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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share.

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Speaker 2: She does an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com. Trust me, trust me, I'm like a squat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to trust Me podcast about cults and extreme belief

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Speaker 1: and the abuse of power from two stands, we've actually

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Speaker 1: experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I am Lo La Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 5: And today our guest is the Monia Ali.

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Speaker 1: She's a former One Direction stan so Stan means docer

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Speaker 1: plus fan, that is those two words combined. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about how she was involved with various fandoms

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Speaker 1: from a young age, ultimately landing in the one Direction fandom,

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Speaker 1: but not as a teenager as you might think, and

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Speaker 1: how she ended up in a corner of the one

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Speaker 1: direction fandom that was obsessed with one particular conspiracy theory

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Speaker 1: and just how common that is.

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Speaker 2: She'll tell us about how the group was posed to

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Speaker 2: believe whatever the leadership told them, how everyone turned against

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Speaker 2: her when she didn't hold the party line, why fans

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Speaker 2: became so aggressive on the Internet, and the role of

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Speaker 2: identity and community and fandom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this feels as relevant as ever this episode. So Megan,

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Speaker 1: before we talk about that, can you tell me what

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Speaker 1: your culty is thing is this week?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Sure, Well, this this story brought up a lot

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Speaker 2: for me, a lot that I'm really not you know,

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Speaker 2: desperate to relive or anything.

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Speaker 4: But a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Ago, I was involved in a podcast that might have

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Speaker 2: gotten a little bit culty, and when I stepped away

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Speaker 2: from said podcast, I started getting like death threats.

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Speaker 5: I love that you're laughing about.

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Speaker 2: It was so awful just looking back, it's so crazy

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Speaker 2: how fast it went from zero to sixty. So I

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Speaker 2: can't even imagine today's episode dealing with like world famous stars,

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Speaker 2: how quickly these things can escalate.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I think our.

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Speaker 2: Guest was just so awesome and smart, and so it's

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Speaker 2: it's not as easy to what's the word, just like

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Speaker 2: brush it away as like, oh they're stupid. It's it's

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Speaker 2: easy to get overly involved in something.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, what is your cultiest thing? It just

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Speaker 1: reminded you of this past experience where you got death threats.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because I stepped away from it.

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Speaker 5: Right, was that like in your dms? In your email?

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Speaker 5: Were people calling you?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 4: It was all mostly dms?

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Speaker 2: I think one person, Yeah, one person called me, uh

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Speaker 2: but that was the extent of the phone calls.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, just dms every day.

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Speaker 2: One of them I actually had to make public because

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Speaker 2: she was like a kind of famous radio DJ in

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Speaker 2: Florida who was like, whoa so violently dming me?

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Speaker 4: Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was just kind of scared that her

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Speaker 2: fans would, like somebody would get scared. And then the

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Speaker 2: podcast was connected to a very popular reality show, so

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Speaker 2: those fans were a little bit out there sometimes, and

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Speaker 2: it was just a big fat culty mess.

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Speaker 1: We need to be teaching kids in elementary school about

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Speaker 1: internet etiquette, yea. And I was just like the basic

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Speaker 1: Like we used to do anti bullying seminar.

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Speaker 5: Actually, my mom and my brother and I would do.

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Speaker 1: My mom have these like anti bullying school assembly.

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Speaker 5: Things that she would.

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Speaker 1: Go around doing the schools, and I did one or

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Speaker 1: two with her with her and my brother when I

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Speaker 1: was a ventriloquist.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, how old were you when you did this?

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Speaker 5: I was like from nine to twelve ish.

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Speaker 2: And did you ever ironically get bullied from doing the

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Speaker 2: anti bullying Triloquist?

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't because I was homeschooled, so nobody

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Speaker 1: knew enough to bully me. But I honestly felt really

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Speaker 1: cool doing it because I was like, I'm on stage

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Speaker 1: and they're not, you know, homeschool flags love it. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, bullying was a thing we

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Speaker 1: would always talk about in real life in school and

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Speaker 1: something an issue we would try to tackle societally. But

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Speaker 1: people don't think of people they don't know on the internet.

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Speaker 1: They don't think of that as bullying, right. I feel

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Speaker 1: like bullying is associated with like people you know from

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Speaker 1: school and like being mean.

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Speaker 5: To like other kids or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Right, But like reaching out to you know, just like

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Speaker 1: a random person on Instagram or a somewhat public figure

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Speaker 1: like also qualifies and is also extremely damaging when you

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Speaker 1: were telling them that they're ugly or to kill themselves

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Speaker 1: or whatever, which is why you know, my friend we

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Speaker 1: talked about in the episode was what she's experiencing right now.

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Speaker 5: I just don't understand it. I'm like, yeah, it's.

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Speaker 1: Not aggressive, y'all, like chill out, Like even if you

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Speaker 1: don't like the person you're really gonna go after them

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Speaker 1: to that extent.

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Speaker 2: But she explains it so perfectly in this episode of

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Speaker 2: Why that Happens, And I know, luckily for me, I

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Speaker 2: got a lot of apology. Jeez, most people have apologized now,

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Speaker 2: I think just because more information was revealed and a

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Speaker 2: million other things. Plus I think time passes and people

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Speaker 2: are like, well that was crazy. But it sounds like

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Speaker 2: the world that she got drawn into is just very

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Speaker 2: uh stuck. It feels like they're never gonna say sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean it's I think that's great

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Speaker 1: that a lot of them apologize, and some of the

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Speaker 1: people on my friend's page, like she posted, like why

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Speaker 1: are you all sending me death threats?

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Speaker 5: And some of them have now changed their tune.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know. Obviously this is something we

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Speaker 1: discussed in the episode. But it's still a mystery. It's

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Speaker 1: still like I get like rallying behind someone and like

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Speaker 1: being against whoever you think harmed them. Yes, but it's

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Speaker 1: the extreme people that I'm like, what, why?

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Speaker 5: How?

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Speaker 3: Who? What? Hair?

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Speaker 4: Where?

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Speaker 5: We and we will discuss that further.

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Speaker 4: Yeah we will.

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Speaker 2: One percent, is what she says. Yeah, what about you?

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Speaker 4: What's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna mention a controversial topic here. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: mention the Amber Heard Johnny Depp trial. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna go too deep into it because people have

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Speaker 1: really strong opinions about it, and a lot of those

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Speaker 1: people are seeing really one sided videos and information. I

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Speaker 1: just think that the Internet's reaction to Amber Heard, even

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Speaker 1: if you do think that she is a liar, is

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Speaker 1: so extreme and so scary m hm, and so vitriolic

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Speaker 1: and full of hate.

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Speaker 5: What is driving that extreme level of hate?

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Speaker 1: And I wonder is it just like Johnny Depp has

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Speaker 1: extreme fans, But I don't think so, because it's people

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Speaker 1: I know too are getting caught up in this, Like

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Speaker 1: I fucking hate her. She's horrible, She's an evil monster,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, she might suck, but there are

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Speaker 1: all There is also like a pretty good amount of

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Speaker 1: evidence that he did indeed abuse her, like yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like that is really really getting overlooked. And like,

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Speaker 1: even if you believe it was mutual abuse or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a complicated situation. It seems like or

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Speaker 1: they both are shitty in different ways, but the level

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Speaker 1: of hate is scary to me and feels like culturally

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Speaker 1: we are getting set back ten years, especially because now

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Speaker 1: as a result of it, we kind of have talked

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Speaker 1: about this on our own, but it seems like there's

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Speaker 1: now this like wave of support for Marilyn Manson, there's

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Speaker 1: this wave of support for all of these other guys.

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Speaker 1: They're like, now we're going to vindicate them, and I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not what this is.

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Speaker 5: That is not what this is.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I definitely think Amber Heard is maybe not

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Speaker 2: the greatest person in the world.

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Speaker 4: I didn't follow the case at all.

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Speaker 2: I think that Johnny Depp is best friends with Marilyn Manson,

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Speaker 2: that's the godfather of his children, and that's enough for

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Speaker 2: me to think, hey, maybe not a great guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, my first date with Marilyn Manson was

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Speaker 1: at Johnny Depp's house.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, he wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: He had like free access to his houses and was

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Speaker 1: like doing the same exact thing that they described, which

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Speaker 1: is like drinking vodka like its water, throwing bottles, did

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing. I saw him throw a bottle

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Speaker 1: at someone like, which I completely forgot about. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I and all of our talk about Marilyn Manson, I

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Speaker 1: forgot that he behaved all the same ways that Johnny

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Speaker 1: Depp has been said to behave, which is like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't see him do any kind of sexual abuse.

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Speaker 5: Obviously he didn't do that to me.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of the belligerent drunkness, like just being

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Speaker 1: unpredictable and violent.

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Speaker 5: That was definitely there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know, guys, I just think, listen, listen.

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Speaker 1: Whatever conclusions we come to make sure that where you're

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Speaker 1: getting your information from is like, you know, I hate

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Speaker 1: this phrase now because it feels like it's been hijacked

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Speaker 1: by anti vaxxers, but do your own research, don't get

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Speaker 1: it from TikTok. TikTok is really fucking biased, y'all. It

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Speaker 1: is so the shit that goes viral is the stuff

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Speaker 1: that's like, yeah, black and white. It boils things down

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Speaker 1: into this really like simple, easy, tied in a bow conclusion,

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Speaker 1: and that's not how life works.

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Speaker 5: It's not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I know, before we started this, I

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Speaker 2: was just like I just saw some evidence that maybe

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Speaker 2: she was hitting herself and then making the marks and

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah, like Again, I didn't follow

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Speaker 2: the trial. I have no idea what's going on, but

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Speaker 2: it seems to be extremely absurd. It just seems to

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Speaker 2: me like two drag addicts torturing each other.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, we'll never know exactly what transpired between them,

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Speaker 1: but the videos that are getting circulated are all his

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Speaker 1: side and not her side, which she has multiple witnesses, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: multiple witnesses testifying to things, including people who do not

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Speaker 1: have a skin in the game.

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Speaker 5: That's all. So, I'm not saying she's a good person.

