Speaker 1: Wine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so annoying. What is that Mark only
Speaker 1: comes on the show when something is like I just
Speaker 1: had this feeling, Well here he comes, this little bobblehead.
Speaker 1: I know, but it's just whenever anything is like in
Speaker 1: the press or which there's that I don't know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about there, but um, it's just I'm like,
Speaker 1: I bet you Mark is going to be on the
Speaker 1: show because he's just a digger. He likes to dig
Speaker 1: and he likes to poke and he likes to proud
Speaker 1: because he's a producer. It is. It's a fine line
Speaker 1: I want and I don't want to impose myself in
Speaker 1: the show and I'm not needed. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be in the way, but there are times when some
Speaker 1: prodding could help the situation, right yeah, Because I mean
Speaker 1: I have seen some stories you have some very complimentary
Speaker 1: thank you. That's so sweet. I haven't looked or noticed
Speaker 1: at all. It's so great because she just doesn't pay
Speaker 1: attention stuff. No, it's it's awesome. And living my life
Speaker 1: as a single mom and having fun and um, just
Speaker 1: you know, I stay on social media. I love it
Speaker 1: and I'm over here, like that's smart. But I will
Speaker 1: tell you that I did see one article that says
Speaker 1: that you are a smoke So wait, I'm sorry, can
Speaker 1: we what does that mean? Um my understanding? Well I
Speaker 1: always go great to Urban Dictionary in this. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I should read you the actual definition of it. But
Speaker 1: is it now? Is a smoke which I believe is
Speaker 1: often short for a smoke show wow, And a smoke
Speaker 1: show is a word to described someone so hot that
Speaker 1: you basically see the smoke coming off. That's so good man.
Speaker 1: I got to get back on social media. I was
Speaker 1: so nervous for a second. Was not going to me
Speaker 1: in smoke show like trust me saying, um No, I
Speaker 1: mean that's a lie to say. IM not on social media.
Speaker 1: I I just don't. Um I've I learned from the
Speaker 1: divorce to not read comments because people are very mean,
Speaker 1: and I think there's just so much misinformation out in
Speaker 1: the world in general that it's it's um my, my
Speaker 1: heart is always like but that's not true, and it's
Speaker 1: like it takes so much energy to like defend or
Speaker 1: it's just so funny. Everyone thinks they have it all
Speaker 1: figured out. They know everything that goes on and they
Speaker 1: just you know, so what can you do? You can't?
Speaker 1: You just gotta let it, let it ride. Is it
Speaker 1: a weird feeling that if you choose to comment on
Speaker 1: the you know, if there are twenty articles this week,
Speaker 1: came on your podcast and said, uh, these aren't truer. Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's true. Whatever you said, it would create twenty
Speaker 1: more articles and probably forty articles next week. Is that
Speaker 1: a weird feeling that you have that kind of power
Speaker 1: to create this stuff? You know? I know, I think
Speaker 1: I think I've learned lessons of speaking, you know, and
Speaker 1: I think, um, yeah, I don't have no comment on
Speaker 1: being a smoke. Oh thank you. My comment is being
Speaker 1: a smoke is that's I'm very flattered, So thank you.
Speaker 1: It's very sweets and um thanks Cat Hilcome. Okay, so,
Speaker 1: speaking of my best dam, we're going to Vegas because
Speaker 1: I Heart Music Festival is back gambling. Yes, we're being
Speaker 1: So we're doing a pre show podcast hosted by me
Speaker 1: and my best friend Catherine is gonna be with me.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a blast. Um. We're gonna have some
Speaker 1: amazing artists and celebrities joining the show. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: Tasha Adams, Chrissie Mets, Debbie Gibson, Joey McIntyre. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: if I started singing any of his songs. Okay, thanks, Um,
Speaker 1: Donny Osmond, Maddie and Kenzie Ziel. You love dance moms
Speaker 1: and I love Um, I love their mom. They're so
Speaker 1: sweet nine degrees obsessed. Do you know that their Christmas
Speaker 1: album is probably one of the best Christmas albums of
Speaker 1: all time? So good? Um and Teddy Mellencamp who She's
Speaker 1: My Girl? So um so and so many more. So
Speaker 1: get your tickets today at on location live dot com
Speaker 1: and let's have fun and get lucky in Vegas. Hey, Hey, Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: it's good lucky. Okay, Okay. We have a really exciting
Speaker 1: guest that's coming on today, Pastor Cal. And he has
Speaker 1: a book out called Marriage Ain't for Punks. And he's
Speaker 1: also a mentor on Married at First Sight, which is
Speaker 1: Wednesday's on Lifetime Lifetime. Um. But I'm really pumped to
Speaker 1: get him on and talk all things marriage. And actually
Speaker 1: I think is in the waiting room now, so let's
Speaker 1: bring him in. Hey, Pastor Cal, Hey, Janna, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good, thank you? How are you I'm Janna and
Speaker 1: this is my friend Catherine. Hi. Oh my goodness, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to have you on the show. Um. First
Speaker 1: of all, I just your book. The title is just
Speaker 1: fantastic because it's so true. Marriage is not for punks.
Speaker 1: You know the name for punks. It's hard, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's not an easy thing. It's it's pretty tough. Actually,
Speaker 1: But do you know what, I'm possible and when it works,
Speaker 1: it works great, It works so well. How long have
Speaker 1: you been married? For my wife and I we've been
Speaker 1: married for We're gonna year, okay, Yeah, And we're very
Speaker 1: open and honest with people. We tell them, you know,
Speaker 1: this is our we're second timer. As we get married
Speaker 1: first time, very young and very dumb, and we made
Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes. But this time it's it's still death.
