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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Chuck here on a Saturday. I'm just sitting

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Speaker 1: here drawing cubes and things with my poor artwork. But

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Speaker 1: you know who was really good at this? Mc Esher

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Speaker 1: And this episode from December twenty nineteen gets all into

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Speaker 1: the life of the great artist. And the title is

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Speaker 1: mc esher and his Trippy Art. I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and

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Speaker 3: there's Jerry over there, and this is Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 2: The Arts Sea.

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Speaker 1: Edition is Jerry Roomtone. Roland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's make believe stuff.

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Speaker 1: Room tone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She might as well be like, let me capture a

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Speaker 3: few fairies in this, Mason jow First.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the same thing.

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Speaker 1: We may need us in the final edit. Perry, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is about to explain to everyone.

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Speaker 1: Room tone is you do this on film sets and

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Speaker 1: in studios where you just make everyone sit completely silently

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Speaker 1: while you capture the sound of the room. So I

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Speaker 1: guess you can. What do you do with that, Joe?

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Speaker 1: Do you layer it in in case you need it

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Speaker 1: or something. Did you hear that? Everyone?

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Speaker 3: She said, she cleans up the background to everybody listening.

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Speaker 3: It sounded like.

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Speaker 1: There's something about it. Though. It's like being in church

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Speaker 1: and getting the giggles. Like it's really hard, especially on

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Speaker 1: a film set when there's like fifty people standing around

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Speaker 1: being completely silent.

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Speaker 3: I suspect it's strictly a power trip, you think, So

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Speaker 3: the person calling for a room tone, that's what I think.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start doing that my house when things

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Speaker 1: get out of hand room tone?

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Speaker 2: Do you think that works?

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Speaker 3: Don't make me bust out the room tone on you? Well,

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Speaker 3: since this no, no, I was going to say, since

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Speaker 3: we're talking about room tone, obviously, the topic today is

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Speaker 3: mc escher, who is well known for going berserk anytime

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Speaker 3: someone asked him to be quiet for room tone, trash chairs,

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Speaker 3: grab reptiles straight out of the two dimensions and throw

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Speaker 3: them into the third dimension, just do all sorts of weird.

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Speaker 1: Stuff that's funny.

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Speaker 2: Did you think so that was a joke just for you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So he everyone knows mc es or. If you've

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Speaker 1: ever been to college or taken drugs.

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Speaker 2: Or sold drugs to somebody in college.

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Speaker 1: Then you've probably seen hands drawing hands or I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's not what the name of that one.

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Speaker 2: Was, but it's called drawing hands, oh is it?

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Speaker 1: Or the Some of his more famous ones are the

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Speaker 1: these impossible rooms like stairs that lead to sideway stairs

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Speaker 1: but you got to wrap your head around it in

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Speaker 1: a certain way to even make sense of it, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, or stairs that lead into other stairs that lead

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Speaker 3: back into the other stairs.

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Speaker 2: Sure this is constant.

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Speaker 1: Or I'm a big fan of that one self portrait

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Speaker 1: he did in the with the sphere. Yeah, the mirror sphere,

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Speaker 1: mirror sphere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool, it is very cool.

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Speaker 3: I'm not crazy about the face, even though I'm sure

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Speaker 3: he did it exactly precise, but the hand, if you

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Speaker 3: look at the hand, it's really realistic.

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Speaker 2: It's very pretty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like this stuff. This is not

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Speaker 1: my style, as in anything I would put on my

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Speaker 1: walls these days, but I still think he's one of

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Speaker 1: the coolest, more innovative artists out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there's a great factoid that I hope will hold

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Speaker 1: till the end, which not the end but kind of

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Speaker 1: where it falls in our So what an outline?

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Speaker 3: What does factoid mean against I mean you've killed ten

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Speaker 3: percent of all the facts, that's right, and this is

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Speaker 3: just one of the ten percent remaining.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. So one of the things you chuck about MC.

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Speaker 3: I sure that I found was that if you were

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Speaker 3: impressed by his work, prepared to get exponentially more impressed

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Speaker 3: as we talk about how he made those works. Well too,

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Speaker 3: that's the fact of the show too for me. Oh okay,

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Speaker 3: that's the factoid you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a hold onto that.

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Speaker 3: Oh sure, sure, sure sure. I was just teasing it

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Speaker 3: a little bit. I didn't know that's what you're talking about,

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Speaker 3: although I should have guessed. Yeah. So this is a

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Speaker 3: talking about an artist, which means that we should probably

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Speaker 3: talk about the artist being born. And in the case

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Speaker 3: of MC Escher, whose name, by the way, was Moritz Cornelis,

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Speaker 3: I want to say Cornelius, but there's no U in there.

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Speaker 1: I think Cornelis.

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Speaker 3: Sure Esher, I nailed the last nurme. That's right, But

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Speaker 3: I misspoke on name.

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Speaker 1: Oh you didn't say the name nrme.

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Speaker 2: So I nailed the last nurme.

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Speaker 3: This is the point where the people say, get to

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Speaker 3: the point already.

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Speaker 1: Well we are at that point. That's MC and then

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Speaker 1: Esher born June seventeenth, eighteen ninety eight, not nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: as the Grabster put it. Yeah, it was like, man,

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Speaker 1: he's like, here's the numbers. He was born in leu Warden, Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: grew up in Arnheim, which is about sixty miles southeast

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Speaker 1: of Amsterdam.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, I mapped all this stuff out nice, kind

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Speaker 1: of that general area.

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Speaker 2: He went on a little Google tour.

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Speaker 1: Sure, and he signed even from early on as MCE

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Speaker 1: he signed his paintings, although people called him mock m

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Speaker 1: a UK friends and family.

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Speaker 3: Right, which didn't mean anything, Ed points out. But it's

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Speaker 3: just like, you know, an affectionate term for Moritz. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: is it Mouritz?

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Speaker 1: Probably Maritz Maurites, cornelis Escher, but.

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Speaker 2: It could also go the way of Morris. So is

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Speaker 2: it Moritz or more?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I wish I knew.

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Speaker 1: Well. What we do know is that in this we

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Speaker 1: should put a pin in because it sort of plays

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Speaker 1: a big part in how he pursued his art. But

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Speaker 1: his dad had some money.

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Speaker 2: He was a rich kid, yeah for sure.

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Speaker 1: Which really helps. As we'll see as he's trapesing around Europe.

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Speaker 3: On dad's dime, slowly getting better at art slowly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point, because he was not great

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Speaker 1: in school. He did love drawing class, but apparently wasn't

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Speaker 1: you know, he didn't have his second grade teachers falling

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Speaker 1: over themselves about what a talented artist he was.

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Speaker 3: No, and apparently he also didn't consider himself much of

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Speaker 3: an artist, although he engaged in art like he did

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Speaker 3: produce art from a very young age. He was terrible

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Speaker 3: in school, except at math and at drawing. Apparently when

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Speaker 3: he was in grade school primary school he failed as finals,

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Speaker 3: all of them except for math. And I read that

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Speaker 3: his father noted in his journal with some affection that

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Speaker 3: his son consoled himself by producing a lina type of

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Speaker 3: a sunflower. That's how he made himself feel better after

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Speaker 3: failing out of school.

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Speaker 1: Well, and he was somewhat adept at math early on.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting his work is highly mathematical as far

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Speaker 1: as art goes, but later on in life, when he

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Speaker 1: was confronted with real mathematicians, he would sort of be like, no,

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Speaker 1: not me, man, I'm an artist. Well, I'm not that

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Speaker 1: kind of mathematician.

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Speaker 3: So I said yes. But he was most of his

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Speaker 3: friends were mathematicians. For most of his career, he was

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Speaker 3: mostly appreciated by mathematicians and scientists. Those are the people

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Speaker 3: who really vibed on his work and drugs that came later.

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Speaker 3: That came later, and he got real popular. But I

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Speaker 3: saw that somebody made a movie called Journey into Infinity documentary,

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Speaker 3: full length documentary.

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Speaker 2: I believe the whole.

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Speaker 3: Thing's on YouTube, and it starts out.

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Speaker 2: The trailer starts out with.

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Speaker 3: Graham Nash saying, Hey, I called up mc esher one

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Speaker 3: day just to say, mister Esher, I think you're a

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Speaker 3: really great artist. That's all I wanted you to say.

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Speaker 3: And he said, I don't consider myself an artist. I

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Speaker 3: consider myself a mathematician. Oh really, yes, So I'm going

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Speaker 3: with Graham Nash's interpretation as counter to this spoke to

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Speaker 3: him directly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's crazy. He I mean, not

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Speaker 1: to spoil anything, but he died in nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: at just seventy three. So you know, if he would

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Speaker 1: have lived to his like mid eighties, which is somewhat reasonable,

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Speaker 1: he would have been like alive in the eighties, which

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Speaker 1: just seems so weird.

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Speaker 3: It does seem kind of weird, you know, yeah, because

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Speaker 3: he was. He seems countercultural for sure, even though him

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Speaker 3: his personality was not very countercultural. No, and he didn't

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Speaker 3: really have much love for hippies. In fact, he later

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Speaker 3: said that the hippies in San Francisco are legally making

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Speaker 3: copies of my work. He didn't exactly follow, you know,

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Speaker 3: the normal usual beat throughout his lifetime. And he was

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Speaker 3: a mathematician. He was a bit of a square, but

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Speaker 3: he was also a very imaginative square.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I was trying to make a square joke,

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Speaker 1: but it's not coming to me.

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Speaker 2: Remember that show, Square peg, square peg, square, yeah, square peg.

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Speaker 3: Sarah Jesica Parker was she in that. She was also

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Speaker 3: in Girls Just Want to Have Fun, That's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm going to see her on Broadway next spring.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah. She and her husband are co starring in

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Speaker 1: Plaza Suite and Neil Simon's Plaza Sweet. Very nice, very

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Speaker 1: excited about that. But I'm trying to align it with

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Speaker 1: a Bonnie Prince Billy show. But they're like a week apart,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I can't just stay in New York.

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Speaker 3: Time to kill, especially when there's hourly flights between Atlanta

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Speaker 3: and New York.

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Speaker 1: I know, I may just go see Bonnie Prince Billy

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Speaker 1: and come home because he didn't play much. But that's

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Speaker 1: a story for another day, all right. So he goes

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Speaker 1: to school at Technical College of Delft, not for very long,

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Speaker 1: and then he went to the Harlem with two A's

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Speaker 1: School of Architecture and Decorative Arts, which is west of Amsterdam,

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Speaker 1: not Harlem, New York.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's what the Harlem, New York is

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Speaker 3: named after. Right, Yeah, that's where Bonnie Prince.

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Speaker 1: He's at town Hall.

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Speaker 2: Actually, Oh is that right? Yeah, we played there.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We got our stink on that joint. So

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Speaker 1: his dad said, you know, because you know, his dad

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Speaker 1: had a lot of money and made money, and even

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Speaker 1: though you want to support your kids, you want you

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Speaker 1: want to try and edge them into something. Sure, if

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Speaker 1: you're that kind of dude, that might be lucrative. So

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Speaker 1: he said, hey, you like to draw shapes, why don't

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Speaker 1: you go study architecture. And he did that for a

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Speaker 1: little while, even though he wasn't super into it. But

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Speaker 1: while at school there he had a very fortunate meeting

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Speaker 1: by being mentored by one Samuel Jasurin Demisquita m.

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Speaker 3: Who would be his mentor, who noticed some of his

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Speaker 3: early art. I'm not sure how he saw it, but

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Speaker 3: he took one look at Esher's art and said, you

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Speaker 3: don't need to go into architecture. Come study under me

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Speaker 3: and learn graphic design. And so Escher did. He became

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Speaker 3: a graphic designer, which he whether he knew it or not,

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Speaker 3: he had been his whole life up to that point.

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Speaker 3: All of his work is very graphic in nature and designing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really really is.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure his dad in the early, you know,

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties was probably like, is that even a thing, right?

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Speaker 2: That sounds made up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, his dad also, I don't know if you said

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Speaker 3: or not, was a civil engineer, so of course he

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Speaker 3: would be like, you draw, just go do architecture, right,

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Speaker 3: that's what I know, civil engineering, and there's architects in

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Speaker 3: the world. Just go do the other thing that I

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Speaker 3: don't do.

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Speaker 1: And he probably thought graphic design just meant like you're

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Speaker 1: gonna make signs.

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Speaker 3: Right or post his stamps or Christmas paper, which he

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Speaker 3: did later on.

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Speaker 1: That's right, until he made a little bit of dough.

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Speaker 1: So in the early nineteen twenties, he started on his

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Speaker 1: sort of rich kid journey, traveling around Europe on his

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Speaker 1: dad's dime.

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Speaker 2: On a gap year that was really really long.

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Speaker 1: Very long. But on one of these trips he went

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Speaker 1: to a couple of places that would end up having

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Speaker 1: a big influence on him. Yeah, one in Spain at

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Speaker 1: the Alhambra, and then just traveling through southern Italy through

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Speaker 1: the countryside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just fell in love with Italy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but in Spain this is this is one that

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Speaker 1: didn't bear fruit right away, but he was really fascinated

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Speaker 1: by these mosaics and tesselations, which are described as.

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Speaker 3: Okay, they are repeating designs that interlock with one another,

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Speaker 3: leave no space between one another, and that when you

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Speaker 3: fit them together they fully cover a plane, which is

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Speaker 3: harder to do than you would think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, if you've ever seen the esher fish sort

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Speaker 1: of tesselation.

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Speaker 3: The whitefish and the blackfish kind of working in one another.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a perfect example. And he would do this

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Speaker 1: a lot later on. If you've ever played Cubert, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those cubes are tesselations, sure, a certain kind. But he

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Speaker 1: got really into this, even though it wasn't like right

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Speaker 1: away that he started doing these things that sort of

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Speaker 1: came a little bit later. But what he did do

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Speaker 1: was started drawing the Italian countryside because he loved it.

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Speaker 2: Loved it, I mean, like he went to Italy, he

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Speaker 2: was like, this is my home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And he was quoted at one point in time as

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Speaker 3: saying like he never wanted to be an Italian among Italians.

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Speaker 3: He liked being a stranger, but he loved Italy, which.

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Speaker 1: Is an interesting thing to say. I'm not exactly sure

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Speaker 1: what it means.

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Speaker 3: I think what he was saying was he he likes

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Speaker 3: being a visitor to Italy rather than there's a certain

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Speaker 3: amount of responsibility that comes with being one of us,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Whereas if you can be

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Speaker 3: like that guy over there, who will accept him. We're

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Speaker 3: not going to throw rocks at him every time we

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Speaker 3: see him or anything like that, and we'll take his

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Speaker 3: money and you know, maybe even say hi.

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Speaker 2: To him or whatever, but we'll leave him alone.

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Speaker 3: We won't include him in our expectations of what it

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Speaker 3: means to be a local. Gotcha, That's what I think

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Speaker 3: he was after. Clearly I can identify with that.

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Speaker 1: Well. That kind of came through in his work too,

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Speaker 1: because if you'll notice even in these, before he started

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Speaker 1: doing the like trippy three dimensional handstrawing hands and stuff,

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Speaker 1: when he was doing countrysides, he didn't do a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, didn't do a lot of faces. People were

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Speaker 1: very much in the background and nondescript. But even when

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Speaker 1: you look at these, when you say Italian still lives

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Speaker 1: of countrysides, what came to mind for me were these beautiful, lush,

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Speaker 1: colorful recreations of a countryside. Nope, Nope, when you look

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Speaker 1: at these, they still look very much like in the

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Speaker 1: mc escher style that we all know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like very clearly. A lot of love them too.

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Speaker 1: They're cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're black and white and then shades of gray,

302
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Speaker 3: which is all just shading, right, Yeah, but they are

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Speaker 3: beautiful in their way and lovely.

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Speaker 1: Even I like this stuff more than the trippy stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean this is something I would

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Speaker 1: put on my wall.

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Speaker 3: You're an art snob, You're like, oh, I only like

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Speaker 3: Esher's early Italian landscapes.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, you take that, say the trippy stuff for

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Speaker 2: Graham Nash.

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Speaker 1: I'm so ashamed.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it's great, Chuck. You you have.

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Speaker 1: Totally right but they are gorgeous. And then in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty three he met his wife.

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Speaker 2: His name was Jetta jedda Umaker.

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Speaker 1: That's right, very nice, thank you.

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Speaker 2: She was learned from the.

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Speaker 1: They met her in Italy, but she was Swiss and

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Speaker 1: she went home and they sent a bunch of love letters.

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Speaker 1: It's a very sweet story. I'm sure an mcacsher movie

321
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Speaker 1: would be pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: Somebody wrote a script or they wrote a dissertation about

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Speaker 3: the process of writing a script about mc esher. It's

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Speaker 3: from University of Texas. I wrote it in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember the name of it. But just look up. Oh,

326
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Speaker 3: just some random stuff comes up if you look up

327
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Speaker 3: mosquito bootprint, which will come up later. But if you

328
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Speaker 3: search that on Google, it brings up Have you ever

329
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Speaker 3: done that? Have you ever been like, I'm bored. I

330
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Speaker 3: want to see what weird stuff I can unlock from Google.

331
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Speaker 3: And it takes a certain amount of skill because Google

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Speaker 3: wants to give you exactly what you're looking for. It

333
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Speaker 3: doesn't want to give you just randomness, so you have

334
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Speaker 3: to trick it. So maybe you'll you'll type in a

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Speaker 3: weird word or the first three letters of a word

336
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 3: or something like that, and weird stuff will start to come.

337
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Speaker 3: Well if you type in mosquito. Probably only like the

338
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Speaker 3: first three of them pertained to m cescher and the

339
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 3: rest are just a random assortment of links.

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Speaker 1: I remember, early in the days of Google, we had

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Speaker 1: a mutual friend who they did this what I thought

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00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 1: was a very dumb game where they would try and

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Speaker 1: find two words together that they would try and produce

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Speaker 1: the fewest amount of Google results. And whoever could put

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Speaker 1: two words together that found the fewest one. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember them doing that, but

347
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Speaker 1: so I don't know. I don't remember you talking about

348
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Speaker 1: lost a waste of time.

349
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Speaker 2: But I remember that some guy did, like a ted

350
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Speaker 2: talk about that.

351
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Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, Oh well, maybe I'm the dummy.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at me. I'd like mcsher's early work.

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Speaker 2: I think that's awesome. I mean, what taste. Yeah, you know.

355
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Speaker 1: So he meets and gets married. She returns to Italy

356
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Speaker 1: and they married nineteen twenty four.

357
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Speaker 2: Do you mean Jeda Umaker.

358
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Speaker 1: That's right. She would become Jeda Esher.

359
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Speaker 2: Jeda Umiker Esher, and.

360
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Speaker 1: They had a son named Georgio. Later had sons, Arthur

361
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Speaker 1: and Jan and uh, they were still just sort of

362
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 1: traveling and his dad was even though he was married,

363
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,400
Speaker 1: his dad was still footing the bill.

364
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Speaker 3: Esher's dad father, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which I was just

365
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,199
Speaker 3: thinking about it. I was like, gosh, you know, I

366
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Speaker 3: get a benefactor. Wake up every day and look at

367
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Speaker 3: yourself in the mirror.

368
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Speaker 1: But if you're if you're in the mirror sphere.

369
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Speaker 2: Right, how do you and then how do you draw it?

370
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

371
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Speaker 3: So amazingly the the father Esher's father though, and like,

372
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Speaker 3: what better way to spend your money than to just

373
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Speaker 3: be like, this is what you want to do with

374
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Speaker 3: your life, son, you want to pursue art and live

375
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Speaker 3: in beautiful Italy than like here, this is what I

376
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 3: want for you.

377
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Speaker 1: And that's like, that's awesome.

378
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Speaker 3: That's the pinnacle of what a parent can do for

379
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Speaker 3: their child in a lot of ways.

380
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Speaker 1: No, totally know.

381
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,239
Speaker 3: It's not like, hey, why don't you go, you know,

382
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 3: take up Heroin and here's a bunch of money for

383
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 3: you to like lay around in a BEFA.

384
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Speaker 1: True I want to know more. I'm not I hope

385
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm not coming across his cynical but I wonder if

386
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 1: some of this was like, he'll come around if I

387
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: you know, to architecture or whatever.

388
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 3: Right, you kept waiting for the part where his father

389
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 3: cuts him off. I was his father apparently wouldn't like that.

390
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 3: All right, I know how you feel. I'm not trying

391
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Speaker 3: to talk you into my way of thinking. I'm not

392
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 3: saying like I had. I started out thinking the same

393
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 3: way you did. And then something happened. I was like, Oh,

394
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Speaker 3: it was actually really neat of his dad.

395
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Speaker 1: It was it all seems above board. Yeah. So World

396
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 1: War Two has a profound effect on Esher and his work.

397
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,719
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty five, he learned that they were making

398
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: his nine year old son, Georgio, marching fascist youth parades,

399
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: and he said, pack your bags, we're going to Switzerland.

400
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 3: That is the appropriate response to that news. Yeah, we're

401
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 3: getting out of here marching for Mussolini.

402
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 1: Have you seen Jojo Rabbit yet?

403
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 2: No? Is it good? Is it as good as it looks?

404
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:55,160
Speaker 1: It's great?

405
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I can't wait.

406
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: It's great. Everything about it is created.

407
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 2: I need to see it in theater. It doesn't like

408
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 2: one I have to see any No.

409
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's always fun to laugh with

410
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 1: a big group of people, although by now it's probably

411
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,479
Speaker 1: thinned out. Yeah, and I was laughing a lot and

412
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 1: people weren't laughing. Oh, I like that kind of one

413
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 1: of those deals. Yeah, I mean, it's a movie about

414
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: a kid having Hitler as an imaginary friend.

415
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 2: So don't tell me that I didn't know. I know,

416
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 2: I had no idea Itler's on the poster. I know,

417
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 2: but I didn't know he was an imaginary friend. Oh,

418
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 2: get out of my brain.

419
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 1: Sorry, that really doesn't spoil anything.

420
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 2: Okay, like, don't tell me any not some big reveal.

421
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: So they go to Switzerland. All apologies, it's really not a.

422
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,360
Speaker 2: Big deal as long as it's not a big spoiler.

423
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, of course not.