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Speaker 1: I don't know her might very well be super manipulative,

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Speaker 1: but that's not what this trial was about. This trial

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Speaker 1: was about was she lying when she came forward and

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Speaker 1: said that she had experienced abuse. That is a different thing.

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Speaker 4: I agreed.

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Speaker 1: Also, the jury was not sequestered for the most high

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Speaker 1: profile trial in fucking years, which ye blows my mind.

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Speaker 1: How is that possible, especially considering the level of bias

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Speaker 1: on the internet, and the jury is not sequestered during

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Speaker 1: those weeks like that seems crazy to me.

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Speaker 4: It's all too weird.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, what I'm saying is just stop having opinions on

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Speaker 1: the Internet.

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Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you guys, just be nice to people on the internet,

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Speaker 2: ignore what you're seeing, and just say.

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Speaker 4: Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Especially if those people are us and you don't agree

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Speaker 2: with what we just said.

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Speaker 1: Please don't bombardo us with Johnny Deppy extremists. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: so let's get into more fan culture now, shall we.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Monia Ali to trust me. Thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 5: thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: I am really really interested in your story because I

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Speaker 1: feel like fandom has come up so much in the

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Speaker 1: past few weeks and how toxic it can be, and

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Speaker 1: it's a world I don't personally know anything about, Megan, do.

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Speaker 4: You kind of?

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Speaker 2: I haven't personally been a huge fan of anything, which

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Speaker 2: I wish I was.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's a bad statement on myself.

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Speaker 2: So, but my sister gets very into Twilight or like

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Speaker 2: Panic get the disco and goes full stop into it.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, I feel like I want to know more

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Speaker 3: about this Panic fandom because I was in the early

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Speaker 3: days peripherally in the emo scene. No, and I know

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Speaker 3: Panic is like completely changed from where they were.

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Speaker 1: Let's familiarize people with your background. So you are a

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Speaker 1: former one direction Stan would you say yes, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: And can you define STAN for anyone who doesn't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. I feel like it's really important to differentiate

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Speaker 3: stands from just regular fans, because fans are just people

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Speaker 3: who joy something. Once you hit STAN, you have this

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Speaker 3: sort of dedication that is part of your identity. It's

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Speaker 3: the people that do the update accounts for an example,

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Speaker 3: like it's people who run fashion updates who just like

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Speaker 3: spend their days keeping up with things and wanting to

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Speaker 3: serve quote unquote the community.

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Speaker 1: So it's just like another level of devotion to the

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Speaker 1: like artist or show or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 4: And so easy to exploit exactly.

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Speaker 3: I found a term called participatory stardom, and that was

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Speaker 3: used to refer to like how music industry sort of

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Speaker 3: gets fans to participate and feel like sort of the

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Speaker 3: reflection of someone's celebrity, so that it feels like they're

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Speaker 3: participating and all the good things also reflect on them.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, yes, that is a stand. That's what

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Speaker 3: stands are. They celebrate all of the amazing accomplishments, all

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Speaker 3: the money, even though it's like, you know, they spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of money, but they'll be super high STAN.

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Speaker 1: I just feel like because some of our listeners might be

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Speaker 1: not gen z Stan comes from.

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Speaker 5: From the eminem song right, Yeah, from the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: So where did your fandom journey begin, Like you're saying

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Speaker 1: you started in the Emo days, Like how did it

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Speaker 1: kind of happen and what appealed to you about it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like fandom was a thing for me before I

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Speaker 3: even knew what fandom was. I was online when I

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Speaker 3: was like eleven twelve and I was in love with

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Speaker 3: the show Party of Five. Obviously, you know, it just

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Speaker 3: hit me right, you know, in that twelve year old brain,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I got to make a website

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Speaker 3: because I just want to collect quotes. And I just

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Speaker 3: used like a soft like some random software that was

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Speaker 3: on my computer, and I had no idea how to

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Speaker 3: get this online. So I'm just like building up website

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Speaker 3: that never you know, made it online. It's fine. A

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Speaker 3: couple of years later, I actually figured out.

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Speaker 4: Nice, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I did get it online, so everything's good.

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Speaker 3: I did get on top of that. I learned I

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Speaker 3: learned HTML, I learned CSS, all of that. For like

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Speaker 3: a brief five year window, I was like on top

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Speaker 3: of the online coding and then it switched into like

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Speaker 3: PHP and JavaScript, and I was like, this is too

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Speaker 3: complicated for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I did make a fan site when I was

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Speaker 1: twelve for Frankie Munyez from Malcolm in the Middle.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I totally made an angel Fire website, yes, because

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Speaker 1: I was so in love with Frankie Munyaz. And then

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Speaker 1: I think I used it like two more times after that,

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Speaker 1: but I did make one.

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Speaker 3: Wo Yeah, mine was on GeoCities nice for the show Roswell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was a great way to start, but

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Speaker 3: they are so limited, like you just pulled photos in

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Speaker 3: and just wrote stuff, and I was like, no, I

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Speaker 3: wanted to learn how to do more. And at the time,

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Speaker 3: people who owned domains would offer to host other people sites,

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Speaker 3: so you got like web space on their domain for free,

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Speaker 3: so that you wouldn't have to go like GeoCities, dot

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Speaker 3: com slash mlout. But now you could just be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's just five by five net slash a mon. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's me.

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Speaker 4: Easy, easy.

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Speaker 3: It seemed way cooler. Yeah, So I just did that

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Speaker 3: for a while, and you know, the websites were fun.

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Speaker 3: There was basically a loose online community through these websites

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Speaker 3: and then I switched over to live journal, and that

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Speaker 3: wasn't even more apparent community and that's sort of where

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Speaker 3: Emo Bandam came in and other TV shows and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that, and that was great fun fan fiction graphics

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Speaker 3: icons like just general talk. And then later on as

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Speaker 3: live journal died because it was sold to Russians, so

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Speaker 3: there was some Russia phobia or however we want to

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Speaker 3: call it, even back then. And then Tumblr took over,

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Speaker 3: and I think Tumblr is one of the big reasons

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Speaker 3: why everything is such a mess now because there is

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Speaker 3: no gatekeeping whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: And that's the heartbreaking thing is because I feel like

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Speaker 2: Tumbler started for people really needing a connection and then

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Speaker 2: it turned so bullying.

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Speaker 4: It sucks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think part of that is probably the

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Speaker 3: user interfaces and the way that it's used, because there's

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Speaker 3: anonymous messages, there's the way that you can add on things,

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Speaker 3: and how posts will never be deleted. You delete your blog,

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Speaker 3: you can do that, but if someone has reblogged your posts, shit,

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Speaker 3: they are still out there.

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Speaker 5: Oh I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like a big deal. I feel like because

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Speaker 3: it allows old theories to constantly resurface and just gain

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Speaker 3: new steam because you're not going to see that like, oh,

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Speaker 3: actually this has been debunked one hundred reblogs ago, right

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Speaker 3: and so on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah wow, okay, So how did One Direction come to

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Speaker 1: be the object of your fandom?

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Speaker 3: It was completely by mistake, a terrible mistake on my part.

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Speaker 3: I was just like looking around and I had been

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Speaker 3: warned about One Direction fans before. The way that people

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Speaker 3: talk about K pop armies these days was basically how

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Speaker 3: people were like, stay away from those crazies. So I

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Speaker 3: was just looking around at stuff because I knew I

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Speaker 3: knew some people who were really into them, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, this is so weird. These people all believe

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Speaker 3: crazy things, and just reading on their theories and then

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Speaker 3: like what.

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Speaker 4: Would be one of them? What would be one of

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Speaker 4: the crazy things?

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Speaker 3: Oh, one of the crazy theories was that Zane leaving

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Speaker 3: the band was a publicity stunt.

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Speaker 5: Okay okay, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And this is a fandom that is was incredibly information focused.

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Speaker 3: So there would be these big blogs that collected all

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Speaker 3: the business information and like filings of companies, whether it's

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Speaker 3: the touring company or all of those types of things.

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Speaker 3: So you would see like there's been a filing that

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Speaker 3: removes Zane as one of the future beneficiaries of whatever,

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Speaker 3: and then you'd have those fans being like, yeah, but

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Speaker 3: this is part of the pr stunt. This as part

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Speaker 3: of it because they know that we're looking at it.

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Speaker 3: They know that we're looking at it.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, So question for you, how old were

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Speaker 1: you when this began?

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Speaker 3: I was a grown up. I was a full ass

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Speaker 3: grown up, like twenty nine.

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Speaker 4: Okay. I think that's even more poignant.

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Speaker 1: When I talked to my friends about people on the

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Speaker 1: internet who like get in become stands and bully or whatever,

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Speaker 1: we're always like, well, it must be kids, right, it

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Speaker 1: must be just kids, It really is. What is your

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Speaker 1: perception of that? Yeah, yeah, tell us, yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, it isn't kids. Overwhelmingly, I think it would depend

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Speaker 3: on the platforms. For example, you've got Watchpad, which is

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Speaker 3: a corporate platform, and a lot of younger fans are

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Speaker 3: there and write a lot of stories there. But then

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Speaker 3: you have the fan run archive of our own also

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Speaker 3: called a three for short, and that's run by fans

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Speaker 3: who have been around like since since way back when.

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Speaker 3: They even have a quote unquote next of kin option,

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Speaker 3: because like, at one point you'll probably pass away and

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Speaker 3: then like what do you want to happen to all

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Speaker 3: of your fan works? Yeah, so these people are way

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Speaker 3: older and they've all experienced, you know, life cycle, so

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Speaker 3: they've not through everything.

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Speaker 4: It's almost like the church and the youth group.

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Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 4: It's like a weird divide.

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Speaker 2: But like we're propably you to get really into the

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Speaker 2: adult version.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, although there is like what's really interesting right now

397
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Speaker 3: is a lot of the younger fans because they don't

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Speaker 3: have the sense of like history, which also sounds like

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00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 3: a real grandma thing, but they get very aggressive about

400
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Speaker 3: certain things and seem to be like, adults shouldn't be here.