Speaker 1: Do us part voluntarily or involuntarily. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: day to leave. Yeah. My ex said the same thing,
Speaker 1: but he's not here anymore. It's fine, it's fine. I
Speaker 1: think everything you know, things happen, right. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: interesting when you say the young and dumb, because I think, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely had a young and dumb moment.
Speaker 1: I mean I was nineteen and had Elvis mary me
Speaker 1: in Vegas and I only knew the guy for two weeks.
Speaker 1: So there's you know, that's a young and dumb moment.
Speaker 1: But there is something to be said to where, you know,
Speaker 1: I've got a six year old daughter, and it's like,
Speaker 1: how do I how do you tell your kids? Like, hey,
Speaker 1: wait until you're a certain age because I even see
Speaker 1: kids now, I mean, shoot, our you know, our are
Speaker 1: someone who's helping us with our kids. She was twenty
Speaker 1: three and she got married and she was twenty something.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh gosh, because I'm like, I just think
Speaker 1: of all like them, how much I've grown from nineteen
Speaker 1: to twenty three and then twenty three to twenty six
Speaker 1: and then six to thirty, and it's like, I I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm different people in those than those gaps. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh absolutely. It's one thing I talked about in the
Speaker 1: book is is the you know, the beauty of change,
Speaker 1: and that that we are always changing and you know
Speaker 1: where you you're not the person you were when you
Speaker 1: were twenty three, You're not the person you were last year.
Speaker 1: You're not even the person you were yesterday. More than
Speaker 1: likely because every experience we have in life changes us.
Speaker 1: And I believe that for every relationship that's going to work,
Speaker 1: you have to notify each other of when those changes happen.
Speaker 1: My wife and I we still do that, you know,
Speaker 1: we let each other know. You know, we're different now.
Speaker 1: Things that I used to like I may not like
Speaker 1: it anymore. My love language changes. I mean, all things
Speaker 1: are changing, sidly, and that's the beauty and the excitement
Speaker 1: of marriage, but also the challenge. What do you say
Speaker 1: when people say that person will never change. I don't
Speaker 1: believe that, not at all. Yeah, no, I don't believe.
Speaker 1: I believe people change. People can change. The question is
Speaker 1: when they do change, will you still be will you
Speaker 1: want them? You know? Yeah, it doesn't mean you have
Speaker 1: to stay be with them because they're changing. But everybody,
Speaker 1: I guess. I don't know if I'm an idealist or
Speaker 1: just an eternal optimist or what, but I I believe
Speaker 1: that everyone can change. Everyone has the ability to change.
Speaker 1: And you've heard it said Janna, you know, one once
Speaker 1: a cheat, always a cheating. I mean what if we
Speaker 1: what if we said that about about other things in
Speaker 1: our lives, you know, you know, once uh, overweight person
Speaker 1: always an overweight person or once you know what I mean. No,
Speaker 1: people change, people grow, people are different, and uh, I
Speaker 1: think we have to give people attitude to do that. No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I are you for sure on that? And
Speaker 1: I think you know, I've always been a huge advocate
Speaker 1: that things people can change, and you can grow, and
Speaker 1: you can learn and heal and and be a better person.
Speaker 1: But there has to come a point too. And I
Speaker 1: think you know experiences with my last relationship where I
Speaker 1: kept saying, oh, it's gonna change, it's gonna change, it's
Speaker 1: gonna change. But when the pattern keeps happening for six
Speaker 1: years and you know, the cheating continues, it's like at
Speaker 1: some point, like you gotta throw your hands up right
Speaker 1: pastor and be like, hey, I like there is not
Speaker 1: there's I don't see the change. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: you won't ever change, but you're clearly not changing in
Speaker 1: our in this when like holding out for me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm the kind of person like I want to hold
Speaker 1: out for like that change because now I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: now he's gonna change for the next person. Well that's
Speaker 1: that sucks, you know, But like, yeah, but you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right it's like, you know, you you have to determine
Speaker 1: what your limits are. You have to determine where your
Speaker 1: balance pretes are. Um as I mentioned before, were I'm
Speaker 1: a second time or my wife is as well. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've had people say, well, look if you guys,
Speaker 1: you know, could you have made your first marriage work?
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I don't know? Maybe if
Speaker 1: of course about knowing what I know now. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: but at at that certain point, um, you know, you
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself the question is this going to
Speaker 1: be good for me going into the future with all
Speaker 1: the trials and all the problems and all the almost
Speaker 1: irreparable damage that the relationship, that this relationship is caused.
Speaker 1: And if you're in a relationship where there's been irreparable damage,
Speaker 1: the last thing you want to do is to stay
Speaker 1: in it where it's it's damaging you. You know. So
Speaker 1: you know, change can happen, people can change, But that's
Speaker 1: still the question still is out there. You know, do
Speaker 1: does that mean that you have to stay in that relationship? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's just like that's just like the tough part because
Speaker 1: it's like after so many years, you're like, well, I've
Speaker 1: waited this song so it's like the change has got
Speaker 1: to come, But then you realize it's probably not going
Speaker 1: to come with you, and it's hard to pass that
Speaker 1: on to be like, oh, man, I fought for something
Speaker 1: that now all that hard work is going to just
Speaker 1: go into like this new blessinging romance that that I
Speaker 1: fought for right or that people fight for And that
Speaker 1: feels very unfair. Yeah it is, but you know, look this,
Speaker 1: this is that this is one of the mysteries of relationships. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can be in a relationship and look, am I
Speaker 1: better than I was in my last marriage? Absolutely? You know.
Speaker 1: Are you better than you were in your last marriage? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: So yes, you may have done something to to to
Speaker 1: to make him better, but those experiences also made you better, sure,
Speaker 1: you know. And so we all get better, we're all different,
Speaker 1: we're all better than we were, and we just have
Speaker 1: to embrace that, you know. I mean, I look at
Speaker 1: it like this that people come into your life for
Speaker 1: a reason sometimes but not for a lifetime, you know.
Speaker 1: And if someone's in your life and you change during
Speaker 1: that time and you experience growth, and the trials that
Speaker 1: you go through help you to experience a greater understanding
Speaker 1: and a more pleasing personality than accept that that person
Speaker 1: wasn't meant for you for the long term, so you
Speaker 1: said earlier. So like, I've been married for fourteen years
Speaker 1: and got married young, like you were saying earlier, Um,
Speaker 1: so young. But so no, sorry that I referenced someone
Speaker 1: that was so young, because I think about that all
Speaker 1: the time, and I mean in our mayor just definitely
Speaker 1: had ups and downs and so like you were saying earlier,
Speaker 1: I'm so you know, we change, We changed through the
Speaker 1: years every day all that. So it's like, how do
Speaker 1: you recommend kind of you said that, y'all communicate that,
Speaker 1: but it's like, obviously me and my husband have changed
Speaker 1: a lot through that time, so it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: how do you I mean, how do you know and
Speaker 1: are aware of what you need to talk about and
Speaker 1: what the changes. I mean, it's just it seems being
Speaker 1: very aware yourself would be key, I guess, but that
Speaker 1: just sounds hard to me. Yea, it is hard. It
Speaker 1: is hard, and of course you don't marriageing for pomps,
Speaker 1: but it is. It's it's very difficult to know this
Speaker 1: and this is this is why I always encourage, you know,
Speaker 1: constant communication and communication on on on deeper levels, not
Speaker 1: just you know, talking about events and and you know,
Speaker 1: how is your day and all that stuff. But communication
Speaker 1: is difficult. It's so hard. It's hard to to to
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, things that are painful. It's hard
Speaker 1: to talk about things that you don't like anymore. It's
Speaker 1: hard to talk about things in your spouse or in
Speaker 1: your partner that you don't like anymore. But it's it's
Speaker 1: just necessary. You have to have those tough discussions. You
Speaker 1: have to have those tough arguments even in order for
Speaker 1: it too, in order to get those things out in
Speaker 1: order for it to work. But you're absolutely right, it's
Speaker 1: tough for people who have been married. You're married young
Speaker 1: now you're not the same person that you are that
Speaker 1: you were. It requires an incredible amount of vulnerability, openness,
Speaker 1: and and and introspection, you know, to to sit down
Speaker 1: with your spouse and say, you know what, I want
Speaker 1: to tell you how I'm different. I want to tell
Speaker 1: you how I'm not the same person, and I want
Speaker 1: to know how you're not the same person. And I I
Speaker 1: don't want to find out how can these two new
Speaker 1: people still stay together and still find love and still
Speaker 1: discover the beauty and the newness that we all now share.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's tough, but it's necessary. Do
Speaker 1: you think you could do that? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: I would just cry, well, you know my problem, and
Speaker 1: I would be like, this is how you've changed that
Speaker 1: you can't you know, it's like but I mean this, yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's where it's like you have to I guess,
Speaker 1: like you just said point out how I've changed and said,
Speaker 1: now you tell me how you've changed, And I guess
Speaker 1: that would be a better way to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard? I mean because I feel
Speaker 1: like I've I've definitely got it, but I've been doing
Speaker 1: a better job at it over the years. But to
Speaker 1: to have those vone rble conversations, it's your partner, it
Speaker 1: should they should be your best friend, Like where where
Speaker 1: does that go? Where? Like where does that piece go?
Speaker 1: When shouldn't that be that person that you're just so
Speaker 1: comfortable being like, hey, this is I'm going to be
Speaker 1: vulnerable with you, Like I don't understand like how we're
Speaker 1: that because I feel like I was a little bit
Speaker 1: better with that in our marriage. But why it isn't
Speaker 1: reciprocated or why it's harder for other people to like
Speaker 1: get that. Yeah, it's because it's scary. It is scary
Speaker 1: man to uh, to reveal yourself and too, to let
Speaker 1: somebody know you know who you really are and what
Speaker 1: you really feel and your deep dark secrets and and
Speaker 1: and you're the things that you're not pleased about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's really difficult to be that vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I heard a psychologist put it this way. He said
Speaker 1: that she said that when I reveal who I really am,
Speaker 1: it's a dangerous thing because I'm telling you the deepest
Speaker 1: parts of me um and if you don't accept those
Speaker 1: deepest parts, I have nothing left. You have completely rejected
Speaker 1: who I am. So people quite often will will will
Speaker 1: hide those parts. You'll keep those parts for themselves because
Speaker 1: they don't want to feel rejected. But if you're going
Speaker 1: to experience great love, you also have to take great risks.
Speaker 1: You also have to be willing to uh, to be
Speaker 1: that open and to be that vulnerable and and unfortunately
Speaker 1: a lot of people are are afraid of that, which
Speaker 1: is why the divorce rate is so high. It's funny
Speaker 1: because when we look at you know, arranged marriages like
Speaker 1: which is what what I do. You know, we do
Speaker 1: on the show sort of a new take on arranged marriages.
