WEBVTT - Can the Plant Microbiome Revolutionize Farming? 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:25.236 Pushkin. Let's talk about fertilizer. If fertilizer disappeared from the 0:00:25.276 --> 0:00:28.116 world tomorrow, we wouldn't be able to grow enough food 0:00:28.516 --> 0:00:33.476 and billions of people would die. The key ingredient infertilizer 0:00:33.636 --> 0:00:37.716 is nitrogen, the most abundant element in the atmosphere. It's 0:00:37.756 --> 0:00:40.516 in every breath we breathe, but plants can't get it 0:00:40.556 --> 0:00:43.636 straight from the air. In the early twentieth century, people 0:00:43.676 --> 0:00:46.236 figured out how to get nitrogen out of the air 0:00:46.276 --> 0:00:49.716 and into ammonia, a solid form that plants can use. 0:00:50.156 --> 0:00:53.556 It's called the haber Bosch process. Was an amazing breakthrough, 0:00:53.596 --> 0:00:56.956 one of the key innovations of the twentieth century. But 0:00:57.596 --> 0:01:00.556 getting that nitrogen out of the air and into solid 0:01:00.556 --> 0:01:05.236 fertilizer is wildly energy intensive, a big contributor to climate change. 0:01:05.596 --> 0:01:08.796 The process is also inefficient on the back end. Farmers 0:01:08.836 --> 0:01:11.876 wind up putting tons of nitrogen rich fertilizer on their 0:01:11.916 --> 0:01:16.276 soil that winds up just getting washed away. In other words, 0:01:16.516 --> 0:01:19.356 it's been about one hundred years since the last big 0:01:19.396 --> 0:01:28.916 breakthrough infertilizer, and we could really use another one. I'm 0:01:28.996 --> 0:01:31.476 Jacob Goldstein, and this is What's Your Problem? The show 0:01:31.476 --> 0:01:33.436 where I talk to people who are trying to make 0:01:33.476 --> 0:01:37.836 technological progress. My guest today is Carston Temmy. He's a 0:01:37.876 --> 0:01:41.916 bioengineer and the co founder and chief innovation officer of 0:01:42.116 --> 0:01:47.316 Pivot Bio. Carston's problem is this, can you use modern 0:01:47.396 --> 0:01:51.316 genetic tools in order to get microbes that live in 0:01:51.356 --> 0:01:58.356 the soil to grab more nitrogen for crops? So how 0:01:59.276 --> 0:02:00.876 how did you get into nitrogen? 0:02:02.396 --> 0:02:07.796 Well? I worked on this problem as the core focus 0:02:07.876 --> 0:02:11.916 of my PhD research. Graduate school, I got attracted to 0:02:13.676 --> 0:02:16.596 the West Coast to study a field that was brand new. 0:02:16.636 --> 0:02:20.116 It was called synthetic biology, and the premise was that 0:02:20.196 --> 0:02:24.796 we now know enough from sequencing genomes and from being 0:02:24.796 --> 0:02:27.836 able to apply all of the modern discoveries of the 0:02:30.996 --> 0:02:35.556 technology discovered by Silicon Valley to think about microbes in 0:02:35.596 --> 0:02:39.076 their DNA as a new type of programming language. We 0:02:39.156 --> 0:02:42.796 could reprogram microbes to do really useful things for humanity, 0:02:43.476 --> 0:02:47.476 maybe make better medications, or to be able to help 0:02:48.116 --> 0:02:51.956 make more sustainable building materials. And for me, one of 0:02:51.956 --> 0:02:55.476 the biggest challenges was right here at the crux of agriculture, 0:02:55.476 --> 0:02:59.996 how do we make better performing fertilizer? And synthetic biology 0:03:00.036 --> 0:03:03.076 offered a brand new set of tools that we might 0:03:03.116 --> 0:03:04.996 be able to go tackle that problem. 0:03:05.676 --> 0:03:08.556 So is it right that your first notion is to 0:03:10.076 --> 0:03:15.316 essentially engineer plants so that they can grab nitrogen directly 0:03:15.356 --> 0:03:17.596 out of the air, sort of a cut out the 0:03:17.636 --> 0:03:19.876 middleman strategy. 0:03:20.596 --> 0:03:28.756 It's been maybe an aspiration of academia of science for 0:03:28.796 --> 0:03:33.836 the last fifty or sixty years really since the first tools, 0:03:33.876 --> 0:03:37.516 the enzymes of genetic engineering, were discovered. It was one 0:03:37.516 --> 0:03:41.316 of the two or three examples cited as a real 0:03:41.356 --> 0:03:43.236 big holy grail for the field. 0:03:43.036 --> 0:03:45.316 Because you could just solve the problem. You wouldn't need 0:03:45.396 --> 0:03:48.836 fertilizer anything, exactly, if we could just literally the nitrogenists 0:03:48.956 --> 0:03:51.636 right there in the air all around the plant, if 0:03:51.716 --> 0:03:55.556 only it could grab it somehow exactly, Let's just put 0:03:55.556 --> 0:03:58.996 the DNA for that enzyme into the plant, and the 0:03:59.116 --> 0:04:00.956 plant can make its own enzyme, it can make its 0:04:00.956 --> 0:04:01.756 own fertilizer. 0:04:02.436 --> 0:04:03.916 VOILA will have solved everything. 0:04:04.316 --> 0:04:07.236 Very appealing, So tell me about your your efforts toward 0:04:07.276 --> 0:04:07.636 that end. 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:15.796 Well for us, these seventy years since the first examples 0:04:15.836 --> 0:04:21.276 of DNA were discovered, the first enzymes from genetic engineering, collectively, 0:04:21.316 --> 0:04:27.316 scientists have reverse engineered how a microbe in its DNA 0:04:27.516 --> 0:04:32.356 that program for making the nitrogen producing enzyme is encoded, 0:04:32.436 --> 0:04:36.236 so they reverse engineered the whole blueprint of that program. 0:04:36.676 --> 0:04:38.956 I just happened to be in graduate school when we 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:42.036 had the chance to complete the final last piece of 0:04:42.076 --> 0:04:45.276 that puzzle, and so we showed you could package up 0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:48.156 all of the genes, all of the DNA in a 0:04:48.156 --> 0:04:52.196 way that could make it transferable to a plant. The 0:04:52.396 --> 0:04:56.996 challenge was that we realized it wasn't the best, most 0:04:56.996 --> 0:05:00.276 efficient way to actually build a product that could change agriculture. 0:05:01.076 --> 0:05:06.196 It was a great example of scientifific discovery, was a 0:05:06.196 --> 0:05:10.436 great example of how to understand the beauty of nature 0:05:10.516 --> 0:05:13.836 around us, and there was actually an easier way. Rather 0:05:13.876 --> 0:05:17.196 than putting the whole program into a plant. We could 0:05:17.276 --> 0:05:20.196 just get microbes to do more of what they're naturally 0:05:20.396 --> 0:05:21.156 capable of doing. 0:05:21.556 --> 0:05:25.196 Was there a moment when you realized that going straight 0:05:25.236 --> 0:05:27.036 to the plant wasn't going to be the best way 0:05:27.076 --> 0:05:27.476 to do it. 0:05:28.836 --> 0:05:34.236 I definitely remember one day early in the days of Pivot, 0:05:34.316 --> 0:05:36.876 where my co founder and I had been working on 0:05:37.556 --> 0:05:40.796 some research for a grant. It had been our initial 0:05:40.836 --> 0:05:42.996 funding for the company came from the bill, and momited 0:05:42.996 --> 0:05:45.956 the Gates Foundation just a very tiny amount of money 0:05:45.956 --> 0:05:50.076 for us to explore the possibility of this blueprint from 0:05:50.076 --> 0:05:53.156 graduate school and turning that into a crop that could 0:05:53.156 --> 0:05:56.916 fix its own nitrogen. And we were having this challenge. 0:05:56.956 --> 0:05:58.676 We said, even if you could take the best of 0:05:58.716 --> 0:06:02.236 those new tools from Crisper and apply them to this challenge, 0:06:02.756 --> 0:06:04.916 it's going to be so many years before we can 0:06:04.956 --> 0:06:08.276 build a crop that can fix its own nitrogen. And 0:06:08.516 --> 0:06:11.276 how do we make this go faster? Because the farmers 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:13.996 around the world need a solution faster. So we were 0:06:13.996 --> 0:06:16.676 walking to the coffee shop and we just stopped in 0:06:16.716 --> 0:06:22.116 the middle of the kind of grassy open space between 0:06:22.116 --> 0:06:23.836 our lab and the coffee shop, and we said, you know, 0:06:23.916 --> 0:06:27.356 let's let's get back to the thing that inspired us most, 0:06:27.396 --> 0:06:31.796 the microbes that have this capability already, and maybe we 0:06:31.876 --> 0:06:34.956 can figure out what stops them from being the solution 0:06:35.076 --> 0:06:39.676 and just attack that as the problems. Let's enable these 0:06:39.716 --> 0:06:41.956 microbes just to do what they're already able to do, 0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:42.876 but do it better. 