401
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Speaker 3: This is not a space for you. And it's like

402
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Speaker 3: the Internet isn't a space for adults, right, what are

403
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Speaker 3: you talking about? Like, are you okay? That's not how

404
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 3: it works. Yeah, they get very very angry if there's

405
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Speaker 3: adults around and stuff like that. But this is like

406
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Speaker 3: specific groups. I think I didn't realize that there were

407
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Speaker 3: so many young people in the way that these days

408
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 3: people will so often just advertise their age, right, They'll

409
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 3: say like sixteen, here's my gender, is my pronouns, here's

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Speaker 3: where I work. Like every single aspect of their life

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Speaker 3: is like up there, and you're like, should you be

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Speaker 3: sharing that? Right? I feel like that's like the new

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Speaker 3: era where they're like, that's scary advertising who they are

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Speaker 3: because they want to get you know, whoever they attract,

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Speaker 3: except for the adults. But it's also like should you

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Speaker 3: be sharing all of that information? Just like right there? Right?

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Speaker 1: So, like everyone's kind of hunting for information. They've got

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. Is it like posting photos like how are

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Speaker 1: people actually engaging with their own adoration or whatever?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So, well there's manifestos, there's always like, oh, you

421
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 3: want to learn about this, and then there's like big

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00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 3: long master posts, and then there's the group of people

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00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 3: that you sort of learn after a while are the

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Speaker 3: people that have like you know, quote unquote access to

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Speaker 3: things and we'll quote unquote know stuff. And those people

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Speaker 3: are usually engaging in illegal activities to get a lot

427
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Speaker 3: of that information, like tracking flights, oh, using freaking flyer

428
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: numbers to sort of track where the band members were

429
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Speaker 3: at the time. So they'd be like, I just have

430
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Speaker 3: an idea that someone is going to be popping up

431
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 3: in LA at like eleven, and then you see that happen,

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Speaker 3: You're like WHOA, Right, how did you know that? It's like, oh,

433
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 3: you know, I just figure because I saw him in London.

434
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Speaker 3: And then also I figured out that that's what was

435
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Speaker 3: going to happen. No, you knew because you saw this

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Speaker 3: person born in a flight on the way. Wow.

437
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Speaker 2: But it's like creating that QAnon effect where you're getting

438
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Speaker 2: dopamine hits of like WHOA secret information.

439
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Speaker 4: It's all coming together and turned out to be true.

440
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then the whole Bear stuff is basically what

442
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Speaker 3: really like fundamentally sucked me in finally.

443
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 4: What is that?

444
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 3: So basically there was a rainbow colored teddy bear from

445
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 3: Build a Bear that was thrown on stage or towards

446
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 3: the stage and like twenty fourteen, and this bear sort

447
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 3: of hung around, was photographed, was put up on stage,

448
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 3: got some tape put on it so that it looked

449
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: like a BDSM outfit. They called him Rainbow Bondage Bear,

450
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 3: and then you know, tour ends and all that, and

451
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 3: then the last tour was twenty fifteen and then the

452
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: bear showed up again. But it wasn't just having a

453
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 3: bit of gaffer tape. It had like full on outfits

454
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 3: all of a sudden and full on little tableaus that

455
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: it was part of, like fireman's studs or like a

456
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 3: wedding dress. And then here's this one, like all of

457
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 3: these crazy outfits wow, in every single.

458
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: On Instagram or at the shows.

459
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 3: At the shows, like physically on stage, like at the

460
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,719
Speaker 3: corner of the stage, it would be set up.

461
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, so wild.

462
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll just say, we don't know who did this.

463
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 3: We don't know. This is another conspiracy thing, right. There's

464
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 3: people who say it was just some crew member, you know,

465
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 3: who decided to do this, which I'm like, I mean

466
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 3: it's possible, but they would have to like that would

467
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 3: have had to be known by higher ups in some way, right,

468
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: Like there's no way a billion dollar brand just lets

469
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,479
Speaker 3: let some crew member run loose with like Teddy Bears,

470
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: right right, Because later on there was a quote unquote

471
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: official Twitter account created for this Bear that was followed

472
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: by one of the band members. Like when I say

473
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 3: band member, I mean like the musicians that played behind

474
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: the scenes.

475
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: And we're still talking about one direction if there's any confusion, okay, yeah.

476
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: And he followed it, so everyone was like, oh my god,

477
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: this is like a real account, like someone official is

478
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: running this, and there would be photos when there weren't

479
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 3: tour dates, and there were photos that came from the

480
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 3: promotional tour when they were in Mexico and when they

481
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 3: were in La and you're like, oh, okay, so this

482
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 3: bear is with you, guys is with the entourage somehow.

483
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: And then the peak was towards I think it was

484
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 3: like the last show where now suddenly there was an

485
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: iPhone there with a phone number taped on it, and

486
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: because this is all broadcast, you know, worldwide, like people

487
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: at the show take a photo of it, so that

488
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 3: now the phone number is online. So fans online started

489
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: texting that number and said like, if you see my

490
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: message on the phone, please take a photo of There

491
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 3: is a photo of like a text that says like

492
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 3: please take a photo of my text if this actually

493
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: comes through and kissing. So it's like, okay, this number

494
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 3: does respond to this phone, and a lot of fans

495
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 3: use that as a like, oh my god, these are

496
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 3: messages that they're giving to us. I mean, included the

497
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: last post that they that they put in My thing

498
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: of writing, which is like you know, we'll be back,

499
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: you know, don't go anywhere. I was part of the

500
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: conspiracy that was like the band is obviously coming back,

501
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: and when you have like that Teddy Bears tell you

502
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: that they are, like, why wouldn't you believe it?

503
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 4: Was there a bigger meaning to it all, like One.

504
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: Direction has some positive thing that they're going to do

505
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 2: for the world. Or was it just like they're so

506
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 2: good that they're just giving us some relief and it's

507
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: just about the music, or was it bigger than that.

508
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: Well, it kind of depends on what side of the

509
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: fandom you're looking at.

510
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 4: I see.

511
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 3: I think overwhelmingly it was about changing the industry in

512
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: a way because they were going to challenge those contracts,

513
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: those awful contracts that boy bands always are exposed to,

514
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: which I'll add a side note. The sad thing is

515
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: that Baxter Boys basically did what we all thought One

516
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 3: Direction would do, and they're already out there. So if

517
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 3: you want to like celebrate a boy band that like

518
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: broke the mold, right backs to Boys is out there.

519
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: They're still touring, you know, they're doing brand. Yeah. But yeah,

520
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 3: that was basically and I think even the people that

521
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: thought Zayn left as pr were like, he's gonna come

522
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: back and they're going to rebrand and it's it's gonna

523
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: be like a massive you know, like f you to

524
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 3: Simon Cowell and Sony.

525
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 2: Got You, got You, So there were bad guys villains

526
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: got oh.

527
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, just in case people don't understand, like don't know.

528
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: Zain is one of the main members of One Direction

529
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: who left Simon Cowell obviously the host of American Idol

530
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: and all the shows they all met on The X Factor.

531
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct. He put them together in a band,

532
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 3: and I mean the way those shows work is that

533
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 3: you get a deal with his label, which was basically

534
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 3: just an offshoot off of Sony in the UK, and

535
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: it's a garbage label. It doesn't exist anymore because the

536
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: only success they had was One Direction. Like if you

537
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 3: look at the list of artists that's like up to forty,

538
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 3: they're all like they all got shelved, just like kind

539
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: of ruined.

540
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 5: Shere Lloyd Fifth Harmony. Yeah.

541
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: So basically like you got into the corner of the

542
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: fandom that is like One Direction is staying together, Harry

543
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: Styles is not leaving.

544
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 5: This is all just to like mess with us.

545
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it wasn't even that unbelievable for like a while.

546
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: I think it's standard policy on behalf of these groups

547
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: to not necessarily say that you're you're done, because you

548
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: want to have like if it doesn't work, you want

549
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: to be able to just return, and you also want

550
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: the fans to stay alert, right and jump on the

551
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: next thing. It's so mean, it is really really mean. Yes,

552
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: thank you. Yeah, because they said eighteen months. They said

553
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: there was going to be an eighteen months, so yeah, yeah,

554
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: so it's not like they were just like like we're

555
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: gone now.

556
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like making people keep hype for eighteen months,

557
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: where you said that they were starting their own like yes,

558
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: book clubs and movie clubs, like we're gonna get through it, guys,

559
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: just eighteen months and it's like.

560
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 4: Just tell people you're not coming back and what.

561
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the quote, that quote that everyone was clinging

562
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: to was like nothing has changed and the band members

563
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: will give you updates themselves, which by the way, they

564
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 3: never did.

565
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 5: I mean it makes sense.

566
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

567
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: I like when I was a kid, I was like

568
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: obsessed with the Spice Girls, like I have my room

569
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: is like plastered with Spice Girls stuff.

570
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 5: And they did break up.

571
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: Well oh my gosh, I mean yeah, they've been touring

572
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: together again. Like on some level, it's like do they

573
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: ever really break up because they're definitely going to tour

574
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: again together when.

575
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: Later the thing is I and I think this is standard,

576
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: Like justin Timberlake didn't tell and say that he was leaving.

577
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: I mean, Harry didn't tell them that he was done.

578
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: He was meeting with Grammy winning producers like right away,

579
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: like they had their last shows December.

580
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 4: And he's like here, I am, oh wow.

581
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: I think all stands are conspiracists because they all have

582
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 3: this perfected idea of the person that they're standing or

583
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: the group, and that's why they will get so aggressive

584
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: whenever something comes in that goes against their idea. It

585
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 3: will turn into this thing where like that can't be true.

586
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: That can't be true, that can't be true. Because all

587
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: of the friends that I had back in the day

588
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: that were also like Harry loves the band now are

589
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 3: like he's hostage. You got to free him. He doesn't

590
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: like what's going on. It's like because they can't accept

591
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: that he would be doing this out of his own

592
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: free will basically, and that goes for any any artist.

593
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: Like I'm just like, this is just the one that

594
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: I really know more about but yeah.

