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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast.

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Speaker 2: You can't predict any ofthing.

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Speaker 3: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 3: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 3: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 3: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 3: dot com. F I R S T L I T

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Speaker 3: E dot com.

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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, joined today by David Chang, Holy smokes,

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Speaker 2: excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: I you okay, David Chang, Michelin star chef Momafuku restaurant

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Speaker 3: group podcaster, Tons of television, like a lot of television.

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Speaker 2: Started out as a chef, yup, we do I just

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Speaker 2: play one on TV?

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Speaker 1: Nice play one.

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Speaker 3: We just talked about you a whole bunch because, as

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Speaker 3: I described to you earlier, I had was moose hunting

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Speaker 3: and we ate a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of uh we ate a lot of your ramen.

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Speaker 1: Wow, a lot of your ramen.

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Speaker 3: With maybe in an area that no one has ever

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Speaker 3: eaten your ramen. And then I got home and got

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Speaker 3: to talking about this and and uh Randall Weaver here

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Speaker 3: he was saying that he likes to he.

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Speaker 1: Likes to eat.

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Speaker 3: You're the Mama Fuku ramen because you don't feel like

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Speaker 3: it's such a piece of ship eating.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not.

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Speaker 4: Just physiologically, not just physiologically, but in terms of self

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Speaker 4: esteem and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's what that's like. I know exactly what you mean.

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Speaker 2: You don't feel like it just yeah, you feel it

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Speaker 2: feels like clean and good.

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Speaker 3: Dude, I'll tell you I sat down and did I

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Speaker 3: sat down to three packs?

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Speaker 2: Wow? Two is really sort of the proper portion.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, no, we moved down on a three pack.

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Speaker 1: What are you good for, Randall?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I'm thrilled to go home though, and tell my wife

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Speaker 4: that two is actually the proper amount for one person.

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Speaker 2: Well, listen, we're gonna send you a whole boatload of

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Speaker 2: the Mombo product. Trust that's phenomenal.

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Speaker 3: No, it was that ship was good and and a

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Speaker 3: buddy of mine we were sitting there after we got

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Speaker 3: a moose. Uh my colleague Seth that I work with,

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Speaker 3: he was he went to the over to where we

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Speaker 3: were storing all the meat, and he went over to

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Speaker 3: one of the game bags was cutting himself off super

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Speaker 3: thin moose slices, skewering amount of stick. And then he

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Speaker 3: did the momofuku.

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Speaker 2: U can you say wants momofuku? So I'm saying exactly,

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Speaker 2: but I've heard every pronunciation of it. Momofuko is surely

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Speaker 2: the most popular way of saying it. They hadn't know.

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Speaker 2: But it's fine. It sounds like the reason that I

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Speaker 2: named it that it sounds like motherfucker. Sure does. That

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Speaker 2: really is so it doesn't mean something. It does because

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Speaker 2: I thought when we did the restaurant, when it came

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Speaker 2: out with the idea of two thousand and four is

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Speaker 2: to introduce ramia. Reintroduced romen to maya because most people

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Speaker 2: know it as instant noodles. The guy that created was

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Speaker 2: the Taiwanese guy. He wasn't even Japanese. He created to

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Speaker 2: sort of feed post war Japan in a fast way.

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Speaker 2: And his name was Momofuku, and I thought it would

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Speaker 2: be And at the time I was still reading a

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Speaker 2: lot of books about logic and teutologies and shit like that. Man,

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Speaker 2: I was spoken a lot of pop back then, But

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Speaker 2: like I thought, that was sounds good, sounds like motherfucker.

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Speaker 2: The guy's name was MoMA fuku even though now legally

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Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to say it even though we've won

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Speaker 2: that case. Don't worry about it. And three, you know,

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Speaker 2: the first concert I went to, A second concert I

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Speaker 2: went to was Alman Brothers when I was growing up,

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Speaker 2: because I grew up in Virginia and because to me

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Speaker 2: that I'm waiting if this explained something, this is all

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Speaker 2: gonna make sense, because there was my favorite cover as

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Speaker 2: a kid was Eat a Peach, and that's when I

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Speaker 2: remember going there. I remember I didn't even see I

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Speaker 2: didn't even know what a vinyl record looked like, and

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Speaker 2: I saw that and be like, oh, that's a cool thing.

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Speaker 2: So that was always ingrained in my head when I

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Speaker 2: went to the concert and people wearing T shirts of

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Speaker 2: that same that that that cover of that album. So

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Speaker 2: it became something that was like always, I've always associated

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Speaker 2: positive memories. And then I'm in Japan learning Japanese cooking

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Speaker 2: and I'm learning things words that would mostly associate with food.

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Speaker 2: Momo means leg mm hm. So you know, you go

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Speaker 2: to a katy restaurant, you get momo and fuku is

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Speaker 2: like an edge of lucky. So I said lucky peach.

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Speaker 2: So a logo became the peach. So that's why the

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Speaker 2: Almond Brothers came it. Yeah, oh that's great.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that funny when you're talking about your Japanese being

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Speaker 3: food things? Is I've always struggled with Spanish, but I

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Speaker 3: can oftentimes smoke people on my uh the wildlife names

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Speaker 3: like I used to like every like I'd be like,

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Speaker 3: I don't really know any Spanish, just that I can

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Speaker 3: name most.

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Speaker 1: Fish in Spanish and a lot of game animals and Spanish.

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Speaker 2: Uh, but yeah, that l that stuff is phenomenal. Man.

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Speaker 1: So he was cooking little moose slices and dressing his

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Speaker 1: thing up.

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Speaker 2: So did he did he boil it? Or did he

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Speaker 2: roast it?

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Speaker 1: We had a big argument. No, no, he was boiled.

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Speaker 3: He was just skewering his little thin super moose slices

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Speaker 3: on a stick a little bit and little strips of

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Speaker 3: fat on a stick and then putting them in. I

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Speaker 3: was encouraging him to get it boiling and just drop

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Speaker 3: it in, which he didn't want to do it that

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Speaker 3: way for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: And another debate we had, well.

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Speaker 2: You're the better cook, because clearly I think you had

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Speaker 2: a better understanding. So sorry, your friend, this friend I've

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Speaker 2: never been said.

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Speaker 3: He's on this show quite frequently. He also we had

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Speaker 3: a debate. I'd like you to settle this once and

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Speaker 3: for all. He felt that you shouldn't actually boil the stuff.

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Speaker 3: He'd liked to have it be that you would just

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Speaker 3: put hot water on it and then let it give

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Speaker 3: it a good soak, contrary to the instructions, which is

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Speaker 3: a three minute boil.

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Speaker 2: Seth. I appreciate the independent thinking, that out of the

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Speaker 2: box thinking. I'm sure sometimes that out of the box

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Speaker 2: thinking can come in handy, but not in this situation. Now,

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Speaker 2: it is not designed. In fact, I think it should

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Speaker 2: be cooked thirty seconds to a minute longer than the

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Speaker 2: three minutes. Because it is air dried. It will work eventually,

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Speaker 2: It'll just saturate and that's how it can be done.

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Speaker 2: But it should be boiled. We're working on some other

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Speaker 2: noodles where it can work that way. And I'll make

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Speaker 2: sure that send quicker so he doesn't look foolish. Yeah time, dude,

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Speaker 2: No that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I really really appreciated it, and and I had

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Speaker 3: I man, what's what yeard?

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Speaker 1: You start in the restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Business nineteen ninety nine? Okay, so you had.

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Speaker 3: Been going quite a while before I went in, but

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Speaker 3: I was I ate in your restaurants early on, but

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Speaker 3: not that early. We're gonna get into your whole life story,

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Speaker 3: your big fly fisherman. Yes, saltwater fly fishermen.

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Speaker 2: I moved on to although I did a lot of

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Speaker 2: trout fishing this summer, salt water is where I think

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Speaker 2: about almost all the time.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was that was surprised a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who are familiar to stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people don't don't know that. There's

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Speaker 2: not a lot of crew people on the flats in Mexico.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 3: We got to touch out a couple of things. So man,

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Speaker 3: one of these random you gotta take it over on

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Speaker 3: one of these. Are you ready?

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Speaker 2: I think so because the couple people, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I'll get to it.

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Speaker 3: I'll get to it, and you're gonna have to jump

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Speaker 3: in because it has some people I respect a lot.

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Speaker 1: We're riled up. Remember I was talking about the guy,

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Speaker 1: the climate change guy.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: Now, first off, guy wrote in to say that we

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Speaker 3: were talking about the number of PhDs out there, and

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Speaker 3: a guy wrote in talking about the great explosion in

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Speaker 3: PhD candidates and he views it as a mark like

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Speaker 3: a market economy issue. Yah, the colleges realized they could

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Speaker 3: make money producing these things. But I'm only throwing that

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Speaker 3: out there because I was talking about was it the

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Speaker 3: journal Nature?

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Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, on a past episode.

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Speaker 3: And I've been and I've had multiple academics right in

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Speaker 3: very upset with me, including the people that account as

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Speaker 3: my friend. I mentioned a article that was in free Press.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking.

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Speaker 3: A guy wrote, an academic researcher who works on wildfires,

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Speaker 3: wrote an article in Free Press, and he was saying,

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Speaker 3: I was just published in the journal Nature about California wildfires.

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Speaker 3: Our point out worrying in California right now. I was

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Speaker 3: just publishing the journal Nature about about wildfires. And he said,

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Speaker 3: and here's what it takes. This is an op ed.

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Speaker 3: He's like, here's what it takes to publish in esteemed

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Speaker 3: journals like Nature is you have to push a climate

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Speaker 3: change supremacy perspective in order to be taken seriously by journals. Meaning,

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Speaker 3: you know, eighty percent of California wildfires are human caused.

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Speaker 3: If you wrote a published paper about that, that's not

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Speaker 3: going to grab their interest. Electrical transmission, like we just

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Speaker 3: saw the fires in Maui. The dangers of how we

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Speaker 3: you know, transfer electricity can lead to a lot of

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Speaker 3: wildfires that won't be of interest to nature. What nature

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Speaker 3: would want to hear what they made and date to hear,

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Speaker 3: is they want to hear the climate change connection.

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Speaker 1: And I pointed.

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Speaker 3: Out this fact, but then it'll want to be into

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Speaker 3: this guy got himself an all kind of hot water

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Speaker 3: and had maybe already gotten in hot water.

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Speaker 2: At the time I brought it up.

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Speaker 3: And I only told a fraction of the story, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of people were like, dude, you kind of

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Speaker 3: like started off on the first.

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Speaker 2: Page and ended and you didn't get to the end

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Speaker 2: of the book on this. Do you care to take

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Speaker 2: this up?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I can only speak to what I read.

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Speaker 4: But apparently the journal had asked him to provide They said, well,

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Speaker 4: did you consider X, Y and Z. And he said,

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Speaker 4: oh no, we didn't have time or we didn't have

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Speaker 4: funding to look at.

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Speaker 2: These different factors. Yep.

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Speaker 4: And he you know, he responded to the reviewers by saying,

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Speaker 4: we looked at A, B and C, not X, Y

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Speaker 4: and Z, which is why. And so they apparently asked him,

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Speaker 4: you know, for the thing that he said they weren't

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Speaker 4: interested in Yeah, and then.

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Speaker 3: They went specifically asked about the very same things. He

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Speaker 3: said that they didn't want to and.

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Speaker 4: Then yeah, and then he kind of turned around and

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Speaker 4: said they only wanted A, B and C and they

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Speaker 4: they didn't ask me about X y Z, when in

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Speaker 4: fact they had prior to the publication of the article.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it wound up being like a not smart

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Speaker 2: move for that dude. Yeah. I think it came back

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Speaker 2: to bite him. I mean so, just just so so, Bob,

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Speaker 2: you know who you are.

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Speaker 1: Jim you know he are.

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Speaker 3: These are actual names too. Yeah, he thinks that would

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Speaker 3: makeing up names Bob and Jim. I'm not Bob and

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Speaker 3: Jim you know who you are. I'm not I have I've.

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Speaker 1: Stand corrected yet corrected.

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Speaker 3: But I appreciate the notes. I appreciate the notes. I

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Speaker 3: gotta keep these academic types keep warm. Yeah, because they

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Speaker 3: provide you a lot of information. On our episode four

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Speaker 3: seventy four, this is more listener feedback. This is a

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Speaker 3: little thing we do, little listener feedback. On our episode

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Speaker 3: four seventy four, Animal Diseases, someone writes this in Steve

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Speaker 3: seems shocked to find out about frogs being used for

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Speaker 3: pregnancy detection. This concept was actually developed after a test,

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Speaker 3: after a test that is known as the rabbit test.

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Speaker 1: It's ringing a bell.

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Speaker 2: You absolutely no idea. They used to use frogs. Check

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Speaker 2: this out.

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Speaker 3: They used to use frogs. You could use frogs to

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Speaker 3: tell if a woman was pregnant. That's how pregnancy tests

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Speaker 3: used to be.

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Speaker 2: Was frogs. What do you mean used to be actual frogs? Way, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 3: You could you could take you could you could do

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure how it was done. There was a

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Speaker 3: swab that you could do of a woman and it

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Speaker 3: would like there would be like levels of hormonal I

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Speaker 3: don't know if it's like the estrogen level, whatever hormone levels,

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Speaker 3: and you could induce a you could induce a like

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Speaker 3: reproductive response in a frog with this swab, and that

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Speaker 3: would tell you if that was a pregnant individual.