0:06:43.116 --> 0:06:46.116 So let's talk about the microbes for a minute, just 0:06:46.876 --> 0:06:51.436 how they work in a state of nature. Tell me 0:06:51.476 --> 0:06:54.716 about these microbes like in a world, you know, pre fertilizer, 0:06:54.756 --> 0:06:57.236 non fertilizer, Like, what's going on? Where are they? What 0:06:57.276 --> 0:06:57.796 are they doing? 0:06:58.716 --> 0:07:02.556 Yeah, So, just like you or I have a microbiome 0:07:02.596 --> 0:07:05.476 when we hear about it related to digestive health a lot, 0:07:05.516 --> 0:07:09.076 and we can take probiotics, a plant has a micro 0:07:09.236 --> 0:07:12.596 biome in its root system as well. And the plant 0:07:12.676 --> 0:07:16.276 is part of photosynthesis, is taking some of that sugar 0:07:16.316 --> 0:07:18.716 that it produces and it actually exudes it out of 0:07:18.716 --> 0:07:21.156 the roots to feed the microbes in the soil, and 0:07:21.196 --> 0:07:23.636 in exchange, the microbes are supposed to be doing useful 0:07:23.636 --> 0:07:29.516 things like making nitrogen, or producing anti fungal compounds, or 0:07:29.556 --> 0:07:33.076 helping go acquire some of the other nutrients that are 0:07:33.116 --> 0:07:35.436 typically found in the rock. But the microbes can help 0:07:35.556 --> 0:07:39.156 make some acids that degrade those amazing. So they're an 0:07:39.156 --> 0:07:42.996 extension of the plant and its ability to survive all 0:07:43.116 --> 0:07:46.556 the different types of challenges and stresses it faces while 0:07:46.556 --> 0:07:47.116 it's growing. 0:07:47.836 --> 0:07:52.436 And this particular microbe or probably more than one, but whatever, 0:07:52.516 --> 0:07:56.956 this particular microbe or set of microbes that are you say, 0:07:56.996 --> 0:08:00.836 fixing nitrogen for the plants. Like, what are they? What's 0:08:00.876 --> 0:08:03.596 their deal? What do they want out of life? 0:08:03.716 --> 0:08:07.516 That's the most important thing that the microbiome of the 0:08:07.516 --> 0:08:11.716 crop is responsible for is is fixing nitrogen, so turning 0:08:11.796 --> 0:08:15.436 nitrogen gas into ammonia and an exchange for sugar from 0:08:15.476 --> 0:08:18.876 the plant. They're food source. They're doing something in return. 0:08:18.916 --> 0:08:21.636 So it's a nice symbiosis that exists between the plant 0:08:21.636 --> 0:08:25.516 and the microbes. And when we fertilize the soil, those 0:08:25.596 --> 0:08:28.916 microbes aren't shielded from all that nitrogen that enters the soil, 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:33.036 and they sense the nitrogen in the soil and they 0:08:33.036 --> 0:08:35.596 can serve their energy. They stop making the enzymes that 0:08:35.636 --> 0:08:39.196 fix nitrogen. They don't give the plant any ammonia, and 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:43.076 they just consume the sugars that the plant exudes for free. 0:08:42.716 --> 0:08:46.916 Because they have some whatever, some sense of equilibrium that says, oh, 0:08:46.956 --> 0:08:49.916 there's enough, there's enough nitrogen in the soil. I'm going 0:08:49.996 --> 0:08:52.236 to stop doing that now, that's right. That's right. And 0:08:52.716 --> 0:08:55.716 in sort of a state of nature, that's fine because 0:08:55.756 --> 0:08:58.756 whatever corn doesn't need to grow seven feet tall in 0:08:58.796 --> 0:09:01.276 a month or whatever it does in Iowa now, and 0:09:01.316 --> 0:09:03.036 it's fine and it's no problem. But in the world 0:09:03.116 --> 0:09:06.836 we live in, that's the fundamental problem is, well, those 0:09:06.916 --> 0:09:10.636 microbes don't fix enough nitrogen to grow the super sized 0:09:10.636 --> 0:09:12.076 crops we need to grow. 0:09:11.916 --> 0:09:15.036 Now, that's right. So crops go through growth sprits just 0:09:15.076 --> 0:09:18.396 like we do when we're growing up, and as the 0:09:18.476 --> 0:09:21.076 crop enters the kind of the middle part of its 0:09:21.116 --> 0:09:24.436 life cycle, it needs to grow very rapidly before it 0:09:24.436 --> 0:09:28.796 starts making the grain. And that's where the disconnect comes from. 0:09:29.076 --> 0:09:34.196 The mineralization rate, the rate of just background nitrogen availability 0:09:34.196 --> 0:09:36.396 from the soil can't keep up with that growth spurt. 