Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Evening listeners, Greg here with a special one off episode
Speaker 2: of Midnight Chats. At the moment, we are actually in
Speaker 2: the middle of taking a bit of a break over
Speaker 2: the summer. As Stu mentioned in the final episode of
Speaker 2: series seven that was the one with Georgia, we're taking
Speaker 2: this time to record a bunch of new chats, the
Speaker 2: stuff that will form Series eight that will begin at
Speaker 2: the end of the summer, sort of late August, early
Speaker 2: September something like that. We'll let you know when we'll
Speaker 2: be coming back with a full proper series. Anyway, it
Speaker 2: felt like a bit of a waste to hold onto
Speaker 2: this episode until then. We were just keen to get
Speaker 2: it out there and share it with you as a
Speaker 2: bit of an in between series special, let's call it that.
Speaker 2: In the middle of May I went to Brighton for
Speaker 2: the Great Escape Festival. If you don't know it, it's
Speaker 2: basically the festival when it comes to new artists, not
Speaker 2: just from the UK but international stuff. Something like four
Speaker 2: hundred performers maybe even more than that, playing down by
Speaker 2: the Seaside across three nights, across loads of different venues,
Speaker 2: and it was Brilliant. I had a great time, watched
Speaker 2: a bunch of bands, discovered some good new stuff, got
Speaker 2: mugged for my chips by some enormous seagulls, which I
Speaker 2: hear is fairly standard practice. And there's a daytime part
Speaker 2: to it all too, the Great Escape Conference which has
Speaker 2: loads of interesting talks and workshops, panels, things like that,
Speaker 2: And they were kind enough to invite us to record
Speaker 2: a live episode of Midnight Chats, and we couldn't have
Speaker 2: picked a better guest, to be honest. Self Esteem came
Speaker 2: along early on the Friday morning to record what you're
Speaker 2: about to hear. We've wanted Rebecca Taylor on the POT
Speaker 2: cast for a while, ever since we got sent the
Speaker 2: first tracks she made after leaving the band Slow Club
Speaker 2: and starting this solo project, Self Esteem. Compliments Please, was
Speaker 2: the debut album she released earlier this year. We talk
Speaker 2: a bit about that and what it was like taking
Speaker 2: the major step out of that band. She'd been in
Speaker 2: that band a long time and starting fresh again, not
Speaker 2: just with a new sound, but kind of with a
Speaker 2: new everything. The documentary film I mentioned in this is
Speaker 2: called Our Most Brilliant Friends. It's directed by a guy
Speaker 2: called Piers Dennis and that sets the scene well, and
Speaker 2: do check it out. There's a trailer on YouTube. It
Speaker 2: just got released to UK cinemas last week and it's
Speaker 2: very candid, not your average band documentary, so definitely want
Speaker 2: to watch. Even if you're not a fan of Slow
Speaker 2: Club or don't know that much about them, check it
Speaker 2: out because it's quite fascinating and definitely different to what
Speaker 2: you might have seen before. Anyway. More importantly, Rebecca was
Speaker 2: about to go and do the TV and go and
Speaker 2: channel for Sunday Brunch after we recorded this. She was
Speaker 2: very excited, understandably, but in this she also talks about
Speaker 2: why she compares herself to Henry the Eighth now and
Speaker 2: wants to duet with Rihanna. So if that's not a
Speaker 2: good enough preview for you, I'm not sure what is.
Speaker 2: So until we get back properly with a whole new
Speaker 2: series of the podcast later in the year, enjoy this
Speaker 2: recorded at the Great Escape Festival twenty nineteen on midnight Chats.
Speaker 1: Wow, so many people are here and it's packed.
Speaker 2: In, isn't it. Rebecca, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm great?
Speaker 2: How are you I'm good? I'm good. You've got quite
Speaker 2: a prestigious few days lined up around this. Yesterday you
Speaker 2: did be six Music Roundtable, so yes, today is the
Speaker 2: Great Escape, which is a big deal as we know.
Speaker 2: And later in the weekend you're doing the Telly.
Speaker 1: Aren't you the National Telly? My favorite thing to do
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me what you do.
Speaker 1: I'm on Sunday Brunch.
Speaker 2: Excellent, they're looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: Well, it's the main music show one can get on,
Speaker 3: and it's a cooking show.
Speaker 2: Or Andrew Maher, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hope, hopefully we can do the double But are
Speaker 1: you looking forward to it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I love all that hair make up Telly very
Speaker 3: bright last time I met Michael Ball, So yeah, I
Speaker 3: really love you know, like things that properly or the
Speaker 3: cool musicians think is lain I love it? Or loads
Speaker 3: I love a sponsored gig.
Speaker 2: The more corporate, the bet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know why I do, but I do.
Speaker 2: Sorry to not give you any free sort of merchandise
Speaker 2: as part of this way, We'll try and find something there.
Speaker 2: So Sunday Brunch. Then I had a quick look and
Speaker 2: you're on with some people from Made in Chelsea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, two blondes annoyingly so I think I'm worried about
Speaker 3: my representation. I think I'm going to fade into the
Speaker 3: background a bit. I'm not very excited about any of
Speaker 3: the guests.
Speaker 2: If I'm honest, disappointed No Michael Ball in.
Speaker 3: The no Ball, but it'll still be funny. And being
Speaker 3: there as self esteems feels.
Speaker 1: Quite kind of a big deal. I feel kind of
Speaker 1: proud about it.
Speaker 2: So you've done it before, obviously, And what was the
Speaker 2: experience like?