Speaker 1: They have roughly a ninety five percent success rate arranged marriages,
Speaker 1: and it's because they're not they're not romantic marriages. People
Speaker 1: are getting together for a different reason. They're getting together
Speaker 1: because number one, their families connect. Number two, they're building
Speaker 1: legacies together. And what they're creating is a they're contributing
Speaker 1: to the social stability of their community. And that's how
Speaker 1: they look at it. They're not looking at it that
Speaker 1: so that I love you, I love you, and we
Speaker 1: just we just want to be together and see the
Speaker 1: rainbows and the bunny rabbits and and you know, see
Speaker 1: the clout of gold, and that's cool. But when you
Speaker 1: have something that's much more firm, much more stable, to
Speaker 1: build a relationship on the fact that we are actually
Speaker 1: building something. Look, if I know that we have a
Speaker 1: solid foundation. This is what my wife and we experienced
Speaker 1: when we just determined and we we decided that look,
Speaker 1: we're not going anywhere period. That's it. We know what
Speaker 1: the pain of loss feels like, we know what the
Speaker 1: pain of divorce feels like. We will we will never
Speaker 1: experience that again. Once we've established that in our relationship,
Speaker 1: we can argue because that has been established and irrespectable,
Speaker 1: I respectable, what happens, We're not going anywhere. We will
Speaker 1: be together unless something happens where it's like, you're just miserable, right,
Speaker 1: because like you wouldn't want to stay in something that
Speaker 1: you're just the since not picking, you know, not being
Speaker 1: your partner and helping and growing. If person just like
Speaker 1: throws it away, like you can't stay in that right, well,
Speaker 1: well you know you look, here's the thing. Misery is
Speaker 1: a part of marriage, sure, but not for like five years?
Speaker 1: Could you be miserable? Like honestly, like if if I
Speaker 1: ever get married again, if I'm miserable and like it is,
Speaker 1: I'm in a five year, ten year misery, Like what
Speaker 1: is the point I'd rather be alone? If I've tried
Speaker 1: and I've done therapy and this person is still not
Speaker 1: like doing their work, Like how is that healthy? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I'm not the guy who to say stay in a
Speaker 1: marriage under any give any search chance. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to say that, but I am going to say, because
Speaker 1: you know, for for all the couples that I've I've
Speaker 1: talked to the last twenty some years. One one common
Speaker 1: denominator that I've seen is that people do give up
Speaker 1: too quickly. For sure. I've seen couples who have been
Speaker 1: miserable for years have learned tools to cope and to
Speaker 1: deal and to understand and to reveal. Look, I've seen
Speaker 1: couples have been violent. I mean literally, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't advise the violence. I don't. I don't stand
Speaker 1: for it all. But I've seen couples have been physically
Speaker 1: violent towards one another, have come to an understanding of
Speaker 1: why that was happening, have corrected their behavior, and have
Speaker 1: accepted each other the corrected people that they that they become.
Speaker 1: And the last time that I've checked, they have been
Speaker 1: married down for twenty one years, happy, happy because they've
Speaker 1: They've They've understood what the problem was. They isolated the problem.
Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't attach the problem to the person,
Speaker 1: but they took the problem, as I often say, and
Speaker 1: they set it on the shelf and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's the problem this year is attacking our marriage. How
Speaker 1: do we attack that issue, not connect the issue to
Speaker 1: the person, but so separate the issue from the person
Speaker 1: and deal with the issue objectively. Two people have to
Speaker 1: be willing to do that, and they have to be
Speaker 1: willing to stay in this thing and work at it,
Speaker 1: and they have to be vulnerable and realized, look, I
Speaker 1: screw it up. And if you have a person who's
Speaker 1: not willing to admit their error, that's a problem. And
Speaker 1: that's when I see marriages decline. Yeah, I mean for sure.
Speaker 1: I remember when I went into my therapist office. She
Speaker 1: was like when I found out about you know, all
Speaker 1: the affairs and stuff, my therapist is like, give it,
Speaker 1: do not do anything for at least a year, yes,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what the did you decay? I think,
Speaker 1: because like what now, like you're out of your mind,
Speaker 1: Like how I can't even be in the same And
Speaker 1: she's like, I need you to give it. Do not
Speaker 1: make any drastic And I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: people do give up to you too easy. And I
Speaker 1: think it's they're shiny objects over here, and there's a
Speaker 1: shiny object over there, and it's it seems like a
Speaker 1: quick fix, but there's not. But then the lead into
Speaker 1: my point where she was I was saying, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: then six years later, still misery still relapses. Okay, now
Speaker 1: it's like, what do I want for my next fifty
Speaker 1: you know, like I that's just not a life and
Speaker 1: and neither for him to like you know, he's we
Speaker 1: we weren't. Um, we were better off co parents and
Speaker 1: that's the unfortunate truth. And you know, um yeah, and
Speaker 1: again not something that I think we it's not like
Speaker 1: you walk into that but knowing that marriage is really hard. Um.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like, what do you say to the
Speaker 1: people that they didn't cheat, they're not alcoholics, they don't
Speaker 1: have um, there's really nothing wrong. They just kind of
Speaker 1: feel stuck. Is it just going back to that same
Speaker 1: like communication or is there something that can kind of
Speaker 1: like jump started a little bit? Absolutely, and that this
Speaker 1: is when this is when Kelseling comes in. You need
Speaker 1: to look. I God, I've talked to so many people
Speaker 1: who have been in that situation. I'm talking about people
Speaker 1: been married for years. I'm tying ten, fifteen, twenty years,
Speaker 1: and they felt stuck. And there's a way to become unstuck,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, And yeah, we have started in
Speaker 1: every individual, you know, because every situation is different. So
Speaker 1: I can't give you just a carte blanche. You do
Speaker 1: this magic thing improve you're unstuck it. Actually, you actually
Speaker 1: have to one identify what that challenge is. What, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, why do I feel this way? And you know,
Speaker 1: take the focus off your partner and put the focus
Speaker 1: on you. Why do I feel? Like? Why do I
Speaker 1: feel stuff? What if you don't know? Though, Like what
Speaker 1: if you're like, I don't know? That's when a therapist
Speaker 1: canna help you uncover that because a lot of times,
Speaker 1: a lot of times, what you deal with in your
Speaker 1: relationship has nothing to do with your relationship. It has
Speaker 1: to do with some some craft that you've dealt with
Speaker 1: in your history, has to do with some some stuff
Speaker 1: you've dealt with in your past. I mean, I've I've
Speaker 1: talked to numerous people who are who are carrying baggage
Speaker 1: from their parents, carrying baggage from their old relationships, and
Speaker 1: they're wondering, know, why is my marriage suffering? Where your
Speaker 1: marriage is suffering because you never resolved those things from
Speaker 1: your past and those things are weighing you down, and
Speaker 1: they're weighing your spouse down. And when you have two
Speaker 1: people who are dealing with some of the same kind
Speaker 1: of challenges, you know, yeah, it's it's almost a sinking
Speaker 1: ship that you're you're you're on so a lot of
Speaker 1: times that that stuck feeling that thing that you know,
Speaker 1: why is there a weight on us? Why is it
Speaker 1: that our that that you know, we can't seem to
Speaker 1: just be happy, we can't seem to just feel good.