0:09:36.796 --> 0:09:39.996 That's why we need fertilizer today because we've bread crops 0:09:40.036 --> 0:09:41.956 to be just so productive. 0:09:42.636 --> 0:09:46.636 So okay, So you have this idea, it's an elegant idea, 0:09:46.676 --> 0:09:51.796 it's an exciting idea. Do you choose as you're trying 0:09:51.836 --> 0:09:54.156 to make it work, Like, do you choose a particular 0:09:54.316 --> 0:09:56.516 microbe and say this is the one we're going with, Like, 0:09:56.556 --> 0:09:59.316 what is the process of actually making it work well? 0:09:59.356 --> 0:10:02.956 So we started Pivot in the fall of twenty eleven. 0:10:03.156 --> 0:10:04.956 We started the company and some of the first things 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:09.396 we did is we wrote letters to different farmers around 0:10:09.436 --> 0:10:13.556 the Midwest, friends and family, anybody who owned land, and 0:10:13.556 --> 0:10:16.236 we said, hey, send us just a bucket of soil, 0:10:16.916 --> 0:10:19.836 and we want to use that to discover microbes that 0:10:19.836 --> 0:10:23.076 can change agriculture, and so we'd pay everybody for a 0:10:23.076 --> 0:10:26.876 bucket of soil, and then we'd start growing little baby 0:10:27.356 --> 0:10:31.436 corn plants seedlings or wheat plants in that soil, and 0:10:31.716 --> 0:10:35.196 the plants would act like a sponge. They would attract 0:10:35.196 --> 0:10:37.876 the microbes that are really important to be part of 0:10:37.916 --> 0:10:40.556 their microbiome. And so when you take a seedling and 0:10:40.596 --> 0:10:43.596 you uproot it, you can then take and the dirt 0:10:43.596 --> 0:10:45.596 off of the roots kind of get the microbes that 0:10:45.636 --> 0:10:48.876 live on the roots of that crop. And it becomes 0:10:49.276 --> 0:10:53.476 a great way to take the billions of different microbes 0:10:53.476 --> 0:10:55.636 that are in the soil and find just the ones 0:10:55.676 --> 0:10:58.556 that have a very close symbiosis with the crop. 0:10:59.116 --> 0:11:00.796 And so what do you find when you do that. 0:11:01.356 --> 0:11:05.796 Well, there's always a lot of great microbes. Some do 0:11:06.556 --> 0:11:10.156 nitrogen fixation, some do other types of functionality for the crop. 0:11:10.236 --> 0:11:12.796 And so we had to look at the DNA of 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:15.116 all of those microbes and find the ones that have 0:11:15.756 --> 0:11:19.476 the program for making this enzyme for nitrogen fixation. And 0:11:19.516 --> 0:11:21.076 then we had to be able to figure out how 0:11:21.076 --> 0:11:23.996 do you reverse engineer what that DNA says, How does 0:11:23.996 --> 0:11:28.196 it control when that microbe operates the enzyme and from 0:11:28.236 --> 0:11:30.716 that process it gave us the first microbes that really 0:11:30.756 --> 0:11:33.076 could become workable for products. 0:11:33.316 --> 0:11:37.476 And do you end up arriving at one microbe at 0:11:37.476 --> 0:11:40.436 a suite of microbes like where do you land? 0:11:41.196 --> 0:11:44.916 Well, we have dozens of different species of microbes. They're 0:11:44.956 --> 0:11:49.076 all kind of distantly related that we work with today. 