1 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 2 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Wisenthal. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 3: And I'm Tracy Alloway. 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Tracy, do you remember the episode we did with Chase Emerson. 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 3: I do about land development in Arizona. 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: Right, So that was we're talking to a land broker, 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: someone who helped facilitate the sale of sort of unused 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: or agricultural land to homeowners or to sort of home builders. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: But there's been a lot of talk, and we touched 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: on it a bit in that episode about like the 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: sustainability of water usage in Arizona. 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 3: Yes. In fact, there was a pretty big headline that 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 3: came out quite recently saying that Arizona was going to 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: halt new home approvals in parts of Phoenix because of 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: concerns over water availability. 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Right, and so there's this question about like, Okay, Arizona 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: is like this boomstae right, tons of population growth, tons 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: of land, people moving there has been booming for years. 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: It's booming from a industrial standpoint too. There's all these 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: new semiconductor conductors. 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Arizona touches everything. 23 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 3: For us, it does. And also Arizona water seems to 24 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: touch everything. And I mean this came up in the 25 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: Chase Emerson episode, but I remember I asked someone from 26 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 3: the Biden administration about it as well. But you know, 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: why are we building these big factories, semiconductor factories that 28 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: use a lot of water in the desert. Why are 29 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 3: we developing lots of land in the desert. Why are 30 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 3: we farming a bunch of water intensive stuff in the desert? 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 4: Yeah? 32 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: Right, this is how it goes in people's head. They're 33 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: booming in Arizona, there's water scarcity, and then they discover 34 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: that Arizona, despite being the desert, seventy five percent of 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: the water used in Arizona is agriculture. And they go, what, 36 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: that's crazy. 37 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: Why are we built? 38 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: Why are we growing food or growing grains or crops 39 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: in the desert. And people say, oh, well that's the problem. 40 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: We just need to stop growing in the desert. And 41 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: the conversation ends there. But obviously all of these things 42 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: are like way more complicated than like the five seconds 43 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: it takes you to reach that conclusion. 44 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: I'm very curious how this became a thing, Like how 45 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: did agriculture become a big part of the Arizona economy, 46 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: and why, in particular does it seem like we are 47 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: farming water intensive crops in an area where water nowadays 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 3: seems to be a concern, And maybe that's the key. 49 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: It didn't used to be as much of a concern 50 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: and now it is. But I am very interested in 51 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 3: hearing this side of the story. 52 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: I think they've always sort of wondered, like, what's the 53 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: deal with agriculture in the middle of the desert. Anyway, 54 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: we literally have the perfect guest, because as you mentioned, 55 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: it's been going on for a long time. We have 56 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: the perfect guest. We're going to be speaking with Trevor Bales. 57 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: He is a six generation farmer in Arizona. He runs 58 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: bales Hay Farm and Ranch, which grows elfelf like. He's 59 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: based in Buckeye, Arizona, in the southwest part of the state. 60 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: We're going to talk all about the history, the operations, 61 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: the water usage, all of these things about growing el 62 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: felfa in the desert. So, Trevor, thank you so much 63 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: for coming on. 64 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 4: Odd lots, Hi guy, it's great to be here. 65 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: Can I ask you a really obnoxious question? Yeah, to start, 66 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: Bales like, so people are gonna like this their guest 67 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: is made up. 68 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 3: The nominative determined the farmer. 69 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: In Arizona's last name is Bales. Like you might you 70 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: cannot be real. 71 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 4: No, we did not change her name. It's been bales before. 72 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 4: It was bales of alfalfa, was bales of cotton, so 73 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 4: still a bail. 74 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: That is a very incredible So sixth generation from an 75 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Arizona talk to us about like the beginning of your 76 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: family's history. I guess as a farming family in Alzona. 77 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 4: My family that homestead in Arizona. Their last name was 78 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 4: actually BLOATD. B. E. L. O At the Bloat family, Okay, 79 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 4: And they came out here as cattle ranchers, and the 80 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 4: cattle ranching turned into farming and cattle, and then it 81 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 4: turned into a feed lot and farming. The farm supplied 82 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 4: the feed lot, and then it transitioned into only farming. 83 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 4: Now that's over a span of one hundred twenty plus years, 84 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 4: but that's in a nutshell. So they came over here. Man, 85 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 4: my great great great great grandpa, I think you had 86 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 4: fourteen kids or something. So we currently farm one thousand acres, which, 87 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 4: if you think about it, we're very lucky to have 88 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 4: that many acres when it's been split so many different 89 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 4: times between children and family. We're lucky to have that. 90 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 4: But they came in eighteen twenties, but the homestead in 91 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 4: eighteen ninety one, so before Arizona was even a state. 92 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: My great great great grandpa was integral in building the 93 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 4: canal district that we currently use for irrigating our crops. 94 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 4: So we have an extremely long history. One of our 95 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 4: cattle brands is actually in the top one of the 96 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 4: first I think it's like a four hundred and fiftieth 97 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 4: or four hundred and forty something with cattle brand. So 98 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: we've been here a very long time, have a deep 99 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: history wow in the state. And then along the way, 100 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 4: my great grandpa Wallace Bales married Alberta Belote. Him and 101 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 4: his son, my grandpa Steve, purchased the farm from the 102 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 4: in laws and became the Bales Farm. 103 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 3: Let me ask a super basic question, which is, you 104 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: know a lot of people I think they hear alfalfa 105 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: and if they're not out in the country, they're thinking 106 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: about those little alfalfa sprouts that you might get on 107 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: your salads or is it garnish or something like that. 