Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its me what borrow slam it
Speaker 1: out car left wing free ball perfect.
Speaker 2: Then he left block the shot at the rim pow
Speaker 2: with the left hand head of foul. Welcome to the
Speaker 2: Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm
Speaker 2: your host, Justin Rowan. The Chasedown is presented by Fubo,
Speaker 2: the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including
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Speaker 2: Try for free at FuboTV dot com. Slash Calves. The
Speaker 2: Cleveland Cavaliers once again, we're dominant in the clutch, coming
Speaker 2: back against the Brooklyn Nets. Another comeback win, Another clutch win,
Speaker 2: and the fifteenth win in the row, clinching the Central
Speaker 2: Division championship. There or banner, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2: It feels like a championship in my heart. Anytime you
Speaker 2: can put the Milwaukee Bucks in the Chicago Bowls behind you.
Speaker 2: Joining me today to discuss that and more my co
Speaker 2: host Carter. He gets, Carter, are you doing? I bumbled
Speaker 2: your name? That was awful?
Speaker 1: Fine a nandy brother, Despite that, you know fifteen wins
Speaker 1: in a row, second second time this season, the six
Speaker 1: team in NBA history to do that, which kind of
Speaker 1: stunning by the way that it's happened that many times.
Speaker 1: They have now won more than half of the regular
Speaker 1: season in win streaks. They have forty two wins worth
Speaker 1: of wind streaks, and that is a lot of wins.
Speaker 2: That is an absolutely crazy stat I gotta be honest,
Speaker 2: I was a little disappointed last night. I had plans
Speaker 2: to go to a concert ended up. You know, my
Speaker 2: my avenue, my hookup to get a ticket ended up
Speaker 2: not working out for me. Looked at the last minute
Speaker 2: tickets three hundred dollars. I'm not spending that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest concert goer, but it was a
Speaker 2: little too deep for me. I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: the Cats are probably going to blow out the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 2: Then I saw, oh, Donovan entire arresting. DeAndre Hunter's got
Speaker 2: you know, an illness, and he's out. This might be
Speaker 2: an interesting game, And you know what, it was a
Speaker 2: bit of up and down game. I thought they actually
Speaker 2: played pretty well in the first quarter. Brooklyn just you know,
Speaker 2: was shooting the lights out. I thought the second quarter
Speaker 2: of the effort kind of dropped off a little bit,
Speaker 2: the focus had a bit of a fallof but they
Speaker 2: once again rallied. They showed that they were able to
Speaker 2: you know, put it together when it really mattered and
Speaker 2: came away with a win. I had a fun time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was again I think I said this last episode,
Speaker 1: but like, I'm not even getting annoyed when they're not
Speaker 1: playing well because it's just been that kind of year
Speaker 1: where like, even when they're not playing well, I'm still
Speaker 1: pretty pleased with what I'm watching. And I thought it
Speaker 1: was just one of those games where the shots weren't
Speaker 1: going in more than anything. And yeah, and the de
Speaker 1: was definitely a little rough to start the game, but
Speaker 1: I also think they just had some rough shooting variants.
Speaker 1: You know, Zion Williams his first fourth rees, but in
Speaker 1: Darius was having another one of those games. And I
Speaker 1: think we do kind of have to start with Darius
Speaker 1: because you know, he did have kind of a Tale
Speaker 1: of two halves sort of game where you know, first
Speaker 1: half happens and you go, uh, man, do we have
Speaker 1: a problem here, you know, because you know he'd been
Speaker 1: shooting like thirty four percent since the hip injury against
Speaker 1: the Knicks, and it wasn't getting a lot better, you know,
Speaker 1: even in games that they were winning, which is all
Speaker 1: of them. Uh, you know, it was a little bit
Speaker 1: of mostly rely on, you know, just keeping the engine
Speaker 1: going as opposed to taking over. And you know, we
Speaker 1: saw ty Jerome take down the takeover one of the
Speaker 1: stretches that Donovan sat earlier in this wind streak. We
Speaker 1: saw you know, don him in go nuts. We saw
Speaker 1: DeAndre Hunter go nuts. We've seen a lot of guys
Speaker 1: win games for the Calves and it just hasn't really
Speaker 1: mattered that much that Darius hasn't played well. And I was,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the first half and I'm looking
Speaker 1: through the roster and looking through the rotation. I go,
Speaker 1: it's gonna have to be you, brother, Yeah, And it was.
Speaker 1: He scores. He goes absolutely ballistic in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: scores eighteen points, is finishing at the rim, is hitting threes,
Speaker 1: is getting to the line, is diming and completely took
Speaker 1: over and finishes with thirty eight and four in four
Speaker 1: steals as well. So I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if my like my spidy, my angst senses are all
Speaker 1: the way wiped away because I still think it's been
Speaker 1: hard for him to get going ever since he got hurt.
Speaker 1: But it certainly was nice to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really was nice to see. And you know
Speaker 2: that kind of sentiment of well, it's got to be
Speaker 2: you tonight. I think that was the exact same thing
Speaker 2: that Kenny Atkinson was thinking in that moment. Darius played
Speaker 2: over thirty six minutes in this game. It was the
Speaker 2: second most minutes he's played all season in the game,
Speaker 2: which automatically made me think, how many games did he
Speaker 2: have where he played more than that last season? Sixteen
Speaker 2: is the answer to that, you know, and we're almost
Speaker 2: towards the end of this season and this is the
Speaker 2: second most he's played. But you know, that's kind of
Speaker 2: going in line with what we've heard, you know, Chris
Speaker 2: Fied or Danny Cunny, Hammett and all the wonderful people
Speaker 2: on the beat say that Kenny's plan is for down
Speaker 2: the stretch, which is we're going to have to have
Speaker 2: some nights where these guys do play more minutes. We
Speaker 2: got to get their conditioning up and ready for the playoffs,
Speaker 2: and you know, being able to trust Darius in that
Speaker 2: spot where he doesn't have it going. He's missing shots.
Speaker 2: You know, he's not able to find that rhythm offensively,
Speaker 2: and for him to step up in that way I
Speaker 2: thought was really encouraging. We talked on the last podcast
Speaker 2: about how not only was Darius slumping, you know, the
Speaker 2: last few games, but Donovan's shooting numbers were really down.
Speaker 2: I didn't even realize this until, you know, it was
Speaker 2: announced that he was resting, but Ty Jerome over the
Speaker 2: last six games had been twenty two of sixty two
Speaker 2: from the field. He was in a slump. You know.
Speaker 2: I think all of these guards have been in a
Speaker 2: little bit of a funk, and that's probably part of
Speaker 2: why we've seen this uneven stretch. But with Darius, there's
Speaker 2: just that more clean line of when this started. Right,
Speaker 2: he had, you know, the first seven games of February's
Speaker 2: shooting forty seven forty eight from the field dominant. Looks
Speaker 2: like he has has that fall against New York, misses
Speaker 2: two games, and then he's been in a bit of
Speaker 2: a rut since. And I do think it's worth noting
Speaker 2: over that stretch, he's still had productive games. The playmaking's
Speaker 2: been good, the assistant turnover ratio has been good. I
Speaker 2: feel like the defense has been strong, and even over
Speaker 2: those seven games, three of them he's had an above
Speaker 2: leaverage true shooting percentage in those games as well, So
Speaker 2: it's not like last year where there was no impact
Speaker 2: at all. But I do think that it's been a
Speaker 2: different version of Darius than what we've seen all season.
Speaker 1: I feel like he's been a no doubter or to
Speaker 1: me an, all NBA level player all year, and he's
Speaker 1: back to being like a pretty good point guard right now,
Speaker 1: right right, And there is a difference between those two things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, above lee average true shooting percentage isn't
Speaker 2: the standard that he set for himself this season, right,
Speaker 2: It has been a fifty to forty ninety level. So
Speaker 2: I do think the most noteworthy difference really has been
Speaker 2: he's not getting to the rim and into the paint
Speaker 2: at the same rate that he has before. He's had
Speaker 2: halfs where he's only taken three pointers. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's. Hey, I'm working my way back from the
Speaker 2: hip and I just don't want to over exert myself
Speaker 2: or what the deal is, but I thought it was
Speaker 2: noteworthy that down the stretch against Brooklyn, he was attacking
Speaker 2: he was getting downhill, he was getting into the paint,
Speaker 2: you know, finishing at the rim, drawing fouls. Can I
Speaker 2: just kick is so funny that we're like, what's wrong
Speaker 2: with Darius? All he's doing is shooting when all we
Speaker 2: wanted him to do for the last three years was
Speaker 2: shoot more. Yeah. Yeah. And you know that goes to
Speaker 2: what we said after the Chicago game, which is in
Speaker 2: the past, a game like that, we probably would have
Speaker 2: interpreted it in a more positive way that hey, you know,
Speaker 2: he's taking a lot of shots and he's pressing a
Speaker 2: little bit. But I prefer that to fading away into
Speaker 2: the background. But the reality is, you know, we have
Speaker 2: a higher standard this season. We have a legitimate chance
Speaker 2: to go out and win a championship this year. So
Speaker 2: you want to find ways to be productive even when
Speaker 2: you don't have it going. I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, No, I was agreeing with you. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything that It was just agreeing being
Speaker 1: an active listener.
Speaker 2: You know, that's fine. You know, I think it was
Speaker 2: a really really you know, strong performance for him in
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter. I do like the fact that he
Speaker 2: has remained aggressive kind of through this stretch. My inclination,
Speaker 2: whether there is something wrong or not, is hey, it
Speaker 2: might be nice time to get him arrest, Like you know,
Speaker 2: Donovan and Ty got their night off here. If he
Speaker 2: rests first Memphis, that's four days off. But I also
Speaker 2: have to acknowledge that some of this is me thinking, well,
Speaker 2: there's some avenue to control this. It's not just a
Speaker 2: shooting slump, right Like, if we rest them, everything's going
Speaker 2: to be fine, right Like, these aren't just the ebbs
Speaker 2: and flows of a season, which in reality that might
Speaker 2: be it. It might just be, hey, you know, working
Speaker 2: your way back, you're a little tired, it's late in
Speaker 2: the season, you're not playing for anything. You're going to
Speaker 2: be a little more selective of when you attack the
Speaker 2: basket and when you're going to exert yourself.
Speaker 1: And when you're fatigued, you just don't recover as well, right,
Speaker 1: you know, and this is a bad month for that.
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons that me and you
Speaker 1: both have our eyes on that, you know, that Memphis
Speaker 1: game is a bit centil Rest game is because they're
Speaker 1: just in constant, perpetual motion all month where they're not
Speaker 1: getting any time just to really sit and recover, you know,
Speaker 1: I think this is where the work that these guys
Speaker 1: put in their bodies really pays dividends because it helps
Speaker 1: them recover a little bit faster, but end of the day,
Speaker 1: still hurts to fall on your hip that hard. And
Speaker 1: and I think, I just I just I do just
Speaker 1: kind of want to see that, you know, a little
Speaker 1: bit of an extended run of of like the Darius
Speaker 1: we saw, you know, last month, just to kind of
Speaker 1: just to kind of remind ourselves. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: I always joke that I have the memory of a fish,
Speaker 1: and I really do, because it's like you almost every
Speaker 1: time something trends the wrong way, I'm like, it's never
Speaker 1: going to be good again, and everything. Every time something
Speaker 1: is trending the right way, I'm like, we're never going
Speaker 1: to lose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even within this game, you know, you get the
Speaker 2: sentiment of, hey, when he doesn't have it going, he's
Speaker 2: not able to pull through. You know, when he's a
Speaker 2: little banged up, he doesn't find ways to be effective.
Speaker 2: And I think he has found ways to be effective
Speaker 2: over the stretch. You know, what he did in the
Speaker 2: fourth quarter was very clearly you know, that kind of switch,
Speaker 2: and I don't think it was an effort thing before.
Speaker 2: But that's you know, that extra little bit of lock in,
Speaker 2: dig deep, let's close this out, let's get the win.
Speaker 2: And I thought it was interesting that basically that was
Speaker 2: a team wide approach. Kenny Atkinson really only played eight
Speaker 2: games or eight guys in this game. Javonte Grain got
Speaker 2: some run, you know, kind of our first hidden misstretch
Speaker 2: of him in his time with the Cavs. He had
Speaker 2: that blown dunk attempt, and there was a couple other
Speaker 2: times where he went flying and the results were sometimes positive,
Speaker 2: sometimes negative. But you know, that's probably a little bit
Speaker 2: more closer to reality and what you'd expect. But Kenny
Speaker 2: really leaned on the top guys, Darius playing over thirty
Speaker 2: six minutes, Helen and Mobley playing thirty four minutes, Isaaco
Speaker 2: Coorro played a lot of time here. He really kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, with guys out, went with that shorter rotation
Speaker 2: rather than putting in someone like a Jalen Tyson.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was interesting, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: because earlier I do think you're right that it was
Speaker 1: a byproduct of him trying to get these guys a
Speaker 1: little bit more run rather than because my first INSTINCTU was, Oh,
Speaker 1: Kenny really wanted to win this. He basically played eight guys,
Speaker 1: which he hasn't done all year unless we were down
Speaker 1: like six rotation players, right, And the more I thought
Speaker 1: about the more it became a little clear to me
Speaker 1: that like, oh, well he didn't do this when we
Speaker 1: were down like five or six rotation players. Why is that?
Speaker 1: And I do think you're right, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how I feel about it at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, Like I probably would have liked to see
Speaker 1: a little Jalen Tyson just given him a little bit
Speaker 1: of run, but like it, there clearly is a little
Speaker 1: method to the madness of like, no, we're gonna try
Speaker 1: to win this game. And I do also think this
Speaker 1: was the game where maybe the story of the game
Speaker 1: kind of told the story of the rotations, where they
Speaker 1: were locking down with that starting lineup and he was
Speaker 1: going to ride him. I mean, yet another second half
Speaker 1: where they just put the clams on. They have a
Speaker 1: one o eight defensive rating in the second half in
Speaker 1: the last ten games, and it definitely feels like it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought that was an interesting choice rotationally,
Speaker 1: just to be like no, no, no one knew, We're
Speaker 1: just gonna play with the guys that we expect to
Speaker 1: play with win games matter. Yeah, and you know that
Speaker 1: deficit that they went into was with Darius on the
Speaker 1: bench as well, right, Like you look at it on
Speaker 1: the night, they were plus twelve with Darius on the court,
Speaker 1: team best by a pretty good margin. And you know,
Speaker 1: if Kenny's going to pick spots where hey, we want
Speaker 1: to get our guys more minutes, we want them to
Speaker 1: kind of ramp up a little bit and get ready
Speaker 1: for the postseason, picking your one game this month where
Speaker 1: you have two days off after is probably a sensible
Speaker 1: spot to do that, right, Like, I think that's probably
Speaker 1: part of the equation there as well. I'm so selfish
Speaker 1: that I was like, man, two days off, and then
Speaker 1: I remembered, oh yeah, it's the only time for the
Speaker 1: next like thirty days. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, from my perspective, I'm in the
Speaker 2: same boat as you. I would have liked to have
Speaker 2: another game this week, even if it was a back
Speaker 2: to back here afterthing.
