WEBVTT - Session 475: On the Couch with the Characters of The Five Star Weekend 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.320 conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.480 decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.600 of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor joy hard and Bradford, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:32.040 a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.600 to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.440 at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.479 love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.400 not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:57.200 a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.480 for joining me for session four seventy five of the 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.560 Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. I'm so glad that you're 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.840 spending some more time with me today, because today I'm 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.959 welcoming the characters from the fire Star Weekend to the couch. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.080 We'll get right into this conversation after a quick word 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:22.720 from our sponsors. So, after hearing about it from the 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.800 Girl's own threads, I decided to binge the five Star Weekend. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.920 It's a show that pulls you in with complicated friendships 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.080 and plenty of twists, but underneath all of that, it's 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.360 asking much bigger questions, how well do we ever truly 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.360 know the people closest to us, what happens when grief 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.360 collides with long held secrets, and what does it take 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.680 to finally reckon with the version of yourself you've spent 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.880 years protecting. Today, we're unpacking the emotional journeys of each 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.240 of the women at the center of the series. We'll 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.960 break down the wounds and patterns they're carrying into the weekend, 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.680 how each character navigates friendship, grief, forgiveness, and self discovery, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.640 and how the events of the weekend transport them and 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.080 their relationships. So, if you finish the series or don't 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.800 mind a few spoilers, get comfortable, because we're diving into 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.280 the Five Star Weekend for a special episode of On 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:18.120 the Couch. Let's get into it. So a little bit 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.280 of a breakdown of what we actually see happening in 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.480 the Five Star Weekend. So we have food blogger Hollis 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.639 who's played by Jennifer Gorner, and she's trying to combat 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.480 the loss of her husband, Matthew by recreating a five 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.399 Star wee can get away at her house on Nantucket 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.320 with four friends from different stages of her life. So 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.760 there is her childhood friend Tatum, her college friend Dreuanne 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.480 who's played by the hilarious Regina Hall, her motherhood friend Brooke, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.440 as well as a woman Gigi, who she recently met online. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.680 As the five friends spend the weekend together, they mature 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.640 in ways they could never imagine, as boundaries are pushed 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:00.000 and secrets are exposed. So if you have watched the series, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.880 then I'm sure that you have lots of thought as 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.680 I do about all of the characters, which is why 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.520 I thought it would make a great on the Couch episode. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.000 So let's just start with Hollis. So, Hollis is our 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.800 main character. She is a food blogger. As women, as people, 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.400 we all have our own coping strategies in the ways 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.639 that we try to manage difficult things in our lives. 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.040 And so Hollis Is, it feels like main coping strategy 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:33.480 is perfectionism and presentation as a way to avoid things. Right. So, 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.800 you know, she is a food blogger and a lot 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:40.279 of her life revolves around making beautiful food to photograph 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.320 and share with her audience, and so there's a lot 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:48.160 of focus on things looking beautiful. Right, But this does 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.560 not just stop in her world as it relates to 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.560 her food and her work. There's also a very heavy 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.040 focus on what her presentation of grief looks like. It 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.560 looks like she is much more focused on how she 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.400 is to the world as a grieving widow and not 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.120 really wanting people to think that her world is falling apart. 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.920 Then she is actually feeling the feelings of grief, and 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.680 this actually leads to some tension with her daughter, Caroline, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.359 who is a college student, because Caroline doesn't feel like 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.640 Mom is actually grieving the loss of Hollis's husband, and 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.200 so there's some tension there because Caroline of course feels 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.320 awful that her dad has passed away, but doesn't actually 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.760 feel like Mom is so sad, and so there's some 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.159 tension there. It feels like Caroline is trying to push 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.800 Mom away because she doesn't feel like she really gets 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.400 what the grief has done to her life. Now, of course, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.839 Hollis is grieving in her own way, which I think 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.400 is an important thing to point out right that grief 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.000 can look different for lots of different people. So, of 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.280 course Hollis is grieving, but it doesn't look like what 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.000 Caroline thinks it should look like. Which is where the 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.760 tension comes from. So Hollis plans this weekend on Nantucket 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.720 for four of her friends. So, like we said, she 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.520 has the childhood friend Tatum, who grew up on Nantucket 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:10.480 with Hollis and they considered themselves sisters. So she actually 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.159 moved into Tatum's home after her mom passed away, so 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.960 they have grown up very very close. But Tatum still 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.280 lives on Nantucket. And so Hollis is now in New York. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.600 Her work and her you know, family have taken her 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.160 in lots of different places, and Tatum still is in 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.480 her hometown. And I think that that is an interesting dynamic, 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.640 right when we see friendships where there is this history, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.359 but somebody has moved away and created a very different life, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.520 whereas the other person is still kind of in the 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.880 hometown and maybe has not been exposed to as much 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.159 as the other friend. And so we definitely see some 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.440 tension there. Though it isn't always spoken, you could definitely 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.880 feel it through the characters. There is this tension there 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.400 about the differences in the different routes that their lives 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.160 has taken them. And this is most pronounced with the 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.159 introduction of which is Regina Hall's character. So drew Anne 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.400 is the college friend. She is a high powered agent. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.800 She is managing a tennis star who we see there 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.800 is some she's canceled by the internet because she makes 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:16.760 a comment around this tennis star wo needs to take 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.440 a break and she says like, oh, this is not 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.640 a struggle for her. She doesn't have mental health concerns, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.760 and she faces some backlash there. But drew Anne and 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.120 Tatum clearly have some tension. It feels like more from 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.120 Tatum's side because in a lot of ways it feels 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.039 like she has been replaced by drew Anne. I think 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.679 that that is what Tatum is feeling. And it also 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.239 feels like there is some tension related to the wedding. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.000 I guess Drew Ayne made a comment about some shoes 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.279 that Tatum was wearing, like oh, are you planning to 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.320 wear those? And Tatum kind of took that as if 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.880 she was not good enough right now. I'm guessing that 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.719 there were already some feelings therefore Tatum around like I said, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.599 the being replaced by this new friend, is there still 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.640 space for me in Hollis's life? But there is definitely 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.080 some underlying tension there, and you see periods of it 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:13.360 boiling over in the relationship between Tatum and Duane. Now Tatum, 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.800 when we talk about going back to like what are 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:20.720 people's primary coping mechanisms, what we see from Tatum is 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.280 that she is very avoidant. Right, So, what we learned 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.360 throughout the show with her is that she's having a 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:31.440 health scare and mom died of breast cancer and she 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.040 has gone in for her mammogram and they found a 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.160 lump and so what a lot of what we see 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.640 throughout the show is her waiting on the results of this, 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.760 but she does not necessarily disclose this very early on. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.160 She is kind of sitting on the results and not 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:50.000 really wanting to kind of introduce this topic to Hollis 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.080 and the other women right now. Hollis is, of course 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.360 the person she has the closer relationship with, but she 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.440 is really not wanting to face this right and really 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.160 wanting to kind of have this be something that she's 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.920 dealing with herself and with her husband, until eventually we 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.160 do see that she has to tell Holliss about what's 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.480 going on. When we think about drew Anne's primary coping strategy, 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.720 it is throwing herself into work, right, which I think 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.440 is a pattern many of us can recognize, probably in ourselves, 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.360 that if I just throw all of my energy into 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.800 working and doing what I need to do and really 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.560 focusing on my career, then I don't have to deal 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.880 with all these other things in my life. Now, we 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.680 also see drew Anne has a history of being a 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.600 college athlete. She played soccer, when it sounds like her 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.240 career was ended after an injury, and so we also 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.400 see throughout the show that she has some lingering leg 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.959 issues related to I'm guessing her career as a soccer player, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.640 but that she also wants to downplay this, and I 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.760 think that that is something that is also important for 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.240 us to pay attention to for our own lives, right, 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.000 Like how often we will ignore signs from our bodies 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.680 or downplay things until it gets too severe when we 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.319 really cannot ignore it anymore. So that's Drew Anne's primary 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.040 coping strategy, is that she is throwing herself into work 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.000 and really ignoring some red flags that her body is 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.960 giving her. And then Brooke is the mom friend, right, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.720 so it seems like Brooke and Hollis have developed a 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.440 relationship through the relationship that their kids have had, are 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.480 just going to similar schools, and so Brooke is the 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.679 not newest friend, but she is a newer friend to 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.800 the circle, and it feels like there is a more 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.840 tenuous relationship between Hollis and Brooke. Now, Brooke, I think 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.520 has come into more of the limelight because she was 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.240 available the night that Matthew died, Like she was the 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.040 one who was at the hospital with Hollis, and so 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.720 it feels like there has been more significance and more 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.240 maybe gravity added to that relationship as by virtue of 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.640 her being there throughout Mathew passing and being there for 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:55.640 the funeral and really being there to kind of hold 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.880 Hollis up. But it doesn't feel like there is the 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.040 same history there, and so I think throughout the show, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.480 what we see is that Brooke is trying to figure 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.640 out where does she actually fit given that she doesn't 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.760 have the same history that drou Anne and Tatum have 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.559 with Hollis. When we think about the primary coping strategy 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.640 for Brooke, it feels like shopping is a big one 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.040 for her. Right so we kind of are introduced to 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.840 Brooke when she is taking in all of these packages 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.640 from her porch that she's just ordered and then once 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.400 she finds out that she's invited to this weekend on Nantucket, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.199 her immediate response is, Oh, I'm going to need all 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.040 new outfits, right, So it definitely feels like Brooke is 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.560 kind of coping with the things in her life through shopping. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.559 What we find out throughout the show also is that 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.319 Brooke is struggling in her marriage. So her husband has 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.120 been accused of being inappropriate I think with an intern 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.199 in the office, and so it feels like she is 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.560 kind of questioning what's actually happening in her marriage, but 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.120 also wanting to present to the world that things are okay. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.280 I also find out, though, is that Brooke is questioning 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.439 her sexuality right, And so there are lots of instances 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.640 throughout the show where we see her kind of introduce 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.679 this conversation and kind of test it out with other 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.440 people to see their reaction, and by the end we 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.800 find out that she has made the decision to leave 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.959 her marriage and explore a relationship with a woman, right, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.280 Like she kind of leans fully into that. But I 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.880 thought that that was a really interesting nuance that added 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.360 to the character, which was really good to see and 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:33.959 think about, Like what it might look like you know, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.640 I think we often think about kind of exploring sexuality 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.280 as something that happens early on in life. But the 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.520 truth is that you can explore your sexuality at any 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.000 point in your life. And so I thought it was 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.760 really cool that we saw a woman in middle age 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.600 think about like, oh, is this something that I'm interested in? 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.280 What might it be like to pursue that. So very 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.559 interesting character development there with Brooke. Now, if you follow 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.040 me on social media, and you absolutely should, because I 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.000 talk to a little bit about this on Instagram. I'm 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.080 at hello, doctor Joy. But one of the main questions 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.640 that I had leaving this series was why in the 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.160 world would Gig actually show up to this weekend at 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.760 Hollis's house. So Gig is the newest quote unquote friend 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.040 in this circle, but Gig is someone who Hollis has 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.720 met through the internet, so she is a follower of 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.040 her page and they have connected online after Matthew passed. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.040 Now what we find out, of course, very early on, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.960 is that Gig actually was having an affair with Matthew 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:40.960 before he passed and connected with Hollis after he passed 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.000 for some reasons that feel unknown. I think when I'm 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.600 thinking about like, what in the world would lead gig 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.640 to actually showing up to this woman's house after she 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.240 knows she has had the affair and Hollis does not 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.679 know this. I'm led to think about a couple of 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.480 different things, right, So one, I think she wanted to 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.560 suss out out like who was this person that Matthew 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.959 had built alike with, right, so a comparison with okay, 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.440 the wife versus the mistress, and like, who is this 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.440 person that he chose? Now, what we do find out 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.240 later in the show is that though they had the 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.200 affair and Matthew was actually leaving the day of his 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.040 accident he died in a car accident, he was leaving 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.440 to go to the airport with and meet Gigi, I 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.560 think in Paris. But he has like second thoughts as 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.360 he's having a conversation leaving the house with Hollis, and 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.800 I think is reconsidering actually working on his marriage again. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.160 And so what we find out is that on the way, 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:44.480 while like briefly I guess before the accident happens, he 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.080 actually called Gigi to let her know that he was 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.960 planning to go back to his wife and that he 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.800 was ending things with her. And so I also think 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.120 that a part of what Gigi was wanting to do 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.360 was to kind of see, Okay, who is this person 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.120 that he chose over me? But I also think that 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:07.240 there was a deep longing for closeness to Hollis that 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.440 Gig it feels like maybe had, right So, it feels 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.760 like there is not a lot of support necessarily in 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.160 Gig's life. We do see that she has a friendship 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.840 with someone so Gig is a pilot. We see that 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.400 she has a friendship with someone who is a flight 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.200 attendant for her same airline, but we don't know very 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.240 much else about her life, right so it does feel 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.960 like there is a loneliness, and it does feel like 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.920 in another world, in some other very different circumstance, she 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.880 and Hollis actually could have had a relationship, right Like, 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.920 it feels like she could have been someone who became 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.120 Hollis's newest friend in this circle, but under these circumstances 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.280 is incredibly suspect. So another part of what I feel 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.720 like Gigi was attempting to do in going to this weekend, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:03.040 I actually think that even Gigi did feel for Hollis 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.360 right like she wanted to be there to try to 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.040 like comfort her in her grief, But of course this 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.480 is very complicated because you have had an affair with 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.960 this woman's husband. So I think that in some ways 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.880 she wanted to be there to support, but it was 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.920 also very complicated. I also think that this was a 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.440 way of Gigi getting some closure on this situation, because 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.560 this is an affair that likely not a lot of 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.040 people knew about, and so what does that look like 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.160 to have this grief that you really can't be public 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.920 about because you were involved in a relationship with somebody who, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.840 like societally, would not be acceptable, right, And so I 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.560 think that this was a way of her processing her 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.200 own grief through supporting Hollis. But I also think that 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.720 eventually it got to a place where she actually wanted 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.280 to try to be there for Hollis and did actually 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.320 care for her as a friend, even though the situation 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.280 through which she was introduced to Hollis was definitely not 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.800 on up and up. But I still think it was 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.560 very curious that she made the decision to go to 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.480 the weekend in the first place. There is a little 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.760 bit of a breakdown of the characters that we meet here. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.680 Now I want to move into talking about maybe more 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.760 of the deeper themes that I kind of saw emerge 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.720 from watching the five Star Weekend. And of course one 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.920 of the biggest is grief. Right, So, we of course 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:36.000 have the immediate grief of Hollis losing her husband, Matthew 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.360 and the car accident. So what does the grief mean 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.640 for her? What does the grief mean for Caroline, her daughter, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.880 and so of course they are trying to figure out 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.400 where this story starts. Is six months after the car accident, right, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.840 so they've had six months of living without dad and husband. 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.640 I think when we think about like the timeline for grief, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.000 and we know there is no timeline, but six months 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.600 post losing your husband feels very very still sudden, right, Like, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.399 I don't think that anybody would necessarily expect that she 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.840 would be back up in front of her online community. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.119 One of the earliest scenes that we see with her 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.360 that she's doing like a morning show. She's throwing herself 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.919 back into work kind of after her husband's laws, and 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.199 it feels like something else that we see as a 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.320 way for her to manage her grief is that she 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.639 is really an expert at compartmentalizing, right, Like, Okay, I 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.560 can go do this thing, and then I can tend 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.040 to the grief afterwards. We also hear her talk about 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.399 this folder that she has created on her computer that 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.879 is almost like a checklist or a to do list 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.040 of how to manage grief right now. Of course, there 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.160 are lots of different resources and things that can be 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:48.200 helpful to manage the more difficult parts of a grief experience, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.919 but the truth is that a lot of it is 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:57.359 just sitting with the yucky, difficult, really sad, sad experiences 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.239 of losing somebody who has been important to you. You 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.520 the really difficult experiences of sitting with yourself after you've 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.520 lost someone. And so all of the checklists that we 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.399 think we might be able to complete, all of the 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.359 breathing exercises, and all of the things right like, those 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.240 things can be helpful, but there is no recipe, no 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.679 kind of nice bow that we can tie on the 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.399 experience of grief. And I think that that is what 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.840 we see a lot of with Hollis throughout this experience. 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.840 You know, So she plans this weekend as a way 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.760 of her really it feels like distracting herself from the grief, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.479 and really, you know, maybe wanting some support, but it 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.320 isn't as if you know, and of course she has 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.600 like planned out this perfect itinerary of things for them 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.959 to do, and it doesn't necessarily include like any like 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.000 downtime for her to just talk with her friends about 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.800 how she's feeling, which Tatum calls to her attention, right like, Hey, 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.360 you brought us all here, You brought the most important 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.000 people in your life together, and it feels like you 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.800 don't actually want to talk about this, right, And I 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.399 think it brings up an interesting question because you know, 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:08.040 Tatum kind of being her longest standing friend and already 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.600 supporting her through an experience of brief right because she 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.200 moved in with her after her mom has I think 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.520 she kind of knows maybe a little bit more than 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.679 the rest of the group around what kind of support 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.320 Hollis actually needs. But does she actually want to lean 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.879 into it? And I think for Hollis the answer is no, 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.520 she doesn't. But Tatum, I think, and the rest of 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.439 the group to certain extents also recognize, Hey, like, you 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.320 haven't really talked about this. And I think it was 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.000 also really interesting that at one point we hear Holli 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.879 talk about the fact that she felt more comfortable talking 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.760 to Gigi, who is the newest friend, than maybe she 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.439 did talking to her friends who had been there for 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.960 longer parts of her life, right, And I don't think 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.040 that that's necessarily uncommon, you know, especially when you are 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.280 dealing with something so difficult, Maybe it feels easier to 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.320 talk to people who don't have all of the history, 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.240 who don't know maybe the complicated stories of what has happened. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.600 That sometimes it just feels a little easier to talk 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.320 to somebody who's a stranger. But I do think that 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:12.119 Duanne and Tatum, and maybe to even some point Brooke 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.480 felt something related to the fact that she found it 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:20.879 easier to talk to gg More from our conversation after 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:32.520 the break, so, you know, we see Hollis talk about like, Okay, 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.200 you want me to talk about it, fine, I can 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.199 talk about it, but she still isn't really wanting to 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.200 go there. Now we do eventually see after she finds 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.119 out about the affair and all of those things, we 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.840 see her go a little further. But I think that 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.520 she is a great example of how we can have 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.760 all of these feelings, especially related to greed, that we 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.919 just refuse to deal with and kind of keep pushing 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.720 and pushing until they pop up in lots of different ways. Right, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.840 So we see her basically have this meltdown in the 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.720 kitchen where she's breaking things and throwing things on the floor, 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.080 And I think that sometimes, though that may be an 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.960 extreme example, that is an example of what can happen 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.399 when we try to bottle grief up and try to 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.880 avoid dealing with it in lots of different ways until 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.959 it finally demands to have a voice and a presence 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.080 in our lives. And so that's one of the ways 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.560 that it can look. So, of course, like I said, 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.520 we do have the grief related to the loss of Matthew, 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.080 but I think that there is grief that we see 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.199 in lots of different ways in throughout the show. And 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.879 one of the ways that I think grief presents is 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.280 in the way that your relationships transition throughout your life. Right, So, 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:41.919 you know, I think that there is kind of the 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.800 playful banter with Tatum Andrew Ayne around who is Hollis's 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.640 best friend, But I think that there is grief related 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.480 to your best friend moving on, going to college in 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.840 a different place, and developing relationships with other people that 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.680 you aren't necessarily a part of and so there is 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.199 a grief related to those transitions and those changes that 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.000 happen in our lives related to our friendship. I don't 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.240 think that we always call it that, and I think 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.520 we've talked about this here on the podcast before. I 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.639 definitely talked about it in Sister the Heels, where I 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.480 talk about, you know, our relationships change, and I think 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.160 a lot of our reactions to those changes are often 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.440 grief reactions, but we don't actually recognize it in that 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.199 because we don't actually recognize it as that because we 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.560 typically only think about griefs as related to the loss 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:34.520 or the death of someone. But grief reactions can actually 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.960