1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: The family read one of my articles and said, what, 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 2: there's a five hundred thousand dollars settlement. We haven't gotten 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: a dime, but they were too scared to say anything 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: because it's the Murdochs. 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 3: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 3: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 3: research for my many audio and book projects has taken 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 3: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 3: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 3: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 3: crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 3: good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 3: unpublished details behind their stories. I've listened to many versions 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,639 Speaker 3: of the story of the Murdoch Dynasty, and I'm always 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 3: interested in hearing new, fresh details. 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Well. 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: Author and podcast host Mandy Mattney didn't disappoint with her 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: book Blood on Their Hands Murder Corruption in the Fall 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: of the Murdoch Dynasty. She told me details that I've 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 3: never heard before after talking with countless locals in the 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 3: low country of South Carolina. So let's get for the 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 3: audience out of the way. The pronunciation of our main 25 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: character here, because I have heard every iteration, is it 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: Alex or Alec from you? 27 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: His friends and family call him Elick. It's spelt like Alex, 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: but they call him Elick like that. Okay, some people 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: call him Alex, some people call him Aleck. 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with Alec because I don't think I'll 31 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 3: remember the family pronuncie. 32 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 4: It's too hard too. 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: If you don't have a serious Southern accent, and that's 34 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 2: where it flows naturally, it's a hard look. 35 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: Well, let's start with your origin story with this story. 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: You started as a reporter right when this whole thing 37 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: came out. 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 39 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: I was a reporter at the Island Packet newspaper in 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 2: Hilton Head, South Carolina, and we were covering the county 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: where the infamous boat crash occurred in twenty nineteen. I 42 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: was actually the breaking news editor at the time. The 43 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: day of the boat crash, when Mallory went missing and 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: we started to hear who the potential driver was. Immediately 45 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: people started saying, look for corruption in this one. This 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: family's very powerful. Paul, the alleged driver is from a 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: family of big time attorneys, and look out, you guys 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 2: need to be on this story. So that just kind 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: of turns something on in my brain that made me 50 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: dig and not stop. And that will be five years 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: ago this February, which is insane. 52 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 3: My gosh, more involved with someone else's family than your 53 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: own family sometimes, I'm betting, yeah, And I. 54 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 4: Just know too many details at this point. 55 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: I missed my brain when it wasn't like completely occupied 56 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: by you know, what happened on the day of the 57 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: murders and just different random facts of this case. 58 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: I would say, what this has always reminded me of 59 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: is the Kennedy's, which stretches across Michael Skagel into you know, 60 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: Edward Kennedy and Chapiquitic into all kinds of rumors with 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: JFK and Robert. I mean it just the Kennedys seemed 62 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: like one of those self sabotaging families. The Murdocks kind 63 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: of have that same feel to me. But let's go 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: through you. You started talking about what happened with Mallory 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: Beach in the boat. So let's start for the year 66 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 3: and just give me the nuts and bolts of that 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: story for people who haven't heard it yet. 68 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: So it's interesting that you say the Kennedys because my 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: first episode of the Murdoch Murders podcast was called South 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: Carolina's chap Equittick and it was about the boat crash, 71 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: which the boat crash is very, very similar to Chapiquittick, 72 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: an extremely tragic story. Six teenagers were having a good 73 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: time partying in a boat on a February day and 74 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 2: evening and Paul Murdoch was driving his father's boat, got 75 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: way way way too drunk and crashed into a bridge 76 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: outside of Paras Island, South Carolina. During that crash, Mallory 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: Beach's body was ejected from the boat and she went 78 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: missing for a week before her body was found. Initially 79 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: it was a rescue mission. They weren't making a rest 80 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: in the boat crash. We were pushing asking for what's 81 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: going on with the criminal investigation. I mean, at this point, 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: I had been a reporter almost ten years and was 83 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 2: used to you know, dei crashes, where it's a dui 84 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: crash and somebody's immediately breathalyzed and tested, and it was 85 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: very bizarre right off the bat that there was no arrest, 86 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: and it was very clear early on all these kids 87 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: were drinking. And when you start talking to people from 88 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: around town, and that's in Hampton, South Carolina, they all 89 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: said Paul was driving the boat. There's no questions about that. 90 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: Paul doesn't let anybody else drive his father's boat, and 91 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: he's known for drinking and driving, and he and this 92 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: family's done for getting away from things. Another great reporter 93 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: who worked for the Packet at the time, her name 94 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: was Teresa Moss and my co host on True Sunlight 95 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: Now and has always been my partner in true crime. 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: Liz Ferrell was working with me at the Packet at 97 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: the time, and the three of us just kind of 98 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: started digging into different angles of this story and started 99 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: getting sources to tell us exactly what the deal is 100 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: with this family. Where our newsroom was was about an 101 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: hour and a half away from Hampton, South Carolina. So 102 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: like the place where the Murdocks really ruled in Beufort County, 103 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: some people knew them, especially in law enforcement and things, 104 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: and new stories of them. 105 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 4: Because the Murdoch family. 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: Ruled this solicitor's office, which is our form of a 107 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: DA's office for nearly one hundred years in South Carolina. 108 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: So three different Murdochs were essentially the position of the 109 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: DA from the nineteen twenties to the early two thousands, 110 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: and that. 111 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 4: Comes with a lot of power. 112 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: And they also had this giant law firm, giant as 113 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: in very powerful, not a million lawyers in it. They 114 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: were known for settling huge, multimillion dollar cases. And anyways, 115 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 2: there's just all of these little strings of this story 116 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: and we just all started pulling at them and pulling 117 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: at them. And for the two years after the boat crash, 118 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: the strings I was mostly pulling at was did the 119 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: Murdoch family interfere with the investigation? And if they did, 120 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: then why is nothing happening with that? And the more 121 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: we learned, it was very clear that they interfered, and 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: still to this day they haven't been charged with any 123 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: interference in the boat crash investigation. Paul Murdoch was charged 124 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: in April of twenty nineteen with three felony buis and 125 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: unfortunately he was never able to stand trial for that 126 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: because in June twenty twenty one, his father murdered him 127 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: and his mother. It felt like the whole world had 128 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: shifted when I heard that Paul and Maggie were murdered. 129 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: I had just been admittedly obsessing over the story and 130 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: over this family and had the strings. Liz and I 131 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: had so many different files that we would share with 132 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: each other constantly, and we were constantly getting new sources 133 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: and learning new tidbits about the Murdoch family for those 134 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: two years, like our reporting did not stop. So when 135 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: it happened, I was like, this is going to I 136 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: knew right then that it was going to be one 137 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: of the craziest murder investigations, and not only our state's history, 138 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: but in the United States because of the power of 139 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: the Murdoch family. So I approached this story differently because 140 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: I was working on it. I like to say I 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: was working on it before mainstream media cared about it. 142 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: I really cared about the boat crash story, I really 143 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: cared about Stephen Smith, I really cared about Gloria Sadderfield 144 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 2: and wrote about all of those stories before that happened. 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: Well, let's get the timeline down before we start talking 146 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: about the stories. So, just for the audience that doesn't know, 147 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: we have Stephen Smith who was a nineteen year old 148 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 3: young man who was found in the middle of the road, right, 149 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 3: and it was presumed that this was a hit and run. 150 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: Then we have. 151 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 3: Gloria Sadderfield, who was the Murdoch's housekeeper, who supposedly fell 152 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: on some stairs and ended up dying. You've got the 153 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: boat crash, You've got the murders of Paul and Maggie Murdoch, 154 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: and then finally you've got Alec and his banana plan 155 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: to have someone shoot him, apparently so that his son, 156 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 3: his remaining son, could receive the life insurance money. 157 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: What comes where and in what order? 158 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: Because even now, despite the fact that I have literally 159 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: seen six different types of television programs about this, I 160 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 3: still am not one hundred percent sure what goes where 161 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: in the order? 162 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: Right, So I will tell you about how I found 163 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 2: out about each one of them. In the weeks after 164 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: the boat crash, and I was starting to learn as 165 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: much as I could about the Murdoch family and was 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: poking around online. I started to see all of these 167 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: memes saying justice for Steven, and Mallory just started out like, 168 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: Who's Steven? What happened to Stephen? What's going on here? 169 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: And I was able to contact some Hampton County locals 170 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: who talked to me and were terrified. It's so terrified 171 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: to speak about. Just to utter the Murdoch name in 172 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen was a very scary thing for locals to 173 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: do and very against the grain. So the reporting initially 174 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: was really difficult to get because it was just hard 175 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: to get sources who weren't terrified enough to talk. Rumors 176 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 2: were that the Murdoch boys did it. I heard they 177 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: covered it up, and then so I got the case file, 178 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: and then in the case file, Liz and I start 179 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: going through it and we see that the Murdoch name 180 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: is brought up dozens of times. 181 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: I didn't know that dozens of times in. 182 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: The dozens, wow, dozens, And then they investigate. So Stephen died. 183 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: He was found in the middle of a Hampton County 184 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: rural road in twenty fifteen, and the case went to 185 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: the Highway Patrol because they thought that it was a 186 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: hit and run, but his only injury was to his head, 187 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: so it was and there was no evidence of a 188 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: vehicular homicide whatsoever that the Highwave Patrol found. 189 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 4: The Highway Patrol didn't believe that it. 190 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: Was a vehicular homicide, but they still were given this 191 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: case and it was really weird, and it was It's 192 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: an example of when that initial call is wrong in 193 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: an investigation, everything goes wrong. So it was the Highway 194 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: Patrol investigating what is a murder and what is actually 195 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: a homicide, and they were not just equipped to do that. 196 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: They did not interview nearly the amount. 197 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: Of people that I believe that they should have, just 198 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: things like an initial canvassing of the area of where 199 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: he was found, Like they didn't ask the neighbors, did 200 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 2: you hear anything this night? Things like that, And it 201 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: was a very poorly done investigation that just ended in 202 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. But through out twenty fifteen, the little that 203 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: the Highway Patrol did gather was people kept saying, I'm 204 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: hearing it was the Murdoch family. I'm hearing it was 205 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: Buster Murdoch. I'm hearing it was a bunch of boys 206 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: that hit him with a baseball bat. And they never 207 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: got close to where the rumor was coming from, and 208 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 2: they just kind of quit, which was very strange. 209 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: Did you find anything that really does point to Buster 210 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: Murdoch being involved with this, because I'll be honest, I've 211 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: been unsatisfied with any kind of evidence that points to him. 212 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: I know that rumor he was with somebodies and coming 213 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: back from maybe baseball practice or something, and they were 214 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: toying around with him and then he ends up dead. 215 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 3: But I just haven't heard anyone say we know for 216 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: sure Buster was involved in a sexual relationship with Stephen, 217 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 3: and that is a motivation. This seems to be the 218 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: flimsiest of all the cases. 219 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 2: It is a flimsy case, and it's because it was 220 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 2: investigated so poorly, and so many strange things happened, and 221 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: the initial steps of the investigation that appeared to be 222 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: like somebody was interfering with it, and appeared to look 223 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: like somebody was intentionally tanking this case. 224 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 4: And to me, that is the most evidence. 225 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 2: And I know that it's it's not nearly enough to 226 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 2: charge anybney, not near And I've never said I believe 227 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: Buster did it. 228 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 4: I don't know who did it. 229 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: But I think the most compelling part of this case 230 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: is that the Highway Patrol did such a terrible job 231 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: with investigating it in the first year, and so many 232 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: things went so wrong in those initial steps of the investigation, 233 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: and now It's going to be very. 234 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 4: Hard to figure out because. 235 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: We're on eight years later, and you know, the further 236 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: away you get from a murder, it's just a lot harder. 237 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: But it was interesting the amount of times the Murdock 238 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: name got brought up, and then Highway Patrol now says 239 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: that there was pressure not to investigate them. And it 240 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 2: was also very interesting like Buster and Murdos name was 241 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: written down as a person that they wanted to interview, 242 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: and they called him one time and then they just 243 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: dropped it and moved on. So it's just things like that. 244 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: I don't know what kind of evidence there could be 245 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: against anyone, not just Buster, and I again got to 246 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: be a crystal clear we don't know who did it. 247 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: It was just a very strange investigation that appeared to 248 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: have powerful people influencing it. And you have to ask 249 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: the question who was powerful enough to do that and why. 250 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: You would think that pulling Buster's text records, you know, 251 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 3: his text messages would unless he has a burner phone, 252 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: which is possible I guess, would at least be able 253 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: to create some kind of connection. But I'm assuming they 254 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: did that with Stephen, and maybe they didn't find a 255 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: connection to Buster, but I just know it's so man. 256 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 3: It is the most ambiguous thing on anything that I've 257 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: ever heard. 258 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: So that's interesting. 259 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: So you didn't track down anyone in Hampton County who 260 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: said I know or I know there's rumors, but I 261 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: know that they were involved. That was a hard nut 262 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 3: to crack. I'm assuming for y'all. 263 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: I had one source who swore it, and then the family. 264 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: They think that they would have been aware if he 265 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: was involved with Buster. It's just hard. Teenagers are secretive. 266 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: He was nineteen. I know that, Like my parents didn't 267 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: know who I was dating or involved with at nineteen 268 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: a lot of the times, because I mean, it's just 269 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: a different part of life. So especially when it's being 270 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: gay in a small town, you're even more secretive about everything. 271 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: And it's all just extremely weird. But the bottom line 272 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: and the most unfortunate part about all of it is 273 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: how Steven was just shoved to the side, and investigators 274 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: really in the media didn't care about it either, And 275 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: that made me really angry when I started looking into 276 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: it in twenty nineteen, like, how does a nineteen year 277 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: old nursing student, how does he get found in the 278 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: middle of the roads headbashed and there's only three four 279 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: articles in total at that time about what happened, and 280 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: that was just so sad to me. 281 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 4: It was like nobody cared. 282 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: So this was twenty fifteen. 283 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: Then the next thing is the boat accident which ends 284 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: the life of Mallory Beach, which is twenty nineteen. 285 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: What is the next thing that happens. 286 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: You're digging into the story of Mallory Beach, you're hearing 287 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: everything about Stephen Smith now because it's going viral, and 288 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 3: then the next thing that happens is what well. 289 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: We have to rewind again during that investigation, when I 290 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: was speaking with a few people from Hampton County, if 291 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: you owed my initial sources, I kept hearing over and 292 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: over look into Steven Smith's death, but also did you 293 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: hear about the housekeeper? Oh, there was rumors online that 294 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: Paul had killed Gloria. 295 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 4: There were she was nameless online. 296 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: I again, it was the phrase like, did you hear 297 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: Paul killed the housekeeper? Did you should look into the 298 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: housekeeper's death? That was one of the things that when 299 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 2: I first heard it, I was like, there's no way. 300 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 2: That just sounds like a movie, That sounds like the 301 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: craziest thing I've ever heard. And then I found digging 302 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: into Alex Murdoch. In the court filings in Hampton County, 303 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: I found a very odd five hundred thousand dollars settlement 304 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: that ended up being like the document that exposed Alex's 305 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: extreme financial crimes. So in twenty nineteen, I find this 306 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 2: document that essentially says the Gloria Sadderfield, the Murdochs housekeeper, 307 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: fell down the stairs at the Murdoch's property and Alex 308 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: was getting sue by his best friend, Corey Fleming for 309 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: her death. And that was the first red flag to me. 310 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: It was like, why would Alex's best friend be on 311 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: Gloria Sadderfield's side in a lawsuit? 312 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 4: This doesn't make any sense. 313 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: Wrote about it a couple times, and the family I 314 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: didn't know at the time, but the family in twenty 315 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: twenty one, I believe, or twenty early twenty twenty read 316 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: one of my articles and said, what, there's a five 317 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars settlement. We haven't gotten a dime, but 318 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: they were too scared to say anything, wow, because it's 319 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: the Murdochs. So I was skeered into all of this, 320 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: and then the murders happened. 321 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: When does the podcast start? 322 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: So you are the host of a wildly popular podcast, 323 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: the Murdoch Murders Podcast. 324 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: When do you start that? 325 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because my husband and I during the pandemic, 326 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: were often bored and I loved true crime podcast I 327 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 2: started listening to Cereal. I just really was excited about 328 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: like this new form of storytelling and this new form 329 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: of journalism that didn't exist when I was in school, 330 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: or I didn't know it existed. And I always wanted 331 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: to do a podcast ever since I heard Cereal. And 332 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: when the boat crash happened and we start to get 333 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: the nine to one one tapes and we start to 334 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 2: get all of this crazy stuff, David and I are like, 335 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: we need to do a podcast on the boat crash 336 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 2: and everything that happened with the boat crash, and we're 337 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 2: going to call it on Archer's Creek. But you know 338 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: how things like that go. It was a great idea, 339 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: but we never got around to like doing it. But 340 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: the day that the murders happened, David, my husband, sent 341 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 2: me an email and the day was really crazy. But 342 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: it's funny to look back on this email and the 343 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 2: email says how to start a podcast, and it's like 344 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: a link to a Wikipedia page or something, and he 345 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: says something like, we need to do this. We both 346 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: understood like, if we're not going to do it now, 347 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: then never. But the other reason was because the story 348 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 2: started to spin very quickly, and it was national media 349 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 2: came in right after the murders, and it was very 350 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: clear that the Murdoch's agenda and narrative was getting out 351 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: into the national media's narrative and they were just getting 352 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 2: a lot wrong with the story. And a lot of 353 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 2: people just didn't understand all the complexities of the Murdoch story, 354 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: and a lot of people following it nationally didn't understand 355 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: what kind of family we were talking about. This was 356 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 2: not an in cold blood situation where an innocent family 357 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: is just slaughtered and there's no reason for it, and 358 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: not at all to say that any of them deserved this, 359 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: But it was an extremely complicated story I knew was 360 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: perfect for podcasting, and so we put out our first 361 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: episode two weeks after the murders. 362 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 3: Wow, and did you feel like you had good access 363 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 3: at this point to local sources, even if they stayed 364 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: on background for listeners who dont no background basically means 365 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 3: they're not being named, they're just getting information and maybe 366 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: they want to remain anonymous. Did you have good sources? 367 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 3: Do you think locally at this point? 368 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah? And that was what was amazing. It was 369 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 2: like I was just sitting on this pile of information 370 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: or access to sources. And I also, at the time 371 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 2: of the murders, my Facebook inbox especially and my email 372 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: started to get full with more sources from Hampton saying 373 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: I know that you've been on this story for a while, 374 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: and I know that you cared about all of this before, 375 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: and we trust your reporting, so let me tell you this. 376 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 4: So yeah, I had. 377 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 2: A huge, huge headstart and a lot of reporting that 378 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 2: was very, very difficult to do and took a long time. 379 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 2: So I and again I didn't know what to do 380 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: with it, and a documentary companies started coming in and 381 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 2: wanting things, and it was just an insane time. 382 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 3: Let's go back just for a moment and just a 383 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 3: quick little nuts and bolt of what happened with Gloria Sadderfield, 384 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 3: which I think is one of the saddest aspects of 385 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 3: this family. I mean, every death that happens here is sad, 386 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: but with Gloria Sadderfield is one of the more mysterious ones, 387 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 3: and just it just feels like her poor family has 388 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: just gone through the ringer on this. But can you 389 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 3: tell me, give me a little summary of what happened 390 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 3: with her and when. 391 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: Gloria Sadderfield is one of the saddest stories in this 392 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 2: and I to this day don't think that we are 393 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: ever going to be able to fully nail down exactly 394 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 2: what happened because the witnesses are dead and Alex is 395 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 2: a liar. 396 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 4: So Gloria was the housekeeper for. 397 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 2: The Murdoch family for a very long time, but way 398 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: more than a housekeeper. She was very close with Paul. 399 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: Paul considered her like a mother and raised the Murdoch 400 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 2: boys and did a lot for them. In February of 401 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, we don't know what happened, but she was 402 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: at Moselle. Maggie Murdoch heard a scream, came outside, and 403 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: they thought that she fell at the stairs. But I'm 404 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 2: not even going to say for sure that she fell 405 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: because I honestly do not know what happened to her. 406 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 2: Injuries are again very strange and don't really match up 407 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: with falling, but she saw her unconscious on the ground 408 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: and bleeding and with Gloria was taken to the hospital 409 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 2: and a few weeks later she died. And she was 410 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: just in her fifties, and it was such a horrible situation. 411 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: Alex Murdoch unfortunately took advantage of her death. 412 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 4: That is a fact. 413 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: Whether or not he had something to do with her death, 414 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: we don't know, but I think it's the question is 415 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 2: worth asking still to this day. What Alex did following 416 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: her death was probably one of the most horrible crimes 417 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 2: I've seen in my reporting, and just greedy and disgusting, 418 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: which is, he set up a perfect system between He 419 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: got Gloria's sons to agree to basically sign their rights 420 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: away to sue him, and got his friend to sue 421 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: him for a insurance settlement, and they pressured the insurance 422 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: company to settle for an astronomical amount of four point 423 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: three million dollars without any litigation, with just a couple letters. 424 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: Instead of Gloria's family getting that money, Alex took all 425 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: of it and Gloria's family didn't get a dime. Gloria's 426 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: son was kicked out of his trailer during this time 427 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: didn't have enough money to afford the home that he 428 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: lived in. Both of her sons needed money terribly bad, 429 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: and Alex s Murdoch was completely aware of this and 430 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: would not throw them a a dime. 431 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 4: Every time Tony. 432 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 2: Saderfield, Gloria's son, would ask Alex what's going on at 433 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: the lawsuit, he would just say, yeah, yeah, buddy, it's coming, 434 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: and he had already taken all the money. 435 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 4: Alex made a. 436 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: Fake Forge account, which I don't even want to explain 437 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: it because it's so stupid. He made a company, a 438 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 2: fake company named Forge, and when insurance companies and lots 439 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: of people should have been checking, why is this Forge 440 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: company going to a PO box in Hampton County And 441 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: why are we just sending multimillion dollar checks that say 442 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: four if there's just a million things that were wrong, 443 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 2: And I believe lots of people knew that something was 444 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: going on but didn't say anything, and that's just disgusting. 445 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 2: But we didn't discover that until after the murders, the 446 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 2: full scheme, and that was when my co host on COBA, 447 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: Justice attorney Eric Bland came into the picture and he 448 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: found out within he was hired by the Saderfield family 449 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 2: and really uncovered the scheme within a few weeks, and 450 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 2: it was just unbelievable. Then we found out that he 451 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: was stealing from He was doing this to multiple clients, 452 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 2: not to the extent the Saderfield seems to be the 453 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: worst one. Everybody else He kind of gave a little 454 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 2: bit of money to and lied to them about how 455 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: much they were fully being given. But yeah, he stole 456 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: and lied and cheated a lot of very vulnerable people 457 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: who were grieving the loss of a family member. And 458 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: that's just a horrific financial scheme to uncover. 459 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 3: You know. One refrain that I've heard a lot around 460 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 3: his motive was drug abuse, and I feel like one 461 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: of the things I had heard was where else would 462 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: the money have gone? 463 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: This is so much money. 464 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the drug addiction was always a convenient 465 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: excuse that team Murdock has used. I think, especially at 466 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: the time in twenty twenty one, people were very sympathetic 467 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: towards opioid addicts across the country and rightfully, oh, and 468 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: I think that they saw that as an opportunity to 469 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: get sympathy from the public. And I've heard from sources 470 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: that they've seen him doing pills. He did have some 471 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: sort of a lots of recreational drugs, but as far 472 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 2: as like a multimillion dollar drug habit have never bought 473 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: that theory, not for a second. I believe his money 474 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: is overseas and we are starting to uncover little strings 475 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: with that. And it's really exciting because whereas the money 476 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 2: has been one of the biggest questions, he stole over 477 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: ten million dollars from these people and claims to be broke. 478 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 3: So we get to the night of the murders, which 479 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 3: is sort of the big climax of this story. Will 480 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 3: you lay out what happened the night that Maggie and 481 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: Paul died? 482 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: So June seventh, twenty twenty one, and this is how 483 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 2: all of these cases kind of collide. On June tenth, 484 00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 2: Alex was anticipating a hearing in the boat crash law suit. 485 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 2: He would likely have not gone his way. He had 486 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 2: been avoiding lots of requests from the Beaches family's attorney 487 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 2: to reveal his financial records, and that he had been 488 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 2: fighting that for a very long time, and because he 489 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 2: had been saying I'm broke, I don't have any money, 490 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 2: don't sue me because I don't have any money, and 491 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: the Beaches lawyer was saying, I know you're rich, Alex, 492 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: you have money somewhere. 493 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: Fork it over. 494 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: So he had a hearing coming up, and he was 495 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,719 Speaker 2: very nervous about this hearing because his finances are a 496 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: disaster and potentially if a judge took a look into 497 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: his finances, he would see that he had this entire 498 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: criminal operation happening. So he was facing that pressure. And 499 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 2: at the same time, on the morning of June seventh, 500 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: at PMPD, the law firm that Alex Murdoch worked for, 501 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: the CFO, Genie Seconder, approached him with a a major problem, 502 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: which was, we are missing seven hundred and ninety thousand 503 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: dollars from one of your lawsuits. 504 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 4: Where is it, Alex? 505 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: And you've been messing around and you've been avoiding this 506 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: what is going on? And it was really the first 507 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: time his own law firm had put any sort of 508 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 2: real pressure on him, showing that they were somewhat aware 509 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: of his financial crimes. So Alex has a lot going 510 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: on that day and he goes back to Mozille, his 511 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 2: home in Callington County that's on a beautiful hunting estate, 512 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: and he has dinner with his wife, Maggie and his 513 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: son Paul, and after dinner they all go to the 514 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 2: dog kennels for some reason. We don't know why they 515 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: were down there, and Maggie and Paul are murdered while 516 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 2: they are down at those kennels. The probably biggest thing 517 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: as far as the evidence against Alex Murdoch is that 518 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: right before Maggie and Paul were murdered, Paul was taking 519 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: a video on his phone for his friend who he 520 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: was watching his dog, and there was something wrong with 521 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: the dog's tail. And because his friend was saying, what's 522 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: wrong with the dog, show it to me in a 523 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 2: video and I'll send it to you. And this is 524 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: just a few minutes before this happened, and Alex obviously 525 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: didn't realize it, but his voices in the background of 526 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: that video, and so Alex was at the murder scene 527 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: minutes before they were murdered, and immediately when police got 528 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 2: there that night light about it and said I wasn't 529 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: at the counts. Alex says that he goes to his parents' 530 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: house and to check on his mother. His father is dying. 531 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: His father ends up dying on June tenth, of cancer. 532 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: His father's anticipated death was also a part of the 533 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: pressure that was weighing on Alex time because his father 534 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 2: was the real power in that family, and as his 535 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: father was really the one who could pull strings. So 536 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: I think that all of these things combined in the pressure. 537 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: I believe in his mind he thought if he murdered 538 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: his wife and son, all of his problems, all of 539 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: his financial problems, would go away. People would stop looking 540 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: at him with a critical eye and just immediately feel 541 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: sorry for him, which most people did. 542 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 3: It seemed to me like people thought that this was 543 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 3: something that was connected. This was a vengeance thing, you know, 544 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 3: something connected to the boat. Did you get a sense 545 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 3: that at any point early on local law enforcement thought 546 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 3: that this was a funny story and they suspected him, 547 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: or do you think kind of from the very beginning 548 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 3: with his brother coming down to the scene and you know, 549 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 3: all of the real skeezy things that happened in the 550 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: story that this was, you know, had the potential for 551 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 3: him to to actually get away with this. 552 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 4: That's actually a really good question. 553 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: I have text message is between me and Liz the 554 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: morning that we found out, and we both immediately said 555 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: it has to be somebody within the family, Is it Alex. 556 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 2: I've started to recently watch a lot of the videos 557 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: within their initial investigation, and while they are being extremely careful, 558 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: and I believed that they were being careful because the 559 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 2: prosecutor Duffy Stone, who was in charge over the entire investigation, 560 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: we have heard many times that he was telling SLED 561 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: agents and investigators to not look into Alex Murdoch and 562 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: that there's no way that he did anything with that. 563 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: But you could tell that SLED and investigators just gave 564 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: him a lot of grace and deference during the investigation, 565 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: but all signs were always pointing to him. I believe 566 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: in the first few days of the investigation, when SLED 567 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 2: started to understand who the Murdocks were in the kind 568 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: of power that they had, I think it was very 569 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: obvious it would be highly unlikely for somebody to sneak 570 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 2: on to the Murdoch's property and murder them with the 571 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: Murdoch's guns. That was probably the biggest sign. Maggie and 572 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: call were both killed with two different weapons, a shotgun 573 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 2: and a semi automatic rifle, and that was a crazy 574 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: part of the crime as well, because it's rare and 575 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: a double homicide for two people to be killed with 576 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: different weapons, and that was making a lot of people say, oh, 577 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: it had to be two different shooters. It was very 578 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 2: unlikely early on for people who understood the magnitude of 579 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: the Murdocks and the story that there would be anybody 580 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 2: brave enough to sneak onto that property and kill the 581 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: Murdoch family with their own guns. It's like you said, 582 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: it would be like killing the Kennedys in this area. 583 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: There were just so untouchable at the time and people 584 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: were so terrified of them. 585 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 4: But yeah, in the. 586 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 2: Initial in those initial few first weeks, I was getting 587 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: really angry seeing a lot of coverage pointing at this 588 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: is a revenge killing for the boat crash, pointing at 589 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: everywhere else, and I felt horribly for those kids who 590 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: were involved in the boat crash. They were really trying 591 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 2: to move on with their lives and had the worst 592 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 2: thing ever happened to them when they were just nineteen 593 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 2: of their friend being killed in front of them, and 594 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 2: then their other friend is now dead and random people 595 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 2: in the media and on social media are all of 596 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 2: a sudden blaming them and saying that they had something 597 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: to do with this. 598 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 4: And it was just really tough to watch. 599 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 3: What is the biggest surprise to you that maybe someone 600 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: like me doesn't know up until this part of the story. 601 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 3: Is there something that you dug up or somebody told 602 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 3: you that you know, you've talked about in the book 603 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 3: or on the podcast, that it just seems fresh to you. 604 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 4: Gosh. 605 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 2: I mean, the book is filled with tiny details that 606 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot of a lot of very loyal 607 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: podcast listeners really enjoyed it because it was so different 608 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 2: from the podcast. It was behind the scenes how I 609 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: got connected with my sources in this case, and how 610 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: I continue to push a lot of them for a 611 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 2: long time to really get the truth out, and just 612 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 2: the work that's involved in this kind of journalism. And 613 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: I think the people reading the book got an appreciation 614 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 2: for that because you just don't talk about those things. 615 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 2: I didn't talk about a lot of that and the 616 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 2: little details of how things came about. And I think 617 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: that this is going to be one of the most 618 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: overwritten and overcovered true crime. 619 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 4: Stories of all time. 620 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 2: And I knew that when I started working on my book, 621 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: and it just occurred to me, there's going to be 622 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: a million book report type books with this story that 623 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: are just this is what. 624 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 4: Happened, blah blah blah. 625 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 2: And so my book is the story behind the story 626 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 2: and specifically a lot of the women who helped expose 627 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 2: this dynasty and really took it down. 628 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the end of the story, which 629 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 3: is back on a road, like a lonely, dusty road, right, 630 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 3: and something really dramatic happens that shocked even me. I 631 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 3: don't know I could be shocked anymore with this story. 632 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 3: Talk about kind of what the finale was of this 633 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 3: before he really goes on trial. 634 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 2: I wish that was the finale. That was like the 635 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 2: beginning of the marathon. That was really when things spirallled 636 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 2: into another atmosphere in this story. It was covered in 637 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 2: national media, but not nearly to the same level. A 638 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 2: Labor Day weekend of twenty twenty one, so a few 639 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: months after the double homicide, there was no arrest being 640 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 2: made in the murders and Alex was still out free, 641 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 2: but we did not know behind the scenes, Led was 642 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: kind of closing in on him, on us as a 643 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: suspect and was not dismissing him and was not saying 644 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 2: you're clear, which was adding to the pressure and throughout 645 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: the summer, We've seen a numerous reports of Alex's financial 646 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: crimes and the problems that were occurring with that were 647 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 2: starting to rear their head again, and his law farm 648 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 2: was starting to question where this money was and it 649 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: was just a lot more pressure on him. And Alex 650 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 2: gets shot on the side of the road Laborty weekend 651 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 2: of September of twenty twenty one, which was just insane. 652 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: I remember where I was when I found out. I 653 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 2: remember the moment of looking at my phone and it's 654 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 2: just like Alex's Stott, alexis Stott, Alex's trot. Immediately right 655 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 2: off the bat, people started saying, but the story doesn't 656 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 2: add up. 657 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 4: There's something weird here o. 658 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 2: Sources were saying that he was shot in the leg, 659 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 2: then shot in the head at different hospitals, and it 660 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 2: was just really weird. I'm used to getting kind of 661 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 2: a variety of different information and figuring out how to 662 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 2: verify it in these breaking news situations, but this was 663 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 2: just so different. If he was shot in the head, 664 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 2: that would be a completely different scenario than anything else, 665 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 2: and that would be very serious. So what happened here 666 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: and it turned out he was just nicked in the head. 667 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 2: I don't even think it was a bullet. I think 668 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 2: that he took a rock to his head personally and 669 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 2: then called the cops and said that he was shot. 670 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 2: A gun did go off, and he essentially staged this 671 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 2: roadside shooting incident and included his distant cousin buddy known 672 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 2: as cousin Eddie. And I don't believe that cousin Eddie 673 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 2: really had an idea of what was going on there. 674 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 2: I think Alex came up with a scenario to make 675 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 2: it look like his family was being targeted and that 676 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 2: his family was in danger so that Sled would get 677 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 2: off of him for the murders. And I also think 678 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 2: that his life was just collapsing in again. He didn't 679 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 2: know what to do, so again he chose violence, and 680 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: that's the pattern of Alex Murdock. 681 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 3: So you don't think it was an intentional taking his 682 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: own life, but faking a murder so that Buster could 683 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 3: get the life insurance money, which is sort of the 684 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 3: story that goes around. Do you think it was different, 685 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 3: it's a sympathy thing. 686 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 2: I don't think he ever had an intention of killing himself. 687 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: In the initial hours after the Murdochs were found deb 688 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: After Maggie and Paul were found dead, I was on 689 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 2: the phone with one of their family members, because at 690 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 2: that time we didn't even know if it was murder suicide. 691 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 2: All we knew were Maggie and Paul were dead and 692 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 2: that was it. And I remember asking him do you 693 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 2: think it's murder suicide? And he said, nobody in this 694 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 2: family kills themselves. Wow, And that has always stuck with me. 695 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 2: It's the Murdoch attitude, the especially Alex. He's a classic narcissist. 696 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: I don't think he would ever take his own life 697 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 2: or even think about doing that. I think again, it 698 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 2: was a manipulation tactic for sympathy, which he has a 699 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:27,959 Speaker 2: track record of doing. 700 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 3: Okay, so this does not work, this ploy, and he 701 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 3: ends up going to trial and we know the end 702 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 3: of this. 703 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: He ends up going to prison. 704 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 3: And yet the story continues to drain our lives. 705 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: If you choose to dig into it. What do you 706 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: think the moral is for this story? 707 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 3: And I already know you're going to say, there's a 708 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 3: gazillion of them, so pick your top. What do we 709 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 3: learn about us from the Murdoch dynasty in its fall? 710 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 4: What do we learn. 711 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest lessons in all of 712 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 2: this is that this is what happens when you don't 713 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 2: speak up against evil and just let it happen. Not 714 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 2: to place blame on people in Hampton County, but they 715 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 2: operated just in fear of this family for so long 716 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 2: and were just so terrified to say anything. And I 717 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 2: think if you see something, say something, speak up, get 718 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 2: it out there. The Murdochs had control over this entire 719 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 2: area for so long, but they did not know how 720 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 2: to fight social media. 721 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 4: They weren't prepared for that. 722 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 2: They weren't prepared for people speaking up and telling their 723 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 2: dirty secrets online. And I think that another oh a 724 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 2: million lessons in this. With Alex Murdoch, he was a 725 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 2: man who was just allowed to do things because of 726 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 2: the status of his family, and nobody ever questioned why. 727 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 2: And also no one ever questioned, or a few people 728 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 2: did his motives and intentions behind things. They just he 729 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 2: looked like a dad to everybody, so people and he 730 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 2: was very nice to everyone. He was very polite to everyone. 731 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 2: He was seen around town escorting old ladies with their 732 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 2: groceries or whatever like. He played the part of night 733 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 2: of a nice guy really well, and it fooled a 734 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 2: lot of people. So the lesson there that I've seen 735 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 2: is to really question how well you know someone and 736 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 2: why you think that they have a character willing to 737 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,720 Speaker 2: stand up for Because a lot of people initially stood 738 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: up for Alex and said, no way he could have 739 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 2: done this, but we A big lesson is you don't 740 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 2: You really don't actually know. A lot of people are 741 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 2: and a lot of people, unfortunately are living double lives 742 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 2: in the ways that Alex Murdoch is. And I think 743 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 2: the biggest lesson is for people, especially journalists, to keep 744 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 2: digging at stories and what can happen if he just 745 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 2: keep trying and pulling its strings and they also this 746 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 2: is a story that shows how important journalism is and 747 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 2: how sacred our profession is, and how important it can be, 748 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 2: and how it can really change the course of so 749 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 2: many different things. When we first started investigating this, people 750 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 2: were constantly saying, well, the Murdocks get away with everything, 751 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 2: and that's just how the way that it always is. Well, 752 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 2: Alex Murdoch was convicted of murder and a lot has 753 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 2: changed in the low Country since the boat crash, and 754 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 2: so I think that it's important for people to know 755 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 2: that things can change and it doesn't have to say 756 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 2: the same. 757 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: If you love historical true. 758 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 3: Crime stories, check out the audio versions of my books 759 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 3: The Ghost Club, All That Is Wicked, and American Sherlock 760 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 3: and Don't Forget. There are twelve seasons of my historical 761 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 3: true crime podcast, Tenfold More Wicked right here in this 762 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 3: podcast feed, scroll back and give them a listen if 763 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 3: you haven't already. This has been an exactly right production. 764 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 3: Our senior producer is Alexis a Morosi. Our associate producer 765 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 3: is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed by John Bradley. 766 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 3: Curtis heath is our composer. Artwork by Nick Toga. Executive 767 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 3: produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgariff and Danielle Kramer. Follow 768 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 3: Wicked Words on Instagram at tenfold More Wicked and on 769 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 3: Facebook at Wicked Words Pod.