0:11:49.396 --> 0:11:52.156 But in our products, our very first product that launched 0:11:52.156 --> 0:11:56.196 in twenty nineteen, it had just one species of microbe 0:11:57.116 --> 0:12:00.276 and it's actually something that in our second version of 0:12:00.276 --> 0:12:03.756 the product, it's become two microbes, So two different species 0:12:03.756 --> 0:12:06.996 that work together. They eat different sugars provided by the plant, 0:12:07.036 --> 0:12:09.236 and they live in a little bit different parts to 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.636 the root system, so they work together as a team 0:12:11.716 --> 0:12:13.876 to produce even more nitrogen for the crop. 0:12:14.036 --> 0:12:16.316 And that first one is it for corn? Is that right? 0:12:17.676 --> 0:12:21.196 It's part of our product for corn, and it's also 0:12:21.276 --> 0:12:25.356 part of our second product that we launched that that 0:12:25.436 --> 0:12:28.236 works on wheat. On the label you can use it 0:12:28.276 --> 0:12:34.556 on sorghum, on millet, and oats, barley, sunflowers even so, 0:12:35.276 --> 0:12:39.116 really something that associates with a range of different cereal 0:12:39.156 --> 0:12:41.676 crops and it has a different, a little bit different 0:12:41.676 --> 0:12:43.156 relationship with each of those crops. 0:12:44.236 --> 0:12:47.756 So okay, So you find these few microbes that seem like, yeah, 0:12:47.756 --> 0:12:52.156 these are the ones, but you need to you need 0:12:52.196 --> 0:12:54.836 to change them, right. The problem is that in their 0:12:54.956 --> 0:12:59.196 natural state they're not making enough nitrogen. How do you 0:12:59.276 --> 0:13:02.316 get them to act the way you want int act? 0:13:03.196 --> 0:13:05.676 Well, so let's dive in a little bit more on 0:13:05.716 --> 0:13:11.756 that very first product. So one of our earliest team members, 0:13:11.796 --> 0:13:17.316 Sarah Block, she had some farmland in the family that 0:13:17.356 --> 0:13:20.436 we got a pail of soil from one of the 0:13:20.476 --> 0:13:24.116 corn plants we grew had an amazing microbe living in 0:13:24.156 --> 0:13:28.076 its root system. It's a species of microbe called clubs 0:13:28.116 --> 0:13:32.716 Yella varicola, so a distant cousin of the Club's yellow 0:13:32.716 --> 0:13:36.116 pneumona that make us sick, except this one is not virulent. 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:41.356 It is a beneficial microbe for crops, and it has 0:13:41.396 --> 0:13:45.356 the capability to fix nitrogen. The challenge though, is the 0:13:45.396 --> 0:13:49.676 way it's wired. It has a nitrogen sensor that it 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:52.556 makes and it's part of kind of the cell membrane, 0:13:52.636 --> 0:13:58.716 the outer surrounding membrane around this microbe, so that when 0:13:59.076 --> 0:14:02.276 that sensor senses any sort of nitrogen in the environment, 0:14:02.876 --> 0:14:07.196 it stops the DNA from producing the enzyme for nitrogen fixation. 0:14:08.036 --> 0:14:09.676 And so the very first thing we said is how 0:14:09.756 --> 0:14:12.196 do we how do we get the microbe to unlearn 0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:15.956 this process? How can we disrupt that wiring, the genetic wiring, 0:14:16.436 --> 0:14:17.676 and how do we do it in a way that 0:14:17.756 --> 0:14:22.396 doesn't require building a transgenic organism, because we don't want 0:14:22.396 --> 0:14:26.796 to release any crazy GMOs into the environment. And so 0:14:26.876 --> 0:14:30.116 we used the modern tools of gene editing to make 0:14:30.196 --> 0:14:33.636 a very precise break in the DNA so that that 0:14:33.756 --> 0:14:39.156 nitrogen sensor doesn't stop the microbe from producing the nitrogen 0:14:39.196 --> 0:14:41.996 fixing enzyme. And so our approach at pivot is is 0:14:42.036 --> 0:14:45.596 really a concept of saying, we want to simply remodel 0:14:45.996 --> 0:14:50.996 the wiring of the cell so that it can still 0:14:50.996 --> 0:14:53.116 do the same exact things it did before, it just 0:14:53.156 --> 0:14:55.996 might choose to do them under a different set of conditions. 0:14:57.636 --> 0:14:59.996 Now you have a number of products like how does 0:14:59.996 --> 0:15:02.196 it work, what are you selling, who's buying it, and 0:15:02.236 --> 0:15:02.836 how does it work? 0:15:03.436 --> 0:15:06.156 Well, so let's talk about what it means to be 0:15:06.436 --> 0:15:13.556 maybe a modern sophisticated corn farmer across the US Midwest. 