Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, that's messed up? An SVU podcast. I'm Liza Traeger
Speaker 2: and I'm Kara Klank. You know what we do here.
Speaker 1: We talk about an episode of Law and Order SVU
Speaker 1: Special Victims Unit, then we talk about the true crime
Speaker 1: is based on, and then we interview a gorgeous actor
Speaker 1: from the show. And today we are coming to you
Speaker 1: live from a hotel in Cleveland, and we only have
Speaker 1: one microphone, so we are sharing it.
Speaker 3: And I hope that doesn't sound weird.
Speaker 2: We're sharing the mic, we're sharing a little chair, she's
Speaker 2: on a bench. We're driving through the beautiful Midwest. Well
Speaker 2: it's wild because when we were driving in the southeast,
Speaker 2: it was like fall leaves, gorgeous yellows, browns, and then
Speaker 2: now it's barren, barren trees.
Speaker 1: Thirty three degrees, snow flurries, barren trees.
Speaker 3: It's winter here. It is, but I do have fun.
Speaker 1: The spinach chart to choke dip at the clubs never
Speaker 1: disappoints a fave.
Speaker 3: We love it and I'm.
Speaker 1: So happy that I got you addicted to Jimmy John's.
Speaker 1: It helps my life. I just Lisa, Okay, So we
Speaker 1: just got dropped off at this hotel in Cleveland, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, I'm, you know, constantly looking for
Speaker 1: a deal. So I was like, I'm not paying for
Speaker 1: the valet here. It's too expensive. I'm gonna go park
Speaker 1: it at the scrush next door. I go park it upstairs.
Speaker 1: I come down the doors, take me to the opposite
Speaker 1: side of the street that I entered on, and there's
Speaker 1: a Jimmy John's right there. And when I tell you that,
Speaker 1: I gasped. I went and I almost took a picture
Speaker 1: of it. But then I realized that Lisa has already
Speaker 1: done this club a bunch of times.
Speaker 3: It probably knows it's there.
Speaker 1: But I truly acted like I saw, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like my favorite restaurant because it's delicious, but no, the
Speaker 1: gas was worth it.
Speaker 3: But this area of Cleveland is annoying.
Speaker 1: It's like the business districts, like everything closes at three pm.
Speaker 3: It's like you got to wrap it up and go
Speaker 3: get a Jimmy John.
Speaker 2: Well, I had an egg and cheese from Dunkin Donuts
Speaker 2: and it was the best one I've ever had in here.
Speaker 2: Like we were annoyed in the drive through because it
Speaker 2: was taking so long, and then the moment I've been
Speaker 2: into it, I was like, Oh, this is high quality,
Speaker 2: this is high quality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like an aficionado of these things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they should have me on dough Boys. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I haven't been on it.
Speaker 1: I was trying to think of I couldn't think of
Speaker 1: the podcast name, and I was like, you should be
Speaker 1: on that podcast about fast food, but I forgot what
Speaker 1: it's called. Yeah, it's bullshit that they have not had
Speaker 1: me on it.
Speaker 2: But it's also okay because I also know all the
Speaker 2: things you know, like chick flake, great mac and cheese.
Speaker 1: Like I just know the tricks hips and tricks of
Speaker 1: the trade. Not even a trick. It's truly on the menu.
Speaker 1: It is huge on the menu.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: We've been having a great time with everybody coming out
Speaker 1: to the live shows. I guess I'll take this time
Speaker 1: to do my normal tour.
Speaker 3: Bullshit.
Speaker 1: This episode comes out after we've already done Florida, but
Speaker 1: at Sacramento, were coming for you in a couple of nights.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be there on the eighth, and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna be in Dallas and Houston the following week. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then don't forget about Philadelphia. New York is sold
Speaker 1: out unfortunately, but there's the second show at it in Boston.
Speaker 1: There's also Heart for Connecticut in January. Guys go to
Speaker 1: Thats messed uplive dot com to get those ticks because yeah,
Speaker 1: shows sell out and then you miss out and I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm having a great time.
Speaker 3: No, we're having a super super fun time. Wait.
Speaker 2: Wait, I was gonna say something. Was it just about
Speaker 2: fast food? Though I can't imagine?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: No, I talked about some of my stories.
Speaker 2: But I was staying at the TWA Hotel, which is
Speaker 2: in side of JFK, and it's like sixties vibe. But
Speaker 2: this bartender loved Elon Musk like I could never have imagined.
Speaker 3: And I kept trying.
Speaker 1: I kept like making good points of like you can
Speaker 1: like him, but there's flaws.
Speaker 2: And I told him, I go, I like tons of
Speaker 2: bad people. It's totally fine, but he's an idiot, and
Speaker 2: he goes, how do you what do you mean?
Speaker 3: He's so rich?
Speaker 2: I go, is rich the only way you find people
Speaker 2: good or bad?
Speaker 3: Like it makes no sense. I go, he brought a
Speaker 3: sink into the headquarters. He doesn't.
Speaker 2: He's surrounded by yes people. He is not self aware.
Speaker 2: He's a rich kid. And he he was defending that.
Speaker 3: He goes.
Speaker 1: Other people don't use resources. There's other people who don't.
Speaker 1: People don't work hard enough. And I was like, you
Speaker 1: are sucked in. And then he was like, well, if
Speaker 1: you were a billionaire, what would you do? What would
Speaker 1: you do? And I go, I would feed children and
Speaker 1: to make sure Flint had water. Like, what are you
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 3: I just I just have.
Speaker 1: Never met an Elon musk freak before. But he loved Zuckerberg. Well,
Speaker 1: I was telling you this that I saw on Twitter
Speaker 1: when people were defending Elon.
Speaker 3: They were going, you just don't get it.
Speaker 1: No other billionaire ever gets on to Twitter and engages
Speaker 1: and talks to the fan and engages with the memes.
Speaker 1: And I go, oh my god, we're so much more
Speaker 1: worse off than I thought we were. These people think
Speaker 1: the measure of success is a guy who engages with
Speaker 1: the memes. It's too late. Maybe we need him to
Speaker 1: take us to Mars I don't know, no. And then
Speaker 1: he goes, but he's a genius. How can you say
Speaker 1: he's not that smart?
Speaker 2: I go, he didn't make the spaceships, he didn't make
Speaker 2: the Tesla.
Speaker 3: He bought those patents.
Speaker 1: He's hiring scientists, he's firing people off Twitter who disagree
Speaker 1: with him. I'm like, he comes from money, but also
Speaker 1: he's a hypocrite. I go, you don't think it's humiliating
Speaker 1: that he's blocking people that make fun of him, firing
Speaker 1: people who say that make fun of him on the
Speaker 1: internal slack.
Speaker 3: The bartender couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I go, I'm sorry, bro, but all bad people are
Speaker 2: men who want to be funny and aren't or have
Speaker 2: weird dicks.
Speaker 3: I'm like, And then he kind of opened his eyes.
Speaker 3: I go.
Speaker 2: Every dude wants to just be funny with a great dick,
Speaker 2: and when they're not, that's when school shootings happens, that's
Speaker 2: when wars start. That's when Elon Musk fires everyone at
Speaker 2: Twitter and brings au sink.
Speaker 3: I just can't. Oh.
Speaker 2: Same with Trump, where it's like the things that are
Speaker 2: not as important are the ones that stick in my mind,
Speaker 2: Like when he plagiarized bane in his it's a inauguration speech.
Speaker 2: That's when I was like, wait, what's happening And it's
Speaker 2: this minuscule thing that now happened what seven years ago?
Speaker 2: But I'm still just like the bane, the bane of
Speaker 2: it all. It's and same with Elon, Like I'm sure
Speaker 2: you know the union busting he did and made people
Speaker 2: work through COVID and all that. But to me, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, you brought a sink in. You have no
Speaker 2: true friends, you have no real people. You're surrounded by,
Speaker 2: yes people, you have not one person in your life.
Speaker 2: That's like, bro, that's a bad idea.
Speaker 1: But I am kind of liking watching Twitter meltdown a
Speaker 1: little bit, like all these big companies losing millions of
Speaker 1: dollars because people have billions billions. Yeah, no, I do
Speaker 1: love these evil corporations losing stocks for sure, Like people
Speaker 1: that have been ripping off people on insulin for decades.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I love to see you take it.
Speaker 2: And then you have this bartender in a hotel bar
Speaker 2: inside of an airport defending these monsters. I just like,
Speaker 2: I just don't understand it. I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: Like you love Eli Lilly, Like what why you should
Speaker 1: not be celebrating CEOs.
Speaker 3: I just don't.
Speaker 2: But sometimes hustle culture memes pop up, and I guess
Speaker 2: sometimes they're inspirational, but it's like, yeah, I don't want
Speaker 2: to wake up at four am. I'm sorry, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. I don't want to
Speaker 2: like chew On Bark in the office in a different way,
Speaker 2: you hustle. Yeah, but my body is in pain. My
Speaker 2: knees hurt, I'm falling apart. My throat's on fire, like
Speaker 2: I'm pushing it to the limit but not nourishing myself
Speaker 2: in any way.
Speaker 1: The sole's out of her shoes. You guys, she's got
Speaker 1: the foot pain. I don't know what's happening. I just
Speaker 1: can't get rid of these sneakers. I'm mentally, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's an immigrant thing. I don't know what to say,
Speaker 1: but I do feel like maybe I should stretch. I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I don't know how people do it. Yeah, stretching. Well,
Speaker 1: it's an age thing too, I think once you're like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm much older than you, So I don't
Speaker 1: like to hear that. Yeah, but you know, when you
Speaker 1: get older, your body doesn't work. To say, that's not
Speaker 1: I know less. You're Jla j Lo's got it poppin.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going for. I want to be the
Speaker 1: j Loo of podcasting.
Speaker 2: No, I just feel like I'm pushing myself in the
Speaker 2: way as I did in my early twenties.
Speaker 3: But I'm not in that. So that's what I have
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I don't go out as much as
Speaker 1: I used to back them, but I still I still
Speaker 1: got it. I would say, I know, hello listener, you
Speaker 1: might know that it's you. But she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: thirty six. Now I can't go to concerts And I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, what go to concerts? Do it?
Speaker 3: It's so thrilling. I'm trying to think of stuff not
Speaker 3: on the road.
Speaker 2: Well, if anyone's listening, I do want a White Lotus
Speaker 2: PR package to be sent to me, So I'm really
Speaker 2: I'm really jealous. Michelle Collins posted it and I want
Speaker 2: a White Lotus bucket hat If.
Speaker 1: Anybody's got the hook up with the PR firm working
Speaker 1: with HBO and White Lotus, please Lisa needs this.
Speaker 2: Oh and will you if you saw us live, you
Speaker 2: know this? But Kara did meet my family?
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my god, I just took the mic out
Speaker 1: of Lisa's hands so that I can have a monologue.
Speaker 1: I met the family. It was so amazing. I got there.
Speaker 1: Lisa's dad stood in front of me and was like hello,
Speaker 1: and I was like hi, and I shook his hand.
Speaker 1: But then it felt like maybe I should go for hug,
Speaker 1: so I just kind of wrapped my arms around him,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he really went back for it,
Speaker 1: but it was still fun. And then her mom gave
Speaker 1: me a nice big hug. And then I met one
Speaker 1: of her nephews. So there's only one nephew down, and
Speaker 1: I'm meeting him. By the time this comes out, I
Speaker 1: will have met him because he's coming to the Detroit show.
Speaker 1: So I'm really excited. And I met Bailey the Dog,
Speaker 1: so truly the entire family.
Speaker 2: But I do feel that you and my sister vibe
Speaker 2: like you guys could be friends and hang out without me.
Speaker 3: She's great. I think a lot of people would like her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a good time. I also feel like I
Speaker 2: could hang out with Colin without you.
Speaker 1: You absolutely good. You've already hung out with my cousin
Speaker 1: without me. Am I one of my best friends from
Speaker 1: elementary school without me.
Speaker 3: Wait where Jed. Oh yeah, Jed, But who's your cousin.
Speaker 3: Didn't you meet Sebastian? Yeah, but we didn't hang out
Speaker 3: without you. You were there.
Speaker 1: I thought that I thought you met him the night
Speaker 1: with Jed. Sorry, well it's minutes away from happening.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: And I like the idea of having a friend named Bash.
Speaker 2: But my dad was not on his best behavior. He
Speaker 2: is old, he was drunk and he did have to
Speaker 2: nap sitting up. It was strange, but everyone else was exciting.
Speaker 3: And then she met my nephew who loves to work out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was like, he's a jacked little fourteen
Speaker 1: year old. He's very muscly. But I also ate a
Speaker 1: lot of that food was really good. Lisa's mom is
Speaker 1: like just slaves in the kitchen.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the next day she had to make all
Speaker 2: my nephew's favorite foods to bring to him to college
Speaker 2: for his birthday.
Speaker 3: But she made how many dishes? There was like ten
Speaker 3: dishes on the.
Speaker 1: Table full Thanksgiving And this was a Sunday night, a
Speaker 1: random Sunday, Yeah, random Sunday. Two beet salads and multiple
Speaker 1: beet salads, delicious bread with like an onion, no to
Speaker 1: a garlic creamy cheese dip.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that was so good. I loved the
Speaker 3: potato salad thing too, Olivia. It's my favorite, Olivia, I
Speaker 3: crave all the time.
Speaker 1: And it's supposed to come with peas, but I hate peas,
Speaker 1: so we changed the recipe for me. You know, I yeah,
Speaker 1: that was really good. Peace suck, dude. Peas are awesome.
Speaker 1: We just pulled an audience the other day. It was
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty. I fucking love peas. I asked them
Speaker 1: to be added to my mac and cheese when I'm
Speaker 1: in restaurants. If I'm ordering mac and cheese and Lisa
Speaker 1: hates them, I think they're so good. I think they're sweet.
Speaker 1: They're like they've got that little that little pop.
Speaker 3: When you eat them. I love them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I'm not a good like. I don't like
Speaker 2: lima beans. I'm not in that family. I only love
Speaker 2: reefried beans, even a black bean. I'm like, do I
Speaker 2: really have to?
Speaker 3: I'm a lagome baby. I love a lagome and nuts.
Speaker 1: I think my life would be better if I liked
Speaker 1: nuts and beans. No nuts and an M and m okay,
Speaker 1: a chocolate coating and a candy shell.
Speaker 3: But I wish I could just.
Speaker 2: Grab a couple of pistachios and be like, nice, Oh
Speaker 2: I love that, a little couple of pistachios.
Speaker 3: Did you see me?
Speaker 1: We shared a barad appetizer the other day. I was
Speaker 1: scooping the posastos into my hand.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We went to a place that did have a shooting. Wait,
Speaker 2: hold on, well, we were talking about the fuck.
Speaker 3: We were there. Just to clarify.
Speaker 1: We got wanded on the way in, like with security,
Speaker 1: and we were like, what's going on? We were just
Speaker 1: here and it wasn't like this, And the girl in
Speaker 1: the elevator with us.
Speaker 3: Goes there was a shooting a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2: We were like, oops, if they were If we were
Speaker 2: at a live shooting and we just brushed off that fast,
Speaker 2: I'm shooting, it would be so fucked up. No, we
Speaker 2: were talking about not Oh I learned macaroons or macarons.
Speaker 1: Yes, so macaroons are like to me, are they Jewish?
Speaker 1: Because I always remember having them with you? No, you're right, no, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like they're like from past over. They're like they are
Speaker 1: like a coconut sort of dense cookie dumplingy type thing.
Speaker 1: And then a macarn is like those instagrammable different colors
Speaker 1: like French cookie sandwiches.
Speaker 3: They're different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so thank you too who brought us Makaran's.
Speaker 2: I did really enjoy it and I have enjoyed. This
Speaker 2: is fun together in a room. This never happened.
Speaker 3: We never do this. Yeah, and stay tuned.
Speaker 2: We might have something coming up this month, ye with yeah,
Speaker 2: just just just a wink.
Speaker 3: All we're doing is a wink.
Speaker 1: Yes, stay tuned, keep an eye, keep watch this space,
Speaker 1: as they say.
Speaker 2: And now we will get right into SVU. Enjoy our episode.
Speaker 2: It's fucked up. This is one of the most fucked
Speaker 2: up crimes we have covered. So buckle up, you know,
Speaker 2: cover your children's ears.
Speaker 3: Here's your trigger warning. FYI Like there it is. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and we.
Speaker 2: Don't talk shit about Taylor Swift in this one, so
Speaker 2: you could all relax. I hope you got your tickets
Speaker 2: except the people that wrote to us. I hope you
Speaker 2: didn't get your tickets. I hope the Q didn't work
Speaker 2: for you and your internet Wi Fi came out and
Speaker 2: you couldn't get a seat. But I'm gonna go because
Speaker 2: I'm friends with agents.
Speaker 1: Listen, I wish no ill will against anyone and I
Speaker 1: just wanted to remind you guys about our awesome, existing
Speaker 1: and new merch in our merch store that you can
Speaker 1: find at exactly rightmedia dot com slash shop. It is
Speaker 1: the holiday season, babyes, so go out and get some
Speaker 1: of our cute ass merge. We've got an adorable hot
Speaker 1: pink tank top, a zip up hoodie, and then we
Speaker 1: just added this super cute that's messed up pullover sweatshirt
Speaker 1: that's purple, like classic purple that we talk about all
Speaker 1: the time on the show, and a super fun beanie
Speaker 1: and we're adding new items as well, so keep checking
Speaker 1: back there. And I just wanted to let you guys
Speaker 1: know to order asap if you want stuff in time
Speaker 1: for Christmas, because December eighth is the last day to
Speaker 1: order with standardshipping for delivery by twelve twenty three, so
Speaker 1: we want to make sure you guys get your shit
Speaker 1: in time. So yeah, go to the link in our
Speaker 1: bio on our Instagram that has all of our stuff
Speaker 1: or exactly Rightmedia dot com slash shop and you can
Speaker 1: head to the TMU page and check out all of
Speaker 1: our stuff.
Speaker 3: Happy shopping. Check out our.
Speaker 1: Episode Dominance Season four, episode twenty I feel like people
Speaker 1: have asked for this, We've been wanting to do this.
Speaker 1: This is like a classic. I love this episode even
Speaker 1: though it's sick.
Speaker 3: Okay, it is.
Speaker 2: Sick, but there's twists and turns and yatties and legends.
Speaker 3: Yeah and yeah, yeah a lot of hotties and legends.
Speaker 1: So we once again open up on a couple rushing
Speaker 1: somewhere and complaining like this is New York City's a
Speaker 1: couple's being like, well, if a cab driver it just
Speaker 1: told me, gone the way I said, or like well
Speaker 1: if you had taken this, you know the role for us.
Speaker 3: This is what this is what casting is. Fucking yeah, like.
Speaker 1: We need to be bickering. And then we stumble upon
Speaker 1: a b dat. Yeah, it's like who's paying for what?
Speaker 1: You're looking at a receipt or walking out of a restaurant.
Speaker 1: I go stop being like this.
Speaker 3: I'm like, can you just add movie perfect? Yeah, David Gratziano,
Speaker 3: let's get to it. Yeah, bust the moon. There's nothing
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 1: So this couple is rushing up to like a Brownstone,
Speaker 1: it's winter New York. They're like talking about a like
Speaker 1: the cab driver didn't take the way he said, and
Speaker 1: the girl's like, well, we should have just taken the subway.
Speaker 1: This is me and Jared, because Jared always wanted to
Speaker 1: take cabs. I always wanted to take the subway. And
Speaker 1: the guy goes body slamming my way onto the number
Speaker 1: nine with the great unwashed no thanks, and she calls
Speaker 1: him a snob, which is exactly what I was thinking.
Speaker 1: And also the number nine doesn't exist anymore, but it
Speaker 1: used to be one of my trains. And they buzz
Speaker 1: the apartment a bunch of times, and then they realize
Speaker 1: the door's open. They hustle in and they're apologizing for
Speaker 1: their lateness, and then we see one of the most
Speaker 1: intense body discovery scenes I think we've ever seen on
Speaker 1: the show. Like the living room is ransacked. There are
Speaker 1: four people dead and naked on the ground, furniture everywhere,
Speaker 1: blood splatter all over the place, and I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it's good that the boyfriend's a snob, or they
Speaker 1: would have been two of the other bodies like him
Speaker 1: being a snob about taking a cab save their lives.
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe I should thank Jared. So next scene,
Speaker 1: we see Detective Dave Duthorne, who's played by Eric Palladino,
Speaker 1: who is like a homicide detective maybe in Queens, and
Speaker 1: then he becomes like a temporary SVU guy, but he's
Speaker 1: only in Damaged and this episode, so but he's a
Speaker 1: huge part of this episode, and he's getting the couple
Speaker 1: who discover the scene off to the right people as
Speaker 1: Stabler and Finn walk up and Duthorn is like, they're
Speaker 1: kind of like what you calling us for Duthorn and
Speaker 1: he's like, naked women, fluids everywhere, both raped and shot
Speaker 1: in the head. This guy must be Manhattan homicide because
Speaker 1: it's in Manhattan. So never mind what I said about
Speaker 1: Queens anyway, that's why we brought you guys in. It's
Speaker 1: like there's fluids everywhere, so Finn goes, that's our bread
Speaker 1: and butter. So now we're talking about these people. It's
Speaker 1: like the dinner party from Hell with an orgy. For
Speaker 1: dessert is what one of them says. They find a
Speaker 1: bouquet of flowers that says happy engagement. So this was
Speaker 1: like a dinner party to celebrate that. The happy couple,
Speaker 1: now unfortunately dead, are Evan and Melissa, and they invited
Speaker 1: some grad school friends over to celebrate, and Dean and
Speaker 1: Regina were the other couple who are all dead, and
Speaker 1: then Duthorne thinks it was a home invasion in Finn's like,
Speaker 1: it's got to be at least two perps with this
Speaker 1: many victims, and Melinda's like they're taking notes, and she
Speaker 1: pipes in to say that like all their jewelry has
Speaker 1: been stolen, and that the guys have watchmarks on their wrists,
Speaker 1: the women had like necklace marks or maybe like a
Speaker 1: sign where the necklace was ripped off, and then the
Speaker 1: girls two and a half carrot engagement ring is gone
Speaker 1: and both men were beaten with the butt of a gun,
Speaker 1: and then Melinda drops a bomb like she always does
Speaker 1: to take us into the credits. The men were also raped.
Speaker 1: Done done, it's credit time. Boom boom boom boom boom
Speaker 1: boom boom. Okay, So now we're at the morgue and
Speaker 1: Melinda is telling us that all of the violence was
Speaker 1: pre mortem, like sometimes like I like when she tells
Speaker 1: us like, oh, don't worry, all of the gross shit
Speaker 1: you're seeing happened after they were dead, but not this time.
Speaker 1: She's like, Nope, they felt it all. And Melinda is
Speaker 1: showing them some pubes on her computer, and.
Speaker 2: It's always with Melinda, like the weirdest things where it's
Speaker 2: like no sud in an nostril and it's like who okay,
Speaker 2: Like it's always the wildest example of how she knew
Speaker 2: that they were dead first too.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah she could always. Yeah, She's like, see this laceration,
Speaker 1: it's not really bleeding because they were already dead or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Melinda is showing them some pubes on her computer, and
Speaker 1: it looks like Evan's hairs were found not only on
Speaker 1: his fiance but on the other male victim, So it
Speaker 1: looks like the purps forced them to rape the women
Speaker 1: and then each other, which is wild. And I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: that couple was really really late to this dinner, like
Speaker 1: a lot went on, Like this was a crime that
Speaker 1: went on for a very long ass time. These people
Speaker 1: were extremely late for dinner at the precinct. Daddy Craigan
Speaker 1: is like breaking it all down. The townhouse where this
Speaker 1: all happened belongs to Earl Briggs, CEO of Happy Time Toys,
Speaker 1: which sounds like it's going to go somewhere because it
Speaker 1: says for.
Speaker 3: You, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Evan, one of the murder victims, was his son, and
Speaker 1: he lived there with his fiance and no one else.
Speaker 1: How lovely to live in a townhouse that your millionaire
Speaker 1: father is paying for on the Upper West Side. Earl
Speaker 1: is worth fifty million, but nothing else points to him
Speaker 1: being targeted.
Speaker 3: All the victims are clean.
Speaker 1: They all come from wealthy families and have entry level
Speaker 1: jobs in media. Perfect Finn's got some info. He's like,
Speaker 1: it's only one perp. They found bloody footprints, all from
Speaker 1: the same shoes. They also checked ViCAP and they can't
Speaker 1: find a similar mom anywhere. Craigan cannot believe this dude
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere, and Huang's like, no, he's probably
Speaker 1: been in the system before, like sexual assault, rape, burglary.
Speaker 1: And Duthorn's like, yeah, it's a pretty big jump to this,
Speaker 1: like forced raping and massacre, a massacre at a townhouse,
Speaker 1: like what set him off? And Huang's like, probably one
Speaker 1: of the victims said something to challenge his masculinity. The
Speaker 1: rape was to humiliate them, and killing them was a
Speaker 1: power trip. And he said, if this guy's a sadist,
Speaker 1: he probably enjoyed it and he's going to do it again.
Speaker 1: And Craigan tells Duthorn, Okay, dude, you're temporarily assigned to
Speaker 1: SFU to help with this case, so settle in. Dewthorn
Speaker 1: points out that with the four victims plus the late couple,
Speaker 1: that's six people, but the table was set for seven.
Speaker 3: So who's the last person?
Speaker 1: So they go check what the toy millionaire Evan's dad,
Speaker 1: who's telling them everyone loved my son, no one would
Speaker 1: want to hurt him.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what every parent says, to be fair.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't think anyone was targeting him either personally.
Speaker 1: And he's like, there's some jewelry missing, but none of
Speaker 1: it was worth that much. The most valuable thing that
Speaker 1: this person took was a framed photo of him and
Speaker 1: Evan fishing, and Finn's like, I might have fallen in
Speaker 1: the attack. And the cops we might have it in evidence, like,
Speaker 1: we'll give it, we'll check it out, and they say,
Speaker 1: who do you know who the seventh person might be?
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh, probably Buzzy aka Paul Dumont, who
Speaker 1: just moved back from Boston and they used to go
Speaker 1: to camp together, Buzzy and Evan, and the dad actually
Speaker 1: just got Paul aka Buzzy a job over at No
Speaker 1: Home magazine and he started there two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Buzzy's a definite rich nickname, you know, reminds
Speaker 2: me of a Muffy. Yeah, yeah, you're going to meet
Speaker 2: us in the Hamptons.
Speaker 1: My mom's friend does have a friend named Muffy who
Speaker 1: I see when I go to New Canaan.
Speaker 3: It's a lot rich. Is Muffy? I think pretty rich?
Speaker 1: So anyway, now they're at the magazine and the receptionist
Speaker 1: there is being a real Muffy. She's being a real bitch.
Speaker 1: She's very unhelpful. She says she can't reach Paul and
Speaker 1: she doesn't know if he's in. It's a big company
Speaker 1: and it's not really her job to keep track of
Speaker 1: like who's coming into work and whatnot.
Speaker 3: She calls the.
Speaker 1: Editor and is like, they're like, okay, bitch, like we
Speaker 1: need to talk to him, so figure something out. So
Speaker 1: she calls the editor and he comes right out, and
Speaker 1: she's surprised. She's like, oh, the editor like thinks the
Speaker 1: police are important. So he's coming and the editor is
Speaker 1: so New York. He's like, are you the officers looking
Speaker 1: for Paul Dumont? I'm the editor, Like it's hilarious, and
Speaker 1: then he says he just heard from Paul's parents. There's
Speaker 1: been an accident and he's at Roosevelt Hospital and he's
Speaker 1: not looking good. So at the hospital, you said Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: Like a true New Yorker, I say Rosevelt.
Speaker 3: Oh did I say Roosevelt? Oh you sure did? Oh
Speaker 3: I usually say Roosevelt.
Speaker 1: So at the hospital, we see Paul on a ventilator
Speaker 1: round the head bandage Lesa's favorite kind, and he is
Speaker 1: not looking good, he said, he They there's a doctor there,
Speaker 1: and she says he was brought in the night before
Speaker 1: with massive skull fractures and the doc was surprised he
Speaker 1: was even alive. They rushed him to the oar to
Speaker 1: reduce swelling, but his prognosis is a bleak. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of damage in bleeding, too much for a fall,
Speaker 1: she said, And they're like, who said he fell? And
Speaker 1: she goes, well, the EMS report said he was drunk
Speaker 1: and fell, But then she shows to them the X ray.
Speaker 1: He's got three radiating skull fractures, which is more like
Speaker 1: being whacked in the head with a blunt object. And
Speaker 1: his blood alcohol level twist was zero, so he had
Speaker 1: had nothing to drink. So at the precinct, Munch is
Speaker 1: explaining what happened. Basically, some patrol from another precinct got
Speaker 1: a call about a drunk at the seventy ninth Street station,
Speaker 1: my station, my old station. He was covered in blood
Speaker 1: and he smelled like he'd taken a wine bath, so
Speaker 1: they assumed he was drunk and fell down the stairs.
Speaker 1: But no DNA puts him at the scene of the crime,
Speaker 1: so he like he was the guy who brought the flowers.
Speaker 1: So they're basically piecing it all together. They're like the
Speaker 1: purpse ses this guy going up the stairs with flowers
Speaker 1: and some wine. They whack him on the head as
Speaker 1: like he falls down. They grabbed the flowers and then
Speaker 1: buzz into the apartment like they're delivering them. The docs said,
Speaker 1: it's possible he made it all the way to the
Speaker 1: subway with a skull fracture before he passed out. The
Speaker 1: bottle of wine must have shattered spilled all over him
Speaker 1: when he was attacked, and that's why everybody thinks that
Speaker 1: he was drunk, But really he was just covered in
Speaker 1: wine that he was bringing his engagement gift, and he's
Speaker 1: actually victim number five if he doesn't pull through. Well
Speaker 1: either way, he's victim number five, but dead victim number
Speaker 1: five if he doesn't pull through. Munch hangs up the
Speaker 1: phone and goes, guess what. Victim six and seven just
Speaker 1: turned up in Riverside Park.
Speaker 3: Done. Done.
Speaker 1: So. Now we're at the park and the couple there
Speaker 1: is Russell and Darlene Weston. They're both fifty one, both
Speaker 1: shot in the head, found naked, just like out in
Speaker 1: the park wild. They said blood was found on the
Speaker 1: women's nether regions. I don't like using that phrase, but
Speaker 1: I'm quoting the show. They found a slug in a.
Speaker 3: Tree, so it looks Diddle or another regions.
Speaker 1: I hate both of them, but I think Diddle is worse.
Speaker 1: They found a slug in a tree. It looks like
Speaker 1: a three eighty, and they're going to run ballistics. I
Speaker 1: know so little about guns, Like you could say any
Speaker 1: kind of gun. I'm like, oh, is that a one
Speaker 1: that kills people better than other ones? Like I really
Speaker 1: know nothing about guns. They also found a key ring
Speaker 1: and the house keys are on it, but the key
Speaker 1: rink is The key ring's kind of like bent, and
Speaker 1: it looks like maybe something was ripped off of it.
Speaker 3: Like maybe a car key.
Speaker 1: Their cash and their cards are all gone, along with
Speaker 1: their jewelry. Six murders in two days, Dumont will make seven.
Speaker 1: This is a spree killer done done. End of act
Speaker 1: one at the precinct. Now, Olivia is addressing this full
Speaker 1: task force of people and tells them add Paul Dumont
Speaker 1: to the lost column. He died an hour ago. Rip
Speaker 1: Buzzy sad seven victims. Both scenes are within twenty blocks
Speaker 1: and Craigan goes, this guy has killed more people in
Speaker 1: two days than the Son of Sam did in four months,
Speaker 1: which is wild because Son of Sam like terrorized the city.
Speaker 1: That's what well I was gonna say. I thought you're
Speaker 1: gonna say what I was going to say.
Speaker 2: Which is like, yeah, he's so fake, like so well
Speaker 2: known movies about him, like laws are made about him.
Speaker 2: Was it because it was the seventies, Like I don't
Speaker 2: understand he's such a famous killer for not?
Speaker 1: I I think he was also because he was like
Speaker 1: going after women who had a specific look, and I
Speaker 1: don't know, and it was like no one knew when
Speaker 1: he was going to strike again because there was all
Speaker 1: this time in between, So I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's that's what it was. No, no, like where
Speaker 3: how they're going to be sick?
Speaker 1: Because I remember my mom telling me something about people
Speaker 1: like girls wearing wigs. Like girls were like, I think
Speaker 1: I forget if son of Sam went after blondes.
Speaker 3: I think he did.
Speaker 1: And so like my mom was like, I was fine
Speaker 1: because I was a brunette, but I had blonde friends
Speaker 1: who would like wear wigs.
Speaker 3: Damn. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, Craigan goes, you've all got your assignments.
Speaker 1: Let's get this guy. And then we get kind of
Speaker 1: an info dump, like the same gun was used on
Speaker 1: the Westons and the Briggs townhouse.
Speaker 3: So now we've connected these crimes. They're all the same killer.
Speaker 1: The Westons boats tested positive for fluids on the rape kits,
Speaker 1: but no stray. Same mo perp forced them to have sex.
Speaker 1: Missus Weston had bruising on her face like she was
Speaker 1: pistol whipped, and they were like, oh, yeah, he probably
Speaker 1: pistol whiped the wife until her husband got it up,
Speaker 1: and he probably did the same thing at the townhouse.
Speaker 3: So what do they have in common?
Speaker 1: It turns out that the thing that was ripped off
Speaker 1: the keychain was a photo of her grandson, and then
Speaker 1: the purp also took that picture of Evan and his
Speaker 1: dad fishing. Huang is there to weigh in on what
Speaker 1: that all means. He says, these are specific trophies. He's
Speaker 1: trying to destroy happy families. He's probably jealous because he
Speaker 1: had a miserable family life. There was probably abuse, and
Speaker 1: he's going to keep going until we stop him.
Speaker 3: Yikes.
Speaker 1: Now we're at Riverside Park with our girl CSCU Captain
Speaker 1: Judas Cipher, who is telling Monk and this, by the way,
Speaker 1: is her first episode. This is the first time we're
Speaker 1: meeting our girl Judy. Okay, she's telling Munch and Dewthorn
Speaker 1: what is up. They found distinct footprints, two belonging to
Speaker 1: the Westons, one to the perp in work boots. He
Speaker 1: ran from the bodies to this point, and so she
Speaker 1: can tell that he was running because of the way,
Speaker 1: like the foot is angle and so the Westons were
Speaker 1: up on the side sidewalk are purp forced them into
Speaker 1: the park and then they're like, why would he come
Speaker 1: back here where he could be seen? And they think, oh,
Speaker 1: he must have parked his car here as perfectly legal
Speaker 1: to park here. He must be traveling by car?
