WEBVTT - Part Two: Lead Belly: How a Man Named Huddie Ledbetter Beat Everyone Who Tried to Keep Him Down

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello ed, Welcome to cool people did cool stuff and

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<v Speaker 2>or people who are pretty cool and maybe kind of

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<v Speaker 2>normal but had amazing adventures and dealt with a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of bullshit and kind of did amazing things. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 2>Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest today is problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi.

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<v Speaker 3>What up, man, I'm here to body roll. You know

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<v Speaker 3>what I'm saying to me? Something good. I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>why I popped in my head not even video.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, that' what's that video? But Sophie and I

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<v Speaker 2>got to watch, and that's what matters.

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed it.

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<v Speaker 2>Sophie's also here. Sophie's our producer. Hi, Sophie sub So.

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<v Speaker 2>We are on part two of a two parter on

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<v Speaker 2>Hooey ledbetter better known as led Belly. Lots of arguments

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<v Speaker 2>about the whether or not there's a space in there.

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<v Speaker 2>The problem is is that everyone was like mistreating his memory,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it like weirdly matters that, Like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's like, no, why do you keep changing the way

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<v Speaker 2>that my name fucking is?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Let me live. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But where we last left, he's in prison for probably

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<v Speaker 2>self defense, uh.

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<v Speaker 3>And then trying to get out, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Which there's a couple countries where it's legal to try

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<v Speaker 2>and break out of prison, because they're like, well, that

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense. Someone's holding you in a cage.

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<v Speaker 3>Why would you not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's natural at humid it's our job to not let

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<v Speaker 2>you succeed. We can't tell you don't try and get

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<v Speaker 2>food when you're hungry or whatever, which I mean, actually

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<v Speaker 2>that's the entire basis of laws. You can't just go

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<v Speaker 2>get food when you're hungry. But the United States is

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<v Speaker 2>not one of those.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, oh man, when you are shown a better way,

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<v Speaker 3>how it's just so obvious, like obviously you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>try to escape. Yeah, why would we outlaw the natural

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<v Speaker 3>forces of self? Of course you're going to try to

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<v Speaker 3>do that, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And even in those countries, it's illegal to hold a

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<v Speaker 2>guard hostage while you're doing it, right, like if you

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<v Speaker 2>shoot somebody, you know, But if you're like digging a tunnel.

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<v Speaker 2>I think in Mexico is one of these countries, they're

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<v Speaker 2>just like, well, that's not against the laway's just gotta

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<v Speaker 2>stop you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh well duh yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's like it almost makes it more like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>we're just on opposite teams. We're trying to solve this.

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<v Speaker 3>It is what it is, Yeah, I mean, and it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean he got us, Like, what are we gonna do? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we got us, right of katchoo. Yeah, he always.

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<v Speaker 2>Gets himself out of prison, but the way he's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>do it next is even more fucking wild. That's my teaser.

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<v Speaker 2>So prison was a nightmare in the United States during

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<v Speaker 2>World War One. I'm sure that's the only period in

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<v Speaker 2>which it was a nightmare. Yeah, And prisoners were worked

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<v Speaker 2>extra hard on the prison farm and everyone is getting

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<v Speaker 2>whipped left and right. I can't remember. I think at

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<v Speaker 2>this point they've gotten rid of the convict ly scene

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<v Speaker 2>program where they just like literally rent out the convicts

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<v Speaker 2>to different like plantations. So what they do instead, they're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not allowed to do that. We make the prison

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<v Speaker 2>a plantation. Often the prison farms are literally on old

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<v Speaker 2>plantations where people are enslaved. Sheees. So he was as

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<v Speaker 2>good of a worker as he could be. He's very canny.

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<v Speaker 2>Whenever he's like being nice to people being shitty to him,

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<v Speaker 2>it's because he's fucking thinking about it, you know. And

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<v Speaker 2>he gets away with a lot that should be gotten

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<v Speaker 2>away with based on white people being idiots and thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that he's just actually like very meek to them or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh huh, he's a good worker to avoid getting whipped,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he ran for it. This isn't the way

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<v Speaker 2>he gets himself out of jail. They catch him with

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<v Speaker 2>dogs in a nearby lake and they whip him so

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<v Speaker 2>badly he couldn't work for weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>Great.

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<v Speaker 2>Meanwhile, reform groups led by women's organizations and unions were

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<v Speaker 2>doing as much research and journalism and outreach about them.

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<v Speaker 2>There's like the whole activist movement to stop this prison

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<v Speaker 2>farm thing. So they turn out some of the first

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<v Speaker 2>statistics to show how racist the prison system was. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the oldest statistic I've found about this. Sixteen percent

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<v Speaker 2>of Texas at the time was black. Forty six percent

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<v Speaker 2>of its prisoners were black, so you know, three times

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<v Speaker 2>more likely. Yeah, and they get a new governor and

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<v Speaker 2>he's a bit of a reformer, but in the way

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<v Speaker 2>where like, well, this guy's probably a Republican, but you

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<v Speaker 2>know how like sometimes democrats are like you're like, ah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're doing really good, and then somehow almost

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<v Speaker 2>worse than the other side. The new governor, this reformer,

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<v Speaker 2>he runs on being tough but fair. He is tough

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<v Speaker 2>on crime. He's one of the first American politicians to

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<v Speaker 2>run on being like I'm tough on crime.

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<v Speaker 1>Ew yeah, yeah, great.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like this guy. Yeah, but his whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>is that he wants better conditions in prison, and so

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<v Speaker 2>he would come by and inspect the prisons to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure everyone's entreated. Sort of Okay, they don't even do

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<v Speaker 2>that now.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know.

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<v Speaker 2>I try to do it at ice facilities and they

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<v Speaker 2>get fucking tear gas.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's almost like I hate that this is

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<v Speaker 3>coming out of my mouth, but it's like, okay, for what,

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<v Speaker 3>you're gonna go and see this ice facility, see what

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<v Speaker 3>we already know I know, and then what.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say. There are a bunch of activist causes

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<v Speaker 2>in the past that look like that to me, where

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what do you doing? Like this one where

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<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, we're gonna find all the statistics about

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<v Speaker 2>this prison. I'm like, yeah, but is it gonna change anything?

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it does. We covered the gay Irish Knight who

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<v Speaker 2>helped stop the Belgian king fucking killing everybody, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think the Congo and that was because of all of

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<v Speaker 2>these groups getting together and just like straight up doing

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<v Speaker 2>the like numbers where they're like, well, I went around

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<v Speaker 2>and I met this many guys who had their hands

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<v Speaker 2>cut off. So I guess they're lying to you when

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<v Speaker 2>they say no one's getting their hands cut off, you know. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So in a weird way, I feel that way when

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<v Speaker 2>I see people go to the ice facilities and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you doing to fucking shut it down?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? How you go to so what are we doing guys?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, So the governor goes to go inspect this prison.

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<v Speaker 2>He goes a couple times, and he meets Leadbetter several

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<v Speaker 2>times because I guess he still has his guitar in prison.

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<v Speaker 3>That's funny. The prison was like, well, we're not animals, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, he's an incredible musician. You got to give

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<v Speaker 3>the guy his guitar. It's like one of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Worst times in places to be in prison in the

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<v Speaker 2>fucking history, and people are dying like every fucking day,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but he.

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<v Speaker 2>Could still have his guitar.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really good. It's always like we'd be going against

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<v Speaker 3>God in nature if we don't get it. Guys.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's kind of the deal. Yeah, and so

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<v Speaker 2>he plays songs for the governor every time he goes.

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<v Speaker 2>The Governor's like, oh, that guy is a guitar. He's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna play for me, which is very like render on

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<v Speaker 2>the Caesar. What is Caesar's or.

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<v Speaker 3>You know it really is. And also it's a way

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<v Speaker 3>for the warden to kind of flex, like to show

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<v Speaker 3>off his goods. He's like, man, we got this guy,

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<v Speaker 3>Oh the bridge of Governor's come in, He's gonna play

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<v Speaker 3>for you. Yeah, come here, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, and just totally different than slavery times.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally Yeah. I was trying not to say like

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<v Speaker 3>show off in words, trying to be kind to the glue,

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<v Speaker 3>but like, I mean, that's what you're doing, like come

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<v Speaker 3>dance for us. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, And like later we're going to get to how

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<v Speaker 2>everyone was calling honey the N word the whole fucking time,

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<v Speaker 2>and like including the people who are like supposedly on

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<v Speaker 2>his side and all the shit, of course, and then

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<v Speaker 2>like writing fake attributions claiming he's saying it all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>But like later in his life, when after he died,

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<v Speaker 2>people are like he talked about how he hated how

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<v Speaker 2>that word sounded in his mouth.

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<v Speaker 3>He never said it yeah, and you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know he was a drunk gambler. I don't know. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>he did somebody, but he he wasn't a big fan

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<v Speaker 2>of it, very least.

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<v Speaker 3>YEA.

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<v Speaker 2>So he plays for the governor, but he's fucking smart.

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<v Speaker 2>He plays some classics like Midnight Special, and he also

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<v Speaker 2>sings a song that's basically hey, Governor, you there right,

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<v Speaker 2>specifically by name Governor Nef pardoned me.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, hey, man, I've never heard this song. Sounds like, yeah, man,

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like what it's so crazy. There's already a

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<v Speaker 3>song about me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm famous.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm famous.

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<v Speaker 2>Yah.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey sing that song about me again?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It quotes the Bible verses about like you need to

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<v Speaker 2>forgive people their trespasses so that God can't forgive your trespasses.

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<v Speaker 2>Got him, and then has the lines, please Governor Nef,

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<v Speaker 2>let me go back home. Please Governor Nef, be good

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<v Speaker 2>and kind have mercy on my great long time. And

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<v Speaker 2>the one that's quoted the most is if I had you,

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<v Speaker 2>Governor Nef, like you got me, I'd wake up in

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<v Speaker 2>the morning and I'd set you free.

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<v Speaker 3>Ah got him, so just beautifully on this guitar.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so Governor ne F even though he like

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<v Speaker 2>was like nicer, right, he actually pardoned fewer people than

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<v Speaker 2>the like more chaotic aggressive governors before. But as a

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<v Speaker 2>lame duck his last day of fucking thing when he's

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<v Speaker 2>writing out his pardons, he pardons led Better for writing

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<v Speaker 2>a fucking good song about him.

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<v Speaker 3>Day got him. So he breaks down a prison say, hey, man,

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<v Speaker 3>it was a really good song man. Yeah, hey, he

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<v Speaker 3>wrote a song about me. It's it's almost like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>you could pull on Trump to be like, well, you

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<v Speaker 3>wrote a song about me. You told you wrote a

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<v Speaker 3>song about me. I gotta let him go.

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<v Speaker 2>That would literally work on Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>I really feel like it would that I can't. He

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<v Speaker 3>did write a song about me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean you see it in like any halfway

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<v Speaker 2>decent analysis of like ye oldie racism times in the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century different than ye oldie racist times in the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty first century, how like black people have to pretend

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<v Speaker 2>to be nice to white people in order to the game. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is the game played at like the highest

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<v Speaker 2>fucking level.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, so brilliant, so brilliant.

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<v Speaker 2>And he also probably meant that shit about like actually

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<v Speaker 2>we're supposed to forgive each other, like everyone talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Him later was like he really believed that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he would fuck people up, but like he mostly

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<v Speaker 2>de escalated fights, you know. Yeah, And so how do

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<v Speaker 2>he got out? And he went to Louisiana. He's in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck, he's in Texas and Louisiana. Various points. I

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes get them mixed up when he's in prison when

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<v Speaker 2>but he goes back right across the Texas line. He

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<v Speaker 2>grew up right across the Texas line and then moved

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<v Speaker 2>right across from the Louisiana line when he moved to

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<v Speaker 2>Texas as a little kid. He didn't move very far.

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<v Speaker 2>And he worked alongside Booker T. Washington in the oil

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<v Speaker 2>industry for a while. Whoa just as a random I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think they have any like great conversation. Like nothing

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<v Speaker 2>changes here, but like, yeah, he worked as a maintenance

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<v Speaker 2>worker and Washington was a truck driver.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was gonna say, but like, you know, we're

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<v Speaker 3>just we're seeing them so many years down the road

0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.040
<v Speaker 3>in history. But like there's probably a lot of interactions

0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:46.840
<v Speaker 3>between very you know, notable black people in just in

0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:48.479
<v Speaker 3>terms of living and surviving.

0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.560
<v Speaker 2>No, totally. And also like both are very political in

0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:56.400
<v Speaker 2>very very different ways right, Yeah, yeah, but like part

0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of a similar culture and influencing each other, you know, totally.

0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.680
<v Speaker 2>And he's playing shows and whenever he play shows, he

0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.440
<v Speaker 2>packs the house. He has another kid with another woman

0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.679
<v Speaker 2>who soon married someone else, but once again, he acknowledged

0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.360
<v Speaker 2>the kid as his, and that kid took the name

0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.960
<v Speaker 2>led Better and then he dated someone else and they

0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:19.160
<v Speaker 2>filed around on her. And one day, he's forty years old,

0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.240
<v Speaker 2>he's walking through town and he sees the Salvation Army

0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Band playing and it's all white people playing for all

0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.320
<v Speaker 2>white people. And there's a million versions of this story.

0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.400
<v Speaker 2>There's no particular reasonab believe any of them. I'm going

0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.760
<v Speaker 2>to do my best. He goes in and he dances

0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.600
<v Speaker 2>in the crowd anyway, even though he's a black man,

0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.720
<v Speaker 2>he's not supposed to be dancing on the street for

0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:41.520
<v Speaker 2>a white band.

0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, you guys, your methodist, you should be all

0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.400
<v Speaker 3>right with this. Yeah, sorry, And.

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.160
<v Speaker 2>A white guy prop picks a fight with him. A

0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.400
<v Speaker 2>white guy is like, you need to fucking stop. But

0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a kid that he'd known since they were little.

0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:57.240
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.520
<v Speaker 2>And other people are like, actually, that particular white man

0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't give him shit at all. I think he did.

0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.199
<v Speaker 2>I think the white man, yeah, gave him shit. Need

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.160
<v Speaker 2>to get the fuck out of here. So he cuts

0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the white man and he goes to jail again.

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I am reading so much into this story,

0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:22.160
<v Speaker 3>but you add on top of segregation. And then if

0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.800
<v Speaker 3>you know this is a guy you've known since you

0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.920
<v Speaker 3>was kids, you know, when this man walks in, he

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.760
<v Speaker 3>is the most talented by miles in everyone in here, Yeah,

0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, which probably means you're a better dancer than

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 3>all of us. And I've been dealing with this shit

0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:39.160
<v Speaker 3>my whole life.

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.120
<v Speaker 2>And the white women might be looking at him, and.

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.080
<v Speaker 3>The white women are gonna be look, you bag every

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 3>event you go, and you bag a chick, and it's

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.839
<v Speaker 3>just like leave some crumbs for the rest of us,

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 3>you know. And I'm like, this is the one space

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.320
<v Speaker 3>since I'm really not in any way better than you

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.200
<v Speaker 3>and anything, but at least in this room, yeah, where

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 3>you're not allowed a loud give me something, you know.

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm like reading all that into that, but I could

0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 3>totally see it.

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 2>No, no, I I believe it. And so they take

0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 2>him a jail and he is almost lynched. A white

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 2>mob storms the jail and only those brave sheriffs hold

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>them at bay. What a head fuck to be a

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.440
<v Speaker 2>racist white cop in the South who believes in law

0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>and order, and you're like all of the other racist

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:27.559
<v Speaker 2>white cops in the South would let you lynch him,

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.680
<v Speaker 2>but not me. I stand for something, which is him

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.480
<v Speaker 2>getting beat to death in prison.

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 3>We get to beat him fair and square. Yeah, you

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 3>gotta follow the law. Yeah okay.

0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's like they're still the better white person, you know,

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 2>like a yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, Like, oh god, the

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.360
<v Speaker 2>racist white cop is the better person in this story.

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 3>You have the moral high ground, like somehow or another,

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 3>It's like Iran right now, somehow Iran has the moral

0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.199
<v Speaker 3>high ground. I don't know how you did that, but yeah.

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I hate that regime so much. But watching fucking America

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 2>fail at invading them, you're like, look, that's funny. I

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.120
<v Speaker 2>know it has worldwide ramifications, and I just hate the

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Iranian regimes. Yeah, I hate the American one too, Yes,

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 2>but it's funny.

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 4>Objectively evil, like objectively evil regime that you have just

0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 4>somehow or another made me cheer for because you're so

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 4>inept yea.

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, and so honey, led better he's back in prison,

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 5>just as the Great Depression hits and it's now while

0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 5>in prison and he starts getting famous at a new level.

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>But do you know what makes products and services? I

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 2>have no good transition here, oh man, it's the products

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.760
<v Speaker 2>and services that make the show. To support the show.

0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 2>They they have products and services, probably actually a lot

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:07.200
<v Speaker 2>of them, probably just podcasts, but here they are Andrew back. So,

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 2>in case anyone missed it learning about American history, you

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 2>can't do slavery in the United States thanks to the

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 2>thirteenth Amendment except for that tiny, little, tiny loophole in

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>the thirteenth Amendment quote except as punishment for a crime

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 2>whereof the party shaw have been duly convicted. So the

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.440
<v Speaker 2>South moved quickly to incarcerate black people, mostly black men,

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 2>like after Civil War and especially Jim Crow era, to

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>get them to work for free, doing all the most

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 2>dangerous work. And this was explicit the same way people

0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 2>are like, well, the slavery was about Like, no, if

0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 2>you just fucking listen to the Confederates, they will tell you.

0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was about this is about states rights, all right. Well,

0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 3>let me ask this Confederate soldier, what are we doing

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 3>this for? Slavery homie, like this is.

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Just yeah, yeah, I want to own that guy.

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 3>The natural state of beings is the white man is superior,

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 3>and the the United States government is trying to go

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 3>against nature. So that's why we fight.

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah. The number of times are like this

0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 2>is for the Anglo Saxons, and you're like, man, they're

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 2>even doing the old time e racism. Yeah.

0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, here's the thing, bro.

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. A delegate to the National Prison Association meeting of

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty three put it like this, Before the war,

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 2>we owned the negroes, but these convicts, we don't own them.

0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 2>One dies, get another.

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 2>They're talking about how it's better, this is better.

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and thew we get to say, but they criminals don't.

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:44.480
<v Speaker 3>So it's not our bed.

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so they would build prisons directly on plantations.

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 2>After the Civil War, the South, you know, tried for

0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 2>some liberty with the Black Codes, but by eighteen seventy

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 2>seven reconstruction was over. Federal troops Withdrew Jim Crow laws

0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>took over. Almost no black men were left and off

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 2>by nineteen hundred, despite more than two thousand black politicians

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 2>having served in the South before that.

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Okay, there's a word that you passed over, which

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty sure the listeners know. But I always want

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 3>to like like put a point on this. That part

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 3>of Reconstruction was the military. Yeah, had to come to

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 3>the States to say, guys, you have to stop doing

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.680
<v Speaker 3>this to black people. We're gonna watch y'all to make Okay,

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.199
<v Speaker 3>are you guys gonna be are you cool now? Are

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.639
<v Speaker 3>you guys gonna be cool now? Are you gonna be

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 3>cool now?

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.680
<v Speaker 3>All right, all right, we're right of here.

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.959
<v Speaker 2>And the second they leave, yeah, which is so funny

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>because like the South was fighting for slavery and the

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 2>North was fighting for abolition, and the North wasn't not racist, no, right,

0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and so like the federal troops still probably most of

0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>them thought they were better than black people. Yeah, of course,

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 2>but they still were like, we're going to invade the

0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 2>South and occupy it because that's how bad you've been

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 2>to black people. Yes, it's that's how bad. Yeah.

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.639
<v Speaker 3>Again, I don't even like these people. Yeah, but like

0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 3>your psycho, like, you have to stop this.

0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I was reading about how the reason that England moved

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:19.760
<v Speaker 2>away from public floggings and public hangings in England. Is

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that the English were like, oh, we kind of look

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 2>like Southern Confederates when we do.

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this kind of making us look like are we

0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.760
<v Speaker 3>the baddies? Are we the baddies? We kind of looked

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:32.159
<v Speaker 3>like this, that's so funny.

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:40.120
<v Speaker 2>And the president of Louisiana's eighteen ninety eight Constitutional Convention

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 2>said that they disenfranchised black votes to quote perpetuate the

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 2>supremacy of the Anglo Saxon race in Louisiana.

0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Hey, why are you guys doing this? Uh so we

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 3>can remain supreme?

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, much like the only way to be the

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 2>halfway decent dancer in the room is to not let

0:18:58.800 --> 0:18:59.399
<v Speaker 2>black people in.

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.199
<v Speaker 2>The only way that the fucking white race can be

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>superior is by not letting anyone else play.

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally. Well, if they have equal rights, yeah, won't

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 3>get to be supreme. Yeah, which is natural? Which is nature? Absolutely, Yeah, totally.

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like the same as like not the same as.

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>But like, you know, if the gender binary is so natural,

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:24.800
<v Speaker 2>why do you have to make so many laws about it?

0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, like.

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or why women can't be heads of state because

0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 3>they're gonna get emotional and start a war and I'm like, ah, well,

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 3>since they have not been heads of state, that meant

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.240
<v Speaker 3>that every war we've had. Yeah, where's your data?

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Like? Yeah? Also like where those people just like not raised?

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Like overall, when I think about people who get angry

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>while their parents and are scary, more of them are men.

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 3>It's almost always yeah, like I was almost always. Yeah,

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't understand what you say it like that that

0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.639
<v Speaker 3>the ladies gonna get emotional. Okay, so oh, let's just

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.520
<v Speaker 3>use your binary. What happens when a lady gets emotional,

0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 3>he cries. What happens when a man gets emotional, he

0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 3>burns shit down? So I don't understand what data points

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 3>you use it to make this. Yeah.

0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's only logic that works for itself. Like you

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.440
<v Speaker 2>have to be like, I'm going to make the Anglo

0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Saxon race the most important, and therefore everything else is justifiable. Yeah,

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.119
<v Speaker 2>and like yeah, they're really fucking explicit about it, and

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I wish it had changed.

0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:31.080
<v Speaker 3>But yeah.

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.880
<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen thirty, when Ledbetter went to prison in Louisiana,

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 2>Louisiana's governor Huey P. Long Junior, this guy is weird.

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I've covered him a little bit on the show before

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 2>it pops up a lot. This guy is like a

0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 2>progressive fascist.

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, he came up recently in Bastards too. Is this

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the Kingfish guy?

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:55.960
<v Speaker 2>I think so.

0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he came up recently in Bastards as like a

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.359
<v Speaker 1>side character. He's fucking weird. We're gonna have to do

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>a full bTB on him one day.

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>No, that makes sense.

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:07.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, progressive fascists like.

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tell me more crazy. Yeah, the New Deal didn't

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 2>go far enough. He's critical of FDR.

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he hates FDR.

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 2>But he wants to run Louisiana like a kingdom with

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 2>him at top. And so he ran the state like

0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:23.720
<v Speaker 2>a dictatorship.

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.720
<v Speaker 2>And he was absolutely illegally continuing to rent out convicts

0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 2>to private interests for labor, despite that having been banned

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 2>decades prior. And he then gets assassinate not led Beetter,

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.920
<v Speaker 2>but the Quep Long he gets assassinated nineteen thirty five

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.119
<v Speaker 2>by like a judge's son. I have had to research

0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:42.640
<v Speaker 2>this man for the show so many times, and every

0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.679
<v Speaker 2>single time, I'm like, I need my three hours of

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.600
<v Speaker 2>you and Robert talking about him before I'm going to

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 2>really be able to understand him.

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:50.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, well, if we ever do him, you can

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:51.760
<v Speaker 1>be our guest for that.

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh that would be fun. Yeah, because he keeps coming up,

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:55.160
<v Speaker 2>he keeps coming up.

0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.840
<v Speaker 1>He's super vocal about how much he dislikes what FDR

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.399
<v Speaker 1>in the New Deal, and he pops up all the time.

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, progressive fascism. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's really interesting.

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Don't let the right wing hear this though, because they're like,

0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 2>we told you it's all that National Socialist Party.

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah okay, but yeah, and he looks exactly like you're

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:16.440
<v Speaker 1>imagining him.

0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. The name Huey P. Long is a name that's

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 3>just like it's one of those names that are just

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:23.240
<v Speaker 3>kind of in the air.

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, Like when you said it, I was like,

0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 3>I know that guy. Then I was like, wait, do

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:28.440
<v Speaker 3>you want to know that guy? Yeah?

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 2>No, And I was like when it came up, I

0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, yeah this guy again.

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:31.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>I've had to do like a paragraph worth of this

0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:35.880
<v Speaker 2>guy like three or four times on this show.

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Look at this guy.

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's absolutely Huey Long. Yea.

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.080
<v Speaker 2>He is wearing a double breasted pin striped jacket.

0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.840
<v Speaker 3>Both his hands up like he's saying so like a.

0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, fucking side part ass, bald man, side part head ass.

0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Oh, it's so funny.

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 1>That he's a great insult that more people need to use.

0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, side part head ass, that's a great.

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 2>So Ledbetter had a rough time in prison once again.

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Ledbetter not a fan of being in prison. He's going

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 2>to get himself out again in yet another way. One

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 2>time he gets ten lashes for laziness and then fifteen

0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 2>lashes for impudence. But the guy who's doing this is

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 2>this like terrible man whose name I'm not going to bother,

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.639
<v Speaker 2>including this, who just killed a ton of prisoners by

0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:29.879
<v Speaker 2>beating them to death and then blaming it on sunstroke.

0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 2>And he was on a work crew in which three

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.119
<v Speaker 2>people died in one month. There's probably only ten twenty

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:40.280
<v Speaker 2>people on that work crew, you know. And so he's

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 2>like not having a good time in jail. And then

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.120
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen thirty three, a different kind of cruel master

0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:50.600
<v Speaker 2>that showed up to change his life. A guy, a

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 2>folklorist named John Lamox. He's a white man in his

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.359
<v Speaker 2>forties or fifties, and he has his seventeen year old kid,

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Allan Intel, and Alan is going to turn out all right.

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Alan is the one who's going to drop out of

0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>grad school in order to help this guy out later.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 2>But Alan as a teenager. This is the whole thing

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>about being a kid, as you're not complicit. But he

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.880
<v Speaker 2>starts off hanging out with his dad, his piece of shit.

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:20.439
<v Speaker 2>John is a folk song collector. Alan is later going

0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.160
<v Speaker 2>to do this in a less evil way. But John

0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Lamox is a fucking bastard racist. And I thought I

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.719
<v Speaker 2>was going to do episodes about Alan Lamox, but as

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I read more about the Ledbetter part of the story,

0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 2>I realized, I like, maybe next week with someone else,

0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to cover Alan Lamox. I needed to cover

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Howdy Ledbetter first.

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>So John Lamox, his father and uncle fought for the Confederacy,

0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and he also kind of bootstrapped himself. But like, if

0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 2>you read his biography, it talks about him basically bootstrapping himself.

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 2>If you read Ledbetter's biography, you learn that John's family

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 2>owned people and that's how they boostrapped themselves.

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.359
<v Speaker 3>I love these bootstrapping stories where it's it's like my

0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 3>dad gave me a meager loan of a million dollars, yeah,

0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:09.440
<v Speaker 3>and three people, yeah, and three humans that I inherited

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 3>and you know, and I went to work.

0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And John Lamox he's like a Texan. He was

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.480
<v Speaker 2>born in Louisiana, but he's moved over. God, everyone in

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.720
<v Speaker 2>the fucking story was born in Louisiana moved to Texas.

0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Many such cases.

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he wants to be an intellectual who's accepted. He

0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:29.239
<v Speaker 2>went to school for like one year at Harvard and

0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:32.240
<v Speaker 2>he's like really trying to be accepted. But he's obsessed

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 2>with folklore but like the American West and cowboys and

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 2>cowboy songs, and by that he means white people. Yeah,

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.919
<v Speaker 2>until he realizes that black music, race music, as it

0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>was often called YEP, was far more popular and interesting

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:47.879
<v Speaker 2>to people, partly because it's better music.

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Frankly, here's that.

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Partly also because it's exotification and being like ooh the

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:55.639
<v Speaker 2>scary other you know. Yeah, And so he and his

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.080
<v Speaker 2>son Alan were traveling around prisons to find black people

0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:03.360
<v Speaker 2>willing to record songs for him. And whenever you read

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:05.960
<v Speaker 2>the like cliffs notes versions of these stories, they're like, oh,

0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>they really help bring people's music to light. These folk

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:14.159
<v Speaker 2>music finders, they copyright the music.

0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 3>Damn.

0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 2>They go around. There's this rush happening at this time,

0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:20.800
<v Speaker 2>He's not the only one doing this. There's this rush

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to mine black culture and stake acclaim in it, stick

0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:28.520
<v Speaker 2>a legal flag in it, and get the royalties to

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it forever.

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:34.280
<v Speaker 3>Dang. I mean, part of that made my stomach hurt.

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:38.800
<v Speaker 3>Part of me is like there's no new ideas. I mean,

0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:44.120
<v Speaker 3>like there's just the music industry dude, like yeah, and

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:46.200
<v Speaker 3>then it's like I will pay you one hundred dollars

0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.800
<v Speaker 3>to play the song and then record it. Yeah, record it.

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:51.439
<v Speaker 3>We'll pay for your day, you know, and then you

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:56.639
<v Speaker 3>record the song. And then I mean it's obviously not

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.200
<v Speaker 3>the same because I'm not in jail, but I have

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 3>early on I did what's called a work for hire,

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:10.240
<v Speaker 3>which is you know, right, no, and then when I

0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 3>tell you that thing is in the twenty millions of

0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:19.439
<v Speaker 3>like of plays. Yeah, I mean I've walked into freaking

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 3>conferences with my face on a ten foot banner. Fuck

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.240
<v Speaker 3>because I just I didn't own it, you know, and

0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 3>it's like you know what you're doing.

0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it has a direct line to slavery colonization totally,

0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.639
<v Speaker 2>which I I could have made that comparison in my head,

0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, But looking at this, you're like, oh, this

0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 2>is the same mindset by often the literal same people.

0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.840
<v Speaker 2>And this is one of the most basically colonization things

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I've ever read about that isn't literal colonization of land.

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's exactly it. I'm gonna go find find it, yeah,

0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 3>steal it. Yeah, take all the rights for it, and

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:02.680
<v Speaker 3>you don't matter now, right.

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 2>And so they show up to this prison and they

0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 2>are looking for musicians, and here is this regionally renowned man,

0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:13.159
<v Speaker 2>the King of the twelve String, who knows hundreds and

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of songs and wrote a lot of them. He

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 2>literally sang his way to freedom once before literally, and

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.560
<v Speaker 2>so basically Hutt he's like, if I kiss this white

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.679
<v Speaker 2>man's ass, I might get out of prison. And ironically,

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 2>that's not how he gets himself out of prison. But

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 2>John Lomax is going to pretend that that's what happened

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:33.159
<v Speaker 2>for years, being like, this man knows me everything, I

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.040
<v Speaker 2>got him out of prison. But that's like not even

0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 2>how he gets out of prison. No, they show up,

0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:40.280
<v Speaker 2>they record a few songs, and the Lomaxes leave, and

0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.479
<v Speaker 2>John does not appeal on his behalf. He's like, oh,

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 2>if I record some songs they might try and get

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 2>me out. And John like literally, he's like, we have

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>a lot of his letters to his wife and they're

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 2>all just wildly racist, just like really explicitly. And he's like,

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I thought for a moment about helping get this man

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:57.400
<v Speaker 2>out of prison and writing for clemency on his part,

0:28:57.440 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 2>and I could probably do it. But could you imagine

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:06.040
<v Speaker 2>him in the car with us, Uh, Like, what would

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:06.600
<v Speaker 2>people think?

0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, well, I mean clearly we're not gonna like

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:11.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean yeah.

0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:18.000
<v Speaker 2>And so instead of John appealing for Hoddy Howdy appeals

0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:22.640
<v Speaker 2>for Hodey Howey, does jail house lawyer shit to prove

0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:25.360
<v Speaker 2>there's all this, Like I read many many pages of this.

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:29.120
<v Speaker 2>It kind of boils down to he was pardoned in Texas,

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:34.040
<v Speaker 2>but that pardon hadn't been transported to Louisiana's like bureaucratic system.

0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:36.720
<v Speaker 2>So the way that he was sentenced in Louisiana was

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.320
<v Speaker 2>based on as if his previous conviction had like stood,

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and so he was able to say, like, you actually

0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.200
<v Speaker 2>need to reconsider my case in the following way. I

0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 2>should be up for parole, not I'm gonna be. You

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 2>got to pardon me, but I need to be up

0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 2>for Pearol sooner based on this, this and this. It's

0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>fucking smart and it's a slow way for him to

0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 2>get out of jail. Okay, Like literally you were talking

0:29:58.080 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>about earlier being like why am I still in jail?

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:01.719
<v Speaker 2>I proved all this stuff that's gonna happen to him

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:03.800
<v Speaker 2>for like a solid year. He's like, yeah, going to

0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:06.880
<v Speaker 2>have proven everything, and then he's just like yeah, while

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>the bureaucracy is slowly moving, he's like being whipped on

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 2>a fucking chain gang or what daily.

0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But the Lomaxes they want more out of this guy.

0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 2>They only recorded a few songs, and they like it's

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:21.080
<v Speaker 2>always presented as this thing where like then they had

0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 2>this great revelation they invented a new kind of recorder

0:30:24.040 --> 0:30:26.040
<v Speaker 2>so that they could better go exploit people, which makes

0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 2>me so sad. I love technology. I want technology to

0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.120
<v Speaker 2>do good things. Yeah, totally idea of a field recorder

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 2>or a brilliant idea. I love folk lore, so go

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:35.880
<v Speaker 2>around and record things if they weren't stealing them.

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for the purpose of like yeah, god exactly, not

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 3>for the culture, which is what both music was supposed

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 3>to be. Like I thought this was for the culture.

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so they invent basically I'm

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:48.880
<v Speaker 2>going to know more about this when I read the

0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>book on them. I started reading the book on them,

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's when I was like, fuck this. They invent

0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:57.719
<v Speaker 2>a recording machine that records directly on twelve inch aluminum discs. Okay,

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 2>and the whole thing. It's portable. It weighs more than

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:02.960
<v Speaker 2>five hundred pounds, it has one hundred and fifty pounds

0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>of batteries.

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 3>Great portable. Yeah.

0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 2>And so Huddy's like, all right, I will sing songs

0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 2>for you if you let me sing my dear Governor,

0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:16.680
<v Speaker 2>please pardon me song, and you put it in front

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 2>of the governor. And he also he's smart. He mentions

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.480
<v Speaker 2>his name on the tracks over and over again.

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 3>This song is sung by me. Yeah, my name is

0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 3>Lyd Billy. I owned this song because I wrote it. Yeah, yeah,

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:35.200
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He's fucking smart. Yeah, he records songs. It's unclear

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 2>that the Lomax has actually put that record in front

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:46.880
<v Speaker 2>of the governor. It's very likely that the reason Huddy

0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:51.240
<v Speaker 2>was released because of his own jailhouse lawyery. But John

0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Lomax is like for years. He's like, no, this man

0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:55.120
<v Speaker 2>knows me everything. I'm the one who got him out

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 2>of jail, of course, and John Lomax has promised Huddy

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>a job when he's out. He wont Houdey to basically

0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:04.120
<v Speaker 2>sell him his credibility in black spaces, to get the

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 2>best songs out of people. So like, you travel around

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.080
<v Speaker 2>with me, you go places that don't want me, and

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>you record them. I get the copy, right, not you?

0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally again, no new ideas.

0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but honey, as soon as he's out, the first

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:22.800
<v Speaker 2>thing he does, right before he went to jail, E've

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:26.480
<v Speaker 2>been dating this woman named Martha, and he loves Martha,

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Like this is the woman he stays with. He probably

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:30.680
<v Speaker 2>sleeps with other people, but this is the woman he

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:31.000
<v Speaker 2>stays with.

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:32.080
<v Speaker 3>That's his lady.

0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, And the first thing he does he gets

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:37.040
<v Speaker 2>out and he shows up at his girlfriend's house. He

0:32:37.080 --> 0:32:40.080
<v Speaker 2>figures how the fuck to get from like Louisiana to Texas.

0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:42.640
<v Speaker 2>He shows up in his cousin's car, rolls up. He

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:44.680
<v Speaker 2>sees her sitting on the porch and he's like, hey,

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:46.720
<v Speaker 2>you there, go inside and get Martha just to like

0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.680
<v Speaker 2>make a joke, and then they like cry and hug

0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and are very happy. And there's a lot of descriptions.

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Every time he reunites with Martha, he cries a lot.

0:32:57.640 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh, there's a side moment that I want to put

0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 3>a pin into. Is the thing that he shows up

0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:08.160
<v Speaker 3>in his cousin's car. Yeah, and okay, so follow me. Now,

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.880
<v Speaker 3>this is gonna wind a little bit, all right?

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 1>But oh really, is the story you're gonna tell? Wind

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:14.120
<v Speaker 1>a little bit?

0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh really? They're having before us? Where do you go?

0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:19.640
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy?

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Just just hearing about that now, whoa, it's so crazy.

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 3>I apologize. Man, it's just new to me too, new

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 3>to me too. The guy that wrote Project twenty twenty five.

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:36.800
<v Speaker 3>H his degree is in history and Afro studies.

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow, see a white man or black man, a.

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.080
<v Speaker 3>Very white man. We're talking about Project twenty twenty five? Yeah?

0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Wait are you talking about the guy who's

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:46.719
<v Speaker 1>the head of the Heritage Foundation.

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:47.479
<v Speaker 3>That's it.

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 2>He got a fucking degree in Afro studies.

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 3>He's got a green in history with the emphasis and

0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 3>Afro studies. And then his master thesis is about the

0:33:56.160 --> 0:34:01.040
<v Speaker 3>family structures of the African American families in Louisiana. Whoa,

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 3>and how they were able to use their families to

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 3>find liberations.

0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:07.080
<v Speaker 5>WHOA.

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.080
<v Speaker 3>And one of the ways he said is why I

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:12.360
<v Speaker 3>wanted to put a note on this. One of the

0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:17.239
<v Speaker 3>ways he said is that the black family was not

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:21.879
<v Speaker 3>a nuclear family. That the family is extended and this

0:34:21.920 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 3>is how we survived by having extended families, right.

0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Just also literally the better way to live literally.

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:34.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean like for tens of thousands of years, right, yeah, yeah,

0:34:34.400 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 3>and that we survived by organizing through third spaces. Yeah, okay,

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 3>no churches, picnics, barbecues, cookouts.

0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, playing music by the lake, yes, playing music

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:47.720
<v Speaker 2>by the lakes.

0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:52.160
<v Speaker 3>But literally, he said, their means of liberation was having

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 3>extended family. So for him to be like, oh I

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.759
<v Speaker 3>got here by my cousins, and why when you read

0:34:56.800 --> 0:34:58.800
<v Speaker 3>Project twenty twenty five, he's like, the cornerstone is the

0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 3>nuclear family. It's the father.

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Like did he switch teams or was he studying the enemy?

0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:06.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. It feels like he's studying the enemy,

0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 3>because I'm.

0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Gonna go with study the enemy based on the way

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I because he was at the RNC and I infiltrated

0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:15.680
<v Speaker 1>his party.

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is almost one to one everything you learned

0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 3>about liberation for black people you are undoing. Yeah, in

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.399
<v Speaker 3>Project twenty twenty five. It's the most bizarre.

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we have to figure out a way to means

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:34.120
<v Speaker 2>test like white people in African American studies classes and just.

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 3>Be like so, hey man, what are you doing here?

0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? What's your goal with this?

0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Like? Fuck, yeah, it's crazy.

0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 3>So just that little side note that he's like, oh no,

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 3>that's it's like, well, yeah, that's my family, my cousin,

0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:52.319
<v Speaker 3>I Benaji and my cousin gonna come get me. Yeah,

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 3>I need to check up on his lady. I use

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 3>my car. Yeah, Kevin Roberts, that's the head of the

0:35:58.440 --> 0:35:59.280
<v Speaker 3>Heritage Foundation.

0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I see her trans Foundation. Yeah, he was geeked

0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.239
<v Speaker 1>up at the RNC. Yes, there was no way to

0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.160
<v Speaker 1>get to him.

0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Fuck. Well, dark on that dark revelation. Let's have a

0:36:14.680 --> 0:36:18.240
<v Speaker 2>moment of meditation by listening to these products and services

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:25.080
<v Speaker 2>that support this podcast. And we're back. And while we

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:27.440
<v Speaker 2>were listening to the ads, we were making legally actionable

0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:31.640
<v Speaker 2>threats again and maybe you all were too. Anyway, And

0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.120
<v Speaker 2>so when he shows up, Martha has a job, she

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 2>works at a steam laundry, and he doesn't have a job,

0:36:36.920 --> 0:36:40.240
<v Speaker 2>so he does the actually good version of the unemployed boyfriend.

0:36:41.080 --> 0:36:44.799
<v Speaker 2>He spends his time there, his week's there, taking care

0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 2>of her house and being a good unemployed boyfriend. Like

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.160
<v Speaker 2>whenever she's at work, he's like doing all the chores

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:50.719
<v Speaker 2>and shit.

0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:51.080
<v Speaker 3>Got it.

0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 2>And he's trying to get in touch with John about

0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 2>this job, and he finally does. But here's the deal.

0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:00.840
<v Speaker 2>A job is where people give you to do work.

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 2>John Lomax did not pay, howe he led better?

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, at first I was about to, you know,

0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:13.240
<v Speaker 3>be like use him as an example, like, hey, fellas,

0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:16.799
<v Speaker 3>look just be reasonable with these ladies. Like that's reasonable. Like, look,

0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:19.160
<v Speaker 3>you ain't working right now, you're trying to work. Just

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:21.359
<v Speaker 3>take care of the crib, Like this is reasonable.

0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, nobody. He goes off and he joins John, and

0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>over and over again. John wrote about how he saved

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Hoddy and always kept writing about like and this man

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 2>is eternally grateful for me, and like promised to be

0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 2>my good and loyal servant for free forever and ever.

0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 2>No and shine his shoes, clean his clothes, drive his car,

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:46.600
<v Speaker 2>and in exchange. While they're off to go do this

0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 2>work together, he gets a dollar a day for food

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and a place to sleep. About thirty four dollars a

0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 2>day today. Wow, Because while they're traveling, Hodey can't stay

0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:57.759
<v Speaker 2>with John.

0:37:58.480 --> 0:37:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course not.

0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:01.680
<v Speaker 2>That's like a look little bit on, Like, there's no

0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:03.760
<v Speaker 2>hotel that's gonna take both of them in fucking Texas

0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:07.399
<v Speaker 2>at the time. But John likes it that way. I'm

0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:12.840
<v Speaker 2>willing to bet money. Yeah. Immediately, John Lomax is like,

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:14.799
<v Speaker 2>all right, I have this guy. He's gonna help me

0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 2>get into black spaces, but I'm also gonna fucking bring

0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:21.279
<v Speaker 2>him around as a I was gonna say a circus act,

0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:22.799
<v Speaker 2>but honestly kind of a zoo act.

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:24.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was like a zoo animal.

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:28.640
<v Speaker 2>And immediately John Lomax builds up the idea that he

0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 2>is working with a dangerous murderer. He says in an

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>interview that he asked Ledbetter what weapons he was carrying

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:41.640
<v Speaker 2>and was shown a big, long, scary knife. It was

0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:43.840
<v Speaker 2>a small pocket knife that he used as a guitar slide.

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:46.640
<v Speaker 2>That everyone carried a fucking pocket knife.

0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:49.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's normal. And also it don't help that he'd

0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:50.920
<v Speaker 3>been in jail three times.

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, he has murdered people well, no, he has

0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:57.400
<v Speaker 2>killed people. It is unknown whether or not he murdered anybody. Yeah,

0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:00.600
<v Speaker 2>but John made up this wonderful racist to change this

0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:03.439
<v Speaker 2>is uh maybe those raist thing I'll read on there

0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>right now. John was like, quote, whenever you decide you're

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna take my money in car, you won't have to

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:11.440
<v Speaker 2>use this knife on me. Just tell me what you

0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:13.880
<v Speaker 2>want and I'll give it to you without a struggle, Like,

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>don't hurt me, scary black man. Oh, And then a

0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:21.560
<v Speaker 2>crying hoodie said back, Oh, I guess I'm gonna read

0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:24.640
<v Speaker 2>it the way it's written. Please do please suh, don't

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.960
<v Speaker 2>talk that way. You got me out of the pen.

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.400
<v Speaker 2>As you a man, you won't ever have to tie

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.440
<v Speaker 2>your shoes again if you don't want to. I'll step

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:36.680
<v Speaker 2>in front of you. If ever anybody tries to shoot you,

0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:39.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm ready to die for you. Boss.

0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 3>Oh man green mild, magical black man to this our

0:39:45.320 --> 0:39:48.800
<v Speaker 3>tie bosh. Oh yes, no, massa good to me, massa

0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:53.279
<v Speaker 3>been good to me. Yeah. Yeah, that trow boy is

0:39:53.440 --> 0:39:58.360
<v Speaker 3>right on. Boy, oh man, it's odd. Look, this is

0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.839
<v Speaker 3>all the way down to the sand. Your Bullock movie,

0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 3>what's the movie about the football boy? Blind?

0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:03.400
<v Speaker 5>Side.

0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:05.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, this is blind Side. I haven't seen it. This

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.759
<v Speaker 3>is blind Side. It's the plot, big scary black man

0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:09.239
<v Speaker 3>from the hood.

0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, except the fact that they turned out that there

0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:14.879
<v Speaker 1>was like, hella fucked up shit going on with that movie.

0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Remember none of that was like yeah, yeah revision it

0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:18.560
<v Speaker 1>is history.

0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:22.799
<v Speaker 3>Well yeah, but that's the movie plot, you know, just

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.160
<v Speaker 3>again the magical black man. That's a trope, you know,

0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:28.880
<v Speaker 3>the magical black man who's no to Why is just

0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:32.359
<v Speaker 3>how's you massive being good to me? So like, oh,

0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:36.279
<v Speaker 3>he's a good he's a good white man. Yeah. Good.

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:41.960
<v Speaker 2>And it's probable that Hodey kissed Shawn's ass, but transparently

0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:43.799
<v Speaker 2>that was because if he did it, he probably didn't

0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 2>say it like that because later it's gonna be he's

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:50.399
<v Speaker 2>gonna be kind of willful. But yeah, the safest option in.

0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Front of him, he played a game.

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:55.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, And how fucking dumb do you have to

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:59.560
<v Speaker 2>be the fall for it? You fucking asshole? Fucking Harvard

0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:01.680
<v Speaker 2>asked mother, Yeah, how.

0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:04.280
<v Speaker 3>To look at this man and say, like, what party?

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:04.440
<v Speaker 4>You?

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.759
<v Speaker 3>Says Okay, when we walk into when we get into

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 3>bat and Rouge, Louisiana and we walk into this juke

0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:15.399
<v Speaker 3>joint where it's all black people and I'm your only

0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:19.440
<v Speaker 3>ticket in, Like, what makes you think I won't be like, Hey,

0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:20.759
<v Speaker 3>this white man tried to kill me.

0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:22.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally, Like.

0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 3>What makes you think I'm not gonna do that? Listen,

0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:28.440
<v Speaker 3>They're okay. So again another side note from probe, Oh

0:41:28.520 --> 0:41:32.280
<v Speaker 3>my god. So there was this organization, this nonprofit whatever

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:35.680
<v Speaker 3>that like is very white organization. And what they wanted

0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 3>to do was it turns out like the new president

0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:42.000
<v Speaker 3>is this you know, fluffy, kind of nice white man,

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:46.080
<v Speaker 3>but he's originally content. But this is Compton in the fifties,

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:47.759
<v Speaker 3>you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, that's ain't

0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 3>the Compton. I know, you don't see what I'm saying. Yeah, so,

0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:54.480
<v Speaker 3>and also I'm not from Compton, right south Central, you

0:41:54.520 --> 0:41:57.520
<v Speaker 3>know what I'm saying. Anyway, they wanted to do these

0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:02.480
<v Speaker 3>pieces of content where I would basically he's gonna fly

0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:04.960
<v Speaker 3>down to his old neighborhood and he wanted me to

0:42:05.000 --> 0:42:08.279
<v Speaker 3>interview him about kind of walking around you know, his

0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:11.120
<v Speaker 3>up bringing Compton to kind of like just basically for

0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:14.160
<v Speaker 3>me to be you know, led belly for this guy.

0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, the black man is gonna make it OK for

0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 2>the old neighborhood, yes, right where you're not from, but

0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:23.000
<v Speaker 2>he is, but yeah.

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.000
<v Speaker 3>You I don't even have to finish the story where

0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.279
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I was like, sir, Like when I

0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:29.520
<v Speaker 3>finally like responded, I remember I was talking about manager

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:31.640
<v Speaker 3>and then I was responding to the email. I was like,

0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:35.000
<v Speaker 3>first of all, I'm not from Compton. I'm from South Central,

0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:38.799
<v Speaker 3>But even if I was from Compton, I don't know

0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:39.879
<v Speaker 3>nobody over there.

0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 1>And it's the most las dude response.

0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 3>I can't even.

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I couldn't tell you the difference between those neighborhoods.

0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 2>I did a lot.

0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 3>First of all, they're many miles away from them, very

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:56.480
<v Speaker 3>far apart, very far apart. Number one and then number two.

0:42:56.640 --> 0:43:00.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, the Compton you talking about has been gone

0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:04.360
<v Speaker 3>for forty years, so I don't know what you're talking about.

0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:07.480
<v Speaker 3>The neighborhood you in even if I was from Confident,

0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:09.319
<v Speaker 3>that means I'm either from the east side of the

0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 3>west Side, which is Crip or blood, which means that

0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:15.200
<v Speaker 3>you might be from the wrong side that I'm from. Right,

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:17.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna walk down this like I don't know, I'm like,

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:21.359
<v Speaker 3>what what are you talking about and am I going

0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:23.920
<v Speaker 3>to cash in that card with the people that I

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:27.759
<v Speaker 3>do you think I'm a cash in this card for you?

0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:31.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm good your so what I'm saying like, but just

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 3>this this audacity of just like insert black dude here,

0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:40.200
<v Speaker 3>and you just want me to use my cultural like

0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:44.440
<v Speaker 3>it's first of all, they're non transferable number one. And

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, and even me saying I'm from South Central,

0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:50.200
<v Speaker 3>do you know the last time I've been on my

0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Grandma Street?

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:52.879
<v Speaker 2>Neither do I You.

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:55.399
<v Speaker 3>See what I'm saying, And I'm like, and even if

0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:59.280
<v Speaker 3>I did, I don't know them young dudes. Yeah, everybody

0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:04.239
<v Speaker 3>I know went to jail or are gronos. Now they

0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:05.080
<v Speaker 3>out the street.

0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:07.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's just like, but you're a black man and

0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 2>that's where black men live, so you'll be fine.

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:11.880
<v Speaker 3>We know you fine, you just want me to go totally.

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:16.400
<v Speaker 2>And once got offered a reality TV show and I

0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:18.759
<v Speaker 2>thought they were interviewing me about a documentary. They want

0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to do a documentary about anarchism. And I was like,

0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>all right, I'll do that. I'm down a talking head

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.040
<v Speaker 2>about this shit, you know, And they were like, well,

0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.160
<v Speaker 2>it's a docu series, and I was like, do you

0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.920
<v Speaker 2>mean reality TV and they were like, no, no docuseries.

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.239
<v Speaker 2>And then slowly I realized they didn't care about any

0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:38.000
<v Speaker 2>of the politics. They wanted me to bring a film

0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:42.360
<v Speaker 2>crew into train yards and squats and all of the

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:46.320
<v Speaker 2>places that like me, as like a crust punk could

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:51.040
<v Speaker 2>get into that they couldn't. And then I already knew

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say no at this point, even

0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:53.759
<v Speaker 2>though I was going to be like the host of

0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.480
<v Speaker 2>the show. And then I found out they weren't trying

0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>to pay me.

0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:02.080
<v Speaker 3>Oh see see on top of it that same experience

0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:04.840
<v Speaker 3>and on top of this for free. Yeah, I'm like,

0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 3>are you it's safe? Man. I wish we hadn't known

0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:11.120
<v Speaker 3>each other then, because one of the things I did

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:14.480
<v Speaker 3>say to them was like, unless you have seventy thousand

0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 3>dollars in cash that every time we walk into a

0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:20.280
<v Speaker 3>new street, you just gonna have to hand the homies

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.480
<v Speaker 3>ten k yeah, yeah, fuck yeah, or they're gonna rob you.

0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 3>I can't stop them this day neighborhood.

0:45:25.680 --> 0:45:28.799
<v Speaker 2>So and you're exploiting them, that's what you're You're going

0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 2>for authenticity. So you should fucking pay them, because if

0:45:31.840 --> 0:45:34.120
<v Speaker 2>they had gone, if this reality TV show had gone

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:36.160
<v Speaker 2>to squats and train yards, went to a bunch of

0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:38.400
<v Speaker 2>train riders and said, yeah, can we put you in

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:41.759
<v Speaker 2>our documentary that exploits you. Here's ten thousand dollars. They

0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:44.640
<v Speaker 2>a would have been like, fuck, yes, of course, you know,

0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:46.200
<v Speaker 2>absolutely fucking broke.

0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:48.840
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, you just see what I'm saying. So I'm like

0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.239
<v Speaker 3>and then yeah. And then with the street stuff, it's

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 3>like it's either you give us this tank or we

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:54.640
<v Speaker 3>steal that camera.

0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally, and.

0:45:56.120 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 3>We get our ten k so yeah, and oh sorry,

0:46:00.960 --> 0:46:04.080
<v Speaker 3>I gotta drop it. And they like, hey, who is

0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 3>he again? Because they don't know me. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:09.680
<v Speaker 3>yeah yeah.

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Turns out all black men are not the same as

0:46:14.640 --> 0:46:15.359
<v Speaker 2>each other sons.

0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 3>We don't all know each other.

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now, how do he put up with this? And

0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I think he put up with it because he knew

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:26.120
<v Speaker 2>this is how I get to New York City. This

0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.719
<v Speaker 2>is how I'm going to fucking make it right. He

0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.600
<v Speaker 2>is playing a game and it's a shitty game, and

0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:34.480
<v Speaker 2>he misses his fucking girlfriend and he's being treated like shit.

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:38.279
<v Speaker 2>But he's like, all right, so a couple months, I

0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:40.359
<v Speaker 2>can do this. This is gonna get me to New York.

0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:43.240
<v Speaker 2>So for a couple of months they travel the South.

0:46:43.680 --> 0:46:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Mostly they visited prisons. John stayed with the wardens. How

0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.839
<v Speaker 2>doe he slept at the fucking prisoners. Of course he did,

0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:54.680
<v Speaker 2>but he slept with the trustees, who are the prisoners

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:56.760
<v Speaker 2>who are trusted to watch over the prisoners with slightly

0:46:56.760 --> 0:46:59.640
<v Speaker 2>better conditions. Yeah, so like the I don't know the

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:04.120
<v Speaker 2>snitch basically, yeah, good behavior boys, Yeah, got it. And

0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:07.799
<v Speaker 2>they recorded songs everywhere they went. Huddy would go into

0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:11.000
<v Speaker 2>town to find people to record. All the while he's

0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.560
<v Speaker 2>also expected, on top of all of this to be

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:17.279
<v Speaker 2>a man servant. He wakes John up with coffee, he

0:47:17.440 --> 0:47:21.120
<v Speaker 2>draws his bath, he evens the car door for him,

0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:21.719
<v Speaker 2>and shit.

0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh I'm good.

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it takes patience. It takes patience for that. You

0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:28.120
<v Speaker 3>got to keep your eye on the prize with that one.

0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Any question about whether or not this man had

0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:31.320
<v Speaker 2>an anger.

0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:34.040
<v Speaker 3>Issue, Yes, it's out the window. Yeah.

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So he's playing shows and it's like a circus actor, honestly,

0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:43.320
<v Speaker 2>a zoo act. In a lot of ways. John sees

0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:45.680
<v Speaker 2>himself as an equal partner in the show because he

0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:50.480
<v Speaker 2>introduces Hoddy and interprets between the songs, explaining all of

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:54.719
<v Speaker 2>the black vernacular that's happening on stage, and he is

0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:59.600
<v Speaker 2>consciously trying to keep Huddy under his control. He undercuts

0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Huddy everywhere they go. No one is allowed to praise

0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Honey too much because quote, the praise of his music

0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 2>spoils him. That's what he wrote to his wife about it.

0:48:08.840 --> 0:48:11.799
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, Hey, y'all, don't cla too hard.

0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, put one hand together and not both hands together.

0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And I had a teacher in fourth grade that

0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:20.439
<v Speaker 3>even though I earned straight a's, he gave me all

0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:24.560
<v Speaker 3>B pluses and he gave me straight B pluses and

0:48:24.719 --> 0:48:27.160
<v Speaker 3>my black panther dad was like, can you explain this

0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:29.400
<v Speaker 3>to me? And he was like, well, we don't want

0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:31.120
<v Speaker 3>him to, you know, he'll have nothing to shoe for.

0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:32.520
<v Speaker 3>He was like, let me get this straight. So you're

0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 3>telling me he earned a's, so he's already attained the

0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 3>thing that you're saying he needs to shoe for. Yeah. Yeah,

0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:45.279
<v Speaker 3>they might both My parents been divorced. They still both

0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:47.200
<v Speaker 3>of them still talk about the story to this day.

0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah fuck yeah, yeah. They was just like something to

0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:50.680
<v Speaker 2>bring them together up.

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:52.920
<v Speaker 3>He was gonna jump over that table on that man.

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which honestly, like literally, we'll get to it. One

0:48:58.320 --> 0:48:59.600
<v Speaker 2>of the ways that Hudey gets out of a really

0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:02.520
<v Speaker 2>bad such of this is just actually by being kind

0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of scary, like the fact that like dangerous people like

0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:10.640
<v Speaker 2>the black man is presented as by society, especially in

0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:13.000
<v Speaker 2>this particular context. But all the time, Yeah, it's like

0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:16.800
<v Speaker 2>it's mostly downsides to get treated that way, right. Yeah,

0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:19.799
<v Speaker 2>But like every now and then you can be like, oh,

0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:22.879
<v Speaker 2>you afraid of me, Maybe you should be afraid of.

0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:25.719
<v Speaker 3>Me, Maybe you should be You never know, you never

0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:28.759
<v Speaker 3>know what I'm with. Yeah, you don't know where I'm from. Yeah,

0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:31.640
<v Speaker 3>dudes a gang bang of day and eight life.

0:49:32.080 --> 0:49:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally. Whereas that is like perfectly calm, nice,

0:49:36.480 --> 0:49:39.759
<v Speaker 2>kind of a cowboy redneck guy who has absolutely killed

0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:42.280
<v Speaker 2>at least one person and been in a lot of fights.

0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:45.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, in their defense, again, the myth don't even need

0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.680
<v Speaker 3>to be necessary. Calm dudes are very scary, totally, Like

0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:52.080
<v Speaker 3>some of the scariest dudes I know, somebody scariest about

0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:53.919
<v Speaker 3>those like I grew up with in the Mexican side

0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:55.919
<v Speaker 3>of town. Dudes that are like, hey, bro, you shoul

0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:57.360
<v Speaker 3>just so a little more respect. Yeah, and you're like,

0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:05.440
<v Speaker 3>all right, like that calm, You're like, oh oh my father, Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:08.239
<v Speaker 2>I know that my stories are kind of pale comparison,

0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:09.799
<v Speaker 2>pun kind of intended.

0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:11.160
<v Speaker 3>But it's good. That was a good one.

0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:15.000
<v Speaker 2>I DJed a goth knight, and goth knights are very

0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:17.480
<v Speaker 2>like We're a bunch of people who are used to

0:50:17.520 --> 0:50:19.719
<v Speaker 2>being picked on and we come into this space and

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.279
<v Speaker 2>it's very precious to us. And I'm done DJing, someone

0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:26.880
<v Speaker 2>else's djying, and this like hipster kid comes in. He

0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:29.960
<v Speaker 2>has a couple of friends with him, and he's like dancing,

0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:32.960
<v Speaker 2>making fun of us, kind of like pointing and being

0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:36.239
<v Speaker 2>like and kind of like copying people. Yeah, And so

0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:38.000
<v Speaker 2>finally I just went up to him and I was like,

0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:40.320
<v Speaker 2>first I went to the bartender and the DJ, and

0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:41.719
<v Speaker 2>I was like, hey, am I start a fighting ah.

0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:43.799
<v Speaker 2>And then I went up to him and I was like,

0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:46.120
<v Speaker 2>hey man, people just like don't like it when you

0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:50.360
<v Speaker 2>make fun of him. And he like pauses and he

0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:53.520
<v Speaker 2>looks around the room and he looks at me and

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:55.080
<v Speaker 2>he leaves smart.

0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:59.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah smart. And all you just say was like, hey, people,

0:50:59.760 --> 0:51:02.600
<v Speaker 3>don't I don't like that. I won't like that. Yeahah,

0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:08.240
<v Speaker 3>that was enough. Yeah, I love it. That's great.

0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:12.640
<v Speaker 2>So Honey is getting spoiled by the praise of his music,

0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:15.279
<v Speaker 2>but he spends about half the time being like, fuck,

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:16.640
<v Speaker 2>I just want to go home with my girlfriend. So

0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:19.239
<v Speaker 2>this shitty job where I'm literally not getting paid, and

0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:22.480
<v Speaker 2>at one point he straight up just asks John for

0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:25.360
<v Speaker 2>a ride home or money to get there and is ignored.

0:51:25.960 --> 0:51:28.920
<v Speaker 2>So he is not free, like he is being not

0:51:29.080 --> 0:51:31.440
<v Speaker 2>paid as he goes around and is sleeping in a

0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:35.759
<v Speaker 2>prison like building copyright for this white man. By the

0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.120
<v Speaker 2>end of the couple of months, John decided that Hudey

0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.000
<v Speaker 2>couldn't be trusted with the dollar a day because he

0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 2>might spend it on alcohol, so starts paying directly for

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.080
<v Speaker 2>the housing and only gave him money before each meal.

0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 2>And during those five weeks, this is the like he suffered.

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:52.319
<v Speaker 2>He went to jail and shit, but this is the

0:51:52.320 --> 0:51:55.239
<v Speaker 2>one that's like cruel and unusual, just this whole fucking thing,

0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.160
<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah, in those five weeks, John collect his

0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:01.480
<v Speaker 2>six hundred and twenty five page book of American folk music,

0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:05.200
<v Speaker 2>most of it black, and copyrighted it. Yeah, and John

0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Lomax almost admitted that what he was doing was fucked up,

0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:11.200
<v Speaker 2>but like in the wrong way or a correct way,

0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:14.560
<v Speaker 2>but not the important way. He wrote, quote worse than

0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:17.840
<v Speaker 2>thieves are ballad collectors for when they capture and imprison

0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:20.800
<v Speaker 2>in cold type of folk song at the same time

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:24.080
<v Speaker 2>they kill it. It's change in growth or not so

0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:27.440
<v Speaker 2>likely to continue after a fixed model for comparison exists.

0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:31.000
<v Speaker 2>That's like interesting in matters. But he cares more about

0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the like song than the singer.

0:52:33.760 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 3>You know. Yeah, it's like you're still learning the wrong lesson. Yeah,

0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.600
<v Speaker 3>like it's a great lesson, it's just the wrong lesson.

0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. It is a quarter as important as the

0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:45.360
<v Speaker 2>lesson you should learn, Yes, exactly.

0:52:45.400 --> 0:52:45.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:50.080
<v Speaker 2>But they drove north. They spent Christmas in DC hut.

0:52:50.080 --> 0:52:53.399
<v Speaker 2>He was probably very lonely having Christmas with a weird

0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:55.840
<v Speaker 2>white family that was making him be a servant. Yeah.

0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:58.120
<v Speaker 2>And then they went to an academic conference in Philly

0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:01.200
<v Speaker 2>to cement John as a good and true academic, and

0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:04.800
<v Speaker 2>they made Lead better wear his old prison outfit on stage.

0:53:05.640 --> 0:53:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Overall is in a bandana and a straw hat. This

0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:11.319
<v Speaker 2>is his biggest performance ever in his life.

0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:12.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh, of course it is.

0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He is not allowed to attend the banquet at

0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:18.320
<v Speaker 2>which rich white people sang folk songs and sea shanties,

0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:23.719
<v Speaker 2>and for three months he wasn't paid, but it got

0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:26.600
<v Speaker 2>him to New York. As soon as they get to

0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:29.319
<v Speaker 2>New York, he's almost free. He's not free yet. As

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 2>soon as they get to New York, Lomax said about

0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:33.479
<v Speaker 2>figuring out how to make sure he basically still owned

0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:36.239
<v Speaker 2>the man and couldn't have an independent career. Part of

0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:38.920
<v Speaker 2>that was representing Hutty as a wild and vicious, wild

0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>animal that only he could tame. Headlines said things like

0:53:43.120 --> 0:53:45.480
<v Speaker 2>sweet Singer of the swamp Lands, here to do a

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:47.680
<v Speaker 2>few tunes between homicides.

0:53:49.440 --> 0:53:52.759
<v Speaker 3>Gangster rap. Yep, you said it exactly. Yeah, he might

0:53:52.840 --> 0:53:56.080
<v Speaker 3>kill you. He might kill you. What a gat.

0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah only actually one of the things that they do.

0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Even though he did go to prison for stabbing a

0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:05.000
<v Speaker 2>white man, they never say that over and over again.

0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:08.000
<v Speaker 2>He's like, don't worry, he only hurts his own kind.

0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:10.879
<v Speaker 3>And gangster rap, gangster rap, same thing.

0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fuck, that's fucking true.

0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:54:16.200 --> 0:54:18.959
<v Speaker 3>Wow, oh man, I hate that so much, all right.

0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Go yeah, no, no, I mean I'm even thinking about

0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:23.800
<v Speaker 2>like when I was a kid, I was like clearly

0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:26.279
<v Speaker 2>liked gangster rap more than I liked the like alternative

0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:30.279
<v Speaker 2>rock on the radio, but I wasn't like culturally allowed to.

0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:33.080
<v Speaker 2>I had to be like, yeah, I like Smashing Pumpkins.

0:54:33.520 --> 0:54:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I did not like Smashing Pumpkins. Yeah, yeah, totally like.

0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I like Notoria's big. It's better music.

0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:41.360
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what to tell you it's better. I

0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:44.080
<v Speaker 3>can't really do it at all, but it's way better. Yeah.

0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:46.360
<v Speaker 2>I actually genuinely thought I didn't like music as a

0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:49.040
<v Speaker 2>kid because all I had exposure to was like nineties rock.

0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:54.759
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's just me. Yeah, that's like, yeah,

0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:57.200
<v Speaker 3>there's there's definitely those list of bands that you're supposed

0:54:57.239 --> 0:54:58.880
<v Speaker 3>to like, and you do your best to like you

0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:00.960
<v Speaker 3>just yeah yeah.

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Although the worst part by getting old is sometimes now

0:55:03.000 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I like, I like the Beatles.

0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:06.959
<v Speaker 3>Now now you can see it, yeah yeah, and I'm like, fuck,

0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:10.520
<v Speaker 3>like so funny.

0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 2>So led Belly was this huge sensation, and John figured

0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:17.080
<v Speaker 2>out soon enough that if he stayed in New York,

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:20.800
<v Speaker 2>led Belly would leave him, so he whisked him away

0:55:20.800 --> 0:55:23.480
<v Speaker 2>to a small town in Connecticut to record an album,

0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:27.920
<v Speaker 2>including a memoir that wasn't a transcription of Huddy Talking.

0:55:28.400 --> 0:55:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Because they never recorded Huddy talking. They had him tell stories,

0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:34.360
<v Speaker 2>and then they went and wrote later and they just

0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:35.160
<v Speaker 2>made shit up.

0:55:35.640 --> 0:55:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:55:36.360 --> 0:55:38.759
<v Speaker 2>And this is the book that's supposedly his words, that

0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:40.160
<v Speaker 2>will never be his copyright.

0:55:40.760 --> 0:55:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:47.320
<v Speaker 2>And interestingly, the historians who looked into it, their writing

0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:49.800
<v Speaker 2>was largely accurate when it was about the good times

0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:53.080
<v Speaker 2>he had with his family, and completely inaccurate when it

0:55:53.120 --> 0:55:59.360
<v Speaker 2>talked about violence. And historian Hazel Carbi said that quote

0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:03.279
<v Speaker 2>the political project of the Lomaxes was to cast the

0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:06.960
<v Speaker 2>blackmail body into the shape of an outlaw. John Lomax

0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:10.400
<v Speaker 2>intended to recover an unadulterated form of black music, and

0:56:10.440 --> 0:56:14.919
<v Speaker 2>then the process actually invented a particular version of black authenticity.

0:56:16.120 --> 0:56:20.799
<v Speaker 2>So this might obviously the like scary blackmail concept has

0:56:20.800 --> 0:56:24.759
<v Speaker 2>been around for a long time. But inventing this type

0:56:24.760 --> 0:56:28.200
<v Speaker 2>of black authenticity, I'm like, this is fucking gangster rep.

0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:31.440
<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, it's sad too. Like, as a member of

0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:34.200
<v Speaker 3>the culture, the part of the things that we internalize

0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:37.520
<v Speaker 3>in the sense that we didn't stay woke, which is

0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:40.240
<v Speaker 3>why again, like, while I always rocked with Leed Belly,

0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:44.279
<v Speaker 3>is like he was not unaware of the game he

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.759
<v Speaker 3>was playing. Yeah, he just played the cards he was

0:56:47.840 --> 0:56:51.239
<v Speaker 3>dealt like you're not really a boss, like not really

0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:55.960
<v Speaker 3>a star, you know, whereas you know, you fast forward

0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 3>so many years and you look at a lot of

0:56:57.719 --> 0:57:01.600
<v Speaker 3>these like young black artists and they're like these record execs.

0:57:01.640 --> 0:57:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Though you a money for a chain, you get a

0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:08.239
<v Speaker 3>chain in a car, you think you made it, yeah,

0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:11.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, and it's like and you made it, you know,

0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:13.920
<v Speaker 3>doing all this drill music, which is your music. And

0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:15.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even gonna judge you about that, you know

0:57:15.719 --> 0:57:19.400
<v Speaker 3>what I'm saying. But like you're playing into, like you said,

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:23.400
<v Speaker 3>a perception of what it means to be legit or

0:57:23.480 --> 0:57:27.520
<v Speaker 3>authentic or truly hood. So now we're perpetuating these stories.

0:57:27.520 --> 0:57:30.320
<v Speaker 3>A lot of these kids, like y'all went to like

0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:34.000
<v Speaker 3>great schools with loving parents, but it's not you not

0:57:34.120 --> 0:57:36.360
<v Speaker 3>allowed to be like that, you know what I'm saying, right,

0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:39.800
<v Speaker 3>And that's very frustrating. I Mean, now there's stuff like

0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:43.560
<v Speaker 3>called nerd rap, where like dudes are like legit nerds

0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 3>like to.

0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Us even more than backpack wrap, because backpack wrap is

0:57:46.760 --> 0:57:49.200
<v Speaker 2>like nerd rap. But this is even more I'm.

0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:55.480
<v Speaker 3>Saying, anime a like nerds, comic book, video game like

0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:58.400
<v Speaker 3>and their whole world is that. So it's like and

0:57:58.640 --> 0:58:00.400
<v Speaker 3>used to be like they just weren't good rap, but

0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:01.640
<v Speaker 3>now a lot of them dudes can.

0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Like actually fucking rap.

0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but they're like amic Khan nerds. Yeah, you know

0:58:07.400 --> 0:58:09.440
<v Speaker 3>what I'm saying. So now there's a world for it

0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:12.840
<v Speaker 3>where you don't have to be just this version of black.

0:58:12.880 --> 0:58:16.080
<v Speaker 3>But then like yeah, but all this like performative you know,

0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:19.120
<v Speaker 3>like stuff like you know, I don't want to pick

0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:20.760
<v Speaker 3>on well, I kind of wanted to pick on very

0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:24.000
<v Speaker 3>particular people, but like like Rick Ross who was like

0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:27.400
<v Speaker 3>Rick Ross was a you worked at a prison. You

0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:30.760
<v Speaker 3>were a security guard at a prison. Jesus, Yeah, like

0:58:30.840 --> 0:58:34.560
<v Speaker 3>your whole persona is like that's your backstory, you know

0:58:35.240 --> 0:58:40.200
<v Speaker 3>me Thos like those guys, they didn't sell drugs. You're

0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:41.320
<v Speaker 3>from a great family.

0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's like that's fine. And what's funny is

0:58:45.360 --> 0:58:47.600
<v Speaker 2>that let bellies from a great family and he doesn't

0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:51.640
<v Speaker 2>pretend otherwise. Other people pretend otherwise about him exactly, yes,

0:58:51.720 --> 0:58:56.560
<v Speaker 2>but like he also still you know, legitimately hard, like

0:58:56.600 --> 0:58:57.400
<v Speaker 2>he's a hard man.

0:58:58.080 --> 0:59:00.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's real. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. That's

0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:02.960
<v Speaker 3>what I mean by like there's the like going in

0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:06.720
<v Speaker 3>open eyed, you know, and there's something to be saying

0:59:06.760 --> 0:59:09.720
<v Speaker 3>now obviously fast forward, you know, almost one hundred years later,

0:59:10.240 --> 0:59:15.520
<v Speaker 3>like we don't we have the means of not having

0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:18.160
<v Speaker 3>to play this game anymore, Like you don't have to

0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:20.160
<v Speaker 3>do this now. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. This

0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:20.760
<v Speaker 3>is bad.

0:59:20.800 --> 0:59:22.880
<v Speaker 2>What happened to lead Belly. This is a bad part.

0:59:23.200 --> 0:59:25.520
<v Speaker 2>He bad like it. As soon as he gets out

0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:26.760
<v Speaker 2>of it, he does other shit.

0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:29.120
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, that's my point. I'm just like, no, you

0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:32.120
<v Speaker 3>don't keep if you're playing the game. The point is

0:59:32.160 --> 0:59:33.080
<v Speaker 3>to do your own shit.

0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally yeah. Yeah.

0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Fuck.

0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:40.120
<v Speaker 2>So they released this book. It's a sixty four page

0:59:40.120 --> 0:59:43.080
<v Speaker 2>book that uses the N word fifty seven times, a

0:59:43.200 --> 0:59:47.400
<v Speaker 2>trillion times. Yeah. The subtitle of the book was King

0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of the Twelve String Guitar Players of the World, Longtime

0:59:50.200 --> 0:59:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Convict and the Penitentiaries of Texas and Louisiana. And it's

0:59:54.080 --> 0:59:57.320
<v Speaker 2>divided into two parts. And the first part is the

0:59:57.360 --> 1:00:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Worldly End Word and part two is the Sinful Songs.

1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:06.080
<v Speaker 2>And what's funny is like when they're going around, they

1:00:06.120 --> 1:00:08.800
<v Speaker 2>often would run across people who are like, no, I'm

1:00:08.840 --> 1:00:11.240
<v Speaker 2>not gonna play you the like fucked up like like

1:00:11.520 --> 1:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>they're like, yeah, I play the weird fucked up songs

1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:15.360
<v Speaker 2>like for my friends, but like, no, no, we we

1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:17.920
<v Speaker 2>like church music. That's where I play some spirituals you know.

1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:18.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally.

1:00:19.120 --> 1:00:21.480
<v Speaker 2>And then they made him sign this is we'll get

1:00:21.480 --> 1:00:24.120
<v Speaker 2>even more to the modern version of everything. They made

1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:27.080
<v Speaker 2>him sign a fucked up management contract we go, which

1:00:27.120 --> 1:00:29.400
<v Speaker 2>means I can draw a pretty direct line from slavery

1:00:29.400 --> 1:00:31.120
<v Speaker 2>to the exploitation of the music industry.

1:00:31.320 --> 1:00:32.360
<v Speaker 3>There it is. Yep.

1:00:32.640 --> 1:00:35.560
<v Speaker 2>The contract had blank spots for the length of the

1:00:35.640 --> 1:00:40.160
<v Speaker 2>contract and the percentage of income that later they added

1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:41.560
<v Speaker 2>in after it was signed.

1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:44.720
<v Speaker 3>After it was signed that by hand.

1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:47.880
<v Speaker 2>They wrote five years and fifty percent after of course

1:00:47.880 --> 1:00:49.360
<v Speaker 2>all the deductions.

1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:52.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, after recoup Okay.

1:00:51.520 --> 1:00:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Soon they changed to thirty three point two thirds whatever

1:00:55.040 --> 1:00:55.560
<v Speaker 2>a third of it.

1:00:55.640 --> 1:00:58.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thirty three and third God, dirt dog.

1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:01.640
<v Speaker 2>There's no terms on how to end the contract, and

1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:05.880
<v Speaker 2>he had to get Lomax's permission in order to play shows. Okay,

1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:07.600
<v Speaker 2>So in order to sweeten the deal to get him

1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:10.280
<v Speaker 2>to sign it, the Lomax has said, if you sign it,

1:01:10.760 --> 1:01:12.960
<v Speaker 2>we'll pay for Martha to come up here and live

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:13.400
<v Speaker 2>with us.

1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 3>Damn signing bonus yep.

1:01:16.280 --> 1:01:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Whereas Lomax literally wrote to his wife, so Alan and I,

1:01:20.480 --> 1:01:23.000
<v Speaker 2>his son will have two servants to look after us

1:01:23.040 --> 1:01:27.680
<v Speaker 2>in our little wooded village because he's still body servanting.

1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:31.880
<v Speaker 2>And when Lomax describes getting a show for Ladbelly, he

1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:35.600
<v Speaker 2>literally writes, I have just sold him for cash money

1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to a party. Now you might think that's subtle. What

1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:41.760
<v Speaker 2>did he mean by that? Fortunately for us, he underlined

1:01:41.840 --> 1:01:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the word sold. Yeah, so, and what I mean is yeah,

1:01:46.440 --> 1:01:51.080
<v Speaker 2>yeah wow. But he signed the contract. Martha came up.

1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:53.480
<v Speaker 2>It had been about five six weeks since it's seen her.

1:01:53.720 --> 1:01:57.280
<v Speaker 2>He cries, and he cries and she moves in with him,

1:01:57.320 --> 1:01:59.160
<v Speaker 2>and the two of them started working for free for

1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:02.960
<v Speaker 2>the Lomaxes because they don't pay them for this, And

1:02:03.640 --> 1:02:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the lo Maxes, of course would complain like I nearly

1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:09.680
<v Speaker 2>starved when that lazy Martha didn't get home to cook

1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:14.080
<v Speaker 2>dinner for us in time for free. Yeah, he was

1:02:14.120 --> 1:02:16.720
<v Speaker 2>forced to work on his wedding day. Like the wedding

1:02:16.800 --> 1:02:19.480
<v Speaker 2>lasts about three hours and then off to work. He

1:02:19.600 --> 1:02:23.439
<v Speaker 2>wasn't allowed to play cowboy songs despite having literally been

1:02:23.480 --> 1:02:27.720
<v Speaker 2>a cowboy. I was like, wait, from Texas. Wait, yeah,

1:02:27.760 --> 1:02:33.280
<v Speaker 2>he has broken horses and wrangled livestock professionally, but that's

1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:37.080
<v Speaker 2>white people's stuff. He's not allowed to play that. Let

1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Better started breaking free at this point, and during a

1:02:41.400 --> 1:02:45.680
<v Speaker 2>tour around upstate New York, he started disobeying Lomax by

1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:49.320
<v Speaker 2>not telling him where he was going. He would go

1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:51.880
<v Speaker 2>off and hang out with like black people and then

1:02:51.960 --> 1:02:55.320
<v Speaker 2>go to black parties. He still made it to all

1:02:55.360 --> 1:02:58.120
<v Speaker 2>of his shows in time, but he also was like,

1:02:58.160 --> 1:03:00.200
<v Speaker 2>there's a kid's birthday party, I'm going to go play.

1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Fuck you. This has nothing to do with you. Yeah,

1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:07.560
<v Speaker 2>And he wasn't being properly deferential to Lomax, so Lomax

1:03:07.560 --> 1:03:09.720
<v Speaker 2>started writing home to his wife being like it's all

1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:14.840
<v Speaker 2>going badly, And one point he refused to give Lomax

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:17.680
<v Speaker 2>the money that he made passing the hat after songs.

1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:22.040
<v Speaker 3>Mm oh man, he ain't get a mass that they could. Okay.

1:03:22.640 --> 1:03:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So what set him free was two things. It's

1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:28.520
<v Speaker 2>a perfect one two punch that fucking Huddy Ledbetter as

1:03:28.560 --> 1:03:32.919
<v Speaker 2>the master of punch one. Lomax believed all the hype

1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.120
<v Speaker 2>he had built up about Huddy as a terrifying killer

1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and frankly Huddy is both a killer and probably capable

1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:42.680
<v Speaker 2>of being terrifying. Yes, he realized that if he pushed

1:03:42.680 --> 1:03:47.040
<v Speaker 2>the guy around too much he might get killed. Yeah,

1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:50.920
<v Speaker 2>So they were like, all right, we're buying you and

1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Martha tickets back to Louisiana or don recording your shit,

1:03:54.000 --> 1:03:56.160
<v Speaker 2>get the fuck out of here. And they sent him

1:03:56.200 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 2>some checks that they owed him his like one third,

1:03:58.920 --> 1:04:01.680
<v Speaker 2>but they post data the checks so he couldn't cash them.

1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Just to be a dick, yeah, yeah, and then not

1:04:06.640 --> 1:04:09.280
<v Speaker 2>just to be a dick, John tried to get him arrested.

1:04:09.760 --> 1:04:13.280
<v Speaker 2>I hate this guy. No, Yeah, like his probation terms

1:04:13.280 --> 1:04:16.360
<v Speaker 2>that like you can go out and work involve good behavior.

1:04:16.640 --> 1:04:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Right when Honey gets the postdated checks, he writes back

1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:25.480
<v Speaker 2>a like, fairly polite letter. We know what the letter publish.

1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Fairly polite letter that was, you should probably send me

1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the money you visit our website instead of check us out.

1:04:31.680 --> 1:04:34.560
<v Speaker 1>On the iHeart Apple podcasts.

1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Lomax wrote the sheriff in fucking Louisiana and was like,

1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the scary black man threatened my life and over sending

1:04:43.440 --> 1:04:50.000
<v Speaker 2>postated checks. Now surprise hero of the story, White sheriff

1:04:50.000 --> 1:04:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and Louisiana not only did he not turn on Huddy,

1:04:54.640 --> 1:04:57.560
<v Speaker 2>he instead went and found a white attorney to tell

1:04:57.600 --> 1:04:59.919
<v Speaker 2>Lomax like, fuck you, you need to pay Honey.

1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Pay this man is money.

1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's go. That's crazy.

1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:07.000
<v Speaker 3>You find fans anywhere. It's like, I'm talking about this guy, ribs,

1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:10.160
<v Speaker 3>he hasn't been paying you. Goodnight, I bro, come on,

1:05:10.800 --> 1:05:11.840
<v Speaker 3>what you talking about?

1:05:12.080 --> 1:05:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:16.840
<v Speaker 2>And so then this attorney goes and represents Honey and

1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:19.040
<v Speaker 2>they go through lots and lots of legal threats and

1:05:19.040 --> 1:05:21.720
<v Speaker 2>do all this crazy shit and they get him out

1:05:21.760 --> 1:05:24.400
<v Speaker 2>of the contract. And so that's his one two punch.

1:05:24.600 --> 1:05:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm a scary black man and I know the fucking law.

1:05:28.080 --> 1:05:32.200
<v Speaker 3>That's so crazy. Yeah, that's so crazy. You're bullying this food.

1:05:32.240 --> 1:05:33.960
<v Speaker 3>Then you turn around and that dude says, hey, you're

1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:36.960
<v Speaker 3>gonna stop bullying me now. Yeah, he realizes man has

1:05:36.960 --> 1:05:38.880
<v Speaker 3>been letting you do this to him this Oh, like

1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:40.000
<v Speaker 3>I've been letting you do this.

1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:05:42.040 --> 1:05:43.920
<v Speaker 3>He's just like, that's so great.

1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:46.280
<v Speaker 2>And so it's like he has gotten himself out of

1:05:46.360 --> 1:05:49.320
<v Speaker 2>jail by burning a hole in the floor, by singing

1:05:49.320 --> 1:05:53.360
<v Speaker 2>a song, by doing jail house lawyer shit, and then

1:05:53.360 --> 1:05:55.200
<v Speaker 2>he got himself out of it's not the same as jail,

1:05:55.200 --> 1:05:57.280
<v Speaker 2>but he got himself out of a I work for

1:05:57.600 --> 1:06:02.760
<v Speaker 2>free Exploitation's true. The book did still come out about him.

1:06:02.760 --> 1:06:04.400
<v Speaker 2>He didn't have any say over that because it was

1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:07.440
<v Speaker 2>owned by Macmillan, the publisher who actually publishes some of

1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:10.760
<v Speaker 2>my shits. Still Yeah, I was like, they still exist. Yeah, yeah,

1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and I actually don't know how they are. Villains are

1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:18.200
<v Speaker 2>not about a whole thing. That book came out. Ledbetter

1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:20.280
<v Speaker 2>was pretty upset about it. He wrote about it. He

1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:22.040
<v Speaker 2>was like, look, this is not my words. Just in

1:06:22.080 --> 1:06:25.000
<v Speaker 2>case anyone's curious, I didn't say any of that shit.

1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:28.040
<v Speaker 2>He also wrote that people shouldn't use the N word,

1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:31.680
<v Speaker 2>and it was used fifty seven times in the sixty

1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:34.720
<v Speaker 2>four page book, including in one of the headings. Yeah,

1:06:34.760 --> 1:06:36.840
<v Speaker 2>and people knew him so that the sound of that

1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.439
<v Speaker 2>word irritated him. He wanted to write his own book.

1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe he ever did. He was like, I'm

1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:42.040
<v Speaker 2>going to write my own book. It's going to be

1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:45.080
<v Speaker 2>called We Show Walk through the Valley in piece because

1:06:45.680 --> 1:06:47.800
<v Speaker 2>that's more his vibe. That and being kind of a

1:06:47.840 --> 1:06:51.360
<v Speaker 2>weird Christian communist. Yeah, which we'll get to now. He

1:06:51.400 --> 1:06:53.560
<v Speaker 2>moves back to New York and he helps start a

1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:56.920
<v Speaker 2>folk revival there and he plays like there's like only

1:06:56.960 --> 1:07:02.320
<v Speaker 2>like one fucking cafe, like one show venue that's really integrated,

1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:05.360
<v Speaker 2>and that's where he fucking plays over and over again.

1:07:05.680 --> 1:07:10.000
<v Speaker 2>He was arrested one more time, another probable self defense case.

1:07:10.440 --> 1:07:12.680
<v Speaker 2>He likely wrestled a man's knife away from him and

1:07:12.760 --> 1:07:15.920
<v Speaker 2>stabbed the guy with his own knife. And when this happened,

1:07:16.400 --> 1:07:18.640
<v Speaker 2>it was Alan Lomax, who had been seventeen when he

1:07:18.640 --> 1:07:22.520
<v Speaker 2>first met him. Lomax's son who paid his bail and

1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:26.000
<v Speaker 2>then dropped out of grad school to raise money for

1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:30.640
<v Speaker 2>his defense day. And so Alan Lomax he turned out alright,

1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:34.680
<v Speaker 2>he is nothing like his dad. His dad actually sold

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:38.120
<v Speaker 2>out his own son to the Red Scare and wrote

1:07:38.120 --> 1:07:42.520
<v Speaker 2>the FEDS and was like, I think my son's a communist. Wow,

1:07:42.560 --> 1:07:45.000
<v Speaker 2>So his son had to flee the fucking country for

1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:48.320
<v Speaker 2>eight years. Alan Lomax was out of the country from

1:07:48.400 --> 1:07:50.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty eight because he was like

1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:53.120
<v Speaker 2>a small c communist. He wasn't a member of the

1:07:53.120 --> 1:07:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Communist Party, but he like.

1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:56.520
<v Speaker 3>I liked the ideas.

1:07:56.760 --> 1:07:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:07:58.560 --> 1:08:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Led Belly spent six months at Rikers despite all of

1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:03.959
<v Speaker 2>the defense, but that is less than he usually gets.

1:08:04.640 --> 1:08:06.560
<v Speaker 2>And he was political as fock in his later years.

1:08:06.680 --> 1:08:09.320
<v Speaker 2>He was proudly a union man. The East Coast New

1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:11.640
<v Speaker 2>York Local two on two of the American Federation of

1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Musicians was racially integrated, whereas he tried to go out west.

1:08:15.360 --> 1:08:17.200
<v Speaker 2>He wanted to be a cowboy in movies, but the

1:08:17.320 --> 1:08:21.840
<v Speaker 2>union there wasn't racially integrated, so he like couldn't do shit. Yeah,

1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:24.800
<v Speaker 2>he played protests all of the time. He read the

1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:28.160
<v Speaker 2>local leftist newspapers. And I talked with a singer named

1:08:28.160 --> 1:08:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Andy Cohen, someone who didn't know him directly but was

1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:33.800
<v Speaker 2>part of the early sixties movement that he inspired. So

1:08:33.920 --> 1:08:37.320
<v Speaker 2>like the kind of immediately after him scene, Yeah, and

1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:40.559
<v Speaker 2>that man described to me led Belly's politics like this,

1:08:41.400 --> 1:08:45.240
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't have sung solidarity forever. Rather he would have

1:08:45.280 --> 1:08:48.840
<v Speaker 2>done work songs that were much more direct. And so

1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:49.960
<v Speaker 2>he's like, oh, yeah, how am I going to talk

1:08:49.960 --> 1:08:52.000
<v Speaker 2>about the workers. I'm gonna sing fucking work songs.

1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Sing work songs. That's what I know him from. I

1:08:54.280 --> 1:08:57.599
<v Speaker 3>know him from the organizing, the like the New York

1:08:57.680 --> 1:09:00.920
<v Speaker 3>scene of just like just say the thing. Yeah, Like

1:09:01.000 --> 1:09:03.200
<v Speaker 3>that's the songwriting I feel like with him is just like,

1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:06.400
<v Speaker 3>just say it, say it, say the thing. No, totally, yeah,

1:09:06.439 --> 1:09:06.960
<v Speaker 3>you know what I'm saying.

1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:08.599
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever heard a song mister Hitler.

1:09:09.120 --> 1:09:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes, he's so fucking good.

1:09:11.160 --> 1:09:13.840
<v Speaker 2>He wrote a song. The chorus is We're gonna tear

1:09:13.880 --> 1:09:14.919
<v Speaker 2>Hitler down someday.

1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:16.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just say the thing.

1:09:16.800 --> 1:09:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And I read somewhere years ago when he came

1:09:21.680 --> 1:09:24.040
<v Speaker 2>up on a different episode about jail breaks. I can't

1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:25.920
<v Speaker 2>find my source for this because I wasn't as good

1:09:25.960 --> 1:09:29.600
<v Speaker 2>at tracking everything then that he tried to volunteer for

1:09:29.680 --> 1:09:31.559
<v Speaker 2>World War Two to fight the fascists even though he

1:09:31.600 --> 1:09:32.439
<v Speaker 2>was in his fifties.

1:09:32.880 --> 1:09:33.720
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know that one.

1:09:33.840 --> 1:09:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know that was true or not. But

1:09:36.720 --> 1:09:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Hoodie mentored Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, the like white

1:09:39.920 --> 1:09:42.800
<v Speaker 2>people who are more famously known for starting political folk music.

1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:45.960
<v Speaker 2>He got to go to France to play shows, and

1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:48.640
<v Speaker 2>by the end of his fifties he was diagnosed with

1:09:48.720 --> 1:09:52.360
<v Speaker 2>als Luke Arrick's disease and he needed a wheelchair, and

1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:55.519
<v Speaker 2>he kept playing shows and this part I really like.

1:09:56.760 --> 1:09:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Martha would join him on stage and sing spirituals with him.

1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:01.360
<v Speaker 2>So you go up and he play, and then when

1:10:01.400 --> 1:10:03.200
<v Speaker 2>he got to the spirituals, his wife would come on

1:10:03.200 --> 1:10:06.600
<v Speaker 2>stage and sing with him. Yeah, he closed out the

1:10:06.720 --> 1:10:10.000
<v Speaker 2>very last concert he ever played, joined by his wife

1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Martha and sang songs with her. And also she wore

1:10:14.880 --> 1:10:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a suit on stage two at least by the one

1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:21.120
<v Speaker 2>photo I found m h And he died at sixty

1:10:21.600 --> 1:10:26.200
<v Speaker 2>on December sixth, nineteen forty nine, and Alan Lomax worked

1:10:26.240 --> 1:10:28.479
<v Speaker 2>hard to get the rights to led better songs to

1:10:28.560 --> 1:10:30.719
<v Speaker 2>Martha instead of his dad.

1:10:31.040 --> 1:10:31.280
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:10:32.000 --> 1:10:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, people through a concert for his memorial, and people

1:10:36.120 --> 1:10:39.040
<v Speaker 2>said about him, quote, I would want to know a

1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:42.400
<v Speaker 2>better person. And they said that he wasn't a murderer,

1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:46.240
<v Speaker 2>but that he was a quote self defense man. Someone

1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:49.080
<v Speaker 2>said that quote. He loved children, and he loved people,

1:10:49.280 --> 1:10:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and most of all, he loved himself. And they said

1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:54.519
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't start trouble, but he tried to stop it.

1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.000
<v Speaker 2>One of the mothers of his children, the very first

1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Margaret that he had kids with before he married Aalifa,

1:11:01.400 --> 1:11:04.679
<v Speaker 2>who he stayed up with, right like, Yeah, he didn't

1:11:04.680 --> 1:11:07.760
<v Speaker 2>abandon his kids, he wrote, quote, he never tried to

1:11:07.800 --> 1:11:10.360
<v Speaker 2>interfere with anyone unless they would give him a cause

1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:13.639
<v Speaker 2>then he would try to defend himself. He just wouldn't

1:11:13.680 --> 1:11:16.280
<v Speaker 2>stand for nobody to punch him in the face. He

1:11:16.439 --> 1:11:20.160
<v Speaker 2>was strong and he could win fights. Oh lord, very.

1:11:20.080 --> 1:11:23.120
<v Speaker 3>Easy, good, Oh no, very easy.

1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:25.160
<v Speaker 2>That's what I got.

1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:29.720
<v Speaker 3>I love that. I think, yeah, what a what a

1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:33.599
<v Speaker 3>giant dude. And then just the unsung again tradition of

1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:37.519
<v Speaker 3>like I don't blame you know, gun three for this,

1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:40.000
<v Speaker 3>but it's just like it's not like he was. He

1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:41.920
<v Speaker 3>just admired the dude, and the dude taught it, you

1:11:41.960 --> 1:11:44.360
<v Speaker 3>know what I'm saying. Totally he became the star. You

1:11:44.360 --> 1:11:47.360
<v Speaker 3>know what I'm saying, Like again time on a tradition. Yeah,

1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:57.520
<v Speaker 3>but I do think the fact that folk music, resistance, communism, feminism,

1:11:58.040 --> 1:12:04.200
<v Speaker 3>and spirituality is all on the same stage is the

1:12:04.320 --> 1:12:07.240
<v Speaker 3>thing that I've had a hard time articulating to like

1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:12.320
<v Speaker 3>the cool zone audience. Yeah, like as like our experience

1:12:12.360 --> 1:12:14.840
<v Speaker 3>as black people. The way I talk so freely about

1:12:14.880 --> 1:12:19.599
<v Speaker 3>Bible stuff and Christianity is because well we come from this,

1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:22.840
<v Speaker 3>yeah you know what I mean. It's not like I

1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:26.240
<v Speaker 3>don't say, like we're not evangelicals, right, Like we're not

1:12:26.439 --> 1:12:31.400
<v Speaker 3>that like so there was no like the idea They're like,

1:12:31.439 --> 1:12:33.920
<v Speaker 3>well if you're well, your dad was kind of a Marxist.

1:12:33.960 --> 1:12:36.120
<v Speaker 3>I thought he was a Christian, And I'm like, well, yes.

1:12:36.360 --> 1:12:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why is this a contradiction. Yeah, like those.

1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:41.639
<v Speaker 3>Aren't contradict Like, those aren't far from each other.

1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Marx might, but he's not Marx. He doesn't fucking need

1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:46.160
<v Speaker 2>to be Marx. He's his own fucking person.

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:49.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly. I'm just like these things are not. Yeah,

1:12:49.840 --> 1:12:52.280
<v Speaker 3>a Christian to be a Communist, I'm like, easy, but.

1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally read the fucking Bible.

1:12:54.240 --> 1:12:55.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, Yeah, read the book.

1:12:56.160 --> 1:12:59.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, Like there's a lot more about hating rich

1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:02.080
<v Speaker 2>people than there is a out like people, a little

1:13:02.080 --> 1:13:04.960
<v Speaker 2>bit of hating gainy people, lots of hating rich people.

1:13:04.920 --> 1:13:06.839
<v Speaker 3>A lot of that. Yeah, a lot of the gayety

1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:09.960
<v Speaker 3>gay people kind of was like also, don't eat cheese

1:13:09.960 --> 1:13:10.720
<v Speaker 3>with beefs.

1:13:10.800 --> 1:13:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or like misunderstood.

1:13:12.360 --> 1:13:13.280
<v Speaker 3>Let a lot of that shit go.

1:13:13.400 --> 1:13:15.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, totally yeah.

1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:18.960
<v Speaker 3>But like like you said, the little notes of like, look,

1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:20.920
<v Speaker 3>he stuck with this lady all the time. She ain't

1:13:20.960 --> 1:13:22.519
<v Speaker 3>want to do the world stuff, but she wanted to

1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:24.599
<v Speaker 3>do the church stuff. But you do the church stuff

1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:26.960
<v Speaker 3>with the world stuff. It all gets on stage and yeah,

1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:30.120
<v Speaker 3>I won't play that, like of course we have like

1:13:30.160 --> 1:13:32.240
<v Speaker 3>this isn't Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to

1:13:32.280 --> 1:13:34.839
<v Speaker 3>pay no utopia, like the Black Church don't have horrible

1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:36.760
<v Speaker 3>misogyny in it, you know what I'm saying, right, But

1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:40.040
<v Speaker 3>what I'm saying is like we just didn't have We

1:13:40.240 --> 1:13:43.360
<v Speaker 3>had in problems you had, you know, and a lot

1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:47.519
<v Speaker 3>of that was because of like what you're articulating was like,

1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:51.160
<v Speaker 3>this was the reality of our situation. The reality of

1:13:51.160 --> 1:13:55.040
<v Speaker 3>our situation said, the way to our freedom is to

1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:56.160
<v Speaker 3>function like this.

1:13:56.840 --> 1:13:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like the third space stuff that you were

1:13:59.680 --> 1:14:02.120
<v Speaker 2>talking about earlier about being like it was, it was

1:14:02.160 --> 1:14:04.040
<v Speaker 2>researching episodes a couple of years ago on the show

1:14:04.040 --> 1:14:06.320
<v Speaker 2>that I really started to more understand this thing you're

1:14:06.320 --> 1:14:08.599
<v Speaker 2>talking about, where I'm like, oh no, like the Black

1:14:08.680 --> 1:14:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Church is a center of resistance, so like it's yes,

1:14:11.640 --> 1:14:15.920
<v Speaker 2>the destruction of black churches is more it's racism, and

1:14:15.960 --> 1:14:18.040
<v Speaker 2>it's a well, it's not really anti religious. It's usually

1:14:18.080 --> 1:14:19.960
<v Speaker 2>done by people who are very religious, but in the

1:14:19.960 --> 1:14:23.599
<v Speaker 2>opposite way. But it's specifically the destruction of a symbol

1:14:23.680 --> 1:14:26.720
<v Speaker 2>in an organizing place, like it is like exactly it's like, oh,

1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:28.519
<v Speaker 2>you all are trying to like lift each other up

1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>with the same thing that we used to put you down.

1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:34.680
<v Speaker 2>So we're going to destroy that. So only like the

1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:36.360
<v Speaker 2>same way is like, the only way to be the

1:14:36.360 --> 1:14:38.880
<v Speaker 2>best dancer is to not let black people in. Yes,

1:14:38.960 --> 1:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>the only way to be the best Christian is to

1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:43.040
<v Speaker 2>not let black Christianity it, you know, don't let them talk.

1:14:43.080 --> 1:14:44.920
<v Speaker 3>Don't let them talk. Yeah, they don't point it the

1:14:44.960 --> 1:14:47.840
<v Speaker 3>stuff in the book. Yeah, that tells us we wrong.

1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I'm waiting for fucking advance to realize the

1:14:51.840 --> 1:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>word Catholic means universal and the entire fucking concept of

1:14:55.680 --> 1:14:58.960
<v Speaker 2>early Christianity was the idea that you can't treat people

1:14:59.000 --> 1:15:01.800
<v Speaker 2>different based on what triber nation they are, you know. Yeah,

1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:04.599
<v Speaker 2>that was That was the fucking revolutionary idea that's embedded

1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:07.080
<v Speaker 2>in it. Power structures came out of it. Power structures

1:15:07.080 --> 1:15:08.600
<v Speaker 2>often do real bad things.

1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:11.479
<v Speaker 3>But like, yeah, every time you open your mouth, I'm like, bro,

1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:15.800
<v Speaker 3>you truly don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, but yeah, dude, man,

1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:16.360
<v Speaker 3>what a guy?

1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Man?

1:15:16.920 --> 1:15:18.599
<v Speaker 3>I know, what a guy? What a story?

1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:20.519
<v Speaker 2>And I love that. It's just he's a guy.

1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:21.679
<v Speaker 3>He is just a dude.

1:15:21.720 --> 1:15:23.920
<v Speaker 2>He is both cool and flawed in a way that

1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:27.439
<v Speaker 2>just like I fucking I was really excited about this

1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:27.760
<v Speaker 2>and I.

1:15:27.840 --> 1:15:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Mess with it.

1:15:28.400 --> 1:15:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Man.

1:15:28.600 --> 1:15:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for choosing me for this one man,

1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:34.880
<v Speaker 3>because this was like, yeah, like this like put some yeah,

1:15:35.000 --> 1:15:37.160
<v Speaker 3>put some gasoline in the engine here. Man, this guy

1:15:37.240 --> 1:15:38.840
<v Speaker 3>was super excited. You know.

1:15:39.560 --> 1:15:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, if people want to listen to your podcast or

1:15:43.360 --> 1:15:43.800
<v Speaker 2>listening to.

1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Music, please Yeah. I come from that spirit, man, I

1:15:47.120 --> 1:15:50.360
<v Speaker 3>come from that like say the thing change the world?

1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:53.760
<v Speaker 3>You know again, prop hip hop dot Com for the

1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:56.160
<v Speaker 3>new music the new records called This is Our Fellowship.

1:15:56.320 --> 1:16:01.439
<v Speaker 3>It's about the masculinity crisis. Yeah, so it's like I'm

1:16:01.479 --> 1:16:05.439
<v Speaker 3>talking that talk. Yeah, but hood politics were prop you know,

1:16:05.680 --> 1:16:08.479
<v Speaker 3>spend a great, great time over there. You know. If

1:16:08.479 --> 1:16:12.160
<v Speaker 3>you ever, like Margaret says, you ever looked at the

1:16:12.200 --> 1:16:16.280
<v Speaker 3>headlines and was like wait what Yeah, I feel like

1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:21.320
<v Speaker 3>surely they're not saying It's like yeah they are, and

1:16:22.000 --> 1:16:24.320
<v Speaker 3>this is why they're saying that. Yeah, so like, yeah,

1:16:24.400 --> 1:16:26.479
<v Speaker 3>come to me for that. I'm not breaking news data

1:16:26.600 --> 1:16:28.439
<v Speaker 3>right now, that's you go to it can have it

1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:29.400
<v Speaker 3>here for breaking news.

1:16:30.560 --> 1:16:33.320
<v Speaker 2>No, you got you got the analysis of news that

1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I Yeah, it's the analysis and just to continue to

1:16:36.560 --> 1:16:38.240
<v Speaker 2>gas you up on this and why people should listen

1:16:38.240 --> 1:16:43.240
<v Speaker 2>to the show. One of your specific talents is understanding

1:16:43.280 --> 1:16:46.559
<v Speaker 2>the other side and expressing things the way that the

1:16:46.640 --> 1:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>other side understands them. Yeah, not to be like and

1:16:49.720 --> 1:16:51.599
<v Speaker 2>that's why we should have sympathy for the people who

1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:55.000
<v Speaker 2>are trying to kill you, but instead being like basic

1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:57.080
<v Speaker 2>art of war, you need to know your enemy.

1:16:57.600 --> 1:17:00.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and this is how they got there. And it's

1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:02.360
<v Speaker 3>not so much like I said, yeah, now sympathy, but

1:17:02.479 --> 1:17:06.599
<v Speaker 3>like honestly like us using the white Christian thing for example.

1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:08.719
<v Speaker 3>It's like me and Mahomi was talking about this recently,

1:17:08.840 --> 1:17:11.639
<v Speaker 3>like if somebody walked up to you and said, hey, bro,

1:17:12.520 --> 1:17:15.040
<v Speaker 3>your way of life is going away, like if they

1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:16.840
<v Speaker 3>did like he gave it example, like hip hop, Like

1:17:16.840 --> 1:17:20.400
<v Speaker 3>if somebody was like, listen, the post malones of the world,

1:17:20.479 --> 1:17:23.479
<v Speaker 3>the machine gun kellies of the world, are destroying your culture.

1:17:23.800 --> 1:17:25.880
<v Speaker 3>This is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna build defense

1:17:25.920 --> 1:17:28.120
<v Speaker 3>around it and make it impossible for them to come in.

1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:30.759
<v Speaker 3>And on top of that, I'm gonna invest in everything

1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:34.519
<v Speaker 3>y'all built, right, like sign me the fuck up, yo,

1:17:34.680 --> 1:17:37.160
<v Speaker 3>saying like so I mean, that's what what he telling

1:17:37.200 --> 1:17:40.519
<v Speaker 3>these people you tell me, and it's like they wrong,

1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:43.640
<v Speaker 3>you're sat up saying because like going back to the

1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:46.040
<v Speaker 3>hip hop thing, I'm like, well, you pointed a finger

1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:49.120
<v Speaker 3>at post Malone. I'm like, you ignoring third base, you

1:17:49.160 --> 1:17:52.200
<v Speaker 3>ignoring the Beastie boys, you ignoring eminem like you ignore

1:17:52.240 --> 1:17:54.639
<v Speaker 3>all these other white people who have been amazing parts

1:17:54.640 --> 1:17:56.760
<v Speaker 3>of the hip hop culture. As if you know what

1:17:56.800 --> 1:17:59.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm saying. So I'm like, well, you you cherry picking,

1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:02.360
<v Speaker 3>But that's not the point. The point is, like you said,

1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:04.519
<v Speaker 3>I need to understand what they say it, and I'm

1:18:04.520 --> 1:18:06.240
<v Speaker 3>gonna help you understand at least what they say it.

1:18:06.360 --> 1:18:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yep, So people should listen to your show figured Out, unless,

1:18:10.360 --> 1:18:12.200
<v Speaker 2>of course, your hate listening to this and trying to

1:18:12.280 --> 1:18:14.360
<v Speaker 2>learn us as the enemy, in which case, don't listen

1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:15.600
<v Speaker 2>to politics.

1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Never mind, don't worry about it. Yeah, roll on, Yeah, Yeah,

1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:21.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what.

1:18:21.360 --> 1:18:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Else should we if you want a book that gets

1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>into all of this stuff and more, probably the main

1:18:26.800 --> 1:18:32.960
<v Speaker 2>source I used and the best work done to. Like,

1:18:33.040 --> 1:18:35.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a historian, I don't work as much with

1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:37.599
<v Speaker 2>the primary sources and do interviews and stuff and like

1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:40.040
<v Speaker 2>hang out in the archives. I am a pop historian.

1:18:40.120 --> 1:18:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I work with secondary sources primarily and try and tell

1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>you a good story to get you interested in things.

1:18:46.560 --> 1:18:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I like to see myself as a history educator rather

1:18:48.920 --> 1:18:52.040
<v Speaker 2>than a historian, but the actual historian who did the

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<v Speaker 2>work that I am deeply indebted to. I would recommend

1:18:55.240 --> 1:18:59.519
<v Speaker 2>reading Bring Judgment Day Reclaiming Led Belly's Truths from Jim

1:18:59.600 --> 1:19:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Crow's Lie Lies by Sheila Curran Bernard. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>got any you want to plug.

1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:07.040
<v Speaker 1>I just want to go play with my dog at

1:19:07.040 --> 1:19:07.599
<v Speaker 1>this point.

1:19:08.000 --> 1:19:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, go play with dogs. Yeah, take care of each other.

1:19:11.600 --> 1:19:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Fuck Ice Free Palestine, and see y'all next week. Go

1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Lakers and Go Lakers.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1:19:29.000 --> 1:19:29.879
<v Speaker 1>visit our website.