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Speaker 1: Welcome to Securrying America with me Frank Affne. The program

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Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country

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Speaker 1: we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the

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Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. We can be talking

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Speaker 1: about well, a very interesting spot on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the world, part of the Kingdom at the moment,

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Speaker 1: but there are efforts afoot to turn it over to

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Speaker 1: the dark side. We're going to talk with two of

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Speaker 1: our outstanding experts on the subject in a moment, but

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Speaker 1: before we do, that's brief coming from me. It's appalling

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Speaker 1: that Sir Kiir Starmer, the leader of a nation with

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Speaker 1: the history of the once great Britain, is currently not

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Speaker 1: simply groveling before China's communist emperor Jijingping. He's actively appeasing

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Speaker 1: freedom's mortal enemy. Last week, the UK approved a vast

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Speaker 1: new Chinese embassy in the heart of London. Now Stummer

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Speaker 1: wants Parliament to bless a disastrous deal likely to result

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Speaker 1: in the Chinese taking over a strategic US military installation

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Speaker 1: called Diego Garcia. Dozens of influential British and American patriots

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Speaker 1: are issuing today a powerful public statement opposing this unforced

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Speaker 1: error of epic proportions. Coming in the wake of Canada's

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Speaker 1: odious separate peace with the Chinese Communist Party last week,

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Speaker 1: London's pursuit of a new special relationship with Beijing can

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Speaker 1: only further embolden Jijingping and invite his aggression at the

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Speaker 1: expense of Taiwan and what else is left of the

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Speaker 1: free world. Those are my thoughts. For more of them,

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Speaker 1: follow me at x at Frank Affney and also at

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Speaker 1: usfuture dot org, the website of the Institute for the

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Speaker 1: American Future, which I'm the president, which makes this program possible.

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Speaker 1: Please consider donating at that button at us future dot org.

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Speaker 1: We're going to speak now to two remarkable thought leaders

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Speaker 1: and duty experts on matters involving the Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 1: the Pacific and particularly the islands that are part of

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Speaker 1: well what's known as the Indo Pacific region. We're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking with Cleo Pascal, a senior nonresident fellow

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Speaker 1: of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and truly a

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Speaker 1: binational treasure on these matters. She hails from Canada, but

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Speaker 1: she's very much mindful of the importance of protecting America's

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Speaker 1: western frontier, especially. She's joined by Colonel Grant Newsham, the

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Speaker 1: United States Marine Corps retired men who also served in

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Speaker 1: the Foreign Service and has been a businessman in the

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Speaker 1: Pacific region for years, a member of our committee on

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Speaker 1: the Present Danger of China. Believe both of them are

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Speaker 1: we are proud to have them as such, and believe

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Speaker 1: that what they are able to share with us on

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Speaker 1: the importance of Diego Garcia is what should be operating

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Speaker 1: at the moment, both in London and here in the Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC Capital. Lady and gentlemen, it's great to have you back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome once again.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here, Frank.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into the drama that's taking place at

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Speaker 1: the moment, both in London and in China, for the

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Speaker 1: moment as well as here, let's level set a little

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Speaker 1: bit on the importance of this speck of land in

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Speaker 1: the wide ocean region known as the Indian Ocean, Diego Garcia.

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Speaker 1: Why is it of such strategic value? Let's start with Cleo.

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Speaker 3: Well, its location is pretty exemplary. It's an island that

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Speaker 3: is surrounded by a lot of water or else other

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Speaker 3: uninhabited islands which means that it's very difficult to get to.

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Speaker 3: But from there you can also see very far range.

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Speaker 3: You can take a look at what's going on in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East, you can take a look at Afghanistan.

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Speaker 3: You can see what's coming into the Pacific Ocean, into

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Speaker 3: the Indian Ocean. And its geographical features means that it

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Speaker 3: has a port deep enough for an aircraft carrier, it

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Speaker 3: can land strategic bombers, it can refuel nuclear submarines, so

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Speaker 3: it really is the ideal base. You're on your own.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to approach, but you can reach out

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Speaker 3: and touch with a lot of really bad to project.

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Speaker 1: Power from it. Colonel you, I suspect have been there

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Speaker 1: in connection with your past line of work in the

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Speaker 1: state's Marine co but certainly you know a lot about

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Speaker 1: the grand strategy here. If that island were in the

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Speaker 1: hands of the Chinese Communists as a result of this

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Speaker 1: deal that the Brits are trying to get approved in

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Speaker 1: Parliament as we speak, what would be the implications of that, sir?

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Speaker 1: Not only that it's no longer ours to project power with,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps theirs.

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Speaker 2: If this goes through, the Chinese would be able to

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Speaker 2: eventually militarily and eventually politically dominate the Indian Ocean region,

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Speaker 2: and they put the Indians in a very difficult position.

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Speaker 2: But as a power projection platform, it's perfect for the

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Speaker 2: Chinese to get. And I would also note from our perspective,

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Speaker 2: this would be like losing Hawaii in terms of its

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Speaker 2: military usefulness. So think of US forces trying to defend

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Speaker 2: a Taiwan or Japan and into the Pacific and not

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Speaker 2: having Hawaiian bases, It's almost impossible to do. You'd have

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Speaker 2: to go eight thousand miles almost to do just about anything.