595
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean it really is cultic in that way. What

596
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: do you think is it like that you've found like

597
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: an identity, a community, Like why do you think people

598
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: get so obsessed?

599
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: Definitely the community, But I think part of what's going on,

600
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: And this might seem like I'm shifting the blame, but

601
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: I did find out that this is really being cultivated

602
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: by marketers and by industry. Like I borrowed a book

603
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: about Lady Gaga's marketing strategy from the library and I

604
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: was like, we'll see what's in here. It's probably just

605
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: like standard stuff, but there was like a whole list

606
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: that was like, we're looking for the one percent, the

607
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: most intense fans. We want the evangelists, we want the

608
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: people who believe that this is bigger than themselves and

609
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: this is a mission. Fuck, there's an inner drive and

610
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: an inner zeal. They're the people that are going to

611
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: make it happen. And I'm like, so stance right.

612
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: And they are the people who are going to make

613
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: it happen.

614
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 5: Well, that's true.

615
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean as a music artist myself, historically, like that

616
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: would always be the thing that people would talk about

617
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: with me, is like you need to find your like

618
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: hardcore fans, because those are going to be the ones

619
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: who like propel your career as an artist, like you

620
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: do need fans, so like it just seems logical. From

621
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: the other side, it's like, well, of course I need

622
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: fans who are like really into my shit, because that's

623
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: how I continue, you know. But then it is interesting

624
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: when it's like we're feeding them like little things like

625
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: make them crazy, and it seems I think on the

626
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: artist side of things, or like the label side of things,

627
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: it seems like it's kind of all in good fun

628
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: because it's just like they're hungry for it and they

629
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: want it, so let's get you know, feed it to them.

630
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: But of course that can go too far.

631
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: Sometimes it can go too far, And I think I

632
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: don't know how much the people that are in charge

633
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: know slash care about the actual communities that end up

634
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: being affected, because one of the things that they'll do

635
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 3: is and this I've seen I've read about happening with

636
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: multiple artists, and you'll see it and you realize this

637
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: is true. You'll see the same people showing up randomly

638
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: running into Liam or Mile or Harry or like, oh

639
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: my god, my life is made just saw you and

640
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: you're like, I recognize this person, and then you go

641
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: back you're like, wait, you've met them like ten times

642
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: in various places in the world because they have some

643
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 3: sort of connection that says go here, you know, and

644
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: then you'll meet them. So that provides a setup safe

645
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: fan service that then gets to be spread online so

646
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: that people know like, oh my god, if I was

647
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: just walking around, I could run into them. But it's

648
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: not actually like it's not as serendipitous as it looks,

649
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: and there are some instances where it seems very strange.

650
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: Like I remember super early on Harry's birthday is like

651
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: beginning of February and his manager's birthday is the end

652
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: of January, and I remember there was a big party

653
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: for his manager and there were well I call them

654
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: stalkers because they show up everywhere, but there were stalkers

655
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: at the party that were invited to his manager's birthday party,

656
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: which to me, I'm like, why are you there? Oh wow,

657
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: Like that's just weird to me. But we know that

658
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: there is those kinds of perks and stuff like that

659
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: because that's how update accounts work too, like they'll get

660
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: information to spread wow.

661
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 1: So you know, Robert Jay Lifton has his eight criteria

662
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: for thought reform, and one of them is mystical manipulation.

663
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: And it sounds like kind of generating these like moments

664
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: of as as you know, we've emailed about a little

665
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: bit of like awe or what seems like kind of

666
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: magical or larger than life, like this really special moments,

667
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: which that can be so mythical. Yeah, intoxicating because you're like,

668
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: that could happen to me.

669
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 5: I could get that.

670
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: If you believe enough, you'll run into him at Starbucks,

671
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: if you have the secret location.

672
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: It's so funny that you wouldn't even say that, because

673
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: there was a actually like a six month run where

674
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: Louie would go to a particular Starbucks. Oh really, and

675
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: fans could just show up and it was like, this

676
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: is like a planned right fan service, because everyone can

677
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: fure out what Starbucks this is wow showing up. At

678
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: the same time, you're like, this is very planned.

679
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: So tell us about the blog that you got into,

680
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: the one that was obsessed with this particular conspiracy theory,

681
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: had that happen, and who is running it?

682
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: So there's multiple people and you can sort of tell.

683
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: So the difference with Tumblr and Twitter is also that

684
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: on Tumblr, you can't see how many followers someone has,

685
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: so you don't really know that someone is a big

686
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: blog until you follow them for a while and you

687
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: start noticing they get asks and they sort of, you know,

688
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: give answers that end up kind of spreading and steering

689
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: the conversation. So at first you'll be like, oh, well,

690
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: I disagree with that this person, but that's okay because

691
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: we can all have our own opinions. And then the

692
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: posts start mounting and it's in the thousands of notes

693
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: and now it's everywhere, and now it's the new fandom truth,

694
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, I thought we thought critically about

695
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: everything we received, and not that we created narratives that

696
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: then were so easy to deconstruct. It was sort of

697
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: noticed like which blogs would get like a lot of numbers,

698
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: and I didn't really think, I guess that there was

699
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 3: this much of an impact until I was ousted, because

700
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: then I was like, oh, oh, okay, this really does matter.

701
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 3: And it was later on that I found out that

702
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: like a lot of those blogs, I have like screenshots

703
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 3: and everything because I managed to get friends with people

704
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: who had all of this, but they were these blogs

705
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 3: were gathering together and were like deciding how to address

706
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: rumors and how to you know, calm people down if

707
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 3: something happened that would make the fans upset, Like if

708
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: there's rumors about solo Harry, you got to make sure

709
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: to shut it down immediately, which is also why the

710
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 3: fans were so indoctrinated into really believing it, because it

711
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 3: was just repeated over and over.

712
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like one direction of Illuminati.

713
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, exactly, And it's it's so easy when you're

714
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: on the outside to look at it and be like, well, duh,

715
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 3: this is all just random people saying things. But when

716
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 3: you've been in the community for a while, you get

717
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 3: to know the users and you start to think, like, well,

718
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: why can't I trust this person. They've been, you know,

719
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 3: right about all of this, and this person was right

720
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 3: of all of this because you don't know that they're

721
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: all talking behind the scenes.

722
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 5: Like forming the party line why why?

723
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, forming the party line one thing that I took,

724
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: and I do want to know why you think they

725
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: were doing that. But was like, so Harry's going to

726
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 2: go up and do his own thing, is the rumor,

727
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: And you guys are like, yeah, right, No, he's not

728
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: never ever, ever, And then what I could follow from

729
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: your article, it's like, oh, look at what he's doing.

730
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: It's like a porn seventies thing. It's so stupid.

731
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 4: We hate it.

732
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: And then suddenly yeah, it was like, oh he is leaving.

733
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: Oh this porn seventies thing is his actual real thing.

734
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: Now it's cool. Now we have to like it. Otherwise

735
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: we're not supporting like LGBT stuff. And so all of

736
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: a sudden, just your normal opinion was flipped on you

737
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: to be like anti Yes, okay, that's a.

738
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: Lot, because there were like the majority of the fandom

739
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: that I followed, because, as I said, like everyone has

740
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: their inte Like I wasn't hanging out with the Zane believers,

741
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: for example, right right, I wasn't hanging out with the

742
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: people that were like obsessed with Lily and his girlfriend

743
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: and like just do that. I'm like, I don't care

744
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 3: what you guys are doing. And Harry had his own

745
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 3: like two sides of fans. The fans that were like,

746
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: he's an asshole and we love it, and then the

747
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: ones that were like, hey, you would never so you

748
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 3: immediately have like an enemy. Oh god, no, you're wrong.

749
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 3: And my side was always like, no, we would never.

750
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: We would never accept it if that happened, if you

751
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 3: went about it this way, we would never. And then

752
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 3: they were like, actually we do, and we have to

753
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 3: buy five hundred albums and we have to support them

754
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: no matter what.

755
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: So that, again is so culty because that's the exact

756
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: same thing that cult eaters do.

757
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 3: Know.

758
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: They're like, the fucking world's gonna end on June twenty third,

759
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: and then June twenty third happens, and they're like, of

760
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: course it wasn't gonna end.

761
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: What do you try to shift the goalposts?

762
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And you're supposed to just accept it and

763
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: not be like, but didn't want you to just say

764
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: all this the exact opposite Or isn't this the exact

765
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: opposite about what you were saying that whole time?

766
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean in the grand scheme of things, it's tiny,

767
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: tiny stuff. But the refusal to even look at it

768
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: head on was like, this is insane to me, whereas like, oh,

769
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: he joked about Kendall in a sexist way and the

770
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: Late Show and it's like, well, either he's just a

771
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: twenty something year old guy who's just like this is funny,

772
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 3: or no, he would never do that. This was written

773
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: for him because he would never He's a feminist icon.

774
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 3: And then you have the other people who are like, aha,

775
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: that was such a funny joke. Wow, oh my favorite

776
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 3: actually is this is going to sound insane, but I

777
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: have all the links to prove it. But there was

778
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: a point at a concert where he's told the crowd

779
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: to shut up and be pretty, and the people that

780
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: were like, he's a feminist hero were like, hm, we

781
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: got to find a connectment here. They found something. They

782
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: found out that there is a French documentary from the seventies.

783
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is a feminist documentary. And he

784
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: was obviously referencing that because this was in Paris and

785
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 3: it's a French documentary movie. And this went so far

786
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 3: as to being in a review of the show, like

787
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: the journalist was like, he was referencing this documentary and

788
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 3: it's like he never even said anything about that. You

789
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 3: guys just had to like convince yourselves, wow that there

790
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: is like wow, And if you asked one of the fans,

791
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 3: they would be like, I can't believe you would believe

792
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: that about him, and I'm like, it's not about but

793
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: he said that and they're like no, but you can't

794
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: believe that he would ever mean.

795
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: It, right, So basically, whatever, like click your in whatever

796
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: they believe, even if it's complete opposite, you'll still find

797
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: a way to like just defy it to yourself if

798
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: it's incongruous with the like party line of your particular faction.

