WEBVTT - Checking Boxes 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:05.359 Wine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:12.480 You know, it's so annoying. What is that Mark only 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:18.080 comes on the show when something is like I just 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.920 had this feeling, Well here he comes, this little bobblehead. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.800 I know, but it's just whenever anything is like in 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.240 the press or which there's that I don't know what 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.960 I'm talking about there, but um, it's just I'm like, 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:36.320 I bet you Mark is going to be on the 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.640 show because he's just a digger. He likes to dig 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:40.720 and he likes to poke and he likes to proud 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.280 because he's a producer. It is. It's a fine line 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.280 I want and I don't want to impose myself in 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.120 the show and I'm not needed. I don't want to 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.000 be in the way, but there are times when some 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.960 prodding could help the situation, right yeah, Because I mean 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:04.280 I have seen some stories you have some very complimentary 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.800 thank you. That's so sweet. I haven't looked or noticed 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.240 at all. It's so great because she just doesn't pay 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.200 attention stuff. No, it's it's awesome. And living my life 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.760 as a single mom and having fun and um, just 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.039 you know, I stay on social media. I love it 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.120 and I'm over here, like that's smart. But I will 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.640 tell you that I did see one article that says 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.399 that you are a smoke So wait, I'm sorry, can 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.440 we what does that mean? Um my understanding? Well I 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.400 always go great to Urban Dictionary in this. Yeah, well 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.360 I should read you the actual definition of it. But 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.400 is it now? Is a smoke which I believe is 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:49.000 often short for a smoke show wow, And a smoke 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.200 show is a word to described someone so hot that 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.080 you basically see the smoke coming off. That's so good man. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.640 I got to get back on social media. I was 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.040 so nervous for a second. Was not going to me 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:07.400 in smoke show like trust me saying, um No, I 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.360 mean that's a lie to say. IM not on social media. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:14.360 I I just don't. Um I've I learned from the 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.239 divorce to not read comments because people are very mean, 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.480 and I think there's just so much misinformation out in 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.440 the world in general that it's it's um my, my 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:27.959 heart is always like but that's not true, and it's 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:32.720 like it takes so much energy to like defend or 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.760 it's just so funny. Everyone thinks they have it all 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.639 figured out. They know everything that goes on and they 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.760 just you know, so what can you do? You can't? 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.040 You just gotta let it, let it ride. Is it 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.240 a weird feeling that if you choose to comment on 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.960 the you know, if there are twenty articles this week, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.280 came on your podcast and said, uh, these aren't truer. Okay, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.000 well that's true. Whatever you said, it would create twenty 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.680 more articles and probably forty articles next week. Is that 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.480 a weird feeling that you have that kind of power 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.239 to create this stuff? You know? I know, I think 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.760 I think I've learned lessons of speaking, you know, and 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.280 I think, um, yeah, I don't have no comment on 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.200 being a smoke. Oh thank you. My comment is being 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.880 a smoke is that's I'm very flattered, So thank you. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:22.560 It's very sweets and um thanks Cat Hilcome. Okay, so, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:28.560 speaking of my best dam, we're going to Vegas because 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.799 I Heart Music Festival is back gambling. Yes, we're being 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.760 So we're doing a pre show podcast hosted by me 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.000 and my best friend Catherine is gonna be with me. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.200 It's gonna be a blast. Um. We're gonna have some 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:49.680 amazing artists and celebrities joining the show. We're gonna have 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:57.000 Tasha Adams, Chrissie Mets, Debbie Gibson, Joey McIntyre. Oh my god, 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:02.880 if I started singing any of his songs. Okay, thanks, Um, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:10.040 Donny Osmond, Maddie and Kenzie Ziel. You love dance moms 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.200 and I love Um, I love their mom. They're so 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:16.840 sweet nine degrees obsessed. Do you know that their Christmas 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.960 album is probably one of the best Christmas albums of 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.880 all time? So good? Um and Teddy Mellencamp who She's 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.200 My Girl? So um so and so many more. So 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:31.600 get your tickets today at on location live dot com 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:38.080 and let's have fun and get lucky in Vegas. Hey, Hey, Hi, Hi, 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.279 it's good lucky. Okay, Okay. We have a really exciting 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:47.520 guest that's coming on today, Pastor Cal. And he has 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:52.240 a book out called Marriage Ain't for Punks. And he's 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.240 also a mentor on Married at First Sight, which is 0:04:55.480 --> 0:05:00.800 Wednesday's on Lifetime Lifetime. Um. But I'm really pumped to 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.919 get him on and talk all things marriage. And actually 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:05.479 I think is in the waiting room now, so let's 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:23.480 bring him in. Hey, Pastor Cal, Hey, Janna, how are you? 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:25.479 I'm good, thank you? How are you I'm Janna and 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.000 this is my friend Catherine. Hi. Oh my goodness, I'm 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.640 so excited to have you on the show. Um. First 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.920 of all, I just your book. The title is just 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.479 fantastic because it's so true. Marriage is not for punks. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.920 You know the name for punks. It's hard, it's it's 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.000 it's it's not an easy thing. It's it's pretty tough. Actually, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.359 But do you know what, I'm possible and when it works, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.240 it works great, It works so well. How long have 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.720 you been married? For my wife and I we've been 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:05.080 married for We're gonna year, okay, Yeah, And we're very 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.640 open and honest with people. We tell them, you know, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.839 this is our we're second timer. As we get married 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.320 first time, very young and very dumb, and we made 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.159 a lot of mistakes. But this time it's it's still death. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.400 Do us part voluntarily or involuntarily. You're gonna have to 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.920 day to leave. Yeah. My ex said the same thing, 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.919 but he's not here anymore. It's fine, it's fine. I 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.880 think everything you know, things happen, right. But yeah, it's 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.640 interesting when you say the young and dumb, because I think, well, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.440 I mean, I definitely had a young and dumb moment. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.440 I mean I was nineteen and had Elvis mary me 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.359 in Vegas and I only knew the guy for two weeks. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.679 So there's you know, that's a young and dumb moment. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.520 But there is something to be said to where, you know, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.240 I've got a six year old daughter, and it's like, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.360 how do I how do you tell your kids? Like, hey, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.599 wait until you're a certain age because I even see 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.560 kids now, I mean, shoot, our you know, our are 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.200 someone who's helping us with our kids. She was twenty 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.039 three and she got married and she was twenty something. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.800 I'm like, oh gosh, because I'm like, I just think 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:12.320 of all like them, how much I've grown from nineteen 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.520 to twenty three and then twenty three to twenty six 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.800 and then six to thirty, and it's like, I I 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:21.040 feel like I'm different people in those than those gaps. Yeah, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.600 oh absolutely. It's one thing I talked about in the 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:28.040 book is is the you know, the beauty of change, 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.320 and that that we are always changing and you know 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.760 where you you're not the person you were when you 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.560 were twenty three, You're not the person you were last year. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.680 You're not even the person you were yesterday. More than 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.640 likely because every experience we have in life changes us. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.800 And I believe that for every relationship that's going to work, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.320 you have to notify each other of when those changes happen. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.400 My wife and I we still do that, you know, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.920 we let each other know. You know, we're different now. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.120 Things that I used to like I may not like 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.080 it anymore. My love language changes. I mean, all things 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.200 are changing, sidly, and that's the beauty and the excitement 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.720 of marriage, but also the challenge. What do you say 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.280 when people say that person will never change. I don't 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.320 believe that, not at all. Yeah, no, I don't believe. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.440 I believe people change. People can change. The question is 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.120 when they do change, will you still be will you 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.120 want them? You know? Yeah, it doesn't mean you have 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.320 to stay be with them because they're changing. But everybody, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.160 I guess. I don't know if I'm an idealist or 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.400 just an eternal optimist or what, but I I believe 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.600 that everyone can change. Everyone has the ability to change. 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.600 And you've heard it said Janna, you know, one once 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.640 a cheat, always a cheating. I mean what if we 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.320 what if we said that about about other things in 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.839 our lives, you know, you know, once uh, overweight person 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.760 always an overweight person or once you know what I mean. No, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.960 people change, people grow, people are different, and uh, I 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.200 think we have to give people attitude to do that. No, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.920 I mean, I are you for sure on that? And 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.240 I think you know, I've always been a huge advocate 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.320 that things people can change, and you can grow, and 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.040 you can learn and heal and and be a better person. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.160 But there has to come a point too. And I 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.000 think you know experiences with my last relationship where I 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:17.760 kept saying, oh, it's gonna change, it's gonna change, it's 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.640 gonna change. But when the pattern keeps happening for six 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.120 years and you know, the cheating continues, it's like at 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.120 some point, like you gotta throw your hands up right 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:29.640 pastor and be like, hey, I like there is not 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.800 there's I don't see the change. And I'm not saying 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.960 you won't ever change, but you're clearly not changing in 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.959 our in this when like holding out for me, I'm like, 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:38.360 I'm the kind of person like I want to hold 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.000 out for like that change because now I'm like, oh, 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.280 now he's gonna change for the next person. Well that's 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:47.080 that sucks, you know, But like, yeah, but you're absolutely 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.920 right it's like, you know, you you have to determine 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.280 what your limits are. You have to determine where your 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.080 balance pretes are. Um as I mentioned before, were I'm 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.559 a second time or my wife is as well. And 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.920 you know, I've had people say, well, look if you guys, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.800 you know, could you have made your first marriage work? 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.640 I said, you know what, I don't know? Maybe if 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.800 of course about knowing what I know now. Yeah, but 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.800 but at at that certain point, um, you know, you 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.680 have to ask yourself the question is this going to 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.120 be good for me going into the future with all 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.360 the trials and all the problems and all the almost 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.440 irreparable damage that the relationship, that this relationship is caused. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.280 And if you're in a relationship where there's been irreparable damage, 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.480 the last thing you want to do is to stay 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:37.360 in it where it's it's damaging you. You know. So 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.480 you know, change can happen, people can change, But that's 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.480 still the question still is out there. You know, do 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.960 does that mean that you have to stay in that relationship? Yeah? 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.320 That's just like that's just like the tough part because 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.000 it's like after so many years, you're like, well, I've 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.320 waited this song so it's like the change has got 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.480 to come, But then you realize it's probably not going 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.000 to come with you, and it's hard to pass that 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:02.960 on to be like, oh, man, I fought for something 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.840 that now all that hard work is going to just 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:10.120 go into like this new blessinging romance that that I 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.520 fought for right or that people fight for And that 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.199 feels very unfair. Yeah it is, but you know, look this, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.160 this is that this is one of the mysteries of relationships. Yes, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.920 you can be in a relationship and look, am I 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.360 better than I was in my last marriage? Absolutely? You know. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.280 Are you better than you were in your last marriage? Absolutely? 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.840 So yes, you may have done something to to to 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.720 to make him better, but those experiences also made you better, sure, 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.160 you know. And so we all get better, we're all different, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.840 we're all better than we were, and we just have 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.679 to embrace that, you know. I mean, I look at 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.360 it like this that people come into your life for 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.240 a reason sometimes but not for a lifetime, you know. 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.160 And if someone's in your life and you change during 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.920 that time and you experience growth, and the trials that 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.840 you go through help you to experience a greater understanding 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.600 and a more pleasing personality than accept that that person 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.480 wasn't meant for you for the long term, so you 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.959 said earlier. So like, I've been married for fourteen years 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:21.760 and got married young, like you were saying earlier, Um, 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.400 so young. But so no, sorry that I referenced someone 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.800 that was so young, because I think about that all 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.040 the time, and I mean in our mayor just definitely 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.120 had ups and downs and so like you were saying earlier, 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.160 I'm so you know, we change, We changed through the 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.080 years every day all that. So it's like, how do 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.719 you recommend kind of you said that, y'all communicate that, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.800 but it's like, obviously me and my husband have changed 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.240 a lot through that time, so it's like, you know, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.520 how do you I mean, how do you know and 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.679 are aware of what you need to talk about and 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.839 what the changes. I mean, it's just it seems being 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.520 very aware yourself would be key, I guess, but that 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.400 just sounds hard to me. Yea, it is hard. It 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.800 is hard, and of course you don't marriageing for pomps, 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.840 but it is. It's it's very difficult to know this 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.960 and this is this is why I always encourage, you know, 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.160 constant communication and communication on on on deeper levels, not 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.880 just you know, talking about events and and you know, 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.960 how is your day and all that stuff. But communication 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.160 is difficult. It's so hard. It's hard to to to 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.360 talk about, you know, things that are painful. It's hard 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.360 to talk about things that you don't like anymore. It's 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.280 hard to talk about things in your spouse or in 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.920 your partner that you don't like anymore. But it's it's 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.680 just necessary. You have to have those tough discussions. You 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.360 have to have those tough arguments even in order for 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.480 it too, in order to get those things out in 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.920 order for it to work. But you're absolutely right, it's 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.280 tough for people who have been married. You're married young 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.480 now you're not the same person that you are that 0:13:54.640 --> 0:14:00.200 you were. It requires an incredible amount of vulnerability, openness, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.440 and and and introspection, you know, to to sit down 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:04.880 with your spouse and say, you know what, I want 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.360 to tell you how I'm different. I want to tell 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.880 you how I'm not the same person, and I want 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.800 to know how you're not the same person. And I I 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.120 don't want to find out how can these two new 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.720 people still stay together and still find love and still 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.640 discover the beauty and the newness that we all now share. 