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: But talk to us about what alfalfa actually is and 109 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: the role that it plays. In agriculture. 110 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 4: So, alfalfa is a very very unique plant. It's a forage. 111 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: It has great relative feed value properties or protein properties. 112 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: It's very good for making high quality milk. It's very 113 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: good for making high quality beef. What makes it so 114 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 4: unique is its heartiness, especially for what we do. Now 115 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 4: this changes across the country because Arizona is much like 116 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: a greenhouse effect I've kind of compared it to. Because 117 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 4: of our temperature, we are in the field eight to 118 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 4: twelve times a year. We're in there cutting that alfalfa. Now, 119 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 4: there is no other crop other than grass, and even 120 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 4: grass does not have the feed qualities that of alfalfa 121 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 4: has that you can go in there and cut multiple 122 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 4: times in a year and then for several years after that. 123 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 4: We can keep an alfalfa stand in for four to 124 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 4: five years, where other states where they're only in there 125 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 4: cutting their crop two or three times, they can leave 126 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: it in six, seven, eight years. But because of that, 127 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 4: because that alfalfa stays in for so long, it gets 128 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: a bad reputation as to what you were talking about earlier, 129 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 4: as water people call it a very high intensive water 130 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 4: use crop. Well, a lot is being left out. That 131 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: crop stays in. It's a very efficient crop when you 132 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 4: look at all the work that goes into it. We 133 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 4: plant it and we leave it in for four to 134 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 4: five years, so it is producing great feed quality for cattle, horses, 135 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 4: milk cows, beef cows for years. No other crop can 136 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 4: do that. Corn you plant it once, it takes a 137 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 4: massive amount of water, and then you harvest it once. 138 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 4: That's so silage. 139 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,119 Speaker 3: It's basically a perennial, right, like it keeps coming back. 140 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, absolutely correct, yes, but it does go down 141 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 4: in value. Where we do take it out, the yields 142 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 4: aren't as good. So after about the fourth fifth year, 143 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 4: we'll see the yields will go down and we will 144 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 4: take the field out. We'll apply manure to it for 145 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 4: the fertilizer and go through the whole process, and usually 146 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: we'll try to have a rotation crop in between it 147 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: as well. 148 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: But just this gets to the key question, and I 149 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: feel like I sort of jumped right to it, so. 150 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 4: People look, no, no, I did jump to it quick, No. 151 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: No, no, But this is really I think, sort of 152 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: the key of the argument, which is that you can 153 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: grow elf elfa elsewhere outside of Arizona. But the point 154 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: that you're trying to make is that there's something about 155 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: the uniqueness of the Arizona climate. So, setting aside the 156 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: water issue, Yeah, there's something about the Arizona climate specifically 157 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: that gets you several turns in a year. 158 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 4: Do you know the five seas of Arizona. 159 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: No, but I can't wait to learn them. 160 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 4: So right, So, and that back to like the history 161 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 4: of why are they farming in Arizona. Water and agriculture 162 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 4: was were never a hot topic in Arizona until Phoenix 163 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 4: got to be fourth, fifth, sixth largest city in the country. Right, 164 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: We've been farming here for for like I just said, 165 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 4: my head foumb was here in the eighteen twenties doing it. 166 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 4: So the water was never a problem until humans came in. 167 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 4: Cities came in, manufacturing came in. Farming actually paid for 168 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 4: a lot of the water that is here in Phoenix 169 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 4: Salt River SRP. The city couldn't afford it, so the 170 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 4: farmers came in and they paid for the water system 171 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 4: and now the city is using it. But anyways, back 172 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: to the five seeds. Yeah, one of the climate. Because 173 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 4: our climate copper, cattle, citrus, and cotton, Arizona makes some 174 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 4: of the best cotton in the world. We make the 175 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 4: best outfoufro in the world. We make some of the 176 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 4: best wheat and barley, and we make some of the 177 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 4: best corn in the world. It's because of our climate. 178 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 4: And so, like you said, alfalfa can be grown other places, 179 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: but the quality is nowhere near the same and it 180 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: can't be grown everywhere. That not all the climates can 181 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 4: grow alf alfa. 182 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: So one thing I read, and again I'm not a farmer, 183 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 3: so I'm just reading trying to read various things on 184 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,239 Speaker 3: this topic. But one thing I read was that farmers 185 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: in Arizona like alfalfa because it's reliable and because it 186 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 3: grows well in that environment, provided there's enough water around. 187 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: Is that the right way of thinking about it? 188 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, But that's I mean, that's any crop, right, We're 189 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: just like the industry of farming is industry and what 190 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 4: is supplying? What is demand? Right? Well, cotton used to 191 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 4: be the demand. Citrus used to be the demand, and 192 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 4: unfortunately the demand with the mills in China and China's 193 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 4: rules about importing cotton, Cotton's no longer demand. So they 194 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 4: go to was the big demand, which right now there 195 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 4: are a lot of dairies around, and the dairies need 196 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 4: a lot of protein to make high quality milk, which 197 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 4: we actually ship all over the world from this area, 198 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 4: and alfalfa is the most efficient way to make high 199 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 4: quality milk. If they think water is a problem, now, 200 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: if every farmer grew corn for the dairies, holy smokes, 201 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 4: there wouldn't cotton corn corn man corny uses a lot 202 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 4: of water. So yes, yes and no what you said? 203 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 4: Yes and no. Yes we like it, but for those 204 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 4: same reasons, any other crop is the same thing. 