Speaker 3: Very difficult because when I was in the in Slow club,
Speaker 3: no one else liked that kind of thing, so it
Speaker 3: was quite hard. And I'm a desperate people pleaser, so
Speaker 3: I was just like, I felt really responsible that everyone
Speaker 3: hated that they were on the Telly, whereas I was
Speaker 3: having a nice time. So this time might be fun
Speaker 3: because my band role as daft as me, so we'll
Speaker 3: all be enjoying it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming a lot of people listening to
Speaker 2: this will know what a new Bunches is an early
Speaker 2: morning cooking stroke entertainment show on Channel four and it's
Speaker 2: hosted by Tim Lovejoy and celebrity chef Simon Rimmer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorite memories of the last one. Sorry,
Speaker 3: mel I tweeted, We're on Sunday Brunch to Nap Today
Speaker 3: with Tim love Geryman Simon rim Job and Mel was like,
Speaker 3: could you take that tweet down please? But I became
Speaker 3: buddies with Simon Rimmer after he's dead. Nice, he's been
Speaker 3: to my Manchester shows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always felt like he of that duo es
Speaker 2: off him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tim love Joe comes up on solebrity Tinder and
Speaker 3: has never swiped yes on me because obviously I say
Speaker 3: yes to all the celebrities because it's funny.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to bring that up.
Speaker 2: Have they been on any celebrity dates?
Speaker 3: I mean said, I couldn't tell you not off that
Speaker 3: app though I'm deleting that up.
Speaker 1: It's rubbish.
Speaker 2: Disappointed. So when you go on these things something like
Speaker 2: Sunday Brunch, do you you're going to perform on Sunday?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, do you get to do any cooking?
Speaker 3: Well we were trying to get them to let me cook,
Speaker 3: but I'm not famous enough. I'm like bottom of the
Speaker 3: wrong and that line up Lewis Capaldi got to but hey,
Speaker 3: maybe next help.
Speaker 2: Them to no jealousy here.
Speaker 3: I just realized how much my like I may call
Speaker 3: this music and I'm like, ah, and I'm so like,
Speaker 3: I'm very serious about all that. But then still I
Speaker 3: gauge it by whether or not, like I'm cooking an omelet,
Speaker 3: I'm telling you or not, that still is success more
Speaker 3: than like any of my really hard work.
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: Can you make me one promise if on Sunday they
Speaker 2: presume me there's a bit where they say Jamie from
Speaker 2: Maiding Chelsea has made you a steak tutar or some
Speaker 2: snails or something and you have to try it, will
Speaker 2: you call them out if it's not very nice? Because
Speaker 2: most people just the default answer just go there's a
Speaker 2: sort of pause, isn't there and they go, oh, that
Speaker 2: is delicious.
Speaker 3: I have a feeling I would probably say if I
Speaker 3: don't like it, I'm to lose.
Speaker 1: At this point, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think, but yeah, I as with this, like I
Speaker 3: don't really prep I just think, oh, just just take
Speaker 3: it as it comes, see what happens. Same with the
Speaker 3: roundtable yesterday or the other guests had listened to the
Speaker 3: songs and made notes and I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean I learned my lesson with the six Music Roundtable
Speaker 3: long ago after sort of slagging something off and then
Speaker 3: a tour manager I had told me that he'd been
Speaker 3: he'd been driving this band and they were just like
Speaker 3: ripping me to shreds because I'd said their song was
Speaker 3: shit and like about what I look like and things
Speaker 3: like that. So since then I was like, okay, when
Speaker 3: you're on the round table, which happens a lot, because
Speaker 3: I think I'm I think I'm the only woman.
Speaker 1: In music that they can think of.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I thought, And so now I just go, I
Speaker 3: give everything a seven and say everyone has a right
Speaker 3: to my music.
Speaker 1: And also once heard someone slagging a slow.
Speaker 3: Club song off on it and I, instead of having
Speaker 3: any confidence or self esteem hond was like out, so yeah,
Speaker 3: I just sa same with the TV, just keep it
Speaker 3: or very kind of nice.
Speaker 2: If you were cooking on Sunday bunch, what would you
Speaker 2: be making?
Speaker 1: Beans on tests? Probably? I do love they said.
Speaker 3: They asked me in the research chat, what's your favorite food?
Speaker 3: And all I could think of as beans on test.
Speaker 1: I am quite the cook.
Speaker 3: Actually I do like a fish tacko with a quackam
Speaker 3: only all that sort of thing. When I lived alone,
Speaker 3: I cooked a lot and that's a form of procrastination.
Speaker 3: But now I'm in London again and I'm living with
Speaker 3: people and I'm really busy.
Speaker 1: It's just a discounted it. So at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, at the moment, so as you.
Speaker 2: Mentioned, you're kind of quite keen on doing stuff like that.
Speaker 2: The more it seems like, the more surreal, the more
Speaker 2: up for it. I mean, those things are probably a
Speaker 2: little bit sort of strange on they almost becomes a
Speaker 2: weird experience at a TV studio, you're with some people
Speaker 2: from the reality TV show. It's just a different field
Speaker 2: to the whole thing. It's not it's not your average
Speaker 2: day in the office, so to speak. Are you kind
Speaker 2: of generally up for those type of experiences, like you
Speaker 2: just reliship this sort of the stranger more, the more different,
Speaker 2: the sort of bring it on.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 3: I think because I was in like an indie band
Speaker 3: for so long and so much of that was about
Speaker 3: it's sort of I think like as a teenager, I
Speaker 3: was like, cool, I'm doing those finger things for the
Speaker 3: podcast listeners. And something happened when and I realized I'm
Speaker 3: really tired of doing that, and I actually really liked
Speaker 3: Telly and especially like UK Telly and I like just
Speaker 3: no pretense and things like some ne brunch.
Speaker 1: It's just not cool, and that's what I like about it.
Speaker 3: It's just being confident, I guess, or yourself or I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. I don't know why I love it.
Speaker 3: And also it's like I've been doing this for so
Speaker 3: long and still.
Speaker 1: There's like members of my family that are like, when
Speaker 1: are you going to go on Next Factor?
Speaker 3: Like I do really appreciate these barometers of like success
Speaker 3: that that makes sense to people.
Speaker 1: That don't understand that I've sort of I've done all
Speaker 1: right music.
Speaker 3: Same with Glastonbury, Like playing that is really like finally
Speaker 3: having an actual set of Glastonbury's really help the understanding
Speaker 3: in the wider family and friends, people from school, you know, yeah, do.
Speaker 2: You need it properly?
Speaker 3: Then? Yeah, I don't know why. That's still it's like
Speaker 3: one thing that still bothers me.