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.000 You know, it's it's it's tough, but it's necessary. Do 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.040 you think you could do that? Because I feel like 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:33.360 I would just cry, well, you know my problem, and 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.520 I would be like, this is how you've changed that 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.160 you can't you know, it's like but I mean this, yeah, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:41.880 And that's where it's like you have to I guess, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.200 like you just said point out how I've changed and said, 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.280 now you tell me how you've changed, And I guess 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.640 that would be a better way to have that conversation. 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.560 Why is it so hard? I mean because I feel 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.280 like I've I've definitely got it, but I've been doing 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.600 a better job at it over the years. But to 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.680 to have those vone rble conversations, it's your partner, it 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.720 should they should be your best friend, Like where where 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.800 does that go? Where? Like where does that piece go? 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.200 When shouldn't that be that person that you're just so 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.520 comfortable being like, hey, this is I'm going to be 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.920 vulnerable with you, Like I don't understand like how we're 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.560 that because I feel like I was a little bit 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.720 better with that in our marriage. But why it isn't 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.360 reciprocated or why it's harder for other people to like 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:32.120 get that. Yeah, it's because it's scary. It is scary 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.840 man to uh, to reveal yourself and too, to let 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.400 somebody know you know who you really are and what 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.920 you really feel and your deep dark secrets and and 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.760 and you're the things that you're not pleased about it. 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.080 I mean, it's it's really difficult to be that vulnerable. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.320 I heard a psychologist put it this way. He said 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.760 that she said that when I reveal who I really am, 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.000 it's a dangerous thing because I'm telling you the deepest 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.360 parts of me um and if you don't accept those 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.720 deepest parts, I have nothing left. You have completely rejected 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.840 who I am. So people quite often will will will 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.320 hide those parts. You'll keep those parts for themselves because 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.000 they don't want to feel rejected. But if you're going 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.600 to experience great love, you also have to take great risks. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.720 You also have to be willing to uh, to be 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.400 that open and to be that vulnerable and and unfortunately 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.520 a lot of people are are afraid of that, which 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.400 is why the divorce rate is so high. It's funny 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.760 because when we look at you know, arranged marriages like 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.200 which is what what I do. You know, we do 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.400 on the show sort of a new take on arranged marriages. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:43.600 They have roughly a ninety five percent success rate arranged marriages, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.920 and it's because they're not they're not romantic marriages. People 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.600 are getting together for a different reason. They're getting together 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.000 because number one, their families connect. Number two, they're building 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.280 legacies together. And what they're creating is a they're contributing 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.080 to the social stability of their community. And that's how 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:04.520 they look at it. They're not looking at it that 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.800 so that I love you, I love you, and we 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.720 just we just want to be together and see the 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.560 rainbows and the bunny rabbits and and you know, see 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.760 the clout of gold, and that's cool. But when you 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.480 have something that's much more firm, much more stable, to 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.240 build a relationship on the fact that we are actually 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.679 building something. Look, if I know that we have a 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.320 solid foundation. This is what my wife and we experienced 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.640 when we just determined and we we decided that look, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.080 we're not going anywhere period. That's it. We know what 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.399 the pain of loss feels like, we know what the 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.760 pain of divorce feels like. We will we will never 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.359 experience that again. Once we've established that in our relationship, 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.840 we can argue because that has been established and irrespectable, 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:52.160 I respectable, what happens, We're not going anywhere. We will 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.480 be together unless something happens where it's like, you're just miserable, right, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.399 because like you wouldn't want to stay in something that 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.320 you're just the since not picking, you know, not being 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.080 your partner and helping and growing. If person just like 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.080 throws it away, like you can't stay in that right, well, 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:16.399 well you know you look, here's the thing. Misery is 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.920 a part of marriage, sure, but not for like five years? 