205 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: So in the end, whether we're growing alfalfa, whether we're 206 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: growing corn, I guess whether we're growing soy other things 207 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: Like there's like a certain math, right, there's a certain 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: amount of water, there's a certain amount of human labor, 209 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: you get a certain amount of feed. At the end, 210 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: those go to feed cows and then the cows either 211 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: become beef before they become for milk. Can you talk 212 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: a little bit further about like, okay, you say like corn. 213 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 1: That would be much worse if we switched to replacing 214 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: elfelfa with corn, Like how does the math work out? 215 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: What are we talking about? 216 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: Well? 217 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: Lost with that repas. 218 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 4: And I've never grown corn myself, but my dad used 219 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 4: to grow quite a bit. My grandfather would for our 220 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: own feed lot. By the time I came along, we 221 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 4: don't grow as much. But the corn crop in a 222 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: short like one hundred and twenty day corn uses approximately 223 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 4: the same amount of water as my whole year, my 224 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 4: whole year of the crop about falca, which is around 225 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 4: seven seven acre foot as we like committed with by 226 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 4: acre feet six to seven acre feet. But now where 227 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 4: I don't know, because you would have to get a nutritionist, 228 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 4: is in that same acre of ground of soil that 229 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 4: one harvest of corn. What energy does it produce versus alfalfa? 230 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 4: And that I don't know that part. Just man, I'm 231 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: just not not in the dairy market at all. I'm 232 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 4: not well. Let me ask mart Let. 233 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: Me ask you another question. Let me ask you another question. 234 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: Then that's sort of related. So you say, like Arizona 235 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: elfelfa is better than elfelfa elsewhere? 236 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: How much you talk us through that a little bit more? 237 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: What is better about growing it in Arizona versus other 238 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: parts of this country because it has grown elsewhere in 239 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: this country? So is it the quality of the product, 240 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: or is it the yield or the amount of turns 241 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: that you can get in a year from the same 242 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: amount of land. 243 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: And then like we have to talk us through. 244 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 4: The differences, it's most of the quality. So a lot 245 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: of other states, so we average, we average about nine 246 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 4: tons per acre for the year. Depending on the soil type, 247 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 4: we can get nine to ten tons per year. Now, 248 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 4: but with that's with ten to twelve cuttings. A lot 249 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: of other states they can get seven to eight tons 250 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 4: per year, but that's on half the cuttings, and so 251 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 4: each cutting is making a massive amount of Hey. Each time, 252 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 4: the bigger the stand gets, the lower the quality gets. 253 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 4: It gets real big, it gets real kind of tough, 254 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 4: the stems get real big. And with that size. What's 255 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 4: extremely important about alfalfa for a few reasons. One, if 256 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 4: you bail it with too much moisture, the bail will 257 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 4: it will start to mold, it will go bad. It 258 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 4: can also I don't know if you've ever heard of 259 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: a hay fire, but if it has too much moisture 260 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 4: and all the pressure in that baler when they're packing 261 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 4: the bail and you store it creates heat from the 262 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 4: moisture inside and whatever is inside the bail, and it'll 263 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 4: catch on fire. So the dry down process, the curing 264 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 4: process is extremely important. And a lot of the country 265 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 4: they don't have the climate we have, so they're fighting 266 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 4: a lot more weather when we fight. And so the 267 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 4: fact that we're able to get it dried down and 268 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 4: to cure and then also not have these massive two 269 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 4: or three ton cuttings, Like when you cut alfalfa that's 270 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 4: two tons or more, it's so big and thick, and 271 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 4: it's hard to get it to cure out. Well, we 272 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 4: go in there every thirty days or less, twenty five 273 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 4: to thirty days we cut it. It's nice, it's small, 274 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 4: and it's thinned out, and it dries and it cures 275 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 4: very pretty, and it keeps a lot of color, and 276 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 4: it keeps the leaf. The leaf is the important part 277 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 4: of that plant. That's where all the nutrition is. And 278 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 4: a lot of these other places have to flip it 279 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: two or three times. Oh it's not dried enough. Let's 280 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 4: flip it over. You just got to get the bottom 281 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: to dry out, because when you cut it, it's laying 282 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 4: there on the ground. Well, the part that's up against 283 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 4: the ground of the of the alfalfa stand. It's not 284 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: seeing the sun ever, it's down there underneath the super 285 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 4: thick alfalfa. So then they flip it over all right, 286 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: now you dried out that side, well, darn it. And 287 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 4: then a rainstorm came, we got to flip it back 288 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 4: over again because now that side's wet. And so they 289 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 4: just don't produce the quality that we produce or the 290 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 4: connage too. And with the rest of the country, a 291 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 4: lot of the country does rely on we call it 292 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: dry land farming, where they do rely on rain. When 293 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 4: there's a drought across the country, Arizona fills that gap. 294 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 4: And when there's too much, like there's been years where 295 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: Idaho or Texas and Texas a huge market, they have 296 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 4: so much rain they cannot get in their fields and 297 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: they cannot harvest it. So guess what, it's almost the 298 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 4: same problem as having the drought, right, you still can't 299 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 4: you don't get anything out of your fields, and so 300 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 4: Arizona fills in that gap. 301 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,479 Speaker 3: So I take the point about you know, it's easier 302 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 3: to cure given the dry or weather, and you know, 303 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: maybe it's producing more higher quality alfalfa, But how much 304 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: does the quality actually matter? Because doesn't most of this 305 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 3: go to cows for feeds like do the cows care 306 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 3: about the color of the alfalfa hey that they're eating. 