1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: and today on the show we are getting Guy and 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: YU can see we are talking about animal immune systems 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: now as we hopefully exit the cold and flu season. 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you have had some recent 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 1: experience with your immune system, and despite how unpleasant it is, 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 1: it is also really fascinating. So today is a special 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: episode because I have a guest who is a naturalist, 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: a teacher, and an author whose recent book, Sick is 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: about amazing stories of the animal immune system. It would 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: be a book that if I had got my hands 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: on this book when I was a kid, it would 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: be like my personal Bible. Is it is really fun 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: even for adults. Welcome Heather Montgomery. 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm so excited to be here and talk to 17 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: folks who are just as excited as I am to 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: learn from the animal world. It's so amazing what's out there. 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: If we open our eyes and start asking questions. Wow, 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: I just get carried away with it. 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: I feel like we're very much kindred spirits. Because I 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: love the grossness of biology Obviously, I do love a 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: beautiful butterfly. I love a beautiful bird, but I think 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: I also enjoy appreciating just the you know, the poop 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: of nature. It's so interesting and it's I mean, it's 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: not only a great way to I think teach kids 27 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: about it, because like, you know, you got to lean 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: in a little bit to like the gross stuff to 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: get kids interested. But honestly, I also believe that is 30 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: true of adults. Like we may not like to admit it, 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: but I certainly have never outgrown learning stuff about poop 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: and fighting. It both kind of funny and really interesting. 33 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: Right, isn't that funny that happens? Like when we grow up, 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: we're supposed to not be interested in the things that 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: we're innately interested in. I'm not sure why why, but 36 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: it's like we're always attracted and repelled at the same 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: time by these things, and those are the things that 38 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: fascinate me. I'm kind of curious as to why people 39 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: are so interested in the yanky stuff, but we are. Yeah, 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: it's really cool. 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: It is really interesting because it makes some sense that 42 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: we are repelled by poop, because I mean, in some 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: ways it's very practical, right, Poop can spread parasites, can 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: spread disease. But it's so it's good that we're not, 45 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, that we grow out of the phase of 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: playing in our own poop. However, it is still really interesting. 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: I think that we are drawn to kind of like 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, when you're on a hike and you see 49 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: some animal dung and you see there's stuff poking out 50 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: of it. I think people would be lying if, like 51 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: they wouldn't admit that that's a little interesting, and you're 52 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: kind of like, Okay, I do kind of want to 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: poke that with a stick and find out what's going 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: on in there. It's both gross for good reason, but 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: it's also really interesting exactly. 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: That's actually what led me to write a whole book 57 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: about poop, a different book, you know, it was a 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: different book, yes, but it was like the surprising side, 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 2: right that we when we look at this stuff that's 60 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: so gross, what we can actually learn about the world, 61 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: whether it's animals, you know, or the rest of the world. 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: All of the kind of big questions that come out 63 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: of scat. 64 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean it's it's a whole thing 65 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: like in in research. It's so such an important actual 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: kind of like research method is collecting and studying animal poop, 67 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: which sounds you know, it sounds like not a fun job, 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: but then when you think about it, like that is 69 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: kind of cool because you get to be out in nature, 70 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: you collect a bunch of dung, and then you bring 71 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: it back for analysis. But there is so there is 72 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: one poop story I want uh to talk about a 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: little bit. It's in your book. Uh. It's I think 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: one of the most endearingly gross stories about poop. 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: Uh. 76 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: It is about puppy poop and the mother's response to 77 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: puppy poop. And it's it's really cute but also horrifyingly disgusting, 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: and I don't it's one of those things where it's 79 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: like perfectly combining cuteness with grossness exactly right. 80 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: So, if you're a mom and you've got a whole 81 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: litter of puppies and a you know together, what are 82 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: they going to do a lot of is boop? Right, 83 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: and that's awesome. You've got to get rid of this stuff. 84 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: Plus what if there's parasites in it, which they're likely 85 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: are you know, if you're if you're not a pet 86 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: and taken care of, and so how do you deal 87 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: with that because the puppy's immune system can't deal with 88 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 2: it at all. So mom sacrifices and she laps it up. 89 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: She carries it away from her babies through her own 90 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: digestive system, which is atrocious but not really because her 91 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: immune systems better handle these kinds of parasites. Plus, she 92 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: basically hauls away and she can't pick it up with 93 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: her hands, right, so she basically hauls away through her 94 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: system and deposits it elsewhere. And if she deposits it elsewhere, 95 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: soon enough, the eggs haven't hatched for say, the round one, 96 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: and so she gets rid of them. It's just like 97 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: that in and of itself, that kind of behavioral adaptation 98 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: is phenomenal to me, Like how that came about. It's 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: just amazing gross but awesome too. 100 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's so gross, but it's so sweet because 101 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: like obviously you know, it's this dog wanting to I mean, 102 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: it's hard to talk about animals in terms of what 103 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: they want, like because they have these instincts, right, and 104 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: this mother dog doesn't know why she's drawn to eating 105 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: her offsprings poop, but it is it is a it's 106 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: still sweet because it's like this this instinct to protect 107 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: your offspring to help them grow and develop. I mean, 108 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: it makes sense, that's how evolution works. But it's also 109 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: like it's one of the things that like, oh yeah, 110 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: like humans are not the only ones that deal with 111 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: baby poop, like other animals deal with baby poop. A 112 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: cute thing. I think another kind of cute gross poop 113 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: thing is that birds, a lot of bird species, they 114 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: don't want to just have their baby birds poop and 115 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: have the poop accumulate and the nests. So the baby 116 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: bird poop is actually kind of comes in it. When 117 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: it comes out, it's sort of encased in this like 118 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: mucoasal sack, and then it lifts its little butt up 119 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: and presents this poop too. It's and the mom bird 120 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: just like picks it up with her beak because you know, 121 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: she doesn't have hands, and carries it outside the nest 122 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: and deposits it outside the nest. So it's it's kind 123 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: of gross but also really cute. And I have seen 124 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: a video of someone who's taking care of a baby 125 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: bird that was sadly abandoned, and this person has to 126 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: take a pair of chompsticks and pick up the little 127 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: poop package every time this bird feeds and then like 128 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: presents its butt, presents this poop. It's really cute and 129 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: also obviously a little gross. 130 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: Isn't it phenomenal that that works that way. I actually 131 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: challenge kids and adults sometimes because we're all just big kids, 132 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: to watch a nest with binoculars and you can actually 133 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: tell when the young have hatched and started to digest 134 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: food or consume food because you'll start to see the 135 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: mother and add too, carrying away the fecals. It's just crazy. 136 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: It's so it's it's like, oh, yeah, other animals, I 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: guess have to deal with quote unquote poopy diapers, except 138 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 1: it's like a natural diaper. 139 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it would be great if you know, we 140 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: had natural diapers for our young as well, but yeah, 141 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:14,679 Speaker 2: but we don't. 142 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: No, we don't, we don't. So another major theme in 143 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: your book is the immune system, which I mean, again, 144 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 1: I as an adult, got to kick out of reading 145 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,119 Speaker 1: this book, but it is it is a great book 146 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: for kids as well. And I think this is a 147 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: great introduction to the immune system to kids because it's 148 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: it seems overwhelming, right, Like the immune system, it's so complicated, 149 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: there's so many things but I think it's also like 150 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: when you think about the parts of the immune system, 151 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: it gets a little bit easier to understand what's going 152 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: on because there's actually two major parts of the immune system, 153 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: and one is the innate or non specific immune system 154 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: and the adaptive immune system. And the innate immune system 155 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: we see every day when you look in the mirror, 156 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: you look at other people. It's our skin, it's our mucus, 157 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: it's our earwax, our hair, all of these things that 158 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: are a barrier to pathogens. There's also on the cellular 159 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: level innate immune cells, such as phagocytes that will actually 160 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: basically eat pathogens, eat things that are not supposed to 161 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: be there, break them down so that they are harmless. 162 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes they break it down and then that's when the 163 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: adaptive immune system can come into place. So the adaptive 164 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: immune system is the part of the immune system that 165 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: actually launches a response specifically towards a type of pathogen 166 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: that it recognizes. So when you learn about a virus, 167 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: like you get infected with a virus, your body learns 168 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: about it, then it launches an adaptive immune response, and 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: this one is a little more precise and it can 170 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: be stronger it can in a stronger reaction, but it is. 171 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: It's really interesting because this adaptive immune system is in 172 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: this kind of like ballet with viruses and bacteria, this 173 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: evolutionary kind of arms race, and so both humans and 174 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: animals have adaptive and innate immune systems, and the balances 175 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: can be different. Some animals actually have a very weak 176 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: adaptive immune system or a very weak innate immune system, 177 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: and it kind of they balance each other out. Like 178 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: the deep sea anglerfish has actually kind of done away 179 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: with a lot of its adaptive immune system because the 180 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: male deep sea anglerfish attaches itself to the female and 181 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: actually kind of like fuses grafts itself onto the female. 182 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: And if this adaptive immune system knew that this male 183 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: was there, it would try to kill it, and that 184 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: would put a kibosh on the wh whole like mating 185 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: strategy of these these fish. And so instead it's thought 186 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: that it overcomes this weaker adaptive immune system with a 187 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: stronger passive immune system, like a you know, thicker skin, 188 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: more mucosal membranes and so, and also just the fact 189 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: that they're not really running into each other a lot 190 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: down there, so sparsely populated, but in general, animals have 191 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: both an innate and an adaptive immune system, and the 192 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: innate immune system can be really really interesting. Uh, And 193 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: I really love your examples in this book, especially when 194 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: when we're talking about slime. So what is so many 195 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: animals are slimy and it seems gross, but it's actually 196 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: really interesting and really important. So what is I mean, 197 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: what is slime? What is mucus? And what is what 198 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: is it used for? And why is it so popular 199 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: in nature? 200 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Slime is awesome. Don't we love it? I mean, 201 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: it is just great. We all have it. It's there, 202 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: it's a part of of well, I don't know an 203 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: animal that it's not a part of. But the amazing 204 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: thing is that slime protects us, you know, it's in 205 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: our nose and it's one of those other than skin, 206 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: which is kind of the first barrier, right, But that 207 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: slime is there to catch intruders as they come into 208 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: the body and attack it. One of the stories I 209 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: love is about the hagfish, which people. 210 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: Probably I love the hagfish. 211 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: They're so gross and so slimy, right, and their slime 212 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: does a number of different things, but it also includes 213 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: licensomes and that when they the licenz homes are just 214 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: these amazing attackers, right, So any bacteria or things like that, 215 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: they just go at it, hack it, wack it, and 216 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: smack it. And I just think that's pretty awesome to 217 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 2: look at kind of across the dul Kingdom, how similar 218 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: adaptations are used, and also how every species has its 219 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: own unique way of attacking these invaders. One of the 220 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 2: stories I love to talk about is the ants, because 221 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: ants don't give a lot get a lot of credit, right, 222 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: I mean, there's little things, but amazingly scientists are studying 223 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: ants in order to better understand our immune system. One 224 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: of the things that happens, at least to my mind, 225 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: when I'm understanding immune systems is it's so complex. It's 226 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: hard to hard to visualize, right, But when you think 227 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: about an ant colony as an individual a super organism, 228 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 2: you can kind of get a better sense of how 229 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: a human body might work. For example, we've all seen yeah, yeah, right, 230 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: Like we've all seen an ant hill. We see ants 231 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: go in, right, and if you think about that ant hill, 232 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: if you touch it, you know how they react. So 233 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: thinking that that ant hill is kind of like our skin, 234 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: the outside surface, Like if we attack it. They're gonna 235 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 2: attack us, just like if something breaks our skin barrier, 236 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 2: our immune system's gonna attack it. But then there are 237 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 2: the normal places where things go into the ant hill, 238 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: like the openings, you know, the entrance ways. But right 239 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: there at the entrance ways to that ant hill are guards, 240 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: and those guards are gonna attack anything that tries to 241 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: come in that is not the self, right, just like 242 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: our nose that slim in our nose, it's gonna do 243 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: the same thing, right, And as you go deeper into 244 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: the ant hill, you have more and more protection. What 245 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: was amazing to me is as I researched for this book, 246 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: I discovered I never thought about the fact that ants 247 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: are exposed to fungus all the time because they live 248 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: in the soil, and fungus lives in the soil, and 249 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: fungus would just love to like dive into an ant 250 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: hill and create an epidemic because one little ant carrying 251 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: fungus spores into the ant hill. Oh, they could go crazy. 