1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Body dies with Joseph Scott More. Since I was a 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: small child, I have attended church. Now, I've been a 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: member of many different denominations, as I'm sure some of 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: you have out there. It's been. To say that it's 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: a journey is probably an understatement. However, in my experience, 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: there was something that was consistent all the way through, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: and that is that I was always taught that on 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: the third Day Christ arose from the grave, and the 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: term that is always applied to that event is the resurrection. 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I think that we could all agree that that's a 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: seminal event in human history. However, today I want to 12 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: apply that term to another individual term that he actually 13 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: went by. And as a matter of fact, many of 14 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: the people from around the world that were in the 15 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: same field as a gentleman were referred to as these 16 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: by these titles. The term is resurrectionists. Isn't that an 17 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: odd term? Does that mean that this individual himself was resurrected? 18 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not what it meant. For this individual 19 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: actually went out and opened graves, and he didn't actually 20 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: resurrect the dead, but he did in fact remove them 21 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: from their eternal resting spots. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and 22 00:01:52,920 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: this is Body Backs. I'm back together with my buddy 23 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: Dave mac and I'm telling you I got to tell 24 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: you my friends. Listen. If it wasn't for Dave, I 25 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: would not be doing this episode because he has been 26 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: really jazzed about this about this topic, because it is 27 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: kind of like Dave day day. You don't really know Dave. 28 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: Dave's bit quirky, you know, which is cool. You know. 29 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: That's that's why I. 30 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: Digg Kirky's a nice way of saying somebody's really weird. 31 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's it's fantastic. Actually, you are a 32 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: typical Dave. That's why we love you man. There's never 33 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: a boring moment with you. And this, these cases that 34 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today are kind of right 35 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: in my wheelhouse. I didn't I didn't know that there 36 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 1: would necessarily be an interest in this, per se h. 37 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: But if I'm to use you as my barometer, I'd 38 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: say that there probably is an interest in this. And 39 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: and uh, I'll go ahead and say it. We're we're 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: going to talk a little bit about grave robbing and 41 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: the first you know who I first thought. 42 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 2: Of Frankenstein I did, I did. 43 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: I thought about Marty Feldlin Frankenstein and I found out 44 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: a bit of trope trivia the other day. And I 45 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard this. I'm gonna throw I'm 46 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: gonna throw out a little a little Young Frankenstein, Young 47 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: Frankenstein trivia to you. Uh, thank you? 48 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: Doctor? 49 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: Did you know that? And I know that you're going 50 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: to know this. I just know it that Aerosmith got 51 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: the title for their famous song, the original version, Walked 52 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: this Way, because they all went to Young Frankenstein and 53 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: saw the movie and that scene where where I Gore 54 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: played by Marty Feltman, hands the cane back to Gene Wildern's, 55 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, after he tells him walk this way and 56 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: he has to kind of hunch over and stumble down 57 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: the staircase. But you know, I gore that character in 58 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: the movie. There's interaction between him and Frankenstein, Doctor Frankenstein, Frankenstein. 59 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: There's a grave robbing episode, and of course that's where 60 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: they get the parts for the creature. The creature was 61 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: not Frankenstein. It was Frankenstein's monster originally when the book 62 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: was written by Shelley and so you know, but. 63 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: You're saying did you give me Abby somebody? 64 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so parts is parts man, as they used 65 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: to say. Of course we're talking about robbing graves of 66 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: the how do we say this, the newly buried or 67 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: the fresh dead. 68 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: But it's not for the sake of building Frankenstein's monster. 69 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: It's actually for educational purposes, kind of like Granny's medicinal whiskey. 70 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: You know. 71 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're finding they're actually finding poor people, you know, 72 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: those who are indigent and those who have been you know, 73 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: put to death, although oftentimes I don't know what happens, 74 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: but looking in history that you know, they would were 75 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: going to kill these guys and you can have them 76 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: for science, but they never seem to make it. It's 77 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: like something would happen to the dead on the way. 78 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: I mean, there's weird stuff that used to happen Joe. 79 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, there really are instances. And of course down 80 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: here in the South, I think you know, the where 81 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: the lineage of this, you know, kind of arises from 82 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: is an event that took place back in nineteen eighty 83 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: nine at the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta, Georgia, 84 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: which by the way, is one of the older medical 85 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: colleges in the US, and to give you a little insight, 86 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: it's actually the first location that a hysterectomy was performed, 87 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: which is kind of fascinating, I think because there are 88 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: many members in our audience that have had to undergo 89 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: that procedure. There's been history that has been made there 90 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: over the years. I don't know that what happened in 91 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine was necessarily something they wanted to be 92 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: known for, but yet it happened. Workers were working on 93 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: one of the oldest buildings on campus at the Medical 94 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: College of Georgia in Augusta, and they happened to stumble 95 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: upon a large collection of human remains. Of course, skeletal 96 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: remains is what I'm referring to, and they could see 97 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: even with the unaided eye. It didn't take a forensic 98 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: anthropologist to determine this that these remains had been in 99 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: many cases dismembered or they showed signs of having been dismembered. 100 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: So when you have a skeletal recovery, particularly if you're 101 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: talking about a clandestine grave, one of the things that 102 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: you expect to find is not like, let me see, 103 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: how can I say this? It's not necessarily like a 104 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: grave that you would come across where that would look 105 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: like a Halloween skeleton where everything is intact. You know, 106 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: the elements of skeleton will have come apart and depended 107 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: upon the ground in which it's settling into. There's a 108 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: process that's referred to its turbation, and you don't really 109 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: see it, but the earth actually moves beneath the surface, 110 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: and it's always changing, but the top end kind of 111 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: stays static, and that's the appearance you get, so and 112 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: it can be measured probably in millimeters, and it happens 113 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: over a long period of time. And those slight adjustments 114 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: beneath the surface can of impact burials that can impact 115 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: bodies that are down there, and so things shift around. 116 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: But skeletons don't necessarily are intact, you know, like you 117 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: have something from Halloween that's hanging out in your yard, 118 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: it's not going to look like that. But what they 119 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: were seeing were first off comingled remains, which meant that 120 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: these remains were from a variety of different bodies. The 121 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: bodies were in many instances male and female, and they 122 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: had a great deal of post wartem trauma to the bone, 123 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: and one of the ways people always ask, you know, 124 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: how can you tell that a skeletal remain has been 125 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: traumatized in death when you have no tissue to see 126 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: hemorrhage and that sort of thing. There's a reactive event 127 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: that takes place within the bone that you can actually see, 128 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: you know, even if it's approximates death on the living 129 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: side as opposed to the you know, those events that 130 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: occur after death. But anyway, that's the story for another day. 131 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: But when those workers saw this in nineteen eighty nine, 132 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: you can imagine it was a head scratcher. And going 133 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: back to the dismemberment, Dave, that adds another layer of 134 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: horror to this, right. 135 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: See, you're seeing bones. This is like going through a 136 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: really bad Halloween haunted house, you got it. Yeah, I 137 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: would think they're fake. I would think Joe, you know what, 138 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: Joe and those guys in friends that are messing with us, 139 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. These are all That's what I'd 140 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: be selling people, you know. 141 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, But there's something clinically. I think it's because of 142 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: the location day when, because even these workers have an 143 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: awareness that there's people walking all over this campus and 144 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: I've been to this campus. They're walking all over the 145 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: place in white lab coats and scrubs, and you know 146 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: what they're studying here, They're studying medicine. And when you 147 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: get into this area, you know, I'm really wondering. I'd 148 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: love to be able to interview like some of the 149 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: workers that were there discovered this, you know, the first 150 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: person to lay eyes on this, because you know, for me, 151 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: having interviewed many people that find bodies, which are some 152 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: of the most fascinating stories. You know, how they come 153 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: across bodies, it's always that one person that says, I 154 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: really didn't believe what I was seeing. When I first 155 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: saw it, I thought that, you know, like you said, 156 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: I thought that it was a fake. I thought that 157 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: it was something that was just there to scare people. 158 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: But then I approached and I noticed. You know, they'll 159 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: say things like then the smell hit me, or I 160 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: saw what I could have sworn was blood. Are in 161 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: the case of a bone, they their default position with 162 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: most people that I've encountered that find skeletal remains, Dave, 163 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: you know what they always say, I thought I thought 164 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: it was a deer. I thought it was a dog. 165 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: You know, because I think in the human brain, most 166 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: of us don't want to come to grips with well, 167 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: you know what, man, Every now and then you're going 168 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: to come across a human remain that's exposed out there, 169 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: and and so this is you know, it's quite a 170 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: fascinating dynamic here, Dave. 171 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: I'm just, as you say, fascinated by the people who 172 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: discovered it and what kind of damage it did to 173 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: their psyche. You know, that's not we could actually probably get. 174 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 2: We need to get Bethany Marshall and a couple of 175 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: the other psychs from Nancy Gracie Show and just line 176 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: a couple of these cats up and say what happened 177 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: that day and what have you seen since then? Like 178 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: did you watch, you know, any of the old Halloween 179 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: movies and had skeletons? Do you freak out at that now? 180 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: Because I still haven't quite got past that's the idea 181 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: that we as a people didn't have a way to 182 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: actually study the human body firsthand without breaking the law 183 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: to do it. That's something that just amazes me, Joe, 184 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: And that's what we're doing the show about, because when 185 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 2: Joe sends me this article, okay about this huge find. 186 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: From Atless Obscura is my favorite sources. By the way, 187 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: if you've never read Atlas obscura's pretty fascinating stuff. 