307 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 4: My specific market is the horse market, so people with 308 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 4: horses that have anywhere from I mean, we've fed horses 309 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 4: that are been in the Kentucky Derby. We sent a 310 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 4: hay to Florida where there's soup, where there's horses that 311 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 4: fly on private jets back and forth from other countries 312 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 4: for breeding purposes and racing. I don't know what they don't. 313 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 4: I'm not much of a horse person, but yes, to 314 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 4: them it is extremely important. And even back to the 315 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 4: cattle side, yes, it's important because that feed value changes, 316 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 4: and that feed value is extremely important. The older the 317 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 4: hay gets, the lower the feed value goes down. That 318 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 4: feed value is in direct connection to the quality of 319 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: milk that the cow produces. So visual quality for horse 320 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 4: people is extremely important. Then test quality for cattle, for 321 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: milk cows is extremely important, and beef not so much. 322 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 4: For beef, I mean, you can think lower quality hay 323 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 4: is fine, but once it's laying in the field and 324 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 4: it gets rained on, that does take the quality away 325 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: for both milk cows and or horses. And back to 326 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 4: the even that feed quality for specifically horses that are 327 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 4: race horses, ropers, barrel racing horses that they need that 328 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 4: high protein to be able to compete with whether they're 329 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 4: doing so. Equality is very important. And there's a lot 330 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 4: of people that have horses just as pets and they 331 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 4: never ride them. They just like having a horse. In 332 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: that situation, it's just not important. 333 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 3: Let me ask another basic how it works question, which 334 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: is how do you actually water the alfalfa? So we 335 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: talked about harvesting and curing, but what does the watering 336 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: process actually look like? And you mentioned that I think 337 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 3: one of your grandparents had built canals on your farm 338 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 3: that you presumably use for irrigation. Is that what you're doing? 339 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 4: So that's crazy. With all this water stuff, Arizona has 340 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: less acres than it's ever had and we're more efficient 341 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 4: than we've ever been. But so the Healer River we 342 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 4: farm right off the Healer River, now the Healer River. 343 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 4: They used to call it the Grand or the Mighty Fruit. 344 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 4: They called it something Healer River, and there was always water. 345 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 4: So they started this canal that was upriver and then 346 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: the water would come in on this canal and it 347 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 4: would and they kind of followed the man it's amazing 348 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 4: the way they did it back then and how they 349 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 4: were able to find without GPS the high points of 350 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 4: this little valley we're in, and they kind of followed 351 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 4: the spine of this little valley. And so there's that 352 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 4: main canal that feeds water to all the farmers that 353 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 4: are within the district. So we're very closely measured on 354 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 4: how much water we use. People like to imagine we're 355 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 4: just using it as much water as we can. We 356 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: are not at all. We get cut off if we 357 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 4: use too much. You can't just do whatever you want, 358 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: so the district manages that water. That water goes along 359 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: farmers like myself. I will order water a specific amount 360 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 4: for a time, and then we'll go down a lateral 361 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 4: ditch that feeds off the canal, and that lateral ditch 362 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 4: will then will then carry water to the ditch that 363 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 4: connects to my fields. Now, all of our fields are 364 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 4: laser leveled, so they're flat side to side with a 365 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 4: end fall. So there's a little bit of geometry involved 366 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 4: with the farming. So when you open the water in 367 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 4: that designated area of the field, which might be one 368 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 4: hundred and twenty foot wide quarter mile long, very evenly 369 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 4: from side to side, so you're covering the whole thing 370 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: and that makes it very efficient work versus if you 371 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 4: didn't have it flat, the water would just go all 372 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 4: different areas. Like I said, it's section. You know, one 373 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: hundred acre field is sectioned off in one hundred and 374 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 4: twenty foot sections. So we're using a gradual decline in 375 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: the land or fall to measure that specific area efficiently. 376 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 4: And that's specifically how I irrigate. But what has become 377 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 4: a very efficient way of irrigation is subsurface drip, which 378 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 4: is becoming pretty popular in Arizona. Sistic I'd like to 379 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: do it, It's just expensive. 380 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 2: What is that do it? 381 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 4: That's where everything is underground, and so you were you're 382 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 4: saving on evaporation, but you were getting that water directly 383 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 4: to the root. I mean you were just hitting that 384 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 4: root with water, so there's no evaporation. It's which evaporation 385 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: is not as much as people like to argue all evaporation. 386 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 4: We've done studies. It's like two percent or less. It's 387 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 4: it's very very low. 388 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: This is this is my dream for my garden. Is 389 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: a sister a system of underwater irrigation. 390 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: Instead of Yeah, amateur gardeners do that. Yeah, yeah you can't. 391 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: I mean, like it would take a lot. But for instance, 392 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 3: we at the moment we have a bunch of underground 393 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: like hoses and pipelines going through two and a half 394 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 3: acres and they're all leaking. So that's fun. So maybe 395 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: I actually already have subterranean irrigation in a way. 396 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you anticipated, Trevor a question I was going to ask, 397 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: which is about advances in water use technology over time, 398 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: and I have to imagine maybe there are some similarities, 399 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: but as you mentioned, it's gotten more efficient probably relative 400 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: to when you know your ancestors were on the same land. 401 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: How does it look differently? 402 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: What are some of the advances that have been made 403 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: since some of your ancestors were farming on the same 404 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: land to get better output with less water. 405 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: That laser system has been huge. What they what they 406 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 4: used to do is everything was in furrows, which a 407 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 4: furrow is it's like a washboard, like an old washboard. 