Speaker 1: I mean, what is that? I always said, I think
Speaker 1: your your therapist was so right. Don't make any rast decisions.
Speaker 1: The first thing you need to do individually is seek
Speaker 1: some counseling and find out, first of all, is there
Speaker 1: something about me that's causing me to be stuck not
Speaker 1: only in my marriage, but in other areas of my
Speaker 1: life as well, and that needs to be uncovered with
Speaker 1: some serious, some serious interventions. Mhm, great, church rightious. Good.
Speaker 1: What's been the biggest, um, the biggest lesson that you've
Speaker 1: kind of or not said lesson, but um awakening I
Speaker 1: guess that you've had to realize with marriage. Yeah, I guess, well,
Speaker 1: there's so many, but I guess one thing that comes
Speaker 1: to mind, uh, is that you know, there is no
Speaker 1: perfect marriage. There is no that all my expectations have
Speaker 1: to be altered and normalized, you know, and I think
Speaker 1: that there's nothing that's that that's perfect, that that's going
Speaker 1: to be exactly what I expected to be. But it's
Speaker 1: probably better than you know, what what other people are
Speaker 1: going through as well. I tell people this all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, for all the people who complain about their relationships.
Speaker 1: If you were to take everyone and sit them, stand
Speaker 1: me in a circle and somehow take all your problems
Speaker 1: and throw them in the middle, and if everyone could
Speaker 1: stand around and look at those problems in the middle,
Speaker 1: I will bet you you'd take yours back. Yes, Now,
Speaker 1: everybody's going through their own bs. Everybody's going to their
Speaker 1: own kind of crap man, and you know, you we can,
Speaker 1: you know, monumentalize ours and say, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is the worst thing in the world. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: never as bad as you think it is. There's never
Speaker 1: you know, the grass is never really grieving on the
Speaker 1: other side. That's so true. And just to share a
Speaker 1: quick little story, I went to get a new computer
Speaker 1: and the guy that sold me the computer he was blind,
Speaker 1: and I just, I don't know, I just kind of
Speaker 1: felt this nudge to just have conversation with him, and
Speaker 1: you know, so I started talking to him, asking where
Speaker 1: he's from, and um, I could just see him kind
Speaker 1: of uh loosen up a little bit and um start
Speaker 1: smiling and it just warm my heart. And so then
Speaker 1: I started asking him about you know, I said, if
Speaker 1: it's if it's okay to ask, you know, how long
Speaker 1: if was this? Were you born blinder? And he just
Speaker 1: started telling a story and it was fascinating. And then
Speaker 1: he goes, and you know what, and he said, exactly
Speaker 1: what you just said. He goes, if if we all
Speaker 1: sat in a circle, we put all of our in
Speaker 1: the middle of the room. He goes, I will take
Speaker 1: my blindness over any of the other stuff that people
Speaker 1: put in the middle. And I was just like it
Speaker 1: was just like it almost like made it started interior. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's so true. Like we all have our stuff, and
Speaker 1: it's just how we find the gratitude in and how
Speaker 1: we grow from it, how we learn from it, and
Speaker 1: how we are grateful, like, Okay, it's not really that bad.
Speaker 1: It's not And if we could just tell ourselves that,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, my wife always used this
Speaker 1: illustrations that the building always looks until intimidating. It always
Speaker 1: looks large when you're standing right at the front entrance,
Speaker 1: you know, you look up its Oh my god, that
Speaker 1: is a looming building. That is the biggest thing. But
Speaker 1: when you step back, the further you go back from it,
Speaker 1: you notice, wait a minute, you know, it tends to
Speaker 1: come into focus. I think most of the time we
Speaker 1: have to step away from our situations so we can
Speaker 1: sit back and look at it objective and say, okay, fine,
Speaker 1: how bad is this actually? M hm? You know, how
Speaker 1: how bad was this argument? Did my didn't you know?
Speaker 1: Did my husband hit me? Did my wife? No, it
Speaker 1: wasn't any of that. Okay, fine, you know, are they?
Speaker 1: Are they a bad person? I asked to I asked
Speaker 1: a couple of this once, um on on on on
Speaker 1: the show Married at First Sight, and I asked her.
Speaker 1: I said she was complaining about a relationships. I said,
Speaker 1: if you were to give you a relationship a grade
Speaker 1: from A to F, what would it be? And she said, well,
Speaker 1: probably a B minus. I said, oh my gosh, you
Speaker 1: realize how people have been married for fifty years when
Speaker 1: A see and if I got to be minus in school,
Speaker 1: I'd be celebrating. So that sounds pretty damn good. Be minus. Hey,
Speaker 1: we're having a party. Yeah, Oh my gosh. It's perspective.
Speaker 1: It's all perspective. Do you like doing merrit at first sight?
Speaker 1: Because I mean it's it's so fun. I I really do.
Speaker 1: It's you know, and probably for a different reason. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not the TV. TV is great, you know,
Speaker 1: but it's not just that when you when you have
Speaker 1: I think right now we have about sixteen successful individuals,
Speaker 1: you know, we have like eight babies. I mean that
Speaker 1: is the kind of stuff that just were like making families. Man,
Speaker 1: and Jamie Otis was on Married at First Sight, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're friends on Instagram. She's a sweetheart and I and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, wow, that's so crazy that that actually works,
Speaker 1: you know. And you're that's a lot better than the
Speaker 1: Bachelor Bachelor, right, So yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna brochade,
Speaker 1: but you're absolutely right, we're knocking them out the water.
Speaker 1: But it's great. And then do you have how many kids?
Speaker 1: Do you have? Three? Have three? So because you know,
Speaker 1: you're so aware and I've shoot, I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of childhood work and realizing how what how that has
Speaker 1: brought into my adult life and I've been so mindful
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, what what is going to be my
Speaker 1: part that I play in my children's life now with um,
Speaker 1: their traumas that I'm gonna I got, I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to probably bring something that I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: not going to be the divorce or whatever, but is
Speaker 1: there something that are you mindful of ways that you
Speaker 1: communicate with your kids so that, um, they're not going
Speaker 1: to be sitting in therapy. It's just talking about y'all. Yes,
Speaker 1: they might still be sitting in therapy. But god, you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny because you know, I have I
Speaker 1: have a you know, two millennials and and one who
Speaker 1: is just outside outside that that are or somewhere, and
Speaker 1: I don't know they are, but but it's a whole
Speaker 1: different way of thinking. I I don't understand them anymore.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but you know, but yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: I tried to pour as much openness and honesty and
Speaker 1: kindness and understand again them so that they they can
Speaker 1: you know, have some kind of balance and success. As
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's funny because I guess all
Speaker 1: three of them come to me when they're having issues
Speaker 1: and challenges and we sit down and they do talk
Speaker 1: about their their issues. You know, Dad, what do you
Speaker 1: think about this? How do you pass rewarding you know,
Speaker 1: so so like open communication, keep the keep the open.
Speaker 1: And then for for those of us that are in
Speaker 1: the dating world, what do what do you recommend for?
Speaker 1: For that? I gotta I gotta hear it. Girl? Do
Speaker 1: you do? You? Do you? Okay? You marry you? You're
Speaker 1: you're singing? Do you have a checklist? I have boxes? Okay,
Speaker 1: you have boxes to be checked, Yes, the check but okay,
Speaker 1: but you know it's like the list is like this,
Speaker 1: and then I have like they're like boxes. That's how
Speaker 1: I visually. Oh man, I guess I've never really um uh, well,
Speaker 1: they don't go any and I'm not gonna won't go
Speaker 1: through the list. Okay, fine, I don't know. Let's say
Speaker 1: like between five to ten, so too many five thinking boxes?
Speaker 1: I would say, what's the right answers? The right answer
Speaker 1: I want to be I would say that if you know,
Speaker 1: and this is not just for you, but anyone who
Speaker 1: has checklists or boxes or any of that, um, I
Speaker 1: would say destroy them. No, what I would say, destroy
Speaker 1: your boxes, destroy your Let me tell you something first
Speaker 1: of all, and you're you're okay because you you you've
Speaker 1: been married before. Yes, and you've gone through something. I
Speaker 1: would bet you that some of your boxes are based
Speaker 1: on what you've gone through. I'm gone, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I get that. But here's the thing you create. You've
Speaker 1: created boxes. And again it's not just you, but most
Speaker 1: people create boxes based on what they've seen, based on
Speaker 1: what they've experienced and said, you know what, I don't
Speaker 1: want that. And here's the problem. You may meet someone
Speaker 1: who might remind you of something from your past, and
Speaker 1: immediately you'll dismiss them because they remind you from something
Speaker 1: of their past, of your past. But you know, I
Speaker 1: learned this when I actually sat with the therapist after
Speaker 1: my first marriage, and the therapist told me this. She said, cal,
Speaker 1: you're gonna meet people who remind you of what you
Speaker 1: went through. What I need you to do is to
Speaker 1: ignore that, okay, because here's the thing. There are some
Speaker 1: things that are peculiar to limit There are some things
Speaker 1: that are peculiar to all men. And what you're doing
Speaker 1: now is you're just just taking up making a blanket
Speaker 1: statement about all people. Because because you have too many girlfriends,
Speaker 1: too many female friends, or you have you know, you
Speaker 1: don't listen. You kind of talk when I'm talking or
Speaker 1: you or you have all these things that come from
Speaker 1: your past. You're constantly dismissing people. These are probably things
Speaker 1: that are fixable. They may not been fixable with your ex,
Speaker 1: but they're stable with you. They might be fixable with
Speaker 1: this next person. So tell people often is that if
Speaker 1: you have a checklist, forget it. When I did, I
Speaker 1: did a couple of years of law school before I
Speaker 1: twit and hated it. But when I was in law school,
Speaker 1: the first day I professor told us, he said, some
Speaker 1: of you have taken political science. Raise your hand. Some
Speaker 1: of you have parents who attorney is. Raise your hand.
Speaker 1: They all did. Some of you may have worked in
Speaker 1: law firms. Raiser and they are Some of others did.
Speaker 1: He said, So some of you might think you know
Speaker 1: some things about the law right and some raise your hand.