Speaker 1: Else, just for the podcast.
Speaker 2: Its brutal for the podcast, Yeah, because we have the
Speaker 2: one game against the Nets, which you know, this isn't
Speaker 2: going to be a playoff opponent. For them, and then
Speaker 2: two days off until Memphis, which I do find it
Speaker 2: interesting that last time we played Memphis, we're like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is a test, right like number two seed in
Speaker 2: the Western Conference. You know, we we really we got
Speaker 2: to kind of anker down here and get this win.
Speaker 2: I believe Darius at that game still went out and won,
Speaker 2: still beat Memphis. Jaron's not there. It's really kind of
Speaker 2: taking some era of the balloon there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a game they should win now, assuming they're
Speaker 1: not sitting a bunch of people. So Memphis fans might
Speaker 1: accuse Darius of duck and the smoke he missed as another.
Speaker 2: One you might. You know, this is that that probably competition.
Speaker 2: I mean you could call it a competition. I would
Speaker 2: just call it Daris. I might even say the best
Speaker 2: player in that class. But you know that's that's me.
Speaker 1: I should.
Speaker 2: But you know, but before we move off of Daris,
Speaker 2: I do think we need to talk about just how
Speaker 2: good he's been in the clutch. You know, whether it's
Speaker 2: an on game or an off game, he has stepped
Speaker 2: up in those moments. I saw the NBA account tweeted
Speaker 2: out that among players that have over eighty clutch points
Speaker 2: this season, he leads them with the best field goal
Speaker 2: percentage in that time, he's shooting fifty eight point seven percent.
Speaker 2: There's twelve players, So when I saw eighty points in
Speaker 2: the clutch, I was like, how many guys have actually
Speaker 2: done that? There's twelve guys that have done it, Trey Young,
Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson, Maxi, DeRozan, and Jokic, Fox Curry, KDDG, Hero
Speaker 2: and Tatum, and I thought it was noteworthy that not
Speaker 2: only does Darius have the best field goal percentage, he
Speaker 2: is the best three point percentage in that stretch. If
Speaker 2: you look at free throw shooting, you know, only Steph
Speaker 2: Katie and DeRozan are better from the free throw line
Speaker 2: in the clutch.
Speaker 1: It includes that disaster just one of three performance against Houston.
Speaker 2: Right, almost all of those misses that he's had this
Speaker 2: season came in that one game. But he's shooting eighty
Speaker 2: eight percent from the free throw line in that moment,
Speaker 2: So you know, he's doing it in every single facet
Speaker 2: in the clutch, and his defense has been great. You know,
Speaker 2: I think back to, you know, some of the steals
Speaker 2: he had in those moments. It was that great one
Speaker 2: against Boston where he basically was playing like a defensive back.
Speaker 2: He's been doing it all in the clutch, and I
Speaker 2: just think it makes me think back to the last
Speaker 2: couple of years where the numbers weren't as strong, and
Speaker 2: we argue, you know, some of this is variants, and
Speaker 2: I'll say this, even on this end, I don't think,
Speaker 2: you know, this is who Darius is and he's going
Speaker 2: to shoot sixty percent in the clutch for the rest
Speaker 2: of his career or anything like this. There is some
Speaker 2: luck when it comes to performing in these moments, but
Speaker 2: I think the mentality to attack at that time, to
Speaker 2: not be afraid of taking those shots and being aggressive,
Speaker 2: having composure, I feel like he's been much much better
Speaker 2: in those areas this season.
Speaker 1: I think the composure thing definitely shines through, because I mean,
Speaker 1: some of these are open looks that are being generated
Speaker 1: by the overall health of the offense big time. But
Speaker 1: I do think he his ISO possessions, which he's never
Speaker 1: been a great ISO player, and I don't think he
Speaker 1: is this year either, but he is doing a lot
Speaker 1: better job of setting up winning possessions for him before
Speaker 1: the shot goes up. He is you know, he's pulling
Speaker 1: the string he is getting guys on their heels and
Speaker 1: then stopping. He's not just trying to put a couple
Speaker 1: combos on a guy then get past him. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like he's gotten really clean angles on a
Speaker 1: lot of these attacks. He's finding the right switches. He's
Speaker 1: been threatening enough with the pass that teams are worrying
Speaker 1: about that, so he's still getting you know, he's not
Speaker 1: doing the predetermined I'm going to try to score here
Speaker 1: no matter what thing. So like, I just feel like
Speaker 1: he hasn't had to take a lot of tremendously difficult
Speaker 1: shots in that plutch sample so far this season. It's
Speaker 1: been nice that he's hit a lot of those tremendously
Speaker 1: difficult shots as well, but like that's not what they're
Speaker 1: building the whole plane out of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think that's true of Donovan
Speaker 2: as well. Right, Neither of them are particularly strong this
Speaker 2: year in isolation. Darius is in the forty eight percentile,
Speaker 2: Donovan's in the sixty six percentile. Ty jeromes in the
Speaker 2: ninety seventh, which absolutely tracks unstoppable. That completely feels that way.
Speaker 2: But I think you pointing out the process is so
Speaker 2: important because that was one of our main criticisms in
Speaker 2: the clutch was, hey, they're running this clock down too
Speaker 2: long and there's five seconds left. They have to jack
Speaker 2: up a shot with a long defender on them, and
Speaker 2: Darius and Donovan are not getting good shots in the spot.
Speaker 2: Now they're playing with pace, they're playing with tempo. Even
Speaker 2: in the clutch. They're allowing and trusting the offense to
Speaker 2: generate better looks for them. And I think that you're
Speaker 2: seeing better results because of that, right. I think so
Speaker 2: often the lazy conversations when it comes to the clutch
Speaker 2: and you know, star players and all that is all right,
Speaker 2: it's something that's genetic, right, it's you either have it
Speaker 2: or you don't. Don't when really the the context that
Speaker 2: you're in your trust of the system, whether you are
Speaker 2: you know, being supported by your teammates. Like I think
Speaker 2: Donovan he deserves credit for Darius's numbers in the clutch.
Speaker 2: I does think Mobili deserves credit for his numbers in
Speaker 2: the clutch, Darius's ability to play off of those guys
Speaker 2: and keep defenders guessing on am I going to pass
Speaker 2: it to mobiley Am I going to pass it to Alan.
Speaker 2: I have to account for Donovan Mitchell that all of
Speaker 2: those factors contribute to him being so good in this spot.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it is as simple as, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, he just built this way, right.
Speaker 1: I do think, you know, like sometimes it's not built
Speaker 1: this way. But a lot of it is your mentality.
Speaker 1: Like I do you think there are guys who you
Speaker 1: don't want to shoot, like because you're not sure they're gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, get tight in a big moment. I do
Speaker 1: think there is some part of that that guys have
Speaker 1: to work through. But like that's the experience of reps.