0:15:14.676 --> 0:15:18.436 One of the challenges is there are half a dozen 0:15:18.516 --> 0:15:23.196 different types of fertilizer and timings when you might apply fertilizer. 0:15:23.676 --> 0:15:26.996 The first big one you face is should I apply fertilizer, 0:15:27.796 --> 0:15:31.116 specifically anhydrous ammonia in the fall after I just got 0:15:31.116 --> 0:15:34.796 done harvesting my last crop. It's probably one of the 0:15:34.876 --> 0:15:38.556 cheapest forms of nitrogen you could go buy, but you're 0:15:38.596 --> 0:15:40.996 also going to expose it to all of the winter 0:15:41.076 --> 0:15:43.476 snow and all the spring rains, and so a lot 0:15:43.556 --> 0:15:45.396 of it is going to be lost, Maybe up to 0:15:45.436 --> 0:15:47.916 eighty percent of your investment is going to wash away 0:15:47.956 --> 0:15:52.316 before the crop ever gets planted. So there's uncertainty because 0:15:52.396 --> 0:15:53.956 who knows whether it's going to be a wet year, 0:15:53.996 --> 0:15:57.076 a dry year, a hot year, a cold year. And 0:15:57.116 --> 0:16:00.916 that same challenge persists every decision point a farmer makes. 0:16:01.356 --> 0:16:07.156 And they're also completely subject to the crazy volatility of 0:16:07.156 --> 0:16:12.076 the commodity pricing markets. So for anybody paying attention to 0:16:12.156 --> 0:16:15.516 commodity prices, across the last couple of years, the Russian 0:16:15.596 --> 0:16:20.796 invasion of Ukraine and all of the supply chain consternation 0:16:21.036 --> 0:16:26.276 sent fertilizer prices to record levels. So that ripple effect 0:16:26.396 --> 0:16:30.076 means the challenge of managing one of the biggest expenses 0:16:30.116 --> 0:16:34.516 on a farm is not just stressful, but it also 0:16:34.556 --> 0:16:36.516 could be the thing that separates a farm from being 0:16:36.556 --> 0:16:41.076 profitable or being underwater each year. So that's the challenge 0:16:41.756 --> 0:16:44.836 that we're operating in and what we try to do 0:16:44.876 --> 0:16:48.516 at Pivot is design these microbes that it makes everything 0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:52.436 easier and it reduces risk, and it means that what 0:16:52.476 --> 0:16:55.916 we're delivering is not just the best performing nitrogen, the 0:16:55.916 --> 0:16:58.276 best way to get that nitrogen into the crop when 0:16:58.316 --> 0:17:00.996 it needs it during its growth spurt, but it also 0:17:01.276 --> 0:17:06.196 is the most resilient when it comes to the return 0:17:06.236 --> 0:17:11.556 on investment for the farmer, imperviousness to the unpredictable weather, 0:17:12.276 --> 0:17:15.356 and also then the best as a ripple effect for 0:17:15.476 --> 0:17:19.836 the environment for the soil health, the water, no runoff, 0:17:19.876 --> 0:17:21.636 and no greenhouse gas emissions. 0:17:22.196 --> 0:17:28.436 So in more specific terms, like you know, just just 0:17:28.556 --> 0:17:31.716 more narrowly, yeah, what does it do? Like what are 0:17:31.716 --> 0:17:32.676 you selling and what does it do? 0:17:33.436 --> 0:17:36.516 So we've made two forms of our product today. One 0:17:36.556 --> 0:17:39.756 is a liquid and then the other is a dry powder. 0:17:40.516 --> 0:17:44.916 The liquid can get added to tanks on the machinery 0:17:44.916 --> 0:17:48.676 that plants the seeds for that crop, and as the 0:17:49.076 --> 0:17:52.516 planter is going across a field, a little squirt of 0:17:52.556 --> 0:17:55.196 microbes gets added on top of the seed and that 0:17:55.676 --> 0:17:58.756 furrow before the soil gets closed back up. And with 0:17:58.836 --> 0:18:03.476 the other product, before the farmer even takes possession of 0:18:03.516 --> 0:18:07.036 the seed that they're going to plant, are microbes. The 0:18:07.076 --> 0:18:10.356 little dried powder can get it added as a coating 0:18:10.396 --> 0:18:13.236 onto the seed. So then when the seed gets planted, 0:18:13.236 --> 0:18:16.276 our microbes are already present and the first routs that 0:18:16.276 --> 0:18:20.316 that