252 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: But you know, you've got those guards on the doorway 253 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: that are gonna maybe catch those spores. But as the 254 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: ant worker ant goes deeper into the ant hill, there's 255 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: there are other cleaner ants, sanitation ants, right, and so 256 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: what's fascinating to be is that these ants, these sanitation ants, 257 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: remove these fungal spores, but yet don't get sick themselves. 258 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: And I was like, how, And so I looked into 259 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: the research and it's just amazing. This guy, Christopher pull 260 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: is doing some awesome research with them. One of the 261 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: things that happens in certain ants is they they actually 262 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: put the spores in their mouths. Wait, leaning the ants, 263 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: they're putting the spores in their mouth It sounds really 264 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: really like the wrong thing. 265 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: To get dangerous. 266 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, but they have these pockets in their mouth, 267 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: little pockets in their mouths that they stuck the spores into, 268 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 2: and then they carry the spores off into the garbage 269 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: basically and get. 270 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: Rid of them and spit it out. Yeah, that's amazing. 271 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: And this story goes deeper and deeper because in this story, 272 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: actually if the young, the pupa, the larvae are infected 273 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: by spores, the sanitation ants actually destroy them, which sounds. 274 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: Terrible, right, it's zombie apocalypse rules, you know. 275 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: The zombie absolution, And but it's such an analogy to 276 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: our own bodies, where if we have cells that are infected, 277 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: guess what they have to die? 278 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: Apoptosis is. It's it's really interesting because the cell death 279 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: sounds really bad. Oh, cell death, it's the thing that 280 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: keeps us alive. We need our cells to die. They 281 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: can replenish obviously. If you have too much cellular death, 282 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. But if you have no cellular death, 283 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: that's actually what cancer basically is. It's when your cell 284 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: doesn't know how to die. It's your cell loses the ability. 285 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: There's a mutation that prevents it from uh from dying 286 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: from this process called apoptosis, and that is really really bad. 287 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: It's also what protects us from pathogens, because an infected 288 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,239 Speaker 1: cell can be like, oh, this isn't good actually, like 289 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: destroy itself, and even through destroying itself, can can cause 290 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: the virus to break apart, and then that can be 291 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: picked up by other cells, which go, oh, this is 292 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: an interesting thing to learn from and bring those little 293 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: those little antigens, the parts of the virus that are 294 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: that can be learned from. And so yeah, it's really 295 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: interesting how like the the immune system does attack our 296 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: own bodies sometimes and that's both important in life saving 297 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: and can also cause a lot of problems, right like, 298 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: if if our immune system attacks our own cells too strongly, 299 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: that can actually kill us. And if they don't attack 300 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: cells strongly enough, it's too weak of an immune response, 301 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: and so then the virus can actually directly harm our 302 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: cells and go and be and replicate unabated. But yeah, 303 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: that bounds. I love the connection to the ants because 304 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: you see these kind of very complex colony behaviors. Is 305 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: very much like how the immune system works because with ants, 306 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: you have a hierarchy. It's use sociality, right, Like, so 307 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: you have very specific roles that each of the ants has, 308 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: and you have like obviously the queen ants, which are 309 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: the ones that are the only ones that can reproduce generally, 310 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: but you also have different roles for the ants and something. 311 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: It can also be a different role based on the 312 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: time and the ants life or the same thing with bees, 313 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: right like a bees life cycle, their role might change 314 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: as it gets older. And so you see a very 315 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: similar thing in the immune system where you have these 316 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: immune cells and they have these It's kind of like 317 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 1: a use social system within our own bodies. Because you 318 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: have this hierarchical system, you have these very specific roles 319 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: that each of the cells play and these rules they 320 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: have to play by, and it's really interesting because we 321 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: have to have to be a unified organism. There has 322 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: to be that sacrifice in order to help the larger system, right, 323 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: the entire ant colony or the entire human to function. 324 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: And without that kind of sacrifice of these cells, we 325 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: couldn't function as an entire organism, which I think is 326 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: so interesting. 327 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. And the fact, one of the other things 328 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: that I found interesting about the story of about the 329 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: ants is that the worker ants basically are inoculating themselves 330 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: against the disease. Those interesting. Yeah, So if they're exposed 331 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: to a small amount of scores, which they do as 332 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: you know, workers bring in spores from the environment than 333 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: those workers and then those immune sorry, those sanitary ants, 334 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: sanitization ants are immune. 335 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: They develop immunity. That's incredible. 336 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it's just a great analogy because we can 337 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: visualize that ant moving here and there and everywhere, and 338 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 2: in fact, in our body and all animals, you know, 339 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 2: the cells are kind of like those little animal can 340 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: I go back to something you mentioned absolutely, and that 341 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: is you mentioned how our immune systems sometimes kind of 342 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: can react and. 343 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: Overreact and how that affects our body, you know, speaking 344 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 3: specifically about viruses, because that's something that we're all very 345 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: interested in these days. 346 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the symptoms really are just our body 347 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: reacting and overreacting. And that reminds me of the story 348 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 2: of the bats, which just blows my mind. 349 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I love bats, and I let there well, 350 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to interrupt you, but I just they're 351 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: so interesting to me, and especially when it comes to immunity, 352 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: because they have such big requirements in terms of energy 353 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: for flying. A mammal that can fly, it's it's an 354 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,239 Speaker 1: incredible feat. It's this warm blooded, thermal regulating animal that 355 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: can also fly, and it has a relatively short evolutionary 356 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: history of flight when you compare it to say, like insects, 357 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: and so it's really really interesting. And the pressures, the 358 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: the metabolic and energy pressures on these bats are incredible, 359 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: and so they have really interesting immune systems. And anyways, 360 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: now I'm gonna let you you tell your story. 361 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 4: No, that's great, I love it because one of the 362 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 4: things about bats is there's still so many questions about them, right, 363 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 4: like this idea that they can fly, but yet to 364 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 4: do that requires this huge metabolic rate. 365 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: How do they survive that? Because if we tried to 366 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: do that, our body would crash in so many ways. 367 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: Number one, because we'd be producing so much waste that 368 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 2: our immune system would be going after that waste and 369 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: and it would just be it would be it would 370 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: be a storm of our immune system. Right. So scientists 371 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 2: are really curious about how bads actually survive. I mean 372 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: most people have heard that, you know, bats can carry 373 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: many many viruses and that we can't in fact acquire 374 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: viruses from bats and vice versa. But you know, how 375 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: is that? How can they survive? I mean, there's so 376 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: many bad species, there's bats across the entire world except 377 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 2: for Antarctica, and how can they be surviving so many viruses? 378 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: And come find out one of the one of the 379 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: things is their innate immune system is strong, so strong 380 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: that that may be driving the evolution of viruses, right 381 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 2: because their bodies. In order for a virus to successfully 382 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: infect that, it's got to be pretty amazing. The interesting 383 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: story that I discovered as I was doing research for 384 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: this book is that the innate. While the innate immune system, 385 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: the first immune system basically is so strong, the secondary 386 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: or the adaptive required depending on who you're talking to. 387 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: That immune system basically says, guess what, virus, if you 388 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: made it past that first line? Okay, so what if 389 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: the immune system decides to not react? And I'm saying 390 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: this anthropomorphically obviously, but if the immune system isn't reacting 391 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 2: in this storm, the symptoms aren't there, right, And in 392 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 2: order to figure that out. The work that went into 393 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: that was amazing because you had to actually look at 394 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: what was happening on a cellular level to create that storm. 395 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: This inflammation they call it the inflammazone and basically what's 396 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: happening is, in comparison to other mammals, bats turned down 397 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: like a dial, they turn down or they dial down 398 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: that inflammation rate. And when you do that, you don't 399 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: have the information. When you don't have the information, therefore 400 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 2: you don't have the symptoms. Basically, they're kind of saying them, Oh, wait, 401 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: you're not really hurting me, virus, Why don't I just 402 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: let you be? Like, we don't have to fight, which 403 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 2: I think is a really cool message just to think about. Right, 404 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: if you're not really killing me, yeah, you know, we 405 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 2: can deal, we can survive. Yeah, we can coexist, which 406 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: is powerful. 407 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, you do talk about 408 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: this a bit in sec which again I love because 409 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: this is so cool to like introduce these concepts of 410 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: like the fact that we do have some viral DNA 411 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: still with us, right, Like viruses don't always viruses in 412 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: bacteria especially like are not always dangerous. They can actually 413 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: start to incorporate themselves that there's like a there can 414 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: be like a mutualistic symbiosis between animals and bacteria and 415 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: even viruses, And it's so cool. And I mean the 416 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: other thing with bats is, like I think it's it's 417 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: a really important thing for people to understand that the 418 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: reason that bats can have these these viruses that can 419 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: be dangerous for humans is not because they're dirty. They're 420 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: actually very hygienic, uh, they but the fact that they 421 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: have these this very different kind of immune system, this 422 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: immune system that has adapted differently from ours. So like 423 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: if they when they encounter a virus, right and they 424 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: don't have they have successfully whittled down the viral load 425 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: because of their incredible innate immune system, and then they 426 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: don't have as strong of an inflammatory response, so then 427 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: they survive. When we're introduced to that same virus, our 428 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: innate response, our adaptive response is going to be much stronger, 429 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: and so we can actually even though without our adaptive 430 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: immune system we wouldn't get very far because we wouldn't 431 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: be able to destroy viruses and pathogens that could replicate 432 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: inside of us. It also means that we can have 433 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: this massive inflammatory response, a cytokine storm, which is essentially 434 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: like a game of dominoes gone wrong inside of your 435 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: immune system, and it can be really damaging. So it's 436 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: like the same immune response that can save your life, right, 437 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: like a fever which is killing off a bacteria or 438 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: virus which can save your life, can also kill you. 439 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: But back to the concept of these viruses not always 440 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: being bad for us, Like the the fact that we 441 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: have like in our DNA now like from you know, 442 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: millions of years ago, like viral DNA that has inserted 443 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: itself into our DNA and then it just works out 444 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: is incredible to me. 445 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we think of that, you know, we have this 446 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 2: bias that viruses are bad. Well, guess what, so much 447 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: of our DNA is viral, which I had no idea 448 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: how that happened, right, I didn't understand the entire concept 449 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: of retroviruses, which, okay, can we we can dive deeply 450 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 2: into this I didn't get, so let's do it. There's 451 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: an entire chapter that didn't make it into this book 452 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: because it was so complex, but it just am so 453 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 2: fascinated by it. Right, So, retroviruses, all viruses, we most 454 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: of us know that the virus has to enter the 455 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: cell of the host to be replicated, right, but retroviruses 456 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 2: go deeper than that. So once they enter the cell 457 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: and their DNA is their their genetic material I should say, 458 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: is replicated, then that genetic material actually enters the cell's nucleus, which. 459 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 5: Is like whoa, whoa, Like that's the safe house, you know, 460 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 5: like the cell is one thing. But entering the nucleus, 461 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 5: where like the genetic material of the host exists, you're 462 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 5: like entering the vault. 463 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: And then that that retroviral genetic material inserts itself into 464 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: the host's genetic material, which is like so mind blowing 465 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: that that can actually happen. But if you think about 466 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: it again, it's this concept that like, do we have 467 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: to be a war? We're two there are two organisms here, 468 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 2: and you can either be a war and one can 469 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: win and the other can lose or you could coexist 470 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: in an amazing way. That's happened and every placental mammal, 471 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: every placental mammal, so we think of that as you 472 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: know us and other large organizers, but we all have 473 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 2: retroviral DNA in us that allows us to give live birth. 474 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: It's amazing, amazing. 475 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: Okay, I have to tell this story about these kittens 476 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: that came into my life as I was doing this research. 477 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: There was a cat that got hit by a car 478 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: and long story short, she was pregnant and she was 479 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 2: not gonna make it, but she was doing well enough 480 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: that she crawled up in my lap and gave birth 481 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: to kittens. Wow, they were amazing. Well, I had never 482 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: observed that, and I had been doing this research about placenta, 483 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: so I got very interested in the placenta and how 484 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: this happened. Turns out, you know, and a zygod an 485 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: embryo is is going to be considered non self right right, Yes, 486 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: an outside invader inside the mother. The question comes, how 487 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: in the world does a mother's body accept this invader 488 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: in because they shouldn't. Like the immune system from the 489 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: mother should attack this invader and kick it out. Well, 490 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: who's really good at checking the immune system viruses. In 491 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: order for a virus to enter our cell, it has 492 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: to trick us. It has to have that message on 493 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: its surface, that protein that says, wait, wait, I'm part 494 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: of you. It's okay, don't worry about me. I'm just 495 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: I belong here. 496 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: Fake the fake ID that sells carry around because we 497 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: have these, we have essentially tiny cops inside of our 498 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: bodies called natural kill our cells that will go around 499 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: checking everyone's passport, checking everyone's papers. It's a little bit 500 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's a little authoritarian inside our bodies sometimes. 501 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: And so a lot of viruses have created this like 502 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: basically a fake ID to show the natural killerself like 503 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: I'm legit. But yeah, that that can be applied to 504 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: protecting our own offspring is amazing. 505 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: Right. So if that, if that future offspring didn't have 506 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 2: that retroviral genetic material that therefore programmed the proteins on 507 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 2: its surface to tell the mother, hey it's okay, let 508 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 2: me in the placenta, would never happen, right, The attachment 509 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: would never happen. And so every single one of us 510 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: we should be thinking that the viruses, right, because we 511 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: were born it's just amazing and a phenomenal thing. Kind 512 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: of on a little another aside, but it's amazing. Is 513 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: there's there are some lizards that do this as well. 514 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: Wait lizards. Lizards are not supposed to have licentis, but 515 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: yet they did some of them down right. It's because 516 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 2: this retroviral invasion has happened so many times across time. Girls. 517 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's amazing. Yeah, it's so it's I mean, 518 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: it's the same. I think that people are more familiar 519 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: with this concept when it comes to bacteria, right, Like, 520 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: we've got good bacteria and bad bacteria. Uh, and a 521 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: lot of it is not even just good or bad bacteria, 522 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: but the balance of bacteria, right Like, it's a specific 523 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: balance of which bacteria you have and your own immune system. 524 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: Right for some people, bacteria that's generally good and fine 525 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: can be bad for someone else because their immune system 526 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: reacts too strongly to it. So there are all these 527 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: different factors that come into play. But that's the same 528 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: thing with like viruses, right like most I mean, it's 529 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: true that most times you catch some kind of virus, 530 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: right like a cold or a flu, it's not good 531 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: for you. It's not good necessarily good to get sick, 532 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: you know. Sometimes it's it's just a fact of life 533 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: that you're going to get sick. Uh. And some times 534 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: the timing of when you get sick can be really important, 535 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: right Like, if you get certain viruses, you absolutely do 536 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: not want to get as an infant because your immune 537 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: system's too weak. But some if you do get as 538 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: an infant, they're less serious when you're an adult. Now 539 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: we have vaccines which make it a lot safer to 540 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: introduce viral information to infants and to adults without us 541 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: having to go through the risks of infection. But it's 542 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: really interesting to see the way that you know, the 543 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: that like viruses, like being introduced to a virus isn't 544 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: always bad. Sometimes it depends on the timing of the virus. 545 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: And then sometimes there can be a virus that actually 546 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: aids in our evolution. But then again, I'm not suggesting 547 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: that you go out and like French kiss someone who 548 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: has COVID or the flu, because most times, most times 549 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: that we encounter viruses, it's not necessarily going to be 550 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: a good thing. It might not hurt us that badly, 551 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: but it's certainly not gonna, you know, be the next 552 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: stage in human evolution. But if that happens enough, like 553 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: I think just that the scale of evolution of millions 554 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: of years of this happening, you know, once in a 555 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: while there will actually be a useful mutation caused by 556 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: this viral DNA, which again, it's it's really interesting when 557 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: like that RNA and DNA essentially can like float around 558 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: and then just be absorbed into the cell and then whoop, 559 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: now it's part of our DNA. It's so weird. That 560 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that should be how it works, right, 561 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: that there can be free floating uh, you know, RNA 562 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: or DNA that we can actually incorporate into our own 563 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: genome and then pass on through our reproductive cells. That 564 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: seems like that should not work, but it does, and 565 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: that's probably I mean, that's like we're getting into sort 566 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: of the origin of life, right like where you have 567 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: these free floating strands of proteins that one you know, 568 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: glob absorbs another glob and now it's become a more 569 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: complex glob that has proteins that can start to actually 570 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: construct new proteins, which is, you know, so hard for 571 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: me to wrap my head around how that started. 572 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 2: And so hard for all of us, and I think 573 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 2: science in general were hesitant to accept ideas, which is awesome, right. 574 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 2: That's what makes science unique in that we consider new 575 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 2: hypotheses and theories, but we have to have lots of evidence. 576 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 2: And one of the really cool stories about that, of course, 577 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: is our own mitochondria. This story started a very long 578 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: time ago where people started wondering, weight, what's up with 579 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: this mitochondria? The powerhouse, right, the cells like ourselves can 580 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 2: function without them because they're what converts the sugar into energy. 581 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: But they're weirdos. They don't seem to belong in a cell. 582 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: And for the long time, some scientists were very curious 583 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: about this and saying, wait, there's something different, and other 584 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 2: folks were like, no, no, no, no, you're what are 585 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 2: you talking about? That's weird, you know. And for a 586 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 2: long time, the uh, the science behind my country where 587 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: they came from, was ignored. But now we understand that 588 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 2: they are very different the mitochondria as an organelle. And 589 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 2: you know, the theory is that they came from microbes. 590 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: So if we had never incorporated this microbe, this other 591 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 2: you know, into a cell, the complex cells with the 592 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 2: U carry outs would never have evolved, which just so 593 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: mind blowing. I mean, the whole idea of good versus 594 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: bad is a thing, you know, right, like the story 595 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 2: of the Turkey vultures. We talk about vultures because they 596 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: are awesome. 597 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: I mean I love them so yes, absolutely. 598 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: They're amazing. I mean, like they stick their head in 599 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 2: the grossest nast stuff, which we know is full of bacteria. 600 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 2: And if we think about sticking our head into a 601 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 2: dead body and eating it, of course we think everything 602 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: in there, all that bacteria that's rotting it, it's got to 603 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 2: be awful. But yet they don't get sick, right, they don't. 604 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: They survived this stuff and they don't have any food 605 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 2: poisoning and wow. And so a scientist decided to investigate that, 606 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: like he's like, we've got to understand what's going into 607 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 2: their body, and so he took a bunch of dead vultures. Sadly, 608 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: there were a number of vultures that he swabbed their 609 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: faces and their necks, and he found like over seven 610 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: hundred different bacterial species on them, Like, wait, seven hundred 611 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: can you imagine? And some of those were like really 612 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: really intense, And he's like, okay, so what's going in 613 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 2: their mouths, you know, is whatever's on their face and 614 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: lo and behold when he looks in their guts, there's 615 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 2: about seventy over just over set species. Like that's huge, 616 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 2: and so how did that happen? You know? And what's 617 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 2: going on that we don't know? Right? That is such 618 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: new science, We don't know. But what's intriguing to think 619 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: about is the ones that are in the guts are 620 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 2: the ones that we would freak out if they were 621 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 2: in our guts. Like there's flesh eating bacteria in there, 622 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 2: there's ecola, there's this stuff. We're like, whoa get away 623 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 2: from us? Right, But yet they're surviving and thriving in there, 624 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: and we would assume that that's terrible. Maybe not, you know, 625 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: maybe they're actually supporting each other. 626 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I mean that is what is so interesting, right, Like, 627 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: you can have these very complex symbiotic relationships, and symbiosis 628 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: is not always good and it's not always bad, right, Like, 629 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: Symbiosis just describes a close uh, basically a ballet between 630 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: two species. It could be a parasite and a ghost, 631 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: or it could be a mutualistic relationship. And sometimes these 632 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: relationships can like change over time, right, something that was 633 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: once like maybe at some point in the vulture's evolutionary 634 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: history these bacteria did harm them, and then over time 635 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: they evolved to coexist in a way where the bacteria 636 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: were able to survive, but so was the vulture. And 637 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's so interesting because I mean, I do 638 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: I love vultures, and I love how like all of 639 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: the things that we see about them that seems to 640 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: make them gross, right, Like they have these bald heads 641 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, that's that's gross looking. That's for hygiene. 642 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: That's so blood and stuff doesn't get stuck to their feathers. 643 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: And then they poop on themselves. They poop on their 644 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: legs and for us that'd be like the most gross 645 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: thing you could do, But that's also for hygiene. They 646 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: have this very like they like bird poop in general 647 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: is a combination of urine and feces typically, and so 648 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: like the turepoop has this very it's very acidic, and 649 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: so it actually cleans their legs. And so it's like 650 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: these things that we would consider disgusting about them, right 651 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: Like they're eating they're eating a corpse. It's usually a 652 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 1: rotting cadaver, or it's it's really disgusting. Well, they're actually 653 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: taking a lot of like bacteria and nasty things out 654 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: of the environment and then converting it into food, containing 655 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: it and expelling it in a way that is less 656 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: harmful to other animals, to other to the environment. So 657 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, these are actually amazing, Like we 658 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: can think of them as like the sanitation experts of 659 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: the animal kingdom. So everything that seems gross about them 660 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: to us is actually this process of taking these bad 661 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: things and then turning it into a process that like 662 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 1: works for them and then is helpful for preventing the 663 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: spread of disease and other animals. 664 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 2: We should be thinking them every. 665 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: Day, I personally do. 666 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 2: I realized I misspoke. When Gary the scientist Gary Graves 667 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 2: studied the vultures, he found over five hundred species on 668 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 2: their heads. I get so many. You know, what we 669 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 2: keep kind of coming back to is this idea of 670 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 2: evolution and you know, microbes and germs and all of 671 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 2: those things that we see is so bad. They're bad 672 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: for individuals, yes, but for populations it's. 673 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: Different, you know, Yeah, And. 674 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 2: So it's interesting to you know, our perspective as individuals 675 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 2: is that these things are bad because they can kill individuals. 676 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 2: But if we look in the evolutionary scope, that's different, 677 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 2: right in terms of the diversity that we have on 678 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 2: the planet. They've driven this evolution, and that's just a 679 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 2: mind boggling idea. 680 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And without that diversity, I mean, what's this 681 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: is what's interesting, right, is because we have all sorts 682 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: of different selective pressures, from the very small like bacteria 683 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: and viruses, to the very large, like a meteor hitting 684 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: the Earth and changing the climate. And we can't like, 685 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: like the the fact that like bacteria and viruses have 686 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: driven this diversification of species, right, Like you know, you 687 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: would think like, well, so what right, it causes a 688 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: lot of suffering. So it's not they're not really good 689 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: to have. But because you have such a diversity of species, 690 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: then life can survive things like the climate suddenly changing, 691 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: a meteor striking their earth and causing because now you 692 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: have more of a like a genetic library for these 693 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: different animals. And so you're going to have the mass 694 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: extinction of a lot of animals, but you're going to 695 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: have just enough that have the ability to survive this. 696 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: And so much of that is driven by microbes, by 697 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: things that are things that are harmful and bad but 698 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: have driven this diversification of species that they actually are 699 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: able to survive, you know, devastating events. Maybe not on 700 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: the individual level, which is sad for the individual of course, 701 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: but in terms of like just life on Earth, like, 702 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 1: viruses and bacteria are not necessarily bad for life on 703 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: Earth like for individual lives. Yes, and so again, keep 704 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: washing your hands, keep getting vaccinated. I'm not saying on 705 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: an individual level it's good for us to get walloped 706 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 1: by the flu or whatever. But yeah, in terms of 707 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: just general life on Earth, these relationships that we have 708 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: with with pathogens is actually really complex and it's not 709 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: all bad exactly. 710 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 2: And there's the whole, the whole idea that we've lumped 711 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 2: all microbes into this bad category. You know, it's very 712 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 2: easy for us too, because we can't see them, and 713 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 2: when we can't see them, we don't understand them. And 714 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 2: that's why I'm so passionate about learning and teaching about 715 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 2: this because the more we know, Wow, it opens our 716 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 2: eyes to so many things that we didn't understand. This 717 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 2: complexity that's there, These microbes that are in our bodies 718 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 2: that we wouldn't survive without you know that's it's mind blowing. 719 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: It's something you can't even if you can't directly see it, 720 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: it's something you can feel. If you've ever had a 721 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:39,240 Speaker 1: bad stomach flu, which I have had recently, and essentially 722 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: what happens with the stomach flu is your body is 723 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: like hits the eject button because something is in there 724 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: that's that's bad. Sometimes it's a virus, sometimes it's food poisoning, 725 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: and so your body is like emergency, We've got to evacuate. 726 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: We've got to get rid of this. So you're gonna 727 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: vomit and you're gonna have diarrhea. Uh. And so that's 728 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: why it's I mean, the number one thing when you 729 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: have a stomach flu or food poisoning is hydration because 730 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: like you're losing a lot of fluid, uh. Food, you 731 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about as much. You will you 732 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: will be hungry when you're hungry. It's going to take 733 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: a little while. But yeah, so you should hydrate. But 734 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: your your body is doing something important. It is it 735 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,800 Speaker 1: is getting rid of something that it thinks is really 736 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: dangerous and could cut and could really severely hurt you. 737 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: Is it always right? Maybe not, but it's it's doing 738 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,280 Speaker 1: the best job it can in terms of gauging. Okay, 739 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: when do we need to just eject everything? But what 740 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: happens is you actually lose like through that injection, Like 741 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: after that, you might find that sometimes you get more 742 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 1: kind of you feel kind of yucky a while after, 743 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: Like after you're done with the stomach flu, after you're 744 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 1: done with the food poisoning, you still kind of maybe 745 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: get maybe some like indigestion or some stomach issues. And 746 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: it's like, well, because you flushed out a lot of 747 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: good bacteria as well, and which is why you know, 748 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: the immune response has to be so delicate and not 749 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: always go off all the time whenever you are infected 750 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: with them, you know, a tiny pathogen like because that 751 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: that flushing out, you are flushing out also like good bacteria. 752 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's good to like uh sort 753 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: of uh try to you know, once you start to 754 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,839 Speaker 1: rehydrate and eat food and stuff, and naturally your your 755 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: gut flora will repopulate. So it's not something you have 756 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: to panic about or anything like that. But it is 757 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: really interesting and it's also it's so interesting these there 758 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: are things in medicine where we recognize right, the power 759 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: of this gut bacteria. So we have things like fecal transplants, 760 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: which sounds horrifying, sounds sounds not like something that you 761 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: would want to have happened, but it is apparently something 762 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: that can be really important in terms of helping repopulate 763 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: someone's gut with good bacteria, with something that can actually 764 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: help them help a person like when you digest, but 765 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: it can also protect you from other bacteria because bacteria, 766 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: like any organism, are in competition with each other. So 767 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: if you have a less harmful bacteria that is populating 768 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: your gut, it will try to compete with and interfere 769 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 1: with bacteria that might make you sick. So yeah, like 770 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: bacteria is often our friend, it's just sometimes when it isn't, 771 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: it's really noticeable. 772 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's nasty discussing. Yeah, fecal transplants are just amazing. 773 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 2: I just I can hardly believe that that works, but 774 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 2: it does. And once I met some folks who have 775 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 2: had fecal transplants and successfully, you know, cure m it's 776 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 2: just amazing what they what they can do. So when 777 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,240 Speaker 2: one of the things that amazes me is that even 778 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 2: bacteria that we see as the bad guys like staphylococcus, right, 779 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:12,120 Speaker 2: which can be really a huge problem. But staff itself 780 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 2: is infected. Some staff can exist on us in a 781 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 2: very healthy way, and other staff that have has genetic 782 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 2: material that's we're not really sure how it gets in there, 783 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,280 Speaker 2: but it has. It has additional genetic material from another 784 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 2: organism that in fact is like it in self is infected. 785 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 2: So we don't think about the fact that that all 786 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 2: of these microups are in their own world dealing with 787 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 2: infections of themselves just mind blowing. 788 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: When you zoom out more like it's easier to comprehend 789 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: that where when you have a mosquito, Mosquitoes do not 790 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: make us sick, right, Mosquitoes are would actually be relatively harmless. 791 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: They are parasites, but they would if if not for 792 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: pathogens that actually infect the mosquitoes. The mosquitoes themselves would 793 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: be pretty harmless to like a human, but because they 794 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:20,400 Speaker 1: themselves can be infected with uh, with pathogens with like 795 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: something that can actually be passed on to us, and 796 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: in fact that it's the whole reason that they will 797 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 1: infect the the the mosquito. The mosquito can then pass 798 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,439 Speaker 1: something along to us and so something that we see right, 799 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: like as this mosquito is like hurting us, It's like, well, 800 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: it's not really the mosquito itself, it's whatever has hitched 801 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: a ride on the mosquito. And then but then when 802 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: you of course, like you go and sort of like 803 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: all the evolutionary pressures and the sorts of like symbiotic 804 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,799 Speaker 1: relationships that affect like like organisms, you know, macro organisms 805 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: are those same things are happening on a microscopic level. 806 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: Like that is not my I don't talk about it 807 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,320 Speaker 1: as much because it is not sort of my area 808 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: of expertise, but it is still really really interesting. 809 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,320 Speaker 2: It is mind blowing. I came across a study of ticks, 810 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 2: same concept, where a tick doesn't ask to be infected 811 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 2: by lime disease, right, that's not something they chose, right, 812 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 2: they are infected. There's an amazing study of a lizard 813 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 2: out in the western United States. Who if an infected 814 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 2: tick bites this lizard. We don't understand everything that's going 815 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 2: on here, but the tick when it leaves the lizard 816 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,480 Speaker 2: no longer has carries lime disease. 817 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: Oh that's so interesting, so. 818 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 2: Amazing, right, So something's happening when the blood from the 819 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 2: lizard enters the forega of the tick that's affecting that 820 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 2: disease causing microbe. Just mind blowing to think about it. 821 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 2: You know, we think of ticks they're terrible, awful, but 822 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 2: just like mosquitoes, they and of themselves don't cause that 823 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 2: much damage. 824 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but they are too convenient of a 825 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:18,240 Speaker 1: little taxi for like they like mosquitoes, ticks, fleas, rats, 826 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, all these these little animals that we think 827 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,280 Speaker 1: of as you know, gross, like you know, plague bearing animals. 828 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,719 Speaker 1: It's just because they're little taxis, right, Like, they get 829 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: around a lot. They're easy to hitch your right on, 830 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean it's like a flea hitching 831 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: your right on a rat. But then you know the 832 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: the bubonic plague hitching your right on the flea. It's 833 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,359 Speaker 1: it's these these other intermediary organisms have no idea that 834 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 1: they are little cab drivers for disease. And it's not 835 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 1: really their fault. Uh So it's I mean, it's not 836 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: even the disease's fault when you get down to it, 837 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: but you know, it's just it it is really interesting. 838 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,800 Speaker 1: Before we go, I guess I just wanted to circle 839 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: back to kind of the initial question that we talked about, like, 840 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: why do you think so called gross stuff is so 841 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: fascinating to people? Right? Because I certainly find it fascinating. 842 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: I have never grown out of finding poop and puke 843 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,360 Speaker 1: and mucus to be really interesting. Now I don't want 844 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,799 Speaker 1: to necessarily see it much in real life, right, Like, 845 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,319 Speaker 1: if I step on dog poop, I'm not like, well, 846 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: this is great. But in terms of being interested in 847 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 1: stories about it, being interested in the science of it, 848 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: what do you think is so compelling about it that 849 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 1: that kids and adults, even adults who don't want to 850 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: admit it, find so interesting. 851 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 2: I think it's the questions, because I think questions are 852 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,080 Speaker 2: and or curiosity all to linked together. That's what drives learning, 853 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,840 Speaker 2: and the human mind wants to learn, right, We're innately 854 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,400 Speaker 2: driven to learn and learn and learn. And when we 855 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 2: find something such as poop or blood or something like 856 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 2: that that society says, oh, no, gross, don't look at that, 857 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 2: don't pay attention to it, We're like, wait, what you know? 858 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 2: I want to know more? And the first question is 859 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,239 Speaker 2: why why am I not supposed to look at that? Right? 860 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 2: It's a kind of a taboo subject. But why, well, 861 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 2: then that just drives us to learn more and more 862 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,200 Speaker 2: the human mind. It's an amazing thing when we ask those questions, 863 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 2: when we look a little closer, that's when we discover 864 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 2: all of this that we've been talking about today was 865 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:32,040 Speaker 2: all driven by questions. Somebody's question about something weird that happened, 866 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 2: that they observed, and they dug a little deeper, and 867 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 2: in the end, our minds get blown again and again 868 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,919 Speaker 2: as we look at the animal kingdom right as we 869 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 2: discover these little bits and and what I'm so fascinated 870 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,560 Speaker 2: with is the fact that every single one of us 871 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,640 Speaker 2: can do that every day. All we have to do 872 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 2: is look and start asking questions. 873 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Well, thank you so much for coming on. Where 874 00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: can people find your book? What's it called? And because 875 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: I think that it's a really fun book. I think 876 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: it's especially good for older kids. But look, I read it, 877 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,479 Speaker 1: I'm an adult and I still enjoyed it. So where 878 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,479 Speaker 1: can people get your book? 879 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,839 Speaker 2: Well, first, thanks for that. I'm honored that you read 880 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 2: it and enjoyed it so much. This book is called 881 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,239 Speaker 2: Sick the Twist and turns behind Animal Germs, and you 882 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,720 Speaker 2: can find it online bookstores. It will not be available 883 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 2: until February twentieth, and it's also available if you want 884 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 2: to look at any of my books at Heather L. 885 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,480 Speaker 2: Montgomery dot com. 886 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and can you pre order it or is it? 887 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 2: Yes, it can be pre ordered any online booksseller. 888 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,040 Speaker 1: Fantastic. I have so much respect for these kinds of 889 00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: books and science education because I think it's so important 890 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,880 Speaker 1: to help drive sort of what kids are interested in. 891 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,799 Speaker 1: And if kids are interested in gross stuff, and it's like, well, 892 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 1: maybe we should maybe we should pay attention to that 893 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: and respect that rather than you know, seeing that as 894 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 1: not an appropriate thing. So thank you so much again 895 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,240 Speaker 1: for coming on today, and thank you to the listeners 896 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,320 Speaker 1: for listening to the show. A happy new year everyone. 897 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm so excited about a whole new year of podcasting. 898 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: And if you are enjoying the show and you leave 899 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,840 Speaker 1: a rating or review, I deeply appreciate it. I read 900 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,600 Speaker 1: all of your reviews, every single one. Print them all out, 901 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: make a book, read it every night to myself. And 902 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,680 Speaker 1: thank you to the Space Classics for their super awesome song. 903 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,800 Speaker 1: Ex Alumina Creature Feature is a production of iHeartRadio. For 904 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 1: more podcasts like the one you just heard visit day, 905 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,280 Speaker 1: iHeart radio, app Apple podcasts, or hey guess what wherever 906 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. I am not your mother. 907 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,440 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you what to do, how you decide 908 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:02,040 Speaker 1: to live your life. I will see you next Wednesday. 909 00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 2: M hmm