408 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 4: Washboard is, yes, but then it runs the water would 409 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,479 Speaker 4: run down there by having all those furrows. I mean, 410 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 4: if you can imagine if you've got like a relatively 411 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 4: flat area and you just open the water up. The 412 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 4: water is gonna follow the way of least resistance, so 413 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 4: you're just gonna have this water go right down that 414 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 4: one area and then all that everything else is dry. 415 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 4: So what they did back then is they would do 416 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 4: these furrows and then and then that then see you 417 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 4: have all these these low like a washboard. The water 418 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 4: would stay in the low spots and then but then 419 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 4: everything would get watered. But it was just not very efficient. 420 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 4: It was rough, It was hard on equipment, and the 421 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 4: planter or the furrow maker. Man, they're they're heavy, they're 422 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 4: just how they're there. And then before GPS, so you 423 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 4: still weren't very straight man. And the fact that they 424 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 4: thought of that was it was great right like man 425 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 4: back then that they that they saw that insight, like hey, 426 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 4: let's make these washboards if you will, and the water 427 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 4: is hitting all areas, which is impressive. And then they 428 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 4: came up with the laser system and now they use 429 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 4: the GPS system. But what we have what is very 430 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 4: foreign to pretty much every state except California and Arizona, 431 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 4: there's a few other places, is we call them borders. 432 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 4: It's a dirt ridge that runs from the top of 433 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 4: the field to the bottom of the field. And that's 434 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 4: earlier I was talking about sectioning off your field to irrigate. 435 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 4: You run a border from top to bottom and it's 436 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 4: two about two feet tall, and then you go over 437 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 4: and it depends because every field does have natural sidefall, 438 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 4: but the goal is to between those two borders get 439 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 4: rid of that because you want that water to flow evenly. 440 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 4: You know, two inches deep across that whole one hundred 441 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 4: or however many feet you know, one hundred and or 442 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 4: ninth sixty feet. If it's a steep field, then you 443 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 4: have a bunch of sixty feet borders. If it's a 444 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 4: steep field, you have a fewer one hundred and twenty 445 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 4: plus borders. But that laser leveling has been an amazing 446 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 4: tool for running irrigation extremely efficient. Like I said, we 447 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 4: open up the area on that little section one hundred 448 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 4: and twenty foot by quarter mile, and that water runs, 449 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 4: like I said, two inches deep or less just the 450 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 4: length of that and I mean you imagine it looks 451 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 4: like it's like one hundred and twenty foot That water 452 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 4: is just going just even with itself all the way 453 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 4: it gets down to the bottom of the field. You 454 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 4: shut it off and it just kind of drains itself 455 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 4: right there. It just kind of stops right there. I mean, 456 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 4: if you have irrigators that aren't paying attention and they'll 457 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 4: fall asleep, then they'll mess up. But when everything's going correctly, man, 458 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 4: it's just so efficient and so smooth, so that that 459 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 4: laser system has been probably the best most efficient way. Okay, 460 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: I should say the best, probably the most efficient way 461 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 4: just because what it costs to do versus the subsurface 462 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 4: drip is definitely the most efficient way. But oh it 463 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 4: costs depending on like with oil prices where they are, 464 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 4: and yeah, and like PBC, everything is, everything is petroleum based. 465 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 4: So right now it's probably three thousand or more dollars 466 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 4: per acre to put all that in. When petroleum based 467 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 4: things are cheaper, you can two thousand dollars an acre 468 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 4: used to be the kind of the number. Well, when 469 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 4: you're looking at bigger farms, four thous an acre farm. 470 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's real quick. 471 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 3: So let me ask a question that kind of like 472 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: cuts to the heart of a lot of this discussion, 473 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: But how real or salient our concerns over water for 474 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: you right now? Like, have you witnessed water shortages during 475 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: your time as a farmer, has it affected your business? 476 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 3: Are you getting perhaps more pressures from you know, external 477 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 3: sources to reduce your water use? How is it actually 478 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 3: playing out for you? 479 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 4: So, for us, it's kind of unique. Right where we 480 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 4: farm where the area they call a water logged area 481 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 4: with extremely extremely salty water, and a lot of the 482 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 4: water that we specifically use for the past one hundred 483 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 4: years has come from Phoenix water treatment plant. Where I farm, 484 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 4: we're not allowed to grow produced because it comes from 485 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 4: water treatment. We don't get water from the Colorado River, 486 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 4: I don't get water from the Salt River Project. Water 487 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,959 Speaker 4: comes from eastern Arizona as the rains come down and 488 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 4: it trickles down the Salt River and it comes into 489 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 4: the Hila River and it keeps our aquifer very full 490 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 4: of water rather but our water is so salty. And 491 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 4: then then taking the water from the paying the city 492 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 4: for their water back before Phoenix was a big city. 493 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 4: They loved that we took their water. And so we've 494 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 4: never really had a right where eye farm specifically. Anyways, 495 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 4: we've never had a fear of losing our water until 496 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 4: with technology, the water treatment plants have gotten really good 497 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 4: at cleaning water and desalinization plants. They look our no 498 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 4: one ever wanted our water. They're like, no, no, we 499 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 4: don't want your water. It's disgusting, it's super salty. We 500 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 4: can't use it for anything. Like we're glad you guys 501 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 4: are actually using it, because if you weren't, this place 502 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 4: would be almost like a swamp down here, Like there 503 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 4: are areas if you can drive with the ground is 504 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 4: always slightly muddy, and that's because that water's like three 505 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 4: or four feet underground. It's just right down there. And 506 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 4: so they love that we're farming it, pumping it up 507 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 4: the ground and using it because they don't want to 508 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 4: deal with with the swamp. I guess I'm not not 509 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 4: a literal swamp. But what's also changed a lot years 510 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 4: ago they brought in a tree called a salt cedar tree, 511 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 4: and it's from I think it's from Africa, the Middle East. 512 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 4: I don't rember where it's from, but it's not native 513 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 4: to Arizona. And this tree uses a lot of water 514 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 4: and it has overgrown the Heala River or the river 515 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 4: I just told you I farmed on and it uses 516 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 4: a lot of water. And since that tree has been 517 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 4: brought in and it's infested the river and even the desert. 