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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul.

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Speaker 1: Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking over the past few days that everybody

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Speaker 1: we meet, to one degree or another, participates in something

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Speaker 1: that could be called a secret or occulted organization. It

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Speaker 1: may be some like group you're a member of during

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Speaker 1: your schooling days. It might be some weird you know

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Speaker 1: class organization should like the various orders that aristocrats have. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It might just be fandom for a particular artist, right,

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Speaker 1: or something you're interested in. Or it might be a

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Speaker 1: bond built upon surviving a particular type of trauma. Right.

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Speaker 1: It might be something entirely extracurricular. But we're all members

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Speaker 1: of all these various different things, and that's that's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily a bad thing. Right, Just because a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people are into some like weird Cadillac forum on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean they're automatically the illuminati, right, Like, are are

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Speaker 1: we all kind of into weird stuff? Yeah? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, just by by virtue of being podcasters, were

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Speaker 1: sort of softly initiated into a weird kind of uh

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Speaker 1: cabal of sorts. Right, that's a good point. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: thought of that, but that's a good point. Sorry, Sorry,

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Speaker 1: who God? Anyway, today's this will make sense later or not.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode focuses on a particular school of thought. It's

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Speaker 1: an organization that prizes itself on exclusivity, on the idea

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Speaker 1: of initiation, a creating knowledge incrementally, and yes, a form

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Speaker 1: of magic. So today's question, what is the Golden Dawn. Uh?

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts. Full name of it, the Hermetic

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Speaker 1: Order of the Golden Dawn. Today we see it as

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Speaker 1: an odd uh, an odd group somewhat forgotten by the mainstream,

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Speaker 1: but it played a fundamental role in today's magical organizations.

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Speaker 1: The weirdest thing about it was at the time, in

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Speaker 1: the nineties, eighteen eighties or so, it was well, I

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Speaker 1: think it kind of functioned like a social network. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you guys think as as you dive in.

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Speaker 1: But you know, with magic, right, it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an augmented reality the more we think about it. Similar

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Speaker 1: to the Latitude Society, they took ideas that we're a

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Speaker 1: unique combination of ancient, pre existing spit virtual traditions and

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Speaker 1: then other stuff that was happening right before it in

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Speaker 1: the realm of science and spiritualism. So like the Cabbala, Egyptian,

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Speaker 1: Greek mysteries, several strands of early Christian thought, all these

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Speaker 1: esoteric traditions combined in the late eighteen eighties, and the

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Speaker 1: story of the Origin, We'll let you be the judge.

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Speaker 1: The story of the Origin feels a little sketchy. Yeah, indeed, Uh,

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Speaker 1: whod God? Okay, right? Who God? Sorry? Ben, you gotta

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Speaker 1: help with out here. What is this acronym? I love

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Speaker 1: the way that's that's maybe lazy in the notes, it's

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Speaker 1: just shorthand for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dollars.

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Speaker 1: They didn't call themselves who God. Well, we talked off Mike,

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Speaker 1: how that would be a fantastic name for likely a

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Speaker 1: Florida rapper, perhaps the Gulf Coast, I believe is what

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Speaker 1: you said, Ben, yeah, I think so, Gulf Coast coast

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Speaker 1: out there. It's a great idea. So so, who'd got

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Speaker 1: Hermitic Order of the Golden Down was founded in eight

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Speaker 1: seven by a Freemason by the name of William Wynn

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Speaker 1: Wescott's www. Lots of fun alliteration there. Also in this

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Speaker 1: group of founders was Samuel Liddell McGregor, Matthews UH and

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Speaker 1: William Robert Woodman the least impressive of those three names,

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Speaker 1: and all of them were Mason's Yes, indeed correct, a

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Speaker 1: group of Mason's UH. And allegedly they based their founding

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Speaker 1: of this group on a series of writings that were

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Speaker 1: collectively known as the Cipher Manuscripts, which is definitely the

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Speaker 1: name of the first album from Hood God, no question

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Speaker 1: about that. Um. So, these Cipher Manuscripts are a group

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Speaker 1: of sixty different UH folios. I guess you could call

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Speaker 1: them outlining a series of magical intention rights or rituals, right.

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Speaker 1: A ritual is something that is intended to produce a

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Speaker 1: result through UH synchronized incantations or something or movement. Various

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Speaker 1: things can go into a ritual. This podcast contains quite

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Speaker 1: a few rituals. In fact, you might not even realize that. Um,

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Speaker 1: but these things were corresponding to the spiritual elements of air, earth, water,

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Speaker 1: and fire. Um yeah, it was. I got to say

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Speaker 1: their powers combined, they are in fact captain planet. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you you can think about these rituals and rights,

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Speaker 1: the things that were contained in these manuscripts somewhat somewhat

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Speaker 1: like a mixtape. Really, uh, it's it's it's an anthology.

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Speaker 1: We already mentioned it above, all of these varying thoughts

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Speaker 1: and schools of thought kind of going together into one thing,

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Speaker 1: all types of different what you would call magical theory,

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Speaker 1: either with a C or a K, mostly with a K,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it is is just steeped in symbolism.

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Speaker 1: So when you when you're looking at these these things,

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Speaker 1: the reason why hoot God is so interesting and funny

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Speaker 1: to me, it reminds me of Minerva and representations of

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Speaker 1: the owl. And we were just speaking about this on

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Speaker 1: a listener mail episode Esoteric Wisdom, right. Yeah, and and

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Speaker 1: really the this this this manuscript, Cipher manuscript. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, uh, beginner's manual, but it's also the advanced

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Speaker 1: stuff kind of altogether in one. It's just everything you

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Speaker 1: need to operate as a member of the Hermetic Order

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Speaker 1: of Golden Dawn. Yeah. So the if you look at

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Speaker 1: the water marks on on these folios, on the actual

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Speaker 1: text themselves, it looks like they were created back in

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Speaker 1: eighteen o nine. So the that's one theory. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: are written in code, and like you said, Matt, they

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Speaker 1: contain diagrams, symbols, but they also contain this written text.