188 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the like it's the OSQ of of Medicine 189 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: Obscure Sports Quarterly. But on ESPN a the ohow they 190 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: had bones throwing contest. You know, that's the kind of 191 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: stuff I expect to see when you have a bunch 192 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: of bones that just show up in a building. But 193 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: after you get past all the ideas of why and okay, 194 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: it's a medical building, but still don't the dead deserve 195 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: to be buried, don't they don't they deserve to be 196 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 2: better than this? These are real bones? Is this only 197 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: how we and if they have been used in some 198 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: kind of a medical learning experience, shouldn't they be given 199 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: a nicer send off than just thrown into the bottom 200 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: of a well or a building or you know, just 201 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: tossed away like trash. 202 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think so that that would be the case. 203 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: But you have to understand, here's that word again. This 204 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: is a clandestine event because it was against the law, 205 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: and it had been against the law for forever as 206 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: far as people could remember. And this is something that 207 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: kind of it was the law in Europe not to 208 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: do this. And so when the US was settled, like 209 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot of things, it transferred over and in Georgia 210 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: in particular, you know, they the school in Augusta opened 211 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: like in the mid eighteen twenties. All right, we're really 212 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: pre pre Civil War. We're talking Andrew Jackson era time. 213 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: That's when this thing was established. And Dave, it was 214 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: that law prohibiting people from using human cadavers for dissection 215 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: did not come off the books until the mid eighteen eighties. 216 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: And so you've got doctors that are being trained at 217 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: this location and dude, they've never done a dissection. They've 218 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: never done a dissection on a human remain, and so 219 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: it's it's startling. You know, how how is it that, 220 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, you think about somebody that's called a surgeon 221 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: can actually try to facilitate the healing of somebody without 222 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: actually knowing what the anatomy is. Now you you have 223 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: detailed drawings that have occurred over the year, even years, 224 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: even Da Vinci had rendered, you know, beautiful anatomical drawings 225 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: of human human remains. But it's just the fact that 226 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: you're going to go into this environment, open the environment, 227 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: opened the body up on a living patient. And you 228 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: don't know what you're going to be looking for. Interestingly enough, 229 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: just down the road from Augusta Crawford Long back in 230 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:22,239 Speaker 1: the eighteen forties. He's the first guy that ever used anesthesia. 231 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: He's the guy that first to play. And literally this 232 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: is in like a little tiny town in Georgia. They've 233 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: got the Crawford Long Museum there. I urge anybody that 234 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: they have an opportunity to go and check this place out. 235 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: And he used ether on a guy to remove a tumor. Now, 236 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: ether's very unstable, it's not something we would use today. 237 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: But before that, you know, people had to endure surgery 238 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: without any kind of anesthesia whatsoever. So we're in a 239 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: real there's a real learning curve here. But what physicians 240 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: are medical students knew back then was that they needed 241 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: they needed someone that could facilitate getting bodies for them, 242 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: and they might have to do it by oil lamp, 243 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: a whale oil lamp or a candle to do these 244 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: dissections in the middle of the night, and so that 245 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: they could understand anatomy and listen, I'll tell you this, 246 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: everybody knew what was going on because the medical students 247 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: had all been through the program, the faculty were there. 248 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: It's like the old Monty pythonline, wink, wink, nod, nod, 249 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: A nod is just as good as a wink. Dave. 250 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you something right now that I 251 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever told anyone else. I was 252 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: actually involved when I was at the Medical Examiner's office 253 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: in Atlanta of having to go back and retrieve human 254 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: remains from a former employee. This guy had been dismissed 255 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: from the office and we were missing two human skulls, 256 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: and myself and another investigator showed up at his house 257 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: and said, look, we don't want to involve anybody else 258 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: in this, but we believe that you're in possession of 259 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: two skulls that we had that were unknown individuals that 260 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: we had in boxes that were back in an area 261 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: where we keep box skeletal remains. And sure enough, he 262 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: produced them. Of course, it was under thread of arrest 263 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: and being tried and all those sorts of things, but 264 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: he gave them back to us. This was in days, 265 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: within days of him being fired for other issues. And 266 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: it's not like that sort of thing doesn't happen. As 267 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Dave, if you remember I think 268 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, it was in maybe late twenty two 269 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: or early twenty three. Remember we covered a case out 270 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: of Colorado here on Body Bags about a funeral home 271 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: proprietor in Colorado who had been dissecting Hess was the 272 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: last name. She had been dissecting human remains and selling 273 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: body parts to whoever would buy them. And it was 274 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: a chilling story, you know, because you've got family members 275 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: there that I think are expecting if I remember qrrectly, 276 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: they were expecting cremains, but yet she was taking off 277 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: body parts and selling those body parts to individuals who 278 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, she would sell them internationally as well. 279 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: And we had a couple of different stories about that 280 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: same time. If you remember a couple of years ago, 281 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 2: where we had different members of the funeral director's community 282 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 2: that were not doing away with They were not doing 283 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 2: cremations or they weren't burying. There were bodies just piling 284 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: up in all sorts of areas. And that's a horrible 285 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: thing that takes place even now, But at least then 286 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: the bones were talking about in this particular story today, 287 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: they actually there was a reason for them being there. 288 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: There was a purpose, and there was an entire industry 289 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: built around these medical colleges that it's a shame, it's 290 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 2: a stain. But I don't know who should take responsibility 291 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: for it because with I Joe, I'm thinking as soon 292 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: as you had the first medical school, you had the 293 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: first cadaver we could look at, you had the first 294 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: set of bones, you know, you would have somebody who 295 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: was into the medical fraternity would say, when I die, 296 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: you guys can take a look at what's inside. Cut 297 00:19:59,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: me open. 298 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And the people. 299 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: That sounded really graphic and bad, but I don't mean. 300 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: It that way. No, no, no, this is this is 301 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: body backs. Yeah, I mean that's what we talk about. 302 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: It just seems like they would do that though, right. 303 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you would think so. And there are people 304 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: that donate their bodies to you. You might not know this. 305 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: There are people that actually donate their bodies to the 306 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: body farm at UT. Now you want to talk about 307 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: something that's I guess it's needed, but it's really gruesome 308 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: because you know these bodies will be taken up there 309 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: and use for decay studies. Now you're laying out in 310 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: the or not you, but you know, the people that 311 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: donate their bodies are laid out in an open area 312 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: and exposed to the elements. This does I've actually had 313 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: people contact me to wanting I was like, I don't 314 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: work for ut you know, you need to reach out 315 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: to them, and it's like they're curious about it. You know, 316 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: could this be done? But all the way back in 317 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: prior to the Civil War, there was a gentleman by 318 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: the name of Gradison Harris and he was a slave. 319 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: And here's an interesting little factoid. He was a Gulla person. 320 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: And I know that you've got family members that live 321 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: off of off of Ocracoke. Well, he's a Gulla person, 322 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: which is kind of in the coastal area of South Carolina. 323 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: They speak a very yeah, they speak a very distinctive 324 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: language there. 325 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 2: The dialect that you don't find anywhere else. 326 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: It is, it's very unique. It's kind of like my 327 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: ancestors in South Louisiana. I got a whole portion of 328 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: my family that speaks Cajun fringe and so. But he 329 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: came from that environment. And here's what's really interesting when 330 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: he and I hate saying this about anybody, but when 331 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: he was purchased, he was not purchased by a single 332 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 1: individual day. He was actually purchased by the medical college. 333 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: He was owned, and this is the way it's written. 334 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: He was owned by the faculty, and he developed quite 335 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: the reputation. He became what was known as a resurrectionist. 336 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: Now resurrectionist, it's not like this is an isolated event 337 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: relative to Georgia. Okay, they were everywhere, but he made 338 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: quite the name for himself, and he would appear in 339 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: group photos at graduation for the students. They knew that 340 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: he was the person that could go out and acquire remains. 341 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: He primarily focused on slave burials because no one was 342 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: watching slave graves and there was a huge mortality issue 343 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 1: there where people would die very young, and you know 344 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: cadavers now many times are people that are much older. Well, 345 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: back then, people didn't live to what we now consider 346 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: a ripe old age. Back then, you'd have people that 347 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: would pass way their mid forties and you'd have children 348 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: that would pads a good life. 349 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't midas the old man mid. 350 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: Forties, yeah, mid forties man. And so he would go 351 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: out at the behest of the medical college. And let 352 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: me just give you an idea. Did you know that 353 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: it was illegal to teach a slave or enslaved person 354 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: to read and write, but there was an exception made 355 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: for Gratison because he would have to read the obituaries 356 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: and just lock into that just for a second. So 357 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: he would read the obituaries in the paper so that 358 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 1: he could he could stay up to date on newly 359 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: buried remains, and that at night he would go out. 360 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure that he had assistance that would help him 361 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: dig these freshly buried people up, pop the graves open, 362 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: and the slave population back during that time is not 363 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: going to say anything about it, and they're not going 364 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: to complain because they know what's going to happen to 365 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: them if they do. He would remove these bodies and 366 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: then take them back to the medical school where they 367 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: would under the cover of darkness be dissected in the 368 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: middle of the night when no one else was around, 369 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: and these students are there over this cadaver, attempting to learn, 370 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: and Gratison is probably assisting them with these dissections. Gratison 371 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: is probably having to clean up after them and then 372 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: dispose of the bodies. And so there was just an 373 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: area collective area where it's unclear how they wound up. There. 374 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: Would he because this was in the basement of the building. 