Speaker 3: This is it?
Speaker 1: Maybe someone in one of these buildings remembers the car. Crazy,
Speaker 1: there's probably a thousand departments that look onto that spot,
Speaker 1: and they're like, let's just see if any of these
Speaker 1: people looked out the window and saw anything for the car. Like,
Speaker 1: it's just crazy that that's what's making the plot move
Speaker 1: forward at this point, but that you know, they do
Speaker 1: that sometimes. Cut to Finn and Dwthorne just knocking on
Speaker 1: one of a thousand doors to say, hey, do you
Speaker 1: remember a car last night? And Finn is telling Dewthorn
Speaker 1: that most spree killers get caught because they can't resist
Speaker 1: baiting the cops. But this guy's not giving them but
Speaker 1: jack shit, he's like not engaging, like, you know, dear
Speaker 1: mister policeman, you could have found her, you know. But
Speaker 1: now they're not having any luck with the door knocking either,
Speaker 1: big surprise.
Speaker 3: So then on this next door they.
Speaker 1: Knock on, a big big man opens the door in
Speaker 1: a Tommy Bahama shirt and he immediately hates them.
Speaker 3: He's like, how do you get past the doorman? Which
Speaker 3: we've heard before.
Speaker 1: We heard that in the episode Families with Stephanie Seymour.
Speaker 1: How'd you get pess the do woman. So his name
Speaker 1: is Rennie Nicks and he is acab as hell. He's like,
Speaker 1: you can't just barge in here like Hawaii five, Oh
Speaker 1: why aren't you finding the killer?
Speaker 3: And he's like, they're like, sir, that's like what we're
Speaker 3: doing right now. So they're like, do you have a car?
Speaker 3: He goes, no, get lost and slams the door in
Speaker 3: their faces.
Speaker 1: So outside, Finn is kind of getting Dewthorne's story, like, so,
Speaker 1: what are you like thirty? How'd you get into homicide
Speaker 1: so quickly? Like get your gold shield? Like to become
Speaker 1: a detective by thirty seems tough, I guess, and he was.
Speaker 1: He basically admits right away. He's like I was neighbors
Speaker 1: with somebody high up, like the commissioner was my neighbor
Speaker 1: or something like that. And so Finn's like, oh, so
Speaker 1: you parash shoot it into homicide and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: keep talking about it, and I'll parachute my ass right
Speaker 1: back to homicide. I don't need a lecture. And Finn's like,
Speaker 1: you do your job, You've got no problem with me.
Speaker 1: So it's like Finn wanted to rip him a little bit,
Speaker 1: but it was like, now you're fine. And then they
Speaker 1: are approached by this woman whose name is Brenda, and
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm Rennie Nickx's wife. I'm sorry my husband
Speaker 1: was such a terrible asshole minutes ago. And she says
Speaker 1: she's their magic witness. She says, around midnight, I was
Speaker 1: closing my curtains and I saw a man and a
Speaker 1: woman standing there next to a car, and a man
Speaker 1: got out of the car and walked behind them into
Speaker 1: the park. I didn't see the face, but I remember
Speaker 1: that the car was gold, and from my apartment on
Speaker 1: at least the fifth floor of a building, I did
Speaker 1: see two numbers of the license plate. My eyes are
Speaker 1: supercharged by some kind of uranium. What are you talking about.
Speaker 1: There's just no way you would see this license weight,
Speaker 1: So she goes, I saw that the last numbers of
Speaker 1: the licenseate were three to five. That's my daughter's birthday,
Speaker 1: March fifth. Okay, it would maybe it be better to
Speaker 1: just be like I was walking my dog and this
Speaker 1: is what I saw. Stop that people are paying attention
Speaker 1: to anything out of their windows. It doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me, but she goes, I wouldn't know alexis from
Speaker 1: a Lincoln and I'm like, that is strange because you
Speaker 1: are the most observant person I've ever seen. And so
Speaker 1: they bring her into the station and she describes all
Speaker 1: the features of the car perfectly, remembers where the license
Speaker 1: plate was, what the lights did, like how they wrap around,
Speaker 1: like all this stuff, and they identify the car with
Speaker 1: this like car id supercomputer and boom, it's a Ford Contour.
Speaker 1: Finn finds a ninety five Ford Contour on Central Park
Speaker 1: West that was recently reported stolen. So now we are
Speaker 1: at the park Place apartments on Central Park West and
Speaker 1: we've got Ian Summerholder, who people love from the Vampire Diaries.
Speaker 3: He's very hot man. People love him.
Speaker 1: I think he used to date Nina Dobrev from the
Speaker 1: Vampire Diaries and then not together anymore. No, No, they're
Speaker 1: like updating now. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get messages. He's
Speaker 1: very you know, he's very cute, and he's like limping
Speaker 1: and leading the detectives into his apartment and they're like,
Speaker 1: are you al Baker and he's like, no, I'm Charlie.
Speaker 2: I have the update. I have the update live live
Speaker 2: on the pot Live. He smolder Holder. He married Twilight
Speaker 2: alum Nikki Reid. Yes, that's right, Smolder Holder in April
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, just the head of her Vampires Exit but whatever, I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to think if I want.
Speaker 1: But they're from separate vampire shows, right, Like he's a
Speaker 1: vampire from Vampire Diaries and she's a vampire from Twilight.
Speaker 3: Like they're separate vampires. She's been in both.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, I think she's fully in both in
Speaker 2: terms of that. I think I watched their What I
Speaker 2: Eat in a Day. But you know a lot of
Speaker 2: these people blend together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Nina Doe brev is like recently married to
Speaker 1: somebody as well, but like who's I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: not anybody, but uh, yes, they were like a hot
Speaker 1: couple of months when she's with I actually love this.
Speaker 2: She's dating Sean White, the snowboard snowboarder and they haven't
Speaker 2: for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like him. You've obviously, I think we've
Speaker 2: probably even talked about the podcast. This famous moment on
Speaker 2: TV after he won all those medals. He was like
Speaker 2: on a news program doing the interviews and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I was on the flight and everyone was handing
Speaker 2: me drinks and they're like, aren't you you're under twenty one, and.
Speaker 3: He goes a mountain dew baby. That's so quick, so quick.
Speaker 1: He was just like so quick to mention mountain dew
Speaker 1: A mountain dew baby.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: But I just love snowboarding and skateboarding as like a
Speaker 2: sport so much because I love that it's like a stone.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're actually stoners, but I like
Speaker 2: that it's the bad boys, the casual like obviously they're
Speaker 2: working hard and they're athletes, but they still have this
Speaker 2: relatable fun energy.
Speaker 3: So I like those kinds of sports.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to make everybody drink on a Tuesday
Speaker 1: morning when they're trying to get to work. But I
Speaker 1: did work at the Torino Olympics in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and I worked on the Today Show and I went
Speaker 1: with Katie Koric to the mountains to do an interview
Speaker 1: with Sean White one, so I met him for two seconds.
Speaker 3: So nice, nice boy.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when Bob Costas had pink eye and
Speaker 2: it took over Olympic reporting forever?
Speaker 3: Yes, that was more recently, not my year, Thank god.
Speaker 3: It's just.
Speaker 1: So he says, Oh, are you Al Baker And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm Charlie Baker. Owl's my dad. And he seems like
Speaker 1: he just does not give a fuck about life. The
Speaker 1: guy is like, you know, limping his wind primary like yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: that's my dad, Like fuck off, like he does not care.
Speaker 1: And Finn introduces himself to Al played by Franklin Agella,
Speaker 1: a very famous actor the Americans, right tons of stuff.
Speaker 1: He also dated Whoopy Goldberg.
Speaker 3: Hello, and.
Speaker 1: Finn tells him that they're part of the Auto Squad,
Speaker 1: so they're kind of like, you know, playing this guy
Speaker 1: a little bit. And he tells Charlie, you better get
Speaker 1: to work, and don't forget your brother Billy. It's really
Speaker 1: funny to say don't forget your brother Billy, like and
Speaker 1: to name him as if he doesn't know who.
Speaker 3: His brother is. But it's for the exposition of the show.
Speaker 1: And he says, three days ago he brought his car
Speaker 1: to a plumbing supply place in Jersey. When he came
Speaker 1: out to get the car, it was gone, and Finn says, well,
Speaker 1: it was a Ford, so no one wants the parts
Speaker 1: and it was probably just a kid looking for a
Speaker 1: joy ride. We'll get back to you on this, and
Speaker 1: Al's like, thank you, shakes their hands. Right before they leave,
Speaker 1: they ask Al because he's got this big like gash
Speaker 1: on his forehead with two like butterfly stitches on it,
Speaker 1: and he's like, our butterfly bandages. Sorry, and he goes,
Speaker 1: how'd you get that? And he goes, oh, working on
Speaker 1: a sink. I hit it on a cabinet, occupational hazard.
Speaker 1: As they leave in the hallway, duth Thorn's like, occupational hazard,
Speaker 1: my ass. That guy smells like he bathes in Johnny Walker.
Speaker 1: So then they they're like talking shit about these kids' dad,
Speaker 1: and they immediately run into the kids in the hallway,
Speaker 1: still getting their asses to work, and they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's a drag you lost your car, and Billy's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sucks for my daddy won't be able to pick
Speaker 1: up stuff for the building. And Billy is played by
Speaker 1: Jason Ritterer, Hollywood Royalty, son of John Ridder, married to
Speaker 1: Melanie Lynski. Our a little yellowjacket baby and I was
Speaker 1: in a commercial for Carvana with his brother.
Speaker 3: Lovely guy.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Finn gets a phone call as we're talking to
Speaker 1: the boys and walks away and Duthorn's like, oh, you guys,
Speaker 1: don't use that car, and Charlie's like, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: piece of shit, Like what are we going.
Speaker 3: To pick up girls with that? Lol?
Speaker 1: They're laughing ha ha ha, and they're like, we got
Speaker 1: to get to work. So they peace out. Fann hangs
Speaker 1: upon and we find out we found the contour with
Speaker 1: two more bodies in it. Boom, Oh my god, so
Speaker 1: many twists. The car is parked in Central Park. The
Speaker 1: steering column hasn't been touched, so the thief had to
Speaker 1: have had a key, like no one was in there.
Speaker 1: Jacket it open with like a you know, screwdriver, and
Speaker 1: the victims are on the ground nearby.
Speaker 3: It's two men named Adam and Craig. They're both twenty two.
Speaker 1: The cash has gone from their wallet, their watches are gone,
Speaker 1: they've been dead six to eight hours. Their clothes are on.
Speaker 1: So was there a sexual assault involved? And Melinda's like,
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten that far yet. But one of them
Speaker 1: has their fly open and they're like, well, this is
Speaker 1: a lover's lane. Maybe they were getting busy, and it's
Speaker 1: like yeah, but why would the purp ditch the ride?
Speaker 1: And it looks like they took Adam's car, a silver
Speaker 1: Accura which is registered in ten Offly, New Jersey. Finn
Speaker 1: and Juthorn go to the house and speak to Adam,
Speaker 1: one of the victim's fathers, and he goes, yeah, Adam
Speaker 1: borrowed the car the night before and we haven't heard
Speaker 1: from him.
Speaker 3: Are him and Greg? And the girl's Okay?
Speaker 1: What girls? Yeah, now we know that there's two girls
Speaker 1: and they are missing.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Top of act three, we find out these girls are
Speaker 1: Claudia and Diane, twenty one, roommates at Barnard hopefully friends
Speaker 1: with Michelle Collins. They were double dating and with the
Speaker 1: two guys that were found in the park. No one's
Speaker 1: heard from them. They're just in the wind. And Craigan
Speaker 1: is like, fully traffic copy again, He's like, let's check
Speaker 1: credit cards? How we do it on the tip line?
Speaker 1: And Munch always is at the tip line and is
Speaker 1: always like hates smanning the phones and is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember the white van and the DC sniper Like
Speaker 1: they're basically getting all kinds of crazy tips people that
Speaker 1: think that they've seen these cars.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Ballistics confirms that these two guys were killed with the
Speaker 1: same guns. So these are victims eight and nine. This
Speaker 1: is a wild amount of people to kill in like
Speaker 1: three days. And Stabler's like, why snag these two women now?
Speaker 1: Like everyone else who they've just like left dead in
Speaker 1: their wake, Andhong's like, they're living trophies and he's probably
Speaker 1: stashing them somewhere, and they're like, well, what's changed, and
Speaker 1: he's like his confidence. He's used the victims as surrogates
Speaker 1: to rape each other, but now he's ready to do
Speaker 1: it himself. And his emma is all over the map,
Speaker 1: the gun the Upper West Side. He targets couples, I.
Speaker 3: Like Ziffa who targeted cousins, though no I saw her
Speaker 3: cousins coubled.
Speaker 1: And he's a loner who has trouble making connections with people,
Speaker 1: so people in successful relationships really trigger him, and kidnapping
Speaker 1: these women is a way to fulfill his fantasy. When
Speaker 1: he's done, or one of these women pisses him off,
Speaker 1: he's gonna kill them. So we were like on borrow
Speaker 1: time right now, and they may just have caught a break.
Speaker 3: Csu has something.
Speaker 1: Now we're back with Jude's cipher and they can't find
Speaker 1: much in the car, but she found footprints consistent with
Speaker 1: the footprints at other scenes, and we know the guys
Speaker 1: between five A and five ten based on the foot impressions.
Speaker 1: And he's wearing these outdoor wear explorers, which are basically
Speaker 1: Timberlin's right, and she says, these are great boots for
Speaker 1: finding evidence because I think they just grab so much
Speaker 1: in their big treads.
Speaker 3: And so she did find some stuff.
Speaker 1: She found wood, it's pine, oak and cherry, as well
Speaker 1: as some fiberglass, so maybe this guy works in construction,
Speaker 1: and she's like, that's what I thought till I found
Speaker 1: the rest. She also found grass seed rye and Kentucky bluegrass,
Speaker 1: so ju Thorn's like, even my old man's not making
Speaker 1: me seed the grass in the middle of winter, so
Speaker 1: it's weird that there'd be grass seeds in his boots
Speaker 1: because it's like wintertime, it's snowing out, and literally a
Speaker 1: bunch of these scenes and so she doubts it came
Speaker 1: from the park. And she also found a common pesticide
Speaker 1: fertilizer and metal shavings like from a key cutting machine.
Speaker 1: Sounds like home Depot, so obviously this is someone who
Speaker 1: works at a home improvement store like home Depot. Captain
Speaker 1: Ziper gets word that the silver Accura suv has turned
Speaker 1: up with another body in it, but it was somebody
Speaker 1: alive who was sleeping in it back.
Speaker 3: At the precinct.
Speaker 1: Live says the suv was found at forty ninth between
Speaker 1: eighth and ninth and Hell's Kitchen. She got a description
Speaker 1: from the unhouse man that was sitting inside of it.
Speaker 1: He said the driver was average height, young, dark hair,
Speaker 1: blue eyes.
Speaker 3: Not really a lot to go on. That's a lot
Speaker 3: of people.
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to canvass every home improvement store that
Speaker 1: sells lumbers. They're only solid lead. Olivia says. So now
Speaker 1: we're at G and C Improvements on Amsterdam. Maybe they
Speaker 1: have canvas ten stores at this point on the show,
Speaker 1: it always seems like they hit the jackpot on the
Speaker 1: first store they go to. They're at GNC Improvements on
Speaker 1: Amsterdam and they're talking to the boss and he's like, yes,
Speaker 1: a bunch of my employees match that description, and he
Speaker 1: just starts naming dudes and then he says Billy Baker,
Speaker 1: and Finn's like, wait, I remember the name Billy Baker,
Speaker 1: and the boss goes, I can't imagine it would be him.
Speaker 3: He's a dream employee. He's worked here for three years.
Speaker 1: He's only been late one time and it was the
Speaker 1: other day he said his car was stolen. Okay, so
Speaker 1: there's too many coincidences happening. Now Finn and Duthorne are
Speaker 1: reporting to Craigan with a headshot of Billy and they're like,
Speaker 1: they explained that the.
Speaker 3: Car was never boosted.
Speaker 1: Billy must have taken it ditchit in Central Park when
Speaker 1: he knew that they were looking for it, and Wong's
Speaker 1: here with the profile.
Speaker 3: Billy is the super's kid.
Speaker 1: He grew up with rich people who probably treated him
Speaker 1: like shit and you know, alcoholic dad whatever. So do
Speaker 1: we pick him up. It's a power game if we
Speaker 1: arrest him. Now, he may never tell us where the
Speaker 1: missing women are. So they decide that they're going to
Speaker 1: sit on him twenty four to seven to make sure
Speaker 1: he doesn't kill anyone, and that let's give him back
Speaker 1: the car so he has some transportation to get going.
Speaker 1: So now Dewthorn and Finn are taking their shift watching
Speaker 1: Billy and Duthorne is reading the National Bugle, which is
Speaker 1: essentially the National Inquirer, and it has the headline I
Speaker 1: had sex with Siamese twins and Finn's like, why do
Speaker 1: you read this shit? And he's like, I have an
Speaker 1: inquiring mind, and I thought that was funny. And Duthorn says,
Speaker 1: the average murders are kind of easy. It's like a
Speaker 1: drug dealer killing another drug dealer. It's a bar fight
Speaker 1: gone too far. You just chase down the who. Sex
Speaker 1: crimes are about the why the city is a three
Speaker 1: ring circus and SVU is the freak show. Put it
Speaker 1: on a T shirt. I mean, that's a great, you know,
Speaker 1: great quote. Finn goes, and you want to be the
Speaker 1: ring master, and Duthorn goes, I want to know what
Speaker 1: makes them freaks. So now boom Billy pulls out on
Speaker 1: the move in the contour and they follow him. He
Speaker 1: pulls over and uses an ATM and he pulls out
Speaker 1: a piece of paper to plug in the pin. So
Speaker 1: clearly it's a stolen card. And it's lightly snowing, and
Speaker 1: it reminds me of like, you know, first nice snows
Speaker 1: in New York, and I kind of like it. And
Speaker 1: they decide to they're like, let's move, like, let's arrest.
Speaker 1: They radio back to base and they all decide like,
Speaker 1: let's arrest him. So he sees them coming and he
Speaker 1: tries to run. They obviously get him, like, don't you're
Speaker 1: so dumb. You're not going to outrun two cops and
Speaker 1: dueth Orm slams up against the car and puts a
Speaker 1: gun against his head, like is this how you did it?
Speaker 1: Making them plead for their lives, and Finn is like, dude,
Speaker 1: chill out, chill like, calm down, and then Finn says
Speaker 1: the ATM will be enough to get a warrant to
Speaker 1: search his house, so you know, he kind of goes
Speaker 1: stabler on him a little bit. And then in the
Speaker 1: next scene they're tearing apart the house but they're not
Speaker 1: finding anything, and Charlie says, you guys are making a
Speaker 1: big mistake. Billy would never do something like this, and
Speaker 1: the dad al says he has access to the whole building.
Speaker 1: We keep the master key in my office, like, and
Speaker 1: his brother pipes in. He's been hanging out in the
Speaker 1: basement a lot lately. So between the two of them,
Speaker 1: they're really not cutting their brother any brakes, Like you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to talk to the cops at all, but
Speaker 1: you're certainly not supposed to like tell them what your
Speaker 1: brother's been doing. And Charlie is like, don't you need
Speaker 1: a warrant or something, and Craigan's like, not if we
Speaker 1: have the owner's consent. Clearly he gives consent because in
Speaker 1: the next scene they're in the basement. They find the
Speaker 1: full mother load, a picture, the picture of Evan Briggs
Speaker 1: with his dad fishing, the grandson on the keychain, the
Speaker 1: engagement ring, a pair of outdoor work boots, like it's
Speaker 1: all there. Dow Thorn and Finn have billion interrogation and
Speaker 1: they're laying out all the evidence in front of him,
Speaker 1: like game over, dude, and he's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. But he's like not being a dick.
Speaker 1: He's not like one of these cocky killers. Like he
Speaker 1: seems very upset and he's crying and Douthorne shoves the
Speaker 1: photo of the boots in his face and he's like,
Speaker 1: explain yourself.
Speaker 3: This is a one way ticket to a lethal injection.
Speaker 1: And he's like, tell us where the girls are and
Speaker 1: maybe the DA will spare you the death penalty and
Speaker 1: if they die, it's over for you. Don't blow this,
Speaker 1: and he just keeps saying, I want to talk to
Speaker 1: my brother, and he says, I'll tell you whatever you
Speaker 1: want if I can talk to my brother, and they're worried.
Speaker 1: The brother will tell him to lawyer up, and the
Speaker 1: case is bulletproof even without a confession. But we just
Speaker 1: need to find those girls. So Craigan wants Finn, Duthorn
Speaker 1: and Huang listening to every word when the brother goes in.
Speaker 1: So now al and Charlie are there, and Alic's like,
Speaker 1: maybe I should call a lawyer, and Charlie's like, no
Speaker 1: lawyer in the world will be able to help him.
Speaker 3: Out of this.
Speaker 1: Like Charlie's just like, okay, I guess my brother did it,
Speaker 1: even though I said ten minutes ago that he could
Speaker 1: never have done that. And Charlie's like, let me talk
Speaker 1: to him. So now we're watching the brothers talk through
Speaker 1: one way glass. Billy immediately apologizes to Charlie and he
Speaker 1: says he's screwed up.
Speaker 3: He's like, I screwed up? Are you mad at me?
Speaker 3: And Charlie's like, no, you're my brother. We gotta work
Speaker 3: this out.
Speaker 1: This conversation is so weird, the fact that they don't
Speaker 1: flag this conversation immediately. It's a bizarre combo and he's like,
Speaker 1: the cops want you to show them where the women are,
Speaker 1: and he goes, I won't do it. And he goes,
Speaker 1: you have to do the right thing here, Billy, you
Speaker 1: have to be strong, be a man. Billy says, I am.
Speaker 1: Can't you see that. Charlie grabs his arm and says,
Speaker 1: no matter what happens, I am always here for you.
Speaker 1: Then they both say I love you and that's it,
Speaker 1: Like what, like you should just if it was a
Speaker 1: normal brother, he would just go where are the girls?
Speaker 3: Dude? Tell me where the girls are.
Speaker 1: Finn's like he's not going to give a shit, and
Speaker 1: Huang thinks it's strange that he didn't ask for the dad.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, Charlie is sober and the dad isn't.
Speaker 1: And Charlie comes out and goes sorry. Detectives Craigan comes
Speaker 1: in and says they got two more bodies in Greenwich Village,
Speaker 1: way out of the killer's comfort zone, and Finn's like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck. We get to the crime scene and
Speaker 1: Melinda's giving us a rundown. The vics are Iris and
Speaker 1: Daniel Braverman. They're in their mid twenties. They were just
Speaker 1: ever been is the last name of the family and parenthood.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: I knew. I knew the name from somewhere. So they
Speaker 1: were discovered by their maid. So clearly they've got a
Speaker 1: little bit of money too. She was shot in the head.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have a housekeeper.
Speaker 3: Yeah, comes every two weeks. They say, their maid.
Speaker 2: I never would call her that, Like, what do you
Speaker 2: call her? I say my cleaning person? But yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean I just call her by her first name most
Speaker 1: of the time. But yes, my cleaning person.
Speaker 2: But she if I talk to someone, because I tell
Speaker 2: people a lot, because you know, messiness is one of
Speaker 2: the things that is Cleanliness is hard for me.
Speaker 3: So she has really changed my life.
Speaker 2: I mean, being able to pack and not worry about
Speaker 2: how I'm leaving the place and then have you let
Speaker 2: her in and then come home to a clean place
Speaker 2: has really been life changing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I talk about her a lot. But you
Speaker 3: never say you're maid. No, I say cleaning person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say cleaning lady.
Speaker 3: But that seems bad. That's why I just said person
Speaker 3: on the podcast. I was lying. I say cleaning lady.
Speaker 3: She is a lady. She is a lady.
Speaker 1: Like when I text her, I'm like Hey lady, anyway,
Speaker 1: shout out we love you. She doesn't listen. But what's up.
Speaker 1: So the girl victim iris was shot in the head.
Speaker 1: The husband, it seems, was shot in the face because
Speaker 1: his apparently his face is like gone and the shooter
Speaker 1: put the gun right between his eyes. The woman was
Speaker 1: rape but the husband wasn't, so it seems like maybe
Speaker 1: the purp did. At this time, they're dead less than
Speaker 1: six hours. But Billy's been in custody all night, so
Speaker 1: could be a copycap, but more likely he had a partner,
Speaker 1: and Wong says, whoever it was, this was personal. We
Speaker 1: need to check into their backgrounds asap. We find out
Speaker 1: immediately Daniel Braverman grew up in the building that Billy
Speaker 1: and Charlie's dad manages like stop going after victims that
Speaker 1: are connected.
Speaker 3: To your building.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Suddenly Duthorne comes screaming.
Speaker 3: I got it, I got it. Through the hallway.
Speaker 1: He goes same gun, but there are two perps and
Speaker 1: he tacks up two shoe prints. It's the same shoe
Speaker 1: print found at both scenes, but one purp walks normal
Speaker 1: and done done.
Speaker 3: The other one walks with a limp just like Charlie.
Speaker 1: Does ye fit that's not putting in a limp for
Speaker 1: no reason exactly. And also Ian summerholder while hot, I
Speaker 1: guess if you're like a teen and you like vampires,
Speaker 1: has psycho eyes like his eyes like look crazy. Like
Speaker 1: from the second I saw him, I'm like, this kid
Speaker 1: looks like a psycho Like. It's just like crazy that
Speaker 1: anyone would think of these two brothers. Little Jason Rider
Speaker 1: that's like me, it wasn't me, like, has the sweetest
Speaker 1: little face. And then this like psycho boy that's like, well,
Speaker 1: my brother sure did something pretty bad check the basement,
Speaker 1: like it's just crazy. No one like took one look
Speaker 1: at his face anyway. Huang realizes that their convo in
Speaker 1: interrogation was all in act. It was like subtle communication,
Speaker 1: and Charlie was telling Billy to stay strong and keep
Speaker 1: his mouth shut. Charlie is the dominant one dominance baby
Speaker 1: the name of the episode take a drink, So they
Speaker 1: say go pick him up, but go easy. If he
Speaker 1: knows we're on to him, he might kill the women
Speaker 1: if he hasn't already. So at the building they're talking
Speaker 1: to al and the Dad's like, I don't know where
Speaker 1: Charlie is and said his work called and said he
Speaker 1: never showed up, and the dad seems lightly sauced, and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you want Charlie for something bad now too,
Speaker 1: But he doesn't seem surprised. He says, if Billy did
Speaker 1: what you said he did, then Charlie put him up
Speaker 1: to it, it's like wait to like now, just be
Speaker 1: talking about that and speaking up. Al says Billy can't
Speaker 1: do anything without someone telling him too. He's never made
Speaker 1: a decision on his own and his whole life. Finn
Speaker 1: flips on him and says, come on, man, we've got
Speaker 1: two missing women and not a lot of time and
Speaker 1: starts kind of backing him into a corner and the
Speaker 1: Dad's like, okay, okay, just.
Speaker 3: Don't hit me. Don't hit me.
Speaker 1: He says it like two times, like he's very scared,
Speaker 1: and he's like, does anyone know where Charlie is? And
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, his girlfriend, he had that slut work together.
Speaker 3: Okay. The dad is all over the blaze and the girlfriend.
Speaker 1: They go to this coffee shop where the girlfriend is like,
Speaker 1: what are why are you asking me where Charlie is?
Speaker 1: And she's like, because you're his girlfriend, and she goes
Speaker 1: I was his girlfriend. I dumped his ass six months ago.
Speaker 1: He's crazy and it's like, yeah, I've also looked in
Speaker 1: his face. He seems crazy and she goes, him and
Speaker 1: his brother are crazy. She said Billy was cute and quick,
Speaker 1: so she didn't mine when Charlie asked her to break
Speaker 1: him in, So she was having sex with both brothers,
Speaker 1: like just as a favor to her boyfriend.
Speaker 3: She was having sex with the brother to break him
Speaker 3: in on women. So then the.
Speaker 1: Last time Charlie climbed into bed with her and Billy
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, a threesome and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: a threesome that became a twosome and I wasn't one of.
Speaker 3: The two, so yikes. Twist. We're at brotherly incest now.
Speaker 1: Finn and Juthorn are like speechless, and the girl says
Speaker 1: Billy didn't want to Charlie made him. Billy was crying
Speaker 1: so loud that the dad came in and caught them,
Speaker 1: and Charlie threatened to kill all of them if she
Speaker 1: ever told. So that's why she's never said anything. But
Speaker 1: she did break up with his ass. They bring the
Speaker 1: dad in for questioning and he's still lit as hell,
Speaker 1: and he's like, why am I here? I don't know anything,
Speaker 1: and Huang's like, tell me again, how you hurt yourself,
Speaker 1: like with that head injury, and he lies again and
Speaker 1: is like, h hit myself And Duthorne asked if he's
Speaker 1: been drinking and he's like, so, I like a pop
Speaker 1: now and then who cares and Finn screams at him,
Speaker 1: calling him a drunk and he falls off his chair
Speaker 1: and again starts begging don't hit me, don't hit me,
Speaker 1: and Finn's like, I'm not trying to hurt you.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to help you.
Speaker 1: And Huang asks who's been beating you and he says
Speaker 1: no one, and they're like was it Charlie and he
Speaker 1: goes no, And then then they say, well, what about
Speaker 1: catching him having sex with Billy? Did that happen? And
Speaker 1: he says, yeah, he was raping Billy. I told him
Speaker 1: to leave him alone. He laughed at me and called
Speaker 1: me a drunk loser who couldn't keep a woman ouch,
Speaker 1: and then he told me he was going to do
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted. I tried to pull him off of
Speaker 1: Billy and he pushed me away, and then Al called
Speaker 1: him a gay slur which Benngela says in the episode.
Speaker 1: So Charlie hit him again and again, and now he
Speaker 1: hits me every day. Billy has never hurt him. He's
Speaker 1: a good boy. He wouldn't hurt a fly unless Charlie
Speaker 1: told him to. So Charlie put that stuff in the
Speaker 1: basement he stole from residence, and he said he would
Speaker 1: lose his job if he told anybody. So they ask
Speaker 1: is he hiding the women and he says no, I
Speaker 1: don't know where they are. They ask if he's hiding
Speaker 1: Charlie and he's like, you guys don't get it. He's
Speaker 1: going to kill me. And Finn's like, he's never going
Speaker 1: to be able to hurt you again. But if you
Speaker 1: hide him and these women die, you are fucked. So
Speaker 1: he finally gives it up and goes he's in an
Speaker 1: apartment in the building. One of the residents is on vacation,
Speaker 1: and then Lyndell starts crying, sad.
Speaker 3: It's sad.
Speaker 1: I hope Oscar never hits me or Rosie. Actually it's
Speaker 1: more likely to be Rosie, but I hope neither of
Speaker 1: them do. The cops bust in and grab him and
Speaker 1: he won't stop struggling and he yells threats at his
Speaker 1: dad and the dad says, I should have killed you
Speaker 1: for what you did to Billy, and he says, Billy
Speaker 1: hates you more than I do, and then like he
Speaker 1: kind of was trying to reach into a couch when
Speaker 1: he got there, but they grabbed him first. And they
Speaker 1: find a three eighty baretta, which is the exact like
Speaker 1: wet weapon in all of these murders, and they're like,
Speaker 1: this is what you're looking for, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: two more seconds and you'd all be dead. So he's
Speaker 1: like essentially immediately confessing, and he says, you're never going
Speaker 1: to find those bitches. They're going to die and you're
Speaker 1: never going to find them, and he's so scary and creepy.
Speaker 1: In interrogation, Duthorne just keeps asking him where are the girls?
Speaker 1: Where are the girls? And he's like, you are wasting
Speaker 1: your time. I will not ever tell you. And they
Speaker 1: start really going in on the bad copp routine, telling
Speaker 1: him that Al told them everything, and his girlfriend says
Speaker 1: he can't get it up, but you can get it
Speaker 1: up for your brother, huh, And he's like, you can
Speaker 1: think you guys are better than me, Like those rich
Speaker 1: people think you can push me around like they did,
Speaker 1: and he's like, and I showed them.
Speaker 3: And he like he screams it. It's like very psycho.
Speaker 1: And Finn shows the headshots of the girls to him
Speaker 1: and it's like where are they? And he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: if you guys are so smart, why don't you find
Speaker 1: them yourselves, and like drops the headshots and then they
Speaker 1: start roughing him up. Then they bring in Alan Billy
Speaker 1: and Al says, tell them Billy, and he goes, no,
Speaker 1: take me back to jail.
Speaker 3: Like this kid.
Speaker 1: Billy is like fully under Stockholm syndrome, like some kind
Speaker 1: of you know, full sway of his brother. And Al's like,
Speaker 1: I tried to protect you, and Billy says, so I
Speaker 1: could grow up to be like you. Charlie's twice the
Speaker 1: man you'll ever be. And the dad looks very bummed
Speaker 1: to hear that, because that's supposed to be his nice son.
Speaker 1: And then Finn goes, yo, Billy, your brother set your
Speaker 1: ass up. All that stuff you guys stole from the murders.
Speaker 1: We found it in a storage locker in the building.
Speaker 1: And Charlie is like, shut up. Billy's zip it, like,
Speaker 1: don't say anything. And Billy's like, wait, that's not where
Speaker 1: we hid that stuff, Charlie. And they're like, he was
Speaker 1: gonna set you up. He betrayed you. And the dad says,
Speaker 1: I may not be much, but I never lied to you.
Speaker 1: I never sold you out like Charlie did. Only your
Speaker 1: boots were there, Billy, not Charlie's.
Speaker 3: And Billy is like whining, like why did you do that?
Speaker 1: And Charlie's like, be a man, And Billy starts to
Speaker 1: break down, like why did you do that. You didn't
Speaker 1: protect me. You said it was us against everyone else.
Speaker 1: And Charlie goes, don't tell them where those bitches are,
Speaker 1: and he like flies across the room hands and cuffs
Speaker 1: and attacks Billy and says, I'll rip you a part
Speaker 1: of you.
Speaker 3: Tell them.
Speaker 1: And then he confesses everything, and he says, Charlie made
Speaker 1: me kill those people, and he shot those women's boyfriends.
Speaker 1: And then he tells them what they've been wanting to hear.
Speaker 1: The women are on the roof of their building in
Speaker 1: the water tower.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So when they get to that, this
Speaker 3: is my question.
Speaker 2: Were they in the water like a pool for days
Speaker 2: in the in like cold New York weather, in water.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes water towers are empty because they're old
Speaker 1: and people don't use water towers anymore. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what. Yeah, because I have a
Speaker 1: water tower tattoo.