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Speaker 1: It's not a particularly difficult code to crack. Numbers are

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Speaker 1: substituted by Hebrew letters, so for example, a left equals

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Speaker 1: one according to the Order's own records, Westcott himself discovered

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Speaker 1: slash decoded the text in or around seven. Like we said,

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Speaker 1: when the Order was founded. It's important to note that

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Speaker 1: these founding members, they all had day jobs. That's going

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Speaker 1: to be a complicating factor. In just a bit, Westcott

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Speaker 1: claimed that he had just found these have been given them.

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Speaker 1: He did not say that he had written them, though

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Speaker 1: later historians would suspect. Indeed, some of his colleagues would

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Speaker 1: accuse him of just writing them himself and then claiming

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Speaker 1: some more prestigious authorship. You could have also possibly been

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Speaker 1: written by Edward Bullward Litton, who was a popular author

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Speaker 1: at the time associated with some of these occult beliefs

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Speaker 1: are a lot of fans of his work were also

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Speaker 1: fans of these sorts of magical practices. Today, you'll recognize

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Speaker 1: Bullward Litton most easily as the inspiration of one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite contests, the Bullward Litten Fiction Contest. Have you

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Speaker 1: guys heard about this? Another great name? Though, I suggest

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Speaker 1: we all consider h entering the contest just if you're

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Speaker 1: bored of an afternoon one day. It's an official annual

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Speaker 1: contest to write the worst opening sentence of any possible novel.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I haven't won yet. Like you, you try

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Speaker 1: to imagine what the worst novel ever would be, and

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Speaker 1: then you write the first sentence for that novel. That

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Speaker 1: should give you a sense of the kind of writing

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Speaker 1: bull Warre Litton did when he was alive. Do grammatical

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Speaker 1: errors count towards the badness of it? Or does it? Do?

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Speaker 1: You just have to get that stuff right? It's just

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Speaker 1: the arrangement or no? I guess the the words that

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Speaker 1: you put in there grammatically correct just need to be terrible.

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Speaker 1: You know, sky's the limit? I say, get creative with it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This the winner of twenties contest was Lisa Klueber of

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Speaker 1: San Francisco. This is the winning sentence, her dear John

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Speaker 1: mss flapped done ambiguously in the windy breeze, hanging like

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Speaker 1: a pizza menu on the doorknob. Of my mind, I

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Speaker 1: thought that was all right. They won. Anyway, that feels

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Speaker 1: more exciting than it should. Disagree with me. So many

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Speaker 1: like that. One of the things with the little door

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Speaker 1: knob holes in it right, also completely unrelated. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about proprietary eponyms. I learned that door knob is one.

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Speaker 1: Door knob is like a brand name. Anyway, So back

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Speaker 1: to these texts. We don't know who really wrote them,

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Speaker 1: but there are some guesses. Uh. We're going to give

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Speaker 1: you the version of the order itself, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: give you some of the critics ideas. So Westcott told

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Speaker 1: his compatriots that not only had he decoded these texts,

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Speaker 1: which illuminated various mysteries, but in the process of deciphering

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Speaker 1: this stuff, he found the address of a German aristocrat

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Speaker 1: and Rosicrucian named Anna Sprangele. Anna Sprangele was not your

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Speaker 1: average risk deocrat. Westcott believed that she had the ability

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Speaker 1: to contact some sort of supernatural and or extra dimensional entity,

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Speaker 1: which they were collectively referred to as the Secret Chiefs,

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Speaker 1: which is a term I had never heard before. Like

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Speaker 1: we've heard Machine Eies, Right, there's a band called the

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Speaker 1: Secret Chiefs, like kind of a weird almost like Mr

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Speaker 1: was actually related to Mr Bungle, but kind of like

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Speaker 1: almost like a metal jazz band called the Secret Chiefs.

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Speaker 1: I never knew where that term came from. I always

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Speaker 1: thought was the oddest name. Yeah, the Hidden Kings. This

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Speaker 1: is very interesting. Uh all right, so allegedly the Hidden

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Speaker 1: Kings are the ones who wrote this thing or inspired,

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Speaker 1: uh the guided the hands of the person who did

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Speaker 1: write them. Right. And this isn't necessarily a new idea,

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Speaker 1: the idea of divinely inspired written text, right, this is um.

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Speaker 1: This is something that dates back to religions of old.

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Speaker 1: It continues today various organizations. The Secret Chiefs themselves are

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Speaker 1: specifically mentioned in earlier works, like one called The Cloud

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Speaker 1: upon the Sanctuary back in seventeen by a name that

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Speaker 1: Noel I will defer to your German in pronouncing, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this my my young German boy, all uh,

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Speaker 1: let's see. This would be cal Von eckott Schauson Calm

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Speaker 1: von eckott Schausen. Maybe it's more of an Ecotts house. Um,

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Speaker 1: maybe I may be doing too hard of an s h.

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Speaker 1: But I've given it mile. This is the best I

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Speaker 1: can do. I like both of them, so I love it.

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Speaker 1: So this gentleman allegedly wrote this thing way way before,

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Speaker 1: well not that far before, if it was, in fact,

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Speaker 1: you know, written in eighteen o nine, but it was,

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Speaker 1: as we said, discovered eight seven. So he wrote this

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Speaker 1: work The Cloud upon the Sanctuary in seventeen nineties sev

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Speaker 1: something like that exactly. So we see a rough timeline

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Speaker 1: that we can trace through the use of these particular phrases, right,

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Speaker 1: the secret Chiefs, hidden Kings, stuff like that. The Golden

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Speaker 1: Dawn did differ from some earlier, arguably similar groups, and

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Speaker 1: even differed from some groups that would exist around the

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Speaker 1: same time period because it did not restrict membership along

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Speaker 1: the lines of gender, unlike Freemasonry. Women were treated as

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Speaker 1: equals and allowed into this order. It's progressive for its time.

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Speaker 1: So things started going wrong pretty quickly. Spoiler Westcott had

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Speaker 1: to leave leadership of the order when he literally lost

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Speaker 1: some papers in a cab he just forgot to take them.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like leaving your phone in an uber,

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Speaker 1: but you have the necronomicon with you on your phone

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Speaker 1: or something, or your phone. Your phone is the necronomicon.

