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Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg sound on the Insiders, the influencers, the insides.

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Speaker 1: Biden has promised again and again he will unite the country.

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Speaker 1: Who do you think Biden has to watch in terms

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Speaker 1: of moderate defectors. Infrotrotructor has always been by pr defender

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound on on Bloomberg Radio. All right, I'm Jack

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Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick coming up on the show. Today. We're going to

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Speaker 1: get a call from Congressman Don Buyer of Virginia. He's

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Speaker 1: on the Ways and Means Committee, so we can talk

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Speaker 1: about the tax proposals from Biden that we heard about yesterday.

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Speaker 1: We've also got Kristen Haunt, a partner at Rock Solutions

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Speaker 1: and Old Blue Dog adviser, and of course we have

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor. We'll get into the Republican response,

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Speaker 1: of course to Biden's proposals, as well as all the

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Speaker 1: action today on police policy measures. Good day to talk

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Speaker 1: about tax measures because in a little bit we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get Congressman Don Buyer calling us. As I mentioned, he's

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Speaker 1: on the Ways and Means Committee. It's also the chair

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Speaker 1: of the Joint Economic Committee. Uh and he was in

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Speaker 1: the room last night first I want to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit with Rick and Kristen about what we heard,

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Speaker 1: and actually we have some sound, uh from that we

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Speaker 1: want to play from the President talking about some big

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Speaker 1: picture stuff on I guess the economic theories behind his

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Speaker 1: his proposal. Let's le's let's play that sound from Biden,

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Speaker 1: my fellow Americans. Trickled down. Trickled down economics has never worked.

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Speaker 1: There's time to grow the economy from the bottom, in

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Speaker 1: the middle out. So we heard a lot from Republicans

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Speaker 1: on a variety of issues. From from Tim Scott, of course,

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Speaker 1: but first let's let's hear from Rick Scott of Florida

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Speaker 1: Senator Rick Scott, who also happens to be the chair

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Speaker 1: of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, big name in terms

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Speaker 1: of looking ahead to two. Let's play the sound in

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Speaker 1: response from Rick Scott on some of the fiscal issues here,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is just a radical wish list. There's

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Speaker 1: free everything. I'm surprised it wasn't free cars and free houses.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, as government gets bigger, what happens

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Speaker 1: they control your life. This is called socialism. If they're

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Speaker 1: going to give you all the money, then they're going

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Speaker 1: to control exactly what you get, they'll control exactly what

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Speaker 1: health here. You get, everything you get, the child care

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Speaker 1: you get, they'll make all the decisions for you. Is

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Speaker 1: pure socialism. It's never worked anywhere. And what didn't he

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Speaker 1: talk about, Oh, how he's going to pay for it? Alright,

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask Rick Davis, you know, Rick,

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Speaker 1: you're you're a good person to have on here as

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Speaker 1: a long time John McCain adviser, on that quote from

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Speaker 1: Biden getting into the philosophical stuff, saying that this is, uh,

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Speaker 1: this is sort of the death of trickle down. But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious if you see as much significance to Biden's proposals.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about six trillion dollars overall, you include the stimulus, uh,

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure proposal, and this American family's plan. And do

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Speaker 1: you really think he's reinventing the wheel here in terms

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Speaker 1: of the president's views on economics or is he overstating

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Speaker 1: it a little bit there? You know, it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of both. I mean, it actually harkened back to

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Speaker 1: my days. I've spent a lot of time in the

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Speaker 1: Reagan administration, including the Reagan White House, and this was

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Speaker 1: the argument against Ronald Reagan's economic policies trickled down. That's

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Speaker 1: awful stuff. You know, you're gonna cut the taxes and

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Speaker 1: the government's gonna lose money. And and of course it

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Speaker 1: was all based on uh, supply side economics in in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, that was sort of Republican orthodoxy, and

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Speaker 1: there was a place somewhere where you could lower taxes

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Speaker 1: to the point where you'd actually increase tax revenue. And

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Speaker 1: that's what really sparked the the economic growth and expansion

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. So it worked then. So it's

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Speaker 1: not exactly accurate to say that quote trickled down, which

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Speaker 1: was the negative impression you wanted to leave with people around.

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Speaker 1: Supply side did never work. Um. But like you're right though, Jack,

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Speaker 1: this is a major expansion even of democratic philosophy around

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Speaker 1: taxes and spending. Um. You know, he's redefining the social

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Speaker 1: safety net by putting government guarantees, federal guarantees on childcare, preschool, college.

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Speaker 1: We've never seen that kind of expansion, you know, increasing

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Speaker 1: the federal role in picking winners and losers. And infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: We all agree we want infrastructure, but do we have

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Speaker 1: to put our thumb on the balance when we say

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Speaker 1: it's going to be this kind of infrastructure, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: pick companies that will build a certain kind of ev

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Speaker 1: UM charging stations and things like that. UM, So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's more reminiscent of the Great Society of of

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Speaker 1: of of of President Johnson and the New Deal of FDR.

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Speaker 1: These were huge social reorganization programs that actually changed the

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Speaker 1: course of American how it functions. I think that's where

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Speaker 1: Biden is reaching, right. I want to keep talking to

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Speaker 1: you a little bit later about this, but I understand

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Speaker 1: we have a Congressman Don Buyer on with us who

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Speaker 1: was in the room yesterday. Congressman, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. I gotta ask. I was scrolling on Twitter

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Speaker 1: while I watched yesterday, and it sounds like a lot

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Speaker 1: of people think maybe Ted Cruz fell asleep. Did you

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Speaker 1: stay awake the whole time? I did stay awake the

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Speaker 1: whole time. I wasn't bored at all. What's it like

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Speaker 1: in there when you've got two hundred people in a

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Speaker 1: room that I understand would usually have like six hundred people.

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Speaker 1: What's the vibe? D It was a little spooky, Actually,

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Speaker 1: it was more like normally us on the day when

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Speaker 1: you go to speak and you're all nervous and your

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Speaker 1: real life. There's only seven people in the room, and

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Speaker 1: you hope somebody's on c SPAN. But it was weird.

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Speaker 1: Only only Chief Justice Roberts, one member of the Diplomatic Corps,

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Speaker 1: only General Millie, So it was pretty different. I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you a practical question. Spooky is a good word,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I would can only imagine, But I

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Speaker 1: have to ask when we're looking through this list of

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Speaker 1: everything Biden wants, I'm thinking of both the infrastructure bill

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Speaker 1: you're working on and uh, the family's plan. Realistically, when

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Speaker 1: you ask somebody like Bernie Sanders, he says, look, we

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Speaker 1: should just go with the wreck conciliation route. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to get a whole bipartisan package. You're you're on

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Speaker 1: ways and means, you're familiar with the tax measures Biden wants.

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Speaker 1: Do you think, realistically, Democrats are just going to have

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Speaker 1: to do this via reconciliation. Um. Yes, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to close the door. I was pleased last night that

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Speaker 1: the President did a kind shout out to you know,

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Speaker 1: Shelley Capitau and those Republicans who brought a plan to him. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I think you could. On the spending side, you know,

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Speaker 1: the presidents at two point five trillion Shelley capita, and

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Speaker 1: the Republicans are like six. That's a big gap. But

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Speaker 1: if you imagine something in between that could you know,

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Speaker 1: possibly work. What's harder to imagine is the Republicans going

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Speaker 1: along with any of the proposed tax increases that that

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Speaker 1: the President mentioned, and that sort of forces you towards reconciliation.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly where I was headed, Congressman. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a two good shout outs last night to Republicans

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Speaker 1: by the President Shelley Moore cap of those program and

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Speaker 1: and on prison reform are not prison reform, police reform,

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Speaker 1: you know, by Tim Scott who later gave the Republican

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Speaker 1: response to that and actually recognize that. So I think

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Speaker 1: that the big question, especially from a raising revenue point

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Speaker 1: of view, as you say, you know, there's some trading

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Speaker 1: range that actually could be hopeful with a bipartisan solution

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Speaker 1: on what I guess we're calling hard infrastructure or something

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Speaker 1: like that. But but but to get there, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need to raise the revenue for it. And and I

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Speaker 1: guess my question is you've been in conversations already around

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Speaker 1: this tax plan. Uh, where do you see the common ground?

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Speaker 1: There is there a part of what we heard last night,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically four trillion dollars of revenue raising. You

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Speaker 1: know that you think could actually find some common ground. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let me give a couple of examples. Um, the easiest

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Speaker 1: thing is addressing the shortfalls in reported business income, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole nose and that personal income like seven percent

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Speaker 1: of it gets reported to the i r S, but

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Speaker 1: maybe only fifty five or sixty percent of business income.

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of taxes that are actually

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Speaker 1: do you don't have to raise any rates. You just

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Speaker 1: need to um fund the i r S in a

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Speaker 1: much more aggressive fashion to take care of it. As

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Speaker 1: we know, it's sort of become part of the Zeitgey said.

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Speaker 1: The most of the i r S audits are of

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Speaker 1: poor people making cheating on earned income tax credit in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: you know, rather than the big money from corporations that

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Speaker 1: are avoiding it. And then you would hope that that

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Speaker 1: was bipartisan, right, I mean you you don't notice that

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Speaker 1: Republicans are out there saying, oh, no, we were for

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Speaker 1: the tax cheats. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a hard,

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Speaker 1: hard case to make. Yeah, I think we all want fairness.

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Speaker 1: We're all upset by unfairness. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the argument about UM is more about, hey, the the

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Speaker 1: effective rate with seven as as the President mentioned fifty

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Speaker 1: five and the largest corporate since paid zero. Now, some

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Speaker 1: of that was it wasn't necessarily cheating. You know that

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Speaker 1: the Tax Jobs Acts that you could have instantaneous deduction

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Speaker 1: of long term capital expenses. You know, UM, that's how

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Speaker 1: that works. But there are ways to tighten it up

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Speaker 1: so that there is a fair tax coming from almost

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Speaker 1: all corporations. Congress, and I wanted to ask on this

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Speaker 1: capital gains tax issue. Uh. It was it was big,

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Speaker 1: big news last week. And I understand the proposal from Biden. Now,

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Speaker 1: currently there's a prohibition on taxing capital gains at death. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and the proposal now from Biden is to do away

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Speaker 1: with that prohibition. I'm curious, do you do you have

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Speaker 1: any issues with that? Where do you stand on that?

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Speaker 1: And should there be exemptions there? I almost certainly think

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Speaker 1: there should be exemptions. You think about, you know, passing

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Speaker 1: a house down within the family. UM, if if you

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Speaker 1: have a complete step up in basis, and that house

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Speaker 1: the mom and dad lived in for forty years might

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Speaker 1: not even be affordable after the taxes are paid. So

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Speaker 1: I think you also have to put this in the

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Speaker 1: context of his saying no tax increases at all for

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Speaker 1: families making less than four hundred dollars a year, and

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Speaker 1: that's most American families. Um, but it's you have to

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Speaker 1: struggle to step up in basis, and the capital gains

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Speaker 1: tax are probably I would say that the least worked

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Speaker 1: out parts of his plan because you as we've seen

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Speaker 1: in you know that the New York newspapers the last

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Speaker 1: couple of days, there could be unintended consequences. I'm including

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Speaker 1: all kinds of capital gains being captured this year before

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Speaker 1: a tax increase kicked in. And what also are are

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Speaker 1: the implications of just freezing investments where you won't turn

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Speaker 1: them over because you're looking at a thirty nine point

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Speaker 1: six tax. I think it's it's a lot still to

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Speaker 1: be worked out. And one of the things that the

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Speaker 1: responsibles to be able in the ways of means is

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Speaker 1: thinking about the positive consequences and the and attend the

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Speaker 1: consequences of these are skills, right Congressman, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. Great to have a ways and

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Speaker 1: means guy on on the show at a time like this,

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. That was Congressman Don Buyer, Democrat from Virginia,

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Speaker 1: coming up. We're gonna keep talking about some of these

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Speaker 1: tax issues, Biden's big plans, what Republicans have to say

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Speaker 1: about it. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound on on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick along

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Speaker 1: with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. I've also got Kristen

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Speaker 1: Hahn here, a Democratic strategist, a former Blue Dog Coalition

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Speaker 1: communications director, and a partner at Rock Solutions. Chris, and

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you on here with us

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Speaker 1: today because just earlier we were talking about the the big,

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Speaker 1: grandiose language that President Biden used about the end of

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Speaker 1: trickle down economics from a blue Dog perspective, From someone

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Speaker 1: who understands that, I'm curious what you think about how

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Speaker 1: Yesterday's speech and the economics behind it are going to

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Speaker 1: play with the moderate Democrats who seem so pivotal in Congress,

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Speaker 1: especially the Senate, but also the House. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you know the margins are so thin in the House

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Speaker 1: that everybody plays a role on both sides of the Capitol.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think in speaking with another than

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Speaker 1: following the speech, you know, the president's words were aspirational

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Speaker 1: and that's his job. And UM, I think they appreciated

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Speaker 1: that and appreciated a lot of the things that he

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Speaker 1: wants to do. UM. You know, with the with the

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Speaker 1: first COVID relief package, there was a real sense of

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Speaker 1: urgency among the whole caucus, including the moderate uh, those listeners,

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Speaker 1: that we need to get something done. And if Republicans

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Speaker 1: weren't going to come to the table um in a

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Speaker 1: in a big way, then we just needed to do

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Speaker 1: it through reconciliation. I think going forward it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit different. Um. They have been delivered ring the message

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Speaker 1: to both the White House and to their own leadership. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the members of the House that

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Speaker 1: are in the middle that you know, we need to

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Speaker 1: come together. We cannot pass anything. We should not pass

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Speaker 1: anything that cannot pass the Senate. UM. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: really important, an important thing to note because you know

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Speaker 1: that there's it's a lot more difficult to get things

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Speaker 1: through the Senate backn uh. You know, ten years ago

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Speaker 1: when the Democrats held the majority, they would pass these

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Speaker 1: bills as like they would call them show votes. Let's

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Speaker 1: show the Senate that we've got you know, we can

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Speaker 1: pass these big, bold, big bold things. And um, that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily going to happen this time around. People really

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Speaker 1: want to come together their discussions between the moderates on

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Speaker 1: the House side and the Senate side about what's in

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Speaker 1: the realm of the possible. And there's definitely a desire

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Speaker 1: to work across the aisle. Yeah, I'm curious about why

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Speaker 1: that is. It seems like there's some leadership from House moderates. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we talked so much about Joe Mansion in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Um and I you know, I kind of chuckled when

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Speaker 1: I even said the words blue dogs. It seems like

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Speaker 1: this is more coming less coming from blue dogs these days.

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Speaker 1: Then who are you thinking of the problem solvers caucus?

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Speaker 1: Is that? Who is kind of the critical House members

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Speaker 1: these days? I I would, I mean, they're definitely playing

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Speaker 1: a role in there. They have put together ideas that

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Speaker 1: are constructive. Um, I would actually look at um uh.

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Speaker 1: If I have to get an example, a very specific

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Speaker 1: member who's played a major role in UH getting things

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Speaker 1: to the floor and making sure that you have the

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Speaker 1: moderate votes there and holding the votes in its Congresswoman

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Murphy from Florida. UM, she's both the new DEM

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Speaker 1: and she's the leader of the Blue Dogs, and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of emerged at this really powerful force because she's

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Speaker 1: willing to come to the table. She has good relationships

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Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle UM and has played

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Speaker 1: a role behind the scene, not just you know, screaming

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Speaker 1: loudly in the press about things, but really UM, working

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Speaker 1: with with both sides. So I think she's going to

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Speaker 1: be really critical UM as somebody that you might not

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Speaker 1: think of, UM, you know, in in cultivating UM discussions

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Speaker 1: that could you know, breaks forth by Parson compromise. Right

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Speaker 1: by the way, Rick, I want to kind of double

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Speaker 1: back on what we were talking about. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: you you mentioned earlier Biden is pushing hard, but it

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Speaker 1: sounds like you're you're not totally convinced that this is

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Speaker 1: some revolution in economic theory behind the president or or

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Speaker 1: where what do you see as the significance of of

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Speaker 1: Biden in this big, big language, UH, in terms of

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Speaker 1: I mean he is going further than you know Obama.

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Speaker 1: He seems to be using this crisis as a uh

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Speaker 1: sort of as a tool for something bigger. Right. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to underestimate the grab. I mean you

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Speaker 1: know that that was a big, big plan. I mean

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Speaker 1: he's been saying, you know, since he was a candidate

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Speaker 1: that he thought that we needed to go big and

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Speaker 1: and and you have to go back to really significant,

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Speaker 1: uh culture changing, culture shifting moves by other presidents in

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Speaker 1: our history to see this kind of effort to try

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Speaker 1: and use the budget, the policy realm to really create

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Speaker 1: a lot of systemic shift and and and and especially

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Speaker 1: focused around the social safety net. Right. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: we talk a lot about infrastructure, relative common ground on

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Speaker 1: that probably the easiest thing to get done in a

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Speaker 1: bipartisan fashion. But then when you look at the other

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Speaker 1: three trillion dollars worth of spending recommendations that the Biden

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Speaker 1: White House has put forward, that is a substantial shift

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Speaker 1: in how we manage our economy, especially around the social

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Speaker 1: safety net. In America. We are starting to now say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: the government's going to cover your expenses for U pre k,

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Speaker 1: We're going to cover your college expenses for the first

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Speaker 1: two years. We're going to you know, decide what goes

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Speaker 1: into that infrastructure, whether it's green or whether it's you know, tradition,

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Speaker 1: all and and and and none of these things in

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Speaker 1: a in a microcosm is significantly different than what we've

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Speaker 1: seen in the past. But the totality of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the huge amount of spending after the first year

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Speaker 1: in office, he'll have committed if he gets everything he wants,

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Speaker 1: six trillion dollars of spending, and that is monumental. We

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Speaker 1: got we gotta take a quick break. But is that

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Speaker 1: an m m T thing, do you think? Or am

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Speaker 1: I backing into an MMT discussion for no good reason?

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Speaker 1: You could be I will avoid that. Maybe it's a

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Speaker 1: greater volume of the same kind of theories rather than

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Speaker 1: a real sort of revolution. But we're gonna keep talking

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Speaker 1: about more the practical side, you know. I I saw

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Speaker 1: Susan Collins of Maine also complaining about this looks like

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Speaker 1: four trillion dollars in spending. Let's talk about that. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Tim Scott's response last night. Uh, we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that very soon. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. I'm here with Bloomberg Polity six contributor

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis. I've also got Kristen Hahn, who's a partner

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Speaker 1: at Rock Solutions, on the line, and i want to

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Speaker 1: talk about Senator Tim Scott's rebuttal yesterday. He's a Republican

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Speaker 1: from South Carolina, a rising star in Republican politics. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people would say, who had the

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Speaker 1: daunting job of picking out all of the things in

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Speaker 1: Biden's plan to cross an ex thro Let's let's listen

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Speaker 1: to the sound we have from him. Lesson six percent.

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Speaker 1: The President's plan goes the roads and bridges. It's a

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Speaker 1: liberal wish list of big government waste plus the biggest

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Speaker 1: job killing tax hikes in a generation. Experts say, what

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Speaker 1: all is said and done, it would lower wages of

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Speaker 1: the average American worker and shrink our economy. I also

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Speaker 1: heard from Senator Susan Collins, obviously a critical moderate in

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Speaker 1: the Senate of Maine, who said earlier today talking to reporter,

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Speaker 1: it appears to be four trillion dollars in spending, and

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Speaker 1: I'm worried it would ignite inflation. So we're hearing the

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Speaker 1: big spending talk the inflation warnings from Republicans. I'm here

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Speaker 1: with as I said, Rick Davis, Rick tell me this

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Speaker 1: is like the Republican greatest hits that they're replaying. But

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Speaker 1: I have to say, under the past Republican administration, as

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Speaker 1: many Democrats have pointed out, you know, the deficit got

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Speaker 1: up to I think it was nine five billion just

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Speaker 1: to have a trillion before the pandemic. Does this stuff

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Speaker 1: work now after what we saw the last four years?

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I think it's a real question is to credibility, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you talk about attacks and spend um administration

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Speaker 1: Under Donald Trump, he was a tax cut and spend

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Speaker 1: anyway uh kind of president, and so that was kind

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Speaker 1: of a new model we weren't used to, arguably like

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Speaker 1: George Bush, but you know, his his his administration, uh

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Speaker 1: did not adhere to conservative economic policies and and and

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Speaker 1: added enormously to the federal debt. So we haven't had

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Speaker 1: a run lately of conservative economic ideas within the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: which I think actually led to a candidacy like Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: since we didn't seem to care and uh. And so

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Speaker 1: now everyone's sort of snapping back. I mean literally there's

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Speaker 1: whiplash in the United States Senate and Republican Caucus everywhere

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Speaker 1: you go. Uh, these guys sound more like Phil Graham,

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Speaker 1: h Ronald Reagan, people like that who really were deficit hawks,

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Speaker 1: spending hawks. Um, uh, you know, tax hawks and uh.

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Speaker 1: And I was actually a little surprised, frankly that that um,

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Speaker 1: Senator Scott didn't spend more time in the in the

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Speaker 1: Republican rebuttal to the speech last night talking more about

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Speaker 1: economic policy. Frankly, a third of the speech was on race,

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Speaker 1: and to be honest, Republicans talking about race is a

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Speaker 1: dead end in my view politically. Well, I want to

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Speaker 1: ask him more about that, because I it stood out

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Speaker 1: to me. You know, we played the clip on infrastr sure,

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Speaker 1: but that he talked a little about infrastructure, He talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about race and the policing bill. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: talked about schools. That's a you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: something Republicans might see as a winner is school reopenings. Um,

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Speaker 1: what does this mean for two in terms of you know, this,

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Speaker 1: this could have been a chance to sort of define

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Speaker 1: where the party is going. But I got the sense

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Speaker 1: maybe they were putting Tim Scott out there as a

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Speaker 1: person they're looking to rather than a series of politics.

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Speaker 1: What do they have an answer in terms of sort

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Speaker 1: of defining the party, do you think, Rick, Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: I think honestly little both, Right. I mean, Tim Scott's

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Speaker 1: a very good guy. He's a respected member of the

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Speaker 1: Repulican Caucus in the United States Senate and uh and

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Speaker 1: and whether he has any real ambitions politically beyond where

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Speaker 1: he is today, I would be surprised. But he is

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Speaker 1: a good spokesman, and he did a good job last night.

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Speaker 1: But I questioned the substance, right, I mean, if there's

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Speaker 1: a Republican response to the Biden proposal, it certainly has

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Speaker 1: a lot to do with how we go about accumulating

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Speaker 1: four billion dollars to spend on the policies that he

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Speaker 1: was promoting. And and I think there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of holes, even as Don Buyer mentioned earlier in our

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Speaker 1: segment on things like the capital of the gains at

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Speaker 1: death um, that could have been very you know, compelling

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Speaker 1: arguments related to this speech that the Republicans, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: who put this speech together for Tim Scott, decided not

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Speaker 1: to use. Yeah, I'm curious, So this headline come up

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Speaker 1: on the terminal earlier. Today, US recovery gains steam as

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Speaker 1: spending fuel six point four percent GDP growth. Spending fueling

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Speaker 1: that you know who who's spending it. Well, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of spending proposals from Biden. Kristen. Do you think

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Speaker 1: when we see what might be sort of an inevitable

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Speaker 1: snap back from this recession, is the credit going to

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Speaker 1: go to Biden and Republicans doing anything to change that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's it's about how we message

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Speaker 1: to the American people. So far. UM. You know, the

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Speaker 1: Democrats have done a good job of talking about the

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Speaker 1: COVID relief package, what it provided to people. I think

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Speaker 1: people are feeling the effects of that. The Republicans are

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Speaker 1: very good and so when I saw the response last

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Speaker 1: night from the Senator, UM, it's very interesting to me because, UM,

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Speaker 1: it tells me that the Republicans are seeing data and

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Speaker 1: we are too, by the way that um, you know,

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Speaker 1: an internal polls that which are not always right, but

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Speaker 1: that you know, going back to school, things that are

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Speaker 1: very personal to people or what matters right now. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, it didn't surprise me that he

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Speaker 1: didn't focus so much on that. You know, the the

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Speaker 1: debt and deficit in the spending that goes in and

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Speaker 1: out of popularity with the American public. We've came that

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Speaker 1: over the years. Um. You know, I remember the first

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Speaker 1: special release I put out, um when I became the

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Speaker 1: official Blue Doogs spokesperson, oh gosh in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: was just you know, our fury over the seven trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar set. So you know, and and so people care

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Speaker 1: about that sometimes, you know, but in order to get

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Speaker 1: our spending at our control. Um. You know, everybody likes

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Speaker 1: the point fingers. Everybody likes to blame the other side,

429
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like a poppon everybody's houses because

430
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: it's gonna take mandatory um, you know, controls all mandatory

431
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: spending and discretionary spending and tax cut costs money, um,

432
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: you know, say they add to the Ledger. So you know,

433
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's going to be an interesting

434
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: path forward. Like I said, you know, he's done a

435
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: lot of work in a in a five person fashion

436
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: in some ways, you know, but well, yeah, that's that's

437
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: gonna be interesting. I was surprised Tim Scott did not

438
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: raised in any significant way the Border Republican talking so

439
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: much about the border and what they call a crisis

440
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: at the border didn't feature in two Tim Scott's rebuttal

441
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: at all coming up. I want to talk about this

442
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: police bill that Tim Scott is working on. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick.

443
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound on on Bloomberg Radio.

444
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. I'm here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick

445
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: Davis and Kristen on a partner at Rock Solutions. One

446
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: really important part I think of Joe Biden's speech yesterday

447
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: for the legislative process, especially here in Washington, was giving

448
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: a deadline, a May deadline for this police reform bill

449
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: that Democrats and a number of Republicans seem interested in. Uh.

450
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: We heard a little from Speaker of the House Nancy

451
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: Pelosi on this. Let's play sound from her. We will

452
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: bring it to for when we are ready, and we'll

453
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: be ready when we have a good, strong, bipartisan bill. Yikes,

454
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: that's that doesn't sound like she's that happy to get

455
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: a deadline from the president. I really am curious, especially

456
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: because that's like four weeks away. That's not that far. Kristen,

457
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: what do you think it does to lawmakers? Both in

458
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: the legislative process, and politically, when you've got a president

459
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: coming in and saying get this done in the next

460
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: few weeks. I mean, I think it's he's saying that

461
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: when you get to the legislative process. You know, he

462
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: can say that. But honestly, the speaker's right, and she's

463
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: very good at it. And if she says she wants

464
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: to buy partisan bill, then then that's more than likely

465
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. But she's not going to work

466
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: on that timeline. Um, So you know she doesn't bring

467
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 1: bills before. Um, I've only seen it once or twice

468
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: that that don't actually make it off the House for

469
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: And if she wants to buy partisan bill, then um,

470
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully that's what can happen. But I don't

471
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: put too much weight into that specific deadline that the president. Yeah,

472
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: I have to ask. I don't know if we have

473
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: a Latin translator here, but there's a lot of talk today.

474
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: Do either if you speak Latin, Kristen Rick, do you

475
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: know any Latin? Not? When I'm sober, I wish I

476
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: took I took um six years of Latin, but I'm

477
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: next years. Okay, what is what is respond? At superior.

478
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: Do you know that one? UM, I will probably watch this,

479
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna ahead it. According to UH the research

480
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: I did. I spent my afternoon learning Latin. Uh. Senator

481
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: Sheldon white House brought this up. That means let the

482
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: master answer. I think you know in English, we've just

483
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: been using the phrase qualified immunity. But this is sort

484
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: of the central issue here with this police bill that

485
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: they're working on that Tim Scott is working on. Corey

486
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: Booker is involved, and the question appears to be how

487
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: much personal liability is involved when a police officer individually

488
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: does wrong. Obviously, you know we're talking about the George

489
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: Floyd death in the case of killing, but how much

490
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: responsibility goes to the individual officer and how much goes

491
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: to their superiors or or the department itself. Rick, I'm

492
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: curious how much possibility you see just in the two

493
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: sides coming together on this issue, in such a politicized

494
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: issue a year after the death of George Floyd. Do

495
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: you see much possibility and a sort of a compromise

496
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: on an issue like that. Yeah, Senator Scott's partner in

497
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: crime on this, Lindsay Graham, who you know, just finished

498
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: his tour duty as the chairman of the Judiciary Committee

499
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: in the Senate. UM, you know, has made a big

500
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: deal about this exposure, uh legal exposure for police versus

501
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: the department, and the comments coming out of the meetings today,

502
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: especially with the families, UM and the advocates, members of

503
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: George Floyd family and advocates met with these senators Um Graham,

504
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: Scott Booker, Karen Bass in the House and and and

505
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: it sounded like they could find room in the legislation

506
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: to cover these legal issues the way the families would

507
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: want them to. And if they can satisfy the families,

508
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: then I think they've got a deal. And if and

509
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: if Graham and Scott go out into the Republican caucus

510
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: and say, you know, this is something we gotta be for,

511
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: they'll pick up some other votes that way too. So

512
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: I do think it's exactly what Christens said. I mean,

513
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: if if they can get a bill out of these guys,

514
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: then then and only then probably the Speaker can get

515
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: it run through the House. Yeah. I understand there's some

516
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: skepticism among more progressive members about giving too much up

517
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: in terms of accountability of an individual police officer, but

518
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting point Rick about you know, if

519
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: you if you win over the people who have become

520
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: the face of this the family of George Floyd, be

521
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: pretty hard for Democrats to turn down an offer. Christen,

522
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: what do you make of that? Do you do you

523
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: think Democrats are in a position where they have to

524
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: show something How how likely do you think we are

525
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: to see some of the more hardline Democrats become willing

526
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: to compromise. Yeah, I mean, I think I would agree

527
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: with that said um with the Democratic Caucus. When if

528
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: you're going to bring a truly bipartisan bill that can

529
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: pass the Senate to the floor, you're necessarily going to

530
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: lose some of the members on the far left. But

531
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: if you have the support of the family, you know this,

532
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of Democrats who

533
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: are going to one that come to the table. You know,

534
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: all of the Democrats in the House voted um to

535
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: get rid of qualified immunity previously. But I think that

536
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: they'd be willing that there's a reasonable compromise on the

537
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: issue to pass something off of the House for you know,

538
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: I noticed there's another quote today from Dick durban Uh

539
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: talking about, in his words, a positive spirit in the room,

540
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: and I it did kind of strike me between the

541
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: bipartisan talks on this policing issue and the positive feedback

542
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: we've heard from Shelley Moore Capital and those types UM

543
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: on infrastructure. Am I being Pollyanna ishue if I think

544
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: this is a surprising amount of bipartisan cooperation for you.

545
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: You listen to Republicans talk about how Biden has gone

546
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: back on his word on unity. UM, But I mean,

547
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: we're we're why ching a legislative process go forth. Maybe

548
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: it falls apart, but Christen, I'm am I being naive

549
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: to say it sounds like Durban's right when he says

550
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: that it's sort of a positive spirit on Capitol Hill. Yeah,

551
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's probably somewhere in the middle. UM.

552
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: But you know Durban generally speaks what he sees, and

553
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: so you know that can change. But you know, you

554
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: also saw the President giving a shout out, UM. You

555
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: know the bipartisan negotiations UM that are going on. I

556
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: think with infrastructure, there are always you know, we and

557
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, with all due respect to UM, the press,

558
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: a lot of conflict based coverage always covers where people

559
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: are fighting behind the scenes. UM. There are. There are

560
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: significant talks going on UM around infrastructure. However you define

561
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: it UM not just roads and bridges, but UM and

562
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: and other items. So you know, I'm encouraged by UM

563
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 1: the whips uh comments, and I don't think they're they're unsounded.

564
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: He is the whip. By the way, we also heard

565
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: from Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, on this policing issue, uh,

566
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: similar words to Pelosi saying we need a strong, strong bill.

567
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessarily appreciated by lawmakers when when

568
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: the president gives you a deadline and says, uh, you know,

569
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: in the next few weeks, get to get something done.

570
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: By the way, I want to switch topic a little bit.

571
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Just one of my favorite topics coming up. We're bringing

572
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: back earmarks in Congress. Not we, they, uh, lawmakers are

573
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: are bringing back earmarks and actually tomorrow is the deadline

574
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: for appropriations. I'm I'm very curious, especially Kristen, haven't you

575
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: having worked with blue dogs, the moderates who have an

576
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: interest in legislating and compromising. There's all this talk about

577
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: if you bring back a transparent earmark process, people get along.

578
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: It's not as supposed to be a bribe but it's

579
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: supposed to encourage people to bring something home. Do you

580
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: think there's actually a practical effect on legislating with the

581
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: return to earmarks? Is this actually helped people get along? Yes,

582
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean a resounding yes. I mean I was in

583
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: the House when we still had earmarks. When members, um,

584
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: they learn about each other's district when they are the ones,

585
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not new money. This is just

586
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: how do you spend the money and who's in charge

587
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: of figuring it out? And when the members have to

588
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: work together to figure out, they're talking on the floor,

589
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: they're they're talking to each other about what's important to

590
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: my district, it necessarily helps them work go And then

591
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: just practically speaking, when you include these things in different bills,

592
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: you know there's an incentive there, um for them to

593
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: work together. So I think, you know, the earmark has

594
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: been a political punching bag for way too long, and um,

595
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to see I come back. So this

596
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: is supposed to be you know, one percent of discretionary

597
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: funding out of all the money that the federal government spends.

598
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: It is limited to fifteen billion. Although I'm curious if

599
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: they're going to just be embarrassments um Rick, what do

600
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: you think, especially, I know there are going to be

601
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: servatives who hit Democrats on this for bringing back earmarks.

602
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: How much political risk do you see in this? Yeah?

603
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: I have to channel my old boss John McCain on earmarks.

604
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: He'll come back and haunt me for life if I don't.

605
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, Bridges to Nowhere didn't come out of nowhere, right?

606
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you got a two trillion dollar

607
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: infrastructure bill and you're gonna have earmarks? Wow, what's that

608
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: all about? You're gonna have shipbuilding in Utah? I mean

609
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing that really promotes bad behavior fiscally. Now,

610
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: does it mean you can get more things done in

611
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: a legislation? Sure? But like, what are we trying to

612
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: do pass bad bills? Or are we trying to save

613
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: taxpayer money? And I think you've gotta always side on

614
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: saving taxpayer money. Don't tell that to Don Young of Alaska.

615
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: His list of requested earmarks came out, Uh, and I

616
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: noticed he requested far more than even the chairman of

617
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Uh. And that's the guy

618
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: who pushed the so called bridge to nowhere. He would

619
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: fight us on on calling it a bridge to nowhere.

620
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: But that's that's that's something for us to look forward to. More. Guys,

621
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. I've been joined

622
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: by Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor Kristin Hahn, who's a

623
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: partner at Rock Solutions. Thanks again to Congress to UH

624
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: Congressman Don Buyer, Democrat of Virginia. UH. And we'll see

625
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: what happens with with earmarks there and if there is

626
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: indeed ship building in Utah as as Rick described it, again,

627
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: big news on police policy as well as the Republican

628
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: pushback to Biden's plans that the enunciated yesterday. But that

629
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg