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Speaker 1: Welcome to had a Money. I'm Joel and I am Max,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking about catching up to financial independence

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Speaker 1: with Jackie Cummings Cosky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody likes to be late to the party, Joel,

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Speaker 2: I don't you Probably You probably don't mind. You like

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Speaker 2: to be fashion ate anyway. But it gets a bummer

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Speaker 2: to be out of the loop because once you finally

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Speaker 2: do learn about something important like investing for your future,

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Speaker 2: you were then in the disadvantaged position of having to

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Speaker 2: make up for lost time. And I think that's how

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks feel when they first learn about

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Speaker 2: fire financial independence retire early. They're like, sure, if only

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Speaker 2: I had heard about this when I was in my early twenties, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I would have been able to pull that off. But

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Speaker 2: we're here to tell you that is not too late.

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Speaker 2: And our guest, Jackie Cummings Costki is living proof that

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Speaker 2: you didn't have to start investing like back in the

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Speaker 2: nineties in order to retire early, and having only woken

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Speaker 2: up to handling her finances responsibly at the age of

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Speaker 2: thirty eight, it only took her like around a decade

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Speaker 2: to call it quits, proving that you can achieve financial

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Speaker 2: freedom even as a late comer. Jackie is a CFP.

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Speaker 2: She's the author of the recently published Fire for Dummies,

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Speaker 2: as well as Money Letters to My Daughter, which she

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Speaker 2: wrote a minute ago. As well, she's co host of

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Speaker 2: the podcast Catching Up to Fi and Jackie. We're really

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Speaker 2: excited for you to share your story how you approached

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Speaker 2: financial independence. Thank you for talking to us today.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, I am so glad to be joining you.

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Speaker 3: To you guys from Atlanta. That's my neck of the woods,

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Speaker 3: that's where I grew up in Georgia and South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you are a Southeastern gal, just like we're Southeastern dude.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so glad to have you along. Jackie. You've

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Speaker 1: got such an interesting story, so much, so much great

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Speaker 1: information to share. First question we got to ask at

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Speaker 1: you when we ask everyone who comes on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: is what do you like to splurge on? Especially super

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Speaker 1: frugal folks. It can be hard to let loose to

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Speaker 1: purse strings, to spend on something that you care about,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're trying to go hard after something like

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Speaker 1: fire in a short period of time. But what is

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Speaker 1: that for you? What is the thing you're willing to

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Speaker 1: spend money on? Even while you're doing the smart stuff

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Speaker 1: with your money.

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Speaker 3: Oh guys, that's so true. I think for me, I

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Speaker 3: really like splurging on just having time with my daughter.

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Speaker 3: So no matter what, we get together once a week

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Speaker 3: and we go hang out at a restaurant. Sometimes that

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Speaker 3: restaurant is a nice, fancy one, or other times it's

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Speaker 3: just going to get beer and wings at like a

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Speaker 3: craft beer place or something like that. But that's why

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Speaker 3: I love to spend my time. And I think of

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Speaker 3: it Jackie, I know, and it's my daughter that's a

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Speaker 3: craft beer fan. I'm not necessarily like to me the

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Speaker 3: most beer that I drink, there's a cool beer that

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Speaker 3: it's a pint. You guys probably think that this is uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, soft soft stuff, but it's a pine apple

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Speaker 3: beer by aces, and I don't know if you would

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Speaker 3: even consider that craft beer. But my daughter's a craft

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Speaker 3: beer fan, not me. But sometimes we go there because

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Speaker 3: that's what she likes and we'll get wings. But so

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Speaker 3: it doesn't I don't put a price tag or a

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Speaker 3: limit on how much we're going to spend. We choose

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Speaker 3: the restaurant, just choosing something local, something fun. If we

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Speaker 3: want to dress up a little bit, maybe a something fancy,

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Speaker 3: So I splurge a little bit when it comes to that.

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Speaker 2: I love it. So you said weekly, So is this

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Speaker 2: like a standing date that y'all have? Is this like

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Speaker 2: a repeating event on your calendar?

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Speaker 3: It is? Sometimes we have to switch it around because

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Speaker 3: she's a busy little thing. And by the way, she

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Speaker 3: is over twenty one, so she's allowed to drink. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the reason I ask is because I've always wondered

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Speaker 2: because like Joel and I we kind of have alternating

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Speaker 2: date nights with our wives where the other comes over

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Speaker 2: to the house to kind of keep an eye on

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Speaker 2: the kids. And sometimes folks push back on that, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's just sort of like a repeating event, it's not

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Speaker 2: like special. And what I say is that the ability

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Speaker 2: for us to do it consistently, Like sometimes you don't

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Speaker 2: always feel like it, like sometimes you're not in the

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Speaker 2: mood and maybe you had a spat night before a

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Speaker 2: couple of nights before or something like that. But the

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Speaker 2: ability to sit down it kind of like forces you

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Speaker 2: to come to terms to sort of rekindle what it

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Speaker 2: is that you like about each other. Yeah, have you

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Speaker 2: found that sure?

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Speaker 1: By the way, the opposite, The opposite that I hear

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Speaker 1: from most people is I don't remember the last time

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Speaker 1: we went on a date.

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Speaker 2: The yeah, yes, that's the other extreme.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean I think that's really important just

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Speaker 3: to get away from the house, both of our respective houses, right,

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Speaker 3: and to have that undivided time to just talk and

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Speaker 3: just kind of hang out. And also, I just I'm

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Speaker 3: pretty we live pretty close to each other now, and

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Speaker 3: I don't want to take that for granted because I

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Speaker 3: know we're not always gonna live in the same city.

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Speaker 3: So I just want to take advantage of the time

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Speaker 3: that we have together. I do think a lot about,

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Speaker 3: you know, the fact that you know, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to live forever, so you know, what things am I

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Speaker 3: doing to make sure that I have the relationship that

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Speaker 3: I want with my daughter? And I just I enjoy

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Speaker 3: that dedicated time. So yeah, it is sort of like

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Speaker 3: a standing date. And sometimes we might get really bad

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Speaker 3: and you know, a week has gone by and we're like,

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Speaker 3: you know what, we didn't get together this week, And

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Speaker 3: so we always try to do it consistently, and it's

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Speaker 3: probably the bright spot of both of our weeks, just

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Speaker 3: because we just get away from work, and everything else

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Speaker 3: that we're doing, and we go we hang out and

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Speaker 3: we don't even have the place playing half the time.

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Speaker 3: You know, we'll just figure it out when we're on

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Speaker 3: the way there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's less about that. It's just more about y'all

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Speaker 2: getting together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. All Right, So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about your daughter, but let's not go let's go a

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Speaker 1: little bit further back. Let's go back to your childhood, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: You had five siblings, you lived in a single parent household.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious how did those early years affect your relationship

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Speaker 1: with money, What was going on in the house, and

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Speaker 1: how did like maybe your money script get formed early on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it had a huge impact on the

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Speaker 3: way that I think about money. So, like you said,

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Speaker 3: I grew up, I was raised by a single day

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Speaker 3: was six kids, So grew up in a small house.

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Speaker 3: It was just like a small two bedroom ranch home.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how you squeeze that many people

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Speaker 3: in there, but he worked his butt off. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know how my dad even did it, but he did.

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Speaker 3: Like we always had the basics, but nothing more than that.

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Speaker 3: Like money was always like an obstacle because for instance,

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Speaker 3: you know, I never went to summer camp. Why because

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Speaker 3: we don't have the money to do that. I never,

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Speaker 3: you know, really got new clothes for back to school.

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Speaker 3: Why because we didn't have the money. So money was

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Speaker 3: always the broblem. But I did pick up some really

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Speaker 3: good habits, so to me, in order to have good

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Speaker 3: money habits, you don't have to be rich, you know.

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Speaker 3: So my dad, he had an incredible work ethic, so

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Speaker 3: I took that with me. And the other thing that

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Speaker 3: really stuck in my head from my childhood was that

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to grow up in poverty because it

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Speaker 3: was so many things that we couldn't have like everyone else,

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Speaker 3: and it didn't feel good, especially as a kid. And

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Speaker 3: so many things that I learned from him, well, really

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Speaker 3: everything that stuck with me, I had to learn it

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Speaker 3: in my younger formidable years because he passed away right

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Speaker 3: before I graduated from high school, about three months before

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Speaker 3: I graduate from high school. So I'm kind of amazed

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Speaker 3: that I still have all of the memories that I

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Speaker 3: have and just all of these, like I guess, characteristics

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Speaker 3: that I inherited from him and learned from him just

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Speaker 3: in those few short years so it had an impact.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember, you know, going through life, you know,

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Speaker 3: my decision to go to college, that had a lot

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Speaker 3: to do with the fact that, well, I didn't want

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Speaker 3: to be in poverty. I just want a good job.

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Speaker 3: And just throughout that just kept creeping in my head

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Speaker 3: that I did not want to be in poverty. Again,

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Speaker 3: I get.

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Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I get how that would form, it would

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Speaker 1: form that kind of vein inside of you. But I

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Speaker 1: also love that you have such great memories of your dad.

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Speaker 1: Even like we want people to get their money together,

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Speaker 1: we want people to have a good relationship with money

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Speaker 1: and not feel like they're deprived. But it's also I

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Speaker 1: think important to note and I think what your history

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Speaker 1: your childhood proves is money's also not the end all

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Speaker 1: be all, and that you can have, you know, a

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Speaker 1: great relationship with your parents, great relationship with your siblings.

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Speaker 1: You can have a lovely, loving household without tons of

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Speaker 1: excess money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a prerequisite in order to have a

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Speaker 2: loving relationship, which it sounds like, I mean that's something

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Speaker 2: that you've prioritized even now with your daughter. But it

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Speaker 2: sounds like, yeah, like Joel said, you've got fond memories

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Speaker 2: of your dad. Okay, so let's let's fast forward just

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Speaker 2: a little bit here, though, Jackie, can you tell us

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Speaker 2: about how you handled money in let's say early adulthood.

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Speaker 2: You write about you talk about the divorce that you

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Speaker 2: went through, and it seemed like it was like a

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Speaker 2: pretty dramatic wake up call for you.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that was a huge wake up call for me.

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Speaker 3: So I was married for about twelve years and at

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Speaker 3: that point, my daughter was about nine years old when

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Speaker 3: I got divorced. So, you know, here I am, you know,

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Speaker 3: thinking I'm on a shared journey, and after the divorce,

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Speaker 3: now it's just me and my daughter and I have

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we are going to be okay.

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Speaker 3: And it scared me a lot. But one of the

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Speaker 3: things that stuck with me at the time of the

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Speaker 3: divorce basically what they do is they any money or

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Speaker 3: assets that you have is pretty much put in the

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Speaker 3: pot and split down the middle. So in our case,

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Speaker 3: we hardly had you any money. You know, we're in

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Speaker 3: our early thirties, and we looked at their retirement accounts,

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Speaker 3: so that was about the only assets we really had.

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Speaker 3: You know, the house was probably upside down, cars had loans,

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Speaker 3: on them and all of that. So I had twenty

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars in my retirement account, my four o one K,

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Speaker 3: and at the time I thought that was pretty good.

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Speaker 3: I really had nothing to measure it with, honestly, And

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Speaker 3: then my husband had one hundred and twenty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: in his four oh one K, so they're yeah, huge.

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Speaker 3: There was a huge one hundred thousand dollars disparity. And

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Speaker 3: of course I asked myself a million times, how did

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Speaker 3: that happen? Because our salaries were very similar. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: like I was a teacher and he was a doctor.

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Speaker 3: Our salaries was very similar, and we were getting a

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Speaker 3: similar match. And really, when I started digging into it,

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Speaker 3: because it just bugged me so much, right, and I

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Speaker 3: wanted to figure out, okay, what happened here because I

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Speaker 3: never want to feel this financially ignorant again. And it

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Speaker 3: was a series of a lot of little things, but

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Speaker 3: one of the biggest was what we were invested in.

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Speaker 3: So this would have been two thousand and three, something

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Speaker 3: like that, two thousand and four, so he had his

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Speaker 3: he worked for a very large bank at the time,

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Speaker 3: and in two thousand and two, two thousand and three

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Speaker 3: two thousand and four, bank stocks were like one of

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Speaker 3: the best performing asset classes, right and or one of

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Speaker 3: the best performing industries. This was before two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 3: so they were doing awesome. And so he had his

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Speaker 3: company stock inside of his four oh win k and

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Speaker 3: he had some other investments and mine was probably a

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Speaker 3: lot more conservative. Well, if you take twelve years, the

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Speaker 3: gap just grows, and that was merely what was the difference.

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Speaker 3: But I just never wanted to feel that way again.

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Speaker 3: And that was the thing that got me to saying, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I want to start to learn this stuff. And you know,

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Speaker 3: when I got divorced, you know, I had to ask

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Speaker 3: that hard question, Okay, what is it that I like

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Speaker 3: to do? What am I interested in? And one of

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Speaker 3: those things was I was so interested in the stock

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Speaker 3: market because I was afraid of it. I knew that

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Speaker 3: was a part of the huge disparity that existed in

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Speaker 3: me and my ex husband's retirement accounts, and I just

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Speaker 3: wanted to learn that. And so that's when I that

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Speaker 3: sort of started me digging in the curiosity to figuring

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Speaker 3: out my finances because I wanted to get better and

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Speaker 3: never feel the way that I felt when I discovered

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Speaker 3: this big disparity between me and my husband's retirement account.

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I thought it was going to

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Speaker 1: be a difference in the percentage of your paycheck that

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Speaker 1: you were dedicating to investing in the four Wall.

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Speaker 3: Game, but no, it was that was very supporting.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at some of the data, that's

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Speaker 1: actually one of the issues that women face is that

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Speaker 1: they invest too conservatively, and that is that is just

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Speaker 1: something that happens along the gender divide sadly, and I

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Speaker 1: think what you do is you partly because of what

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Speaker 1: you've gone through within are also partly because of the

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Speaker 1: education that you have that you have pursued. You now

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Speaker 1: I think are advocating a different approach. I'm curious too,

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Speaker 1: what would you say to young women listening, because divorce

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Speaker 1: is so commonplace these days. How you know they're not

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Speaker 1: like hopefully thinking that's the likelihood, or or you know,

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Speaker 1: protecting themselves in such a way where that it could

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Speaker 1: impact their relationship. But how would you tell people, young

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Speaker 1: women listening in particular, how to handle their finances if

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Speaker 1: they are married, and even if they're in a happy marriage,

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Speaker 1: just to make sure that they're protecting themselves properly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think is important in marriage period. So one

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Speaker 3: of the things that we didn't do is that we

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Speaker 3: didn't discuss our four oh one k. And to be honest,

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Speaker 3: being that young, I was like in my twenties, guys,

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Speaker 3: I was so young, I did to even see the

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Speaker 3: four to one k money as my money because it

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Speaker 3: was for retirement, right, it was like thirty or forty

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Speaker 3: years away. So we never did sit down and look

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Speaker 3: at it as a whole. So that would have been

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Speaker 3: the big thing. And then you mentioned sort of that

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Speaker 3: gender gap there when it comes to you know, pay

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Speaker 3: and the way that we invest and things like that.

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Speaker 3: That was a portion of it. Because my husband started

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Speaker 3: to increase. His salary started to increase at a greater

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Speaker 3: rate than mine, which means that the percentage of savings

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Speaker 3: was more. Right, so even if we were both doing

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Speaker 3: ten percent, well, if he's starting to make more than

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Speaker 3: his ten percent is more than my ten percent. So

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Speaker 3: we saw that, and you know, I took time off

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Speaker 3: for you know, maternity leave. I mean back then it

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Speaker 3: was only six weeks, but you know, still, you know,

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Speaker 3: you factor things like that in and that could start

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Speaker 3: to make the difference. But I think definitely. And I

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Speaker 3: know that it's easy in a relationship, whether you're married

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Speaker 3: or not, to assign roles, like you have someone that's

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Speaker 3: in charge of the money and someone that's not. And

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Speaker 3: so even if that's the case, just like for instance,

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Speaker 3: you know my husband, he was the one that mowed

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Speaker 3: the lawn. I never touched the lawn. I never had

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Speaker 3: to do any type of landscaping or anything. He did

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Speaker 3: all of that. So when it comes to the money part,

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Speaker 3: that's just an important piece where you do you know,

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Speaker 3: as we were talking about, you know, having a standing date,

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Speaker 3: you know with your spouse, you know, that's something you

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Speaker 3: just want to talk about or just make sure they're

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Speaker 3: aware of what's there. So relationships that I've been in

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Speaker 3: since then, even though I'm kind of like the money person,

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Speaker 3: it was so important to me to maybe at least

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Speaker 3: once a month or something like that, just to show

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Speaker 3: where everything is at. You know where the money's at,

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Speaker 3: you know, here's you know, the things you want to

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Speaker 3: look out for. I just want them to have some

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Speaker 3: rud tomary knowledge of what's going on with the money.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to be in charge of it, but

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Speaker 3: you should know what's there. And what's going on with it.

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Speaker 3: It should be very open so that because anything could

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Speaker 3: happen at a moment's notice.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're not guaranteed health tomorrow anything. I'm curious too.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned, you know, you're kind of talking about

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Speaker 2: your husband's four one K match as you turn things around.

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Speaker 2: Your company offered a killer four one K with an

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Speaker 2: awesome match. Tell me just was that one of the

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Speaker 2: ways you were able to just drastically. I feel like

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Speaker 2: you just took the you took the pedal and you

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Speaker 2: just like smashed it and you went full boar when

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Speaker 2: it came to writing your own personal finances.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're so right. I did. And you know, once

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Speaker 3: your eyes are open. And this is something I tell

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Speaker 3: a lot of late starters because I was a late starter.

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Speaker 3: I just did my first network statement when I was

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Speaker 3: thirty eight years old. There's people retiring in the fire

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Speaker 3: movement at thirty eight. But that is a huge point

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Speaker 3: that once I started really looking at my finances, there

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Speaker 3: were so many little nuggets of advantages that I may

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Speaker 3: not have even been paying attention to. So the four

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Speaker 3: to one K match, for instance, so I was like

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Speaker 3: early on, I remember the match for my company was

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Speaker 3: only like six percent, so I definitely was doing that.

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Speaker 3: I may have bumped it up to ten percent. But

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Speaker 3: once my eyes open, well, one of the first things

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Speaker 3: that I did, because I was so interested in, like

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Speaker 3: investing in the stock market, I join an investment club.

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Speaker 3: It was with a nonprofit organization called Better Investing, And

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Speaker 3: that might not have been the first place you know

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Speaker 3: you should start when you're trying to learn about your finances,

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Speaker 3: but that's what I was most interested in. But all

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Speaker 3: this stuff comes full circle. It's all intertwined. So as

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Speaker 3: I'm learning about the stock market, I'm learning about compound growth.

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Speaker 3: I'm learning you have to invest in order to build wealth.

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Speaker 3: So I'm thinking I'm starting to backtrack. I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: why am I not maxing out my four O one K?

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Speaker 3: Why am I not maxing out my WROTH IRA? Why

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Speaker 3: am I not maxing out my HSA my health savings account?

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Speaker 3: And the fact that you can even invest in that.

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Speaker 3: So all of those things started to add up and

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Speaker 3: make more sense to me. And my company started a

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Speaker 3: very very They had a little pension for a while.

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Speaker 3: Well when they sort of froze that pension, or before

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Speaker 3: they froze it. They gave your choice. You could either

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Speaker 3: stay with the pension or you could go with They

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Speaker 3: called it the enhanced for one K, so I'm putting

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Speaker 3: that in quotes, the enhanced for one K, and that

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Speaker 3: was it was super generous. So of course I'm hopping

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Speaker 3: over to the four one K. It didn't mean that

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Speaker 3: that was right for everybody, because people would ask me

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Speaker 3: what should I do? Well, their situation was different, but

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Speaker 3: the enhanced for a one k it was super generous.

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Speaker 3: If you put in seven percent, they would put in

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Speaker 3: nine percent. So yeah, that's huge.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they were trying to woop people away from the pension. Well,

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Speaker 3: some people, you know, they just going to do what

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Speaker 3: they've always done. And it was I think it was

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Speaker 3: like ten years that they allowed people to still make

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Speaker 3: the choice between the pension and the four one K

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Speaker 3: till they finally ended it. And I you know a

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Speaker 3: lot of people was like, yeah, I don't understand why

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Speaker 3: they're doing it. I said, Well, to be honest, most companies,

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Speaker 3: when they freeze the pension, it's done and you can't

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Speaker 3: do anything and it goes away, and they will tell

378
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Speaker 3: you can do them for one K if you want to,

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Speaker 3: but normally you don't even get a choice. So the

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Speaker 3: fact that they let this linger on for ten years,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's pretty generous. But yes, that was a

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Speaker 3: big part of it. And then another part of it

383
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Speaker 3: was just the timing because I started most of my

384
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Speaker 3: heavy investing right around two thousand and eight, and that

385
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Speaker 3: turned out to be a really, really good time to start.

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Speaker 2: So time Revian.

387
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had this no genius or anything,

388
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Speaker 3: but I had the win at my back when it

389
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Speaker 3: came to timing and the stock market. I mean, who knew.

390
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Speaker 1: Well, let's be honest, so too, Jackie. It's not like

391
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Speaker 1: you were making five hundred K. Some people might hear

392
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Speaker 1: your story and they might say, well, Jackie's max down

393
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Speaker 1: all these retirement accounts. She must have been like just

394
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Speaker 1: super duper high income earner. And a lot of people

395
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Speaker 1: in the fire movement they there's the stereotypical software engineer

396
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Speaker 1: who makes like two hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year,

397
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Speaker 1: and so it's like, well, sure it's easier to save

398
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Speaker 1: fifty percent your income when your income is that ridiculous, right,

399
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Speaker 1: But it talked to me too. I want to hear

400
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Speaker 1: about that and how you were able to go from

401
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe barely hitting the match, having twenty thousand

402
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: dollars in your four O one K to accelerating to

403
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Speaker 1: where you're maxing out all those accounts in short order.

404
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 1: What did that look like? Yeah, maybe maybe just start there.

405
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Speaker 1: Tell me what that was like.

406
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I was a moderate income earner, like

407
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Speaker 3: for instance, my co host Bill on Catching Up to Five,

408
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 3: he's a doctor, so he's making doctor money, right, Well

409
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Speaker 3: I wasn't. I Again, I at this point, I'm a

410
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Speaker 3: single mom, so I'm not looking to climb the corporate

411
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Speaker 3: ladder or to try to eclipse one hundred thousand dollars

412
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Speaker 3: like that just was not my goal. Okay. I wanted

413
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Speaker 3: to try to, you know, be a great mom. I

414
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Speaker 3: wanted to spend time with my daughter. So my average

415
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Speaker 3: salary and I was in sale. So my annual salary,

416
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Speaker 3: part of it was commissioned and it would fluctuate from

417
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Speaker 3: year to year. What I did to kind of figure out, okay,

418
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Speaker 3: what was our earning on average? So I went to

419
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Speaker 3: my Social Security statement and I looked at my earnings

420
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Speaker 3: for the last ten years before I retired. I retired

421
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Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen. So I took the last ten years

422
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 3: and I divided and I got the average of that,

423
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Speaker 3: and that was eighty thousand dollars. Now, some years was

424
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Speaker 3: a little bit more, some years was a little bit less.

425
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Speaker 3: But I never made over six figures. So depending on

426
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Speaker 3: where you live. I live in Ohio, I would consider

427
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,719
Speaker 3: that a low to middle cost of living area. So

428
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Speaker 3: things like the Big Three are fairly cheap. You know,

429
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 3: housing is pretty cheap. You know, transportation and food, so

430
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Speaker 3: those things were, you know, reasonable. I wasn't living in

431
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Speaker 3: you know, San Diego or New York City or anything

432
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Speaker 3: like that, so that had a lot to do with it.

433
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 3: And I guess for me, I'm budgeting is not my strength. Okay,

434
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 3: I wasn't the greatest budgeter, I'll admit that. So in

435
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 3: order to figure out my expenses and what it cost

436
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: me to live, I just sort of did a backwards budget.

437
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 3: So I took everything that I was saving, everything that

438
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 3: I was investing, subtracted that, and then I subtracted the

439
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 3: amount of taxes that I was paying, and whatever was

440
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 3: left that's what I was living living off of. So

441
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 3: I never really had to do the line item by

442
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 3: line item and trying to cut, cut, cut. I wouldn't

443
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: consider myself rugal. I'm not minimalists or anything like that.

444
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 3: So I'm still living my comfortable lifestyle. I never went

445
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 3: through and had to cut like that. Now, some of

446
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 3: that may have to do with the fact that I

447
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: grew up in poverty and I just learned to always

448
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: be efficient with my money and be very conscientious about

449
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 3: where my money's going. And I didn't want to spend

450
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 3: a penny more on anything that I didn't have to.

451
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 3: For instance, for my internet, Well, I don't want to

452
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 3: pay even twenty dollars more than what everybody else is paying.

453
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 3: So I'm going to do that smartly, and everything else

454
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 3: that I'm doing, I'm gonna look at it with a

455
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: critical eye and make sure that I'm either getting the

456
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: best deal or I'm going to buy it the smartest

457
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 3: way possible.

458
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because you say that you weren't a

459
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: frugal person, but it sounds like you are, like maybe

460
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 2: compared to other folks you knew, or maybe how it

461
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: was that you grew up Like you don't see yourself

462
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: as frugal, but like what I see as the definition

463
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: of frugal is just being incredibly conscientious and thoughtful and

464
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: intentional when it comes to how it is that you're

465
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: spending your money, Cause it's I mean, it's remarkable that

466
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: you were able to have this comfortable lifestyle. You weren't

467
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: making more than one hundred thousand dollars. Talk to me,

468
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: I guess about that. Like you said, you worked in sales,

469
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: like that typically means a pretty variable income. You said,

470
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: on average, you're looking at EIGHTYK in that last decade.

471
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 2: How were you able to handle the swings? Was it

472
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: by adjusting your spending? Was it by being a little

473
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: more strategic in your day to day spending?

474
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: Well? When I did the math, I was living off

475
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 3: of living comfortably off of about forty to forty five

476
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars a year, so that you know, I never

477
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 3: always made excuse me. I always made enough to cover

478
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: what my expenses were. And the sales role that I

479
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 3: was in about sixty percent of it was my base salary,

480
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 3: So I had a really high base salary. I worked

481
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 3: out our headquarters in Ohio, so I you know, it

482
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: wasn't the one hundred percent commission like maybe real estate

483
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: or something where you know, some years you might make

484
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: almost zero dollars or make nothing, so I didn't have

485
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: the really big swing, so I didn't feel it that much.

486
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: But I always knew that I could cover all of

487
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: my expenses just on my base salary. So there was

488
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: some years where if I had extra where I could

489
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: save a little bit more, I may have splurged the extra,

490
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: or I may have like you know, just funneled it

491
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: into a brokerage account, or I was part of that

492
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: investment club, you know, so I was putting money in there.

493
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: So I never saw the big swings, and that could

494
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: be an issue for people that have the variable in

495
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 3: But I can also say that, you know, the eighty

496
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars you know, to some people that may sound

497
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: like a lot of money. It just appens, right, It's

498
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: in the eye of the beholder, and it depends on

499
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 3: where you're at. So everyone's a little bit different. And

500
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 3: you know, some people they work, you know, near minimum

501
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 3: wage their whole life, or they work in a career

502
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: field where the salary is not that good, for instance,

503
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: a teacher or a social worker. So you know, the

504
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: average household income in America is right around sixty something

505
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: thousand dollars, correct me. You know, you might have the

506
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 3: fact check me on that, but the last thing I

507
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 3: saw was around six so I was making above the

508
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 3: average household income in America. So by most standards, that's

509
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 3: a pretty good salary. And I guess the main thing

510
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: for me is that I never felt like there were

511
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 3: things I couldn't do. There was things that I thought

512
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: wasn't worth my money or whatever. But I never felt like, oh,

513
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 3: I can't do this because I just I don't make

514
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: enough money and all of that. I felt pretty comfortable.

515
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: And again comparing that to how I grew up, it

516
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: was exceptional.

517
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's great too. I love that you had

518
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: that mindset where like, I can do all these things,

519
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: but they're just not worth sacrificing what it's going to

520
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: take and not allowing my money to grow. For me,

521
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: you allowed yourself to do the things that you wanted

522
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: to do. You didn't deprive yourself, and that is I

523
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: think one of the common pitfalls found in people that

524
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: go into hyper frugal route and one of the yeah yeah, right,

525
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: and one of the things that people find them. I

526
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: think that's part sometimes of what's associated with the Fire movement.

527
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: You wrote the book called Fire for Dummy. So we

528
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: want to talk more about you getting into the Fire

529
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: movement and how that impacted your financial trajectory and how

530
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: that impacted your views on money.

531
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: We'll get to more questions on that right after this.

532
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: Right we are back from the break with Jackie Cummings,

533
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 2: cost Key, and Joel. Like you alluded to right there

534
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: before the break, it's time for us to kind of

535
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 2: dive into the Fire movement though financial independence retire early. Jackie,

536
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: you you wrote the book on it at this point,

537
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: and like literally yeah, like I'm looking at it right here.

538
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,959
Speaker 2: It says fire for dummies right here next week.

539
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: We've all seen the for dummies books and to think that,

540
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: like Jackie's name is on one of the for dummies

541
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: book like that, I don't know.

542
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

543
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: It says a lot about you, Jackie.

544
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: But you kind of identified how it is that you

545
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: were able to start doing the right things before you

546
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: found fire, right Like you kind of saw the error

547
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: of your way. So divorce kind of probed and caused

548
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: you to sort of reevaluate a lot of that. You

549
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: kind of righted the ship. But then it seems like

550
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: you found the Fire movement, and it also seemed like

551
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: it just resonated with you pretty deeply. Why, Like, why

552
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: do you think that was? What was it about the

553
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: fire movement that caused you to be like, wait a minute,

554
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: these are my people, this is what I want to do.

555
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it almost immediately resonated with me. And the main

556
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: reason was that, you know, and there's traditional personal finance

557
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: and financial professionals when they talk about retirement and investing,

558
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: it just always sounded so complicated, and you know, maybe

559
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: that was to their benefit because if you think it's

560
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 3: too complicated, then you feel like you need to use

561
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: a professional. But the fire community was the first time

562
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: that things were making sense to where I could easily

563
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 3: understand it. For instance, how much do you need to retire? Okay,

564
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: you can run a bunch of Monte Carlos simulations and

565
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: all the quiggly lines and all of that, But for

566
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: the fire movement of the fire people, it's just twenty

567
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: five times your expenses. I'm like, oh, I can do math,

568
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: I could do twenty five times twenty five Yeah. I

569
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 3: learned that in middle school, right, so I know that,

570
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: you know, forty thousand dollars a year about what it

571
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 3: costs for me to live and twenty five times that

572
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 3: is a million dollars. I'm like, okay, I got that

573
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 3: number in five minutes. You know, So that made me

574
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: very attractive because they were making it easy. No one

575
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 3: was out there trying to necessarily, you know, sell a

576
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: course or to make a ton of money. People were

577
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: just sharing, Like I found podcasts, so I really I

578
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 3: learned from listening. So I'm an auditory learner and also

579
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: I'm a visual learner. So when podcasts came along, that

580
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: was my preferred way of learning things. And you know,

581
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: to start out, you know, you had I had a

582
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 3: handful of podcasts. You know, back in like you know,

583
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight or whatever, there was barely you know,

584
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: you had you know, Dave Ramsey, Clark KIW with Susie Orman.

585
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: You know, there's a handful more. Well as time goes on, Okay,

586
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: we're in you know, twenty ten, twenty twelve, and there's

587
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: a lot more new podcasts coming out in the personal

588
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 3: finance area, and they start to niche out Right. You

589
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: had the real estate stuff, you had the financial independent stuff,

590
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 3: you had the entrepreneur stuff, and then it started niching

591
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: down even more to financial independence retire early and like, boom,

592
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: that's it. That makes sense. And I was the I

593
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: can tell you guys, I was the biggest skeptic. And

594
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: maybe that's part of my motivation for digging and researching

595
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 3: the way that I do, because I'm about these young guys.

596
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: You know, they're making a lot money, more money than me,

597
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: their double income, no kids, and I'm like, and they're

598
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: in their late twenties or thirties. I'm like, oh god,

599
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 3: it's too late for me. I don't know if I

600
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: could do this, but I started. There were some people

601
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 3: that were very generous with their numbers and they would

602
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: put their numbers out there just online, like Root of

603
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: Good was one of them, and mister fifteen hundred days.

604
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: And that was so helpful to me because what I

605
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: could do. I wasn't just like them, but I could

606
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: make adjustments and I could say, Okay, I'm not making

607
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: quite that much, i don't have a partner, but I'm

608
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: doing this and I'm getting so I had to make

609
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: it make sense for me. But the fact that these

610
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 3: people were sharing their numbers, they were very open about it,

611
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: many of them. That helped me so much to be

612
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: able to outline things for me and to shape it

613
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: up for my life. And it was good to have

614
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: some type of reference point. I didn't have to be

615
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: exactly like them, but I learned from them, and I

616
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: finally said, oh, wow, this is possible. And it was

617
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: kind of scary really because the idea of like cutting

618
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: out from work earlier than we're all told we were supposed.

619
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: To, right.

620
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: I was told, you know, sixty two or so security age,

621
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: and I just never imagine being able to do that.

622
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: Like all these there were so many easy roadblocks or

623
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: easy excuses like, h can't get my money out of

624
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: my retirement account, so I can't retire early. Or I

625
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: can't get insurance if I don't have it through my company,

626
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: so I can't retire early. Oh my daughter's still in

627
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 3: high schools. So all these things, there were answers for

628
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: every single one of them, and it just started to

629
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: take form, and it was very empowering to me to

630
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: see that I could craft all this stuff myself versus,

631
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: you know, the traditional way of relying on employer having

632
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: a pension and you have to be there thirty or

633
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: forty years. So all these knowledge bombs was like going

634
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: off as I'm digging and I just want it more

635
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: and more.

636
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: I love that because there's so many people who see

637
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: the Fire movement outside looking in and they say, oh,

638
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: my life doesn't match up with that person's life. I

639
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: don't have that sort of income. I have this sort

640
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: of disadvantage, you know what. I'm gonna throw that out

641
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: and say that it's only for the one percent or

642
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: something like that. And you said, no, no, there's ways

643
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: I can adapt this to fit my lifestyle. And I

644
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: think that's admirable because you're right, like some people might

645
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: have an easier path to get there, but it doesn't

646
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: mean that it's not achievable for a greater segment of folks.

647
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: As you know, it's not easy. It's not easy to

648
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: get there. It takes a long time, it takes a

649
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: lot of dedication to hard work, continue to invest those

650
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: dollars regularly. But the fact that I think that's why

651
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: I love your voice in this space too, because it

652
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: goes to show there are more people than just the

653
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: stereotype who can achieve it. I'd say this too, Matt

654
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: and I we like not love fire. There are certain

655
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: things about it that like maybe rub us the wrong way.

656
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 1: I'd say, like there's potentially a hardcore adherence that can

657
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: lead to some lifestyle and balance or maybe a disdainful

658
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: view of work. That tends to be the case in

659
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: some parts of the fire movement. So I guess my

660
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: question for you is, is the fire approach is that

661
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: the right approach for everyone?

662
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: Well? I don't think it's for everyone, But I also

663
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 3: think that you cannot define fire in such a broad

664
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: term and assume that just because you know of a

665
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: few that do it a certain way, Like, for instance,

666
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: a lot of times, you know, the headlines in the

667
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: media might might focus on the extreme, and some people's

668
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 3: take away maybe oh, from this headline or this article,

669
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: this person's so frugal, they're all frugal, or this person

670
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: this person is a minimalist and don't want to spend

671
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: money on anything. They're all that way. No. I really

672
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: get put off when people will sort of assume that

673
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: the group is the same as a few limited experiences

674
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: or people that they might have read about or met,

675
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: and it's really kind of dangerous to do so. I

676
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: like open minded people, and the only way I was

677
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: able to make the movement that I did is being

678
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: open minded. So you could say that about any group

679
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: of people. You can say rich people are bad people.

680
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 3: Are there rich people that are bad? Yes, But are

681
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: you going to assume that they're all bad just because

682
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: you had a few that you know of that did

683
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: bad things? You know, all poor people are lazy? Okay,

684
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: are there lazy people that are poor? Yeah, there probably is,

685
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: But does that mean.

686
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: That all poor people are you know, so I realize, yeah.

687
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: When you generalize like that, that just doesn't make any

688
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: sense because you know, you probably were exposed to a

689
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: very limited amount and sure that's going to shape you know,

690
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: how you think about it. But you know, the smart

691
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: person's gonna say, you know, it doesn't mean that they're

692
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: all that way and normally, and I say that, you know,

693
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: the ignorance happens from afar. It's when you're an outsider

694
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: looking in where you're really not digging. But if you

695
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: were to get to know a few more people and

696
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: dig into a little bit more, you see, Wow, I

697
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: met so many different ones like, for instance, you know

698
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: I drive a luxury car. Okay, that's probably anti five

699
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: or in the book I would call it by non

700
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 3: fire confession. But I don't think that I need to

701
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: follow everything that maybe a select few in the community

702
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: are doing, but they're allowed to do do it their

703
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: way and the unique path that they want to take.

704
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 3: Like there's no doctrine that you have to sign, there's

705
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: nothing that you have to do. And I can say that,

706
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 3: like you guys, I get turned off by the frugal

707
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 3: stuff and minimalism. That's just not my thing. But I

708
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 3: was smart enough to know that that doesn't represent the whole,

709
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: you know. And I guess that's why they have those

710
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 3: labels like fat Fire and Barista Fire and all of that,

711
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: just to say it's not all the same. You know,

712
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 3: when you generalize, it's probably not gonna that doesn't really

713
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 3: represent everybody in the movement. I think. In general, though,

714
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: the movement is very diverse, way more diverse than when

715
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: I started in it, and I would venture to say

716
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: it is starting to get into the mainstream. Like most

717
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: people that I know had never even heard a fire

718
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: or even know what it stands for. And I see

719
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 3: it in a lot more places now and the curious

720
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: person that's willing to ask questions and consider would this

721
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: be something I could fit into my lifestyle? How does

722
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: it look if I shaped it for me? Then that

723
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 3: is the attraction, not sort of looking at someone else's

724
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 3: life or generalizing the whole group.

725
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's when it starts to work on

726
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: a on a more individual level. And going back to

727
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: you talking about your luxury car, I'm surprised you didn't

728
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: mention that as.

729
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 3: You're I know, I had a choice, I said, I

730
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: could even talk about my daughter. Can talk about that.

731
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: Of course I'd rather talk about my daughter. But yeah,

732
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 3: if you have a LEXC car, it takes you know,

733
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 3: premium gas. You know, it doesn't have two hundred thousand

734
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: mist a lot of people. And I'll say a lot

735
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: of people. Not everybody beating us up.

736
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: Jacket Rush Jackie, you're not really fire Okay.

737
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 3: And here's the thing, there's always smart ways to do things.

738
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: So when I talk about the luxury car, I know

739
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: people have visions of m Lamborghini's okay, but that's not

740
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. Okay. My preferred vehicle is like Alexis.

741
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: Alexis is basically Toyota. Yeah, that's a great vehicle, low maintenance.

742
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 3: So generally I will buy I don't buy them new,

743
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: but i'll buy them for about half off of what

744
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: they call brand new I would buy it between three

745
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 3: and five years old and keep it for eight to

746
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: ten years. So to me, that's a smart way to

747
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: approach it. But it's not for everybody, and that's okay.

748
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 3: Like I'm not trying to talk everybody into getting the

749
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: luxury car, but I don't want anybody. I don't want

750
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 3: anybody talking me into driving a car that's three hundred

751
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: thousand miles.

752
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: Totally.

753
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: No.

754
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 2: Again, it comes down to how it is that you're

755
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: going to approach your own version of fire. I mean,

756
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 2: and you're you're talking about challenging these assumptions that I

757
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: think one of the assumptions too when it comes to fire,

758
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: is how it is that folks who are seeking after fire,

759
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: how they view work like that act not like just

760
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 2: the job that they're doing, but the work that they're performing.

761
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: Because you specifically, like, just because you were quote unquote retired,

762
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you aren't being useful. I think

763
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: you might be be working harder than ever. But talk

764
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: to us a little bit too. I'm curious to get

765
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: your thoughts on the value that folks are able to

766
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: put out into the world, which happens to be typically

767
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: through a job which also happens to pay you. And

768
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: so I think one of the one of the hurdles

769
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 2: and one of the difficulties of folks accepting fire is

770
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: the assumption that, oh, you no longer are going to

771
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 2: contribute to society, when instead, I think maybe a healthier

772
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: approach could be, Like, maybe what it looks like is

773
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: just transitioning to a job that maybe doesn't pay quite

774
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: as much, but that being said, you find it incredibly fulfilling.

775
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to pay quite as much because maybe

776
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 2: you frontloaded the sacrifice and it can be a job

777
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: of your own creation. Yeah, So I guess I'd love

778
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts on just work and the ability

779
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 2: for even to continue to like stimulate folk mentally, right,

780
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: Like the challenge that work can provide you.

781
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a really big part of it.

782
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: And for me, that's where I learned a lot, and

783
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 3: I'm still learning stuff every day. I'm still making mistakes

784
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 3: every day. But one of the questions I did have

785
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: to ask myself is like, Okay, since I'm getting to

786
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: the point where I'm I think I can retire early,

787
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: what do I want to do for me? That thing

788
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 3: was financial literacy and education it just made such a

789
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: huge difference in my life. Like that was the key

790
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: that I wanted to share with other people, especially people

791
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: that might have grew up like I did. And so

792
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: when I you know, as far as like looking at

793
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: a job, if you do what you love, that is amazing.

794
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: But in order to do the work that you love,

795
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 3: it doesn't require you to do it through a job.

796
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: You can continue doing the work that you love the

797
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: rest of your life. And unfortunately I did have to

798
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: formally retire from my company because it had nothing to

799
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 3: do with what I wanted to do with financial literacy

800
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: and education. And so that's something to really think about.

801
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: It's like what do I want to do And it

802
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be some big, grand gesture. It could

803
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 3: be maybe just some small things that you've always wanted

804
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: to do. Like one of these things for me was

805
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: that right after I retire, I went back to college.

806
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: So while not going back to college, just not looking

807
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: to hustle and get a job. Most people that's the

808
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 3: reason they go to school, right they want to get

809
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 3: a good point of job. Well that wasn't my reason.

810
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: I did horrible and undergrad I went to Augusta State

811
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 3: in Augusta, Georgia, and I almost flunked out because I

812
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: had to work full time the entire time, and usually

813
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: it was like two jobs, like fifty plus hours a

814
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 3: week sometimes plus I was taking a full load. So

815
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: that was so hard and I almost flunked out. I

816
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 3: think in order to graduate you had to have a

817
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: two point five GPA. I had a two point six,

818
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: so I barely got out. So one of the do yeah,

819
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: I did it, and the GPA the DPA is not

820
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: on my diploma. So when I retired, I'm like, you

821
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: know what, I've always want to go back to school.

822
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: I wanted my do over right, So I didn't want

823
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 3: to get an MBA because I looked at some of

824
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: those classes they would put me to sleep. But I

825
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: found an amazing program at Kansas State that was for

826
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 3: financial therapy. So I went back to get my masters

827
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: at Kansas State. And honestly, this was the first time

828
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 3: in my life that I was able to go to

829
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 3: college and not have to work. And that felt really

830
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: really good to me. And I was very interested in

831
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 3: this program, but it was so unique and it just

832
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: hit me like, oh wow, this is amazing. It excited me.

833
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 3: So that was part of what I did. But then

834
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: I just continued doing the work that I love around

835
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 3: financial literacy and financial education. So I say yes a

836
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: lot because most things now are carved around the work

837
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 3: that I enjoyed doing with financial literacy and education. And

838
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: so it's fun. Like even in a given week, if

839
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: I worked fifty hours a week, you know what, I'm

840
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: still jumping for joy. Yeah, I'm loving it and it's

841
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: on my terms. These are things I said yes too,

842
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna be okay whether I get paid or not.

843
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: That was a huge important thing for me because when

844
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 3: I retired, because I did not want to be thrust

845
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 3: ever again back into poverty. So I probably like I

846
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: reached my fire number about two years before I actually

847
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: retired because I needed more of a buffer, the peace

848
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: of mind, and I just wasn't ready.

849
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was curious about that. Yeah, a lot of

850
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: people they reached the twenty five x expenses, They reached

851
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: that number and then they're like boom. They call their

852
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: boss the next day and they're like two weeks notice,

853
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: But you didn't do that. You stuck around for extra years.

854
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: Why did you wait? And some people call in financial

855
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: the Financial Independent circles. They call it the one more

856
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: year syndrome. Was it that or was it just like

857
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: I want extra buffer because I never ever want to

858
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,439
Speaker 1: have to go back and do something like trade time

859
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: for money.

860
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a little bit of both. And the

861
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: main thing was that, you know, I wasn't really even

862
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: comfortable with entrepreneurship, so I wanted to set things up

863
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 3: as if I would not have another penny coming in,

864
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: and my investments were built up enough to where I

865
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: could live off my investments even if the worst happened.

866
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 3: And you know, I retired in December of twenty nineteen,

867
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 3: so the worst did happen, right, COVID hit a few

868
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: months later, and so at the time, you know, we're,

869
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: you know, two or three years past it now, but

870
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 3: at the time that felt gut wrench and they're like,

871
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 3: oh my god, I retired at the exact wrong time.

872
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: But I was okay because I set up my I

873
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: had actually three months worth of living expenses set aside

874
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 3: that was not in the stock market, so I knew

875
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: that I was okay. It felt very unnatural to do

876
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 3: that because I was in accumulation mode, right, I was

877
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: putting money in and the idea of like not having money,

878
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 3: you know, invested somehow didn't feel right to me. But

879
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: I didn't want anything to come between me and my retirement.

880
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, I did have that one more year syndrome

881
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: because I wanted to build a little more of a buffer,

882
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 3: and just mentally, I wasn't there like nothing is happening

883
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: until the psychological part, and you have the mental part, right,

884
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: So that's what I needed to feel, okay.

885
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Sometimes it just takes getting used to the idea.

886
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: Like you said, Jackie, that you're no longer in that

887
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: accumulation phase. I'm actually really curious. You quit your corporate work,

888
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: so you're no longer receiving a salary. You went back

889
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: to school. Did you have to start drawing down on

890
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 2: any of your investments or were you able to have

891
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: enough on hand to kind of bridge you until you

892
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: started earning some money as an entrepreneur after you hung

893
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: your own shingle. I'm curious.

894
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: Well, I did start to draw down, and that was

895
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: the plan the entire time, is that I was going

896
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 3: to live off my investments. I wasn't looking to be

897
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 3: an entrepreneur. I wasn't looking to make I didn't even

898
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 3: have like any real estate or anything like that. So

899
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: I did start drawing down. Now I've been retired for

900
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: about five years now. Every year has been different. So

901
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 3: some of the work that I do in the financial

902
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: literacy and financial education space was paid and is paid,

903
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: but I wasn't depending on that, and I didn't know

904
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: how that would look, but I wasn't designing it that way.

905
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 3: So everything I do is more of a labor of love.

906
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 3: And these are projects that I want to take on.

907
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 3: These are people that I want to work with, people

908
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: that I want to talk to. I mean, I'm talking

909
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 3: to you guys today because I want to talk to you, right, Yeah, if.

910
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: You know, I don't no checks in the mail, Jackie, Well,

911
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that that does mean that you have

912
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: earned some money, So that I assume that means you've

913
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: been able to draw down, perhaps less than you had

914
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: originally planned, but but either way, Like, did you find

915
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 2: that to be difficult to make again, make that sort

916
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: of mental transition to that drawdown strategy? Essentially?

917
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was hard to make that shift, right, So

918
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: I had to decide, Okay, how often do I want

919
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: to take money out of my investment accounts? You know,

920
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: do I want to do it quarterly? Do I want

921
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: to do it annually? Oh? I think this project that

922
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: I did, I think that's going to be coming in.