799
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm just more familiar to what was happening

800
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 3: on this side of things. But this was present, you know,

801
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: throughout all of them, like the Yeah, the whole thing

802
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 3: with like the LGBT artist is that he has a

803
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: very large group of fans that believe he's closeted. And

804
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 3: when I say they believe it, I mean like.

805
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 5: Hard yeah believe it.

806
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

807
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: But that's what is so heartbreaking about this article that

808
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: you shared. You wanted a community, and you had one,

809
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it's turned against you

810
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: so unfairly, and it just it's awful.

811
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: Let's let's have her actually explain, please, what you're referring to.

812
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: So you're in this group loving it, it feels like

813
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: they've got all the good information. How long were you

814
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: like actually really a part of that community for well.

815
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: I stayed beyond my exile so totally it was like

816
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: two years, but it was over a year at the

817
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: point when his commercial dropped, and that was like, oh, okay,

818
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 3: we were wrong, but a lot of us were basically like, yeah,

819
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 3: but we love this community and we love the band,

820
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 3: and there's no reason why we can't just adjust.

821
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: Let's explain what you're talking about. So, okay, he's not leaving.

822
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: He's not leaving, he's not leaving. There's an article that's

823
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: like he's got a contract as a solo artist, but

824
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: you're still like, he's not leaving.

825
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 5: He's not leaving.

826
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: He's not leaving, which I might add part of the

827
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: reason why people were like, don't believe it is because

828
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 3: it was dropped in the middle of the night during

829
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 3: the UK referendum, sort of like this was buried. It

830
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 3: was buried for a reason.

831
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but then a commercial drops. Tell us what

832
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: the commercial is.

833
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Everyone was like immediately, oh, this is like Adele,

834
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: which makes sense because Rob Stringer was like, he's the

835
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 3: new Adele, Adele, Adele, the new adel So you're like, okay,

836
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: of course you're going to do the same tactic. So

837
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, he's wet and he opens like

838
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,479
Speaker 3: this thing that goes on to stage and the light

839
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,479
Speaker 3: comes in. So it's got this like rebirth imagery, which

840
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: you know, Oh, I.

841
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 5: See Harry Styles. We're talking about Harry Styles.

842
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Harry Styles and his rebirth imagery of like I'm

843
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 3: a new man and.

844
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 4: Also myself an individual.

845
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: Yes, and even so far as too. So his debut

846
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: single was Sign of the Times, and the press releases

847
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: were like amazing releasing Sign of the Times at the

848
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 3: same time that like around the anniversary of princes Sign

849
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: of the Times, so you could get like a double

850
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: double pack in there. And it is also Prince's first

851
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: single post his band Ah Got You. It's like everything

852
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: is just like pointing in one direction, no pun intended,

853
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: and yet a lot of the bands were still like, now,

854
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 3: why can't he just release music and still love the band?

855
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: And it's like because all the other signs are pointing

856
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 3: to something else. And I could have learned a lot

857
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 3: during my time if I had read things that were

858
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 3: considered you know, you know, from sources that we didn't trust,

859
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 3: you know, because I found out so much information afterwards

860
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: where I was like, how could we believe this? How

861
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 3: could we believe that? This particular manager was going to

862
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 3: save the band, when if you actually look at his history,

863
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 3: he splits up all the.

864
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 4: Bands that he gets because it's like echo chamber shag exactly.

865
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're in this sort of information silo, which again,

866
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: like it's all on the Internet, which is so fascinating,

867
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: and I just always think it's interesting how you can

868
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: be on the Internet and have access to literally everything,

869
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: all of the information, good and bad, but we don't,

870
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: like we get stuck in our bubble. Yeah, whether that's

871
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: a political one or a fandom one or whatever, and

872
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: it can be really hard to take in information outside

873
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: of what we believe is the correct source. Even though

874
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: no one is literally controlling the information, they are still

875
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: controlling the information for the members of the community.

876
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It's hard because you can't just like think

877
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: through every single thought that you have or every single

878
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 3: link you follow. But I sort of tried to like

879
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 3: be aware of who I'm trusting. But you'll see it

880
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 3: like on Reddit, for example, where people are like, oh, no,

881
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 3: you can't just trust anyone, and then some random person

882
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: shows up in the comments is like actually I knew

883
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: this person blah blah blah, and they're like, oh my god, thanks,

884
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: it all makes so much sense. It's like, okay, so

885
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 3: don't trust anyone, but you're gonna trust this random.

886
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 4: Person, right.

887
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 3: So it's everywhere. People do it all the time because

888
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 3: it's just like I think you just believe in yourself

889
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: that you can just figure out if something is true enough,

890
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: and that's that feeling of knowledge as well that you've

891
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: always so essential For me, I'm like, oh my god,

892
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: I felt that. I felt that knowledge that was you know,

893
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: completely made up.

894
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: Like you're putting together a puzzle. Yeah, so just dopamine head.

895
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

896
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: The commercial then makes the party line change, right or

897
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: this promo, yes, exactly.

898
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: Someone that I knew was also a big blog. People

899
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 3: came to her and were like, I'm not sure if

900
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 3: I want to buy the album. I'm so confused. I

901
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: feel like I need some time to sort of like decompress.

902
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 3: And she's just like, that's fine, you know, take your time.

903
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: You're a fan, you do what you want this. There

904
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: is no like obligation. You didn't sign a contract. And

905
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: even though she was like a big blog, she was

906
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 3: circled on and it was like, why are you trying

907
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: to run a boycott?

908
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: Yeah?

909
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: So they were like, you're a cunt. If you don't

910
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 3: buy the album, you're a cunt. And then people started

911
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: to be like why would you say that. That's a

912
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 3: really bad word to be like just randomly calling people

913
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: and like, oh, you must be American. It's like you

914
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 3: are American? Why isn't American? Like co opting a Australian

915
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: British insult and then pretending like it doesn't actually like

916
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: it was just like a complete breakdown and showed that like,

917
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: oh my god, we're all fighting all of a sudden,

918
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 3: what is happening? And there was no way to like

919
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: correct anyone because they were just like so convinced that

920
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 3: they were being righteous and saying like no, no one

921
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: is allowed to boycott. So it kept happening like that,

922
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: Like I was like number three, I think of the

923
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: people that got knocked down. So she was like first,

924
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: and then some other people said something else that was

925
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: quote unquote un offensive and were kicked out, so that

926
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: that would basically create the new line, Right, you can't

927
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: say that because that happened to that person. And what

928
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 3: I did that was wrong was yeah, complain about particular

929
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: lyrics that I was like, this reminds me of you know,

930
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 3: there was a lot of the seventies vibes, whereas like

931
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 3: bell bottom pants, like actual replicas of Jimmy Page pants,

932
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: and like a lot of other references, and I was like,

933
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 3: Jimmy Page isn't really a great guy to like emulate.

934
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about that, Like why

935
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 3: are they trying to deal with this? And they're like,

936
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: why would you? Why would you feel that way? If

937
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: you see anything problematic in this, then you're the problem.

938
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: You must be a sick fuck blah blah blah blah blah.

939
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: Right turns into a whole essay about very bad people

940
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 3: are the only people that would ever say anything like this.

941
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, like, okay, people know this is

942
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 3: a drama queen, It's okay. Don't like being talked about

943
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: this way, but I can handle it, you know, if

944
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 3: I'm just over here in my corner. Except I quickly

945
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 3: realized that like I had no access all of a

946
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 3: sudden to any of the fan accounts like gift Makers.

947
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: All of that suddenly was like I couldn't access it

948
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: because they had decided that I was not welcome anymore.

949
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm just a nobody guys what

950
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: is happening?

951
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: But can I just say the fact that you were,

952
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: like you stuck around because something kind of similar happened

953
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: to me where I got, you know whatever, and I

954
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: just never went back. But I love the fact that

955
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 2: you were like, no, what's going on? Like that's that's

956
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 2: some heart right there.

957
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 3: Well. The thing is too that I didn't really realize

958
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: what was happening for the longest time. I called that

959
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 3: my cancelation. I was like, oh, I was, you know,

960
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: kind of canceled in fandom, and I mean it kind

961
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: of fits like with general shunning, but it was definitely

962
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: more of a communal thing. I feel like that was

963
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: like you crossed the party line, like we can't you anymore.

964
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: Because then the accusations started escalating in ways because I

965
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 3: think they were like, well, we really need to make

966
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 3: sure that these people are the bad people, get rid

967
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: of them. So they started saying and I just want

968
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 3: to emphasize that I did not ever say this, but

969
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 3: this is what they started saying that we did say.

970
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 3: They said that we called Harriet pedophile and also that

971
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: his stepdad dying was karma, and it's like, no, I

972
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 3: can't believe anyone would even make up these things that

973
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: we like why and you can't counter that because I

974
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: still have people that come with to me and go

975
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 3: like are you denying this? And I'm like, yeah, I'm

976
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: denying it because I never said that. You can go

977
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 3: ahead and look and they're like no, I know, right, truth, right,

978
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 3: I know what you really think. And it's like, okay,

979
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 3: so there's nothing for me to even do here except

980
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: just receive the punches.

981
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: Basically, were you getting harassed like regularly, yeah.

982
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 4: Like sue it.

983
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 2: Like people are being like kill yourself, yeah, yeah, writing

984
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: you like messages to literally encouraging you to kill yourself.

985
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, you're sad. Why don't you just end

986
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: your sad, useless life. Yeah. A lot of stuff like that,

987
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 3: And just like general insults, I understand that. I mean,

988
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: it's such a small thing when you look at like

989
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 3: actual general how cultic abuse works, that it's like I

990
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 3: have a hard time thinking about it as like, I mean,

991
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: it was horrible in the moment, but I sort of

992
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 3: look at it now and I recognize what it is

993
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 3: and I can sort of like put it behind me.

994
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, and I still sometimes do because I have

995
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: a stack counter and I'll see the same person like

996
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 3: refreshing like ninety times in one day, and I'm like,

997
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: I can see that it's you, Like why are you here?

