1 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Good day, sweet world, and welcome to a little bonus 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: edition of the No Dunks Podcast. I'm Jay skeis here 3 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: in Atlanta with our super producer JD. Mashin the buttons 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: like he's trying to unlock a big Head cheat code 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: and joining us on the phone. He's our special guest today. 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: He is the author of NBA Jam from Boss Fight Books, 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: which is a fascinating breakdown of the nineties basketball arcade game. 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: It's ray On, Ali, Rayon. 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: How's it going, man, It's I'm doing all right. I'm 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 3: doing all right. I'm so excited to be here. Thank 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: you so much for having me. 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: I've been meaning to interview you for a long time 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: about NBA Jam, this book that you wrote for honestly 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: for months now. Your book was released I think what 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: late last twenty eighteen, right October or something like that. 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was twenty nineteen. Actually, time flies. Remember we're 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, this horrible twenty twenty. Yeah, so yeah, 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 4: October twenty nineteen, October twenty second, twenty nineteen, to be exact. 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: And you sent me a copy. I tore through this thing, honestly. 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: I loved every chapter, every page of it. And I 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: told you. You know, I reached out to you on 22 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: Twitter and thank you for sending it first off, and 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: then I said, I'd love to do a podcast about this. 24 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: I mean, it's fascinating to me. I grew up with 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: the Arcade game. There's so many great little stories within 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: this book that you wrote. And I said, Okay, we'll 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: do this, We'll do this, and yeah, here we are 28 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: it's the summer of twenty twenty. Because I told you 29 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to reread it in all honesty, which I 30 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: did rayon, and I got to say, that's like the 31 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: highest compliment I can give anybody. I actually read something twice. 32 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm I'm one of those brutal people. 33 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: I hate watching a movie for a second time. So 34 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: that's how good this book is. But I want to 35 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: know how did it come about? Like what was the 36 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: impetus for you writing this thing? 37 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 4: Well, first off, thank you so much for that incredible compliment. 38 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 4: Just earlier today I had a guy who said he 39 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 4: only plays video games and doesn't read. He read my book, 40 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: so that was like, wow, oh my gosh, this is 41 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: next level. 42 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: So thank you. 43 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, where did I get the idea to do it? 44 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 4: From so going way back, I'm actually a freelance writer. 45 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 4: I've worked for a bunch of different places. I've been 46 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 4: published by Wired, Spin, Rolling Stone, the Atlantic Complex, like 47 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 4: tons and tons of places, probably literally forty to fifty 48 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 4: different outlets. But it had been a freelance writer for 49 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 4: many years, mostly doing music stuff, so funny enough, I 50 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 4: did very little video games stuff, if any video games 51 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 4: stuff at all. 52 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: So there's all music. 53 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 4: Interviews, some pop culture stuff, some wrestling stuff. Anyways, in 54 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen, I found this publisher called boss Fight Books. Actually, 55 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 4: come to think about, I probably found them a year 56 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 4: before as a fan, but in twenty fifteen when I 57 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 4: found them, they had an open call four pitches, so 58 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 4: they said, pitch us a book. The whole idea with 59 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 4: boss Fight is that they're individual books about individual video games. 60 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 4: So you'll have, let's say, a Super Mario Brothers two 61 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 4: book by one author, a Super Mario Brothers three book 62 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 4: by separate author, a Mega Man book by separate author, 63 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 4: and so forth. So there's all these different books out 64 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 4: there about these different games. And I was like, wow, 65 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 4: I've been doing these small articles for years. I would 66 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 4: really love to sing my teeth into something substantial, But 67 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 4: what is a game I could pitch now? Keep in 68 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 4: mind I'd actually pitched two music books before to a 69 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 4: different publisher, of course, and above those were rejected, So 70 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: it happens. But at the third and one, I was like, 71 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 4: I really want this to work, So what is a 72 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 4: game that I know will we'll take. What's a game 73 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 4: that people would really be interested in? So I wracked 74 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 4: my brain and I was like, oh, obviously NBA Jam. 75 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 4: And I mean, going back twenty fifteen, NBA Jam was still, 76 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 4: you know, in Nbaam's having like a little moment right 77 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 4: now with the Arcade one up coming out and with 78 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 4: some other stuff that's going on, and you know, the 79 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: a nostalgia or the nineties and being a stalagia with 80 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 4: the Last Dance. But back in twenty fifteen, at that point, 81 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 4: NBA Jam was still something that was just a few 82 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: years removed from that EA Sports game. So I was like, Okay, 83 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 4: it's only a few years old, but it seems like 84 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 4: nbajam has gone dormant again. And the game must have 85 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 4: had a really really dramatic rise and fall to go 86 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: from making a ton of money in the nineties to 87 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: not even being made. 88 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: I mean those games. 89 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 4: Back in twenty ten or eleven, with the last official 90 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 4: NBAJAM versions out there aside from this Arkae one up game. 91 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 4: So I knew there was gonna be something there, and 92 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 4: I pitched it to them, and I went way over 93 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: the top. So most pitches are probably like, let's say 94 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: eight or ten pages. For these bus fight books, I 95 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 4: did thirty seven pages. 96 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: So I wrote the damn book. 97 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 3: Basically, I basically wrote the book. And that's what they 98 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: said to me. They said, you wrote the book, so 99 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: we gave it to you. So I was like, well, 100 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: this is great. Sure, So yeah. 101 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 4: I spent at least two months before it was ever 102 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 4: even anywhere near approved, just researching NBA JAM and the 103 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 4: more guy got into it, the more I found out 104 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 4: that there was stuff I needed to report on and share. 105 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: And then one thing led to another and I was 106 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: gonna be like, Okay, this is great. I got this 107 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 4: NBA JAM book. 108 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 3: This is awesome. I'll have it out in two years. 109 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 4: And that was twenty fifteen, and then twenty seventeen came 110 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: and went and life happened, and then finally, by October 111 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, this thing was a reality. 112 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: So that's kind of the long. 113 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 4: Story short of it. But there was a lot that 114 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 4: went on in those four years. 115 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: And you said life happened. You got married and had 116 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: a kid. That's the yeah we're talking about, right. 117 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly, got married, had a kid, moved into 118 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 4: my first house. 119 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 3: So just a lot of stuff. 120 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 4: And you know, there's always those things that happened in 121 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: your life that are just you know, oh, so and so, 122 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: you know, you got to you got to reunite with somebody, 123 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 4: or you went to this job or left that job 124 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 4: or so and so in your life, die something like that. 125 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 4: So those kinds of things happened, of course. But all 126 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 4: along the way, I was working on this NBA jam 127 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 4: book quietly. 128 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 3: Against the day job. So this is all like nights, you. 129 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 4: Know, off hours, weekends, mornings, all kind of squeezing in stuff. 130 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 4: But it was really worth it in the end. I mean, 131 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 4: you already read it twice. There's no greater compliment than that. 132 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 133 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 4: Man. 134 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: Again, I am encouraging everybody if you have any sort 135 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: of fascination with video games or of course the game itself, 136 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: or just even basketball sort of in the nineties. This 137 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: is a really, really well researched fun read too, and yeah, 138 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: I love this book. You said, you know, you saw 139 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: like a little opening with Boss Fight Books and there, 140 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: I assume you know, not many sports games under their umbrella. 141 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: Lot of these, like you said, Super Mario Brothers and 142 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: all these other fight games and stuff like that. There's 143 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: maybe not these sports games there. 144 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: But were you a. 145 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: Fan as well of NBA JAM or did you just 146 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: see the opening there and you're like, oh, okay, that's 147 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: sort of cool. 148 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just do a little deep dive on that, 149 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: or were you a fan? 150 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 4: So yeah, No, NBAJAM is definitely the first sports game 151 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 4: book from Boss Fight Books, and I'm most definitely an 152 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 4: NBA JAM fan, So I have a really interesting history 153 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 4: with NBA JAM. In fact, NBAJAM is what got me 154 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 4: into nineties NBA and into the NBA overall. So let 155 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 4: me take you back in time. Yeah, it's really a 156 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 4: bizarre story when you think about it. So as a kid, 157 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 4: I love video games, but I didn't really care for 158 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: sports at all. And I grew up in Karachi, Pakistan. 159 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 4: So to give you an idea of what this main 160 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 4: sport is over there, it's cricket, so it's everything cricket, cricket, cricket, this, 161 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 4: cricket that, and people would play basketball like you'd go 162 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 4: out to a basketball court you play with your friends. 163 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 4: But there was nothing in terms of watching professional basketball 164 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 4: because they're all American players plus and never got broadcasted 165 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,119 Speaker 4: over there. But yeah, I was a huge video games 166 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 4: fan as a kid, and I remember this one issue 167 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 4: of a Super Bowl comic I got from my uncle 168 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 4: for I think it was for a birthday. So in 169 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 4: the back of the super Boy comic, I saw this 170 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 4: ad for this game and the ad was just so cool. 171 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 4: I mean, there was a ball on fire, it had 172 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 4: all these cool little team logos on there. I didn't 173 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 4: know what it was. There was a New York Knicks logo, 174 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 4: Seattle super Sonics logo, Utah Jazz logo. I'm like, what 175 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: is this? This game looks awesome, Like what is this 176 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 4: out all about? So I was probably maybe let's just 177 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 4: say ten or eleven at this point, which is to 178 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 4: say that I got into it pretty late. 179 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: And at that. 180 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 4: Point, I, yeah, I didn't really know anything about basketball, 181 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 4: so and so NBA Jam was actually my first real 182 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 4: introduction to basketball itself. 183 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: So it's so funny. 184 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would like play in BA Jam and they 185 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 4: kind of hope that's what actual basketball. 186 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say, Like, I'd like to 187 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: picture you watching your first NBA game, going, this sucks. 188 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: These guys are yeah, thirty feet. 189 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: This is it? This is it? Yeah, exactly. 190 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 4: I would have probably been better off like watching like 191 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 4: a Harlem grope Trotter's. 192 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: Game if I wanted to see this more in bag jam. 193 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I remember seeing that and I was so excited. 194 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, this looks so cool. So I 195 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 4: was really into NBA Jam and then I got into 196 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 4: the NBA soon after that. I mean, what really did 197 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 4: it for me was a Seattle super Sonics logo like 198 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 4: that in particular just really stuck out to me. You know, 199 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: the bright yellow and green colors. You know, it was 200 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: just so vivid, So that stuck out to me. 201 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 202 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: Can you talk about the like insane popularity of this 203 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: NBA Jam game, because I know we got a lot 204 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: of younger listeners, I'm sure listening, and I'm guessing they 205 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: know what NBA Jam is. But just like to set 206 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: the scene, this thing exploded in the nineties and just 207 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: made staggering amounts of money for Midway who obviously created 208 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: the game. Can you just talk about that a bit 209 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: because this, like you say something about like Jurassic Park 210 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: was the biggest movie of ninety three, which everybody knows, okay, huge, 211 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, millions upon millions, like nearly three hundred fifty 212 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: million dollars in the year, and NBAGM basically tripled that 213 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: in numbers making off of quarters in a video off 214 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: of quarters. 215 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: Just remarkable. 216 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, So NBA JAM Classic two on two arcade basketball. 217 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: I always looked at it as basketball distilled to the basics, 218 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 4: you know, just rather all the highlights. You know, you 219 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 4: want to see when you're watching basketball. You want to 220 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 4: see amazing dunks or you want to see amazing passes. 221 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 4: You want to see like just killer three point shots, 222 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 4: something that you haven't seen before, something that really sticks out. 223 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: That's what NBAJAM is. So NBAJAM is all about two 224 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 4: on two action. You've got three points, or rather make 225 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 4: three baskets. 226 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: You're on fire. 227 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 4: You've got secret characters in there that will appear out 228 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 4: of nowhere. You've got this amazing commentary of Tim Kitsrow 229 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 4: go on boom shock alaca, and he's on fire and 230 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 4: all of these amazing things that you just hear across 231 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 4: the arcade. So when Nbajam came out in ninety three, 232 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 4: I mean that the whole world turned its eye toward 233 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 4: that in terms of sports games, because this was a 234 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 4: whole new frontier, I mean, first NBA sports game. Before this, 235 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: the NBA was very reluctant to touch anything sports related 236 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 4: when it came to the arcade, rather anything arcade game related. 237 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 4: But they finally, you know, they turned a corner whund 238 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 4: and came to this, and NBA Jam was just such 239 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 4: a phenomena. I mean, people were waiting in lions to 240 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 4: play NBA Jam in arcades, Like Glenn Rice was waiting 241 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 4: in the line to play NBA Jam in an arcade 242 00:09:58,880 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 4: in Miami. 243 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: Like that's how big this was. 244 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 4: Glenn Rice was there with everybody else waiting to play 245 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 4: as Glenn Rice. 246 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 3: On NBA Jam. 247 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 4: I mean that is just such a bizarre, fascinating visual 248 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 4: to me. 249 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: I honestly, I grew up in a pretty small town 250 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: in Canada, Stravand, Ontario, and I remember there was an 251 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: NBA Jam console arcade console. 252 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 2: Machine, I guess at a seven eleven. I remember it. 253 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: Can I can specifically remember where it was in the 254 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: seven eleven and exactly what you said. I can remember 255 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: the kids lining up with their quarters in hand to 256 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, get in to jump in, and you can 257 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: have the four of you go in, and it's just 258 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: like that would just go on for hours there in 259 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: the back of the seven eleven as they just raked. 260 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: In the money. 261 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: Because as I said, like this pulled in a billion dollars, 262 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: nearly a billion dollars. 263 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: Bill like that billion. Oh, it's actually over a billion. 264 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think billions on the on the conservative stamate, 265 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 4: I think. I mean it's honestly, probably way more than 266 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 4: a billion, probably closer to two. And then of course 267 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,119 Speaker 4: Torum Edition came out, so that's totally separate. 268 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: From Torm Edition. 269 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: By the way, you're talking og NBA Jam, we're talking 270 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 4: about a billion dollars billion. I mean that's crazy money 271 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 4: and arcade games. I mean that's a token a time 272 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 4: or quarter at a time. So you've got people all 273 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 4: across the world at one point playing NBA Jam. And 274 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: then of course the home games came out, so it 275 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 4: was really such a phenomenon. So I was a huge 276 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 4: fan and then I was like, I definitely want to 277 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 4: find out how how did all this happen? 278 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: Like where all this stuff come from? 279 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it's so sneaky too with how they 280 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: made this money when you really think about it. And 281 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you painted in the book like the creator, 282 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: Mark Turmel, like he really pushed for the four player 283 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: stations right on the arcade, so you could you know, Okay, 284 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: so it's two on two, it's actually two on two. 285 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: There's four humans playing this, but you know, four stations 286 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: with four periods of play, and you were supposed to be, 287 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: you know, dropping in the quarters every period there. I 288 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: think it was like either you know, twenty five cents, 289 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: fifty cents. That was like you say it like it 290 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: was learning up to like possibly eight dollars in like 291 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: ten minutes at a time. 292 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: It was. It's crazy, it's crazy. 293 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, you calculate it out, So each NBA game would 294 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 4: an NBAJAM game would be fifty cents per player, So 295 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 4: fifty so you'd have two dollars over there, and then 296 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 4: times four quarters, then you've got eight bucks right there. 297 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 4: And of course even the clock at NBA JAM is 298 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 4: not totally accurate. You have toually countered against actual time 299 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 4: it's totally way off. 300 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: And they'll do things within the game, like. 301 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 4: They'll make the clock run faster at certain times or 302 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 4: make it run slower at certain times to you know, 303 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 4: change the tension of the game to feel the game. 304 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 4: So there's so many interesting tricks that went in there. 305 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean NBAJAM was all about what can 306 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 4: we do to really get people's attention and to spend 307 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 4: their time and their money on this NBA game. I mean, 308 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 4: they have this huge NBA logo on the side, They've 309 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 4: got this beautiful NBA JAM marque right there in front 310 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 4: of you. It's got the portraits of the players, which 311 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 4: you know, back then was a big deal. I mean, 312 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 4: nowadays it's not a big del or whatever. You know, 313 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 4: you've got a porter of a player there you can 314 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 4: see them in the game. But back then that was huge. 315 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 4: And NBA JAM did all that with some photographs that 316 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 4: they got, just a handful photographs that got from the 317 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 4: NBA and then from some actual images that an artist 318 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 4: drew by hand of the players on the court. I mean, 319 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 4: this is just how long ago this was. Like they 320 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 4: didn't even have reference material. They had to go through 321 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: Beck at Basketball Magazine and during to try to capture 322 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 4: stills from a videotape in order to get somebody's likeness, 323 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 4: which is crazy. 324 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: You You described the creator, Mark Turmel in the book 325 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: as or I guess maybe someone else did too, but 326 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: like a whimsical willy Wonka yea to him, and I 327 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: love that description so much. You talked to him, of 328 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: course for this book. What was he like and how 329 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: many times did you get a chance to you know, 330 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, pick his brain about creating this game. 331 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, Mark Turmel is very cool. I've talked to him 332 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 4: ten times for the book. And what's funny is that 333 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 4: I've yet to actually meet him, like meet him face 334 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 4: to face. So yeah, I've actually got it to know 335 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 4: it pretty well over the years. And as it was, 336 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 4: it started off, of course, you know, really really small, 337 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 4: you know. I remember calling him up and I think 338 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 4: he was coming home from the gym, and this was 339 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 4: maybe saw him over in Eastern and so it was 340 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: about one o'clock his time, he's in Pacific. I'm sorry, 341 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: one o'clock my time, ten o'clock his time Pacific. So 342 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 4: I was talking to him at one o'clock in the morning, 343 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 4: trying to like get as much information as I could 344 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 4: from this first call, and I was like, this is 345 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 4: you know, years ago, and I was like, Okay, this 346 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 4: guy is going to be the main character of the book. 347 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 4: There's so much amazing stuff here. And he just you know, 348 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 4: rattled off the top of his head on a drive 349 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 4: back from the gym. I know, there's got to be more. 350 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 4: So he became my main character, and I got to 351 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 4: talk to him so much, to the point that I 352 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 4: really felt like I got to know him and he 353 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 4: got to know me too. And he was really really 354 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 4: forthcoming with me on some of the details of the 355 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 4: production of the game and of Midway and what his 356 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: life was like before and after NBA JAM. 357 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 3: So it was really nice to have a. 358 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 4: Human person or have a human touch to it, like 359 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 4: some kind of element over there where we can say, Okay, 360 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 4: this is our person who's there throughout this entire journey. 361 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 4: But yeah, March Trammelo is fascinating. I mean, you know, 362 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 4: I remember the last call I did with him. I 363 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 4: called him up and he was there with Saladavida, one 364 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 4: of the other developers on the game, another main character 365 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 4: in the book. Yeah, and they're both playing Fortnite together 366 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 4: at a fourth of July barbecue. I so what. 367 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: I think it was at Mark Tramel's place, and I 368 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: was like, Wow, this is so cool. 369 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 4: You guys made NBA Jam and you guys are hanging 370 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 4: out twenty five years plus later. So yeah, trammelo fascinating 371 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 4: character and super cool dude, really full of insights, very 372 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 4: willy wonka, very kind of mischievous, always ready to have 373 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 4: a joke. 374 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 375 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, In talking to him ten times, did he ever go, well, 376 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: hold on, why don't I just write my own NBA 377 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: jam book? 378 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: Exactly? 379 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: That's what you know. 380 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: It's like maybe you know, like you know, you're asking 381 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: him all these questions. He's probably telling you all these 382 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: great stories, which he obviously did. They're all in the book. 383 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: And then he I was just ever wondered if he was, like, Jesus, 384 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: I could just make money off NBA jam by just 385 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: writing this myself, that ever come. 386 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: Out exactly exactly? He definitely. 387 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: I think he figured out at some point that this 388 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 4: is like not just like a quick you know, I'm 389 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 4: getting a quick buck off. 390 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: Of this book. This is a quick project. 391 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 4: This is a real deal thing. So I think he 392 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: probably realized that probably four or five calls in. He's like, Okay, 393 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 4: this guy really is like going into the deep end 394 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 4: on it. Same thing happened with Tim kits Row. But 395 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 4: one of the most personally fulfilling moments for me while 396 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 4: working on the book was this is like related in 397 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 4: the process. So I've probably done eight interviews with Tremel's. 398 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 4: This is probably interview number nine. So this point, I 399 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 4: spent years learning about NBA JAM, learning about Midway Games, 400 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 4: who made NBA Jam, learning about how all this world 401 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 4: and talking to all these other people around me about 402 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 4: NBA JAM. 403 00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: So I learned so much. 404 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: And I was having doing his phone call with Mark Tremel, 405 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 4: and he was talking to me about this restaurant that 406 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 4: he went to that's been gone for years. I'm talking decades, 407 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 4: Like you can't even find anything about it on the internet, 408 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 4: Like there's no yelp entry. This is before yelp, and 409 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 4: it's you know that place has gone from one place 410 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 4: to another to another. This is a restaurant in Chicago, 411 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 4: like where exactly. It's a restaurant across the street from 412 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 4: Midway in Chicago. And Tremell is telling me about this 413 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 4: place and he's saying that, you know, I went to 414 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 4: go over there, and I was talking to somebody over 415 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 4: there and we went to go eat at at this 416 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 4: restaurant and I said, Oh, was the restaurant Diane's. 417 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 3: And he said, how did you know that? 418 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 4: How did you know bad Diane's, which is like all 419 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 4: you know all this these years removed from actually ever existing. 420 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 4: But I was like, I just have learned it through 421 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 4: osmosis of working on this book, Like this is where 422 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: guys hang out. They hang out of Diane's across the street, 423 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 4: and I can tell you what bar they went to, 424 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 4: how they would get towards the burger king that they 425 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: get to in the book, like I'd show you in 426 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 4: Google maps. 427 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 3: So I really went in. 428 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 4: And I think that moment with Diane's was when Turmello 429 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 4: like really understood, like, Okay, Wow, this guy is really 430 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 4: doing his research on this. 431 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: This guy really knows. Probably honestly, you know, I don't 432 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: say this. 433 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 4: Is necessarily just bragg, but I probably know more about 434 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 4: NBA jam in certain regards than Turmell does himself, because 435 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 4: I've talked to so many other people besides him. 436 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, how many people did you interview for the book. 437 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 4: Let's see, I don't know how many people I interviewed 438 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 4: that I probably guests, probably fifty fifty five or so. 439 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 4: I did sixty eight interviews total, sixty eight total, so 440 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 4: I had to talk to everybody, you know, all the developers, 441 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 4: people had a claim people. Midway, I had to talk 442 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 4: to Shack, which was incredible. 443 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 3: That was a trip. 444 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: I mean, getting to talk to Shaq for the NBA 445 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 4: Jam book while I'm at work was just bizarre. Just 446 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 4: going into a huddle room at work talking about NBA 447 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 4: Jam was one of the coolest moments ever. 448 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: And you confirmed a Shack correct me if I'm wrong 449 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: that he wasn't actually traveling with the Arcade games. Yes, 450 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: he was like bringing like the console basically a home game. 451 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 3: Right right, And something got lost in translation. So yeah. 452 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 4: For years has been out there that Shaq would take 453 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 4: an NBA Jam machine on the road, which is sadly 454 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 4: not true. 455 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 3: And I was so bummed out. 456 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 4: I was like, I'm gonna be the guy that's gonna 457 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 4: break everybody's dreams of this happening, even though I wanted 458 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 4: this as much as everybody else. I'm like, this is 459 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 4: a great visual sadly not true. But on the upside though, 460 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 4: that what he really did do. Was he and the 461 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: classic Magic Squad, you know that early nineties Magic squad 462 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 4: of him and Penny and Dennis Gott and all Scott Skiles. 463 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 4: They would all get together on the bus and talk 464 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 4: about like, hey, you know, meet me in my room. Afterwards, 465 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: somebody would say usually shak, I think, and then they 466 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 4: would all go upstairs and they would play NBA Jam 467 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 4: on Second Genesis together, like after being on the bus 468 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 4: all day, which is crazy. I mean there was money 469 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 4: exchanging hands. I'm pretty sure there was stuff being bibed, 470 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 4: and they're all having a great time playing NBA Jam 471 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 4: right as the game is of this peak of popularity, 472 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: and I mean, man, it just blew my mind thinking like, okay, 473 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 4: in ninety ninety three, ninety four, Shack is on top 474 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,239 Speaker 4: of the world. I mean, this guy is just one 475 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 4: of the hottest things going and he is actively taking 476 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 4: his time to play NBA Jam after spending however many 477 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 4: hours sitting in a van or sitting in a bus. 478 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 4: So like that was the impact the NBAM had. But yeah, Glenn, Rice, 479 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 4: Kenneth Farid, DGJZ, Jeff, George. 480 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 3: Clinton, like I went on and on. I wanted to 481 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 3: get everybody. 482 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, you interviewed all these people for 483 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: the book. I thought one thing that's interesting, Like Mark Tamel, 484 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: like you said, the star of this guy that created 485 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: the damn game and all these other people that were 486 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: involved in it, I think sort of the unherlded player 487 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: of this whole thing happening, and correct me, I'm wrong, 488 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: But maybe it was Midway licensing director Roger Sharp who 489 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: actually was the one to convince the NBA to, hey, man, 490 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: slap your logo, slap your players, you know, faces on 491 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: this thing, and let's do this, because up until that point, 492 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: like you said, that was just something that the NBA 493 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: was hesitant to do. They didn't like the idea of 494 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: these arcade games because they thought it was sort of like, oh, 495 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: arcade games, that's those are like in strip clubs and 496 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: like CD places and stuff like that. 497 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, And Roger Sharp was is definitely one of 498 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 4: the unsung heroes of NBA JAM and one of those 499 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 4: people who I was like, I have to tell the 500 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 4: story because when people think about a successful project, they 501 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 4: always think about the face value things. You know, they'll 502 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 4: think about the money the game made or you know, 503 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 4: what they see on the screen or even the commentator, 504 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 4: but they won't think about the marketing aspect of something 505 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: like this, where there's all these different gears moving behind 506 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 4: the scenes in or for this game to happen. And 507 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 4: Roger Sharp was just hell bent on making NBA Jam 508 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 4: come true. What's weird is that, you know, back when 509 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 4: Midway pitched the NBA on NBA Jam, they pitched it 510 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 4: as this realistic lifelike two on two game. Of course, 511 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 4: a realistic lifelike not at all, but in the meantime, 512 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 4: like the NBA was super impressed by those amazing visuals, 513 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: but they didn't like the idea of being in arcades, 514 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 4: like you said, And Roger Sharp was the guy who 515 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 4: spent something like nine months contacting them, educating them about arcades, 516 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 4: letting them know what Midway was doing and how top 517 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 4: the line it was. So it was really startling to 518 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 4: hear that this slam dunk of a game almost didn't happen. 519 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: But Roger Sharp is really one of the reasons that 520 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 3: it happened. 521 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 4: And I mean, I mean it got down to the 522 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 4: point that the NBA just really didn't want anything to 523 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 4: do with it, but Sharp told Tremel keep working on 524 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 4: the game. 525 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: Keep working on the game. It's going to happen. It's 526 00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 3: going to happen. 527 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 4: I believed him, thankfully, and kept working on the game. 528 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 4: But you know, there's a point where they're thinking, maybe 529 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 4: it's not going to happen after all, which is so 530 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 4: bizarre in retrospect, but I mean, hindsight's twenty twenty. 531 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're right, like you think now, of course 532 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: the NBA is going to attach their name to that. 533 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: As we just said, it made a billion dollars, but 534 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: at the time, no, that was not the case. They 535 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: had to convince them to you know, hey, they had 536 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: to convince that. The NBA had to be convinced to 537 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: be paid money, right, you know, and a licensing sum. 538 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: And then they also made I think you said, like 539 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: one hundred dollars on each cabinet sold. But someone had 540 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: to convince them to, you know, do that, which is 541 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: mind boggling. 542 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 4: It's just crazy. Yeah, So it was so cool talking 543 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 4: to him and getting that story. And then Michelle Brown, 544 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 4: who worked over and licensing at the NBA, was another 545 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 4: cool get for the book. I mean, getting both sides 546 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 4: of the stories what I wanted to do. So I 547 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 4: have both the person who was at Midway trying to 548 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 4: get the license, and the person at the NBA who 549 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 4: was going to give the license, and hearing her feedback, 550 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 4: you know, really added another level to it as well. 551 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 4: So just trying to see as much nuance as I could, 552 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 4: because with big stories like this, you know, you always 553 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: see the big faces, those main players, but there's all 554 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 4: these amazing people behind the scenes who are so key 555 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 4: to a game that might not necessarily get the same 556 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: kind of recognition. 557 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: Well, you slipped it in there, and I heard you 558 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: on another podcast not too long ago, I believe it 559 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: was the live period, talking about this idea when they 560 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: were first pitching it to the NBA. 561 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: The game that it. 562 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: Was, like you said, like more realistic. 563 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't this exaggerated reality where guys are jumping thirty 564 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: feet in the air and guys are on fire and 565 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: all the fun things we love about NBA JAM, but 566 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: that there was like also like this weird point of 567 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: view camera from the eyes of the ball handler, and 568 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: then there was gonna be instant replay. It's like, wow, 569 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, good job on scrapping all of that, because 570 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: I don't think this would be a legendary game if 571 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: they had gone with a lot of those things. 572 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 573 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 4: I mean, it's funny if you could take, like, let's 574 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 4: say you take the earliest version of NBA Jam and 575 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 4: then you compare it to the actual game that came 576 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 4: out totally different ideas. For example, the earliest version, like 577 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 4: you said, it was realistic, it was lifelike. 578 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 3: It had this cutaway. 579 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 4: Perspective for the dunks, which would be cool for like, 580 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: you know, once or twice, but if you see it 581 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 4: every time, you get sick of it and would totally 582 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 4: kill the flow. 583 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: Of the action. 584 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 4: It had a coach mode, it had all kinds of 585 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 4: different stuff in there. Yeah, and oh and then even 586 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: like let's say the things that you do love, even 587 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 4: those things necessarily didn't have to happen, like the dunks. 588 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 4: That was something because Mark Tremelo was playing around with 589 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 4: the dunks in the game, and somebody else in the 590 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 4: office came by and said, how about you make the 591 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 4: players jump like ten feet tall or ten feet higher 592 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 4: or two or three times their height, and then people 593 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 4: then mart Tramelo was like, I'm not sure that's such 594 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 4: a good idea, but Jarvis was like, try it, and 595 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 4: then Tremel's like, wow, this is you know, this is 596 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: really something, and I mean stuff like that that just happened. 597 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 4: I mean on fire that was inspired by a trip 598 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 4: to Burger King and which I get into a little 599 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: bit of the book, and not necessarily by you know, 600 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 4: a whopper nothing flame grilled at flame broil at a 601 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 4: Burger King. 602 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 3: But it was all created over trip to Burger King. 603 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 4: So it's really cool seeing all these things that just 604 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 4: kind of happened organically over the creation of the game. 605 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 4: Even the commentator, he was not the original commentator for 606 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 4: the game. It was actually the sound guy. 607 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 3: Who was pitched. 608 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 4: But you know, these things got change over the time 609 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 4: period of making them and they grow into something else. 610 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: So it was really cool to like learn about NBA 611 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 4: Jam being something that was not the NBA Jam that 612 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 4: we know today. 613 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: How many of the people do you know that worked 614 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: on the game were NBA fans, because I know Mark 615 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: Turmel was of course, I mean he was a big 616 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: Pistons fan, and he actually like there's all these little 617 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: like you know, coding in the game if the Pistons 618 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: are playing the Bulls that the Pistons are generally going 619 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: to come out on top. All these fun little things 620 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: because he was a fan. But we're like a lot 621 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: of the other you know, developers and stuff like that, 622 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: like do they have any idea or they fans of 623 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: basketball or they're just like, I don't know, I guess 624 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: we'll just make this fun game. 625 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, what's funny is that? So there's only seven people 626 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 4: that made NBA Jam. Seven people, which just blows my mind. 627 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 4: I mean, look at any. 628 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: Top to your title today and you've got a gazillion 629 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: people on there. Yeah. 630 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, you. 631 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 3: Really have seven people. 632 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 4: And then you've got some hardware people Roger Sharp and 633 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 4: marketing executives things like that, but fundamentally seven people, and 634 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 4: out of those seven, i'd say probably three were basketball fans. 635 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so well it's funny. Yeah. 636 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 4: I mean some of the guys were just like, we 637 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 4: want to make a fun arcade game. But I think 638 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 4: in some ways that really helped because they. 639 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 3: Were bringing hold of her perspective. 640 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, of like, let's say make it so that the 641 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 4: guy off the street who does not care at all 642 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 4: about the NBA or about Midway or anything like that, 643 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 4: we'll be able to see this game and say, wow, 644 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 4: this is pretty cool. So yeah, just I think not 645 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 4: even half. Well, you can't do half of seven like that. 646 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 4: But yeah, three of the three members of the team 647 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 4: I think were basketball fans, and they're the ones who 648 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 4: came up with things like the stats. They came up 649 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: with a lot of the different, different little tweaks of 650 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 4: the game that made it so wife like. 651 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 3: So it's pretty cool. 652 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: The attributes you've talked about sort of to each player 653 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: in the game was sort of like, I don't know 654 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: if it was a late addition, but yeah, it wasn't 655 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: there at the beginning. It's like, hold on, John Stockton 656 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: shouldn't be dunking like Carl Malone or being you know, 657 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: Carl Malone, shouldn't be as fast as John Stockton, stuff 658 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: like that, until somebody said, oh, yeah, maybe we should 659 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: like tweak that a little bit exactly. 660 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 4: And I mean there was also the idea that the 661 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 4: players that were chosen for the game were pretty much 662 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 4: just picked by Mark Tremmel, and I think it was 663 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 4: the sound guy John Hey, so Tremelo John Hey would 664 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 4: go in and go through the newspaper at the time, 665 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 4: NBA jam was coming out to look at the box 666 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 4: scores and say, okay, who's good this week? Who's this person, 667 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 4: who's that person? And I mean, this is a course 668 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 4: without instant access to information like we've got right now 669 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: where we can say, okay, let's just find the top players. 670 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 4: And this is their case. They didn't know anything about 671 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 4: the Bucks. I'm guessing so that's how Blue Edwards and Brad. 672 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: Lowhouse ended up in there. 673 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 4: I think they're just like, let's just grab some guys, 674 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 4: you know, But yeah, that's what they would do. That's 675 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 4: just how ramshackle was. I mean, nowadays, you'd probably have 676 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 4: to go through like a gazillion levels of licensing in 677 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 4: order to get everybody approved. But back then it was 678 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 4: pretty ramshackle. And the NBA made some adjustments to what 679 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 4: Midway sends in. But they're the ones who asked for 680 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 4: Mikeyzelino on the Mavericks. 681 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure of that. 682 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's so weird, Like you said, it's like 683 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: they were just picking up box scores and articles. So 684 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: you're like, right, Brad Lohas like go off one night 685 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: and the next day they happened to pick up the 686 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: newspaper like, oh, better put Brad in the game on 687 00:26:59,640 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: the map. 688 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 2: Like that's what it feels like, right. 689 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 3: That's probably what happened. 690 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, that's got to be what happened, because like, 691 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 4: why would you pick these some of these players, Like, 692 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 4: there's other options out there, So I mean, honestly, I 693 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 4: don't know what compelled them to pick some of these 694 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 4: individual choices, but it was definitely pretty ramshackle, and it 695 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 4: was way less organized than you'd think. 696 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 2: Do you have a go to NBA Jam team. 697 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: It's always got to be the Jazz. 698 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: I mean you're talking about the attributes thing earlier, Yeah, 699 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 4: because the Jazz, to me, they represent NBA Jam just 700 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 4: in its classic distilled form, because you've got you've got 701 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 4: a big man, you've got a small man, you've got dunks, 702 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 4: you've got three point shots, you've got the whole genesis 703 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 4: of the game involved over there too, because yeah, it 704 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 4: was Stockton playing the game, or rather Stockton's avatar on 705 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 4: the screen when somebody said somebody who's playing the game 706 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 4: said hey, keep the ball away from Stockton, he might 707 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 4: steal it. Now, of course they thought Stockton would steal it, 708 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 4: because Stockton's good steal in real life. But at that point, 709 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 4: Stockton was not actually better than stealing than Karl Malone, 710 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 4: they could probably both do the same amount, And then 711 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 4: the Midway guys were watching this as it happened in 712 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 4: the arcade and like, oh, we should probably make it 713 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 4: so that Stockton alone have different attributes. 714 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 3: So they were so. 715 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 4: Important to that story that I really love them. Plus 716 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 4: that jazz logo, I mean that jazz logo is one 717 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 4: of the first things that I love. Those headshots are 718 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 4: just iconic to me. So in terms of the original game, 719 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 4: definitely has to be the Jazz t definitely has to 720 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 4: be Sean Camp and Gary Payton because I have a 721 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 4: special love for them too. 722 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: Nice nicess, Yes, because that's the thing. Gary Payton not 723 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: in the original arcade version of NBA JAM That's right, 724 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: No Jordan, No Gary Payton. But as the story goes, 725 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: GP actually ultimately wanted to be in the game, so 726 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: they sent him right his own custom version or something 727 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: like that. 728 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: Exactly right. 729 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, So Jordan, Gary Payton, and then weirdly Ken Griffy 730 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 4: Junior all wanted to be in the game at the 731 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 4: same time. They all knew the same people, had the 732 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 4: same agent or management or something like that, and then 733 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 4: somebody got in touch with Midway. I'm pretty sure from 734 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 4: Jordan's camp and said they wanted to be included to 735 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 4: somehow Gary pay gets roped into it in Ken Griffy Junior. 736 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 4: And that means that there's now a limited edition version 737 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 4: of NBAJAM out there in the world, and only a 738 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: couple of different places confirmed that has the regular roster 739 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 4: plus Michael Jordan, Gary Payton and Ken Griffrey Junior as 740 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 4: selectable characters, which is just so bizarre, but it's so cool. 741 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 2: And so this is in somebody's house in theory, like 742 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: Gary Payton. 743 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 4: Has it Gary Payton's house, Gary Payton's house in California. 744 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 4: He's got two of them in mid condition, and he 745 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 4: has yet to take any photo or video proof. He's 746 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 4: just talked about it before and it's like, Gary, what 747 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: are you doing? 748 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: Come on, man, help us out. We'd love to see this. 749 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 3: People would go wild. 750 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 4: To see actual actual Michael Jordan NBA JAM, no modding, 751 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 4: no hacking, and no updating after the fact, actual MBA 752 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 4: JAM Michael Jordan from the early nineties. 753 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: That would just be that would be next level. 754 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 4: So Gary has yet to show us what it all 755 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 4: looks like, but it's out there somewhere. 756 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: That's incredible. One of those should be in the honestly, 757 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 2: the Basketball Hall of Fame. 758 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: I feel like one hundred percent. Yeah, that's the perfect 759 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 3: spot for it. 760 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and the fact that he's got them in mint 761 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 4: condition just even makes it more tantalizing, Like, Oh, you're 762 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 4: telling me that you've got them and they just look 763 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 4: brand new, like the day that they were shipping to 764 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 4: your house. Are you kidding me? 765 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's probably never played with them, you got. 766 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: He's probably brought all this trouble to get one and 767 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: he's like, Ah, I don't feel like playing it. 768 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 4: I don't have a quarter exactly. They're down there somewhere. Yeah, 769 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 4: just might as well, Yeah, let them let them stay 770 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 4: over there. So yeah, it's amazing how many people of 771 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 4: note have NBA jam machines or used to have NBA 772 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 4: jam machines. So in the nineties, this is one of 773 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 4: the stories that didn'tell in the book. This is a 774 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 4: real fun quick aside. But Larry Johnson was in the 775 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 4: Larry Johnson was in the classic NBA jam commercial. So 776 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 4: get on YouTube, look up NBA Jam commercial and then 777 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 4: it's a really great spot. But at the very end, 778 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 4: for an extra two seconds, you can see Larry Johnson 779 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 4: like he's doing one of his classic I think it's 780 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 4: like a dunk or something, and he's like he's making 781 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 4: some kind of face or screaming. It's a really great 782 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 4: visual and I think it's from an old NBA highlights tape. 783 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 3: One away. The guys at a Claim. 784 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 4: Who made the film version of NBA Jam, they wanted 785 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 4: to use this to end their ad because they're like, 786 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 4: this is such a great visual, I mean, you absolutely 787 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 4: want to put it on there. 788 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 3: Well, what's funny. 789 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 4: Is that the way their licensing agreement with the NBA 790 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 4: was set up is that every player had to be 791 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 4: on the screen for the same exact amount of time 792 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 4: and if it went over then there would be an 793 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 4: extra cost. So everybody else was like one second or 794 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 4: a quarter second or whatever. But Larry Johnson was very 795 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 4: clearly on there for like two seconds, like a long time. 796 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 4: So Larry Johnson is you know, he's out there. His 797 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 4: likeness is tied to the NBA. But a Claim is 798 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 4: real worried. So a Claim says, I mean, this is 799 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 4: gonna be a real big issue. If we're gonna have 800 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 4: to recut our ad of the last second, what are 801 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 4: we gonna do is he going to make some kind 802 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 4: of financial issue out of this? So anyways, Acclaim Management 803 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 4: contacts Larry Johnson and Larry says, it's totally fine, just 804 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 4: as long as I can get two NBA JAM arcade machines, 805 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 4: one for his place in North Carolina and one for 806 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 4: his mom's house next door. And they were like sure, yeah, 807 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 4: we'll send him on over and they gaved a bunch 808 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 4: of money and it was everybody who's happy. In the end, 809 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 4: Larry j justsin got his arcade machines. But yeah, at 810 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 4: one point in North Carolina you could go two You 811 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 4: find two homes next to each other with nbajam machines 812 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 4: in nine ninety three or ninety four, which is crazy. 813 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Do you know how much it cost to first off 814 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: make the arcade version of the game, like the whole thing, 815 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: the cabinet and everything, and then what it would cost 816 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: maybe someone like you know that had their own arcade 817 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: shop or like a seven eleven or something to buy one. 818 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: Do you have it like the details on that. 819 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have the details. In terms of the 820 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 4: cost to make the machine. I'd probably guess it's gonna 821 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 4: be somewhere. It'd probably be relatively pretty cheap when you 822 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 4: think about it, because Midway owned the factory too. They 823 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 4: weren't shipping at someplace else. It was all in house, 824 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 4: so the developers were there, the arcade machines were there. 825 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 4: I mean, this also adds to the mythology of NBA 826 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 4: jams that is all from the same place, like there's 827 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 4: nothing anyplace else, It's all that one place in Chicago. 828 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: But yeah, in terms of. 829 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 4: Getting an nbajam machine of your own in the early nineties, 830 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 4: it'll probably run you about let's say thirty five hundred 831 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 4: and four thousand, forty five hundred dollars give or take, Yeah, 832 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 4: which would be which might be a lot. But keep 833 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 4: in mind with this is that back in the day 834 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 4: there actually should be these distributor networks, so that what 835 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 4: that would mean is that let's say at your local 836 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 4: seven eleven you saw that NBA jam, Well, that NBA 837 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 4: jam might have been at a different seven eleven or 838 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 4: a totally different location, and they move them around basically 839 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 4: to see if there's demand. And obviously, if the machine 840 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 4: keeps generating money, it'll stay there forever. But when the 841 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 4: machine stops making money, they'll move to a different location. 842 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 3: Or send it back to the distributor. 843 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 4: So there's a whole chain of these people who you 844 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 4: wouldn't really see because it was kind of the administrative 845 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 4: overhead of the arcade business, these operators and distributors who 846 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 4: would have these networks of games that they send out. 847 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 4: So that would mean there would be like a warehouse 848 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 4: somewhere with a gazillion arcade games in there that they 849 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 4: would then send out as needed to whomever need an 850 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 4: arcade game. 851 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 3: Right when it was hot. It was like a middleman 852 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 3: to something exactly a middleman. 853 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, Midway would never send it over 854 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 4: someplace directly, unless it was something like Gary Paigne or 855 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 4: Michael Jordan our special quest. 856 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like the guy that owned the seven 857 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: eleven Strafford actually owned that NBA gym. For some reason, 858 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: thought that as a kid, like, Wow, this guy's cool man, 859 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: he's got hot dogs here Slurpe's, and he bought this 860 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: here for the corner. 861 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 2: This guy's awesome. 862 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 4: Yeah No, no, he was probably giving a cut to 863 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 4: the guy who's the distributor. 864 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think that's more likely. Yeah, this book 865 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: is not is that you wrote. It is a lot 866 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: more than just NBA gam and how it came about. 867 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: It is about, like you said, the rise and fall 868 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: of like arcade gaming and then specifically this company in Chicago. 869 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: Like I love that you say it, Like Detroit made cars, 870 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh made steel, in Chicago made coin up games, and 871 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, like why how did it start there? 872 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 3: That's a great question. 873 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 4: I think that some of the steps back to I 874 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 4: think the mafia roots, honestly, because that I think that's 875 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 4: had something to do with it. Anything involving machines and 876 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 4: taking money, putting quarters in things like that always has 877 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 4: kind of a shady history. So I've been I've heard 878 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 4: rumblings that there's actually roots in the arcade, Chicago's arcade 879 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 4: business in its connection to the mafia. But then otherwise, 880 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 4: I think it was because Chicago was right place, the 881 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 4: right time for a lot of things. I mean, that's 882 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 4: where pinball was invented, That's where the first pinball games 883 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 4: came from, and there must have been something there around 884 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 4: that time where everybody was just congregating over there and 885 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 4: making these amazing games. 886 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. I always wondered what it is about Chicago in particular. 887 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 4: I mean, there's a few things that make it good 888 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 4: like as in, you know, you can have easy access 889 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 4: to lots of different, you know, lots of workers because 890 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 4: you're right there in the Midwest, You've got access to 891 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 4: you know, wood and steel to actually make the games. 892 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 4: But as to what was Chicago's magical element, you know, 893 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 4: my gut tells me that it's something crime related or 894 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 4: something that you would not necessarily expect. But then, of course, 895 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 4: at some point somebody came by who was just so 896 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 4: great at making pinball games or some kind of coin 897 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 4: operated games, that place became the headquarters. 898 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we got lots more still to discuss, 899 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: but first a quick break. 900 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 5: Sunday scaries, especially formulated CBD gummies with vitamins D three 901 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 5: and B twelve that are super consumable and easy to 902 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 5: take on the go. Especially formulated CBD products with vitamins 903 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 5: can help out in all sorts of ways. 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Find out what 919 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 5: product might be best for you, So go to Sunday Scaries 920 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 5: dot com and use code no dunks. 921 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: Back to Turmel, you slipped it in there. 922 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: You were talking about that idea where he came up 923 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: with this plan to program the game clock to like 924 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: speed up or slow down throughout the game and it 925 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: would affect the pace. That's just like a weird, little 926 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: brilliant thing that works so well in this game. The 927 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: other thing that is just it might be My favorite 928 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: part when I think about it, of NBA Jam, outside 929 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: of like debating the teams and like the guys, because 930 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm such an NBA geek, but the idea that he 931 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: put in this, I think you called it rubber banding, 932 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: these percentages that would keep the scores on like this 933 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: sort of like Seesaw Affair, like close, and you say 934 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: it perfectly, Team one had been scoring more than Team two. Well, 935 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: NBA Jam, through this rubber banding would decrease Team One's 936 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: chances of scoring another shot and increase teams too, So 937 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: you would artificially create these sort of close games that 938 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: almost always ended, you know, like almost a buzzer beater 939 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 1: or a final shot. 940 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 2: Attempt like that is. 941 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: I think that's the brilliance of this game because you 942 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: could play I've played it recently with a friend, and 943 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: every game we played was basically down to the final 944 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: possession because of this basically again, like I said, this, 945 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: like artificial rubber banding. 946 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I think this is all old 947 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 4: school arcade stuff that Tremella learned, like little tricks here 948 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 4: and there from Eugene Jarvis, who was the defender, creator, 949 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 4: the creative defender, the creator of Robotron worked on Smash 950 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 4: TV with him, worked on narc and Cruising USA. So 951 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 4: there was a whole group of these midway guys that 952 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 4: knew the arcade business and ways to exploit things and 953 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 4: you know, tweaks to make the game look better, move faster. 954 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 4: I mean, the whole idea is that when you play 955 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 4: NBA Jam, you want immediate gratification, you want stuff to happen. 956 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 3: You also want something cool to happen. 957 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 4: So that's why just pretty much anybody can do an 958 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 4: amazing dunk, Like you don't have to know NBA Jam 959 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 4: in order to dunk an NBA Jam. 960 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 3: You can just pretty much hit a button, He'll duck. 961 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 3: It'll look amazing. 962 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, but when it came down to those finer points, 963 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 4: somebody I'm sure gave Tremil's some advice on that, and 964 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 4: the idea is that, yeah, we want to squeeze people 965 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 4: for as much as they're worth and make them feel 966 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 4: that they have to put in a quarter to play 967 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 4: again if it gets tied, or they really have to 968 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 4: put their back into it and try to figure out 969 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 4: a way to win at the last minute. I mean, 970 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 4: it was just so devious and it's so brilliant. I 971 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 4: mean sometimes it becomes really obvious when you play in BAJAM, like, Okay, 972 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,439 Speaker 4: this is not fair. I was just doing crazy good 973 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 4: and now I cannot make a bucket for the life 974 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 4: of me. I mean sometimes it gets really obvious and 975 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 4: some people. In fact, NBAJAM is always associated with love 976 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 4: and positivity, like, oh I love nbajam best game ever, 977 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 4: aside from the people who've been burned by that we banding, 978 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 4: Like the people who've been in a match where it's 979 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 4: like they got screwed over for good, like that is 980 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 4: too heartbreaking for them. And I think there's a group 981 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 4: of people, small sound minority out there who have not 982 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 4: recovered from the from the pain of Mark Tremelo's river banding. 983 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 3: But that was definitely a thing. Yeah, you can make it. 984 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've definitely had my fair share of losses. 985 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: My you know, sixty foot shot at the buzzer that 986 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: somebody just underhand scooped in. 987 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 2: You're like, what the hell. 988 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, It'scara bitche Yeah. Oh. 989 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 4: Somebody just told me the other day that they had 990 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,479 Speaker 4: one of their most vivid memories was going to movie 991 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 4: theater in the early nineties playing NBA jam someplace against 992 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 4: somebody and he scored a buzzer beater three pointer with 993 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 4: shack with shack, and the other guy was just totally aghast. 994 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 4: But where is this for the person who won? I mean, 995 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,959 Speaker 4: that was like the highlight of his life. He still 996 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 4: remembers that so and I would too. But I mean 997 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 4: that's just how NBA JAM was, and. 998 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 3: I mean that's really why we're still playing it. 999 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 4: I mean, there's a past a certain point. Nostalgia has 1000 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 4: its limits. You know, you love the thing the way 1001 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 4: it was, you might go back and look at it 1002 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 4: for a bit, but you're not going to spend a 1003 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 4: lot of time with it. You're not really going to 1004 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 4: dedicate all that energy or that brain power to focusing 1005 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 4: on NBA JAM. 1006 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,439 Speaker 3: It isn't actually the game. 1007 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 4: And this is really to the credit of Tremell and 1008 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 4: his team that they made it so that we're playing 1009 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 4: at you know, twenty five, twenty seven, whatever it is, 1010 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 4: years later, and it's still just such a great game 1011 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 4: because they were very careful about everything they did. 1012 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,919 Speaker 3: They poured so much passion into it. So nbagam really 1013 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 3: holds up. 1014 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, I'm glad you said that. 1015 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't like they sure, Okay, I'm sure with anything 1016 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: you create, there's a little luck to like, oh let's 1017 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: try that and it just takes off like fire. But yeah, 1018 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: from your reporting and what I really took from the 1019 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: book is like these guys would study, like legit like 1020 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: study these implements in the game to see how people reacted, 1021 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: like to the point where like they would just like 1022 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: hang out our arcades and just sort of watch how 1023 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: people played the game right and what they were saying 1024 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,280 Speaker 1: and like, oh, this screen could be sped up faster 1025 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: or stuff like that. I think that's the fascinating part. 1026 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: They were just like doing basically studies on it. 1027 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 4: Absolutely, Yeah, that was a big thing that the Midway 1028 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 4: guys would do. So Midway, of course they turned their 1029 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 4: two they made NBA Jam, they made the Mortal Kombat series. 1030 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 4: So these guys were arcade veterans, and what they'd do 1031 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 4: is they would have they would do something special to 1032 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 4: celebrate a game's opening night on tests is what it 1033 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 4: was called. That's the first night that your game's out 1034 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 4: there somewhere in public where people can play it. So 1035 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 4: everybody would get together and be someplace in a restaurant 1036 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 4: or an arcade watching people play the game for the 1037 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 4: first time, taking notes, quietly talking amongst themselves without interacting 1038 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 4: with the player themselves, which is so fascinating. I mean yeah, 1039 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 4: it's pretty old school, just sitting there literally watching people 1040 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 4: for feedback. Yeah, I mean yeah, but you don't have 1041 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 4: the same immediate access to analytics and you want to 1042 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 4: get an idea of how that user experience is. So 1043 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 4: that was what they would do back in the day. 1044 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 4: You know, John Tobias who co created Mortal Kombat, he 1045 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 4: has a really vivid memory that he wrote about it's 1046 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 4: on his blog somewhere about how he remembers when the 1047 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 4: Bulls I think they won would have been their second championship, 1048 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 4: and that's right when Mortal Kombat came out. So he 1049 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 4: like associated that so much with like his main memory 1050 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 4: of his own game being this huge hit on test 1051 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 4: was when there was Bulls fever, so that whole NBA jam, 1052 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 4: you know, the bast Ball Midway Arcade connection, like it 1053 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 4: was really a match made in heaven. 1054 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 3: I mean, everything was right at that time. 1055 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1056 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: Oh, just even the nineties, I mean just everything going 1057 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: on in the nineties with basketball, just the incredible talent 1058 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: and like you said, Jordan's Bulls finally getting over the 1059 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,959 Speaker 1: hump and winning their titles. You had the dream team, 1060 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: he had inside stuff. I mean, this is all the 1061 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: stuff I grew up with. Like a lot of listeners 1062 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: I'm sure out there did starters, jackets and round ball 1063 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 1: rock Like it was just like it was cool to 1064 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: be an NBA fan. That's just at its core because 1065 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: of the players, and because the style of the game 1066 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: and all the stuff around it, the shoes and all 1067 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: the fashion and stuff like that. 1068 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 4: Definitely, so many personalities, so many amazing characters. I mean, 1069 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 4: these people are just they really are on another level 1070 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 4: in my mind in terms of how I've made them 1071 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 4: iconic because of things like NBA Jam and because of 1072 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 4: basketball cards just where they're always forever mortalizing slam dunks. 1073 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, these guys were just amazing. And the 1074 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 4: timing was so perfect with NBA JAM, like you said, 1075 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 4: the dream Team, that was just the right time think 1076 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,879 Speaker 4: about this dream team was Summer ninety two, NBA Jam 1077 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 4: hits our Chaides in Chicago for the first time in December, 1078 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 4: Like that's just crazy good, crazy good timing. 1079 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 3: Like the chances of that happening. 1080 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 4: Like you can't really foresee something like the dream Team 1081 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 4: happening or then be being that big. But everything worked 1082 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 4: out in Nbajam's favor, and that was one of the 1083 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 4: big reasons they had so much immediate success. 1084 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 2: One more thing. 1085 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: About something that Mark Tremel program that I had a 1086 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: question about. You said he put in wild hairs, and 1087 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: that was surprising. Game behaviors triggered under rare circumstances. Could 1088 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: you give me, like an example of what that would 1089 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: have been a wild hair in this game? 1090 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's see, and wild hair would be let's say. 1091 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 4: You've been playing the game with your buddy and you 1092 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 4: guys have been goaltending the whole game, yep, and it'll 1093 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 4: catch the goaltending each time it'll say pomp pomp, goaltending, 1094 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 4: and or whatever will happen. But Mark Tremell would program 1095 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 4: it so that one time out of however many you 1096 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 4: would goaltend and the game wouldn't count it. So basically, 1097 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 4: like how in real life, sometimes you know, you just 1098 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 4: get lucky, the referee misses something, something happens somehow, just 1099 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 4: crazy stupid luck. Tramell would do little things like that. 1100 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 4: So that was the one example I could think of. 1101 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,760 Speaker 4: And then the other one of the more well known 1102 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 4: things that isn't so much a wild hair, but it's 1103 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 4: kind of along those lines, is the backboard shattering. So 1104 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 4: they made it so that, yeah, if you had a 1105 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 4: certain sequence of moves you performed, and I think it 1106 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 4: was the score was a certain way or something in 1107 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 4: the fourth period, you would sho out of the backboard 1108 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,320 Speaker 4: if you dunked at a certain time, and of course 1109 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 4: if you're not expecting it, that is just wow, that's incredible. 1110 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 3: You shattered the backboard. 1111 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 4: And so yeah, this was another one of the things 1112 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 4: that he programmed in. So Tamuel was very big about 1113 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 4: giving people little secrets, little things that would make them 1114 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 4: very interested in the game and wanted to come back 1115 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 4: to it. I mean, it was really the Midway mentality. 1116 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 4: I mean, you go back to Moral Combat. Those games 1117 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 4: has so many cheat codes in them and these secret 1118 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 4: fatalities and all this lore. So they were really like 1119 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 4: trying to give the player as much as they could 1120 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,760 Speaker 4: so that they would keep spending money on the game. 1121 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that alone, like just the secret characters and 1122 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: all the codes that you could load into this NBA 1123 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: gam game. And you're right, like at the time, you 1124 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: got to remember there's no there's no real internet where 1125 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: we're all jumping on and sharing all of our codes 1126 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: that we found out and all that, and we know, 1127 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: here's the whole list. Like it was like you heard 1128 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: from your buddy's cousin who came up from Ohio that 1129 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: if you did this and you put in these initials, 1130 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: that you could unlock so and so and you're like, what, 1131 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: no way, and like then you had to go check 1132 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:00,919 Speaker 1: it out. 1133 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 2: Like that helped. 1134 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,279 Speaker 1: I think the game's popularity so much, like these these 1135 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: rumors of like who are the characters and what you 1136 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: could do in this game. 1137 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 2: Even if they were fake. 1138 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: Like I remember all the time people saying like, oh, 1139 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's in the game and Oprah's in the game. 1140 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't think they were unless I'm wrong, 1141 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 1: But you know, it was just like fun thinking they 1142 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: might be. 1143 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean yeah. 1144 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 4: That's what's so great about NBA Jam is that you 1145 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,919 Speaker 4: could still realistically believe if I told you, like right now, 1146 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 4: totally straight faced, they just found a rom like an 1147 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 4: old version of NBA Jam and our Senio Hall is 1148 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 4: in it. If I told you that you'd be like, well, 1149 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 4: that's crazy, but you wouldn't say there's no way that 1150 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 4: can happen, because in Bajam, it can happen that our 1151 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 4: senior hall just having to be in there and nobody 1152 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,840 Speaker 4: ever noticed. Yeah, they would do stuff like this, and 1153 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 4: what's funny is that Tremell would actually encourage it. So 1154 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 4: this was a story that I don't think made it 1155 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 4: to the book. But there was somebody else who called 1156 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 4: up Tremmel for a code to double check something about 1157 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 4: the cheerleaders being in the game, and Tremell would lead 1158 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,279 Speaker 4: on this player to say, maybe they're in there, maybe 1159 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 4: they're not. Now they are no actually playable cheerleaders in 1160 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 4: this version. But Trel would love to mess with people 1161 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 4: a little bit, love to troll people a little bit, 1162 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 4: get a rise out of them, and get them to 1163 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 4: get their imagualate imaginations flowing, so that people would go 1164 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 4: to the arcade and try fifty different combinations, of course, 1165 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 4: spending money along the way trying fifty combinations in locked people. 1166 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 4: Tremell encourages himself too, and there was a kind of 1167 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 4: a funny story where somebody else in the office called 1168 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:21,560 Speaker 4: him out on its like why are you doing this 1169 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 4: man and Tremell was like, oh my bad. 1170 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 3: But it was just like it's just the culture of 1171 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 3: how they made games. 1172 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,399 Speaker 4: They want to keep you interested, they want to keep 1173 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 4: you coming back, so they'll say, you know, maybe so 1174 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,399 Speaker 4: and so is in the game. 1175 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 3: Have you tried this code? Well, maybe you're not underny 1176 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 3: the right circumstances. Maybe you need to do this. And 1177 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 3: I'd be cra as a kid. 1178 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 4: It would, it would, And I mean these guys would 1179 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 4: have their own kind of leaks in a way, or 1180 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,479 Speaker 4: they would, you know, they'd respond to them or say 1181 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 4: I can't confirm neither you. 1182 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 3: Know nor deny. So it would. 1183 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 4: It would be a whole thing. But they were very 1184 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 4: very cagey and how they did it. They knew what 1185 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 4: they were doing, you know, they knew that it was 1186 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 4: going to lead to more money in more interest. 1187 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 3: But it was a smart move. 1188 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,919 Speaker 2: What is this secret tank game? In m knows? 1189 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,919 Speaker 1: There's a small little part in the book, But even 1190 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I don't think I've 1191 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: ever even heard of that one. What is the tank game? 1192 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 3: Tank game was one of those things I had not 1193 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 3: heard of until I researched it for the book too. 1194 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, So the tank game is so you have to 1195 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 4: be playing. All four players have to be uh, have 1196 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 4: to coined in, So everybody has to be playing the game, 1197 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 4: and everybody has to do this position called octopus, which 1198 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,240 Speaker 4: is this thing. It sounds ridiculous, I mean it is ridiculous, 1199 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 4: but it's you have to do something with the controllers, 1200 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,800 Speaker 4: like hold them down in a certain way, like everything 1201 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:30,319 Speaker 4: has to be down. 1202 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 3: You're pressing all four buns at the same time. 1203 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 4: So if everybody is doing this very very specific move 1204 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,359 Speaker 4: or this very specific code, it'll go into this three 1205 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 4: D the pseudo three D early nineties looking tank game 1206 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 4: where you can shoot. 1207 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 3: I think you can, Yeah you can. You can shoot 1208 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 3: missiles at other tanks. 1209 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,239 Speaker 1: So like a completely different game. Obviously this is not 1210 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: anyba Jam anymore. Just like loads this other game on the. 1211 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 4: Screen, completely different game that was programmed by the guy 1212 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 4: that did the dunk physics for endbage Jam or the 1213 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 4: room physics. So the guy who's doing a lot of 1214 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 4: the underhood stuff, you know how the players will scale 1215 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 4: up and scale down depending on their perspective. 1216 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 3: That's all this guy, Sean Liptek. 1217 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 4: So one day he was like, yeah, I want to 1218 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,800 Speaker 4: kind of do a three D game at midway someday, 1219 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 4: might as well use this demo over here and put 1220 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 4: it in an NBA Jam as a joke. And what's funny 1221 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 4: is that, you know, you have to do all this 1222 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 4: stuff over there, but you only played it for a 1223 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 4: few seconds, like maybe ten, fifteen, twenty thirty seconds if 1224 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 4: you're really good. And then if you imagine if you 1225 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 4: played the game and you beat the game, every player 1226 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 4: has all the power ups unlocked, so it's like god 1227 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,319 Speaker 4: mode an NBA Jam, So everybody's Turbo, everybody's this, everybody's that, 1228 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 4: So it's like NBA Jam to the max, but you 1229 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 4: have to play the tank game to do it. So 1230 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 4: it was just such like a weird little factoid. And 1231 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 4: what's funny is that when Liptak originally put it in 1232 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 4: the game, the whole intention was for that somebody would 1233 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 4: see this on the snight's matchup screen, they would be 1234 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 4: playing the game, then they would all be able to 1235 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 4: do this and then you know, play with all the 1236 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 4: power ups. But the way that he initially programmed it 1237 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 4: was incorrect, so that you could actually be just seeing 1238 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 4: the demo of NBA Jam without putting any money in 1239 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 4: you do the octopus boom. 1240 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 3: You could play the secret game and have to put 1241 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 3: the quarters here. 1242 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and Midway Brass freaked out. They were like, are 1243 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,280 Speaker 4: you kidding me? You can play a free game. Nobody's 1244 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 4: gonna make any money. 1245 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,280 Speaker 3: And of course who's. 1246 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 4: Gonna sit there and try to do this code when 1247 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 4: you've got NBA Jam. I mean, if it was another 1248 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 4: game that people didn't care about, maybe, but NBA Jam. 1249 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 4: People were playing NBA Jam, so it was much to 1250 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 4: do over nothing. But yeah, like these boards were quickly 1251 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 4: printed up and sent out to be replaced in machines 1252 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 4: and say sorry about that, But it was like one 1253 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,320 Speaker 4: of those things that was, you know, timpus in a teacup. 1254 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,239 Speaker 4: Definitely nothing to write home about in the end, but 1255 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 4: it was a big deal at the time. 1256 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, that one was new to me. I had never 1257 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 2: heard that. 1258 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: That had never that rumor had never made its way 1259 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: or fact had never made its way up to Strafford, Ontario, unfortunately. 1260 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 2: But that that's a cool one. 1261 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: Was there another like favorite little tidbit that you either 1262 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,280 Speaker 1: put in the book or didn't in doing your research 1263 00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:58,399 Speaker 1: about NBA Jam that you learned. 1264 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say this is something that's more based on 1265 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 4: somebody's personal story. But I found really startling was that 1266 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 4: So Tim Kitsrow is the iconic voice of NBA Jam, 1267 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,399 Speaker 4: So boomshaka lucka, he's on fire, he's hitting up all 1268 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 4: that stuff. 1269 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 3: That's all. 1270 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 4: Tim Kitsrow, really talented guy voice actor from Chicago. Well, 1271 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 4: for the original NBA Jam, he only made something like 1272 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 4: one thousand to fifteen hundred bucks. 1273 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 3: That's it. 1274 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 4: That's it, which at the time sounded like a great 1275 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,640 Speaker 4: deal to him when he was just an actor who's 1276 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 4: getting paid fifty bucks an hour to do this. 1277 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 3: This is awesome. 1278 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 4: But then NBA Jam goes on to be NBA Jam 1279 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 4: and make a billion dollars and Tim gets next to nothing. 1280 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 4: So then fast forward to when the game actually comes 1281 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 4: out on home consoles and Tim has to rerecord it 1282 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 4: because you have to do different clips. You can't use 1283 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 4: darcade clips because they're too long. You have to rerecord 1284 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,719 Speaker 4: them for the home versions. So he goes to a 1285 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 4: claim and he says, well, I made like, you know, 1286 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 4: fifteen hundred dollars last time. I'd like three thousand dollars 1287 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 4: this time. And the claim is pretty much guaranteed to 1288 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 4: sell a gazillion copies. I mean, there's no way that 1289 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,920 Speaker 4: NBA Jam won't sell minimum a million copies. And this 1290 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,879 Speaker 4: is when it's just come out. But a claim still says, no, 1291 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,719 Speaker 4: we would like to pay you the same rate as 1292 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 4: before the fifteen hundred dollars, and Tim Kissker, this iconic 1293 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 4: part of the game, said I don't know, guys, like 1294 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 4: I really would like this doesn't feel right. Then he 1295 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 4: walked away, And so for a moment there, NBA Jam 1296 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,360 Speaker 4: almost had a totally different announcer for the home versions, 1297 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 4: which would have been really crazy because as much as 1298 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 4: you know, you love the arcade version and I love 1299 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 4: going to arcades and all that, there's a totally different 1300 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 4: population that only knows NBA. 1301 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:31,919 Speaker 3: Jam is a home game. 1302 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Like their only exposure is the home you know. 1303 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 4: Superintendent versions sech a Genesis version. So for a minute there, 1304 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,719 Speaker 4: it was as if he would never be in the 1305 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 4: game on the home versions because he wanted to stick 1306 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 4: to his guns on this three thousand dollars figure. And 1307 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 4: then luckily somebody had a claim came to their senses 1308 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 4: and they're like, what are you doing? This is the 1309 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 4: this is the guy, this is the NBA jam Guy 1310 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,520 Speaker 4: and three thousand dollars, again is a drop in the bucket. 1311 00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 4: So they thankfully got a deal works out, and NBAJM 1312 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,319 Speaker 4: ended up selling six million copies on Super Nintendo and 1313 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,000 Speaker 4: Sega Genesis six million copies, not six million dollars, six 1314 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 4: million copies. And that was just the very first iteration 1315 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 4: of Superintendent Sega Genesis saying nothing of te or the 1316 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 4: Game Boy version or any other stuff. 1317 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 3: So that's just how popular it was. 1318 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:17,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1319 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,120 Speaker 1: And then later on, right he does, when they start 1320 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 1: recreating NBA game later on in the years, didn't they 1321 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: go with Marv Albert even instead of him? And that 1322 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: was a horrible decision. 1323 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:29,239 Speaker 2: I don't think much. 1324 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 3: I think that was terribleilt it in, Yeah, it was terrible. 1325 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 4: And what really broke Tim's heart was that he hughes 1326 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,479 Speaker 4: Marv as an inspiration for the game, but he really 1327 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 4: took Marv's commentating to the next level because in an 1328 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 4: arcade game, you have to be you have to turn 1329 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 4: the volume way up, like there's no room for subtlety. 1330 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:46,880 Speaker 4: It's kind of like pro wrestling to some degree, is 1331 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 4: like you need to, you know, play to the bleachers, 1332 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 4: make it big, make it loud. Yeah, and when Marv 1333 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 4: Albert finally somehow. This is just what's crazy about NBA 1334 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 4: Jazz mythology is that the game starts off with a 1335 00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,200 Speaker 4: mar Albert imitation, then actual Marvel Albert joins the series 1336 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,280 Speaker 4: three or four years later, Like that's how fast things work. 1337 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,879 Speaker 4: But Tim's heart was kind of broken because Marv got 1338 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:09,400 Speaker 4: paid one hundred thousand. 1339 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 3: Dollars to be an NBA Jam extreme and. 1340 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,760 Speaker 4: Tim, like I said, made one thousand, three thousand dollars. 1341 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 3: These are tiny sums. 1342 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,399 Speaker 4: And on top of that, Marv Albert didn't really care 1343 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,480 Speaker 4: to deliver an amazing performance. 1344 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,800 Speaker 3: The game wasn't very good. It was just really sad overall. 1345 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 4: But yeah, Marv Albert ended up in NBA JAM, and 1346 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,680 Speaker 4: I think it definitely bothered Tim. Even though he knew 1347 00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,360 Speaker 4: that he was Marv Albert's inspiration, he'd taken that to 1348 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 4: another level. 1349 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's definitely within this book. And knowing what 1350 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: I know about Tim Kitzrow, it's like he is a 1351 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: sad figure in the NBA JAM mythology, like you said, 1352 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,799 Speaker 1: because like it also feels like no one loved contributing 1353 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,400 Speaker 1: to that game more than Tim. 1354 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,680 Speaker 4: Right, Absolutely, he's the guy years later years later, so 1355 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,680 Speaker 4: you can go online and look up Tim Kitsrow. You 1356 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,640 Speaker 4: can get him to leave you voicemails for like twenty 1357 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,400 Speaker 4: five bucks a pop and it'll. 1358 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,719 Speaker 3: Do like recorded recreetings for you. 1359 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 4: And he does conventions, and he still loves NBA JAM 1360 00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,000 Speaker 4: and that era and he still wants to revive So 1361 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,760 Speaker 4: he is the steward of NBA JAM and he's somebody 1362 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,800 Speaker 4: who is still just so unappreciated, which is really sad. 1363 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 4: But I mean that was one of the interesting things 1364 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 4: about working on the book for me, was like I 1365 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 4: was able to tell some of these stories and share 1366 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,280 Speaker 4: this perspective that might not otherwise get out there. Timkeetzer 1367 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 4: might have just been the NBAJAM voice guy who you 1368 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 4: never knew that only made three thousand dollars for when 1369 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 4: it came to the home games. 1370 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, I want to clarify something that I found 1371 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,440 Speaker 1: in my limited research. And again I never heard this, 1372 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,239 Speaker 1: so I don't know if it's true. But was there 1373 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,840 Speaker 1: supposed to be an unlockable court design too, like a 1374 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat level, because you know, you can do all 1375 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,200 Speaker 1: the characters and stuff like that, or is that just. 1376 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 2: A you know, just a fake rumor. 1377 00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,319 Speaker 4: No, that is true, but that's actually true for one 1378 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,239 Speaker 4: of the NBA JAM sequels, So Guts for NBA Showtime. 1379 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was the one that came out in 1380 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 3: the late nineties. 1381 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 4: So this is the one where I think, yeah, this 1382 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,760 Speaker 4: is this is NBA on NBC. 1383 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,399 Speaker 3: This is the one with the round ball rock theme 1384 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 3: in it. 1385 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 4: Okay, And yeah, so there was there were actually planning 1386 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 4: a Mortal Kombat court for NBA Showtime and NBA NB 1387 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,279 Speaker 4: on NBC, but I'm pretty sure the NBA nixed it 1388 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,360 Speaker 4: and said like, no way, no. 1389 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,520 Speaker 3: How is that coming into the game. 1390 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,240 Speaker 4: But actually, yeah, going back to NBA JAM, they actually 1391 00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,239 Speaker 4: put Mortal Kombat characters in one of the very first 1392 00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 4: iterations of Tournament Edition because they're. 1393 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 3: Like, we're going crazy with the secret characters. Let's get 1394 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,720 Speaker 3: these Mortal Kombat guys in there. We own Mortal Kombat, 1395 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,319 Speaker 3: we love Mortal Kombat. It's gonna be a thing. 1396 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,000 Speaker 4: And they did this, of course without telling the NBA, 1397 00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,920 Speaker 4: because in the early nineties, Mortal Kombat was always associated 1398 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 4: with violence. Like everybody, you know, if your mom knew 1399 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,799 Speaker 4: what Mortal Kombat is, the she knew what it was 1400 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,840 Speaker 4: because it was violent. The NBA exactly, yes, And the 1401 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 4: NBA was not happy when they found out that Midway 1402 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,960 Speaker 4: had snuck NBA or Mortal Kombat characters in the Nbajam 1403 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,440 Speaker 4: Tournam edition and made them take them out immediately. But 1404 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 4: they were in there for a little bit. So you 1405 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 4: can find some Mortal Kombat characters in a version of 1406 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,879 Speaker 4: NBA JAM Tournament Edition, which is pretty cool too. 1407 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,960 Speaker 2: That's funny. Did you think they actually cleared any of 1408 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,120 Speaker 2: these secret characters? 1409 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,799 Speaker 1: Like they did it right, Like they didn't go to 1410 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 1: the Clintons and say, hey, can you sign we. 1411 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,680 Speaker 4: Can get you No way, no way, no way, no 1412 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,320 Speaker 4: no no, especially a Claim who did the home versions 1413 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 4: with the really famous secret characters. 1414 00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,400 Speaker 3: I don't think they did anything. 1415 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,320 Speaker 4: So yeah, so Midway did the developers and they started 1416 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,799 Speaker 4: the whole idea, and then a Claim took the ball 1417 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 4: and ran with it. They did, you know, Bill Clinton, 1418 00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,960 Speaker 4: Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, DJJZ Jeff Prince, Charles will Smith, 1419 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. I'm pretty sure there was no 1420 00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,320 Speaker 4: money exchanged hands for the secret characters. 1421 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I got to talk to George Clinton. 1422 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,080 Speaker 4: And DJJZ Jeff for the book, and neither of them 1423 00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,240 Speaker 4: said that they got any money for it. It's kind 1424 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,160 Speaker 4: of sad, you know when you think about it, like 1425 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 4: it's like people are making a lot of money over it. Yeah, 1426 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 4: but this is also the wild West. I mean, the 1427 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,640 Speaker 4: early nineties is totally different from how it is now. 1428 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,160 Speaker 4: Like if somebody did that now immediately within day would 1429 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,600 Speaker 4: be online, that person would be on Blast or somebody 1430 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,800 Speaker 4: would be notified. But back then, it took a while 1431 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,920 Speaker 4: for these secrets to come out, and it's like, oh, 1432 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,320 Speaker 4: it's cool being in a game. I didn't get anything, well, 1433 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,439 Speaker 4: never mind, but it's cool being in there. So yeah, 1434 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 4: you're totally different place. It was a while west back then. 1435 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,240 Speaker 1: I The one thing I struggled with NBA Jim is 1436 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,560 Speaker 1: like keeping track of which games we're talking about, Like 1437 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,040 Speaker 1: NBA Jam the original, then there's Tea but that was 1438 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,520 Speaker 1: also the home console, and then there's these other versions. 1439 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,640 Speaker 1: It's like that's the one part because then you have 1440 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,440 Speaker 1: the different teams too, like your actual two man teams 1441 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:12,960 Speaker 1: are different. 1442 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,439 Speaker 2: It's like, oh my god, it's like mind boggling trying 1443 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:16,080 Speaker 2: to keep track of it. 1444 00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 4: All right, they knew they knew when they stumbled on 1445 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,720 Speaker 4: NBA Jam that they had this huge franchise, Like when 1446 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,000 Speaker 4: it was such a big hit, they knew that they 1447 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,040 Speaker 4: were going to do something with it. And it's weird 1448 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 4: how it all kind of turned out that Acclaim ended 1449 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,520 Speaker 4: up taking over the rights from Midway, So the Home 1450 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,880 Speaker 4: Company ended up getting the rights for the Arcade game 1451 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 4: by Midway and then ended up with the home license 1452 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 4: and then ended up with all the other licenses. 1453 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:39,520 Speaker 3: So it's really kind of weird. 1454 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's honestly NBAJAM games I forget about when 1455 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,720 Speaker 4: I do research, Like, oh yeah, Nbajam with Keith Van 1456 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 4: Horne on the cover, I forgot all about that. Yeah, 1457 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 4: And that was like Nbajam two thousand for the n 1458 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,680 Speaker 4: sixty four. So there's all this stuff out there. So 1459 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,960 Speaker 4: and like Juwan Howard did in motion capture for one 1460 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 4: of the NBA JAM games. Had no idea about that 1461 00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,959 Speaker 4: until I learned about it for the book. But yeah, 1462 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 4: there's all this lower and so much over there. And 1463 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,560 Speaker 4: with NBA Jam, like you could just start going and 1464 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,800 Speaker 4: just keep going forever, like I could just I still 1465 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 4: learn stuff about NBA JAM all the time, which is 1466 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 4: crazy considering I spent four years working on the book 1467 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,840 Speaker 4: and then the book's been out for a bit and 1468 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,240 Speaker 4: I'm still learning stuff all the time, which is just 1469 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 4: a testament to how much love there is for NBA 1470 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,440 Speaker 4: Jam and how much NBA Jam is the gift that 1471 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:22,160 Speaker 4: keeps on giving. 1472 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean you I follow you on Twitter 1473 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,000 Speaker 1: and you know you're tweeting about other things as well, 1474 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: but you're regularly throwing up some new thing. It feels 1475 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: like you found about NBA Jam being a flyer or 1476 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: some other little thing. 1477 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that you've learned. Yeah, it's just always coming in. 1478 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:37,120 Speaker 3: It's amazing. 1479 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,120 Speaker 4: And that's one of the great things about the Internet too, 1480 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,280 Speaker 4: is that I can always go find new stuff like, oh, 1481 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,880 Speaker 4: here's the Japanese version of NBA Jam, or here's the 1482 00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,760 Speaker 4: Japanese TV commercial of NBA Jam. Right, Oh, you know, 1483 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,400 Speaker 4: here's some old flyers like you said that you haven't seen, 1484 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,800 Speaker 4: or here's some statistics that Tamello gave me that it 1485 00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,280 Speaker 4: can put out there. So that's really fun too, is 1486 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,480 Speaker 4: like I'm a big fan of this stuff, so as 1487 00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,960 Speaker 4: a fan, like being able to share being the steward 1488 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,720 Speaker 4: of this stuff, like oh, you get to share the 1489 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,720 Speaker 4: stats on how many people chose the bulls in Chicago 1490 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 4: and this night of the Test, Like I get to 1491 01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 4: share that with the world. 1492 01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 3: Wow. 1493 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 4: So I'm really into that stuff. And yeah, I geek 1494 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,080 Speaker 4: out of that stuff all the time. And there's just 1495 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,480 Speaker 4: so much more stuff to come, so much more stuff 1496 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 4: out there. 1497 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:16,320 Speaker 3: Well. 1498 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,000 Speaker 1: One thing that I loved in reading this your book 1499 01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,800 Speaker 1: and then just doing a little research was that Midway 1500 01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,760 Speaker 1: developer Jake Simpson. He was digitized as the referee who 1501 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,080 Speaker 1: appeared at tip off to launch the ball. But you 1502 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,560 Speaker 1: reminded me that then he vanishes for the rest of the. 1503 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,400 Speaker 3: Game, never exactly there. 1504 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,520 Speaker 2: It's like, why was he ever there in the first place. 1505 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:38,760 Speaker 2: I guess just to chuck the ball up. 1506 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,760 Speaker 1: But I like, as a kid and even into my adulthood, 1507 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,200 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, there is no referee, Like 1508 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: he disappears after he throws the ball. 1509 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:46,440 Speaker 2: It's weird. 1510 01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah. 1511 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,479 Speaker 4: I had no clue that that was a thing until 1512 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 4: I really noticed it many years later while writing this book. 1513 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 4: I was like, this guy goes away and doesn't come back, 1514 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:56,800 Speaker 4: and I feel like I had to like the was 1515 01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 4: it the Mendel effect where you see things that didn't 1516 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 4: happen or you thought I think a certain way, it's like, oh, 1517 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,560 Speaker 4: that referee was there the whole time on the sidelines, right, Well, no, 1518 01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,560 Speaker 4: he just tips off and then he's gone. 1519 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 3: So yeah that that was so. 1520 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 4: Weird to me too, But that's so cool I about 1521 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,480 Speaker 4: NBA Jam another detail that just comes out of nowhere. 1522 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,280 Speaker 2: So I love it again. You've did a phenomenal job 1523 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:16,800 Speaker 2: with this book. 1524 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,600 Speaker 1: You can honestly tell how much you know, effort, you 1525 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,920 Speaker 1: put in love, time into this book because it's a 1526 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,080 Speaker 1: really fun read. Highly recommend everyone go grab a copy 1527 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: right on. What is the best way, the easiest way 1528 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,400 Speaker 1: to let the listeners know how to grab this NBA 1529 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:29,880 Speaker 1: Jam book? 1530 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, just look up NBA Jam book on Amazon. That's 1531 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,200 Speaker 4: the That's probably the quickest way to do it. It's 1532 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,800 Speaker 4: at in paperback, and it is I forget something like 1533 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,360 Speaker 4: two hundred and something pages. Ye, actually it's three hundred 1534 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,360 Speaker 4: something in No, two hundred sixty six page or something. 1535 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it right in front of me here. Yeah, 1536 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,160 Speaker 2: it's little, you know what, It's like. It's a great 1537 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 2: sized book. I wanted to say that. 1538 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:50,360 Speaker 1: I know that's going to sound weird, but I love 1539 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,600 Speaker 1: the size of this book. It's like I appreciate any 1540 01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,920 Speaker 1: smaller I wouldn't like it. It was perfectly I know. 1541 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,800 Speaker 3: It's like a yeah, like a pocket reference for NBA Jam. 1542 01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:58,440 Speaker 3: I kind of like that. 1543 01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, look at up on Amazon. There's a 1544 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,760 Speaker 4: kindle version, there's a paperback version. If you want to 1545 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,520 Speaker 4: sign version, just hit me up on Twitter and I'd 1546 01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 4: be happy to work something. 1547 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 3: Out with you. Yeah. 1548 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,080 Speaker 4: I post all kinds of stuff online all the time 1549 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 4: about old video games, not just NBA Jam but lots 1550 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,760 Speaker 4: of old Midway and arcade games. 1551 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 3: So I'm at NBA. 1552 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,560 Speaker 4: Jam book on there, But otherwise, yeah, just google NBA 1553 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:19,760 Speaker 4: Jam Book and you should be able to find it 1554 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 4: on Amazon or on the publisher's site at bossfightbooks dot com. 1555 01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 4: But you know, if nothing else, you know, if you're 1556 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,000 Speaker 4: out there, please keep that love for NBA Jam alive. 1557 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,880 Speaker 4: Like the series needs to come back, and I'm really 1558 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 4: hoping that somehow all of this is going to lead 1559 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 4: to somehow somebody noticing and being like, Okay, NBA Jam 1560 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,680 Speaker 4: has really come back with a new game, Because now's 1561 01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:39,080 Speaker 4: the time. 1562 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,520 Speaker 1: If this game comes back and you're not a secret 1563 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,680 Speaker 1: character in this game, we're gonna ride. Swear to god, 1564 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,640 Speaker 1: you deserve to be a character in this game. 1565 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:49,720 Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. 1566 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 2: I'll leave you with this. Are you good at NBA Jam? 1567 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 3: Are you like you're. 1568 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,360 Speaker 1: Obviously an expert when it comes to the knowledge of 1569 01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,400 Speaker 1: the game, could you? 1570 01:02:58,440 --> 01:02:59,360 Speaker 3: Oh? No way, no way. 1571 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, okay, I'm like, I would beat 1572 01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 4: the person doesn't know how to play BA Jam. But 1573 01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,480 Speaker 4: if you know what you're doing, you will destroy me. 1574 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 4: And like, I'm one of those people. I love the games, 1575 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,280 Speaker 4: but I and I really do try swear, but I'm 1576 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,880 Speaker 4: just not that good. And I've actually got a buddy who, 1577 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,680 Speaker 4: bless his heart, he's always been very supportive of one 1578 01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,280 Speaker 4: of the first guys to buy a copy of the book, 1579 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,520 Speaker 4: He's played me. He always plays me to NBA Jam 1580 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,760 Speaker 4: and beats me. And he always loves to tell people 1581 01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,439 Speaker 4: that he beat the guy who wrote the book about 1582 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 4: mbajam an NBA Jam. Yeah, and it's a huge feather 1583 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,120 Speaker 4: in his cap and it's very true. 1584 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:30,880 Speaker 3: Sadly. Yeah. 1585 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,360 Speaker 4: No, if we played in Bajam, yeah, you're probably gonna win, 1586 01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,480 Speaker 4: and it won't be as much of a Novelcey as 1587 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,200 Speaker 4: you think it is because I'm not very good, but 1588 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,640 Speaker 4: I try so maybe I'll get better yeah. 1589 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Are you Are you going to buy the what is 1590 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,520 Speaker 1: it one up arcade like this sort of new version 1591 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:45,800 Speaker 1: that you can buy of the game. 1592 01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:47,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the arkid went up. 1593 01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually pre ordered one and it's actually it's 1594 01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,160 Speaker 4: sitting downstairs over here with me someplace, and I've yet 1595 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,000 Speaker 4: to put it together. So this weekend I'm going to 1596 01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,440 Speaker 4: assemble it. So finally NBA Jam will be here. And 1597 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,360 Speaker 4: maybe if I do some other stuff in the future, 1598 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:01,880 Speaker 4: it will be like in the background of a video 1599 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,120 Speaker 4: or if I ever do like an interview or something 1600 01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,680 Speaker 4: like that. But if nothing else, will be something amazing 1601 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,720 Speaker 4: for me to play and hang around with in my basement. 1602 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,800 Speaker 4: It's just like I will be there right in your 1603 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,200 Speaker 4: NBA Jam like, oh, it's this is a trip. So yeah, 1604 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,800 Speaker 4: sometime soon it should be all set up over here. 1605 01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,240 Speaker 4: But I'm very excited about it. I really can't get 1606 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,880 Speaker 4: enough of this stuff, man, Like I'm still really an 1607 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 4: NBA JAM after all this, even though I should be 1608 01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:23,920 Speaker 4: sick of it. 1609 01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,040 Speaker 1: Well, I look forward to seeing some of your photos 1610 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,480 Speaker 1: and videos I'm sure on your Twitter account at NBA 1611 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,080 Speaker 1: jam book once you get that thing up and run, 1612 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:33,400 Speaker 1: and really appreciate you taking the time. 1613 01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:33,640 Speaker 2: I guess. 1614 01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,919 Speaker 1: Final question, do you have plans to write another book, 1615 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,520 Speaker 1: be it a you know, a video game book or 1616 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,120 Speaker 1: something else or just taking a break right now. 1617 01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 3: Definitely want to write another book. 1618 01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,320 Speaker 4: The big thing is based on the time, because I mean, 1619 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,120 Speaker 4: I loved working on this book, but it was it 1620 01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,640 Speaker 4: took so long, and like I said, it was all 1621 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,840 Speaker 4: off hours, so nights, weekends, mornings, playing hooky from work, 1622 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 4: like all kinds of you know, trying to get space 1623 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,240 Speaker 4: and time wherever I could, along with all the life 1624 01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,440 Speaker 4: stuff that happened. So it was really tough. But I 1625 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,360 Speaker 4: definitely want to keep going. I definitely want to do 1626 01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:06,200 Speaker 4: another book. I was thinking about starting it probably next January, 1627 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,440 Speaker 4: and I want to do something pretty different. I'm not 1628 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,200 Speaker 4: entirely sure what it's gonna be yet. I've got a 1629 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,760 Speaker 4: few different ideas. But someday I'm gonna write another video 1630 01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:14,400 Speaker 4: game book, that's for sure. Don't know if it's gonna 1631 01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,880 Speaker 4: be the next one. Next one will probably be something, yeah, 1632 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,960 Speaker 4: completely different. But I'm this is just the start. I 1633 01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:21,720 Speaker 4: have waited a long time to get to this point, 1634 01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,280 Speaker 4: and I am ready to go with many many more books. 1635 01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,439 Speaker 1: That's awesome, man, all Right, well, best of luck, guys. 1636 01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,840 Speaker 1: We got some other fun podcasts lined up for this week. 1637 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,640 Speaker 1: On Tuesday, we're gonna talk to Blake Murphy about the 1638 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,880 Speaker 1: top ten moments in Canadian basketball history. Yes, Canada Day 1639 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 1: is right around the corner. Later this week, we're gonna 1640 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,320 Speaker 1: talk to the internet's hero Schay Serrano is gonna come on. 1641 01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna test his Spurs knowledge on who wants some trivia. 1642 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,040 Speaker 1: So that's gonna be fun. 1643 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:45,400 Speaker 3: Guys. 1644 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,320 Speaker 1: Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen 1645 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,240 Speaker 1: and download the No Dunk's podcast. 1646 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,160 Speaker 3: Clipper Bros. You heard it here first. Have a great time. 1647 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,240 Speaker 3: Turn up, love you guys awesome. 1648 01:05:54,320 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 2: Embrace the day. People, you can stay. 1649 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:08,640 Speaker 3: And I you happy every minute. It's been so long 1650 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:14,160 Speaker 3: that you're the one of waiting for It's happened already. 1651 01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 2: It's gonna be grivy.