518 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 4: The water doesn't flow down the Hala River very much anymore, 519 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 4: it rarely does it. Senator seen a cur she's been 520 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: pushing and other people then pushing. Let's clean out this 521 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 4: non native invasive tree that uses a lot of water. 522 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 4: But the animal rights are like, oh there's owls and 523 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 4: stuff living in there, and butterflies or something so big picture. 524 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Okay, maybe your firm specifically is in a position where 525 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: it's not for historically a lot of the water that 526 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: used no one else wanted it. Do you feel like 527 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: at some point, like for your industry, and I'm sure 528 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: you talk to other farmers like this is coming to 529 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: a head, like, okay, there is this much water that 530 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: can be used for agriculture. There's household demand, there's industrial demand. 531 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: Like is someone gonna have to give. 532 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 4: Here, Yes, somewhere it is gonna have to get I 533 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: guess I didn't finish my other thoughts your question. With 534 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 4: desalinization plants, people are now looking at our water thinking, 535 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 4: oh huh, there's a bunch of water right there that 536 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 4: these farmer farmers have that we can have. And now 537 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 4: that the city is good at cleaning the water, they're 538 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 4: looking at it thinking, oh, maybe we'll just go buy 539 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: this water from the farmers. Once they're they're one hundred 540 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 4: year deal pop ends with the city. So that is 541 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 4: a fear of ours, yes, and so then yes, to 542 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 4: your point, we do realize that there's something's gonna have 543 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 4: to give. And there used to be good laws in 544 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 4: place about where you could build because it is a desert. 545 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 4: The idea back and you'd have to go back and 546 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 4: look at the history and judgments and stuff, but they 547 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 4: said you you had to build where you could have water. Well, 548 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 4: then it got real fishy because the thought was as 549 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 4: home builders and manufacturing bought property from farmers, that water 550 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 4: would then go from a farmer to a house. So 551 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 4: you're you just traded from one this industry to another. 552 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 4: Well then the water laws up, and you know, over 553 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 4: my pay grade in the city started, Oh, well, technically 554 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 4: we could send water up to this real pretty area 555 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 4: over here where in the mountains where they want to 556 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 4: build some houses. Then all of a sudden water gets 557 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 4: sent another way. Oh there's a freeway up here. It 558 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 4: sure would be nice to have buildings and stuff next 559 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 4: to the freeway. Well, so then they started buying buying 560 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 4: property in the desert and building in the desert, and 561 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 4: they kind of skipped around the farm ground and then there, 562 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 4: and now everyone's wondering like, oh, now we're low on water. Well, 563 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 4: eighty years ago, when they kind of looked ahead to 564 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 4: the future, they said, well, if we trade farm ground 565 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 4: for housing and development, the water just changes traded hands. Well, 566 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: then I said, I don't know, it happened before my time, 567 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 4: but some water rules were changed, and that's where it 568 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 4: gets pretty fishy. And that, to me, that's the real story. 569 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 4: Who changes water rules? I mean, if I said the 570 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 4: farmers didn't change a rule. We've been here farming for 571 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 4: over one hundred we're farming less acres than ever. But 572 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 4: so there are some things that kind of change that'd 573 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 4: be interesting to get the full story on that, because like, yeah, 574 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 4: there's big housing developments up in these areas that are 575 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 4: very arid. There's no water, there's no farming that ever 576 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 4: happened there. They just boom, let's throw in these several 577 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 4: thousand homes and neighborhoods and use a whole bunch of water. 578 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 3: So let me ask you, maybe a tough question, but 579 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: is there anything that would make you reconsider or maybe 580 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: rethink growing alfalfa, like what would be the conditions under 581 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 3: which that is no longer either desirable or profitable for you. 582 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 4: It's just like any other industry, right, I mean a 583 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 4: car manufacturer, what would make them want to stop manufacturing cars? 584 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 4: It's all market based. As long as we have water 585 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 4: and soil, you know, I can grow whatever the market 586 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 4: is asking. We don't. I don't grow alfalfa because that's 587 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 4: what I want to grow. It's that's what the market 588 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 4: asks for. 589 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes sense. 590 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 4: Let me ask you. I mean it's all it's all 591 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 4: based on, you know, paying my bills? What what what 592 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 4: pays my bills? And right now it's alfalfa. Do you 593 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 4: have if cotton came back and cotton was was back 594 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 4: to being king bays that you say, cotton is king 595 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, cotton was what what the mills wanted, 596 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 4: what the markets we're calling for? Man would grow cotton. 597 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: I just realized your road is on below road. 598 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: So that's the family. That's the family name. 599 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: Have any homebuilders because when we talked to when we 600 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: talked about Arizona Land, they're talking about well a lot 601 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: of the what is you know, where home builders build 602 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: was formerly agricultural land. Is your area an area in 603 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: which at some point our home builders potentially trying to 604 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: bid on your land? Or is there ever a point 605 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: where the economics in your area could be such that 606 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: a home builder would find more value from it and 607 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: writing you a big check than growing at alfalfa? 