998
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 3: This is really creepy. Stop it. And then you'll have

999
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: blogs that they obviously all do that. They'll create blogs

1000
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: to specifically target you, and then once you block it,

1001
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 3: they make a new one, and then and so on

1002
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 3: and so forth. But it wasn't just me. The thing

1003
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: too like that hit every single person that was seen

1004
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: as a nasayer in some way.

1005
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about the one percent toxic fans theory?

1006
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is a theory that comes directly

1007
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: from fandom. It is basically the idea that it doesn't

1008
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 3: matter what fandom you're in, there's always going to be

1009
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 3: horrible people in it. There's always going to be predators,

1010
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: there's always going to be like sociopaths. Like it's the

1011
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: reality in the real world as well. And depending on

1012
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: how big the fandom is and if the people that

1013
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 3: are toxic are in charge, it will fundamentally change the vibe.

1014
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 3: If it's people that are toxic that have no standing,

1015
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 3: it's pretty easy to avoid them. But if it's someone

1016
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: that has gotten a lot of influence and is pretty

1017
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: high up in the hierarchy. It colors everything.

1018
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 5: Then you basically have little internet cult leader.

1019
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Basically, Twilight as it was going on had two

1020
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: opposing sides. Were the Kristen and Rob shippers, the Rob Steens,

1021
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: and then there were the people that believed that Kristin

1022
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 3: was actually gay and was not actually dating Rob. And

1023
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: these two sides were obviously at war at one point.

1024
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 3: We all know, like they broke up or quote unquote

1025
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 3: broke up, whatever you want to say, whether it was

1026
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 3: real or wasn't. Who knows. She is now out. So

1027
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 3: there was a shift in the fandom. Suddenly. Suddenly the

1028
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: people that believed Rob and Kristin were actually together were

1029
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: the outsiders and the ones that were unpopular, and the

1030
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 3: other ones were the right ones. And what happened is

1031
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 3: these people went from being the dominant force to a

1032
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 3: lot of people left. They were like, Okay, it's over,

1033
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 3: we know it's not true. But the people that really

1034
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: felt strongly about it stayed and became even more insulated.

1035
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 3: And I haven't checked in on them now, but I

1036
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: know that as recently as like five years ago, they

1037
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 3: were still around and they believed that actually Kristin and

1038
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 3: Robb got married in secret and have like three kids. Woh,

1039
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 3: Like there's been pregnancies hidden, Like they have like timelines

1040
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: that supposedly say like Kristen was away from the public eye,

1041
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 3: which means she was probably pregnant at that time. And

1042
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 3: they've constructed an entire alternate reality.

1043
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 5: It's qute on light. It sounds like exactly the same thing.

1044
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this happens in all I mean, in one

1045
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 3: direction fandom, there's like multiple couples that people believe in,

1046
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 3: and the big one is Larry. Because it's been all

1047
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: over the mainstream, there's a lot of committed believers. Still

1048
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: there's still committed believers in wow, Zane and Liam being

1049
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 3: together as well and so on. There's the Yeah, I

1050
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: think once, I mean, it's that thing where I think

1051
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: they just can't let go because they put in so

1052
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: much energy so much, Like it's that time.

1053
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 5: What's it called the sunk cost fallacy, that's.

1054
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 3: It, Yeah, the sunk cost fallacy. And I think as well,

1055
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: probably just emotional attachment that they're just like, right, no,

1056
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 3: but we're going to get our time, We're going to

1057
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: get our moment.

1058
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: It has to also if you have a strong enough

1059
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 2: narrative in your head, you can always find stuff. Even

1060
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 2: what's that documentary about the Cecil Hotel where the girl

1061
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: got yes and then it's like her name spells out

1062
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: the disease and it's like the I just feel like

1063
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: the universe gives everything so much coincidence and shit that

1064
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: you can really go crazy looking at anything.

1065
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 3: Yes. No, I was gonna say, I love that you

1066
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 3: said that, because that was definitely one of the documentary

1067
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: series that I watched and I was like, well, this

1068
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: is familiar. There's a documentary I think it's called Help

1069
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: Us Find Sunil Tripati or Where is Suneil Tripati? And

1070
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 3: this was a young student that Reddit was convinced was

1071
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: the Boston bomber. Wow, but this was actually just a

1072
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: kid who had already committed suicide by the time that

1073
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: the bombing had happened. So he had been missing and

1074
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 3: they were like, well, his stacket or his backpack or

1075
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: something like unquote. So they start they created this whole

1076
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 3: thing where like we have to find him because it's him,

1077
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: but it wasn't him, and so the documentary kind of

1078
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: covers how that affected his family that we're still looking

1079
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: for answers, and we're now facing that and I don't

1080
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 3: know how that affected even the police investigation, Like it

1081
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 3: must have had some sort of impact.

1082
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you just generally about all

1083
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: of this stuff, like why do you think people get

1084
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: so invested in it? I think, like, if I were

1085
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: to guess, I would imagine it's the same reason why

1086
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: people get in colts, just because there's any need that

1087
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: they have that's like suddenly seems to be met by

1088
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: this thing.

1089
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 5: And you know, it doesn't it's not crazy.

1090
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem crazy in the beginning, but it kind

1091
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: of gets crazier over time. But I would let like,

1092
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: what's your perception of that.

1093
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: I think it's true, Like I think it's easy to

1094
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: sort of slip into it because it's not as straightforward

1095
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 3: as like, oh, the algorithm is, you know, indoctrinating you,

1096
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 3: because these are all real people, Like it's easy to

1097
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 3: be affected by your community. First of all, it seeds

1098
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 3: to become more worked up because they have the fervor

1099
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 3: aspect down. If you look at like this was one

1100
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: direction back in the day, they would have like you

1101
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 3: would need to be online all times or you might

1102
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 3: miss something. Basically and if you miss something, you're like,

1103
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: even though it could just be like a tweet, what

1104
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 3: does it mean in the grand scheme of things? Nothing really.

1105
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 3: You could miss a week and nothing actually changes. It's

1106
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: like a soap, but you still feel like you have

1107
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 3: to be aware of every single update. So you're constantly

1108
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: in a very like heightened environment, and fans want everything

1109
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 3: to mean something. So even like an article from like Yahoo,

1110
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 3: is this part of the narrative. It's just Yahoo that

1111
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: needs to print something.

1112
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,479
Speaker 1: God if people knew how it actually worked. I mean, sure,

1113
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: some people have great PR teams, but people there's just

1114
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: random writers writing shit, like just pitching articles and just

1115
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: writing shit like it is not that deep most of

1116
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: the time.

1117
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1118
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: But if you have a strong narrative, you will fit

1119
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 2: it together and an intriguing and fascinating.

1120
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 5: Way, because you're right, you will.

1121
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: If you are looking for coincidences, you will find that

1122
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: because coincidences are everywhere.

1123
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 5: They just are.

1124
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: They're inherent and everything, which to me is magical in

1125
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: and of itself.

1126
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 4: It is main coincidences are magical. Yeah, so it's just

1127
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 4: it's fucking weird, dude.

1128
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say the fervor is definitely part

1129
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 3: of it. But I think another aspect is because these

1130
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 3: brands do very much tap into we mean something bigger

1131
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: than what we are, Like Lady Gaga has hers is

1132
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: also very much like LGBT inclusive and like fighting for

1133
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 3: all of that. So that also has a very large

1134
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 3: group of people that are like, we're fighting for this,

1135
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 3: We're fighting for acceptance, we're fighting for visibility.

1136
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 5: It is like looking for something larger than yourself.

1137
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the BTS fans, I believe they also think that

1138
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: they're just like saving the world. It's like, you know,

1139
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 3: the more the BTS message spreads, the better.

1140
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 5: What is the BTS message ets is.

1141
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 3: In like k Poppy T. Yes, I think their message

1142
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: is like positivity. That's why they're celebrating that they went

1143
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 3: to the UN and like the White House or like

1144
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: they're spreading their message.

1145
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 2: That's the weird part. The message is so individual to everyone.

1146
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: It's almost like the message doesn't matter, and it's just

1147
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: believing in the person at the top. And then whoever

1148
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: is like sort of giving you the information. Who seems

1149
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: like they're close to the top, right, someone has secret information,

1150
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 1: then they seem like an insider.

1151
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 5: They seem like close to God.

1152
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: Almost has anyone apologized to you? Oh no, no, unbelievable.

1153
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 3: I think they still think they're in the right. I

1154
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 3: think because God, who did I hear I heard someone

1155
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 3: say something similar where they're like they knew that people

1156
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 3: who left the room after them still thought of them

1157
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 3: as like poisoned.

1158
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

1159
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: And I'm pretty sure it's the same thing here. They

1160
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 3: managed to get a lot of blogs to delete, and

1161
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 3: you'll still see them bragging about it. They'll be like,

1162
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 3: oh remember that one, ha ha, and it's just like, yeah,

1163
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: good job, Yeah, you bullied someone enough that they were like, fs,

1164
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 3: I'm deleting you know, that's heartbreaking, but they take it

1165
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 3: as like a celebration.

1166
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: I have a friend right now who's she's getting harassed

1167
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 1: by Billie Eilish fans every day.

1168
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course, do you mind sharing her crime.

1169
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 5: She's dating Billy Eilish's ex boyfriends.

1170
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1171
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: So her dms are just constant, like hundreds of messages

1172
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: every hour, like just constant, constant critiques of her body,

1173
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: telling her she's disgusting, death threats like telling her to

1174
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: kill hers like and of course the guy himself like

1175
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: he's had a really bad time with the fans. In

1176
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: a situation like that, do you think there's someone that's

1177
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: sort of they're looking up to who's forming their party

1178
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: line that like these people are bad? Or is it

1179
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: just sort of this direction of the top the stream,

1180
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: like that's just where it goes. Is like we love Billy,

1181
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: therefore she is and we must all harass her.

1182
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 5: Like how does that happen?

1183
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it depends in part on what they

1184
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: believe their motivation is and how they've come to that.

1185
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 3: But that is interesting in that it highlights just how

1186
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 3: far this spreads. Because I wrote something on just like

1187
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: celebrity Twitter, and I know a lot of people are like, well,

1188
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 3: who cares about celebrities on Twitter? And I'm like, it's

1189
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 3: not about them, It's about how this anger is spreading

1190
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: towards like oh, boyfriend, boyfriend's new girlfriend, or sister sister's

1191
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 3: boyfriend's sister's friend. Like suddenly all of these people that

1192
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: are not in the spotlight right are seen as fair game.

1193
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 3: So I think that's part of it. If you're out

1194
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 3: there at all visible, you're fair game because you chose

1195
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: to be online, right.

1196
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 4: You chose to exist on the planet.

1197
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll apply the same logic as like, well, Billie

1198
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: Eilish is a performer who has a public brand, Therefore

1199
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 3: everyone else who is publicly online also has a public

1200
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: brand and should be able to withstand criticism.

1201
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 5: I mean, even if it were someone who had a

1202
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 5: public brand.

1203
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 3: Oh, it's unacceptable.

1204
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 5: Abuse, masses of abuse.

1205
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1206
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just more aware of it now than I

1207
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: ever was, because of like the Amber Her trial for example.

1208
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, yeah, it just seems like it's getting

1209
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: so much worse, and people are just like on the

1210
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: hunt to harass and abuse people online and it's bullied.

1211
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 3: It is bullying. I wonder how much of it is.

1212
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of theories, but I

1213
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: don't know for sure. But part of it, I wonder,

1214
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 3: is is it because these fan groups have been told

1215
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 3: that they have power, They've been told that they actually

1216
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 3: decide exactly like the st the you know, Star Trek,

1217
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 3: Star Wars fans that get so angry like they've thought

1218
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: this entire time that they were actually steering things, even

1219
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 3: though that was never the case, and now they're like

1220
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: lashing out because it's like, wait, we don't have a say,

1221
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 3: how is this possible? And I feel like it's that

1222
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 3: anger that comes from that doctrination, Like it's that calthic

1223
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 3: defense mechanism that is like attack, attack, attack. I can

1224
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 3: remember feeling it, so yeah, I feel like that's also

1225
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 3: a lot of people will say like, oh, people online

1226
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 3: have all like everyone is a sociopath, and I'm like,

1227
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's that or just that people

1228
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 3: have all managed to become so attached to their beliefs.

1229
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 3: And because we're seeing everything, it's like the Buffy episode

1230
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 3: where she can hear everyone's voices, like you can actually

1231
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 3: just see everything. So you'll get the worst responses and

1232
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 3: you'll be like, why is this here? We are running

1233
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: the world? Why And then they get super angry and

1234
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 3: they start lashing out in vary inappropriate ways.

1235
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: It seems to me like this is what the group

1236
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: is doing. My identity is within this group. Therefore I

1237
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: must do this to preserve my identity. Yeah, or I

1238
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: will get kicked out of the group, lose my community,

1239
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: lose my identity. Yeah, this is what I'm supposed to think,

1240
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: supposed to feel, supposed to say.

1241
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 5: Supposed to do.

1242
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: We all are so precious about our identities and how

1243
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: we see ourselves and what we see ourselves as belonging

1244
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: to that Like, if someone comes along, it's so much

1245
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: easier for our cognitive dissonance to just go along with

1246
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: the thing that the group says than it is to

1247
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: be like, maybe this doesn't feel right to me, but

1248
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm the only one who feels this way, and no

1249
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: one else is saying anything, So I'm going to be

1250
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: brave and do something different than what they're you know, like,

1251
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: it's that is such a difficult psychological leap, and obviously

1252
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: we don't have an answer to how to empower ourselves

1253
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: to do that more other than to just like pause

1254
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: and think critically and be like, why am I doing

1255
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: what I'm doing? Why do I think what I think?

1256
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: Where did these beliefs come from? Did they come from

1257
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: my genuine thinking something through and looking at all sides

1258
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: and like doing my own investigation and my own inner investigation,

1259
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: or did they come from everyone else is doing this

1260
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: thing or the person who runs this group is has

1261
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: said that X thing is bad and therefore I have

1262
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: to go along with it and harassment.

1263
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, it's so tricky.

1264
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it's such a weird specific part of

1265
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: the Internet that in my head feels so small, but

1266
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: it's so big, Like there's so much of this going on.

1267
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 3: I feel like it's so big and it's invisible to

1268
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 3: a lot of people. Yeah, like it started getting press.

1269
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 3: I feel like the past couple of years with like

1270
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift fans harassing journalists right because she didn't get

1271
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 3: ten out of ten. She got eight out of ten,

1272
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 3: and that's gonna bring down her rating. Oh no, rate

1273
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 3: music or whatever the site is. So it's not even

1274
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 3: that like you need to actually like it. It's like,

1275
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 3: why would you try to destroy her track record?

1276
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 4: You're doing this on purpose? To like destroy her becomes

1277
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 4: the narrative. Yeah wow, and then we have to be

1278
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 4: the ones to protect her. Yes, totally.

1279
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 5: God, it makes me sad.

1280
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 3: It's so upsetting. But then you also look at like,

1281
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 3: I mean, part of for me, I'm like, why is

1282
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,479
Speaker 3: no one actually talking about this in a way that

1283
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 3: we acknowledge that these are the same people that run

1284
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,439
Speaker 3: update accounts and are doing the free marketing. Because there's

1285
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 3: like Billboard has multiple articles that are like, wow, fans

1286
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: are basically marketing arms of the labels they're online twenty

1287
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 3: four to seven and doing all the updates and doing

1288
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: all of that, and it's like you need to realize

1289
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 3: that the fact that they are this devoted has a

1290
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: dark side. You can't just be have that type of

1291
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: devotion like you know, timeless completely, just focus and not

1292
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 3: somehow react poorly when someone goes against it.

1293
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 2: I feel like, does your psyche like merge with theirs

1294
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: in a sort of way where their wins are literally yours?

1295
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 3: Yes. I believe it's very much like the sports teams, right,

1296
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 3: and that is something I also want to look at

1297
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 3: because I feel like sports teams are especially if you

1298
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 3: look at the UK, the intensity of the football fans

1299
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 3: and the hooligans is I think the worst case scenario

1300
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 3: with music stands essentially because what is going on in

1301
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 3: the UK like a lot of violence. They know that

1302
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 3: when a team loses, the domestic abuse numbers go up

1303
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 3: because they go home and take out their anger on

1304
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: their partner.

1305
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

1306
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: And then so I know, if they win, then they.

1307
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 4: Got them all frenzied.

1308
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And then if you go to small pubs

1309
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 3: in the UK, you'll see warnings that say like no

1310
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 3: no color is allowed, which means you cannot even hint

1311
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 3: at to who you're supporting, because it will cause a

1312
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 3: hol on. Right, So I'm like, this is the worst

1313
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 3: case scenario for me is that the environment adapts to

1314
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 3: the insane fans.

1315
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 4: You write this as a Black Mirror episode, please, I.

1316
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 3: Mean Black Mirror has already been too prescient. I mean

1317
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 3: it's terrifying, true, it's so scary. I'm like, we're we're

1318
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 3: like this close to the episode where you have your

1319
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 3: rating visible above your head.

1320
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 5: I feel like that episode makes me so upset. I

1321
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 5: can't even think about it.

1322
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 3: It's a good and depressing episode, and I'm like, why

1323
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 3: are we willingly Yeah, I know, marching into this, I know,

1324
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 3: but yeah, so I feel like the sports fans I

1325
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: really have to look into. And then there's also the

1326
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 3: gamer fans. Oh yeah, they have exceeded stand abuse in

1327
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 3: that there is something called swatting. Are you guests familiar with.

1328
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 5: This kind of but yeah, to explain that, please, I'm not.

1329
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 3: Sure if it's like a threat, but they'll basically report

1330
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 3: someone to police and swat and be like you have

1331
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 3: to go there. There's you know, there's illegal activity going on,

1332
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 3: and so they're gonna.

1333
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 4: Get someone kilse.

1334
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 3: It has happened. Yeah, it has happened. There have been does.

1335
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1336
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 3: One of the more recent ones wasn't even video games.

1337
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: It was Twitter. It was teenagers on Twitter that wanted

1338
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 3: the handle at Tennessee I think. I mean it was

1339
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 3: like a very simple state handle and they wanted the

1340
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 3: handle and the guy was like, no, this is my

1341
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 3: my user name. So they swatted him and he had

1342
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 3: a heart attack when the police came, essentially, and that's

1343
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 3: over a Twitter name, like a Twitter username that isn't

1344
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 3: even based on like I have a mission for world peace,

1345
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 3: it's I want that Twitter handle. Wow. So there are

1346
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 3: some even more extremes that I'm like looking at with fear.

1347
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 3: I feel like that's partially why doxing is so dangerous too,

1348
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 3: because then you have like all of that information available

1349
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 3: for escalated violence. Basically totally.

1350
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough you guys, google your own phone

1351
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: number and google your name and the words phone number

1352
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: and take that shit down. It is so yeah, everyone's

1353
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: information is just fucking out there if you don't take

1354
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: it down, and it is terrifying.

1355
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 3: And this was over a Twitter handle, So like you

1356
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 3: could just be saying, like I don't like tomatoes and

1357
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 3: who knows.

1358
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 5: That is the thing that scares me.

1359
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: Harry styles that it can be over anything, like none

1360
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: of these are real, sinse even cancelations, I feel like

1361
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: most the time are.

1362
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 4: Overblown, Exactly.

1363
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: It's so much more about the people's perception and what

1364
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: they want to believe about you, because what it will,

1365
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: how it will serve them to believe that about you,

1366
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: than it is about what you are actually doing, almost

1367
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: like most of the time.

1368
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 5: But that is why it's so terrifying.

1369
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: Like if it is decided in a group that it

1370
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: would be beneficial to the group to come after you.