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Speaker 2: Seems like a lot of work.

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Speaker 1: Well these frogs.

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Speaker 3: Here's the crazy part we got in this whole podcast

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Speaker 3: episode with an or an animal disease specialist. These frogs

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Speaker 3: developed some sort of virus and now native frogs in

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Speaker 3: this country. This virus is traveling among native frogs in

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Speaker 3: this country, to which I asked, how do they even

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Speaker 3: get this virus? They got this virus from these pregnancy

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Speaker 3: frogs being released into the wild. So this, as this

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Speaker 3: listener goes on, this concept was actually developed after a

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Speaker 3: test is known as the rabbit test. The test which

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Speaker 3: involved subcutaneously injecting blood or urine of women assumed to

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Speaker 3: be pregnant into rabbits or mice, then dispatching the rabbit

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Speaker 3: to determine if there was folicular activity on the ovaries.

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Speaker 3: This is the origin of the saying. And he's acting

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Speaker 3: like this is gonna illuminate something for me. This is

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Speaker 3: the origin of the saying the rabbit died when referencing

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Speaker 3: of women who had been confirmed as pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Not myself.

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Speaker 1: No, I've never had that happen.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we will. Did this take place?

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Speaker 1: I didn't do a lot of work on it.

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Speaker 2: We could repopularize that one.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a misnomer. This listener goes on

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Speaker 3: to say, as regardless of the woman's pregnancy status, the

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Speaker 3: rabbit had perished.

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Speaker 1: Wayne Wayne wrote that in Thanks Wayne, did he where's

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Speaker 1: he from? Did he give a location? He didn't give

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Speaker 1: any location. I'm gonna start using that man. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know about my neighbor, but the old rabbit has died.

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Speaker 2: Fish spills Louisiana.

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Speaker 1: This is a serious issue, and you as a as

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Speaker 1: a as a fishing anger, will be curious.

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Speaker 3: Uh, it will be good to know. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to give the guy his full name. A guy wrote,

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Speaker 3: and he's from Louisiana. He's in the Navy. He's currently

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Speaker 3: stationed in San Diego. However, he's originally from South Louisiana,

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Speaker 3: where he points out there is a quote massive problem

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Speaker 3: with pogey boats.

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Speaker 1: Manhattan.

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Speaker 3: This is the fish of many names, Men Hayden. They

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Speaker 3: call him Pogy's in the Gulf, they call him men

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Speaker 3: Hayden in Chesapeake Bay. They got a handful of our names.

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Speaker 1: Bunkers and bunkers and all.

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Speaker 3: So if you're sitting there at home, you're like, never

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Speaker 3: heard of a poet by Noah Bunker, same guy, same fish,

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Speaker 3: massive problem with pogy boats fishing too close to the

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Speaker 3: coastline of wiping out our populations of game fish.

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Speaker 1: He goes on to talk about. He sends along the

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Speaker 1: forwarded email. Blow is what the state president sent out.

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Speaker 2: From a.

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Speaker 3: From a fishing conservation organization, and it gets into this, Uh,

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Speaker 3: it gets into this pogy boat habit where they are

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Speaker 3: dumping trying to find the link here, dumping enormous numbers

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Speaker 3: of dead fish. And I hadn't realized this when these

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Speaker 3: when these pogy boats are operating, and part of the

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Speaker 3: problem here is so I'm on the board. I'm on

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Speaker 3: the board of organization called Theodore Rolls about Conservation Partnership

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Speaker 3: and TRCP where Randall's work.

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Speaker 2: They've focused on energy on the.

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Speaker 3: Men Hayden, the unregulated men Hayden harvest in Chesapeake Bay.

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Speaker 4: I think they're now, Yeah, they've also focused on the

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Speaker 4: fishery and the Gulf, but the Chesapeake Bay one has

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Speaker 4: been a really hot issue.

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Speaker 3: When they're doing these when they're doing this pogey netting,

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Speaker 3: apparently during the process of netting, the fish die, so

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Speaker 3: when they're hauling them up, the fish are dead, and

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Speaker 3: they'll now and then have these breeches and they need

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Speaker 3: to report how many fish are killed when there's a

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Speaker 3: breach or a spill, and it is just a litany

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Speaker 3: of insane numbers of millions.

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Speaker 1: Of fish dumped.

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Speaker 3: And I couldn't believe when I got to reading about this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I knew about the lack of regulation on

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Speaker 3: his fishery. It's like often international interests operating without regulation

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Speaker 3: killing a forage fish that drives the whole ocean ecosystem

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Speaker 3: so that it can be like ground up for fish

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Speaker 3: oil and pet food and like knocking the legs off

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Speaker 3: the stool on marine resources. One of the reasons they

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Speaker 3: have to report a lot of these fish spills this

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Speaker 3: blew my mind, is because they caught too many and

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Speaker 3: sometimes the nets get their nets will get so full

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Speaker 3: of pogi's and redfish and all kinds of other game

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Speaker 3: fish that they don't have the machinery to hoist it.

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Speaker 3: By the time they find this out, it's all dead anyway,

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Speaker 3: and so they'll need to aband what's called abandon the catch,

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Speaker 3: and then file a report. But some of these officers

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Speaker 3: are in trouble now for not filing the reports. Then

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Speaker 3: file a report and saying, hey, what we were doing

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Speaker 3: worked better than we thought. Heads up, we just dumped

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Speaker 3: eight hundred thousand dead pogies and redfish.

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Speaker 1: On the beach. It blows my mind that this is

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Speaker 1: a that this goes on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this if you ever see photos of these big

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Speaker 4: catches and like a commercial manhadan harvest the scale of

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Speaker 4: it is unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: And it's one of those things too where it's like

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Speaker 2: I've also worked up I can put my glasses a

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Speaker 2: lot of times.

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Speaker 4: When you talk about allocation and like people using a

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Speaker 4: resource in different ways, there's like some nuance and some

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Speaker 4: gray area. But I think this is like one case

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Speaker 4: in which there's most folks agree that there's a bad

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Speaker 4: actor here, and it's these boats that have this enormous footprint.

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Speaker 2: Isn't this happening to most fish cotton nets? Right? They

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Speaker 2: have a charter and a license to catch a cod,

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Speaker 2: but they catch all kinds of species and they can't

359
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 2: do anything with it because they're not allowed to, so

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Speaker 2: they just check it back in the water dead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's common, and there are a lot of like

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Speaker 3: like you know, like salmon per saying in Alaska, why

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00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: it's very responsible fishery. But some of this stuff is egregious.

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Speaker 3: So this is all the stuff this guy's was referred

365
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: to point in the news. So here's an article. Here's

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Speaker 3: an article about the Louisiana Spills. Three massive fish spills

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Speaker 3: that coated waves and beaches off the southwest coast of

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Speaker 3: the Louiana last week has renewed calls for title restrictions

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Speaker 3: on the Man Hayden industry Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: How do you say, man Hayden, Man Hayden.

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Speaker 3: Two men Hayden fishing companies dumped and estimated eight hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty thousand that's more than I'd catch it a

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Speaker 3: full weekend of fishing and estimated eight hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: thousand fish in the waters off Cameron Parish during three

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Speaker 3: incidents over four days. The fish form rotting rafts that

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Speaker 3: either floated into deeper water washed up by the thousands

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Speaker 3: near Holly Beach, one of the few communities in the

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Speaker 3: sparsely populated parish.

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Speaker 1: Amid the dead.

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Speaker 3: Amid the dead man Hayden also called pogy, were hundreds

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Speaker 3: of red fish, and then it gets into contributing to

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Speaker 3: sharp redfish population declines, that the industry is contributing these

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Speaker 3: red fish declines, and there's photos of just beaches littered

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Speaker 3: with the stuff. These companies are now required they're supposed

385
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Speaker 3: to go around and clean up all their dead fish.

386
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Speaker 3: The first of the three incidents happened on September eleven,

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Speaker 3: when the net of a vessel fishing for omega ripped

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Speaker 3: and spilled an estimated two hundred thousand dead fish about

389
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Speaker 3: two miles off east of Cameron Bar. The other two

390
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Speaker 3: incidents happened on September fourteenth. Another vessel released three hundred

391
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Speaker 3: and fifty thousand fish after its net broke. Around the

392
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Speaker 3: same time, a West Bank vessel caught quote an unmanageable load.

393
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Speaker 3: Rather than lose the whole catching the net, the captain

394
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Speaker 3: decided to let part of the catch go. They dumped

395
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Speaker 3: between one hundred thousand and three hundred thousand dead fish

396
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Speaker 3: on the beach. Follows up from the summer before when

397
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 3: they dumped a million dead Manhattan near Holly Beach Men Hayden.

398
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Speaker 6: Near Holly Beach. Mind boggling numbers there, really is. I

399
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 6: just looked at the photo. That's insane. Yeah, that is insane.

400
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: It's really something, all right. That's all.

401
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: I know on that happy note.

402
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 3: So, uh, tell me, uh, what what was your You

403
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 3: you described that you grew up in what you call

404
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 3: the preppy neighborhood.

405
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 2: No, I I grew up in I was born in Alexandria,

406
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: outside DC, but my father had a business and I

407
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: had relatives that lived in Richmond, and I could not

408
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: understand that why Richmond was so goddamn different than where

409
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 2: I grew up, because it's I always say that when

410
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: you get to Richmond or Winchester, it's two hours south

411
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: of two hours west of Northern Virginia or DC area.

412
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: That's like to me, where the South actually begins. Then

413
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: everything else is the mid Atlantic. It's basically the North.

414
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: So I lived in Northern Virginia. But all I did

415
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: playing All I did was play golf when I was

416
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: a kid. Yeah, it was your your old males in

417
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: the golf business. Yeah, it's crazy golf. Now. I picked

418
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: it up again during the pandemic after maybe thirty years.

419
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: I'm not playing. Hold are you turn forty six? Yeah?

420
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: He didn't play for no like, yeah, I gotta do

421
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: the math re quick. Fourteen years old when I stopped

422
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: playing competitively, but I played many tournaments, mostly you know

423
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: in the South.

424
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 1: Yeah you were, you were a child competitive golfer.

425
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Most.

426
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: I always say, it's pretty good. I mean it's been

427
00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: pretty good.

428
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. When the Ruinia State Championship a couple of years

429
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: when I always say my old man was the Now,

430
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 2: if you go to a golf tournament or any golf course,

431
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: you're going to see a really Korean dad yelling at

432
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 2: his kid. I always say, my dad was the first.

433
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: He pioneered dad, Oh yeah, oh yeah, because he wanted

434
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: you to be he.

435
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: Wanted to be like good.

436
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. He wanted me to be a pro golfer. So,

437
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: you know, I had three brothers an older sister, but

438
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: I you know, supposedly I had the most talent amongst everybody.

439
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: So he really pushed me. What was what was his

440
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: How was he in the golf business?

441
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: He's a supply, like a distributor.

442
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he got so. He came to America nineteen sixty three,

443
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: which is funny because most people they had the they

444
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: repeal the Chinese Exclusion Act, the Immigration Act, so all

445
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: of a sudden you had a lot of Koreans coming

446
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: in that were mostly academics, right, and engineers. My dad

447
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: was not any of those. My dad just hustled and

448
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: he came here and didn't speak any English and he

449
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 2: got in. That's a whole nother story how he got

450
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: a visa, but he came here in nineteen sixty three,

451
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: not an academic, and he worked in restaurants.

452
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: And where did he come from? What part of Korea?

453
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: Born in North Korea curious. Yeah, so my mother as well.

454
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: She lived in Kessong. So my mom's side came from

455
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: extraordinary wealth. My dad came from real hardcore Christians, like

456
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 2: from nothing really, so polar opposites. And when you say

457
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: North Korea now people are like, oh, that's but they

458
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: don't understand. That was like Vermont, you know, you know,

459
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: and now it's not so hey.

460
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: Here in North Korean now is like a Dennis Rodin.

461
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he came here with nothing, and you know,

462
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: he just worked in restaurants for like twenty five years.

463
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: He worked his entire life in restaurants for the most

464
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: part in America, and then somehow got into the golf business. Mm.

465
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: And uh, that's what it all happened. Yeah, what was

466
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 2: when you were raised?

467
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: What was what was your awareness of outdoor you know,

468
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 3: not when I say outdoor, I mean of course you

469
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: play golf outdoors, but somehow on outdoorsy in my view,

470
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: what was your awareness of fishing?

471
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: And we would go crabbing, we would be fishing a

472
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: lot in the Chesapeake. I never went fresh water fishing.

473
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: In terms of hunting, my dad had a golf store

474
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: and all of his sales reps wore yeah, they would.

475
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: They just they would take videos of bow hunting and

476
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: I would watch that all the time. They would so

477
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: they would. I remember this guy jc uh Todd, like

478
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: all these guys, they were all hunters. Eddie was the

479
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: repair guy. He also hunted so long ago. And I

480
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: remember when the handheld camcorder became a thing and they

481
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 2: would like, you know, record these things. And in that area,

482
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: especially back then now, it's not Korean dudes or not

483
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: Korean dudes.

484
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: Your dad didn't. He wasn't like your dad didn't just

485
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: hang out with Korean dudes because he was from creat.

486
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: So he hung out with my dad hung out with

487
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: Korean dudes and everybody. But the salespeople were totally different, right,

488
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: And I remember that they really loved they like working there,

489
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: specifically because a lot of the people that would shop

490
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: at the store lived on really large plots of land,

491
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: so they were not only feel so they would not

492
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a good salesperson, you get to

493
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: know everybody, especially repeat customers. Right and at that time,

494
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: and this is how it all happened. Tyson's Corner was

495
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 2: literally farmland. When I moved from my original house where

496
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: I was born, we literally lived on like a farm.

497
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: There's nothing near us, and now Tyson's Corner is just

498
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: like suburban retail sprawl. It's really gross and you would

499
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: never know that it was farmland. And back then it

500
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: started to get very very wealthy too, because it was

501
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: the premier shopping center outside in Washington, d C. So

502
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: McLain Potomac really the suburbs that became very very wealthy

503
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: and huge plots of land. So these people would also

504
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: they're not hunters, they play golf, but they had always

505
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: complain about deers eating something or whatever. So this is

506
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: really what happened. I think one of these guys must

507
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: have got convinced a bunch of other people to learn

508
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: how to sell here. And you're gonna get permission to

509
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: hunt on.

510
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: Land, dude, this is gonna I used to have a

511
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: list of like the most like the most hunting friendliest occupations,

512
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: and I recently met a guy does egg loans. This

513
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: guy's like, listen, you want to talk about permissions. So

514
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: a guy that does agricultural loans working for the usdaars

515
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: because the Baker Asian policy is just absolutely insane. Firefighters

516
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: that weren't four on four off. That's pretty good. But

517
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna add a golf sales rep.

518
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: Golf. Yeah, they probably look really respectable.

519
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 7: You've got always kolo shirt and like, but these guys

520
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 7: would just always when I was the hunting season on,

521
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 7: they would always just go bow hunting and they would

522
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 7: almost sell their services as like we can exterminate right right.

523
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: I remember it as a kid almost happening. I was like,

524
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: and I always asked my parents, like you are nothing,

525
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: what was your what was your what was your reaction

526
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: to it at the time, Like, how did you I

527
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: remember seeing this guy JC. I mean I remember seeing

528
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: a video being like it was so early on I

529
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: even know how he did it. But he's like, Dave,

530
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: check that, check this out. And I mean I that

531
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: was the first time I saw a deer shot with

532
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: bow was on his home video. On his home video.

533
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: I remember I was sitting on a Tripod golf folding

534
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: chair behind the cash register, and I remember exactly when

535
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: it happened.

536
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: Actually, uh yeah, when you're if your old man wanted

537
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: you to get into he wanted you to be a

538
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: professional golfer, meaning I read that as he wanted you

539
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: to live out Yeah, his fantasy.

540
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: Man, I have no idea. How the hell he came

541
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: up with that fantasy? It was proxy. It was like

542
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: a proxy it you're weird.

543
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, when when you when you got into restaurant work

544
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: was his initial thing, Like, oh brother.

545
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: He thought it was what do you call it? A hobby?

546
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: He's such a tech He's like, he's just a hobby.

547
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: But you know, I tried to drop out of college

548
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: to do there, and I didn't know if. I remember

549
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: going abroad and trying to go into cooking school there,

550
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,719
Speaker 2: but I didn't know anything. There was no internet, there

551
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: was no way to stay there. What do you mean

552
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: there in the UK, one of the great chefs of

553
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: all time, Marco Pierre White was literally running a restan

554
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: called Harvey's, maybe like ten minutes away from where I lived.

555
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: I didn't know. But you know, today with the Internet,

556
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't like, Oh, I'm going to try to

557
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: get a job there. I had no idea, so I

558
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: tried to apply. I didn't get in. That was my

559
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: first attempt to enter the color and profession. So you know,

560
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: you want to enter like that. You don't want to

561
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: enter as some dude working at McDonald's. I never got

562
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: a chance to work because I only played golf. The

563
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: only thing I ever did was play golf for like

564
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: fourteen years. While I played competively from age five to fourteen,

565
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: I got recruited to play golf at all the top

566
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: high school prep schools, and I chose to go to

567
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: one good Man. I was pretty good, yeah, and I

568
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: burned out. I burned out. I had a meltdown of

569
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: epic proportions. I was trying to qualify the US Amateur,

570
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: not the US Junior Amater, the US Amateur Sectional qualifying

571
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: was that Robert Trent Jones and Manassas Virginia and I

572
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: on the second eighteen. I had a total meltdown and

573
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: I never recover. I was a huge basketcase. When you

574
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: say a meltdown, you mean like the meltdown the dude

575
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: in Royal Tenim. I actually used that as an example

576
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: in a journalist of the years ago. I was like

577
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: when I saw that, I was like, that was that

578
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: was me?

579
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: Like you had a meltdown, meaning not sort of a

580
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: prolonged I mean you had a meltdown.

581
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: Meltdown oh yeah, oh yeah, like all of a sudden

582
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: Because again this is it gets in the nerdiness of

583
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: golf Robert Trent Jones is one of the longest courses

584
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: in the world, particularly from hole to hole. It's just

585
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: people don't walk it. They play it in a golf cart.

586
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: My caddy didn't show up was my friend Jason Dollard.

587
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: I remember that didn't show up. And I played like

588
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: really well the first eighteen. And it was also like

589
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: a sweltering Virginia hot It was like one hundred plus

590
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: one hundred percent commidity. It's just not nice weather to

591
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: play golf in. And I remember being like, if I

592
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: played well on the second eighteen, I had a shot

593
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: of maybe making the next qualifying round. And I felt bad.

594
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: This guy Jod Moseley, holy shit, he was my second eighteen.

595
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: I haven't thought about you got all the names. I

596
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: haven't thought about this in years. I feel like rain

597
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: Man right now. I think talking about a therapy session

598
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: where you're like you're coming to repressed memories. I think

599
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: talking about all the sales reps triggering something over my head.

600
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: I remember these looking names and years anyway, this guy

601
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: who wound up playing golf at Uva, very good golfer.

602
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: He never he was always so mad at me because

603
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: I should have decued myself, but I kept on playing,

604
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: and I think I was like crying. I don't know

605
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: what happened, but I just had a mental breakdown playing

606
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: golf and I just never recovered from like a kid though,

607
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: man like, but that's all I did. I didn't have

608
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: a one child.

609
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm not criticizing you for having a mental breakdown.

610
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: I mean it's just putting. It's just thrusting yourself into

611
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 3: or your your family. I mean that's just intense. You know, uh,

612
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 3: our little my little boy plays soccer and they there

613
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: was reason I didn't read it, but I heard about it.

614
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: There was recently an email that's a quiet Saturday asking.

615
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: People to chill parents not like a lot of loud cheers.

616
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: You know.

617
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: It's like I can't picture, like it's hard to picture

618
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: driving a you know, like driving a kid to that.

619
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: To man, it happens a lot in golf, like those individuals,

620
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 4: especially where you have to begin at such.

621
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: An immigrant parents too, it's like push push push, you know.

622
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: Man, We've had a whole series of immigrant parents or

623
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: children of immigrant parents. We just had a we we

624
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: just had a guy on who came from Vietnam, Son

625
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 3: Tao who became a uh he's a competitive fly tire,

626
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: like a master fly attire. He came from His parents

627
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 3: came from South Vietnam after the US withdrawal from Vietnam.

628
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: Then we add a Mung chef on who was another

629
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: Cold like a Cold War refugee from among dude who

630
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: was a Cold War refugee from Laos who became an

631
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 3: American chef, And they both talked a lot about immigrant parents,

632
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: where a son Tao.

633
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: Said, there's three ways this can go. You're a doctor,

634
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: you're a lawyer, You're not my kid.

635
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: That's pretty much pretty much the same saying yeah, I

636
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: can totally relate. So me choosing to become a cook,

637
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: it wasn't just for my parents. It was at point

638
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: in my life where I was like, I hate everything.

639
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: I'm doing something that is effectively back then because cooking

640
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: is cool now, it was like social suicide to some degree, right,

641
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: Like in my world, I went to prep school, I

642
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: went all this thing. Nobody I knew would even think

643
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: about becoming a cook. That was ridiculous. That's exactly why

644
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: if you use oh yeah, it was total rebellion. And

645
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 2: then I found out when I started cooking I'm a

646
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 2: hyper competitive person. I wound up playing other sports. I

647
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: never really played team sports, and that got the high

648
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 2: school and I loved it. There was something about working

649
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: in a kitchen, and I'm not listen. Anytime you walk

650
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 2: in a kitchen of any sort, if it's fast food

651
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: or not, it's hard. But when you walk into a

652
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: place that's trying to be one of the very best

653
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: in your town, in the world, it's a different ball game.

654
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: And there was a level of seriousness and competitiveness and

655
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: desire to constantly improve that resonated with me simultaneously. All

656
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: of these professionals that I was looking at as a

657
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: DEMI gods. Almost everyone was dead serious but also the

658
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 2: funniest motherfucker I've ever come across. And probably couldn't do

659
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: their laundry properly because they didn't know how to do it.

660
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: Their life outside of the kitchen was in total shambles.

661
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: But you put them in whites, put them ready for service.

662
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: They were like f one race car drivers, you know.

663
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 2: And I love that dichotomy, and I love that it

664
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: was everyone came from all sorts of upbringings, backgrounds, parts

665
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: of the world. It was coming from like this homogenized

666
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: background that I sort of grew up and this was

667
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: the polar opposite, and I loved it, you know, getting

668
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: to work with people that didn't speak English, you know,

669
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: people that just immigrated from Mexico, or what I did

670
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: see with working with a lot of the prep teams

671
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 2: and the dishwashers. They always remind him of my dad,

672
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: that hard work mentality. It was like, this is the

673
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: only job they can do, so hopefully they do it

674
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: so well that their kids don't have to do. Yeah.

675
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: That that that perspective, I think is something that is

676
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 3: lost on a lot of people. I think, like I

677
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 3: saw it my own, my own dad, you know, he

678
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 3: never finished high school. Right, But there's this like but

679
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 3: I just don't know if that idea that I'm struggling

680
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: for words because it's hard thing to phrase up, but

681
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: that idea that I'm I'm like sucking hind titty right

682
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 3: now so that you don't have to. Yeah, as I

683
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: think that that families or however you track families and lineages,

684
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: at some point in time you get out of that,

685
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: right and then and then it's like the I worry

686
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: that that you create like a decline, like a decline

687
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: of the empire because like right now for me to

688
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: in any way ever act like I'm sucking hind titty

689
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: so that my kid don't have to. I mean, I

690
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: have the you know, as my wife says, man, you

691
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: better be careful who you complain to, right, is so

692
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: like to see and then my kid's not gonna like

693
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 3: I can run around and look at sacrifices, you know,

694
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: I'll run around look at sacrifices. Like my dad was

695
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: raised by Italian immigrants, fought in the war, right, grew

696
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 3: up super super poor, and that created like a like

697
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: a drive, right, and then you wonder like what happens next?

698
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: Like do they that?

699
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 3: Because that every everything is is opulence and decay. Man,

700
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: I guess that's a hard part of So my kids

701
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: aren't listening.

702
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: How do you as a parent that institute some kind

703
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: of struggle that's not like crazy?

704
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: You know, we do it through just.

705
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: Chores and discipline and long hikes and shitty experiences and

706
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: whatever whatever. It's manufactured in some way it's manufactured. I

707
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 3: found someonest recently, I'll take my kids to do something,

708
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: they're like, why do I have to do this? You know,

709
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: and sometimes say that let's just so you can hang out.

710
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: With cool people.

711
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: When you get older, theyn't appreciate it.

712
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: They'll appreciate your tenacity. Yeah, man, that's it's like it's

713
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: it's man, you have to manufacture it.

714
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: It's not. It's not like that.

715
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: It's you somehow move beyond.

716
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you worry about what happens when when you've moved

717
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: beyond the struggle. I mean, you know, you gotta be

718
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 3: careful who you bring up the unibomber around. But that

719
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: was one of the Unibomber's big gripes was that everybody

720
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 3: had it's to damn easy now, and it gave us

721
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 3: all this room for all of our neurotic behavior.

722
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: Now that he wasn't a little bit near.

723
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: There could have been other ways you could have communicated

724
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: that many other ways. Yeah, I know, inheritance, inherited success

725
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: is very difficult. You know, it's just as difficult as

726
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: I would imagine inherited wealth.

727
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: Right, it's a curse. Yeah, it's like just gonna be

728
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: worried now. Okay, I want to keep going. I don't

729
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: want to hang up on that one. Earlier were telling

730
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 3: me you in your training as a chef, you wound

731
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 3: up in Japan. Yeah, and you're telling me how you

732
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: wound up somehow they had it peg that you were

733
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: interested in prepping turtles. Yeah, this is this is like

734
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 3: some kind of weird misunderstanding.