424
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 2: Okay.

425
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,400
Speaker 1: They go to Switzerland and he even though he did

426
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: not like the mountains, he didn't like the snow, did

427
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: not like cold weather. So they moved to Belgium after

428
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: a couple of years.

429
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 2: Which is just beautiful compared to Switzerland.

430
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: Belgium's nice sure in the nineteen In May of nineteen forty, though,

431
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: the Nazzis invaded Belgium, and so they moved to the

432
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: Netherlands in nineteen forty one.

433
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 3: Where the Nazis already were. Yeah, I guess they really

434
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 3: can't occupy it again.

435
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: Well in its home right, and they settled in Barn,

436
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: which is about twenty three miles southeast of Amsterdam.

437
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's how you're supposed to say it.

438
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: B aa aaar inn, I like it's probably Barn.

439
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'll bet you just nailed it.

440
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: I think so. But Dutchess very strange. It is language,

441
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 1: but it's supposed that's strange. But just for my English,

442
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: dumb English.

443
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 2: Years, supposedly English is the strangest of all.

444
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure it's just.

445
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: A hybrid mongrel language.

446
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 3: Yet that doesn't make any sense to anyone who's not

447
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 3: a native speaker of it.

448
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 1: You know, what is an interesting language is Welsh. Because

449
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm watching the Crown and when Prince Charles starts coming around,

450
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: Prince of Wales, there's people speaking Welsh. And I was

451
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: very ignorant about even knowing that what it sounds like,

452
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: what it sounds like, and that it was still spoken,

453
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: and it was a very odd hybrid. It sounded like

454
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: of several different things.

455
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: It's all old Celtic stuff.

456
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, very unusual.

457
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 3: Gallic, gallic, Yeah, I think it's Gallic. It's the language group,

458
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 3: one of the two.

459
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

460
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: Everything I know about Welsh I learned from super furry animals.

461
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because that guy's welsh Man.

462
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: I saw them blood granddaddy off the stage one time.

463
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: Oh you saw him live?

464
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: Oh I think you told me that he melted. My

465
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: brain was so good all that. So they're traveling around still,

466
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: even though they're settled in Barn, and they go back

467
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: to al Hambra in Spain, which I don't think we

468
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 1: said what that is.

469
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 3: No, it's a thirteenth century Moorish castle from when the

470
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 3: Moors conquered Spain.

471
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

472
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 2: It is very beautiful, and they.

473
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: Built it in the Moorish style and then it was

474
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 3: eventually like taken over by the Christian like royalty that

475
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: explored the New World and all that stuff. Yeah, but

476
00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 3: this castle was done in these tiles that are noun

477
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: for being some of the most beautiful geometric like Islamic

478
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: patterns you've ever seen in your life. And they got

479
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 3: to esher. He'd seen him before, but it was I

480
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 3: guess he was like, oh, that's kind of cool. But

481
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 3: the second trip that he went back with after they

482
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 3: moved from Switzerland. I think to Belgium or maybe to Switzerland.

483
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 3: That's when he was like, I am obsessed with these

484
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: Now these tessellations.

485
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: Started drawing him. Jetted it too. It says that they

486
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: worked together. So I didn't know that she was an artist.

487
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't either.

488
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: But they World War two comes back around, will not

489
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: comes back around. It never left, let's be honest. But

490
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: Spain would devolve into civil war. And so this meant

491
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: that he was kind of stuck in outside of Amsterdam

492
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: for a little while longer. Yeah, he wasn't doing as

493
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: much traveling.

494
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 3: No, he was in the Netherlands and he rekindled his

495
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: friendship with Mosquita, his old mentor who had stayed in

496
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 3: Netherlands this whole time. And Mosquita was Jewish and he

497
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: was taken away by the Nazis. Eventually he was killed

498
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 3: at Auschwitz, I believe, with his wife and their son

499
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 3: was also killed at another concentration camp by the Nazis.

500
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: And this really got to esher, like, this is one

501
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 3: of his dear friends. And he had a work a

502
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: sketch of Mosquitos. When he went to his house to

503
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: visit Mosquito, he found the door was opened and they

504
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: weren't there, and they'd clearly been taken by the Nazis.

505
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 3: And one of the pieces of artwork that he gathered

506
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 3: together to preserve was a sketch of mosquitos that had

507
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 3: a Nazi bootprint on it.

508
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: And that's what you were referenced earlier with your.

509
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: Google search mosquito bootprint.

510
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: Did you Was there a picture of it?

511
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: No?

512
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't find anything aside from the fact that it

513
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: was a sketch, not that it was a sketch of

514
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: what or anything like that, just that there was a

515
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 3: sketch of mosquitos that had boor bootprint, and the Escher

516
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 3: hung onto this his his entire life. It was very

517
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 3: important to him.

518
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: And he was not.

519
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: A very flowery, like like passionate man or anything like that.

520
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: I get the impression that he and this is esture

521
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 3: I'm talking about, that he internalized a lot of stuff,

522
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 3: and I think that him holding on to that piece

523
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: of art was probably more significant than even it appears

524
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: on the outside.

525
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and supposedly hid some people from a Jewish family

526
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: during the Nazi occupation years, and also during those same years,

527
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: did not exhibit or release any prints.

528
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, I think you just said hid some

529
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 3: people from a Jewish family, or did you say hid

530
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: some members of a Jewish family.

531
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: Well, people members of a Jewish family.

532
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: But you said from I think yeah.

533
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean like they were from a Jewish family.

534
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: Oh oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

535
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: He didn't hide them from right, don't.

536
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Tell the Jewish family that you're hiding over here.

537
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: No, that would have been weird. So maybe we should

538
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: take a break now.

539
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's unraveled for the point the guys

540
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: are yeah.

541
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 3: All right, okay, Chuck. So World War two kind of

542
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: comes and goes around esher despite his best efforts to

543
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: escape it, and it definitely had a mark on him.

544
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 3: But one of the other things that that had a

545
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 3: really big mark on him was having to move from

546
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: Italy because, like you said, like he was married, had

547
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: a family, his father was still supporting him, and every

548
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: spring and summer he would just tour the Italian countryside

549
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: and visit small quaint towns be inspired to keep making

550
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: these Italian landscapes. But Ed makes a really great point

551
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 3: here that his Italian landscapes are very handsome works of art,

552
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: very beautiful, my favorite, technically proficient. They're Chuck's favorite. But

553
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: you would almost certainly have never seen them in your

554
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: entire life now were it not for him moving from Italy,

555
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: because in doing so he lost his source of inspiration

556
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: and was forced to kind of turn inward because he

557
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 3: hated what Switzerland looked like. He wasn't apparently very inspired

558
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 3: by his home country of the Netherlands, so he had

559
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 3: to kind of turn inward into his own imagination and

560
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: start coming up with new subjects, and in doing that,

561
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: the true Escher was unlocked.

562
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, because early and like a lot of artists early

563
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: in their career, they kind of free ranged through different styles,

564
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: trying to find their own personal thing.

565
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: He had a very very colorful clown period. It's very bizarre.

566
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: Doesn't fit with the rest of it.

567
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: Arry, John Wayne Gacy, You're right, but you can very

568
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: clearly see if you look at Mosquito's work that connection

569
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: and the influence from him. Although Mosquita did a lot

570
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: of sort of graphic portraits and things like that, whereas

571
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: Esher didn't really worry too much about humans and faces.

572
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they were just kind of like almost afterthoughts.

573
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: But early on he did start experimenting with stuff that

574
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: would later become sort of his hallmark. When he did

575
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: do a sketch of a building, let's say it would

576
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: be from this really like tall odd angle looking down

577
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: on it, very severe angles and like a horizon, or

578
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: trees that sort of go on into infinity. Stuff like that,

579
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: that would become very much his style. Later on, and

580
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: ed Various Stuteley points out that there's something about his

581
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: style that I don't know how dark of a person

582
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: he was emotionally, but there is something about the severity

583
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: of these angles and a lot of his work that

584
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: was just sort of uneasy feeling, right. It didn't look

585
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: like just some beautiful, colorful Italian countryside. There was something

586
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: kind of strange and unusual about it.

587
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: Something about the contrast of black and white definitely does

588
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: it too. And he was such a master of shading

589
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 3: that if something was stark and black and white, I mean,

590
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: unless it was his earliest work, was because he wanted

591
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 3: it to look that way and to make it stark

592
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: and kind of unsettling like that. But yeah, there's like

593
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: a certain amount of dread in a lot of his stuff. Yeah,

594
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: and it's not something you can easily put your finger on,

595
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: but it's definitely there.

596
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, like did you see the mummified priests? Yeah, that

597
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: was creepy and then one of them.

598
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: Isn't it more creepy to actually do that in real

599
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: life to stand them up like that? And these little alcoves?

600
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, absolutely sure.

601
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: He was just don't kill the messenger.

602
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: And he would have sometimes skulls featured in some of

603
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: his work and stuff like that, like the one of

604
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: the eye believe called eye right in the middle of

605
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: the people is a skull staring back. So he had

606
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: little touches like that without going full like you know,

607
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: love Craftian.

608
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: Right or Goya or something like that.

609
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: And I don't even know, Bosh, I don't know who

610
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: that is.

611
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: Sure you do, I'm just kidding, Okay, I know those people. Okay, So.

612
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: His I guess this is where we get to the

613
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: fact of the show for me. Take it away, Chuck,

614
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: because folks, if you've ever seen an mcsher print and

615
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: you thought, man, that guy could sure draw a print,

616
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: imagine cutting that out of wood in reverse, in reverse.

617
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: Because that's what he did. A lot of his stuff

618
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 3: were wood cuts. Even harder than that, Chuck, is the lithograph.

619
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a woodcut if you've ever made used a

620
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: stamp or made a potato stamp as your kid.

621
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: You're basically.

622
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: Well, that's what it is. He's actually carving the stuff

623
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: into wood as a negative image, because then when you

624
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: run ink over it and stamp it, you get the

625
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: positive image. And it's just incredible. I mean, it's hard

626
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: enough to draw and sketch this stuff, much less cut

627
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: it out of wood.

628
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 3: Right, So just take a step back and think about

629
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 3: the eshers that you've seen before. Imagine that they were

630
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: originally carved out of wood, and now imagine that to

631
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: get even more detailing. Because you can't adjust how much

632
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: ink a certain part of the woodblock gets. It's all

633
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: going to get an even layer of ink. So to

634
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: shade something you have to do cross hatching, lines, stippling

635
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: something like that. But to get really detailed with shading,

636
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: you need multiple blocks of the same image in the

637
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: exact same size, with different parts accentuated so that you

638
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: can layer over. You can take the same paper and

639
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: layer them on different blocks and line them up so

640
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: that you have layers to this image. That was the

641
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: level of the woodcuts this guy was doing.

642
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's sort of like a T shirt hippie exactly.

643
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: Screen printing, like a four color shirt. You gotta layer,

644
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: you gotta put it on exactly in the in the

645
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: spot that it needs to go each time drag that

646
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: inc across so it's not you know, off by a

647
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: centimeter right, because it would look bad.

648
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: So the woodcuts, especially as earlier woodcuts, you can tell

649
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: their woodcuts.

650
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: They look like woodcuts. Some of them do not.

651
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: There's some of the Italian countryside that favorites are just yeah,

652
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: are just astounding. And when you stop and think about

653
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: the idea that they there's not a drawing that there

654
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 3: wood cuts, multiple blocked woodcuts, is pretty astounding. But like

655
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: I was saying to me, even even more difficult is

656
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: making the lithograph. Yeah.

657
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: I think I talked about this on some other episode.

658
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: I know it talked about batikuing, but I also talked

659
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: to in industrial arts. We did of lithography in that

660
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: social experiment high school. Yeah, exactly, we did offset lithography,

661
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: which basically, I mean that's the process today. I mean,

662
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: that's how they make newspapers, posters, books, maps, kind of

663
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: everything is with offset lithography.

664
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: It was in do you remember it was in the

665
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: etch A sketch episode. Oh that's what Ohio Art originally

666
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: did was lithography.

667
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: Okay, well this is this is pre like today, use

668
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: like aluminum or some other kind of metal sheet and

669
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 1: these emulsions and chemicals. Back then it was drawn onto limestone,

670
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 1: a flat slab of limestone with a grease pencil, and

671
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: then use a chemical treatment on the areas that basically

672
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: water and ink don't mix. It's sort of all built

673
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: on that principle. So the areas where you have written

674
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: in Greece do not hold that ink or is it

675
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: the other way around?

676
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: No, I think they don't hold the a.

677
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, what you're doing is creating a negative image,

678
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: just like the woodcut essentially.

679
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: Right, So you've got this attraction and repulsion interplay between ink,

680
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: water and grease, and when you put it all together

681
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: on limestone, it makes these extremely subtle gradients of shading

682
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: that are kind of like a hallmark of some of

683
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: Esher's more well known works. Yeah, the hands drawing hands, right, Yeah,

684
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: that was a lithograph. He made that with limestone and

685
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 3: grease pen and ink, and did it in reverse too,

686
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: because just like with a woodblock, you have to create

687
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: the negative of it, Yah, because you want the positive

688
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 3: image on the paper.

689
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: You have a very special brain if this is if

690
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: you can work this stuff out as an artist. Yes,

691
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's not saying that any kind of artist

692
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: is any better or worse or smarter than the next.

693
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: But your brain just has to be wired a little

694
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: bit differently to thinking negatives.

695
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: Like that, like a mathematician. Basically, yeah, your brain has

696
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: to be set up that way.

697
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, But lithography is difficult, very labor intensive. So

698
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: later on he would hire a lithographer to actually create

699
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: his prints after he's sketched and drawn the stuff out.

700
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: Smart move, And he would destroy the limestone. Well, he

701
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't destroy it, he would scrape it clean so we

702
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: could reuse it. So that's the reason. Like if you

703
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: want to buy an original mc escher, good luck.

704
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: Well there's no such thing. There's original prints that he made,

705
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: right And apparently you're.

706
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: Not going to get your hands one of those limestones.

707
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 3: No, but there are a couple of those left over.

708
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 3: But he said that he wanted him. I think canceled

709
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: is what they call it in his will right where

710
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: they intentionally damage it so that even if you got

711
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: a hold of one of these things, and you were like, I'm.

712
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: Going to print me a brain new Esher.

713
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: There'd be like the like the negative image of Snegel

714
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: Puss like comes through the hand drawing hands picture.

715
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: And he did not do many original prints from those

716
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: original woodcuts and lithographs either. I think he only did

717
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: ten of still life with spherical mirror, and so anything, obviously,

718
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: anything you'd buy in a Spencer Gifts is going to

719
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: be a print anyway.

720
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: What they told me it was an original.

721
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: You mean bikini lady on Corvette.

722
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: You can probably get the original of that at Spencer.

723
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: Probably could the original negative.

724
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: Bikini lady on Corvette. Man remember that Starfield with Lamborghini.

725
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: These lithographs, he would also layer those just like you

726
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: did with the woodcuts, creating multiple plates to layer on

727
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: top of one another for shading and toning and stuff

728
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: like that. It's just amazing. I mean I did it

729
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: to make a Monkey's T shirt.

730
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 2: I forgot used to screenprint too, so did.

731
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: I Yeah, yeah, well actually the Monkeys T shirt was

732
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: screen printing. I think can remember what I did for

733
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: a lithograph. I think something to make a notepad that

734
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: said like my name and something else.

735
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: Oh that's right. So you you screenprinted in industrial arts? Yes, okay,

736
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: like you were you ever employed gainfully as a screen Oh? No?

737
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: Oh no?

738
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: Did you do that?

739
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

740
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: No, I mean I would have loved to it. I

741
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: wasn't good enough.

742
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: It's always not hard.

743
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you would draw the stuff or you would.

744
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I would like burn the screens and

745
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: everything and drag the ink through.

746
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: And you do that for a job, sure, well like

747
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: high school?

748
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 2: No, this is is college.

749
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: What kind of dough do you make doing that?

750
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: Jack?

751
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

752
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: But it's fun. It's cool work, you know, you just

753
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: listening to be in a few bucks pretty much hang

754
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: out with some cool dudes, and you know's.

755
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I gotcha.

756
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: It's a good, good early college job, you know what

757
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean.

758
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: I think it'd be cool. And I mean there's a

759
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: very cool T shirt local T shirt shop here that

760
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: every time I go over there because that's where our friend, uh,

761
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: the patchmaker, Katie Culp works, or at least she used

762
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: to think she's got her own space now, but she

763
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: shared a space with T shirt dudes. And anytime I'm

764
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: in there, it's just a good vibe, you know what

765
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean, It really is there a lot worse places

766
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: to spend your time than a T shirt shop? So oh,

767
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: another thing we should point out is that he did

768
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: do color occasionally, but color was a hole different. You

769
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: had to do a separate stone for each color. So

770
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: that's why a lot of his stuff ended up in

771
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: black and white, aside from the fact that he liked

772
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: it as well.

773
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he seemed to be very pleased with black and

774
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: white in general.

775
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not saying he was lazy.

776
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: No, but let's take a step back here for a

777
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: second and examine the idea that you thought mc yesher

778
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: was a pretty amazing artist when you just imagined that

779
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: he was sitting in his studio drawing all of this

780
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 3: stuff with a pencil. Now, really let it sink in

781
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 3: that he carved these things in reverse out of wood

782
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: or limestone or limestone and then use these crazy techniques

783
00:37:54,160 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: to make these extraordinarily detailed, incredibly precise and technical works

784
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 3: of art.

785
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It really is amazing, truly astounding. And like

786
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: you said, there are a few of those stones and

787
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: woodblocks that are owned by the mc escher Foundation.

788
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 2: Snago puts on every single one of them.

789
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: And apparently they will display them occasionally along with his works.

790
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: Right, which I imagine seeing that and then looking at the

791
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 3: work of art, and then going back and looking at

792
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 3: that limestone and then looking at the work of art.

793
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 3: It really kind of sinks in, like, oh my.

794
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to see an exhibition of his stuff.

795
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: Me too. They've picked up in recent years, have they.

796
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like he's being more appreciated as a

797
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: truly great artist and less college dorm wall material.

798
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeap.

799
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: In twenty eleven, the record for highest overall attendance in

800
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: the world out of all the museums in the world

801
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: that year was at the Centro Cultural Banco to Brazil,

802
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 3: which held their Magical World of Escher exhibit. Oh wow,

803
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 3: five hundred and seventy thousand visitors about ten thousand a day.

804
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: Holy cow.

805
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: Yep.

806
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: So if you think lithography and woodcutting sounds difficult, we'll

807
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: talk a minute about mesotint. That is sort of like woodcutting,

808
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: except you're using a sheet of copper that starts out

809
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: as a rough surface and then use these little tools

810
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: to smooth out things that are going to be the image,

811
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: applying that ink and then wiping it off.

812
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: Right, So the places you smooth out are don't have ink.

813
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: The ones that are going to be white on the

814
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,479
Speaker 3: paper are blank on the paper. Right, it's the rough

815
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: edges that hold the ink. So you cover the whole

816
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: thing with ink, wipe it down. The smooth start parts

817
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: come clean. The rough stuff has the ink, and you

818
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: can use this like this is this isn't like, oh

819
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: look I'm made an X, right, this is like incredibly

820
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: fine stippling is possible with these copper plates and all

821
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 3: this mezotint And that I that you were talking about

822
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: with the skull. If you go back and look at that,

823
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: that was a mezzo tint.

824
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: Yes, it was de drop, very detailed cupped leaf showing

825
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: a single drop of dew inside it, with all kinds

826
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: of cool reflections. But Escher called this the black art.

827
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: He only made eight of these because it is a

828
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: real undertaking, and I think he's just he did a

829
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: handful of him and then moved on to the far

830
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: easier wood cutting.

831
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 2: Right right, He's like, oh, I came back, baby.

832
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: All right, We'll take a break and then we'll come

833
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: back and pick up with his life story again, which

834
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: is I believeably left off in what end of world

835
00:40:40,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: War two sounds right, all right, Okay, world War Two

836
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: is over. Mc esher was, like a lot of people,

837
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: very rattled by that experience in Europe. And at this

838
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: point he's still is not a super famous artist making

839
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: tons of money.

840
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 3: No, but he's more famous than this makes him out

841
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: to be. Like, yeah, he's got some renown in the Netherlands,

842
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 3: there's certain circles of bits. Yeah, but he's not anywhere

843
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: anywhere even approaching how he is today or how he

844
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: has been the last few decades, since about like the

845
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 3: late sixties.

846
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, college dorms have not yet started putting his stuff everywhere.

847
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: No, but the people who who most appreciate what he's

848
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: doing are scientists and mathematicians who are like, this is astounding.

849
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: This guy is taking what we write out as formulas

850
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 3: and turning them into art and making them precise. Yeah,

851
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 3: like you could describe this work of art as a formula.

852
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 3: That is what mc esher was able to do. He

853
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: was able to take math and translate it into a

854
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: visual art.

855
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, remember what you said earlier, This

856
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: is where we are in his life. Where he is

857
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: he is not in the Italian countryside.

858
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 2: He's been ripped from its bodice, So.

859
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: His muse is gone and he is now looking inward

860
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: for his inspiration in his own unique brain.

861
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: He's being forced into his own bodice. Face first.

862
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: This is where he starts with these tessellations, more elaborate

863
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: geometric shapes. He's doing the lizards and the birds and

864
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 1: the insects. His tessellations, really really cool stuff. His brother said, hey, dude,

865
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: you know what you should do is go talk to

866
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: a crystallographer. He's like, if you want to talk detailed

867
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: shapes in maths, And he does so, and that taught

868
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: him a lot. And then he learned about the seventeen

869
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: wallpaper groups, which is so dense that I, you know,

870
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: how much do we even want to talk about it?

871
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: Well, we'll just sum it up.

872
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 3: The seventeen wallpaper groups basically is a mathematical concept that

873
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 3: says every geometric pattern two dimensional geometric pattern falls into

874
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: one of seventeen categories. There's only seventeen, and they're called,

875
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 3: kind of half jokingly, the wallpaper groups because wallpaper has

876
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: geometric patterns. I usually right, Escher couldn't understand it mathematically.

877
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was proved out twice independently that there are

878
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: seventeen wallpapers the mathematical proof.

879
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 3: One of the things that's interesting, Chuck, is the Alhambra

880
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 3: apparently is the only place in the world that contains

881
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: all seventeen geometric wallpaper.

882
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: Patterns within its walls. That's pretty cool.

883
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so of course this would appeal to Esher, But

884
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: he didn't understand. He couldn't sit down and explain, like,

885
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: we can't what the seventeen wallpaper groups are or what

886
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: they mean mathematically, but he understood them intuitively, and as

887
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: he became friends with mathematicians know about mid career, he

888
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 3: was apparently kind of amused to find like, you know,

889
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 3: these guys spend all this time writing this stuff out

890
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: in these formulas, and I just know it. It was

891
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: almost like I was born knowing it. Yeah, you know,

892
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess he was real cocky. Yeah, he

893
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 3: wasn't really just kidding.

894
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: And I didn't get the idea either that he was

895
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: like take your math and shove it. He was just

896
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: a little more amused that, like, you've got these mathematical

897
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: proofs that like, I'm drawing this stuff from my creative

898
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: brain on limestone on limestone, cutting it out of wood.

899
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: So I think he appreciated the way they coalesced. But

900
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: and he was very like you said, most of his

901
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: friends were mathematicians I think later in life. Who did

902
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: he have Penroses? Yeah, Roger and Lionel Pinrose, which I

903
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: love how it's described here, father and son mathematician team. Yeah, yeah,

904
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: you know those.

905
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: They were matching dolphin shorts, oh man, part of their uniform.

906
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: I wish people still wore those. Yeah, did you ever

907
00:44:58,880 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: wear those?

908
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: No, we were a little before my time.

909
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: Well, they were for joggers and runners.

910
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it twenty eleven and who do I forgot

911
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: about that?

912
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? That is what Hooters waitresses.

913
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: Orange shorts with remember bronze panny house.

914
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: There Yeah, and then chunky white socks.

915
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a very back high tops.

916
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: It was bizarre.

917
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: Interesting.

918
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 3: Look somebody put that together and not a woman. Do

919
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: you remember there was a there was a Hooters airline

920
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: what yeah, wow.

921
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: That kind of rings a bell. Yeah. That was very

922
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: short lived, I imagine.

923
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: I believe, so it was pretty short lived.

924
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: Interesting, I guess. Yeah, so you would get asked like

925
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: what kind of drink and what style of chicken wing

926
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: do you want to get?

927
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 3: They did serve chicken wings on those of course, but

928
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: can you imagine being on an airplane being forced to

929
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 3: smell chicken wings the whole time if you didn't like it.

930
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: Uh, that's like every flight I ever take. It's true,

931
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: there's somebody with some stinky food.

932
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: You know. If I sit next to somebody on the

933
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: plane and I'm going to eat, I ask them if

934
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 3: it's okay if I eat.

935
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: Like if you bring food on yep. I don't bring

936
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: food onto.

937
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 2: A flight sometimes, dude, you just have to. Yeah, it's

938
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: a long flight.

939
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 3: And sure, I'm not going to run out of turkey

940
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,959
Speaker 3: wraps like in the first half a second.

941
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: So you just pull out your what my kung pow

942
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: out of your pocket you had just in case they're

943
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 1: out of turkey wraps?

944
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: Yea, not even in the containers, just in my pocket.

945
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: Oh goodness. So I thought this part was sort of

946
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: amusing how orderly he always was with his art, and

947
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: he tried to get into chaos a bit in this

948
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: one work contrast parentheses Order and chaos parentheses, wherein he

949
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: went and dug up a bunch of trash and said

950
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: I will draw chaos, and it ended up being if

951
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: you go and look at it. There's like a broken bottle,

952
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: broken eggshell, an open sardine tin and broken clay pipe

953
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: and some other refuse drawn to like perfect or I

954
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: guess woodcutter lithographed with perfect, beautiful precision.

955
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: Right was chaos his interpretation of it.

956
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: He just couldn't do it.

957
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 3: He was very much preoccupied with Kassi. He has a

958
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: very famous quote, probably his most famous quat quote, we

959
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 3: adore chaos because we'd love to produce order. And he's like,

960
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: by we, I mean me, Yeah.

961
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: Sure, sounded very much like an eye statement.

962
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 3: But he was very much into geometry and precision and

963
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 3: clean lines and all that.

964
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also as his career would progress, this this

965
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: these repeating patterns on a finite space. If you've seen

966
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: his circle limit series, that's where you'll find the fish

967
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: or these demons. And they start out with like one

968
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: in the center, and then there's a pattern all around,

969
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: and as it gets closer and close to the edge,

970
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: they get smaller and smaller and smaller, and you can

971
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: just sort of imagine that there is no end to

972
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: these shapes.

973
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 3: That they're just going infinitely around the sphere. Yeah, perfectly,

974
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 3: but again you have to stop and remind yourself this

975
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 3: is a two dimensional image I'm looking at right, and

976
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: then secondly.

977
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: This is cut out of wood.

978
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, he apparently made a three dimensional wood carving

979
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: of his circle limits series later on in life. And

980
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: I'll bet that's spectacular to see too. He made it,

981
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: what a three dimensional wood carving of it, basically proving

982
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: that his two dimensional drawing was accurate. Yeah, because he

983
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: made it in the three dimensions, that's awesome.

984
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just showing off towards the end there.

985
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: I like reptiles that's going aside from his early countryside

986
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: work that is far superior. The tessellation of the lizards

987
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: and reptiles is really neat. That's the one that has

988
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: the lizards being like crawling off of the page as

989
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: a drawn image, circling around, walking over some books, and

990
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: then crawling back over onto the page as a drawn image. Yeah,

991
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: very neat.

992
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 3: It's a lot like the hands drawing or drawing hands

993
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: one kind of where the hands are drawing themselves or

994
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 3: one another, but they're also three dimensional two and that

995
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: actually kind of jobs with another quote he had then,

996
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: I think really sums that style of art up. He said,

997
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 3: the flat shape irritates me. I feel as if I

998
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 3: were shouting to my figures, you are too fictitious for me.

999
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: You just lie there, static and frozen together. Do something.

1000
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 3: Come out of there and show me what you are

1001
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 3: capable of. And he would shout it just like that.

1002
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: And then Jetta would back out of the room slowly. Okay, dear,

1003
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: here's your t Yeah. And that sort of brings us too.

1004
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: With the reptiles. We need to talk a little bit

1005
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: about illusion because it started sort of early on. He

1006
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: was preoccupied with illusion, whether it was like these lizards

1007
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: coming off the page or still Life in Street, which

1008
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: is a tabletop that blends into a street scene.

1009
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: That's a neat one.

1010
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really cool. I like that one too, or relativity,

1011
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: which I don't know. I mean, is there a most

1012
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 1: famous maybe hands?

1013
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 3: It's between hands self portrait with sphere and relativity.

1014
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Relativity is the one with the staircases.

1015
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, people going up and downstairs that don't go anywhere,

1016
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: but they go everywhere and they circle back on each

1017
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 3: other and it's just an impossible staircase actually called Penrose Stairs.

1018
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: Oh really.

1019
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1020
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: After the famous father and son mathemagician.

1021
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: Team and speaking of the Penrose as they did.

1022
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: I'd just say, mathemagician, I just invented something I.

1023
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,959
Speaker 3: Did that's amazing, completely by accident the Penroses. That would

1024
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: be great, mathemagician.

1025
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet that's something four right.

1026
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: But the Penroses apparently wrote they saw some of Esher's work,

1027
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: wrote a paper explaining his work about impossible things like

1028
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 3: impossible stairs, which came to be called Penrose stairs. And

1029
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: Esher was either mailed a copy of this or somebody

1030
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: pointed out to him. So he created something called house

1031
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 3: of stairs or upstairs downstairs, one of the two, and

1032
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 3: sent one of the original prints to the Penroses. So,

1033
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 3: in a way, their correspondence and inspiration for one another

1034
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 3: was like a set of impossible stairs in real life.

1035
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: That interesting.

1036
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is you know, we were talking earlier

1037
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: about how his works somehow felt unsettling, and you know

1038
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 1: the subject matter as well. When you think about these

1039
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: the subjects walking in relativity, clearly never getting anywhere, walking

1040
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: downstairs sideways, all of a sudden, I'm walking back into

1041
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: the same staircase I was just on. Like you imagine,

1042
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: if these things were to come alive, they would be frustrated,

1043
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: angry people.

1044
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: Right.

1045
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 3: And as a matter of fact, one of the one

1046
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 3: that you're just talking about upstairs downstairs, they that was

1047
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: supposedly based on some a staircase in his school. Oh really,

1048
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 3: which suddenly says quite a bit about his psychology, don't

1049
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 3: you think?

1050
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: Well? How so?

1051
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: Well?

1052
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 3: I mean, like, these students aren't going anywhere, they're not

1053
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 3: even human. There's centipedes with human faces, gotcha, gotcha.

1054
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: And they're kind of trapped in this well.

1055
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 3: You could definitely call like a a purposeless existence in

1056
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 3: this building. It's kind of a dark building.

1057
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: Interesting. So he does finally achieve really great fame later

1058
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: in his life. Like you said, he was holding exhibitions

1059
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: in the Netherlands and a little bit in Europe, but

1060
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: he did one in Belgium in nineteen fifty. That led

1061
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: to an article in The Studio, which was an art magazine,

1062
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: and that captured the attention of a journalist who wrote

1063
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: about him in Time and Life magazines, which definitely propped

1064
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: him up a little bit.

1065
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: Yo.

1066
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Then that led to a larger exhibition at the

1067
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: International Mathematical Congress in fifty four. Flash forward to sixty six,

1068
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: he was featured in Mathematical Games Column and Scientific American

1069
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: by Martin Gardner mathemagician, I guarantee you that's a thing.

1070
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: And that increased his And this was sixty six, so

1071
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: it was kind of perfect timing with the hippies and

1072
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: the drugs and the counterculture. And I guess who was

1073
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: at Graham.

1074
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: Nash Graham Nash Mick Jagger sent him a fan ladder

1075
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 3: and made the mistake of calling him by his first name.

1076
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: Oh really, Jessher did not appreciate Stanley Kubrick tried to

1077
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 3: recruit him to make two thousand and one in Space Odyssey,

1078
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 3: a fourth dimensional film.

1079
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: Huh.

1080
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1081
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 3: There's this interesting article called the Impossible World of mc

1082
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 3: Escher that Stephen Poole wrote in The Guardian that has

1083
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: a lot of that stuff in it. But he was

1084
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 3: kind of like, no, I'm good over here with my

1085
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 3: mathematician friends.

1086
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: Well, once he was featured in Scientific American, that led

1087
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: to the big daddy of them all. He got featured

1088
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 1: in Rolling Stone, and then after that it was all over.

1089
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 2: He was huge, Yeah, dorm room huge.

1090
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: Four hundred and forty eight works. Then this doesn't count

1091
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: all the sketches and drafts. These are like the actual

1092
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: final works, right, And like we said earlier, he dies

1093
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two of cancer the age of seventy three.

1094
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: And I tried to find more about his family, but

1095
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: there's not a lot out there, like his sons and

1096
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: whether or not his I mean, I guess his grandkids

1097
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: would be contemporaries of ours.

1098
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 3: Yep, I don't know, Like he was born in eighteen

1099
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: ninety nine, Well, great grandkids maybe.

1100
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, I guess if his kids were born in

1101
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, Yeah, contemporaries of our parents maybe.

1102
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 2: Sure. The old stirs Yeah boomers.

1103
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: Hey, boomer, Boomer. Okay, boom hey boomer. So get that right.

1104
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 3: In that Journey to Infinity movie, apparently all three of

1105
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 3: his children appear in it.

1106
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: Oh really, if you want to know more about them,

1107
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: go watch that.

1108
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: I saw one picture of him where he looked a

1109
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: lot like our old colleague John Fuller when John had

1110
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: a beard.

1111
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah he did, didn't It looked a little bit

1112
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 3: like him. Yeah, it's not expecting that, nop. So there's

1113
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: mc es sure, that's right. Speaking of not expecting that,

1114
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: Babe on Corvette Sure and Hooters air Line made appearances

1115
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 3: in the mcs. You're I just want to point out

1116
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,479
Speaker 3: if you want to know more about any of those things,

1117
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,959
Speaker 3: go on to the internet and start searching. And since

1118
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 3: I said that, it's time for listener mail.

1119
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I've been listening to your show since twenty eleven.

1120
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: I even seeing you. I've even seen you on your

1121
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: first amazing show in Chicago and had to wait a

1122
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: whole year to hear that on the podcast. Oh yeah,

1123
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: that's how it works.

1124
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: Sure, Sorry, it's not even guaranteed that it's going to

1125
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 3: be the show you saw.

1126
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1127
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: A lot of podcasts put out just tons and tons

1128
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: of live shows. We don't do that. No, Yeah, and

1129
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: I honestly think the live shows are a little better

1130
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: in person. I don't think they make as a fan

1131
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: of other podcasts, I don't think they make for the

1132
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: best just regular content.

1133
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 2: I think most people think.

1134
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: That, but we just so. That's why we only put

1135
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: out the one, right, So back to the letter, This

1136
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: show is so great I would even save high interest

1137
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: episodes for my son to listen to over the years. Nice,

1138
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: you were one of the few people that can keep

1139
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: his attention. I never thought I would write, but as

1140
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: a science teacher, you said something recently that's so true.

1141
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: Some of the best science websites are children's science websites.

1142
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: Or if a definition is too difficult, I always tell

1143
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: people to look up a child's definition for that word.

1144
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: Really good tip, guys. Thanks for sharing that. Thanks for

1145
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: all your work, and now I will have to figure

1146
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: out what to do now that I am finally caught up.

1147
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: Keep up the great work. And that is from Jenny

1148
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: with an Eye.

1149
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: Thanks Jenny with an Eye.

1150
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 3: Hopefully you dot the I with the heart, maybe with

1151
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 3: a little reflection on the side of the heart. You

1152
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,879
Speaker 3: remember that one two curve lines top with topped and

1153
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 3: I guess bottomed with.

1154
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 2: A straight line.

1155
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: I think I know what you're talking about, Caro.

1156
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: I'll show you.

1157
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: Oh boy, since we just dis oh oh sure that yeah, yeah.

1158
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 3: It almost looks like a bent Roman numeral to inside

1159
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: the heart. That's the reflection of light. That's where the

1160
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: light's coming from.

1161
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

1162
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 2: Thanks to Escher reference.

1163
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: I'll treasure that.

1164
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: You're welcome check. I wasn't going to give it to you,

1165
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: but now.

1166
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: I have to just sign it first.

1167
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 3: If you want to get in touch with us, you

1168
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 3: can go on to stuff you should know dot com

1169
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 3: and look for our social links there. And you can

1170
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: also send us an email like Jenny with and I did.

1171
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 3: You can send it to.

1172
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 2: Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1173
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: You Know Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1174
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1175
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.