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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening

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Speaker 1: in women's basketball right now is what we've been trying

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Speaker 1: to get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums

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Speaker 1: where athletes break barriers and set records. Katlin Clark broke

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Speaker 1: the all time single game assists record.

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Speaker 2: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey everybody, I hope you

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Speaker 1: all had a good week. Thank you for listening to

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Speaker 1: another edition of Naked Sports with yours truly. I on

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Speaker 1: today's podcast will attempt to do something that I think

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Speaker 1: is important, And I also wanted to talk about this

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Speaker 1: particular topic because it's coming out over and over again,

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Speaker 1: and if I'm gonna be honest with you and candid

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Speaker 1: with you, I don't think there's enough research. I just

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Speaker 1: don't think there's enough information about transgender athletes.

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Speaker 3: DA DA DA.

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Speaker 1: That is the topic I am choosing to address. It

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Speaker 1: is Pride Month, so it is timely. However, and I

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Speaker 1: say this to you knowing that you all understand me,

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Speaker 1: at least if you listen to the podcast. You know

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Speaker 1: that I'm pretty open about talking about most things, but

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Speaker 1: I don't like to talk about things I'm not really

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Speaker 1: educated on it. And so I say that to say,

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Speaker 1: I've noticed there's been a lot of conversation about transgender athletes,

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Speaker 1: and apparently there is this notion and or philosophy that

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Speaker 1: there are of transgender athletes trying to compete in girls sports,

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Speaker 1: especially at the high school level and below. And if

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Speaker 1: I threw out some numbers, you'd say, well, okay, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like there's some sort of epidemic where transgender

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Speaker 1: athletes are trying to participate in girls sports. Nationwide, on

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Speaker 1: the collegiate level, there are approximately half a million student

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Speaker 1: athletes five hundred thousand, and of those student athletes, I

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Speaker 1: recently read that about a handful less than a dozen

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Speaker 1: or transgender. That means I don't even know what those

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Speaker 1: percentages are, but it doesn't seem as if there's some

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Speaker 1: sort of epidemic, as some people on some side of

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Speaker 1: the aisle would lead you to believe. Recently, I was

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Speaker 1: on a CNN panel, and not just on the CNN panel,

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Speaker 1: I'm often asked about this by different people. I just

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Speaker 1: wish two things. I wish it wasn't such a controversial topic. One.

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Speaker 1: Two I wish there wasn't so much misinformation. Three I

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Speaker 1: wish that people did not weaponize sports so that they

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Speaker 1: can use sports as a way to marginalize other people

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Speaker 1: that they are not comfortable with. To use sports as

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Speaker 1: a weapon, when sports in itself should be inclusive, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty sad. Sports in itself should give you self esteem.

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Speaker 1: It should teach you camaraderie. It should teach you how

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Speaker 1: to compete, It should teach you how to problem solve,

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Speaker 1: be a solution oriented person. And so now, especially under

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Speaker 1: the current climate that we are in in this country,

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Speaker 1: no one is really safe, you know, And now that

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Speaker 1: everyone is asking me about transgender athletes, I thought it'd

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Speaker 1: be smart for me to one find someone who could

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Speaker 1: talk about it better than me, or two just provide

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Speaker 1: you all with some context. So as I was saying, recently,

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Speaker 1: I was on a CNN panel and I was asked

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Speaker 1: about story out of Northern California, clovid to be exact,

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Speaker 1: and you may have heard of it, and it goes

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Speaker 1: as follows. These are the particulars a transgender athlete was

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Speaker 1: set to participate in a CIF Track and Field championship, which,

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Speaker 1: as many could imagine, divided parents and students alike. The

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Speaker 1: student athlete in question was in the eleventh grade. Is

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Speaker 1: in the eleventh grade, and when this student athlete made

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Speaker 1: it to the championships in Northern California, the story gained

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Speaker 1: national attention, and parents and students and leaders and anyone

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Speaker 1: who wanted to weigh in weighed in on this particular

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Speaker 1: story about whether or not this transgender athlete should be

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Speaker 1: allowed to compete in the women's category in the girls

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Speaker 1: category for the CIF Track and Field Championships. Abe Hernandez

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Speaker 1: is a transgender student ultimately allowed to compete, but it

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Speaker 1: was done so with a compromise so her Hernandez or

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Speaker 1: to medal. This was before the championship. Hernandez would get

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Speaker 1: a spot on the podium. It would be an extra

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Speaker 1: spot so that it wouldn't take away from any of

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Speaker 1: the biological female athletes who were competing. Hernandez did compete

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Speaker 1: and meddled in two different events, taking home gold. Hernandez

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Speaker 1: shared that medal with two other girls who were also

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Speaker 1: in competition with Hernandez. And listen to what some folks

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Speaker 1: had to say about Hernandez being allowed to compete and

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Speaker 1: what they thought it meant for other female athletes.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna listen.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to.