Speaker 2: But with the TV stuff, is there any shows that
Speaker 2: are still out there that you would absolutely have to do?
Speaker 2: Are you not going to stop until you are like
Speaker 2: a Judge or X Factor?
Speaker 1: It would be brilliant bothers me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love to do it all, but I'm aware
Speaker 3: that I'm like not famous enough right, But as soon
Speaker 3: as if I slightly. Was I clean up on them
Speaker 3: more eight out of ten cats? Yes, I'd love to
Speaker 3: do Jiles Holland That's another annoying milestone, isn't it. But
Speaker 3: years have been like maybe they really like you, and
Speaker 3: then it didn't happen, So psychologically I have to let
Speaker 3: go of that kind of thing. And he's not on
Speaker 3: air at the minute, which has really helped because I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 3: I'll get on it anyway.
Speaker 1: It's not a failure if it's not on air.
Speaker 2: Surely that's on the cards, though they need.
Speaker 1: To make you think that.
Speaker 3: But this is my whole career has always felt a
Speaker 3: bit like not quite so. But I'm making my peace
Speaker 3: with that now as a mature woman in the industry.
Speaker 3: I'm proud of what I do. I would like to
Speaker 3: be making it on.
Speaker 2: What I'm telling you, though at some point maybe this Sunday,
Speaker 2: you never know.
Speaker 1: Maybe.
Speaker 2: So this is the great escape for people again that
Speaker 2: maybe aren't sure of what that is. If you're listening,
Speaker 2: if you're not here. It's a new bands festival. Basically,
Speaker 2: people come to check out the hot new things you've
Speaker 2: been to the greatest shape before, presumably as part in
Speaker 2: your kind of old life as you put it with
Speaker 2: slow Club. But what is it like? Presumably the last
Speaker 2: sort of year eighteen months has been had a few
Speaker 2: experiences where you are because of this new project going
Speaker 2: back and doing the new new artist thing, if that
Speaker 2: makes sense. So what is that like?
Speaker 3: It's been so weird and I don't think I realized
Speaker 3: that that would be happening. So the first few we did,
Speaker 3: like a new band's night at the Night and Day
Speaker 3: Cafe in Manchester, which is one of the first places
Speaker 3: outside of Sheffield. Me and Charles played and I was like,
Speaker 3: what's in in there? And with my new band we're
Speaker 3: all like dressed up and I was like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: a new band night. And the dressing room we were
Speaker 3: sharing with all these like genuinely like eighteen year old
Speaker 3: boys with like that, we're really excited, and they had
Speaker 3: their own mini speakers and they were playing like surge
Speaker 3: games bugs through the speakers.
Speaker 1: I was like, I hate all of you.
Speaker 3: And then I realized, no, You've got to suck all
Speaker 3: this up because I'm like, it's not an ego. I
Speaker 3: haven't got big ego. It's more like my life had
Speaker 3: just that that wasn't it anymore. So I was just
Speaker 3: really shocked. I was like, why are all these boys here? Why? Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it was quite really funny for me to realize
Speaker 3: I've gone back to the start.
Speaker 1: And I struggled with it at.
Speaker 3: First and thought I'm too old or I feel really
Speaker 3: worried that I've gone back in time and what if
Speaker 3: it don't work?
Speaker 1: What if it don't work?
Speaker 3: But I've enjoyed it, it turns out, because it's going
Speaker 3: back to being like I sort of used to feel
Speaker 3: like this is really early slow club days, Like when
Speaker 3: we do like open mics, I'd be like, I know
Speaker 3: it will be like at least interesting on that bill.
Speaker 3: I mean, this won't come across well on the radio,
Speaker 3: but I do think I just know, like we'll be
Speaker 3: really good on these new band things.
Speaker 1: So I've enjoyed the like, yeah, you wait till we
Speaker 1: get on feeling.
Speaker 2: With competitiveness of it a little bit, which is bad.
Speaker 3: But and also like I've just done it for so
Speaker 3: long that I don't feel the anxieties and the stresses
Speaker 3: that knew like I did when I first started. So
Speaker 3: it's just a joy to perform now in no matter
Speaker 3: where it is.
Speaker 1: Really before we.
Speaker 2: Talk a bit about compliments please, which is the DeBie
Speaker 2: Amley release theory this year? In my research for Chatting
Speaker 2: to Today, I watched the Slow Club documentary came out
Speaker 2: at the end of last year.
Speaker 1: How to get that?
Speaker 2: It's got a secret email, didn't I? It's been screened
Speaker 2: at a couple of places, isn't it. It's going to
Speaker 2: be shown in a few different places for people to
Speaker 2: see possibly later this year, scored down most Brilliant Friends
Speaker 2: and essentially it's a kind of hour long movie documentary
Speaker 2: that explores or charts sort of the final Slow Club tour,
Speaker 2: doesn't it? And the fair to say, the kind of
Speaker 2: last chapter of that band kind of things As you
Speaker 2: were yourself and Charles were kind of like that project
Speaker 2: was sort of coming to a close. Well yeah, well
Speaker 2: you tell people about it. What do you think of
Speaker 2: the documentary?
Speaker 3: I wish I could quite remember how it was born,
Speaker 3: but basically Peers Dennis, who made it, it's like a
Speaker 3: close friend of both Charles and I, and he'd made
Speaker 3: a few videos for us, and I don't I think
Speaker 3: I think it was me. I was like, we should
Speaker 3: have someone come on on this last tour, not because
Speaker 3: I particularly thought it was going to be the last
Speaker 3: tour but I don't know why. Maybe I don't know,
Speaker 3: and our our manager sort of said yeah, and it
Speaker 3: was meant to just be like a tour doc, but
Speaker 3: it has turned into this really poignant I think it's
Speaker 3: kind of amazing how well he managed to make it balanced,
Speaker 3: and it's about friendship really and.
Speaker 1: And letting go of something.
Speaker 3: Rather than like about being on tour, which I think
Speaker 3: it's far more interesting to watch. The whole thing is
Speaker 3: extremely emotional for me, as you can imagine, because Charles
Speaker 3: and I didn't talk much to each other, but for
Speaker 3: some reason, both in this film talk to the filmmaker
Speaker 3: every step of the way. We both were like independent,
Speaker 3: independently watching it and okaying it. So the whole time
Speaker 3: I was like, well, if he's okay with it, I'm
Speaker 3: okay with it. And it's just like this is such
Speaker 3: a weird. I mean, it's just stupid. We should just
Speaker 3: get drunk and talk. But but like from an art
Speaker 3: point perspective, I kept saying to Piers, like the stuff
Speaker 3: I find interesting is the stuff that's TMI or whatever.
Speaker 3: And I was like, if I look paint me badly,
Speaker 3: paint me honestly, like I I don't want something that's
Speaker 3: biased or glorifying me at all.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Charles said the same SOS.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh god, I'm like having this like
Speaker 3: Tracy esque, like yeah, it doesn't even.
Speaker 2: Real me and.
Speaker 3: And I don't think he would be comfortable with that angle.
Speaker 3: So for a while I was like, oh shit, but
Speaker 3: it is. It's as a piece of art. I'm like,
Speaker 3: it's really cool and brave and stuff, and I'm glad
Speaker 3: it exists. They screened it and then we had a
Speaker 3: Q and A and we were both there and that
Speaker 3: was one of the worst experiences of my life because
Speaker 3: there's so much tension, and some prick in the audience
Speaker 3: asked a question about that was sort of very kind
Speaker 3: to me and not very kind to Charles, and it
Speaker 3: was dreadful. And I was like Michael McIntyre at the Palladium, like.
Speaker 1: A Wallyly no joking jog joke.
Speaker 3: Which is the sort of microcosm of the whole band. Really,
Speaker 3: it's like, we don't we haven't worked. Our relationship has
Speaker 3: been tough because we don't talk, and instead of that
Speaker 3: we both go harbord aller And it was just yeah,
Speaker 3: it's on YouTube, and I sort of hate watched it
Speaker 3: the other day and thought, oh god, well, my hair
Speaker 3: looks really nice.
Speaker 1: I just have my roots done, so that was good.
Speaker 2: Use the words honest and poignan, and it is both
Speaker 2: those things. It's kind of the opposite of, you know,
Speaker 2: these incredibly stylized tool documentaries that people put out to
Speaker 2: kind of present the best versions of themselves, like if
Speaker 2: you go on if you watched like a well, a big,
Speaker 2: like a multi million bound pop stars kind of documentary,
Speaker 2: sometimes you're just kind of like, well, I'm not really
Speaker 2: quite sure what I'm actually learning about this artist. I'm
Speaker 2: just seeing this presentation and it all looks very slick
Speaker 2: and everything else, but it actually in sort of exploring
Speaker 2: the mundaneity of kind of of what a tour is.
Speaker 2: It's actually very moving, I felt. And it's like some
Speaker 2: moments in it that there's a bit where you're in
Speaker 2: the tour venually can't unlock the door, and it's really
Speaker 2: funny but nobody's laughing. But it's just like those were
Speaker 2: the things that your day would have been filled with
Speaker 2: when you were kind of the stuff that people effectively think, oh,
Speaker 2: that's too boring to go in there, or it was
Speaker 2: too mundane, it was too human. You've kept that's been
Speaker 2: kept in and that's actually what makes it special. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I definitely urge people to check it out. Was that
Speaker 2: the first time that you saw it and Childs saw
Speaker 2: it in the same room, that's okay, that's awkward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. Well. I first saw it.
Speaker 3: Peers was sort of because he's Peers is really sensitive
Speaker 3: and he and I are really close, so I knew
Speaker 3: that he would and he took it all really seriously
Speaker 3: and he sort of made sure me seeing it for
Speaker 3: the first time, I was like at his flat and
Speaker 3: he made it all nice. And I cried my eyes
Speaker 3: out watching it the first time because I just felt
Speaker 3: Number one, it was a long time since that time,
Speaker 3: and like my hair's all really long and natural, I
Speaker 3: feel like it and I was a different It felt
Speaker 3: like watching a different person because I was so crestfallen.
Speaker 3: I think about my career because and it was the
Speaker 3: mundanity and showing that like two people on.
Speaker 1: The outside like.
Speaker 3: We were a cool band who can film venues. It's
Speaker 3: like life must be great.
Speaker 1: What a dream?
Speaker 3: And it like for me, that wasn't the dream and
Speaker 3: it certainly wasn't the dream anymore, and I hadn't felt
Speaker 3: really frustrated because I did not know how to go
Speaker 3: to the next level. And I had been made to
Speaker 3: feel for a long time that that was a really
Speaker 3: like shitty quality about me, that I was ambitious and
Speaker 3: that was not the point, and that made me not
Speaker 3: a real musician or a true artist. So then the
Speaker 3: documentary has a lot of me being like I want
Speaker 3: to be on Jules holland, like I want to be
Speaker 3: at least, you know, in the long list, and that's
Speaker 3: sort of desperate and sad and really not cool. But
Speaker 3: like I mean, I just quit trying to keep up
Speaker 3: any pretense. And the thing about like doing self esteem
Speaker 3: has been that like what if nothing changes, and nothing
Speaker 3: might change, I might not play any bigger venues, I
Speaker 3: might not get on any of these things, none.
Speaker 1: Of these big exciting benchmarks. They might not happen to me.
Speaker 3: But at least, like day and day out, I could
Speaker 3: be surrounded by like minded people. I could be at
Speaker 3: least if I'm playing like Cardiff Barfly. Yeah again, and
Speaker 3: it stinks there's no dressing room, but at least I
Speaker 3: can be on the stage dancing now and in an
Speaker 3: outfit I've designed and we're all caked in makeup and
Speaker 3: we're all having a great time, and it's all I'm
Speaker 3: making my own little arena shows. Just more that genuinely
Speaker 3: was like, I just need to change what it's like
Speaker 3: day to day so it's not so because it would
Speaker 3: be like a miserable day. And then it was getting
Speaker 3: that I felt miserable on stage, like just looking forward
Speaker 3: to the little bits I've got to sing on my
Speaker 3: own maybe or and just logic prevailed eventually and I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm really unhappy and it's not getting any better.
Speaker 2: So self esteem then yeah, go on. Then yeah, when
Speaker 2: it sounds like obviously we got to hear the Debi
Speaker 2: album earlier this year, but it sounds like the seeds
Speaker 2: of that kind of nucleus of that would have gone
Speaker 2: back quite away. I mean that the documentary we've just
Speaker 2: been talking about is around the period or twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: something like that, a few years ago. Maybe Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think these ambitions you were talking about, and like
Speaker 2: the desire to want to do something that was more
Speaker 2: personally fulfilling, how far back did that go? Because even
Speaker 2: if you didn't know it was going to be called
Speaker 2: self esteem and it was going to be you know,
Speaker 2: more of a pop music thing, et cetera. Did you
Speaker 2: always dream of that? Did that even exist before you
Speaker 2: did Slow Club?
Speaker 1: I think like, if you ask me honestly, I was
Speaker 1: like eighteen, what do I want to do? It would
Speaker 1: have been this.
Speaker 3: But I was in Sheffield and I was like the
Speaker 3: indie girl at school and and like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: like addled with this like obsession with being cool.
Speaker 1: And also what was like available.
Speaker 3: To me was like being in bands with boys with
Speaker 3: guitars in town like this kind of thing. And also
Speaker 3: pop music back then was still like it's it's become
Speaker 3: the most exciting genre and it doesn't between Indian pop
Speaker 3: doesn't exist anymore. And I do think like those lines
Speaker 3: are just blurred and gone and wheel of Ariana Grande
Speaker 3: and that's fine now, But back then, like I just
Speaker 3: kept it hidden how much I loved Destiny's Child and stuff.
Speaker 3: And I'm annoyingly quite like like I can write on
Speaker 3: spec kind of thing. If you say, write me a
Speaker 3: folks so I can write a folk song, or I
Speaker 3: can look like a folk singer or so. It was
Speaker 3: a bit adaptable as man and libra. So I just
Speaker 3: really and that was it. I just played and played
Speaker 3: a role early on that I could. I liked it
Speaker 3: not I loved.
Speaker 1: Bright eyes and stuff like that till in the wall.
Speaker 3: Actually they helped because they were at least in like
Speaker 3: daft clothes and dancing a bit.
Speaker 2: With that in mind slightly kind of different tangent of
Speaker 2: a question, but with things like writing for other people,
Speaker 2: like writing pop writing camps and things like that, or
Speaker 2: collaborating with like would you collaborate with like an EDM
Speaker 2: DJ and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, if Calvin Harris
Speaker 2: give you a call, you do it.
Speaker 1: I would love that.
Speaker 3: There was a I had an electro boyfriend right in
Speaker 3: two thousand and like nine ten, and it was before
Speaker 3: Calvin Harris was a big deal. And when he don't me,
Speaker 3: we were like who can I go out with? Who
Speaker 3: can I go out there? That's like beat him or
Speaker 3: like Calvin Harris. It never happened. Yeah, I love all that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've got a bit of a feeling that
Speaker 3: I need to keep self esteem sonically, like exactly what
Speaker 3: is in my mind? But I've got nothing to lose,
Speaker 3: so I could go and feature or on other things.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean like she's gone dance or something like.
Speaker 3: I feel like self esteem can stay as this like
Speaker 3: ankornw and I've sort of improved what it is i'd
Speaker 3: love to My dream job is writing for Little Mix.
Speaker 1: Definitely.
Speaker 2: That doesn't feel like unachievable anyway, right, Well, I hope not.
Speaker 1: I want that Little.
Speaker 2: Mikes notoriously listen to our podcast, So there you go. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, I said to the label quite a few times,
Speaker 3: I don't know if it happened. Can we make sure
Speaker 3: my record gets to I don't know if it ever did.
Speaker 1: But no, I love all that.
Speaker 3: In Solcub I sort of couldn't explore writing for other
Speaker 3: people because if someone wanted to write with club, it
Speaker 3: was two of us and it's like, oh, we never
Speaker 3: sort of did it because it was just like another
Speaker 3: thing to sort of not agree on. So now I'm
Speaker 3: a solo artist, opportunities are coming up where I can say, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm doing loads of theater things because I love all that,
Speaker 3: and it's like really changed everything.
Speaker 1: That's great?
Speaker 2: Is it put you off ever being not necessarily in
Speaker 2: that band, but a band again.
Speaker 3: I don't think I want to not be the boss
Speaker 3: man again.
Speaker 2: Been to the top of the tree.
Speaker 3: Unless like I could do a project like a collaboration,
Speaker 3: one off thing with like you know Rihanna. Sure, but
Speaker 3: I hope. I'm hoping I can be boss Man forever. Also,
Speaker 3: there's a I'd love to do backing vocals for either
Speaker 3: Rod Stewart or Peter Gabriel, so that they're the two gigs.
Speaker 1: I'll give it all up for.
Speaker 2: Do you like Rod Stewart?
Speaker 1: Why has something come out about.
Speaker 2: Him since we've been on air. No, I just I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't really like rodt it for some reason. I
Speaker 1: just really I can find by Rod Stewart. I don't
Speaker 1: know why Baby Jane and I saw. I used to
Speaker 1: thought I've seen him live a.
Speaker 2: Bit and how many times you've been seeing life.
Speaker 3: I feel like I've been like twice two like arenas,
Speaker 3: I don't know taking.
Speaker 2: A parent or a grandparent.
Speaker 1: It was with it like an ex's auntie. So maybe
Speaker 1: it's that.
Speaker 3: But no, there's melodically some of the Rod stew at
Speaker 3: work is quite exquisite. It's more Peter Gabriel's my main
Speaker 3: one because when I was a little girl, my dad.
Speaker 3: There's this there is this like filmed concert of his.
Speaker 3: I think it's called Brave New World or something like that,
Speaker 3: And it was this tour that he did with like
Speaker 3: props and staging and it's more.
Speaker 1: Really theatrical, and it's like tree grew out of this the.
Speaker 3: Stage and they dance and stuff and they've all got
Speaker 3: like hands free mics and so like eight year old
Speaker 3: me just used to be like, put the Peter Gabriel
Speaker 3: video on again and there's a girl in it who
Speaker 3: had like long black dress and Doc Martins and she
Speaker 3: sings other girl bits and that it's one of my
Speaker 3: first memories of like I want to do that.
Speaker 1: Like so its mini dream of.
Speaker 3: Doing that gig wondery if he if he stays alive
Speaker 3: and not canceled, if.
Speaker 2: Money was no object, what would your stadium stage show
Speaker 2: look like?
Speaker 3: Just huge and constantly interesting and something new happening a
Speaker 3: lot is it's more about that, Like I think you
Speaker 3: can get like a backdrop that's like wow, but it's
Speaker 3: the moving keeping it going.
Speaker 2: And would you come out on one of those rises
Speaker 2: in the middle of the stadium, in the middle of
Speaker 2: the crowd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm more interested in flying in. I would like that.
Speaker 3: I love all that daft stuff and the gig's boring,
Speaker 3: is my point. Like, so, I mean I've played enough
Speaker 3: of it and I've been bored. So I don't know
Speaker 3: about you guys, but so even in my little low
Speaker 3: budget world I'm in trying to make that happen. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm like, just keep it moving and interesting, even if
Speaker 3: that's like my live show properly puts people off and
Speaker 3: some people don't want that, but I'm just pleasing myself now.
Speaker 2: It's it sounds quite liberating any more fulfilling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great and I want to like put an
Speaker 3: up really like you can. My point is always, like
Speaker 3: I live like a I'm like Henry the Eighth, right,
Speaker 3: I just like eat a lot what I want and
Speaker 3: like I do what I want, kids who I want,
Speaker 3: and I just I want the live show to feel
Speaker 3: like that. There's like no reason not to do everything
Speaker 3: you want until I don't know, you have kids and
Speaker 3: you're married or you've got responsibilities.
Speaker 2: So compliments please with the debut album. Just tell me
Speaker 2: a little bit about the sort of beginnings of that.
Speaker 2: You were living in London and then you moved to
Speaker 2: Margate and to start working on that material or what
Speaker 2: was the experience of living in Margate, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, I it was great. It was I just had
Speaker 1: to leave for the sake of my heart blood pressure.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I was too exciting.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know why I did it. I went.
Speaker 3: I'd always been in London because Charles's wife is in London,
Speaker 3: so he'd always sort of lived there, and I'd been
Speaker 3: like flat to flat to flat, trying to sort of
Speaker 3: survive financially. So every time we went on tour for
Speaker 3: a while or like the money was like petering out.
Speaker 1: I'd have to move back to my parents.
Speaker 3: I was like that was sort of looking likely again,
Speaker 3: and for a long time, there's no need for me
Speaker 3: to be in London. So I got a really like
Speaker 3: annoyed relationship with it, and I'd gone back up north
Speaker 3: and then got like a tax rebate, and it was
Speaker 3: a sort of situation where I was like, oh, good
Speaker 3: bye this flat in Margate when everyone's doing it, and
Speaker 3: my manager at the time was there and he'd bought
Speaker 3: like quite a few properties and it was all cool
Speaker 3: and up and coming, and I thought I'd be a painter,
Speaker 3: so I just did that. I was like a sort
Speaker 3: of midlife crisis sort of move. And it was great
Speaker 3: and it's beautiful, but it's just a bit too soon
Speaker 3: for me to be there, I think so. But what
Speaker 3: it did do is afford me the It was a
Speaker 3: huge risk sort of saying I'm not going to do
Speaker 3: any most local gigs.
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this.
Speaker 3: It took ages, and I like ruined my new manager's life.
Speaker 3: I've been like, when like, can we put this out?
Speaker 1: Can we do this? It's like no, you have to
Speaker 1: build it. And took ages.
Speaker 3: So I get a record deal and didn't know if
Speaker 3: that would happen, and so I was just going completely
Speaker 3: coco and local in Margate, which is not the place
Speaker 3: to feel like that because there's too many like dafh
Speaker 3: things you can do there. So it's just a sort
Speaker 3: of odd time. But thank god, it all sort of
Speaker 3: came together. It made sense because we had started working
Speaker 3: with a producer there and it turned out like he
Speaker 3: was the one that I wanted to make their record with.
Speaker 3: So it all just came together and so as soon
Speaker 3: as it could be a place to really work.
Speaker 1: From, it was a good good place to be.
Speaker 3: But I mean back up quickly because we were doing
Speaker 3: loads of press and stuff, and now I'm back into
Speaker 3: the London life and it's the first time I lived
Speaker 3: in London, and it's for me, like and it serves me.
Speaker 3: And therefore I'm not angry about how much it costs
Speaker 3: because I'm like, this is great. Every day I'm busy
Speaker 3: doing exciting stuff and the album's cool.
Speaker 2: Compliments please, did you feel like have people got it
Speaker 2: and people understood it in the way you wanted.
Speaker 1: The album or the title or both?
Speaker 2: I suppose start with the title. Has anybody giving you
Speaker 2: any nice compliments about compliments? Please? Of course they have
Speaker 2: the best ones.
Speaker 1: No, I can't.
Speaker 3: I thought it was really funny to call it that,
Speaker 3: and I think hopefully if you know, you know kind
Speaker 3: of thing that's like, you're the same with loads of
Speaker 3: my things I think are funny, Like if you don't
Speaker 3: get it, it's harmless, but if you do, it's like.
Speaker 1: Like, that's funny. Yeah, we had no idea what would happen.
Speaker 1: I knew.
Speaker 3: I was really proud of it, and I loved it,
Speaker 3: and I loved how sort of long. It was an
Speaker 3: epic and it flowed and I got all the different
Speaker 3: bits of the spoken words stuff, and aesthetically it was
Speaker 3: all coming together, and so I was just like I
Speaker 3: just for the first time in my life maybe was
Speaker 3: going to bed going like I know I've done enough,
Speaker 3: and there's like no stone left on turned with this
Speaker 3: for me. So if you hate it, I don't think
Speaker 3: that will hurt in the same way as like it's
Speaker 3: localub albums, because it was a collaboration.
Speaker 1: Really proud of them all and I love them all, but.
Speaker 3: There's things on it that were compromises that I wouldn't
Speaker 3: have ideally had on it, and that is sort of
Speaker 3: opens up a weird little cavern in you.
Speaker 1: Where the bad stuff can get in. I was like
Speaker 1: I felt a bit bulletproof of it.
Speaker 3: So the fact that people really liked it, I was
Speaker 3: like half really relieved and half like, yeah, ORMs, which
Speaker 3: is bad, but I don't care.
Speaker 2: And it's brought along some great opportunities obviously Sunday brunch.
Speaker 1: Big brunch opportunity coming up, Yes.
Speaker 2: Brunch opportunity. Other things that are coming up this year.
Speaker 2: You already mentioned Glastonbury. You're looking forward to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm doing four sets at it because I've got
Speaker 3: a camp okay, and I just thought it's best for
Speaker 3: if the more gigs are play the less like totally
Speaker 3: totally wasted.
Speaker 2: I'll get so if you've done the sort of full
Speaker 2: because Glastonbury is one of those ones where you just
Speaker 2: got to embrace it and sort of do the Glastonberer experience.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well I've never I've only been once.
Speaker 3: I sang in the moon Landings band and so they
Speaker 3: did parks, they did Twelve Midday and my only memory
Speaker 3: is a pint of red wine before I went on.
Speaker 3: So that wasn't a nice experience it turned out.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm gonna have fun. And then it's same again,
Speaker 1: like it's.
Speaker 3: Going with like five of my besties now, so it's
Speaker 3: everything's a different experience because if I'm.
Speaker 1: Not lonely, I'm like, it's it's a fun vibe. So
Speaker 1: far asked me this in a year and I'll be like.
Speaker 3: I hate this, but I'm doing loads of festivals and
Speaker 3: this is another cool thing. Every year it would be like,
Speaker 3: how are we getting any festival slots? And we'd get
Speaker 3: a few, we'd get a handful every year, but they'd
Speaker 3: be like, you just release the.
Speaker 1: Album at the wrong time. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I'd be like, I don't know what that means and
Speaker 3: the fat I'm dead busy and I releasing the album
Speaker 3: in March is a bad time for festivals. But I'm like,
Speaker 3: I always knew that was bullshit, So I'm really proud
Speaker 3: that I've got a very got loads.
Speaker 1: I've got loads on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent. You do some shows with Florence the Machine.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is that Florence's a fan of yours? Presly?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah it was.
Speaker 3: It was really cool thing happened where she put my
Speaker 3: album on our Instagram story and I got like twenty
Speaker 3: text messages off people and we just did DM doing
Speaker 3: something that's really kind of thank you. It's funny though,
Speaker 3: because I was on the radio one thing and Jackson
Speaker 3: was like, this must be a dream come true, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, I think I'm older than that, and it
Speaker 3: was like she must be a big inspiration. It was
Speaker 3: like I was doing it like seven years before she
Speaker 3: had her single. I was like, it's not like it's
Speaker 3: great and I'm so excited and I'm so like in
Speaker 3: awe of her success and not everything she's made, But
Speaker 3: I'm not, like, I don't know how to say this.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3: The opportunity it's not that it's like, oh my god, wow,
Speaker 3: I'm like this, but it does feel brilliant. I don't
Speaker 3: think i'd be excited bout anything apart from Peter Gabriel,
Speaker 3: but no, I'm really in and I'm so excited. It's
Speaker 3: so kind of and she's been so like she tweeted
Speaker 3: the album link. I'm like, that is like, we can't
Speaker 3: pay for that. You're kind of like press thank you,
Speaker 3: Like this is huge, and I don't understand people being
Speaker 3: that kind to me and lessening when I have sex
Speaker 3: with me. So it's all been like quite lovely unless
Speaker 3: she wants to have sex with me, which is also fine.
Speaker 3: But I'm really excited, going fluzzled off when any Florence
Speaker 3: news comes in. But I'm excited to play to like
Speaker 3: a massive crowd of people that like females strong pop music.
Speaker 1: I feel like it might go down.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, going back to that point of being like
Speaker 2: welcoming any new opportunity, like it's gonna be a big stage,
Speaker 2: it's going to be thirty thou people, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 3: Slow Club did a month and Sun's toler in America,
Speaker 3: which still is one of my favorite. Well, same again,
Speaker 3: We're like, but then by the end of every gig,
Speaker 3: I'd be like, ah, will will like having the time
Speaker 3: of my life because I was like.
Speaker 1: I love popular stuff, it's brilliant.
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping, you know, do some stuff with self
Speaker 2: esteem in America.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope, sir, I've been I asked you that.
Speaker 3: My manager swiftly not that question this morning on the train.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get it to come out there. We
Speaker 3: were told that single solo females don't work, So females
Speaker 3: don't work in America at the moment.
Speaker 2: A parently that's not true, is it.
Speaker 3: I mean, look at Aura, she goes to the met.
Speaker 2: You need to just prove there's another like hypothesis music industry,
Speaker 2: like if you need to just bust I hope.
Speaker 1: So I'd love to.
Speaker 3: But also, Sow Club went a lot, and we did
Speaker 3: all those mad huge tours, ten hour drives to not
Speaker 3: even a gig two a days in and then ten
Speaker 3: more hours to the next king. And I did that
Speaker 3: real like punk like back of the Van American tour
Speaker 3: quite a few times.
Speaker 1: So I'm not.
Speaker 3: Desperate to do that. I would love to go and
Speaker 3: play and see what happens and eat the food out there,
Speaker 3: really nice food everywhere, even though like Tgo Fridays is nice,
Speaker 3: you know what their crap restaurants is like deliced. But
Speaker 3: that's not the point. I would like the album to
Speaker 3: come out there, if anyone's listening.
Speaker 2: When you hear that stuff, though, when somebody comes back
Speaker 2: to you and says, oh, female Solar artists don't work
Speaker 2: here at the moment, do you obviously that's completely rubbish,
Speaker 2: Like does it does it make you angry? Do you
Speaker 2: just kind of like have you heard that so many
Speaker 2: times you just kind of like, ah, oh well, or
Speaker 2: like just how does that make you feel?
Speaker 3: It just feels stupid and a lot sort of laughable,
Speaker 3: And I like telling people that that's what I've been
Speaker 3: told and it just spares me on a bit to
Speaker 3: be But then I do have this like real fear
Speaker 3: that there's how do I say it, Like, no matter
Speaker 3: how much like I can defy like what people expect
Speaker 3: of me or what people expect women, there is still
Speaker 3: this like impenetrable like white men at the top of
Speaker 3: the desk thing. But I'm worried I'll not live to
Speaker 3: see the end of But I mean, maybe I'm getting
Speaker 3: too deep about it, but I could definitely play, you know,
Speaker 3: a small gig in New York.
Speaker 1: Come on.
Speaker 3: It's like, also, I don't know, I have to let
Speaker 3: go of a lot of that because it makes me
Speaker 3: too angry, and the idea of success is I've got
Speaker 3: to let go of that as well. It's just more
Speaker 3: like I have to bring it back to me and
Speaker 3: what am I enjoying and to people like what I'm
Speaker 3: doing enough for me to be able to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll go from there.
Speaker 3: But I go through phases of like I'm going to
Speaker 3: smash this down and change this, and then I go, nah,
Speaker 3: no mind.
Speaker 2: It sounds like we talked a little bit about just
Speaker 2: like how it's been a change of sort of pace,
Speaker 2: change of experience doing self esteem compared to what you've
Speaker 2: done in the past already as this to a certain extent,
Speaker 2: but the idea that you're happy you're doing it like
Speaker 2: it feels, you know, has it just been something that's
Speaker 2: been more satisfying to like take this bath, And as
Speaker 2: you said before, it maybe it did feel like a risk.
Speaker 2: And there was a certain amount of anxiety that goes
Speaker 2: along with presenting yourself as a solo artist, as a
Speaker 2: whole new thing. You probably did concern You're not worried
Speaker 2: you before we did it? Are you at the happiest
Speaker 2: place now knowing like I did it? It's been successful,
Speaker 2: We're doing all these new things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's It's truly changed my life, just
Speaker 3: being able to prove that I could, like I'm good
Speaker 3: enough from my ideas are good enough alone, And like
Speaker 3: there was a ton of like personal mental health shit
Speaker 3: that I'm like so much of that I think was
Speaker 3: because it I didn't realize how unhealthy not expressing myself
Speaker 3: truly was for me. So even like it started because
Speaker 3: I did. I had an Instagram account that I would
Speaker 3: I called self esteem, and I was putting just lyrics,
Speaker 3: like just sentences on and I remember that even being
Speaker 3: like such a relief and it's nobody's fault, Like I'm
Speaker 3: not blaming the band or the label or management or anything,
Speaker 3: but like it was just all I just didn't notice
Speaker 3: that there could be something else for me, or it
Speaker 3: didn't feel like I could ever do it. I think
Speaker 3: I got to a point was like I've got to
Speaker 3: at least try, because I can't cope if I don't
Speaker 3: kind of thing, and I'm a real glass half empty
Speaker 3: person and was like, no one will like it and
Speaker 3: no one will care, and the main thing was everyone's
Speaker 3: going to laugh at me loads.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how I did it. I think
Speaker 1: I just persevered.
Speaker 3: And RuPaul's drag Race, like, honestly, watching that made me
Speaker 3: go like, this is Almos just so daft and all
Speaker 3: these people just work so hard and there's no right
Speaker 3: or wrong with with a lot of it, and that
Speaker 3: really helped. I was just like I realized I was
Speaker 3: living my life worrying about what it was like this
Speaker 3: metaphorical table and the people sat around that table. I
Speaker 3: was so worried what they'd think about what and how
Speaker 3: I knew what they'd say about me and how they'd
Speaker 3: slag it off and how they critique it. And I
Speaker 3: just thought like, what what if that table wasn't in
Speaker 3: the restaurant? I really like I had to visualize it
Speaker 3: like that and go, well, I only realized how far
Speaker 3: I've come when I like, if a friend says something like,
Speaker 3: oh I can't do that because it looks like this,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, that wouldn't occur to me anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's years of trying, really hard to let go
Speaker 1: of that chronic.
Speaker 3: Embarrassment of myself, and there's still plenty of it, so
Speaker 3: don't worry.
Speaker 1: But it's a happy place. And then and the thing about.
Speaker 3: The show and being able to know, like like tonight,
Speaker 3: I'll come off stage and I'll have broke us wet
Speaker 3: and I'll feel like I performed and I will be
Speaker 3: in the moment, and then really cool things happen where
Speaker 3: I just want, I do, really want to just go
Speaker 3: home after gigs now, Whereas before I'd be like, let's
Speaker 3: get as drunk as possible because I need and socialized,
Speaker 3: desperately socializing after gigs because I don't think I felt
Speaker 3: represented on the stage. And now I'm like, I've done
Speaker 3: You've seen me, I've done it. I can go home now.
Speaker 3: I've not got so much limo literally, well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, straight out.
Speaker 3: I really wanted a limo the album release day and
Speaker 3: I really wanted to and we did talk about it,
Speaker 3: but it didn't end up happening.
Speaker 2: Should arrive tonight, since we're buy the seaside, you should
Speaker 2: arrive by a speedboat. Yes, you do that once.
Speaker 3: That's the thing you can do that. It's my Henry
Speaker 3: the Eighth theory. It's like, within reason, you can just
Speaker 3: do anything you want. And in the day I could
Speaker 3: save up for a Limo. After tonight, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to do there. We'll save it for I'm doing Brixton
Speaker 3: Electric in October, so that's a Limo one in it.
Speaker 2: Midnight Chats is a Loud and Quiet podcast. Music courtesy
Speaker 2: of gold Panda. Search Midnight Chats on iTunes for more
Speaker 2: episodes and to subscribe. For more information, visit Loud and
Speaker 2: Quiet dot com.