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.560 Could you be miserable? Like honestly, like if if I 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.760 ever get married again, if I'm miserable and like it is, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.840 I'm in a five year, ten year misery, Like what 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.399 is the point I'd rather be alone? If I've tried 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.520 and I've done therapy and this person is still not 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.639 like doing their work, Like how is that healthy? Yeah? 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.560 I'm not the guy who to say stay in a 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.720 marriage under any give any search chance. I'm not going 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.520 to say that, but I am going to say, because 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.920 you know, for for all the couples that I've I've 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.320 talked to the last twenty some years. One one common 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.760 denominator that I've seen is that people do give up 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.960 too quickly. For sure. I've seen couples who have been 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:08.199 miserable for years have learned tools to cope and to 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.920 deal and to understand and to reveal. Look, I've seen 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.800 couples have been violent. I mean literally, I don't. I don't. 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.760 I don't advise the violence. I don't. I don't stand 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.360 for it all. But I've seen couples have been physically 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.679 violent towards one another, have come to an understanding of 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.720 why that was happening, have corrected their behavior, and have 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.679 accepted each other the corrected people that they that they become. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.239 And the last time that I've checked, they have been 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:41.320 married down for twenty one years, happy, happy because they've 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.159 They've They've understood what the problem was. They isolated the problem. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.639 They didn't they didn't attach the problem to the person, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.439 but they took the problem, as I often say, and 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:51.960 they set it on the shelf and say, you know what, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.639 that's the problem this year is attacking our marriage. How 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.000 do we attack that issue, not connect the issue to 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.000 the person, but so separate the issue from the person 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:06.280 and deal with the issue objectively. Two people have to 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.200 be willing to do that, and they have to be 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.800 willing to stay in this thing and work at it, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.879 and they have to be vulnerable and realized, look, I 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:14.840 screw it up. And if you have a person who's 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.119 not willing to admit their error, that's a problem. And 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.240 that's when I see marriages decline. Yeah, I mean for sure. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.399 I remember when I went into my therapist office. She 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.720 was like when I found out about you know, all 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.359 the affairs and stuff, my therapist is like, give it, 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.640 do not do anything for at least a year, yes, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.040 And I'm like, what the did you decay? I think, 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.679 because like what now, like you're out of your mind, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:43.840 Like how I can't even be in the same And 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.160 she's like, I need you to give it. Do not 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.520 make any drastic And I think you're right. I think 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.080 people do give up to you too easy. And I 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.359 think it's they're shiny objects over here, and there's a 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.639 shiny object over there, and it's it seems like a 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.800 quick fix, but there's not. But then the lead into 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:00.800 my point where she was I was saying, like, Okay, 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.680 then six years later, still misery still relapses. Okay, now 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.560 it's like, what do I want for my next fifty 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.080 you know, like I that's just not a life and 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.200 and neither for him to like you know, he's we 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.919 we weren't. Um, we were better off co parents and 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.040 that's the unfortunate truth. And you know, um yeah, and 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.199 again not something that I think we it's not like 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.520 you walk into that but knowing that marriage is really hard. Um. 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.480 But I'm curious, like, what do you say to the 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:37.560 people that they didn't cheat, they're not alcoholics, they don't 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.720 have um, there's really nothing wrong. They just kind of 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.200 feel stuck. Is it just going back to that same 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.439 like communication or is there something that can kind of 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:51.239 like jump started a little bit? Absolutely, and that this 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.159 is when this is when Kelseling comes in. You need 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.280 to look. I God, I've talked to so many people 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.000 who have been in that situation. I'm talking about people 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.960 been married for years. I'm tying ten, fifteen, twenty years, 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:09.080 and they felt stuck. And there's a way to become unstuck, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.280 of course, you know, And yeah, we have started in 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.800 every individual, you know, because every situation is different. So 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:16.439 I can't give you just a carte blanche. You do 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:21.320 this magic thing improve you're unstuck it. Actually, you actually 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:26.320 have to one identify what that challenge is. What, Okay, 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.560