Speaker 1: He said, you know nothing. Forget everything you've learned, because
Speaker 1: what you're going to learn he is completely different. This
Speaker 1: is nothing like you've ever experienced. And I think that
Speaker 1: every marriage has that element. The next marriage is nothing
Speaker 1: like the last one. It's this marriage that I have now,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, like it's nothing like my ex, my
Speaker 1: last man. And so I had to have a completely
Speaker 1: open mind. For single people out there, you have to
Speaker 1: have a completely open mind. You honestly have to start
Speaker 1: with a blank slate and give everybody a clear new
Speaker 1: chance of impressing you without any expectations. I love that
Speaker 1: and I just realized this. I was like, Oh, you
Speaker 1: guys must have co parented done with the older kids. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: yes we're yes, we're blended fan. So was that difficult?
Speaker 1: And what's the best advice for you know, my my
Speaker 1: co parenting situation, because it can, it has its ups
Speaker 1: and downs. It's co parenting ain't for punks either. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you that too. Yeah, call me, are we
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna have a conversation. Co Parenting is tough.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is whether you're co
Speaker 1: parenting or parenting, or whether you're both of the biological parents.
Speaker 1: I tell people, first of all, never, this is going
Speaker 1: to be a little tough. Never put your children above
Speaker 1: your spouse. Never put your children. Never put your children
Speaker 1: about the ex spouse or the No, I love your
Speaker 1: current spouse. Why what I think that's that's always I
Speaker 1: was going to stop and let the marinate per sect. No,
Speaker 1: I need to what do you like my kids are
Speaker 1: my Your kids are your world, absolutely and they should
Speaker 1: be right now because you're a single parent. Well, once
Speaker 1: you get married. This is what children, This is what
Speaker 1: I found the children need. I love how you let
Speaker 1: that man for a minute. Uh, this is what children need.
Speaker 1: Children need first of all, parents who are happy with
Speaker 1: each other. Mhm. Children need parents who are communicating, who
Speaker 1: are vulnerable, who argue and make up, and so they
Speaker 1: can see that entire progression of having a conflict and
Speaker 1: then knowing how to get out of that conflict and
Speaker 1: then seeing you happy again. I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the healthiest things for children. Things for children is to
Speaker 1: see for them to see that their parents are normal,
Speaker 1: that they're happy, and that they were in love, and
Speaker 1: that they they are a unified front. And I think
Speaker 1: that what I've seen quite often is it when when
Speaker 1: when I see either biological or co parenting situations where
Speaker 1: people have put their children above their parents, the children
Speaker 1: have to choose between whether or not they're going to
Speaker 1: be Uh where where where? Yeah? Where parents have put
Speaker 1: their children above Yeah. Well you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Children to choose between almost like, well, mom is putting
Speaker 1: me again over dad, So then where do I fit
Speaker 1: in this thing? Because if if mom is looking at
Speaker 1: me as more important than Dad, then I must be
Speaker 1: more important to dad, and then I'm going to treat
Speaker 1: Dad accordingly. Or if Dad is putting mom thinks Paul,
Speaker 1: mom is more important than me, then I must be
Speaker 1: more important than mom. And I've seen this. I've seen
Speaker 1: it where I've seen fathers place a higher estimation on
Speaker 1: their children than they do their wives. And the children start,
Speaker 1: the children start treating their mothers like the father does.
Speaker 1: M hm. You know, children don't want to be above
Speaker 1: their parents. Children don't want they don't want to be
Speaker 1: valued higher than their parents. They want their parents to
Speaker 1: be like little gods. They want their parents to be
Speaker 1: higher than them. That gives them security, It gives them
Speaker 1: that kind of feeling that you know, I have someone
Speaker 1: who can protect me. And if both parents are realizing that, hey,
Speaker 1: we are the leaders of this room. We are the
Speaker 1: ones who are taking care of you, and we're always
Speaker 1: a united front and irrespectable. What you bring to the table,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be in sync on it, and we're going
Speaker 1: to be the ones who you will never be able
Speaker 1: to separate us. We'll go through our crap, will argue,
Speaker 1: will be okay, but we're going to be your parents.
Speaker 1: We're going to be in charge. We're the ones who
Speaker 1: are superior. And I hate to say that that way,
Speaker 1: but that's the way it is. Children want that. No,
Speaker 1: it makes that makes sense. I've always you know, I've
Speaker 1: always heard that in like your marriage and then like
Speaker 1: the biological parents. You know, obviously it's like you know,
Speaker 1: I've always I believe it's God and then your spouse
Speaker 1: and then your kids. But it's interesting going into a
Speaker 1: new marriage with kids where it's a stepparent. That's where
Speaker 1: I think it could get a little bit tricky. It's like,
Speaker 1: now these are my kids, but like putting him first.
Speaker 1: So that's where it would be more of a challenge,
Speaker 1: I feel like. And the first thing you have to
Speaker 1: do is eliminate step you know. I I came into
Speaker 1: my daughter's life when she was seven and she's twenty
Speaker 1: one now, and I have she I have never presented
Speaker 1: myself as her stepdad. I'm never calling myself for a stepdad,
Speaker 1: and she has never seen me as her stepdad. I'm
Speaker 1: her dad as far as she's concerned. Now that she
Speaker 1: she has a biological father, she calls him also, you know,
Speaker 1: she refers to him as daddy, But I am her
Speaker 1: biological Well, I tell her, I I joke around and
Speaker 1: tell her I'm a biological dad. That's me. But it's okay.
Speaker 1: I'm sure her dad doesn't listen to this, but I
Speaker 1: am her dad. And even with her, she understands that
Speaker 1: I can't get between you and mom. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: heard the boys say that I never here to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know that whatever I say to you, you're gonna tell,
Speaker 1: You're gonna tell, you know, mom whatever, whatever, because and
Speaker 1: they realized, you know that, hey, it's us against them always,
Speaker 1: even even with the biological children. But you need to
Speaker 1: parents who are going to be who are going to
Speaker 1: be honest and open with these children. I mean, I
Speaker 1: would never treat my my my daughter, my non biological
Speaker 1: daughter any lesson I treat the boys. I just wouldn't
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, I love her like she's like
Speaker 1: I was there in the in the in the delivery
Speaker 1: bo and in your book. Uh, what can readers expect
Speaker 1: when they read Mary Jane for Punks? They can expect
Speaker 1: a very straightforward, hard hitting realistically of marriage. It's not
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of book that glosses over the
Speaker 1: tough issues. Um, we were in the book. We're talking
Speaker 1: about boundaries. I'll give it. I'll give a little example, Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: one story, this is a little is gonna be I'm
Speaker 1: giving a little a little a little depth there is
Speaker 1: might be a little deep. But I talked about we
Speaker 1: don't get deep at all on this podcast, so it's fine,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I talked about one story where
Speaker 1: the wife and the bride and groom they married and
Speaker 1: they were a biracial couple, interracial couple. Well he was okay,
Speaker 1: he was black and she was white, whatever you call that.
Speaker 1: So they got married. I don't know what they they
Speaker 1: got married, but they got married against their parents wishes, um,
Speaker 1: and they were Um. They were married, and they were
Speaker 1: enjoying life and everything. They felt that love could conquer
Speaker 1: all that all we need is love, and so they
Speaker 1: married each other, they had a baby. They were just
Speaker 1: enjoying life until one day he came home. You know,
Speaker 1: he's black and she's white. He came home and he
Speaker 1: was pretty upset about something that happened at work, and
Speaker 1: he felt as though he was he was discriminated against
Speaker 1: Well she um. She responded and said, well you sure.
Speaker 1: He said, well, yeah, I'm sure. She said, well, what
Speaker 1: do you mean, maybe it was something else? Maybe said no,
Speaker 1: I know, because others got this and I didn't get this.
Speaker 1: And so he wanted her to understand that, and she
Speaker 1: she had was a counterpoint, which was fine. And then
Speaker 1: in the middle of their arguing, he said, well, you
Speaker 1: don't understand because your privilege, you never had to deal
Speaker 1: with this, and she she said, well why, well, why
Speaker 1: are you acting like an N word? Oh? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the beginning of the chapter. Oh, oh, my gosh. And
Speaker 1: then she called me, this is an actual situation. I
Speaker 1: changed all the names protectically, but this is an actual story.
Speaker 1: And so I got a phone call saying, hey, eight,
Speaker 1: can you come help us. Our marriage is about the
Speaker 1: fall apart because he walked out, and and so then
Speaker 1: the rest of that chapter I show how we were
Speaker 1: able to establish boundaries and how we were able to
Speaker 1: resolve those issues. And every chapter starts with a story
Speaker 1: about a couple, whether it's infidelity, whether it's bad communication,
Speaker 1: whether it's I don't know, co parenting, or what have you.
Speaker 1: Each chapter starts with a real life story or loosely
Speaker 1: based on a real life situation because I can't I
Speaker 1: can't tell every about business, but it's based on a
Speaker 1: real life situation. And then throughout that chapter I show
Speaker 1: you how we resolve those issues. Wow. Well, I just
Speaker 1: cannot thank you enough for coming on the show. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to read the book. And um, where can
Speaker 1: our listeners find you? You can find me on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I am Calvin Robertson. Uh. You can buy the book
Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. And let me just say that
Speaker 1: book is for everyone, because I think when I was
Speaker 1: writing it, I intentionally wrote it for married people, single
Speaker 1: people who are thinking about getting married, people who are divorced.
Speaker 1: Whatever stage you're in, you're going to find something in
Speaker 1: this book. Even if you want to know how to
Speaker 1: how to remove yourself from certain people. Uh, and still
Speaker 1: remains silk everyone. I just want to say, wherever you
Speaker 1: are in your in the spectrum of relationships, the book
Speaker 1: will we'll have something for you. That's awesome. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show. This is
Speaker 1: the true joy. So thank you. It was such a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. You did great. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you. You're so sweet. I love your energy. Thank you.
Speaker 1: This is you guys are awesome. Thank you you guys.
Speaker 1: Right bye? Oh god, I loved him going to buy
Speaker 1: the book, being up on the book. Yes, uh no,
Speaker 1: that was good because that's gotta be tough. I mean,
Speaker 1: you didn't marry so young that you have to be
Speaker 1: totally different than the girl that you married, that that
Speaker 1: he you know that he married. Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: such a good point, like you realize that. But like
Speaker 1: him saying it, I was like, oh, yeah, like I
Speaker 1: know I've changed as I'm twenty, but like it's such
Speaker 1: a good point. How much you change in those he changes,
Speaker 1: I change, and how do you reconnect like new people essentially,
Speaker 1: which is crazy. I don't know, it's a lot, but yeah,
Speaker 1: would it be too much for you to read the
Speaker 1: book together? Hey? You know what I'm with, cal I think,
Speaker 1: you know, the personal therapy on our own, on our own,
Speaker 1: and then some couples therapy. I think it is probably
Speaker 1: are we doing individual therapy? I gotta call Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: proud of you. That's like we've done it before. To
Speaker 1: just spen a long time. But he brought up a
Speaker 1: really really great point. Sometimes it's not about the other person.
Speaker 1: It's about yourself, which I you know, I've acknowledged about myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's so hard though, but when you do, it's good.
Speaker 1: You start to not point the finger and shoot, it's
Speaker 1: time for me to look in the mirror. That's not
Speaker 1: fun times. Um A well fun show. And oh we're
Speaker 1: going to be in Vegas this weekend. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: and you're coming with me girlfriends, so uh, let's let's
Speaker 1: take some wine for this one. Yes, yeah, okay, it'll
Speaker 1: be fine. I can't wait. Fine,