WEBVTT - Immigration Issues & A Reality Show for Citizenship 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.319 President Trump has been complaining about the legal protections given 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:18.120 to alleged Venezuelan gang members to prevent their quick deportations. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.400 We're getting them out, and a judge can't say no, 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.119 you have to have a trial. That's the trial is 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.040 going to take two years, and we're going to have 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.880 a very We're going to have a very dangerous country 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:32.959 if we're not allowed to do what we're entitled to do. 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:33.560 Well. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.040 On Friday, the administration lost its bid at the Supreme 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.320 Court to quickly deport about one hundred and seventy six 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.800 alleged Venezuelan gang members to a salvador In prison using 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.400 the seventeen ninety eight Alien Enemies Act. But it got 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.320 to win at the Supreme Court today, when the Justice 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.279 has allowed the administration to end legal protections for three 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.960 hundred and fifty thousand Venezuelans, stripping them of the right 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.600 to temporarily live and work in the US and opening 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.039 many of them to immediate deportations. The Justices lifted a 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.920 federal court order that had said the Venezuelans could keep 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.880 their temporary protected status while a legal fight continues. Joining 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.360 me is immigration law expert Leon Fresco, a partnered Holland 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.040 and Knight. Leon first explained, and I know you've explained 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.360 this many times before, but first explain what temporary protected 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:27.160 status is. 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.880 Well. Temporary protected status in general is permitted by a 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.800 statute that is enacted by Congress. And what that statue 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.600 does is it allows the president, whoever the president is 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.160 at any given time, to create a class of people that, 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:49.680 because of either a natural disaster or some political turmoil 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:54.880 or some environmental problem something that it would be considered 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.480 very dangerous to them to deport them back to their country. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.120 And so actually, at the end of the Trump presidency 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.400 in twenty twenty, Trump had declared something similar called deferred 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.280 enforced departure for Venezuelans. But what Biden did was he 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.320 changed that to temporary protective status, and he said that 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.359 about three hundred and fifty thousand Venezuelans could stay in 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.480 the country using this temporary protected status under the theory 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.720 that deporting them back to Venezuela would be deporting them 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.440 back to a place where the government was very oppressive, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.200 and most of these people would probably qualify for asylum anyway, 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.600 and so rather than clog the courts with those asylum cases, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.760 it's just simpler to have temporary protective status allow them 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.880 to stay legally and work legally while they're in the 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.799 United States. Well, what the Trump administration did when it 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.440 came back in twenty twenty five now is it said 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.720 we're going to cancel those three hundred and fifty thousand 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:01.120 Venezuelans temporary protective status. But what's interesting about that is 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.799 it didn't just say it's not going to renew it. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.959 It actually said, if you have it right this minute, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.960 we're canceling it, which people were shocked because they had 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.680 at least thought they had a reliance interest until the 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.960 time that the temporary protected status would expire, which for 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.760 some people would have been in June and some people 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.440 would have been in October. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.639 I mean, it sounds like temporary protected status is something 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.639 within the administration's bailliwick. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.000 Correct, So the administration the president has the authority to 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.520 extend TPS in eighteen months increments under Congress, or not 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.800 to extend it. But what's interesting is in the prior 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.400 Trump administration, there had been temporary protected status given to 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:52.520 people from Central America, and when the Trump administration tried 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:58.320 to end it, the lower courts actually gave injunctions, and 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.720 those individuals succeeded for four years during the Trump presidency 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.560 to not have their temporary protective status rescinded because they 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.560 had gotten rulings that there were equal protection violations in 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.960 the way that the temporary protective status had been rescinded, 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.080 because the idea was that Trump was doing this for 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.680 some sort of animus or discriminatory reason and not for 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.840 real judgments on whether those countries had actually changed or not. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.120 And so interestingly enough, because that strategy worked in the 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.159 first Trump administration to sort of run out the clock, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.159 then this new attempt in this second administration to do 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.640 the same thing to stop temporary protective status. The individuals 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.880 sued again, saying the same arguments, and they succeeded again 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.800 in getting an injunction in the lower court. But this 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.600 time the Supreme Court today stayed the injunction. So what 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.640 they said was the injunction does not apply to just 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.680 the one issue, so the issue of renewal, meaning that 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.920 now there's not going to be an injunction like there 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.839 was in the first Trumpet administration. That keeps people on 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.960 temporary protected status after it expires. Now, they do say 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.320 that this order doesn't apply to the issues of whether 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.920 you could be ejected from the status earlier, whether your 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.359 work authorization could be taken away early. But what the 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.960 ruling today says is when your status expires, the Supreme 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.159 Court has no order in place giving you your status back, 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.720 and so those are going to have to be litigated 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.440 in the lower court. But in the meantime, there is 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:49.000 no injunction in place preventing people's temporary protected status from 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.039 expiring on the day it was supposed to expire in 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:52.760 the first place. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:57.000 So, just to be clear, the order today only applies 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:02.000 to renewal of temporary prient checked IT status. In other words, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.919 it allows the administration not to renew TPS status. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:11.159 So the order from today only pertains to once the 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.240 normal day it was going to expire comes, then it 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.280 is allowed to expire. There is now no injunction as 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.960 of today requiring it to be renewed, and so that's 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.640 what's been changed is there was an injunction saying you 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.920 just can't end this period until the court gets back 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.400 to you, and now that's not true. It can be ended, 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.680 but it has to be ended as of the date 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.080 that it was supposed to end originally, rather than an 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.080 earlier expedited date given by President Trump. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.720 So how big a victory is this for the Trump administration? 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.320 Obviously, what they're trying to do is flood the zone 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.320 and get as many people to be subject to removal 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.480 early as possible. So from that standpoint, if your concern is, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.040 I want as many people subject to removal as soon 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.520 as possible, And it is a very big victory for 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.680 the Trump administration to say that they don't have to 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:10.280 renew the temporary protected status because that is a significant 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.280 change from the first Trump administration. In the first Trump administration, 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.400 the clock ran out from their attempt to end temporary 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.280 protected status for people, and so people were able to 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.520 maintain their temporary protected status during the four entire years 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.560 of the Trump administration, plus obviously the Biden administration. And 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.440 so now the Trump administration in year one gets a 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.480 favorable ruling from the Supreme Court that says that that's 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:39.960 not going to happen this time around. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.720 What happens now because the Venezuelans that have temporary protected 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.080 status when it ends, can they be deported or will 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:50.760 they apply for asylum. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.640 So what will happen is anybody who is subject to 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.280 deportation is most likely going to apply for asylum. They 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.960 don't have to apply for asylum, but most likely they 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.240 are going to apply for asylum. And from Venezuela, you 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:11.280 already have a prime of facia eligibility for asylum in 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.120 the sense that you have an oppressive government that commits 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.040 acts of oppression against political enemies. So all of those 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:19.760 cases are going to have to be heard on an 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:25.400 individual basis, unless the Trump administration can succeed in this 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.800 other case that it's working on saying that Venezuelans or 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.920 some class of them, can be deported en mass because 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.000 they're alien enemies of the United States. But other than that, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.199 every Venezuelan is probably going to have to go through 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.240 asylum proceedings, which, again, even if it's just these three 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.520 hundred and fifty thousand, will be two three years of 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.000 court time just for this one group of people. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:53.480 How has temporary projected status worked in the past, Do 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.960 people actually go back to their home countries? 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.800 Well, this is problematic because this is where the Trump 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:06.960 administration has its highest level of currency. Is there's actually 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.040 almost never been an instance other than very small, very 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.080 targeted instances of less than one hundred people, where a 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.480 group of people has been given temporary protective status and 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.640 it's actually been revoked. We have people in America who've 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:27.360 had temporary protective status since nineteen ninety six and their 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.120 status just keeps getting renewed every eighteen months. And so 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.439 what the Trump administration has said is at some point 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.000 this has to end because it makes a mockery of 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.079 the statute temporary protected status. But what happens is once 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.040 you make someone legal and you give them a work permit, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.560 and you give them legal status and they have kids 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.000 in the United States, every moment that they're here is 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:56.040 an extended moment of currency building. And you start getting 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.720 people like these people who've been here since nineteen ninety 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.120 six who are now going to to lose their temporary 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.520 protective status, who will say, hey, I've been here for 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.160 over thirty years and now you're trying to deport me 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.120 just now. And this becomes a big problem for both sides. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.160 And so that's why it's understandable that people who've been 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.160 here less time, but for some of the temporary protective 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.480 status people who've been here thirty years. Yes, they probably 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.000 shouldn't have had temporary protective status for thirty years, but 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.440 the truth is they've had it now, and so the 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.280 question is what are you going to do with those people. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.679 They're also moving to revoke temporary protected status for Haitians, Cubans, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:36.479 and Nicaragua. 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:41.240 Everybody, yes, other than South Sudan, which they gave a 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:46.120 sort of neutral six month extension. Everyone else. They're moving 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.600 so far to say that the conditions have improved in 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.360 all of these countries, no matter how bad others might 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.880 argue theoretically that they are. The Trump administration has said, no, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.439 the conditions are good enough to warrant deportations to these places, 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.360 and so yes, the temporary protective statuses are being revoked 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.439 from everybody else who has them, and so the idea 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.520 is those individuals will be in undocumented status. And then 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.240 the question becomes, well, what happens to the next? What 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.959 happens to the next is either they leave on their 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.920 own or somebody comes and places them in deportation proceedings. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.679 And if that happens, then what happens. Does these people 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.480 apply for asylum or do they do something else? 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.959 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, the Trump 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.480 Administration's Friday defeat at the Supreme Court, and are they 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.160 really talking about a reality show for undocumented immigrants you're 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:45.600 listening to Bloomberg. The Trump administration had a victory today 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.079 from the Supreme Court, but a defeat on Friday by 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.920 a vote of seven to two. The court blocked the 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.040 administration from deporting about one hundred and seventy six Venezuelans 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.320 to a Salvadorian prison. Fault in the government for giving 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:03.160 the men in adequate notice and failing to explain how 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.080 they could contest deportation. I've been talking to immigration law 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.439 expert le On Fresco, a partner at Hollanden Knight. Leon 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.959 tell us why the Supreme Court said the Trump administration 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.000 couldn't deport this group of alleged Venezuelan gang members. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.920 Well, let's start with the legal issue at play. There's 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.360 a law, the Alien Enemies Act from the seventeen hundreds, 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.000 which says that if you are put into this group 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.440 of people who are alien enemies by the president, you 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.960 can be removed without any due process. That's what the 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.520 statute says. And the question is what does that really mean, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.400 because it gives a step of determining whether you are 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.199 subject to the statue. You know, So the Trump administration says, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.640 we want to be able to deport these Venezuelan gang 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.960 members from Trend, de Aragua. We want to be able 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.560 to do that without having to have individual trials for 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.200 every one of them. But that skips the step of saying, well, 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.200 what if I'm not one of these people, either because 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.199 I'm Venezuelan but I'm not in the gang, or I'm 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.960 not even Venezuelan in the first place and you just 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.199 got the wrong person, or I'm a US citizen, Where 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.720 do I get to actually make this claim? And so 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.480 first the Supreme Court said, well, you will make this 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.440 claim in a habeas case. That was the first Supreme 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.160 Court decision that came out a month ago that said 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.760 you have to file a habeas corpus and the government 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.439 has to give you notice and an opportunity to do that. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.040 And then there's a second question, which the courts have 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.520 gone in two different directions on, which is can you 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.520 even use the Alien Enemies Act for this type of situation? 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:45.079 Because does this Venezuelan gang count as an invading force 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.360 such that you can actually use the Alien Enemies Act 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.480 to deport people, or is this just immigration, it's not 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.520 an invading force coming from Venezuela with the approval of 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.320 the Venezuelan government to invade the United States. Because that's 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.160 the threshold that you have to meet. And so the 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.360 Supreme Court said, look, you got to give people notice 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.640 to make these arguments. The government came back into lower 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.840 courts and there were arguments about, well, how long does 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.559 the government have to let you file your habeas? Is 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.640 it twenty four hours, is it four hours? Is it 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.280 forty eight hours? And what the Supreme Court basically said, finally, 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:29.200 because it was I think concerned about a situation where 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.440 people were not going to be given enough notice to 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.680 file habeas corpus actions in these cases. It said, look, 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:40.560 we're saying all of these Venezuelan Alien Enemies Act cases 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.920 until they can get up to this court and we 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.080 can decide these two issues. The Alien enemies is it 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.960 even applicable here? And in specific cases are people subject 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.040 to it even if it is applicable, And the issue 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.480 of what is a proper amount of notice to give 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.840 in a particular case. So the Court said In the meantime, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.600 we're just putting this injunction in and nobody's going to 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.640 be able to be deported under this Alien Enemies Act 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.240 until we can find so. It tould the lower courts 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.760 get to it, move, move, move quickly, get us these cases, 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.640 and then we will finally decide these larger issues. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.360 And they mentioned a couple of times that the stakes 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:25.480 were high, basically because of the case of Kilmar Abrigo Garcia, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.840 who the government says it can't return. I don't know 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.240 where that case is at this point. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.600 Well, correct, the problem is there. The irreparable harm argument 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.280 really sort of became nuclear, because if the government is 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.840 going to say that once it deports somebody, it's not 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.600 going to bring them back, then you raise the stakes 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.560 to a level that makes it impossible to say there's 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.000 not going to be a reparable arm. And so this 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.800 might be a situation where again the litigating posture in 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.800 one case came back to the government's credit here, whereas 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.320 that had just done the one time return, then it 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.640 might have won this case. And so these things are 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.840 always operating in a back and forth discussion. Nothing ever 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.160 happens in a vacuum. And so now the government has 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.040 to understand that if it's going to make the arguments 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.960 I want to deport someone it's never going to bring 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.960 them back, then that is irreparable arm by its nature. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.800 Because you can bring someone back, then maybe you can 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.560 argue there's no irreparable arm. But if you're saying you're 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.280 never going to bring someone back, then that is by 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.520 the definition irreparable arm. We are in that situation now 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.360 where all of these cases have been stated, and with 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.560 regards to Brego Garcia, what you have is a situation 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.400 where the district judge in Maryland is sort of getting 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.800 back into this case now, and even though they're trying 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.960 to theoretically work something out, you have administration officials still 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.680 saying to the Congress that Abrego Garcia is never coming back. 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.800 And so now the district judge in Maryland is really 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.399 starting to lose her patients, and she's trying to figure 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:09.359 out again back into this adjudicating posture, who ordered what, when, where, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.920 and why, to try to decide that there's more that 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.159 this judge can order, either with regard to content or 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.760 with regard to relief, that can get Abrego Garcia back 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:21.960 into the United States. 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.680 So let's move now to Thursday of last week, where 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:31.320 the birthright citizenship question was before the Supreme Court. I mean, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.760 was most of it about birthright citizenship or about nationwide injunctions? 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.280 Right? Very little of the case had to do with 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.679 birthright citizenship. There were some remarks by certain of the 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.320 justices where the justices said, you know, let's assume that 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.359 your birthright citizenship argument is wrong, what do we do 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.960 in terms of the injunction here? And so there was 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.959 a lot of that. There was not a lot of 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.680 discussion in regard to anybody trying to argue too much 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.600 that the birthright Citizenship Executive Order was legal, And I 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.480 don't think the Court is ever going to be inclined 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.959 to rule in that direction. But the question is what 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:16.600 is the remedy for this and here? Really is there 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.200 a way that there's maybe four or five justices that 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.159 would carve out some new standard that has to be 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.960 applied before a nationwide injunction could be issued, or are 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.199 they just going to do away with them period and 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.119 make people have to certify a class and get class 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.439 action relief, which may be available in some types of 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.679 cases and may not be available in other types of cases. So, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.080 for instance, in the alien enemies that case where those 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.240 are not have to be filed in habeass you actually 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.800 have in this case that just got decided now about pausing, 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.080 you had a LEDO and Thomas saying you can't get 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.760 class action relief in a hate case. And so that's 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.440 the kind of example of perhaps it wouldn't be available, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.320 and so you would need a nationwide injunction if you're 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.359 going to do this, And so there's a lot of 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.520 those scenarios the Court was trying to grapple with, where 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.959 is there an adequate substitute for a nationwide injunction in 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.640 cases where it's actually needed, or would you be creating 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.680 some pretty crazy outcomes where for instance, as an example, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.880 just in the birthright citizenship context, if you had two 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.880 different circuits that ruled two different ways on birthright citizenship 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.760 and if the Supreme Court denied third, just to take 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.320 that example, then what would happen is if you apply 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.439 for a passport in California, you might get it, and 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.760 if you applied for a passport in Texas you might 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.600 not get it. And that's absurd that there is literally 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:57.760 two different rules for American citizenship depending on which passport 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.639 office you apply in, and so you would think that 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.640 this would not be the exact kind of case where 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.840 you'd want to see this issue up. But I don't 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.000 know what they're going to end up with in this context. 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.240 Jess as Elena Kagan, who was a FORMERUS Listener General 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.080 I believe, said something like I wouldn't have brought this 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:16.400 case if I were you. 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:22.320 Yeah, it definitely seems as the weirdest case ever to 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.160 bring a nationwide injunction case. You would think you would 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.560 want to bring it with regard to something like can 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.600 you fire people in the parking meter service or something? 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.840 You know some case of states like that way or Okay, 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.800 so maybe the parking meter people in one place would 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.040 be fired in another place. They couldn't be that kind 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.440 of thing. But to do it here in a case 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.200 that clearly there should be one federal standard of who 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.080 is a US citizen and who isn't and where. If 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.600 you don't have one standard, all that will happen is 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.960 that people will move to the location where they can 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.200 get citizenship just seems very strange to use that as 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.840 the case that people want to have this issue of 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.879 nationwide injunction. But at least, it clarifies the issues for 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.520 the court to really think of the stakes here of 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.360 having an interesting background of saying okay in this exact 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:22.280 nationwide injunction case involving birthright citizenship, if we banned nationwide injunctions, 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:26.600 how would we move forward in this world? And so 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.160 at least it gives an interesting thought process. It really 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.560 is the opposite of a straw man. This is sort 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.520 of the Steelman thing where if you can write an 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:39.480 argument in this case for ending nationwide injunctions, then you 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.720 definitely have a strong standard that would apply in pretty 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:43.960 much any other context. 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.680 Now, let's turn to a reality show where immigrants would 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.199 compete for US citizenship. I say that with a question 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.640 mark because it sounds over the top, But the Department 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.280 of Homeland Security is reportedly con considering being part of 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:06.359 a show where immigrants would compete in various contests and 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.320 the winner would be awarded citizenship. The show is being 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:15.800 pitched by Rob Warsoff, who produced the Duck Dynasty reality show. 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:17.000 Is this doable? 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.240 Leon Well? What has been admitted to so far is 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.080 that there have been meetings with officials at the Department 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.919 of Justice about this, and what has also been I 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.719 think seems to be not refuted by anyone, is that 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:34.000 Secretary Nome has not met with the individuals trying to 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.760 do this show. But what we know is that there 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:40.199 is a desire to have a show where it's a 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:45.280 reality show type competition where there's multiple people trying to 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:50.159 get US citizenship and only one of them gets it 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.760 at the end of the show. So there's a whittling 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.280 down each episode as to a person who gets eliminated, 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.639 and then only one person or perhaps one family gets 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:05.280 the citizenship. And so interestingly, I've been asked by various 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.240 reporters if I can think of a way where this 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.720 could actually work under the law, and I haven't actually responded, 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.440 but I'll do it here June, since we have since 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.359 we have our podcast. And so as much as I 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:18.880 wouldn't want this to be a show, you know, there's 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.400 another immigration show that has huge rating called Ninety Day Fiance. 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.600 I don't know if you've seen that one. I hadn't. 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.119 I didn't know it was an immigration show though, okay, it's. 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.200 An immigration show. Yeah, Because what happens is there's a 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.600 visa called a cave visa. Here's how this works. If 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:36.440 a US citizen is abroad. Let's say you go abroad 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:40.080 because you're at your university and you take a semester 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:43.719 abroad in France or something. Or let's say you're working 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.439 at a project in Germany or Australia or wherever. You 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.120 meet someone that you love. You're now in a very 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:55.720 difficult situation because if you bring the person into America 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.240 on a visitor visa and you get married to them, 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:02.080 theoretically that person is committing immigration fraud because you're not 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.919 supposed to be coming in on a visitor visa with 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.280 an intent to get married. And if you do the 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.600 long marriage process, how broad, then you might be separated 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.600 from your spouse for a year or two, which is 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.239