608 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's yeah. Right now, we're about ten miles from 609 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 4: the freeway, and so that's what kind of keeps that 610 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 4: from happening. But there's a bunch of plans of a 611 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 4: of a like a reliever freeway coming through our area. 612 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 4: And I mean it's all about transportation. Right any anywhere, 613 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 4: it generally relates directly to transportation, and when you're far 614 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 4: away from a freeway or whatever something that's around you, 615 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 4: it's all related to that. That's why all of the 616 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 4: growth has happened around the freeway I Interstate ten, I seventeen, 617 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 4: I seventeen, or I say two oh two over here. 618 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 4: It's all based around the one on one the freeways, 619 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 4: and we're about eight to ten miles off the freeway. 620 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 4: So if we were right on the freeway, yeah, they'd 621 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 4: be knocking on the door. But it's all based on transportation. 622 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: So I just have one last question, and I guess 623 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: it's sort of open ended, But we started this about 624 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: all these debates that happened about water use in Arizona. Well, 625 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: it's sort of like the one thing that you think 626 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: people are missing big picture when they discuss this, and like, 627 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: what's sort of like the one thing you would like 628 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: more people to understand about the distribution of water in Arizona. 629 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 4: I guess I said it earlier. Water was never an 630 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 4: issue until the city got as big as it was. 631 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: We're farming in the state less acres than we've ever farmed, 632 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 4: We're using less water than we've ever used, and we're 633 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 4: more efficient than we've ever been. And so as the 634 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 4: city gets bigger, now water is an issue. As you 635 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 4: guys talked about earlier, why they're building these chip manufacturing 636 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 4: plants in Arizona want to build them somewhere, They don't 637 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 4: have to build them here. We farm here. We farm 638 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 4: here because this is the only place in the United 639 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 4: States you can farm like this this in parts of 640 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 4: central California. That's it. You can't farm like this. 641 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: When you saywhere else, when you say like. 642 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 4: This year round and produce the quality of crops that 643 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 4: we produce. I mean, there's things we can't grow here 644 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 4: but that they grow all over the Midwest, which is 645 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 4: why they grow them there. I could go farm somewhere 646 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 4: else by farming a different crop, I guess without Arizona. 647 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 4: And really the scary one is California. If you ever 648 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 4: look up how much milk or produce the Central Valley 649 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 4: California produces. Oh my gosh, if they lose their water, 650 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 4: everything we eat, vegetable or produce related is going to 651 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 4: come from another country and it's going to be sprayed 652 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 4: with every nasty chemical to kill every single bug that 653 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 4: ever lived so they can sell it to the United 654 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 4: States because we got rid of all the water or 655 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 4: the farming in California. That's what scares me. Yeah, I 656 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 4: love Arizona, it's where I farm, but for the sake 657 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 4: of our country, California scares me the most. Holy if 658 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 4: we lose Central Valley farming. But anyways, we've been doing 659 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 4: this for over one hundred years here and it was 660 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 4: it never been an issue until the city got really big. 661 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: Trevor Bales of bells Hay Farm really appreciate you coming 662 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: on a really good perspective. 663 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 4: I thought we're going to talk about alfalfa markets. That's 664 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 4: what's interesting to me. 665 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 2: What did we miss on alfalfa markets? 666 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 4: So most other markets are trackable and have the cotton market, 667 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 4: the wheat market, the farley market, there's the corn market. 668 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 4: Alfalfa is like you talk about I want to talk 669 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 4: about like the wild West of markets. It's I mean, 670 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 4: it's so similar. 671 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 3: To the stock market, futures or anything. 672 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 4: No, there aren't and so like every other like like beef, 673 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 4: but like everything like alfalfa. So like right now, actually 674 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 4: we are in a crazy I mean, it's just falling 675 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 4: like a rock. 676 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 3: There is an alfalfa producer price in yeah, and so. 677 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 2: What's going on there? 678 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 4: The United States has exported its agriculture things for as 679 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 4: long as once boats were. Once we started shipping stuff 680 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 4: out of the country, we've been exporting so forever. So 681 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 4: we export a lot of hay out of the country. 682 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 4: Those exporters last year and the year before that, for 683 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 4: some reason, came in swinging real hard, wanting to buy 684 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 4: a lot of alfalfa. This is all over the country too. 685 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 4: They buy out like all of the West Coast, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona. 686 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 4: They buy a lot. So they came in swinging and 687 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 4: it they raised the price up. I remember three hundred 688 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 4: used to be the high number, and this is per Ton. Well, 689 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 4: I always think of things per Ton. I think, wow, wow, 690 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 4: that hay was sold for two hundred and eighty five 691 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 4: dollars a ton. Wow, maybe one day we'll hit three hundred. Wow. Well, 692 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 4: in less than a year it went from three hundred 693 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 4: to four hundred dollars a ton, and then it went 694 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 4: upwards of like three sixty ton or four sixty a ton. 695 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 4: So it went way up there, which is very high. 696 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 4: But then this year they came back in and they're 697 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 4: not buying. Well, everyone got this start off the year 698 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 4: again with this false thinking it was going to be 699 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 4: high again. And so I have to buy a lot 700 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 4: of hay because of the luck we've run a successful 701 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 4: business and we sell a lot of hay to all 702 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 4: over the country. All my hay stays local. It doesn't 703 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 4: get exported. It stays here in the US, and so 704 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 4: we harvest all our stuff. Then I harvest other people's 705 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 4: hey and I buy it from them. Well, they are 706 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 4: looking at what they think the market is the beginning 707 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 4: of the year, and they're well we think that, you know, 708 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 4: it's still three three thirty three forty. Okay, So here 709 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 4: we are in March and April harvesting hay and paying 710 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 4: three forty for it, three three thirty three forty, and 711 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 4: then as it's been going, it's just this crazy, uneasy 712 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 4: nobody knows and you're all these weird numbers, and the 713 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 4: exporters aren't buying, and all of a sudden, now so 714 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 4: I purchased Hey two months go for three hundred and 715 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 4: forty dollars a ton. I think I'm going to purchase 716 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 4: Hey this month for one hundred and ninety five dollars 717 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 4: a ton, which I guess if you don't understand, that's 718 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 4: a huge swing, yeah, in our industry, from one to 719 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 4: the other. And it's just such an interesting market, I mean, 720 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 4: especially in the stock market and all the movies you watch, 721 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 4: like it's it's all about what how, what do you? 722 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 4: What do you think? What does this guy think? You know? 723 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 4: Where it doesn't necessarily matter what's really happening, it's what 724 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,919 Speaker 4: is your perception and what does what do people think 725 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 4: is going to happen? And so everyone starts making decisions 726 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 4: on what they think is going to happen, and everyone 727 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 4: thought the market was going to stay high. And I 728 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 4: mean to see it fall over one hundred dollars a 729 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 4: ton in a couple of months, I mean, that's that's crazy. 730 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: We needed a nail self futures market. Trevor, thank you 731 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: so much. I'm glad we got that context in the 732 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: sort of the current day of market swing. 733 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: But really appreciate you coming on online. 734 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks guys. 735 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was great. Thank you so much, Tracy. I 736 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: really like that conversation. 737 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot in there, but just 738 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: to start, you know, I like hearing about like the 739 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: technological advantages in irrigation and farming, like now how they 740 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: use lasers to make sure it's like perfectly flat and 741 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: stuff like that. 742 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 3: Got My husband got one of those to like measure 743 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 3: hanging pictures on the walls and like terrace slopes and 744 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 3: things like that, and he will not stop using it. 745 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 2: It looks very cool measuring the flatness of things. 746 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 3: A couple things stood out for me. So number one, 747 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 3: I think people here, oh, why are we farming alfalfa 748 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 3: in the desert? It makes no sense. But Trevor's point 749 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 3: about how it's actually easier to cure the alfalfa. Hey, 750 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 3: that makes a lot of sense to me. It doesn't 751 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 3: necessarily mean it's efficient from a water perspective, but you 752 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 3: could see why that would be beneficial if you're making 753 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 3: these giant rolls of dried grass essentially. And then the 754 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 3: other thing that struck me was, you know this idea 755 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 3: that a lot of the alfalfa is going to fancy horses. Yeah, 756 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 3: it does seem like horses kind of escape a lot 757 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 3: of climate change contribution scrutiny. Right, everyone always talks about 758 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 3: cows horses. 759 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: Someone is going to some horse person out there is 760 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 1: going to get really angry. 761 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 4: That's fine. 762 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 3: I think horses are an easier target. 763 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: I don't think there's many of them. 764 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: I don't think there is many of them. I don't 765 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: think there I mean, no offense to Trevor. I don't 766 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: think that and market is as crucial. But you know 767 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: what I think was interesting in a point that he 768 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: made that sort of like helped things click or does 769 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: he point out, you know, like in some places you'll 770 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: get drought, in some places you'll get sometimes you get flooding, right, 771 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: And so really, one thing about one thing that's nice 772 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: about that, it's consistent, it's consistent, it's predictable, right, and 773 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: so it's like, Okay, there are obviously drawbacks, such as 774 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: the fact that there is like you know, the water 775 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: is ambiguous, but you know what you're gonna get, and 776 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: so once you start from that standpoint, like you can 777 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: like get every on every other metric, Arizona is very 778 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: efficient for these crops. 779 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 3: Totally, And that was a perspective that we hadn't really 780 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 3: heard before. But again it's one of those things like, Okay, 781 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 3: it made sense for a long time, but as the 782 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 3: cities developed, to Trevor's point, as we build these semiconductor factories, 783 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 3: it does feel like decisions, tough decisions might need to 784 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 3: be made. 785 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, like maybe the answer is 786 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: to keep Arizona an agricultural powerhouse and not continue to 787 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: spread Phoenix as far as I can see, like we 788 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, everyone's moving to Phoenix, therefore we 789 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: need less agriculture. But it is good to get the 790 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: perspective of the people in the agriculture and say, yeah, 791 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: but why does Phoenix need to just keep growing in 792 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: all directions. 793 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 3: Or move the fabs elsewhere. 794 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:43,760 Speaker 2: Or move the fabs elsewhere? 795 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right. Shall we leave it there? 796 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 2: Let's leave it there. 797 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 3: This has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. 798 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 3: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at 799 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:53,720 Speaker 3: Tracy Alloway. 800 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me on Twitter 801 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: at the Stalwart. 802 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 2: Check out the instagram of our guests Tres. Check out 803 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 2: at bails. 804 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: Hey on Instagram, where he makes lots of interesting videos 805 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: about LFLFA farming in Arizona. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez 806 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: at Carmen Arman and dash Oll Bennett at dashbod. And 807 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: check out all of our podcasts at Bloomberg under the 808 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: handle at podcasts, and for more odd Laws content, go 809 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots, where we have transcripts, 810 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: a blog, and. 811 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 2: A newsletter that comes out every Friday. 812 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: And check out our discord where you can chat twenty 813 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: four to seven with fellow listeners about all this stuff. 814 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 1: There's even a water channel. 815 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 2: In there, and I'm sure we're gonna be talking about 816 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 2: this episode. 817 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: Go to discord dot gg slash Outlaws. 818 00:41:38,160 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, stood in in