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Speaker 1: Your phone is that is the necronomicon. Uh. So the

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Speaker 1: Secret Chiefs did out appear to help him out, uh

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Speaker 1: as far as his day job goes. Because word got

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Speaker 1: to his employers. They discovered his connection to this group

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Speaker 1: that at the time would seem pretty odd, and they

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Speaker 1: gave him a choice. They said, look, you can keep

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Speaker 1: working here and stop messing around with magic WW or

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Speaker 1: you can leave because you will be fired. So Westcott

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Speaker 1: thought about it. We don't know too many of the specifics.

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Speaker 1: Ultimately he said, you know, I'm gonna stick with my

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Speaker 1: career as a coroner. Uh. And I am going to

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Speaker 1: still be associated, you know, low key with this group,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to be an active prominent member

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Speaker 1: because I got bills to pay. He was a corner

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Speaker 1: and he was dabbling in magic. Does that mean he

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Speaker 1: was was he stealing organs and other gutty parts for

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Speaker 1: from black magic c k rituals? I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a necromancer that's a pretty good place

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Speaker 1: to start. Yeah, no one's gonna miss an errand spleen

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Speaker 1: here and there. That's that's true. Uh, you know I

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Speaker 1: thought the same thing too. I couldn't find and tell

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Speaker 1: us if you have an inside scoop folks, but I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find any reports to that. Of course, we're we're

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Speaker 1: joshing a bit. We don't want to just accuse somebody

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Speaker 1: of necromancy. No, no, no, I'm just look just stating

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Speaker 1: the fact that if there are corpses near your person

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Speaker 1: as part of your day job, it would be helpful

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Speaker 1: if one were interested in some of those dark arts. Yes,

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Speaker 1: well said, and it's very good point. Also. I just

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Speaker 1: love that in the context of this episode, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like we have in the past ruined someone's lives by

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Speaker 1: accusing them of being a necromancer, and now we're taking

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Speaker 1: pains to make sure that's not the case. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: you're right circumstantial if nothing else, it's definitely uh, the

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Speaker 1: pieces are there, right. Um, we just don't know what

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Speaker 1: sort of picture the puzzle makes. Last thing, it would

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Speaker 1: just it would be a headline in like the Mirror

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Speaker 1: or something local area person accused of necromancy. Uh lose

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Speaker 1: his job over kerfuffle, and no one would ever think

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Speaker 1: about it again. Just say yeah, yeah, first paragraph, it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: local corridor was discovered after leaving magical documents and grimoires

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Speaker 1: in uber So uh yeah, you know what, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should write for the Mirror. But look, this this is

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Speaker 1: a true story. And the rest of it, the rest

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Speaker 1: of the story of the group's origin, uh and it's evolution,

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Speaker 1: quickly descends into a story of obscure conspiracies, wheels within wheels,

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Speaker 1: competing motivations, competing magical philosophies, secret societies forming like within

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Speaker 1: secret societies, and then a study of just good old

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Speaker 1: fashioned backstabbing. But what actually happened to the Golden Dawn,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps most most importantly, did any of the magic work?

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Speaker 1: We'll dive into this afterword from our sponsors. Here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Let's tackle those two questions separately, right,

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Speaker 1: what actually happened to the organization? And you know, how

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Speaker 1: did the organization work? And then we'll get to we'll

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Speaker 1: get to the magic. We have to get to the

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Speaker 1: magic at some point. So yeah, let's talk about how

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Speaker 1: popular the Old Golden Dawn was in it's heyday if

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Speaker 1: you will. Um, it was a big part of Victorian society.

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Speaker 1: Strangely enough, you you wouldn't imagine that magic was was

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Speaker 1: running wild in regular society. Well, yes, somewhat, not not fully,

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Speaker 1: but somewhat right. There are all kinds of notable members

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Speaker 1: from the top of society all the way down to

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Speaker 1: the bottom. There is one member named Annie Horne Neman. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This person actually built Ireland's Abbey Theater. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: heard of that? That's a famous theater that exists. This

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Speaker 1: person built that. She was also a member of the

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Speaker 1: Golden Dawn. Pretty cool, huh. And then and then there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of poets and authors involved, like William Butler.

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Speaker 1: Yates is probably one of the most famous members of

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Speaker 1: the Golden Dawn, or one of the most well remembered

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Speaker 1: in the modern day. And he is on record saying

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Speaker 1: that other than writing poetry, which he's kind of known for,

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Speaker 1: the other most important pursuit of his life was his

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Speaker 1: membership in the Golden Dawn, which is a big thing

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Speaker 1: to say. Other authors like Algernon Blackwood were also members.

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Speaker 1: And then well to do people, uh, scientists of folks

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Speaker 1: who were practicing forms of meditation things like that, Folks

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Speaker 1: who are just interested in hanging out and talking about

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Speaker 1: this stuff really quickly. I just want a minute, I believe,

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Guys, that Alex, our buddy

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Speaker 1: Alex Williams podcast Ephemeral did like a special Halloween episode

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Speaker 1: where they did a reading of an Algernon Blackwood story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we were literally talking about that a few hours ago,

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Speaker 1: about how influential Algernon was and and is still on

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Speaker 1: like horror writing essentially, right, Yeah, Yeah, a tremendously influential

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Speaker 1: horror writer. So it makes sense that in his uh,

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Speaker 1: non authorial time, he would be interested in these sorts

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Speaker 1: of spiritual philosophical explorations. But of course there is one

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Speaker 1: other person associated with with the Order of the Golden

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Speaker 1: Dawn uh in a controversial way. This is a guy

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Speaker 1: who you are doubtlessly familiar with if you've listened to

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Speaker 1: our show before. He's occasionally referred to as the Great Beast.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Alistair Crowley. I'm saying Crowley on purpose. You

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Speaker 1: could call him Crowley if you want, but after the

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Speaker 1: comments on YouTube, we I will forever see his name

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Speaker 1: be traumatized. And then say cruelly. It's cruelly. But but

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Speaker 1: you you're aware of that name, and you're likely aware

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Speaker 1: of the Golden Dawn because of him, at least I

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Speaker 1: certainly was. And we'll we'll, we'll dive into his association,

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Speaker 1: which I think gets a little bit exaggerated sometimes given

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Speaker 1: the rest of his other work post Golden down But

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Speaker 1: the downfall of this organization, or the troubles it would

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Speaker 1: have in its evolution, these were all present in the

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Speaker 1: early days, in its formation. For the first few years,

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Speaker 1: it was just that it was a single group of

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Speaker 1: people studying the Cipher manuscripts together, right, and they were

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Speaker 1: reading this stuff saying, what do you think about this

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Speaker 1: philosophy of air? You know what I mean? Or this

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Speaker 1: passage about fire. This group, this initial group, would later

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Speaker 1: be called the outer order or the first order. And

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Speaker 1: all you did in the first order was get graded

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Speaker 1: by fellow members and superiors in terms of your understanding

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Speaker 1: of the of the arts and philosophies explored in those

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Speaker 1: initial texts we mentioned, earth, air, firewater. You began as

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Speaker 1: a neophyte, you eventually progressed through several ranks to become

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Speaker 1: a kind of intermediate. Why is there an intermediate thing.

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Speaker 1: If the outer order is like complete, well, it's because

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Speaker 1: in a secret society kind of begins. In this secret society,

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Speaker 1: it calls itself the Inner Order or the second Order,

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Speaker 1: the cool part of the cool kids club. And uh,

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Speaker 1: this second order is entirely composed of people who have

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Speaker 1: who have literally passed a written examination about the stuff

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Speaker 1: from the the first order. And you can can join

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Speaker 1: up with the first order, but getting into the second

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Speaker 1: order requires social proof. Uh. The other people that are

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Speaker 1: already in the order have to dig you. They have

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Speaker 1: to think you're on the same page. And that's where

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Speaker 1: you start learning what we as outsiders would probably call

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Speaker 1: practical or applied magic and ritual. But it doesn't end there.

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Speaker 1: They have three ranks Adeptis, Minor, major, and at the

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Speaker 1: top exempt us. Uh, there is a third order. However,

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Speaker 1: this is really where it gets really weird. If if

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Speaker 1: the third Order is real, then Matt, I was thinking

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Speaker 1: of our conversations about that excellent video game Control that

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Speaker 1: you would recommend it a while back. Um, if the

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Speaker 1: third Order is real, it's composed of things that are

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Speaker 1: like those extra dimensional monsters in Control. Totally, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's what do we call the secret chiefs right like

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Speaker 1: they they exist in another realm, in another place, but

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Speaker 1: that they are the power structure that is above even

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Speaker 1: the adept in the exempt Yeah. And if you are

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Speaker 1: exemptis or if you're high enough in your understanding and

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Speaker 1: your membership in the second order, then you can function

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Speaker 1: as an intermediate for these otherwise unobservable entities. And this,

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Speaker 1: of course wrinkles some feathers, especially when Mather, the guy

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Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, when he starts being a very strict leader,

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Speaker 1: and he's like the he's like the voice of these

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Speaker 1: entities and no one else can communicate with them except

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Speaker 1: for him. He brings the divine knowledge. Oh, he's got

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Speaker 1: the hotline or what was it called. He's like in

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Speaker 1: that room that's separated from everything, and you can you

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Speaker 1: pick up the phone and you can talk to the

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Speaker 1: board that's him. Uh So, as you can see, this

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Speaker 1: tendency for in groups to create even more insular groups

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Speaker 1: within themselves eventually led detention, distrust, internal conflict, and ultimately

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Speaker 1: these conflicts led to the downfall of the organization. After

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Speaker 1: it's wait for it, golden age, It did have a

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Speaker 1: golden I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We had to. It did

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Speaker 1: have a golden age though, because at the time, you

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Speaker 1: know it, it was something that people accept like it

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Speaker 1: was controversial at first, but eventually it became an accepted

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Speaker 1: thing in society. It wasn't seen as necessarily in opposition

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Speaker 1: to the status quo, if that makes sense, like it

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Speaker 1: would be. It was no longer something you would necessarily

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Speaker 1: get fired for the fact it might have made you

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Speaker 1: look kind of cool. Uh. And the thing in despite

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Speaker 1: these earlier problems, the Golden Dawn, some version of it

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Speaker 1: exists today in the modern day of multiple places. It

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Speaker 1: is possible to become a member, and we can tell

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Speaker 1: you how. Towards the end of today's show, I can't wait, man,

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Speaker 1: is this like really magic or is this sort of

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Speaker 1: symbolic magic like for the sake of a club and camaraderie,

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Speaker 1: Like do they really think they're affecting outcomes of like

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Speaker 1: world events or like how deep does the scale? It's

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Speaker 1: a great question. Let's get to the magic, right. This

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Speaker 1: is so we've got we've got the backgrounds. All the

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Speaker 1: stuff we talked about did really happen, But what kind

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Speaker 1: of magic were these members? Practicing magic can mean a

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Speaker 1: million different things. If you read up on the history

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Speaker 1: of the group. It's easy to get deterred because it

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Speaker 1: falls into a lot of talk about structure organization. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of foreign phrases, a lot of jargon terminology,

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Speaker 1: things like that. So it's easy, it's easy to get

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Speaker 1: turned off by that, but it's crucial to note again,

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Speaker 1: like Matt said earlier, Uh, the Golden Dawn did borrow

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Speaker 1: heavily from earlier spiritual belief systems, but it was not

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Speaker 1: in itself a religion. When we define magic, we're inherently uh.

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Speaker 1: Our definition is inherently relying upon a specific cultural lens.

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Speaker 1: Like there's practical magic, right, Can I make that? Can

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Speaker 1: I make this thing float? Can I have precognitive dreams?

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Speaker 1: Or send my consciousness away from my body? And then

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Speaker 1: there's the more metaphorical stuff like who are we in

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Speaker 1: the universe? And what what is this whole reality thing?

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Speaker 1: So they had maybe we start with the metaphysical stuff.

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Speaker 1: They had a number of metaphysical pursuits at play. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. So here the idea is that through

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Speaker 1: ceremony and ritual like we were talking about, uh, an

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Speaker 1: individual might be able to achieve um kind of that

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Speaker 1: esoteric knowledge, that knowledge of the of the gods perhaps

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Speaker 1: or like of the spheres that otherwise would be completely

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Speaker 1: out of reach for mere mortals, right, the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that would like blow your mind up if if

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Speaker 1: if someone that was not prepared to receive it did. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that includes things like being able to leave your

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Speaker 1: body or with leave your body spiritually and project your

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Speaker 1: consciousness into other places, a process known as astral projection,

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Speaker 1: um clairvoyance, you know, psychic powers, being able to read

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Speaker 1: people's minds or see the future um or it's very

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Speaker 1: specific to this belief system. Communicating specifically with those secret

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Speaker 1: chiefs you would reach on another plane of existence entirely.