Speaker 1: You know, you take your first game winning shot, You're
Speaker 1: probably gonna be pretty nervous walking on that floor out
Speaker 1: at the time out you take. You get a lot
Speaker 1: of reps in these situations over the you know, four
Speaker 1: or five years DG's been in the league. Well, then
Speaker 1: it gets a lot easier, you know, you just it
Speaker 1: gets a little bit more routine. Then you have the
Speaker 1: culture piece of if I take a shot that is
Speaker 1: in miss is my coach going to be side eyeing me?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are my teammates going to be side eyeing me? I mean,
Speaker 1: if if there's been a criticism levied against Lebron over
Speaker 1: the course of his career that I thought was fair
Speaker 1: is like, man, you mess up with him three or
Speaker 1: four times in a row, you're just not going to
Speaker 1: get the ball anymore, you know, Like and like guys,
Speaker 1: who are who might you know, Like if he doesn't
Speaker 1: trust you to hit the open three, it's just like
Speaker 1: kind of devastating. And I do think they're like so
Speaker 1: like there's all these different factors that come into how
Speaker 1: you're going to play. It's do you have a good,
Speaker 1: you know, offensive system that you can depend on. Do
Speaker 1: you have the talent, do you have the reps, Do
Speaker 1: you have the confidence? Do you have the culture that
Speaker 1: will support you when you fail? Because you're gonna fail
Speaker 1: a lot, Like I mean, most people shoot, like you know,
Speaker 1: some of the best players in NBA history shoot like
Speaker 1: forty percent from the field and game winning situations if that,
Speaker 1: because this stuff is really really those are going to
Speaker 1: be the most difficult shots in the game always. So
Speaker 1: I just think it's this big top cocktail of factors
Speaker 1: that you know, for whatever reason, uh, they got the
Speaker 1: right alchemy for Darius this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that. You know, joked about
Speaker 2: it a little bit on the last podcast that Hey
Speaker 2: they're they're just keeping these games close, and they're having
Speaker 2: comeback just so that they can practice these late game
Speaker 2: scenarios right, just so that they can get the reps
Speaker 2: and get that money.
Speaker 1: I don't think Darius agrees, because he basically said to Serena,
Speaker 1: I'm sick of comebacks.
Speaker 2: Can think of the low starts, which you know, I
Speaker 2: looked into it. The Calves prior to the All Star Break,
Speaker 2: with the number two team in first quarter net rating,
Speaker 2: they outscored opponents by these sixteen point seven points per
Speaker 2: one hundred possessions. In that time. Since the All Star Break,
Speaker 2: they are only seventh in first quarter net rating plus
Speaker 2: seven point three. So yeah, they have been worse to
Speaker 2: start off games, and I think some of that has
Speaker 2: been focused more than anything. I think part of it is, hey,
Speaker 2: Darius isn't shooting well, Donovan isn't shooting well, Tie isn't
Speaker 2: shooting well. When that's the case, you're going to have
Speaker 2: a little bit of a slump, you're going to be
Speaker 2: a little uneven.
Speaker 1: But you know, as we said on the last podcast,
Speaker 1: though really nice to be winners of fifteen in a
Speaker 1: row when you're slumping.
Speaker 2: No kidding, you know, It just goes to show you
Speaker 2: how high the floor is. And it's funny because you
Speaker 2: look at how good the Calves have been in the
Speaker 2: clutch this season. They are twentieth in terms of how
Speaker 2: many clutch games they've been in, but they are number
Speaker 2: one clutch wins. They have twenty wins in the clutch
Speaker 2: this season, right, sorry, twenty two wins in the clutch
Speaker 2: this season. The outscore opponents by thirty seven point nine
Speaker 2: points per one hundred possessions. In those scenarios, they have
Speaker 2: a one to thirty nine point five offensive rating and
Speaker 2: a one to one point six d rating.
Speaker 1: That is just have it. An offensive rating in the
Speaker 1: clutch eleven points better than the best offensive player of
Speaker 1: his generation in Nikolay Jokic is pretty freaking phenomenal.
Speaker 2: It's this team's pretty damn good, Carter. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've heard some rumors about it, but they they
Speaker 2: get it done. And you know the funny thing with
Speaker 2: Darius two, you look at what he's done in the
Speaker 2: clutch this season. I do think that there is a
Speaker 2: difference between the last five minutes within five points and
Speaker 2: the last minute of the game when everything is on
Speaker 2: the line and you're within five points, so I was like,
Speaker 2: let's filter that down. How's he doing in the last minute.
Speaker 2: He is shooting seven of nine from the field, three
Speaker 2: of three from three, and sixteen of twenty from the
Speaker 2: free throw line. Again, all of those misses basically coming
Speaker 2: versus Houston.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a real bummer that he's not gonna
Speaker 1: win Clutch Player of the Year, which is an award
Speaker 1: I never cared about because it only has existed for
Speaker 1: like two years. But just on the back of the
Speaker 1: Cavs haven't played enough clutch minutes. Yeah, you know, because
Speaker 1: they are twenty seventh. They've only played ninety three minutes
Speaker 1: in the clutch so far this season. And you know,
Speaker 1: the Knicks were in took close games every five minutes,
Speaker 1: are eighth. So Brunston's gonna win it, and that's fine.
Speaker 2: The silly thing about that is they have the most
Speaker 2: clutch wins. They have the most clutch wins this season.
Speaker 1: We have the most everything, justin.
Speaker 2: Why do you get punished for entering clutch time another
Speaker 2: team's close to you and you punch them in the
Speaker 2: mouth and you get out of that clutch time? Why
Speaker 2: is it a benefit and why Is it a reflection
Speaker 2: of you know, your nerves, the steel and your ability
Speaker 2: to get it done in the clutch. If you mess around,
Speaker 2: let that team hang around and go down to the
Speaker 2: wire pad those stats less efficiently. Why is that?
Speaker 1: You want to know the real answer? Right, Maybe the
Speaker 1: real answer is is not that serious of an award.
Speaker 2: You're probably right. They probably just filter who has the
Speaker 2: most clutch points this season and that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just made it up. They made it up
Speaker 1: like five minutes ago, made it up for as long
Speaker 1: as clutch time exists in an NBA game. You know what, Carter,
Speaker 1: just because something hasn't been around a long time doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it doesn't have value.
Speaker 2: That's why I value zoom Ai Companion. Because only you
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Speaker 1: Oh man, what a year. What a year.
Speaker 2: But we talked about the win. We talked about you know,
Speaker 2: Darius and how it was a bit of a top
Speaker 2: heavy performance. But I think we would be not doing
Speaker 2: our jobs if we weren't giving credits to the bigs.
Speaker 2: Kevin Mowbley and Jared Allen were fantastic last night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were unbelievable. I mean Jared especially. I mean
Speaker 1: Kenny said Jared was the MVP for them, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. I thought he was the biggest reason
Speaker 1: that they were locking Brooklyn down on the other end
Speaker 1: of the floor. I thought his rebounding was phenomenal. I
Speaker 1: thought his finishing was phenomenal, both hands, ducking through, catching
Speaker 1: on the boot, move, finishing at the ram, get into
Speaker 1: the line. I got eleven free throws justin you know,
Speaker 1: they don't win that game in a game where they
Speaker 1: can't hit the broadside of the barn. They ten to
Speaker 1: forty two from three. They don't win that game without
Speaker 1: some freebies. And you know, JA hitting nine of his
Speaker 1: eleven is like really really important. So particularly when you
Speaker 1: know there's concerns about how's the hand doing, He's going
Speaker 1: just left a little bit more. Yeah, And I want
Speaker 1: to talk about that because I just think we generally
Speaker 1: should have a rest conversation and and you know, how
Speaker 1: how to attack the rest of the season. Seventeen games left,
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, I mean the hand definitely still is
Speaker 1: not all the way right. So the fact that he
Speaker 1: really I thought, I thought he, you know, Darius was
Speaker 1: the the sizzle. Jared was the steak in that win.
Speaker 1: He was phenomenal. Evan also very very good, just had
Speaker 1: a bit of a quieter second half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Evan was that nice tall glass of wine that
Speaker 2: complimented the steak.
Speaker 1: That's nice. Let's just keep this analogy going. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jarry's phenomenal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought Jared was really really good on the night.
Speaker 2: I noticed early on, you know, going back to that hand,
Speaker 2: there was a couple of times where he had the
Speaker 2: right hook and kind of forced his way back to
Speaker 2: the left to go up that way. So that's you know,
Speaker 2: when we're doing the body doctor stuff that that's the
Speaker 2: kind of stuff that I really noticed.