form start forming that symbioso with the microbes. So 0:18:20.356 --> 0:18:23.356 in both cases simplify what it means to use our 0:18:23.356 --> 0:18:26.076 product and just kind of add it into an existing 0:18:26.076 --> 0:18:27.796 step in what it means to manage a farm. 0:18:29.436 --> 0:18:33.196 I want to read you aligned from this University of 0:18:33.196 --> 0:18:37.756 Minnesota study of proven some version of your product. It's 0:18:37.756 --> 0:18:41.716 said proven can have an impact on corn growth, but 0:18:41.876 --> 0:18:44.756 may not reduce the rate of nitrogen required by corn 0:18:44.796 --> 0:18:48.916 across all locations and benefits maybe specific to soil types 0:18:48.956 --> 0:18:54.156 and specific environmental conditions. Is that consistent with what you've found. 0:18:56.356 --> 0:19:01.916 What we've found is is the ability to improve how 0:19:01.956 --> 0:19:06.676 we use fertilizer and to lean on products that pivot 0:19:06.716 --> 0:19:09.116 makes the microbes that fix nitrogen as the new foundation 0:19:09.436 --> 0:19:13.156 for a fertilizer strategy. It really there's there's two big 0:19:13.236 --> 0:19:18.516 challenges that are important. One is these are living microbes. 0:19:18.836 --> 0:19:22.956 They require more TLC to be able to use effectively 0:19:23.036 --> 0:19:26.516 than that big bulky tons of chemical fertilizer that are 0:19:26.516 --> 0:19:29.836 farmers normally going to use. So we need to make 0:19:29.876 --> 0:19:33.356 sure that when our customers are using our products, we're 0:19:33.396 --> 0:19:36.316 keeping those microbes alive so that when they're in the 0:19:36.356 --> 0:19:38.836 soil they're growing in symbiosis with the crop. 0:19:39.236 --> 0:19:43.036 What does TLC mean in that context, Well. 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:45.916 It's something where we want to make sure that when 0:19:45.916 --> 0:19:48.476 we're delivering our microbes, from the time we ship them 0:19:48.556 --> 0:19:51.716 until they get in the soil, the microbes aren't freezing, 0:19:51.756 --> 0:19:53.836 they're not left out in the sun to bake in 0:19:53.916 --> 0:19:55.636 one hundred plus degree weather. 0:19:56.996 --> 0:19:59.836 They're sending a living thing, right, that's not just sending 0:19:59.916 --> 0:20:00.956 a compound. Yeah. 0:20:01.076 --> 0:20:03.316 Interesting, And if it's our liquid product when they get 0:20:03.356 --> 0:20:07.116 put into that tank on the planter, we're not mixing 0:20:07.156 --> 0:20:10.076 in some sort of a anti micro all agent with 0:20:10.156 --> 0:20:11.196 the tank as well. 0:20:11.356 --> 0:20:14.316 Which could totally happen in this kind of totally totally. 0:20:14.476 --> 0:20:18.356 And that that's to be expected in some respects because 0:20:18.396 --> 0:20:22.076 this is a new technology that that we're we're introducing 0:20:22.196 --> 0:20:22.596 so just. 0:20:22.636 --> 0:20:26.116 Execution, just lots of just like nuts and bolts, logistics, 0:20:26.156 --> 0:20:29.596 execution stuff that is that's totally hard. And the environment 0:20:29.636 --> 0:20:31.676 is heterogeneous in a way that is hard. 0:20:32.276 --> 0:20:35.396 That's right. And and then the second thing that's important 0:20:35.636 --> 0:20:40.516 is when when we add fertilizer to a field, there's 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:45.836 a point when additional nitrogen doesn't lead to more crop yield. 0:20:46.156 --> 0:20:49.236 Something else becomes limiting, whether it's the sunlight or a 0:20:49.276 --> 0:20:53.316 different nutrient, or or maybe the total rainfall that that 0:20:53.396 --> 0:20:56.516 crop receives. And so there's there's a point where you 0:20:56.556 --> 0:21:00.556 get diminishing returns on the amount of fertilizer you can add. 0:21:00.756 --> 0:21:03.276 Right now, the challenge is always trying to figure out 0:21:03.276 --> 0:21:07.276 what that best balance is, and that perfect point changes 0:21:07.316 --> 0:21:09.596 every year because of how much fertilizer can it's washed 0:21:09.596 --> 0:21:11.796 away by the rain since the amount of rain is 0:21:11.796 --> 0:21:14.756 different every year. And so the biggest challenge we have 0:21:14.996 --> 0:21:17.636 is trying to figure out how do you get a 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:22.276 farmer to get the best possible experience when they're first 0:21:22.356 --> 0:21:25.636 using our product, to really build up the confidence in 0:21:25.676 --> 0:21:29.316 getting to a better outcome each year, when the most 0:21:29.396 --> 0:21:31.996 variable thing in that whole equation is fertilizer. 0:21:32.596 --> 0:21:35.596 You really want it to work the first time, Like, 0:21:35.676 --> 0:21:37.716 that's a big one for you, right, the first year, 0:21:37.796 --> 0:21:39.276 you really want it to be great. 0:21:39.396 --> 0:21:42.756 Yeah, And so there's a lot of things that can 0:21:42.836 --> 0:21:47.356 separate the perfect amount of nitrogen and the crop from 0:21:47.396 --> 0:21:51.716 turning into a perfect amount of yield, whether it's pest 0:21:51.796 --> 0:21:57.716 pressure or droughts or other types of nutrient limitations. And 0:21:57.756 --> 0:22:00.356 so everything we try to do is to set that 0:22:00.396 --> 0:22:04.196 farmer up to see the healthiest possible crop and put 0:22:04.236 --> 0:22:07.716 them in the best position to realize the potential yield 0:22:07.756 --> 0:22:10.756 of what that crop come pretty use, and do it 0:22:10.756 --> 0:22:13.996 in a way that really can overcome the unpredictability of 0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:15.076 the fertilizer involved. 0:22:15.636 --> 0:22:19.516 So how big is Pivot, Like, how many acres of 0:22:19.676 --> 0:22:24.036 farmland are have your microbes in them? You know? This year? 0:22:24.956 --> 0:22:28.996 Well, so Pivot has been around for a bit more 0:22:29.036 --> 0:22:30.996 than a decade and our products have been in the 0:22:31.036 --> 0:22:35.316 marketplace for just about five years. We've been able to 0:22:35.916 --> 0:22:40.796 deliver nitrogen on more than ten million acres across that time, 0:22:40.876 --> 0:22:45.756 So millions of acres of products being used just this 0:22:45.876 --> 0:22:50.116 year alone. And we're in a spot that our products 0:22:50.156 --> 0:22:53.876 are used on corn crops across the US on wheat 0:22:53.916 --> 0:22:58.676 and sorghum, sunflower, barley, some other small grains, and we're 0:22:58.876 --> 0:23:01.836 in the process of being able to establish an international 0:23:01.836 --> 0:23:05.596 presence in places like Brazil, with an eye towards Canada 0:23:05.636 --> 0:23:06.076 as well. 0:23:06.716 --> 0:23:09.116 Is it right? I mean, the idea at this point 0:23:09.116 --> 0:23:13.676 point is not to replace fertilizer, but to supplement it. 0:23:13.916 --> 0:23:17.516 Today, our microbes are supplying about a quarter of the 0:23:17.596 --> 0:23:22.116 nitrogen that the corn crop needs, Okay, And it's something 0:23:22.156 --> 0:23:25.356 where we have the ability to keep improving our microbes, 0:23:25.356 --> 0:23:28.876 improve their ability to make that enzyme and share the 0:23:28.956 --> 0:23:32.756 ammonia back with the crop, and improve their ability to 0:23:32.796 --> 0:23:35.996 match up perfectly with that life cycle the growth spurts 0:23:36.036 --> 0:23:39.156 in the plant, so we'll see that our products can 0:23:39.196 --> 0:23:42.916 become even a bigger portion of the total nutrient supply 0:23:43.156 --> 0:23:47.036 the crop needs and allow farmers to really start focusing 0:23:47.076 --> 0:23:50.636 on what's the next big challenge that prevents them from 0:23:50.636 --> 0:23:55.356 reaching the full potential yield that's baked into the crop genetics. 0:23:58.436 --> 0:24:01.996 After the break the best and worst things about trying 0:24:01.996 --> 0:24:15.196 to sell a new product to farmers, What are you 0:24:15.276 --> 0:24:17.596 trying to figure out next? Like, what's the lab side 0:24:17.596 --> 0:24:18.996 of your business look like now? 0:24:19.876 --> 0:24:26.196 We've been breeding crops for many, many years, for decades, 0:24:26.196 --> 0:24:29.716