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Speaker 3: I have a right to speak truth. Boy, girls are girls.

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Speaker 3: There's probably not be long competing against those girls. Period.

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Speaker 3: What a coward of a woman you are allowing that?

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Speaker 4: Telling are women telling our woman telling girls to go

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Speaker 4: and compete against a boy?

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Speaker 3: How embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: How you're a mother, You're a mother, Stand up like

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Speaker 1: a mother.

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Speaker 3: I am a mother.

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Speaker 2: I'm protecting girls.

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Speaker 3: You want a boy?

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Speaker 5: How many people support the boy?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 1: Tell me to shut up.

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Speaker 4: I was respectful to you.

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Speaker 3: Your mental illness is on your son.

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Speaker 1: So the reason I decided to talk about transgender athletes

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Speaker 1: is simply because I've noticed that this issue, in particular,

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Speaker 1: as I said before, is being weaponized for political gain

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Speaker 1: or simply as a way to say I don't like you,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want you involved in society. It's a

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Speaker 1: way to exclude a class of people. And if I'm

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Speaker 1: honest with you, and this is why I say this

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Speaker 1: is the hard part for me, and I'll say the

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Speaker 1: quiet part out loud. My hope is that I could

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Speaker 1: always have an honest converse, especially with those who listen

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. But I do know I can say

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Speaker 1: this with full confidence. There's a lot about this topic

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Speaker 1: that many of us do not know. It's not well researched,

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Speaker 1: it's not talked about in a way that makes sense

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Speaker 1: from both sides, all sides. And I also believe there

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Speaker 1: used to be some more science. This is my take,

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Speaker 1: but this is a lot that I just don't understand

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Speaker 1: on face value. If I am a parent and I

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Speaker 1: have two young girls competing in a high school competition,

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Speaker 1: I probably would lean towards the side of saying nope,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not comfortable with a transgender athlete competing with

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Speaker 1: my girls, because I don't know if it's a fair fight.

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Speaker 1: Does that transgender athlete happen to edge, would it be

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Speaker 1: allowed any other circumstance? Does that take away from something

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Speaker 1: that my daughter deserves. These are all the questions that

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Speaker 1: I would have if I was a parent. And I

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Speaker 1: say this to you because I've talked to many parents,

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Speaker 1: and one of my friends, who has two daughters playing volleyball,

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Speaker 1: said to me, if I didn't have kids, I probably

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Speaker 1: would say let her Nandez compete. But because I have

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Speaker 1: two girls who compete at the middle school and high

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Speaker 1: school level, I don't know if I think it's fair.

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Speaker 1: Now here's the deal. That may sound cool, it may

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Speaker 1: sound as if she wants to exclude transgender athletes, but

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Speaker 1: I do know when talking to her, she said she

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Speaker 1: just didn't have enough information, but just on just her

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Speaker 1: gut feeling brought off the rip. That was her thought. However,

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Speaker 1: and I want to make sure we are very clear.

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Speaker 1: Just because someone says they don't want their daughter to

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Speaker 1: compete with transgender athletes does not mean that that particular

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Speaker 1: parent wants to be mean and or cruel to transgender athletes.

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Speaker 1: And that was what was happening with Hernandez. When this

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Speaker 1: story first broke, there were protests. They were grown adults

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Speaker 1: calling this this young kid all sorts of names, which

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Speaker 1: is so disgusting. And there's also this lack of humanity,

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Speaker 1: almost as if ab Hernandez was not a human being,

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Speaker 1: and that anything could be said or done to this teenager.

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Speaker 1: And that's where I get upset. Two things can be true.

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Speaker 1: I could agree with my friend who has two little

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Speaker 1: girls playing high school sports in middle school sports, but

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Speaker 1: I also can agree with the fact that people still

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Speaker 1: need to be treated like human beings. I understand that

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Speaker 1: people were upset, parents, politicians, you name it. They were

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Speaker 1: upset because of what they thought was being taken away.

