WEBVTT - Bonus: SketchCop

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<v Speaker 1>From My Heart Radio. This is Missing on nine eleven,

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<v Speaker 1>the story of one woman who vanished on the eve

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<v Speaker 1>of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>John Wallzac. My name I go back professionalized Michael W.

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<v Speaker 1>Street and I'm a forensic facial imaging expert and certified

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<v Speaker 1>forensic artists. I do any type of forensic facial imaging consultation,

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<v Speaker 1>actual work on the face in terms of facial comparisons

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<v Speaker 1>for probable identities, aged progressions, age regressions, postmor imaging, skullar reconstructions,

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<v Speaker 1>such facial composites for witness descriptions, so anything involving the face. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>we pretty much tried to do. As a kid, Michael

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<v Speaker 1>loved art, but after high school he wanted a stable career,

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<v Speaker 1>so he followed in his father's footsteps and became a

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<v Speaker 1>cop art aspirations aside until one night is SI Police

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<v Speaker 1>Sketch broadcast on the news, and I had this epiphany,

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<v Speaker 1>this aha moment where I'm like, that's it. That's what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to do, That's how I can merge the two. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>Michael runs a company called Sketch cop He's one of

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<v Speaker 1>the nation's leading forensic artists trained by both the FBI

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<v Speaker 1>and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. He's

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<v Speaker 1>in such high demand that he often has to turn

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<v Speaker 1>down projects, but he agreed to work with us to

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<v Speaker 1>create an age progressed image of snay Ha so we

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<v Speaker 1>can see what she would look like today, twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>after she disappeared. To start, Michael asked for high quality

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<v Speaker 1>images of say Hawk and her immediate family. I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>for something that the head and the neck and just

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<v Speaker 1>below the breastplate, pretty much Philip. The photo field. Sometimes,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the graduation pictures or professional pictures are taken

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<v Speaker 1>from a few feet back, and there's usually like a

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<v Speaker 1>flag in the background, a bookcase or some other sort

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<v Speaker 1>of decore. You know, those are okay, But again the

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<v Speaker 1>Porkerd's ideal. You get full face, you get some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of expression of emotion, and the photos of the family,

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<v Speaker 1>it gives us an opportunity to see how the person

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<v Speaker 1>is likely to age. All a lot of it has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with lifestyle, medical condition, exercise, diet, alcohol, drug abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>All these different things factor in turns to the aging.

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<v Speaker 1>But the family is always a good place to start,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes if there's enough of a resemblance. I'll actually

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<v Speaker 1>merge some of the photograph of the family member into

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<v Speaker 1>the missing person, so that always helps. Then, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have photo references of your own, because

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<v Speaker 1>hairstyles changed quite a bit and it's unlikely that that

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<v Speaker 1>person is going to wear the same hairstyle throughout the

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<v Speaker 1>course of their life. And then there's preferred colors of

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<v Speaker 1>clothing and styles of clothing and such. So you know

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<v Speaker 1>between the parker of the person, the last known porker

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<v Speaker 1>of them taken, the family reference photos, and your own

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<v Speaker 1>reference photos. You kind of mix all those up together

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<v Speaker 1>and a little bit of science, a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>artistic license, and come up with something that resembles the

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<v Speaker 1>person at least. So talk about this specific case. I

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<v Speaker 1>sent you photos of snay Haw and of her family.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there one in particular a reference photo that jumped

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<v Speaker 1>out immediately is well, this is the one that I

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<v Speaker 1>want to use to start from. When their kids, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit different. I may integrate a photo of

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<v Speaker 1>a parent because there may be something that jumps out

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of a resemblance, and it's good to blend

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<v Speaker 1>photos and such, But when they're adults, I only look

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<v Speaker 1>the parents pictures of the siblings pictures at that particular

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<v Speaker 1>age as a guide in terms of how I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to proceed, and I may not even use them at

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<v Speaker 1>all because they become not so much irrelevant. Like in

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<v Speaker 1>sneahousekis because she was a doctor. She wore her hair

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<v Speaker 1>a certain way, her skin looked a certain way, her

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<v Speaker 1>the way she dressed very professional. It didn't appear to

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<v Speaker 1>me that she had the environmental issues that came into

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<v Speaker 1>play with aging like her parents did. In terms of

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<v Speaker 1>growing up in in UM, I think India, yeah, and um,

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<v Speaker 1>I have a lot of associates, a lot of friends

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<v Speaker 1>in India, and it's a it's a very modern country.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, you know, the lifestyle some

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<v Speaker 1>parts of the country, they're a huge country, is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a little bit different and caused the aging process.

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<v Speaker 1>And even if the parents were professionals, again that the dress,

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<v Speaker 1>the lifestyle, a lot of things were different versus her

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<v Speaker 1>being Americanized. So I just went ahead and looked at

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<v Speaker 1>the brothers and the parents, and there were some things

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<v Speaker 1>that took into consideration in terms of way to the face.

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<v Speaker 1>And I may have gone back and grab some old

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<v Speaker 1>eyebrows from one of seeing hows earlier pictures in which

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<v Speaker 1>she was younger, because the way I age progressed her

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<v Speaker 1>was in a way that a smart, intelligent, professional woman

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<v Speaker 1>who is likely over time to relax into a more

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<v Speaker 1>casual yet still professional, fresh young for her age at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, I progressed her too. So I believe be

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<v Speaker 1>fifty one, very breezy and laid back, but with that

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<v Speaker 1>still professional demeanor and still you know, keeping up her appearance,

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<v Speaker 1>so to speaking, being very interested in keeping up her apparents.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting the impact that the hair and the clothes

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<v Speaker 1>have because the face seems more straightforward, and the hair

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<v Speaker 1>and the clothes, like you said, that seems more just subjective.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've just taken into account somebody's biography and just

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<v Speaker 1>whatever you know about them, and when you choose how

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<v Speaker 1>to express what their hair might look like at a

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<v Speaker 1>certain point, or what clothes they might be wearing. I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I look at myself as a as an artist, but

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<v Speaker 1>not in the sense of like a lot of artists

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<v Speaker 1>to and you know, my art is the vehicle that

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<v Speaker 1>gets me to where I need to be in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of an investigation, and or you know, creating a facial image,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the case of age progression, in the case

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<v Speaker 1>of skelped remains reconstruction. That's where you really get to

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<v Speaker 1>be an artist. In terms of expressing some sort of

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<v Speaker 1>lifestyle imagery, you're almost like imposing your own experience and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of other things. And so in her case,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't believe for a minute that she would be

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<v Speaker 1>any different than she was when she was younger. I

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<v Speaker 1>had a look and project and say, Okay, she worked

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<v Speaker 1>really hard to become what she was in the generations

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<v Speaker 1>she grew up in, and the way she saw herself

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of the way she dressed, the way she

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<v Speaker 1>kept her appearance, her skin, she kept herself up well,

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<v Speaker 1>and I didn't think that that would change over time.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't think that. And again, we can't predict the

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<v Speaker 1>person is going to get sick. We can't predict that

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna become an alcoholic. But I assume, because of

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<v Speaker 1>the discipline that she had to get through medical school

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<v Speaker 1>to achieve that all that she had done before she disappeared,

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<v Speaker 1>that that wasn't going to change if she was still alive.

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<v Speaker 1>And again, until you find a body, always have to

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<v Speaker 1>presume someone's alive out there. That she would still age well,

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<v Speaker 1>so to speak, and maybe by then she was able

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<v Speaker 1>to either be retired SIMI retired, and the clothing, although nice,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have to be so professional, and the hairstyle could

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<v Speaker 1>be a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more length,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit looser still. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be able to keep that smile on

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<v Speaker 1>those friendly eyes that she had, that very approachable appearance.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted her to keep that. So how long did

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<v Speaker 1>it take you to to do this? I probably worked

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<v Speaker 1>on this, um nearly all old day for eight hours.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine I'm you, You're sitting in front of the computer.

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<v Speaker 1>How do how do you even start? Well? Tip of day.

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<v Speaker 1>I started out trying to learn as much as I

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<v Speaker 1>can about the person. So I actually googled her name

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<v Speaker 1>and read and read a Wikipedia story and it was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty consistent with what I heard to begin with. So

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<v Speaker 1>I get kind of a sense or of flavor of

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<v Speaker 1>who the person was, and what they've been through and

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<v Speaker 1>how they got to where they were and what led

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<v Speaker 1>up to disappearance. I looked at the pictures that you provided,

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<v Speaker 1>and I took the targeted photo, which was the most

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<v Speaker 1>portrait like one had her in the front of you,

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<v Speaker 1>and I made some adjustments in terms, so I cropped

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<v Speaker 1>the photo. I made some color adjustments and some skin

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<v Speaker 1>tone adjustments, and from there I looked at the reference

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<v Speaker 1>photos and decided what I was going to use, if

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to use any at all, and then

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<v Speaker 1>start researching my own archives as well as pictures on

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<v Speaker 1>the Internet of different hairstyles and clothing types and such

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<v Speaker 1>signs of aging, you know, skin tones, skin textures, things

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<v Speaker 1>like that, And then I spend the time, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>putting it all together, and sometimes it works and you've

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<v Speaker 1>got to replace the part and use another one. And

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<v Speaker 1>once you pull everything together, it's a matter of scaling,

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<v Speaker 1>setting opacities on your on your layers, and you start

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<v Speaker 1>layering wrinkles over the face or hairstyles, just to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure anything fits together and blends well. Michael emailed me

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<v Speaker 1>the age progressed image. It was really bizarre to see

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<v Speaker 1>today smiling. What am I looking at? I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how to ask this. Am I looking at some blend

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<v Speaker 1>of photos and like artistic photoshop tools or what exactly

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<v Speaker 1>is the final product? The final product is my interpretation

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<v Speaker 1>of what she would look like. If she were found today,

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<v Speaker 1>and the photoshop and the tools I use in nothing

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<v Speaker 1>more than tools. And there's a misconception that it's photoshop

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<v Speaker 1>that drives it is the software programs that drive the

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<v Speaker 1>age progression when a reality is just the opposite. I

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<v Speaker 1>could have take in this and got the same result

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<v Speaker 1>by drawing it or by tracing it with a pencil

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<v Speaker 1>or drawing it with a pencil. So you know, what

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at is basically a portrait based upon my

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of aging, in my interpretation of what she would

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<v Speaker 1>look like, based upon the information I'd have from the

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<v Speaker 1>photos in accomplishing that through Photoshop and other tools I used,

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<v Speaker 1>and looking specifically at the layers this rendering that you did,

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<v Speaker 1>is this? Are there pieces of photos in this? How

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<v Speaker 1>do all the layers come together? Like? Is this a

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<v Speaker 1>mix of art and photos? It's um, it's it's both.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I grab a hairstyle here, I grab a

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<v Speaker 1>shirt there. Her original photo that you provided is the

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<v Speaker 1>base image within that photo. I took that photo and

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<v Speaker 1>I added way to the face. You know, use the

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<v Speaker 1>warping tool to pull a couple of features downward, because

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<v Speaker 1>as we get older, gravity takes effect. But large day

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<v Speaker 1>after that was just taking aging artifacts like facial lines

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<v Speaker 1>in hairstyles and showing just and just layering those on

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<v Speaker 1>top of the original image and blending them in. I

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<v Speaker 1>had to do some digital painting. I had to do

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<v Speaker 1>some air brushing and stuff like that, and some blending.

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<v Speaker 1>But how frequently do you get asked to do age

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<v Speaker 1>progression for adults versus children? I imagine it's it's less common,

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<v Speaker 1>it's less commons It's mostly most of the requests I

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<v Speaker 1>get are from people who want to see how child

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<v Speaker 1>would look had they lived to adulthood. It's it's a

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<v Speaker 1>great tool if nothing else, that helps get their case,

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<v Speaker 1>especially in the case of the missing person out in

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<v Speaker 1>front of media. Again, what about this case in particular?

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<v Speaker 1>Move to you. I thought that there was a person

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<v Speaker 1>who worked really hard, um to get to where she

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<v Speaker 1>was and obviously loving supportive family, and just to have

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<v Speaker 1>all that presumably taken and in this horrible, horrible act

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<v Speaker 1>and her life done an instance, all that work, all

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<v Speaker 1>that discipline, all that time and money, everything with a

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<v Speaker 1>life of promise ahead. In this case, I just saw

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<v Speaker 1>life unfulfilled. You know what's interesting is every everybody who

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<v Speaker 1>worked with her that I've talked to um and friends

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<v Speaker 1>say that she didn't actually want to be a doctor,

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<v Speaker 1>she wanted to be an artist. Mm hmm. Interesting. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the funny thing is is that I've met

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people that wind up in careers lawyers.

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<v Speaker 1>That is, it's probably I talked to more lawyers that

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<v Speaker 1>never wanted to be lawyers. They absolutely hate being lawyers,

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<v Speaker 1>that they could do something else. They would do something

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<v Speaker 1>else in a heartbeat. And a lot of its cultural dynamics,

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<v Speaker 1>family dynamics, practicality. And I'm really thankful that I picked

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<v Speaker 1>a career that I chose. My father want me to

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<v Speaker 1>do it, I chose it, and it the end, I

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<v Speaker 1>was rewarded in such a way that I could go

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<v Speaker 1>off and do what I wanted. If I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>work in a seven eleven a surfboard shop, if I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to go door to do our selling back and cleaners,

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<v Speaker 1>or do what I'm doing, I could do it because

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<v Speaker 1>I could afford to do it. I'm able to do that.

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.080
<v Speaker 1>But it didn't come up without a lot of hard

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.319
<v Speaker 1>work and sacrifices. And thankfully my body wasn't compromised in

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.240
<v Speaker 1>terms of injury or death and my my psyches turned

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.559
<v Speaker 1>out pretty well though. I've seen some really horrible, horrible

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 1>things and heard some horrible things in my lifetime, but unfortunate.

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sorry that she didn't get to realize her dream.

0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 1>To view the age progressive image of snay Ha, go

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.319
<v Speaker 1>to Twitter dot com slash John Wallsack. That's Twitter dot

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:47.199
<v Speaker 1>com slash j O n w A l c z

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 1>a K. We're back next week with a brand new

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>full length episode. Next time I'm missing on nine eleven.

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying that she went out without her glasses

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and without her wallet. Yes, actually, I believed she used

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Rawn's credit card to make the purchase at Century twenty one.

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.319
<v Speaker 1>She didn't even have her own I d s she

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.959
<v Speaker 1>had his credit card. You can reach us by phone

0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.719
<v Speaker 1>at one eight three three new Tips that's one eight

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<v Speaker 1>three three six three nine eight four seven seven again

0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 1>one eight three three six three nine eight four seven seven,

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 1>or you can read speed via email at tips at

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 1>iHeart media dot com. That's tips, T I P s

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 1>at iHeart media dot com. Ben Ballen is our executive producer.

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Paul Deckan is our supervising producer. Chris Brown is our

0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 1>assistant producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer, Sam T.

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Garden is our research assistant, and I'm your host and

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 1>executive producer John Waalzack. Cover art by Pam Peacock. Special

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 1>thanks to to Make a Campbell at iHeart and to

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Christoph Zappery in New Orleans. Also thank you to Michael W.

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Street and ASoP Rock. If you want to hire Michael

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.200
<v Speaker 1>or views work, go to sketch cop dot com. Original

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>theme music by ASoP Rock. Check out Asop's website at

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 1>ASoP rock dot com. If you like this show, check

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>out our first season, Missing in Alaska, about the nineteen

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>seventy two disappearance of two congressmen. Missing on nine eleven

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>is a co production of I Heart Radio and Greenfork

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<v Speaker 1>Media