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Speaker 1: Then you get into more abstract kind of philosophical ideas

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Speaker 1: um that are wrapped up in it, things like hidden

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Speaker 1: truths that there's a unity within all the things, those interconnectedness, uh,

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Speaker 1: and things that might at first appear to be a

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Speaker 1: little contradictory, right, yeah, just just a bit. Yates talks

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Speaker 1: about it when he says he describes it as tapping

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Speaker 1: into the single energetic mind, where the single memory of nature,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's we We see this

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Speaker 1: reflected in later ideas about earth as a superorganism, right,

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Speaker 1: the guy a hypothesis and so and similar to that.

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Speaker 1: But really, then from the abstract lens, what they are

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Speaker 1: saying is that magic can be defined as the process

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Speaker 1: of removing limitations and preconceptions. Right, so the alchemy that

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Speaker 1: takes place is an alchemy of cognition more so than

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Speaker 1: an alchemy of metals, right of base metals to gold.

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Speaker 1: You know, it really makes you wonder if they had

424
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: a specialist mage that could, let's say, remove all the

425
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: water from your body, or another one that could infect

426
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: your brain with all of the known and unknown things

427
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: that can possibly happen to your brain. You know, just

428
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: and if you ever come across I don't know, some

429
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: kind of ancient octopus entity like you could get it

430
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: removed from your body and you need a specialist like that.

431
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: I've been watching too much Sabrina. Sorry, I didn't mean

432
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: to watch it. It just happened Sabrina the teenage Way.

433
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: Sorry geez wait, I heard it was really good. Yeah, sorry,

434
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: let's move on. Yeah, what the production value this season is?

435
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: All right, I'll check it out. Man. Uh yeah, So

436
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: if we if we take these claims of extrasensory perception

437
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: and maybe even supernatural powers aside. If we just bracket

438
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 1: that for a second, then some of the descriptions of

439
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: what people are doing here practicing sounds kind of like therapy, right,

440
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a self inventory or what's that

441
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: that great quote describing magic weaponized psychology. So it's it's

442
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 1: maybe not so much changing your external reality as it

443
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: is enhancing your ability to perceive reality as it always was.

444
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: It's allowing you to experience things in a new, more

445
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: conscious way. And I was thinking about this like as

446
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: far as an analogy, Um, remember back when we're doing

447
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: episode on Ireland's Vanishing try Angle and that you did

448
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: something really interesting, which is you went to you went

449
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: through Google Earth, I believe, and you started constructing an overlay,

450
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: a skin to put on the area such that we

451
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: could see different events and see when they occurred. That

452
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: has a lot of similarities with the idea of philosophical

453
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: magic here, right. Oh yeah, I could see that. I

454
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: could definitely see that. It's it's also very reminiscent of

455
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: modern insular groups that we've discussed on this show recently.

456
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Nexium, thinking about our discussions with Mike

457
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: Render thinking about it just has very very very similar

458
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: things where on the surface there appears to be exactly

459
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: what you're saying here been um a self helps kind

460
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: of thing, a self improvement or UM map that you

461
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: get to follow. But at the end of that map

462
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: there's something that is really hidden or or there's something

463
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: you know just very different or a different route to

464
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: get there. I guess yeah, yeah. The Google Earth example, right,

465
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: maybe you apply an overlay or of skin uh on

466
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: an area of Google Earth that you're looking at, and

467
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: maybe you have one map that shows future planned constructions.

468
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: So you go down the street, you you walk around,

469
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: you've got the school map that says this is coming

470
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: in or this is coming in, or alternatively, you could

471
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: have a map that shows how a place looked a

472
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: thousand years ago. This is what London looked like back

473
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: in you know, ten one or something like that. You

474
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: haven't then necessarily changed anything about the outer world, but

475
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: you have changed your perception of it, and therefore your

476
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: actions will reflect and potentially benefit from this new perspective. UH.

477
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: From a secular viewpoint, if we want to look just

478
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: at the group dynamics of this, there could be another

479
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: kind of magic play and we might some people might

480
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: not want us to call it magic, but I I

481
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: think it's not too different social engineering. Right, It's a club. Yeah,

482
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: the the society itself would lead the members of the

483
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: different classes and background there that existed in society. People

484
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: who would be considered by others to be lowly others

485
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: to be you know, notable and and in power essentially

486
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: allowed them to interact and encounter each other in ways

487
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: that they just wouldn't have that opportunity outside of being

488
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: in this group. So it was merit based in some way.

489
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't just you know, cutting off certain parts of

490
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: the social you know, ladder like like, it wasn't closed

491
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: off to the lower the lower classes. Yeah, apparently was

492
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: unusually progressive that way. Yeah. Yeah, And it's not necessarily sinister.

493
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: So I don't want to poison the well. But for

494
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: anybody who's read the Wheel of Time series by Robert

495
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: Jordan's and Brandon Sanderson, there is an organization of bad

496
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: guys in the story. They're called Dark Friends, and they

497
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: they function kind of the same way. They have this

498
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: hidden knowledge. They have signals they use to indicate their

499
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: presence to one another. Um also similar, Matt to the

500
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: Latitude Society. Right, dark friends are fictional and dark friends

501
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: are definitely antagonists, but the this organization itself is not

502
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: necessarily antagonistic, nor is it necessarily sinister. But it definitely

503
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: feels cool to be included. Right, You're like, oh, hey,

504
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: what did you do today? I went to I went

505
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: to the pub, and then I talked with a fellow

506
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: member of my order who happens to be you know,

507
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: the Duke of Middlebury on Sandwich or whatever. Yeah, well

508
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: it reminds me of some of these country clubs that exist,

509
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: or these private health clubs or something where. But in

510
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: this case that the entry fee, the bar to entry

511
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: is different. It's very different. It's more about are you

512
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: are you interested in this more esoteric version of the

513
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: world or or of reality, and that's really all you need.