923
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: So I'm having to make all these decisions and I'm

924
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: comfortable with it now. I mean, ideally, if I'm completely

925
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 3: just living off of my investments, I would do that

926
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: about quarterly because doing it annually is like so many

927
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: things can happen in the given year, and you know,

928
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 3: twenty twenty prove that. So I'm like, Okay, yeah, I

929
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 3: definitely don't want to do it because a weird thing

930
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: happened in twenty twenty where they allowed you to take

931
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 3: money out of your traditional IRA and not pay the

932
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: ten percent penalty, and so I took advantage of that,

933
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 3: and you know, so that was, you know, a nice,

934
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: little unique fluke that I took advantage of. So I'm

935
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: still getting used to it, to be honest. And not

936
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: only am I getting used to like making withdrawals from

937
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: my investment accounts, it's getting used to I feel like

938
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: I'm almost moving into this entrepreneur type of thing that

939
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: I never thought. I just, you know, I didn't come

940
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 3: from I wasn't around other entrepreneurs. I didn't ever really

941
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: feel like I had the entrepreneurial spirit. So that's a

942
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 3: little weird. I guess at some point I'll have to

943
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: declare myself not tired anymore. I'm not ready to do

944
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: that because I'm not bringing in the big bucks like

945
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 3: you guys. So I do projects here, the unique projects

946
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: that I want to do, but I've been doing them

947
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 3: more and more, and I'm like, Okay, at some point

948
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: I'm kind of gonna declear that I'm not retired anymore.

949
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: But not quite ready to do that, because you know,

950
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 3: even last year I did take I did have to

951
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: withdraw out of my portfolio. You know, I'm still not

952
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: making a left to live off of where I wouldn't

953
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: take money out of my portfolio.

954
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

955
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: Well that's the cool thing too about fire, and you

956
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: were talking about kind of choose your own adventure, and

957
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: it can look different. And for some people it does

958
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: look like never working for money again, and for other

959
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: people it's you dabble, and for other people it's it's

960
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: part time. It's parice to fire. I mean, there really

961
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: are a whole bunch of choices that you can make

962
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: and your choice to pour into this and and hey,

963
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: some of it's paid, some of it's not, but it's

964
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: it's all about the work and making sure that you're

965
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: spending your time in a way that's meaningful to you.

966
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: I think that's like a pattern that a lot of

967
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: people will want to follow, and part of getting that

968
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: is having the money to back you up to do that.

969
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: But we've got a few more questions we want to

970
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: get to with you, Jackie, specifically talking about post retirement life,

971
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: although I don't know you might be.

972
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 2: Moving out of that.

973
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: Actually we'll get to a few questions on that front

974
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: right after this. How we're back in the break still

975
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: talking with Jackie Cummings Coski about fire and hey, how

976
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 1: you can actually still achieve fire. You can achieve financial

977
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: independence even if you're starting late. So JACKIM curious, just

978
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: kind of like to set up this last segment, what

979
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: would you say to someone who's listening to How to

980
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: Money right now and maybe they feel like a late

981
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: bloomer financially speaking, maybe they are in their late thirties

982
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: or early forties. I see people in our how to

983
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: Money Facebook group sometime sometimes their early thirties, and they're saying, Guys,

984
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: I feel so behind, and I know that is a

985
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: common feeling. Especially I feel like you're drinking from a

986
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: fire hose listening to a new pots are reading a

987
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: book and starting to get caught up on some of

988
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: this information. What would you say to someone who feels

989
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: like that they're in that position but they still have

990
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: time on their side.

991
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way because,

992
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: to be honest, up until a few years ago, in

993
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: most states, this personal finance stuff, it's not taught in school,

994
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: and a lot of times just taboo to even talk

995
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 3: about it at home. So the average person is probably

996
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 3: a late starter to a lot of this. Okay, and

997
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: I loved it. Since I love financial literacy so much,

998
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 3: I'll just why don't I give you guys a trivia question?

999
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: How many states right now require a standalone personal finance

1000
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 3: course in order to graduate from high school?

1001
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: Gustin thirty seven, twenty five.

1002
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: Wow, you guys are pretty optimistic, you know. When I

1003
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: usually ask that, they're like two, five, eight.

1004
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: Well's changed a lot in recent years.

1005
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a lot. It's twenty five states now

1006
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 3: require a personal finance class in order to graduate from

1007
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 3: high school. That is a lot of progress, because just

1008
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: ten years ago. I think it was barely seven, so

1009
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 3: we've made some movement. So anyway, I digress. I'm sorry

1010
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 3: about that, but there's a lot of people that feel

1011
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 3: like they're behind. Part of it is because it's not

1012
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 3: taught in school. A lot of times we don't learn

1013
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: about it at home, or maybe we haven't had very

1014
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 3: good role models. So when you wake up and you're

1015
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: realizing this, honestly, that's a powerful moment in and of

1016
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: itself to say, wow, I'm not where I should be. Well,

1017
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 3: the only reason you've realized that is because now you're

1018
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: exposed to so much more than you ever have been.

1019
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 3: And I always say, you really do got to get

1020
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: the mental and the psychological part together first. Like when

1021
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 3: I got divorced, it took me about two years before

1022
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: I started moving forward because nothing is happening until your

1023
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 3: mind is there. And so once you're done with that part,

1024
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: you really got to know where you're starting. So have

1025
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 3: you ever done a network statement? Have you ever really

1026
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 3: pulled all your debt into one place to look at

1027
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 3: all the interest rates and see what you really owe?

1028
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 3: Are you doing the smartest thing with your student loans?

1029
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 3: You know? Are you on an income driven repayment plan.

1030
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 3: Is that better than the plan that you're on? You know,

1031
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 3: what assets do you have? Are you investing in your

1032
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: for so all of those things. You can start organizing

1033
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 3: and see, you know, what are my deficiencies and what

1034
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: are my superpowers. So if you've got a really high income,

1035
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 3: you know that's that's pretty powerful. So that might be

1036
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: able to help you out a lot. And your problem

1037
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: might not be an income, so maybe you have to

1038
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 3: go you do have to look closer at your expenses

1039
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: and things like that. Or if you are, you know,

1040
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: making a modest income let's say thirty thousand dollars, but

1041
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: you're really good at cutting your expenses and everything, well,

1042
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: your problem might not be your expenses. Your problem may be, oh,

1043
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 3: I think I need to do some things to get

1044
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 3: this income up. You know, maybe you want to do

1045
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 3: some real estate, maybe you want to go back to

1046
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: school and get a degree, or maybe you want to

1047
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 3: build a skill and be you know, a skilled worker

1048
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: who knows but you start. Once you organize your finances

1049
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: and look at where you're starting, it will help you

1050
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: determine what is going to be the most impactful area

1051
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 3: to start. And so those two things will kind of

1052
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,479
Speaker 3: you know, get you going. And I guess one little

1053
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 3: trick that I found. I, like I said, when I

1054
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: wanted to know so much about the stock market, and

1055
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 3: I started with Investment Club, that might not have been

1056
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: the ideal place to start, but I started. So think

1057
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: about the thing that gets you excited the most. You know,

1058
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people really do love real estate, and

1059
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 3: so whatever that thing is that gets you the most excited,

1060
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 3: go ahead and start there, because all of this will

1061
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 3: come full circle. All of this is intertwined. And if

1062
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 3: you get stuck on let's say you hate doing a

1063
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 3: budget and you think it's grueling, you might procrastinate and

1064
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 3: you never get to it. So that means there's no movement.

1065
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: But at least if you're doing something that you're excited

1066
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: about it and you're really interested in your gung ho

1067
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: about it, you're moving and you're doing something, and then

1068
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: you can start to round everything out by touching on

1069
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 3: these other areas that are going to be really important

1070
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: as well. So those are just some of the things

1071
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 3: I would share with someone that is feeling like they're

1072
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 3: getting a late start.

1073
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's incredibly well, said Jackie. We really

1074
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 2: appreciate your wisdom, and earlier too, he mentioned like what

1075
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: is your superpower and for folks to be able to

1076
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: lean into that. I think that that can sort of

1077
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: help to orient like what direction you're going to pull in,

1078
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: especially as you're considering some of these various versions and

1079
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 2: flavors of five.

1080
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: I think just the way Jackie, you've talked about financial independence,

1081
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: it makes it feel more accessible, like it doesn't have

1082
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: to be one size of its.

1083
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 2: Off, feel more normal. Yeah, as opposed to this sort

1084
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: of earlier too, you said something about like it's not

1085
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 2: like we all sat down and signed some sort of

1086
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: agreement show, like there's now like declaration that everyone who

1087
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: signs up for five that they're signing up to a tier.

1088
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: To you, you can make it whatever it is that

1089
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: you want it to look like, and you definitely have

1090
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: done that. Jackie, thank you so much for talking with

1091
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: us today. Where can folks learn more about you and

1092
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: what it is that you're up to.

1093
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they can just search me on any social

1094
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 3: media platform or my website. It's just Jackie Cummingscosky dot

1095
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 3: com and I'm mostly on Instagram, Facebook. If you're a

1096
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 3: corporate person like I am, LinkedIn is always a great place.

1097
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 3: But also I host a podcast, as you mentioned, called

1098
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 3: Catching Up to five that is for late starters for

1099
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 3: whatever reason. If you're a late starter, that is what

1100
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 3: we focus on. I host it with Bill Yant and

1101
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 3: we have an amazing time. You know, the podcast just

1102
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 3: took off from day one, but you can go to

1103
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 3: catching updefive dot com find out more about us, listen

1104
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 3: to the podcast. That would be awesome. But I'll also

1105
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: mention that, you know, one thing you guys said about

1106
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 3: making this acceptable accessible to everyone, that is hugely important

1107
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 3: to me because, like I said, I grew up in poverty.

1108
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: I know so many brilliant, smart people that also grew

1109
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 3: up in poverty and was never exposed to this stuff.

1110
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 3: So I really really want to make it available and

1111
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: realistic for anyone because of me. You know, poor girl,

1112
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: poor little black girl you know growing growing up in

1113
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 3: the South that you know, managed to make it out

1114
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: of poverty, become middle class and reach financial independence that

1115
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 3: retired early. I'm not that special and I don't think

1116
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 3: I'm that different. So hopefully more people will find that

1117
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: relatable and will think, huh, maybe I can do what.

1118
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 3: I just need to make sure it is crafted in

1119
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 3: a way that makes sense for me.

1120
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, someone, it's not about lack of IQ,

1121
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: it's about lack of education so much of the time.

1122
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: And you're right, what you're doing, well, we're trying to

1123
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: do over here. It's all about educating people so they

1124
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: can make better choices, so they can live a life

1125
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: that isn't bound by the tragedy of money, mistakes and

1126
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: debt and just an inability to grow their wa Well,

1127
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: so Jackie, we love what you're doing. Thank you again

1128
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: so much for joining us today on the podcast.

1129
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 3: Oh it was awesome, thanks guys.

1130
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, Wow, Jackie is just such a breath

1131
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: of fresh air.

1132
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: Yes, she is.

1133
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: That was a great conversation.

1134
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: And she's such a great story you know, like like

1135
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 2: I think that's honestly, like her unique story, her unique

1136
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: perspective and how it is that she approached fire is.

1137
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we wanted to have her.

1138
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: N A lot we can glean from the story, but

1139
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: also a lot we can glean from the progress she's

1140
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: made and everything she's gleaned over the years. Yeah, just

1141
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: a holistically great interview I think on so many levels.

1142
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: So all right, it makes it tough. I guess what

1143
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway from this one?

1144
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: Well, I just like how she just kept beating this

1145
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: drum of you have to find your own version of

1146
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 2: what financial independence is going to look like, and like

1147
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: it was less about like the fire movement, I feel like,

1148
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: and more just about what it is that you want

1149
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: your life to look like like for her, I guess

1150
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: we have to take it back to the whole fire thing.

1151
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 2: But like for her, like she's luxury car fire, like

1152
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: that's what she wanted. She's like, I don't luxury cars,

1153
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: yeah exactly, but with then you know, I've got my

1154
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: standards once I buy my Rivi and I'm going to

1155
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 2: be unreasonable. Luxury car fire, dude buy a couple of

1156
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: years old. Let's somebody else take that depreciation hitgel. But

1157
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 2: like for her, that's what it was. She is not

1158
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 2: willing to drive, you know, a three hundred thousand mile clunker.

1159
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 2: And I think that's so important to hear is to

1160
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: not overgeneralize, to not make assumptions based on what it

1161
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: is that you've heard about fire, but to rather think

1162
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: through what it is that you want your life to

1163
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 2: look like specifically. And I feel like Jackie just did

1164
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: a great job doing that, just pointing out the fact that, like, hey,

1165
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: I was inspired by some of these stories, by some

1166
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: of the data.

1167
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 3: Right.

1168
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 2: She mentioned even some of the specific numbers that folks

1169
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 2: like our friend Carl mister fifteen hundred that he's sharing

1170
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 2: putting out there because it makes it more real and

1171
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,959
Speaker 2: it helps folks to see that like, oh, okay, cool,

1172
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: there is a small snippet that's a small example of

1173
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: what this could look like. That's not me, but to

1174
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: then see I could do something similar to that, but

1175
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 2: my own version of that, how.

1176
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: Can I adapt as a single income and maybe not

1177
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: as high income individual, like, but you can take that

1178
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: as a template and then kind of try to adjust

1179
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: it to your own needs and your own kind of

1180
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: specific financial numbers.

1181
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 2: So that was my biggest takeaway, though, what about you I.

1182
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: When she said towards the end of the episode, she said,

1183
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 1: the average person is a late starter, and I was like, WHOA,

1184
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: I think spot on it. The average person doesn't start

1185
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: investing so there after the age of forty matten. So

1186
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: I think when we get especially people listening to how

1187
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: to Money, the average listener is in their thirties. I

1188
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: would say, well, if you feel like you're late, you're

1189
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: not late in comparison to the average person who is

1190
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: actually starting later on down the road.

1191
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, or even if you are. I mean, like it's

1192
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 2: like the average fifty to fifty five year old has

1193
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: something like one hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty

1194
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: thousand saved within the retirement account. You've got a Nessegg started,

1195
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 2: but simultaneously, you know, it's much less than what it

1196
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 2: is that where you wish it was.

1197
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the very least, I think just knowing though

1198
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: that like, no, I'm not behind the eight ball. And hey,

1199
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: Jackie did this from thirty eight to forty eight. She

1200
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: did it in a decade, and she even stated her

1201
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: job longer than she needed to. She was able to

1202
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: make that much proger in so little time. So much

1203
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: is about your mindset. So much is about educating yourself

1204
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: and then starting to do the implementation. I mean, one

1205
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: of the things she also said was nothing is happening

1206
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: until your mind is there. And I'm hoping that like

1207
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: this episode, if you are one of those people and

1208
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm like dipping my toes in the in

1209
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: the personal finance waters, maybe this episode gets you to say,

1210
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: all right, now I'm ready to go with like like

1211
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: a like I've got a fire on my backside to

1212
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: kind of move faster in that direction because Jackie's story

1213
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: is so inspirational.

1214
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: That's right, All right, let's get back to the beer.

1215
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: You and I both enjoyed a pretty bird pretty bird

1216
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: number reference. Yeah, yeah, the actual illustration that's got a

1217
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: little parakeet or whatever. Did you know this is this

1218
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: head duct tape on a little duc dab ya collar.

1219
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: But this is a beer by Gate City Brewing Company

1220
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: here in Atlanta, specifically in Roswell, Georgia. What did you think?

1221
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1222
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean this this beer had a really great mouthfields,

1223
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: like really pillowy, really luscious. But I will say that

1224
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: the flavor was good, not great.

1225
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: I thought it was solid.

1226
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had like a more tropical vibes going on.

1227
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 2: It was a more traditional I pa. And you know what,

1228
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: it reminded me of what Hopslam. It had this kind

1229
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: of like a honey sweetness, which was a classic, but

1230
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: not nearly as big and sort of overwhelming as Hopslam,

1231
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: but it still had that same sort of honey sweetness

1232
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: going on. It just kind of reminded me of like

1233
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: an old school I PA in that way, but very

1234
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: very delicious. Yeah there's a spot for this being one.

1235
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but all right, that's gonna be it for

1236
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: this episode. We'll make sure to link to Jackie's book,

1237
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: her new book their podcast as well, and you can

1238
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 2: find that up in the show notes over at how

1239
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 2: tomoney dot com. So, until next time, best friends Out

1240
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 2: and best Friends Out.