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Speaker 1: But yet, and still, that doesn't mean you have to

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Speaker 1: treat that teenager horribly. We're going to take a quick

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Speaker 1: break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back in just a few moments. So I was

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Speaker 1: moved by this conversation with my girlfriend, and I started

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Speaker 1: calling around doing some research. I started asking other people

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Speaker 1: what they thought. I started to listen to a lot

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Speaker 1: of stories about Olympians who were transgenders, and Olympians on

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Speaker 1: the collegiate level who were transgenders. The pros and the cons.

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Speaker 1: What does it mean, what does it take? All of

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Speaker 1: the things that I just really didn't know. And I

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Speaker 1: started to dig deep, and what I realized is that

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if this makes a difference for anyone,

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Speaker 1: but at the Olympic level and also at the collegiate level,

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Speaker 1: there is significant testing. Before transgender athlete is allowed to

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Speaker 1: compete in a sport, there is hormone testing, There has

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Speaker 1: to be clearance from a doctor, there has to be

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Speaker 1: proof that hormone therapy is being provided. There are all

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Speaker 1: of these checks and balances on the collegiate and on

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Speaker 1: the Olympian level. So I call my girlfriend and I

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Speaker 1: talked to her about this, and I want to share

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Speaker 1: this with you all because it really blew my mind

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Speaker 1: and we were having a very honest conversation. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read this text, and this is from someone

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Speaker 1: I respect who is in sports, and someone who had

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Speaker 1: a very different perspective but also understood my perspective. My

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Speaker 1: friend writes, here's the thing. Some of these people are

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Speaker 1: claiming it about fairness, when in truth they just don't

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Speaker 1: want them to exist in any capacity and feel no peace.

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Speaker 1: Bathroom sports. It will never be enough. That's why some

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Speaker 1: states are banning gender affirming care altogether. Because it wasn't

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Speaker 1: ever about sports. They keep going to the point where

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Speaker 1: they say it's about fairness and sports, and this, that

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Speaker 1: and the third. But it's truly not about sports, because

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Speaker 1: sports is such low hanging fruit. If you can get

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Speaker 1: people to ban them from sports, it won't be hard

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Speaker 1: to get people to support them being banned elsewhere. And

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Speaker 1: when my friends sent me that text, that's when the

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Speaker 1: discrimination really popped in my head, and I thought, is

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Speaker 1: it about sports or is it about excluding a class

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Speaker 1: of people that you don't believe deserve the same civil

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Speaker 1: rights that you have. I'm asking myself that question. I

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Speaker 1: am asking others who are opposed to transgender athletes competing,

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Speaker 1: I am asking you that question. I got even more

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Speaker 1: detailed with her, and I said, help me understand this.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying on the high school level that there

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Speaker 1: is no testing? Not really, because they don't have the resources,

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Speaker 1: that was the response. Not really because high schools don't

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Speaker 1: have the resources. One and two too, there aren't that

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Speaker 1: many transgender athletes to dedicate money to to decide if,

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Speaker 1: in fact, the hormone replacement therapy is working, whether or

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Speaker 1: not they are meeting certain rules like, they just don't

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Speaker 1: have the funds to do the science that is needed.

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Speaker 1: And so as a result, many people administrators on the

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Speaker 1: high school level and the middle school level want to

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Speaker 1: have a compromise, and that's what they tried to do

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Speaker 1: in Clovis, California. That was a compromise that they were

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Speaker 1: trying to do. They came up with and they thought

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Speaker 1: that this would please people on both sides of the aisles.

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Speaker 1: They would please naysayers and those who were forward, But no,

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Speaker 1: people were still very upset. So then my good girlfriend

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Speaker 1: Jamel Hill just so happens to do a podcast this

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Speaker 1: week with a transgender athlete, the very first transgender athlete

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Speaker 1: in the WNBA at least to my knowledge. Lisha cleared

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Speaker 1: it and I listened to this podcast and I was

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Speaker 1: blown away by what I did not know. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to share a few moments with you, and I encourage

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Speaker 1: you really to listen and be be curious about what

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Speaker 1: Lesha's talking about. It really is interesting.

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Speaker 4: I mean, some of the struggles are just the toll

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Speaker 4: of being the first. Like I think, there's so much.

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Speaker 4: I have a deep gratitude and appreciation for people in

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Speaker 4: history who've been the first, especially black folks, and so

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Speaker 4: I know I'm in that line of folks who have

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Speaker 4: had to blaze a trail.

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Speaker 2: But what comes with that is like an emotional toll.

