WEBVTT - 4/10/25: Trump Admits Caving On Tariffs, Bond Market Bomb, Insider Trading Scandal 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.599 Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:05.200 Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.840 and we are so excited about what that means for 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:08.720 the future of this show. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.760 This is the only place where you can find honest 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.280 perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.680 not exist anywhere else. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.080 So if that is something that's important to you, please 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.920 you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.600 all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.560 We need your help to build the future of independent 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.920 news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:36.120 dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. Have an amazing 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:37.879 show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:38.599 Indeed we do. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.680 It looks like the cultural revolution is off that intellectuals 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:43.840 are going to get at least a reprieve from being 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.920 sent to the iPhone factory to screw in all of 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.000 the little little screw for ninety days temporarily. Anyway, of course, 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:52.880 we're going to cover a lot about the tariffs. Show 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.680 is not one hundred percent tariffs, but it's about ninety 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.280 percent tariffs. I would say we've got Joe Wisenthal coming 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.960 in to break down what Trump is doing, what it means, 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.280 market reaction, all of that good stuff. We've got some 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.959 pretty serious and I think pretty credible allegations of insider trading. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.679 So we will break down for you the timeline and 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.840 the evidence and you can evaluate for yourself. We got 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.840 a bunch of you know, Republicans and administration officials. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:18.760 What they were saying. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.120 Before the pause or the roll back, what they're saying now. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:23.240 It's pretty extraordinary. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.600 The President himself being much more honest about the reason 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.480 that he decided to change course. Basically got freaked out 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.360 by the bond market, so he joined the Panicans. I 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.000 guess I'm really excited for this. We have Ryan Peterson, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.160 he's the CEO of Flexport, coming on to talk about 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.280 also this terraf regime, what is going to mean. But 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.480 also more importantly, there's another change that's coming down the 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.680 pike that we briefly mentioned the other day that could 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:53.720 be incredibly significant and quite devastating to supply chains and 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.200 to global shipping. So really want to hear from him 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.600 on that. And then we've got a couple of updates 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.040 with regard to both immigration policy, social media accounts are 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.600 now going to be filtered for any sort of quote 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.520 unquote anti semitism before people are given student visas or 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.440 green card status, things like that. And also we have 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.519 a quite significant couple of court updates with regard to 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.520 the Alien Enemies Acts that wanted to follow up on 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:19.680 that since we had that segment with Peaceco breaking down 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:20.480 the Supreme Court. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:21.799 Ruling the other day. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.400 So to all of you guys who have been helping 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.400 us out this week amidst a lot of economic turmoil, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.440 we have really really appreciated. We've seen a big spike 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.400 this week just because of interest in tariffs on what's 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.440 going on. So if you can become a premium member, 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.760 of course, we really appreciate it. If you can't do that, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.400 totally get it. If you can like, if you can subscribe, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.480 if you can share the videos, that helps us tremendously. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:44.560 Exactly right Breakingpoints dot com. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.120 And for the podcast listeners, we don't forget about you either. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.160 As we said, the best thing you can do leave 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.520 a five star review or take the episode literally, just 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.079 share it with a friend. It's tremendously impactful. So let's 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:56.960 you go ahead and start with the tariffs, as you 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.160 said the White House. I'm sure some of you have 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.640 heard at the point a pause is on. Let's go 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.400 and put it up there on the screen. Quote based 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.880 on the lack of respect China has shown to the 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.480 world market, I am hereby raising the tariff charged to 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.519 China by the United States of America to one hundred 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.840 and twenty five percent effective immediately. That's a retaliation for 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.600 their eighty four percent tariff that was put into place. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.640 There's still some big questions as to that one hundred 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.120 and twenty five percent tariff. Does it in addition to 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.440 the twenty percent tariff that we're there meaning would be 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.920 what is that one hundred and fifty five percent tariff? 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.480 Seems to be possible, he says, But this is the 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:33.440 most important point. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.240 I have authorized a ninety day pause and substantially lowered 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.880 reciprocal tariff during this period of ten percent effective immediately, 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.440 he says, as a result of more than seventy five 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.880 countries that have called representatives of the United States to 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.760 express interest in negotiations. So immediately afterwards, there were a 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.760 lot of questions here did Trump cave? Did he Was 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.760 this his strategy all along? Was he a madman. Was 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.320 he bluffing? Did he have to convince people he was crazy? 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:00.520 Was it the art the deal? 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:01.280 Well? 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.520 Trump actually answered that for himself. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.640 He came out immediately in front steps of the White 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.480 House and he's like, yeah, I did it because people 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:10.240 were getting afraid. 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:11.240 Let's take a lesson. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.520 Why you decided to put a ninety day pause. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.000 Well, I thought that people were jumping a little bit 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.400 out of line. They were getting yippie, you know, they 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.120 were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.599 unlike these champions. Because we have a big job to do. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.719 No other president would have done what I did. No 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.080 other president I know, the presidents, they wouldn't have done it. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.800 And it had to be done. What was happening to 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.200 us on trade, not only with you know, if you 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.960 look at it, not only with China, but China is 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.159 by far the biggest abuser in history and others also. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.080 But somebody had to do it. They had to stop 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.760 because it was not sustainable. Last year, China made one 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.240 trillion dollars off trade with the United States. 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:59.160 It's not right. And now I've reversed it. It's for a. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.640 Short period of time, but we made two billion dollars. 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:07.880 We're making now two billion dollars a day, and somebody 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.960 had to do it. Roger actually said that Josh Schwab 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.679 was here a little while ago, one of the great 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.760 financial people, and he said he's been waiting for forty 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.240 years for somebody to do what I did over the 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:23.479 last month. Nothing's over yet, but we have a tremendous 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.200 amount of spirit from other countries, including China. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.520 China wants to make a deal. They just don't know 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:29.760 how quite to go about it. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:30.039 You know. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.640 It's one of those things that are not quite proud people. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:35.880 People are getting a little bit eppy. That's what the 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.560 president says. Yet, if you listen to his advisors, this 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.440 was the plan all along. Here's the Commerce Secretary, Howard 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.840 luck Nick. Nobody backed off. Absolutely, this was all part 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:45.679 of the plan. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:46.679 Let's take a listen. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.159 So Miss Secretary tonight, you can definitively say this was 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.200 not a walk back. This was not something that the 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.080 bond markets were cratering and you were worried about it. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.240 You know that this is part of your plan. There's 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:00.760 a lot of folks saying and there were just mixed 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.200 messages that really left the markets jitterary. 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.640 Donald Trump is the best negotiator that there is. He 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.720 understands how to do these things, and he gave these 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.560 were crystal clear instructions. No negotiating till two days ago. 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.080 He would be willing to negotiate, but broadly, and then 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.839 yesterday was I'll do bespoke, and bespoke that's what launched it. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.200 I mean, every country wanted to come and talk to 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.200 us and what are we supposed to do? So Scott 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.160 and I went in and talked to him about what 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.200 do we do and how do we do it? And 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.599 I think this is where we are. So the President 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.040 made his decision. He truthed it out with Scott and 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.000 I in the room, just the three of us together, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.480 and this is where we are. We just Scott vested, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.400 myself and Ambassador Jameson Greer, who's our USTR, and just 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.160 have so much work to do with so many different countries. 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.039 But we've got to make fair deals for America. And 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.440 Donald Trump said, for the big countries, the lead negotiator 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.159 of those of those transactions is going to be Donald Trump. 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.280 He wants to do it, he wants to drive it. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.960 And what could be more fun for Scott and I it. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.120 Was not a background what could be more fun Sager. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.600 Marcus Gonning itpie, And so Trump says, we're doing it 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:15.600 because people got afraid. 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.480 Howard Ludning all part of the plan. You idiots never 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:20.640 read art of the deal. 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.240 Yeah, there's lot a single scrap of evidence to support that. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.640 And in reality, all of the talk from behind the 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.840 scenes was not only that he was not going to negotiate, 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.160 he didn't care about the markets. And then he comes 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.360 out and he just says it. He actually undermines all 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.880 of his big defenders. Yeah, that are in the media. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:40.440 So before we get to the bond market thing, you 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:41.720 have anything you want to say, Well. 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.000 Yeah, a couple of just pieces of reporting to add 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.760 to the context. There are apparently two big things. So 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.160 first of all, I don't know if you guys saw 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.720 this floating around, this interview that Jamie Diamond did with 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.560 Marie Barbiromo reporting, is that Trump watched that where he 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.160 said I think that we are going to be in 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.640 a recession because of these moves. Many other people had 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.920 already said this, but and it was like increasingly glaringly obvious. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.280 And by the way, odds are still pretty decent that 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:09.920 we're going to end up in a recession. But we'll 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.040 put that aside and talk to Joe Wisenthal a little 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.440 bit more about that. But apparently that, for whatever reason, 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.240 had an impact on him. And then the real thing 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:22.760 was the bond markets and the Typically when you have 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.040 the stock market fall, you have a lot of people 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.120 fleeing and buying up treasury bonds because it's a flight 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.960 to safety, that's what they call it. The very opposite 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.640 thing was happening here. That freaked everybody out because it's 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.280 an indication that, first of all, things are so bad, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.840 everyone's just having to liquidate everything to make margin calls 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.920 or keep their head above water. It's what an indication 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.800 of that. It's also an indication guess what, guys, maybe 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.280 the US isn't going to be the safe harbor anymore. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.839 So when you have those factors, and then also think 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.800 about Trump as a real estate guy who is known 0:08:55.880 --> 0:09:00.120 to use astronomical levels of debt, Well, guess what, but 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.560 your bank loans, the interest rate that you get on 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.920 that is going to be related to the treasury rate. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:11.120 So he had a very long time, deep understanding of 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.320 how bad this would be for you know, real estate 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.120 developers or other businesses that want to borrow money from 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.000 the bank. Not to mention one of the eight d 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.240 chess theories of what was going on here is they're 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.559 crashing the economy in order to get the interest rates down. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.680 The exact opposite thing is happening. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:28.120 So if you're going to. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.880 Have to roll this debt that the US has, there's 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.400 this big debt wall coming up, you're going to be 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.960 paying an even higher price because of these moves that 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.320 you're making. So in the end, he did join the 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.760 Panicans and was like, holy shit, this could be worse. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.520 And one of the things that was reported, I can't 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.160 remember which outlet reported this, but he was like, you know, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.079 I'm okay with a recession, but I was getting worried 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.920 that we might be in an actual depression, and so 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.360 he walks back from the edge. Now, to be clear, 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.600 there's still a very hefty terror. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:57.160 Regime in place. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.559 I mean, China's our number one trading partner, know, so 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.079 many of our consumer goods come from China. There is 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.880 an insanely high tariff one hundred and twenty five or 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.439 whatever the hell it is, forty percent one hundred and 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.520 forty percent on goods coming in from China. That alone 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.000 is insanely impactful. Then you still have ten percent tariffs 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.640 across the board. You know, if this is what he 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.480 had originally announced going out to the Rose Garden in 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.559 that speech, there would have been a massive market reaction 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.600 because it's actually worse than what was expected going into 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.480 that speech. But there's a relief because number one, just 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.040 you know, it's not as bad as it was. And 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.760 number two, because it showed that Trump could be moved 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.520 and wasn't just a total madman going for the next 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:44.199 great depress. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:44.720 Yes, that's right. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.120 That's an important point, and it actually gets to kind 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.520 of a market veto. Let's get into this for the 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.120 bond market before we bring in. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:53.000 Joe Wisenthal. 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.400 Charles Gasprino over at Fox News really broke down the 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.560 scare in the bond market and why it ultimately forced 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:00.480 the White House is hand. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:01.400 Let's take a listen. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.280 I want to tell you right now that Donald Trump 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.640 out smarted the world. Trust me, I'm an American. I 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.040 support my president, but that's not really what happened here 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.360 from what I understand, and I know I'll get pushed back, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.080 but here's what it is. First, off, we should point 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:17.720 out that one of the good things about this is 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.760 that Scott besson is finally in the White House. He's 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.520 finally leading this. I mean, up until a couple of 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.600 days ago, it was Lutnik, it was Peter Navarro, the 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.800 Commerce Secretary, the Trade Advisor, very much hawks now with 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.120 Scott Bessont, who believes in cutting deals as opposed to 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.160 not just putting these tariffs out there. And let's be 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.520 amercantilistic economy. 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:39.640 That's number one. 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.920 But number two, let's recall what happened overnight and from 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.080 what I understand, and I'm getting this from people that 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.200 are talking to the White House, what happened in the 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.480 bond market overnight, the spike in yields on the thirty 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.000 year and the ten year bond, which showed that people 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.880 were dumping our bonds. And who are those people dumping 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:03.000 our bonds? Japan, the biggest holder of bonds, was selling bonds. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.320 That's what I'm getting from some very big money managers. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.440 China maybe to some extent, but it was largely Japan 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.880 and others. If you have a mass sale of bonds, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.480 that means people are losing confidence in the US economy. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.560 On the ability to do deals with us, and from 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.360 what I understand, this is what forced the hand of 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.439 this ninety day reprieve. Now is it a good thing? 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.800 You know, are people coming to the table. Yeah, But 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.080 if you know, if you read between the lines or not, 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.959 even what Scott Besson said, we have no deals, right, 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.959 there's nobody that is really there saying this is what 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.600 we're going to do. And they paused it anyway. So 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.960 my thing that said, well, I'll give you this, there 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.760 is some art of the deal here. And by the way, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.720 brilliant move by putting China in the corner. But that's 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.160 a whole separate thing because remember that's a very difficult negotiation. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.360 Everybody else is a lot easier. They really want to 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.640 they do want to deal with us, whether they want 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.199 to be, you know, forced into really bad trade deals 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.640 on their end as a whole other negotiating story. But 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.000 make no mistake about it, you cannot divorce this decision 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.360 right here from what happened last night, which was you know, 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.640 I people focus on the stock market all the time. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.480 It's the bond market and the sort of lending markets 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.679 that's the plumbing of the economy, and those markets were 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.920 imploding last night, and that's why we have a ninety 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.760 day freeze. Let's see if those markets improve. If someone 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.400 told me we had a decent treasury auction today, but 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.880 if you can't sell your treasures, guys, and people are 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.240 unloading your treasures, like Japan, which is I believe the 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.839 largest foreign holder after China. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.560 So as you guys can see there from Charles Gasprino's reporting, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.080 the bond market is really what forced Donald Trump's hand. 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.720 Spooks to the United States Treasure sector who coming into this 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.839 had said one of the stated goals was to make 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.760 sure that the yield on these bonds was going to 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.319 go lower. That would have, of course, increase in the 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.120 yield would have made mortgages more expensive, it would have 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.760 made the debt servicing more expense. And it's one of 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.480 those where the massive size of that and the overall 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:08.280 financial impact was a major recessionary indicator. So very very 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.800 clear what went on here, h Donald Trump. This is 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.640 not ourt of the deal. This was straight up he 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.680 got panicked because of the bod market. And now we'll see, 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.760 well he admits it himself, yeah he so, I mean, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:18.440 I'm not saying it. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.200 And it was funny because Gasper that was on Fox 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.240 Fox News or Fox Business was Fox News? Yeah, Fox News, 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:24.600 and you know it's in the midst of all this 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.960 like North Korea style propaganda about oh art of the 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.600 deal and this was the planel along whenever He's like, well, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.400 not really based on reporting and now based on the 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.720 president z own words. So let's go and get to 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.560 Joe Wisenthal Bloomberg to break all of us down and 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.720 where we are and what might happen next. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.280 Very excited now to be joined by Joe Wisenthal of 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.440 the Odd Lots podcast over at Bloomberg. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:48.160 He's an all star. 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.880 Him and his co host Tracy are incredible and we 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.560 highly recommend you all listen to them. Joe has been 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.400 making their rounds everywhere explaining to the people about what 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.000 the hell is going on, and we decided that we 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.440 had to have him on here to tell us specifically 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.480 about this whole bond market thing, which we're doing our 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.640 best to break down. Joe, let's take a listen to 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.240 what Donald Trump had to say about the bond market. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.000 Get your reaction and also in explanations. So let's take 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:13.120 a listenin the. 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.120 Phone markets that persuaded you to reverse. 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.720 I was watching the bond market. That bond market is 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.120 very tricky. I was watching it. But if you look at. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.880 It now, it's beautiful. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.120 The bond market right now is beautiful. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.640 But yeah, I saw last night where people were getting 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:35.680 a little queasy. I think everything had well. The big 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.000 move wasn't what I did today. The big move was 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.200 what I did on Liberation Day. We had Liberation Day 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.640 in America. Were liberated from all of the horrible deals that. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.480 Were made, all of the horrible trade deals that were made. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.280 And I was helped by people just like this senator, 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.040 congressman and friends, right, and we had great help in 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.720 the Senate. Of course, Republican senators have been amazing. They 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.320 still a doll and likewise in the House. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.920 So Joe Trump all but meeting there that the bond 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:07.680 markets are really what forced his hand. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.160 Can you explain specifically. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.320 About why that was so impactful for his decision making. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.720 Yeah, there's a lot of like I would say, sort 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.200 of exoticization of the bond market, particularly in media, and 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.640 people like to have these panises China's jumping bonds you response, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.720 or Japan dumping bonds and response. It's not that complicated 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.120 really what was going on Tuesday night was extreme panic. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.720 And in a state of extreme panic, what do you 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.080 do you think about. I got to pay my mortgage 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.400 at the end of the month, I got to pay 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.239 my cell phone bill, I have to pay my Bloomberg subscription, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.040 and all of that stuff is denominated in dollars. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.080 Do you sell anything that's not dollars. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.720 You start selling stocks, you start selling gold, you start 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.560 selling bonds, even which are you know, essentially the safest 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.560 asset in the world, because you want are just those 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.560 liquid dollars to pay your bills. It doesn't help that 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.440 one of the stated goals of this administration outside and 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.040 everything else, was to lower yields, and so this was 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.480 the exact opposite going on. And I think if there's 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.359 probably one market that really resonates with Trump more than 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.239 the stock market, it's the bottom market. Because when your 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.439 real estate your whole, you know, you sort of like 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:15.800 live and die on your cost, to borrow at your 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.960 cost and capital, it became an untenable situation when you 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.639 saw those dynamic Maybe you can tolerate a hits of 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.960 the stock market, and which I'm actually kind of skeptical 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.119 that the people have the public would have put up 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.640 with very much longer, but it truly becomes untenable when 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.480 people start having to dump what is perceived as like 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.439 the second safest asset in the world. Where the safest 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.840 asset in the world, which is just over nine dollars. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.040 Got it, guys, can you put a six up on 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.439 the screen. I thought this was interesting chart showing that 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:50.480 now the midst of tariffs is now actually more tilted 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.960 towards consumer goods, which is just an overall reminder that 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.840 everyone's sort of acting like, okay, well that's over, but 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.680 there's still actually a very steep and almost unprecedented level 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.879 of tariffs that are hitting countries around the world, and 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.280 obviously the massive tariff on China in. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.040 And of itself is a huge deal. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.000 So can you help people understand what the reality is 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.840 now and what sort of potential impact it can have 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.960 on the real economy, and you know, your assessment of 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.320 what the markets have done and where they might be added. 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.240 Yeah, look, I'm surprised that we had this huge stock 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.960 market rally yesterday after he pulled back from the brink 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.119 a little bit, because, as I mentioned again Tuesday night, panic, Look, 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.639 the reality is if you just go from now versus 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.440 sort of like pre Rose Garden speech, and you don't 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.600 pay attention to anything that happened. In the meantime, you 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.800 have stock futures that are significantly lower. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.960 So we've made a hit to the valuation of corporate America. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:52.560 Rates are higher. 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.119 Than they were, and the US economy or you know, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:19:00.240