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Speaker 1: On this episode of news World. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: a remarkable person, someone I've really come to admire. Jeff Rowe,

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Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of Axiom Strategies, a firm specializing

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Speaker 1: in strategic consulting, direct voter contact, and research services for congressional, senatorial,

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Speaker 1: and statewide campaigns. Axiom was founded in Kansas City, Missouri,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five. Jeff is best known for

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Speaker 1: his dated driven approach to politics, as well as his

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Speaker 1: role as a senior strategist and campaign manager for Ted

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Speaker 1: Cruz's two sixteen run for president. He formerly served as

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Speaker 1: chief of staff, campaign manager, and aide to Representative Sam Graves.

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Speaker 1: Axium has helped elect seventy four Congressmen, eight senators, six governors.

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Speaker 1: His latest victory includes the election of Glen Yunkin for

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Speaker 1: governor Virginia. And I have to say that I talked

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Speaker 1: with Jeff often on all through the campaign. I watched

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Speaker 1: how they worked, how they evolved, and it was extraordinarily impressive.

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Speaker 1: And we had a perfect combination of a really really

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Speaker 1: smart candidate and a really really smart advisor, and the

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Speaker 1: two of them changed history in ways we're going to

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Speaker 1: explore in this podcast. Jeff, thank you for joining Mellow.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me before we dive into the Juncan

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Speaker 1: McCaulay phrase. As you'll remember when we first started chatting,

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Speaker 1: I'm intrigued with your whole background because it's fascinating. How

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Speaker 1: did you get into politics? My congressman at the time

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Speaker 1: growing up, Tom Coleman in Missouri's sixth Congressional District, afforded

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Speaker 1: me a nomination to a military academy, and I joined

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Speaker 1: the military at seventeen and had gone to Fort Sill,

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma to be a thirteen Bravo cannon cocker, and i'd

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Speaker 1: met him during the process of getting a nomination to

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Speaker 1: go to West Point. And so my grandmother was We're

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Speaker 1: all from Lynn County, Brookfield, Missouri, and we are family

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Speaker 1: raised Chester White hogs. Politics was the only thing dirtier

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Speaker 1: that I could find than raising hogs. And so she

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Speaker 1: was a Republican Women's Central Committee member and she took

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Speaker 1: me to fundraisers as early as I can remember, and

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Speaker 1: she always preached to me that the principles of being

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Speaker 1: involved in politics day to day. And then I got

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Speaker 1: to meet politicians kind of growing up and completed my service,

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Speaker 1: went overseas for a few months and came back and

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Speaker 1: finished up school with a small school in northwest Missouri,

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Speaker 1: and jumped in and started working on campaigns every other

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Speaker 1: semester in school. And I had the good fortune of

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Speaker 1: graduating in an election year, one that you, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you may remember. In nineteen ninety four. We won that

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Speaker 1: year Sam Graves and I he was running for state

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Speaker 1: Senate at the time, and we literally broke the take

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Speaker 1: Flying upside down. We listened to it so often in

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Speaker 1: the car that we eventually broke it. But we won

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Speaker 1: that year. We thought we were geniuses, but we then

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Speaker 1: realized everybody won that year because of the Contract for America.

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Speaker 1: And I went to Jefferson City, Missouri as a led

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Speaker 1: slave aide, and then he ran for Congress in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and we won what at that time was one

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Speaker 1: of the number one races in the country. And I

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Speaker 1: went to DC in two thousand and then left DC

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five and started my consulting company.

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Speaker 1: But in between you also, if I remember correctly, you

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Speaker 1: helped the Missouri Republicans win the General Assembly for the

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Speaker 1: first time in fifty years. We did. Sam's dissension to Congress,

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Speaker 1: left his seat open, and a lieutenant governor in a

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Speaker 1: neighboring district was a Democrat had left that seat open,

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Speaker 1: and so I ran both races and we won. We

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Speaker 1: swept both of them in two thousand and one, and

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Speaker 1: that brought us into the Senate majority for the first time.

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Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and two we were able

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Speaker 1: to take the House majority for the first time and

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Speaker 1: inaugurated Katherine Hannaway as the House Speaker for the first

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Speaker 1: time in half a century, and really ushered in a

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Speaker 1: new majority which has become, you know, at least to

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Speaker 1: this day, permanent majority for Republicans in Missouri. So you

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Speaker 1: decided in two thousand and five to found Axiom Strategies,

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Speaker 1: which has become really a remarkable company. Tell us what

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Speaker 1: you're thinking was when you created Action and the fact

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Speaker 1: that you based it in Kansas City, well two things.

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Speaker 1: Nobody my family hadn't really had their own company. But

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Speaker 1: I was given his speech on Sam's behalf at a

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Speaker 1: railroad crossing and at grade crossing, and he'd gotten some

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Speaker 1: money for the at grade signals to come down. And

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Speaker 1: my speaking slot was two fifteen to two nineteen, and

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Speaker 1: I get up to read the letter from Sam. I

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Speaker 1: was stowing the money that kid Bond and he had acquired,

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Speaker 1: and at two fifty and the train came barreling through,

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Speaker 1: and I got done rearing my letter, and I walked

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Speaker 1: off the stage and I went over to the host

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Speaker 1: and I said, do I need to read that again?

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Speaker 1: Because I don't think they heard of because the trainer

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Speaker 1: was crossing through. And she said, no, you were right

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Speaker 1: on time. And so I thought, probably anybody could do

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Speaker 1: this job. And I called Sam on the way home

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Speaker 1: and I said, I think we probably need to make

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Speaker 1: a change. I should probably do campaigns was what I

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Speaker 1: love to do, and I could still be part of

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Speaker 1: your effort. So that day I wrote my resignation letter,

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Speaker 1: and I post data ninety days and filled my slot

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Speaker 1: and started my company, and ninety five percent of my

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Speaker 1: clients were within ninety miles and just tried to make

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Speaker 1: a go of it. A lot of close friends of

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Speaker 1: mine have been successful in business. So I eventually wrote

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Speaker 1: a business plan, and the business plan was to elect congressman.