Speaker 1: Prestling Gardens and the YouTube chat just said o'koro was
Speaker 1: the green beans.
Speaker 2: Oh, he was absolutely the green beans. Well stock taken asparagus,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, no little you know, graded parmesan on
Speaker 2: the asparagus. Yeah. I thought that's exactly what he brought
Speaker 2: to the table, which, you know, what what a perfect
Speaker 2: before you know, I'll get back to the Bigs in
Speaker 2: a moment, but you know, they jog my memory here,
Speaker 2: what a perfect game. After our conversation about o'coro about
Speaker 2: how the way he's been used makes us less reliant
Speaker 2: on the three point shot to determine whether or not
Speaker 2: he's going to have an effective game, he goes oh
Speaker 2: five from the three point line. But everybody that watched
Speaker 2: that game saw the impact that Okoro had. He was
Speaker 2: making the right reads as a passer, He got three
Speaker 2: offensive rebounds, he got some steals. The defensive impact was
Speaker 2: absolutely there. I thought it was a terrific game from
Speaker 2: o'corl And as much as I would have liked some
Speaker 2: of those threes to drop, I thought it was just
Speaker 2: a perfect encapsulation of what we talked about on the
Speaker 2: last podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was phenomenal. Honestly, he was so phenomenal that
Speaker 1: every time Cam Thomas got up a shot where he
Speaker 1: wasn't being guarded by o'coro, I was kind of sitting
Speaker 1: on my couch being like, what are we doing? Go
Speaker 1: put the guy who guards him on him.
Speaker 2: Ever since, ever since Terry Rogier fell off a cliff,
Speaker 2: Cam Thomas is now that guy that just kind of
Speaker 2: freaks me out every time shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's terrifying, so, like you know, and whether it
Speaker 1: was Darius, whether it was Meyrill, whether whoever it was,
Speaker 1: Cam Thomas just was shooting like they weren't there, you know,
Speaker 1: And when o'corra was on them, it changed the changed
Speaker 1: his night, you know, and I just I wanted to
Speaker 1: see more. I thought he was really really impactful defensively.
Speaker 1: I think you're right that it was kind of the
Speaker 1: perfect follow up to our conversation where he was making
Speaker 1: his impact all over. It's hard to go three of
Speaker 1: ten and zero for five from three as a starting
Speaker 1: shooting guard V plus seven if you're not doing everything
Speaker 1: else really really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I think the impact that
Speaker 2: he had on the defensive end, both the bigs, I
Speaker 2: thought they were terrific defensively. And you know, through this
Speaker 2: winning streak with the Cavs slumping a little bit, I
Speaker 2: think it's noteworthy to kind of point out the issues
Speaker 2: are kind of coming on the offensive end, right. They've
Speaker 2: fallen off just a little bit in their consistency there.
Speaker 2: They've had a few off shooting nights You'll look at
Speaker 2: since the All Star break. They still do have the
Speaker 2: number one net rating since the All Star Break. Makes sense.
Speaker 2: They haven't lost a game, but they're third offensively and
Speaker 2: they are number two in defense. They've been better on
Speaker 2: defense than they have been offensively, and I think some
Speaker 2: of that is they've been very healthy. Right, They've had
Speaker 2: both bigs consistently. Isaac Okoru is back playing within the lineup.
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter has undoubtedly had an impact on the defensive end,
Speaker 2: and just even when they're slumping, even when they're not
Speaker 2: playing particularly well on the offensive end and they're falling behind,
Speaker 2: usually they're falling behind because the shots aren't falling in
Speaker 2: the offense. Isn't there. Maybe they've had a couple turnovers
Speaker 2: and gave up fast break fast break points or an
Speaker 2: offensive rebound, but it generally hasn't been. Hey, these guys
Speaker 2: aren't trying on the defensive end. The consistent effort on
Speaker 2: the defensive side of the floor has been what's allowed
Speaker 2: them to get back into these games and ultimately win them.
Speaker 1: Can I know a little something something? What's that most
Speaker 1: All Star Break? Oklahoma City thunder sixteenth in defense? You know, Carter,
Speaker 1: if you know what? And what I'm gonna say is
Speaker 1: a very take, motivated take. It's not the most good
Speaker 1: self aware. That's good self aware. That the most objective
Speaker 1: take I've ever thrown out there. Maybe playing two bigs
Speaker 1: on defense isn't as easy as everyone says it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad that's the angle you took. I was
Speaker 2: going to say, you know, cuz you.
Speaker 1: Know home Grin gets back, Everyone's like, oh, with him
Speaker 1: at the four and Hardenstein at the five, no one's
Speaker 1: going to be able to score on them. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm a it's not like I've looked at the lineup data. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm not this is not a good faith take, but like,
Speaker 1: I just think it's noteworthy that maybe not everyone can
Speaker 1: do it the way we do it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a fair point. Now looking at the numbers, now,
Speaker 2: chet and Hernstein have played one hundred and forty three
Speaker 2: minutes together. They have a one to fifteen defensive rating
Speaker 2: in that time plus twelve point three nets. So offense
Speaker 2: has been crushing at one twenty seven, but the defense
Speaker 2: hasn't necessarily been there.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's really maybe it's hard to lose all
Speaker 1: the mobility and switchiness of a Jared Allen Evan Mobley
Speaker 1: front court. Maybe it's a little harder when you're you're
Speaker 1: when one of your two bigs is really a drop
Speaker 1: big and the other one is a switch big. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's a big part of what's made the
Speaker 2: defense so special, is that Mobile and Allen both are
Speaker 2: able to guard at the perimeter. I think that mobility,
Speaker 2: even it has an impact on the offensive end right
Speaker 2: Like they will play five outs sometimes for a possession
Speaker 2: or two even with both bigs there, because they trust
Speaker 2: their ability to set those screens above the three point line,
Speaker 2: catch the ball on the move, and make the right
Speaker 2: reads and react in those spots. He can trust everybody
Speaker 2: to do that. Isaiah Hartenstein is a terrific passer. His
Speaker 2: feel for the game is phenomenal. You can get him
Speaker 2: on the ball in the move and he'll throw lobs
Speaker 2: to the dunker spot some of you know, the two
Speaker 2: man game with him and Chet has been really fun
Speaker 2: in the games I watch. That doesn't always translate to
Speaker 2: the defensive end. As he said, he is kind of
Speaker 2: a true drop big. Is this one, as you said,
Speaker 2: a great faith take? No, but I absolutely not. But
Speaker 2: I do think let's just you know, use it as
Speaker 2: a means to give our bigs credit because they have
Speaker 2: been phenomenal, and I think how seamless that has been
Speaker 2: on the defensive end of the court since day one
Speaker 2: really goes to show you just how unique that pairing is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are so freaking phenomenal. They've been phenomenal from
Speaker 1: the second we put them together. And I think assuming
Speaker 1: that like sized players, even like talented players, could just
Speaker 1: immediately replicate that even with better defensive personnel at the
Speaker 1: front of the defense.
Speaker 2: That's a great point as well.
Speaker 1: It's just not that easy to to especially for a
Speaker 1: team like that that you know, gives up a lot
Speaker 1: of corner threes and stuff like that. It's hard for
Speaker 1: bigs to recover out like that. It's hard for them
Speaker 1: to dig in on penetration and then rEFInd their man
Speaker 1: who's relocated to a different point of the three three point.
Speaker 1: It just matters. So I again, I'm not my best
Speaker 1: faith take, but I do. But you're right as to
Speaker 1: use it as a means of kind of propping up
Speaker 1: our boys who have been who have needed no adjustment
Speaker 1: to be great together on that end of the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and since Donovan joined the team, we're talking about
Speaker 2: a six thousand possession sample of the two bigs together.
Speaker 2: They have a one to eleven defensive rating in that
Speaker 2: time plus seven net. They've been phenomenal, right, And you know,
Speaker 2: there's always been those concerns of hey, how's that going
Speaker 2: to work with the two guards and the two bigs, Right,
Speaker 2: They're like, are those two bigs out there just to
Speaker 2: cover for the guards? And you look at the minutes
Speaker 2: that the four of them have played together over these
Speaker 2: last three years, four thousand possessions, the defense is actually
Speaker 2: better when the two guards are out there. It's a
Speaker 2: one ten point eight defensive rating, one nineteen offensive rating.
Speaker 2: That core four has been fantastic in their time together.
Speaker 2: We had a bit of a lull last season, and
Speaker 2: I continue to you know, yell from the mountaintops. The
Speaker 2: sample this season is dramatically smaller than the one the
Speaker 2: year prior, and they have not been healthy for any
Speaker 2: of it. There has been hamstring injuries for the guards.
Speaker 2: There's been mobilely coming off a knee surgery. There were
Speaker 2: so many factors that when we had.
Speaker 1: Knee surgery last year and we just kind of didn't
Speaker 1: no one even acknowledged it. Really, I forgot about it
Speaker 1: until you just said it.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's one of those things that always
Speaker 2: drives me crazy as someone that listens to national podcasts
Speaker 2: looking for reasons to get upset. Any time that like
Speaker 2: a little nuance is brought up with one team and
Speaker 2: then a massive thing like surgery gets overlooked with the
Speaker 2: calves drives me nuts. It's like, well, you know, Payton
Speaker 2: Pritchard got stuck in traffic on Tuesday, so it's it's
Speaker 2: okay that he had a bit of an off shooting game.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, traffic in Boston can be really rough justin.
Speaker 2: I've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard that many times.
Speaker 1: I'll say it. Can we talk a little rest based,
Speaker 1: you know, now that we are on the health train.
Speaker 1: I just generally wanted to discuss this because, you know, Darius,
Speaker 1: ever since he falls, has that hard fall, hasn't quite
Speaker 1: been himself. Fourth quarter and Nomal standing uh and Jarrett
Speaker 1: in the post game basically said, yeah, my hand still hurts,
Speaker 1: still kind of hurts a lot, okay, and it's hard
Speaker 1: for me to hard for me to do power dribbles
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I don't actually want to miss quotehim.
Speaker 1: I don't remember if he said a lot, but he
Speaker 1: said it still hurts. You know, it's hard for me
Speaker 1: to do power dribbles with that hand compared to my
Speaker 1: left and stuff like that. And you know, they are,
Speaker 1: you know, a weird kind of semi precarious spot where
Speaker 1: they're trying to lock up home court through the entire playoffs.
Speaker 1: And there are two games up on Okay, see as
Speaker 1: we speak, going into going into Wednesday night, they have
Speaker 1: a chance. I mean, they look very likely Frank to
Speaker 1: set a new franchise record for wins, and they're flirting
Speaker 1: with a seventy win season. They have to finish fifteen
Speaker 1: and two, which is about the pace they've played at
Speaker 1: all year. And my question to you is, like, I
Speaker 1: know Jared really wanted to play all ed two, but
Speaker 1: like and and Darius, you know, I think definitely wants
Speaker 1: to prove that, you know, you know, his toughness and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Do you start doing some targeted rests
Speaker 1: up and down with these guys who are a little
Speaker 1: banged up, you know, even ty Jerome. If you had
Speaker 1: told me ty Jerome is going to get a rest
Speaker 1: game last year, oh okay, yeah, go ahead, Like last year,
Speaker 1: I would have been like, oh my god, like.
Speaker 2: What, Yeah, the standard for rest game was a little
Speaker 2: higher last year, and guys were playing a whole lot
Speaker 2: more much.
Speaker 1: It is more like normally role players don't get those
Speaker 1: rest games because they don't play. You know, he was
Speaker 1: we weren't sure if he was going to be in
Speaker 1: the rotation at the beginning of the year, So you know,
Speaker 1: part of that's you know, the injury history, right, you
Speaker 1: you want to give a guy like that the opportunities
Speaker 1: to rest in particularly, as I said, was in quite
Speaker 1: a bit of a shooting slump the last six games.
Speaker 2: So but I think I didn't give those conversations. I
Speaker 2: think you have those conversations.
Speaker 1: I actually want to frame a question to you because
Speaker 1: I think we've already discussed like if a guy is
Speaker 1: like hurt hurt, you absolutely should sit him. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: if a guy is healthy, healthy, he should play. That
Speaker 1: has generally been our party line for these guys who
Speaker 1: have some slightly nagging injuries like or things that like
Speaker 1: aren't stopping them from playing, wouldn't stop them from playing
Speaker 1: in the postseason. But like you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: and they're telling you I'm fine, I'm good to play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those people do you say, do you still go? I
Speaker 1: hear that you feel good to play. We're going to
Speaker 1: give you, uh, you know, we're going to find spots
Speaker 1: like Friday where we have two days off and you
Speaker 1: know we can find we can keep you it in
Speaker 1: Cleveland for basically five six days and let you just
Speaker 1: rest whatever malady you have. Like, are you doing that?
Speaker 1: Because I think I am.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you need to have those conversations with
Speaker 2: the player. I think you need to. You know, we
Speaker 2: obviously don't know the particulars. No, I'm very I'm very
Speaker 2: far from a professional athlete. But the one thing I
Speaker 2: do have some very far from a professional trainer.
Speaker 1: We're not there either.
Speaker 2: But the one thing I do actually have way too
Speaker 2: much experience with is rehabbing injuries. And sometimes you do
Speaker 2: have you know, nagging ailments and more exercises is part
Speaker 2: of the prescription. Hey, you're not going to hurt it
Speaker 2: by it by doing this. You got to work your
Speaker 2: way through it. You know, sometimes rest is going to
Speaker 2: work in the opposite direction. Now, I think when it
Speaker 2: comes to something like a finger heeling, I trust them
Speaker 2: that they got the wrap on there, but you know,
Speaker 2: you can't do more damage I don't think Darius would
Speaker 2: be playing if it was a situation where hey, if
Speaker 2: he's playing, he's going to do more damage to it.
Speaker 2: But I think you do have those conversations with the
Speaker 2: guys of hey, we have an opportunity to give you
Speaker 2: a rest here, that this might be beneficial. Are you
Speaker 2: open to it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like advocating for it, because ultimately you don't want to
Speaker 2: go completely against the players witches, but you have to
Speaker 2: advocate in the right direction. And I actually think this
Speaker 2: is one of those spots where having a veteran like
Speaker 2: Tristan Thompson is probably really valuable. Tristan in the sixteen
Speaker 2: seventeen season, not only was he coming off the long
Speaker 2: Finals run, but he you know, sacrificed to play for
Speaker 2: Team Canada that offseason. He was keeping that iron Man
Speaker 2: streak going during the sixteen seventeen season, and I eventually
Speaker 2: he just wore down and he did have to miss
Speaker 2: some time, and he wasn't himself in the twenty seventeen playoffs.
Speaker 2: You know, he wasn't moving around the same way that
Speaker 2: he did in the past. It was never himself again.
Speaker 2: He bounced back a little bit in eighteen. I think
Speaker 2: he you know he had. You know, we don't win
Speaker 2: that game against Indiana in the first round without him
Speaker 2: having one of those throwback performances. But I think it
Speaker 2: is unbelievable, especially when it comes to Tristan. Don't don't
Speaker 2: you worry about that, man. I'm going to remember that
Speaker 2: my my Canadian bias here. But I do think Tristan
Speaker 2: is a good advocate for this. Of Hey, I had
Speaker 2: this goal. I wanted to keep the iron Man streak going.
Speaker 2: It probably didn't work in my favor. I don't think
Speaker 2: I ever have heard him speak to it. But just
Speaker 2: thinking back to, you know, an example of this and
Speaker 2: a guy that's currently in the locker room, maybe that
Speaker 2: is something that they can go to. Again, we're speculating
Speaker 2: because we don't know, you know, what the condition is.
Speaker 2: But I do think there's going to be opportunities to
Speaker 2: get these guys down rest, down the stretch. I think
Speaker 2: those opportunities exist because they have worked so hard this season.
Speaker 1: I had a bit of a dumb thought. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say it. You're probably gonna roll your eyes. It
Speaker 1: does kind of make me feel like, hey, guys, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna do this and when you get to the postseason.
Speaker 1: You better take care of business in these series, like
Speaker 1: don't have a seven game war of attrition for no reason, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't play with your food, get sweeps, get five game series,
Speaker 1: and get out so you can recover and get ready
Speaker 1: for the next one. I don't know, was that was
Speaker 1: that completely moron?
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the thing, Carter, because you're making me think
Speaker 2: you had that sit down with Kenny to start the season.
Speaker 2: We might need to have another one of those opportunities
Speaker 2: before the playoffs where you share the strategy of winning
Speaker 2: games if possible. Yeah, with Kenny. I think I think
Speaker 2: that might blow his mind.
Speaker 1: I think it's saying from an injury, from a healing perspective, Yes,
Speaker 1: like if you're gonna if like I was just thinking, like,
Speaker 1: because where if you're not going to do the rest
Speaker 1: thing where your opportunity is going to present themselves, it's
Speaker 1: going to be sitting while other teams are in knockdown,
Speaker 1: drag out series.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: But glad to know it was indeed a moronic take.
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable justin I asked it's you know, it's a
Speaker 1: little obvious, but I think you're right, and you know,
Speaker 1: to your point.
Speaker 2: Not only is that good from a rest standpoint, I
Speaker 2: think we need to see it. Right. We haven't seen
Speaker 2: them have a dominant playoff series. Them smoking a team
Speaker 2: in the first round or you know, if you play
Speaker 2: a Milwaukee in the second round, I think that's going
Speaker 2: to be a challenge. But if you handle them comfortably
Speaker 2: in five games, not only is beating Jannis a feather
Speaker 2: in your cap, that's that's a real statement that when
Speaker 2: you take care of business against a very good team,
Speaker 2: that that is something that you can actually you know,
Speaker 2: that's going to lift up your confidence. You're going to
Speaker 2: feel better about your chances going into a Boston series.
Speaker 2: So I think taking care of business from a rest standpoint,
Speaker 2: from a confidence standpoint, all of that's so important because
Speaker 2: we're talking about a team that hasn't been to a
Speaker 2: conference finals. Not a lot of teams have, you know,
Speaker 2: not gone to a conference finals and go on to
Speaker 2: win a championship. I think that's one of those spots
Speaker 2: where we once again have a comparison to the Golden
Speaker 2: State Warriors in twenty fifteen. But I think the Calves
Speaker 2: taking care of business, giving themselves those rest opportunities and
Speaker 2: building on that confidence is a big deal.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I had to put you full screen. There's a
Speaker 1: daddy long legs crawling on my wall. It's a big
Speaker 1: ass spider and full disclosure. The single screen freaked me
Speaker 1: out a little bit. I was like, Oh, does he
Speaker 1: think I'm making a good point?
Speaker 2: Are you trying to clip this for social I was
Speaker 2: going to wrap up my point, but you just put
Speaker 2: me on single screen.
Speaker 1: Brother. Let me tell you, every time I put you
Speaker 1: on single screen, it's because I'm moving out a frame.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's very good to know. That's very good to know.
Speaker 2: I mean, so Phil, Phil, Yeah, I at least I
Speaker 2: had the right instinct to fill there. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm proud. Struggling a little bit, I'm having trouble talking today.
Speaker 2: I got dent to stuff I gotta do on Friday,
Speaker 2: a little bit annoying. I'm tired Daylight savings even though
Speaker 2: I don't have a kid carter. So you know, thank
Speaker 2: you for once again putting me on the spot.
Speaker 1: Listen, man, it's a I saw a spider on my wall.
Speaker 1: I had to get rid of it. I don't know
Speaker 1: it was going to distract me for the rest of
Speaker 1: the podcast. That's totally fair.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you are so you know we cover
Speaker 2: the rest topic. Is there anything you're looking for from
Speaker 2: this Memphis game? You know, even without Darius, that was
Speaker 2: a tougher game in Cleveland. I think it's obviously a
Speaker 2: different animal without Jared Jackson Junior. He has been their
Speaker 2: best player this season. But that's still a good team
Speaker 2: that can potentially test you here.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I no, I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to see what they do with jaw, especially if Darius
Speaker 1: doesn't play, you know, is it gonna be more Isaac
Speaker 1: o Quoro on him? But really, I just I'm just
Speaker 1: kind of now counting wins, like I just want to
Speaker 1: see wins. I don't actually really care too much how
Speaker 1: we get up the mountain because this team has really
Speaker 1: shown me almost this bad podcast pressed into set, but
Speaker 1: I do feel like the team has just shown me
Speaker 1: just about everything else that I want to see, Like,
Speaker 1: I just want to see them. I want to see
Speaker 1: how far this wind streak can go. I'd love, you know,
Speaker 1: I how long does the wind streak go? Before you
Speaker 1: think seventy is possible? Before you not just possible, but
Speaker 1: like you think we're getting it. Because I was thinking
Speaker 1: watching them when they were down eighteen to Brooklyn, I
Speaker 1: was like, man, I don't know if they're going to
Speaker 1: be able to get to seventy if they lose here.
Speaker 2: You know, I think they got to win seven more
Speaker 2: before I think seventy is possible.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go if the wind Streak gets to twenty.
Speaker 1: If they get to twenty, which is absurd sentence, if
Speaker 1: the wind Streak gets to two, that means they only
Speaker 1: got to go ten in two to close the year. Yeah.
Speaker 2: See, I'm thinking it's got to be eight in two.
Speaker 2: Like the last ten games go eight in two. You
Speaker 2: can do that. A game eighty two probably going to
Speaker 2: see guys rest. You know. That's That's kind of where
Speaker 2: I'm at. Not often that you're you're more optimistic than me,
Speaker 2: but I think you know, tying into that your thoughts
Speaker 2: about Memphis there the real test the rest of the
Speaker 2: way is playing against themselves. I think we have seen
Speaker 2: them get it done against sow Casee, We've seen them
Speaker 2: get it done against Boston, We've seen them get it
Speaker 2: done against the best teams in the league. The individual
Speaker 2: matchup questions aren't as interesting now. I think their main
Speaker 2: opponent is themselves they're playing against the streak. They're playing
Speaker 2: against this very difficult schedule where for the rest of
Speaker 2: the month they are not going to play in the
Speaker 2: same city consecutive nights. They are always going to be
Speaker 2: on the road. You are playing against the NBA schedule,
Speaker 2: and you're playing against the streak, and you're playing against yourselves,
Speaker 2: you're playing against complacency because you have already wrapped up
Speaker 2: the number one seed in the Eastern Conference. All these
Speaker 2: human components are the major factors here more than oh, well,
Speaker 2: what are they going to do tactically against the John
Speaker 2: Moran No, Like, we know that they can get it done.
Speaker 2: We know that they can defend just about any team
Speaker 2: in the league. We know they can score on just
Speaker 2: about any team in the league. It's about how long
Speaker 2: can they maintain this consistency?
Speaker 1: Man, I really want seventy wins? Man, Like that is
Speaker 1: like such a special threshold. A cross like that is like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd be the third team in the because like,
Speaker 1: here's where I keep going back to all these stats,
Speaker 1: like the second team in history to have three twelve
Speaker 1: game win streaks, you know, the sixth team to have
Speaker 1: two fifteen game win streaks, that's cool, but aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: wrapped around a complete success. You know, like like you know,
Speaker 1: no one, no one remembers the O six Suns for
Speaker 1: how insanely dominant they were. We remember they were fun,
Speaker 1: you know, and very good. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They're like they weren't like a like I feel like
Speaker 1: the teams that win that you know are in that
Speaker 1: sixty nine, seventy seventy one, seventy two, seventy three range. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are like those teams where you just you really
Speaker 1: remember them because it wasn't This is over an eighty
Speaker 1: two game sample. You know, they didn't get hot for
Speaker 1: a month or a month and a half, like, and like,
Speaker 1: it just feels like another level of crazy on It's
Speaker 1: like a hat on a hat on a hat on
Speaker 1: a hat of all the crazy fun that this season
Speaker 1: has been. So it'd be really fun to see him
Speaker 1: hit it. I don't think they will, but it'd be
Speaker 1: really fun to see them hit it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you to some extent because I I
Speaker 2: guess I haven't thought about seventy a whole lot.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've thought about it so much,
Speaker 1: but I've been thinking about it since like like the
Speaker 1: forty game mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just want to get the team record,
Speaker 2: like that's been the only thing. But you're right that
Speaker 2: that would be significant the coward in me, and you know,
Speaker 2: chat feel free to boom me. You know, if you're
Speaker 2: listening on Spotify, there's a common section there, you can
Speaker 2: boom me there as well. I'm a little cowardly, and
Speaker 2: I think having seventy is just going to put that
Speaker 2: extra a little bit of target on your back. And
Speaker 2: I kind of are a coward kind of still like
Speaker 2: that even as the one seed, we're going to be
Speaker 2: the underdog going into the Eastern Conference finals. I like
Speaker 2: being in that angle.
Speaker 1: Hold on. Let me let me reframe it for you, fella.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine how disrespected that locker room will feel
Speaker 1: as an underdog in a series after winning seventy games
Speaker 1: in a season. Feed off that come on, brother, join me,
Speaker 1: join me.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I see where you're coming from. Let's let's
Speaker 2: get seventy. Let's get it done. Let's let's shock the world.
Speaker 2: Let's beat Boston, let's beat Okay, see if they get
Speaker 2: that far, you know, they got to figure out that
Speaker 2: too big thing. It's uh I've heard years and years
Speaker 2: of content saying that that's impossible to make work. Uh,
Speaker 2: so we'll see if they can get it done. I'm
Speaker 2: with you. Let's let's get seventy. Let's put the pressure
Speaker 2: on ourselves and let's deliver.
Speaker 1: Yes, come on, bro, let's go.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you said nobody remembers that the six
Speaker 2: Sons how dominant they were. I was giving your first
Speaker 2: round details from twenty eighteen about what Tristan Thompson did you.
Speaker 2: Of course I'm going to remember. I remember the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the beauty of them? I don't remember
Speaker 1: them feeling unbeatable.
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's back then, regular season basketball, anytime a
Speaker 2: team was rolling, and I love that team. I thought
Speaker 2: that they could win. You know, I thought the on
Speaker 2: nine Cavs were absolutely going to win. Oh six Sons?
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Rajah Bell, Boris Diao, Sean Marion
Speaker 2: k I.
Speaker 1: Really don't think I'm a smart man because my memory
Speaker 1: is so horrible.
Speaker 2: Dude. I feel like every legend James Jones was on
Speaker 2: that team. I'm very sure everything before I was like
Speaker 2: nineteen years old didn't even happen. I don't remember anything,
Speaker 2: no details. Well, you've done a number on your body, buddy,
Speaker 2: all all your habits, all your recreational habits that have
Speaker 2: fried your memory mind.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even have that big of recreational habits. I
Speaker 1: just think I'm stupid.
Speaker 2: You're I'm throwing stones from my glasshouse. But my one
Speaker 2: memory is going to be basketball stuff, little details, especially
Speaker 2: those teams, those teams I had such an emotional connection to,
Speaker 2: and I think that's what's made me so excited about
Speaker 2: this season. This team has kind of reinvigorated that real
Speaker 2: emotional connection. A team that just no matter how they're
Speaker 2: playing on a given night, they find a way to
Speaker 2: get it done. They play such a fun style. You know,
Speaker 2: they really do remind me of kind of those beautiful
Speaker 2: basketball teams, whether it be the six Sons that are
Speaker 2: doing something that I.
Speaker 1: Got a little take for you because our boy domin
Speaker 1: Rangoula mentioned that that what in that Bucks game that
Speaker 1: you know, watching the Calves reminds him of the beautiful
Speaker 1: game Spurs, and I was thinking about how I agree
Speaker 1: with that compliment. I don't think it's like a sacrilegious
Speaker 1: thing to say, but it's actually a crazier compliment because
Speaker 1: those Spurs were like in their mid thirties up and
Speaker 1: down the roster. Yeah, these Caves are in their mid twenties.
Speaker 1: They're playing this way without the benefit of like seven
Speaker 1: or eight years of reps. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2: That reminds me. We got tagged in a tweet where
Speaker 2: Darren Patrick was talking about the and how they need
Speaker 2: to be talked about more this season. But he was saying,
Speaker 2: you know, they're not sexy, they're not fun to watch.
Speaker 2: They kind of play like the twenty fourteen Spurs, where
Speaker 2: like I think.
Speaker 1: He was I'm gonna defend him. I think he was
Speaker 1: more saying that's what the national media would say about them.
Speaker 2: Maybe whatever's point was, I at least appreciate the consistency
Speaker 2: of I don't think this is fun or you know,
Speaker 2: there's a narrative that's not fun. But it's like the
Speaker 2: twenty fourteens, perst because that team was absolutely fun. That
Speaker 2: ball movement was absolutely fun. Running through you know, Evan Mobley,
Speaker 2: just like Tim Duncan, is a lot of fun. Having
Speaker 2: dynamic guards that can get it done, getting those threes up,
Speaker 2: generating clean looks. The Cavs play beautiful beautiful team basketball,
Speaker 2: and there are more than their fair share of individual highlights,
Speaker 2: whether it be Darius closing in the clutch, whether it's
Speaker 2: Donovan dunking on everybody, whether it's Evan Mobley or Jared
Speaker 2: Allen randomly choosing violence on Brook Lopez or other victims.
Speaker 2: It has been the most fun season that I watched
Speaker 2: as a cas man.
Speaker 1: We might need to resurrect the Slim Duncan nickname for
Speaker 1: ev I really liked that one.
Speaker 2: Did you like Slim Duncan or Evan Garnett more? I
Speaker 2: liked I like Slim Duncan better. I thought it was funnier,
Speaker 2: even though the garden Net comp might be a little
Speaker 2: more apps. I just I've always liked the you know,
Speaker 2: I've always liked the demeanor comp more than the play
Speaker 2: style comp with Evan. Yeah, because the demeanor is all Timmy.
Speaker 2: It's it's much more tim You're You're right, I I
Speaker 2: I do really really enjoy that comp. And I enjoy
Speaker 2: these podcasts.
Speaker 1: Buddy.
Speaker 2: It's always fun to talk to you. It's always fun
Speaker 2: to hang out with all of our viewers in YouTube.
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Speaker 1: St shining Down, Shad