1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: And this is stuff you should know. The Finders Keepers 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Edition Losers Weepers. Yeah, I know, so, Chuck. This is like, 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: this is an actual thing. It's not just like a 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: child's fantasy. Like this is law in some places. And 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: while it doesn't actually state losers weepers, I think it's implied. 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: It's implicit in the law where the finders the keeper, 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: but you lost it, so you're legally obligated to weep 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: in public. Yeah. And it's funny reading through some of 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: these examples. It sounds like playground stuff. I'll say that 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: I'll get to some of these. Some of these examples, though, 14 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, that's not your person, Like, come on, 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: give it up. Did you say that out loud to yourself? 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: I did a couple of these. I was like, man, seriously, man, 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: that's not yours, that's not yours. I'm just have a 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: big justice thing, you know, So yeah, me too. It's 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: when I see people acting like a big baby in 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: saying like this money I found in my wall is mine? Like, no, 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: it's not. Well, you would be a great arbitrator, Yeah, 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: get out of here, it's not. You'd be like, my 23 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: ruling is this man that's not yours? Give it up. Uh. 24 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: But no, let's start with John and Mary not their 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: real names. No, No, I guess that's worth pointing out. 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: These are anonymous, an anonymous husband and wife team from 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: nor caw Yeah, from Ryan, California. And they are anonymous 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: because they didn't want a lot of attention and they 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: are still anonymous. We'll call him John and Mary and 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: they are famous. Uh. Well, I guess they're not famous, 31 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: but their cases a little famous because they found ten 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: million dollars and our you know what could be ten 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: million dollars in rare gold coins buried on their property 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: that they own on a walk and it's known as 35 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: the saddle Ridge Horde. Uh. In February two thirteen, they 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: found this, uh, these gold coins that no one knows 37 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: who they belonged to, how they got buried there, but 38 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: they found them and took a long time sort of 39 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: coming out with this. They did about as smart as 40 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: you possibly can. Yeah, they didn't rush to the press 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: or anything and say, look what we found. Uh. They 42 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: took their time because I think they rightfully knew that 43 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: they were onto something pretty special. Yeah. So they were 44 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: out walking on on their property put that away for 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: later with their dog, and they noticed, I guess, the 46 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: side of a can coming out of the ground, and 47 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: they went and dug it out, and sure enough, there 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: was a bunch of gold coins in there. Whenever you 49 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: see a can coming out of the ground, I mean, 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: that's your hope and wish that it's going to be 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: filled with old coins or jewels or something, right, But 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: it never happens. And it actually happened to these people. 53 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: And and so they went back again and again and again, 54 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: and they ended up pulling eight cans filled with gold coins, 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: pure gold coins, out of the ground on their property. 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: And it became very apparent, based on the state of 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: preservation of the cans and the dates of the coins 58 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: in the cans, that somebody had buried this no more 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: recently than the very beginning of the twentieth century, and 60 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: probably sometime in the late nineteenth century. Yeah, and here's 61 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: a hint. If you ever happened to unearthed aid whatever 62 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: a can or a glass jar or something full of 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: money buried on your property. Just keep digging that maybe it, 64 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: but maybe not. Yeah, I wondered, like what kind of 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: excavation they undertook points once they were like, oh there's 66 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: more there. I'm quite sure they cleared that ground. It's 67 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: it's it's verified. There's no more cans. So if you're 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: talking actual money, the face value, it's about twenty seven grand. 69 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: But because these are rare fines in great, great condition, 70 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: most of most of these coins, um, they're thinking that 71 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: it could be worth as many as as much as 72 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: ten million bucks. So they're gonna sell it. Well, they 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: have been and donate some of this money. M and um, 74 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: you know that it's nice that they're they're donating some 75 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: of it, but it really sort of um opens up 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: this question of hey, what does the law say about 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: finding something period much less like on my property rights? 78 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: The finders keepers law basically is what you're talking about, 79 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: And that's really what it's called in case laws find 80 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: the finders finders keepers laws or rules. That's right. So, um, 81 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: there was a lot going on here. These guys, John 82 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: and Mary owned the land that these coins were found, 83 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: Dawn and that was a huge mark in their favorite um. 84 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: But there in the United States, it really depends on 85 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: what state you're in, what court you go to, what 86 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: judge you happen to pull the case lawn is so 87 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: all over the place and so piecemeal that it's it's 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: really almost the luck of the draw. And there are 89 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: more things that you can do to compound your case 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: to make it more likely that the the thing is 91 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: is yours. But really it comes down to who has 92 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: the best claim on whatever is found. Yeah, like somebody 93 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: could come forward still probably or could have come forward 94 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: with John and Mary and said, wait a minute, that 95 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: was my great great grand Pappy Clark's land, and I'm 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: sure he did not intend to clark you those gold coins, right, Uh, So, 97 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: like we actually should have a claim as his family, 98 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: um to to to take this stuff from you, and 99 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: like that could go that could very legitimately go to 100 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: court to be decided by a judge. And again, like 101 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: you said, it's who has the more legitimate claim. Um. 102 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: What really helps them is like you said, it was 103 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: on their land and that it's super old, right exactly, 104 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: So the fact that it's very very old means that 105 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: the person who buried them is probably dead may not 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: even have any living heirs any longer. Um that's one 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: thing that it's it's old. The second thing is that 108 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: it's old, but it's also not necessarily archaeological. It's it's money. 109 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: So it's the gold coins are the definition of treasure. 110 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: And what we've entured now is called treasure law. And 111 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: there's different types of things that we'll see, but there's 112 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: one one category of found property is called treasure. And 113 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: what they found was treasure. It was a gold coin, 114 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: it was very old, but it wasn't necessarily archaeological. Again, 115 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: it was on their property. And so had somebody come 116 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: along and said, my Grandpappy Clark buried those back when 117 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: my family owned this property, that's ours, they would have 118 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: a claim. And and pretty much anytime something valuable, especially 119 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: ten million dollars valuable, is found in the United States, 120 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: it is automatically going to get hammered out in court 121 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: because the laws are so vague, in piecemeal and arbitrary 122 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: that it's going to going to be hammered out in court. 123 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: Who has the bigger claim. But because John and Mary 124 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: found something that was old that was buried by someone, 125 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: no one knows who buried it, and that it was 126 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: found on their property. They have a pretty good claim. Now, 127 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: if you were going to come and say, my grandpappy 128 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: buried that, um, your claim would be that was that 129 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: belonged to my family at one point in time. We 130 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: think it still does. It just happened to be buried 131 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: and forgotten or left um on land that these people bought. 132 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: Now there's a pretty good chance that the court would say, yeah, 133 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: but they bought the land. And depending on what state 134 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: you're in, that's that if they own the land, they 135 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: owned everything on it. Yeah. Or bought the car with 136 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: money in the trunk, or the house with a super 137 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: valuable painting buried in the attic. It's sort of all 138 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: the same um and And this is modern times. This 139 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: has been going on since the dawn of time when 140 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: people would lose or bury something, and they've always had 141 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: I think back then it was a little more cut 142 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: and dried, like an ancient Rome. If you found something 143 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: like that, half of it went to the emperor. Just 144 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: sort of know if ands or butts uh. If. In 145 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: modern England, if you find something um old and rare, uh, 146 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: they say that belongs to the queen. Um. But here's 147 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: here's like a good fee for you now now hand 148 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: it over. And that's very very new, and that's kind 149 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: of that represents the the new thinking in treasure law 150 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: or found property law, which is, look, we can't just 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: let you keep this stuff that may have not just 152 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: like monetary value, but actually like cultural value as well, 153 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: like so we need to have something to do with this. 154 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: So England just when, or i should say, the UK 155 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: just said everything you find that is valuable or antique 156 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: um and archaeological that belongs to the crown. But the 157 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: Crown is going to pay you market value, no questions asked, 158 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: right off the bat. So it's not finders keepers, but 159 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: it's finders. Here's here's a bunch of money you didn't 160 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: have before for finding this and bringing it into us. 161 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: And the point of this from the position of the 162 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: Crown or the UK government is that it encourages cooperation 163 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: with archaeological, archaeologists and historians to preserve cultural stuff rather 164 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,479 Speaker 1: than just having it sold out onto them the commercial 165 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: market to private collectors because of finder keepers laws. And 166 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: that's how it was before six Yeah. I mean, if 167 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: if it's in the UK today and you find something 168 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: that is not an ancient gold coin. But if you 169 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: just find it, let's say, you know, ten thousand pounds 170 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: bundled together, buried in your in your attic or on 171 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: the street for that matter, I think you have to 172 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: file paperwork at a police station. Uh, the owners have 173 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: twenty eight days to claim it, and then it's yours. 174 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: In the United States, it varies from state to state 175 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: and uh sometimes even county to county, but generally it's 176 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: sort of the same thing, like reported to the police. 177 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: They need to advertise the lost property for a week 178 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: and then wait about ninety days, depending on where you are, 179 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: to see if anyone claims it, and then after that 180 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: they might say you can keep it. Yeah, but but 181 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: maybe it just depends on where you are. That's um, 182 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: that's like contemporary property that you found, right, yeah, yeah, 183 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: this is not like ancient gold coins. This is I 184 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: found a bundle of cold, hard cash. So let's let's 185 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: take a break and then we'll take a detour into 186 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: content porary property, because there are like a whole other 187 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: set of laws that are like are kind of important too, 188 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: All right, okay, Chuck, So, like we said, there's there's 189 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: some categories for for property found property. One of them 190 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: is the treasure where it's just straight up I found 191 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: eight cans of gold coins and it's treasure. Some in 192 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: the UK there's not really a distinction between that and say, um, 193 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: like uh, archaeological artifacts, they're virtually one and the same. 194 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: In the US, because the age of the country is 195 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: young enough, there's a distinction between an archaeological artifact and say, 196 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: like treasure that's found. But there's then there's contemporary property 197 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: where the person who owned it is probably still alive. 198 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: If not, they're the first generation after them is still 199 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: probably around UM and that that contemporary stuff is basically 200 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: broken out into three subcategories. There's lost, abandoned, and mislaid property, 201 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: and depending on the status of the property UM, the 202 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: finder may or may not get to keep it. And 203 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: even that then it depends on where you are. Yes, 204 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: so as far as those categories go. Abandoned property is 205 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: something that uh they say is forsaken by a previous 206 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: owner who doesn't have any intention of coming back for it, 207 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: so they've abandoned. They have abandoned it. Can you imagine 208 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: like how you would tell whether something's abandoned or not. 209 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean unless they literally leave a 210 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: note saying finders keepers, I don't want this anymore. Get 211 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: this away from me. You know what would it be 212 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: like a big bag of cocaine that somebody left there, Like, 213 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: I can't do anymore. This is really bad for me. 214 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: I don't want this. I don't know. Uh, I don't know. 215 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: That is that That is the one that is the 216 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: most confusing. The other two are much more straightforward. Lost 217 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: obviously is like the example they gave is you've lost 218 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: your engagement ring in the street, um, and clearly it's 219 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: something that you want back and maybe have tried to 220 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: come back and find um, but you have dropped it 221 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: or lost it somehow. And this mislaid is even more 222 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: interesting because uh, that is something that you intentionally put 223 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: somewhere but then kind of forgot it. And another good 224 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: example like you went to the bank and we're filling 225 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: out your your form and then oh my goodness, you 226 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: got a cell phone call and had to bolt real quick, 227 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: and you left that money on the counter that you 228 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: wanted to deposit in the bank. That is mislay, um, 229 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: because you clearly had an intention for it and we're 230 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: just way late or whatever, right, so it's not technically lost. 231 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: Because you put it somewhere on purpose, whereas lost, like 232 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: you dropped something in a parking lot. You may not 233 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: even know you're missing it at the time, right, or 234 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: you can't find it, right. Um. Mislaid is just like 235 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: you're no longer where you put that thing down, but 236 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: you intended to do something with it. There was intent 237 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: behind it, but you forgot or something or you got 238 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: called away. Yeah, and that that property mislaid property is 239 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be guarded by whoever owns the property. So 240 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: in that case it would be the bank. Somebody from 241 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: the bank should go over there, collect that money and 242 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: just set it aside and be like that guy. I'll 243 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: be back for this, right. Which is it's funny because 244 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: you know the whole lost and Found box. You think 245 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: that's just like a good Samaritan thing. Well, really it's 246 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: everybody just covering their behinds lee speaking. I guess I 247 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: see it differently now, and I'm a little more bitter 248 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: because of it. So this Arizona case is one of 249 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: the ones where I got a little, uh little pod 250 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: I was a little bit. So this is a man died, 251 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: he hid half a million dollars in cans and ammo cans, 252 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: ammunition cans in the walls. And years later, the person 253 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: who owned that house, we're doing some renovations. Outcome these 254 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: cans and they were like, oh my god, it's a 255 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: half a million dollars. This is ours. So this man's 256 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: daughters they knew, like dad loved to do stuff like this. 257 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: He loved to hide things, He loved to hide things away. Uh. 258 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: They they searched before they sold the house. They even searched, 259 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: but obviously did not find these these cans stashed in 260 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: the walls. Uh. And when this came out, these daughters 261 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: came forward and we're like, you know, that's our money, 262 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: that's our our you know, should have gone to us 263 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: in a will, but my kookie dad stashed it in 264 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: the wall again. And uh, these people fought them for 265 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: that and said, no finders keepers in our wall. We 266 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: bought this house. Well, so I mean, I I can 267 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: understand your eye or in your anger, and that's what 268 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm like. As soon as someone stepped forward, I would 269 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: have been like, oh, well, here's your money, then, like 270 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: this is your father's. It doesn't belong to me. But 271 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: what if you were like, actually, we've got a like 272 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: legitimate legal claim to this because depending on where they were, 273 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: and this is Arizona, but I mean depending on the state. 274 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: When you buy property from somebody, you buy the property, 275 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: and everything on that property, whether anyone knows it's there 276 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: or not, it belongs to you. Is the property owner. 277 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: For example, Texas is huge on that huge on private 278 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: property ownership, so much so that if you own property 279 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: in Texas and there's an archaeological site on your property, 280 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: that's yours, bub you can set it on fire, you 281 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: can turn it into a rec room, you can do 282 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: whatever you want with that stuff. That's your property. That's 283 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: how that's how Texas views uhum private property rights. Right. 284 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: So these people may have been like, well, we're from Texas, 285 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: that's just how we do it in Texas. They had 286 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: a legitimate claim to challenge. I get what you're saying. 287 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: But they also may have felt like, hey, we bought 288 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: this property and this came with the property, so this 289 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: is our sorry, that whole losers wheepers thing I think 290 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: is what they were invoking. Yeah, I mean that that's 291 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: clearly what they did. But what I'm saying is that 292 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: is not a that's not cool. No, it's that money 293 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: did not belong to them. They didn't work for it. 294 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: They didn't buy it because the house because they thought 295 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: there might be money in the walls. And if no 296 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: one came forward, then great. But as soon as these 297 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: daughters come forward, like that's their money to do the 298 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: right thing, that's what I say. I'm with you. Would 299 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: there's no way I would have challenged these daughters in court, right, 300 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: you would have been Finders, nice guys, losers here you go, Well, 301 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: I'd make sure, you know, I'd go through all the 302 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: legal process of making sure that they are who they 303 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: say they were and it all checked out. I wouldn't 304 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: like if they came knocking on my door, would just 305 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: go all right here, But I would. I would go 306 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: through that process and then say, well, okay, then it's 307 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: definitely your money. Would you like interview their cousins would 308 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: be like, what kind of daughters were they? Were they 309 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: good daughters? Or you know? Do they deserve this? And 310 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: at the very least, you're inviting a a heap of 311 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: bad luck and karma upon your head. Well, if you 312 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: believe that kind of stuff, sure it comes around. What 313 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: goes around comes around. That's my motto. Well that's another 314 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,239 Speaker 1: Finders keepers, losersweepers, what goes around comes around? And then 315 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: the third one everything I needed to know I learned 316 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: in kindergarten. Or what about this guy in Georgia the 317 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: public defender talk about a jerk? Yes, there's no this 318 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: guy had no legal standing whatsoever, whether he was from 319 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: Texas or anywhere. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't look him 320 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: up to see what his name was. But in two 321 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, a public defender found, um uh a diamond 322 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: ring I guess, an engagement ring that was worth something 323 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: like ten dollars and just put it in their pocket 324 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and walked away whistling, Man, what a I mean, especially 325 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: an engagement ring? Right, that's mine? You know? What a jerk? No, 326 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 1: I I agree, and um he got in trouble for it. 327 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: From what I understand, they when the person went back 328 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: and said I lost my engagement ring at the target 329 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: helped me. The target said, well, of course, we're gonna 330 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: help you. Calm down, Calm down, peace, brother, And they 331 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: pulled up their surveillance videos and saw the public defender 332 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: finding the ring and pocketing it, and they put a 333 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: warrant out for the public defenders arrest for I think 334 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: larceny actually, at the very least for not going to 335 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: lengths to find the person whose ring it was. Yeah, 336 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: not even links links, pick up a phone or go 337 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: into the target and be like, hey, I need to 338 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: speak to a manager. Well, it's funny, it says. One 339 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: of the things that you can and should do if 340 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: is like to do that and go like give that 341 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: diamond ring to the manager at target, and like, I 342 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: would never do that if it was something super valuable, 343 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust I wouldn't trust them. I would keep 344 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: it under my own control and go to the cops. 345 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: Just walk around with a gun drawn on everybody, like, 346 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: get back, get back. I found somebody's diamond ring. Get back. 347 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: It's my looking at And you're like, maybe I should 348 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: just go ahead and rob someplace. Now I got my 349 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: gun out and I'm protecting this diamond ring. And you 350 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: enter into a life of crime totally inadvertent. It's a 351 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: justice thing again, Like I don't want people should have 352 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: stuff that is rightfully there. It's not like up, well 353 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: I just happened to get lucky today, right who get 354 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: rich quick? Like that's what's wrong with this country? Yeah, 355 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: And I mean I know you're right about the five 356 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: grand in the behind the toaster oven. The diamond ring 357 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: is even more cut and dry to me for sure. 358 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: But um, that's yeah. This this isn't a parking lot 359 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: and it was just lost, you know. Um. So yeah, 360 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: there are certain things that you want to do if 361 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: you find lost property that is contemporary, that's obviously lost, 362 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: that's obviously new. Um. And one of the first things 363 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: you want to do is take it to the cops 364 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: and say, here, here's my name and number in case 365 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: somebody doesn't doesn't claim this, but I'm officially giving it 366 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: to you the cops for safe keeping, and then probably 367 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: take out an ad in the paper or on Craigslist 368 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: or both, and then kick back and wait for the 369 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: kudos and the praise for being a hero, yeah, or 370 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: for that thing to be returned to you if no 371 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: one claims it. Yep, depending on where you are, I 372 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: think it like you said, in the UK, it's something 373 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: like a month. In California, it's I saw a twenty days. 374 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: I've also seen ninety. Um. Yeah, if you do all 375 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: the right things and follow all the right steps, it 376 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: can be yours, free and clear. Not only free and clear, 377 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: You're not going to be arrested, freeing clear where the 378 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: person can come back and say, oh, you know I 379 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: I that was my ring. If you are a jerk, 380 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: you can say no, it's my ring now, and the 381 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: cops would be like, it's it's their ring now. They 382 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: followed all the right moves. Yeah. They also recommend if 383 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: it's something really really valuable, maybe like get an attorney 384 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: on on the thing, like maybe one who would find 385 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: a diamond ring and not return it right exactly. He's 386 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: a public defender too, That's what I don't get. Yeah, yeah, well, 387 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: I mean it was like an entertainment attorney. It would 388 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: make much more sense, it would, I guess, But a 389 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: public defenders like, well, I don't get paid, this is 390 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: a really thankless job, and I'm going to do something 391 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: for myself for once, and then they ended up in 392 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: jail for doing something for themselves and then needed a 393 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: public defender. Yes, ironically, should we take a break, Yeah, 394 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, chuck, And then we are 395 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: going to go under the sea. Yeah, where things get 396 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: really confusing, all right, So this is where things get 397 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: super super convoluted when you're talking about uh, shipwrecks and 398 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: literal treasure from like you know, uh, an ancient galleon, um, 399 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: or maybe not ancient, but let's just say a galleon, 400 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: you know it could be yes, we'll say galleons. In 401 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: ancient times they had Oh you know, the oldest intact 402 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: shipwreck was recently found in the Black Seat. Did you 403 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: see it. It's an ancient ship Okay, so ancient Greek? Yeah, 404 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: Like that's how ancient. It's not even Greek, it's Greek. Yea, 405 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: it's so ancient. Um, it's the kind that Odysseus was 406 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: lashed two when they were going past the Sirens. It's 407 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: like that kind of ship. It's that old, right, and 408 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: um it's fully in techt just laying on its side 409 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: at the bottom of the Black Sea. It's just beautiful, 410 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: beautiful little shipwreck. And that would be an ancient galleon. 411 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: I guess you could call it. All right. So this 412 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: is where like I don't even know how to talk 413 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: about this almost because it's so convoluted, because it can 414 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: it can matter whose ship it originally was, it can 415 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: matter what was on that ship. It can matter where 416 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: the ship is now resting in whose waters or if 417 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: it's international waters or partially on one side or the other, 418 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: which is when it gets super confusing who the ship 419 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: was least from, who was least from, who was in 420 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: charge of because most of these aren't accidents and know 421 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: uh that it has pointed out that sometimes like a 422 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: scuba diver might find something like this, but usually it's 423 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: an expedition looking for this stuff specifically, so who runs 424 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: that or whose insurance companies have a claim and what 425 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: international agreements are made, and it's just it's almost like 426 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: it's so case by case there really is no rule. Yeah. 427 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: If you thought land property was convoluted, under undersea archaeology 428 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: property treasure property is just totally off the charts. So 429 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: with UM, that was one of the nerdiest sentences I've 430 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: ever uttered. Yeah. I wrote an article years ago about 431 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: undersea archaeology and I did a lot of that research then, 432 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: and it is just really like basically what happens is 433 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: is once something is found, then everyone just lawyers up 434 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: and starts fighting. Yeah, exactly exactly. And I think the 435 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: reason why UM it's it's particularly convoluted in in um 436 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: contentious for the undersea um treasure is that the treasures 437 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: that they're finding are just so eye poppingly valuable that 438 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: it's worth, you know, going to court for fifteen twenty 439 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: years over billions of dollars in some cases. Yeah, there 440 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: was a wreck called the San Jose that was discovered 441 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: and it was announced in two thousand fifteen. I'm not 442 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: quite sure when Columbia discovered it, but it's off the 443 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: coast of Cartagena and its fifteen. The Colombian government came 444 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: forward and said, we found the San Jose. It was 445 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: a galleon. It was sunk by the British three hundred 446 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: years ago. No, no, it was. It was Spanish, but 447 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: it was transporting gold, silver gems from Peru back to 448 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: Spain to to finance a war. It was loaded with 449 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: with valuables. And they think that this wreck today the 450 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: valuables aboard are worth between one and twelve billion dollars. Yeah, 451 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: this is not something that any one of these parties 452 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: or countries is gonna give up on now. It's the 453 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: kind of shipwreck. It's the kind of treasure that can 454 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: actually affect world markets, like the value of goods on 455 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: world markets above on land, because this stuff has been 456 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: under the sea and out of the market for so long. 457 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: When it comes onto the market. It could actually depress 458 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: the value of the of like gold, because there's so 459 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: much of it suddenly coming on the market. That's how 460 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: rich this treasure is. Yeah, and it's funny here this 461 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: article you sent. Um, there is a UNESCO convention in 462 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: two thousand one on underwater cultural heritage findings that have 463 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: best practices. They're not actually like you know, laws and 464 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: they're they're like, we'd be happy to help out with this, 465 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: but nobody's called this. That's so you and yeah, they 466 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: they don't want them involved. Basically, they're just like, now 467 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: we're going to work it out with the lawyers. They're like, hey, thanks, 468 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: thanks a lot. Just go sit over there until call 469 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: your pretty much. Um. So the San Jose has a 470 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: lot of people arguing over it. For example, Spain is saying, well, 471 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: it's a Spanish galleon, give us our give us our 472 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: money back. Colombia is like, yeah, it's in our coastal waters, 473 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: that's our territorial waters that belongs to us. Peru says, yeah, 474 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: you guys came and extracted that from our indigenous population 475 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: back when we were Spanish calling. And that's one that 476 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: doesn't come up very often. But you think it should, 477 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 1: especially in the New World stuff, right, Yeah, like that 478 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: that was our original stuff to begin with, even so 479 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: we should have never been on that boat. Ironically, they 480 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: probably have the least claim to it, sadly, and but 481 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: um there's I wonder though if they'll get a portion 482 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: of it, though, I think if they said no, this 483 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: is this is a thing, this is legitimate, they could 484 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: conceivably get caught in. But they're not going to get 485 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: the whole thing. I don't think anybody's going to get 486 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: the whole thing, preting clear. So there's all these different 487 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: groups arguing over it, and it's big of a mess 488 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: as it is, it's actually not the biggest mess of 489 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: a treasure found a board a shipwreck. There's a ship 490 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: called the Notre Dame de Delivrance. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, 491 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: that was um that sank forty miles off of Florida 492 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: in seventeen fifty five. I mean, one of just hundreds 493 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: and hundreds of ships to crash off the coast of Florida, 494 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: and a U. S. Salvage company found it in two 495 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: thousand two. And this is the one that I was 496 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: talking about. It's partially in international waters, partially as part 497 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. The Spaniards lease 498 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: the ship from the French West Indies Company, and so 499 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: they all have a claim. And then complicating this is 500 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: the fact that in the United States we passed the 501 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: abandoned shipwreck deck, which means all shipwrecks within US waters 502 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: uh uh, which is what like three miles off of 503 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: any of our coastlines. Um our US properties? Is that right? Yep? 504 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: So it's super convoluted. And that's actually the territorial waters 505 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: thing has kind of been the toughest one or the 506 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: um the best claim that any country can lay on 507 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: a ship is now it's in our territorial waters. Customarily 508 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: that means that's yours, that's yours to deal with. But 509 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: when the ship is in international waters, are partially in 510 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: international waters, that's just a whole different ball game. And 511 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: even when something's in territorial waters, like Spain's not gonna 512 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: go away. You know, when two to three billion dollars 513 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: is on the table, they're gonna say no, We're gonna 514 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: use our diplomats to press you know, at least getting 515 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: a portion of this. France will do the same thing, 516 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: and the salvers are like, well, hey, wait a minute, 517 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: this is this is ours, And actually, at first the 518 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: Florida Um Florida judge said, yep, it's yours. Being clear, 519 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: two to three billion dollar booty is yours. Take it, 520 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,479 Speaker 1: put on this eye patch in this cool hat, and 521 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: go get it. Well, but you have to get Spain's 522 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: permission to go get it, right exactly, so Spain's gonna 523 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: say no, we want to have something to do with this. 524 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: But that Shipwrecked Act, the whole, the whole reason why 525 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: the United States is even involved is from that Shipwrecked Act. 526 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: It's very similar to that UK Act where it basically says, nope, 527 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: it belongs to us. Where the United States, it's in 528 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: our territorial waters, it belongs to us. But here's a 529 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: significant portion of it usually like of it. And the 530 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: point of that is to keep um salvers and treasure 531 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: hunters interested enough that they're actually going out and salvaging 532 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: these archaeological sites. But they're doing it under the jurisdiction 533 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: of the state or federal government, which says you've got 534 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: to keep daily logs. You have to break the reck 535 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: site into strings of square meters, you have to catalog everything. 536 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: You have to have a certified archaeology, a marine archaeologist 537 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: on board throughout the entire voyage overseeing this whole thing. 538 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: You gotta do it right, and we'll give you of 539 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: what we can get for it, which is substantial in 540 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: some some cases. But it's not like treasure hunting is 541 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: like a cheap activity. It's a very expensive undertaking. Yeah, 542 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: it's seriously expensive. And like they don't just like these 543 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: treasure hunting companies don't just go in there and say, hey, 544 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: I think there's something there, let's go grab it. I mean, 545 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: they do all their research because it is so expensive, 546 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: two ensure as much as possible that they will have 547 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: a claim to it in the end. You know, they 548 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: don't just go in there willy nilly and hopes that 549 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: the courts will decide with them. No, no, for sure, 550 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: But I mean I think that's the probably of significant 551 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: portion of the operating costs of a treasure hunting outfit 552 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: is the court costs and fees um to to get 553 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: the to to get the rights to the treasure. I 554 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: would guess, yeah, and in this case too, I'm sure 555 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: of France was like Florida judge, like, I don't care 556 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: what you say. But Florida judges have a big say 557 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: in this. They're about as professional as you could get 558 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: as far as as um passing judgment on treasure claims 559 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: for sunken ships. Because Florida has the most sunken ships 560 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: of any state in the Union, something like six thousand 561 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: to ten thousand estimated shipwrecks from piracy, hurricanes, all this stuff. Um, 562 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: Florida's got it. Also, if you're gonna if you're looking 563 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: for a judge who has experience on ruling on a 564 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: case like this, Florida is probably your best bet. Don't 565 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: go to Oklahoma. That would be my my suggestion. That's 566 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: just good advice all around. And it can also so 567 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: um if you're a treasure hunter, not only can the 568 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: court costs be killer, you might be put in jail. 569 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Tommy Thompson who's a very famous 570 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: treasure hunter who found the wreck of the Fitzgerald. No, although, man, 571 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,239 Speaker 1: there are a few wreck that fascinate me more than 572 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: the M. M. Fitzgerald. I can just sit there and 573 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: look at those eerie pictures of it all day long. 574 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: I can I just sing that song over and over. Um, 575 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: you shouldn't do that. He'll drive you insane. No, he 576 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: found the wreck of the s S. Central America, which 577 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: was a steamer that went down in a hurricane off 578 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: the coast of South Carolina in eighteen fifty seven with 579 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty five souls aboard and three tons 580 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: of gold and um. He found it, and he went 581 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: and sold a bunch of stuff and didn't pay his investors, 582 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: and a judge put him in jail in Ohio, where 583 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: he's been sitting since I think two thousand fifteen, because 584 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: he refuses to say where five hundred gold coins from 585 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: the wreck went. He just won't say. He said that 586 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: he gave him to somebody and believes, but he can't 587 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: remember who they are. That's really that's what his That's 588 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: what his lawyer had to tell the Washington Post. That funny. Yeah, 589 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: I'd just be like that to somebody and he can't 590 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: remember who. Yeah. I mean, I wish we could have 591 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: been a little bit more like black and white about 592 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: the shipwreck thing. But it's just it's just so depends 593 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: on the case. Yeah, you know, there is no solid rule. 594 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: There's a couple of solid rules. There's one above ground 595 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: where if you are caught digging on federal land. That's 596 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: a felony um and any stone tool found in the 597 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: United States belonged to the federal government automatically, I would guess, 598 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: unless it's in Texas, in which case the Texas authorities 599 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: and the federal authorities would fight with one another over 600 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: your right to own that stone tool. That's a good point. 601 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: So I think that's about it for finders Keepers. Good one. Yeah, 602 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: I thought so too. Uh. If you want to know 603 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: more about finders Keepers, go find something and say finders 604 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: Keepers and see what happens, and then let us know. 605 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, we're gonna sit here and do 606 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: listener mail. I'm gonna call this Stanford Prison prison experiment 607 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: follow up angry Fallow. Yeah you read this one. Hey, guys, 608 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for your episode on Zimbardo. 609 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: I'm a cognitive psychologist and have been teaching for years, 610 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: and it makes me angry in a way I have 611 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: never been angry before. You do your best to fact 612 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: check and show that you're giving the student and she's 613 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: not talking about our show, by the way, not Zimbardo. 614 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: You do your best to fact check and show you're 615 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: giving the students reliable information, but then someone pulls crap 616 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: like this again Zimbardo, and causes serious problems for us 617 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: as teachers. How did I handle this chapter this year? Well? 618 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: Number one, I taught it as normal as the text 619 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: takes forever to be updated. And number two I showed 620 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: them the video ghost of Abu Grabe? Is it Abbi grade? 621 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: Abbi Grade? And had to had them right about how 622 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: Zimbardo's study predicted this would happen. And then three had 623 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: them all listen to your podcast. Now they're all as 624 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: angry as I am, partially at me for doing that, 625 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: but I wanted them to feel the effort they put 626 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: into it go to waste. But I had a very 627 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: interesting observation in one class, the publicity and popularity off 628 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: this study. Could it have actually created the dystopian prison 629 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: environment and part at Abi Grabe through expectation? Oh, I 630 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: see like a self fulfilling prophecy, I guess. So. Basically, 631 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: was Zimbardo the actual lucifer in his book having an 632 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: effect not only in society as a whole and what 633 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,439 Speaker 1: we believe about humanity, but how we act we now 634 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: live in his hell? Then she says, thanks again. Uh 635 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: and that is from Alison Demming from Try County Tech 636 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: Temporarily insane with rage. It's right, I don't blame her. Yeah, 637 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: that was That was a good episode, dude, one of 638 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 1: the best. Yeah. Thanks Alison, Yeah, thanks a lot, Alison. 639 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for writing in with the support. We agree with 640 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: you wholeheartedly. It's passion. It's not anger, that's right, man, 641 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: Or maybe it's anger. I don't want to tell you 642 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: how may feel, man, Chuck, you're killing at the stays. 643 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: So if you want to get in touch with us, 644 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: you can go to stuff you Should Know dot com 645 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: and check out our social links. I'm at the Josh 646 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: Clarkway dot com and world via email at stuff podcast 647 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this 648 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 649 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: dot com