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Speaker 1: I had helped just on the edges of Sam's race

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Speaker 1: and a couple other races, so I had three congressmen

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Speaker 1: who I went into it and business model called for

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Speaker 1: me to help to elect twenty I thought that I

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Speaker 1: really would have made it at that point, and so

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Speaker 1: we've just focused on that and we've built out just

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Speaker 1: really kind of Big twelve if you old football. The

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Speaker 1: Big twelve conference was what our focus was. And now

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Speaker 1: we go coast to coast and now we have four

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen employees, not that I have to count

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Speaker 1: once a month or anything, but we've built up quite

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Speaker 1: at a shop and have elected a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: and have been blessed to not only do those, but

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Speaker 1: then those folks run for Senate and run for governor

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Speaker 1: and build out quite an operation out of that. But

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Speaker 1: the focus was to run a campaign that's based on

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Speaker 1: data first, analytics and branding and narratives and try to

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Speaker 1: control the narrative of a campaign. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: you'll wake up on election day thinking, how do we

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Speaker 1: end up debating these topics when this is not why

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Speaker 1: we got in the race, this is not what the

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Speaker 1: campaign should have been about. And a lot of times

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Speaker 1: just to ebb and the flow of a campaign would

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Speaker 1: drift you way off course. And so we've built an

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Speaker 1: agency that really handles a lot of the different features

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Speaker 1: of a campaign, to try and control the narrative and

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Speaker 1: to keep our candidates in charge of their own message

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Speaker 1: instead of handing it off to the national press or

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Speaker 1: hand it off to the whims of the electorate. At

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Speaker 1: that moment, Kansi was kind of the big town for

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Speaker 1: me growing up. It was about an hour and a

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Speaker 1: half away from my hometown, and it was in Sam's

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Speaker 1: congressional district where I was chief of staff. So when

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Speaker 1: I would come back to Missouri, i'd typically come back

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Speaker 1: to Kansas City. I bought a home in Precinct number

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Speaker 1: eleven in Liberty, Missouri. Liberty, Missouri was the swing city

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Speaker 1: within Clay County, which is a swing county in the

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Speaker 1: swing district, which is a sixth district in the swing

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Speaker 1: state in those days of Missouri. And so I found

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Speaker 1: a house in the swing precinct in the swing city,

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Speaker 1: in the swing county, in the swing district of Missouri.

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Speaker 1: And I bought a house there and so set up

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Speaker 1: shop there. And I just wanted to really kind of

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Speaker 1: live among swing voters, if you can imagine that. Now,

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Speaker 1: I try to avoid swing voters as much like game.

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Speaker 1: But that's how I ended up in Kansas City, and

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Speaker 1: it was a really good launching place for that for

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Speaker 1: founding the company in two thousand and five, you pretty

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Speaker 1: rapidly found yourself in the two thousand and eight presidential

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Speaker 1: effort with Mike Huckabee. How did you end up with

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Speaker 1: Mike as a firm. We hosted every presidential candidate that

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Speaker 1: would come to Kansas City, and we would raise him

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars from our kind of friends and family.

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Speaker 1: And I just remember we had Giuliani through and Fred

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Speaker 1: Thompson through Romney everybody, and I met Mike Huckabee and

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Speaker 1: it just stuck. And I still loved Mike Huckabee, and

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Speaker 1: he was a very gracious guy. And Sarah his daughter,

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Speaker 1: and David his son, and the whole family was involved,

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Speaker 1: and so we really hit it off, and I decided

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Speaker 1: that day. We came back afterwards, and I'll just never

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Speaker 1: forget that event. He knew every single waiter, he knew

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Speaker 1: the cashier, he knew their name, and something about him

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Speaker 1: and there's just something kind of magical about Mike. And

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Speaker 1: so we decided the next day we were going to

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Speaker 1: go work for him. We didn't know what exactly that meant,

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Speaker 1: except it was probably going to be that we'd have

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Speaker 1: to do it for free, but Iowa was close by,

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Speaker 1: and so myself and several folks on our team went

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Speaker 1: to work for Mike the next day. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: long after that fundraiser that he started to become ascended

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Speaker 1: into polls due to his performance in the debates, and

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Speaker 1: he was pretty good with one liners, and he and

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Speaker 1: Romney were really battling. We kind of relocated Axiam's main

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Speaker 1: office and went to Iowa and worked pretty hard for

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Speaker 1: Mike and fortunate enough to win. And then I drove overnight,

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Speaker 1: left to Moying that night and drove straight to South

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Speaker 1: Carolina and another person and I had now worked with

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Speaker 1: me set up shop in South Carolina and then we

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Speaker 1: did essentially the SEC States. We went down from there

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Speaker 1: to Florida and our state chairman, a young fellow by

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Speaker 1: the name of Marco Rubio is our state chairman. He

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Speaker 1: found this office location we set up in Florida to

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Speaker 1: battle there, and we ended up seating the campaign in Texas,

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Speaker 1: So we got quite a run with Mike. So were

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Speaker 1: you surprise by McCain's ability to make a comeback after

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Speaker 1: he seemed like he was out of the race. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we saw Fred Thompson really help. Fred Thompson

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Speaker 1: stayed in the race. Really, Fred Thompson retrenched after his

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Speaker 1: loss to Tennessee, everybody went to New Hampshire. Obviously Mike

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Speaker 1: didn't have much of an opportunity in New Hampshire. But

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Speaker 1: we set up to fight in South Carolina and Fred

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Speaker 1: stayed in for his good friend McCain to help siphon

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Speaker 1: votes away from us in South Carolina, real turning point

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Speaker 1: in the race. I remember on election night it was

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Speaker 1: really close. It was snowing up in the north and

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Speaker 1: it was only raining John and Charleston, and so McCain

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Speaker 1: had enough votes and Thompson pulled just enough from us

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Speaker 1: to put McCain back in the lead and win the state.

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Speaker 1: And that was kind of the rebirth of McCain and Thompson.

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Speaker 1: They had their victory parties that night together. There was

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Speaker 1: a good move on their part to do that. And

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Speaker 1: so after that and momentums everything, as you know in

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Speaker 1: presidential politics, and we'd lost the big mow South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: We had to win, and after that we would have

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Speaker 1: a moment or two left in the campaign. But after

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Speaker 1: you lose momentum, in a campaign, it's tough to get

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Speaker 1: it back. Well. I learned a fair amount of that

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Speaker 1: in the twenty twelve cycle when you and I did

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Speaker 1: a little bit of work together, and if you had

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Speaker 1: first been a consultant to Rick Perry, who I admire enormously.

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Speaker 1: I think he's one of the most decent and remarkable

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Speaker 1: people in American government and politics. When he dropped out,

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Speaker 1: he endorsed me, which I was very grateful for, and

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Speaker 1: you ended up helping us, and that's when I learned

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Speaker 1: the power of sheer money Florida against Romney. Given the

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Speaker 1: scale of Romney's resources, we just couldn't make it. It

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Speaker 1: was fascinating. As you think back to twelve, what are

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Speaker 1: your lessons learned that you took on into other campaigns.

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Speaker 1: The lessons in twenty twelve is that, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the ground game of a campaign and your investment in

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Speaker 1: field is very valuable. But it's valuable up to a point.

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Speaker 1: It's about a field goal, if you will, it's worth

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Speaker 1: about three points in politics, and three points a lot

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Speaker 1: of times can win a game. But without the money

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Speaker 1: to get you up to within the field goal, it's

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Speaker 1: just a very difficult thing to overcome, particularly in big

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Speaker 1: states in the old days, which is in twelve there

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Speaker 1: are certain states that you could network politically and there's

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Speaker 1: other states that you just have to buy the airtime.

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Speaker 1: And I would think a lot of times in the

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Speaker 1: Peri campaign we would mix and match the wrong way.

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Speaker 1: We would try and buy New Hampshire airtime instead of

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Speaker 1: networking that state. We try and buy South Carolina instead

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Speaker 1: of working and now everybody works Iowa because you have

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Speaker 1: a year to build the infrastructure. But then you get

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Speaker 1: in those states which are just completely momentum states, and

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Speaker 1: when you put your streak of states together, you would

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Speaker 1: have no advertising sometimes and you would just win on

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Speaker 1: straight momentum, which is great, but you can't sustain that

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Speaker 1: without money and the ability to build a campaign that

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Speaker 1: can sustain itself. Save the money. And this is a

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Speaker 1: presidential level. This doesn't speak outside of presidential, but when

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Speaker 1: you have momentum in a presidential campaign, to save your

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Speaker 1: resources and invest in grounds so that when that momentum dissipates,

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Speaker 1: you can still carry on that momentum a bit with

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Speaker 1: paid and with field. That's a really critical exercise. As

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Speaker 1: you know, you go from five staff kind of staring

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Speaker 1: at each other in a rented office space somewhere to

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty people and huge overhead and all

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Speaker 1: kinds of money flying in the door, and then for

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Speaker 1: it to start to taper off, and how you manage

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Speaker 1: those resources. And that was a lesson I learned in

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Speaker 1: eight when Huckabee got hot and then we lost it,

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Speaker 1: and how fast that dries up. I learned it in

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Speaker 1: twelve when Ricks had his moment and then he said, hey, guys, everybody,

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Speaker 1: how to go to nuke. That's our chance to beat Romney, frankly.

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Speaker 1: And then I learned the same lesson with crews and sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when we got hot, we raised ninety three million dollars,

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Speaker 1: more than anyone had ever raised for a primary. And

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Speaker 1: then we started to falter and the money just immediately

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Speaker 1: dried up. And I'd rerun all those races and do

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Speaker 1: it a different way. But the allocation of resources whin

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Speaker 1: to scale, I'll never forget. Rick Perry in sixteen let

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Speaker 1: go seven staffers in Iowa. He had ten. He went

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Speaker 1: down to three. And I remember calling our Iowa guy

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know what I mean, people we

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Speaker 1: have up there working with you, right, And he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just me. And I said, yeah, that's the lesson here.

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Speaker 1: We need to stay small as long as we possibly

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Speaker 1: can to eventually let our operation catch up to the calendar.

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Speaker 1: And Rick started out with ten and he was blowing

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Speaker 1: and going, and then he had to let him go

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Speaker 1: because the money just wasn't there. At least my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: no one's ever managed a campaign over twenty million dollars

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Speaker 1: for president twice. If I do it again, I'll learn

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Speaker 1: a lot more doing it at a second time, because

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Speaker 1: the management of resources and when to kind of push

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Speaker 1: the accelerator, when to let off, those are lessons that

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Speaker 1: it's just hard to learn without making a mistake. Ted

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Speaker 1: was the last viable candidate faced from with Trump. And

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Speaker 1: Ted's one of the smartest guys in the Senate, somebody

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Speaker 1: I admire a lot, is a lot of courage. But

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Speaker 1: it strikes me that in the end, there was a

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Speaker 1: momentum to Trump in a sort of personal scale. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't a money scale. It was all the different components

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Speaker 1: that made up Trump that was just almost impossible to stop.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as you look back and again, I think

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Speaker 1: you guys ran a great campaign, and certainly in Iowa

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Speaker 1: you did a remarkable job, and Ted did a good

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Speaker 1: job in the debates. I mean, he's one of the

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Speaker 1: two smartest guys on the stage. Yeah, I think we

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Speaker 1: measured now, and there's a new science every year of

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Speaker 1: new science, and in twenty four there'll be another science

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Speaker 1: will be able to measure. But you know, he used

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Speaker 1: to measure endorsements and that sort of thing in billionaires

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Speaker 1: that funded super PACs and all that. Now it's a

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Speaker 1: small dollar game, but it's also earned media share, and

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Speaker 1: the media's share has almost always predicted presidential winners in

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Speaker 1: primaries and generals. Frankly, but the earned media share that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was able to get in the primary was

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Speaker 1: just an overwhelming, powerful tool, and we were not ever

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Speaker 1: interesting enough to gather that. We'd always complain about it,

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Speaker 1: but the fact of the matter is Donald Trump was

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Speaker 1: anytime we would get on a role, we wouldn't five

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Speaker 1: states in a row. Obviously, we won Iowa and had

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Speaker 1: some successes in the SEC primary states, but it was

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Speaker 1: never a big enough moment that he wouldn't change the

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Speaker 1: topic the next day. And regardless of how he would

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Speaker 1: change it, he would be able to control the media

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Speaker 1: in a way that would dominate the coverage for days

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Speaker 1: and sometimes recklessly change it. But even though staying to

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Speaker 1: spell my name right, he would control the media narrative

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Speaker 1: day after day after day. And if we were winning conventions,

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Speaker 1: they were rigged, and then all the conversation would be

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Speaker 1: how rigged were they? Were? They really rigged. He's a

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Speaker 1: force of nature, particularly as relates to earned media coverage,

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Speaker 1: and it was a tsunami. I remember we won Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Ted gave his best election night speech. You know, candidates

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Speaker 1: get pretty hyped up after they win. They speak for

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Speaker 1: too long, and they do all their thank yous at

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Speaker 1: the beginnings at the end, and at some point the

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Speaker 1: press that stops covering them, they lose their message. But

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Speaker 1: Ted gave a great speech in Wisconsin. We get back

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Speaker 1: on the bus, We've had Fox News on, and we

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Speaker 1: immediately go to the big board to show how Trump's

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Speaker 1: gonna win the next five states, and it was lucky,

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Speaker 1: just didn't even happen. And so there's this force of work,

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Speaker 1: and Trump was an overwhelming presence. Now in the middle

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Speaker 1: of all this, while you're doing these campaigns, you're also

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Speaker 1: growing action, which I have to express my own ignorance,

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Speaker 1: actually has helped elect seventy four Kishman, eight senators, six governors.

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Speaker 1: You do political and ballot initiative campaigns. You provide crisis

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Speaker 1: management and consulting to eight fortune five hundred companies and

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Speaker 1: over twenty public corporations on federal, state, and local issues.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is a heck of a machine that

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Speaker 1: all grew out of your founding it in Kansas City.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to believe in it. What was the key

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Speaker 1: to that? I mean, why is Actium such a juggernaut?

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Speaker 1: I think the longevity of our employees. Probably We get

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Speaker 1: to work on a lot of big campaigns, and when

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Speaker 1: we see folks that kind of ascribe to our philosophy

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Speaker 1: of politics and enjoy working together, and people come here,

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Speaker 1: and as we talk about a lot, we'd want people

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Speaker 1: to retire with our company. We're trying to build a

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Speaker 1: hundred year company, and we want to have a philosophy

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Speaker 1: that I want people's kids to work here and their

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Speaker 1: grandkids to work here if they're competent and able. I

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Speaker 1: think the business of politics is changing to a degree

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Speaker 1: as well. I think that if you're a small shop

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Speaker 1: in politics, it's kind of hard to make it to

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Speaker 1: get to scale and politics and have highly compensated and

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Speaker 1: highly trained people. You have to be at a certain size,

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Speaker 1: and we got there just by not spending a bunch

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Speaker 1: of money and saving a cycle over cycle and not

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Speaker 1: get a bunch of offices and not spending a munch

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Speaker 1: of money frivolously. And Missy and I don't need a bunch.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we certainly don't don't live too shabby, but

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Speaker 1: we reinvest in the company a lot. And I'd have

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Speaker 1: the same story every entrepreneur has and didn't take any

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Speaker 1: money out for the first couple of years and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But now that we've built it

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Speaker 1: to scale, now people are attracted to come here because

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Speaker 1: they can work on campaigns that they could never work

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Speaker 1: on their own. And it always happens. It's a good

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Speaker 1: client comes in and they have a great opportunity. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna raise a bunch of money. It's a big race,

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Speaker 1: and they just don't run. Eventually they drop out or

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Speaker 1: something happens, and that kills a lot of firms. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you have a big kind of anchored client, they

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Speaker 1: don't run, or something happens or they redistrict them out,

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Speaker 1: or that kills companies. And for us, we have enough

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Speaker 1: big clients and enough kind of going that we have

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Speaker 1: enough talented people that we just keep marching on. And

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Speaker 1: so we've also focused our company on general consultants. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people sell television advertising or digital advertising or

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Speaker 1: direct mail, or they have this product offering, and that's great.

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Speaker 1: We do a lot of those things. We sell those

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Speaker 1: product offerings too, but with bones of our company or

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Speaker 1: people that can actually manage a campaign, they can run

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Speaker 1: it and put the pieces together, and they can build

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure for a candidate. So when they come in

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Speaker 1: a lot of times don't care who does the mail piece,

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Speaker 1: or who does the different pieces of the process, or

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Speaker 1: who sends the text messages or whatever they care about.

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Speaker 1: Who intellectually is on the lead lap with them about

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Speaker 1: what they want to accomplish or what the campaigns about,

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Speaker 1: and they can help execute all the different features. So

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Speaker 1: when they say they want something done, they don't have

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Speaker 1: to listen to a voice on a conference call. They

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Speaker 1: know their person, and we have twenty four people like

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Speaker 1: that now across the country that they trust to be

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Speaker 1: able to get that done, their valued partner in the

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Speaker 1: campaign effort. And I think that's the strength of our

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Speaker 1: firm is this is not me. We have really talented

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Speaker 1: people running big scale campaigns now, and they're attracted to

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Speaker 1: come here so they can work on campaigns and otherwise

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Speaker 1: it would almost be hard for either of them to

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Speaker 1: handle on their own, or if they lost a race,

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Speaker 1: they'd really feel it, you know, the next day in

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Speaker 1: their own company. You have the system working very well,

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Speaker 1: and then you tackle the highest profile race of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one and it's initially, I think, realistically a long

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Speaker 1: shot because I gotta get through a convention which normally

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Speaker 1: favors the traditional insiders. This is at least my sense.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong, and you've got a genuine outsider

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Speaker 1: who is learning politics every single day. What attracted you

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Speaker 1: to Glenn? We met before the twenty cycle was over.

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Speaker 1: A mutual friend of ours had met him and said,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna love this guy. You got to meet him.

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Speaker 1: I think at that point, I don't recall he had

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Speaker 1: interviewed a lot of people, and he eventually talked to

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Speaker 1: everybody in the business. I feel like, but Larry Hogan

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Speaker 1: had given him some advice that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: folks in Virginia had just gotten used to losing and

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Speaker 1: did not hire the consultant class from Virginia. That helped

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Speaker 1: me a lot because a lot of my competitors are

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Speaker 1: in Virginia, so that wiped a whole bunch of people out,

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Speaker 1: so that was helpful. But I met him and I

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Speaker 1: could tell, first of all, that he just wasn't a

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Speaker 1: typical business guy that wanted to go throw their hat

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Speaker 1: in the ring and try something new. That's what happens

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Speaker 1: a lot with business guys that have mastered one area

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Speaker 1: of society and believe they have something to offer another

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Speaker 1: area of society. But he was intellectually curious and had

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Speaker 1: a burning heart of service. And I left that first

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Speaker 1: meeting and I thought, gosh, I would have done that

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Speaker 1: race for free. I think he's a fabulous person. And

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Speaker 1: I think anytime we have a chance to work for

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Speaker 1: someone that's actually going to change and been the arc

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Speaker 1: of politics, that's an honor to do that. And he's

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Speaker 1: that kind of guy. He's a conservative, he's not pissed

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Speaker 1: off about it, and the hunger that he has to

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Speaker 1: do better each and every day. You either have that

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Speaker 1: or you don't. Either slough off on the issues and

433
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: just recite talking points. Are you intellectually you're curious enough

434
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: to find out why people that you don't agree with

435
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: have that position and just fundamentally want to understand the

436
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: three D piece of politics. And so I pitched. We

437
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: probably worked I don't know, three or four different meetings

438
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: and long conference calls, just philosophical and finally his big

439
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: hang up to get the deal done was how many

440
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: days a week I would be in Virginia, because I've

441
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: not done a lot of races in Virginia. And so

442
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: I spent one hundred and twenty three days in the

443
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 1: Marriott across the street from the campaign office the last year.

444
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: And it was to really build a symmetrical campaign that

445
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: launched in an invention, which is the purest of pure Republicans,

446
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: and build a campaign starting from that all the way

447
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: to election night in the general and had the same

448
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: consistent messaging. And that takes a lot of work on

449
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: the front end to do that, and you could tell

450
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: immediately that he was committed to that. We also didn't

451
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: want to run a convention and be the nominee just

452
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: to lose. And so the first thing that he recommended

453
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: we do, which told me everything I needed to know

454
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: about him, it was to do a general election survey

455
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 1: to understand if Virginia was really as gone as everyone

456
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: thought that it was gone. And remember this as December

457
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: of twenty the Georgia election had not even happened yet,

458
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: and so we had done a survey then. And I'll

459
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: tell you one of the first things that I learned

460
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: in that survey, one of my first takeaways was that

461
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: the non white voters were as or more persuadable than

462
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: white voters that had formerly been Republicans that had left

463
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: the party. So we learned a lot of that survey.

464
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: And Glenn was from the jump was a trans informational

465
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: candidate that I was going to be eager to work with,

466
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: and I learned a lot from him during the process.

467
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: That's great was the convention much of a challenger. Was

468
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: the share momentum of your campaign enough to win it?

469
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: It was a big challenge. We were the focal point

470
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: of the campaign really from the word go, and I've

471
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: not been in a campaign like this where we were

472
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: the news the whole entire way. That's a lot of

473
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: pressure on a campaign. But everybody took us as being

474
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: their kind of block to their nomination. We stood in

475
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: their way. We took that to heart. And fashioned a

476
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: campaign that the most of the people had ever participated

477
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: before in the convention was eighteen thousand and thirty two

478
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: thousand participated in this one. We registered on our own

479
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand delegates. So we knew that if we let

480
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: the typical be the typical, we would not be able

481
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: to be successful. We needed to change the electorate, and

482
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: so we completely changed the electorate, registered people that never

483
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: registered to be a delegate before, completely from a very

484
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: unconventional approach, and I like it that way. The more

485
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: difficult it is, I think, the less likely it is

486
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: that my competitors will do the same work. And Glenn

487
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: was ready to work, ready to change, ready to invest.

488
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: We didn't outspend everybody another candidate spend as much as

489
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: we did in it, but everybody had a unique approach

490
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: to their voting block, and we were everybody's second choice,

491
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: which is kind of a dangerous place to be in

492
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: a typical election, but with ranked choice voting, I felt

493
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: good about that. We didn't run any negative ads, we

494
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: didn't do the typical approach, but eventually, as other people

495
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: kept attacking, it gave us the chance to really show

496
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: Glenn's heart and with our own people that we were

497
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: bringing to the polls into the convention ourselves. We were

498
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: bringing enough first place votes that we felt really confident.

499
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: You never know who's going to show up. We registered

500
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand, we got about half of them to the

501
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: polls for the first vote, but we felt pretty confident

502
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: once we turned it into a ground war that we

503
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: were gonna be okay. So you start out in one

504
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: of the things you're really known for. He is looking

505
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: carefully at data. Were you surprised early on that Virginia

506
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: was not as blue as people thought? No? I always thought,

507
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: so if you take Trump out of the mix, you

508
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: take a sixteen results, you know it's a five point state,

509
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: take the Trump Hillary kind of out of it, it's

510
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: probably a four point state. It's not Colorado. Everybody would

511
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: always make the suggestion it's Colorado. It's not a great

512
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: state for Republicans for sure, but it's just not that bad.

513
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: And Trump didn't put it in played in campaign there

514
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: last time, and Biden's kind of the perfect vessel for them.

515
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: So I never thought it was a ten point state.

516
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: I thought it could be a probably a four or

517
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: five point state. And then you take the national kind

518
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: of averages of the off year performance in the off year,

519
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: and we're looking at probably a one or two point state.

520
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: So I always thought we'd be down one or two,

521
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: maybe three, And certainly right after the convention, some surveys

522
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: came out that had us down outside the margin of air.

523
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: With the URGA had a survey that had us down eleven.

524
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: That was a tough day, but they had to college

525
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: educated vote was at fifty nine percent and the highest

526
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: had ever been was fifty two percent. So I didn't

527
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: think those numbers were quite right, but I figured we

528
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: were going to be when a minus four or five

529
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: coming out of the convention. Our own Polly and had

530
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: us down six. And thankfully, in my mind's eye, our

531
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: convention was a month before the Democrat election, and that

532
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: gave us a chance to go on air and start

533
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: identifying and branding Glenn outside the typical political prism. And

534
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: we had the resources because Glenn invested twenty million dollars

535
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: of his own campaign. He spent roughly eight in the

536
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: primary and the convention phase, and so we spent a

537
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: lot of money at that time, knowing we could get

538
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: out spent at the end, but knowing what attacks would

539
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: come against us to really spend a lot of time

540
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: uncomfortably not talking deep about issues, not talking about anything

541
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: besides introducing him as a new kind of leader. And

542
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: I think that really paid dividends. There was never a

543
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: time in the campaign that Glenn's unfavorables were higher than

544
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: his favorables. How much time did you spend in that

545
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: original introduction May twenty eighth until August eleventh. You know,

546
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: I live in McLean, Virginia, Na Kliss and I watched it.

547
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: We thought they were very good, and they set him

548
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: up as a nice, likable, sincere person in a way

549
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: that I thought was tremendous To then be able to

550
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: be in a real campaign with a guy who you

551
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: knew was going to be very tough. I mean, mccalliff's

552
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: a real professional politician and he was going to do

553
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: whatever it took to try to win. And he started

554
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: advertising against us on July eleventh, and it was all

555
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: about Trump and making us the Trump Accolyte. There was

556
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: a tough summer, by the way, we were down and

557
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: still not advertising, not counter attacking, no negatives, not really

558
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: even talking deep about issues, and a lot of folks

559
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: were talking about you know, we were spent too much

560
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: time on his brand versus the other. But the best

561
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: antidote for the Trump attack was to make the lenn

562
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: his own person, and so to me, there wasn't a

563
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: lot of reason to switch off that message, even though

564
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: we weren't going to gain a lot. We were building

565
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: up scar tissue on that attack, which eventually I think

566
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: proved to be Carry's downfalls. That he never really moved

567
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: off of that. He never got to the second punch.

568
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: He was just that we were a radical Republican. They

569
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,239
Speaker 1: were crazy extreme Republican, whether it be because of our

570
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: support of Trump, or because of our position or abortion

571
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: or guns, or climate change or pick your topic. Positioning

572
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: him as a pretty normal suburban dad who wants to

573
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: go do the right things, I think that paid off.

574
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: Do you think mccauloff had polling that showed him that

575
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: that would work, Because I thought, frankly, the Terry was

576
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: a better politician than his campaign, and I thought that

577
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: the campaign was one of the more inferior products i'd

578
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: seen in a while. Me too, I think he ran,

579
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, two of the worst campaigns I've ever seen,

580
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: rand as Terry mcculiff and Hellard Clinton. When I got

581
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: into the race. I would have thought that Terry would

582
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: have been kind of like a Claire McCaskill type to

583
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: would really be sophisticated, you know, take an issue to

584
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: wedge it, And he never did that. It seemed like

585
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: a lazy campaign to me. It seemed like a kind

586
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: of knock off twenty twenty Senate race. Didn't you have

587
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: the sense that he didn't really take young kuns seriously

588
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: till towards the very end, after he made the mistake

589
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: in the debate about whether or not parents should be

590
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 1: involved in schools. But prior to that, it was kind

591
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: of like he was ropa doping. Yeah, like he just

592
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: had one note. He was just going to beat the

593
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: heck out of it till it let out. I did

594
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: think that I thought it was a pretty woeful effort.

595
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if he had and I just still

596
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 1: don't know the answer this really, but I couldn't tell

597
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: if he had too many advisors or not enough, because

598
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: on the day before Alexa had eleven commercials up and

599
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: we had three, and he was all over the map

600
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: at the end, just trying anything. But Yeah, for the

601
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: longest time, we kept on looking around thinking is this.

602
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: All this guy's gonna do is try the same thing,

603
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, eight thousand times. I do want to say,

604
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: as a citizen voter who was watching the campaign, I thought,

605
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: over all, your commercials were very, very good. You know.

606
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: The thing that he did to surprised me the most.

607
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: We split up our coalition into obviously persuadable voters, people

608
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: that we just couldn't get. But listen to this that

609
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: you'll love us. He spent about one point eight million

610
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: dollars on Hulu, you know, the streaming service. I gotta

611
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: be honest, it was freaking me out a little bit.

612
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: We ended up spending about ninety two thousand dollars on it.

613
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: And when I asked, I said, guys, and I cannot

614
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: be missing something here, so I need to rerun the

615
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: analytics and come back to me. They re ran the analytics,

616
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: came back to me, and there were nineteen hundred and

617
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: eighty two Hulu subscribers that were persuadable voters. Now I

618
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: still overspent on it. Now, I guess he was trying

619
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: to get turnout, right, he was trying to lose much

620
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: more of a democratic platform. Didn't they do pretty well

621
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: with turnout? The turnout was up. We all did. I

622
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: thought he would actually be down on turnout and he wasn't. No,

623
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: I wrote the MO on May twenty first. I think

624
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: we got the data back on May eighteenth. We had

625
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: our first cut on analytics as our turnout was gonna

626
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: be at two point nine, and then after we got

627
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: the data back from registration numbers, we had at three

628
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: point one and ended up at three point two. So

629
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: we always do that. I think everybody was kind of

630
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: surprised about the turnout, but you know, you spent one

631
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty million bucks, you get some people turned out.

632
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious and this may be confidential, so feel pretty

633
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: enough to answered. But when you go through this, and

634
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: as I understand that your initial goal was to win

635
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: five hundred and seven thousand, four hundred and twenty three

636
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: likely Republican voters, four hundred thousand, seven und twenty ghetti

637
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: bole Republicans, and six hundred and forty seven thousand, two

638
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: hundred ninety one swing voters, I mean, at one level,

639
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: those are slightly funny because you don't actually know if

640
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: it's two hundred and ninety one. Well, we do, well,

641
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: how do you? I mean, do you do a scan

642
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: of every single voter. Virginia's not great because Virginia is

643
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: not a heavily battleground states, so there's not as much

644
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: data been purchased over the years. Some states have fifty

645
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: thousand on each voter, but we had about thirty thousand

646
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: pieces of data on every individual voter. And so by

647
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: the time we do that much survey work, we know

648
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: pretty close. I mean, there's not a lot of guesswork

649
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: to be done. Now, where do you get your information

650
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: as different and whether we can get to you could

651
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: be different. We did a lot of unique work against

652
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: Terry in the coal country where he said he wanted

653
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: to eliminate coal. Were trying to turn people out that

654
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: we're not likely to participate. That's an expensive endeavor and

655
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: you've got to find the right issue that matters to them.

656
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: And Cole was a big one there. And so we've

657
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: had a universe about thirty four thousand and I'll know

658
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks how many of those actually

659
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: did turn out. And Glenn's going to require Glenza Carlisle

660
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: guy if we will have a big project to put

661
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: together how many of our targets of all those went

662
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: through that's an absolute straight number. The James River, you know,

663
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: the flooding that goes on and the sewage is being

664
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: dumped there. That was a number one issue for them.

665
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: We did about twenty one thousand mail pieces digital targets

666
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: on that issue alone. When you're trying to get that

667
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: many votes out of Richmond. I mean, there's just not

668
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: a lot of things that they agree with the Republican

669
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: Canada for governor on It's not made up these days,

670
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, with analytics, we have a lot of information

671
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: on each voter. The other thing that struck me is

672
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: it but I thought that bringing in a series of

673
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: national politicians, whether it was Kamala Harris or Obama or

674
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: other folks who had national reputations, but they weren't Virginians

675
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: and it was overwhelmingly oriented towards either very very liberal

676
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: whites or to the black community to what he sent

677
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: did that actually seal the mccauliff off from the voters

678
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: that he might have tried to get well, completely turned

679
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: him into a turnout only vessel. He advocated any ability

680
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: to win any crossovers. And I think that everybody has

681
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: a different philosophy about whether it's turnout or whether it's

682
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, a centrist appeal. I believe you can do both.

683
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: But I'll give you a stat that you'll like. Stacey

684
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: Abrahams came in for his souls to the poll in

685
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: Hampton Roads. We would the next day to see how

686
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: many people turned out that day, and three hundred ninety

687
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: four turned out that day. Now, they didn't have Sunday

688
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: voting the year before, so we can't measure at apples

689
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 1: to apples. But the Monday the year before, fifteen hundred

690
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: and forty eight had voted. Barack Obama went to Richmond

691
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: on a Sunday and they had a rally. Six hundred

692
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: ninety four people voted that day. But after the rally

693
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: they encourage everybody to go across the street and vote

694
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: at the early voting center, and one person voted. One

695
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: So I think that would have been better for him

696
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 1: if he would have actually had an operation that would

697
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: take those people and actually go vote them afterwards. I

698
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: have this follows to me about companies. Our company is

699
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: a third of July and a fifth of July company,

700
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: and the fourth of July will come and the same

701
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: thing goes for campaigns. The third of July means we're

702
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: gonna prepare, we're gonna invite, we're gonna build a data

703
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: so we could have everything in order. Fourth July slide off, fireworks,

704
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: and everybody looks good on fourth of July. But then

705
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: the fifth of July is the follow up and the

706
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: follow through and making sure everybody had a good time

707
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: and do the measurements afterwards. And we spent seven point

708
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: one million dollars on early voting, and that's not a

709
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about a real number and

710
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: a real painful number. There's a lot of people saying

711
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: I want to vote early, but I don't know if

712
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: I trust them, And so we spent real money and

713
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: real resources because one of the reasons was is because

714
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: we didn't want a whole month long stories about how

715
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: the Democrats were kicking our tail an early vote. Because

716
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: an untold story about polling and the way this pundent

717
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: polling works is there's a poll coming out every few

718
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: days anymore, and if people think that their candidate's gonna lose,

719
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: it starts to impact turnout. And thirty eight percent of

720
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: our voters thought we were gonna lose on Labor Day,

721
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: and we knew if we went through a whole raft

722
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: of stories saying that we were getting our tails kicked

723
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: an early vote, that that was going to just start

724
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: to become a reaccruing problem. So we spent a lot

725
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: of money getting we call on Republicans in the bank

726
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: votes to participate because studies show three and a half

727
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: percent of people, it will tell you all the way

728
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: through the election that they're going to vote on election

729
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: day don't vote. And Virginia has forty five days, which

730
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: is a ridiculous amount of days, but they have forty

731
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: five days or early votes. So we just spent a

732
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: bunch of money getting those people to vote early, and

733
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: we were beating those numbers. We got forty six percent

734
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: of the early vote. You know, we've got to beat

735
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: fifty four to forty six, which is a huge number.

736
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: That's only because the investment of the main and that's

737
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: a huge shift from what had been traditionally the Republican approach,

738
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: which was to get killed in the early voting but

739
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: didn't have a massive election day turnout. The other thing

740
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: I am told that you guys did is that you

741
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: were able to get the absentees and the mail in

742
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: ballasts counted first, so they couldn't then turn and manufacture

743
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: the number of extra votes they needed if they began

744
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: to fall short. There was a lot of pressure that

745
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: was built upon that not being the case anymore, and

746
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: I think we had a hand in that, but that's

747
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: a governmental decision. There's play things i'll take credit for.

748
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd take credit for all of that,

749
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: but certainly there's pressure that we've all seen it a

750
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: thousand times right where they would just walk in and

751
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: that's the last votes to drop, and you have no idea.

752
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: Arlington City was one of the first ones we knew

753
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: at seven thirty eight. At seven thirty eight, I told

754
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: Lad that he was gonna win, and I said, I

755
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: don't know what it's going to be. I think you're

756
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: gonna hang at fifty on him, but you're gonna people

757
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: showing you screenshots that you want to see. You ought

758
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: to go down to your lap right now because I

759
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: don't want you to be declared when you're just kind

760
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: of working the circuit downstairs. And we knew it because

761
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: Arlington City was gonna be a really rough spot for us,

762
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: and they dropped their votes early, and I think we

763
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: got twenty eight percent and we could survive at twenty six,

764
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: and so we do right then that we were going

765
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: to be okay. But is that a technique that next

766
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: year around the country we should have a pretty uniform

767
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: effort to say we want to see the absentees and

768
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: the mail ends early. We have to push for it.

769
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: They have to start coming before they cannot start on

770
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: election nine, and we haven't enough Republicans and enough positions

771
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: typically by partisan boards with an edge to the Democrats.

772
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: Of course, that we should absolutely push for that, and

773
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: there's no reason not to now the other they don't

774
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: ask you. You indicated in your story in the Washington

775
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: Post you see inflation and the economic challenges as the

776
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: great driver of the next year. At the same time,

777
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: you did mention in the next paragraph that they that

778
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: the school board education radical values thing played out became

779
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: a living part of the campaign. Should candid its prepared

780
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: to work both on the economic and the education side

781
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: in your judgment, I'll answer it this way. It's the

782
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: right question from a takeaway for next cycle. There's a

783
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: lot of pressure built to quote unquote nationalize the race

784
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: and run as against Biden and glow Sea and NAOC

785
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: and all that we rejected that all the way through

786
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: because I believe you get the benefit of that anyway.

787
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: I don't believe you have to run it out against

788
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: Biden to get the benefit of his approval, and his

789
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: approval rangs were always better than Terry's numbers. But what

790
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: has happened with the cost of living? And you can

791
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: chalk it up to inflation, or chalk it up to

792
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: supply chain, whatever you want to chalk it up to,

793
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: but the cost of living people that ascribe that impact

794
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: on their daily life to Democrat leaders both at the

795
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: state level and the federal level, and for us, and

796
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: you see it now, I mean, everybody's starting to kind

797
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: of get on the train now. I don't think it's

798
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: because of us, although I think it is because of

799
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: Virginia to a degree, but also because people are polling

800
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: now because they're closer to the election cycle. But cost

801
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: of living, it is through the roof, and it wasn't

802
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: this time last year. And there's one difference between last

803
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: year and this year, and that's who's in charge. And

804
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: they ascribe that rightfully in my opinion. But even if

805
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: it's not rightful, even if it's just a bad time

806
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: for them, you know, the bad time to be in charge.

807
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: The voters understand this, and they know that there's something different,

808
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: and every single piece of their life is more expensive

809
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: than it was. And so cost of living was early on.

810
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: When they say jobs in the economy, that means something

811
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: different in the state, and so I would encourage people

812
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: to understand exactly what that means. But in Virginia, at

813
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: least a huge swath of America, that simply means cost

814
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: of living. And they might say inflation, but I think

815
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: even that excuses it a little bit. I would actually

816
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: make it cost of living. But then that's not really enough.

817
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of it. That's an economic message.

818
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: But the other kind of cultural message of schools, even

819
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: if you don't have children, but particularly if you do,

820
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: the cultural message that our country is kind of getting

821
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: away from us a little bit. And that message and

822
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: the message driven through and Terry hung a bow on

823
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 1: it for us, but that we were actually going through

824
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: all throughout the course of the campaign is not just

825
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: critical race theory, which absolutely was part of it, but

826
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: the lack of opportunity for school choice, which the dumbing

827
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: down of academic standards and literally not teaching advanced math

828
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: and science and longer removing school resource officers, making less

829
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: safe of all the different things that are appening in

830
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: the schools, particularly in the Northern Virginia, but even school

831
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: choice in Richmond, and even school resource officers at Hampton Roads,

832
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: and even what they're teaching to our kids across the Commonwealth.

833
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: But that's a cultural issue, and that cultural issue is

834
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: a stand in for the cultural fights that we feel

835
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: like we're fighting and under assault every single day. And

836
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: so when you marry economic issues with a cultural protection

837
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: of our kids issue is a powerful, powerful combo, and

838
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: I think if used properly, I think it will allow

839
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: Republicans to have historic wins because I don't believe the

840
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: Democrats can or have the stamina or the strength to

841
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: fight back on either one. I don't think they could

842
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: change their economic platform, and I believe they are doing

843
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: precisely what they want to do on the cultural Now.

844
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: The one last big thing, you well, also had the

845
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: most diverse Republican ticket I can remember, with a Jamaican

846
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: born American citizen who served in the Marine Corps, the

847
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: first black female to become lieutenant governor, and the son

848
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: of Cuban refugees. As the first Latino attorney general in

849
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: Virginia history. To what extent was it do you think

850
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: electorally helpful to have a ticket that was that diverse?

851
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: Oh it will. It's big time because one eliminated any

852
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: ability for the Democrats to attack Glenn over the Party

853
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: of the old white guy. And so because we were

854
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: bringing something dynamic and fresh. We didn't have those goals.

855
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: By the way, in the pre convention phase, we didn't

856
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: know who the nominees were going to be. But when

857
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: we had that ticket and we sat down, because you

858
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: run as a ticket in Virginia, there's many ways to

859
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: run as a ticket. One is to do a conference

860
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: hall once a week and say hey, we're going here,

861
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: where are you going? Another way is to actually embed

862
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: and have a sophisticated messaging and narrative campaign structure. And

863
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: we went with the ladder and Glenn and Jason and

864
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: went some I mean, we were campaign together as a ticket.

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00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: We split messaging, we did everything that we could together

866
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: because we knew that was a dynamic solution for what

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00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: the modern party needs to embrace and there's something in

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00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: it for everyone. And Glenn's you know, broad based campaign

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00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: that was leave no voter behind and take no vote

870
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: for granted, just was embodied with the construct of the ticket,

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00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: so it was a perfect store for that. Well, I

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00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: want to come in you. I had found the race

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00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: exactly what it should have been. I watched it, as

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00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: you know, very carefully. I thought that Glenn Younkin did

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00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: an amazing job and I think it was historic. I

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00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: think Youngcan has a very long career ahead of him

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00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: as a national leader who happened to be at a

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00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: moment in time where this particular victory is going to

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00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: send signals that will be substantial for twenty twenty two

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00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: and two twenty four. And Jeff, I want to thank

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00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: you for taking time out of your family vacation. I am,

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00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: as you know, a big fan of the work you've done,

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00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: and I want our listeners to know we're going to

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00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: have more information about political advertising and about your company,

885
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: Axiom Strategies on our show page at newtsworld dot com.

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00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Jeff Row. You can learn

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00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: more about political advertising and the winning Yuncan campaign on

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00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts is produced

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00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: by Gingwidge three sixty and iHeartMedia, our executive producers Debbie Myers,

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00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson.

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00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley.

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00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwidge three sixty. If

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00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple

894
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give

895
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my

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00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at Gingwidge three sixty dot com

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00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingridge. This is Newtsworld.