1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and this is Brite, and you're 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Today's episode is 3 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: kind of a bummer. Just to warn you in advance. 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: It's something that I got very angry and fired up 5 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: about as I was researching, and just got more and 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: more angry. Um. For many women for a very long time, 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: sprinkling talc powder or talcum powder or baby powder in 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: your underpants is a common and normal hygiene practice. Um. 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: There was a law student seen where a woman named 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Fox had been using baby powder and her underpants 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: for forty years since she was a teenager, and it 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: was as common as brushing her teeth or washing her face. UM. 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Fox later developed ovarian cancer, and her family after she died, 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: sued the company Johnson and Johnson and One because they 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: determined there might have been a link between her use 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: of baby powder in her underpants for many years and 17 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: her developing ovarian cancer. So today we're gonna be talking 18 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: through that lawsuit, talking through some of the science around 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: whether or not there actually is a link between using 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: talcum powder and your underpants and ovarian cancer, and why 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: this sort of exists in the first place. Why are 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: we all sprinkling powders on our underpants and an attempt 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: to make our body parts smell less like body parts exactly. 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: And I think what's so enraging about this lawsuit is 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: the evidence points to criminal negligence on the part of 26 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: Johnson and Johnson because they were aware of these linkages. 27 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: And even though the science isn't perfect, of course, but 28 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, the link between the use of talcum powder 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: or baby powder by women in their general area and 30 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: their underpants UM has been connected to cancer and ovarian 31 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: cancer in particular. Even knowing that connection, Johnson and Johnson 32 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: was actively pursuing campaigns that targeted minority women, targeted women 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: with messages of you know, you need this product, especially UM, 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: because the way that your body exists as it is 35 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: is not good enough. And that's really one of the 36 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: most horrifying concerning and enraging under occurrence to this whole 37 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: conversation is the widespread assumption that yeah, women and your 38 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: body and your vagina are not pure, are not clean 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: or disgusting, and require products and the way that they 40 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: are UM that's sort of discussed assumption is really enraging 41 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: to me. It's really enraging, but it's also so common. 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: I definitely grew up thinking that I was supposed to 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: wear pantyliners that smelled like flowers so that my vagina 44 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: did not smell like a vagina. I was definitely taught, 45 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: particularly as a black woman, that something about our bodies 46 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: was different and more repugnant and we had to mask that. 47 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: I grew up the same way that the women in 48 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: this lawsuit. I grew up thinking that sprinkling baby powder 49 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: and your underpants was good hygiene, right, sort of. What 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: broke my heart about this quote from the woman who 51 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: ultimately died of a varying cancer. Um, she says, I 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: was raised up on it, she said in a deposition, 53 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: they were there to help you stay fresh and clean. 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: We ladies have to take care of ourselves. And that quote, um, 55 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: this idea that taking care of yourself as a woman 56 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: means masking the normal smell of your your genitals, and 57 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: that's supposed to be taking care of yourself, when in 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: fact it seems as though that is what led to 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: her death of a varying cancer. It's awful, and we 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: see a lot of that in advertising around women's products, 61 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: don't we, right, Like this is to enhance your natural 62 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: beauty or whatever it might be. And we have to 63 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 1: remember that someone's making a profit off of that assumption. 64 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: Someone's making your profit off of the assumption, and they 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: have a financial vested interest in us thinking of our 66 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: own bodies as unclean cure in need of fixing. Vaginas 67 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: smell like vaginas. I don't smell like baby powder. They 68 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: don't smell like roses. They smell like a gain. It's 69 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: not like a tide scented thing. Okay, this is your body, yes, 70 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: And a normal healthy vagina might not smell like an 71 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: autumn rain, right, And it's different than I also related 72 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: it to perfumes at large, Like there's a reality that 73 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: deodorant serves as a good function for your body. If 74 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: that's you know what I mean, that's your thing. And 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: perfumes can be fun. But perfumes and deodorizers and of 76 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: chemicals that we're applying to our reproductive organs, that's not 77 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: just a nice pick me up. That can be a 78 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: chemical uh risk that women are taking. Definitely and her son, right, 79 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: Marvin salter Um, the son of the woman who was 80 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: at the center of this lawsuit, really put it perfectly, 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: because making the assumption that baby powder is safe shouldn't 82 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: be a hard thing to do. He said, quote, it 83 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: has to be safe. It's put on babies, It's been 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: around forever. Why haven't we heard about any ill effects? 85 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: Which is exactly what I thought, right, And I think 86 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: the assumption that something you pull off the shelf in 87 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: the baby section of your grocery store or in the 88 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: beauty aisle, and companies are actively saying that putting this 89 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: in your underpants is not a bad idea, it's natural 90 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: to assume that that must be true. Well, I think, 91 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: like a lot of folks, I was totally thinking the 92 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: same thing. They couldn't sell this product, they couldn't market 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: it for use by infants if it wasn't safe. But 94 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: here's what that's not actually true. Baby powder is considered 95 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: a cosmetic which does not need to be approved by 96 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: the FDA under the nineteen Food Drug and Cosmetic Act. 97 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: The law was actually laid out in a three document 98 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: and only two of those pages were devoted to the 99 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: safety of cosmetics. And another sort of wrinkle of that 100 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: is that the American Academy of Pediatrics actually doesn't even 101 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: recommend the use of baby powder in between diaper changes 102 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: on actual babies. They don't suggest that people use it 103 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: because babies can inhale it and it can cause damage 104 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: to their lungs, right, I mean, there was We'll get 105 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: into the science on this a little bit later, but 106 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: there were findings in the research that show these tiny 107 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: little particles of baby powder of talcum powder can embed 108 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: themselves in your body. Where do you think that's going. 109 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: This is stuff that can embed itself like a hard 110 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: fibrous thing in your body um when it should be there, 111 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: whether it's in your lungs or in your cervix or 112 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: in your ovaries. So it's just it's horrifying that knowing 113 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: that a the government is not there to protect women 114 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: on cosmetics. The government literally does not seem to care 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: about cosmetics, which can have tons of toxins in them. 116 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, that's an anomaly that's again part 117 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: of our American exceptionalism. Lots of other countries have forbidden 118 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: chemicals and their use in cosmetics and in women's um 119 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: pantiliners and tampons in other parts of the world that 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: are a okay to be flying off the shelves here 121 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: in the United states. Yeah, that is, you know, let 122 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: freedom ring die of lead poisoning because of your lipstick. Exactly. 123 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: Nothing that's freedom in America like the freedom to make 124 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: a profit off of chemicals that could potentially harm women. 125 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: But isn't that part of just letting your essence of 126 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: internal beauty shine through of enhancing your natural beauty. I mean, 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: it's worth it. If you go to an early grave 128 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: smelling like spring rain, right, maybe she's born in it, 129 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: or maybe it's a chemical chemical black Like, there's gonna 130 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: be some dark humor in this episode, y'all because it's 131 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: just so depressing. It's so depressing, and it's also just enraging. 132 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: It's so enraging. So just to level set for a 133 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: moment to get into the sort of nitty gritty of 134 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: of talcum powder. So, according to the American Cancer Society, 135 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: talcum powder is made from talc, a mineral made up 136 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: of mainly elements of magnesium, silicone, and oxygen. As a powder, 137 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: it absorbs moy shirt and helps cut down on friction, 138 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: making it useful for dry skin and preventing rashes. It's 139 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: commonly used in cosmetic products, which is baby powder and 140 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: adult body and facial powders, as well as a number 141 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: of other consumer products. Question on that, So men use 142 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: baby powder on their genitals? They do regularly? Am I 143 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: remembering that correctly? I remember. That's the thing. I remember 144 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: going to a music festival called Bonaru where all the 145 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: guys someone who brought up a thing of gold bond 146 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: powder that all the guys were using it on their crotches. Yeah, 147 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: that's a real thing, because we're we can't talk with 148 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: disgust about their bodies and we're not thinking, we don't 149 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: want to discuss your facial expression. It was memory because literally, 150 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: also Bonnary was this hot, sweaty festival and there was 151 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: a long discussion about ball chafing and ball sweat and 152 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: I was in this van full of guys. I just remember, 153 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: like in my mind, I was like, I'm in an 154 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: open field, I'm not here. No, in your mind, you 155 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: were like, I'm going to repurpose this information into a 156 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: podcast someday, because it's true, Like chafing is real, that's real. 157 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: Baby pattern is for Because there's not I mean, the 158 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: question becomes is this something that men should worry about too? 159 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, we didn't really come across that 160 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: one looking into this, But it's not like there are 161 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: orifices down there they could run into as well. But 162 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: do you think that that's a good question? Do you 163 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: think that men are taught that they're sweaty, you know, genitals? 164 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: But I taught myself are they taught the same way 165 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: that we're taught that that is unclean and gross and 166 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: repugnant and there's nothing worse than than being someone that 167 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: has smelly genitals? I feel like women are taught that 168 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: there's nothing more awful as a woman than being smelled. 169 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Well, I think having a period, 170 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: having a mental cycle definitely adds to that anxiety. And 171 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: I would say I think it probably varies household to 172 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: household dramatically. But yeah, there's a whole consumer angle to 173 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: products that can make women feel like the way they 174 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: their bodies naturally smell are bad and here's a product 175 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: that's a solution to buy. Men don't get the hitting 176 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: that message over their head. I think like in the 177 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: same way that women too. Yeah, And I think I've 178 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: mentioned this in the episode we did around veganism. There 179 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: was this really awful trend going around social media with 180 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: young people called the Clean Panty Challenge, and it was 181 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: challenging young women to take pictures of the insides of 182 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: their panties to prove that they were unsullied and if 183 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: that meant they were clean or better the other women 184 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: who at the bottom of their the lining of their 185 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: panties was you know, blemished by some sort of liquid 186 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: or discharge. But again, it's normal for vaginas to have discharge. 187 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: So you're advocating for shaming people who have normal, healthy, 188 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: functioning body part. And something to note is if you 189 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: are a woman who is anxious or maybe your body 190 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: is changing down there and there are things happening that 191 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: seem unusual, like you're having a different discharge, that's that 192 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: does not look like a nor normal day in your panties. 193 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: You know, if there's a smell that doesn't seem right, 194 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: talk to your doctor. Don't mask it with some cheap 195 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: products you can buy off the shelves that the FDA 196 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: does not approve of or care about approving. Um. You know, 197 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: talk to your doctor and find out what is real 198 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: and don't assume that, oh, yeah, I just have you know, 199 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: something really like weird happening downstairs. That's a product can 200 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: solve for me. I think if there is something weird 201 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: happening um with your body, have a professional take a look, 202 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: or get to a minute clinic or whatever it might be. 203 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: Don't assume that this is like a normal part of 204 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: being a woman that needs to be solved. I have 205 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: a really gross story that might be tm I for 206 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: our listeners. I was wondering what share it? But then 207 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: people are going to write it and say, why did 208 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: you share that disgusting story? But it does end with 209 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: me going to a doctor, so I'm gonna say it. Um. 210 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: I had a bad yeast infection. And at the time, 211 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: this is when I was trying to go vie in. 212 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: At the time, I was on this kick of wellness 213 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: and cleanliness. I had gotten into like um, like drinking um. Yeah. 214 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: I was sort of like really on that vibe for 215 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: a hot minute. So when I had a yeast infection, 216 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: I knew it was a yeast infection. I saw that 217 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: using UM. And I don't know if this is accurate 218 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: or not, so who knows, don't I read someplace that 219 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: using unsweetened Plaine yogurt, dipping it into a dipping a 220 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: tampa in twitt and inserting it into yourself could help 221 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: cure a yeast infection, and I thought, oh great, so 222 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: I did that. The next day it had gotten worse. 223 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: So then I did some more researching and it said, oh, 224 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: putting an unpeeled piece of garlic in your vagina and 225 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: sleeping with it can help. That it was worse. So 226 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: then I went to the storm was like, it's time 227 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: for chemicals. I bought monist that which apparently a lot 228 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: of doctors don't recommend that you use those, like those 229 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: monastat creams that are supposed to cure a yeast infection 230 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: in one day. That can be really bad for your vagina, 231 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: such powerful cream. So then I used that. At this point, 232 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: I was like, it's time to get to a doctor. 233 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: When I went to the guy in ecologist, she was like, 234 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: she looked at she looked inside, and she said, well, 235 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: there's so much going on here. You put so many 236 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: things into your bega. I'm glad you finally talked about 237 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: professional And she was like, I've left to your own devices, Like, 238 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: what would you tried next? It was the most embarrassing thing. 239 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: She was like, well, I'm glad that you stopped putting 240 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: things into your progina and just went to the doctor. 241 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about I'm sorry if that was Tom. 242 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: I Well, first of all, these directions are the word 243 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: and that's a good example of a discharge that doesn't 244 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: feel same or smell normal. But here's the thing, it's 245 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: important to also remember that like, that's a good example 246 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: of what needs medical attention on occasion. Um, And just 247 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: how bad the advice of online gurus can be, especially 248 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: in the wellness phase. As we come back to you 249 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: again and again, Um, there's nothing like impure or you know, 250 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: purifying and detoxifying your he doesn't always jive with actual 251 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: medical advice. UM, but I get, I get what your 252 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: intent was, which was to avoid having to go to 253 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: a doctor, which is annoying and seemingly unnecessary, and having 254 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: to get prescription um antibiotics all the time isn't a 255 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: fun thing to do either, So it makes sense to 256 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: try to figure out your own solution. But just knowing 257 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: what your body's normal is and that normal might not 258 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: be the same as someone else as normal, like can 259 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: be really helpful and just gaining clarity on Okay, let's 260 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: get to know our vaginas on today's podcast, because I 261 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: think it's Emily Agoski who writes in her book come 262 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: as you are, Yes, you are normal, over and over 263 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: and over again. Everyone's parts down there are just arranged 264 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: a little differently. Everybody's chemical sort of reaction or or 265 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: um like pH situation down there is different. Um. But 266 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: knowing what's normal for you and really listening to your 267 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: body when it's asking for help is important. Yeah, my 268 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: body was. That was a cry for help, um or 269 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: just less tahiny you're getting ready for like if you 270 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: added a little I know a certain point. I think 271 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: the kind of college just made a joke that, oh, 272 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: if you add a little add a little ball vinigarrette, 273 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: you gotta have a real salad down there, got the garlic, 274 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: the yogurt. I'm sorry, I just had I had like 275 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: a flap for lunch, all right, can I I'm taking 276 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: I've taken a breath, y'all. So as you can sort 277 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: of tell, there is a lot of interesting burly information 278 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: about vaginas and what to put in them not to 279 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: put in them out there, as as my story I 280 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: think makes clear, we're gonna talk about some of that 281 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: data and why it's actually really confusing to know whether 282 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: or not things like powder or actually safe for our vaginas. 283 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: After a quick break and a message from our sponsor, 284 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: and we're back. So I mentioned before that some of 285 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: the data around talcum powder, whether or not it's safe, 286 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: whether or not it costs ovarian cancer is murky. Um. 287 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna get into why that is, um, but you 288 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: should know that this is something folks have been studying 289 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: for a long time. Studies trying to find a link 290 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: between ovarian cancer and talc powder have been happening four decades. 291 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: Forty five years ago, British researchers analyzed thirteen ovarian tumors 292 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: and found talk particles quote deeply embedded in ten. The study, 293 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: published in nineteen seventy one, was the first to raise 294 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: the possibility that talk powder could pose a risk. In 295 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: a study in the Journal of Cancer by Daniel Kramer, 296 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: an epidemiologist at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, showed 297 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: the first statistical link between general talc use and ovarian cancer. 298 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: And to me, that's all the evidence I need. I'm 299 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: I know that you know, we want to be scientific 300 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: around here, and I know that replication is important, but 301 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: if they're looking at ovarian tumors and they find talk 302 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: particles embedded in there. I mean, where else are they 303 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: going to go? That's enough evidence for me that having 304 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: those particles floating around in your ovaries cannot be good 305 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: for them. Well, that's exactly it is that. Of course 306 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: it's important to look at data, look at the overwhelming data. 307 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where I think, why 308 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: risk it, Why risk getting ovarian cancer? If there might 309 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: be a link. And so I'm not saying that I'm 310 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: a scientist and that there is definitely a link. I'm 311 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: saying that enough people in the medical and scientific community 312 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: have raised the alarm, and I think that's that's reason 313 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: enough to sort of look twice how we're using this 314 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: product exactly. And there have been a lot more recent 315 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: studies linking ovarian cancer to the use of TALC powder 316 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: um In fact, the one we really want to dive 317 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: into is from the University of Virginia by Joellen Schildkraut, 318 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: an epidemiologist who let us study where her team interviewed 319 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: five four black women with ovarian cancer and seven hundred 320 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: forty five black women without the disease. What they found 321 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: is that nearly sixty three percent of the women with 322 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: ovarian cancer and fifty of the healthy ones, uh did 323 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: dust themselves with powder with baby powder. Um. And so 324 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: those numbers are concerning on two fronts to me, Bridge, 325 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: tell me, what do you think, because one majority of 326 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: black women report using baby powder to sort of keep 327 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: themselves fresh, dry, whatever down the air. Yeah, absolutely, the 328 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: data definitely shows that black women are using baby powder 329 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: in that way much more often than their white counterparts. Yeah. 330 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: And then the second, of course, is the correlation here, 331 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: although you know, you tell me what's statistically significant, But she, 332 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: the researcher um found it very concerning that sixty three 333 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: percent of those with ovarian cancer reported using the powder 334 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: compared to the control group without ovarian cancer had a 335 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: usage rate at fift One possible explanation for why this 336 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: study showed such a seemingly such a correlation between the 337 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: two is that she studied black women in particular, so 338 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: other studies did not necessarily use uh, you know, black women. 339 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Her study pretty much focused on Black women, their use 340 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: of the the product and ovarian cancer. UM. So the 341 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: American Cancer Society, they acknowledge that the link between the two, 342 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: They kind of it's it's a little bit complicated. Yeah, 343 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: I mean black women are not studied enough like women 344 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: writ large in the scientific community. Black women in particular 345 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: are not um included in these clinical trials and in 346 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: medical studies UM as often as their white counterparts, which 347 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: is a big problem. And as we've discussed many times 348 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: on the show, and I love hearing from all of 349 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: our medical professionals who are listening, who tweet at us 350 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: and tell us more about UM other kinds of diseases 351 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: that present differently amongst women UM or have a specific 352 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: uh sort of population significance for women of color, and 353 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: how often those things go untreated because of the lack 354 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: of funding and research available for different populations. Totally, totally UM. 355 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: And really that's just another one of many reasons why 356 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: we should be studying different kinds of bodies, different races, UM, 357 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: different ethnicities, different folks along the gender spectrum. We should 358 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: be studying different kinds of bodies so we can get 359 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: a better understanding of how different things impact different bodies. 360 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: I mean, our our world is diverse, and the things 361 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: that inflict our bodies are also diverse, and we need 362 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: to have a better, more thorough understanding of how these 363 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, these threats impact different kinds of bodies. I 364 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: wonder if there's any medical schools who are doing like, 365 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: who are bringing intersectionality into the medical education component, because 366 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: I would love to shout them out, you know what 367 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean. I would love to find out what medical 368 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: schools are teaching doctors, um to and clinical researchers to 369 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: have an intersect and all ones totally. So. According to 370 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: the American Cancer Society, lab studies linking non as best 371 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: as talk with cancer are not conclusive. Studies that expose 372 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: lab animals to asbest as free talk in various ways 373 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: have had mixed results, with some showing tumor formation and 374 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: others not finding any. So that's another reason why UM 375 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: just specifically, this data is not conclusive. They also look 376 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: at studies where they rely on folks to self report 377 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: their use of things like baby powder, and those are 378 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: not always super reliable because maybe you misremember, maybe you 379 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: you're not you know, you don't actually know how much 380 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: you're using when you're using it. You're kind of getting 381 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: the reporting wrong. That's another reason why I think the 382 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: American Cancer Society is slow to say this, there's a 383 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: definite link. So right now, the International Agency for Research 384 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: on Cancer classifies general use of talk in a kind 385 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: of a vague way. They say, it's quote possibly carcinogenic, 386 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: but again, is that something you want to gamble with? 387 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: And just um clarify, when we talk about non asbestos 388 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: talcum powder, why do we even make that differentiation? Because 389 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: talcum powder that contains asbestos is generally understood to be 390 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: a carcinogenic, but no talc powder is sold in the 391 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: United States since nineteen seventy are supposed to have asbestos 392 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: in them? Yes, before the nineteen seventies, there was asbestos 393 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: in baby powder. Like what if that doesn't tell us anything? 394 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: It tells us Like that just goes to show you 395 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: how the f d A can be slow to figure 396 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: out what's slowly killing us. Definitely, And again, I mean 397 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: if I told the idea that it's being labeled as 398 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: possibly carcinogenic. If I told you something was if I 399 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: made you a meal and I said it's possibly deadly, 400 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: what do you eat it? You eat it with gusto? 401 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: Probably not right. And that's how strong this cultural pressure 402 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: is for women to feel gross about their own vaginas. 403 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: That's really how powerful that underlying assumption that the way 404 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: your vagina is or smell alls is you know, repulsive 405 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: and unacceptable. And that is a societally developed cultural um 406 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: assumption or cultural pressure that's put on women that just 407 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: isn't levied against men in the same exact kind of way. Totally, totally, 408 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: even even though we can all agree that like I 409 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I don't want to say like 410 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: men's genitals aren't disgusting, you know what I mean? Or 411 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: I understand the repulse response or the Emily and A 412 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: Gosgee calls it the disgusted response in her book about 413 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: female sexuality. There is this accepted phenomenon that vaginas are gross, 414 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: that little girls even internalized in their teen years to 415 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: think that it's disgusting, and that if you feel gross 416 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: about a part of your own body, especially one that 417 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: is so key to pleasure in your life, that's gonna 418 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: inhibit your ability to actually have a healthy, productive, not productive, 419 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: but a hell the pleasurable sex life. Right, and one 420 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: of the scholars will talk more about later on in 421 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: the show actually gets this so right when she says, 422 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: if we teach women to be ashamed of their normal, 423 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: healthy vaginas, how are how are they supposed to feel 424 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: when if they have a problem with their vagina and 425 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: they already teach them that their health, the way their 426 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: vagina functions normally is something to be ashamed of. How 427 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: that's a terrible starting point. Absolutely so. Even though the 428 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: link between talc and ovarian cancer in the scientific community 429 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: may not be clear, there's still really vocal scientists and 430 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: researchers and doctors who are making a lot of noise 431 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: about this this risk. The researcher in charge of the 432 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: study from UVA that we were just talking about says, 433 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: I was acidic until these recent studies came out. As 434 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: you look across all these studies, I would say, why 435 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: use it? It's an avoidable risk for ovarian cancer. And 436 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: I think that's what it comes down to for me, 437 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: Why why use it? And others in the scientific community 438 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: actually go a lot further. Dr Daniel Kramer from bringing 439 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: in Women's Hospital up in Boston when he first reported 440 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: on this link between genital talc use and ovarian cancer 441 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: in two Since then, he's been calling for warning labels 442 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: like these these things should be disclaimers explicitly put on 443 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: talcum powder bottles, and this is not happening. And he's 444 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: been advocating for that ever since. Yeah, there was actually 445 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: a pretty recent editorial in a journal by Dr Stephen 446 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: Nat of the Women's College Research Institute in Toronto where 447 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: he said, in the interests of public health, I believe 448 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: we should caution women against using genital talcum powder UM. 449 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: He was not involved in the UVA study, but he 450 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: did look at the look at the results and said 451 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: it's disingenuous to state that there is no evidence that 452 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: talcs associated with ovarian cancer exactly. So that and that's 453 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: part of the reason I think that UM lawsuit came 454 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: down on the side of the claimant because there is 455 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: what is it like, there's not enough evidence to prove 456 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt that Johnson and Johnson didn't know 457 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: about these risks and that the risks aren't real. This 458 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: is well beyond the reasonable doubt territory, right. And actually 459 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: you've seen cases earlier where UM lawsuits around talk pattern 460 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: yousevarian cancer were thrown out precisely because judges determined there 461 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: is it enough evidence, right exactly. And now I think 462 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: we've we've gone far beyond that point. There's well more 463 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: than enough evidence to say, hey, don't have your mother, sister, daughter, grandmother. 464 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: You know, nieces used this stuff in there in their genitals, 465 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: and it's not something we should be advocating for patients 466 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: or our children or our loved ones to be doing. 467 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: I think you're right, and so was Johnson and Johnson. 468 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: I think they were well beyond the point of a 469 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Let's talk a little bit more about that 470 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: when we come back from a quick break, and we're 471 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: back and I really just have to shout out Bloomberg here, 472 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: because they're reporting on Johnson and Johnson really for me, 473 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: blew the lid off. They ended up publishing in an 474 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: internal Johnson and Johnson memo that seems to indicate the 475 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: company was pretty much aware of the potential links for 476 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: their product to be linked towards ovarian cancer. So the 477 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: title of the memo is major Opportunities and Major Obstacles, 478 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: which I feel like, I mean, come on, what a 479 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: title for a memo. Not the kind of memo you 480 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: would want to see leaked in a deposition of course. Um. 481 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: In this memo they acknowledged quote negative publicity from the 482 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: health community on TALC, including inhalation dust, negative doctor endorsement, 483 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: and cancer linkage. I like how they just throw that 484 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: in there as like a casual mention of cancer linkage 485 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: in a marketing memo on you know what, what people 486 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: should we get to endorse our products? And what might 487 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: you know what micro targeting strategies should we moved forward with? 488 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, there's a cancer link by 489 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: who's gonna be our spokesperson exactly which they go on 490 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: to talk about for targeting black and Latino women in particular. 491 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: Totally so, even understanding that there might be this cause 492 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: for concern about cancer linkage, that did not stop Johnson 493 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: and Johnson from targeting black and Hispanic women to account 494 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: for slumping sales. Um The memo used in court that 495 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: we just read from included a recommendation to quote investigate 496 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: ethnic African American and Hispanic opportunities to grow the franchise, 497 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: noting that these women accounted for a high proportion of 498 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: their sales. They've proposed going on to team up with 499 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: Ebony magazine suggesting promotions in churches, salons, and barbershops. And 500 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: while they're at it, maybe we can get a you know, 501 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: a perfect spokesperson like Patti LaBelle or a Wretha Franklin 502 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: as celebrity endorser. So important to note that neither of 503 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: those iconic powerhouse divas did this. Either of them went 504 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: on to be spokespeople for this campaign. So shout out 505 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: to Patti Labella Franklin. Um, I'm gonna say, Friends of 506 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: the Show, Yeah, let's do it. We're tight, you know. 507 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: I also think it's important to note that, at least 508 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: when I was growing up, brands like Johnson and Johnson's 509 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: baby Powder and Shower to Shower which used to be 510 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: owned by Onunson and Johnson for a while. Um, those 511 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: are legacy brands in a black communities. And I think 512 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: this idea that we were being targeted for something that 513 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: could make us sick and kill us is in raging, 514 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: Like the idea that this company would recognize that black 515 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: women are feeling more anxious about their bodies than their 516 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: white counterparts. They spend more money on products to deal 517 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: with you know, body odor and things like that cosmetics. Um, 518 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the fact that these companies seized on that and really 519 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: sort of I would say, preyed on us, target us 520 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: in rage of me. Absolutely, and in fact, black women 521 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: have been found to spend about four times as much 522 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: as white women when it comes to expenses on hair, 523 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: and twice as many black women douche and deodorize when 524 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: you know, downstairs, when compared to their white counterparts, according 525 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: to research from gw University, and so looking at those 526 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: humongous disparities, part of me wants to take the economic 527 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: justice route and say, these are already women who are 528 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: underpaid chronically talk about a lack of equal pay for 529 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: women of color, and then, to make matters worse, we 530 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: see these huge disparities based on outdated, untrue, unfair stereotypes 531 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: around body cleanliness that make these women feel especially preyed 532 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: upon and liable to then feel pressured to buy products 533 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: that deodorize their body. And it's been well established that douching, 534 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: by the way, let's just add this in here, is 535 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: not exactly a good thing for you, exactly. I mean, 536 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: going back to that study im gw UM, those researchers 537 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: found that like baby powder, over the counterproducts like douches, 538 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: national deodorizers and things like that contain ingredients um that 539 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: are more likely to be linked to cancer, among other 540 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: health risks not listed on the labels. So basically, they're 541 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: being pressured because of unfair, racist, untrue stereotypes about their 542 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: bodies to consume things that are actually making them very sick, exactly. 543 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: And there was a really compelling article about um those 544 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: gross stereotypes and how rooted in our history in the 545 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: United States. They are called an odor of racism vaginal 546 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: deodorance in African American Beauty, Culture and Advertising from the 547 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: Journal of Advertising, Society and Review by Michelle Ferranti. In 548 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: that article, she writes, quote, for many recently emancipated African Americans, 549 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: a clean and odor free body signified personal progress and 550 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: enterprise and the hope for racial assimilation. And then she 551 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: goes on to point out that the first documented reference 552 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: to douching comes in an eighteen o three medical manual 553 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: for the treatment of West Indian slaves that lists excessive 554 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: national discharge as a common complaint and prescribes twice daily douching, 555 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: which we know is bad for you. This is the 556 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: most I think horrifying part of that entire article is like, 557 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: this comes from a manual on how to treat human 558 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: beings back at a time when these human beings were 559 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: treated like livestock. And oh, by the way, even at 560 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: that point, we can you know, stereotype how these women's 561 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: bodies were naturally functioning as somehow impure or bad, which, 562 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: by the way, it goes into the entire racist undercurrent 563 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: here that's trying to dehumanize these women to begin with totally, 564 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: and I think that is exactly it. It's this idea 565 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: that is so pervasive that it's been with us since, 566 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, since it's been it's been ingrained in the 567 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: fabric of America that if you were a freed slave 568 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: and you wanted to signal to others that you were, 569 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, taking good care of yourself and that you 570 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: were ready for you know, it's it's so sad. Even 571 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: just saying this out loud, it makes it breaks my 572 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: heart because I can imagine these people wanting to signal 573 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: to those around them that they were deserving a full rights, 574 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: a full personhood, and going out of their way to 575 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: signal to others like hey, I keep my body clean, 576 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: I smell great, blah blah blah, that that is a 577 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: way of signaling that we are deserving of something that 578 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: should just be born with you. You should just be 579 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: born with full personhood and the full rights that you 580 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: get with citizenship. And they were basedically making themselves sick 581 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: to prove something that should have just been innate with 582 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: being humans. And that's like what comes from historical institutions 583 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: like slavery that are founded on the dehumanization of human 584 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: beings exactly. And for those of us who are feeling 585 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: squeamish about this in in light of the country that 586 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: we live in and and it's it's hard to justify 587 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: I get it. It's hard to justify and reconcile patriotism 588 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: with these with the fact that our country was founded 589 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: with the institution of slavery behind it. But here's a 590 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: quote to chew on for a second from a founding 591 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: father you might have heard of, Thomas Jefferson. Okay. Thomas 592 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: Jefferson is on the record as having said that black 593 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: women have a quote strong and very disagreeable odor. Okay. 594 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: So this this all sort of comes back to this 595 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: idea that there's this misogynist twist to racism from the 596 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: founding of our country on forward that not only posits 597 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: this idea, uh, this racist idea that blacks Reek and 598 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: as Omissa Kay Natasha Tinsley right, she's a professor of 599 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: African and African diaspora studies at the University of Texas 600 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: in Austin. She writes in an article for Time that, quote, 601 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: if racism posits that blacks reek, and misogyny teaches us 602 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: that vaginas are rank, how difficult does it become for 603 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: black women to love the scent of our healthy vaginas? 604 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: I think she hits the nail right on the head, 605 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: I mean, and that's what infuriates me so much about 606 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: this is that I see that companies like Johnson and 607 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: Johnson are using that anxiety that Black women are ingrained with, 608 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: that that that's rooted in racism and slavery and all 609 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: this awful stuff to sell us products that might kill us, 610 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: that lines their pockets exactly exactly. And she goes on 611 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: in that article to say, Johnson and Johnson and other 612 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: companies are ready to profit from these myths of the 613 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: excessive black china. They're willing to capitalize on our internalized 614 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: misogynour even if we die in the process. For decades, 615 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: companies including Johnson and Johnson continued marketing to encourage Black 616 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: women to spend money on talk powder, which could cause 617 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: cancer and our reproductive organs, even as they promised to 618 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: quote freshen them because the buyers were women. They were 619 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: the advertiser's targets. Because they were women, they were vulnerable 620 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: to the side effects that the company's never even exposed. Disgusting. 621 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: It's disgusting, and it's infuriating. And I think being told 622 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: to have this anxiety internalized about our own bodies and 623 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: then using that anxiety against us to line your pockets 624 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: and we get killed in the process. I can't even 625 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: get my head around it. It just does not get 626 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: worse than that. And you know, some jerk got promoted 627 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: and got a corner office for the winning marketing strategy 628 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: that got more black women to buy this stuff. Definitely 629 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: just what happens. And I would venture to guess it 630 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: wasn't a black woman kidding, of course not, of course not. 631 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: So it's just it is. It is. It's everything that 632 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: I hate it about. Racism meets misogyny meets capitalism in 633 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: the most disgusting way. It is. It is. And I 634 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: think some of you out there might be thinking, well, 635 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: why is it so bad to for a company to, 636 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, know, their based audience, if their based audiences 637 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: black women, isn't it respectful to you know, advertise that 638 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: that specific audience, if they're buying it, why not advertise 639 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: to that? Exactly right, I could, I could actually see 640 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: people making that argument. But as Robin Means, Coleman, a 641 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: professor of Communication studies and African American Studies at University 642 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: of Michigan, says, we actually do want that, but we 643 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: do not want companies to market potentially carcinergetic products to us. 644 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: And so I think as as women, as women of color, 645 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: we do want companies to market to us, but that 646 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: should not include marketing products to us that might get 647 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: us killed. It's poison, and that's where the criminal negligence 648 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: came in. That's where the court's ruled that knowing of 649 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: this potential risk and ignoring that, not alerting clients to that, 650 00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: not alerting the public to that, and aggressively targeting communities 651 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: of color is what put Johnson and Johnson in the 652 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: hot seat totally. So when the courts did rule on 653 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: this case, a verdict which was decided by I attended 654 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: to vote, included ten million in compensatory damages and another 655 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: sixty two million in punitive damages, way more than the 656 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: attorneys were even asking for. But the court sent a 657 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: very clear message to companies like Johnson and Johnson that 658 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: this behavior was negligent and worth punishment for. And at 659 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: that point Salter, the son of the then deceased woman 660 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: who had lost her life to ovarian cancer, bowed his 661 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: head and wept in court, you know. And it's like, 662 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: of course, that's great. Those millions are fine, but nothing 663 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: will bring your mother back. I'm sure he would much 664 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: rather have his mom back that. Um. What I want 665 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: to just drive home about this whole situation is that 666 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: in the end, we all need to be more comfortable 667 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: with our bodies, particularly women of color. I think that 668 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge that, you know, vaginas are not 669 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: supposed to smell like baby powder. They're not supposed to 670 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 1: smell like an autumn rain. They're supposed to smell like vaginas. 671 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: And I think, going back to that time article that 672 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 1: um Tinsley wrote, why do black women work so hard 673 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: to keep our vaginas from smelling like we ever bleed orgasm, 674 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: sweat or eat catfish? And we do those things and 675 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 1: our our bodies, because they are bodies that function normally, 676 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: are going to reflect them in odor. I think there 677 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: is a totally understandable response from women who feel uncomfortable 678 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: with vaginal odor, right, Like, that is the thing that 679 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: people are uncomfortable with. I think it's worth asking you 680 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: why you're uncomfortable with that. If that's your experience, it's 681 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: worth talking to your doctor about it and finding out. 682 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: You know, we have a perception of what is normal 683 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: that is not always granted in truth. We have a 684 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: message that's marketed to women about what the normal, perfect 685 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: body should look and smell like that we know is 686 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: not always close to what we reality would actually have 687 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: to say about that, or what a medical professional would 688 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: have to say about it. So, if you're ever feeling 689 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: insecure about your body odor, talk to a professional, talk 690 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: to a medical professional, and know that that insecurity might 691 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: be you wrestling with these internalized messages that are put 692 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: in place in our media to actually drive a profit 693 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: home for somebody. I mean, that's part of the trip 694 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: of living in a capitalist, patriarchal, ft up society that 695 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: we are all unpacking this stuff all the time we 696 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: internalized them. I definitely have internalized some messed up stuff 697 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: about my own body, just based on the messages I've 698 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: gotten since childhood. Anybody would I think it's it's fair. 699 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: That is a fair outcome. And I think it's about 700 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: not getting caught up in it and stopping and taking 701 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: a beat and saying, yeah, why do I feel that 702 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: way about my body? Why am I having this reaction? 703 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: Um and unpacking it a little bit? And where did 704 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: I learn to feel disgusted about my own body? And 705 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: when did you learn? I think the messages get passed 706 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: down from parent to child in and think about what 707 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: what you know? Are you having a repulse response, like 708 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: are you having a disgusted response to a part of 709 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,919 Speaker 1: your body? And if you're doing that vocally in front 710 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: of other people, including in front of impressionable young ones, 711 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: like those are the messages that young ones around you 712 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: are going to grow up thinking that this is normal 713 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: to feel grossed out about a part of my body. 714 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: And I would argue that that is a shame creating experience. 715 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: It definitely is. And again, my mom is a medical 716 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: professional and she definitely I definitely remember her putting powder 717 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: in her underpants. I hope to god she's not doing 718 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: it now, and if she is, I have to stop her. 719 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: I think this is the moment, like, if you are 720 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: listening to this episode, and you are using talc powder 721 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: in your underpants, or your sister is, maybe your grandma, 722 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: that's a little bit old school. Your nana is doing it, 723 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: you're whoever in your life is doing it. Make sure 724 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,479 Speaker 1: they know that there are risks there. And even though 725 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: I know, I know, we have not, they have not 726 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: made the scientific link here. Is it worth it? Is 727 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: it worth having something that the American Cancer Society says 728 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: is quote possibly carcinergetic. Is it worth having that in 729 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: such an intimate area? And I think the answer is no. 730 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: And if you're nana, sister, friend, whoever really really really 731 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 1: needs to have powder in their underpants to feel clean, 732 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,399 Speaker 1: what can they do? Well? The good news is there 733 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 1: is an alternative that won't give you cancer, uh and 734 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: that is actually sold on the shelves right around the 735 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: same section. So if you are looking at a powder 736 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: that's safer for that kind of use, um, know that 737 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: you can find corn starch based powders. And there is 738 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: no study showing that corn starch poses any of those 739 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: potential risks the American Cancer Society has been suggesting about 740 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: baby powder. So for women who are looking for an alternative, 741 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: know that some of Johnson and Johnson's competitors provide powders 742 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: that that are really made of corn starch only, So 743 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: do your due diligence, do your search, find out what 744 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: is you know actually medically safe before putting it in 745 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: anywhere near or downstairs and um, corn starch based powders 746 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: are a good place to start if that's if that's 747 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: your jam, So Svendy listeners, we want to hear from you. 748 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: What what came up for you during this episode? Have 749 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: you used baby powder yourself to feel more comfortable with 750 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: the way that your body naturally exists? And if so, 751 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: what are some of the ways that you have grown 752 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: up with the messages that we receive on those fronts 753 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: and how how have you internalized or overcome some of 754 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: these negative impressions. We'd love to hear from you, But ye, 755 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: where can they hit us up? They can hit us 756 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: up on Instagram at stuff mom Ever Told You, on 757 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always on email 758 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: old fashioned style at mom stuff at how stuff works 759 00:42:52,440 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: dot com.