735
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 2: I've worked at Japan a bunch, you know. First time

736
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: I was not cooking, I was teaching English. Then I

737
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: come back and long story cut short. Second time around,

738
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: I'm working in Japan cooking and then I open up

739
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: a restaurant and I come back and they invite me

740
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: because now I'm, you know, a person of note or successful,

741
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: and they invited a bunch of chefs, no. Three or

742
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: four of us to come down. And we're in Kyoto

743
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 2: right where there's restaurants that are four hundred years older. Wow,

744
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: older than America. Right, there is a restaurant that's almost

745
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: a thousand years older.

746
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: You're kidding.

747
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: No, I remember being at a bar in uh I

748
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 3: remember being in a bar in Oxford and someone pointing out,

749
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: this bar has been in business longer than your country

750
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: has existed.

751
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: Like, I never thought it makes total sense about it.

752
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: Never thought of that. I don't know, I just never

753
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: thought of Japan. Food hasn't changed in like a millennia. Crazy, right,

754
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: especially the food in Kyoto.

755
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: Wow, is it good?

756
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: It's it's it's not just good, it's it's like going

757
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: to the Library of Alexandria almost for food.

758
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 8: Right.

759
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: They're like maintaining traditions that go back hundreds of years.

760
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: I remember I had nothing to do with the kitchen,

761
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: but one of the farms there that a lot of

762
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: the places use. I was eating strawberries and it was

763
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: like dead winter and it didn't look fancy. In fact,

764
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: it looks sort of dilapidated, but you eat these strawberries.

765
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: And I was eating strawberries and I was like, that's

766
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: like the best strawberry ahead of my life, like, and

767
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: then he's like, oh. The farmer's like, oh, eat this

768
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: one over here, under this other pile of stuff. It

769
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: tasted totally different, and he's telling me why it tastes different.

770
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, I have no idea because of the translator,

771
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: and I'm like, why does it taste good? And then

772
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: the translator goes, oh, because he's like the four pink

773
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: generation farmer. No joke. Right, When you start thinking about

774
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: it that way, it's like, oh, this person knows so

775
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 2: much more about growing fruits than anybody else. Yeah, particularly

776
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: in that area, probably not as good if you moved,

777
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of times over. But in that

778
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: there are nobody's going to grow stuff better than this guy.

779
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: And when you understand that, that longevity is incredible, because yeah,

780
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: you know, you go to most Americans, man, they can't

781
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: you get bagged for generations. They're like a little hazy

782
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: on what country they might have come from.

783
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't even have to go that far.

784
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: It's teen generations. So I think when I got there again,

785
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: I was I think about all that I learned there

786
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: and what I saw. But one of the things I

787
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: got somehow communicated was oh, Chef Chang, he wants to

788
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: learn how to you know, cook soupon, which is Japanese

789
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: soft shell turtles. And I was like, cool, I want

790
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: to learn it one day, And then the day after the.

791
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 9: Day, I was just like, there must be some misunderstanding.

792
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 9: I'm never going to cook this way. Yeah, I've never

793
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 9: picked it. Sense, how walk me through? Like what is

794
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 9: the what is there?

795
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: What is the preparation? So you take these things they're

796
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: like yellow or white and they have like sort of

797
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: a soft shell and then they're clear. I mean, how

798
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: many pounds is one of these things. I mean probably

799
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: like four pounds. They can't be bigger. But I don't

800
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: even at the tiny ones. I don't even know if

801
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: they're farm raised not. No, they're they're wild, and then

802
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: they're their diet is cleaned, so it's like and then

803
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: you take the thing and there's like not almost like

804
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: a thin skewer got pointed, and you sort of agitate

805
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: the hell out of the head until it bites it yep,

806
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: and then you grab it with your left hand and

807
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: it's like this, and it's again you're like pretty traumatic

808
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 2: because it's very phallic seeming. And then you basically yank

809
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: the head as far as can go and you take

810
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: a you know, short deba like a Japanese butcher knife

811
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: in you you slice it right in front of your

812
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 2: groin area. And it was very weird.

813
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: Oh, I got.

814
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: To yourself almost right, and I was like, this is

815
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: not I don't First of all, that was a lot

816
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 2: to process, just killing the chartle and then you cut

817
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: around it pop off the shell and I don't remember

818
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 2: we're talking about the organs. I just remember it all

819
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: feeling like it was moving, like it was an alien.

820
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very water inside.

821
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: And anatomy that I just I don't even know what

822
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: was what. You know, everything looked like an intestine, you know,

823
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: what the hell was happening in there? And uh, you

824
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 2: don't need any of that, you know, so you basically

825
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: scoop all that out. But what they really wanted was

826
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 2: the meat under the shell, Like there's like a lining

827
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: of that and the feet right and the neck.

828
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: But mainly what you do is you would blanch it and.

829
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: Then you'd peel the skin off, and then you would

830
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 2: make it into a broth, so any part of meat

831
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: attached to it, you would again chop it up. And

832
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: it's in Kyoto delicacy of this beautiful clean broth soup

833
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: and with like turtle feet basically down there. Yeah, and

834
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: it's lot it was. It's delicious, and I know somebody listening,

835
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: that's probably again I had no idea that Michigan people

836
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 2: late turtles. I just didn't think anybody ate turtles. I

837
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: had no idea. I assure you, it's it's really wonderful

838
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: and it's delicious. So that's that was my I must

839
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: have done like fifty of those that had fill. Yeah.

840
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: I was like, oh so that, uh, what you told

841
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: me earlier. I thought that was like when you're in

842
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: your younger years. No, that happened when I was like thirty. Yeah,

843
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: how did it?

844
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: What did that path look like for you to you know,

845
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: you came out of being a golfer, decided you're going

846
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,479
Speaker 3: to go down and be a cook and a chef.

847
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: At what point did it?

848
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: Did you get where you're going to take the leap

849
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, try to open your own place.

850
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 2: So I think it's important to note, like, go back

851
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: to college. So I went to Trinity College in Hartford.

852
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: I had a great time. I had a wonderful time.

853
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 2: I parted my ass off, and I did terribly in school.

854
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: Would you what were you supposed to studying?

855
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: Anything to get me into law school or investment banking

856
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 2: or anything but that a liberal art school. There's like

857
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred kids nescak New England and what I wound up?

858
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: So you you were being groomed to be a banker or.

859
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: Something like that, right, but yea or something in the

860
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: corporate world. Yeah, and all my friends are doing those things.

861
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: For the most part. From college, I wound up the classes.

862
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 2: I wound up doing really well, and mainly because I

863
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: took these classes because they were like you know, three

864
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: three in the afternoon, you know, like things like that

865
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: were religion and philosophy. And I came from a very

866
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 2: hardcore Presbyterian family. A lot of it was from you know,

867
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 2: my dad's side of the family, and that's where Christianity

868
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: started in Korea, was really North Korea, of all places,

869
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 2: So my dad's side, they were like the first Christians

870
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: in Korea. Like hardcore. That was just how I grew up.

871
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 2: So I was pretty rebellious to that idea as well.

872
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: So I wanted to study why people were religious, and

873
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: I studied a lot of things about philosophy and things

874
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: that were meaningful to me, but really makes you gainfully

875
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: unemployable when you graduate. So there was nothing I could do.

876
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: And besides, those were good grades, but my other grades

877
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: and other classes were terrible, so like I couldn't really

878
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: get jobs that I wanted. So I moved to Jackson,

879
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: Wyoming in the summer ninety nine. That's where I worked

880
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 2: at Jackson Ole Resort Lodge, and that's why I learned

881
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 2: how to fly fish. So I worked shift and I

882
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: just I was like, I'm just going to learn how

883
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: to fly fish. So that's what I did during the

884
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: day times. I would just drive to McCoy Creek by

885
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: myself and I would just figure out how to do that.

886
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: And that's when I caught that bug and moved back.

887
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 2: When I moved to Wakayama to teach English, and I

888
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: only this is just give the example of my personality.

889
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: Everyone's asking me what I was going to do after graduating.

890
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 2: I had no fucking idea. So I went to the

891
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: career fair and I took the first job they offered,

892
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 2: right on the right side of the hall, like I

893
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: camera with the cafeteria where they're setting up all the

894
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: job fair stuff, and it was teaching English. And I

895
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 2: didn't want to teach English, but that's just what I

896
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: did because I could tell someone at least I have

897
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: something to do. Anyway, that was short lived, but that

898
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: was an important moment because when I lived in this

899
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: really suck like hot it was almost like the Jacksonville,

900
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: Florida of Japan, right industrial, super humid, tropical climate. Not

901
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: much to do, but there was only one place that

902
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: only one. There's two restaurants in my small town, and

903
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: one was this ramen shop. And I was like, oh,

904
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: I tasted tastes great ramen for the first time, like real, real,

905
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 2: delicious ramen, and never had anything like that. I've eaten

906
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: a lot of noodles. Is I didn't know, Like I

907
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: didn't know that is ramen. Definitionally Japanese ramyen translates to

908
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: loman from Chinese. Okay, Yeah, that's what I always But

909
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: the origins, like most things in Asia, are from China,

910
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 2: and it's turned into a variety of things and it's

911
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: uniquely Japanese.

912
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: Nowt but it found its origin and it yeah, I mean,

913
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: you know the dried blocks.

914
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: That's the guy that created instant noodles.

915
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So that that the way most Americans is just

916
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: in there, you know, coming of age, encounter ramen as.

917
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 2: You know, like a plastic wrap dry that's not romyen.

918
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that but that, I mean, that's what people know.

919
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 3: And when when you do that, you have the association

920
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,479
Speaker 3: of it being like a Chinese food.

921
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like you know how most Americans probably think

922
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: taco bell is like Mexican food. It's not right. So

923
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, that's what I always say to anybody that's younger,

924
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: is like, you can't connect the dots till after the fact.

925
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: You just got to keep on like chugging along. And

926
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: in the moment when you're doing something, you think you're

927
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 2: a complete failure and everything newing sucks. I had no

928
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: idea that that moment in that crappy town in southern

929
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 2: Japan eating ramyan would come back to be a massive

930
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: moment for me. Anyway, I come back, I try to

931
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: get a desk job. I do terribly. I hate it.

932
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: It's now two thousand, No, right before two thousand, I

933
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: just I had a lot of things happen. Couple, I

934
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: three friends die in a year. There's a lot of

935
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 2: stuff going on, my family, health, all kinds of terrible shit.

936
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I don't want to do

937
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: this anymore. I don't know what I want to do.

938
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: Were you a good cook? No, so even personally, not

939
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: for your friends, cook at all. She's a great cook,

940
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: my mom to her day she died and refused to

941
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 2: give me a recipe. I alwa, I was not, And

942
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: still to this day, I say I'm not a good cook,

943
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, dang, change, you suck at cooking.

944
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: I think I'm not a good cook. I'm a really

945
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: good cook, but it's not something that comes naturally to me.

946
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: So I just I got really drunk at the Christmas part.

947
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: I told all my bosses how much I hated them,

948
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 2: and uh, I literally pulled off off of space. You

949
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 2: know that. You know, I'm just gonna quit. And and

950
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 2: I wanted to burn every bridge possible so I could

951
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 2: never go back to what was a possible corporate job.

952
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: And I didn't know if cooking was going to be

953
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: the thing. But one of the things I learned in

954
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: school was this idea via negativa, which early Christian the

955
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: is gonna be crazy, I'm ready for. Early Christian theologians

956
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: would meditate on how to know God right, But God

957
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: is ineffable. God is impossible to know. So they would

958
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: think about what God was not. God is not that

959
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: cup of tea, God is not that table, and you

960
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: would just go on and on and on, and the

961
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: more you would think about what God is not, you

962
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 2: would get closer to God righte in some weird ways.

963
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I don't know what the hell

964
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 2: I want to do, so I'm just going to try

965
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,959
Speaker 2: a bunch of things. And the more I try, it'll

966
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 2: get me close to what I want to do. I

967
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 2: just got to keep on moving along. And I'd done

968
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: a bunch of jobs in my life, and I was like,

969
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: you know what, I've always wanted to cook. Had a

970
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: few false starts. My dad really tried hard to make

971
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 2: sure I never worked in the culinary profession. I won't

972
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: bore you with some of the stories, but he did

973
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 2: go out of his way to make sure, Like my

974
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: first job, I tried to get a cooking job. He

975
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: like secretly sabotaged it, you know. And now I understand

976
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: my kids wanted to come and cook. I probably do

977
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: the same thing as to goddamn hard. Anyway, I get

978
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: into cooking and go cooking school when I start working

979
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 2: full time immediately and I'm pretty allergic to the work

980
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: at the time. Next thing you know, I'm working like

981
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: I didn't take a day off for like a year.

982
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: I was so immersed in it, and I realized doing

983
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: what kind of food, it's like the technical I was

984
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: working for Geen George of the Mersey Kitchen, and I

985
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: was going to cooking school from eight o'clock to three o'clock,

986
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 2: and I was working from four o'clock to one o'clock

987
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 2: working for John George. Was just sort of like modified

988
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 2: contemporary French food. John George being one of the great

989
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 2: chess from all sauce and he's been a mentor and

990
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 2: a great, great culinary figure. And on the weekends I

991
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 2: started working at Craft for Tom Klichio, just answering phones

992
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: because I wanted to work there, because the crew that

993
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: was assembled there I want bore people at New York

994
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: genealogy of kitchens. And the only way I could get

995
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 2: into that kitchen was answering phones. And they didn't need me.

996
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 2: They did in fact, they did not want me. So

997
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: I just answered phones on the weekends.

998
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: So I literally every front of house phone answering.

999
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 2: It worked every day for like a year till I

1000
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: could get my feet in the door there.

1001
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 5: And uh, exactly, yeah, I'm an I fucking grind man,

1002
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 5: like you need to grind, you know, And uh and

1003
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,919
Speaker 5: I was allergic to work, so I was like, holy shit,

1004
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 5: like I'm working my ass off and I don't know

1005
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 5: if I love it, but like I can't imagine doing

1006
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 5: anything else.

1007
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: So for me, I don't. I think it's bullshit. When

1008
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 2: people say, oh I love what I do, I love it,

1009
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 2: It's like one hundred percent. I think that's a fucking

1010
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: crocod shit. It's like fifty one percent. You love it

1011
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 2: more than you hate it. Yeah, you know, nobody wants

1012
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 2: to get up at like four in the morning of

1013
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: peel potatoes, but you know you do it because it

1014
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: gets just another goal. So I did that and I

1015
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 2: just was like a sponge and it wasn't There are

1016
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: cooks that are much more naturally gifted. What I love

1017
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: about cooking, which is what I tell anybody that it's

1018
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 2: worked for me or anyone that's thinking about doing it.

1019
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 2: If you, if you pour yourself into this, hard work

1020
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: is the greatest equalizer and cooking, if somebody is better

1021
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 2: than you, if you practice and if you put yourself

1022
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: like fully into that situation, you will not only get

1023
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 2: even with that person that you view as I view

1024
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 2: everything as a competitor, because I am just that kind

1025
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: of person, because a golf everything is a fucking competition.

1026
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 2: You will not only even up with that person or peer,

1027
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: you will then exceed that person on hard work alone.

1028
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 3: You know, we had a we We talked to a

1029
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 3: chef recently and his his ticket to success early on

1030
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 3: was that he would he would show up. She said,

1031
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 3: it really differentiated him from.

1032
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 2: But at the time too, it was like, that's my

1033
00:56:52,600 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: secrets and everything else has followed showing up up in

1034
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 2: a job that's so fucking physically tough. Nobody wants to

1035
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: do that work. So I felt lucky because there are

1036
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 2: a lot of people that were so talented and have

1037
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: done amazing things, and I just I feel that was

1038
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 2: an instrumental moment for me.

1039
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: And and.

1040
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: You know the thing is, I I didn't know. Nobody

1041
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: thought I was going to be good. Right. If you

1042
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: if you had to put like odds on anybody in

1043
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 2: that that kitchen, I'm not even I'm not even I'm

1044
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: part of the rest of the field odds, you know

1045
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 2: what I mean, be successful? Right, So they'd be like

1046
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 2: fifteen people in odds of who's going to be very successful.

1047
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 2: I would be not even making up your individual lives.

1048
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: You're in the everybody else. And and I understood that.

1049
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: And for that entire time though, I was just trying

1050
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: to find things that I like to do, and I like,

1051
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: I did eat a lot of noodles, whether it was

1052
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: rhyming or not. Because of where I grew up in

1053
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 2: Northern Virginia, there's amazing Vietnamese population, Koread food, Chinese food.

1054
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: So I ate a lot of delicious things, but you

1055
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: were drawn to the contemporary American and French shit. I

1056
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 2: wanted to was that because that's what you thought success

1057
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 2: would say's got.

1058
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: You what you like to eat?

1059
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: Because that's where the best war. Yeah, yeah, that's where

1060
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: the best war.

1061
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: The cell at that time that really celebrated players were

1062
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: from that world.

1063
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: And there was another chef called out and his name

1064
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: is Alex Lee, and he was this sixth He's a

1065
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: big Chinese guy and Chinese American and he ran Danielle's

1066
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 2: Kitchen and Upper east Side and he was a badass, right,

1067
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: intimidating as fuck. Spoke with the worst fluent French possible

1068
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: in a long Island accent. But all these French chefs

1069
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 2: and Sioux chefs like served him. I was like to

1070
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 2: a lot of Asian kids growing up, like he was

1071
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: the fucking real superstar, right.

1072
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: So I was like all these places you're naming, man,

1073
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: at some point I've been to Like, uh, I've been

1074
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: to these I kind of forgot about it, remember, Like

1075
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: Daniels and like someone hovering like all the time, someone

1076
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: like changing your forks and ship out.

1077
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't want to eat that food at

1078
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: the time, you know what I mean?

1079
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: Was the most like overbearing sort of shuffling of plates

1080
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 3: and shit and like what fork And it's like, my

1081
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 3: goodness withold you people just.

1082
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 2: Go away for a minute. The people eating there and

1083
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 2: the food you're making and the people making it very different.

1084
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: But the reason why people are making that food and

1085
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 2: drawing that talent because you're working with the best ingredient,

1086
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 2: the best techniques. And back then, to learn how to

1087
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: make any dish, like one dish, you had to like

1088
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: work a year there. You couldn't go online and learn anything.

1089
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got you.

1090
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 2: You actually had to like spend time and maybe the

1091
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 2: chef would finally teach you how to make something. You know.

1092
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: That's the way it was that.

1093
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, to do a thing for future generations to understand,

1094
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: is there should be like a you're like a Library

1095
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: of Congress project where you try to future generations didn't

1096
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: understand how shit went before the internet, do you know

1097
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: what I mean? I think about that a lot, like

1098
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: because people are going to lose track of if you

1099
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: wanted to know something, it was hard you could it

1100
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: was hard to find You didn't know it at the

1101
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: time because everybody thinks that what they exit their existence

1102
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: is totally normal. But if you wanted, I remember like

1103
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: talking about a cooking thing, trying to figure out like

1104
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: how mountain men would cook beaver tails.

1105
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: Dude, did it take you four years to figure that

1106
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 2: shit out?

1107
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: Now it's like my kid can figure it out.

1108
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: Watch some YouTube video, watch one of year of the video. Well, yeah,

1109
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: just everything. It's just like it's just so many years

1110
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 2: of knowledge that was hard earned is now in this

1111
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:43,479
Speaker 2: five minute edited video.

1112
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, the comedian Hotels his name Joey Diaz, talking about

1113
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 3: he's trying to describe dating, you know, before the Internet.

1114
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: He's talking about how you used to have to go

1115
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 3: up and throw rocks at their window to try to

1116
01:00:58,640 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 3: wake them up.

1117
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, to learn how to make shit

1118
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: like you couldn't it was. It sounds wild, but yeah,

1119
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: you would have to work at a restaurant to learn

1120
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 2: how to do one thing.

1121
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, your mom, your mom had like six cookbooks, and

1122
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: if someone made some shit in your house is because

1123
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: of one of those six cookbooks.

1124
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 2: I mean, think about even on the cookbook level, right, like,

1125
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: at the time, a lot of the progressive stuff was

1126
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 2: happening in France, and I don't won't bore your audience

1127
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 2: with like food neurdery on the chefs, but I would

1128
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 2: have friends working at some of the top places you

1129
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: would want to be at. They would send postcards right

1130
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: about like, Hey, I'm learning this, but there's not enough

1131
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 2: to fucking fit on a postcard about like what the

1132
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 2: hell is happening? You know? So I do think we

1133
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 2: were talking about inherited success or wealth or knowledge. I

1134
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 2: think that that generation everything proceeded in the Internet. There's

1135
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: a level of creativity that is better in that generation.

1136
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 2: I'm not saying cooks today are fucking more knowledge? Are

1137
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 2: they know more? And I'm not trying to I can

1138
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: imagine all these people, Oh fuck you, dab, you're telling

1139
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: we're just as good you are. But the originality and

1140
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: creativity of the older generation from you know, pre Internet,

1141
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: is because we had to struggle what the fuck was

1142
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: happening to think about it, use our imagination. We'd go

1143
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 2: to restaurants after service and just look at their menu,

1144
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: be like, how do you think they're making them? What

1145
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: do you think that's sauces? Oh, I've never heard about that,

1146
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: and we then go to Chinatown, drink some beers, eat

1147
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 2: some food, and talk about how do you think that

1148
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 2: dish is being made? It was awesome.

1149
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now that.

1150
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: Camaraderie and talking about it and imagining it then not

1151
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: on a YouTube video. While that's amazing, that difficulty of

1152
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: acquiring that information is a beautiful thing. Yeah.

1153
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 3: Another one, just to drive that point homecause I remember,

1154
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 3: long ago before the internet was like populated the way

1155
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: it is, really struggling with when you'd see the glaze

1156
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: to roast the ducks, the Chinese style, the hanging, and

1157
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: just to be like, if I could only know.

1158
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 2: Chinese, yeah, I would tell you one thing. That's one

1159
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: of those things that even if you can see the video,

1160
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: it's still hard to do.

1161
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: Hard to just be like, how would anyone ever figure

1162
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: that out?

1163
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: So hard and so delicious? But yeah, man, like I

1164
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 2: I I just wanted to learn how to make noodles.

1165
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 2: So if I was a better cook, I probably would

1166
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: have gone to France because a chef would have said, hey,

1167
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 2: you're so good, I'm going to send you to my mentor.

1168
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: But no chef I work for was ever going to

1169
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: do to me, you know, because I was a hot mess.

1170
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 2: I was just not good enough. So I just said,

1171
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna focus on something where nobody's focusing on and

1172
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 2: that was romy weirdly enough, that was my thing. I

1173
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 2: would get, you know, books from Japan. I'd get going Craiglist,

1174
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 2: being like, can anyone translate these books? And I'd put

1175
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: it the time and understand what exactly what's happening. I

1176
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 2: would get magazines know what was happening in Ramyen and

1177
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: Japan at the time. And I got a job working

1178
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 2: in Japan. That's a whole nother I lived in a

1179
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: homeless shelter. It was fucking wild because that's the only

1180
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: place I could afford to live, right, But I learned

1181
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: so much there, and I learned a lot about Japanese

1182
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 2: culture and how fucking insane it is and fucked up

1183
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 2: it is living with homeless people. That's a whole nother

1184
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 2: podcast that I don't think anybody should want to listen to.

1185
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 2: But you know, that proved to be because I wasn't

1186
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 2: good enough. I went somewhere else and I got some

1187
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 2: domain expertise that literally nobody had. It gave me an advantage,

1188
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 2: so come back and at that time, that you define

1189
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 2: it in your head as noodles ramen. I just want

1190
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: to run, but I wound up making soba. Tom Kliki

1191
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 2: and Marco Kanroy helped me. Got a job at the

1192
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 2: park Head Hotel where that lost in translation movie happened.

1193
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 2: So when I watched that, all those people around there are.

1194
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 8: Real employees that I, oh, really yeah, even the swimming instructor,

1195
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 8: I was like, I knew all those people, and I

1196
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 8: learned so much.

1197
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: And when I learned what I learned at that hotel

1198
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 2: was instrumental. Because one of the restaurants, the New York Rill,

1199
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: they were serving food from uh, contemporary New York restaurants,

1200
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 2: but made with Japanese ingredients. I'm like, wow, that's crazy.

1201
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: So that flipped the switch for me a little bit.

1202
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: I was like, wait a second, Like I don't know

1203
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 2: exactly how this is gonna play out down the road,

1204
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna remember this because I thought you'd have

1205
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 2: to make everything as effectively. If you're gonna make a

1206
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 2: tiny food, it's got to be with the tinan ingredients.

1207
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 2: That like shattered it for me. Anyway, I come back

1208
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 2: and uh two thousand and three, I come back to

1209
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 2: America and at the time. This is like peak, like

1210
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 2: beginning of peak fine dining in America, beautiful time in

1211
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 2: American dining. In New York, you had Thomas two thousand

1212
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: and four to twenty fifteen, So at a ten year

1213
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 2: period was like peak fancy fine dining. But that was

1214
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: the beginning of it, and you had many great restaurants

1215
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 2: opening up, and I just was trying to get a

1216
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 2: job at per Se Thomas Keller coming back to New

1217
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 2: York after many years opening up the French Laundry, and

1218
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 2: a lot of my chef that I worked for was

1219
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 2: gonna be the chef there anyway. In the meantime, the

1220
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: people that I used to work for said, you got

1221
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: to work for Andrew Carmelinie Cafe Blue because they like

1222
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: that's how it is, like, you know, people trying to

1223
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 2: make sure that you develop and do a great chef

1224
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: and I get my ass kicked there. It's so fucking hard,

1225
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 2: so fucking hard.

1226
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 3: But give people an idea that that haven't worked in

1227
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 3: this atmosphere. What does getting your ass kicked look like?

1228
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 2: To this day, It's the hardest job I've ever had.

1229
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 3: And but like what like if you said I got

1230
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: my ass kicked working at the salt mine, so I'd

1231
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 3: be like, I could picture that.

1232
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 2: It was intentionally run lean. So when I say ass kicking,

1233
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 2: it's not physically getting your ass kicked. It's the workload.

1234
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: That's a fucking kicking the ass, but a workload of

1235
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 2: physical Yeah, most places today would probably have I would

1236
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 2: say that that kitchen you were, each person was doing

1237
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 2: the workload with probably three people in this essence, while

1238
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: there was a butcher, that was about the only help

1239
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: you would get. A lot of the bigger kitchens, you

1240
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 2: have a komi, maybe two komies, like an intern, right,

1241
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: then coll me comm i s on the French brigade system,

1242
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: so an assistant. Then you have a like you're running

1243
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 2: like the meat station. You might have a entre metier,

1244
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 2: so someone doing your vegetables inside. So like you're the manager.

1245
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 2: It's almost like a bank, right, you're the managing director

1246
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 2: of your group, right, but all these other people work

1247
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 2: for you, and in a kitchen, it's all top down.

1248
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: So if you're working the saucier station, you're gonna have

1249
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 2: all these other people in a big kitchen doing really

1250
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 2: high end dining. Cafe. At the time, it was intentionally spartan,

1251
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 2: like there was nothing that worked equipment wise that was

1252
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: done on purpose, right. It was as bare boned on

1253
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:21,839
Speaker 2: as an operation staff wise intentional right, because it produced

1254
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 2: a certain mentality of like fuck everybody, fuck you, fuck

1255
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 2: the station, and fuck everything everything by our sheer mental

1256
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 2: like prowess, our technique. With everything working against us, we're

1257
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 2: gonna fucking wind. And it was that that kind of

1258
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 2: hard cad. It was like, I don't I never want

1259
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 2: to approach anything to like special Forces, but that's what

1260
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: it felt. And I was like that kind of fucking

1261
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 2: hardcore ship. I was like, Jesus is so fucking hardcore.

1262
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 2: And it's also dumb shit. I remember, like, okay, like

1263
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 2: I got a bundle of sugar cane. You ever break

1264
01:08:58,080 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 2: down sugar cane?

1265
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: Well, I mean as no, I mean, now there's any pressure,

1266
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 3: and I've seen it done, you know, like I've husted

1267
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 3: rice too, but I mean I rust like a handful

1268
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 3: of right.

1269
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 2: So this menu and it's awesome, man, and I love

1270
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,799
Speaker 2: a see and Danielle. It's just like was a formative

1271
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: period for so many of us. And in that kitchen,

1272
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 2: you know, rich Teresy, Mari Carbone opened up the car

1273
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 2: like toresa carbone. So many cooks came.

1274
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: Over come around to why why are you breaking down

1275
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: sugar game?

1276
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 2: So like each station is you have four menus and

1277
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 2: a special menu. So cooking so stupid. Where the better

1278
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 2: you are, the more work you get too, right, which

1279
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 2: is crazy. So in these four tasting menus, you have

1280
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 2: a voyage, you have a seasonal, you got a vegetarian,

1281
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: and then you got a classic, right, a classic French menu,

1282
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 2: and plus you have daily specials. You are responsible for

1283
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 2: like ten to twelve dishes potentially with nobody helping you out,

1284
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 2: and you got to feed and you might be you're

1285
01:09:55,439 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 2: working one service and dinner service on five of those days,

1286
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: so you need to prep out for maybe two hundred

1287
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:10,839
Speaker 2: and fifty people a day potentially, you know, ten courses

1288
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 2: for two hundred and fifty people. That's a lot of

1289
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: work and a lot of inch kit work, knife skills

1290
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And everybody's that way. Everybody's got

1291
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: this crazy workload. Going back to the sugarcanes, it was

1292
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 2: called sugarcane shramp on the Village menu, and it would

1293
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 2: come in. I would dread about it the next morning

1294
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 2: because I'd be like shit, we don't have a band

1295
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: saw that would have made it easy. I have no

1296
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 2: tools whatsoever to break down sugarcane. You know what I

1297
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 2: have have two cleavers in a mouth. Now only do

1298
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 2: you have to break down all the sugarcane which you

1299
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 2: haven't seen. It's like, you know, eight feet tall and

1300
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 2: there's like one hundred of them. That's yeah, so fucking

1301
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: it's just so stupid, huh. And you're reducing that to

1302
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 2: like skew it. You break it down, and it's got

1303
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 2: to be a perfect toothpick that can skewer a shrimp.

1304
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: And they're buying it like like some dude cut it

1305
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: out and.

1306
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 2: Eats like an hour's worth of work in one bite.

1307
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 2: You're like, fuck, oh kid, so like shit like that, right,

1308
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 2: and and like that's just one dish, and everybody there

1309
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 2: had super labor intensive dishes. Is the money good inness

1310
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 2: at this level?

1311
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: No?

1312
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 2: I think I got paid eight dollars twenty five cents

1313
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: an hour.

1314
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: So you're hourly.

1315
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and what's the promise? Nothing? No one gets

1316
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 2: into this missiness to make money. You just want to

1317
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 2: be have street crab. You want to be the fucking

1318
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 2: baddest best person there. Yeah, anyway, and your social life

1319
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 2: is proud to be baked into it too.

1320
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 1: In a weird way.

1321
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 2: There's no social life, that's what I'm saying. It's like

1322
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: just drinking.

1323
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just meaning that when you fall into the

1324
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: I never worked in the restaurant business book, when you

1325
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: fall into this world, that sort.

1326
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 2: Of becomes your It's not that way anymore. Oh, it's

1327
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 2: not no way. That's who you hang with, that's how

1328
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,760
Speaker 2: you date like that, thankfully. In one regard, the work

1329
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 2: life balance is way better, and it's just the way

1330
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 2: it was back then and it's not anymore.

1331
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: But man, we would work like the industry's little friendlier.

1332
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 2: Oh it's become way more professionalized. Yeah, but I don't

1333
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 2: there's no bigrudging. That's just the way it was, and

1334
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm happy that I was able to like experience that.

1335
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 2: But man, we would get off work at like I

1336
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 2: don't know, break everything down one o'clock. We would get

1337
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 2: there maybe six o'clock, six thirty. So sometimes like you

1338
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 2: go out just enough and then you'd go back, you drink,

1339
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 2: and then you would sleep in the locker room and

1340
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 2: wake up and just do it again. Surely, Yeah, that's

1341
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 2: not hyperpole like it was a lot back then because

1342
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 2: no one cared about it. It was like the least

1343
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 2: cool profession. There was nothing fabulous about cooking, and it

1344
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 2: was a lifestyle that people chose. And I was not

1345
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 2: good in that kitchen either. I was very I struggled.

1346
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 2: It was so hard for me. Well, what made you

1347
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 2: not good? I wasn't as good as everyone there. It's good, fast,

1348
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 2: good as everything. Good is also mentally just being organized,

1349
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: never being in the weeds, not making any mistakes, being

1350
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 2: efficient with your time. You know when I can see

1351
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,719
Speaker 2: it when it's like a dance, right and like literally

1352
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 2: a professional choreograph dance, a ballet. Almost when a perfect

1353
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: kitchen is running, everyone's doing their thing. There's no talking,

1354
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 2: there's humor. Health kitchen, in my opinion, is always someone

1355
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 2: making another person laugh, right. Laughter is a huge part

1356
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 2: of it. But at the same time, it's like you're

1357
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 2: seeing a good team. It's efficiency. Nobody's moving in a

1358
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 2: way that you don't have to. It's efficiency movement. It's

1359
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 2: dishes coming up perfect, everything's tasted and great, all these things,

1360
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 2: And for me, I just it wasn't wasn't my was

1361
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 2: my bag And I had a lot of shit happening

1362
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 2: in my life too, right, So I was like, I

1363
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: gotta fucking unplug. I can't do this. So in that intro,

1364
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 2: m I go home, help out at home my mom,

1365
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, fuck this, I'm just gonna

1366
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna try to you know. You know. September

1367
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 2: eleventh happened too. Yeah, that was also a big thing.

1368
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 2: You were in the city then, oh yeah, yeah, that

1369
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: was Like I remember coming out, I was in the

1370
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 2: basement of craft. I mean, even though it was a

1371
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 2: year and a half, so after spending eleventh like three

1372
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 2: months later, New York was still fucked up for like

1373
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 2: eighteen months twenty four months after it. But I remember

1374
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: I'll never had leaving like seventeenth Street Meting Square and

1375
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 2: seeing people covered in dust. Yeah, I was just like,

1376
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 2: what the fuck's happening, and so all these things And

1377
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 2: again I had all these things happen. Sure it wasn't

1378
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 2: like for me. It was difficult, and I just was

1379
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 2: like I needed something else to do. So I was like,

1380
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 2: fuck it. I was extremely depressed, and I was like,

1381
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: you know what. A lot of my friends at the

1382
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 2: time were going to business school. It was like twenty

1383
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 2: five to twenty six, and I remember like, Oh, they're

1384
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 2: getting loans out or they're getting figuring out. Oh, it's

1385
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 2: probably like two hundred grand for two years. I was like,

1386
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 2: I'll figure that out on my own. I'm gonna even

1387
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 2: though I have no idea what I'm gonna do, even

1388
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 2: though I've never even achieved, right, I've been cooking profession

1389
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 2: four and a half years, nobody would do anything like that.

1390
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 2: I also knew that if I continued in that path

1391
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 2: of what it was, the traditional way how people open

1392
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 2: restaurants was exactly this way, especially if you worked at

1393
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 2: a place like Danielle or Cafe Ballut. A wealthy patron

1394
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 2: would come in many times, get to know the chef

1395
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 2: and be like, hey, you know, I want to open

1396
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 2: up at a restaurant in Palm Beach, you know what

1397
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 2: anyone and the chef will be likeyeah, I got a

1398
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 2: great cook. Here you go.

1399
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: That's how you get your own opportunity, and their motivation

1400
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: is in some respects social.

1401
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 2: Exactly, and for a cook, that's how you got a restaurant.

1402
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 2: So you became a chef. There was this is a

1403
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 2: different time and era, even though it was that long ago,

1404
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 2: and I remember looking again, I'm a very competitive person.

1405
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 2: Like the field, I'd be like, I think I'm like

1406
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 2: number fourteen here, honestly.

1407
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 1: Like it's gonna take fourteen patrons.

1408
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 2: And even then I don't think i'd be nominated, right.

1409
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 2: I was like, there's like fourteen people ahead of me

1410
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 2: talent wise on the ladder, so I gotta just do

1411
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 2: something else. And that's when I was like, screwed. I'm

1412
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 2: going to open up a ramen bar, a noodle bar

1413
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 2: which didn't exist, and I tried to work. This is

1414
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 2: how where the state was in noodles and ramen in America.

1415
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: In two thousand and three, I had to work at

1416
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 2: Bally's Casino and Landing, New Jersey to work at a

1417
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 2: noodle bar because there was not one on the eastern seaboard.

1418
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 2: It was like it was just to see what it's like.

1419
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 2: But at that time, what years is again, two thousand

1420
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:00,040
Speaker 2: and three.

1421
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: Was there.

1422
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 3: It was kind of like the ethnic explosion. No, so

1423
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 3: was it that that, you know, the the sort of

1424
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 3: cultural elevation of you know, the the Taco truck, the

1425
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 3: bond Me joint.

1426
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 2: It was there. It just wasn't cool, Okay, the gatekeepers

1427
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 2: were still was there not as like not like the

1428
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 2: cool kids were all going to It wasn't yet. Food

1429
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 2: wasn't even cool. There word food. He didn't exist. There

1430
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 2: was no cell phone. There was no cell phone, there

1431
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 2: was no smartphone technology, and there was no chat rooms,

1432
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 2: no blogging. That all happened around two thousand and three.

1433
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 2: Two thousand. Breaking out was hard, and it was all

1434
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,480
Speaker 2: about being in the New York Times and traditional gatekeeping.

1435
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 2: And while it was there, think about how hard it

1436
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,919
Speaker 2: would be to learn in your city when there's no internet.

1437
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,679
Speaker 2: It was so hard. So I mean, I come back

1438
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 2: and we opened up. Nobody wanted to work with me.

1439
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 2: I had to hire. I got my first partner, Kein

1440
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 2: Obanka from Monster dot Com, who his girlfriend saw because

1441
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 2: she was in the corporate job and he had just

1442
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 2: come from Austin, Texas and he wasn't getting the love

1443
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 2: from working. He was trying. He came to New York

1444
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 2: because he wanted to get the street car working out

1445
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 2: the best kitchens too, but they didn't give him any love.

1446
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: So he's like, screw it, like I'll work with you.

1447
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 2: And that's how it all happened, and we almost went

1448
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 2: up business. I raised one hundred thousand dollars and we

1449
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 2: were going out of business. So I felt like at

1450
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 2: that time, every day was like it felt like we're

1451
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 2: not going to make it to the next day. You

1452
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 2: go through your investment, not just day like how I

1453
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 2: was living too, so hardcore and hard But there's a

1454
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 2: I can't remember who wrote this passage, but it's like, hey,

1455
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 2: like everything we did was like a one way ticket.

1456
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,799
Speaker 2: We ain't coming back. And that's how we made every decision.

1457
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 2: And by doing that, we made every decision not supposed

1458
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 2: to do. And some of those decisions were so counterintuitive

1459
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: that they became mainstream decisions today of how you would

1460
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 2: operate a restaurant. So a lot of it was trial

1461
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 2: and error, making mistakes, a lot of luck. We were

1462
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 2: so lucky, and I won't bore you with all the

1463
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 2: different things that happened along the way. About six hundred

1464
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 2: square feet the size of one car garage, and we

1465
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 2: we went off. I remember three months in, I didn't

1466
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 2: even know what sales tax was. Iknew nothing. I remember like, oh,

1467
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 2: I gotta pay taxes on this? What the fuck done

1468
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 2: your business? What I made? You know, it's like so

1469
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:41,679
Speaker 2: so dumb and such a novice at anything that happened,

1470
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,560
Speaker 2: but you know, every day was a war, felt like

1471
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 2: a challenge, and I remember being told that we had

1472
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 2: about two weeks left of cash, right and at the time,

1473
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 2: there's a lot of cancer in my family, and I

1474
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 2: was like, huh, I've seen it happen enough where someone

1475
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 2: has given some kind of like can't diagnosis and then

1476
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 2: they started fucking like shit, like I gotta do things.

1477
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 2: I gotta like live, I'm gonna do anything I can.

1478
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 2: So at that time, I was thinking we were still

1479
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 2: trying to operate in the confines in the structure of

1480
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 2: a traditional restaurant. But when that diagnosis came in that

1481
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 2: we're going to fucking die, We're like, fuck it, fuck it, man,

1482
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 2: let's just go. Let's do whatever the fuck we're gonna do.

1483
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 2: Happened to Coenciwa Spring, So we stopped being whatever we

1484
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 2: thought an Asian noodle bar needed to be. We just

1485
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 2: started to make good fucking food. And that's how it

1486
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 2: all happened. Caught lightning in a bottle. We're blessed to

1487
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 2: have some of the best and brightest working there, and

1488
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 2: it just happened, man, And it was a It was

1489
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 2: a wild time, that's for sure. What was was your

1490
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 2: first place, MoMA Noodle bar. Yeah, one six three First Avenue,

1491
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 2: uh six hundred square feet upstairs, yeah, all in. I

1492
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 2: live next door and that was a lot. I mean,

1493
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 2: that was a long time ago. But there's just no

1494
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: way you could have predicted that it would have happened. Yeah,

1495
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 2: wild wild Rye. At that time. You you probably didn't

1496
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 2: do anything just for the fun of it. Ten years

1497
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 2: of my life, I felt, I honestly would tell myself,

1498
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 2: especially when I I think the important thing that happened.

1499
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,639
Speaker 2: I started getting like mental help too, but I would

1500
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 2: tell myself, I work in a coal mine. That's how

1501
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 2: I viewed my job. I'm working at a coal mine,

1502
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 2: and that's my job.

1503
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 4: Living next door, you probably saw the sunlight every day.

1504
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 2: And I did. I never slept because our kitchen was

1505
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 2: so small and we're be king. We started to get

1506
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 2: super busy. I had to cook all the food at night,

1507
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 2: so from like I would go back, you know, i'd

1508
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 2: probably go to bed, and I'm not going to bed.

1509
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 2: I was at the bars, for sure, but I would

1510
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,600
Speaker 2: wake up and cook things at night in the in

1511
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: the convection of them we had downstairs. And get ready,

1512
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:05,679
Speaker 2: and that happened. God, it's hard for me to rect

1513
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 2: like recall all that happened because it was fucking insane.

1514
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 2: I worked like a crazy person. No, I remember, like nobody,

1515
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 2: I'm not going to fail because I did not work

1516
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 2: as hard as I possibly could. And I remember thinking,

1517
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 2: if I have to, I remember, even before opening it up,

1518
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 2: if I have to declare bankruptcy, then so who cares you?

1519
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter.

1520
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: One way ticket.

1521
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 2: Everything was like, let's go burn. Everything was all in,

1522
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 2: let's go. And you can do that for for only

1523
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 2: so long before it catches up with you.

1524
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think of like now when you

1525
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 3: hear people talk about uh, work life balance and and

1526
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,480
Speaker 3: uh you know this this emerging movement.

1527
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 1: Against perfectionism, right.

1528
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of I think about it

1529
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 2: a lot. Now. I don't live that life and I

1530
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 2: don't even cook professionally really anymore. I do mostly media.

1531
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 2: I sort of needed to. And I don't mean this

1532
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 2: in a fucking terrible way. You know this sounds terrible,

1533
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 2: But all the things that happened in the pandemic, but

1534
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 2: for me, and one of the positives was it helped me,

1535
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 2: like really reset. I have two kids, moved out to

1536
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. We were going to do that anyway, but

1537
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 2: it gave me a lot of time to reflect on

1538
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 2: that pursuit of perfection. And I think about a lot.

1539
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 2: I think about this a lot, particularly with sports. I

1540
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:44,360
Speaker 2: wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. Right. We're

1541
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 2: so dedicated as a culture to at least I was,

1542
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 2: to the pursuit of perfection, to being number one, and

1543
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 2: we celebrate that all these self help books and all

1544
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 2: these books about achieving greatness. Our society is about celebrating

1545
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 2: these few individuals, right that do something extraordinary, But nobody

1546
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 2: ever talks about, like you know, the proverbial metaphorical mountain peak.

1547
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 2: No one ever talks about coming back down. And a

1548
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 2: lot of times I felt like, if you get to

1549
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 2: wherever you're trying to go, oftentimes for me, was you're

1550
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 2: going to celebrate by yourself because maybe nobody wants to

1551
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 2: celebrate with you. Yeah, you know. And I found it

1552
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 2: to be an extremely lonely journey. And I think about

1553
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 2: that a lot about work life balance. Maybe I think

1554
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 2: we've definitely overcorrected over index the other way, but there's

1555
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 2: something to be said about a younger generation be like, no,

1556
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: I don't want that life that sucks. I don't blame them.

1557
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 2: Why would you want to work like the way I did.

1558
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 2: We're going, you know, on the upreast side, ninety hours

1559
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 2: away because the whole country fall part. I know, but

1560
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 2: there's got to be a better balance. And for me,

1561
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 2: balance has always been what how I think about And

1562
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 2: this is again this logical thing I learned in college, right,

1563
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 2: this paradox, Right, I believe balances fully committed to two

1564
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,719
Speaker 2: things simultaneously. It's not about finding an equilibrium fifty to fifty.

1565
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 2: I think you've got to be committed simultaneously the two

1566
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 2: things and understand work life balance. I'm a big believer

1567
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 2: in it. But like we have to also work our

1568
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 2: asses off at the same time, right, trying to find

1569
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 2: a split. I don't know.

1570
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 3: That's a great point man about Uh, that's a great

1571
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 3: point about balance, being that you're committed to two things

1572
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 3: all the way all the time.

1573
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 2: We just look at a scale. Think about the physics

1574
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 2: of a scale.

1575
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the your half one half.

1576
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 3: That when I'm trying to sell myself to my wife,

1577
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 3: I'll point out to her I'm trying to explain that

1578
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 3: she actually has it. You know, it's not as bad

1579
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 3: as it might seem. Yeah, she's lucky to have me,

1580
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 3: I'll point out. I'll be like, dude, you gotta look

1581
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 3: at you know, I'm very dedicated to work and imagine

1582
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 3: the opposite. I'm super dedicated to my family. Imagine the opposite.

1583
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 3: That's gotta be worth something.

1584
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 2: Book, what till you got to split it up by

1585
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 2: fifty percent? You know what I mean. You can't do that.

1586
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: I think that is your balance. Yeah, so, I mean

1587
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 2: I've side thought about that a lot of different ways.

1588
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,679
Speaker 2: That balance I see in food, right, I think perfectly.

1589
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 2: I'm a weird fucking dude, man, I think about things

1590
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 2: in weird fucking ways. Uh, perfectly salted dish is similar

1591
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 2: to a lot of things I've learned over the years,

1592
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 2: particularly from school. But it's not a logical problem. But

1593
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: perfectly salted dish. If you think about if you put

1594
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 2: out ten cups of water each varying scales of salt

1595
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 2: from none to too much somewhere in the middle, what

1596
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 2: is the middle? Is it going to be like ten

1597
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 2: milligrams and ten milligrams of salt and water? No, it's

1598
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 2: going to be what you think when you taste something

1599
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:58,640
Speaker 2: like that's gonna be six maybe it's maybe probably, but

1600
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 2: but the actual moment in your head when you think

1601
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 2: of balance, it's not ah, this scratch that's itched. Oh,

1602
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 2: that's perfect balance. It actually is this living thing in

1603
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 2: the sense of I taste something salty, and this is

1604
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 2: what I try to teach cook. So imagine telling this

1605
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 2: as a cook. There's like, who's eighteen years older, Like,

1606
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about. He's like, you're

1607
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 2: gonna taste it and it's gonna be No, that's under seasoned.

1608
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:28,880
Speaker 2: And then you think about it and you're like, no,

1609
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 2: that's too salty, and then oscillates back to no, I

1610
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:34,160
Speaker 2: think that's I could use more salt, and then you

1611
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,760
Speaker 2: think about it, so it's like, no, that's too much salt.

1612
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 2: When it sea sauce, back and forth, back and forth.

1613
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 2: That's fucking proper salt. It is taste something. It's a

1614
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 2: simple test, and that moment is alive. It's crazy as

1615
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 2: it sounds, and that's what you want. That's fucking balance.

1616
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 2: It is both simultaneous.

1617
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 3: That's good man, that's great. Hey, well, there's one last

1618
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 3: thing I wanted to ask you about it. Talking about

1619
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:16,800
Speaker 3: balance is uh part of what you know, part of

1620
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 3: what a little bit of our behind this is a

1621
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 3: little behind the scenes here. I like to interview and

1622
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 3: I have on gas. I especially love to interview and

1623
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 3: have on gus who've you know, excelled in their fields

1624
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 3: or done something really cool. But what makes them eligible

1625
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:39,560
Speaker 3: is that the litmus tests they have to participate. In

1626
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 3: my mind, they have to participate in the fields, you know,

1627
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 3: the disciplines hunting, fishing, or else's place to just be

1628
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 3: a ship show, you know, there'd be no way to

1629
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:55,080
Speaker 3: control who comes through the doors. So during those years

1630
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: of just hustle and driving yourself, you know, to the

1631
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 3: mental edge, at what point did you When did you

1632
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 3: find fishing like your growing up version of fishing?

1633
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 1: When did you find fishing?

1634
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 2: And what did it?

1635
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 1: What does it come to mean?

1636
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 2: There was a break. I mean when I first started

1637
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 2: fly fishing, what I realized was I liked it because

1638
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 2: you and I did jiu jitsu for a while. So

1639
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 2: I say, it's not chess. It was like jiu jitsu

1640
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:27,560
Speaker 2: with nature. Right, every situation's different, It's constantly changing, and

1641
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 2: no matter how expert you are, if you really are

1642
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:32,599
Speaker 2: thinking about it. You're like, I don't know, fucking shit,

1643
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,920
Speaker 2: like this is impossible. But I'm also an addict and

1644
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:40,919
Speaker 2: I'm adrenaline junkie. And you know when I first understood,

1645
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 2: I caught my first trout and it was like that

1646
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 2: fucking big but I did it on my own. There

1647
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 2: was no guide. It was like the best feeling in

1648
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 2: the world, and I was like, oh, I could do this.

1649
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 2: I like this. I didn't think it was something I

1650
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,360
Speaker 2: was going to continue to do. And I actually, even

1651
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 2: when I'm into Japan, I got like a through eight rod.

1652
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 2: I was going to do it. I never got a

1653
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 2: chance to do that. And when I started cooking, there

1654
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 2: was like three or four years ago I had a

1655
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 2: rod ready to go. Man, I never never went because

1656
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 2: I wasn't near I was in the South, not near

1657
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 2: the North. Even still, let's be honest, I probably would

1658
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 2: have gone anyway, And it took some time for me

1659
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 2: to get back to At the time, I was doing

1660
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:22,839
Speaker 2: a lot more winter sports too. But once I started

1661
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 2: to get back out to the rockies to fish, that's

1662
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:29,560
Speaker 2: what I worked towards. Those are like my one like

1663
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 2: ten days of like I gotta fucking get there. If

1664
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 2: I don't do this, I don't know what the fuck's

1665
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: gonna happen. I got to get there. I don't even

1666
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 2: know how am I gonna get there? Or you're not

1667
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 2: I can afford it, but I gotta do it. And

1668
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 2: that just became something I continue to do on an

1669
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:47,599
Speaker 2: annual basis. Yeah, sometimes buy annual basis and uh, at

1670
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:50,160
Speaker 2: some point, like Mike Dawes who's at West Bank Anglers

1671
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 2: now and Jackson, you know, I would continue to go

1672
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 2: and made some more money and I would you know,

1673
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 2: have more trips and and such, and then I got

1674
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:01,840
Speaker 2: my brother into it, and then I just sort of

1675
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 2: made the not that I listen, I am not someone

1676
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 2: that ties their own flies. I don't actually don't have

1677
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 2: the deck stay to do it. And there's so much

1678
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:12,600
Speaker 2: more for you need to learn on trout fishing. But

1679
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 2: I got to New Zealand mm hmm, and I was like,

1680
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 2: what the fuck is this South Island? Have you been? Yep?

1681
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 2: It's the best man.

1682
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Well, I was ship talking New Zealand earlier today. Well,

1683
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: you know, I said, just earlier today, I was telling someone,

1684
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: I said, when I'm on a plane that long, and

1685
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,040
Speaker 1: I got off the plane I want ship to be

1686
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 1: way different.

1687
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:40,400
Speaker 2: It wasn't different enough. And I'm like, man, these guys

1688
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 2: are this is a lot like I'm home, but not

1689
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 2: for trout fishing. Though it's the same. It's not the

1690
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 2: same thing. It's not.

1691
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:50,600
Speaker 3: It's like, it's like, you mean to tell me that

1692
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,400
Speaker 3: I came this far and there's still rainbows and brown trout.

1693
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 2: Yes, but it's not the same. There's no gus that

1694
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 2: I want to see people's bones in their hair, man,

1695
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 2: I want to see like you know, dude, for me,

1696
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 2: it's so different. I disagree.

1697
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 7: Man.

1698
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 2: I think for me it was totally different, different, different everything.

1699
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 2: And they don't follow any of the same batterns of fish.

1700
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 2: And I was like, whoa, And it's syecasting the first

1701
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 2: time I did syecasting for real. You get seycast in

1702
01:32:16,040 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 2: a spring creek, but like fishing to like an eight

1703
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 2: pound brown trout that's in like six inches of water

1704
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 2: in the middle and you just had to walk a

1705
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 2: ship ton to get there. There's one brown chot per Colombia.

1706
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 2: Now you're making it seem cool, yeah, because it is cool.

1707
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 2: I liked it.

1708
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:35,760
Speaker 1: I had a great time, did stuff there. I'm sure

1709
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:36,599
Speaker 1: I'll go again.

1710
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 2: But like I said, I just felt like when I

1711
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:39,759
Speaker 2: got off the plane, I was a little bit dismayed

1712
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 2: that they all because then they smoked my legs. So

1713
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 2: that was when I was like, you can, you can,

1714
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 2: you can hunt for fish. And that's when I was like, okay,

1715
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 2: dads got me on to saltwater fishing and did bone

1716
01:32:56,920 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 2: fish and there's great bone fishing and Andros and Seychelles

1717
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:05,040
Speaker 2: and other places. But you know, within ten hours that's

1718
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 2: like my wheelhouse and for travel, I was like, all right,

1719
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:11,400
Speaker 2: like we're gonna I need something more. And that became

1720
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:15,240
Speaker 2: like permit fishing, and listen, I think I'm like permit specifically. Yeah,

1721
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:18,040
Speaker 2: I got permit fever man. And I think I think

1722
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 2: I'm a good angler. I will never think I'm ice

1723
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 2: when I I mean, I just went. I caught more

1724
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:25,880
Speaker 2: permit than anyone on the trip, and everyone's a good angler.

1725
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 2: But I'm not like the pros man. I'm not even

1726
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 2: I suck compared to the best man. So I think

1727
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 2: I'm pretty average at it.

1728
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: And it's not what I've never I thought, I've never

1729
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:37,719
Speaker 1: caught a permit.

1730
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 2: I hate I hate it though I don't love it

1731
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 2: because it's so fucking frustrating. It It drives me insane

1732
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:50,680
Speaker 2: because it's so goddamn hard, and that's why I love it. Man,

1733
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm after that pain.

1734
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would tell you a funny permit story to

1735
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 3: have me. Recently, we were spearfishing in the Bahamas and

1736
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:01,720
Speaker 3: we're probably forty feet of water at surface, and here

1737
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 3: comes a permit.

1738
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 1: And he goes into a cave.

1739
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 3: I was like, and I was standing to the guy

1740
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 3: I was with, camer Kirkconnell. We're talking about it. You know,

1741
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 3: he stick her heads about the water and I'm like,

1742
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,799
Speaker 3: holy shit. He goes, no, man, that's normal permit.

1743
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: Shit. For that permit to be on a flat is

1744
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 1: weird for him. This is what he's normally doing. Here's

1745
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:23,439
Speaker 1: your idea that he like is on the flats. He's

1746
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:29,400
Speaker 1: like on the flats for a minute now, and then yeah,

1747
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: he's like, that's like what they do. Your experience with

1748
01:34:32,120 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: them up there is like not his normal plan. You know,

1749
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:36,400
Speaker 1: he'll check that shit out now.

1750
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 2: And then it's funny, man. When I started to do that,

1751
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 2: and I remember showing people the reason I got into

1752
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:48,679
Speaker 2: some like just shooting some guns at animals and stuff

1753
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:50,720
Speaker 2: because I was with somebody from New York and I

1754
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 2: showed him a photo of a permit. They're like, you

1755
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:55,400
Speaker 2: didn't catch a fucking permit, this very successful person. And

1756
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I did. He's like, bull shit,

1757
01:34:57,320 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 2: where's the photo photo? It doesn't count? And I got

1758
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 2: like thirty of them. He's like, oh fuck. And he

1759
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 2: took me on all these fucking fun trips. Really, that

1760
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 2: permit fishing has opened my doors to a lot of things. Yeah.

1761
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 5: Uh.

1762
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:12,800
Speaker 1: The one permit I've been on a boat to see

1763
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: landed was even disappointing. My brother Danny wearing bleeze, huge

1764
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 1: school of permit come by. He hooks one. We're jumping

1765
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 1: up and down, hoot and holler and high five, and

1766
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 1: he gets it in. It's foul hooked in the fin.

1767
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: Man even like you know, it didn't count. It was

1768
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,600
Speaker 1: the most deflating, Like, yeah, we were so excited that

1769
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 1: a while, be like, oh just it's like it wasn't

1770
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:38,120
Speaker 1: even the one you were at.

1771
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 2: You know.

1772
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: It's like his neighbor got snagged in the fin.

1773
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,600
Speaker 2: But doesn't seem like you love fly fishing. Though it

1774
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like that, does he like fly fishing? I

1775
01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:52,759
Speaker 2: fly a lot don't talk much about fly fishing. I fished.

1776
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 3: I fly fished a lot this summer because we I

1777
01:35:56,400 --> 01:36:00,920
Speaker 3: camp with my kids. We spend a lot of time

1778
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:04,679
Speaker 3: in the summer on a drainage where you're not allowed

1779
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 3: to kill cuts, and the fish, the trout, the primary

1780
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 3: trout that I'm interested in, his cutthroats. I wouldn't cross

1781
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 3: the street to catch rainbow.

1782
01:36:18,479 --> 01:36:18,680
Speaker 2: I like.

1783
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: I like cutthroats.

1784
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 3: I love cutthroats, and you can't kill cuts where we

1785
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 3: like to fish cuts, so I don't want to hurt them.

1786
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 3: So we just fish them with barblous dries and we

1787
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:38,960
Speaker 3: like to sneak up on them, find them. It's like,

1788
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 3: you know, catching one that you don't know about doesn't count.

1789
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 3: We like to identify him, observe him, name him.

1790
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 2: How clear is this water fishing?

1791
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 1: Very clear? And we like to learn, like at what

1792
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 1: cadence does he sort of drop back.

1793
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:57,720
Speaker 2: In his hole because you're in Montana and go forward.

1794
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 3: And then we catch them and then it's it becomes

1795
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 3: deeply personal, and then you let him go. And there's

1796
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 3: some fish that I even told my boy I banished

1797
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:08,879
Speaker 3: him from catching that fish anymore.

1798
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,679
Speaker 1: Like that fish, leave that one alone. We're gonna harass,

1799
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, don't catch him the rest of the summer.

1800
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 2: And I find a great amount of pleasure in that, man,

1801
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 2: the pleasure I never knew I would find. And I

1802
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: was trying to find my first permit for you.

1803
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 1: But you got that's a real permit.

1804
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I got a bunch. I don't know

1805
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 2: where the fuck I put them all anyway, Great, Yeah,

1806
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 2: I never thought that that would be my thing. It's

1807
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 2: the wildest thing, Rabin man, Like I was. Here's the thing,

1808
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 2: Like I go, I go. I'm lucky enough to go

1809
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 2: trout fishing a bunch this summer, probably like fourteen days

1810
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 2: on the river. I go trout fishing to practice my uh.

1811
01:37:59,040 --> 01:37:59,639
Speaker 1: Permit fishing.

1812
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 2: What if the ocean moved really bad? Baby tarping? Like

1813
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 2: love to catch a baby tarping, all right, because that's

1814
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 2: basically shuamer fishing almost right. So that's the kind of

1815
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:13,920
Speaker 2: asshole I am. They're like, this fucking guy, what is

1816
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 2: he doing? He doesn't even care about catching the chout?

1817
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 2: So what uh?

1818
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:21,840
Speaker 3: Because uh, you're an ingredients person, you're a food person.

1819
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 3: How often do you catch fish and eat.

1820
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 2: It in saltwater? It's snook, snapper, sometimes barracuda, but less

1821
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:44,840
Speaker 2: so because of all the risk. Snook is awesome. Probably

1822
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:49,639
Speaker 2: one of my favorite eating fish, the snappers you catch

1823
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 2: down there when you're catching, Yeah, I mean in the manger.

1824
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 2: I caught a huge fucking clapper this summer and I

1825
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 2: have a photo of it. I don't even know where

1826
01:38:58,320 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 2: it is.

1827
01:38:58,520 --> 01:38:59,519
Speaker 1: But you'll quick one up.

1828
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 2: We grow. We split it open, butterflied it, cooked it

1829
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 2: over fire and it was awesome, and ate it with

1830
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:11,080
Speaker 2: some tortillas. It was sublime, you know. And snook, I

1831
01:39:11,160 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 2: mean most people don't. It's sort of like a striped bass.

1832
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:17,840
Speaker 2: But that's an amazing eating fish. Yeah, that's the only

1833
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 2: time permit. I want to eat a permit. But that's

1834
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 2: a livelihood of all those guys down there and wants

1835
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:25,559
Speaker 2: you so bad.

1836
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:26,840
Speaker 1: Still hang you for eating permit.

1837
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:29,720
Speaker 2: You'd be better. I've eating a person I really do

1838
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,960
Speaker 2: look for on the water floating permit that a dolphin

1839
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,519
Speaker 2: is because they don't eat the head. Oh yeah, a

1840
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 2: lot of times. So I'm always like hoping.

1841
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, let me.

1842
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 2: Guilt free permit consumption. So that's because I've heard this

1843
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 2: is like talking about like we're talking about a recipe

1844
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:48,960
Speaker 2: on the menu, like I've only heard what a permit

1845
01:39:49,080 --> 01:39:52,759
Speaker 2: tastes like. Yeah, it's like because it eats crab and shrimp.

1846
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 2: And clearly I could go eat a fucking pompino or something,

1847
01:39:56,160 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 2: but like something down there or something I dream about it.

1848
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 3: Well, someday when you send me a pou, send me

1849
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 3: a photo of a headless permit, and I'll know what

1850
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:06,599
Speaker 3: I'll know where it happened. All right, Well, David chang Man,

1851
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:09,519
Speaker 3: thank you for joining. Next time you're into your grocery store,

1852
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:12,720
Speaker 3: I'm talking to you, listeners, keep your eye out if

1853
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:14,760
Speaker 3: you're heading out backpack and keep your eye out for

1854
01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:19,120
Speaker 3: Momo fuku ram and if you want to have the

1855
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 3: lightweight meal, and then if you want to go for

1856
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 3: the real deal, find the restaurants.

1857
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,160
Speaker 2: Well, we got a you can go to shop down

1858
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 2: momofuku dot com and uh, I'll try to get you

1859
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 2: guys a discount code. I don't know, Yeah, for sure,

1860
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 2: we'll give you this.

1861
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 3: And then tell people, tell how people to find how

1862
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 3: best to find you, and how to find your restaurants,

1863
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 3: and you can.

1864
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:42,040
Speaker 2: Visit us at momofuku dot com and all the media

1865
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:46,080
Speaker 2: stuff we're doing. Uh at majordomomedia dot com and my

1866
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:48,320
Speaker 2: social media is at at David Chang.

1867
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: All right, thanks for joining man, really appreciate the time.

1868
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 2: Honor guys, this was fun. Thank you. Thanks.

1869
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, this is still Steve, but I'm not with Dave.

1870
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:02,280
Speaker 3: Dave Chang the guess you just listened to followed up

1871
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:06,720
Speaker 3: after the show with a kind gift for Y'all's right now.

1872
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 2: You can get anything you want from momo fuku at.

1873
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 3: Twenty percent off by using the code meet twenty at

1874
01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 3: momofuku dot com Meet twenty twenty percent off. Get yourself

1875
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:25,200
Speaker 3: a big old pocket full of ramen noodles momofuku dot

1876
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:27,400
Speaker 3: com Meet twenty for twenty percent off.

1877
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 2: Ride on.

1878
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:50,519
Speaker 3: Seal Gray, Join like Silver in the Sun, Ride.

1879
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 2: Ride alone, Sweetheart.

1880
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 10: We done beat this day horse to death, taking a

1881
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:10,639
Speaker 10: new one and ride away. We're done beat this dam

1882
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 10: horse to death.

1883
01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 2: H So take a new one and ride on.

1884
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:25,439
Speaker 1: H