Speaker 2: It's part of my It's one of my favorite things
Speaker 2: about New York and New York US outside of just
Speaker 2: straight up skyline is Like I love seeing all the
Speaker 2: water towers on buildings.
Speaker 3: I think it's so pretty.
Speaker 1: But then remember when they come out, they're not soaking wet,
Speaker 1: so I don't they're like because they're freezing. I think
Speaker 1: it's just like literally empty and they're just sitting in it,
Speaker 1: like you.
Speaker 3: Even get in it?
Speaker 1: Like is there a door? A code? How do you
Speaker 1: you pop the top?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: But isn't that where they found the girl from that?
Speaker 2: That's what I was about to say, But she drowned.
Speaker 2: The hotel Seesoul girl drowned. Yeah, so there was water
Speaker 2: in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there also must be a way to get
Speaker 1: in then, like that girl got into it.
Speaker 3: You know, or was there there you never? Yeah, well,
Speaker 3: we don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't there a Chicago one like that too? Or
Speaker 2: was she found somewhere else? There was like a black
Speaker 2: woman that disappeared and is social gathering with all white peo.
Speaker 3: I mean this happens often.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there was also like a sleepover whereas all
Speaker 2: white women, one black woman and she's disappeared and no
Speaker 2: one's invested, gated the case or done anything, and like
Speaker 2: that's the weirdest fucking case. Yeah, I mean not, but
Speaker 2: it's like clearly something happened and these white women did
Speaker 2: something like the one black person is no longer alive
Speaker 2: or found or any or what.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that happened.
Speaker 2: In Chicago, there was like a party young people and
Speaker 2: the like girls were found in the water tower. I'm
Speaker 2: just it's scary because because they were blue and shivering,
Speaker 2: I definitely thought they were in water, but I think
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: Just because it was freezing out. It's winter and they're
Speaker 1: just freezing and he's kept them there. If they were
Speaker 1: in water, I feel like they would have died quicker.
Speaker 1: Like I think you would be absolutely like frozen. And
Speaker 1: also like I don't know, wouldn't wouldn't the water freeze?
Speaker 1: Maybe they empty those water towers in the winter so
Speaker 1: it doesn't free I really don't know.
Speaker 3: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: It seemed like an old water tower, but they didn't
Speaker 1: seem wet coming out either way.
Speaker 3: Horrifying.
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like they said that they were
Speaker 1: like close to death these ways. And that's that scene
Speaker 1: like is like etched in my brain, like I always
Speaker 1: remember the two girls coming out of the water tower
Speaker 1: from the show. It's from this episode, Like it's so scary.
Speaker 1: And then like one of them just like looks at
Speaker 1: Finn and Douthorn and it's like she doesn't even say anything,
Speaker 1: but she just looks like, oh, yeah, your life is
Speaker 1: going to be so fucked because this was the most
Speaker 1: traumatizing thing that's ever happened, and you're just like a
Speaker 1: junior at Barnard like ugh. Anyway, Douthorn asks Finn what's next,
Speaker 1: and then he goes go to the hospital, take their statements,
Speaker 1: get some sleep, and then it's stick Wolf and then
Speaker 1: it's goodbye Douthorn.
Speaker 3: We never see him again. Apparently he doesn't really want
Speaker 3: to know why what.
Speaker 1: Makes people freaks, because he pieces right the fuck out,
Speaker 1: Or maybe that actor got another job. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm excited for you to tell me about
Speaker 1: the real crime Lesa, because I know nothing.
Speaker 3: You're not going to be excited once we get out.
Speaker 1: Oh, why it's bad, okay, okay, yeah, of course it's bad.
Speaker 1: What did you just think about what you just told me?
Speaker 1: But I like hearing about crimes. But it's gonna be bad, okay,
Speaker 1: And it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, listen to our advertisements, and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: So this crime is called the nicknamed the Wichita massacre,
Speaker 2: and it took me days of research to finally learn
Speaker 2: how to spell wichita and massacre. I was spelling both
Speaker 2: those words just like flying off the seat in my pain.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know how to say these things.
Speaker 1: So but I did learn how to spell both.
Speaker 2: So it's two brothers like this, and listen, they are hot,
Speaker 2: like I don't know which ones, which one is like
Speaker 2: dreads one doesn't.
Speaker 3: And they are kind of good looking.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like the show, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like two good looking young men. So at
Speaker 2: the time, So their names are Reginald D. Car and
Speaker 2: Jonathan D. Car And they were twenty two and twenty
Speaker 2: at the time of the crime, so again very young.
Speaker 2: They moved from Dodge city to Wichita and quickly started
Speaker 2: committing crimes. So December two thousand, these brothers committed crimes
Speaker 2: that ended in one of the most fucked up crimes
Speaker 2: I've ever read. And we read a lot of fucked
Speaker 2: up crimes. Yeah, Like it's tough to say it because
Speaker 2: it seems like disrespectful to the other horrific cases like
Speaker 2: this one. Like it's not a competition, but this one
Speaker 2: is truly evil evil, Like like this guy who's the
Speaker 2: guy with Colleen's Cameron, he can join These guys can
Speaker 2: join Cameron Hooker and put them in a fucking shark
Speaker 2: water tank.
Speaker 3: Put them there. It's bad.
Speaker 2: So December seventh, they started. They carjacked a Wichita State
Speaker 2: University baseball player whose name is Andrew Schreiber. They approached
Speaker 2: him at gunpoint in a come and go convenience store.
Speaker 3: Did you have to know was come and go?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Did I want to say it? Of course? So why
Speaker 3: is it allowed to be called that? I hate it?
Speaker 3: I hate when I say those I know. I hate
Speaker 3: it for me. It's like, put give me merch. I
Speaker 3: don't care. Well, I used to have a lighter. I
Speaker 3: used to have a come and go lighter.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I knew that, and he was gonna
Speaker 2: he was there to get some skull. You know, he's
Speaker 2: a baseball player. He just wanted some chewing tobacco. And
Speaker 2: they made him drive around, cruising the area and stopping
Speaker 2: at ATMs withdrawing money until his card stopped taking transactions. Luckily,
Speaker 2: he got away unarmed, unharmed. They just shot out the
Speaker 2: tires of his car and kind of left him in
Speaker 2: a desolate area in town. But like he thank god,
Speaker 2: you know, is alive then, And the only thing the
Speaker 2: cops had to go on was that they were two
Speaker 2: black dudes. But to me, I'm like, was there not
Speaker 2: footage at every atm?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like ATMs are where there's cameras. Yeah, like every ATM.
Speaker 2: Oh they were, they sent him. They probably sat in
Speaker 2: the car. Yeah, that's what it was because with them, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I was like, why don't they have any footage?
Speaker 2: But they were in the car. So then December eleventh,
Speaker 2: round five thirty pm, fifty five year old cellist An
Speaker 2: Wallenta was driving to her house and she did see
Speaker 2: a light sedan was following, didn't think much of it.
Speaker 2: She then attended orchestra practice with the Wichita Symphony Orchestra,
Speaker 2: and then when she left rehearsal around nine thirty pm,
Speaker 2: the sedan reappeared and the car followed her home and
Speaker 2: one of the brothers approached her with a gun. She
Speaker 2: tried to drive away, but she was shot and she
Speaker 2: was able to give police a statement, which helped the
Speaker 2: investigation a lot, but sadly, she died shortly after on
Speaker 2: January twod two thousand and one. Her injuries were just
Speaker 2: way too intense. Her husband and children did establish the
Speaker 2: Ann will Ento Music Scholarship and Fellowship as a means
Speaker 2: to continue her music legacy and honor exceptional women. It
Speaker 2: was established in two thousand and four, and her husband
Speaker 2: Don said, year after year more students will learn to
Speaker 2: share the joy she received from music.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to touch on her.
Speaker 2: We talked so much about the killers and their pursuits,
Speaker 2: like it's nice to kind of have some information about
Speaker 2: these victims. Sadly that we lost. And she taught me
Speaker 2: music in public schools in Texas and Oklahoma, was a
Speaker 2: cello instructor at Friends University and gave private lessons, and
Speaker 2: she played in the symphony and was a group's librarian
Speaker 2: as well. For the symphony, and she just seemed like
Speaker 2: an accomplished woman. So those two crimes happened, and now
Speaker 2: December fourteenth happened. So the brothers broke into a home
Speaker 2: where five people were having a night in. They burst
Speaker 2: in with guns in hand. So who was in the house.
Speaker 2: It was a woman named hg twenty five. She brought
Speaker 2: a galpal with her to her boyfriend's house. It was
Speaker 2: a longtime boyfriend and he lived there with two men.
Speaker 2: So it was Jason and two other men. So it
Speaker 2: was five people, three of which lived in the apartment. Jason,
Speaker 2: before he was twenty six, a high school science teacher
Speaker 2: and football coach. Brad Haika twenty seven, a director of
Speaker 2: finance with Coke Financial Services. Heathere Mueller twenty five, a
Speaker 2: preschool teacher, was planning on becoming a nun, and then
Speaker 2: Aaron and that why, Jesus, just, I just it's.
Speaker 1: Like wild that you're like just having a night with
Speaker 1: my friends before I become a nun.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just interesting.
Speaker 2: You know, nuns, did you not watch Sister Act. Nuns
Speaker 2: like to have a good time too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sister Act, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone recently that was talking about
Speaker 2: Kathyen and Jimmy and how that's like one of the
Speaker 2: best comedic performances of all time and how like she
Speaker 2: was the star but like not overpowered. Like someone was
Speaker 2: talking about that performance in such a detail that I
Speaker 2: really appreciate love listening to me.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 2: I loved recently the clip went circulating where she was
Speaker 2: like protecting witches on the news when hocus Pocus it
Speaker 2: came out in nineteen ninety four. She's like, well, we
Speaker 2: don't want to stereotype witches, and it was like a
Speaker 2: really funny clip. And then we have Aaron Sander twenty nine,
Speaker 2: a former Coke employee who decided to become a priest,
Speaker 2: and HG was sitting in front of the TV and
Speaker 2: began grading papers, and then they kind of retired into
Speaker 2: separate rooms and that's when the car brothers were armed,
Speaker 2: kicked down the door and entered and nobody still to
Speaker 2: this day knows how the pair gained entrance into the triplex.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how they got into the building,
Speaker 2: but it's not hard. But I don't let men into buildings. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I remember once it was a group of black
Speaker 2: dudser are trying to get into a hotel behind me,
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, there are, and then they
Speaker 2: obviously were like you're racist, and I had to be
Speaker 2: like sure, but you're not coming in, Like I just
Speaker 2: I used to volunteer to sexual assault Response center. You
Speaker 2: don't let anyone in. You don't let anyone in, you
Speaker 2: don't tell anyone where anyone works. You need to have
Speaker 2: a key, like yeah, and it sucks, and you can
Speaker 2: say anything you want to me. I will not let
Speaker 2: a man or anyone into a building if they do
Speaker 2: not have a key. There's Seinfeld episodes against what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but like, I don't care.
Speaker 3: I don't do it. I don't do it.
Speaker 2: I'd rather seem like a bigot, like I'm not allowing
Speaker 2: someone into a building, so not that someone did this,
Speaker 2: I'm like accusing someone.
Speaker 3: In two thousand of doing something bad.
Speaker 2: But anyways, they got into the building that there were
Speaker 2: guns and golf clubs where the weapons of choice. They
Speaker 2: wrangled the friends into one room and began scouring the
Speaker 2: place for valuables. The prosecution also said that the men
Speaker 2: separated the friends and then each of the like the
Speaker 2: group feared that if they attacked one intruder, then the
Speaker 2: friends would be harmed. And so I'm not really sure
Speaker 2: if they were in one room or separated. A lot
Speaker 2: of the accounts are it could have been all of it.
Speaker 2: This was a long ordeal. Okay, Kara, you can't lick
Speaker 2: your hair like that. It's obviously hair.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, good, you were licking your hairw.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like doing a mustache.
Speaker 2: Okay, well from here it was like you were licking it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, we're gonna have to my.
Speaker 3: God, tell me more about the murder. Ah. You were
Speaker 3: truly chewing on your hair, and I'm like, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can't. My hair cannot be in my mouth at all.
Speaker 3: I've never been a hair cheer.
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry this is like such a horrific case.
Speaker 2: But the hair did distract me, and I'm sorry I
Speaker 2: went off all in that tangent about not letting people
Speaker 2: into buildings, but it is important to me. So I
Speaker 2: don't know exactly, you know where they were configured, but
Speaker 2: they were looking for valuables and then they found an
Speaker 2: engagement ring under the bed and demanded they say it
Speaker 2: who belonged?
Speaker 3: Who it belonged?
Speaker 2: To and that's how HG found out that her boyfriend
Speaker 2: was going to propose to her. Oh my god, and
Speaker 2: he said he was going to do it on like Christmas.
Speaker 2: So they found the engagement ring and they're like tied
Speaker 2: up in this horrific situation.
Speaker 3: It's bad.
Speaker 2: The brothers then took three of the people with debit
Speaker 2: cards to ATMs one by one in a car, maxing
Speaker 2: out their cash withdrawals. By midnight one am ish, they
Speaker 2: withdrew sixteen hundred dollars and then the true horror began.
Speaker 2: So once they came back to the apartment, they forced
Speaker 2: them to strip naked and perform sex sex on one
Speaker 2: another in a twisted orgy. Then they raped the women
Speaker 2: while they beat the men with golf clubs, and then
Speaker 2: made them and made them watch as they raped the women,
Speaker 2: and then forced them all to perform acts on one
Speaker 2: another with gunpointed at them.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. And this was for more than an hour.
Speaker 2: And then they stuffed three men into a trunk of
Speaker 2: Sanders car and that is one of the people in
Speaker 2: the apartment. And then, according to testimony, one brother drove
Speaker 2: with Mueller sitting in the passenger seat while the other
Speaker 2: brother took HG with him in Bethfort's silver Dodge pickup.
Speaker 2: So they took two cars and they drove all five
Speaker 2: victims still naked, to a snowy soccer field, then shot
Speaker 2: them all in the head execution style. So they made
Speaker 2: them all Neil shot them. One woman wildly survived. If
Speaker 2: you were wondering why I was not saying someone's full
Speaker 2: name is to protect her identity.
Speaker 3: She did survive.
Speaker 1: Her hair clip deflected the bullet. Wow.
Speaker 2: But then these psychopaths ran over the body is in
Speaker 2: a pickup truck.
Speaker 3: She still survived.
Speaker 2: Then, naked and barefoot, ran for over a mile through
Speaker 2: snow and barbed wire to seek help. While she's like
Speaker 2: running to save her life. The brothers then returned to
Speaker 2: the house and ransacked it for more valuables, and then
Speaker 2: they beat the dog to death with a golf club
Speaker 2: and shot it. Oh my gods, And not that this
Speaker 2: fully matters, it is really sad, but it was like
Speaker 2: the surviving woman's dog, so it's like.
Speaker 3: God. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So while she was running, she started pounding on a
Speaker 2: door of a couple and when they opened the door,
Speaker 2: they saw a naked woman bleeding from the head and
Speaker 2: sub zero temperature, so they did let her in. She said,
Speaker 2: let me tell you my story before I die. So
Speaker 2: she did a testimony to them, like a living testimony,
Speaker 2: and she was crying. The homicide detective Ken Launder of
Speaker 2: the Wichita Police Department said to the Laurence Journal World
Speaker 2: that he could not thank the survivor enough for starting
Speaker 2: police in the right direction. But then he said something
Speaker 2: I hated. He said, this should not happen in Wichita.
Speaker 2: That scene was a war rather than anything else. It
Speaker 2: belonged in Bosnia. And it's like, it doesn't belong in
Speaker 2: Bosnia either. And that's and that's a that's a that's
Speaker 2: a detective like that is working with victims. It's like,
Speaker 2: these guys are so dense and fucked like you think
Speaker 2: it belongs anywhere else.
Speaker 3: It's just so kind of twisted now if you want
Speaker 3: to be really mad.
Speaker 2: Reginald should have been in prison at the time of
Speaker 2: these murders, but was released early because of math mistakes
Speaker 2: made by two parole officers.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: One day later, a police task force brought the brothers in.
Speaker 2: When they were arrested, Reginald had Heather Mueller's watch in
Speaker 2: his pocket, along with Jason beth For's credit card and
Speaker 2: nearly one thousand dollars in his pockets. Jonathan Carr's leather
Speaker 2: jacket was found with the diamond ring with the engagement ring.
Speaker 2: HG was in the hospital and was able to identify
Speaker 2: Reginald as one of her attackers. The brothers accused the
Speaker 2: other of carrying out the crimes. Obviously, the lawyers mostly
Speaker 2: just pointed fingers at each other since the evidence was overwhelming.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's witness testimony and physical evidence that the
Speaker 2: places the brothers on the scene, so there wasn't really
Speaker 2: much to go on except blaming one another. Jury selections
Speaker 2: started on September ninth, two thousand and two, and the
Speaker 2: trial began October seventh, two thousand and two, which was
Speaker 2: the longest jury selection process in the county's history, and Monday,
Speaker 2: November fourth, the jury obviously came back with a guilty verdict.
Speaker 2: Throughout the trial, Reginald was kept in shackles because he
Speaker 2: threatened deputies. The brothers are charged and convicted on more
Speaker 2: than one hundred counts after a three week trial. Reginald
Speaker 2: had additional charges in the robbery and abduction of Andrew
Speaker 2: Schreiber because Jonathan was found innocent in these crimes against Schreiber.
Speaker 3: There was just no evidence connecting him.
Speaker 2: They just couldn't connect him to that crime, even though
Speaker 2: the same gun was used in all three crimes. But
Speaker 2: Andrew's watch was found in Reginald's apartment, and they couldn't
Speaker 2: really tie Jonathan to that crime with couldn't.
Speaker 3: Andrew say, yeah, I wonder why anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they had him on plenty, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's jury's I don't know. During closing arguments, each of
Speaker 1: the lawyers blamed the other brother for the crimes. Jonathan's
Speaker 1: attorney said Jonathan was innocent of some of the crimes
Speaker 1: and Reginald was the leader in the quadruple murder, and
Speaker 1: Reginald's attorney contended that most of the DNA evidence pointed
Speaker 1: to his brother. The brothers did not show any emotion
Speaker 1: when the verdicts were read, although Reginald shook his head
Speaker 1: as he was convicted of criminal sodomy so that embarrassed
Speaker 1: him Jesus nothing else, and as he was taken away,
Speaker 1: he stared at the family members of the victims, while
Speaker 1: Jonathan avoided making eye contact with them. Before sentencing, it's
Speaker 1: it's typical, but it's before sentencing. The mother of the
Speaker 1: brothers pled with the pleated, pleaded with the jurors to
Speaker 1: spare the men's lives, saying her children are good and
Speaker 1: that what they did two years ago was a horrible mistake.
Speaker 3: And it's like, honey, read the room, what are you
Speaker 3: talking about.
Speaker 2: Why don't you go tell your priests that, tell your
Speaker 2: sister you do not go to the fucking victims family
Speaker 2: and say that they're good boys and their murders were
Speaker 2: a mistake. That's like so fucked to me. But I
Speaker 2: guess that's what you do if you're a parent, like
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I guess she was just kind of like, obviously, lock
Speaker 1: them up, but don't kill them.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't believe in death penalties, so yeah,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: But I also wonder if this made it worse for
Speaker 2: the brothers, Like if I was on the jury, I
Speaker 2: would be like, go fuck yourself. Janice Harding, the mother said,
Speaker 2: I know other families out there probably hating me to death.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for them, but spare my children. I love
Speaker 2: them just as much as you would love your children.
Speaker 2: I believe there is good in them, there's just something
Speaker 2: that went wrong along the way. She then turned to them,
Speaker 2: I don't know what went wrong, but I love you.
Speaker 2: I love you both, and I'm sorry for everything that happened.
Speaker 2: If I did something wrong, I'm sorry. I would just
Speaker 2: like to say I'm sorry to everybody. I know this
Speaker 2: is my fault. I'm just so sorry.
Speaker 3: Wow. The attorneys asked.
Speaker 2: Jurors to show their clients mercy and blame the brother's
Speaker 2: troubled childhood and dysfunctional family for their problems.
Speaker 3: And I'll touch on this later.
Speaker 2: And it's not like it's a competition, but I was
Speaker 2: trying to find like, what happened to them? Is it
Speaker 2: not stalker? Is it Richard Ramirez? Like what was going on?
Speaker 2: And I don't know, not that it excuses the crimes,
Speaker 2: but it was very much like the parents got divorced
Speaker 2: into drugs.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't murder after that.
Speaker 2: It's just like I was expecting very horrific things to
Speaker 2: be read like that. I was going to read about
Speaker 2: these two brothers to kind of put it together, because
Speaker 2: even with Richard Ramirez, when I think about it, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: how else were you gonna turn out?
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: He said that Reginald was brain damaged from the things
Speaker 2: that happened to him in childhood, and to think of
Speaker 2: his three children, and it's like, well, they could have
Speaker 2: thought of their own kids.
Speaker 3: How about that.
Speaker 2: Nola Felston, the DA was like, I'm sorry, there is
Speaker 2: no excuse for an individual's conduct. You can't blame your
Speaker 2: family for what went wrong in your life, and she
Speaker 2: read that. After the verdict was read, the other defense
Speaker 2: lawyer said that Jonathan didn't have any issues with the
Speaker 2: law before the spree and that there is still good
Speaker 2: in him.
Speaker 3: Jonathan was troubled.
Speaker 2: He tried to take his own life when he was
Speaker 2: seven and then again at sixteen, so obviously something.
Speaker 3: Was going on with him. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: You know, like I said, it was a dysfunctional family.
Speaker 2: They fought, they drank, and they drugged in front of
Speaker 2: the kids. And I'm not here to like diminish what
Speaker 2: that what those effects are on people and the future.
Speaker 2: It's just like the heinous nature of this crime. I
Speaker 2: really thought, I was, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if he I mean, honestly, if the older brother
Speaker 1: had brain damage, it's like sometimes I think with head injuries,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you don't even have an idea of
Speaker 1: what is right and wrong and what is bad.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it seems like the young the younger
Speaker 1: one could have just been like I was following my brother.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like making sense of the truly senseless.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He also said that he felt bad for his client,
Speaker 2: this defense attorney, because he liked him. He goes, that's
Speaker 2: the truth. I like him, and it's like, okay, bro, wow.
Speaker 2: Reginald's lawyer had a great line. He said, I asked
Speaker 2: I asked you to extend mercy to Reginald Carr that
Speaker 2: he did not extend to those four young individuals. The
Speaker 2: DA Nola Falsten, was like, sentence them to death. I
Speaker 2: don't give a fuck. She goes, we know from the
Speaker 2: evidence they committed these crimes because they wanted to, and
Speaker 2: because they chose to. She said, they did not want
Speaker 2: to leave any person behind to say what cruel, heinous
Speaker 2: shit they did, and that was on purpose. Wonder told reporters,
Speaker 2: according to CBS News, that the pictures he saw the
Speaker 2: four bodies in the field will never leave his mind,
Speaker 2: and it makes that person look at life in a
Speaker 2: different perspective.
Speaker 3: Whow they were.
Speaker 2: Sentenced to death on November fifteenth, but you know how
Speaker 2: that goes. It's appeals and pauses, and then actually just
Speaker 2: this past year, the death penalty is back on with
Speaker 2: these brothers, and we're talking twenty years.
Speaker 3: I mean, what is the point of death sentences? I
Speaker 3: really don't get it.
Speaker 2: So in twenty fourteen, the convictions were held up, but
Speaker 2: the court overturned their death sentences, concluding that not having
Speaker 2: separate hearings violated the US Constitution. The US Supreme Court, though,
Speaker 2: reversed that decision in twenty sixteen and returned the case
Speaker 2: back to the Kansas court. January twenty twenty two, the
Speaker 2: Kansas Supreme Court stopped the pause and said death penalty
Speaker 2: is back on. What these brothers tried to do is
Speaker 2: argue that if the States Constitution protects abortion rights, it
Speaker 2: also protects their right to life. What their argument was
Speaker 2: centered on capital murder being unconstitutional and infringing on their
Speaker 2: right to life.
Speaker 3: Their argument was rejected.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a bad argument, but I disagree
Speaker 1: with the death penalty, so.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: And it was found that the brothers had fair Trials.
Speaker 2: Attorney General Derek Schmidt described the decision as an important
Speaker 2: milestone and signaled that the brothers are running out of
Speaker 2: appeal options. So throughout, like looking for information on this
Speaker 2: case was really hard. It took me a while and
Speaker 2: like a lot of days of digging, And a big
Speaker 2: part of that is because the judge, Rebecca Pilshaw, enacted
Speaker 2: a gag order to the witnesses, said the less that
Speaker 2: is said about these things, the better, ob for all
Speaker 2: parties involved. A lot of the media and residents were
Speaker 2: opposed to these efforts to suppress the facts of this case.
Speaker 2: Because of this, it has caused kind of a virtual
Speaker 2: media blackout. The website where it said that was called
Speaker 2: Forgotten Victims dot com.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it's credible or if it's
Speaker 3: like one of.
Speaker 2: These people's family, but it yeah, a virtual media blackout.
Speaker 2: I think it was probably to protect the surviving witnesses
Speaker 2: Shreiburn HG. But maybe it was like for Kansas's reputation.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure. I'm not sure because this is
Speaker 2: such a horrific crime. I mean, it's nicknamed a massacre,
Speaker 2: like where is it? Like it is confusing and then
Speaker 2: a part of me is like, is it because they're
Speaker 2: black dudes?
Speaker 1: Like that?
Speaker 3: No one, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Also, a lot of people think that they have had
Speaker 2: hate crimes added to it since all their victims were white,
Speaker 2: but no evidence was found of hate crime, and so
Speaker 2: that was kind of a controversial thing at the time
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: But like, they were found guilty on hundreds of charges, Like,
Speaker 1: don't they get found guilty on the cello players murder too?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I'm gonna cover maybe not, okay, yeah, yes, absolutely,
Speaker 2: because she also was able to give her testimony before
Speaker 2: she died. So the brothers are now an administrative segregation
Speaker 2: at the El Dorado Facility, which means they're kept in
Speaker 2: a cell twenty three hours a day and only get
Speaker 2: one hour for exercise.
Speaker 3: In a secure pen.
Speaker 2: In an article from twenty fourteen in the Topeka Capital Journal,
Speaker 2: said that Reginald had eleven disciplinary violations and Jonathan had
Speaker 2: twenty three since they entered the prison system in November
Speaker 2: of two thousand and two. So to me, it's like
Speaker 2: the idea that one brother is good and the other
Speaker 2: is bad is nulled with this too, since they're causing
Speaker 2: all this chaos in the prison.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're in jail for twenty three hours a day with
Speaker 1: by yourself, with that's like how you treat it, Like
Speaker 1: I want to say, like an animal, But I don't
Speaker 1: even think people treat animals that way. I mean, like
Speaker 1: that's a disgusting way to treat people, and even people
Speaker 1: who've committed heinous crimes and so, like I who knows
Speaker 1: what their violations are. They're probably they have no idea
Speaker 1: how to interact in the real world.
Speaker 2: But my thing is, if you're against the death penalty
Speaker 2: and against this kind of custody, where do people that
Speaker 2: commit such heinous crimes like this, Like what what do
Speaker 2: they get?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I know, it's a great question.
Speaker 2: I just don't think like solitary is the move like
Speaker 2: I thought we'd like to sell, Like there's all these
Speaker 2: documentaries about how solitary Like, yes, and it fits people
Speaker 2: up even more, it fucks people up, and it's not
Speaker 2: okay if someone's gonna eventually get out or our goal
Speaker 2: is rehabilitation or anything like that. But if you're in
Speaker 2: for life, what do you do with these people that
Speaker 2: can't be trusted?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know the answer to that, but y, yeah,
Speaker 1: like what is like, what are you know? We can't
Speaker 1: all stay at OZ, Like what.
Speaker 3: You know, I've never seen OZ, so I don't really
Speaker 3: know what.
Speaker 1: Oh like like it's like they're all clear pods, like
Speaker 1: clear doors.
Speaker 2: And they all get to hang out. It's general pop
Speaker 2: like it's an experimental prison. So they all get to
Speaker 2: hang out and play basketball and they're all the doors
Speaker 2: are glass and they get to just like kind of
Speaker 2: wander around.
Speaker 3: Wow, I didn't even know that.
Speaker 1: We talked about OZ so much on this podcast and
Speaker 1: we've like never I've never just gotten the general gist
Speaker 1: of OZ.
Speaker 3: I thought it was just like a prison show. It
Speaker 3: was like a fun little pod show.
Speaker 1: But it was like Love is Blind before Love Is Blind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I heard the season of Love it Is
Speaker 2: Blind is so I don't think I can watch it.
Speaker 3: I heard it's like really fucked.
Speaker 2: I heard it's just people with obvious issues forcing things
Speaker 2: and a lot of red flags, a lot of just
Speaker 2: like dangerous oh no vibes for people. And I think
Speaker 2: the first season was great like most reality TV.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Downhill.
Speaker 1: So I don't but I don't know like, I just
Speaker 1: I don't know if like, did we ever like the
Speaker 1: one boy, this was his first ever crimes, like, or
Speaker 1: do we know that he's completely unreal even though this
Speaker 1: is a heinous crime.
Speaker 3: Do we know he's beyond rehabilitation?
Speaker 1: But if they're not going to leave prison, do we
Speaker 1: need to really rehabilitate people.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Then it's like we're not treating people like people like
Speaker 1: you can still live inside of prison, if like we're
Speaker 1: going to keep you in prison for twenty plus years,
Speaker 1: twenty three hours a day by yourself.
Speaker 2: Listen, there's a non character in oz and you sound
Speaker 2: a lot like her.
Speaker 1: Okay, and do you know who plays her? I think
Speaker 1: it's Rita Moreno, hold on, oh I love her?
Speaker 3: Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: Good? No?
Speaker 2: And you know, I feel like I'm also against the
Speaker 2: death penalty, but I'm like, kill these motherfuckers in the
Speaker 2: most tainous way possible.
Speaker 3: I don't give a fuck. It's like tough.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm not really, But then it's like, fine,
Speaker 2: we won't kill them, but then what they get to
Speaker 2: play par cheesy in jail with their friends.
Speaker 1: I don't like that either. No, Like I think they
Speaker 1: should suffer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Most of the violations, though, were for possessing sexually
Speaker 2: explicit material, which I think should be allowed.
Speaker 3: That's just me, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm like, when you see twenty three violations versus eleven, like,
Speaker 1: what are they four? Talking back to an officer, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like some of them, you know, might just be bullshit.
Speaker 1: So that's like, that's all I was trying to say
Speaker 1: about that specific thing.
Speaker 2: But for sure, But to me, I'm like, Okay, can
Speaker 2: you let them look at porn?
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, what they have? Nothing?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Let them at least get their jollies off? Okay.
Speaker 1: So and then so you think they shouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to play part cheesy, but they should be able to
Speaker 1: jerk off with graphic porn. Yes, with full on piss porn, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: at least a picture.
Speaker 3: They can't get a playboy. I don't know.
Speaker 2: And I don't think you're allowed to even jerk off
Speaker 2: in prison, Like I think you get in trouble for
Speaker 2: that too. Really, I think I don't I could have
Speaker 2: made that up, but I feel like that might be
Speaker 2: a thing that they try to do. So anyways, and
Speaker 2: of course, these men are on dating sites for death
Speaker 2: row people and law unfortunate expert. We've talked about this
Speaker 2: a lot, but we didn't find the I don't know
Speaker 2: if we've ever talked about the reasons or like how
Speaker 2: this all works and stuff. So I just have like
Speaker 2: a little bit about that. So law enforcement experts say,
Speaker 2: you know, these postings actually get like large responses, like
Speaker 2: we know, and what I love is Reginald said he's
Speaker 2: looking for an intelligent career woman with an open mind
Speaker 2: and a big heart.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And this personal ad.
Speaker 2: Site is run by a Canadian coalition against the death penalty.
Speaker 2: And this is from the Lawrence Journal World two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven. It was hard to find shit. Oh the
Speaker 2: fucking Wichita Eagle. Let me tell you about this. So
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get articles in the Witchita Eagle. It
Speaker 2: won't let me in, so I pay. I'm like, fine,
Speaker 2: I'll pay. Then I try to get back in. They
Speaker 2: won't let me in because it takes two days for
Speaker 2: the subscription to go through. And I said, but I
Speaker 2: an article now, and they were like, nah, bitch. And
Speaker 2: so today is when I was allowed to look at it.
Speaker 2: I didn't have time, and then I have to now
Speaker 2: start calling trying to cancel my Wichita Eagles.
Speaker 3: Good luck girl.
Speaker 1: You're paying for that Wichita Eagle subscription until you're dead.
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm like, how do you? And I
Speaker 2: told him, like, this is a fucking scam. IDM them.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you cannot tell me.
Speaker 1: You tell me I should sign up to read an article,
Speaker 1: and I do it, and then I have to wait
Speaker 1: a grace.
Speaker 3: Period what I can.
Speaker 1: But I can buy a gun, but I can't look
Speaker 1: at this article from two thousand and five. O them
Speaker 1: goes through for a dollar. The introductory rate is a
Speaker 1: dollar a month. Fuck the Eagle. So that's why I'm
Speaker 1: at Lawrence Journal World, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: this guy also says that he enjoys reading, drawing, writing,
Speaker 1: reading poetry, working out, and conversing about politics.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I think you forgot rape and murder.
Speaker 2: But okay, but he was popular. I told you he was.
Speaker 2: Fuck they're fucking hot. And so he got nudes and
Speaker 2: cards and lots of stuff. So a US Department of
Speaker 2: Justice studies show that two thirds of the inmates who
Speaker 2: post ads will accurately describe their conditions and their crimes,
Speaker 2: but violent offenders convicted of murder and rape are most
Speaker 2: likely to lie. Sheila Eisenberg, author of the book Women
Speaker 2: Who Marry Men Who Kill.
Speaker 1: Sage We recommend it as of what would Sister peg do?
Speaker 1: Did episodes ago?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? So do we already talk about this?
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: So she says that many women who answer the ads
Speaker 2: find safety in a man who is locked away and
Speaker 2: can't hurt her, oh, and is in control of the relationship,
Speaker 2: unlike in the past when they were abused. But she goes,
Speaker 2: this is not love though, This is not love. This
Speaker 2: is like about control and games and trauma. And also
Speaker 2: if all of this is interesting to you, you can
Speaker 2: order an eighty page copy of the Wichita massacre survivor's
Speaker 2: pre trial testimony. Wow, I did not do that. If
Speaker 2: you'd like to, I just thought I would share that
Speaker 2: that is an option out there on the internet. I
Speaker 2: always don't like when it's too much about the killers
Speaker 2: and not the victims, and I was lucky to find
Speaker 2: some information about the young people that were killed. Heather's
Speaker 2: Camp was created in Heather Mueller's honor, and it serves
Speaker 2: kids who are blind, are visually impaired, and even at
Speaker 2: the twenty year anniversary, over passing her friends and family
Speaker 2: honored her with a fundraiser at her favorite restaurant in town.
Speaker 2: Kansas State University set up the Brad Haika Memorial Golf
Speaker 2: Tournament and scholarships. He really loved golf, k State football
Speaker 2: and hisk Fratt Brothers. He was never one to turn
Speaker 2: down a good time, but still pulled great grades, said
Speaker 2: his mother, Liz, So he liked to party. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's the one becoming a priest. Jason Beckford, who
Speaker 2: also loved golf, There was a memorial golf tournament for
Speaker 2: him as well, and last year, August twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: was the last one. Jason was a Halloween baby born
Speaker 2: October thirty first, and he was an athlete in a frat,
Speaker 2: was a teacher, coach, and was a very dedicated and
Speaker 2: compassionate friend. I was unable to find any information about
Speaker 2: Aaron Sander, and the privacy of the surviving victim has
Speaker 2: really been honored, and I hope she's able to work
Speaker 2: through her trauma. But I did find something. Don't look,
Speaker 2: I want to tell you. Mental Floss said that Andrew
Speaker 2: Schreiber became friendly with HG during the trial and they
Speaker 2: became friendly and actually married in two thousand and four.
Speaker 3: And yes, and that has.
Speaker 1: Been confirmed through its a few different sites I found
Speaker 1: and I did do digging in social media and stuff.
Speaker 2: I want to protect everyone's privacy. But the survivor from
Speaker 2: the carjacking and HG did marry.
Speaker 3: That's kind of nice.
Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like it would be like a reminder,
Speaker 1: but it's also like one of the only people could understand,
Speaker 1: like the terror that you went through.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's like a kind of nice end to
Speaker 2: a horrific crime. And if you want more information, I'm
Speaker 2: a member of the Wichita Eagle now so I can
Speaker 2: put some more articles up for you.
Speaker 1: We'll be linking to the Witchita Eagle. Amazing, Lisa, thank
Speaker 1: you for doing that research. That does sound like a
Speaker 1: really really awful crime.
Speaker 3: And the driving over.
Speaker 2: It's just the excessiveness, not that any crime is not.
Speaker 2: It's like what the fuck, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because it's like, yeah, I guess I don't know, but
Speaker 1: to me, that's like that's like there's a sociopathy there
Speaker 1: of like they didn't think about these people as people
Speaker 1: or whatever. They were just like, yeah, we're just here
Speaker 1: to play with you and then kill you, you know, so
Speaker 1: something's going on deeper with them.
Speaker 2: And like we always say, thank God, we have a
Speaker 2: fucking great guest. We've been waiting for this guest since
Speaker 2: probably the start of this podcast, so buckle up.
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, our guest today, Svu Royalty. We have been
Speaker 1: wanting to get this person since the moment we started
Speaker 1: this podcast.
Speaker 3: She's an actor.
Speaker 1: She's worked in pr and most importantly, from two thousand
Speaker 1: and three to twenty eleven, she portrayed the one and
Speaker 1: only CSU Captain Judith Ciper. Guys, enjoy our convo with
Speaker 1: the Queen Karen Browning.
Speaker 3: Karen, this is a very long time in the making.
Speaker 5: I feel, oh, it's first of all, we just don't
Speaker 5: we have to start with saying, oh my gosh to
Speaker 5: my my niece Beth, because I think she's the one
Speaker 5: who got this all together, didn't.
Speaker 1: She Yes, And we just met her in person, I
Speaker 1: think in Raleigh where she lives.
Speaker 5: Yep, she sent me a photograph you all looked really bitch,
Speaker 5: and it was awesome, amazing.
Speaker 3: She is one of the reasons that we have you.
Speaker 1: I feel like because she has a meeting from the
Speaker 1: beginning been like, you got to get my aunt on
Speaker 1: and we're like, we.
Speaker 3: Would die to have her. So here we are.
Speaker 1: We were waiting for the perfect episode, and I feel
Speaker 1: like we kind of got it because this is your
Speaker 1: first episode as Detective Judas Cipher, but not your first
Speaker 1: SVU episode, correct, because you played other you played a
Speaker 1: Law and Order character and then an SVU character before
Speaker 1: you became this character.
Speaker 4: That's correct.
Speaker 5: Yes, I've had a storied past with these wonderful people.
Speaker 1: So so how did that work out? You just you
Speaker 1: just like auditioned and did a Law and Order and
Speaker 1: then you did and then to get this part. Did
Speaker 1: they just say, hey, we have this part we have
Speaker 1: in mind for you, or did you audition to get
Speaker 1: the Judith part even after you'd already done a part
Speaker 1: on S for you?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 5: I love telling this story and it's you know, when
Speaker 5: I was just you know, I was in New York
Speaker 5: in the heyday of my you know, acting experience. Everybody
Speaker 5: was wanted to be on Law and Order, any kind
Speaker 5: of Law and Order whatever it was, right, and they said,
Speaker 5: you know, you have to audition like five times or
Speaker 5: six times before they'll call you back or whatever. So
Speaker 5: I had gone in a few times and I went
Speaker 5: in and you know, you go down to Chelsea Peers
Speaker 5: and you get like your whole day becomes about getting
Speaker 5: your hair right and makeup and everything and your feelings
Speaker 5: all in the right place, you know, right. So I
Speaker 5: had done that, and it was it was Ted Kotcheff
Speaker 5: who was in my audition, and he just seemed to
Speaker 5: be like, you got it, you got it, and he
Speaker 5: kept encouraging me, and I was, you know, I was thinking, oh,
Speaker 5: this can't be true.
Speaker 4: No one is encouraging me. That's not right.
Speaker 5: So they ended up bringing me in to do a
Speaker 5: law and order, which was I think is one of Marishka's.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to remember it now exactly what happened. Was
Speaker 5: it a regular law and order there? I think it
Speaker 5: was a regular law and order where I was in
Speaker 5: the courtroom and something horrible had happened to my cop husband.
Speaker 4: And the Ted told me later.
Speaker 5: That it was just I had like zero lines, hardly
Speaker 5: any lines of a couple of small scenes in the beginning,
Speaker 5: and he said, you.
Speaker 4: Know, it was your eyes. I could tell you were.
Speaker 5: Listening by just watching your eyes when you're in the
Speaker 5: courtroom and they're talking about your husband. So that's how
Speaker 5: I kind of got started with the first Law and
Speaker 5: Order episode, and then.
Speaker 4: They brought me on.
Speaker 5: I guess it was for this episode or I was
Speaker 5: thinking it was Uncivilized, but I can't remember now which
Speaker 5: episode it was. So you guys probably the true fact
Speaker 5: people that you are.
Speaker 4: I'm sure you might know it, but I think so.
Speaker 1: I think that's what I was because I was just
Speaker 1: looking up your whole history yesterday. But yeah, you on SVU,
Speaker 1: your Law and Order was called Burn Baby Burn, and
Speaker 1: then your SVU, well you did two svus. Actually, it
Speaker 1: looks like you did one called Mercy and one called Uncivilized.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's part of the story of Judith Ciper too,
Speaker 5: because here's how that here's what is part of that story.
Speaker 5: When they were writing this role, they didn't have the
Speaker 5: character Judith Ciper created yet. So in my past, I mean,
Speaker 5: my day jobs working in the theater in New York
Speaker 5: always had to do with healthcare. I somehow got jobs
Speaker 5: working in pr in healthcare, which is what I still
Speaker 5: do actually, and so consequently I was able to say
Speaker 5: really technical healthcare language. So this was that episode where
Speaker 5: the first I can't remember if this was the first
Speaker 5: episode where they brought body parts in a styrofoam ice.
Speaker 4: Cooler or something.
Speaker 3: This is the Tay Sacs episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, yeah, so that one they called her doctor.
Speaker 4: I forget what they.
Speaker 3: Called Sheila something.
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, Hila Johnson or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sheila queen, Sheila queen, a queen that sounds like
Speaker 1: us drag name.
Speaker 5: I love that, right, and I could be only if only,
Speaker 5: if only it was a drag name. Anyway, that show,
Speaker 5: I think got me into the next role in the
Speaker 5: next occurrence. And then after the first few episodes went well,
Speaker 5: they kept me as Judith Ciper and I just called
Speaker 5: myself Captain Judy.
Speaker 1: Well, it's amazing because we talked to Ruby Morales Joel
Speaker 1: Delafuente and he was saying, how learning the language and
Speaker 1: the technical stuff while walking and talking is kind of
Speaker 1: hard to memorize all of that, And it's so cool
Speaker 1: you kind of had the language and the shorthand already.
Speaker 5: Right, you are so right, But it is that is
Speaker 5: the you know people used to People still say to me, oh.
Speaker 4: My gosh, that's such an interesting character. What do you do?
Speaker 4: How do you do it?
Speaker 5: And I'm always like, honey, all I am trying to
Speaker 5: do is remember what I'm supposed to say and be
Speaker 5: in the right place at the right moment and look
Speaker 5: at the right thing.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: That's that's that gives you kind of a The seriousness
Speaker 5: I think that Cipher has on camera really honestly comes
Speaker 5: from just trying not to screw up.
Speaker 2: But interesting, you meant, yeah, I think Kara's about to
Speaker 2: say the same thing. It's it's weird you mentioned the
Speaker 2: serious because she's kind of funny.
Speaker 1: Yesna say the exact same thing. I was like, it's
Speaker 1: funny that you say that because they have had a
Speaker 1: couple of people on the show at I won't name
Speaker 1: names because I can't remember the names because they've had
Speaker 1: people on for like one episode that'll be like the
Speaker 1: retraction of the DNA was like and they just kind
Speaker 1: of read it all very robotic, and you know, you
Speaker 1: don't really get.
Speaker 3: A sense of them at all. You're just like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's a lab coat person.
Speaker 1: And I do feel like your character kind of the
Speaker 1: reason why you had staying power is because you had
Speaker 1: like a lightness to you, or you'd or you'd be
Speaker 1: kind of like, I don't know, I've always felt like
Speaker 1: you were joking with the cops too, Like.
Speaker 4: I love you for saying that.
Speaker 5: You just made my day. It's maybe who I am
Speaker 5: a little bit. I don't know, but that's kind of
Speaker 5: how I survived. It's so it happened so fast, and
Speaker 5: there's so much on the line for everybody. I mean,
Speaker 5: the you know, these productions cost a lot of money
Speaker 5: to make and they can't get behind schedule. So if
Speaker 5: you come in and you have to do eight takes
Speaker 5: of your four line scene, you're going to be in bit. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, big trouble. So I tried to get it done.
Speaker 5: And I will say this, you know, you can't say
Speaker 5: enough good about this group of people. I will always
Speaker 5: be grateful for the experience because there was you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know if Beth told you, but in two
Speaker 5: thousand and three, I had a stroke. I was forty
Speaker 5: five years old and you know, very healthy, really, you know,
Speaker 5: in good shape, working out all the time. And I
Speaker 5: had a stroke and I was hospitalized for a couple months,
Speaker 5: and these people sent me flowers, They kept in touch.
Speaker 5: They even came to the hospital to do adr you know,
Speaker 5: voiceover work after so that they could get the episodes
Speaker 5: pulled together.
Speaker 4: They were just so amazing.
Speaker 5: And then of course when I got finished and I
Speaker 5: was like, I'll never go to work again. You know,
Speaker 5: they had me back on the show, so they were
Speaker 5: very supportive and so I don't know, I lost track
Speaker 5: of what I was saying there about that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Now, that's so cool because they could have just been like,
Speaker 1: all right, we need to find someone else to play
Speaker 1: this character, because that was towards the beginning two thousand
Speaker 1: and three was towards the beginning of your ten year
Speaker 1: old show, so all ly been doing it.
Speaker 5: So it's you know, I think the bottom line there
Speaker 5: is they're really human beings and there's a lot on
Speaker 5: the line for them, and everybody were really hard.
Speaker 4: Together, you know.
Speaker 5: The I guess of all the people on the show,
Speaker 5: I've always wanted to sort of give a big shout
Speaker 5: out to Iced Tea because he would say weirt, I.
Speaker 4: Love you for that.
Speaker 5: He was the one who kept me grounded because I was,
Speaker 5: you know, incredibly nervous, but he would just say, you know,
Speaker 5: he would just say something. I don't even know if
Speaker 5: I can even remember. One episode I liked to talk
Speaker 5: about with my pals is I was down in some
Speaker 5: you know, entrance to some apartment building, coming up steps
Speaker 5: like metal steps, and I had to walk to the
Speaker 5: corner and say to Chris Maloney, we'll check the luds.
Speaker 5: We'll just take this phone and check the luds or something.
Speaker 5: That's all I had to say. It was like nothing,
Speaker 5: but I'm walking up the steps and the the other
Speaker 5: people had just had a shot that was like all
Speaker 5: the way from all the way down the street up
Speaker 5: to me.
Speaker 4: And then it was my part.
Speaker 5: So I had two seconds, but I had to be
Speaker 5: perfect with it. And when I came up there there
Speaker 5: was We had to do a couple takes of this
Speaker 5: last part with my line, and I think Chris was talking,
Speaker 5: was on a phone or something, and he didn't put
Speaker 5: the phone down, and he didn't put the phone down,
Speaker 5: and he didn't put the phone down. I was like,
Speaker 5: I have to be I have to speak now. And
Speaker 5: then of course at the right moment he takes the
Speaker 5: phone down and there.
Speaker 4: He is one hundred percent. You know, that's no. He
Speaker 4: was just kind of amazing and always there.
Speaker 3: They're always there amazing.
Speaker 2: Do you have any funny like stories or memories that
Speaker 2: you think our listeners and we would, you know, be
Speaker 2: excited to hear about the main cast. Any yeah, any
Speaker 2: cute moments, silly moments.
Speaker 5: I like being in the bathroom with Richard Belzer. You
Speaker 5: know Belzer has he has his own dry personality, so
Speaker 5: that was kind of fun. Again my heart was thumping.
Speaker 5: And therey where we did a bathroom scene checking around
Speaker 5: the back the toilet.
Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't get.
Speaker 5: Much better than that, really, And also being in the
Speaker 5: dressing room the makeup room with people like Christine Baranski
Speaker 5: and you know, all these amazing actresses that you admire
Speaker 5: so much.
Speaker 4: I always enjoyed doing that.
Speaker 5: And the people who work on the show, actually, the
Speaker 5: the the hair dressers and the makeup folks, they're just
Speaker 5: they're so reassuring and so real.
Speaker 4: I always just really.
Speaker 2: Love woll And They have the best gossip hair and
Speaker 2: makeups where you want to be.
Speaker 5: Yes, now, I am not a huge gossip person, but
Speaker 5: I will say that I still use Laura Mercy.
Speaker 4: Is it Mercy or Mercier or ye Mercy, yeah, Mercier.
Speaker 5: I still use tinted moisturizer, which the people in that
Speaker 5: makeup room gave to me and I will never not
Speaker 5: use it.
Speaker 3: I use it too. All become so funny.
Speaker 2: I use nars and the makeup girl on the show
Speaker 2: I'm on right now said you got to switch to
Speaker 2: Laura Mercier like legit this week.
Speaker 3: That's what I was told. I can't believe it.
Speaker 4: It's amazing and you great, thank you.
Speaker 1: I stayed out kind of late yesterday, so her saying that,
Speaker 1: did you and Tamaratuny Melinda Warner of her cross Paths,
Speaker 1: I feel like you guys sort of fulfill a similar
Speaker 1: role in the show. And I wonder if they, like,
Speaker 1: never really had you on together, but did they have.
Speaker 3: She's kind of fun.
Speaker 1: She kind of is spunky too, like you guys are
Speaker 1: the spunky scientists.
Speaker 4: She is amazing.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 5: I think I was in a couple episodes with her,
Speaker 5: and it was I don't know if it was actually
Speaker 5: the one that I was just telling you about, where
Speaker 5: there was a long shot the person was down at
Speaker 5: the end of the street and then they walk up
Speaker 5: and they see different people, so they go to uh
Speaker 5: Warner and then they come on.
Speaker 4: Up to me.
Speaker 5: It was mostly like that, so we would pass in
Speaker 5: the halls and things like that.
Speaker 4: I didn't she she went to school with.
Speaker 5: One of my best friends, Georgia, and so when I've
Speaker 5: seen her in you know, out at Playwrights Horizons or
Speaker 5: someplace like that, we always say hi and hug and
Speaker 5: she's really great too. But ill it just like a
Speaker 5: lot of New York actors. I'm sorry, I can just
Speaker 5: plug New York actors, right, of course. I think they're
Speaker 5: just everybody is glad to have their jobs, right, We're
Speaker 5: all glad to be employed. And these people really have
Speaker 5: the energy of the show in them, and they're always kind.
Speaker 5: I've worked on shows we all have right where people
Speaker 5: are concerned with all the other things that they're worried about.
Speaker 5: And I know people are worried about stuff on this show,
Speaker 5: but they were always really really positive when I was around.
Speaker 5: Even Maloney with his you know, he he's got his
Speaker 5: his character and I don't I never knew which was
Speaker 5: Chris and which was you know, the actual character. But
Speaker 5: he's got a lot of energy inside and anger inside.
Speaker 4: And you know you can see him working that up
Speaker 4: while we're there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we heard the stretches a lot.
Speaker 4: He does.
Speaker 3: He does confirming.
Speaker 4: They also will.
Speaker 5: Go and talk to the to Dick like sometimes they'll call,
Speaker 5: they'll call, you know, and they'll talk to people, they'll
Speaker 5: talk to the script writers, and you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 4: I'm so bad. They're calling to say, can we get
Speaker 4: rid of Judy Cipher right now? But I don't think
Speaker 4: that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3: No, And do you ever watch any of the episodes
Speaker 3: erre In.
Speaker 5: I used to watch them more, but to be honest, no,
Speaker 5: because I always I always thought I sucked.
Speaker 4: I never thought it was really.
Speaker 5: Good, and so I'd be embarrassed to watch myself, thinking,
Speaker 5: oh gosh, that took me so long to get that
Speaker 5: out out of my mouth or whatever.
Speaker 2: But you know, ah, you're so well because I'm looking
Speaker 2: at the list of that episode z're in, and you're
Speaker 2: in some scary ones too, like Signature. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you remember that one, that one with Erica Christiansen.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh my god, that one was like I
Speaker 2: still have nightmares about that one.
Speaker 5: It's funny when you walk into the sets like you
Speaker 5: you know, you might I don't. You might know that
Speaker 5: you've got a scene in a closet and they've got
Speaker 5: you know, sex toys all over the place, or you know,
Speaker 5: something really horrible has happened or has you know happened
Speaker 5: around you or what you're walking into and that no,
Speaker 5: I think is you prepare those things really are in
Speaker 5: your psyche as you do it.
Speaker 3: But wait, that reminds me of a question.
Speaker 2: So how like you've been around the dead bodies, the
Speaker 2: actors playing the dead bodies.
Speaker 1: So how how do they function? Like do they get up?
Speaker 1: Do they have to stand still throughout? Like what's it
Speaker 1: like to be a dead body and interact with the
Speaker 1: dead bodies that are alive?
Speaker 4: You know, that's a great question.
Speaker 5: Adam Rapp, I was thinking about a scene that we
Speaker 5: did in a house with I was a in a
Speaker 5: bedroom towards the end of the episode with b. D.
Speaker 4: Wong and Adam Rapp was the dead body. Oh.
Speaker 1: We talked to him about this, We had him on
Speaker 1: the podcast and he was like, they made me sit
Speaker 1: in that blood for so long and he was pissed
Speaker 1: at Maloney.
Speaker 5: He did a great job. He was still absolutely still
Speaker 5: on the stretcher. I think he on the stretcher up there.
Speaker 5: If I've got it, my memory might not be the
Speaker 5: same as he's got it. But yeah, in my experience,
Speaker 5: the people, you know, you take it seriously what you're
Speaker 5: doing Yeah, if only the leaders of our country would
Speaker 5: take as seriously what we do with dead bodies on
Speaker 5: the lawn and Order SVU.
Speaker 1: Oh my my gosh, that is so funny.
Speaker 3: Sweet can I ask?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: I was like obviously looking you up, and it seems
Speaker 1: like you done. You've done some theater and stuff, but
Speaker 1: you're also the executive vice president and partner of a
Speaker 1: PR firm.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 5: I just took a new job in January of this year,
Speaker 5: but I worked for ten years twelve no, actually fifteen
Speaker 5: years with a small PR firm called King In Company.
Speaker 5: And my boss, Hi, Judith, would be crazy if I
Speaker 5: didn't say say thing about her. It was actually her
Speaker 5: fiftieth birthday was the final episode that I recorded for
Speaker 5: Law and Order SVU so far, So that was always
Speaker 5: in memory. But now I work for a really wonderful
Speaker 5: organization called v NS Health, which is home care home
Speaker 5: healthcare for people who receive skilled care and nursing and
Speaker 5: other clinical services in their home.
Speaker 4: So I really enjoy doing that.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: And then so you would just be like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: got a Law and Order, I got to be off
Speaker 1: work for a couple of days or what, Yeah, or
Speaker 1: usually I.
Speaker 5: Could do it within three to five hours. So sometimes
Speaker 5: I would, you know, and they're really pretty good about
Speaker 5: keeping you on schedule. But I would take the afternoon
Speaker 5: off and I usually usually got everything done in one day.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I would have it, you know, it'd be back
Speaker 5: to back days, which didn't work out so well if
Speaker 5: you had a lot of meetings. But my clients really
Speaker 5: loved it, and my people colleagues that I worked with
Speaker 5: also really loved that, you know, I did this, and
Speaker 5: so they were all always really accommodating.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 2: We have a friend who just got cast on SNL
Speaker 2: but they were working at a notebook shop, and so
Speaker 2: then the notebook store had to text and be like
Speaker 2: are you You're not coming back, right? And you were like, sorry,
Speaker 2: I forgot to tell them I'm not coming back, and yeah,
Speaker 2: but the notebook storees like we're excited, but bye. Well, So,
Speaker 2: as you know, we do try to stalk you online.
Speaker 2: Do you is it you or not? Do you have
Speaker 2: you put on YouTube videos with fish tanks? Are you
Speaker 2: into fish tanks?
Speaker 3: I saw this question in the outline and I was like, what, Okay, yes, great,
Speaker 3: I don't know that I did.
Speaker 4: This on YouTube?
Speaker 5: And I'm hoping that it's the same thing that I
Speaker 5: have photographed. I used to have a fish called Einstein,
Speaker 5: and if you've seen the YouTube, his head had a
Speaker 5: you know, thing that looked like an exterior brain.
Speaker 1: So yes, yeah, there's some clips of the fish that's
Speaker 1: out there that happens.
Speaker 4: I don't even this is I have no idea, but whatever.
Speaker 2: Did you interact with the young men that played the
Speaker 2: criminals and their dad, like, did you have did you
Speaker 2: meet them at all?
Speaker 4: No? No, not at all.
Speaker 5: I don't think I was ever and that was There
Speaker 5: were times when I hate to admit this, because no
Speaker 5: actress worth her sault really will, but I will there
Speaker 5: were times where I did. This all came together so
Speaker 5: fast that I didn't even have all of the script
Speaker 5: in my head, so I didn't know. I certainly didn't
Speaker 5: know what was I think it was Cooper?
Speaker 3: Is it Bradley Cooper?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm sorry, Okay, the biggest star of all time?
Speaker 4: All right? Hello? And I can't remember his name?
Speaker 1: Well so did I, Like, I feel so silly, but yes,
Speaker 1: Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 5: Bradley Cooper and I got to ride home in the
Speaker 5: van with him that night. It was a cold, snowy night,
Speaker 5: and I was like, very warm.
Speaker 4: It was very nice.
Speaker 1: Do you ever get recognized by SVU fans in the streets?
Speaker 5: Yes, And I have to say this has been the
Speaker 5: most unexpected.
Speaker 4: It's been so interesting.
Speaker 5: Like I remember where was I in Missouri or somewhere
Speaker 5: and I was returning a car, an enterprise rental car
Speaker 5: in some you know, in some Midwest state, and someone
Speaker 5: came up to me and this actually this woman said
Speaker 5: I think this woman asked me if I was on
Speaker 5: SVU or Usually the way the conversation goes is, do
Speaker 5: what have I seen you before?
Speaker 4: Do you know? Do I know you?
Speaker 5: And I'll say, well, don't, I don't know. But have
Speaker 5: you ever watched Law and Order SVU? And they'll say
Speaker 5: all the time or whatever you know, and then they'll
Speaker 5: they'll go.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you were on that.
Speaker 3: Haha.
Speaker 5: There was a lady in Macy's once who got it
Speaker 5: right like, she said, are you on Law and Order SVU?
Speaker 4: Right away? She got it like that.
Speaker 3: I didn't get a discount, but you know, oh.
Speaker 2: Come on, and you know your name, Karen has become
Speaker 2: controversial in the past couple of years.
Speaker 3: Now you're spelled with a C.
Speaker 1: And do you feel like do you tell people that
Speaker 1: all the time, like Karen with a C?
Speaker 4: I told somebody that within the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta let them know you do, because I mean.
Speaker 5: There's a big, big difference. I mean, you've now you've
Speaker 5: talked to me for a few minutes.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm not like that.
Speaker 3: I'm not. You're not calling the manager, we get it.
Speaker 4: No, I am not.
Speaker 5: I would be busting the manager's ass if that's it.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't call the manager. I'd go right to the CEO.
Speaker 3: This was awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Do you have any final thoughts or things that you
Speaker 2: would love to let the audience know, or where to
Speaker 2: find you or anything like that.
Speaker 5: I would just say to you, guys, and to all
Speaker 5: the people that are listening, First of all, I love
Speaker 5: what you do, and I think that you both are
Speaker 5: so wonderful and spirited and fun and you make everybody
Speaker 5: else who watches and listens who listens to you. You
Speaker 5: make everybody who listens to you really feel that way too,
Speaker 5: And I feel like we live in a time where
Speaker 5: that is so important that kudos to you.
Speaker 4: Thanks for doing this.
Speaker 3: You ca Wow, that's so nice.
Speaker 4: We're coming up on Thanksgiving, who knows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, any last minute like tidbits you want to throw
Speaker 1: out before we this has been great, but we can
Speaker 1: let you get on with the rest of your day
Speaker 1: and just.
Speaker 4: Say thanks to Beth for yees. Yes, Beth is so amazing.
Speaker 5: I mean, look, you meet people in your life and
Speaker 5: you have a relationship with them at one point, and
Speaker 5: then ten, fifteen, twenty years later they come back into
Speaker 5: your life and look what happens it really, I mean,
Speaker 5: I would say that's my philosophy is you never know
Speaker 5: and don't give up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Perfect, and yeah, oh man, she's so fun. I
Speaker 1: just love that she loved doing it and what a
Speaker 1: fun character. One of those characters that's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not in the credits at the beginning, but they
Speaker 1: make the show.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need science to solve the crimes we need
Speaker 2: and we need a little joke to give us levity
Speaker 2: when there's a dead body splayed out, and she's the
Speaker 2: one to give it to us. And she's been a
Speaker 2: staple throughout the seasons and I just really enjoyed her.
Speaker 2: And thank you to her niece that made this all happen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, yes, her niece that we saw in Raleigh.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for putting it all together. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know what we do for a post mortem
Speaker 2: on this.
Speaker 1: It's like, don't listen to your brother when he but
Speaker 1: I guess he was fully abused, So I don't know
Speaker 1: what to say.
Speaker 3: He was abusing the dad too.
Speaker 2: But in terms of the real like, there's really nothing
Speaker 2: it is. It is beyond sadistic what happened to these people.
Speaker 1: I was happy that she got married to that guy.
Speaker 1: That was like a nice little silver lining of a
Speaker 1: really horrific thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad they found love.
Speaker 1: But just.
Speaker 3: It's really sobering.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I really hated that crime, not that
Speaker 2: I love any of them at all. You know, what
Speaker 2: was fun when we talked about microchips for our four
Speaker 2: to twenty episode, that was.
Speaker 3: Now, that was a good time. Oh.
Speaker 1: I guess one thing is I guess sometimes it pays
Speaker 1: to be a snob and take a cab, right. Those
Speaker 1: people just fully missed getting the shit murdered out of them.
Speaker 2: Like, Oh, speaking of microchips, though, last night in the hotel,
Speaker 2: I was watching Shark Tank compilations as you do. Well,
Speaker 2: it was a full episode, but then it was like
Speaker 2: an old episode of like it's our ten year anniverse
Speaker 2: or one hundredth episode, and they were reliving like the
Speaker 2: biggest hits, the biggest moneymakers, their favorite presentations, and then
Speaker 2: it was like, let's roast these losers, and so they
Speaker 2: were like making fun of the worst presentations on Shark
Speaker 2: tank history. And one was a microchip guy who the
Speaker 2: clip they showed was him going and the incisions made
Speaker 2: behind your ear and the sharks go incision, and he goes, yes,
Speaker 2: it's a surgery, and it's like the sharks were like,
Speaker 2: we're not investing, and for that reason, we are all out.
Speaker 1: We're not incisioning and putting little microchips in when we
Speaker 1: did the research you went into like your hand, well
Speaker 1: yeah this was I don't even know what he was
Speaker 1: trying to do, but it was something to put behind
Speaker 1: your ear.
Speaker 2: And the sharks were all like hysterically then laughing at
Speaker 2: him and like they just incision.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they really couldn't believe it. But I do love
Speaker 2: shark tanks so fucking much. You know, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I just like when people's dreams come true. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: people's dreams come true there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's for having a good idea, yeah, and
Speaker 1: little k and I like seeing the products out and about.
Speaker 1: But this is not a Shark Tank podcast, but maybe
Speaker 1: we could start one.
Speaker 4: I wish it was.
Speaker 3: You know, Jared Freed knows the Bantam bagel people. You're
Speaker 3: an idiot.
Speaker 2: No, I'm kidding. She just she shook her head. Now
Speaker 2: what you know what?
Speaker 1: There was a review on the podcast that says, why
Speaker 1: does Lisa hate Kara?
Speaker 3: And I don't think Lisa hates.
Speaker 1: Me, but I do think when you tell me that
Speaker 1: I'm an idiot for not knowing what Bantam bagels is,
Speaker 1: it might be what people are talking about. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: is a review that says, I hate Kara, but then
Speaker 1: they gave five stars.
Speaker 3: Like they didn't mind that I hated you.
Speaker 1: Why does Carra Lisa hate Kara? I?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't at all.
Speaker 2: But this is this This could be used against me
Speaker 2: in the court of law for sure. No, there's these
Speaker 2: little bagel balls with cream cheese filled in them, and
Speaker 2: then they had their own little brick and mortar in
Speaker 2: New York, and then Starbucks licensed it, and then they
Speaker 2: just sold the company, but being in every Starbucks store
Speaker 2: is huge. And then they had frozen ones whatever. But
Speaker 2: they asked our friend Jared to invest in the beginning
Speaker 2: and he didn't and he he doesn't love that regrets.
Speaker 3: Gotta be open to that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Jay Train.
Speaker 3: Now he's just sports gambling.
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of men in my life
Speaker 2: have gotten very into sports gambling lately.
Speaker 3: I can name four right now.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, people, I think it's like pre depression, post COVID.
Speaker 2: Everyone's just like trying to get a nut off, and
Speaker 2: so they just cause I'm just out and about. Or
Speaker 2: I was in a green room and a comic was
Speaker 2: watching a fight and he was like, oh, I'm like
Speaker 2: what the fuck? And then I went, did you bet
Speaker 2: money on this fight?
Speaker 3: And he did?
Speaker 2: And that's what happens now. And then our friend's boyfriend
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I gotta go to the bar. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna meet you guys later. I got to watch the
Speaker 2: end of this game and I was like, did you
Speaker 2: just bet? What is happening?
Speaker 1: But you know, in this last midterms, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the measures for that would loosen up sports
Speaker 1: betting and a lot of States didn't pass, so I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't want that to become
Speaker 1: a big thing.
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure it's all the wives that are like,
Speaker 2: can you not spend our kids college money?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: That's true because I just heard of another secret divorce
Speaker 2: and someone told me not to tell anyone, so I
Speaker 2: forgot who it was.
Speaker 1: But gambling is what's caused it. Yeah, thank god. My
Speaker 1: husband is so scared of gambling. He watches me do
Speaker 1: it and he's like, please stop.
Speaker 3: I'm the problem. It's me.
Speaker 2: No, Karasa, she's addicted to gambling. I go, No, you're not,
Speaker 2: should go and it's like, no, an addiction could be
Speaker 2: something you do once every two years, because once I'm there,
Speaker 2: I don't stop.
Speaker 1: When I'm there, I'm super laser focused and I'm crazy.
Speaker 1: But I will say I always say I'm addicted to
Speaker 1: gambling in so far as you can be addicted as
Speaker 1: something you do every two years.
Speaker 3: And I'm drying to go back to Vegas. I want
Speaker 3: to go to Vegas. I want to see the drag queens.
Speaker 2: I want to see a pop superstar, I want to
Speaker 2: see oiled men, and I want to play the.
Speaker 3: Sex in the city. Little game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's make a plan. All right, let's move on.
Speaker 1: Tell everybody about what what's Sister Peg do? Okay, So
Speaker 1: for this week's what would Sister Peg Do, which, as
Speaker 1: you know, is our weekly segment where we send you
Speaker 1: guys in the direction of a book, an organization, an article,
Speaker 1: a podcast even that will flesh out more about what
Speaker 1: we talked about on today's episode. I was thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the plot of the show and how you know,
Speaker 1: this kid was being completely terrorized by his brother and
Speaker 1: so was the father. And so I found this article
Speaker 1: called Sibling Bullying and Abuse colon the Hidden Epidemic by
Speaker 1: Darlene Lancer. It's from Psychology Today, and it's often called
Speaker 1: a forgotten abuse because a lot of people that think, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just sibling rivalry, but like, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: times where it escalates into violence and sexual assault. And
Speaker 1: so I just wanted people to take a look at
Speaker 1: the article and see if you know ways you can
Speaker 1: recognize the signs and resources and stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: that will be in our show notes and you can
Speaker 1: find the article as well, linked in our Instagram and.
Speaker 3: It's a highlight called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: And next week, please join us for the episode Perverted
Speaker 2: and that's season eleven, episode nine and have an amazing
Speaker 2: you know December time and we can't wait to see
Speaker 2: you all next week.
Speaker 3: Bye, guys, come see us live. We love you.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email.
Speaker 1: That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kraklank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun