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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Being a podcaster means you sometimes get some strange

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Speaker 1: and unexpected deliveries. You see, whenever I read an ad

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Speaker 1: for the show, it's only for a product that I

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Speaker 1: know and like, and that means I'm often checking out

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Speaker 1: new products before advertising them to you on the Happiness Lab.

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Speaker 1: I often come home to random packages waiting for me

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Speaker 1: on my doorstep. Our ads are what keeps the show going,

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Speaker 1: which means you can keep listening to the Happiness Lab

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Speaker 1: for free. But the other reason I love our advertisers

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Speaker 1: is that the people who work at the companies who

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Speaker 1: sponsor us are usually fans of the Happiness Lab, just

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Speaker 1: like you. That's why they want to support the show

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Speaker 1: and all the work we do. Take for example, my

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Speaker 1: most recent delivery a colorful box of soaps and cleaners,

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Speaker 1: which had a handwritten note inside. We are so excited

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Speaker 1: to work with you. We are big fans, it said,

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Speaker 1: Please enjoy some of our favorite products. Thanks missus Myers.

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Speaker 1: These sentence samples around at the absolute perfect time, because

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Speaker 1: over the past few months, I've gone on a bit

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Speaker 1: of an olfactory journey. It's a challenge I started after

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Speaker 1: I chatted with the Great Happiness Expert Gretchen Ruben.

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Speaker 2: For some people, I think that this can be kind

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Speaker 2: of an overlooked sense.

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Speaker 1: Last year I spoke to Gretchen about her new book

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Speaker 1: Life in Five Senses, which explores how we can get

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Speaker 1: more joy from paying attention to the sights and sounds

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Speaker 1: around us, but also to the smells. Gretchen says, we

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Speaker 1: often neglect the impact that odor can have on us.

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Speaker 1: She told me I should try harder to curate the

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Speaker 1: smells that surround me.

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Speaker 2: There's both eliminating the negative, which is what are the

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Speaker 2: things that are bringing you down or draining you, and

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Speaker 2: then the adding, which is what are the things that

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Speaker 2: will make it feel richer. So you could say, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm in my home office, like maybe there's something that

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Speaker 2: smells bad that I need to get rid of. Or

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Speaker 2: you can add something good, whether that's making sure that

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Speaker 2: you open the windows so that you get fresh air

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Speaker 2: and the smell of the outdoors, or a plant or

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Speaker 2: a scented candle.

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Speaker 1: Who am I to argue with Gretchen Ruben? And so

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Speaker 1: I've been working hard to eliminate smells I don't like

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Speaker 1: and to introduce new sense that I do. But the

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Speaker 1: process of paying attention to the sense I like has

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Speaker 1: been kind of strange. I found lots of objectively nice

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Speaker 1: smelling soaps and lotions that I totally dig. But I've

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Speaker 1: also noticed other smells that aren't exactly nice, but that

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Speaker 1: I do find comforting and relaxing, like the musty smell

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Speaker 1: of old books or the scent of my favorite beach

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Speaker 1: at low tide. What was behind my preference for these

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Speaker 1: kind of weird smells. I really wanted to better understand

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Speaker 1: this complicated intersection between smell and happiness a bit better,

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Speaker 1: so I reached out to someone who also has a

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Speaker 1: thing for odd odors.

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Speaker 3: I know you're talking about the sense of skunk, my

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Speaker 3: dirty secret pleasure.

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Speaker 1: This is smell expert Rachel Hers.

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Speaker 3: Which actually, since I have come out of the closet,

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Speaker 3: many people come and confess to me that they also

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Speaker 3: really like the smell of skunk, so I am not alone.

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Speaker 1: Rachel's a neuroscientist who's been studying our sense of smell

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Speaker 1: for over thirty years. She's written books like The Scent

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Speaker 1: of Desire about why smell is so enigmatic and That's Disgusting,

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Speaker 1: a book exploring all things that turn our stomachs for

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Speaker 1: most people, the stench of a skunk definitely falls into

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Speaker 1: that second category. It's pretty awful. But Rachel's research has

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Speaker 1: shown that our relationship with smell is so personal that

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Speaker 1: even a scent evolved to drive us away can be

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Speaker 1: oddly attractive, and for Rachel, the smell of a skunk

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Speaker 1: only has positive associations.

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Speaker 3: I do like the scent of skunk, and the reason

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Speaker 3: for it is because the first time I ever smelled skunk,

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Speaker 3: I was in the backseat of the car. It was

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Speaker 3: probably maybe around four years old, It's hard to say exactly.

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Speaker 3: Middle of the summer, windows roll down, driving through the countryside,

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Speaker 3: beautiful day, and all all of a sudden, there's a

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Speaker 3: scent wafting into the car, and from the front seat,

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Speaker 3: my mom says, oh my, move that smell. Now, she

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Speaker 3: doesn't actually name it, she just says, I love that smell.

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Speaker 3: So here I am beautiful, happy, I love mommy. Mommy

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Speaker 3: said something positive. So whatever that smell is, you know,

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Speaker 3: I love that smell too. So fast forward about three

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Speaker 3: or four years and I'm on the playground and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, that same smell comes along and I go, oh,

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Speaker 3: I love that smell, And people go ooh, grows, You're

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Speaker 3: so weird. That's disgusting that skunk. And I did not

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Speaker 3: know that that was a skunk first of all, and

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Speaker 3: b that everyone thought like pepe lapew, whether it's really

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Speaker 3: believe it's horrible or not, there's all this negative connotation

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Speaker 3: around it. I was already perceived of as weird because

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Speaker 3: I was a newcomer to the school, so this really

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Speaker 3: sealed my fate as you know, someone who should be

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Speaker 3: stayed away from. And this really also explains how our

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Speaker 3: responses to all odors are actually based upon the meaning

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Speaker 3: that we have learned to be associated with the odor,

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Speaker 3: most times through personal experience. Could also be cultural. So

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Speaker 3: for example, it could be the case that I had

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Speaker 3: never smelt skunk before but just seen the Peppy la

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Speaker 3: Pew cartoons, in which case I would have formed a

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Speaker 3: negative association to that skunk smells bad. It is supposed

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Speaker 3: to be bad, even without having ever smelled it. So

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Speaker 3: we have this sort of interaction between our personal experience

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Speaker 3: cultural significance of a scent. And one of the other

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Speaker 3: things that's interesting too is that skunks are actually not

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Speaker 3: native to Scandinavia and so they're not known there. And

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Speaker 3: I had some friends from Sweden visiting me, actually all

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Speaker 3: faction experts as well, and we were walking down the

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Speaker 3: street near my house when I lived kind of in

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Speaker 3: a country ish area, and it was in the summertime,

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Speaker 3: and it just so happened, luckily enough for me, that

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Speaker 3: that scent was, you know, on the breeze. So I

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Speaker 3: turned to my colleagues and I said, have you ever

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Speaker 3: smelled that before? And they go no, And I said,

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Speaker 3: so what do you think of it? They oh, it's okay,

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Speaker 3: it's interesting. It's like, well, what is that? So I

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Speaker 3: said that skunk and then they were like, oh, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what does that supposed to me? And then I said,

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Speaker 3: everybody here thinks it's awful or there's a post that

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Speaker 3: think is awful. And they're like, oh, you know, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't have any good or bad necessarily to me. You know,

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Speaker 3: could be nice. And our responses to smells are based

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Speaker 3: on the meaning of the smell, but they're also based

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Speaker 3: on how strong the scent is to us. So I

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Speaker 3: have never been sprayed by a skunk. I've never had

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Speaker 3: my dogs spray by a skunk, so I have to

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Speaker 3: like live up close and personal with that scent. And

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Speaker 3: my encounters have been, like I mentioned, on the breeze,

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Speaker 3: just sort of at some kind of a distance. But

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Speaker 3: this also speaks to the fact that my intensity perception

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Speaker 3: of skunk is unique to me to a certain extent.

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Speaker 3: So other people may at the same intensity of just

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Speaker 3: on the breeze be perceiving certain chemicals in that bouquet

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Speaker 3: is really intense, even though other people might consider it

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Speaker 3: kind of moderate or weak. And if you think something

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Speaker 3: smells really intense, it's going to be more negative. So

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Speaker 3: there's also the genetics behind are all factory receptor expression,

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Speaker 3: and everybody's actually ever so slightly different from everyone else.

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Speaker 3: That is going to play into how strong something is,

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Speaker 3: and the more strong something is anything, even like your

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Speaker 3: favorite smell, if it's like super super pungent, they're gonna

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Speaker 3: be like, oh, that's too much like perfume, for instance.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm curious, given that negative experience on the playground,

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Speaker 1: did that make you kind of anti smell? Did you

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Speaker 1: like never want to think about that sensation because you

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Speaker 1: seem like somebody in Lisa as an adult who's kind

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Speaker 1: of into smell.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, absolutely, very very to smell. And I actually

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Speaker 3: always was like I always was a really sensory person.

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Speaker 3: Like my mother was always yelling at me stop squeezing

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Speaker 3: the bread. I was always definitely smelling everything around me.

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Speaker 3: But I actually thought that was normal.

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Speaker 1: But in some ways, being really into smell is really

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Speaker 1: not normal. In your book, you talk about how smell

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Speaker 1: is this orphaned cousin of the senses.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean there, Well, I think that there's

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Speaker 3: a disconnect between being experientially or perceptually into smell. So

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Speaker 3: there's definitely a lot of people that will only buy

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Speaker 3: certain products because of how they smell, like they're unscrewing

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Speaker 3: the cap of the shampoo in the drug store to

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Speaker 3: make sure that they like it. Are other kinds of

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Speaker 3: products like that that are definitely making a lot of

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Speaker 3: simple life choices based on how something smells to them,

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Speaker 3: and actually maybe even not so simple, maybe like your partner,

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Speaker 3: other kinds of things like that. So I think people's

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Speaker 3: actual experience with scent is much more deep and broad.

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Speaker 3: But the discussion around scent and the verbalization and the

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Speaker 3: recognition that this isn't just something trivial or just a

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Speaker 3: little accessory to my existence, but actually something really fundamental

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Speaker 3: to my existence. That's where the disc connect is, and

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Speaker 3: that's where most people as well as most scientists for

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Speaker 3: a long time, have really considered the sense of smell

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Speaker 3: to be so marginal and to really speak to how

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Speaker 3: much we disregard sent a couple of years ago, actually

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Speaker 3: so in the height of the pandemic, we collected the

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Speaker 3: data in the spring of twenty twenty one, developed a

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Speaker 3: survey to look at first of all, how people value

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Speaker 3: their sense of smell to hearing and vision, and then

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Speaker 3: also in comparison to some basic commodities like your cell

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Speaker 3: phone or a dream vacation or your hair, for instance.

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Speaker 3: We had different kinds of things physical and then more

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Speaker 3: sort of social and so on, and we found we

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Speaker 3: had a large data set of subjects who were both

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Speaker 3: a university level and also sort of real adults and

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Speaker 3: the forty something group. And amongst the college students, twenty

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Speaker 3: five percent of them would give up their sense of

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Speaker 3: smell to keep their cell phone, and fifty percent of

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Speaker 3: them would give up their sense of smell to keep

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Speaker 3: their hair. The adults group was a little bit less,

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Speaker 3: you know, throw it away, but they were pretty close,

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Speaker 3: like there was someone like they were like, oh, we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't do this at all. They were like maybe a

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Speaker 3: few points less willing to give up their sense of

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Speaker 3: smell for something else. But I was really quite stunned.

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Speaker 3: And also because of the fact that although we didn't

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Speaker 3: really have a good comparison, point like to do this

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Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen and see the comparison. But I thought,

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Speaker 3: because there was so much media about smell loss and

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Speaker 3: about how people's story is about how awful it was

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Speaker 3: they're even temporary smell loss and then long term smell loss,

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Speaker 3: that there would be this sort of recognition, like this

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Speaker 3: should be a high point of people saying, oh, my

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Speaker 3: sense of smell is actually more important than I thought

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Speaker 3: it was.

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Speaker 1: And this kind of fits with what we see just

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Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, we think of technologies right

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Speaker 1: like I'm wearing contact lenses right now that improve my vision.

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Speaker 1: We have hearing aids to improve people's hearing. We don't

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Speaker 1: actually have any technologies that help us improve our smell.

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Speaker 1: But that might be part and parcel of the fact

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Speaker 1: that we just like don't see smells that important.

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Speaker 3: Well, so two sides of that. One, you're absolutely right

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Speaker 3: and up until now, and I hope that this is

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Speaker 3: going to be changing soon. But the American Medical Association,

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Speaker 3: for example, values smell loss is only between one and

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Speaker 3: five percent of your life's worth. Value example, if you

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Speaker 3: were in a compensation case, like you become blind or

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Speaker 3: you lose another sense, how much should you be compensated

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Speaker 3: for that? Well, vision you get eighty five percent of

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Speaker 3: whatever your salary might be extended out for the next

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Speaker 3: twenty years. Per smell you get anywhere between one and

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Speaker 3: five percent. So really sort of idealize as hardly important

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Speaker 3: at all. However, as a function of the pandemic and

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Speaker 3: also new technology, new innovation, there's actually various things in

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Speaker 3: the pipeline that are going to be available relatively soon.

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Speaker 3: I hope that will in fact be things that can

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Speaker 3: help people's sense of smell be augmented, so sort of

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Speaker 3: the equivalent of a hearing aid for your nose.

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Speaker 1: And that's going to be really important because what I

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Speaker 1: learned from your book is that it really deeply affects

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Speaker 1: us in our happiness when we lose a sense of smell.

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Speaker 1: Give me a sense of what are the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that happen when we lose our old faction?

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Speaker 3: So what is really shocking to people? And unfortunately, unless

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Speaker 3: you've had the experience, you really just don't realize. I mean,

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Speaker 3: multeple will say, oh yeah, well, food, I can see

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Speaker 3: how that involved. Or maybe I couldn't smell the gas leaks,

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Speaker 3: so there's certain like danger things that okay, I could

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Speaker 3: understand that sort of more readily. But actually, our sense

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Speaker 3: of smell is involved in pretty much everything about our life,

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Speaker 3: in every way every day. So food, of course, because

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Speaker 3: what most people don't realize is that the sense of

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Speaker 3: taste is really only salt, sour, sweet, bitter and new mommy,

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Speaker 3: but everything else we experience when we're eating. So bacon,

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Speaker 3: for example, just taste like salt. The flavor is comprised

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Speaker 3: of one hundred and fifty different volatile organic compounds that

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Speaker 3: fuse together to make this bouquet of bacon. And people

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Speaker 3: use the word taste. They really should be saying flavor.

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Speaker 3: But all of that is to do with your nose.

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Speaker 3: Food really does lose pretty much almost all of its

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Speaker 3: hedonic pleasure qualities other than salt, sugar, and fat, and

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Speaker 3: people get very upset, and depending upon their personality their

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Speaker 3: previous relationship with food, it can become more and more serious.

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Speaker 3: There's also all the aspects of one's personal life which

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Speaker 3: we don't realize. I mean, our intimate relationships with other

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Speaker 3: people we don't quite necessarily grasp. But you hug somebody,

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Speaker 3: even if just like at a certain proximity, maybe they

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Speaker 3: have a certain perfume or colone they usually wear. When

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Speaker 3: you smell that, that's like kind of bringing you intensely

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Speaker 3: together with that person. Your memories are based very much

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Speaker 3: on things that you smell. People don't often realize that

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Speaker 3: they've smelled something and it's making them feel nostalgic, or

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Speaker 3: it's bringing them back to a specific moment in time,

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Speaker 3: and all these things as it's going along, are actually

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Speaker 3: triggering emotion. And this is because the area of the

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Speaker 3: brain where our conscious perception of scent takes place is

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Speaker 3: the same part of the brain where emotion, memory, and

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Speaker 3: association is being formed. So the same brain areas doing

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Speaker 3: these two things. So instantly that we smell something, we

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Speaker 3: are getting some kind of feeling, some kind of visceral

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Speaker 3: connection to that, and it can be negative. I mean,

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Speaker 3: for example, PTSD can be triggered by scent, and often

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Speaker 3: those episodes are amongst the worst because it's so visceral, overwhelming,

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Speaker 3: because of the emotional intensity of it. But likewise, we

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Speaker 3: can also get so much joy and direct connection to

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Speaker 3: other people, to our past, to places through our sense

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Speaker 3: of smell.

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Speaker 1: So that's one big misconception about smell, this idea that

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Speaker 1: we think it's like not that important, but in fact

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Speaker 1: it matters for so many different aspects of our lives.

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Speaker 1: I think the second misconception that we have about smell

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Speaker 1: involves where our different smell associations come from. I think

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Speaker 1: we assume that certain kinds of smells are kind of

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Speaker 1: built in as bad, certain kinds of smells are built

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Speaker 1: in as good. Is this really true or is this

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Speaker 1: another spot where we get old faction wrong.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much, there is no innate response to a scent

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Speaker 3: per se, And what I want to do is sort

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Speaker 3: of unpack a little bit of what is going on

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Speaker 3: when we're smelling itself. So, when we're smelling, we're perceiving

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Speaker 3: volatile chemicals, So that means chemicals that are floating through

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Speaker 3: the air we inhale. Those chemicals come in through our nostrils.

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Speaker 3: They then interact with the olfactory sensory neuron, which is

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Speaker 3: are basically at the level of our eyeb But when

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Speaker 3: we are smelling something. These chemicals can have a variety

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Speaker 3: of different effects on another system as well, which is

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Speaker 3: called the trigeminal system. It's a actually a tactile system

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Speaker 3: where for instance, if you're chopping onions, it makes your

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Speaker 3: eyes tier. If you're, you know, smelling mint, that cooling

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Speaker 3: sensation comes from trigeminal The hotness of a hot pepper

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Speaker 3: comes from trigeminal stimulation as well. So many smells also

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Speaker 3: trigger the trigeminal system. If at the same time as

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Speaker 3: smelling something, and the trigeminal system is activated very intensely,

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Speaker 3: that can feel painful. That's pretty much the only quote

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Speaker 3: unquote innate response we can have to a smell. If

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Speaker 3: it's activating the trigeminal system as well as the olfactory system,

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Speaker 3: and it's hurting, then it's going to be like immediately.

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Speaker 3: No other than that, we are pretty much a blank slate. Now.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to imagine that because it seems

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Speaker 3: as if you know, skunk is bad and roses good

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Speaker 3: and everything else. But really places to look for this

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Speaker 3: are number one newborns, although there's a little caveat there

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Speaker 3: as well, because actually by three months of gestation time

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Speaker 3: the fetus is already capable of detecting the chemicals in

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Speaker 3: amniotic fluid that its mother is consuming, so we're already learning.

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Speaker 3: And where this really plays into a major impact is

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Speaker 3: where you know, food preferences come from. So you can

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Speaker 3: have a baby that's born ready to sort of eat

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Speaker 3: the food of that culture because of the fact that

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Speaker 3: it's actually been already pre exposed to that food before

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Speaker 3: it was born. But the idea that you know there's

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Speaker 3: this sort of universal good, bad and otherwise is really

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Speaker 3: based on experience. Because newborns, if they're given, for instance,

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Speaker 3: vanilla versus something that smells like sweaty socks or vomit,

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Speaker 3: if you look at their facial expressions, which is how

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Speaker 3: you're going to judge if they're liking it or not,

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Speaker 3: you see everything from grinning at smelly socks and vomit

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Speaker 3: or making a discussed looking face to vanilla. And then

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Speaker 3: you look a cross culturally and you also see huge

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Speaker 3: variation in what is considered good or bad. And we

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Speaker 3: really see this in a food. So like the idea

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Speaker 3: of man's meat is and other men's poisoned there really

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Speaker 3: comes from this massive effect of culture.

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Speaker 1: One of the examples I loved was this interesting smell

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Speaker 1: of winter green and looking at how it's perceived between

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Speaker 1: Americans versus the British. Do you want to share that story?

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Speaker 1: Because I found it so compelling.

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Speaker 3: It's almost funny in a weird way, because, especially if

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Speaker 3: you're an American and you're listening to this, you're like, well,

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Speaker 3: of course winter green smells good. It's like it's a mint,

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Speaker 3: it's a candy, it's paired with sugar. You know who

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Speaker 3: doesn't like winter green? But it turns out that in

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Speaker 3: the UK sort of like you know, if they give

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Speaker 3: us the United Kingdom the US, two countries separated by

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Speaker 3: a common language, what else is different between the two

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Speaker 3: of us. Well, people in the UK generally can't stand

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Speaker 3: the smell of winter green because their experience of it

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Speaker 3: comes from the scent of this analgesic bomb, so medicine,

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Speaker 3: and then nowadays actually winter green is also the scent

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Speaker 3: of toilet cleaning products in the UK, so a medicine

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Speaker 3: b toilets, I don't think so not eating that anyway,

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Speaker 3: versus the US, where it's candy, and so really different

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Speaker 3: association positive in one case, negative.

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Speaker 1: In the other. So this explains why my friends from

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Speaker 1: England often turn their noses up at perfectly good American candy.

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Speaker 1: But could a brit learn to love winter green in

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Speaker 1: the same way I do?

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that we can train ourselves to love

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Speaker 1: smells if we can link them to positive experiences, and

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Speaker 1: we can even use these newly linked up scents to

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Speaker 1: lift our spirits when we're feeling down. We'll hear more

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Speaker 1: on all of that after a quick break in some

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Speaker 1: of those all important ads. Neuroscientist Rachel Hers had to

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Speaker 1: put up with lots of teasing when her schoolmates heard

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Speaker 1: that she liked the smell of skunks, those animals that

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Speaker 1: reminded her of happy summer car rides with her mom.

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Speaker 1: The power of smell to take us right back to

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Speaker 1: happy as well as sad moments from the past is

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Speaker 1: almost unparalleled. A whiff of cologne can remind us of

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Speaker 1: a long dead romance, while the smell of a sharpie

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Speaker 1: can transport us back to college exam time. While there

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Speaker 1: are some sense we'd happily ever smell again, Rachel suggests

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Speaker 1: we try to identify the smells that prompt a positive

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Speaker 1: reaction once we can turn to whenever we need a

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Speaker 1: little happiness boost her go to Fragrance is from a

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Speaker 1: childhood shampoo.

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Speaker 3: We moved around a lot when I was a kid.

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Speaker 3: My parents were professors. We lived in Europe, we lived

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Speaker 3: in the US. We were bouncing around pretty much every

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Speaker 3: ten months, sometimes every six months for the first, you know,

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Speaker 3: six or seven years of my life. So at the

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Speaker 3: age of seven, we land in Montreal, and it was

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Speaker 3: it was tough with all that sort of moving around,

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Speaker 3: especially when I first started school. I come in as

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Speaker 3: the newcomer. I don't even last necessarily the full year.

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Speaker 3: I'm yanked out. I go somewhere else. So, like I

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Speaker 3: shared with the story of the skunk, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: a newcomer and I'm weird already, and now I'm proclaiming that,

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Speaker 3: you know, skunk is one of my favorite smells. So

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Speaker 3: definitely ostracized, did not have friends, felt really alone, felt

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Speaker 3: really isolated, really desperately wanted social connection and so forth,

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Speaker 3: and I was pretty unhappy, and you know, there was

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Speaker 3: all kinds of things going on that very first year

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Speaker 3: in Montreal. It was a terrible winter too, was like

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Speaker 3: they had like crazy amounts of snowfall and really really cold,

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Speaker 3: so that really also impacted even just going outside to

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Speaker 3: play and so forth. And one day during these cold days,

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Speaker 3: someone came, like a literally traveling salesman or door to

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Speaker 3: door salesman with these packages of shampoo and conditioner and

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Speaker 3: I think also maybe like the bubbly stuff to put

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Speaker 3: in a bath. And he came to the door, and

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Speaker 3: I remember I was at the door. My mom and

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Speaker 3: I both nswered the door, and he had these bottles,

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Speaker 3: and he you know, do you want to buy them?

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Speaker 3: My Mom's probably like pretty much definitely know off the bat,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, wait a second, wait a second, can

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Speaker 3: we smell them? Because no, why not? I like to

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Speaker 3: smell And I think I could even already smell it

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Speaker 3: before unscrewing it because it has a really intense set.

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Speaker 3: And I was just unbelievably drawn to this smell and

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Speaker 3: absolutely adored it. It was like happiness magic in a bottle.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, please, please, please, can you buy this?

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Speaker 3: So she did and kept it in her bathroom, my

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Speaker 3: parents bathroom, so that I wasn't using it all the time.

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Speaker 3: And I think this also made a difference that it

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Speaker 3: was kind of like special occasion use, like bubble bath

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Speaker 3: or shampoo, and throughout that first year or two, when

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Speaker 3: I would feel really unhappy, I would actually just go

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Speaker 3: and smell it, and it would just immediately give me

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Speaker 3: this feeling of calm and just the pleasure in and

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Speaker 3: of itself of smelling. It was just phenomenal. And I

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Speaker 3: would say that that smell was unique to me at

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Speaker 3: the time. But it isn't like the smell from Mars.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is a scent that you will find

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Speaker 3: in other products. It actually has a very piny aroma

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Speaker 3: to it, which obviously I probably was familiar with with

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Speaker 3: some other things. But just this particular mixture kind of

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Speaker 3: captured a sort of a sweetness and other associations that

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Speaker 3: somehow just were like sublime to me. So it emptied out,

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Speaker 3: who knows when how many decades ago gone. I'm never

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Speaker 3: going to smell it again. You know. This is a

432
00:20:59,956 --> 00:21:02,316
Speaker 3: great sadness that I'm never going to, you know, be

433
00:21:02,356 --> 00:21:04,516
Speaker 3: able to smell this. I did remember a couple of

434
00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:06,916
Speaker 3: things about the bottle. One was that there was a

435
00:21:06,956 --> 00:21:09,436
Speaker 3: horseshoe on it, and the other was that it was

436
00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:12,876
Speaker 3: this deep kind of eveclimb blue. That was another aspect

437
00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:15,236
Speaker 3: to the color was really intense and I thought that

438
00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:19,316
Speaker 3: it was something like Alga Marine or something along those lines.

439
00:21:19,476 --> 00:21:21,716
Speaker 3: You know, this was post the book you're talking about.

440
00:21:21,756 --> 00:21:24,836
Speaker 3: So I talked, and actually when writing that book, afterwards,

441
00:21:24,836 --> 00:21:27,716
Speaker 3: people would contact me and say, I think maybe you

442
00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:29,676
Speaker 3: mean this, and none of them were right. Like they'd

443
00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:32,316
Speaker 3: try to be helpful, like I maybe it's this shampoo

444
00:21:32,356 --> 00:21:34,796
Speaker 3: that you were thinking of, this bubble bath, and like, no, no,

445
00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:38,516
Speaker 3: that's not it. Anyway, fast forward to maybe and now

446
00:21:38,596 --> 00:21:40,476
Speaker 3: maybe like eight or nine years ago, I'm not exactly

447
00:21:40,516 --> 00:21:43,356
Speaker 3: sure what, but I was doing it documentary and I

448
00:21:43,396 --> 00:21:46,756
Speaker 3: was being interviewed in a hotel room near Harvard Square,

449
00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:49,756
Speaker 3: and I told this story and like this long lost

450
00:21:49,996 --> 00:21:52,876
Speaker 3: love of this set that's gone. And then afterwards that

451
00:21:52,916 --> 00:21:54,156
Speaker 3: we were going to do and they were going to

452
00:21:54,276 --> 00:21:56,596
Speaker 3: be shooting some b roll and doing some other stuff,

453
00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:59,076
Speaker 3: was to go to this kind of old fashioned drug

454
00:21:59,076 --> 00:22:00,916
Speaker 3: store that has a little bit of everything. You know,

455
00:22:00,956 --> 00:22:03,996
Speaker 3: it has old shampoos, it has perfumes, it hadn't had

456
00:22:04,036 --> 00:22:07,276
Speaker 3: some floor to ceiling, all kinds of stuff. And I'm

457
00:22:07,316 --> 00:22:10,076
Speaker 3: in this drug store walking around, you know, smelling things,

458
00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:11,636
Speaker 3: looking at things, and all of a sudden I come

459
00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:13,916
Speaker 3: to this one little spot on the shelf and I

460
00:22:13,956 --> 00:22:17,196
Speaker 3: see this bottle that's that eveclind blue and it has

461
00:22:17,196 --> 00:22:20,436
Speaker 3: the horseshoe on it, and I just like, oh my god,

462
00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:22,836
Speaker 3: is this it? I pull it out. The person who

463
00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:24,676
Speaker 3: owns the store is like, what are you doing. I'm

464
00:22:24,716 --> 00:22:28,236
Speaker 3: opening up the package to sniff it, and it was it. Unsurprisingly,

465
00:22:28,276 --> 00:22:30,996
Speaker 3: I bought four bottles the whole amount that was there,

466
00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:32,756
Speaker 3: so and I don't even use it. I just go

467
00:22:32,836 --> 00:22:34,836
Speaker 3: and I sniff it from time to time. So I

468
00:22:34,876 --> 00:22:38,716
Speaker 3: think at the time I misremembered it being called aquamarine,

469
00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:41,876
Speaker 3: but it's actually Alga marine. Here's the bottle. I'm going

470
00:22:41,956 --> 00:22:44,356
Speaker 3: to open it up. I'm gonna give myself a little

471
00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:48,556
Speaker 3: boost of happiness. So it's just this phenomenal I'm so

472
00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:51,196
Speaker 3: I so love the smell. It's It's one of the

473
00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:54,516
Speaker 3: things with smell is actually really hard to verbalize and describe.

474
00:22:54,596 --> 00:22:56,796
Speaker 3: So even me, and even though you think I would

475
00:22:56,796 --> 00:22:58,716
Speaker 3: have had a good way of describing the smell after

476
00:22:58,956 --> 00:23:02,156
Speaker 3: loving it for so long, it's very difficult to describe.

477
00:23:02,516 --> 00:23:04,276
Speaker 3: Maybe actually that's one of the reasons why I love

478
00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:06,956
Speaker 3: the smell so much, because it's it's an odd combination.

479
00:23:07,036 --> 00:23:10,036
Speaker 3: It definitely has sort of like a blue spruce note.

480
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:12,876
Speaker 3: It has what in the fragrance world is called marine

481
00:23:13,036 --> 00:23:16,036
Speaker 3: sort of watery notes to it. It's kind of sweet,

482
00:23:16,316 --> 00:23:19,036
Speaker 3: maybe it even has like some cinnamon, kind of like

483
00:23:19,036 --> 00:23:22,076
Speaker 3: a spicy quality to it. But it's just this perfect

484
00:23:22,116 --> 00:23:24,796
Speaker 3: blend of all of that to me. I mean, you

485
00:23:24,876 --> 00:23:26,356
Speaker 3: might smell it and it could smell different to you.

486
00:23:26,476 --> 00:23:29,356
Speaker 3: So this is also we're all unique. Not only do

487
00:23:29,396 --> 00:23:30,956
Speaker 3: we have a unique body owner, we all have a

488
00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:33,916
Speaker 3: unique nose. So it smells everything slightly different to everyone.

489
00:23:34,036 --> 00:23:36,916
Speaker 3: But for me, this is the sort of spicy, sprucy

490
00:23:37,396 --> 00:23:42,516
Speaker 3: vanilla e kind of wonderfully blue bottle of algebraine.

491
00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:45,156
Speaker 1: This is kind of the beauty of smell is that

492
00:23:45,236 --> 00:23:48,436
Speaker 1: it seems to get attached to particular context, but not

493
00:23:48,476 --> 00:23:50,276
Speaker 1: just kind of any context. It seems to really get

494
00:23:50,316 --> 00:23:54,356
Speaker 1: attached to emotional context. So talk about biologically why smell

495
00:23:54,436 --> 00:23:55,316
Speaker 1: does that so well.

496
00:23:55,516 --> 00:23:59,516
Speaker 3: Really, the physiology neuroanatomy of the sense of smell is emotion,

497
00:23:59,716 --> 00:24:03,636
Speaker 3: and so from a even a neuroevolutionary perspective, the part

498
00:24:03,676 --> 00:24:06,796
Speaker 3: of the brain that is now subdivided into the different

499
00:24:06,836 --> 00:24:09,076
Speaker 3: structures of the limbic system, where we have the amygdala,

500
00:24:09,556 --> 00:24:13,436
Speaker 3: which is actually very central to the processing of smell,

501
00:24:13,476 --> 00:24:16,596
Speaker 3: as well as the hippocampus and other areas. That whole

502
00:24:16,716 --> 00:24:21,676
Speaker 3: structure was not subdivided, and in fact just for detecting

503
00:24:21,716 --> 00:24:26,356
Speaker 3: chemicals and smells are chemicals. So literally, our ability to

504
00:24:26,396 --> 00:24:30,876
Speaker 3: perceive emotion I like to use came from our ability

505
00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,676
Speaker 3: to detect chemicals to smell. And if you think about it,

506
00:24:33,716 --> 00:24:36,116
Speaker 3: the function of the sense of smell and the function

507
00:24:36,236 --> 00:24:39,836
Speaker 3: of emotion is very much the same. It's about what

508
00:24:39,876 --> 00:24:41,716
Speaker 3: do I like, what gives me joy? What am I

509
00:24:41,756 --> 00:24:43,956
Speaker 3: going to go towards, and what is bad for me?

510
00:24:43,996 --> 00:24:46,516
Speaker 3: What do I want to stay away from? And essentially

511
00:24:46,556 --> 00:24:50,276
Speaker 3: these mechanisms of survival. But as I mentioned before, the

512
00:24:50,316 --> 00:24:53,156
Speaker 3: part of the brain where we are experiencing conscious perception

513
00:24:53,236 --> 00:24:56,556
Speaker 3: of that's lemon, that skunk, that's caramel, and so on

514
00:24:56,916 --> 00:24:59,996
Speaker 3: is the amygdala hippochemical complex of the olympic system. So

515
00:25:00,116 --> 00:25:03,316
Speaker 3: the part of the brain that's actually processing emotion, associations

516
00:25:03,316 --> 00:25:06,996
Speaker 3: and memory is doing two jobs. It's doing that and

517
00:25:07,076 --> 00:25:09,956
Speaker 3: it is processing smell. So the primarial f cortex, like

518
00:25:09,996 --> 00:25:13,196
Speaker 3: we talked about the primary visual cortex, primary auditory cortex,

519
00:25:13,236 --> 00:25:16,476
Speaker 3: and so forth, the primarial factory cortex is the Amigdal

520
00:25:16,676 --> 00:25:18,196
Speaker 3: hippocampical complex, and.

521
00:25:18,196 --> 00:25:20,076
Speaker 1: Is that one of the reasons why smell can seem

522
00:25:20,116 --> 00:25:23,036
Speaker 1: so fast. I feel like sometimes I'm like, say, walking

523
00:25:23,076 --> 00:25:24,796
Speaker 1: down the street, and I'll have this moment where I'm

524
00:25:24,836 --> 00:25:27,516
Speaker 1: thinking of, like the joy of Christmas. I get all

525
00:25:27,516 --> 00:25:29,436
Speaker 1: these wonderful feelings, and then i realize like, oh, I'm

526
00:25:29,476 --> 00:25:32,556
Speaker 1: spelling pine or I'm walking by and I start thinking

527
00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:34,596
Speaker 1: of my mom and I'm like, oh, that's lilax, which

528
00:25:34,596 --> 00:25:36,836
Speaker 1: is one of her favorite flowers. Like, is that why

529
00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:40,076
Speaker 1: the emotion seems to come so fast when we're experiencing

530
00:25:40,116 --> 00:25:41,316
Speaker 1: these smell memories.

531
00:25:41,716 --> 00:25:43,556
Speaker 3: So I would argue, and this is sort of a

532
00:25:44,396 --> 00:25:47,196
Speaker 3: statement that's very hard to test, but I believe that

533
00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:52,436
Speaker 3: smell elicits emotion first, and then we figure out, Oh

534
00:25:52,596 --> 00:25:55,236
Speaker 3: it's Christmas. Oh it's my mother's perfume. Oh it's when

535
00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:57,036
Speaker 3: I was at my aunt's house and I had this.

536
00:25:57,396 --> 00:26:01,036
Speaker 3: The emotional aspect is first and foremost, because the brain

537
00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:03,916
Speaker 3: is being activated emotionally when we smell. It's the two

538
00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:06,916
Speaker 3: things aren't necessarily happening at once because it's the same

539
00:26:06,956 --> 00:26:09,796
Speaker 3: part of the brain, So you can't experience smell basically

540
00:26:09,836 --> 00:26:12,396
Speaker 3: without emotion. The emotion could be pretty bland. It could

541
00:26:12,396 --> 00:26:14,916
Speaker 3: be pretty like, you know, h hum or. If the

542
00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:17,436
Speaker 3: sense is really unfamiliar to you, it could even be

543
00:26:17,556 --> 00:26:19,436
Speaker 3: like kind of cautious. I don't know what this is,

544
00:26:19,476 --> 00:26:21,076
Speaker 3: so you know, I have to learn kind of the

545
00:26:21,116 --> 00:26:23,676
Speaker 3: meaning of it and so forth. But it is impossible

546
00:26:23,796 --> 00:26:26,316
Speaker 3: to sort of have a conscious perception of scent without

547
00:26:26,356 --> 00:26:29,436
Speaker 3: some emotionality involved, because it's the same brain area that

548
00:26:29,556 --> 00:26:32,836
Speaker 3: is doing both things. Sometimes we or maybe even a

549
00:26:32,836 --> 00:26:35,716
Speaker 3: lot of the time, we have experiences with sense sort

550
00:26:35,716 --> 00:26:38,516
Speaker 3: of fleeting lead that are kind of altering our mood

551
00:26:38,516 --> 00:26:40,516
Speaker 3: and we're not exactly sure what they are. But what

552
00:26:40,676 --> 00:26:43,036
Speaker 3: typically happens is we discount them. I mean. One of

553
00:26:43,036 --> 00:26:45,876
Speaker 3: the things that's sort of unfortunate about the sense of smell,

554
00:26:45,996 --> 00:26:48,116
Speaker 3: and I think one of the reasons why it's so

555
00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:51,876
Speaker 3: ignored is because smells are invisible, and we are so

556
00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:55,636
Speaker 3: visually oriented as a species that we're always like, what

557
00:26:55,836 --> 00:26:58,156
Speaker 3: is that? Where is that? You know, point to this,

558
00:26:58,196 --> 00:26:59,756
Speaker 3: point to that, and so forth. You know, for the

559
00:26:59,876 --> 00:27:03,036
Speaker 3: data in the sense of our experience that when something

560
00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:06,076
Speaker 3: isn't visible, or even when we don't know specifically what

561
00:27:06,156 --> 00:27:08,156
Speaker 3: the source is. So, for instance, you could hear something,

562
00:27:08,396 --> 00:27:10,556
Speaker 3: you'll know where is, you probably think most likely what

563
00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:13,276
Speaker 3: it is. But smell can be such a black box

564
00:27:13,316 --> 00:27:15,476
Speaker 3: in that way that if we don't know what something is,

565
00:27:15,596 --> 00:27:17,796
Speaker 3: we often say we don't even smell it. So people

566
00:27:17,796 --> 00:27:19,796
Speaker 3: can actually be presented with a smell that's, you know,

567
00:27:20,196 --> 00:27:22,956
Speaker 3: high intensity, they've never smelled it before, and I say, so,

568
00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:26,316
Speaker 3: can you smell something? People will say no, just because

569
00:27:26,316 --> 00:27:27,156
Speaker 3: they don't know what it is.

570
00:27:27,236 --> 00:27:29,036
Speaker 1: But that kind of means that that means that emotion

571
00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:31,596
Speaker 1: is getting in kind of under the hood, right, that

572
00:27:31,636 --> 00:27:34,356
Speaker 1: these the emotions that might be associated with smells can

573
00:27:34,396 --> 00:27:36,916
Speaker 1: be really powerfully affecting us even though we don't even

574
00:27:36,956 --> 00:27:38,076
Speaker 1: realize what the smell is.

575
00:27:38,556 --> 00:27:41,316
Speaker 3: So what I would say is that that particular comment

576
00:27:41,436 --> 00:27:43,396
Speaker 3: is if we don't know what the smell is, then

577
00:27:43,436 --> 00:27:47,156
Speaker 3: it doesn't have a prior association emotionally to us, And

578
00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:49,236
Speaker 3: if anything, it's going to elicit a little bit of

579
00:27:49,236 --> 00:27:52,036
Speaker 3: a cautious like what is that? Let me take a

580
00:27:52,076 --> 00:27:55,196
Speaker 3: step back, So better to play ignorant and go, oh, no, enough,

581
00:27:55,276 --> 00:27:58,796
Speaker 3: nothing to smell here, rather than sort of have a

582
00:27:58,836 --> 00:28:01,116
Speaker 3: commitment to it in some way or other. However, if

583
00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:03,236
Speaker 3: it is a scent that we have prior experience with,

584
00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:06,396
Speaker 3: even if it doesn't come to mind immediately what that is.

585
00:28:06,516 --> 00:28:08,436
Speaker 3: So you could, for instance, be walking down the street

586
00:28:08,476 --> 00:28:11,236
Speaker 3: and smell kind of floral send, not be able to

587
00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:13,156
Speaker 3: pinpoint it and not be able to name it, and

588
00:28:13,236 --> 00:28:16,076
Speaker 3: it suddenly makes you feel good because it just so

589
00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:19,396
Speaker 3: happens it is your mother's favorite flower. But you wouldn't

590
00:28:19,396 --> 00:28:22,516
Speaker 3: necessarily have realized that, but you still have that emotional connection,

591
00:28:22,636 --> 00:28:24,156
Speaker 3: so it does get under the hood that way.

592
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:25,956
Speaker 1: The other thing that you've shown in some of your

593
00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:29,036
Speaker 1: experimental work is that this kind of association can go

594
00:28:29,156 --> 00:28:31,396
Speaker 1: the other way. You've really looked at the domains in

595
00:28:31,436 --> 00:28:34,076
Speaker 1: which we build up these associations, even in kind of

596
00:28:34,156 --> 00:28:37,516
Speaker 1: strange context like, for example, playing good or bad video games.

597
00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:38,916
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about this study.

598
00:28:39,036 --> 00:28:42,516
Speaker 3: Yes, well, so we can engineer our own sense associations.

599
00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:44,556
Speaker 3: However we want to do that, we can actually do

600
00:28:44,636 --> 00:28:46,396
Speaker 3: it in a very positive way to sort of set

601
00:28:46,436 --> 00:28:49,396
Speaker 3: up our own scent apothecary, Like I can get fragrances

602
00:28:49,436 --> 00:28:51,756
Speaker 3: that I don't really know so I don't have past association,

603
00:28:52,156 --> 00:28:55,556
Speaker 3: and get myself into specific mindful, positive mood states with

604
00:28:55,636 --> 00:28:58,756
Speaker 3: different ones of them and create those positive connections so

605
00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:01,156
Speaker 3: that then when I go back to that particular smell,

606
00:29:01,196 --> 00:29:04,116
Speaker 3: it can get me like focused and relaxed or excited

607
00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:07,356
Speaker 3: and invigorated, or whatever the case might be. But what

608
00:29:07,396 --> 00:29:10,356
Speaker 3: we did in my lab was actually set up a

609
00:29:10,396 --> 00:29:13,156
Speaker 3: sense of failure and frustration. And what we did is

610
00:29:13,196 --> 00:29:15,436
Speaker 3: we've got a perfumer to make a fragrance. So it

611
00:29:15,476 --> 00:29:17,916
Speaker 3: was actually not unpleasant. It was sort of like in

612
00:29:17,956 --> 00:29:20,596
Speaker 3: the sort of neutral rating range, but it was unfamiliar

613
00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:22,956
Speaker 3: and that was key because if a smell is already

614
00:29:22,956 --> 00:29:26,436
Speaker 3: connected to something that you have in association too, it's

615
00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:29,516
Speaker 3: very hard to reconnect it to something else. So whatever

616
00:29:29,556 --> 00:29:32,956
Speaker 3: that first association is is the one that sticks, unless

617
00:29:33,076 --> 00:29:36,516
Speaker 3: the subsequent one is really powerful emotionally. And this is

618
00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:39,396
Speaker 3: why most of the time, when we smell something, it

619
00:29:39,476 --> 00:29:42,116
Speaker 3: tends to remind us more from earlier points of time

620
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,316
Speaker 3: in our life, because that's the first time we probably

621
00:29:44,396 --> 00:29:46,476
Speaker 3: encountered it. So like the first time you encounter whatever

622
00:29:46,516 --> 00:29:47,916
Speaker 3: it is is going to be what sticks. That we

623
00:29:48,076 --> 00:29:50,436
Speaker 3: experienced so much in childhood, that tends to be why

624
00:29:50,476 --> 00:29:52,996
Speaker 3: we're taken back to child so often. What we did

625
00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:56,396
Speaker 3: is we took this unusual chemical bouquet, and we had

626
00:29:56,396 --> 00:30:00,276
Speaker 3: people play a really frustrating computer game that was rigged

627
00:30:00,516 --> 00:30:02,796
Speaker 3: to make them lose money. Now it wasn't their money

628
00:30:02,796 --> 00:30:05,196
Speaker 3: in the first place. We gave them two dollars and

629
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:08,396
Speaker 3: fifty cents. And these were brown students, so they're highly motivated.

630
00:30:08,436 --> 00:30:10,836
Speaker 3: They want to get a plus on everything. So he said,

631
00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:13,396
Speaker 3: depending upon how good you had nothing to do with skill,

632
00:30:13,476 --> 00:30:15,876
Speaker 3: but how good you are, you can double your money

633
00:30:15,876 --> 00:30:17,956
Speaker 3: in five minutes by playing this game, and you know,

634
00:30:18,116 --> 00:30:21,396
Speaker 3: five dollars against a trivial amount. Losing two dollars and

635
00:30:21,476 --> 00:30:24,476
Speaker 3: fifty cents, however, believe it or not, is really draumatizing.

636
00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:28,076
Speaker 3: But also because the computer would make these noises like aunt,

637
00:30:28,196 --> 00:30:30,276
Speaker 3: you know, you got it wrong, and it got them

638
00:30:30,316 --> 00:30:33,276
Speaker 3: into a really negative mood state. So it's really easy,

639
00:30:33,356 --> 00:30:35,436
Speaker 3: as I'm sure you well know from your research, to

640
00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:38,276
Speaker 3: get people upset. Not very easy to get them beyond

641
00:30:38,396 --> 00:30:40,876
Speaker 3: kind of a baseline level of average happiness, but to

642
00:30:40,876 --> 00:30:43,676
Speaker 3: get them upset, it's really easy, and with highly motivated

643
00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:46,956
Speaker 3: college students, probably the easiest of all, especially if you're

644
00:30:46,996 --> 00:30:50,596
Speaker 3: telling them they're failing in something. So after this association

645
00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:53,476
Speaker 3: that we set up with this unfamiliar scent. We then

646
00:30:53,636 --> 00:30:57,356
Speaker 3: had them do another series of tasks with that scent

647
00:30:57,396 --> 00:31:00,316
Speaker 3: in the room or a different set that was equally unfamiliar,

648
00:31:00,316 --> 00:31:02,116
Speaker 3: so that perfumer came up with a couple of different

649
00:31:02,196 --> 00:31:05,076
Speaker 3: fragrances or people were assigned these other tasks in a

650
00:31:05,156 --> 00:31:08,076
Speaker 3: room that was uncented. And what we found on these

651
00:31:08,116 --> 00:31:11,556
Speaker 3: series of subsequent tasks when that scent that was associated

652
00:31:11,596 --> 00:31:14,796
Speaker 3: to frustration was also there, they did much worse on

653
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,476
Speaker 3: things that required persistence. So I'm going to stay with

654
00:31:17,556 --> 00:31:21,836
Speaker 3: this and try harder. Basically, performance which is interestingly not

655
00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:25,436
Speaker 3: the same as skill, so I can have an innate

656
00:31:25,476 --> 00:31:28,916
Speaker 3: ability which is not being reflected by my performance. By performance,

657
00:31:29,076 --> 00:31:31,556
Speaker 3: to be good has to be also motivated, like I

658
00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:33,836
Speaker 3: have to want to succeed and achieve. So I could

659
00:31:33,876 --> 00:31:35,836
Speaker 3: have the ability to do the test, but I don't

660
00:31:35,836 --> 00:31:38,716
Speaker 3: want to do the test. And basically we saw that disconnect.

661
00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:43,396
Speaker 3: We saw ability being maintained, but performance really modulating as

662
00:31:43,436 --> 00:31:45,476
Speaker 3: a function of whether the scent was the one that

663
00:31:45,516 --> 00:31:46,836
Speaker 3: was connected to failure or not.

664
00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:49,396
Speaker 1: So incredible, but this is not the only domain in

665
00:31:49,436 --> 00:31:53,636
Speaker 1: which smell can affect us. No discussion of emotion and

666
00:31:53,716 --> 00:31:57,036
Speaker 1: smell would be complete without talking about smell and sex.

667
00:31:57,956 --> 00:31:59,956
Speaker 1: As a person who doesn't know that much about alfaction,

668
00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:02,356
Speaker 1: I really have the strong sense that smell matters a

669
00:32:02,356 --> 00:32:05,236
Speaker 1: lot for attraction. What does the science actually tell us.

670
00:32:05,156 --> 00:32:07,996
Speaker 3: So, yes, smell does matter a lot for attraction. It

671
00:32:08,116 --> 00:32:11,676
Speaker 3: matters a lot for intimacy in general, because as I

672
00:32:11,716 --> 00:32:13,636
Speaker 3: mentioned before, like if you go and you hug someone,

673
00:32:13,716 --> 00:32:17,116
Speaker 3: you automatically get some of their smell. Like it's a

674
00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:21,236
Speaker 3: very proximal intimate sense, So you can smell them, whether

675
00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:26,476
Speaker 3: it's the body lotion, shampoo, cologne, natural body odor, maybe

676
00:32:26,556 --> 00:32:29,076
Speaker 3: a combination of all of the above, and that gives

677
00:32:29,116 --> 00:32:32,836
Speaker 3: you this sort of depth into that person. But above

678
00:32:32,876 --> 00:32:37,596
Speaker 3: and beyond that, it's actually extremely important in the attraction

679
00:32:37,796 --> 00:32:41,516
Speaker 3: that women in particular have towards an opposite sex partner.

680
00:32:41,556 --> 00:32:44,436
Speaker 3: And this is in fact based on evolutionary theory. So

681
00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:48,396
Speaker 3: there is also evidence that for homosexual relationship smell is

682
00:32:48,396 --> 00:32:51,356
Speaker 3: also important, but it doesn't quite have the same navigation

683
00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:54,956
Speaker 3: in terms of why in what we find specifically attractive

684
00:32:55,036 --> 00:32:58,156
Speaker 3: in our romantic partner as it does in this sort

685
00:32:58,156 --> 00:33:02,076
Speaker 3: of picture for heterosexuality, which is based on having children.

686
00:33:02,156 --> 00:33:05,116
Speaker 3: So are propagation and based on the idea that we're

687
00:33:05,156 --> 00:33:07,956
Speaker 3: all here just to replicate and get our genes out

688
00:33:07,996 --> 00:33:10,876
Speaker 3: into future generation. And as a function of that, there's

689
00:33:10,916 --> 00:33:13,516
Speaker 3: a different strategy that males and females would engage in

690
00:33:13,636 --> 00:33:17,916
Speaker 3: for doing that most successfully. And so for females the

691
00:33:18,276 --> 00:33:20,876
Speaker 3: cost is very, very high. You know, first of all,

692
00:33:21,036 --> 00:33:24,556
Speaker 3: nine months of pregnancy, where not only are you much

693
00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:27,476
Speaker 3: more vulnerable during those period that period of time you

694
00:33:27,596 --> 00:33:30,636
Speaker 3: need more energy, you can't move around to the same extent,

695
00:33:30,836 --> 00:33:33,596
Speaker 3: so you're in a definitely vulnerable state from your own

696
00:33:33,796 --> 00:33:38,116
Speaker 3: self interest of survival. Then after the infant is born,

697
00:33:38,556 --> 00:33:41,716
Speaker 3: you have at least one year where if you were

698
00:33:41,796 --> 00:33:44,996
Speaker 3: to get pregnant, you would stop lactating so not be

699
00:33:45,076 --> 00:33:47,636
Speaker 3: able to breastfeed. And this is you know, again kind

700
00:33:47,636 --> 00:33:50,076
Speaker 3: of based on our evolutionary history. This is not based

701
00:33:50,076 --> 00:33:52,476
Speaker 3: on having formula or anything else. But if you are

702
00:33:52,716 --> 00:33:55,316
Speaker 3: not lactating and your infant is not able to eat

703
00:33:55,356 --> 00:33:58,876
Speaker 3: solid food, then that infant can die. So you have

704
00:33:59,276 --> 00:34:02,756
Speaker 3: basically two years where you're out of commission for all

705
00:34:02,876 --> 00:34:06,396
Speaker 3: this energy and cost being spent on this one child

706
00:34:06,516 --> 00:34:10,796
Speaker 3: who hopefully will survive and throw and then have children herself,

707
00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:13,756
Speaker 3: and then go on and perpetuate your genes into subsequent generation.

708
00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:16,276
Speaker 3: But the other piece of this story is that that

709
00:34:16,396 --> 00:34:19,516
Speaker 3: child be healthy, and what determines your health will your

710
00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:22,636
Speaker 3: immune system determines your health. And it turns out that

711
00:34:22,676 --> 00:34:25,636
Speaker 3: the blueprint for your immune system, the genes for your

712
00:34:25,636 --> 00:34:29,836
Speaker 3: immune system, is externally represented by your body odor. Everybody

713
00:34:29,876 --> 00:34:33,316
Speaker 3: actually has a unique particular code for their immune system,

714
00:34:33,356 --> 00:34:36,036
Speaker 3: and everyone has a unique body odor. It says unique

715
00:34:36,036 --> 00:34:38,676
Speaker 3: as your fingerprint. This is how the tracking dog finds

716
00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:40,436
Speaker 3: you when you leave your T shirt behind in the

717
00:34:40,476 --> 00:34:43,396
Speaker 3: jail cell, and doesn't just go after any old random

718
00:34:43,436 --> 00:34:47,036
Speaker 3: person because nobody actually smells identical to you, except if

719
00:34:47,036 --> 00:34:49,596
Speaker 3: you had an identical twin eating the exact same food

720
00:34:49,596 --> 00:34:53,476
Speaker 3: as you. But taking that particular qualification aside, you have

721
00:34:53,796 --> 00:34:57,276
Speaker 3: your unique scent, and that unique scent is actually a

722
00:34:57,276 --> 00:35:00,636
Speaker 3: representation of the genes of your immune system. Now, from

723
00:35:00,676 --> 00:35:04,156
Speaker 3: a strategy perspective, the best strategy for a female is

724
00:35:04,196 --> 00:35:07,076
Speaker 3: to mate with someone whose immune system is going to

725
00:35:07,076 --> 00:35:10,796
Speaker 3: be complementary to her own, double up on any nasty, bad,

726
00:35:10,876 --> 00:35:14,956
Speaker 3: recessive traits, and cover things that she doesn't have coverage for.

727
00:35:15,116 --> 00:35:17,436
Speaker 3: So if I have coverage for diseases A through M

728
00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:19,316
Speaker 3: I want to be with someone who has enter Z

729
00:35:19,716 --> 00:35:22,756
Speaker 3: and that will ensure that the children I have with

730
00:35:22,796 --> 00:35:25,636
Speaker 3: that person are going to be maximally healthy. So that

731
00:35:25,756 --> 00:35:29,196
Speaker 3: actually seems to be part of what is going on

732
00:35:29,796 --> 00:35:35,796
Speaker 3: with attraction to somebody's natural body odor. But it really

733
00:35:35,836 --> 00:35:37,636
Speaker 3: turns out that it's not the case that we have

734
00:35:37,716 --> 00:35:40,516
Speaker 3: this little biological switch in our brain or nose going

735
00:35:40,676 --> 00:35:43,316
Speaker 3: you smell like you're genetically different in a good way,

736
00:35:43,396 --> 00:35:45,836
Speaker 3: you know, let's have a baby, but rather that you

737
00:35:45,916 --> 00:35:49,356
Speaker 3: don't smell like family, And it's basically like a scent

738
00:35:49,636 --> 00:35:52,556
Speaker 3: incest avoidance Q. Because from the point of view of

739
00:35:52,716 --> 00:35:55,036
Speaker 3: smelling like family, why that's a problem. We know that

740
00:35:55,116 --> 00:35:58,836
Speaker 3: when people are too genetically related, then there are problems.

741
00:35:58,956 --> 00:36:01,356
Speaker 3: First of all, there's even problems getting pregnant. Then if

742
00:36:01,396 --> 00:36:03,916
Speaker 3: you do have a baby, there's a greater likelihood for

743
00:36:04,116 --> 00:36:07,596
Speaker 3: recessive traits to be manifested, which can lead to, you know,

744
00:36:07,756 --> 00:36:11,116
Speaker 3: terrible diseases that don't allow for thriving, surviving and having

745
00:36:11,196 --> 00:36:11,996
Speaker 3: children yourself.

746
00:36:12,196 --> 00:36:14,156
Speaker 1: I think there's two really cool things about that. One

747
00:36:14,196 --> 00:36:16,916
Speaker 1: is that we have this learning mechanism that's so powerful

748
00:36:16,916 --> 00:36:21,636
Speaker 1: that we're like detecting the smell of different immune genes

749
00:36:21,756 --> 00:36:24,156
Speaker 1: by detecting whether or not somebody smells like our family

750
00:36:24,156 --> 00:36:26,756
Speaker 1: member and avoiding people if they smell like that. But

751
00:36:26,796 --> 00:36:28,876
Speaker 1: the other cool thing is that that suggests that we're

752
00:36:28,876 --> 00:36:32,316
Speaker 1: all doing it differently, Like there's not one like awesome

753
00:36:32,396 --> 00:36:35,356
Speaker 1: smelling guy out there. Every single one of us thinks

754
00:36:35,396 --> 00:36:38,036
Speaker 1: is like really old, factor really hot. Yeah. Absolutely, It's

755
00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:39,836
Speaker 1: kind of different for everybody, which is cool.

756
00:36:40,076 --> 00:36:43,556
Speaker 3: Yes, So, as a female looking for my ideal scent

757
00:36:43,756 --> 00:36:47,436
Speaker 3: match male, in terms of this whole being heterosexual reproduction,

758
00:36:47,716 --> 00:36:49,676
Speaker 3: there's no brad pit of smells. There's going to be

759
00:36:49,716 --> 00:36:54,676
Speaker 3: a different brad pit for every woman. So the idea

760
00:36:54,756 --> 00:36:57,956
Speaker 3: that we're basically all have a different sort of beauty

761
00:36:58,036 --> 00:37:01,396
Speaker 3: metric or sexiness metric for who the best match will

762
00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:05,116
Speaker 3: be is based on the individuality of our own genetic makeup.

763
00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:07,836
Speaker 3: The smell of family, though, can still be positive, but

764
00:37:07,996 --> 00:37:10,436
Speaker 3: not in a sexual way. So the smell of family

765
00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:13,196
Speaker 3: can be like really comforting, really cozy. I want to

766
00:37:13,236 --> 00:37:15,716
Speaker 3: hug from this person, but that's different from I want

767
00:37:15,756 --> 00:37:17,636
Speaker 3: to have sex with this person. So there is this

768
00:37:17,916 --> 00:37:23,876
Speaker 3: difference between wanting someone sexually versus wanting someone emotionally, although

769
00:37:23,876 --> 00:37:25,996
Speaker 3: they too can also become the same when we're in

770
00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:28,916
Speaker 3: an intimate, long term relationship with someone.

771
00:37:29,276 --> 00:37:31,836
Speaker 1: In case you were wondering, I googled bread pit, and

772
00:37:32,036 --> 00:37:35,796
Speaker 1: at least according to actress Jennifer Lawrence, he smells like sandalwood,

773
00:37:36,036 --> 00:37:38,916
Speaker 1: which may or may not be your thing. After the break,

774
00:37:39,076 --> 00:37:41,396
Speaker 1: we'll look more atcent and memory and what you can

775
00:37:41,436 --> 00:37:44,236
Speaker 1: do if disaster strikes and your sense of smell starts

776
00:37:44,236 --> 00:37:54,876
Speaker 1: to fade. The Happiness lab will be right back. No

777
00:37:54,996 --> 00:37:57,596
Speaker 1: sooner had the warm liquid mixed with the crumbs touched

778
00:37:57,596 --> 00:38:00,036
Speaker 1: my palate than a shudder ran through me, and I

779
00:38:00,116 --> 00:38:04,036
Speaker 1: stopped intent upon the extraordinary thing that was happening to me.

780
00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:06,796
Speaker 1: This is one of the most famous lines and Marcel

781
00:38:06,876 --> 00:38:10,196
Speaker 1: proosts in Search for Lost Time. The story's narrator has

782
00:38:10,236 --> 00:38:12,556
Speaker 1: just dipped a Madeline cake into a cup of tea

783
00:38:12,676 --> 00:38:15,596
Speaker 1: and taken a bite. The scent of that magical combination

784
00:38:15,756 --> 00:38:18,676
Speaker 1: of tea and cake sends Prus's character right back to

785
00:38:18,676 --> 00:38:23,196
Speaker 1: his fondest childhood memories. An exquisite pleasure had invaded my senses,

786
00:38:23,276 --> 00:38:26,516
Speaker 1: the narrator says, and at once the vicissitudes of life

787
00:38:26,556 --> 00:38:31,316
Speaker 1: had become indifferent to me. Its disasters, innocuous it's brevity illusory.

788
00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:34,836
Speaker 1: This is perhaps the greatest ever description of how our

789
00:38:34,876 --> 00:38:37,756
Speaker 1: senses can briefly transport us to a whole other plane

790
00:38:37,756 --> 00:38:41,436
Speaker 1: of joyful existence. It's a passage that always intrigued Rachel Hers,

791
00:38:41,796 --> 00:38:44,836
Speaker 1: even prompting the neuroscientist to carry out her own research

792
00:38:44,916 --> 00:38:46,436
Speaker 1: on how smell and memory mix.

793
00:38:46,876 --> 00:38:48,796
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of things that are going on

794
00:38:48,956 --> 00:38:51,556
Speaker 3: in Prus's description of his Madeline Biscuit and lind and

795
00:38:51,556 --> 00:38:53,996
Speaker 3: tea that I think are really profound and really speak

796
00:38:54,036 --> 00:38:56,676
Speaker 3: to the experience of what happens when a scent evokes

797
00:38:56,676 --> 00:38:59,876
Speaker 3: a memory. One of the things that's really brought out

798
00:38:59,916 --> 00:39:04,116
Speaker 3: by his description is that the experience of emotion comes first.

799
00:39:04,156 --> 00:39:07,636
Speaker 3: He's writing about how he feels when he takes this

800
00:39:07,916 --> 00:39:12,356
Speaker 3: flavor can call in before he ever gets to and

801
00:39:12,396 --> 00:39:15,796
Speaker 3: like literally pages before he gets to my aunt's house, Incumbra,

802
00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:18,556
Speaker 3: this is what was happening, and so forth. So the primacy,

803
00:39:18,636 --> 00:39:22,356
Speaker 3: the sort of phenomenological aspect of emotion first and then

804
00:39:22,596 --> 00:39:26,116
Speaker 3: cognition after is really fleshed out in the way that

805
00:39:26,156 --> 00:39:29,156
Speaker 3: he narrates that experience. But a couple of other things

806
00:39:29,236 --> 00:39:32,076
Speaker 3: connected to that which I think are very important and interesting.

807
00:39:32,156 --> 00:39:34,716
Speaker 3: So we have certain things that will remind us of

808
00:39:34,836 --> 00:39:38,756
Speaker 3: particular past moments in our life, autobiographical memories. Now, in

809
00:39:38,796 --> 00:39:42,436
Speaker 3: research that I've done and other people have subsequently replicated

810
00:39:42,516 --> 00:39:44,676
Speaker 3: and so forth, I found that when we have a

811
00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:47,756
Speaker 3: memory that's triggered by ascent, that memory is not necessarily

812
00:39:47,796 --> 00:39:51,076
Speaker 3: more accurate or reliable like this is, you know, the truth,

813
00:39:51,156 --> 00:39:55,236
Speaker 3: as it were, but it is definitely more emotional and evocative.

814
00:39:55,276 --> 00:39:57,996
Speaker 3: We feel much more brought back to that original time

815
00:39:58,036 --> 00:40:00,356
Speaker 3: and place, and that is because of the part of

816
00:40:00,396 --> 00:40:02,836
Speaker 3: the brain that's processing emotion and memory is the same

817
00:40:02,836 --> 00:40:05,436
Speaker 3: part of the brain that's processing our conscience perception of

818
00:40:05,516 --> 00:40:09,076
Speaker 3: sent So we're getting that blast of emotion and real

819
00:40:09,196 --> 00:40:12,076
Speaker 3: memory sort of like recapitulation at the same time as

820
00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:15,756
Speaker 3: we're getting that conscious Now I'm smelling Madeleine and Linden tea,

821
00:40:15,956 --> 00:40:18,356
Speaker 3: or now I'm smelling the bubble bath from when I

822
00:40:18,396 --> 00:40:20,396
Speaker 3: was seven years old, or whatever the case might be.

823
00:40:20,516 --> 00:40:22,556
Speaker 3: But the other thing that's really important here, and I

824
00:40:22,556 --> 00:40:25,716
Speaker 3: think really special, is that we have millions and millions

825
00:40:25,756 --> 00:40:27,516
Speaker 3: of different things that have happened to us in our life,

826
00:40:27,516 --> 00:40:30,156
Speaker 3: and the older we are, the more they accrue. I

827
00:40:30,156 --> 00:40:32,236
Speaker 3: don't know how many of them we remember, and there

828
00:40:32,236 --> 00:40:34,916
Speaker 3: are many of them which we may never remember if

829
00:40:34,956 --> 00:40:38,996
Speaker 3: it weren't for stumbling across a particular scent that brings

830
00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:41,436
Speaker 3: you back to that particular time and place. So Proofs

831
00:40:41,596 --> 00:40:44,556
Speaker 3: actually writes like he had totally forgotten about this episode

832
00:40:44,556 --> 00:40:47,036
Speaker 3: with his aunt and Combra, and it wasn't until he

833
00:40:47,196 --> 00:40:50,476
Speaker 3: came to have this sort of reconnection with this sort

834
00:40:50,476 --> 00:40:54,436
Speaker 3: of unique blend of Linden tea and Madeleine cookie that

835
00:40:54,636 --> 00:40:56,756
Speaker 3: he was brought back to that. And all kinds of

836
00:40:56,836 --> 00:40:58,996
Speaker 3: things like that can happen to us throughout our lives,

837
00:40:58,996 --> 00:41:02,076
Speaker 3: where we might never come across that same scent to

838
00:41:02,076 --> 00:41:04,156
Speaker 3: bring us back to that same moment in time. And

839
00:41:04,196 --> 00:41:07,396
Speaker 3: that's further complicated by the fact that our interpretation of

840
00:41:07,396 --> 00:41:09,716
Speaker 3: a scent is due to the context that we're in

841
00:41:09,756 --> 00:41:13,796
Speaker 3: when we're having the perceptual experience. So if Proofs weren't

842
00:41:13,996 --> 00:41:16,636
Speaker 3: actually having a biscuit and a cup of tea sort

843
00:41:16,676 --> 00:41:19,676
Speaker 3: of the same thing, but just somehow came across the

844
00:41:19,676 --> 00:41:23,356
Speaker 3: aroma of Lindon matt Len merged together, maybe if he

845
00:41:23,476 --> 00:41:27,036
Speaker 3: was like walking down the street in Paris, he could think, oh,

846
00:41:27,076 --> 00:41:29,556
Speaker 3: that's the scent of somebody's perfume or whatever it was,

847
00:41:29,636 --> 00:41:32,756
Speaker 3: and not be reminded of his aunt and his childhood

848
00:41:32,756 --> 00:41:35,796
Speaker 3: because the context was so different. So we need a

849
00:41:35,876 --> 00:41:38,916
Speaker 3: variety of things kind of overlay to bring the meaning

850
00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:42,076
Speaker 3: to be the same, to then bring us back to

851
00:41:42,276 --> 00:41:45,596
Speaker 3: that moment in our past which might otherwise be forever forgotten.

852
00:41:45,676 --> 00:41:47,876
Speaker 3: So I think a way of really having a full

853
00:41:47,916 --> 00:41:50,876
Speaker 3: life story is to be paying attention to cents throughout

854
00:41:50,876 --> 00:41:52,756
Speaker 3: it so that it can bring you back if you

855
00:41:52,756 --> 00:41:53,596
Speaker 3: have the opportunity.

856
00:41:53,676 --> 00:41:56,276
Speaker 1: But it seems like this kind of recognition also gives

857
00:41:56,316 --> 00:41:58,836
Speaker 1: us something we can do to make memories a little

858
00:41:58,836 --> 00:42:01,356
Speaker 1: bit more emotional, which is that we can add a scent.

859
00:42:01,516 --> 00:42:03,156
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, you know, maybe I'm going on a

860
00:42:03,196 --> 00:42:05,556
Speaker 1: new vacation that I really want to remember, or maybe

861
00:42:05,596 --> 00:42:08,196
Speaker 1: it's my wedding day and I want to remember all

862
00:42:08,236 --> 00:42:10,636
Speaker 1: the parts, like when I was getting dressed and what happened.

863
00:42:10,876 --> 00:42:12,876
Speaker 1: The suggestion there that I never would have thought of

864
00:42:12,956 --> 00:42:15,556
Speaker 1: before thinking about your research is that maybe if we

865
00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:18,916
Speaker 1: bring in a particular smell, that'll make it easier later

866
00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:21,036
Speaker 1: on to go back to exactly what we were feeling

867
00:42:21,076 --> 00:42:22,756
Speaker 1: at those moments. Is that kind of what we see

868
00:42:22,756 --> 00:42:23,916
Speaker 1: from the research.

869
00:42:23,636 --> 00:42:26,996
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I do this. I actually create sort of

870
00:42:27,036 --> 00:42:31,076
Speaker 3: my own personal set memories for particular important episodes. So

871
00:42:31,076 --> 00:42:33,956
Speaker 3: if I'm going on a special vacation, I will go

872
00:42:34,156 --> 00:42:37,996
Speaker 3: to a fragrance store and go through a whole bunch

873
00:42:38,036 --> 00:42:41,516
Speaker 3: of different fragrances, like pick out one that's something that's unfamiliar.

874
00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:43,756
Speaker 3: Obviously I have to like it too, and then for

875
00:42:43,836 --> 00:42:46,676
Speaker 3: the period of that vacation, I wear that scent every day,

876
00:42:46,996 --> 00:42:49,996
Speaker 3: and then I don't wear it after the vacation, and

877
00:42:50,036 --> 00:42:52,636
Speaker 3: then when I want to be particularly reminded of it,

878
00:42:52,716 --> 00:42:54,236
Speaker 3: I will smell it, or if I want to like

879
00:42:54,316 --> 00:42:57,756
Speaker 3: kind of reconjure the particular experience, I will wear it

880
00:42:57,796 --> 00:42:59,796
Speaker 3: for a night or whatever the case might be, and

881
00:42:59,836 --> 00:43:03,316
Speaker 3: then I am really brought back because the set snapshot

882
00:43:03,516 --> 00:43:06,156
Speaker 3: to that experience, which is much more than just a visual.

883
00:43:06,196 --> 00:43:08,756
Speaker 3: It's so much more emotional now. One thing that I

884
00:43:08,796 --> 00:43:11,916
Speaker 3: do have to caution people about is this problem of

885
00:43:11,956 --> 00:43:15,076
Speaker 3: adaptation and habituation, where we stop being able to detect

886
00:43:15,116 --> 00:43:17,836
Speaker 3: the scent if we over expose ourselves to it. So

887
00:43:17,996 --> 00:43:19,396
Speaker 3: you know, if you think about if you wear a

888
00:43:19,396 --> 00:43:21,516
Speaker 3: fragrance on a daily basis, or if you use the

889
00:43:21,556 --> 00:43:23,996
Speaker 3: same kind of scented lotion or whatever the case might be.

890
00:43:24,236 --> 00:43:27,316
Speaker 3: You may hardly smell that scent anymore, or you barely

891
00:43:27,316 --> 00:43:29,716
Speaker 3: smell it at all. That's why it's really important to

892
00:43:29,796 --> 00:43:33,196
Speaker 3: be very sort of judicious and use sort of tiny amounts,

893
00:43:33,236 --> 00:43:35,876
Speaker 3: sort of cautious about overdoing it, of only wearing it

894
00:43:35,916 --> 00:43:37,396
Speaker 3: for a short period of time. So if I went

895
00:43:37,436 --> 00:43:39,676
Speaker 3: away for a month, it would not be advisable for

896
00:43:39,756 --> 00:43:41,916
Speaker 3: me necessarily be wearing this every day if I want

897
00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:44,316
Speaker 3: to get the full bandwidth of that experience, because over

898
00:43:44,356 --> 00:43:46,316
Speaker 3: that month, I'm going to stop really being able to

899
00:43:46,316 --> 00:43:49,316
Speaker 3: be sensitive to smelling that fragrance. And so maybe the

900
00:43:49,356 --> 00:43:51,556
Speaker 3: beginning of the month long trip that's going to be

901
00:43:51,636 --> 00:43:54,476
Speaker 3: highlighted for me, but the other parts that might fade out.

902
00:43:54,556 --> 00:43:57,556
Speaker 3: So for a short period of time and not doing

903
00:43:57,596 --> 00:44:00,636
Speaker 3: it overboard using a scent to create a memory and

904
00:44:00,676 --> 00:44:02,356
Speaker 3: then being able to come back to it. But you

905
00:44:02,396 --> 00:44:05,156
Speaker 3: also can't be like smelling that perfume every day afterwards

906
00:44:05,196 --> 00:44:07,636
Speaker 3: to remember the trip, because then the genie will also

907
00:44:07,716 --> 00:44:08,236
Speaker 3: leave the bottle.

908
00:44:08,596 --> 00:44:10,556
Speaker 1: It seems like that kind of caveat also comes in

909
00:44:10,596 --> 00:44:12,836
Speaker 1: when we start thinking about ways that we can use

910
00:44:12,956 --> 00:44:16,356
Speaker 1: sense to feel better. Generally, you know, everybody's heard this

911
00:44:16,476 --> 00:44:18,996
Speaker 1: term of romatherapy. Is this the kind of thing we

912
00:44:19,036 --> 00:44:22,316
Speaker 1: can really use to feel better and improve our emotions

913
00:44:22,316 --> 00:44:23,716
Speaker 1: in our daily life more generally?

914
00:44:24,636 --> 00:44:27,956
Speaker 3: Yes, so absolutely so. I definitely recommend for people to

915
00:44:28,236 --> 00:44:32,036
Speaker 3: find fragrances that they don't know from before, so not

916
00:44:32,116 --> 00:44:34,996
Speaker 3: something you already have an association to, something that is

917
00:44:35,116 --> 00:44:38,956
Speaker 3: unfamiliar to you, and then specifically pair that with getting

918
00:44:38,996 --> 00:44:42,196
Speaker 3: into some kind of positive emotional state. And like I said,

919
00:44:42,196 --> 00:44:45,196
Speaker 3: you can have a whole apothecary, like get eight or

920
00:44:45,236 --> 00:44:48,396
Speaker 3: ten different fragrances and then get into particular emotional states

921
00:44:48,396 --> 00:44:51,236
Speaker 3: and then smell those smells when you're in that state,

922
00:44:51,596 --> 00:44:53,836
Speaker 3: and then when you want to get into that state,

923
00:44:54,116 --> 00:44:56,916
Speaker 3: smell it again. So let's say I have a job

924
00:44:56,956 --> 00:44:59,276
Speaker 3: interview that I'm really nervous about and I want to

925
00:44:59,276 --> 00:45:01,436
Speaker 3: really do well, and I really want to feel confident

926
00:45:01,476 --> 00:45:04,516
Speaker 3: and energized. Well I have that sense that I was

927
00:45:05,036 --> 00:45:07,676
Speaker 3: using when I was in this really confident, energized state.

928
00:45:08,036 --> 00:45:10,236
Speaker 3: I then smell it before my job interview and then

929
00:45:10,276 --> 00:45:12,836
Speaker 3: I can go in and give them the best Or

930
00:45:12,956 --> 00:45:15,676
Speaker 3: if I'm feeling really stressed out and there's another scent

931
00:45:15,716 --> 00:45:19,436
Speaker 3: that I've connected to feeling relaxed and soothed and you know,

932
00:45:19,676 --> 00:45:22,756
Speaker 3: chilling out and down vibes in a good way. Then

933
00:45:22,996 --> 00:45:24,876
Speaker 3: I can go and ice and smell that. But the

934
00:45:24,956 --> 00:45:27,516
Speaker 3: idea here is not to be doing it too much,

935
00:45:27,596 --> 00:45:29,956
Speaker 3: Like you can't this can't be your like your daily

936
00:45:30,036 --> 00:45:32,236
Speaker 3: drug of choice. You can't keep going back to it

937
00:45:32,316 --> 00:45:34,676
Speaker 3: because the more you go back to it, the more

938
00:45:34,916 --> 00:45:37,316
Speaker 3: two things happen. When you will adapt to it just

939
00:45:37,476 --> 00:45:39,716
Speaker 3: not be able to smell it nearly as well, So

940
00:45:39,876 --> 00:45:42,676
Speaker 3: the sensitivity to a decrease. But it's also the case

941
00:45:42,716 --> 00:45:44,476
Speaker 3: like if you keep going back to the scent that

942
00:45:44,916 --> 00:45:47,156
Speaker 3: makes you feel calm when you're in a frazzled state,

943
00:45:47,636 --> 00:45:51,036
Speaker 3: over time that scent can also become connected to being frazzled,

944
00:45:51,436 --> 00:45:54,596
Speaker 3: So it's sort of losing its benefit in that regard

945
00:45:54,596 --> 00:45:54,996
Speaker 3: as well.

946
00:45:55,156 --> 00:45:57,236
Speaker 1: I think another thing I find so weird about smell

947
00:45:57,396 --> 00:46:01,196
Speaker 1: is that it's really hard to remember smells. Like I

948
00:46:01,196 --> 00:46:03,996
Speaker 1: can image, you know, what my car looks like when

949
00:46:04,036 --> 00:46:06,556
Speaker 1: I was a teenager, and I can kind of remember

950
00:46:06,716 --> 00:46:08,676
Speaker 1: what that podcast sound like, you know that I listened

951
00:46:08,676 --> 00:46:11,076
Speaker 1: to you last week, or remember what someone's voice sounds like,

952
00:46:11,516 --> 00:46:14,996
Speaker 1: But it's really hard to remember, like a smell, like

953
00:46:15,036 --> 00:46:17,876
Speaker 1: even very familiar smells like baking cookies. I've smelled that

954
00:46:17,916 --> 00:46:19,316
Speaker 1: a bunch in my life, but when I try to

955
00:46:19,356 --> 00:46:22,476
Speaker 1: image that in my brain, I like kind of can't.

956
00:46:23,036 --> 00:46:25,956
Speaker 3: So it seems as though we don't actually have the

957
00:46:25,996 --> 00:46:31,956
Speaker 3: capacity to in our brain's nose keep stored the sensory representation,

958
00:46:32,076 --> 00:46:35,316
Speaker 3: so the percept itself, so we can know things about it,

959
00:46:35,436 --> 00:46:38,596
Speaker 3: like baking cookies. We have all kinds of semantic information

960
00:46:38,836 --> 00:46:41,516
Speaker 3: visual information about it and so on, and know that

961
00:46:41,556 --> 00:46:43,796
Speaker 3: we really like it. But to really get that smell

962
00:46:43,876 --> 00:46:47,396
Speaker 3: recapitulated at will, you know, just because I feel like

963
00:46:47,436 --> 00:46:49,596
Speaker 3: it's this the way you can visualize your car or

964
00:46:49,716 --> 00:46:52,076
Speaker 3: think about the song and really hear it, we don't

965
00:46:52,076 --> 00:46:54,076
Speaker 3: seem to be able to do that with smell. Now,

966
00:46:54,436 --> 00:46:57,676
Speaker 3: expert perfumers will argue with you that they can do it,

967
00:46:57,716 --> 00:47:00,836
Speaker 3: and it is possible that they actually can, because one

968
00:47:00,836 --> 00:47:02,876
Speaker 3: of the things that's really interesting about the sense of

969
00:47:02,916 --> 00:47:04,876
Speaker 3: smell is the more experience we have with it, the

970
00:47:04,916 --> 00:47:08,396
Speaker 3: greater of the neuroplasticity develops with it, so that people

971
00:47:08,436 --> 00:47:13,116
Speaker 3: who spend their livelihood doing smelling can potentially be able

972
00:47:13,156 --> 00:47:15,916
Speaker 3: to eventually store at least a certain amount of these

973
00:47:15,916 --> 00:47:19,756
Speaker 3: representations to be able to call them up perceptually. It will,

974
00:47:19,876 --> 00:47:22,196
Speaker 3: and it is the case that occasionally we will have

975
00:47:22,316 --> 00:47:26,036
Speaker 3: dreams where we experience the perception of scent. Also know

976
00:47:26,076 --> 00:47:29,676
Speaker 3: there's certain conditions like migraine or even epileptic seizures, which

977
00:47:29,716 --> 00:47:33,276
Speaker 3: for certain individuals are preceded by smelling something that isn't

978
00:47:33,316 --> 00:47:36,316
Speaker 3: actually there. But for the average person with just a

979
00:47:36,476 --> 00:47:39,956
Speaker 3: daily life experience, who don't seem to be carrying around

980
00:47:39,996 --> 00:47:42,636
Speaker 3: all these stored representations, we know what the smell means,

981
00:47:42,636 --> 00:47:44,676
Speaker 3: we know the feeling that it elicits as soon as

982
00:47:44,676 --> 00:47:46,836
Speaker 3: we encounter it. We don't walk around with sort of

983
00:47:46,916 --> 00:47:50,116
Speaker 3: the archive of all sense perceptually in our head.

984
00:47:50,516 --> 00:47:52,596
Speaker 1: You've also argued that we need to make sure that

985
00:47:52,636 --> 00:47:55,196
Speaker 1: we're using our smell well, that we kind of need

986
00:47:55,196 --> 00:47:56,916
Speaker 1: to get practiced up on it and take it a

987
00:47:56,916 --> 00:47:59,276
Speaker 1: little bit more seriously. So what are ways that we

988
00:47:59,316 --> 00:48:01,716
Speaker 1: can kind of exercise our smell a little bit more

989
00:48:01,716 --> 00:48:02,756
Speaker 1: in our daily lives.

990
00:48:02,956 --> 00:48:06,436
Speaker 3: So having a good sense of smell is actually critical

991
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:09,836
Speaker 3: for a huge aspect of this in our life, our

992
00:48:09,876 --> 00:48:12,316
Speaker 3: mental health, our physical health, not just the things we've

993
00:48:12,316 --> 00:48:15,356
Speaker 3: been talking about today like emotion and memory and connection

994
00:48:15,396 --> 00:48:18,156
Speaker 3: to other people, but literally the functioning of our brain

995
00:48:18,276 --> 00:48:20,756
Speaker 3: and our body. So people who have a healthy health

996
00:48:20,916 --> 00:48:23,596
Speaker 3: sense of smell are actually more likely to live longer,

997
00:48:23,796 --> 00:48:28,076
Speaker 3: they have better cognitive health, they have better mental health overall.

998
00:48:28,236 --> 00:48:30,916
Speaker 3: So having a good sense of smell is actually really

999
00:48:30,996 --> 00:48:34,436
Speaker 3: important for the quality of our life and the quantity

1000
00:48:34,476 --> 00:48:37,276
Speaker 3: of our life. So lifespan and health span are really

1001
00:48:37,276 --> 00:48:40,356
Speaker 3: connected to a good functioning sense of smell. And there's

1002
00:48:40,436 --> 00:48:43,196
Speaker 3: ways that at any point in life. And unfortunately, i

1003
00:48:43,276 --> 00:48:45,316
Speaker 3: like with our other senses, as we get older, our

1004
00:48:45,356 --> 00:48:48,236
Speaker 3: sense of smell tends to not be as strong and

1005
00:48:48,276 --> 00:48:51,836
Speaker 3: it's different for everybody, but throughout our life's actually really

1006
00:48:51,836 --> 00:48:54,756
Speaker 3: beneficial to be exercising our nose. And how to do

1007
00:48:54,796 --> 00:48:58,276
Speaker 3: this is just, you know, on the most simple, basic level,

1008
00:48:58,476 --> 00:49:01,956
Speaker 3: just consciously every day to make a point to sniff something,

1009
00:49:02,476 --> 00:49:04,836
Speaker 3: not just that like have it hit you, but literally,

1010
00:49:05,036 --> 00:49:07,716
Speaker 3: you know, open up their cabinet and sniff the peanut butter,

1011
00:49:07,876 --> 00:49:10,796
Speaker 3: or go and take that you know, shampoo cap off

1012
00:49:10,836 --> 00:49:13,476
Speaker 3: and like sniff it, or you know, find a couple

1013
00:49:13,516 --> 00:49:15,436
Speaker 3: of things like that. Now that's just the most simple

1014
00:49:15,436 --> 00:49:17,436
Speaker 3: thing to do or while you're walking your dog like

1015
00:49:17,476 --> 00:49:19,916
Speaker 3: I do. Like you walk by some flowers that smell nice,

1016
00:49:19,916 --> 00:49:23,116
Speaker 3: like stop and actually smell the roses. So beyond doing that,

1017
00:49:23,236 --> 00:49:26,036
Speaker 3: if you are actually struggling to get a stronger sense

1018
00:49:26,036 --> 00:49:27,916
Speaker 3: of smell, or if you've lost your sense of smell

1019
00:49:27,916 --> 00:49:30,276
Speaker 3: and want to do something to regain it, then you

1020
00:49:30,316 --> 00:49:33,636
Speaker 3: can do something more explicit called smell training, and that

1021
00:49:33,756 --> 00:49:37,156
Speaker 3: involves getting four smells that are actually in this case,

1022
00:49:37,196 --> 00:49:39,276
Speaker 3: we want familiar smells. We want smells we have a

1023
00:49:39,356 --> 00:49:41,836
Speaker 3: positive connection to from the past, and whether we can

1024
00:49:41,876 --> 00:49:44,636
Speaker 3: smell them now or not. What you want to do is,

1025
00:49:44,716 --> 00:49:46,596
Speaker 3: let's say one of them is peanut butter, so I

1026
00:49:46,636 --> 00:49:48,916
Speaker 3: think of peanut butter as well. I like the smell,

1027
00:49:48,956 --> 00:49:51,276
Speaker 3: but also after a workout is sort of like a

1028
00:49:51,396 --> 00:49:53,876
Speaker 3: go to scent. So I'm going to smell peanut butter.

1029
00:49:54,076 --> 00:49:55,756
Speaker 3: I'm going to open the jar, and I'm going to

1030
00:49:55,836 --> 00:49:59,556
Speaker 3: think about this is my post workout smell. Do it

1031
00:49:59,596 --> 00:50:01,596
Speaker 3: with another three others. So you want to have like

1032
00:50:01,636 --> 00:50:05,156
Speaker 3: four familiar smells. Do this at least two, if not three,

1033
00:50:05,156 --> 00:50:07,236
Speaker 3: times a day so you don't have to spend long

1034
00:50:07,276 --> 00:50:09,076
Speaker 3: with it. It does take a couple of minutes each time,

1035
00:50:09,156 --> 00:50:11,636
Speaker 3: but that's not that much of a time commitment, and

1036
00:50:12,076 --> 00:50:15,756
Speaker 3: over time, what you will see is that overall your

1037
00:50:15,796 --> 00:50:19,076
Speaker 3: sense of smell should improve. Now, for people who've really

1038
00:50:19,116 --> 00:50:21,516
Speaker 3: lost your sense of smell and they're doing this, one

1039
00:50:21,556 --> 00:50:24,156
Speaker 3: of the difficulties is the frustration that this is not

1040
00:50:24,196 --> 00:50:26,276
Speaker 3: an instantaneous like I did it for a week and

1041
00:50:26,356 --> 00:50:28,316
Speaker 3: now I can smell again. And often it can take

1042
00:50:28,476 --> 00:50:30,876
Speaker 3: quite a bit of time. It might not work at all,

1043
00:50:30,996 --> 00:50:34,356
Speaker 3: but basically, you know, give it three months if nothing

1044
00:50:34,436 --> 00:50:37,636
Speaker 3: is happening, switched to another set of four familiar smells

1045
00:50:37,676 --> 00:50:40,916
Speaker 3: that you like, and keep on trying. And depending upon

1046
00:50:41,076 --> 00:50:43,396
Speaker 3: why you have smell loss, it can actually be the

1047
00:50:43,436 --> 00:50:46,116
Speaker 3: case that this will really help regenerate it. Now. It's

1048
00:50:46,116 --> 00:50:48,836
Speaker 3: not an absolute and it depends on how long it's

1049
00:50:48,876 --> 00:50:50,996
Speaker 3: been since you've lost your sense of smell, how you

1050
00:50:51,076 --> 00:50:53,516
Speaker 3: lost your sense of smell. This is more likely to

1051
00:50:53,556 --> 00:50:56,596
Speaker 3: be effective in things like post viral smell lost like

1052
00:50:56,676 --> 00:50:59,596
Speaker 3: with COVID, than it is if you had traumatic brain injury,

1053
00:50:59,756 --> 00:51:01,476
Speaker 3: like you were in some kind of an accident and

1054
00:51:01,516 --> 00:51:03,276
Speaker 3: you lost your sense of smell that way, that can

1055
00:51:03,316 --> 00:51:05,836
Speaker 3: be more difficult to regain. And it's also best if

1056
00:51:05,836 --> 00:51:08,476
Speaker 3: this is within the first year of having lost it,

1057
00:51:08,556 --> 00:51:10,716
Speaker 3: rather than you start this ten years later. But in

1058
00:51:10,796 --> 00:51:13,996
Speaker 3: any case, no matter what, this is making your brain stronger.

1059
00:51:14,196 --> 00:51:17,476
Speaker 3: So even if you can't smell it, the act of

1060
00:51:17,756 --> 00:51:20,756
Speaker 3: active sniffing, paired with thinking about what that should be,

1061
00:51:20,916 --> 00:51:22,956
Speaker 3: is actually going to be good for your brain overall

1062
00:51:22,956 --> 00:51:24,396
Speaker 3: and good for your cognitive health.

1063
00:51:25,476 --> 00:51:27,636
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed this quick journey and to smell

1064
00:51:27,716 --> 00:51:30,996
Speaker 1: with my guest Rachel Hers, and particularly her description of

1065
00:51:31,076 --> 00:51:33,876
Speaker 1: scent and attraction. It nicely sets us up for our

1066
00:51:33,876 --> 00:51:37,076
Speaker 1: next season of shows, because this Valentine's Day we'll be

1067
00:51:37,116 --> 00:51:38,956
Speaker 1: looking at happiness and love.

1068
00:51:39,276 --> 00:51:42,876
Speaker 3: Oh I think on our second date, John said, you know,

1069
00:51:43,036 --> 00:51:46,236
Speaker 3: I was in another relationship, but I've told her I'm

1070
00:51:46,236 --> 00:51:48,436
Speaker 3: not going to see her anymore. And I immediately had

1071
00:51:48,436 --> 00:51:52,116
Speaker 3: a pianic tab. It was like, really already

1072
00:51:52,716 --> 00:51:54,916
Speaker 1: So make a date and listen again to the Happiness

1073
00:51:54,956 --> 00:51:56,876
Speaker 1: Lab with me, Doctor Laurie Santos