514
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: You're still gonna have to pay something to get in,

515
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: but it you know, you don't have to spend several

516
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. And of course there were there were cases

517
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: of con artists being involved, uh and impersonating members of

518
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: the Order or claiming to be a temple when they

519
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: were you know, just doing a money grab. But this

520
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: kind of streets, this kind of social circuit moves both ways.

521
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: So not only did it allow people to have access

522
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: to maybe influential individuals they might not have otherwise interacted with. UH,

523
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: it is also possible that these influential individuals themselves could

524
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: have used their presence in the organization to advance their

525
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: own worldly goals. Hey, you know, great meeting today before

526
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: we leave, UH, I need you to help me with

527
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,239
Speaker 1: this important deal. I'm working on things like that. You know.

528
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: It's it's quite possible, and it's also quite possible that

529
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: all of this was occurring at the same time, and

530
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: that different people were prioritizing different things in their relationship

531
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: to the organization. We're gonna pause for word from our sponsor,

532
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: and then we'll return with a well with a great

533
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: example of of when these motivations contradict one another. And

534
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: we're back to talk about the Dark One himself, the

535
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: Great Beast, the Grand Magician, Wizard, high Wizard. I made

536
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: up all those except for the Great Beast, I believe.

537
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley, Alistair Crowley. Here here he is it, ladies

538
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Alistair Crowle uh he he. He was a

539
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 1: out in the late eight hundreds and joined the order

540
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: in eighteen and he is an episode all his own.

541
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: He's one of those kind of phantom topics we mentioned

542
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: earlier because comes up in in various related topics. Uh.

543
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: The Golden Dawn heavily influenced a lot of what he

544
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: would go on to right and a lot of what

545
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: he would go on to claim to believe. He did

546
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: not really care for a lot of the members that

547
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: were already in the organization when he joined up, because

548
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: he thought he thought they were like holding call Field

549
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: style phonies. You know. He said, look, you're you're not

550
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: in this for the real reasons. You're in it because

551
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: it works out for you socially, or it gives you

552
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: um material rewards. You're in the country club. You're in

553
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: the country club. Yeah, exactly. He was saying, this should

554
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: not be country club. It's kind of like the way

555
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: someone might take up golf, not because they care about golf,

556
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: but because it gives them access to money, advance in power.

557
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: So that's what he that's his issue that he had

558
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: with a lot of those members, but they also had

559
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: some issues with him. He was a bit of a libertine,

560
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: a bit of a hedonist, you know, very open about it.

561
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: A little bit, a little bit, yeah, and it wasn't

562
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: ashamed of of his his sexual proclivities. Uh. And it

563
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: was very gregarious and then just you know, really kind

564
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: of brought a whole another b D energy kind of

565
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: to the to the group, you know, um bellicos and

566
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: derogatory didactic correct Yeah. Yeah, and he uh, he progressed

567
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: through that first order where you're learning most of these

568
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: spiritual metaphysical concepts, and he wanted to be in the

569
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: second order, but a lot of people were against it.

570
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: They were like, this guy, no way. Do you know

571
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: what he gets up to on the weekends. Uh, he

572
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: goes to pyramids with his wife and they you should

573
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: see the incantations. Yeah, they're like, how disgusting. Tell me

574
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: more in detail. Yeah, So there was there was controversy, right,

575
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: but uh, the guy that he was following, Mather, liked him,

576
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: and so Mather unilaterally inducted him into this second order,

577
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: which caused a great deal of problems. Uh. He became

578
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: like Mather's sort of he did things for Mather, and

579
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: he also experimented heavily with the ritualistic use of drugs. Uh.

580
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: The everything comes to a culmination when he and his

581
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: mistress try to take over a space that was rented

582
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: by the Order in West Kensington. This goes to court

583
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: and when the case goes to court, he loses. And

584
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: that's that's one of the final nails in the coffin

585
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: of his official membership. But weirdly up and you know,

586
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: he went on to do all the other stuff that

587
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: you know about, But weirdly enough, his interaction with this

588
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: group is one of the few reasons mainstream society talks

589
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: about the Golden Dawn today. Even if he didn't like them,

590
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: he helped keep their legacy around. And that's what we

591
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: talked about. I mean that he he is probably the

592
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: search term that that gets many people to a Hermetic

593
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: Order site or to something written about Hermetic Order. It's

594
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: because they went Alistair corrawly Um. But you know that

595
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: there's something really interesting that we can talk about here

596
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: because as open as they were, as as large of

597
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: a membership as the Golden Dawn had, they were able

598
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: to keep a lot of their stuff very very quiet,

599
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: at least the materials they used to learn, rituals, to

600
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: learn a lot of the you know, more secretive knowledge.

601
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: They were able to keep that stuff hidden at least

602
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: pretty well. And this, uh, this occurs of course because

603
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: they know everybody who would have access to that information,

604
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: kind of like the way in a film production, scripts

605
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: will be watermarked, so you know what what leaked or

606
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: what didn't leak. Even some specifics of the story might

607
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: be exercised or changed just a bit so you can say, oh,

608
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: we put that type of there in purpose. That way

609
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: we would know if Reginald or whoever spilled beans. Eventually

610
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: p A always stealing scripts and sending them over to

611
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: where do you send scripts? I don't I don't even

612
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: know scripts. You mean prescriptions or scripts, screenplays? Screenplays? Okay,

613
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: what like you're leaking it to TMZ? Is that works?

614
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: And then uh, somewhere right now, J. J. Abrams is

615
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast and he throws his fist up

616
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: in the sky and he goes Roginald, he knew, don't

617
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: mess with Disney. If you're gonna steal a script, don't

618
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: mess of Disney. No, don't mess with the mouse. No.

619
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: And he's terrifying in person. Let me tell you, yes,

620
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: all my script. Well there's a darkness that's like no,

621
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: he's one of the founding members. Okay, yeah, so so

622
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: mouse decide um. They all took a specific vale of silence,

623
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: but that vale of silence didn't last. And that is

624
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: why today you can see detailed descriptions of various specific

625
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: rights on any number of websites like Hermetic dot com

626
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: is a pretty great resource. And don't worry, folks, it's

627
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: not a bunch of witches like cackling around a cauldron

628
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: or practicing human sacrifice. What's interesting here is that the

629
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: golden dawn itself, nothing ever happens in a vacuum, right,

630
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: The golden dawn itself occurs in the same kind of

631
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: cultural context of spirituality spiritualism rather than science of emerging psychology.

632
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: Like the Western fascination with what they called Eastern mysteries

633
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: like meditation or yoga. They definitely came bundled up with

634
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot of xenophobia, a lot of racist notions of

635
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: the time, but there turns out to be genuine science

636
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: to the benefits of things like mindfulness and exercise. You're

637
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: practicing rhythmic breathing, you know what I mean. You're you're

638
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: moving your body in a healthy way and you're exploring

639
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: your own mindset. So that's like, that's beneficial to people.

640
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely it is. And you know, I mean whether or

641
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: not these practices will grant you, you know, the ability

642
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: to commune with the astral plane or across the astral plane.

643
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: Is it a thing you have to cross or a

644
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: place that you occupy I'm not quite sure, or or

645
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: be able to speak with those machine als. We talked

646
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: about that in the in the cash episode, that that

647
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: you gotta have d m T for that business. Uh.

648
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: Here's a surprising thing. Um, maybe not to everybody, but

649
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: there is this seems like pretty progressive. I would argue,

650
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: even in the earliest forms where they're letting you know,

651
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: regular old folks join in. And uh, they thought Alistair

652
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: Crowley was a creep. But there apparently is a far

653
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: right version of this organization. Yeah, unfortunately they have they

654
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: have a very similar name, but they are not They're

655
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: hopefully not related past the name. Uh. And of course

656
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: you know we have people who have um read up

657
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: on the Golden Dawn in the audience here, so we

658
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,479
Speaker 1: wanted to be clear there's a different organization that has

659
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: very little to do with magic. It is. Uh. The

660
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: Golden Dawn is a far right political party in Greece.

661
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: They've got a number of policy platforms. The main thing

662
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: is they want to return Greece to a military dictatorship,

663
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: and they say the benefits of this would be superior

664
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: to the current Greek government. Here's here's the thing. They're

665
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: often described by many people as neo Nazis. Many members

666
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: of the already disagree with that characterization, but I did.

667
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: I did put a little link to their official banner. Uh,

668
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: Matt Noel, I'd love to hear you guys describe this

669
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: on air. I'd love to. I will describe it. But

670
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: it's like it has way more than a whiff of

671
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: a swastika. I mean, you look at it and it

672
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: practically feels like a swastika to you look a little

673
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: closer and realized that it's twisted a little differently. It

674
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: kind of looks like a hedge maze or something. But

675
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: it's just very swastika. Ask Matt, what what? What? How

676
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: does it? How does it strike you? Well? I guess

677
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: it depends on which one we're looking at, because I know,

678
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: I think one of them is a slightly different color

679
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: than the other. I know that their standard colors are red,

680
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: black and white. And when when you've got the black

681
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: symbol on top of the red background. That's where your

682
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: mind goes. That's right there, there's a distinct flavor, let's

683
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: say to it doesn't make like just because they chose

684
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: colors that look like that, and just because their symbol is,

685
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, blocky shapes that are look like they could

686
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: be a swastikia doesn't mean they are like that. Fact

687
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they are in any way related to

688
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: Nazis or anything like that. Colors aside, it definitely has

689
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: a whiff of a swastika though. But the butt is, uh,

690
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: it's you should see the ideologies that they're associated with. Um.

691
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: For you know, many many, many people who write about

692
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: this group, several people who have you know, come from

693
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: this group to talk about it. Um. Good lord, don't

694
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: even look at the Wikipedia page because it will tell

695
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: you all of the varying ideologies that their associated. It'll

696
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: probably get you on some kind of lists just for

697
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: pulling it up. Yeah. In the interest of, you know,

698
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: giving their own reasoning for this band enter uh, they

699
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: say that it is act as nothing necessarily to do

700
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: with Nazism. It is a depiction what's called Meandros. Meandros

701
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: is a kind of decorative border in a in a

702
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: continuous line like you've seen it at every Greek restaurant

703
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: you've ever been to, probably in some form. So that

704
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: that's what that's at least their argument. But as Matt said,

705
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: if you just take a quick dip into their Wikipedia page,

706
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: you'll see the various members of the group and leaders

707
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: have been found guilty of murder, attempted murder, attacks on immigrants,

708
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: the creation of an organized crime ring, and they've been

709
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, convicted. Uh So, maybe maybe they should take

710
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: a take a cue from the other Golden Dawn and

711
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: just try some meditation. I agree, Let's just let's do

712
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: that all around. Let's do that. Do we mention that

713
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: their salute is kind of the same one, It's the

714
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: exact same one, same one. Uh they, you know, according

715
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: to officials from the group, where people spokespeople from the

716
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: group is you know again has a different inspiration. But

717
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: it's like Vanilla Ice years and years ago when he

718
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: described the slight difference in a drumbeat to say a

719
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: song was unique. You remember that was I'm behind the

720
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 1: music or something is one little extra dumb because ours

721
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: goes and there's goes. Case closed. You know what I mean.

722
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: So this is UH, it's just important for us to

723
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: say this because what it means is, if you want

724
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: to learn more about joining an organization affiliated with the

725
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, just make sure you're

726
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: joining the right outfit. Double check the website, you know

727
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: what I mean. Be careful. UH. Also as a message

728
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: to anybody who actively investigates UH these sorts of schools

729
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: of thought or philosophical explorations. We're obviously outsiders to this,

730
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: but we find it fast and eating because it touches

731
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: on so many levels of society at the time, you

732
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And there's there's a boldness to

733
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: the exploration in theory. And that's where we leave it

734
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: to you, folks. What do you think is the Golden

735
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: Dawn is or was it really teaching people magical rights?

736
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: Was it really giving people extraordinary abilities or allowing them

737
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: to commune with uh the board the management of reality?

738
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: I gotta tell again, and I I promises last time

739
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: won't bring it up. Control is such a cool game.

740
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: It might I don't know if it's the best, but

741
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: it might be my favorite game I've played during the pandemic.

742
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: Really I'm in such an unfortunate position where I'm like

743
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: past the point of no return in several games. Uh Like,

744
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: like I'm like, you know, good, midway through Last of

745
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: Us two and then they gave me such a bummer

746
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: that I can only play it for a little bit

747
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: of times. Also pretty hard. And I'm almost done with

748
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: the Breath of the Wild, and I've still got Red

749
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: Dead Too installed on my machine, which is like three

750
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: hundred gigs, so I've got like, you know, guilt about

751
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: not finishing that. So I'm like convincing myself that I'm

752
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: going to. But I keep hearing about these cool new games.

753
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: It's just like Ghost of Sushima or something like. It's like,

754
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's fabulous. And then you guys keep talking

755
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: about this control. Is that a Switch game? Or is

756
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: it only PS four? Where can I get this game?

757
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: They dig myself deeper. I think it's everything. I don't

758
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: know if it's on Switch though I've got PS four

759
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: X Files meets Big Government, conspiracy meets Lovecraft? Is it

760
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: like long form game? Is it like? OK? Yeah? And

761
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: uh there their rules for communication with extra dimensional entities

762
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: or things like you have to go through this weird

763
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: time bubble where it's always mid afternoon at a strange hotel.

764
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: Anyhow do you do you think that there it is

765
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: possible that these extra dimensional entities, whatever you want to

766
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 1: call them. Do you think it's possible that they exist

767
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: and that members of the Golden Dawn somehow figured out

768
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: a way to contact them? Or was this organization functioning

769
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: more as an an experiment of sorts with social interaction

770
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: or was it something in between? You know, um, we'd

771
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. Yeah, please, And did

772
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: we did we tell people how to join? We did not.

773
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: Because you can right now. You want to get in

774
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: on this hermetic order of the Golden Dawn in one

775
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: or whenever you're listening to this past, present, or future,

776
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: you can do it. And there's a website you can

777
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: go to prepare yourselves and your wallets. Uh. It is

778
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: www dot Golden dash Dawn d a w N dot com. Uh.

779
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: And once you get there you can look up memberships

780
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: and you will find that at least on this date

781
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: we were cord this in March of one. You can

782
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: join for the low low price of one hundred and

783
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: ninety nine dollars US. It used it used to be

784
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: one thousand, one hundred and eighty eight dollars and it's

785
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: got a slash through it. But now it's only one

786
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety nine dollars. Is that Is that just

787
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: like a limited time offer or is this just the

788
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: new the new rate. I do not know, but you

789
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: get lots and lots of books and PDFs. It looks

790
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: like a dagger. Perhaps at least maybe um some very

791
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: interesting folks on the front of that live webinar training

792
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: picture I've fascinated. Maybe we maybe we draw straws and

793
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: one of us joins up and then breaks the valve

794
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: silence for the other two. Dude, I'll I'm not breaking

795
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: a vale of science if I if I join up,

796
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: I'm taking this seriously, you guys, of course, Okay, you're

797
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: a hundred percent in so then it would be a

798
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: conversation where to talk with you about it. We have

799
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: to also join up. Yeah, you better believe it. I'm

800
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: not going in two d dollars just to give you

801
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: guys all the information. Is there is there any criteria

802
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: other than just paying the fee? I mean, I would

803
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: love to think that there was some kind of you know,

804
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: test of might that you would have to pass our

805
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: mental fortitude, you know. I mean, I'm cool with it

806
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: being like not about like your wealth, because that that's

807
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: a reasonable enough fee. But I don't want to be

808
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: in there if it's if it's like just anyone can join,

809
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: I think it should be merrit, merit based merit. But no,

810
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: now that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it should

811
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: be you should be able to have to bring something

812
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: to the table. You know what I'm saying, Well, you

813
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: do have to pass a written examination at least in

814
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: the original Golden Dawn to move to the second or

815
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: inner order. Uh. Yeah, So there's there's a like not

816
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: everybody can do this, it says, not everybody's gonna make it. Okay, great,

817
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: this is this is important information. Yeah, they're taking it

818
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: seriously as well. So we want to we want to

819
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: hear your opinion of it. Tell us if you have joined,

820
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: if you are joining UM, tell us, if there are

821
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: concerns about the organization, tell us if most importantly, whether

822
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: you think the rights and rituals described actually UM actually

823
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: have efficacy, whether they work out of respect for you know,

824
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: the idea of initiation and the idea of secrecy. We

825
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: have not described any specific rituals other than to say

826
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: it's not you know, it's not like eating eyeballs or

827
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: flaying people alive or any any of that movie stuff. Um,

828
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: and if you want to learn more, there are people

829
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: who are glad to share that information with you. You

830
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: can tell us about your experiences, UH, tell us about

831
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: other secret organizations, and tell us whether you think there

832
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: are forms of magic that are real. By finding us

833
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 1: on our own kind of magical order of these times

834
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: the internet, you can find us a conspirace the Stuff

835
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook, Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram. We

836
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: recommend joining our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy,

837
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: where you can exchange memes, have spirited conversations about episode topics,

838
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: and maybe make a new best friend. That's right. You

839
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: can also give us a phone call. Check it out,

840
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: you guys. Our number is one eight three three st

841
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: d w y t K. If you choose to pick

842
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: up your phone and call, please do the following. Give

843
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: us the name you'd like for us to refer to

844
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: you as. If it's not your real name, that's fine.

845
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: Just say whatever you want us to call you, and

846
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: we'll call you. That can leave us your message try

847
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,919
Speaker 1: and keep it a little brief if you can leave

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00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: it under that three minutes, and then if you want

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00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 1: to tell us anything, just personally, just talking to Ben Nolan, myself,

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00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: Paul Alexis, whoever. Just keep that right at the end

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00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: of the message. That will help us put everything together,

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00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: edit it quickly and then get it on the air.

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00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 1: We do appreciate you calling in and taking the time

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00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: to do it, so looking for order to hearing from you.

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00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of that stuff, hey,

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00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: we've got a great way for you to connect with us,

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00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: especially if you've got a longer story or a suggestion

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00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: with a bunch of links or something. Please send us

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00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i

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00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know.

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00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: Is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

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00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.