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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should know a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, And this is

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know about Northern Kentucky, that's right, which

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Speaker 1: was in the nineteen thirties and forties the casino capital

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Speaker 1: of the United States. It was the Vegas of the

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Speaker 1: United States before Vegas and fifties too. Even it's hard

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Speaker 1: to believe I've never knew any of this. So much

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Speaker 1: of this is very cinematic. I was just trying to

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Speaker 1: work out how to tell the story in a movie

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Speaker 1: without doing flash forwards and flashbacks. But that's probably how

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Speaker 1: you would have to do it. So I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Northern Ohio, which is not that far from Northern Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: on the other end of Ohio from it, because the

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Speaker 1: area we're talking about just across the river from Cincinnati. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I guess I had heard of this before. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where I can't remember if my

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Speaker 1: mind is telling me that I had a memory before

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Speaker 1: I actually had a memory, Like I didn't really have one,

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Speaker 1: I just want to think I did. It might be

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Speaker 1: one of those scenarios but regardless, it is like a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge piece of northern Kentucky southern Ohio history. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: the more you learn about it, if you were alive

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Speaker 1: and sentient, you know, in the um mid to late seventies,

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Speaker 1: it was a national thing. Like it was a really

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Speaker 1: big deal that this happened, this Beverly Hill supper club

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Speaker 1: fire that we're going to talk about today. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was definitely one of the worst, um sort of entertainment

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Speaker 1: club fires in US history. I would have to look

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Speaker 1: at numbers. I mean, it's probably one of the deadliest

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Speaker 1: fires in US history because a hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 1: people died in horrific fashion obvious, See, dying by fire

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Speaker 1: is always horrific. But this was as bad as it gets, um,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know anything about it. So a big

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Speaker 1: thanks to you for uh commissioning this from Dave Rouse,

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Speaker 1: my friend, you did No, I didn't. I didn't commission this.

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Speaker 1: I didn't either. We're gonna have to this. May be

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Speaker 1: occasionally Dave will say like, hey, have you heard of

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Speaker 1: this cool thing? And we'll say, oh, yeah, just that

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Speaker 1: sounds great. So that may have been one of these

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Speaker 1: because I didn't know about this I don't think. What

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Speaker 1: day is it? Uh? It is Tuesday? I think, are

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Speaker 1: we Is this a job? Am I dreaming? You're like

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Speaker 1: that kid David on the way home from the dentist?

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Speaker 1: Is this real? All right? So let's go to Newport,

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Speaker 1: Kentucky in the way back machine. We haven't pulled that

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Speaker 1: thing out in a while, so let's dust it out.

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Speaker 1: That's fired up through the wiring, so I'll have to

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Speaker 1: hot wire it. Luckily, I'm good at that. So let's

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Speaker 1: get it fired up and let's go back to the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties Prohibition era Northern kentuckt Okay, here we are,

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Speaker 1: Chuck and uh. It turns out that despite prohibition being

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Speaker 1: in full force, UM liquors really really easy to get,

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Speaker 1: especially especially because there was a loophole in the Volstad

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Speaker 1: Act that said, and I know we talked about this

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Speaker 1: in the Prohibition episode UM that said that if you

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Speaker 1: UM are making alcohol for medicinal use, you can't. You

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Speaker 1: have to have a huge license. Each bottle has to

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Speaker 1: be bonded by the government. You can't be it's got

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Speaker 1: to be a hundred proof on the nose. There is

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Speaker 1: a bunch of like criteria, but you could legally produce

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Speaker 1: um alcohol. And there was a guy named George Remus

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Speaker 1: who who was a lawyer. He also was a pharmacist

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Speaker 1: by trade, but he had been defending all sorts of

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Speaker 1: bootleggers in Chicago and realized, man, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: money in bootlegging. So I saw that. He did a

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Speaker 1: little research, found out that of the legal booze producing

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Speaker 1: the United States was coming out of the Cincinnati area,

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Speaker 1: and he moved over there and said, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get into organized crime. And boy did he ever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was living in Chicago at the time, and if

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Speaker 1: you're leaving the organized crime in Chicago to go to Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: then he must have some good insider information, and indeed

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Speaker 1: he did. He was known after he made that move

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Speaker 1: as a king of the bootleggers because he would um

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's a great scam. He would manufacture

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Speaker 1: this quote unquote medicinal whiskey and then he would have

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Speaker 1: a setup where his guys would steal the truck, hijack

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Speaker 1: the truck, and then sell it. And this money number

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Speaker 1: is staggering because it says at one point this guy

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Speaker 1: was making forty million dollars a year in the nineteen twenties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's about nine hundred million dollars today, So I mean

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Speaker 1: that's that made him probably one of the wealthiest people

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Speaker 1: in the United States if he would have been able

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Speaker 1: to keep the you know, that operation up, But of

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Speaker 1: course he wasn't for sure. So if you were a

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Speaker 1: politician or um, a police chief or even probably a

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Speaker 1: local cop in the area, it made you pretty wealthy too.

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Speaker 1: Because one of the reasons why he set up in

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Speaker 1: northern Kentucky's, particularly in Newport, was because you could pay

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Speaker 1: people off a lot easier. It was a small town.

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Speaker 1: You could basically make it your fiefdom. And that's what

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Speaker 1: George Remis did. And you're right he Um. He got

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Speaker 1: caught pretty quickly, I think, um within just a few

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Speaker 1: years of setting up this organized crime syndicate. UM. And

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Speaker 1: I just a little aside on him. He was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: He had a sellmate in jail who turned out to

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Speaker 1: be an FBI agent, not an informant, and actual agent

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Speaker 1: who has planted there. The agent found out about all

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Speaker 1: the money that Remus had that his wife control that

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Speaker 1: was in her name. The guy left the jail, quit

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and started an affair with Remus's wife, Imogene,

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Speaker 1: and then talked her into basically like selling off all

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Speaker 1: his stuff and funnel money from her. So the FBI

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Speaker 1: guy robbed and blind. Remus was so mad that when

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Speaker 1: he got out of prison, he he tracked down his

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Speaker 1: wife and shot her in public in broad daylight. Did

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Speaker 1: he get pinched for that? He got pinched. He was

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Speaker 1: convicted but found not guilty and reason of insanity, was

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Speaker 1: taken to UM Sanitarium right sanatorium ortarium, I can't remember

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Speaker 1: um a mental hospital, and then, because he was a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: used the prosecutor's reasoning that he wasn't insane to get

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Speaker 1: himself released from the actual UM, the mental hospital, and

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Speaker 1: became a freeman very quickly. Boy, he knew all the angles,

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Speaker 1: Yeah he did. And also one other thing about him

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Speaker 1: is that it's pretty much a certainty that Jay Gatsby

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Speaker 1: from the Great Gatsby was based on George D. Remus

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Speaker 1: because he had met um F Scott Fitzgerald at some point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and probably through some pretty wild parties would be my guests.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't drink or smoke. Well, I don't, well

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Speaker 1: did Gatsby here? I could think gets to be drinks

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Speaker 1: something yeah, I um, alright, so it's he's in jail.

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Speaker 1: But by this time he had established such an operation

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Speaker 1: there in northern Kentucky that a little industry of sleeves

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Speaker 1: grew up around it. Uh, kind of a red light district,

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Speaker 1: is how Dave put it. And this is where we

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Speaker 1: get to the birth of what was then called the

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Country Club. Uh. There was a guy named

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Speaker 1: Peachman who now factors in the story, who used to

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Speaker 1: be a driver for Remus and in seven he bought

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Speaker 1: this old roadhouse outside of Newport, Newport perched upon a

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Speaker 1: hill and and and basically renovated it into a casino,

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Speaker 1: and a really nice one. They had casinos there, but

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Speaker 1: they were they were called bust out joints. They were

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Speaker 1: kind of again, they were kind of sleazy places to go.

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Speaker 1: And the Beverly Hills Country Club was what was known

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Speaker 1: as a carpet joint, and it was a it was

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Speaker 1: a nice place. It was it was the blueprint for

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Speaker 1: what ended up being Las Vegas. Like a nice place

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Speaker 1: where you could go and you could gamble, and you

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Speaker 1: get a dinner and some drink and even see a show. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the thing about that is yes, it was. The

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Speaker 1: whole jam was kind of sleazy. In fact, Newport earned

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Speaker 1: the nickname Since City back in the thirties. And again,

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas is a glimmer in anybody's eye at this point.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a tumble wheat. No like Newport is

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas and Atlantic City wrapped into one. And if

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Speaker 1: you were a tourist like you were, you were totally fine.

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Speaker 1: You were safe. The streets were clean, like nobody was

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Speaker 1: gonna mess with you because it was so fully mob run.

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Speaker 1: But it was mob run by a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: different disparate people who used to work with George Remus

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Speaker 1: and the Cleveland mob that led by Moe Deletes, who

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Speaker 1: went on to help found Las Vegas. He was one

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Speaker 1: of the original founders. He said, I want this action.

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Speaker 1: This is like just off the border of Cincinnati. Were

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Speaker 1: in Cleveland. We're going to get in on this. And

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Speaker 1: he moved in on Newport and started buying up casinos

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Speaker 1: around town. Delete Deletes, that's what I saw. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: I know. I want to say dallots, but it's not dallots.

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Speaker 1: It it's delightful as what it is. If you look

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Speaker 1: at uh deletes, Uh he looks exactly what you would

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Speaker 1: think of mobster. Moe Deletes would look like he was

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Speaker 1: a big time mobster. Like he was one of the

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Speaker 1: ones that was grilled by the Kaffer Committee. He was

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Speaker 1: one of the ones that that helped found Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: years later, right, right, Yeah, that's what I was saying.

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Speaker 1: But this was years and years later. And again one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons Las Vegas was found was because Mo

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Speaker 1: de Letz was one of the first, like big time

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Speaker 1: mob guys who showed up in Newport and took over

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Speaker 1: it was. It was just the blueprint for Vegas later on. Alright,

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Speaker 1: So Schmidt and again Chuck, I want to just really

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Speaker 1: drive home. We're talking about northern Kentucky. M hm okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Uh you know how I know that because we said

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Speaker 1: northern Kentucky like sixty times so far I know. But

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Speaker 1: it's just still boggles the mind. So Schmidt owns this

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills country club, and uh doesn't want to give

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Speaker 1: it up despite mob pressure. He's like, no, this is

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Speaker 1: my place. I want to own it. So what looks

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Speaker 1: like happened as the mom said, fine, we'll burn it down. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this was not the big fire obviously that came, you know,

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Speaker 1: forty years later, this was in February. Only one fatality,

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Speaker 1: very sadly, h five year old girl, the niece of

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Speaker 1: the club's caretaker, died. And here's the thing. They didn't

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Speaker 1: prove arson. But again, everyone was on the take, so

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Speaker 1: it was kind of just understood that it was burned

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Speaker 1: down because Schmidt wouldn't sell well. Plus also, right after

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Speaker 1: the fire, Mo Deletes came and said you want to

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Speaker 1: sell now? And uh that was it. Mo Deletes now

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Speaker 1: own the Beverly Hills Country Club and with that he

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Speaker 1: basically owned Newport in conjunction with a couple other big

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Speaker 1: time heavy hitter Cleveland bosses. Yeah, with whatever they're whatever

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Speaker 1: Cleveland accent is. So you want to take a I

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Speaker 1: don't know that there is one actually know that you

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Speaker 1: mentioned it. It's kind of midwestern. Uh, hey, what do

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Speaker 1: you say, Let's let's go down to Newport and run

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Speaker 1: the plate. That's a Cleveland accent, I think by way

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Speaker 1: Steve Bush and me is it's all right, We'll take

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Speaker 1: that break and we'll we'll come back right after this, Okay, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: So Mo Deletes and the Cleveland mob have taken over Newport.

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Speaker 1: And this is when it really becomes like the casino

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Speaker 1: capital of America. Yeah, it's bustling. People are and this

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Speaker 1: isn't like, oh I came in from Cleveland or Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: People are coming in from the West coast in New

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Speaker 1: York and Chicago. I think the population was about thirty thousand,

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Speaker 1: and uh seventy thousand people, you know, more than double

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Speaker 1: that amount would come in on the weekends to hang

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Speaker 1: out and see young Jerry Lewis and Frank Sinatra and

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Speaker 1: Dean Martin. And it was a literal blue print again

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Speaker 1: for Vegas. They were doing it all. Duke Ellington was playing,

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Speaker 1: and Marilyn Monroe was there and it was just, uh,

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Speaker 1: it was quite a scene. Again where in northern Kentucky

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Speaker 1: and the others. The other thing about it too, is

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Speaker 1: there was no legalized gambling in Kentucky. This was all

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Speaker 1: just flouting the law. And the reason why because everybody

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Speaker 1: was on the take. They just looked the other way.

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Speaker 1: And it was the casino Capital of America was located

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Speaker 1: in a state that didn't have legalized gambling. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: so it wasn't like this is a a back room

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Speaker 1: poker game like they were literal casinos that they got

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Speaker 1: away with it, and eventually, you know, of course the

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Speaker 1: feds are going to take note, and the American Municipal

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Speaker 1: Association uh started complaining to the federal government and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: we got a real organized crime problem in this country.

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Speaker 1: So that Cafalbre Committee that you were talking about earlier,

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Speaker 1: it was a stab bush by the Senate. These big

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Speaker 1: televised hearings. They trotted out everyone, including deletes, including Frank

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Speaker 1: Costello and people like that. And here's the thing, it

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Speaker 1: kept going that had no effect on shutting Newport down.

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Speaker 1: This was in nineteen or fifty, and throughout the fifties

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Speaker 1: it was still booming. Yeah. One of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: they were able to get away with this was this

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Speaker 1: was before even the FBI would admit that there was

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Speaker 1: a national crime syndicate of organized crime. Like Up to

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Speaker 1: the like late fifties, the general consensus among law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: at least officially, was that it was all just local

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Speaker 1: hoods and thugs and you know, criminals. But there was

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Speaker 1: certainly no organized crime that didn't exist. Even after the

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Speaker 1: ki father Um Committee like revealed like, no, these people

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Speaker 1: wh are in touch with one another and they're all

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Speaker 1: mobbed up like this does exist, it still didn't quite take.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until the Appalachian me of nineteen fifty seven

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Speaker 1: in Appalati to New York, where they literally caught a

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Speaker 1: hundred mob bosses from around the country in Cuba and

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Speaker 1: Italy meeting to figure out how to organize their crime better.

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Speaker 1: The people, including the FBI, were finally like, okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: there's organized crime. But that's one way that they were

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Speaker 1: able to get away with this is because they just

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Speaker 1: refused to accept that this was an organized crime syndicate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which it very much was. Uh. And it played out

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Speaker 1: in Newport in ways that you would expect in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. They're homicide rate and you know this, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty small place was four times the national average. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of people that just vanished. Basically.

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Speaker 1: Dave introduced me to a new term called the Newport nightgown,

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Speaker 1: which was when you were wrapped up in chains and

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Speaker 1: thrown off a bridge. Uh. There was a reporter in

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Speaker 1: fifty seven that counted three hundred sex workers per mile

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Speaker 1: in Newport And eventually nineteen six one rolls around and

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Speaker 1: a football player, former player from Notre dame in the

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Speaker 1: Browns there in Cleveland named George Raderman ran for sheriff

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Speaker 1: in Newport as a reform candidate. Okay, you know that reference?

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Speaker 1: No is that from No No, No, no, No. Good

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Speaker 1: guess though it was Oh brother were art dal the

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Speaker 1: Coen Brothers great movie where Charles Dunning said, people want

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Speaker 1: that reform. Oh yeah. It was a good character. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was a southern politician. But this is what uh

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Speaker 1: Raderman ran for. Basically, I'm going to clean this place up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it was all going fine in his campaign until

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Speaker 1: he was found naked and passed out in a hotel

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Speaker 1: room with a sex worker and arrested. But it kind

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Speaker 1: of came back to sting the mob, didn't it. It

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Speaker 1: did because they did blood tests on George Raderman, probably

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Speaker 1: at his insistence. He said that he was drugged, and

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Speaker 1: it turned out that yes, indeed, he was drugged with

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Speaker 1: oral hydrate, which is the basis of a mickey a

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Speaker 1: Mickey finn. If you slip someone and mickey, you give

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Speaker 1: him chloral hydrate in a drink. And that's what they

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Speaker 1: did to George Raderman and framed him. The mob, in

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Speaker 1: conjunction with the local police framed this guy who was

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Speaker 1: running for sheriff. It is a trope, but this was

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Speaker 1: actually happening. Drug him and throw him dead naked with

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Speaker 1: his sex order and take his and call the cops. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: So um with with black and white picture. It's got

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Speaker 1: to be black and white photos. Right. So Raderman actually

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Speaker 1: goes on to win the election. He like, he comes

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Speaker 1: out of this and clears his name, wins the election,

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Speaker 1: and then all of the national attention that was given

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Speaker 1: to this incredibly like just like almost mythical thing that

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Speaker 1: happened to him. Um. Robert Kennedy, who was new as

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Attorney General, said what is going on

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Speaker 1: down there? And started sending feds to Newport, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the party was over. That's right, The

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Speaker 1: party was very much over by this town. This was

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Speaker 1: the sixties, so Vegas was it's earlier days and people

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Speaker 1: skipped down. Basically, he said, all right, let's go out

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Speaker 1: there in the sunshine. Uh, Newport is done. And in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen sixties, the Beverly Hills Country Club closed,

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Speaker 1: but not for good, because, as we will see, it

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Speaker 1: was revived, which will ultimately lead us to our tragedy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a break spot, but it's not because

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Speaker 1: we just took one, that's right. This is also the

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Speaker 1: time when the famous song Goodbye Northern Kentucky I'm going

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Speaker 1: to Las Vegas was written that Inglebert Humperdink or Gordon Lightfoot.

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Speaker 1: It was a duet. Okay, yeah, yeah, it was a

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Speaker 1: sea shantie that's right, sung into Cleveland accent. Alright. So

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Speaker 1: then we will enter another character, Dick Schilling Richard Chilling Jr.

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Speaker 1: He was working at these casinos when he was just

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Speaker 1: a kid and eventually rose up to like management and

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Speaker 1: in the late sick season sixty nine, when Newport wasn't

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Speaker 1: doing great, he had the foresight to buy this abandoned property,

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Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Supper and renamed it the Beverly Hills

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Speaker 1: Supper Club. This time, I was like, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: restore this um giant, giant facility. I mean, like, the

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Speaker 1: more we looked into this, that video you sent me

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Speaker 1: that kind of lays out the not the schematic, but

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Speaker 1: the floor plan. It's unbelievable how big this place was.

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Speaker 1: Like they would have half a dozen wedding parties going

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Speaker 1: on at this and the same night in addition to

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Speaker 1: the thousand seat to Frank Sinatra. Yeah, in the other room,

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Speaker 1: like it was nuts and it was really lavishly done.

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Speaker 1: Like Dick Schilling like did a really good job bringing

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Speaker 1: this thing back and put it back on the map again.

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Speaker 1: The thing is is that long standing tradition of a

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Speaker 1: legitimate business owner buying the place, fixing it up, and

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Speaker 1: uh being unwilling to sell it to the mob, who

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Speaker 1: in short order turned around and burn it down. Um,

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Speaker 1: that happened again, just like a year after he revamped it,

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Speaker 1: right before he was able to open, and amazingly, Dick

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Speaker 1: Schilling said, no, I'm doing this, stop at mob. You're

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Speaker 1: not gonna You're not gonna deter me and the mobs

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Speaker 1: and fine, fine, go ahead and open and he did

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Speaker 1: in and you know, in just a few years it

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Speaker 1: was it was like I think they called it the

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Speaker 1: show place of the nation, a supper club in northern Kentucky. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, how many times can this place burn down?

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Speaker 1: And I guess the answer is three at least. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Uh and big thanks to we need to mention Dave

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Speaker 1: used to book for this research by a man named

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Speaker 1: Peter Bronson, who wrote easily I would say, the quintessential

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Speaker 1: book on the Beverly Hill Supper Club Fire. Uh and

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Speaker 1: Northern Kentucky Forbidden Fruit. Colon since Cities Underworld in the

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Speaker 1: supper Club Inferno. And was that who it was in

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Speaker 1: the video that you said to No, there's another guy

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Speaker 1: named Robert Webster who was in that video. I sent tune.

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Speaker 1: He wrote another definitive book on it, um called the

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Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire, The Store the Untold

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Speaker 1: story behind Kentucky's greatest tragedy. And it's really exhaustive too.

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Speaker 1: Apparently it's got five years of research behind it as well.

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Speaker 1: Colon everything that Bronson guy missed. Right, they're famously feuding

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Speaker 1: with each other to this day. They keep burning down

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Speaker 1: one another supper clubs. Oh no, no, no, alright, So

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Speaker 1: this thing, like you said, opening seventy burned, reopened in

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Speaker 1: seventy one. Chilling was not to be deterred. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it was a big deal. And Frank Sinatra came back

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Speaker 1: even he was like that place is open again. All right,

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Speaker 1: I'm back. You can still get a flight into Cincinnati, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Ella Fitzgerald played their Red Fox, The Righteous Brothers. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was again a big deal, and such a big

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Speaker 1: deal that they would routinely um over sell and overpacked

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Speaker 1: that place out. So I saw, this is under dispute.

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Speaker 1: So I think Robert Webster in particular, he chalked reports

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Speaker 1: of that up to poor reporting, early reporting after the fire,

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Speaker 1: that they routinely flaunted the building capacity, the fire marshal's

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Speaker 1: capacity um number. I don't know that that's necessarily true,

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Speaker 1: but it posses though. But no, but they they were.

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Speaker 1: They said that there was some minor um violations, but

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Speaker 1: nothing that costs anyone in their lives. So that to

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Speaker 1: that tells me right there that no, they weren't doing

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Speaker 1: any major violations like over capacity crowding. Okay, And it

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Speaker 1: was a huge place too. It was so mind bogglingly

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Speaker 1: big that I think people were like, oh, there's people there,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's over capacity. Well, I mean I think they were.

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Speaker 1: They said there were people in that one room, yeah,

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Speaker 1: where the main stage was, which was that was a

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Speaker 1: sweet looking, uh place. I mean this the decor in

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Speaker 1: this place was awesome. Alright. So Memorial Day weekend is

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Speaker 1: obviously going to be a big deal at a place

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Speaker 1: like this, and it was certainly the case in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven. John Davidson was the headliner that night. John Davidson,

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Speaker 1: who would later make noise in the eighties for guys

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Speaker 1: like us as a co host of a show called

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Speaker 1: Real People. Isn't that right? That's incredible? Okay, Real People

385
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Speaker 1: was the other one. Yeah, it was the downmarket version

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Speaker 1: or maybe the upmarket version of Real People. I think

387
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Speaker 1: that's incredible. It was just that was the one with

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Speaker 1: Tarkenton and Kathy Rick I think, yeah. Remember she always

389
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: came out wearing a beard of bees like every episode.

390
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Speaker 1: I just remember the guy. I remember two guys. There

391
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Speaker 1: was one guy that could catch arrows. That was Kathy Rigby.

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Speaker 1: That was that would bring on people to do this

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Speaker 1: kufas uh. And then the other guy. I think I

394
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Speaker 1: even remember his name for some reason. It's funny how

395
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: these things stick with you as an adult from when

396
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: you were a kid. I think he was the Yogi Kudu.

397
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Speaker 1: He was the guy that could fold himself and put

398
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Speaker 1: him in a tiny, little clear cube. That was Kathy

399
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Speaker 1: Rigby too. You were a very confused young man. I'm

400
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Speaker 1: gonna have to look that up. I better. I think

401
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: it was Yogiku do Um, so, Chuck, we kind of

402
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: set the stage. Um, Kathy Lee Crosby, Oh nice, Okay,

403
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: good Cathy Rigby. It was a gymnast, all right. I'm

404
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: glad I said that, but I was thinking of Kathy

405
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Speaker 1: Lee Crosby. I just had the name wrong with you,

406
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Speaker 1: but that's who I was thinking of. At any rate,

407
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: we've set the stage for this seven night at the

408
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Speaker 1: Beverly Hill Supper Club. Yep. John Davidson's kind of go

409
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: on apparently shaving backstage at this moment, and I say,

410
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: we take a little break, leave John Davidson to his shaving,

411
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Speaker 1: and come back and really talk about the fire. All right,

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Speaker 1: you missed a spot, John, Yeah, imagine like shaving right

413
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Speaker 1: before we go on stage. I'd be like I would

414
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Speaker 1: nick myself and I'd come out bleeding, like your face

415
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: isn't supposed to bleed when you are entertaining. You know.

416
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Speaker 1: I'm so glad I don't shave. I hated shaving. I

417
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Speaker 1: don't like it either. Yeah, I didn't like shaving. So

418
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Speaker 1: John Davidson apparently loved to shave, do it five times

419
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Speaker 1: a day. He liked to come out there with a clean,

420
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: clean clothes, shaved who were the two comedians that were

421
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: opening up for him, Kethy Rig It was in the video,

422
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Speaker 1: but I don't remember now. Peter and McDonald. They were

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Speaker 1: a comedy duo plus a ventriloquist act on tops of

424
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: everyone back then had a had a dummy at their disposal. Yeah,

425
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: and but also I think they were kind of like,

426
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: we're kind of funny, we need to somehow, we're not

427
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: funny enough to just be a comedy duo, right, No

428
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: shade towards the carrot top because he will beat me

429
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: up now, Oh dude. Yeah, So all right, this the

430
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: club is packed out the um there was a wedding

431
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: receptions going on, and what was called the Zebra Room,

432
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: Like you said, the cab cabernet room. I'm sorry, the

433
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: cabaret room, but the curtains could make it called the

434
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: cabernet room for sure. And all the wine you couldn't

435
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: me Um. I bet they were serving some usty supermanty

436
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: in that joint. Uh they they that was where Davidson was.

437
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: But the point is there was just there was activity

438
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: all over this place such that if there was a fire,

439
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: like we will soon see, the other part of the

440
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: facility wouldn't even know what was going on. No, not

441
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: at all. Um, there I saw that there was essentially

442
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: three thousand people in that building at the time, in

443
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: the complex, I should say, But it's not like it

444
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: was a bunch of different buildings. It was one big

445
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: building with a bunch of huge rooms. So, um, yes,

446
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: so there's three thousand people there on this this what

447
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: was this Saturday night? I think Friday night that was

448
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: So there were three thousand people there, and um, there

449
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: was a wedding party, one of the like half dozen

450
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: wedding parties that were celebrating that day. Um, we're in

451
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: the Zebra room. And they left, they were done, their

452
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: wedding party was over, and I think a couple of

453
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: servers came in to get some some trades I think

454
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: out of the place and noticed that there was a

455
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: thing of smoke that was kind of bunching up in

456
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: the back of the room. And they're like, well, that's

457
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: kind of odd, and they went and got um Dick

458
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: Schilling's son, Rick, who came in with a fire extinguisher.

459
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: But by the time he got there, apparently it was

460
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: spreading pretty quickly, and it was made even worse by

461
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: a bus boy whose name has lost to history or

462
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: at the very least day didn't um use his name

463
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: who opened the doors to the Zebra room to kind

464
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: of help put the fire out, but instead that had

465
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: the exact opposite effect. Yeah, the whole backdraft effect. All

466
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: that oxygen entering the room basically made I mean, it

467
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: didn't explode, but it did not explode. Like everything in

468
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: that room all of a sudden was on fire and this, uh,

469
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: that was really really black smoke. Um. We'll talk a

470
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: little bit later about what all was in it, but

471
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: it was incredibly noxious, as you would expect from a

472
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: lavishly decorated place in late night, all manner of like

473
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: terrible plastics and and fabrics that were terrible when burned. Um.

474
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: So the Zebra rooms on fire, and apparently the um

475
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: when the flames kind of burst in the Zebra room,

476
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: it moved really quickly up the hall of mirrors, which

477
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: will become suspicious later on, and it's moving towards the

478
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: cabaret room. Well, there was a I saw sixteen year

479
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: old This says eighteen year old. Regardless, there was a

480
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: teenage bus boy working there and he heard didn't see anything,

481
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: He just heard over the grapevine that there was a

482
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: fire in the Zebra room and he had the wherewithal

483
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: to go on stage interrupting the great Teeter and McDonald

484
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: during their comedy act, asked them for the microphone and

485
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: very calmly said, folks, there's a fire in an adjoining room.

486
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: It's nothing to panic about, but we all need to leave.

487
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: So there are exits here and here. Please go ahead

488
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: and make your way to the exits. And about a

489
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: third to a half of the crowd laughed and clapped

490
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: because they thought that Walter Bailey was part of Teter

491
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: McDonald's comedy and Teeter and McDonald said, man, we need

492
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: to steal that and added to our act later on

493
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: because it got a huge response. Yeah, there's no way

494
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: that they didn't uh get that ventriloquist thing out and

495
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: say who's this dummy when that guy got on stage.

496
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: There is no way. But Walter Bailey is a huge

497
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: here and there are a lot of heroes and we'll

498
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: see but he I mean, imagine being like sixteen to

499
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: eighteen years old and without anybody telling you to, like,

500
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: just getting on stage, interrupting an act and telling everyone, calmly,

501
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: calmly leave. Yeah, everyone across the board says that he

502
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: very calmly told everyone, we need to go ahead and

503
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: go out the doors. Hats off to Walter Bailey. So

504
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: people sort of started to leave. Other people would like,

505
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: we're kicking back and drinking their drinks and stuff and

506
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: wondering what was going on. And eventually the cabernet room

507
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: it became evident when flames and heat and smoke burst

508
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: through that entrance door, and exactly what you would think

509
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: happened happened, which is people started, uh panicking. They started

510
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: trying to get out any way they knew how, which

511
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: it turns out was pretty confusing in a big place

512
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: like this smoke um. There were two back exits, but

513
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: two of the doors pushed out, two of them pulled in. Uh.

514
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: They found survivors who were basically crushed against those inward

515
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: pulling doors, because you know, once you get to that

516
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: door and you have a a rush of people pushing

517
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: and you can't even get the door open. So it's

518
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: it's that that sad, sad typical seeing you hear about

519
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: with a rush of people where a crush happens and

520
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: people are stepping on one another trying to get out.

521
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: So part of it also, I it was started when

522
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: a man in a dinner jacket who was kind of

523
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: quickly making his way to that one exit where one

524
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: of the doors was closed and the other was open.

525
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: He tripped and fell, and a woman very closely behind

526
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: him fell on him, and then the people behind her

527
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: fell on her, and they just kind of stacked up,

528
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: sealing the fate of the people behind them, because the

529
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: margin of error in getting out of the cabaret room

530
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: at that time was razor thin. I saw it. Put

531
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: like whether you lived or died depended on what side

532
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: of the table you were sitting on and having to

533
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: get out of that cabaret room. That's how noxious that

534
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: smoke was and how quickly it was killing people who

535
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: were overcome. And so when that pile of people started

536
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: um piling up by that one exit, there was only

537
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: one exit to be had, and that was on the

538
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: other side of this thousand person room. So a a

539
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: lot died at that blocked exit right there. Yeah, I

540
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: think that was um There were several dead ends that

541
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: people thought were exits, like hallways that led to closets

542
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: and coat closets and things like that. Uh and again,

543
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: and you know when this thing is when panic is

544
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: set in. There are people everywhere, it's full of smoke.

545
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: You're just going in a direction basically at that point. Uh.

546
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: And if you see a hallway and you run down

547
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: it and you hit a dead end, then that that's

548
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: basically it for you in this kind of scenario. Um.

549
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: Very sadly, there were people who actually made it outside

550
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: only to like collapse and die on the front lawn

551
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: because they couldn't get like fresh air into their lungs

552
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: soon enough. A lot of people made it out. A

553
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: surprising number of people made it out. So bear in

554
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: mind there's about three thousand people there and something on

555
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: the order of twenty people made it out safely. Yeah,

556
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: the vast majority of the people who did die died

557
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: at that one exit. Yeah, there were no uh sprinklers

558
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: installed and this was not a requirement, so that wasn't negligent.

559
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: But it does bear mentioning. Um. And you know, thanks

560
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: to people like Walter Bailey and the five firefighters who

561
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: rushed to the scene and this thing burned for seven hours.

562
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: But uh, I mean, you nail it, man. A hundred

563
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: and sixty five people is a lot of people to lose.

564
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: But considering how massive this place was and how many

565
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: people were in there, um, And it's not like you're

566
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: ever prepared to flee a burning building, but I think

567
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: out drinking and having a good time after nine, like

568
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: half of more probably drunk by that point. Um. It

569
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: was just a very tough situation and and I think

570
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: they're lucky that more didn't perish. So a hundred victims

571
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: were found at that one blocked exit that was blocked

572
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: by people, uh, some people who had made it through

573
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: that exit. Like you said, it wasn't clear which way

574
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: to go. The exits weren't clearly marked. Thirty people were recovered,

575
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: um from the hallway off of that ex it, and

576
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: then there was a closet off of that hallway that

577
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: looked like an exit, but it was just a closet,

578
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: and another twenty people were found there. So a hundred

579
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: sixty people died. A hundred and fifty of them were

580
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: all just uh scattered in this really localized area off

581
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: of the cabaret room, right inside of the cabaret room

582
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: and right outside of the cabaret room. Yeah, um, the

583
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: uh you sent me this video. It was a presentation

584
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: and it's well worth watching if you're into this kind

585
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: of like even more thorough explanation of the layout of

586
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: the place. But it was the what was his name

587
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: that wrote that other book, Robert Webster. Yeah, Webster was

588
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: presenting and he, you know, at one point in the

589
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: video he talks about some of the pictures he was

590
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: showing and he was like, you know, I really debated

591
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: on what I felt like I could show, uh as

592
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 1: far as how kind of gruesome it got, but he said,

593
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: I did choose to show some of this because he's said,

594
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, people that have never heard

595
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: of this need to see a little bit of what

596
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: really happened to have its full impact. Um. And it

597
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: didn't get too gruesome, but he did show I mean

598
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: there were no like close ups, but he did show

599
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: shots of people like, you know, dead on the lawn. Um.

600
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: I think just kind of drive home how awful it was. Yeah,

601
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: for sure, I mean it's it's it looks kind of

602
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: like people like the people who were able to be

603
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: gotten out, including like the ones like you said, just

604
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: collapsed after they made it out themselves, Like they just

605
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: looked like they were sleeping. Said this one kid, um

606
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: who his name was Bill. He was thirteen at the time,

607
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: he was another kind of hero in helping people. Bill Klingenberg,

608
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: Um he uh. He said that it looked like people

609
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: were just sleeping. Um. And it wasn't until like you realized,

610
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: like you, it sunk in that they were dead. You

611
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: were looking at a hundred plus dead people just laying

612
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: around that it really became just nightmarish. And they moved

613
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: people to the nearby National Armory Jim and used it

614
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: as a makeshift morgue for families to come and identify people.

615
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: And that's that's really worth pointing out. Like the this

616
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: is a smallest town I think, like you said, thirty people,

617
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: probably less because a lot of people fled to Las

618
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: Vegas a decade before, so it was a fairly small town.

619
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: And the people who were going there were residents. Um,

620
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: they worked there, They m the whole town was essentially

621
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: devastated by this fire. One way or another. You were

622
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: touched by this fire, whether you lost somebody directly, or

623
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: you knew someone who lost somebody, or you knew someone

624
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: who was psychologically damaged now for having survived it. It

625
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: was Um, it was. It's it's just hard to overstate

626
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: what a big deal it was. Not just nationally, but

627
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: especially in this area where it happened. Yeah. I mean

628
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: there were another hundred and sixteen that suffered severe injuries, um,

629
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: obviously from from the burns and the smoke inhalation. Uh.

630
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: So the question then is, did was this arson? Did

631
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: the mob do this? Yet? Again? Uh? And depending on

632
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: who you ask, they will say it's either officially undetermined,

633
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: which it is officially um or um. If you're the

634
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: author of that first book, Bronson, he will say, no,

635
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: this was absolutely the mob. Um. There were six official investigations.

636
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: The first one was obviously ordered by the governor of

637
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: Kentucky at the time, Julian Carroll, and said it was

638
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: likely electrical and nature and blamed on aluminum wiring. But

639
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: that zebra room where it started was bulldozed the next day. Uh.

640
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: Supposedly to get um more bodies out there and recover

641
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: more more people, but um, who knows. Some people contend

642
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: that it was raised as part of the cover up.

643
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: They certainly couldn't do the investigation any further investigations like

644
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: they wanted to after that, So that bulldozing happened by

645
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: director order of Julie and Carol, the the governor of Kentucky,

646
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: which is a really weird thing to do. And um,

647
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: some authors, I think Bronson also Robert Webster is basically

648
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: like that guy was so mobbed up it's not even funny.

649
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: The upshot of this is like we've entered into this

650
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: period or this this realm where we're like, well, these

651
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: are conspiracy theories. The area was so mob influenced and

652
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: it has such a history of things burning down because

653
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: of arson that it's really it's not far fetched at all.

654
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: This isn't just you know, local residents trying to make

655
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: sense of something really psychologically damaging. Uh. This really like

656
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: these are historians and local, like longtime journalists who are

657
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: writing books saying like, yeah, the governor literally covered up

658
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: this fire that killed a hundred and sixty five people

659
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: that was set under orders from the mob. Yeah there was.

660
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: There was an annual major nightclub five are every year

661
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: for seven straight years in northern Kentucky. Uh this was

662
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: the most deadly, so it got the most news. But

663
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: for seven straight years from seventy to seventy seven, one

664
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: of these nightclubs burned to the ground. Uh. And it's

665
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: that's not coincidence, you know. Um, there was like we said,

666
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: a grand jury investigation into um Dick Chilling and whether

667
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: or not he was negligent in any way. Uh. They

668
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: said that at least the findings of the grand jury

669
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: was that he clearly violated the fire code, but not

670
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: to a criminal degree. Uh. And as Bronson put it,

671
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: basically because apparently the fire marshals, they're like, well, it's

672
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: really their fault, and then they're pointing fingers and Bronson

673
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: the author eventually said everyone was guilty. So nobody was guilty,

674
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: which sometimes is how those things go down. Yeah, So,

675
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: like you said, the cause remains undetermined. It was ruled

676
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: in accident. A lot of people say, no, this was arson,

677
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: and there were um, there were people who worked at

678
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: UM the supper club who came forward afterward, because, like

679
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: you said, a half dozen investigations were launched. So these

680
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: people were either spoken to or they came forward on

681
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: their own accord and said, hey, there was some really

682
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: weird stuff going on at the supper club in the

683
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: in the days and weeks leading up to this UM

684
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: including there are a couple of guys who were found

685
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: in the basement laundry room right below the Zebra room,

686
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: who caused an explosion a week before the fire, and

687
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: these two guys said that they were working on the

688
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: air conditioning and told the hostess UM to leave, go ahead,

689
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: get out of here, which is not something that air

690
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: conditioning repair people say to the people who are working

691
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: there very frequently. What else There was an FBI memo

692
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: apparently a couple of weeks before the fire that said

693
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: an anonymous tipster M heard I'm sorry, I had conversations

694
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: with a stranger on a plane who predicted that it

695
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: would be burned down. UM. And that could have been

696
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: a real thing, or it could have been just like, hey,

697
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: that places burned twice, it'll burn again. So I kind

698
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: of put that one in the maybe category personally. Uh.

699
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: What else? UM? There was a an employee who said that, UM,

700
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: she overheard a heated discussion UM where two men wanted

701
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: to buy the supper club and she said that, UM,

702
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: no one followed up on the tip and that she's

703
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: received threatening phone calls to telling telling her to keep

704
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: quiet about that. And then also this one was I

705
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: think multiple people said that they saw men that they

706
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: couldn't identify wiping down the walls of the Hall of

707
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: Mirrors with some weird smelling liquid. On the day of

708
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: the fire, I remember the Zebra Um room caught fire,

709
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: but then the fire spread very quickly up the hall

710
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: of mirrors to the cabaret room. And apparently there was

711
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: another fire in nineteen where UM investigators found that the

712
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: Pink Pussycat Lounge in Newport had been saturated in lubri

713
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: can oil to help use as an accelerant, and it's

714
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: entirely possible this was used as well in this There's

715
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: other stuff too. If you watch that Robert Webster presentation

716
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: I think on YouTube, it's the same title of his

717
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: book The Beverly Hills Supper Club colin The Untold Story

718
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: Behind Kentucky's Worst Tragedy UM. He says that there were

719
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: like timers found in the basement underneath the Zebra Room,

720
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: that the wiring had been ripped out from plugs and

721
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: put into outlets, and that essentially the the upshot of

722
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: this of people who believe that this was arson, or

723
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: may even actually know for a fact it was arson,

724
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: that it was not meant to happen on that Saturday night,

725
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: that it was supposed to happen on Sunday morning, and

726
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: that the two goons who actually set up the timers

727
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: set some to PM rather than a M and caused

728
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: this massive tragedy. Oh and that it was supposed to

729
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: have been just burned to the ground with no one there. Yeah,

730
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: because typically if you burned down a business and night

731
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: club something like that in Northern GA, not trying to

732
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: murder people. No, you did it on a Sunday morning. Basically,

733
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: I think there was one employee to that reported that

734
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: they saw John Davidson shaving backstage. He was he caused

735
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: a spark. Uh. So that is the story. There was

736
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: one little um a bit here at the end that

737
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: Dave included that it was also notable in legal terms

738
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: historically because it was the first um disaster case that

739
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: ended up having a class action mass tort lawsuit applied.

740
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,959
Speaker 1: There was a lawyer named Stan Chesley who would later

741
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: be known as a Master of Disaster, who got all

742
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 1: these claims together more than three victims, into a class

743
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: action suit against the aluminum wiring industry. Uh. And even

744
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: though that was never proven as the reason for the fire,

745
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: they did have to admit that they knew that the

746
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: wire could catch fire from overheating, and the jury awarded

747
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: bucks and damages and I think the families received about

748
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars. Yeah, and I think that actually was

749
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end for aluminum wiring. Um. The

750
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: there's still like ongoing litigation over it. So UM, you know,

751
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: we talked largely about Newport, but um, the supper club

752
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: itself was up Highway twenty seven or I guess down

753
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: Highway twenty seven in Southgate, just outside of Newport, and

754
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: um that's hollow ground to the people in that area.

755
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: But it was recently sold. The entire site was sold

756
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: to a developer who intended to put like condos in

757
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: an assisted living facility and stuff on it. And so

758
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: there's been a bunch of lawsuits saying like, no, don't

759
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: build at all, or you can build, but you just

760
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: can't build on the side of the supper club, or

761
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: you can build inside the supper club, you just can't

762
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: build over the cabaret room where most of the deaths occurred.

763
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: And I can't quite tell if the if the project

764
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: is moving forward or if it's just stalled out right now,

765
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: or what they're going to do, but I believe that

766
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: they put m Morial up where the cabaret room is,

767
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: or if they haven't yet. They're going to very soon.

768
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: All this news was like, oh, well that's good. Yeah,

769
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: so there's still and apparently there's there's people convinced that

770
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: there are still remains on the site. Um, and I

771
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: guess there. I saw a picture taken in the woods

772
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: and there's a burned like cocktail tray um in in

773
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: the woods. And this is like a picture taken in

774
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: like two thousand eight or nine or something like that.

775
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: So they're like, there's still stuff in the woods. So

776
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: it really is hollow ground for sure. Yeah, you got

777
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: anything else? No, this is a story I've never heard.

778
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: And uh, I guess Dave thought of it, so I'm

779
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: glad he did. Yeah, way to go, Dave. Thanks for

780
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: this one. Uh And since I said way to go Dave,

781
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: that means, of course, everybody, it's time for listener mail.

782
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: This is about avocado Toast. Hey, guys, love the show.

783
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: I've been working my way through the bad catalog as

784
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm doing some d i y work on our house.

785
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: You have saved my sanity. But I wanted to address

786
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: Josh's comment about the relatively recent hipster fascination with toast.

787
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: Giving us avocado Toast is a correction. Now it's not

788
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: a correction. Okay, great, I love this one. Yeah, this

789
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: is just a little I guess what thing? Hey, guys,

790
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: So my dad has mashed an avocado onto toast and

791
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: added salt and pepper since I was a kid in

792
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 1: the n uh It's funny. It seems like a very

793
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: seventies dad thing to do. And then with a kid

794
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: going like why do you do and and he's like, oh,

795
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 1: it's delicious, He's like, leave me alone and get back

796
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: to your macro main As a matter of fact, I'm

797
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: not a big avocado fan in general, but I still

798
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: love that version of avocado toast. And just in case

799
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: you're wondering, my dad was not a foodie. Far from it.

800
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: Kate Hamburger steak and microwave vegetables every night for dinner

801
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: for decades. My siblings and I used to joke that

802
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: his biography should be called beyond practicality. I grew up

803
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: in San Diego, which I think grows more avocados and

804
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: anywhere else in the US, so we could usually just

805
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: get them cheaply in season. I bet your dad was

806
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: stealing them from the neighbor's yard, would be my guess.

807
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know that some of

808
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: us have been Avocado Toast enthusiasts more than fifty years.

809
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: Thanks again for keeping me entertained and educated with the show.

810
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. I really can't thank you enough. And that

811
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: is from Cookie Davis. Nice Cookie. First of all, awesome name. Secondly,

812
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: thanks for the story. I appreciate it. And then third day,

813
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: I have a question for Cookie or anybody you can answer.

814
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: It is a hamburger steak, just like a hamburger without

815
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: the button. Is that right? Yeah? I used to, uh,

816
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: when I was a line cook when I was believe

817
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: it or not, thirteen years old at JJ's barbecue. Yeah,

818
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: I would. I would cook the grittled bread, garlic bread

819
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: and the hamburger steaks. And hamburger steak is just ground

820
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: beef shaped like a New York strip and that's all

821
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: it is. So it's not like round like a hamburger.

822
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: I guess comple you conserve it that way. But the

823
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: idea is to make it long and rectangular like it's

824
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: its steak. And uh, it's really kind of funny, but

825
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: you want to hear something funnier. I made one of

826
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: those two weeks ago for myself. I got this we

827
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: get in our c s A Our c s A Miami.

828
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: That's a little when you go to the some parking

829
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: lot and a bunch of farmers partner hippies give you

830
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: a bag of stuff. Yeah, or go up. What's the

831
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: c s A. I think it's called a c s

832
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: A co Op Surprise r vark. But they got this

833
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: really delicious local, locally raised, humanely raised ground beef and

834
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: it's delicious, like the most noticeable difference you could imagine

835
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: from like something you would get in a grocery store.

836
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what, I don't have

837
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: anything else here in the house, so I'm gonna make

838
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: some veggies and make a hamburger steak. So I've been

839
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: making some really great recipes from your friend, uh Kenji

840
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: Lopez all delete he is. That guy is just amazing.

841
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of now. Yeah, he's the best,

842
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure how much we can mention him

843
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: and be ignored. But here's yet another. Yeah, I was

844
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: gonna say, if he's a friend of the show and

845
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: doesn't know it, yeah, exactly, but yeah, it's um. I

846
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: think I made the carne asada. I can't remember the

847
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: name of the recipe, but it was like the best

848
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: carne asada or something like that. It was so easy

849
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: but so good. And it all comes down to like

850
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: doing your own stuff, like rather than using ground cuman,

851
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: like buying human whole human like seeds, toasting them and

852
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: then putting them in like a grinder. Sounds like a lot,

853
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: it's actually really easy and it produces like just amazing stuff.

854
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: Or like using like whole dried chilies, um and then

855
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: reconstituting them, like just just little things like that that

856
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: maybe you're like an extra step that makes it just

857
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: a nor of this world of difference. It's almost as

858
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: if eating real whole foods is the better way. Almost chuck. Almost.

859
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: He's a food scientist. He knows his stuff beyond chef um. Uh,

860
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: just bake a batch of his chocolate chip cookies and

861
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: see me in the morning. Oh. By the way, I know,

862
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: I told everybody about um Sally's baking addictions chocolate brown

863
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: butter chocolate chip cookies, and I I went to go

864
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: look at the recipe um to see about browning butter again.

865
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: And in the comments there's like ten people are like

866
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: Josh from stuff you Should Know set me here. It

867
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: was like weird, like bizarre thing because I wasn't expecting

868
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: it at all. But the upshot of it is I

869
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: tried Sally's Baking Addiction brown butter sugar cookies. They may

870
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: be even better than the brown butter chocolate chip cookies.

871
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: So if you tried the chocolate chip cookies, please, I

872
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: beseech you go make the sugar cookies too. Yeah, and

873
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: trunk and chocolate chip cookies. Okay, we'll try them all.

874
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: I've got no problem with that. They're all good. You

875
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: got anything else? Nothing, I'm just starving now. Who was

876
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: that cookie that wrote in? That was Cookie? Yeah? Cool? Great? Well,

877
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: if you want to be like Cookie and get us

878
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: going about cookies, you can send us an email to

879
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should

880
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

881
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

882
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows