Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, y'all, welcome back to the show. I've been
Speaker 1: interviewing so many different people who've clawed their way into
Speaker 1: industries that can seem impossible for someone like them to
Speaker 1: break into. When I met Jisca Matthews, it was clear
Speaker 1: taking up space was something she thrived on. You can
Speaker 1: hear it in the way she talks about being a
Speaker 1: young black woman in a field filled with fifty five
Speaker 1: year old white men. What does Jessica do well? She's
Speaker 1: actually an inventor, and her sophomore year at Harvard, when
Speaker 1: she was just nineteen years old, Jessica invented an energy
Speaker 1: generating soccer ball called the Socket. Her invention got her
Speaker 1: on the radar of folks like Bill Clinton and Barack
Speaker 1: Obama and helped her launch a company called Uncharted Power,
Speaker 1: which is trying to reimagine and reinvent the way a
Speaker 1: city's infrastructure can store power. I mean, super ambitious stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm eager for you all to hear how Jessica thinks
Speaker 1: about her life and her career, which she says is
Speaker 1: the difference between happiness and success. This is started from
Speaker 1: the bottom, hard earned success stories from people like us.
Speaker 1: If you can simply explain what the socket is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a soccer ball that generates energy when it rolls.
Speaker 2: When you pass it, it generates energy, stores the power
Speaker 2: inside the ball. You don't have to be an engineer
Speaker 2: to use it. All you have to do is know
Speaker 2: how to play soccer.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't just like glow or something though, right, there's.
Speaker 3: Like a no, you would actually plug things into it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3: And again it was small.
Speaker 2: It was it could never power our house or even
Speaker 2: a room. You know, we're talking about small lights. The
Speaker 2: goal was never to create something that generated a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of energy. The idea was less about the product
Speaker 2: that was created and more about the idea that was
Speaker 2: created and the magic behind it, and the ability to
Speaker 2: get people to feel like you were using science to
Speaker 2: make magic real and to have them attribute that to me.
Speaker 2: All of that happened, you know, from nineteen to twenty four.
Speaker 2: It got me on stages with Bill Clinton where he
Speaker 2: said things like, if ever there was an innovator, she's it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It got me in rooms with just brilliant people, rooms
Speaker 2: that normally people like me, people who look like me,
Speaker 2: would never be in.
Speaker 1: How do you invent something This is like literally the
Speaker 1: dumbest question about how do you invent something?
Speaker 3: How do you invent something?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: To me, the first step of innovation is the articulation
Speaker 2: of the problem. So what do I mean by that?
Speaker 2: Do not start saying you want to invent something and
Speaker 2: then start thinking about the thing you want to invent.
Speaker 2: Start thinking about the problem you want to solve, and
Speaker 2: detail it.
Speaker 3: Right, So, what's the problem?
Speaker 2: Okay, Now let's do some root cause analysis, Like, let's
Speaker 2: really try for what's the problem?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 2: Why is that a problem? Why is this an issue?
Speaker 2: Where did this come from? Once you have your problem, articularly,
Speaker 2: once you're like, okay, this is the problem I want
Speaker 2: to solve, then you start saying, Okay, what are some
Speaker 2: ways to solve it? You can, you can do a
Speaker 2: brainstorm and just start thinking about things. But what I
Speaker 2: actually recommend is, once you have the problem articulated, step
Speaker 2: away and go and live your life.
Speaker 3: Why.
Speaker 2: The definition of science is the study of life. So
Speaker 2: if you're living, and the more that you live, the
Speaker 2: more that I believe you're a scientist. And so if
Speaker 2: you're trying to come up with something, most likely you're
Speaker 2: going to pull the answer from your life if you
Speaker 2: were if you live a sheltered life, you're gonna come
Speaker 2: up with a sheltered fucking answer. Your invention is gonna
Speaker 2: be some sheltered as shit. But if you want to
Speaker 2: come up with something that's broad, if you want to
Speaker 2: be able to say, you know what, there's this problem
Speaker 2: here with like inspiration and energy, and the answer is
Speaker 2: going to be a soccer ball that can generate energy
Speaker 2: that's going to come from going out and seeing your
Speaker 2: cousins play soccer.
Speaker 3: And it's going to hit you.
Speaker 2: That's gonna come from walking down the street and seeing
Speaker 2: a woman push their kid and be like, oh wait
Speaker 2: a minute, what about this? Like, you have to observe
Speaker 2: and experience as much as possible in your life because
Speaker 2: that's gonna be the bank that you pull your idea from.
Speaker 2: So you articulate your problem so it's there, and then
Speaker 2: you go and live your life and you have a
Speaker 2: notebook and you just jop down ideas as they come
Speaker 2: to you, versus a forced brainstorm. I suggest go and
Speaker 2: put yourselves in put yourself in situations that will inspire you,
Speaker 2: that will engage you, and that will get you thinking
Speaker 2: about different things. Now you got your ideas, you have
Speaker 2: to prototype it, and now you're gonna sit here and
Speaker 2: be like, I can't make this dumb, this thing down
Speaker 2: to the most embarrassing, ridiculous shit that you can make.
Speaker 2: So I'll give you an example. The first prototype of
Speaker 2: the socket. I went to target and I got a
Speaker 2: clear plastic hamster ball. I went to home depot and
Speaker 2: I got a shape the charge flash light. I put
Speaker 2: the shape the charge flashlight inside of the hamster ball.
Speaker 2: I rolled it back and forth. For the concept of
Speaker 2: a ball that could generate energy with motion. That was
Speaker 2: the first prototype. The goal of your prototype is to
Speaker 2: find the simplest thing that you can create that you
Speaker 2: can then get feedback on to make sure your shit
Speaker 2: makes sense. The answer becomes, yes, you make a prototype
Speaker 2: that's just a little bit better, a little bit better,
Speaker 2: a little bit better. Before you know it, I'm in Shenzen, China,
Speaker 2: like you know, telling everyone I'm Serena Williams that they
Speaker 2: make my fucking soccer balls on time like that that
Speaker 2: was a true story.
Speaker 3: We don't have enough time to go for that, So
Speaker 3: there's that, Like what's going on there now?
Speaker 1: To go from the initial prototype looks like feels like
Speaker 1: acts like perhaps, okay, you might need a little bit
Speaker 1: of money. You go from the initial prototype to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the art of the side hustle should not be underestimated,
Speaker 2: you know in the beginning. Again, there's grants you can
Speaker 2: do a friends and family, but you know, if you're oftentimes,
Speaker 2: if you're a minority, friends and family is like here's
Speaker 2: a sandwich.
Speaker 3: I mean, here's a true in kind investment.
Speaker 2: There are some grants, but they do so oftentimes take
Speaker 2: time to get and you're probably gonna be impatient, and
Speaker 2: you should be. So I would say, like when when
Speaker 2: a charity play got started, I was still working at
Speaker 2: another company. You can't like you you know, you have
Speaker 2: to make sure you separate things.
Speaker 1: Did that risk? Did that risk them owning your IP?
Speaker 2: As long as you do not use any of the
Speaker 2: company's equipment to do it, or any of their ideas
Speaker 2: or anything from there, And then you can prove that
Speaker 2: they actually knew because before I went to go and
Speaker 2: work for that company, they knew that I had invented
Speaker 2: this thing in college. So then you're you're fine, but
Speaker 2: you definitely don't want to sit there and use the
Speaker 2: company's resources. No, don't do that. That's just that's just
Speaker 2: bad karma. But I know a lot of people who
Speaker 2: you know, they're lawyers, their accountants, and then they spend
Speaker 2: two hours on the weekend working on a makeup company
Speaker 2: like it's normally something totally different.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I'm inspired. I'm going to go invent something today.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be working on a prototype in the kitchen tonight. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, it should look wild. You should be like this,
Speaker 3: sh'll look crazy.
Speaker 1: That's the most freeing thing I've ever heard, that your
Speaker 1: prototype you make a hamster wheel and a shake flash?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Are there any other steps in the invention process we
Speaker 1: left out just to cover our bases here.
Speaker 3: Once you have.
Speaker 2: A prototype that's starting to look a little bit more presentable,
Speaker 2: an invention doesn't matter if you're the only one who
Speaker 2: knows about it. So a really, really key part is
Speaker 2: open up. I know people are afraid. People are gonna say, well,
Speaker 2: what if someone steals my idea. I'm gonna say this
Speaker 2: straight up. It is so hard to do most things.
Speaker 2: It is so hard to do most things. In order
Speaker 2: for someone to steal your idea, the number of things
Speaker 2: they'd have to have on you, right, and so I
Speaker 2: think that oftentimes when you will invent something, they have
Speaker 2: an idea, they keep it to themselves. But by doing that,
Speaker 2: you're not kind of activating that feedback loop that's going
Speaker 2: to do two things. Give you a better understanding of
Speaker 2: how to improve that invention, but also give you the
Speaker 2: confidence to know that this is something that makes sense
Speaker 2: to more people than just you. The more you start
Speaker 2: to tell it to people and tell people, you're also
Speaker 2: going to get two things that are going to happen.
