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Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers,

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Speaker 1: do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the

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Speaker 1: true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi

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Speaker 1: who is burned alive and the story of the man

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Speaker 1: accused of this heinous crime. Is that the right guy

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Speaker 1: on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers?

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Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more

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Speaker 1: questions than answers, this is the case that has captured

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Speaker 1: national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small

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Speaker 1: town divided. This is a must see TV event. It

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Speaker 1: features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as

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Speaker 1: a search for answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable crime

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Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers Saturdays at seven six Central

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Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the new network for crime Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Eight thirty five year old young woman stabbed

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Speaker 1: dead on an early evening jog daylight hours near her

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Speaker 1: home in Upscale, Washington, d C. Just one week after

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Speaker 1: she is engaged to be married. I'm talking about Wendy Martinez,

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Speaker 1: the chief of staff at a d C company fiscal note,

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Speaker 1: stabbed dead near Logan Circle. This is before eight pm yesterday.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Wendy Martinez? Her family described her as

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Speaker 1: a devout Christian, the light of their lives, who had

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Speaker 1: just gotten engaged. Straight out to John Limley, Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what do we know, John? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: Wendy Martinez grew up in Florida, but she settled in

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Speaker 1: d C. After graduating from Georgetown University. She went on

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Speaker 1: to become chief of staff at Fiscal Note Technology management company.

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Speaker 1: On linked In, she describes herself as a forward thinker

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Speaker 1: in data and technology. It seems she was perfectly suited

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Speaker 1: for her life as a tech executive. Not too long ago,

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Speaker 1: Wendy was featured in an article for the website Bridge

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Speaker 1: dot Com, and in that interview, she says that exercise

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Speaker 1: was a big part of her life. She said she

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Speaker 1: loved to take classes at a local fitness studio and

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Speaker 1: that she loved nothing more than to go jogging around

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Speaker 1: d C. Unfortunately, it was that passion for running that

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Speaker 1: would lead ultimately to her death. A horrific attack, A

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Speaker 1: bloody attack on jogger Wendy Martinez one week after she

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Speaker 1: gets engaged, DAB dead in Washington Tuesday evening, police looking

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Speaker 1: for a man spotted on surveillance video. Now take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what Washington, d C. Police Chief Peter Nisham says.

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Speaker 1: It was very disturbing. Uh, you know, you have a

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Speaker 1: young woman out here exercising in a neighborhood, very very

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Speaker 1: safe neighborhood. You have a lot of people out here,

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Speaker 1: people are enjoying dinner across the street, and have something

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Speaker 1: like that happened. Like I said, it's unsettling. We do

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Speaker 1: not have a motive. But like I said, um, more

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Speaker 1: likely than not it was a stranger to the victim,

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Speaker 1: to Mark Class, founder of Class Kids Foundation, a random attack,

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Speaker 1: that's what police are saying. How likely is that, Well,

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Speaker 1: it was likely for Sun believe me, in the same

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Speaker 1: area several years ago. And I think at this point

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Speaker 1: in time, and we hear about women that are out

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Speaker 1: jogging that are approached by these creatures on a regular basis,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's incumbent upon them at this point, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: to carry some kind of protection with them, whether it

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Speaker 1: be mace, pepper, spree, or some kind of a physical weapon.

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Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at one photo. This woman, a George

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Speaker 1: Town grad, she just gotten engaged. In the photo, it

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Speaker 1: shows the fiancee, Daniel in a blue suit, down on

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Speaker 1: one knee with a ring box open as she was

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Speaker 1: standing there with his beautiful smile on her face. And

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Speaker 1: what you do, and what I do, when we're putting

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Speaker 1: cases together, is you go back and you get to

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Speaker 1: know the victim in death. And photos like that just

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Speaker 1: they're heartbreaking, you know. I remember the first carjack murder

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Speaker 1: case Cheryl I ever tried, and it was a young guy.

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Speaker 1: He was carjack and shot in his own front yard

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Speaker 1: that where he lived with his family, with his mom

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Speaker 1: and dad and siblings. And I was looking at the

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Speaker 1: crime scene photos. I was going to the crime scene

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Speaker 1: and then I saw where a neighbor ran out with

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Speaker 1: a pillow and put under his head in the driveway,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. I actually I had to leave

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. That tenderness broke my heart. I could look

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Speaker 1: at the crime scene photos, the autopsy reports all day long,

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Speaker 1: but something about that photo, and there's something about this photo,

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Speaker 1: that joyful moment they were having just last week. It

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Speaker 1: just when you're putting a case back together. That's the

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Speaker 1: journey you go through. There's no question about it, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: That was a storybook moment that was captured. It was beautiful,

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Speaker 1: it was swede, it was endearing, and their whole life

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Speaker 1: lade out in front of them. But what resonates for

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Speaker 1: me is the video of the man walking away from

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Speaker 1: that scene, and he's swinging his right arm pretty consistently,

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Speaker 1: like trying to walk at a good gate, but his

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Speaker 1: left hand isn't moving at all. You don't even see

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Speaker 1: his fingers. He's got long sleeve zone, so that indicates

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Speaker 1: to me he's probably holding the knife in his left

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Speaker 1: hand and his hiding it because there's probably blood all

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Speaker 1: over it. So that also indicates to me, you've got

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Speaker 1: a Georgetown graduate thirty five years old, so she's smart,

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Speaker 1: she's athletic, she's recently engaged. This person is the opposite

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Speaker 1: of that to me, so clearly stranger on Stranger Crimes.

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, host of i d S hit show

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Speaker 1: Fatal Vows, lawyer and psychologists, it's kind of hard to

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Speaker 1: reconcile this wonderful, beautiful, storybook life and this horrific crime.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm reacting so badly to it because of

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Speaker 1: the murder of my fiance just before our wedding. When

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Speaker 1: you see your whole life just go sideways in one

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Speaker 1: moment and a stranger on stranger attack Brian, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it really underscores the point that you've made telling

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Speaker 1: your story many times, and we've sadly made in cases

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Speaker 1: like this over years of covering them, that it can

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Speaker 1: happen to anybody. There's you don't have to have done

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Speaker 1: anything wrong, you don't have to have you don't have

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Speaker 1: to have done anything. It's such a sense that people

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Speaker 1: get of injustice about not just the crime, but just

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Speaker 1: about the universe almost about how can something like this

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Speaker 1: happen to? You know what? Why does some Why do

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Speaker 1: things like this ever happen to good people? But they do,

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Speaker 1: and most of the time they do. Just as we

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Speaker 1: are going to air, we are learning right now that

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Speaker 1: an arrest has been made a suspect arrested on the

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Speaker 1: attack of Wendy Martinez fatally stabbed while out jogging, stabbed

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Speaker 1: over and over and over. After the attack, she managed

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Speaker 1: to stagger into a nearby Chinese restaurant, where everybody in

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Speaker 1: there tried to help her. She died to Kenya Johnson, felony.

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Prosecutor. When you have surveillance video, it goes a

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Speaker 1: long way in catching your purp, but it doesn't go

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Speaker 1: the entire way. How do you put the pieces together

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Speaker 1: to find the guy. Well, you're still gonna need witnesses

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Speaker 1: to come in and say that they can identify this

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Speaker 1: image that's on this surveillance video. And of course it

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Speaker 1: is very helpful for the juries a trial to see

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Speaker 1: the actual actions on the perpetrator before, during, and after

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Speaker 1: the crime event. However, now police are gonna need to

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Speaker 1: go to the public or they already did, and see

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Speaker 1: if they can identify this grainy video and still have

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Speaker 1: to make an identification Cheryl McCullum. They said at the

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Speaker 1: get go they thought it was a random attack. It

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Speaker 1: appears that there may be some mental illness, some drug use,

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Speaker 1: but he, for whatever reason, zeroed in on this poor

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Speaker 1: woman who was doing nothing. In no way provoked or

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Speaker 1: calls this incident. Take a listen now to the latest

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Speaker 1: from Police Chief Peter Nishan. The motive in this case

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Speaker 1: right now is unknown. Yesterday morning, we released surveillance video

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Speaker 1: showing a person of interest in the case. A combination

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Speaker 1: of information that we received from our third District Patrol

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Speaker 1: officers and tips from the community helped our homicide detectives

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Speaker 1: established the identification of this person of interest that was

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Speaker 1: shown in the video homicide. They located this individual in

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Speaker 1: a park at fourteen and Gerrard Street, Northwest. He was

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Speaker 1: transported to the Homicide division for questioning. Sufficient probable cause

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Speaker 1: was established, and this morning we arrested and charged twenty

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Speaker 1: three year old Anthony Crawford of Northwest, d C. With

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Speaker 1: first degree murder while armed. We await as the case progresses.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about violent crime, it's almost as if

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Speaker 1: we're drinking from a fire hydrant. It's just too much,

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Speaker 1: too fast, too furious. If you have heard about the

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Speaker 1: murder of Jessica Chambers, don't miss the new docuseries on Oxygen,

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Speaker 1: The true story of a teen girl cheerleader Mississippi, Burned Alive,

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Speaker 1: The story of the man now accused of the heinous crime.

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Speaker 1: Is the right guy on trial? Who is he? And

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Speaker 1: who was Jessica Chambers? How does such a horrific crime

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Speaker 1: even occur? More questions than answers. It's a case that

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Speaker 1: has captured national headlines taken over social media and has

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Speaker 1: now left and is leaving a small town divided. It's

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Speaker 1: a Mussy TV event with exclusive interviews that take you

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Speaker 1: inside the investigation as a search for ants, SoRs, and

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Speaker 1: justice goes on. Don't miss it. It is Unspeakable Crime

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Speaker 1: the killing on Jessica Chamber Saturday's seven six Central on Oxygen,

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Speaker 1: the new network for crime. When we got that call

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, I could kind of

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Speaker 1: tell that, you know, something bad had happened and never

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Speaker 1: told us the story, and um, it's just you know, panic,

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Speaker 1: you know someone's taken Elizabeth with a gun, and you know,

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Speaker 1: get down here. It's just kind of it's just the sick,

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Speaker 1: terrible feeling. It just struck your heart that this, this

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Speaker 1: is the worst thing that could ever happen. I remember

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Speaker 1: walking in to the house and singing Lotta sitting on

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Speaker 1: that couch and it was just that was just horrifying.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was just wailing, catatonic. It was just

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Speaker 1: this nightmare is real. Elizabeth Smart, a little girl kidnapped

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Speaker 1: from her own room, in her own bed, her uncle's

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Speaker 1: Tom and David talk about first discovering she's gone in

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Speaker 1: a documentary The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. I Meancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Bob Shell, now one of her two kidnappers. The female accomplice,

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Speaker 1: Wanda bars in the Last Hour's pictured for the very

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Speaker 1: first time, says she has been released just fifteen years

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Speaker 1: after the kidnap of little girl Elizabeth Smart. It's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to take in that this woman goes along

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Speaker 1: with her husband, the so called profit David Mitchell, in

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Speaker 1: his quest to kidnapped six little girls to become his

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Speaker 1: child bride's. Well, we know what that means, child bride.

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Speaker 1: It means child molestation. That's what child bride means. And

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Speaker 1: she held Elizabeth Smart, tied her to a tree, and

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Speaker 1: sat beside her as she was raped and threatened with

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Speaker 1: death every single day for nine months. Another terrifying, chilling

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Speaker 1: thought is that this woman, Wanda bar Z sat there

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Speaker 1: quiet as they could hear rescue workers in the distance

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Speaker 1: calling out Elizabeth, Elizabeth. She sat there quiet, her chance

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Speaker 1: to save Elizabeth's life, joining me Mark Class victim advocate,

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Speaker 1: founder of Class Kids Foundation. Kenya Johnson, Atlanta veteran prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host, of investigation Discoveries he

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Speaker 1: hit series Fatal Vows. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research in to Crime Scene Investigator, Joining me right now,

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Speaker 1: John Limley, reporter with crime online dot Com. John. Who

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Speaker 1: is this woman? Wanda Barsie Nancy. It's interesting to note

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Speaker 1: that Elizabeth Smart's two abductors actually met in a mental

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Speaker 1: health counseling group. One to Barsie was introduced to Brian

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Speaker 1: Mitchell when she was receiving treatment for depression. She found

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Speaker 1: that she was able to talk with Brian about her

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Speaker 1: abusive marriage and he was able to provide her with

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Speaker 1: some much needed comfort. At the time, Brian had become

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Speaker 1: active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day

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Speaker 1: Saints and was an ordained elder. Both of them were

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Speaker 1: actually going through divorces at the time, and though they

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Speaker 1: were still married to other people, church leaders approved of

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Speaker 1: their budding relationship because they knew the couple needed each other.

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Speaker 1: The couple actually married the very same day as Brian's

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Speaker 1: divorce wars became final. From what we understand, that first

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Speaker 1: year was absolutely hellish that they argued all the time.

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Speaker 1: Wanda has said that it was difficult, It was painful,

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Speaker 1: but they did make it through that first year of marriage.

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Speaker 1: Of course, as we now know, this is just the

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Speaker 1: beginning of a most bizarre path that the couple would

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Speaker 1: travel together. It became a toxic mix of religion, sex,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately crime. Well, John, Lily, when you put it

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Speaker 1: like that to me, it is romanticized about how he

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Speaker 1: helped her and just no, I'm not getting sucked into

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Speaker 1: their story. Uh F d l s F d Eryl McCollum.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that the Mormons? It is? And they were later

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Speaker 1: all thrown out of that church nat as they should

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Speaker 1: have been. Um, you know this is something that stumps me.

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Speaker 1: I went to school with a young guy, Wayne, who's Mormon,

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Speaker 1: and he could not even have chocolate milk. He was

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Speaker 1: very devout. How can they divorce and remarry and come

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Speaker 1: up with the idea of a child? Right? You know what?

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Speaker 1: I want to clear something up that is not the

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Speaker 1: Mormon religion. That's these two nuts felons evil. Why she's out, Cheryl?

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Speaker 1: I do not know. To Mark Class, who has not

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Speaker 1: only uh talk the talk, but walked the walk in

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Speaker 1: searching for crime victims his specialty children, Mark weigh in,

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Speaker 1: how did the whole thing happened to start with, and

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Speaker 1: I want to hear your reaction on BARSI walking free. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we have to remember that that we have to take

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Speaker 1: this out of the realm of of of reality and

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Speaker 1: bring it into the craziness and the insanity that these

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Speaker 1: people exist in. Mitchell was a homeless individual who was

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Speaker 1: hired by Elizabeth's father to do work on the house,

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Speaker 1: and that's where he bought his eye on Elizabeth. He

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Speaker 1: later came back in the middle of the night and

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Speaker 1: cut his way through a screen door, entered the house,

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Speaker 1: and kidnapped Elizabeth at knife point with her sister m

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Speaker 1: while her sister was awake in the room with her,

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Speaker 1: and she then was missing for nine months. Nancy, I

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Speaker 1: believe that the answer to this whole thing is civil commitment.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why they've allowed this woman to run free.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth said that it's incomprehensible how someone who has not

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Speaker 1: cooperated with her mental health evaluations or risk assessments, or

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Speaker 1: someone who did not show up to her own parole

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Speaker 1: hearings can be released into our community. And I have

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Speaker 1: to completely and totally agree with her and wonder why

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Speaker 1: the authorities aren't looking in a way to civilly commit

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Speaker 1: her given the fact that she's still very well, maybe

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Speaker 1: a threat to the community. She's no doubt suffering from

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Speaker 1: mental diseases, and and she's absolutely terrified. This woman who

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Speaker 1: deserves nothing more than peace in her life. For nine

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Speaker 1: long months, this obsessed couple keeps Little Elizabeth tied up

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Speaker 1: in the woods where Mitchell Brian David Mitchell rapes her daily,

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Speaker 1: threatens to murder her daily, with bars a sitting right

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Speaker 1: beside her as it happened. I don't understand it, Kenya Johnson.

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Speaker 1: You're a veteran prosecutor in many jurisdictions for rape or kidnap,

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Speaker 1: you get life behind bars. What happened, Kenya? Why is

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Speaker 1: she out? You know? Um? It could be a variety

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Speaker 1: of reasons. From what I understand, her senses expired and

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Speaker 1: why they attempted to have her community for longer or

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Speaker 1: as a civil commitment. Uh. The law states and Utah

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Speaker 1: that when your sensors expires, they can no longer keep you,

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Speaker 1: and so she's not gonna be under She'll be under

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Speaker 1: the jurisdiction of the courts as far as parole was concerned,

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Speaker 1: where she has the restrictions from contact uh the victim. However,

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Speaker 1: when the criminal case has run its course, that's it

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Speaker 1: unless we begin to initiate new actions. I don't give

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Speaker 1: a flying fig about they don't contact the victim. Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Smart lives with this woman and this monster in her

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Speaker 1: head every day. Um. Dr Brian Russell not only psychologist

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Speaker 1: and host of I d S Fatal Vowel series, but

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Speaker 1: also lawyer. This is what I understand. I had to

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Speaker 1: It's like a ball of yarn. I had took me

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Speaker 1: forever to unravel this thing, Dr Brian, But this is

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Speaker 1: what I think went down. So they sentenced her to fifteen.

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Speaker 1: They should have run consecutive, but no, no, that means

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Speaker 1: one after the next. But what happened was she did

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Speaker 1: sometime in a federal pen. So just a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, Brian, they make the announcement pardon in parole,

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Speaker 1: say she's gonna be until tw Now. They jump up

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Elizabeth did not see it coming and says, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, guess what we miscalculated. We got to

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Speaker 1: give her credit for the sad time she's out. She's

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Speaker 1: getting out. I mean, that's like a ton of bricks

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Speaker 1: just drop right on your head. Dr Brian. Well, as

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Speaker 1: you know, I rarely see a print prison sentence that

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Speaker 1: I think is long enough. And so you know, we

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Speaker 1: all learned in law school that the person who drives

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Speaker 1: the getaway car is, under the law considered equally guilty

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Speaker 1: as the person who actually goes into the bank and

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Speaker 1: robs it. So I don't I agree with Mark Class.

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Speaker 1: If there were a way that we could use the

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Speaker 1: mental health system to keep this woman off the street longer,

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Speaker 1: that would certainly be better than nothing. But to me,

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Speaker 1: that the origin of this goes all the way back

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Speaker 1: to what she was charged with and sentenced for in

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Speaker 1: the very beginning. Not long enough. She belongs to prison

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Speaker 1: every day as long as her boyfriend Wanda Bars convicted

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Speaker 1: for aiding a street preacher Brian David Mitchell to kidnap

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Speaker 1: and rape a little girl has been released, has been released.

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Speaker 1: She was last thing carrying a banana and a box

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Speaker 1: of salad as she followed authorities to a hotel. Her

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Speaker 1: family is saying she cannot come here. She needs to

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Speaker 1: be civilly committed. That's what I know. Window treatments is

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Speaker 1: Melisa Radze that was Decis Claudine and lowereda forty two

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Speaker 1: years of age. It's Decisebert ortis dese and also officially

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Speaker 1: on identified victim also and we offer, in regard to

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Speaker 1: all of us here at Presidents, our deepest condolences to

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Speaker 1: the families and friends of all these victims of what

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Speaker 1: happened here in this episode. One David Ortiz dirty if

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Speaker 1: of course, if anything I believe or thieve, targeted all

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Speaker 1: victims due to their profession and being invulnerable. In addition,

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Speaker 1: all the victims were defenseless, and at one point or

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Speaker 1: these was able to gain their trust and then viciously

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Speaker 1: How does a man in a position of authority and

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, a US Border Patrol agent turn into a

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Speaker 1: serial killer. I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us in the last days.

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Speaker 1: We are stunned that this man has been able to

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Speaker 1: operate as a serial killer right under the noses of

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Speaker 1: law enforcement and Border patrol. David Ortiz serial killer, father, married,

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Speaker 1: father of two young children, with a home and a job.

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Speaker 1: How often do cereal killers disguise themselves as law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: going under the radar of their friends and colleagues. Right

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Speaker 1: now we know of four dead bodies. A fifth woman

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Speaker 1: managed to escape his clutches, half naked, to somehow get

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Speaker 1: out of his vehicle as he pointed a gun at

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Speaker 1: her face and run for it. It was then and

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Speaker 1: only then that Ortiz was exposed. Right now we know

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Speaker 1: the names of some of his victims, but not all

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Speaker 1: of them. How many more are there joining me? Robin

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Speaker 1: Olinski's crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin start at

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Speaker 1: the beginning, basically, what this man, thirty five year old.

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Speaker 1: He was a supervisor with the Laredo sector of the

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Speaker 1: Border Patrol, and he picked up a woman, Melissa Ramirez.

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Speaker 1: He shot her in the head multiple times. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing somebody shoots somebody else but to shoot

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Speaker 1: them in the head. There are some real underlying anger there.

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Speaker 1: Then he shoots a forty two year old woman, claudein Lauera.

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Speaker 1: She had been questioning him about the first victim, Melissa

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Speaker 1: Currently he got very angry shots shoots her in the

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Speaker 1: head too. Uh. Then there then he kills two more

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Speaker 1: people at the police believe in the timeframe of just

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Speaker 1: an hour. Another woman whose name we don't know, who

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Speaker 1: was shot in the head, and then this man, Huberto Ortiz,

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Speaker 1: a victim who was twenty eight years old. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think that there could be

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Speaker 1: more victims out there. And the way that he managed

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Speaker 1: to hide under the radar, disguising himself parading as law

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Speaker 1: enforcement did. Joseph's Got Morgan forensics expert, Professor forensics at

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of a book on Amazon

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Fate Joseph's Got Morgan. I believe we're

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Speaker 1: going to find out that he did the same thing

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Speaker 1: over and over and over, which means to me, forensically

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Speaker 1: most of the crime scenes are going to take place

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Speaker 1: right there in his truck. Yeah, I think that that's

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Speaker 1: that's a high probability. Nancy. Also, I think that it's

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Speaker 1: important for us to consider his occupation as a border patrolman.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna put a supervisory position right now. I think

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Speaker 1: that there will be other bodies. I think that they

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Speaker 1: need to go back and see where else he had

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Speaker 1: been stationed. These border patrol agents get stationed along the

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Speaker 1: US border in various different locations. I would think that

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Speaker 1: he would see these opportunities. He's moved into a supervisory position,

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Speaker 1: he can kind of come and go as he pleases.

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Speaker 1: I wonder where else he worked and if there are

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Speaker 1: any missing or unidentified bodies in those locations too. Ashley Willcott, judge,

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Speaker 1: lawyer or founder child crimewatch dot Com. Over and over

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Speaker 1: and over when you're on the bench, when you're handling cases.

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Speaker 1: I saw it myself, But I mean, I'm not a shrink.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to verbalize it correctly. But people

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Speaker 1: do the same thing over and over and in little things.

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Speaker 1: I do the same thing over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in small patterns, in your life, with your children, everything.

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Speaker 1: We tend to do the same things over and over.

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Speaker 1: You know he's done this before. Actually, we we've just

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Speaker 1: got the tip of the iceberg on this guy. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think they're gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot of other victims unfortunately. And you are right, especially

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Speaker 1: with criminals. I see it when they come before me,

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Speaker 1: the habits, the propensities, the little tiny things that details

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Speaker 1: that they do the same over and over again. I

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Speaker 1: can hear about a crime and I can say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I think that's this person. I think

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Speaker 1: it's this JUVENI I think it's this one who did this.

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Speaker 1: And they'll say, oh, be yep, that's the right one,

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Speaker 1: that's the one. Why Because it's the same way of

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00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: operating every single time they come at the crime. You

427
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: know you're right? What is that about? People? Karen start

428
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: joining us New York psychologist Karen. Why do we do

429
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: the same things over and over and over? I can

430
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: tell you last night I was up helping Lucy with

431
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: a book report at eleven o'clock at night. She does

432
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: the same thing every time John David finishes his lou See,

433
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: can I do it later? Can I write one sentence

434
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: today and the rest of the paragraph tomorrow. That's her

435
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: and that I do the same thing. I'm sucked into

436
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: her vortex. I'm like, okay, and then it's eleven o'clock

437
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: at night, and I'm like, we're not going to procrastinate anymore,

438
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: and I guarantee you the next time, I'll do the

439
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: same thing again. I tried my cases the same way.

440
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: I found myself writing out evidence proving guilt across a

441
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: poster over and over and over and over for ten years. Okay,

442
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: lucky for me, it worked. But what I'm saying is

443
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: you see the same patterns even in my mistakes, big mistakes,

444
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: small mistakes. It comes from doing the same thing over

445
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: and ever. What is wrong with us were slaves to

446
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: our habits fancy, and it's very, very hard to break

447
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: the patterns that we've lived our life through. And that

448
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: is very helpful when it comes to criminals because they

449
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: can help but repeat what they've done before. They're driven

450
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: to keep doing the stay thing, and it's an obsession.

451
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: They become obsessed with needing to kill, with needing to

452
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: use the guns. You begin to pick up traces and

453
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: can see the patterns of how they work. And that's

454
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: exactly what happened with this guy. That he was in

455
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: a position where he could take advantage of it, and

456
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: she was going after a certain type of person. That's

457
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: what interested him, and he used the gun and it

458
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: kept happening over and over again. The witness had struggled

459
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: with him. Uh she was trying to get out. She

460
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: later found that this person here had a weapon and

461
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: she was not feeling just right to be with him.

462
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: She tried to get away once and then try to

463
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: get away twice, and what I understand, on the second attempt,

464
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: she was able to jump out through the door, run

465
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: towards the lights where a DPS trooper was gassing up

466
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: at the time. She lived to tell the tale. In

467
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: the cab of a truck with this guy, a Border

468
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: Patrol agent very well respected, now revealed to be, according

469
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: to police, a serial killer, and she was his next victim,

470
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: the fifth that we know of. She jumps from the

471
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: cab of that truck. He grabs her by the shirt

472
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: that comes off. She keeps running, thank God, to the

473
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: vehicle of law and enforcement and they save her life.

474
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: To Robert Willinski, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robert Wilinski,

475
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: we heard Karen start NewYork psychologists talking about doing the

476
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: same thing over and over. What was this guy ortiz

477
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: as m O his modus operandi, method of operation. He

478
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: was targeting, you know, women who are defenseless, and he

479
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: tried to gain their trust and take them into his vehicle,

480
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: and then after he was done with them, he would

481
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: shoot them. I mean sickening. I think what strikes me,

482
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: Nancy about this case is that here is someone, a

483
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: man who is supposed to be, you know, keeping illegal

484
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: aliens and criminals out of our country. He's supposed to

485
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: be keeping the criminals out, and he's the criminal. He's

486
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: the serial killer. I will tell you this is the

487
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: final point that I would like to interview the people

488
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: that he supervised and hear from them what this guy

489
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: was like as their boss. Wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah?

490
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: I would like to hear that to how he functioning.

491
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: Quote normal regular life to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert

492
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: and author. You know his vehicle has got because you know,

493
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: he did the same thing over and over again. He

494
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: would lure women to his vehicle and attack them, is

495
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: my guests, and then murder them. I believe he were

496
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: going to find out he shot every one of them,

497
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: because I know he pulled out his gun on Erica,

498
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: who managed to get away. Another woman was shot multiple

499
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: times in the head. A third woman was found alive

500
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: having been shot by him in the head. She was

501
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: still alive, Joe Scott Morgan not very far away the

502
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: butt from the body of another woman. She was alive

503
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: when she was found, raced to the hospital and she

504
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: died of her injuries at the hospital. So how do

505
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: you process that rolling crime scene? The murder truck? Yeah,

506
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: this is uh, this vehicle is a crime scene on wheels, literally, Nancy.

507
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: And what's gonna be so uh so key here is

508
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be overlapping bits of evidence in here.

509
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: And specifically, when we think about d n A, what

510
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: makes it so important? Well, other you know, in any

511
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: other circumstance, would these women have wound up in this

512
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: guy's vehicle. Looking at this from a legal perspective, probably not.

513
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: What are the odds so we can find specific DNA

514
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: that's tied back to these individual victims in this vehicle

515
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: that puts them in that particular place. Not to mention

516
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: other things, maybe he shot them in the vehicle, There

517
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: might be traces of blood evidence there, there might be

518
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: hair in there. You never know what has been left behind.

519
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: And also those things that can be seen with the

520
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: unaided I say, for instance, they left items there, maybe

521
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: there's stuff under the seat. So these trucks are going

522
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: to be virtually a cornucopia of evidence in there. Take

523
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: a listen to the Zapotta County District Attorney is Cedrols.

524
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: The evidence that we have right now is that he

525
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: committed these murders in a similar fashion, taking these individuals

526
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: out to desolate areas near or or right outside the

527
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: city limits and executing them with a handgun. The question

528
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: that's out there is why did he do this? And

529
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: that's part of our mission to find out why he

530
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: did this. It's difficult to get into the mind of

531
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: a killer. But what we have right now, and what

532
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: we do know, is that or these carried out these

533
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: murders in a cold, in callous way. There was a

534
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: common scheme. There was a certain community or group of

535
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: people that he was seeking out. Unfortunately, the as a

536
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: community of people that are vulnerable. Bottom line, he sought

537
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: out those people less cunning, less powerful, or weaker than himself.

538
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: He used them and murdered them and would then go

539
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: home to his home and family, his children, as if

540
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: nothing had happened. You know, to Robin Walinsky, Crime online

541
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, you know this reminds me of

542
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: a great deal is b t K bind Torture killed

543
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: Dennis Writer who worked as a dog catcher for a

544
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: municipal jurisdiction for years and years and would go home

545
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: to a wife and family, all the while planning elaborate

546
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: murders and staging of scenes of the dead victims and

547
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: their bodies, putting wigs and clothes, blah blah, all the

548
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: while disguising as a public servant. Yeah, clearly this guy

549
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: had some sort of a complex and inferiority complex, and

550
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: he was living Nancy a double life for sure, and

551
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: clearly I think angry about it. And why else would

552
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: you shoot these women? You know, you're getting pleasure from

553
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: the act of picking up and then you're going and

554
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: you're shooting this person, disposing of them like they don't count,

555
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: that their life doesn't matter, and then you go home

556
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: to your other life. I mean, this guy was clearly

557
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: sick for a period of time. Out to you, Ashley Walcott.

558
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: The authorities did not disclose the victim's names or nationality.

559
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: They wouldn't discuss how the uh women were killed or

560
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: the evidence, but we now know the evidence indicates he

561
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: did the same thing over and over. Uh. In one case,

562
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: we know Ortiz orders one of the ladies out of

563
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: his car. It was well, it was a white Dodge truck,

564
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: shot her in the back of the head. He executed

565
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: another woman as she got out of the truck as well.

566
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: That's too. It's amazing to me actually that he is

567
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 1: married with children, you never know, hiding in plain sight.

568
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: Not only that, that the neighbors are interviewed and said,

569
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: we can't believe it, we can't believe he would do this.

570
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: So that just goes to show regrettably making a murderer.

571
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: Anybody can be a murderer. He's sadistic, he's sick. The

572
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: other thing that's important to note in this case, Nancy,

573
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: he actually worked for the Intel, So think about all

574
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: of the intelligence, part of the Border Control, all of

575
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: the information that they had. He was getting so he

576
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: had all the leads, so he had time to figure

577
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: out exactly which person he was going to choose to

578
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: flat out execute, which is what he did to these victims.

579
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: You know what to Karen start, she's right, as she

580
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: Rollcott is absolutely correct. He was an Intel supervisor and

581
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: Intelligent supervisor for Border Patrol, and he specialized in narcotics

582
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: and human trafficking and at one point was in charge

583
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: of patrolling Interstate thirty five. And we now know at

584
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: least one of the alleged victims was found along that

585
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: same route. And I know for another thing, one of

586
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: these victims, and Melissa Ramirez just twenty nine, had two children,

587
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: ages seven and three, And this is how they're going

588
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: to grow up knowing their mom was lured into this

589
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: vehicle and then murdered. Unfortunately, Nancy, that's true. That's exactly

590
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: what how they're going to grow up and be haunted

591
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: by it. And it's not accidental that he had this job.

592
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: It fits his personality, it fits what he wanted to do.

593
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: I would not be amazed to find that this guy

594
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: has picked this job intentionally so that he could go

595
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: ahead and pursue his nefarious gangs what he was looking for.

596
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you that the reason that

597
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: he's able to go ahead and have assumed this other

598
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: identity where his neighbors think he's such a terrific guy

599
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: family man, is he compartmentalizes what's going on, so he

600
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: has no true feelings. He's able to separate himself be

601
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: this fake, wonderful family guy on the one hand and

602
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: this murderous, treacherous guy on the other. Well, I just wonder,

603
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: uh if the cops are looking at a bigger time

604
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: spam because this has all just gone down over the

605
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: space of a few weeks that we know of what

606
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: else is lurking, and we can thank one of the

607
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: victims for his capture. Listen, thanks to the victim who escaped.

608
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: Law enforcement got a break more quickly with the information

609
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: than intil that they had. Thank you to the good

610
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: work by DPS and apprehending him. He was taken to

611
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: the station where he was read his Miranda warnings and

612
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: after a thorough interview and interrogation is when he decided

613
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: to voluntarily confess to these murders. We wait as justice unfolls.

614
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: Thank you too, Robin Willinski, Ashley Wilcott, Joseph Scott, Morgan,

615
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: and Karen Stark, and thank you for being with us.

616
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's crime Story signing off, good Bye friend,