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Speaker 2: This is the only US base in the Indian Ocean

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Speaker 2: region which does, as was noted, allow us to reach

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Speaker 2: up into Iran, if necessary, up into India and beyond

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Speaker 2: to help them to the east side of the Indian

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Speaker 2: Ocean to Africa. Without it, we have nothing, And it

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Speaker 2: also serves as a lynch pin between US forces moving

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Speaker 2: east to west around the globe. And there's no alternative

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Speaker 2: to it. You cannot overstate the importance of it. To

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Speaker 2: give that up voluntarily or to allow that to happen

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Speaker 2: is insanity. And if the Chinese get as they eventually

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Speaker 2: will find some part of the globe where they have

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Speaker 2: not put their eyes on it and established a presence

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Speaker 2: and an influence. If they get that, we have put

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Speaker 2: ourselves and our friends in immense danger and we have

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Speaker 2: basically given up our hopes of having any influence in

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Speaker 2: that region as well.

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Speaker 1: So Clil, if all of that's true, how is it

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Speaker 1: that the Brits could possibly be surrendering this and to

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Speaker 1: whom are they surrendering it? And why would that translate?

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Speaker 1: Do you think into the Chinese ultimately being able to

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Speaker 1: exercise the kind of dominion that Colonel Lusem just talked about.

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Speaker 3: So it seems like there's a very narrow group of

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Speaker 3: Brits who are pushing for this, cures Starmer and the

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Speaker 3: coterie around him, and perhaps some civil servants, but even

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Speaker 3: among his own labor party, you're starting to get at

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Speaker 3: least one backbencher spoke up against it in the House,

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Speaker 3: which is very uncommon. So it's not widely popular, and

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Speaker 3: the more people learn about it, the more appalled they are.

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Speaker 3: Even in the UK, it was originally presented as that

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Speaker 3: kind of human rights thing because the British forcibly and

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Speaker 3: cruelly deported the Chigosians who are living on those islands

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Speaker 3: in the end of the sixties and early nineteen seventies

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Speaker 3: in order to make way for the base, doing things

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Speaker 3: like gazzing their pets and cutting off medical support. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was really the way they did it was very,

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Speaker 3: very different than the way the US handled similarly strategically

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Speaker 3: important islands in the Pacific with domestic populations. And the

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Speaker 3: idea was through international law that the UK needed to

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Speaker 3: decolonize the islands. But the agreement as presented does nothing

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Speaker 3: for the Chigosian people, and in fact the Chigosians in

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Speaker 3: the UK because many relocated to the UK and became British.

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Speaker 3: Chigosians joined the UK military. In some cases, they've come

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Speaker 3: out with a government and exile, and the leader of

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Speaker 3: the government and exile is eloquently and passionately saying that

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Speaker 3: they want the island to stay British, they want the

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Speaker 3: base to stay there, they want to resettle some of

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Speaker 3: the other islands, and they want the right to perhaps

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Speaker 3: work on the base if they're looking for employees. But

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Speaker 3: the idea of being handed over to Mauritius is in

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Speaker 3: factor reconization.

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Speaker 1: Colonel There's one other aspect of this, just in thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: If you could touch on it that the idea that

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Speaker 1: the base must be nuclear free under this deal as well.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's part of it too. The government of Mauritius

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Speaker 2: has signed something called the Pollin Daba Treaty which says

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Speaker 2: that nuclear weapons will not be stored on Diego Garcia,

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Speaker 2: and US forces going through there sometimes have nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 2: You may have a need to store them there as well,

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Speaker 2: the British may.

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Speaker 1: And we neither confirm nor deny that we're doing that,

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Speaker 1: but it can be a problem if they say, well,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to allow you to do it, even

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Speaker 1: if you don't acknowledge it. We have to take a

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Speaker 1: very short break. We'll be right back with more with

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Speaker 1: Grant nism and Cleo Pascal on Diaco Garcia and why

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Speaker 1: it must remain not Chinese. Be right back. We're back,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm very pleased to say Cleo Pascal uh

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Speaker 1: the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and Grant Nusham the

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Speaker 1: Center for Security Policy. Grant is the author of a

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Speaker 1: best selling book, The Sorry When China Attacks. A warning

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Speaker 1: to America. Grant, you were finishing a thought and I

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Speaker 1: had to interrupt you because of the vicissitudes of the clock.

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Speaker 1: Finish what you were saying about the importance of our

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Speaker 1: being able to maintain nuclear weapons storage capabilities on Diego

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Speaker 1: Garcia if we need.

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Speaker 2: To, sure, well, nuclear weapons are a tool that sometimes

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Speaker 2: you have to have. But the problem is that because

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Speaker 2: of the pollen Daba treaty that Mauritius has signed that

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Speaker 2: prohibits having nuclear weapons really on Diego Garcia. So what

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Speaker 2: is going to happen immediately is the government of Mauritius

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Speaker 2: is going to raise objections. They're going to be egged

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Speaker 2: on by the Chinese to make it very difficult for

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Speaker 2: the Americans to operate on this ground of nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 2: So as soon as you signed the treaty, you're setting

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Speaker 2: yourself up for this sort of legal nightmare that's coming

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Speaker 2: your way, and that makes things very hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now the Brits are assuring us that there won't

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Speaker 1: be any problems along these lines, though I gather they

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Speaker 1: now have acknowledged that there will be this issue.

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Speaker 4: I know you were.

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Speaker 1: Mindful as a student of history of some previous promises

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Speaker 1: that British governments made to other foreign People's just a

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Speaker 1: quick word on that grant before we turn to what

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Speaker 1: the Brits are doing.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, sure little more than a student of history.

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Speaker 2: Look at Hong Kong. The British promised the people of

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Speaker 2: Hong Kong that they'd have fifty years of freedom and

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Speaker 2: to have their own system. The Chinese strangled that they

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Speaker 2: broke the promise immediately. Yet the British had a handsome

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Speaker 2: turnover ceremony with Prince Charles there and said everything's going

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Speaker 2: to be great. Look at Hong Kong. Now it's basically

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Speaker 2: a prison, and go back further. Zimbabwe, the British government

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Speaker 2: said the same thing, trust us, don't worry about what's coming,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about Mugabi. We've got everything sorted out. Within

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Speaker 2: two years, Mugabi had murdered twenty thousand Matabili tribesmen, and

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Speaker 2: eventually he looted the country and murdered any number of

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Speaker 2: people and destroyed the place. The British government, after having

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Speaker 2: said trust us, why exactly would we trust them now

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Speaker 2: over Mauritius. Their promise, I'm afraid doesn't mean a whole lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a fascinating conversation yesterday. I think it

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Speaker 1: was with Rod Martin, who said, if ever you needed

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Speaker 1: a reason to abjure the idea of putting American confidence

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Speaker 1: in the Danes on Greenland's future status. Look at what's

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Speaker 1: happening here with the Brits and Diego Garcia Mauritius, partly

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Speaker 1: because we have a preceding treaty, an agreement between the

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Speaker 1: United States and the UK that said, you know, they

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Speaker 1: would maintain their sovereignty there at least until I believe

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Speaker 1: it was twenty thirty six, So all of this is

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Speaker 1: a bolox and Cleo, if you could just give us

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Speaker 1: a sense of the state of play inside Britain. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that the Parliament is being asked to approve this

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Speaker 1: agreement with Mauritius. What are the prospects can we tell

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Speaker 1: and how important do you think this open public statement

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Speaker 1: by scores of prominent Brits and Americans might be in

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Speaker 1: their deliberations.

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Speaker 3: I think it might be quite important, because I think

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Speaker 3: the premise of the British government now ratification of the

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Speaker 3: treaty is that this is a passing storm. Trump changes

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Speaker 3: his mind when he's talking about Diego Garcia, who was

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Speaker 3: really talking about Greenland. They're really trying to downplay it.

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Speaker 3: So when you see the signatories on this letter. I

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Speaker 3: mean you've got retired admirals and generals and senior former

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Speaker 3: National Security Council members, military planners. I mean, these are

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Speaker 3: people who very rarely come out in public and make

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Speaker 3: this kind of a statement, and all across the political spectrum.

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Speaker 3: I think that the message will be sent loud and

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Speaker 3: clear that this is not going away, and this has

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Speaker 3: the potential too seriously of the relationship. And it goes

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Speaker 3: to what you're saying about the raising concerns about Denmark.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you take a look at the national

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Speaker 3: security strategy and how it raises questions about the future

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Speaker 3: of Europe, Europe is not Europe politically, is not contained

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Speaker 3: to Europe. Geographically. There are parts of Europe in the

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Speaker 3: Indian Ocean, as you can see with the UK, Indio, Garcia,

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Speaker 3: France is in the Pacific and the Indian Ocean with

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Speaker 3: Reno and French Polynesia. They're they're even in Canada with

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Speaker 3: Saint Pierre and Niccolo, which is almost completely surrounded by Canada.

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Speaker 3: And so if you're thinking about how going forward a

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Speaker 3: changing Europe might affect those little pieces of strategic geography

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Speaker 3: which currently we think of as outposts of a freedom

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Speaker 3: projection becoming outposts of vulnerability. These it really bears serious consideration.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Claire, just to nail this down the relationship

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Speaker 1: between Mauritius and communists China is what exactly and why

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Speaker 1: is there this real concern that ultimately China would be

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Speaker 1: the beneficiary of what the Brits are doing to us

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Speaker 1: to essentially endanger or hold on Diego Garcia.

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Speaker 3: The China's moving into Mauritius in the same way it

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Speaker 3: moves into similar small, economically vulnerable countries with a rapacious elite.

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Speaker 3: There's all sorts of concerns about money laundering, drugs, brothels

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Speaker 3: with video cameras in them, the sort of targeted influence

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Speaker 3: coercion campaigns that you would expect to see anywhere. And

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Speaker 3: I think China has made it pretty clear that they

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Speaker 3: want toe holds across the Indian Ocean. They tried in

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Speaker 3: Sri Lanka, they've tried it in the mild Us, they

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Speaker 3: tried it in the Seychelles, and Mauritius is part of

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Speaker 3: that laundry list and it's pretty far advanced. The Indians,

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Speaker 3: I think, thought they had a lot of control there,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not so sure they have as much as

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Speaker 3: they think they do. And anyway, we're talking about a

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Speaker 3: ninety nine year lease.

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Speaker 1: Ninety nine year lease which has in the fine print

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Speaker 1: that if the Brits somehow managed to miss a payment

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Speaker 1: even by one month, the whole thing is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a dead letter, and the arrangement with the United States

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Speaker 1: would be as well. Clil and Colonel Nishiam, I just

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Speaker 1: want to say your attention to this problem on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the world is so exemplary of the

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Speaker 1: kind of work that you both do and the kind

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Speaker 1: of service that you are so rendering to Americans who

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Speaker 1: just assume that somebody in positions of responsibility is minding

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Speaker 1: the store on these sorts of matters. And I just

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Speaker 1: want to give you a sort of concluding opportunity, each

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Speaker 1: of you to make the kind of appeal that we

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Speaker 1: should be doing, and I think are in this letter.

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Speaker 1: I believe all three of us have signed this open

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Speaker 1: public statement, if you will. To the President of the

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Speaker 1: United States, on the one hand, he said this is

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Speaker 1: a great stupidity after initially I guess thinking it wasn't

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Speaker 1: so bad, but on reflection came to the right conclusion.

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Speaker 1: But also to the British government especially the House of Lords,

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Speaker 1: the House of Commons that are be voting on this

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Speaker 1: thing at any moment. Colonel, shall we start with you?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: This would be an act of really defense suicide. Have

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Speaker 2: we got let this happen? This is how serious this is.

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Speaker 2: Think about losing Hawaii and then trying to defend the Pacific.

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Speaker 2: You can't do it. Think about losing dieve Garcia and

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Speaker 2: trying to operate down and defend our interest down in

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Speaker 2: the Indian Ocean and our friends interest. You can't do it.

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Speaker 2: Why would you voluntarily give up just an excellent piece

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Speaker 2: of real estate that has served very very well, and

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Speaker 2: it's served very well when the President went after around

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Speaker 2: last June was part of the part of the plan.

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Speaker 2: So this is something that needs attention, needs to be stopped,

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Speaker 2: and we have to somehow get over this idea that

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Speaker 2: all the British are our friends. There are British who

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Speaker 2: do not like us and prefer the Chinese, the Chinese system,

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Speaker 2: and so defend America.

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Speaker 1: Clel last three seconds.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think that this has been really damaging for

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Speaker 3: US UK relations. I've personally had a senior British official

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Speaker 3: give me inaccurate information on this and the members of

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration who were manipul related or allied to

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Speaker 3: will not forget it. This was a very very bad

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Speaker 3: decision on the part of the Starmer administration.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, perhaps endangering the very underpinnings of the special relationship.

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Speaker 4: Thank you to you both.

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Speaker 1: Come back with updates on all of this after the

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Speaker 1: rest of you will stay tuned.

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Speaker 4: We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, And I want to say welcome for the

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Speaker 1: first time to our program of a man that I've

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Speaker 1: only just met. His name is Robert Midgley. He has

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Speaker 1: been a communications advisor to four and count them, four

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Speaker 1: Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom. He knows his way

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Speaker 1: around the highest echelons of His Majesty's government. As a result,

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Speaker 1: he is these days, however, here in the United States

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Speaker 1: doing a very important charitable work as the spokesman for

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Speaker 1: Friends of British overseas territories, one of which is the

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Speaker 1: one we've been talking about with Bran Newsham and Cleo Pascal,

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Speaker 1: namely Diego Garcia in the Chegos Islands. We've talked about

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Speaker 1: how it is that those islands are now being relinquished

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Speaker 1: by the Starmer government of Great Britain if it has

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Speaker 1: its way to Mauritius. Yes, immediately, but almost certainly in

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Speaker 1: due course to the Chinese Communist Party, our mortal enemies.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to say, Robert, thank you for

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Speaker 1: taking up this cause, thank you for the delegation that

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Speaker 1: you are squating around here in Washington at the moment.

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Speaker 1: We're very anxious to first of all, get a sense

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Speaker 1: from you as to where this whole issue stands inside

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Speaker 1: the British government. We'll talk a bit about the implications

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Speaker 1: for us as well as for Britain if it goes forward,

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Speaker 1: and what are the solutions, but let's level said a

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Speaker 1: little bit on your sense of the state of play

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Speaker 1: guess in the Parliament at this moment.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and thanks for having me on Frank. This week

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Speaker 5: is a really critical week with this bill and with

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Speaker 5: the deal, and my main purpose in DC is to

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Speaker 5: build awareness of what is going on in the UK

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Speaker 5: right now, because there's a real opportunity to take this

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Speaker 5: bill out of play right now and potentially save us

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Speaker 5: from a very embarrassing situation now on the next ninety

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Speaker 5: nine years. You know, everything is at play now, this

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Speaker 5: is while we're in DC. But what's going on in

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Speaker 5: the UK is this bill, which was raised almost a

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Speaker 5: year ago, now looks to hand away dio Garcia and

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Speaker 5: Richagos Islands and seed sovereignty to Mauritius. And you know,

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Speaker 5: Geogalsia has one of the most critical bases in the

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Speaker 5: world to the UK US military base. It has been

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Speaker 5: one bombers that it has ability to, you know, cover

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Speaker 5: East Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, that whole area, but as well

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Speaker 5: as being able to reach for South China Sea, which

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Speaker 5: is going to be critical in the next ninety nine years.

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Speaker 5: So this lease, I mean, it's absolutely bonkers from our

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Speaker 5: behalf that this what we're planning to do. Is we've

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Speaker 5: held sovereignty over these islands for over two hundred years,

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Speaker 5: since since we've defeated Nepolean in the Bustle of Waterloo.

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Speaker 5: We've held this territory since eighteen fourteen in perpetuity. And

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Speaker 5: now we're looking the UK is looking. I'm not going

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Speaker 5: to say it's myself because it's not well. The UK

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Speaker 5: is looking to give away all these islands for free

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Speaker 5: and then rent back Diogalsia for ninety nine years using

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Speaker 5: forty six billion pounds. And I think that is absolutely outrageous.

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Speaker 5: So I mean you've probably seen the clips with Trump saying, oh,

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Speaker 5: the UK must need the money. No, when we're not

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Speaker 5: selling them, we're giving them away for free and renting

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Speaker 5: the base back sovereign territory.

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Speaker 1: And as I understand it, if there's a failure to

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Speaker 1: make the payments, even for a month, the whole thing

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Speaker 1: goes over the side.

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Speaker 5: Is that right, Yes, So basically, if the UK doesn't

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Speaker 5: make that payment after a month, Mauritius can say, well,

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Speaker 5: get off our sovereign territory then, which means losing that

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Speaker 5: whole territory, that entire, most essential military base in the world.

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Speaker 5: We would just lose it instantly and be asked to depart.

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Speaker 5: I mean at that point I think the US would

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Speaker 5: just have to, you know, invade it or something. But

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Speaker 5: what I want to speak about before we move on

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Speaker 5: to another topic is what the state or players.

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Speaker 6: In the UK.

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Speaker 5: Because the bill starts about a year ago, and I

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Speaker 5: think it's quite similar with the US. It goes via

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Speaker 5: both houses, so it goes through the it's introduced, it

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Speaker 5: goes through the first, second, third reading in the House

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Speaker 5: of Commons, and then it goes to the House of Lords.

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Speaker 5: Now This is very interesting because we have a socialist

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Speaker 5: labor government that has a majority, so they being able

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Speaker 5: to push this through using all their MPs every single time,

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Speaker 5: three hundred and fifty votes, which is more than the

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Speaker 5: opposition through the first three to second third reading, and

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Speaker 5: now it's rented the Lords, which has a conservative majority.

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Speaker 5: Now this is important because they haven't been woken up

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Speaker 5: so far until about a few weeks ago. So this

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Speaker 5: actually got through the first, second and third readings by

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Speaker 5: complete fluke of a Conservatives not realizing they have the

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Speaker 5: power to do something. And it's thanks to our lobby

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Speaker 5: and behalfs that we've been able to wake them up

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Speaker 5: in the last moment to amendments through to get it

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Speaker 5: bounced back to the Commons. So we passed through the

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Speaker 5: third reading and then we've added some amendments.

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Speaker 6: The amendments succeeded.

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Speaker 5: We had four amendments go through, which meant it was

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Speaker 5: going to go back to the House of Commons we

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Speaker 5: voted upon. Now obviously that would we lost all those

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Speaker 5: four votes in the Commons.

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Speaker 6: But now which is more interesting.

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Speaker 5: That the President has woken up and said this deal

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Speaker 5: is terrible.

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Speaker 6: So because he's.

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Speaker 1: Woken stupid I think was the word.

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Speaker 6: Actually, yes, pure stupidity.

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Speaker 5: So because of this, the US have taken off step

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Speaker 5: back and said, oh, maybe we're not on board with

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Speaker 5: this after all, and the UK is freaking out and

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Speaker 5: said we're going to sort of temporarily suspend the bill

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Speaker 5: while while we understand the Americans understanding if this is

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Speaker 5: official their official stance, that we then suspended until we

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Speaker 5: understand that we have got the US back on board.

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Speaker 5: So this is currently suspended, but the Labor Party can

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Speaker 5: bring this back at any moment to push it back

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Speaker 5: through the Lord, and they're determined to give his territory away.

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Speaker 6: Frank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so if just to follow the logic here,

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Speaker 1: if they blow it through the House of Commons, as

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Speaker 1: you say, they've got an overwhelming majority there, they can

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Speaker 1: force it through the House of Lords if they choose to.

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Speaker 5: They could do they could use rall prerogative of the

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Speaker 5: Parliament Act to just ignore the Lord and push it

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Speaker 5: straight through. And that's that's a real danger where plannary front.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure they will because it's it's something that

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Speaker 5: is very rarely used and I don't think Labor considered

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Speaker 5: this big enough to push it through, but I mean,

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Speaker 5: we consider it bigger enough.

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Speaker 6: They don't. They don't treasure it as much as we do.

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Speaker 6: So that's a very last result.

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Speaker 5: So right now, this is kind of in the US hands,

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Speaker 5: which is why we're here, because the US now control

437
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 5: the power. There's a deal that was signed in nineteen

438
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 5: sixty six, but it says that the US holds the

439
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 5: keys on any changes to the treaty. And also there's

440
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 5: another part to it that says it requires two years

441
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 5: to make any changes.

442
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 6: To that treaty.

443
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 5: Now, obviously the socialist labor government is trying to force

444
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 5: us through within a few weeks and that is not.

445
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: Go on, Robert. The arrangement, as I understand, it is

446
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: supposed to apply until twenty thirty six as well, the

447
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: current lease.

448
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 5: That's not the treaty, the arrangement, that's the current lease.

449
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 5: And they are also just renewed the lease a few

450
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 5: years ago. I think it was twenty twenty. They renewed

451
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 5: the lease as well. But this is, you know, the

452
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 5: US season. This is so critical that lease will go

453
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 5: over at twenty thirty six.

454
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 6: It will be renewed without any any second of a doubt.

455
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: Right, But maybe I'm set fatally by this set for moment,

456
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: So give us in you know, two or three minutes

457
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: we've got left as clear are a call to action

458
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: as you can on this side of the pond in particular, sir, Look.

459
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 5: What we need right now is the US to put

460
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 5: in formal writing that this needs to be withdrawn.

461
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 6: We need a state of partment.

462
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 5: We need people in the White House to put it

463
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 5: into writing that they withdraw their support and this bill

464
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 5: needs to be taken off the table completely.

465
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 6: This is too much of a security threat.

466
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: I found out yesterday that well Mauritius has now said

467
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 5: the nuclear weapons are now not able to be stored

468
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 5: on Diogalsia. This is huge because this is part of

469
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 5: the Pendolimdba treaty and who is a cosignatory of that.

470
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 6: It's China.

471
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: China has said they've done an action plan to say

472
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 5: that they want to inspect sites with potential nuclear weapons.

473
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 5: That could mean China could be inspecting nuclear weapons on

474
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 5: dio Galsia. There's a second point of this, because if

475
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 5: a war breaks out in the South China Sea, you

476
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 5: can't depend on Guam, for example, you can't depend on

477
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 5: military basis east of China. Because they are in range

478
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 5: of Chinese missiles, but the OO Galcia isn't. And if

479
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 5: you look at the B one bomber range, it's about

480
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: seven five hundred miles. Now Joe Galcia is three eight

481
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 5: hundred miles from Taiwan, for example, So there's enough range

482
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 5: for B one bombers to go there and back from

483
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 5: Deo Garcia without being hit. This is really essential. So

484
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 5: you've got the South China Sea aspects, and you've got

485
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 5: this inspection aspect as well. If that isn't enough for

486
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 5: the US to turn around and say this deal is

487
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: not compatible with security of the world, then that needs

488
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 5: to happen.

489
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: So the President and Secretary Rubio had previously been it

490
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: seems favorably disposed to the steal. They now have seen

491
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: the light. The President has said, it's a great stupidity.

492
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: What are the prospects as you see it now with

493
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: your good efforts, of course, and a new letter public statement,

494
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: I guess is what it's been called by scores of

495
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: prominent figures on both sides of the pond, urging the

496
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: President to do what you're saying. Do you think that's

497
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: likely to happen? And if not, what can we do

498
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: now to intensify the likelihood of it.

499
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 5: Look, the President has said what he thinks, then that's

500
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 5: called a domino effect into how this policy should change.

501
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 5: So now we have the policy experts in the White House,

502
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 5: we have the advisors who are holding the pen on this.

503
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 5: Like I said, we need that formal letter to now

504
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 5: go through to the UK government to say formal withdrawal.

505
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 6: So that is the next step.

506
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 5: A real danger right now is say the embassy or

507
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 5: the Foreign Office from the UK is trying to persuade

508
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 5: them around using legal texts, but we need to make

509
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 5: them aware that visit defense to all those legal textavis exemptions,

510
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 5: they will cite that the electromagnetic spectrum is at risk.

511
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 5: We need to say there will be an exemption, a

512
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 5: military exemption of the Article forty eight that pulls it out.

513
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: All right, there's a lot of detail here. We have

514
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: to have you back for more explication of it. But

515
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that people understand we must

516
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: say no to this deal. And right away, thank you,

517
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: Robert Mitchelie, come back to us with updates, sir, God

518
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: bless We'll be right back to folks. We're back and

519
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm delighted to say. So is Rabbi pisk Wlicky, one

520
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: of our most important contributors from the Middle East, talking

521
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: usually about what's going on there, but sometimes what's going

522
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: on here that bears upon what will happen in the

523
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: Middle East. He is, of course, the executive director of

524
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: Israel three sixty five Action, where he produces a torrent

525
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: of very important video newsreels. I guess one might call

526
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: them updates on developments that we here in the United

527
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: States as well as elsewhere around the world, need to

528
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: be apprised of. He is also a podcaster. He co

529
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: hosts Shoulder to Shoulder. He is a columnist for The

530
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: Jerusalem Post and a partner frequently in our Victory Coalition

531
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: briefings and other projects, and we're very proud always to

532
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: have him with us. Rebbi, welcome back. It's good to

533
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: have you at a time such as this, my friend.

534
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 7: Thank you, Frank. It always seems like the news cycle

535
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 7: is exploding on us.

536
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: It's just giving us something to talk about. I considered

537
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: a blessing in a fashion. Let's talk about Gaza first

538
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: and foremost. Congratulations to Israel in the recovery finally of

539
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: the last human remains of the last hostage. This is

540
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: obviously important in a humanitarian and moral sense, but it

541
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: also is supposed to trigger the next phase of the

542
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: President Trump's twenty point piece plan, and there are several

543
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 1: aspects of that phase that are problematic, and I wanted

544
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: to get your take on how you see things developing

545
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: going forward from here.

546
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 7: Well, Frank, it's interesting that you say that this is

547
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 7: supposed to trigger phase two, which is how the whole

548
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 7: world is interpreting it, and certainly how those forces around

549
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 7: President Trump who want to move on to phase two

550
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 7: are interpreting it. Problem is that if we look at

551
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 7: the twenty point plan of President Trump's and it's important

552
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 7: to note that the terms phase one phase two don't

553
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 7: appear in that plan. It's not like there's a clearly

554
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 7: delineated this is phase one.

555
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 4: This is phase two. And why is that important?

556
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 7: Because the opening clauses of the plan do talk about

557
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 7: what has to happen first and what has to happen next,

558
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 7: and the disarming of Ramas, the complete dismantling.

559
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 4: It's more than disarming.

560
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 7: The removal of Ramas as both a governing and military

561
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 7: body is also part of quote unquote phase one. It's

562
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 7: part of the beginning, meaning when I say phase one,

563
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 7: meaning it is written into the plan as the prerequisite

564
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 7: for moving on to reconstruction, for bringing in international stabilization force,

565
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 7: for and certainly for Israeli withdrawal from what's called the

566
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 7: Yellow line, the internal perimeter that Israel has been that

567
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 7: has has been holding the positions Israel has been holding,

568
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 7: which essentially put about fifty three percent. They put fifty

569
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 7: three percent of the Gaza strip under Israeli control. Most

570
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 7: of the population is under Ramas control. So this really

571
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 7: is the crux of the issue. When you talk about

572
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 7: how this is supposed to trigger phase two, you weren't

573
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 7: saying that as your opinion. You were saying that because

574
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 7: that's the way it's being marketed to all of us, Frank.

575
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: Among others, by I think the United States government, If I'm.

576
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 7: Not Frank, you and I have been talking for two years,

577
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 7: more than two years, about one particular point that now

578
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 7: comes to a head. I remember our conversations about this

579
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 7: going all the way back to shortly after October seventh,

580
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 7: that the day that the State of Israel decided, and

581
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 7: it was about a month and a half into the war.

582
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 7: The day that they decided to place the release of

583
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 7: all the hostages on par with the objective of destroying Ramas.

584
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 7: You and I spoke about this on your show, and

585
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 7: I wrote about it in the Jerusalem Post, where Israel

586
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 7: said that we now have two primary objectives in this war,

587
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 7: the destruction of Hamas and the freeing of all the hostages.

588
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 7: And that came because of a lot of political pressure

589
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 7: from the free the hostages community in Israel.

590
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 4: It really became a community, and.

591
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 7: Of course we all want the hostages free, and this

592
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 7: is what we and I'm sure you remember these conversations,

593
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 7: both private and on your show, about how you cannot

594
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 7: have two primary goals, and that the goal of defeating Kamas,

595
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 7: of destroying Kamas, I should say, disarming and destroying Kamas,

596
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 7: and the goal of returning all the hostages are actually,

597
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 7: strategically speaking, mutually exclusive. And here we are, here we are, Frank,

598
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 7: the last hostages come home, and there's this big sigh

599
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 7: of relief. And now it's you know, there's an expression

600
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 7: going around Israel now that it's finally October eighth, like

601
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 7: we finally moved past. And it's true, there is that closure,

602
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 7: the fact that there is not a single Jew, alive

603
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 7: or dead, not a single Israeli a live or dead,

604
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 7: being held by Hamas and Gaza is almost a utopian

605
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 7: ideal for many Israelis. It lifts this emotional burden that

606
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 7: we've been bearing with us since that faithful day. That said,

607
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 7: now we face the issue that there's no roadmap for

608
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 7: the disarming of Hamas. The twenty Point Plan speaks about

609
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 7: it as something that will simply happen, and israel Is

610
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 7: I hope and believe, determined not to budge from the

611
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 7: yellow line until Hamas is disarmed and removed, because that

612
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 7: is the agreement, that is the twenty Point Plan that

613
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 7: Israel agreed to.

614
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: Its part and parcel of what one might call Phase one,

615
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: and without that being satisfied, it's not possible to move on.

616
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: But let me just ask you, Reva, because obviously this

617
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: Board of Peace, chaired by President Donald Trump is being

618
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: stood up or being told there's a technocratic government being

619
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: put in place. I be surprised, frankly if there's not

620
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: some intensifying pressure to allow some sort of stabilization force

621
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: to get in there. Your sense that the Israeli government

622
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: is going to hold fast on this precondition which I

623
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: think is not only eminently sensible but absolutely necessary, depends

624
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: it would seem on something that has been a big

625
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: factor in everything that's preceded it, namely the relationship between

626
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: President Trump and Benjamin Nataniel who and therefore the relationship

627
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: between the United States and Israel. Walk us through that quickly,

628
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: we've got forty five seconds before break.

629
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 7: Well, I'm not sure that that's the main thing that

630
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 7: it depends on, because from the Israeli side, there is

631
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 7: no way that Prime Minister Nataenniel, who can save face

632
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 7: or have a political career or have a legacy to

633
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 7: speak of, if the Israeli troops start withdrawing from the

634
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 7: Yellow line before Hamas is disarmed. So there could be

635
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 7: a move to bring in some foreign forces as an

636
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 7: international stableization for US. But does anyone think that they're

637
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 7: going to walk into the Hamas side of the Gaza

638
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 7: strip without Hamas being disarmed? And certainly does anyone think

639
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 7: they're going to take away their weapons? And the Israelis

640
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 7: will not budge on this, I'm quite certain of it.

641
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: All right, let's put some money on that, because it's

642
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: a very very important proposition. Oh yeah, Well, let's take

643
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: a short break. We'll be right back and we're going

644
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: to turn to the other big settled question in the

645
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Middle East, Iran with Rathbot Pessock Wilicki Station. We're back,

646
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: and so is Rabbi Pessick Willicki, the executive director of

647
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: Israel three sixty five Action. Check his videos there, folks.

648
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: They are absolutely superb and really required viewing if you

649
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: want to stay abreast of what is happening at the

650
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: moment in the Middle East. Rabbi, we were talking about Gaza.

651
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: I want to pivot to another very very fraught situation,

652
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: and that is the Islamic Republic of Iran remains under

653
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: the regime of these brutal totalitarian Sharia supremacists. There are

654
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: reports that they imported jihadists from elsewhere to engage in

655
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: mass murder of their people. I heard this morning that

656
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: the BBC was reporting six thousand people have been killed,

657
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: but it might be multiples of that. I'm told that

658
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: reports from inside Iran are now saying perhaps as many

659
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: as sixty five thousand have been killed. And that was

660
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: after Donald Trump said don't even think about doing that

661
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: and promised to help them, and is now moving forces

662
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: into the region with it appears the purpose of taking

663
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: steps to punish the regime. What are we to make

664
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: of all this, sir? Where is Israel on it? And

665
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: where do you think we head from here?

666
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 7: So let's start with where Israel is on it. Prime

667
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 7: Minister Nathaniel gave a press conference yesterday. He made a

668
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 7: statement about this, and the Iranian regime has been threatening

669
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 7: that if the US attacks, it will retaliate by attacking Israel.

670
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 4: So Prime Minister Nathaniel.

671
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 7: Responded to that by saying that if if Iran chooses

672
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 7: to make that mistake and attack Israel, they will suffer

673
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 7: a blow that.

674
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: Is even beyond what they could imagine.

675
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 7: He also made a point of saying that Israel is

676
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 7: not going to make its decisions based on what the

677
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 7: US decides.

678
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: That the US his exact.

679
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 7: Words were, President Trump will decide what the US will do,

680
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 7: but we will make our own decisions. He opened his

681
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 7: statement with that, so it was obviously on top of

682
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 7: mind for his messaging. Now what does all this mean?

683
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 7: So you talk about the number of casualties, which is

684
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 7: extremely high, in the fact that President Trump made this

685
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 7: warning that if they killed protesters, they're going to step in,

686
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 7: But Let's not forget that the Qataris and the Saudis

687
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 7: immediately said that the US cannot use its bases that

688
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 7: are in Saudi Arabia and kat Iron can't use their

689
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 7: airspace for any attack.

690
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 4: Now, President Trump.

691
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 7: Did not push back on that, but I have to

692
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 7: believe just reading the guy, that he doesn't like to

693
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 7: be told what he can and can't do by vassal

694
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 7: protectorate states, certainly what he can and can't do with

695
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 7: American assets that are in the region protecting those states.

696
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 7: I'm sure he didn't like that, but and I understand him.

697
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 7: He didn't want to blow up the relationship over those statements.

698
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 7: It's not the time and place for it, necessarily. And

699
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 7: that's when we started seeing all these other assets moving

700
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 7: into the region, including the Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier which

701
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 7: has F thirty five's on it, moving into the region,

702
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 7: and many other assets American American military assets moving into

703
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 7: the region. Now also congruently, he was told President Trump

704
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 7: was told by he was told that the Iranians had

705
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 7: held off on executing people.

706
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 4: And uh and and the and the killing has stopped.

707
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 7: Remember President Trump said that, and he said, we're checking

708
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 7: in that it now turns out that it was none

709
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 7: other than our good buddy Steve Whitcoff, who relayed that

710
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 7: message to President Trump, and it was relayed to Whitcoff

711
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 7: by Masud Pesayan, the president of Iran. In other words,

712
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 7: Witcoff again was the bagman for the Islamists, trying to

713
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 7: keep President Trump from attacking them.

714
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: Now, at this Witcoff was talking about there being a

715
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: possible deal to come out of a possible deal.

716
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 7: But now this has all been revealed to have been

717
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 7: that President Trump was lied to. Now it's no, it's

718
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 7: it's there's no doubt that more Iranians were killed because

719
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 7: Trump said help is on the way and and gave

720
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 7: that warning, and they therefore went out into the streets.

721
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 4: And that's tragic and terrible and a moral failure.

722
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 7: But all signs point to the fact that there will

723
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 7: be some sort of attack, and I understand also President

724
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 7: Trump's thinking that he doesn't want to carry out an

725
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 7: attack that won't bring down the regime.

726
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 4: And bringing down the regime is not a simple matter.

727
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 4: This isn't like you know.

728
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 7: The Assad regime in Syria or the Kadafi regime in Libya,

729
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 7: that there is just like one despot and his family,

730
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 7: and if you get rid of them, asad flees to Russia,

731
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 7: no more. Regime in Syria doesn't work that way in Iran.

732
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 7: The IRGC is one hundred and fifty thousand men.

733
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 4: Their families.

734
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 7: It's think about it more as the model of the CCP,

735
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 7: where you have a whole strata, the whole stratum of

736
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 7: the population that is oppressing everybody else and that has

737
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 7: this whole apparatus, and you can't just bring it down

738
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 7: by eliminating the supreme leader. So what exactly the strikes

739
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 7: will be that President and Trump will take and how

740
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 7: he'll go about trying to bring down the regime remains

741
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 7: to be seen. But it is my feeling, and you know,

742
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 7: I've gone back and forth on this, but I don't

743
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 7: think he wants to end up looking like another Obama

744
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 7: who blinked and backed off when he made an empty

745
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 7: and made an empty threat. And moving all these military

746
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 7: assets into the region really points to the fact that

747
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 7: there is that there is a plan to move forward.

748
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 7: Israel will not sit on its hands, okay, And that's

749
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 7: what Prime Minister Nathaniel was saying when he said We're

750
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 7: going to make our own decisions independent of what the

751
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 7: United States is doing.

752
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 4: So this is still all the combat was said.

753
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: It must be noted that the US Central Command commander

754
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: was in Israel the other two days ago, and I

755
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: think it's not unreasonable to assume that what was being

756
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: discussed were the plans of the respective parties. So while

757
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: Israel's actions should not depend on the decisions of the

758
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: United States and even the timing of them, it is

759
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: obviously desiral if oh, for sure it's going to be

760
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: a strike, that this be orchestrated in concert.

761
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 4: Noe, oh, for sure, this coordination. There's certainly coordination.

762
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 7: I'm just saying there's and we've seen this develop over

763
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 7: the course of the last two years, Frank, that there's

764
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 7: increasingly Israel has been willing to act alone and even

765
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 7: in defiance of the United States. We saw that with

766
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 7: the admittedly failed strike in Qatar. We saw that with

767
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 7: Israel's moves to protect the Drus and Kurdish communities in

768
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 7: Syria that was and airstrikes in Syria that the United

769
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 7: States was opposed to. We saw it with the Ramas

770
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 7: guys who were stuck in a tunnel in Rafa, and

771
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 7: the US was pressuring Israel to let them out without

772
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 7: their weapons, and Israel said no, they can either die

773
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 7: or get arrested, and Israel ended up killing them all.

774
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 4: There's been a.

775
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 7: Number of sign posts where we see Israel making its

776
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 7: own decisions in defiance of US policy. Quietly, politely, We're

777
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 7: not trying to blow up the relationship, and there's certainly coordination.

778
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 7: I'm just saying that when I when I you knows,

779
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 7: as a let's say, as a professional observer of Prime

780
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 7: Minister Natanyahu, if I could call myself that he there's

781
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 7: a there's a when he steps up to the mic

782
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 7: and the opening words out of his mouth are the

783
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 7: US will do what it the US will decide what

784
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 7: it wants to do, and Israel will decide what it

785
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 7: wants to do.

786
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 4: I think he's making a point.

787
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: I think he's making a hugely important point, and we

788
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: hope that he will be acting upon it for both

789
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: of our country's sake, to finish off this regime in Tehran.

790
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: Bless you, rabbit, Pessick will like you come back soon,

791
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: if you would hope the rest of you to do

792
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: the same next time. Until then that you'll go forth

793
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: and multiply