Speaker 2: People are going to either want to give you some money,
Speaker 2: or give you some time, or give you an opportunity.
Speaker 2: And one of those three things are going to be
Speaker 2: a catalyst to getting you from making something in the
Speaker 2: kitchen to you know, being in a room where someone says, Yo,
Speaker 2: we know about you.
Speaker 3: You need to become a business that we can do
Speaker 3: business with you.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. How do you get to a point at
Speaker 1: age nineteen where you invent this thing that opens up
Speaker 1: all these doors for you? How does that happen?
Speaker 3: I remember.
Speaker 2: Very early on telling myself it's not about strategies for success,
Speaker 2: it's about strategies for happiness, and that as soon as
Speaker 2: I understand the role that success plays in my happiness,
Speaker 2: but it's not the only thing that impacts my happiness.
Speaker 2: You know, I'll have a true north that that I
Speaker 2: can count on, and that makes sense, And so that
Speaker 2: means I had to really spend some time, you know,
Speaker 2: in my teenage years even thinking about, well, what actually
Speaker 2: makes me happy?
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until college.
Speaker 2: Though, where where I realized that my life was just
Speaker 2: it was everything I was going to make it and
Speaker 2: everything I wasn't going to make it that I think
Speaker 2: I spent the real time doing that reflection and that, yeah,
Speaker 2: that ended up being a little of my compass. So
Speaker 2: I would actually sit down as I would push in
Speaker 2: anything that I'm doing, any job I have any kind
Speaker 2: of bigger goal, right, So any work that I have
Speaker 2: rather not necessarily a job, but any work that I have.
Speaker 2: Every couple of weeks, I'll ask myself, am I happy?
Speaker 2: And there's really only two answers that are allowed. Yes,
Speaker 2: which is great or no. But this is temporary, right,
Speaker 2: So I might be like, no, I'm not happy because
Speaker 2: I'm I'm stressed about how many hours I'm working. It's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: is the result of those hours will that make you happy? Yes, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: then listen, push through. You can fight through for that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I think having that as my true north,
Speaker 2: and then also recognizing like that I'm somewhat of.
Speaker 1: Like a.
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer that luck is an acronym that
Speaker 2: it stands for laboring under correct knowledge.
Speaker 3: And so I think coupled with.
Speaker 2: That, at a relatively early early age, at the age
Speaker 2: of nineteen, I had something lucky happened to me.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to your initial epiphany about happiness versus success.
Speaker 1: What were the circumstances that made that thought occur to you?
Speaker 2: You know, again be Nigerian and having so much family
Speaker 2: in Nigeria, knowing where were comfortable where they weren't, but
Speaker 2: also knowing down the street how many people were living
Speaker 2: with so little. You know, I always tell my my
Speaker 2: husband he was born in Mississippi. I'm like, you want
Speaker 2: to know how Nigerians think about poverty in the United States?
Speaker 2: Only in America can you be overweight? And for do
Speaker 2: you understand? Like no, do you understand like that, like
Speaker 2: the fact that government cheese exists, cheesecat great food?
Speaker 1: We met it? Like no?
Speaker 3: Like what so so like.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here thinking about like yo, like I'm one
Speaker 2: hundred Nigerian.
Speaker 3: I know I'm saying some while nored percent. I'm not
Speaker 3: trying to like all I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying like I'm over here like sitting down
Speaker 2: thinking like God, it could have been the easiest thing
Speaker 2: for me to be born in that fucking hut over there, like.
Speaker 3: That would have been the easiest. Like it's not like
Speaker 3: it would have been like I can't have imagined. I
Speaker 3: can imagine it.
Speaker 2: This is where I'm from, this is my village, this
Speaker 2: is where my dad grew up. My dad grew up
Speaker 2: so poor that he only started eating corn five years
Speaker 2: ago because that's all they could afford growing up.
Speaker 3: And he was like, I cannot eat anymore corn, Like
Speaker 3: it could have easily been that. Why why not?
Speaker 2: And so I think when you have that realization of
Speaker 2: gratitude and that realization of privilege, even despite the systemic
Speaker 2: issues working against you, again, like I have no problem
Speaker 2: saying I have privilege just because of the luck luck
Speaker 2: can be privileged. That's something sometimes I think that white
Speaker 2: people struggle with luck can be privileged. Hard work can
Speaker 2: be privileged. Yes, my dad had to work like hell
Speaker 2: to get out. My mom had to work like hell,
Speaker 2: her dad was a teacher to get out. But still
Speaker 2: I'm the next door neighbor did it, and like I
Speaker 2: could have been born to them. And so I think
Speaker 2: that with that, I remember immediately saying, Okay, whenever I pray,
Speaker 2: I'm never going to ask for anything. I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: say thank you, because like I had this weird thought
Speaker 2: in my mind that all of this stuff that God
Speaker 2: gave me could be taken away unless I give him
Speaker 2: a really strong ROI.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of things at the age of eight
Speaker 3: and nine.
Speaker 2: So that's when I started to realize that this thing
Speaker 2: called life was more than just a push. You had
Speaker 2: to really think about your frame of mind whenever your
Speaker 2: last breath would be.
Speaker 3: And I remembered sitting.
Speaker 1: In so you're eight, your eight, you're young, and you're
Speaker 1: thinking about your last breath on earth. This is These
Speaker 1: are not the thoughts of normal eight year olds.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, the fact that I'm having ROI like return on
Speaker 2: investment prayer sessions with God that I reckon that was
Speaker 2: probably the first weird thing. But then I'm actually eighteen
Speaker 2: years old when I start to realize, yo, like this
Speaker 2: is not just about an ROI thing, Like people are
Speaker 2: out here dying. People my own family are dying, and
Speaker 2: they're dying not with this like gratitude, hope feeling of
Speaker 2: you know that I have, like from the age of eight,
Speaker 2: they're dying kind of feeling like their world is the
Speaker 2: status quo. They can't do anything to change it, They
Speaker 2: have no influence. The only way to solve their problems
Speaker 2: is to pretend like they don't have them and let
Speaker 2: them kill them. Yeah, and so from there, that's when
Speaker 2: my kind of ethos in life got a little bit
Speaker 2: more dynamic. That's when I started to say, all right, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know when my last breath is going to be,
Speaker 2: so strategies for happiness, Vircius, strategies for success. But then
Speaker 2: at the same time, you know, I think I never
Speaker 2: lost this this kind of realization that part of what
Speaker 2: makes me really happen be is trying to solve really
Speaker 2: big fucking problems.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Jessica O Matthews.
Speaker 2: The problem that I found was that my cousins, who
Speaker 2: were trained engineers, chemists and you know, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers,
Speaker 2: they had told themselves that there was no changing the
Speaker 2: status quo in terms of their world, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to create something that inspired them to realize that it
Speaker 2: was a much more accessible.
Speaker 3: Thing to change things. And so that was that was it.
Speaker 2: And I have a degree in psychology and economics. Like
Speaker 2: I this invention came from a whole lot of Google,
Speaker 2: like a lot of googling.
Speaker 3: You'd be surprised what you could google.
Speaker 2: I currently sit on the Department of Energy's Electricity Advisory Committee,
Speaker 2: federally appointed from the Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 3: Of the United States because of.
Speaker 2: A fucking soccer ball, like like like, let me be clear,
Speaker 2: because I googled my way to figuring out the soccer ball,
Speaker 2: and then I never stopped googling, And so now I
Speaker 2: mean what I do now in some ways couldn't be
Speaker 2: farther from a soccer ball. But it's the same, the
Speaker 2: same goal, the same point of how do we make
Speaker 2: sure that people realize that things could be better in
Speaker 2: their infrastructure of their world, and how do we create
Speaker 2: technologies that empower people to be part of that that solution.
Speaker 3: It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: So what was the status quo for your cousins who
Speaker 1: were engineers in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: In Nigeria, the craziest thing is just it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: if you're in the village or if you're in the
Speaker 2: bustling city of Legos. Energy, reliable energy, just you know,
Speaker 2: it was a massive issue, especially back then. Now, yes,
Speaker 2: you're everyone has generators regardless, but you're just losing power
Speaker 2: every day, several times a day, period, point blank. And
Speaker 2: like I even now, I would say you should expect
Speaker 2: to lose power most days. So that was kind of
Speaker 2: the setup, you know, that that impact, that shift was
Speaker 2: the day to day even a wedding right which I
Speaker 2: was actually really proud. I got married in Nigeria early
Speaker 2: this year and we didn't lose power once. And like,
Speaker 2: to be honest, sometimes I feel like half of this
Speaker 2: work that I've done was just.
Speaker 3: To pull off, to pull off.
Speaker 2: The dynamics of stable energy during all these ceremonies, because
Speaker 2: again were I remember my aunt, you know, losing power
Speaker 2: during her wedding. I remember us bringing in the diesel generator.
Speaker 2: I remember the fuse making me feel like I was
Speaker 2: gonna faint. I remember my cousin saying, don't worry, You'll
Speaker 2: get used to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say when you when when you're
Speaker 1: bringing you're talking about, you know, people having to work
Speaker 1: with kerosene lamps, and then you just mention it now
Speaker 1: bringing in like diesel generators. I mean, these are all like,
Speaker 1: these aren't benign things. I mean, like the fumes from
Speaker 1: a kerosene lamp, the fumes from a diesel generator have
Speaker 1: you know, can have lasting health consequences.
Speaker 2: You know who said that living with a kerosene lamp
Speaker 2: is like smoking two packs of cigarettes to day. So
Speaker 2: it's horrible for you, it's something that's horrible for the environment.
Speaker 2: It's killing every single person in that situation. But I
Speaker 2: think what I also knew at that young age, and
Speaker 2: this is what's kind of funny about what I do
Speaker 2: now compared to how I started. I remember when the
Speaker 2: socket was being formulated and where I was in this
Speaker 2: kind of class with other people also who had kind
Speaker 2: of spent some time in the developing world, and we're
Speaker 2: all kind of throwing in our thoughts, and I remember
Speaker 2: very specifically stating the thing is all of these problems
Speaker 2: are infrastructural. They masquerade a socio economic People think, oh,
Speaker 2: these countries are poor, like actually people are paying more
Speaker 2: for killawat hour in the form of kerosene oil. Then
Speaker 2: we're paying in the United States still even with the
Speaker 2: rise and costs and everything that's going on. But they
Speaker 2: don't have stable infrastructure to pay into. They don't have
Speaker 2: like an overarching system that they can trust to pay into.
Speaker 2: So everybody's like every man for himself or herself or whatever.
Speaker 2: And so that's you have to go and get the
Speaker 2: kerosine lamp and you do what you have to do.
Speaker 2: So there isn't there isn't a grid that you can
Speaker 2: count on. There isn't all of that. But it's not
Speaker 2: a socio economic issue. And so for me, though even
Speaker 2: though I knew it was an infrastructural issue, infrastructure is
Speaker 2: not me. I don't know shit about it. No one
Speaker 2: there looks like me. The average age of someone working
Speaker 2: in energy infrastructure in the United States fifty five. I
Speaker 2: think the average person is a fifty five year old,
Speaker 2: straight white man.
Speaker 3: That's what they said. Clearly.
Speaker 2: I am not a fifty five year old straight white man.
Speaker 2: And so I literally told myself, I got to create
Speaker 2: something that can inspire the right people to solve this problem.
Speaker 2: My cousin's being one you know they're engineers, at least
Speaker 2: they're trained in this space. But this is scary, this
Speaker 2: is big. I don't get it. I don't let me
Speaker 2: just this is what I know I can do. The
Speaker 2: problem is that too many people feel like they can't
Speaker 2: change their surroundings. Let me invent something that will inspire
Speaker 2: them to realize that the world isn't just as it is,
Speaker 2: it can also be what they create. And that's that's
Speaker 2: the socket, you know, That's that's what got me in there.
Speaker 2: It's funny because it's I had this moment, this opportunity
Speaker 2: around maybe twenty maybe twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, where.
Speaker 3: I could I was kind of at a fork in
Speaker 3: the road and I.
Speaker 2: Could have went down the path of trying to see
Speaker 2: if we could just produce a million soccer balls, regardless
Speaker 2: of whether or not that would actually solve any problem,
Speaker 2: right because my current, my first kind of articulation of
Speaker 2: the problem was we're not inspiring enough people to join
Speaker 2: this fight and changing our environment and changing infrastructure, So
Speaker 2: let's inspire them. But if I just put out a
Speaker 2: one million soccer balls, you now have to think about
Speaker 2: plastic and fumes and all these different things are go
Speaker 2: into making them, and I'm like, Okay, is this really
Speaker 2: the way to get to the utopia that we want
Speaker 2: into a world where there's more equitable infrastructure.
Speaker 3: It was part of the.
Speaker 2: Way, and so we still do Uplift programming where we
Speaker 2: actually just we have fewer balls, but we use them
Speaker 2: as an educational tool, and we partner with nonprofits and
Speaker 2: school school districts with the products. So I could have
Speaker 2: gone down that route, or I could pivot and say,
Speaker 2: with what I know right now about infrastructure, what is
Speaker 2: the best way to solve this problem? And so what
Speaker 2: ended up happening over several years really was just kind
Speaker 2: of me one getting closer and closer to getting the
Speaker 2: guts to actually make an infrastructure product and not just
Speaker 2: a product that inspired people to do things in infrastructure,
Speaker 2: and then in some ways inventing quite a few things,
Speaker 2: putting them out in small and small markets to see
Speaker 2: how people were to respond, taking that feedback, and then
Speaker 2: coming back with something else, and coming back with something.
Speaker 1: Else, what else? So what else did you? What else
Speaker 1: did you invent?
Speaker 2: We developed like pavers that you can put fiber optic
Speaker 2: and wire and energy cables in that don't require ripping
Speaker 2: up the ground every single time, developed tools again for
Speaker 2: the different technologies to be able to speak to each other.
Speaker 2: Because a big thing that goes on in infrastructure is
Speaker 2: that of all the technology doesn't speak the same language,
Speaker 2: then you have a lot of redundancies and things don't work.
Speaker 3: So we got deep.
Speaker 1: Where's your understanding of all this coming from? Because again Google,
Speaker 1: Literally you if you Google, you got a degree from
Speaker 1: Harvard in psychology and economics and also an MBA only
Speaker 1: to Google and figure.
Speaker 2: Out how to do Yeah, I mean listen if you
Speaker 2: if you google first of all, if you're like intense, right, So,
Speaker 2: like I do throw myself in to the work because
Speaker 2: it's it's when it's your thing, man, it's like you.
Speaker 3: It becomes something where it's like, hey, why not?
Speaker 1: And I think the more, why not spend the time?
Speaker 1: Why not put why not.
Speaker 3: Spend the time? Why not push it? And I know
Speaker 3: who I'm fighting for?
Speaker 2: And every time we did something, I learned more. So
Speaker 2: you got to think about this world that I'm in
Speaker 2: right now. Like infrastructure is very heady, it's very small.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't work in infrastructure. There might
Speaker 2: I swear to God, there might be more people who
Speaker 2: are getting like laid off from Twitter than work in
Speaker 2: like the highest parts of infrastructure.
Speaker 1: I gotta say, Pete Buddhajet is maybe the only person
Speaker 1: I know who works in infrastructure, like the only person
Speaker 1: I've ever thought of whose name I might know who
Speaker 1: works in infrastructure. And he just started.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. He the policy guy. He's not
Speaker 2: working with the engineers. He's not thinking through, you know,
Speaker 2: the technologies that go into everything. And so the more
Speaker 2: time that I spent in this room, right, this proverbial room,
Speaker 2: I refuse to leave. Once the soccer kind of brought
Speaker 2: me in here, the more I just started to listen
Speaker 2: and learn and pick up on things that very few
Speaker 2: black girls my.
Speaker 3: Age had the opportunity to.
Speaker 2: And so as I'm sitting there and listening and we're
Speaker 2: trying looking at all these different technologies and all these
Speaker 2: different things, I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay, and yeah,
Speaker 2: And each time someone says something but I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is, I Google it. So it's kind of
Speaker 2: like this real time Google listen think. And when I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking from the perspective of a black woman. So
Speaker 2: that's what's kind of exciting too, because if the majority
Speaker 2: of the people in this space don't look like me,
Speaker 2: you should also assume that they're pretty much using the
Speaker 2: same solutions to solve these problems and wondering why it's
Speaker 2: not working. Like the definition of insanity is doing the
Speaker 2: same thing over and over and expecting different results. But
Speaker 2: that essentially is what's happening when everybody's the same in
Speaker 2: this room. So I'm coming in there and I'm coming
Speaker 2: from the perspective of like living in Harlem. I'm looking
Speaker 2: up problems and I'm deciding if that's similar to what
Speaker 2: it takes to get a we've done, and if you know,
Speaker 2: can we solve the.
Speaker 3: Problem this way.
Speaker 1: After our last break, you'll hear more from Jessica about
Speaker 1: how going to business school helped her navigate the energy
Speaker 1: industry that's filled with older white men. What's it like
Speaker 1: being in these rooms with fifty five where the average
Speaker 1: person is fifty five white, straight, not you.
Speaker 2: I think that was a big reason why I felt
Speaker 2: the need to go to business school because prior to that,
Speaker 2: when I was in these rooms, I was constantly thinking,
Speaker 2: if they say something I've never heard of, what am
Speaker 2: I going to do? What am I going to say,
Speaker 2: how am I going to keep up with them?
Speaker 3: The main point.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people go to business school
Speaker 2: to build their networks, but I, whether I should have
Speaker 2: or not, I didn't go for that. I went because
Speaker 2: I wanted to know the parlance like you were talking about,
Speaker 2: like I wanted to know I don't know. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: feel this way about Starbucks, like tall, VINTI, grande, whatever
Speaker 2: the hell, Like I used to have anxiety going to
Speaker 2: Starbucks because I'd be like, yo, I just want to
Speaker 2: say large.
Speaker 3: I don't think I should have to like practice.
Speaker 1: And somebody your confidence up when you're going to Starbucks?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like thinking about yeah, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And so I kind of went to business school being like,
Speaker 2: all right, what's the parlance tall, VNTI, grande, da da dada.
Speaker 2: So that now if I walk into one of these rooms,
Speaker 2: someone might say something like, oh, do you want to
Speaker 2: like you know, I don't know, chit your own like coffee,
Speaker 2: and I'd be like, yo, first of all, you made
Speaker 2: that shiit up.
Speaker 3: Don't act like I'm supposed to know that ship.
Speaker 2: So that I came in knowing all the frameworks so
Speaker 2: that I can move with the confidence and being like
Speaker 2: I know that I know the basics here.
Speaker 3: So if you say something that doesn't make.
Speaker 2: Sense, I had the balls to say, excuse me, can
Speaker 2: you please explain that, because that don't make no damn
Speaker 2: sense to me.
Speaker 1: Right, So you could remove timid from the equation, like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it doesn't make sense just because I don't
Speaker 1: understand it. No, no, no, that don't make sense because it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, makes sense.
Speaker 2: Because you made that shit up. They didn't teach us
Speaker 2: that at Harvard Business School. And like again, I had
Speaker 2: to go to Harvard Business School so I could drop
Speaker 2: my you know what in the room and be like,
Speaker 2: first of all, like, don't just start making shit up.
Speaker 3: Don't just start acting like I should know something. And
Speaker 3: so I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't have imposter syndrome anymore, because you get in
Speaker 2: enough rooms you.
Speaker 3: Start to realize.
Speaker 2: One you get into some rooms and you start to realize, like,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you know, like in the movie Don't
Speaker 2: Look Up, where everyone just assumed there was some a
Speaker 2: group of smart people that are gonna save the world
Speaker 2: and like they're I started to get into those rooms
Speaker 2: and being like hoh, the this, this, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: Jesus helped me. So one is like I started to
Speaker 2: just see kind of time and time again, the proof
Speaker 2: and the pudding that people with more money, more degrees,
Speaker 2: all these different things that like they can't come up
Speaker 2: with the stuff that we can come up with that
Speaker 2: uncharted to help save the world. And when it's it's
Speaker 2: time to make the impossible possible, like I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about when there are things that are stable and settled
Speaker 2: and on growth side of things, you want to have
Speaker 2: certain people there. From an experience perspective, But if you
Speaker 2: are the head of your if you are the CEO
Speaker 2: of your life and the CEO of your career of
Speaker 2: whatever it is that you're trying to do your your job,
Speaker 2: your your business, passion and vision, and an unwillingness to
Speaker 2: quit will trump experience every single time, like every single time.
Speaker 1: In other words, the willingness to go to page page
Speaker 1: seventy six on Google Google.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the willingness to be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep learning and keep How else could
Speaker 2: I sit here if you asked me to explain the
Speaker 2: knowledge graph architecture and data taxonomies and the role that
Speaker 2: it's playing and driving efficiency for how governments make infrastructure decisions.
Speaker 2: How in the hell else would I be able to
Speaker 2: do that if it wasn't that I didn't go to
Speaker 2: school for that. But I definitely can explain it, and
Speaker 2: in fact, I can architect it.
Speaker 1: Right now, how much is your company worth?
Speaker 2: Our on paper valuations, so the closest thing that we
Speaker 2: would have to evaluation would put us at one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars. That's but it's primarily due to kind of
Speaker 2: the IP and technology and the things that we've done
Speaker 2: to kind of build up from there. That is like
Speaker 2: our current our current fundraising.
Speaker 3: Vehicle, what we have on there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not like you know, like a market
Speaker 2: IPO or anything. And with this market, who the fuck knows,
Speaker 2: Like things are kind of everyone's stuff is kind of
Speaker 2: going crazy. But that's the last, the last. The documentation
Speaker 2: that we have has like an evaluation cap at about
Speaker 2: one hundred million.
Speaker 1: That is staggering to me.
Speaker 2: It's not I don't I don't have that money, and
Speaker 2: like it's it's all it's all for the birds, right
Speaker 2: If it's not, it's not in bank accounts or anything.
Speaker 1: But you are managing, you have built and are managing
Speaker 1: organization that's important enough to be I mean that is, yes,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you handle the pressure of
Speaker 1: that or do you just not think about that part
Speaker 1: of it?
Speaker 2: I used to think about it a lot, like I
Speaker 2: used to tell people, because in twenty sixteen, we raised
Speaker 2: what was at the time, according to a least what
Speaker 2: was reported the largest Series A that a black woman
Speaker 2: had ever raised in history. We raised and it was
Speaker 2: only seven million dollars. And what was crazy is that
Speaker 2: that was the year that it was Actually I think
Speaker 2: the average amount that any founder had raised for a
Speaker 2: Series A was seven million, but the largest at the
Speaker 2: time that a blackman ever raised was seven million. And
Speaker 2: now that I know people who have done so much
Speaker 2: better than their series as, thank god. And so I
Speaker 2: remembered being like, whoa like having the moment that you're
Speaker 2: kind of talking about right now, just like.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, this is this is much more ya okay.
Speaker 2: And so I remember looking out the window of my
Speaker 2: apartment right when we did it, knowing how hard it was,
Speaker 2: and I remember telling myself, my goal here is not
Speaker 2: just to succeed with this company, because that's not going
Speaker 2: to make me happy.
Speaker 3: My goal would be twofold.
Speaker 2: I have to succeed without losing who I am, because
Speaker 2: I need my daughters to not have to have worked
Speaker 2: so hard to get to the same point. I don't
Speaker 2: have daughters yet, but I thought about them. I was like,
Speaker 2: this has to be something where I do this in
Speaker 2: the way where people can say I can do this
Speaker 2: because I see her. She is someone who reminds me
Speaker 2: of me. And then on the other side, I said,
Speaker 2: all of these people who took a chance on this
Speaker 2: black girl, I need to make sure that they do
Speaker 2: so well, that they make so much money from this,
Speaker 2: because the next time a black girl says, can you
Speaker 2: give me some money, I have an idea.
Speaker 3: I need them to not even think.
Speaker 1: But that's even more pressure. In a way, what you did,
Speaker 1: you just added more pressure to it.
Speaker 2: It is more pressure. But I think that you have
Speaker 2: different moments of the pressure, right, like you have different moments.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm gonna am I gonna fail these people,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fail my investors and what's going on. But again,
Speaker 2: it's hard not to feel despite all the way, it's
Speaker 2: hard not to feel a little lucky, like I get
Speaker 2: to stand here, the daughter of immigrants, blacketing black, like
Speaker 2: I took a DNA test and straight up, I'm ninety
Speaker 2: nine point nine percent black, like I am, just like
Speaker 2: does he like list don't get blacker?
Speaker 3: I walk into these rooms where no one, no one
Speaker 3: looks like me.
Speaker 2: And yes, it's so it's the work is so hard,
Speaker 2: but it also feels like it's almost like the flip side,
Speaker 2: like if you're a person of color, if you're just
Speaker 2: anyone who's underestimated, the flip side, it's almost like every
Speaker 2: day that you survive, you're building your superpowers, and it's almost.
Speaker 3: Like they're creating a monster they don't even know.
Speaker 2: I think that the number of years I've had to
Speaker 2: grow in this industry, the amount of time I spent
Speaker 2: in this room, the fact that I'm still in it,
Speaker 2: still standing, still pushing. Now, I think the next decade
Speaker 2: will be about building in a different way, but building
Speaker 2: on top of this incredibly lucky experience.
Speaker 3: Like how many people get to do something that.
Speaker 2: They love, do something that engages them, do something that
Speaker 2: they're passionate about, that pushes them, that makes them grow
Speaker 2: in a space that few people look like them. But
Speaker 2: by virtue of the fact that I look different and
Speaker 2: I'm existing in this space, I can innovate in my sleep.
Speaker 3: That feels lucky.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, Jessica.
Speaker 3: This was fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Jessica's energy is so infectious. I literally left this interview
Speaker 1: thinking I was gonna come up with the next great invention,
Speaker 1: which clearly hasn't happened, or I wouldn't be your talking
Speaker 1: to you. But I'm still working on it and we're
Speaker 1: gonna keep this show going. Started from the Bottom is
Speaker 1: produced by David Jah, edited by keyshow Williams, engineered by
Speaker 1: Ben Holliday, booked by Laura Morgan with production help from
Speaker 1: Lea Rose. The show is executive produced by Jacob Goldstein,
Speaker 1: who's not all of in the videos for Pushkin Industries.
Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Bent Holliday and David Jaw featuring
Speaker 1: Anthony Yaggs and Savanta Joe Lack. Listen to Started from
Speaker 1: the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you
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Speaker 1: podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.