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Speaker 4: It's like it's lonely and it's isolating at times to

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Speaker 4: be the person. Like the analogy for me is like

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Speaker 4: you're just hacking. There's no trails, so you're just in

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Speaker 4: the forest hacking away, like trying to find So you're

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Speaker 4: gonna get scratched and bruised and you're gonna get a

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Speaker 4: little bloody. You're going to be lonely at times because

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Speaker 4: you're figuring it out. So that was tough for me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, in the bubble season is when I really

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Speaker 4: decided I didn't want breasts anymore.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, these gotta go.

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Speaker 4: But then once you make that choice for me, then

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm really embodying the fact that I don't want

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Speaker 4: these anymore. So now I have to live with this

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Speaker 4: body until I can get to a place right where

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Speaker 4: I'm getting a friend in my gender. So that was

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Speaker 4: that was really difficult for me. And that's all happening

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Speaker 4: in the bubble season. We're in Florida, find for our lives,

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Speaker 4: as you know.

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Speaker 2: I think those are some of the big ones.

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Speaker 4: It could be isolating at times, like I don't realize

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Speaker 4: like leadership or getting to the top or being the

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Speaker 4: one of something like.

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Speaker 2: I want there to be many of us.

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Speaker 4: I want there to be so many athletes and people

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Speaker 4: that it's like, great, I'm one of ten, fifteen, twenty.

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Speaker 4: I had to talk to some other athletes in other sports.

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Speaker 4: That was helpful for me to kind of reach out

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Speaker 4: to them.

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Speaker 5: You were you also made a very intentional decision to

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Speaker 5: go public when you had your top surgery and to

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Speaker 5: show people like what that looked like. I mean, for you,

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Speaker 5: what was the significance of not you just having the surgery,

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Speaker 5: but sort of telling the world that, hey, I have

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Speaker 5: made this decision.

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Speaker 2: It was not wanting to be not necessarily in the closets.

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Speaker 4: I think people who make that choice, I wouldn't say

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Speaker 4: it's it's it's a similar to being in the closet.

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Speaker 2: But for me, it was really just wanting to be.

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Speaker 4: Like loud and proud about who I was and know that, like,

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Speaker 4: this isn't something I'm afraid or ashamed of. I didn't

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Speaker 4: know my nipples were gonna end up on USA today.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad I covered them. I put the stars over them,

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Speaker 4: like I didn't expect it to blow up the way

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Speaker 4: it did.

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Speaker 2: So that kind of.

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Speaker 4: Did that decision to share about my top surgery, like

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Speaker 4: it thrust me into a different stratosphere of I don't know,

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Speaker 4: celebrity I would say deity in some ways in the

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Speaker 4: queer community. That was something I wasn't prepared for or

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Speaker 4: like a consequence of that was like, oh whoa Like

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Speaker 4: this is like my story became other people's story to

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Speaker 4: like run with. And up until that point, I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'd shared stuff and our women's basketball world was you.

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Speaker 2: Know, small and intimate.

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Speaker 4: It's clearly blowing up in a big way at this

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Speaker 4: moment in time. But that for me was like oh,

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Speaker 4: and then I'm seeing other people talk about me online

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Speaker 4: and talk about you know, fighting for what pronouns I use,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, thank you, but I also I use

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Speaker 4: all of them. You're not even like this is but

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Speaker 4: it's right. Everyone has a connection to that story because

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Speaker 4: I represent I became a symbol for people. So that

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Speaker 4: was a really fascinating part of it that has had

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Speaker 4: me ever since.

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Speaker 2: Then kind of juggling like what I want to.

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Speaker 4: Share about my life publicly and privately, Like what parts

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Speaker 4: of me do only belong to me? And I don't

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Speaker 4: regret sharing that top surgery at all, but it's had

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Speaker 4: me wrestling with the like okay, yeah, like once you

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Speaker 4: put it out there, it's the world, like they get

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Speaker 4: to run with it, and it's so many fans have

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Speaker 4: really appreciated it.

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Speaker 2: So I love that part about it.

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Speaker 5: I have another follow up for you about that, but

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Speaker 5: before and you can call me a jackass for saying this,

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Speaker 5: but realize this is the nerdy grammar person in me

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Speaker 5: that they them.

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Speaker 3: It just radically doesn't always look right, and it just.

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Speaker 5: Drives me crazy when I see it because being you,

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Speaker 5: because like I know how it's supposed to be used.

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Speaker 5: You know, obviously I pronouns, but it's like the they

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Speaker 5: them has me constantly in a grammatical circle of hell.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just like sometimes people.

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Speaker 7: Like, what it's me, I'm multiple people because you're you're

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Speaker 7: technically you're you're non binary and you're in you're, so yes,

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Speaker 7: you are multiple, but I'm like, grammatically, yeah.

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Speaker 5: It presents some challenges in sentences, yes, but you know,

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Speaker 5: as you just mentioned, a moment ago is like carrying

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Speaker 5: that way to being the first. I remember something Kamala

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Speaker 5: Harris said is that you know when you break a ceiling.

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Speaker 3: It implies breaking is involved, right.

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Speaker 5: So that means that there's yeah, she ate that she

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Speaker 5: dropped the barrow netw is she yea, there's going to

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Speaker 5: be some scaring. But nevertheless, as you say, your story

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Speaker 5: represented so many people who don't have the same voice and.

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Speaker 3: Platform as you.

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Speaker 2: So how do how do you.

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Speaker 3: Handle mentally handle the heaviness of that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, therapy has been one and that's been great

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Speaker 4: talking through it. I have a good amount of trans friends,

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Speaker 4: to particular, two or three in particular that have gone

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Speaker 4: through the experiences and have been people who honestly been

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Speaker 4: a light for me. One of my best friends, Ran Warden,

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Speaker 4: has like in the lighted a path like is I

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Speaker 4: didn't know before them that like even what non binary

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Speaker 4: really meant, because so much of ours is still very

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Speaker 4: like all right, you're either a signed mail at birth.

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Speaker 2: And you want to be a woman.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you're transitioning all the way. There's like this like

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Speaker 4: final destination that you want to get to this point.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 4: I've got people in my life fortunately that have like

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Speaker 4: showed me the way.

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Speaker 2: Like my best friend had talked to her and I was.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh cool, Like at the time, I wasn't thinking

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Speaker 4: about I was like, oh, sure, okay, and then like

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Speaker 4: they were using different pronouns. I was like, all right,

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Speaker 4: I was fumbling. I'm messing him up and be like trying

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Speaker 4: them on and be like, oh, it's weird to say

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Speaker 4: he and she if they. But that representation just sunk

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Speaker 4: something in for me to have that space. So then

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Speaker 4: when I was ready to kind of go through it

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Speaker 4: and ask these questions so my people, my community therapy.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, choosing what to share and what not.

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Speaker 4: To share about my life anymore has been helpful because

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Speaker 4: I used to live in the world where I could

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Speaker 4: I can DM everybody back and I can you know,

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Speaker 4: when you're small enough, you can have those interactions. But

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Speaker 4: the Internet has also turned to a wild, wild, wild place,

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Speaker 4: so I've had to really protect my mental health and

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Speaker 4: aspect too.

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Speaker 5: As you know, right now, we're the time where it's

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Speaker 5: a very hostile environment for the trans community. I mean

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Speaker 5: it's just twenty twenty five alone, there have been one

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Speaker 5: hundred and nine anti trans bills that have been passed

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Speaker 5: so far in a variety of states and overall, I

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Speaker 5: mean just in the last few years, there's been a

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Speaker 5: total of nine hundred and fourteen that have been on

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Speaker 5: the table, which is a staggering number given what this

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Speaker 5: climate feels like now, and especially with a lot of

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Speaker 5: directives coming from the White House, particularly about stopping the

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Speaker 5: participation of trans.

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Speaker 3: Girls in sports. What does this climate feel like for you?

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Speaker 2: But it feels terrible. It feels it's like you're, you know,

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Speaker 2: living your day to day life.

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Speaker 4: Everything is supposed to be normal right now, but we

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Speaker 4: all know we're kind of living under like Laate stage

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Speaker 4: capitalism and like fascism is We're all like, are we really.

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Speaker 2: In a Handmaid's Tale?

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Speaker 4: But any minute now, but we should be running, but

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Speaker 4: do we have our passports? And like, you know, being

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Speaker 4: on a podcast, working my job every day, but then

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Speaker 4: also having that kind of invisible cloud of that weight

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Speaker 4: that just like sits on you and you don't know

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Speaker 4: why you're anxious sometimes and you kind of have to

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Speaker 4: remind yourself, stayed on gaslight your itself, like, oh, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of shit going on in the world, Like

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Speaker 4: people don't I had a break down, like probably every

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Speaker 4: once in a while.

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Speaker 2: Same way about like being black in America, It's like.

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Speaker 4: You have to have some level of disassociation to like

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Speaker 4: be able to get in your car every time and

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Speaker 4: drive to know like you could be murdered driving down

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Speaker 4: the street by the police.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So in that same way, I feel like I have

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Speaker 4: to I'm fully like embodied as a trans person, and

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Speaker 4: I love that, but at times I have to like

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Speaker 4: box it out and not not believe that, like this

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Speaker 4: is the state of the world we're living in.

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Speaker 2: And so I had just break down another day. It

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Speaker 2: was just like the country I.

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Speaker 4: Live in in the current administration, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: people like they just don't want me to exist. They

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Speaker 4: just don't literally don't want people like me to exist.

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Speaker 4: And to feel that so misseraily like as a black

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Speaker 4: person and as a transperson, it is something familiar.

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Speaker 2: And also something that is weighty. It's like we just stay.

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Speaker 4: With black people, like I just want to live, Like

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Speaker 4: can y'all just stop lynching us, beating.

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Speaker 2: Us, pulling us over, like just let us exist.

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Speaker 4: And I feel that deeply as a transperson is like

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Speaker 4: we're literally just trying to exist and we're actually like

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Speaker 4: a gift to the world, Like we are a gift

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Speaker 4: in so many ways that we help people see that

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Speaker 4: you don't have to subscribe to all of these oppressive

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Speaker 4: gender notions that like you, actually we all have a

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Speaker 4: gender expression. We all have the ability to put on

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Speaker 4: whatever clothes we want every day, to be fluid, to

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Speaker 4: understand we all embody masculinity and femininity. But like we

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Speaker 4: have the audacity to show up in a world right

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Speaker 4: now that doesn't want us here, that wants to erase us,

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Speaker 4: and to still be like, no, I'm fucking here. So

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, Like that's part of

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Speaker 4: what also gets me through the day, is like I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to be silent and shut up. Even I'm

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Speaker 4: finding my balance, I'm still going to be like, now

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Speaker 4: you don't see me, I'm here.

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Speaker 1: So that was JAML Hill talking to Alicia Clardon on politics.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, your friend for allowing me to

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Speaker 1: use that podcast. I think if you are like I am,

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Speaker 1: which I'm very curious about what I don't know so

438
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: that I can have an informed response. I walked away

439
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: from that conversation not necessarily changing my opinion, but understanding

440
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: that I don't know enough to have a real valid opinion.

441
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: And as I started this podcast, I said, I'm often

442
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: on CNN, and they asked me about it as if

443
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: it's definitive, and I can tell you my personal thoughts

444
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: and what I think personally, But the truth of the

445
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: matter is is that I don't know enough to give

446
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: a fully educated opinion, and I don't think many people do.

447
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: I think, to my other friend's point, who's been covering

448
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: this story, for a majority of people, this is a

449
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: way to say we don't mind them, we don't like them,

450
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: they don't belong here. It's another way to exclude a

451
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: class of people that you believe don't deserve the same

452
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: basic humanitarian rights as the rest of the world. And

453
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: if you have a problem with transgender athletes, I'll ask

454
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: you this question. Do you have a problem with LGBTQIA people.

455
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: Do you have a problem with someone who doesn't think

456
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: or act like you? Do you have a problem with

457
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: someone you disagree with how they live their lives? And

458
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: that is a tough question, right No one wants to

459
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: answer that truthfully, No one wants to say that quiet

460
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: part out loud. No one. And I'm hesitating to really

461
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: find the words because in our climate, as mentioned, this

462
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: is a serious issue. This is becoming a topic that

463
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: doesn't really need to be a topic. But because it

464
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: grabs people's attentions, it makes people feel as if there

465
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: is something being taken from them and or their children.

466
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: It makes other people feel like the world is going

467
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: to hell in a handbasket what is going on? And

468
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: people are generally up in arms for what they believe

469
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: is a change in our society that they don't want

470
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: to see. Listen, believe how you believe, think what you

471
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: want to think, have your own opinion. You are entitled

472
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: to that. I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm just

473
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: doing my job and I'm just giving you this information.

474
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: I hope in the conversation that you heard with a issue,

475
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: you felt like she was able to give you an

476
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: example of what she has to deal with on the

477
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: other side of this. And for me, I walked away thinking,

478
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, everybody deserves dignity and respect.

479
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I hate when people

480
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: mistreat me, whether it be because they think I'm not

481
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: a good person, or whether it be because they don't

482
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: like the fact that I am a black woman or

483
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: a woman in general. I do not want to be

484
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: mistreated by something I cannot help. And there lies the rub.

485
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: You would let me throw a few questions out, because

486
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: I don't know as a teenager to go to your

487
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: parents and say I am not comfortable in my body.

488
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: I don't believe I was meant to be a boy,

489
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: or I don't believe I was meant to be a girl.

490
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: And then you take this radical, bold choice to say

491
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: I want to be identified as something different, knowing that

492
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: you will be vilified, bullied, and or perhaps lose your life,

493
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: depending on whatever the circumstances are and where you are

494
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: in this world. That is a life threatening decision that

495
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: you are making. And heaven forbid, someone so young, whose

496
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: brain isn't even fully developed, they have to make that

497
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: decision because they don't feel right. From my understanding the

498
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: research that I've read, if someone is deciding to do this,

499
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: it's because it's not for fun. It's not it's not

500
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: because it is trendy. It is because what they truly feel.

501
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: Knowing there are so many repercussions that come from that

502
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: making that choice, making a choice to say that I

503
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: want to be transgender, you would have to think if

504
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: you have any compassion, whether you agree or disagree with

505
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: that decision, you wouldn't vilify a child. Fine, You could

506
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: be mad at their parents, that's okay, fine. You could

507
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: be mad at the school system that said Abe Hernandez

508
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: can compete. But I really really walked away thinking where

509
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: is the humanity for people who are trying to find

510
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: a place in society to exist? And I'm talking to myself,

511
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you, I'm talking to everybody. And while

512
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: I haven't fully formed an opinion, I know what I believe,

513
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: I know what I have said said. I know that

514
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: I do agree with my girlfriend who has two kids,

515
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: and she says that they are playing at a very

516
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: high level, and she knows how good they are and

517
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: what they sacrifice and what they do as competitors. One

518
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: is in high school, the other is in middle school,

519
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: and they are extremely talented athletes, and she knows how

520
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: it feels when they lose a game against other girls

521
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: who are better than them, and she understands the competition

522
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: and how the positions and the slots are so far

523
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: few between as you get hire and hire and hire.

524
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 1: She's talking about just competing at a high level, and

525
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: in her mind, a transgender athlete competing against her daughter.

526
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: If that were the case and her daughter lost, she

527
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: would think it was an unfair fight, and people genuinely

528
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: can keep it about sports. They really can. But I don't.

529
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think most people are like

530
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: something taboo to talk about. I know for a fact,

531
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: if I have this conversation, people get uncomfortable. You might

532
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: be listening to this right now getting uncomfortable. I know

533
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: other colleagues of mine don't like to talk about it

534
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: because they don't want to be canceled because they may

535
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: say something wrong on either side. Even while recording this

536
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: podcast with my producer Drayne, I said, oh my god,

537
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: I said it wrong.

538
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: Go back, do that.

539
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: I didn't say that right, Do it again. We're going

540
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: to take a quick break because we have to pay

541
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: some bills. We'll be right back in just a few moments,

542
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: but I want to leave you all with this. I

543
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: listened to ab Hernandez talk about what it meant to compete,

544
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: talk about the upcoming competition, and then also talk about

545
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: the response that ab Hernandez received from the community. Good

546
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: in that take a listen.

547
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 8: She spoke to Aby Hernandez before today's event, and she

548
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 8: tells me that she is giving it all she can

549
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 8: because her focus right now is the sport, and she's

550
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 8: ignoring all the criticism that is surrounding her because again,

551
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 8: she wants to make sure that she's giving it her

552
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 8: very best out on the field. Also, we spoke to

553
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 8: her mother, Nadea, who tells me she is Aby's biggest

554
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 8: supporter throughout this entire journey, which involves sacrifice, training, celebration,

555
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 8: and also hate. She says, it's hate from all those

556
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 8: people that oppose a trans athlete from participating in a

557
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 8: girl's competition.

558
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 9: It's nervous right now, you know, State finals back here again,

559
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 9: just like trying.

560
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: Not to get in my head and just relax. But

561
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: it's a little harder.

562
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 6: This year.

563
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 10: Aby Hernandez opening up for the first time about her

564
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 10: ongoing participation as a trans athlete in a high school girls'

565
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 10: sports competition. It's generated strong criticism, including from President Trump,

566
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 10: who threatened to cut state funding if they quote illegally

567
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 10: allow men to play in women's sports. This was the

568
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 10: girl's triple jump varsity competition on Friday, held at Buchanan

569
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 10: High School in Clovis, where Hernandez took the top spot.

570
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 10: A few hours earlier, the high school teenager competed in

571
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 10: the girl's high jump and long jump Varsity, where she

572
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 10: also ranked first place and qualified her to Saturday's events.

573
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 6: When you see how happy this kid is being herself,

574
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 6: you know, the first time I saw her come out

575
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 6: dressed as a girl, that she didn't have to hide

576
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 6: it from me.

577
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: I saw it in.

578
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 6: Her face, so I was like, this is it, this

579
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 6: is what she wants. I'm going to support it.

580
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 9: Behind AB's every move is her mother, Naeida, who has

581
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 9: been watching from the crowd and protecting her sixteen year

582
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 9: old daughter from nearby protesters, both on the ground and

583
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 9: in the sky.

584
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 6: I'm not losing my child because of my stubbornness and

585
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 6: for me being close minded, like I rather a race.

586
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 6: Are times together, even if it's been this difficult, then

587
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 6: going to a cemetery and crying because I couldn't accept something.

588
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: So in conclusion, having this uncomfortable conversation, I don't have

589
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: any answers, and I hate. I hate that that's the

590
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: first thing. But what I also hate is that people

591
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: feel like they need to have an answer about a

592
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: very very complicated topic for some people. For some people

593
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: it's black and white. No means no, yes means yes.

594
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: For others it's complicated. It's complicated because for me anyway,

595
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: I know, I'm speaking from a sports perspective. I'm not

596
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: speaking from a perspective of I don't want that person

597
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: to be included in activities or that child to be

598
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: included in activities. I'm speaking from a sports perspective thinking.

599
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 3: Is that fair?

600
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: Now?

601
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: Remember as an Olympian, and there are rules, there are tests,

602
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: their guidelines, the science is there to at least attempt

603
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: to prevent the unfair equation in terms of competition. They

604
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: do it again again on the collegiate level, at least

605
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: to make an attempt to say the science has been done.

606
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: This athlete can compete. They do not have a physical advantage.

607
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: But I also believe, much like everything in this society,

608
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: ten years from now, someone will say the science was wrong.

609
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: Twenty years from now, someone will say the science was wrong,

610
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: there was an advantage or there was never even an

611
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: issue with advantage of giving them a fair fight or not.

612
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they're telling us, you know, years later,

613
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: we are not supposed to, you know, eat gluten, And

614
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, gluten, Yeah, gluten.

615
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: I don't know.

616
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: Everybody was in gluten. Do you remember a time when

617
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: gluten free was even a thing. No, I'm otied to

618
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: remember gluten free was not even a thing. The science

619
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: now it says gluten is an issue. Your body now

620
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: says gluten issue. And I'm making light of an issue.

621
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: But I am talking about well that we live in

622
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: where we are constantly learning, and we are constantly trying

623
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: to get better, and we are constantly doing research, and

624
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: we're learning about what is out there in society. And

625
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: that's where I'll hang my hat in terms of what

626
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: I do and don't know. But I don't have a

627
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: straight answer for you. I really don't. And I would

628
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: encourage anyone, anyone if you believe firmly in what you believe.

629
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: If you don't think transferred definite should be competing, great,

630
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: that's what you believe, leave it there. If you think

631
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: they should compete, great, leave it there. But there is

632
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: a group of people who truly live like I live,

633
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: and think I don't know enough. I know, I feel,

634
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: but I definitely don't know enough. So I leave you

635
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: with this. I saw this on Mel Robbins the other day.

636
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: You guys like Mel Robins. I'm name dropping a lot

637
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: of other podcasts, but I do like listening to her,

638
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: and she says the most simple things, right, the most

639
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: simple and basic things, but sometimes we forget it. She goes,

640
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: you know who's going through a hard time right now?

641
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: And then it pause. Everybody. Everybody is going through something

642
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: right now. And I try to remember that when I

643
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: talk about these very uncomfortable conversations that force you to

644
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: pick aside some In many ways, it forces you to

645
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: pick aside. And isn't it okay just to be like

646
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: I don't have my thoughts fully formed yet. I can

647
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: give you an opinion, but my thoughts are fully formed. However,

648
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: I do believe we all deserve to be treated with kindness.

649
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: We all deserve to be treated with fairness. We all

650
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: deserve to have our humanity acknowledged. I'm Carrie Champion, and

651
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: I approve this message. Naked Sports written and executive produced

652
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: by me Kerry Champion, Produced by Jacquees Thomas, Sound designed

653
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part

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Speaker 1: of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia