and Libby.

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Speaker 2: Devin loves Sleepy, Laby loves Devon is a fun through win.

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Speaker 1: So what she was totally infatuated, however you want to

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Speaker 1: say it, totally wrapped up in it.

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Speaker 2: The number three nineteen has an entirely different connotation to

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Speaker 2: Cindy now, one very far removed from those early idyllic

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Speaker 2: feelings of obsession and puppy love, because now that number

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Speaker 2: is inextricably linked with the room where police found Libby's body,

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Speaker 2: the room at the sports stadium in.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the room until we received

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Speaker 1: our first reports, and then when I saw that, that's

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Speaker 1: when I was like, oh my god, it was it

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Speaker 1: was room three nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Devon rented that room.

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Speaker 1: They specifically asked for that room because of something. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it was random. They just got that room, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know.

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Speaker 2: Watch from iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is

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Speaker 2: what happened to Libby Caswell.

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Speaker 5: His first inclination was it was homicide.

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Speaker 6: He was crying and I said, and I was like, man,

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Speaker 6: what happened?

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Speaker 1: They asked me my name and it was I Cindy

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Speaker 1: Caswell and tuck him.

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Speaker 6: A minute to get it out of it, and he said,

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Speaker 6: my wife upon herself and.

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Speaker 1: My heart just kind of froze.

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Speaker 2: Watch God see chapter two undetermined.

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Speaker 7: Then undetector Shirley raised department put so.

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Speaker 8: Forrmonia, Yeah, okay, once you want to detect his head

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Speaker 8: in Okay to his apartment.

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Speaker 2: On the evening of December eleventh, twenty seventeen, three hours

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Speaker 2: after calling nine one one to report Libby's death and

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Speaker 2: then leaving the scene, Devon Martin arrives at the Independence

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Speaker 2: Police Department in Libby's car. When he enters the station,

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Speaker 2: he's taken into a small, drab room to make a

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Speaker 2: formal statement. Although he comes involuntarily, he's immediately arrested on

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Speaker 2: a handful of outstanding traffic tickets and read his rights.

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Speaker 8: You have right ring silent. Anything you say cannot be used.

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Speaker 8: Mansion a courterwall. You eight to talk to him. Thirty

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Speaker 8: fourth question and have him president.

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Speaker 2: I obtained a video of Devin's interview with IPD through

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Speaker 2: a Freedom of Information Act request. The original tape is

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Speaker 2: around fifty five minutes long, but for length and clarity purposes,

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Speaker 2: I'm using just parts of it and playing some of

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Speaker 2: it out of order. In the grainy footage, Devin looks upset.

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Speaker 2: He's sweating, jittery, and doesn't seem to know what to

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Speaker 2: do with his hands. He thrust them into the front

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Speaker 2: pocket of his hoodie. He rubs his face.

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Speaker 8: Let's start from the beginning, Okay. Like I said, I

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Speaker 8: want you to be detailed. Wants to be honest, Okay,

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Speaker 8: because I mean this is a deafitty. Have slow take

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Speaker 8: death investigations with her seriously, okay, and what I need how.

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Speaker 7: To use the honest.

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Speaker 2: Detective Steve Schmidley had been at the motel earlier in

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Speaker 2: the night investigating the scene when Devin called nine one

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Speaker 2: one for the second time to say he'd talked to police,

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Speaker 2: so Schmidley headed back to the station to interview him.

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Speaker 2: And here he refers to Libby by her full name,

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Caswell.

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Speaker 4: She's Elizabeth Caswealthy. I'm doing that son's daughter. Bring to

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Speaker 4: get married in March.

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Speaker 2: Devin's voice is soft, like he's on the verge of tears.

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Speaker 2: It's a little hard to understand what he's saying, but

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Speaker 2: he tells the detective he and Libby have a child

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Speaker 2: together and they were going to get married in three

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Speaker 2: months time.

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Speaker 4: Would you guys get would you check into this.

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Speaker 2: Mot Devin tells Detective Schmidley that he arrived at the

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Speaker 2: sports stadium in early that morning. He was with Libby

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Speaker 2: and another friend of theirs, Nick, and they were driving

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Speaker 2: in Libby's car, a black forward fusion. Some of this,

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Speaker 2: like what time they checked in, police already know from

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Speaker 2: accessing motel records, but establishing a timeline of events that

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Speaker 2: day is critical, as police aren't sure exactly when Libby died.

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Speaker 2: There is an almost fourteen hour period of time between

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Speaker 2: when the three friends arrived at the moto all that

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Speaker 2: morning and when Devin called nine one one that evening

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Speaker 2: that is unknown to police.

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Speaker 4: You get there this morning, what do you guys do

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Speaker 4: most of day?

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Speaker 6: Okay, So my friend Nick hung out with us until

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Speaker 6: about maybe maybe eighty nine o'clock in the morning, eight

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Speaker 6: thirty when they left and I took a shower and.

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Speaker 4: I get out of the shower, and she said she

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Speaker 4: was going to take a shower.

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Speaker 6: And I remember because we had been up all night

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Speaker 6: the night before, and I remember laying on the bed

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Speaker 6: and passing out, but fell asleep and I probably woke up,

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Speaker 6: and it.

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Speaker 4: Was it's probably around eight thirty I think roughly.

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Speaker 8: What time do you think you fell asleep on the beat,

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Speaker 8: I would say between ten and eleven o'clock ten am

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Speaker 8: and eleven am this morning, and then at that point

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Speaker 8: you were maimed asleep the entire times that you woke

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Speaker 8: up this evening.

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Speaker 2: Sir Devin says he was asleep for more than eight

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Speaker 2: hours and when he woke up, he noticed Libby wasn't around,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 4: Remember looking she went in the room.

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Speaker 6: So I went to take the bathroom and my belt

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Speaker 6: was the top of it takes to my belt sitting

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Speaker 6: out at the top of the door. And when I

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Speaker 6: opened the door, she fell forward and picked her up,

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Speaker 6: and her thin was so pale and.

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Speaker 7: Her lips were blue.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, man, that's okay.

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Speaker 7: Ryan, Oh, I can't believe this, No, this is real.

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Speaker 2: Devin gets emotional here. He's just told Schmidley that he

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Speaker 2: woke up, looked around for Libby and saw his belt

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Speaker 2: peeking out from the top of the closed bathroom door.

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Speaker 2: When he opened the door, Libby's body fell to the ground.

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Speaker 2: The detective leans back, taking it all in, then starts

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Speaker 2: to recap, but Devon interrupts to tell him about something

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Speaker 2: else that happened right before he went to sleep.

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Speaker 4: Him you got in the shower and you went to bed,

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Speaker 4: and we had the orde about my drug use. That's

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Speaker 4: what we argue about. That was this morning before you

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Speaker 4: went to bed.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, right, I.

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Speaker 4: Forget out a shower.

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Speaker 2: This is information that IPD had already gathered. One of

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Speaker 2: the cops spoke to a guest staying in the room

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Speaker 2: next door who heard a loud argument between a man

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Speaker 2: and a woman. According to Devon, their fight was over

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Speaker 2: his continued use of methamphetamine. Drugs were a constant source

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Speaker 2: of tension between the couple. Schmidley doesn't seem very surprised

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Speaker 2: to learn about Devn's drug use, and it's likely this

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Speaker 2: was a pretty familiar story to him. Independence, Missouri has

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Speaker 2: a long history with meth which I'll get into later,

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Speaker 2: and the sports stadium in It's not a particularly nice

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Speaker 2: place to stay in the year later. Up to Livy's death,

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Speaker 2: IPD had been called there more than one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty times for theft, assault, and incidents involving drugs. Schmidley

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Speaker 2: himself had responded on a handful of occasions. The detective

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Speaker 2: doesn't linger on Devin's drug use, but before he can

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Speaker 2: get to his next question, Devin pivots again and offers

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Speaker 2: some more unprompted information about Libby and her mental state.

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Speaker 4: I didn't think she would ever do it.

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Speaker 6: You know, she was probably without killing herself the day before,

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Speaker 6: but it was like she okays a lot of times

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Speaker 6: when she says.

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Speaker 7: That, you know, I don't.

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Speaker 4: So she talked about killing herself today because the work. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 4: why just because of our situation she set up with.

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Speaker 6: We have boss Christy and our son Ashley. I stay

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Speaker 6: at christ the other but he presides with her mother,

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Speaker 6: and we were going to get everything strange.

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Speaker 2: Not still, the custody situation with their son was complicated,

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Speaker 2: and I'll get to it later. But the picture Devin

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Speaker 2: paints of Libby is of a depressed mother, forcibly separated

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Speaker 2: from her son and frustrated by her boyfriend's drug problem.

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Speaker 2: Devin's story provides a reason why Libby might have taken

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Speaker 2: her own life. Then he offers up his own theory

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Speaker 2: for how she did it. Remember, Devin never says he

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Speaker 2: actually saw Libby hanging because the bathroom door was closed,

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Speaker 2: but he tells the detective that he thinks his belt

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Speaker 2: was too long to have kept her feet off the ground.

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Speaker 6: I'm really trying to understand it all because there's no

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Speaker 6: way she going to hurt herself from the door, you know,

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Speaker 6: Like howter she's hung there with my belts long.

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Speaker 7: Have been on the dround.

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Speaker 2: It's an odd fact. I've puzzled over it too, But

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Speaker 2: Devin had an answer for Detective Schmidley.

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Speaker 6: So I've been sitting kind of thankfully we're gonna how

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Speaker 6: could it have happened?

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Speaker 4: I'm taking maybe she put it in the door and

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Speaker 4: like chi until.

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Speaker 6: She passed out, because went out opened the door, she

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Speaker 6: fell forward.

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Speaker 2: Devin later tells the detective this is something he'd seen

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Speaker 2: Libby do before, put a belt around her neck and

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Speaker 2: pretend like she was strangling herself.

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Speaker 6: I mean when they were younger, and so she would

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Speaker 6: have like you know, we in arguments up and she would.

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Speaker 4: Have like she's chunking herself with the belt.

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Speaker 2: Actually, Detective Schmidley asked Stephen what he did after he

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Speaker 2: found Libby's body.

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Speaker 7: Graded her.

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Speaker 6: I didn't notice the belt but around her neck until

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Speaker 6: after I'd pulled her apartment and she was so sick.

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Speaker 7: So I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: Now you're fine, You're fine.

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Speaker 7: So poor baby?

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Speaker 4: Well, oh man, So what do you do at that point?

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Speaker 8: Oncebably you assume okay, they break it out.

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Speaker 4: I just same Tuesday.

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Speaker 6: I try to undo the belt a little bit where

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Speaker 6: I keep Field close to something and I think I'm

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Speaker 6: taking too much and cut it. Okay, Fields, So I

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Speaker 6: cold mourn. How are your shock? And I got in

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Speaker 6: the car and I went to my dad.

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Speaker 2: Devin's explanation. He was in shock, so he drove to

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Speaker 2: his dad's. It might sound bizarre, but in my experience

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Speaker 2: as a journalist covering traumatic events, people can act in

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Speaker 2: all kinds of unexpected ways. You don't really know how

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Speaker 2: you'll respond to a tragedy until it happens to you.

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Speaker 2: You may think you'll become act rationally, but when was

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Speaker 2: the last time you found a dead body? Schmidly, in

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Speaker 2: any case, seems to listen to this story without much judgment.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't question Devin's decision to run or express much

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Speaker 2: curiosity about where he went. He notes it and moves on.

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Speaker 2: But there's another detective in the room who up until

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Speaker 2: now has just been listening, and he's more skeptical.

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Speaker 7: You see how this looks suspicious at it. That's why

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Speaker 7: I'm here.

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Speaker 4: That's why I'm here, you know.

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Speaker 2: By this point in the interview, Devon has been sitting

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Speaker 2: inside a small interrogation room for about forty minutes. This

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Speaker 2: is what IPD has learned so far. Devin and Libby

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Speaker 2: and another friend, nick checked into the sports stadiumen early

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Speaker 2: that morning. After nick Le, Devin and Libby fought about

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Speaker 2: his drug use. Devon went to sleep sometime that morning

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Speaker 2: and Libby headed into the shower. Devin woke up around

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Speaker 2: eight pm, walked over to the bathroom and saw the

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Speaker 2: end of his belt sticking out over the top of

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Speaker 2: the door. He opened the door and Libby's body fell

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Speaker 2: to the ground inside the bathroom. He touched her body

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Speaker 2: to see if she was alive, and then panicking, he

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Speaker 2: called nine one one and then drove away. Detective Schmidley's

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Speaker 2: tone throughout the interview is relaxed and understanding, almost conciliatory

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Speaker 2: if he has any real issues or concerns with Devin's

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Speaker 2: version of events. He doesn't say anything, but as the

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Speaker 2: conversation proceeds, the other detective jumps in Prod's Devin a

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Speaker 2: little harder. Classic good cop, bad cop.

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Speaker 9: D See how this looks suspicious, Devin, just by you leaving?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to.

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Speaker 9: We've investigated a lot of definitely I mean detecta Schmidley

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Speaker 9: and I.

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Speaker 7: You know, we have a lot of experience, and some

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Speaker 7: are very.

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Speaker 9: Obvious suicidal you know, suicide deaths, and some are not

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Speaker 9: so obvious.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, and Jaran Man, I promise you I would not

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Speaker 6: I would not ever do anything to harm her physically.

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Speaker 6: I would prevent her from being harmed physically with my.

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Speaker 7: Now, there is going to be an autosy, you know

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Speaker 7: that they can.

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Speaker 6: Determine absolutely, and how would actually get the results?

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Speaker 9: When do you think that autosy, of course, is going

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Speaker 9: to indicate because she had trained herself.

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Speaker 7: You see how it's kind of suspicious.

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Speaker 9: A little bit because we have witnesses say that you

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Speaker 9: are arguing with her.

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Speaker 6: That day and like I said we had gotten into

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Speaker 6: an argument that morning. Okay, I would not do nothing

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Speaker 6: to her in my.

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Speaker 7: Wife, I understand.

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Speaker 4: I'm not trying to say you're a tout.

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Speaker 6: I just I'm trying to explain expressed that you.

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Speaker 7: And I understand that.

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Speaker 9: I just want to I just want you to know

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Speaker 9: that that it's just a little suspicious.

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Speaker 7: Of how you reacted, which you know most people would

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Speaker 7: stick around.

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Speaker 6: Look to be honest with you, I've never had a

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Speaker 6: good incouterance police stand.

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Speaker 2: Devin is twenty one at the time of this interview,

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Speaker 2: and he's no stranger to IPD. By my account, he

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Speaker 2: had been arrested around ten times before for various nonviolent offenses.

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Speaker 7: You've got to understand that we have a job to

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Speaker 7: do and it's not personal.

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Speaker 9: But when we have several different factors involving this investigation

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Speaker 9: which are suspicious in nature, which you know, I mean,

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Speaker 9: I understand your drug ucision everything, but the whole argument thing,

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Speaker 9: and then just the way that she was positioned.

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Speaker 4: As far as well, that's because I think they're okay,

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Speaker 4: and that's.

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Speaker 9: Why you're here to explain some of those things that

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Speaker 9: we feel that are suspicious nature.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, our flights are loud realize it well, obviously.

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Speaker 7: Because people heard you.

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Speaker 2: The second detective pushes Devin about a claim he made

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Speaker 2: earlier in the interview that Libby choked herself in the past.

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Speaker 2: Something about this story seems off to him, like maybe

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Speaker 2: it's a little too convenient, so he circles back to it.

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Speaker 7: But she's tried to choke herself out with a belt before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I've had to literally pulled.

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Speaker 6: Her, pull her hand off and hit the belt out

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Speaker 6: from around her night and yeah, and that is the

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Speaker 6: honest truth.

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Speaker 9: I mean, do you see And and I've investigated a

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Speaker 9: lot of dancer, but I've never seen anybody be able

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Speaker 9: to choke themselves.

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Speaker 7: Out and kill themselves.

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Speaker 4: That's what.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you see what I'm saying because you're going to

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Speaker 7: pass out?

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Speaker 6: Yes, Cerre first, Yes, Okay, Honestly, I want to see

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Speaker 6: if I don't know what exactly, how it.

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Speaker 3: Hap m hm.

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Speaker 7: So let me ask you a question of it.

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Speaker 4: Okay, There's no doubt in my mind that.

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Speaker 7: You love her to death. There's no doubt in.

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Speaker 9: My mind that you guys, you know, were high grade school,

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Speaker 9: middle school to high school sweethearts.

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Speaker 7: Okay, but to put this to rest a little bit.

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Speaker 9: It's something bad happened that thanks got out of controls

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Speaker 9: positive that prompts I.

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Speaker 6: Doubt help put my hand on the Bible and I'll

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Speaker 6: put it all and everything I love, all my children

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Speaker 6: on my son's life.

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Speaker 4: I would not never do nothing like that.

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Speaker 7: Never. Okay what I.

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Speaker 1: Heard in mind that.

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Speaker 7: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I hope you guys do believe me.

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Speaker 6: If you don't, everything forensics figures out will prove me

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Speaker 6: that I have.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to call y'all and I.

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Speaker 7: Would just lived. And you know so I wouldn't have

360
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Speaker 7: done that is worth.

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Speaker 4: The truth is.

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Speaker 2: Beyond denying any involvement in Libby's death. Devon is adamant

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Speaker 2: that he'd never heard her before.

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Speaker 6: I've never put I act a pride in the fact

365
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Speaker 6: that I've never put money into on to the woman

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Speaker 6: unless you to.

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Speaker 7: Stop her from hurt me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's like hold her down.

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Speaker 7: Stay. Urge is to call there. That's the only thing

370
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Speaker 7: I've ever done that the girl.

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Speaker 2: As the second detective said to Devin, some suicides are straightforward,

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Speaker 2: some are not. In Libby's case, there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of suspicious facts at play, but Devin seems to have

374
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Speaker 2: explanations for all of them. The weird position of Libby's

375
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Speaker 2: body was because he held her and tried to loosen

376
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Speaker 2: the belt. He left the scene because he was scared

377
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: of the cops and had been using drugs. And yes

378
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 2: they had an argument, but that's just how their relationship

379
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: was volatile. The interview wraps up just after midnight and

380
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Speaker 2: around the same time i'd he clears the crime scene

381
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 2: at the sports stadium in but before they do so,

382
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: they check to see if there's any evidence to corroborate

383
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Speaker 2: Devn's story that Libby hanged herself with a belt over

384
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Speaker 2: the bathroom door, and they find something a mark on

385
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: the top of the door. The crime scene tech notes

386
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: that it appears fresh and seems to be about the

387
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: width of Devon's belt. Schmidley has one more person he

388
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Speaker 2: wants to speak with Devon's friend, Nick, the other person

389
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Speaker 2: inside the motel room that morning and possibly the last

390
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: person besides Devin to see Libby alive. At the detective's request,

391
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Speaker 2: Nick comes down to the police station and they talk

392
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Speaker 2: for a few minutes.

393
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Speaker 8: It was just you and Devin Ellis, but their okay,

394
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Speaker 8: any issues?

395
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Speaker 10: No, I mean, she is like very like that's a

396
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 10: just stressed about herself. She's just like very depressed. She's

397
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 10: dressed under brass. So she was talking about to hitting

398
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Speaker 10: the suicide and I was like, no, you.

399
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Speaker 7: Know, when did she talk about comment Suicideamorian?

400
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 5: And I told her.

401
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 7: He was like, you know, want to do that? I

402
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 7: talked to her about her kid.

403
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: Nick corroborates most of Devon's story and adds something new.

404
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 2: He tells Detective Schmidley that Devin called him after finding

405
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: Libby's body. Nick then returned to the motel and the

406
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: two drove together in Libby's car to Devn's dad's house.

407
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 2: Schmidley wraps up the interview and sends him on his way.

408
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: In his reports from that night, the detective summarizes his

409
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: interviews with both Devon and Nick and writes, quote investigation

410
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: to continue, but I have the case file on Libby's death,

411
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: and after Schmidley's interviews with Devon and Nick and the

412
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 2: discovery of the mark on the bathroom door, the file

413
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: essentially trails off. There's very little to suggest this initial

414
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: investigation goes any further. This was kind of surprising to

415
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: me because when police first arrive at the sports stadium,

416
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: in it's clear they're treating it as a homicide. There

417
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: are at least a dozen officers at the scene, detectives,

418
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: patrol cops, a crime scene tech, plus various personnel from

419
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: the Medical Examiner's office. But then sometime during the night,

420
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: there's a shift and the focus of the investigation turns

421
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: from homicide to suicide. By the time Cindy is notified

422
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: about Libby's death, the IPD seems to have made up

423
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: their minds.

424
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Speaker 1: The only question they asked the night they knocked on

425
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: our door to tell us our daughter was found in

426
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Speaker 1: a motail bathroom. Was she suicidal.

427
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: The case isn't officially closed that night, though, IPD has

428
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: to wait for the medical examiner to make his own

429
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: determination on how Libby died. As one of the detectives

430
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: told Devin, there's going to be an autopsy and that

431
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: should give everyone more answers.

432
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Right, they were going to set aside a room for

433
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: us to come and be with her and say her goodbyes,

434
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: and we could stay as long as we wanted.

435
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: A few days after Libby's death, Cindy and her family

436
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: were given the opportunity to see Libby's body in private

437
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: at the funeral home. They planned to do a cremation

438
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 2: and service for Libby, but wanted a moment alone with her.

439
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 2: First years later, Cindy's grief is still so raw it's

440
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 2: hard for her to speak.

441
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: And she just looked so beautiful, you know. They had

442
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: had done her makeup and combed her hair, and she wasn't,

443
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: you know, dressed in anything fancy. It was just, you know,

444
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: she was wrapped in a blanket up up under her

445
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: arms and her arms were folded and her head was

446
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: like it was on a pillow. I talked to her

447
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: and I told her I'm sorry that I couldn't protect

448
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: her and loved her, and then we just kind of

449
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: stayed in there for a little long. Cuner and I

450
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: had noticed that she had some scratches on her forearm,

451
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: really deep scratches, and I noticed her fingernails were broken off,

452
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: and she had a bruise on her nose.

453
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: Cindy told me that Libby always liked to have her

454
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: nails nicely done. She was wearing light orange acrylics at

455
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: the time of her death, but at the funeral home,

456
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: Libby's hands looked raggedy. There was a cut on one

457
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: finger and two of her acrylics were broken off roughly.

458
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: I got my phone out, I took a picture of

459
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: the scratches on her arm, hidden her fingernails.

460
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 2: Why did you decide to document it yourself?

461
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know if you know, if they had documented

462
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: that stuff. So I just decided I would.

463
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: Seeing Libby's body in that state unsettled Cindy, and so

464
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 2: later when she got home, she decided she would look

465
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: through Libby's car to see what she could find. Devin

466
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: and Nick had been the last ones to drive Libby's

467
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: car after her body was discovered. They later returned it

468
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: to police, and Cindy got the car back the following day.

469
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: It had been so in her driveway ever since. From

470
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: the outside, the car was newly dented, the windshield cracked,

471
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: the dashboard loose.

472
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: She was so proud of that car. I was just

473
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: devastated that her car was in the condition it was

474
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: because she took such good care of her car. It

475
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: was always clean and smelled nice, and so it was

476
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: all very just kind of shocking kind of devastation, you know.

477
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: I just felt so heavy. I thought, how did this

478
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: come to this?

479
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: Cindy had been too distraught to look inside the car

480
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: until now, and what she found surprised her in the

481
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: crevice of the seat, an orange acrylic fingernail. She stared

482
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: at it for a moment, thinking about Libby, her body,

483
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: the police investigation.

484
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: I thought, well, they must have missed this fingernail, you know,

485
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: or I had no idea what I was, why that

486
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: would be there, And I was naive. It wasn't till

487
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: much later, and I thought, why would they not search

488
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: the car?

489
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: Cindy told me she was under the impression that the

490
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: investigation into Libby's death was ongoing. Two months went by

491
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: while she waited for an update from the IPD.

492
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: We tried to call several times to speak with someone,

493
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: and we never got a hold of anybody, and we

494
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: would just leave voicemails. We just didn't understand why they

495
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: just wouldn't talk to us.

496
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: On February twentieth, twenty eighteen, Cindy received her first big

497
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: piece of news in the case, not from one of

498
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: the detectives she'd been trying to reach at IPD, but

499
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: in a letter from the funeral home. Inside was Libby's

500
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: death certificate. The autopsy was complete. The police received the

501
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: autopsy report around the same time Cindy got the death certificate.

502
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: Here's Major Anka, one of the officers who worked on

503
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: Libby's case.

504
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 5: We had gotten the report back from the medical examiner.

505
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: I can remember I've sitting in my office and Smili

506
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 5: came in and he was beside himself and said, the

507
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 5: medical examiner ruled Libby's death undetermined. I go, what do

508
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 5: you mean they ruled undetermined? He goes, yeah, they ruled

509
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 5: it undetermined. That was something that really caught us off

510
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 5: guard because when we get a you know, all of

511
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: our medical examiner reports they come back suicide, homicide, national causes.

512
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 5: I mean, this was the first undetermined that most of

513
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 5: us had seen.

514
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: When we received the death certificate and read undetermined, it

515
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: was like, you know, affirmation for me. I can't say relief,

516
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, because there's no relief, isn't that But in

517
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: that feeling of Okay, we know she didn't do that,

518
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: but now there's this horrible reality, you know that the

519
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: person she trusted to protect her, you know, potentially did

520
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: it to or her.

521
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: Cindy was suspicious of Devon, and rumors were circulating in

522
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: Independence that there was more to the story than he

523
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: was letting on. Devon had been released the morning after

524
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: he was interviewed by police, and as we heard earlier

525
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: this episode, he had been hoping the autopsy report would

526
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: clear his name.

527
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 7: Wouldn't you think that to any Kate Train other stuff?

528
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: But the autopsy report didn't clear Devon undetermined didn't roll

529
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: out homicide, but it didn't roll out suicide either. It

530
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: just meant the medical examiner couldn't really figure out how

531
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: Libby died. It meant that the Independent's police department should

532
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: be looking at other evidence to figure out what happened

533
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: to Libby.

534
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: I was confident that they would launch a full investigation

535
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: at that point.

536
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: Specifically, she thought they would focus on Devon.

537
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: I hope they would be looking at his story and

538
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: corroborating what his story was.

539
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: But that's not what happened. Instead, the IPD told Cindy

540
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: the case was closed despite the medical examiner's ruling.

541
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: In my mind, I go, well, I'm thinking, isn't this backwards.

542
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: Isn't the emmy who decides if he doesn't sign suicide,

543
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: don't they police do an investigation?

544
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 7: You know?

545
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: And that is when that was my first time that

546
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: I thought something's not right here.

547
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: After the interview with Devin Martin the night of Libby's death.

548
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: IPD did very little to corroborate Devn's story that Libby

549
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: was suicidal, beyond talking to his friend Nick.

550
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 10: No, I mean, she was like very like just stressed

551
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 10: about herself. She was just like very depressed.

552
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: And on Devon's other claim that he'd never laid a

553
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: hand on Libby, I.

554
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 6: Would not ever do anything to harm her physically. I

555
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 6: would prevent her from being born physically with life my neither.

556
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: IPD made no attempt to interview those who knew Libby

557
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: and Devin best, who could speak to the intimate details

558
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: of their relationship, which maybe would not have been that

559
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: unusual in another case with different circumstances, except for the

560
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: fact that inside the ipd's own files were records of

561
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: over a dozen nine one one calls involving the couple.

562
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: They had so much information about domestic violence between the

563
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: two of them.

564
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: They had it in their hands.

565
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: They knew that.

566
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 11: So when I opened up the door, I seen Devin

567
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 11: was on top of it and he was choking her,

568
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 11: and I got upset. I went out to the Independent

569
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 11: Police Department where it occurred, and I just told them

570
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 11: what I had witnessed.

571
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: That's next time on What Happened to Libby Caswell? From

572
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 2: I Think That Did, from the Rain and Until Keep

573
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: You heard of the Grown.

574
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 11: Don't Me?

575
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted

576
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: by me Melissa Jelson, with writing and story editing by

577
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson. Episodes are edited by Jeremy

578
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: Thal and Carl Catle. Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch.

579
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 2: For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel,

580
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: with our supervising producer Carl Catle. Fact checking by Maya Shukre.

581
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 2: Our theme song is written by Aaron Kaufman and performed

582
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: by Aaron Kaufman and Melisabeth Wolfe. Original music by Aaron

583
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal. Our episodes are

584
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: mixed and mastered by Carl Catle. To find out more

585
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: about my investigation or to send a tip, please email

586
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: me at what Happened to Libby at gmail dot com.

587
00:35:52,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening, water Away, five eyes so

588
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: in pieces.

589
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 10: In pieces, and don't you.

590
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 2: Allow you until until on Away? Five eyes so in

591
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: pieces and pieces and the