1371
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what happened to me. I like left the

1372
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 2: podcast that I used to host, and this whole army

1373
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 2: of people started bullying me, and like some of them

1374
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 2: were on a very famous reality show. So I was

1375
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: just getting death threats out the ass for doing nothing.

1376
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 4: But then a year later.

1377
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: Things blew the other way and then everybody had to apologize.

1378
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 2: So I was kind of hoping you got that same experience,

1379
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 2: but it sounds like you have not, which sucks no.

1380
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 3: But it's okay I have the only thing that made

1381
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 3: it kind of tolerable is that there were quite a

1382
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 3: few of us that kept getting kicked out, so we

1383
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 3: sort of banded together and just like had our little

1384
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 3: therapy sessions on discord cool. So that was good, and

1385
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 3: I still talk to a bunch of a bunch of them.

1386
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 1: Finding a community who of people who have also been

1387
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: exiled from a community that you were like that is

1388
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: so important because unfortunately, communities are the things that can

1389
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: go wrong so much at the time, but we also

1390
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: need them to rebuild, like our lives back or identities back.

1391
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just so upset that those people are

1392
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,560
Speaker 2: so mean, and I'm so glad that you are a

1393
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: guest on this because you are so smart, you are

1394
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: so charismatic and fun, and you got roped in later

1395
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 2: in life.

1396
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 4: So it shows them.

1397
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 2: It does happen to people who you aren't expecting it

1398
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 2: to happen to. But it just seems like it's a

1399
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: people with so much energy, who could do so much

1400
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 2: good in the world, and then they get manipulated by

1401
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,879
Speaker 2: these people to just spend it chasing their tails.

1402
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 4: It makes me sad.

1403
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if this specifically fits into

1404
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 3: the weaponized empathy sphere, but when I learned about that,

1405
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 3: I was like Wow. That's why world is what it's like,

1406
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 3: because there are so many actual empaths out there that

1407
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 3: have that believe in their cause because they believe it's right,

1408
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 3: and so they have, you know, morals on their side,

1409
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 3: you know, presumably because they believe it's so right. It's

1410
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 3: not just someone who like, is just angry. It's people

1411
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 3: who actually fully.

1412
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: They feel all of those feelings yeah, fully activated.

1413
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and that how do you how do you

1414
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 3: deal with someone like that?

1415
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're fighting the like climax of their own story.

1416
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: This is like their hero's journey, the real thing, and

1417
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 2: you're just like trying to check your Instagram fight.

1418
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: As superpower, it would be that I would harness everyone's

1419
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: weird fucking obsessions and things that they're fighting for that

1420
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: are completely meaningless and direct them toward climate change.

1421
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 5: That's what I would do with my superpower.

1422
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: That's beautiful because honestly, if we if that energy was

1423
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: put towards something actually useful and productive in the world

1424
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 1: that would actually help people like we would not be

1425
01:09:58,640 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: as fucked as we are right now.

1426
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, that's probably part of why they

1427
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: get us so hooked on stupid shit, right, So.

1428
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: That we look the other way, and corporations can get

1429
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: away with whatever they want and billionaires get richer and

1430
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,919
Speaker 1: everyone else is gonna die of heaps.

1431
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah cool, Yeah, it seems like it optimism.

1432
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 5: Wow. Well, do you have any final thoughts on this topic?

1433
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 3: Oh? I just hope it made sense, because I still

1434
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 3: find it hard to sort of summarize. And I know,

1435
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 3: fandom itself is kind of like not necessarily something people

1436
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,560
Speaker 3: who are outside of it even really know about it.

1437
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 5: That's why it's good to be talking about it.

1438
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, So I just I just always hope

1439
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 3: that it makes sense.

1440
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 4: I think I have a theory that every family has

1441
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 4: one fan.

1442
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 3: Oh.

1443
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 4: I just hated that. So that's why I say I

1444
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 4: think I have a theory.

1445
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 5: I don't think anyone in my family is a stand.

1446
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 4: Okay, great, it's debunked already.

1447
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 5: But I did make a Frankie Munya's fan site when

1448
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 5: I was twelve.

1449
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 4: So yeah, exactly, you're the fan.

1450
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: You're eleven, maybe I was eleven. How long did you

1451
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: run that, by the way, Oh no, like not long

1452
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: I lived. I think I just made it and like

1453
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: that was it pretty much. I just I like the

1454
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: process of creation and at that time, I wasn't able

1455
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: to be a filmmaker or make my own music, so

1456
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: I put it into angel Fire websites.

1457
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 3: It was a fun hobby website making.

1458
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know cool. Is there anywhere people can find

1459
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:21,560
Speaker 1: you online?

1460
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,799
Speaker 3: My substack is exiled fan and that's where I'm writing

1461
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:31,480
Speaker 3: my little treatises on fandom stuff. And I'm on Twitter Momovolution.

1462
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 3: It's more casual on their ranting about random things and fandom.

1463
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 1: Nice, wonderful, Well, thanks so much for talking to us today.

1464
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

1465
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 4: Thank you. That was great. Whoa, that was good mecan.

1466
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, time for your question.

1467
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: Okay, could you see yourself ever becoming a stand and

1468
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: if so, of what or who oh boy?

1469
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so this far in my life I have managed

1470
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 2: to not become a s I think that's because when

1471
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 2: I was younger, I wasn't allowed to really, you know,

1472
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 2: go to concerts or watch things or I was just

1473
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 2: kind of deprived of the culture to even make.

1474
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 4: Me a stand.

1475
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 2: But my dad did have a giant collection of Dilbert books.

1476
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 2: The comic For those of you who do not know,

1477
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 2: it's like a comic book that's basically about how much

1478
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 2: it sucks to work in an office, And when I

1479
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 2: was in like seventh and eighth grade, I thought it

1480
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 2: was hilarious. And when I moved to Los Angeles, I

1481
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 2: was in a spin class and I after the class

1482
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 2: was like, Oh my god, are you Scott Adams, the

1483
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 2: guy who writes Dilbert. And he was like, you're the

1484
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 2: youngest person who's ever recognized. I was just like, oh

1485
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: my gosh, like buzzing from the excitement of it.

1486
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 5: How did you know what he looked like?

1487
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 2: Because I would stare at like the back of books

1488
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 2: and I don't I mean, I just I knew it

1489
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 2: was him.

1490
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 4: So that was exciting. But I haven't really had.

1491
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 2: The opportunity to totally stand out, which I think. I

1492
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 2: think that trait might develop and people a little bit

1493
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 2: younger and then just grow as they develop.

1494
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 4: Maybe I don't know.

1495
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, I was a

1496
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 1: huge Spice Girls and Hanson fan geez walls plastered with

1497
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: their posters, and I could see how that could have

1498
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: developed from there if I had had access to the internet.

1499
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 4: Younger, right, you know.

1500
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: Although I did make that Frankie Munya's site and it

1501
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: did not develop further from there, I just got bored

1502
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: and I was like this, maybe let's I have other

1503
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 1: things to do.

1504
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 4: I that's so unbelievable.

1505
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 5: I just liked. I just liked making things. You know,

1506
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 5: I'm an organizer.

1507
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to do something and then I

1508
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: just like figure out how to do it in like

1509
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: organiz and then once it's done, it only keeps my

1510
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: interest if it's something I'm like really into. So clearly

1511
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: I was not that into Franks.

1512
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I do think though, with with

1513
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 2: more a little more starting run, how do you say that?

1514
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: Like when you're gonna jump, but you get to run first.

1515
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 2: I don't think I got a long enough run to

1516
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 2: be able to jump to stan heights.

1517
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: Well, now I'm trying to remember what that reasons running

1518
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 1: start starting right?

1519
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 4: Didn't get a running start? I didn't.

1520
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: That just means when you're in a race. That's not

1521
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: it either that means when you're in a race and

1522
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: you go first, or when someone's chasing you and you

1523
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: go first. I don't know phrases, you guys, who has

1524
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: the mental capacity to remember phrases?

1525
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 2: Not no clue, no clue, But yeah, I think it's

1526
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 2: I think it's in me. It just didn't get developed.

1527
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: So I haven't been a Stan uh yet? But are

1528
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,919
Speaker 2: you if you were? Oh, if I was Scott Adams

1529
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 2: obviously no, just kidding, I guess oprah, No, that's not true.

1530
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 4: No, I don't know. I don't know. Everybody sucks yeah

1531
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 4: to true. What about you? Who would you? Do you

1532
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 4: have a Stan?

1533
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 5: Uh? Do I have a Stan?

1534
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 4: Are you a Stan?

1535
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 5: Okay? If I were a Stan, I think I would Stan.

1536
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: Kilmore girls Okay, because I've seen it three times all

1537
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: the way through. Wow, I do know a cast member

1538
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,679
Speaker 1: and it's it's not weird.

1539
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 4: You guys, Yeah, it doesn't sound good friends.

1540
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 5: Uh huh. I'm the reason he's married. Listen, I sang

1541
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 5: it his wedding.

1542
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 4: Okay.

1543
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: I did not discover it as a kid, though, So

1544
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: it's not like that kind of fandom. It's more like,

1545
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: this show is so cozy and comforting and it makes

1546
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 1: me feel so nice that I will rewatch it, probably

1547
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, because it's like the

1548
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 1: ultimate ultimate comfort food for me. Right, But it's not

1549
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: at the level where I'm like, I have zero fan theories.

1550
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 5: I don't follow anyone on the internet.

1551
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 4: Unless I know them.

1552
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 5: You know, right, But I just really do love the show.

1553
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 5: I love the show.

1554
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 4: I love it too.

1555
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 2: I guess I can kind of get wrapped up in

1556
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:10,919
Speaker 2: like Bravo gossip.

1557
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 5: Oh I could see that.

1558
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I haven't done that in a long time.

1559
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 2: But I'm capable.

1560
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 4: That's in me.

1561
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 5: Well, I'm glad we've got that covered.

1562
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1563
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 2: I think we got it covered all right. Thanks for

1564
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 2: joining us, guys for another beautiful week. We hope to

1565
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 2: see you again next time, but for now, remember to

1566
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 2: follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

1567
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 5: And never ever trust me. Bye.