375 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: Were they doing the dissections in the basement, you know, 376 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: and then they would just kind of take the cadavers 377 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: and put them in a big pile, and you know, 378 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,719 Speaker 1: over a period of time it would render down. The 379 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: one thing that strikes me here is how would you 380 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: get past the smell? You know? And I know they 381 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: have lime back then and that sort of thing, but lime, 382 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: the presence of lime is not necessarily going to retard 383 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: or knock down that smell of decomposition to the point 384 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: where you're not going to appreciate it at all. You're 385 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: walking by a building and you know, people catch a 386 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: whiff there and they're wondering, you know, what in the 387 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: world is going on? And you know, but everybody that 388 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: was in the know, wink wink, not not knew that 389 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: these dissections were going or taking place down there. And 390 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: so yeah, he became known as a resurrectionist and was 391 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: eventually became a freedman after the Civil War, but continue 392 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: to work at the university for decades afterwards. 393 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 2: And actually about his job is a grave robber. You're 394 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: not going to be able to do that outside of 395 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: working for the school, you know, your occupation unless you 396 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: become a grave bigger, you know. 397 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're you're right, unless you're a grave digger, 398 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, but you're a resurrectionist. Interestingly enough, during reconstruction, 399 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: of course, reconstruction failed, he had moved to across the 400 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: Augusta River actually into South Carolina and became a judge 401 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: in South Carolina. And when reconstruction failed, they had race 402 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: riots and I think it was Hamburg, I can't remember 403 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: the actual name of the town in South Carolina, and 404 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: it got so bad he left and came back to 405 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: the university, and the students actually kind of reminded him 406 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: that he needed to keep his place, his proper place, 407 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: because they saw him trying to ascend into the professional class, 408 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: and so they referred to him as judge for years 409 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: and years after that, you know, just as a reminder, 410 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: this is who you are. You're a resurrectionist and you're 411 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: working for us. So it's kind of an interesting story. 412 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: But Dave, I think, if I remember correctly, this is 413 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: not the only location that this was occurring. 414 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 2: No, but let me before we move on. Yeah, yeah, 415 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 2: you've got a resurrectionist to actually, Okay, if you look 416 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 2: at it from the standpoint of continuing education and learning 417 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: and helping the living through you examining the dead. I 418 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: get all that, but you would think they would have 419 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: a better plan. Okay, once we got the body, you know, 420 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 2: and we've done what we're gonna do, you would think 421 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: somebody there at the college level would have a suggestion 422 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 2: as to what to do with these bones that you 423 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 2: now cannot legally have you should have never had to 424 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: start with. So not one of these educated people had 425 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: any common sense. So the best plan they could come 426 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: up with was, when we're done, we're going to throw 427 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 2: them on the floor in the basement and we'll cover 428 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: them with some lime and dirt and just leave them there. 429 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that something that Yeah? And listen, I lay 430 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: the you know who, I laid the fault fault to 431 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: at this and this is nationwide. I lay the fault 432 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: at the propriety of society and the church because they 433 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: viewed using bodies like this as desecration of the dead, 434 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: and that seems to run contrary to spiritual beliefs actually, 435 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: because if we believe that human body is a vessel, 436 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: and after you've passed on to the other side, then 437 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: what kind of utility does the body have? For you 438 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: at that point in time. And what better utility might 439 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: exist than to learn from the dead and to learn 440 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: from their the anatomical specimens that they could render. How 441 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: many I wonder, Here's here's an interesting question. I wonder 442 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: how many people died. How many people died as a 443 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: direct result of some doctor who had never had any 444 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: kind of anatomical training, and they went in and clipped 445 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: a vessel that if they had and the person bled 446 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: out there was no way to stop the bleeding during 447 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: some kind of surgery. How many of these people died 448 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: as a result of not having any kind of direct 449 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: anatomical training, gross anatomical training. I think that that's a 450 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: worthy question. Yeah, and there's no way to take the 451 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: measure of it. 452 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: Now that you get the guy. Look, don't you have 453 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: a kid that cuts steaks just perfect down at the 454 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: get him and we're going to make him the town 455 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: surgeon because the old one died. He at least knows 456 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: something about cutting beef. Maybe he can help it, you know, right, Well, 457 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: what you're going to do. 458 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know that that's like the origin of 459 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: the barber pole, right, barber's cut hair and they did surgery, 460 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, when you see the red, blue and white 461 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: spinning bark, that was an indication of a surgeon. And 462 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: so they, you know, all things to all people. I guess, 463 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's an interesting I think that 464 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: it's very interesting, you know, kind of following this threat 465 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: through history, how how this evolved as a practice. What's 466 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: amazing is that they still held onto this law in 467 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: the wake of the Civil War, Dave. I've seen pictures 468 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've ever seen them of it. 469 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: There's one in particular, Matthew Brady, that Matthew Brady took 470 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: at a battlefield I think adjacent to a hospital, and 471 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: it was stacks of limbs and these these limbs had 472 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: been amputated, you know, as a result of you know, 473 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: battle injuries that you know, there was no way to 474 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: salvage the leg. And it seems as though that people 475 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: would have been screaming out at this point in time, 476 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: well literally, but screaming out that we need proper training 477 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: for our physicians. Now. Listen. A lot of these guys, 478 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure, became fantastic surgeons that had to work in 479 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: those field hospitals just with you know, a pair of scissors, 480 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: a scalpel, and of course the infamous saw that you 481 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: can see in any of these old medical kits. It's 482 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: one of the most gruesome you'll ever see. And they 483 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: were doing this on many cases with people that had 484 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: no nasty They didn't have ether on board, particularly in 485 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: the South, they didn't have anything to apply anesthesia with. So, 486 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, in the wake of arguably the most terrific 487 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: human tragedy in our country's history, there still they still 488 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: have this prohibitive law that's on the books that didn't 489 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: come off the books until like the eighteen eighties in 490 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: Georgia at least. Now you know up in you know, 491 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: like up in Massachusetts, of laws were a bit more 492 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: liberal up there. So prior to this they had they 493 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: had they had made allowances for this. You know, you 494 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: go to places like Harvard for instance, probably Yale, those 495 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: areas up there, and Penn which interestingly enough is Crawford 496 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: Long actually spent time at Penn University of Pennsylvania. They 497 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: had access to bodies up in those areas and they 498 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: could do these dissections. So I don't know, it's a 499 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: curious thing, you know when I think about it, and 500 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, I take many times I take for granted 501 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: the time I spent in the morgue, you know, dissecting 502 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: all of his bodies for so many years, and looking 503 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: back through time, I think how many of those physicians, 504 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: young physicians or want to be physicians back then, would 505 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: have died just to have an opportunity that I had, 506 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, opening you know, close to seven thousand bodies 507 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: over the course of my career. They would have loved 508 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: to have had access to that. You see all manner 509 00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: of things in the morgue, things that most people, particularly 510 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: years ago, it's not quite as morbid as it used 511 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: to be. Probably. I worked with a guy for a 512 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: number of years that was also an autopsy assistant. He 513 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: had been there for years and years, and he had 514 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: a collection that he kept on a shelf in a 515 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: glass mason jar. As a matter of fact, he had 516 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: several of these jars, and when you looked at him, 517 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: when you looked at him, they looked like large marbles. 518 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: Some were small marbles, but they're all black or green 519 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: in color. And then for those that didn't know what 520 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: they were, they would approach it would catch the eye 521 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: as they'd walk up to the shelf, and they would 522 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: look and they discovered after, of course, with a grin, 523 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: he explained to them those are gallstones. And every autopsy 524 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: that he performed where he found a gallstone in dwelling 525 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: the gallbladder, he would retrieve it, wash it, and keep it. 526 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: It always fascinated me, this idea of retaining things I've 527 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: been in. I think probably the thing that used to 528 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: unnerve me the most. It was an anatomy lab that 529 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: I visited as an undergraduate, and I'd go in there 530 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: regularly and there were babies and glass jars that went 531 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: back decades and decades and decades, and there was something 532 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: about that that just sent a chill up my spine. 533 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: But we have to understand that specimens many times reveal 534 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: things that might not otherwise be revealed. They therein rest 535 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:01,479 Speaker 1: scientific truth, and sometimes the truth can be actually quite horrific. David, 536 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: You know, somebody gets a body, and it doesn't matter 537 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: if you had the backing of the school or not, 538 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,479 Speaker 1: or if you're some person that kills somebody nowadays and decides, well, yeah, 539 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: let me say, let me get out the jigsaw, right. 540 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: You know, what are you going to do with the body? Now? 541 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: What are you going to do? Where? Where? Is it 542 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: that you're going to take a body and dump it 543 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: somewhere where no one is going to find it. But 544 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, to uh Chris's credit, they 545 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: didn't find it for a while. I mean, you know 546 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: they it was years later, you know, after all this 547 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: had passed and they've got the limb pit, which they've 548 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 1: also I saw it also described I think as a well, 549 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure, and yeah, the well of souls, 550 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm thinking lost raders, lost arc But 551 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: you know, you think about that, you think, what are 552 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: you going to what are you going to do with 553 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: the body? This bloody mess that has been torn too 554 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: and literally they are torn a bit. You you ought 555 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: to see a medical cadaver after the kids are done 556 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: with it after a year, and it is after a year. Yeah, yeah, 557 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: they might have it. It depended upon the curriculum. They 558 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: might have it beginning in the fall and it will 559 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: go all the way through spring term, or it could 560 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: just be a single term and you're going to have 561 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: multiple kids on one body. It's not like every kid 562 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: gets a body. 563 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: In medical you see the worst kid in the classes 564 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 2: in the very back and he's getting that foot he's 565 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 2: the last guy in the class with the foot and 566 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: he gets it and it's like hundred and sixty eight 567 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 2: bones in the foot. I got four. Excuse me, which 568 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 2: one is the pinky doe? 569 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: No, no, no, they're they're they're doing the dissection and 570 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: concert with one another. And that's that's one of the 571 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: things that you learn in medical school. You're kind of helping, 572 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: you know, helping one another along through in you know, 573 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: gross anatomy is one of those gateway classes too that 574 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: you take. It's the first class to take in medical school, 575 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: and so it's but it is fascinating, you know, those 576 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: bodies that are anatomical specimens like that, they are properly 577 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: disposed of. They generally go back to their point of 578 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: origin and then they are either returned to the families, 579 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: or they have a burial area that is already preconceived 580 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: at that point time, or the bodies are cremated. But 581 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: not in this case in Virginia, Dave. 582 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: I was looking at when they found the limp. It yeah, 583 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: and it cleared it out. Below it was another capped Well, 584 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 2: they didn't uncap that one. They just let us sit. 585 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 2: So you and I want to go up and have 586 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 2: some fun and scare some kids and. 587 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: May nowhere to go jas. I'll pass, I'll pass. I 588 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: have no interest in going there whatsoever. Richmond, I'm sure 589 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: as a fine city, but particularly on that little tour 590 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: let a little jaunt, I have no interest in doing it. 591 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: But you know, it's interesting. I think that a lot 592 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: of this physicians, and we have to understand this in 593 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: an academic setting. Academics are many times are intellectual vagabonds. 594 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: They travel all over the place, and it's no different 595 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: in the medical community. You think about doctors, physicians that 596 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: are out there practicing day to day, but you know, 597 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: there has to be somebody that educates the physicians, and 598 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: generally they are physicians. And you'll have other people with 599 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: PhDs that are there, you know, teaching pharmacology. You have 600 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: PhD anatomist that are there as well. But for the 601 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: most part, you've got doctors that are crisscrossing the country 602 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: taking different academic positions. They just don't want to practice 603 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: medicine and traditional sense, they want to teach others. And 604 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: so with that said, this knowledge of these resurrectionists would 605 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: travel everywhere. So everywhere that you had a medical school, 606 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: there was probably some form of resurrectionists that was there, 607 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: and there were always be these stories that would come 608 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: along with it. You know, the new faculty member would 609 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: be there, Oh where'd you come from? Well, this guy's 610 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: at Harvard now and he had been he had been 611 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: trained at Medical College of Georgia. And he says, yeah, 612 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,479 Speaker 1: I was trained the Medical College of Georgia. And people 613 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: are leaning in and saying, wait, didn't you guys have 614 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: this like really wild, you know, really wild resurrection is 615 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: down there? Oh? Yeah, man, we had all the bodies 616 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: we could take at one time. We did the dissections. 617 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: Boy did I ever learn anatomy? Well, how do we 618 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: get our hands on this? And what do we have 619 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: to do? Well that knowledge travels, doesn't it, Dave? And 620 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: you know. The peace to this is this kind of 621 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: unique situation at Harvard, which is arguably, if not the oldest, 622 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: one of the oldest institutions in the United States. And 623 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: they have forever and ever a men had a medical 624 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: school at that location, and they had a similar finding 625 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: up there, didn't they They were they covered a little same thing. 626 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 2: It didn't even shock By the time I got to Harvard. 627 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 2: It just was like, you know, you're numb to it, yeah, 628 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 2: because this one. But this here's the weird part about Harvard. 629 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: They have like a it'd be even time to go 630 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: into all of what Harvard has, but they have like 631 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,760 Speaker 2: a special name, you know that they give their little 632 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 2: club back in the day. Because where the other guys use, 633 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 2: you know, a former slaver, a janitor, Harvard actually has 634 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 2: a little team and they have certain rules that apply 635 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 2: to them when they're going into you know, they actually 636 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 2: the actually have the rules for when they go in 637 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 2: to steal a body, you know, and they're going to 638 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 2: do grave robbing, and they make fun and great the 639 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 2: others who don't do it as good as them, and 640 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 2: they mock them. And it became a whole thing at 641 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 2: Harvard among these students to form a club to become 642 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 2: really good grave robbers. And I'm not knocking Harvard by 643 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 2: any stretch of the imagination. It's just it's so funny 644 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 2: they could take something there that in every other school 645 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 2: they kind of winking an odd as you said earlier, 646 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 2: and try to avoid and they're they're like broadcast. They 647 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: probably have a newsletter going out every other month, you know, 648 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: and there were recent meetings, but they found a place 649 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 2: it was at the Harvard's Holding Chapel. This one pops 650 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 2: up in nineteen ninety nine and a worker is operating 651 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 2: a mini dozer. All I can tell you can you 652 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 2: imagine this guy. Yeah, he's recently recovered alcoholic, he's sixty 653 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 2: days sober. He's moving the little mini dozer and hit something. 654 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 2: It's like, what is that? And he moves up a 655 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,280 Speaker 2: little closer, and all of a sudden, the bones are coming. 656 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: I know, holy smokes. Yeah, yeah, show me the way 657 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: to go home at that point, you know, because I 658 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: got to tell you I'm heading down to the local pub. 659 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: But even for me, because you know, you think about 660 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: and these are average people, right, you know, with average lives. 661 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: They're moving dirt and then all of a sudden, this 662 00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: guy recovers these remains that are Look, when a forensic 663 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: anthropologist gets their hands on this, just like they did 664 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: at Georgia Medical College, they know that these are not 665 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: recent burials because there is a certain patina which is 666 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: kind of that coloration and time markers that have been 667 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: left behind on the bone just by virtue of the 668 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: fact of their exposure and not being treated. You know, 669 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: they're not these remains are not what are referred to 670 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,360 Speaker 1: as casketed remains. They're not protected. Not that casketed remains 671 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 1: are completely protected, but the difference between being in a 672 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: box that's inside of a vault, that's in the ground 673 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,359 Speaker 1: and has a lid on it is there's a world 674 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: of difference between that and finding remains that are essentially 675 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: just kind of buried beneath the surface, are hidden or 676 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: obscured in this manner. The fact that he found anything 677 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 1: is quite amazing, because you know, you can go to 678 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: the sites of major battlefields where you know, a couple 679 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: of hundred years ago, you're not in the dead were left. 680 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: You're not gonna necessarily find any kind of skeletor it makes. 681 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: You might find a metal button or a buckle or 682 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: something like that. You're generally not gonna find bone charts 683 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: that are left behind unless you really really look. This 684 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,240 Speaker 1: guy is driving a skid steer and he comes across 685 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: I guess it's like a skid steer, and he comes 686 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: across these remains, Dave. 687 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 2: And the thing is is that I was noticing, you know, 688 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,479 Speaker 2: when we were looking at the other stories, and which 689 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 2: kind of gives you an idea because these we're talking 690 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 2: about it from eight nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety 691 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 2: nine when these three different things took place. Georgia in 692 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,439 Speaker 2: eighty nine, you had Virginia in ninety four, five years later, 693 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 2: and then here we go ninety nine at Harvard. At 694 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 2: Harvard the third place to find cash of bones, and 695 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 2: instead of getting them out, studying them and doing you know, 696 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 2: anything like that, they basically looked at it and went, yeah, 697 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 2: we knew they were there somewhere. Go ahead, and let's 698 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 2: just let's move this. Go ahead and put the dirt 699 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 2: back over there, and let's dig someplace else. Meanwhile, right 700 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 2: at the other clay, in nineteen ninety eight, the bones 701 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: from the Medical College of Georgia were reinterred in a 702 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 2: mass grave. 703 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 704 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did what I thought we should do. Look, 705 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 2: I can joke around about stuff, but at the end, 706 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 2: there's got to be something here. And that showed me 707 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 2: a little respect. 708 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah it did. And you know, interestingly enough that that 709 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: grave in which they buried those people, they have no 710 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: idea who they are, and they you know, they put 711 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, we we started off talking about the resurrection, 712 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: and it's fitting that, you know, we kind of draw 713 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,479 Speaker 1: the curtain here that there's you know, a forward term 714 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: that they put there known but to god, you know 715 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: that that gives you an idea, you know, of the 716 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: number of remains that they found which were significant and 717 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: they were all commingled. And after the forensic anthropologists who 718 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: I actually met at one point in time, that was 719 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: a state anthropologist at the time that was called in 720 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: on this case after her examinations were done, and she 721 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: became quite famous as a result of this case because 722 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: she wrote several academic papers based upon It's one of 723 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: those things as a practitioner, as a forensic anthropologist. I 724 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 1: don't want to be too flippid about this, but it's 725 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: one of those things that as a professional, it's a 726 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: once in a lifetime event. You're not going to find 727 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: like a cachet of bones somewhere. It's generally going to 728 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: be like a single bone. They're going in there and 729 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: they're finding huge collection of elements of skeletons, and this 730 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: is like, you could do research on this for years 731 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: and years and years to come from all kinds of 732 00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: different perspectives. But back to what came of Grandison. When 733 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: Grandison died and he did in fact pass away way 734 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: back in nineteen eleven. And remember he had entered Georgia 735 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 1: Medical College as a slave that was actually owned by 736 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 1: the institution and the faculty. He became a freedman and 737 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: continued to work for them for years and years to come. Well, 738 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, he he had robbed so many graves, but 739 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: they were all essentially in what was the Cedar Grove Cemetery. 740 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: And these were African American individuals primarily that had been 741 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: buried there. They were all poor. There were a few 742 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,800 Speaker 1: poor whites that were there as well. In an interesting 743 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: turn of events, Gratison, when he passed, was buried in 744 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: Cedar Grove Cemetery as well. And just a few years 745 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: later a great flood took place. The Augusta River breached 746 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: the banks and Cedar Grove Cemetery was no more. And 747 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: to this day they have no idea whatever happened to 748 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: Gratison's remains. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body 749 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: backs