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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners. You know that I often

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Speaker 1: like to share the conversations I have with interesting folks

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Speaker 1: on other podcasts, and today I've got one that I

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Speaker 1: think you'll really enjoy because I had the pleasure of

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Speaker 1: taking part in a live recording of a new podcast

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Speaker 1: called IMO, hosted by former First Lady of the United

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Speaker 1: States Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson, and for

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Speaker 1: their first live show ever at south By Southwest, the

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Speaker 1: siblings had Yours truly on as a guest to discuss

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Speaker 1: a very tough happiness question, how can we fight hopelessness

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Speaker 1: and scary times. I hope you enjoy our conversation and

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Speaker 1: be sure to check out IMO wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hey, south By Southwest, Wow, Boston.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Craig Robinson, my big brother. Yeah, he's so nice.

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Speaker 4: You all are nice. How about my sister Michelle Obama?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm not used to being up here

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Speaker 2: with somebody. Usually when i'm speaking, I'm speaking on my own.

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Speaker 2: But I got company.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: When was the last time we were on a big

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Speaker 2: stage together?

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Speaker 5: You remember It's been a while. Yeah, remind me, what

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Speaker 5: do you think I am thinking.

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Speaker 2: About the two thousand and eight convention and that was

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Speaker 2: a big moment for me because that was Barack's first campaign.

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Speaker 2: In that campaign, people didn't know me, so I got

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Speaker 2: accused in the press of being angry and combative.

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Speaker 3: Because of the way I spoke.

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Speaker 2: So I found that I had to use this speech

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Speaker 2: to reintroduce myself to the country. So this was a

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Speaker 2: big speech, major speech at the DNC, and my big

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Speaker 2: brother introduced me and we were.

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Speaker 5: On stoge an honor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah there, it was quite an honor.

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Speaker 2: But in his introduction, when you're on stage and you're

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Speaker 2: doing a big speech, you have teleprompters. So you have

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Speaker 2: prompter in the front, have prompter on the left, prompter

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Speaker 2: on the right. Because you're reading from the prompter. Because

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Speaker 2: it's timed, you got to hit it right. It's national,

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Speaker 2: it's live.

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Speaker 5: Let me cut in here. She had to read from

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Speaker 5: a prompter.

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Speaker 2: I memorized, Oh, well, mine, here we go, favorite child.

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Speaker 3: He memorized everything.

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Speaker 5: Memory.

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Speaker 2: Well, my speech was a little longer, a little more impactful,

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Speaker 2: so I needed the teleprompter, right. So he does this

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Speaker 2: beautiful introduction of me. It's all action packed, and you

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Speaker 2: know he says, and ladies and gentlemen, the next first

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Speaker 2: Lady of the United States, Michelle Obama and I come

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Speaker 2: on stage and they're cheering, you know, and we do

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Speaker 2: this greet in front of the prompter where I think

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Speaker 2: that my big brother is gonna lean down and give

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Speaker 2: me a hug and say, you got this, girl.

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Speaker 3: I love you.

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you. So I go out there

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Speaker 2: and we're on national TV. And do you remember what

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Speaker 2: you said to me.

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Speaker 5: I do.

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Speaker 2: I'm leaning down to my ear and you said, left

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Speaker 2: prompter out.

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Speaker 4: And he walked off. I was looking out for left

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Speaker 4: prompter out. I was looking out for you. I knew

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Speaker 4: you hadn't memorized it, so I didn't want you to

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Speaker 4: be surprised, but you know, I mean, and that wasn't working.

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Speaker 5: So now I'm thinking, what was he talking about?

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Speaker 2: So I'm wa eving, trying to play it off, and

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Speaker 2: I'm walking up to the stand and what he meant

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Speaker 2: was the left prompter was out, and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: good looking out. But anyway, that was my brother looking out.

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Speaker 2: But that was the last time we were on stage.

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Speaker 5: That was the last time. And look at us.

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Speaker 4: Now we are here, our new podcast, I amo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what we've been doing. We're gonna chat a

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Speaker 2: little bit so you guys will get a sense of

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Speaker 2: our dynamic and sort of some of the lessons we

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Speaker 2: learned growing up. And some of this podcast was started

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Speaker 2: because you know, this last year was pretty I won't

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Speaker 2: say completely rough, but we had some We lost our

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Speaker 2: mom this year for those of you who don't know

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Speaker 2: Marian Robinson. And as a result, yeah, yeah, my mom.

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Speaker 2: She she and our dad were some amazing people. And

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Speaker 2: I think as a result of that lost Craig and

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Speaker 2: I you know, it brought us even closer together.

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Speaker 3: We were already close.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know about you, but there's just something

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Speaker 2: about losing what was our last parent, and anytime in

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Speaker 2: your life when you lose a parent, it's tough.

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Speaker 3: You think you're going to be ready for it as.

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Speaker 2: An adult, but I think, you know, part of losing mom,

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Speaker 2: it kind of puts us in the position where we

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Speaker 2: are we're the wise ones in the family.

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Speaker 5: Hard to believe, I know.

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Speaker 2: I mean I talked to Malia and Sasha about this

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Speaker 2: all the time as they are becoming adults. I know,

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Speaker 2: Malie always says, well, when do you actually feel like

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Speaker 2: an adult, and I was like, never, not really ever

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Speaker 2: do you feel like you know what you're doing? So

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Speaker 2: I said, the fact that you're in your twenties and

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Speaker 2: you feel like you are clueless, it's like you're right

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Speaker 2: on schedule. Because I remind her that even now at

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Speaker 2: sixty one and how old are you.

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Speaker 5: Sixty three, Let's be very clear, he's my big brother.

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Speaker 4: Although it's all over people because she's so iconic, people

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Speaker 4: think I'm her little brother.

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Speaker 5: If you can believe that.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's because you're bold and you have younger kids.

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Speaker 5: That is true. I think that helps.

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Speaker 2: Because he's to set of older kids and he's got

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Speaker 2: a set of younger kids as well. So I called

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Speaker 2: him the head of the ODC, the Old Dad's Club.

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Speaker 3: He is president and CEO.

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Speaker 2: But even at this age, it's a little daunting to

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Speaker 2: think that now we kind of have to step up

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Speaker 2: in our family and be that wisdom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're always doing it at home with our families,

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Speaker 4: answering questions. So we're going to be doing that with

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Speaker 4: our listeners. So as more as we get going, you'll

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Speaker 4: see we'll have a listener questions and we'll have one

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Speaker 4: later today.

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Speaker 5: So stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you know, our goal is to share

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Speaker 2: some of what we learned. We know people are going

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Speaker 2: through some tough times, and I don't think Craig and

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Speaker 2: I are feeling any different than anyone out there. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with a lot of uncertainties. I for one,

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Speaker 2: feel for folks who are struggling and will continue to

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Speaker 2: struggle in these uncertainties.

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Speaker 3: I worry about folks being out of work, you know.

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Speaker 2: I worry about how we think about diversity and inclusion.

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Speaker 2: I think about how we treat one another and the

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Speaker 2: voices that we hear, and what that does, what models

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Speaker 2: that's setting for the next generation. Who do we want

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Speaker 2: to be as a country. All of that keeps me

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Speaker 2: up at night. And I know that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people are struggling with some of those things. But I

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Speaker 2: find in those moments that it is better not to

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Speaker 2: try to figure that stuff out alone. And for me

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Speaker 2: and Craig and our family, you know, we always try

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Speaker 2: to step outside of our loneliness and talk as a

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Speaker 2: family and as a community and to share those concerns.

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Speaker 2: And I hope that our listeners are pushed to do

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Speaker 2: some of the same things too. That you know we're

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Speaker 2: not going to figure this stuff out on our own,

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Speaker 2: and that we need each other and we need to

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Speaker 2: step out of our loneliness and start talking to each other.

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Speaker 2: So hopefully this podcast will spark some conversation, but more importantly,

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Speaker 2: I hope it leads people to seek out their own

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Speaker 2: communities of trust and conversation. So we're not sitting alone

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Speaker 2: in these feelings. So that's my hope. Oh, go ahead

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Speaker 2: and clap.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: See we're not used to a live audience yet, so no,

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Speaker 4: I absolutely agree with me. To her point, we talked

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Speaker 4: about not having all the opinions.

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Speaker 5: Or all the answers, or all the answers. We got

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Speaker 5: plenty of opinions, but not all the answers.

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Speaker 4: We're going to have a guest with us on most

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Speaker 4: of our episodes, but sometimes it'll just be the two

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Speaker 4: of us, ye, kind of chopping it up. But before

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Speaker 4: we bring out our special guest today, I thought i'd

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Speaker 4: pose a question to my sister. It's interesting now that

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Speaker 4: we're doing the podcast, we talk all the time, but

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Speaker 4: now we save our talking for when we see each other.

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Speaker 5: Now, don't say anything. Don't say anything, David, don't say anything.

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Speaker 4: But do you remember how mom and dad taught us

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Speaker 4: how to handle adversity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I talk about this in both of my books.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who don't know our story, our dad,

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Speaker 2: who Fraser Robinson, he developed MS in the prime of

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Speaker 2: his life.

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Speaker 3: You know, he didn't always have it. He grew up

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Speaker 3: as a boxer.

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Speaker 2: And athlete, a swimmer, and like in his early twenties,

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Speaker 2: he contracted MS and he couldn't walk without the assistance

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Speaker 2: of a caine and the disease progress. So we only

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Speaker 2: knew our father as someone with a disability, and I

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Speaker 2: think that growing up with a parent with a disability,

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Speaker 2: looking back on it, we were always kids that were

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Speaker 2: growing up with a real sense of vulnerability right before

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Speaker 2: us because our father was the sole breadwinner, our mom

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Speaker 2: stayed home. He was a city worker, so that salary

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Speaker 2: was important. I think we knew that. But to know

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Speaker 2: that the person that you lean on most is vulnerable,

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Speaker 2: I think it always made us clear about adversity. I

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Speaker 2: think we lived within adversity to a certain extent, and

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Speaker 2: it sort of made us both a little wary in

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Speaker 2: interesting ways. For a kid and Craig, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you remember little things that we didn't at the

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Speaker 2: time tie to our dad's disability. But Craig was always

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Speaker 2: like doing disaster preparedness stuff around the house. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I kid you not this little boy. And he was

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Speaker 2: about ten, and I was always his willing sidekick, running

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Speaker 2: behind him like what are we doing now? And he

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Speaker 2: came home one day and said, you know, how are

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Speaker 2: we going to get out if there's a fire? So

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Speaker 2: he made us all do you remember I do I

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Speaker 2: tell your little worries?

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Speaker 5: So I was. I was worried about it.

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Speaker 4: And you know, back in the seventies there were a

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Speaker 4: lot of house fires.

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Speaker 5: I don't know about you.

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Speaker 3: Guys were smoke detectors.

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Speaker 5: There weren't no sprinkler systems.

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Speaker 2: We're talking young people back in the Stone Age.

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Speaker 4: So I was always worried that we lived on the

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Speaker 4: second floor and our dad couldn't get around, so how

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Speaker 4: would we get out if there were fires? So I

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Speaker 4: coming home from school and having done a fire drill

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Speaker 4: at school, I set up a fire drill for us

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Speaker 4: at home.

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Speaker 5: But it wasn't just that.

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Speaker 2: He had to make sure that he could drag our

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Speaker 2: dad to safety.

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Speaker 4: So he made I made my dad get on the almost.

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Speaker 4: He had to be humiliated.

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Speaker 3: But he humored you.

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Speaker 4: He because I had him stand up, and I grabbed

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Speaker 4: him from behind and put my arms under his shoulders

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Speaker 4: and then just leaned him back and I dragged him

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Speaker 4: through every room of a house to make sure that

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Speaker 4: I could get him around.

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Speaker 5: And he let me do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, God bless yeah yeah. But that indicated this

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Speaker 2: little boy was worried about some stuff that probably a

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Speaker 2: normal ten year old wouldn't worry about. And that wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: You know, he would tie his left hand behind his back. Right, oh,

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Speaker 2: your right hand because he was right handed, because he

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Speaker 2: was worried that he would lose the use of his

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Speaker 2: right hand, so he needed to know how to do

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Speaker 2: everything with his left hand. There was one week that

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Speaker 2: you walked around blindfolded just in case you lost her,

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Speaker 2: I mean his eyesight. And I'm there like little me,

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Speaker 2: going no to your left, right, to your right?

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Speaker 5: No, wait, she was right there right there.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know why we're doing this,

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Speaker 2: but my brother says we're doing it, and our parents

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Speaker 2: would just humor us. But while we lived with probably

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Speaker 2: that underlying level of uncertainty, I think when you talk

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Speaker 2: about how we learned to deal with adversity. I think

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Speaker 2: we learned it by watching our father persevere, you know,

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Speaker 2: because let me tell you, our father, despite his disability,

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Speaker 2: was a man who got up every day.

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Speaker 3: And went to work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember a time in our life

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Speaker 2: that our dad missed a day of work.

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Speaker 3: Blue collar worker.

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Speaker 2: He took pride in the little things that I think

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Speaker 2: we take for granted, like paying your bills on time,

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Speaker 2: not being house poor. That's those a word that we

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Speaker 2: don't want to be house poor. But my father would

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Speaker 2: never let.

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Speaker 3: A bill go by. He was resilient and he.

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Speaker 2: Was positive in his life. He was a joyful man

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Speaker 2: because I think he adversity was relative in our house.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you could walk, if you could, you know,

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Speaker 2: hold down a job, if you could take care of

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Speaker 2: your family, if you could love your kids, if you

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Speaker 2: could live with honor and decency, well who cares if

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Speaker 2: you couldn't walk, you know who? He saw the blessings.

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Speaker 2: So I think for as I look at it, for me,

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Speaker 2: we learned to I mean.

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Speaker 3: Adversity was relative.

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Speaker 2: Diversity was a part of life, but it wasn't everything.

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Speaker 2: You know that you'd have to just work your way

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Speaker 2: through it. And the other thing I think Dad taught

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Speaker 2: us was gratitude, immense gratitude. I mean our fathers you

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Speaker 2: could tell from the stories, was a kind, gentle man.

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Speaker 2: He rarely raised his voice or got angry. But you

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Speaker 2: know when he was disappointed in us was when we

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Speaker 2: showed a lack of gratitude for what we had. You know,

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Speaker 2: if we had a bowl of ice cream and we

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Speaker 2: were looking for the second scoop before we finished our

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Speaker 2: the first group, what.

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Speaker 3: Would he say?

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Speaker 5: Never satisfy, never satisfied.

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Speaker 2: That would be the one admonistion, never satisfied.

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Speaker 5: And hate the those two words to this day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when I face adversity, his words, you know,

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Speaker 2: sit in my brain, It's like, what do I have

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Speaker 2: to complain about? What is it that I can't overcome?

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Speaker 2: Because of the model that my father set for me.

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Speaker 2: You know, why wouldn't I be happy? Why wouldn't I

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Speaker 2: be able to get through this? Because we saw a

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Speaker 2: man do it every day and do it without complaint.

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Speaker 2: Because if anybody had a reason to complain, would be

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Speaker 2: my father, who was a black man growing up in Chicago,

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Speaker 2: raised in desegregation, who was an intelligent man with ability

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Speaker 2: to do art, but couldn't live up to his promise.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there were a whole lot of reasons for

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Speaker 2: our father to be upset and angry and not happy

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Speaker 2: and to feel disappointed, to feel sorry for himself, but

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Speaker 2: he was the exact opposite. And so that's what I

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Speaker 2: think about when times get hard. It's like, look, my

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Speaker 2: dad would push through it.

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Speaker 5: Right, right, and I would. We could.

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Speaker 4: We could talk about our dad for two shows, right,

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Speaker 4: but we've.

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Speaker 5: Got the perfect yes, we do yes.

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Speaker 4: To talk about happiness and adversity and all that kind

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Speaker 4: of stuff. Doctor Lori Santos is a Yale professor. Oh

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Speaker 4: you guys, all right, all right, yeah good. She's host

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Speaker 4: of a wildly popular podcast called The Happiness Lab. She's

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Speaker 4: also the teacher of one of the most popular classes

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Speaker 4: at Yale.

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Speaker 3: Wish we had this when we were I.

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Speaker 5: Wish we had it.

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Speaker 4: And that's psychology and the good life. And she's just

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Speaker 4: an all around great person. So can you welcome doctor

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Speaker 4: Lori Santos.

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Speaker 6: Everybody, Well, hey, professor, hey Michelle, thank you for being

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Speaker 6: on here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Yeah yeah, yeah, little

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Speaker 1: intimate group, this is a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit intimate chat. So how did you come to teach

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Speaker 3: the course.

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Speaker 2: I know you've answered this question a million times before,

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Speaker 2: but what led you to understand that young people today

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Speaker 2: need a course on how to be happy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I took on this new role on Yale's campus,

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Speaker 1: where I became what's called the head of college. Yale's

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Speaker 1: one of these funny schools where there's like colleges within

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Speaker 1: a college, like Harry Potter, like Gryffindors Lytherin kind of thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I became head of a college on campus, and

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Speaker 1: that meant that I was like living with students, like

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Speaker 1: eating with them in the dining hall, hang out with

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Speaker 1: them up close and personal. And I just didn't realize

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Speaker 1: the college student mental health crisis was as bad as

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Speaker 1: it was. You're right now, Nash. More than forty percent

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Speaker 1: of college students say they're too depressed to function most day.

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Speaker 1: More than sixty percent say they're overwhelmingly anxious. Like, this

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Speaker 1: was a real crisis that I was seeing, and that

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Speaker 1: felt really frustrating because like, my field has all these

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Speaker 1: strategies we can use to feel better, experience more resilience,

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Speaker 1: feel less stressed. And I was like, let me just

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Speaker 1: develop this class. And then it got very very big,

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Speaker 1: not as big as this. But you're listening to a

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Speaker 1: live recording of me on Michelle Obama's new podcast, I AMO.

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Speaker 5: We'll be back after a quick break.

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Speaker 4: We've got a live question. We have a person, James.

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Speaker 4: Are you here?

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Speaker 5: Oh? There he is, James. James, you stand up, all right?

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Speaker 5: I'm standing all.

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Speaker 4: Right, Janet, all right, great, many so excited to be here.

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Speaker 7: My question is I'm twenty eight and I live in LA.

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Speaker 7: The fires impacted people close to me, and it feels

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Speaker 7: like that's only going to become more frequent. And everything

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Speaker 7: that's been happening politically, domestically, and globally, it feels like

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Speaker 7: a version of the world is ending.

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Speaker 5: And when I talk to.

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Speaker 7: Friends, they say this is the new normal, And my

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Speaker 7: immediate instinct is the push back. You know, we can't

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Speaker 7: accept this, but personally, living with the inevitability of it,

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Speaker 7: it also forces me to rethink what I always assumed

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Speaker 7: adulthood would look like, you know, buying a house, starting

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Speaker 7: a family. So my question is, do you have any

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Speaker 7: advice on how to plan for a future that feels

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Speaker 7: so different from the one we were promise without becoming

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Speaker 7: apathetic or just resigning yourself to things getting worse.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much. Cool, Thank you, James.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an aim in from everybody in this room, right,

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Speaker 2: everybody's feeling like that a bit lor You want to

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Speaker 2: start by taking any a but an answer, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, I mean, I think the first thing to answer,

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Speaker 1: the first thing to say for that question is that

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Speaker 1: this is normal. Right, You're not the only person in

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Speaker 1: the room that's going through that, And I think that

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Speaker 1: normalization is critical. All too often we can get into

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Speaker 1: this like toxic positivity vibe where it's like, I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: kind of embarrassed that I'm so upset and frustrated and

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed sad about what's going on in the world. But

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Speaker 1: like we're supposed to feel that negative emotions are normal

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Speaker 1: in an abnormal world, and I think it's fair to

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Speaker 1: say that we are, you know, not it's not great,

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Speaker 1: but we're in an abnormal world right now. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that's kind of point number one. The other

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Speaker 1: reason that normalization is so important is that psychologically it

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Speaker 1: can help us when you realize that these negative emotions

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Speaker 1: are a common human experience, that there are emotions that

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Speaker 1: are there to help you. They still don't feel good,

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Speaker 1: but it can allow you to get through them a

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Speaker 1: little bit better. Even here in Uti Austin, there's a researcher,

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Speaker 1: Kristin Nef who studies this process of what she calls

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Speaker 1: common humanity right recognizing like we're all going through it

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Speaker 1: right now, and what she finds is that can actually

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Speaker 1: help you get through tough times. She does this cool

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Speaker 1: research with Afghan and Iraqi veterans and finds that those

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Speaker 1: that give themselves self compassion realize that everybody's going through

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Speaker 1: a tough time here, they wind up coming out with

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Speaker 1: less evidence of PTSD and other related disorders. So like

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Speaker 1: when you give yourself a little grace for feeling those

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Speaker 1: negative emotions, realize they're normal and bad times, that actually

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Speaker 1: helps you get through the negative emotions.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that I want to get your take on, Laurie,

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Speaker 2: is what's happened to the bar on happiness? Because it

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Speaker 2: really feels like these days that the expectation of young

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Speaker 2: people are so high, and some of that I think

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Speaker 2: is our fault as parents. You know, when we were

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Speaker 2: growing up, I mean, life was a lot simpler, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, just to give you an example of excitement

401
00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:06,996
Speaker 2: in our house was getting pizza on report card day

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Speaker 2: if we got good grades, you know, I mean at

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Speaker 2: Christmas time.

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Speaker 3: We could ask for three gifts.

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Speaker 5: That was it.

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Speaker 2: You know, go through the Sears Roebucks wish book you

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Speaker 2: could pick three.

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Speaker 5: Things out and that was it.

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Speaker 2: What that?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or first of all Sears and that was the only

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Speaker 2: store you go to. You get your car tuned up

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Speaker 2: in a washing machine, and your school clothes all in

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Speaker 2: one place. And they have a catalog. And you know

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Speaker 2: what a catalog is young people. It's the thing you

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Speaker 2: look through for items and you pick it out. Well,

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00:22:45,356 --> 00:22:48,076
Speaker 2: that came out each year and that's where all the

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Speaker 2: toys were. So you know, our parents just you know,

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Speaker 2: they weren't happy that we got good grades. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you. Did my our parents push us

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Speaker 2: to go to Princeton. No, they were just like ghosts.

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Speaker 2: Do something with your life as long as you're a

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Speaker 2: good person. But when I think of young people today,

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00:23:08,916 --> 00:23:12,716
Speaker 2: this standard for happiness is like gone through the roof.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you.

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Speaker 2: Don't just go to college, but they're like seven colleges

427
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Speaker 2: you can go to or it doesn't matter or you know,

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Speaker 2: people you look on house hunters and everybody's looking for

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00:23:23,076 --> 00:23:27,556
Speaker 2: you know, marble counters and trade ceilings, and you know

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00:23:27,636 --> 00:23:31,276
Speaker 2: a man cave and there's a certain car and you know,

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Speaker 2: and you're not supposed to be successful, but you're also

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Speaker 2: supposed to be famous because social media tells you that

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Speaker 2: that's what it means to be happy. So I guess

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Speaker 2: that's the long way of asking, is some of this,

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00:23:45,636 --> 00:23:49,276
Speaker 2: you know, not just the world, because the world's been

436
00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:53,076
Speaker 2: bad and it's been worse than it is right now,

437
00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:57,636
Speaker 2: but people, young people are more unhappy than I think

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Speaker 2: we ever were with a lot less.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And we have data on this right looking across time,

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Speaker 1: and those rates of depression, anxiety and stuff I just

442
00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:08,276
Speaker 1: talked about, they're worse than there are young people right

443
00:24:08,276 --> 00:24:11,276
Speaker 1: now than ever since we've recorded them, right like, and

444
00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:13,396
Speaker 1: it's much worse. And I think you're exactly right. I

445
00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:16,836
Speaker 1: think it's a lot our expectations. Right. We have tools

446
00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:20,716
Speaker 1: that allow us to see those fancy houses, those fancy vacations,

447
00:24:20,756 --> 00:24:24,116
Speaker 1: those fancy schools, and they're just in our pockets, dinging

448
00:24:24,116 --> 00:24:26,556
Speaker 1: all the time, giving us a comparison that makes us

449
00:24:26,556 --> 00:24:29,036
Speaker 1: feel kind of crappy, right, And what we know from

450
00:24:29,076 --> 00:24:31,716
Speaker 1: the happiness science is that it's not what we objectively

451
00:24:31,796 --> 00:24:34,596
Speaker 1: have that makes us happy. It's what we're expecting, it's

452
00:24:34,596 --> 00:24:36,156
Speaker 1: what we're used to, you know. That's why I love

453
00:24:36,196 --> 00:24:37,996
Speaker 1: the story of your dad, right, you know, just getting

454
00:24:37,996 --> 00:24:40,876
Speaker 1: a little bowl of ice cream like that should be enough, right.

455
00:24:41,116 --> 00:24:43,516
Speaker 1: And so I think that, especially in young people, the

456
00:24:43,556 --> 00:24:46,916
Speaker 1: definition of enough has changed. There's lots of reasons for that.

457
00:24:46,996 --> 00:24:49,596
Speaker 1: But I think getting to a better point of accepting

458
00:24:49,876 --> 00:24:51,836
Speaker 1: and what our expectations are that'll help a lot.

459
00:24:52,196 --> 00:24:57,156
Speaker 2: And that's different from being complacent, right, because I think

460
00:24:57,276 --> 00:25:00,996
Speaker 2: we were taught that you don't need everything, and you're

461
00:25:00,996 --> 00:25:02,516
Speaker 2: not entitled to everything.

462
00:25:02,556 --> 00:25:02,876
Speaker 5: You're not.

463
00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:07,316
Speaker 2: We were taught not even entitled to happiness exactly. Our

464
00:25:07,476 --> 00:25:11,436
Speaker 2: parents didn't think they were responsible for our happiness.

465
00:25:11,436 --> 00:25:12,796
Speaker 5: For anybody in our generation.

466
00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:16,316
Speaker 2: You imagine a parent who worried about whether your child

467
00:25:16,396 --> 00:25:18,276
Speaker 2: was happy, and we didn't come from that. It was like,

468
00:25:18,316 --> 00:25:19,996
Speaker 2: you're not happy, to get over it, read a book,

469
00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 2: get out of my face, move along, go outside, you know,

470
00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:29,876
Speaker 2: and our generation of parents and mean, we lose sleep

471
00:25:29,956 --> 00:25:34,676
Speaker 2: if little person is sad today, and it's like sadness

472
00:25:34,716 --> 00:25:37,396
Speaker 2: and anxiety that's all a part of life.

473
00:25:38,076 --> 00:25:40,756
Speaker 3: But we as we parent our children.

474
00:25:41,436 --> 00:25:44,796
Speaker 2: I sometimes I think we've made them a little less resilient.

475
00:25:44,876 --> 00:25:48,316
Speaker 2: And again that's not to say that people aren't dealing

476
00:25:48,356 --> 00:25:51,756
Speaker 2: with real anxiety and mental health issues. But I think

477
00:25:52,036 --> 00:25:53,916
Speaker 2: one of the things I try to think about as

478
00:25:54,316 --> 00:25:57,036
Speaker 2: a parent, and I think our parents.

479
00:25:56,676 --> 00:25:57,796
Speaker 3: Did to us.

480
00:25:58,116 --> 00:26:00,636
Speaker 2: They tried to prepare us for what the world was

481
00:26:00,676 --> 00:26:05,276
Speaker 2: going to be, which was oftentimes disappointing, most of the

482
00:26:05,356 --> 00:26:10,916
Speaker 2: time hard, and there would deep anxiety that you'd have

483
00:26:10,956 --> 00:26:12,516
Speaker 2: to get through at all times.

484
00:26:12,596 --> 00:26:17,036
Speaker 3: So they gave us those tools much.

485
00:26:16,876 --> 00:26:20,076
Speaker 2: Earlier than I think some parents today are willing to

486
00:26:20,436 --> 00:26:20,916
Speaker 2: let their.

487
00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:23,316
Speaker 3: Kids go through some of those tough feelings.

488
00:26:23,356 --> 00:26:25,876
Speaker 2: So then they get out in the real world and

489
00:26:25,916 --> 00:26:29,796
Speaker 2: they're confronted with a whole lot of emotions that nobody

490
00:26:29,796 --> 00:26:30,996
Speaker 2: ever told them what's coming.

491
00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:33,516
Speaker 1: That's right, and I think it leads to mental health crisis,

492
00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:36,036
Speaker 1: not just in our young people, but also in parents.

493
00:26:36,356 --> 00:26:39,396
Speaker 1: The former Surgeon General vveck Murty talked a lot about

494
00:26:39,676 --> 00:26:42,436
Speaker 1: parent mental health and parent stress. He actually issued like

495
00:26:42,436 --> 00:26:45,076
Speaker 1: a public health advisory on the fact that parents are

496
00:26:45,316 --> 00:26:47,676
Speaker 1: going through their own tough emotions. But the biggest tough

497
00:26:47,676 --> 00:26:51,436
Speaker 1: emotion that parents reported is guilt, as though you know

498
00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:53,396
Speaker 1: they're not doing enough for their kids happiness, They're not

499
00:26:53,476 --> 00:26:55,716
Speaker 1: doing enough to kind of give them everything they need.

500
00:26:55,756 --> 00:26:58,196
Speaker 1: And I think that reflects exactly what you're saying, Laurie.

501
00:26:58,196 --> 00:27:02,276
Speaker 4: I want to get James question sort of deals with

502
00:27:02,356 --> 00:27:06,796
Speaker 4: a little bit of hopelessness there, and I was just

503
00:27:06,796 --> 00:27:09,116
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what does it mean for us

504
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:12,876
Speaker 4: our culture with so many people feeling hopeless?

505
00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:16,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, was bad, as you probably guess, not great to

506
00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:19,516
Speaker 1: live in a completely hopeless culture. And we really do

507
00:27:19,596 --> 00:27:21,316
Speaker 1: live in more of a hopeless culture than we ever

508
00:27:21,396 --> 00:27:24,156
Speaker 1: have before. Your researchers go out and study this, and

509
00:27:24,196 --> 00:27:26,716
Speaker 1: they have over time. One of the best questions for

510
00:27:26,756 --> 00:27:29,596
Speaker 1: this is they just ask people, on average, can you

511
00:27:29,676 --> 00:27:33,036
Speaker 1: trust the other people around you? Right in the nineteen seventies,

512
00:27:33,036 --> 00:27:35,596
Speaker 1: when they asked polksact question, around fifty percent of people

513
00:27:35,596 --> 00:27:38,876
Speaker 1: said yeah, on average, most folks can get trusted. When

514
00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:41,076
Speaker 1: you ask that same question in twenty eighteen, it's down

515
00:27:41,116 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 1: to a little less than a third. That doesn't sound

516
00:27:43,396 --> 00:27:45,076
Speaker 1: like a big drop, but if I was plotting that,

517
00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:47,356
Speaker 1: that's basically how much money we lost in two thousand

518
00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:49,356
Speaker 1: and eight when the financial crisis happened. Right, So this

519
00:27:49,436 --> 00:27:52,636
Speaker 1: is a like complete like off a cliff decline in

520
00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:55,716
Speaker 1: people's sense of trust, in people's sense of hope, and

521
00:27:55,756 --> 00:27:57,796
Speaker 1: it's bad for lots of reason. It's bad for us personally.

522
00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:02,116
Speaker 1: People who experience less hope experience more depression, experience more anxiety,

523
00:28:02,156 --> 00:28:04,716
Speaker 1: experience more loneliness, which is interesting, hope seems to be

524
00:28:05,036 --> 00:28:08,036
Speaker 1: connected to our social connection. Also bad for our bodies.

525
00:28:08,236 --> 00:28:11,916
Speaker 1: People who are more sick report experiencing more diabetes, experiencing

526
00:28:11,916 --> 00:28:14,436
Speaker 1: more heart disease. And it's probably bad for us as

527
00:28:14,436 --> 00:28:17,796
Speaker 1: a society because when you don't experience hope, what you

528
00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:20,156
Speaker 1: think is like, stuff's never going to get better. And

529
00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:21,636
Speaker 1: when you think stuff's never going to get better, you

530
00:28:21,636 --> 00:28:24,596
Speaker 1: don't take action to make it better. Right, You don't vote,

531
00:28:24,636 --> 00:28:27,236
Speaker 1: you don't do things pro socially to help other people.

532
00:28:27,596 --> 00:28:29,916
Speaker 1: And what you find research wise is if you study

533
00:28:29,916 --> 00:28:32,076
Speaker 1: people who are cynical, they self report not voting, they

534
00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:34,756
Speaker 1: self report not donating to charity, not doing the stuff

535
00:28:34,956 --> 00:28:37,396
Speaker 1: that you need to do to make things better. So, yeah,

536
00:28:37,516 --> 00:28:40,636
Speaker 1: it's really bad, and it becomes a vicious cycle, right

537
00:28:40,716 --> 00:28:43,956
Speaker 1: because as more people get hopeless, then they look out

538
00:28:43,956 --> 00:28:45,796
Speaker 1: in the world with this hopeless lens. They post on

539
00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:47,916
Speaker 1: social media with a hopeless lens. We get podcasts that

540
00:28:47,956 --> 00:28:50,476
Speaker 1: are very hopeless, and it just becomes this cycle where

541
00:28:50,756 --> 00:28:54,036
Speaker 1: we reinforce each other's bad perception of the world, one

542
00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:55,596
Speaker 1: that might not even be really accurate.

543
00:28:55,996 --> 00:29:00,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you talk about that transference, the ability for

544
00:29:00,236 --> 00:29:05,316
Speaker 2: us to you know, export our bad energy onto other people,

545
00:29:05,556 --> 00:29:09,716
Speaker 2: and we naturally, as humans we pick up those those cues.

546
00:29:09,836 --> 00:29:12,876
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more about that transference that.

547
00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:16,396
Speaker 1: You Yeah, I mean, we know for sure that emotions

548
00:29:16,436 --> 00:29:19,476
Speaker 1: are contagious, right, They're just like COVID and we know this. Right,

549
00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:20,996
Speaker 1: you go into an office and you hang out with

550
00:29:20,996 --> 00:29:24,396
Speaker 1: somebody who's feeling hyped up and optimistic and excited, you

551
00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:26,076
Speaker 1: kind of catch that. Right. You go into the same

552
00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:28,436
Speaker 1: office as somebody who's down and not feeling it like,

553
00:29:28,756 --> 00:29:31,756
Speaker 1: you catch that too, right. These days, we don't just

554
00:29:31,836 --> 00:29:34,676
Speaker 1: catch emotions from the other people we're around. We have

555
00:29:34,756 --> 00:29:39,156
Speaker 1: this transfer system online where folks are catching emotions globally.

556
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:41,556
Speaker 1: You know, I hop on some social media platform, I'm

557
00:29:41,596 --> 00:29:44,276
Speaker 1: catching some emotion from somebody on Instagram that lives in

558
00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:46,916
Speaker 1: a different country and a completely different time zone. But

559
00:29:46,996 --> 00:29:49,676
Speaker 1: I catch that too, And that's made worth by the

560
00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:53,156
Speaker 1: fact that these social media companies obviously have algorithms that

561
00:29:53,276 --> 00:29:56,476
Speaker 1: thrive not on us catching each other's positive emotions, but

562
00:29:56,556 --> 00:30:00,076
Speaker 1: I'm catching each other's anger and outrage and sadness. Right,

563
00:30:00,116 --> 00:30:03,276
Speaker 1: that's what gets eyeballs on our phones. And so all

564
00:30:03,276 --> 00:30:06,156
Speaker 1: these things together means not just that there's transference, but

565
00:30:06,236 --> 00:30:09,516
Speaker 1: there's particular transference of the bad stuff, of the hope blessness.

566
00:30:09,716 --> 00:30:12,836
Speaker 4: You know, our mom and mishe will remember this, But

567
00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:16,156
Speaker 4: obviously we didn't have social media growing up, but we

568
00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:20,556
Speaker 4: had friends who had stuff or friends who said things,

569
00:30:20,636 --> 00:30:24,236
Speaker 4: and our mom was always why do you care about

570
00:30:24,276 --> 00:30:29,956
Speaker 4: what they say? And I find trying to give my

571
00:30:30,076 --> 00:30:32,516
Speaker 4: kids that advice is hard with social media, and I

572
00:30:32,516 --> 00:30:36,316
Speaker 4: think a lot of parents find it hard. How do

573
00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:42,356
Speaker 4: we balance that these days with social media? Because you know,

574
00:30:42,436 --> 00:30:45,716
Speaker 4: we recently were talking with someone else who was telling us,

575
00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:47,956
Speaker 4: you just if you take social media away, you got

576
00:30:47,956 --> 00:30:51,316
Speaker 4: to replace it with something. But my question is, how

577
00:30:51,316 --> 00:30:53,996
Speaker 4: do we help help folks find a balance here?

578
00:30:54,156 --> 00:30:56,116
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the ways to find a

579
00:30:56,156 --> 00:30:59,316
Speaker 1: balance is just to realize that what we're exposed to

580
00:30:59,556 --> 00:31:02,476
Speaker 1: affects us. Right, you hop on Instagram and you start

581
00:31:02,476 --> 00:31:04,916
Speaker 1: scrolling through that feed, you might know that some of

582
00:31:04,956 --> 00:31:07,916
Speaker 1: the stuff you look at as photoshopped. You might know this,

583
00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:10,236
Speaker 1: some of the stuff you know these companies are they

584
00:31:10,236 --> 00:31:11,876
Speaker 1: have algorithms that are sort of pointing you in a

585
00:31:11,876 --> 00:31:15,876
Speaker 1: bad direction. But that doesn't enter psychologically. You're just soaking

586
00:31:15,876 --> 00:31:18,076
Speaker 1: in the emotions and then the stuff you see. Right,

587
00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:20,196
Speaker 1: But I think that knowledge can be a little bit

588
00:31:20,236 --> 00:31:20,676
Speaker 1: of power.

589
00:31:20,916 --> 00:31:21,076
Speaker 2: Right.

590
00:31:21,436 --> 00:31:23,596
Speaker 1: You can even ask yourself, like how do I feel

591
00:31:23,636 --> 00:31:25,916
Speaker 1: after that? Scroll through Reddit or through social media and

592
00:31:25,956 --> 00:31:29,156
Speaker 1: ask yourself the question, do I feel more empowered, more hopeful,

593
00:31:29,276 --> 00:31:32,636
Speaker 1: or do I feel kind of gross and like in despair? Right?

594
00:31:33,236 --> 00:31:35,396
Speaker 1: You can make the choice to put that away. Right.

595
00:31:35,596 --> 00:31:38,236
Speaker 1: You can kind of notice mindfully how it's making you feel,

596
00:31:38,556 --> 00:31:40,996
Speaker 1: and you sort of choose to stick it back in

597
00:31:41,036 --> 00:31:44,756
Speaker 1: your pocket. Social media companies wouldn't have these algorithms if

598
00:31:44,796 --> 00:31:47,476
Speaker 1: all our eyeballs weren't on phones anymore. And we actually

599
00:31:47,516 --> 00:31:50,356
Speaker 1: have more agency than we often remember in that fight.

600
00:31:51,116 --> 00:31:54,476
Speaker 2: People always ask me and Barack how do we stay

601
00:31:54,756 --> 00:31:58,276
Speaker 2: hopeful in the not just the eight years that we

602
00:31:58,276 --> 00:32:01,236
Speaker 2: were in the White House, but beyond, Because let me

603
00:32:01,276 --> 00:32:03,956
Speaker 2: tell you, there was a lot of negative energy float

604
00:32:03,956 --> 00:32:07,716
Speaker 2: in our way, a lot of rumors, a lot of gossip,

605
00:32:07,796 --> 00:32:10,636
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, my husband wasn't born in

606
00:32:10,676 --> 00:32:15,916
Speaker 2: this country. We didn't care about we weren't patriotic, you know.

607
00:32:16,196 --> 00:32:19,676
Speaker 2: He yeah, he didn't get into Harvard. I mean, you know,

608
00:32:20,316 --> 00:32:22,756
Speaker 2: I don't know if you all remember, I certainly do.

609
00:32:24,276 --> 00:32:25,996
Speaker 5: He wore a suit, wore a.

610
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:29,116
Speaker 3: Tan suit once. I mean, you know the level of

611
00:32:29,276 --> 00:32:31,756
Speaker 3: scandal that occurred.

612
00:32:31,916 --> 00:32:36,036
Speaker 2: But through it all, what kept us saying, and we

613
00:32:36,236 --> 00:32:40,036
Speaker 2: tried to instill this in our daughters, is you know

614
00:32:40,476 --> 00:32:44,836
Speaker 2: you cannot you know, you cannot live through social media.

615
00:32:45,596 --> 00:32:48,796
Speaker 2: I don't think I have ever once looked at a

616
00:32:48,836 --> 00:32:53,196
Speaker 2: comments section period and at all ever.

617
00:32:55,316 --> 00:32:57,636
Speaker 5: And I know it's difficult.

618
00:32:57,116 --> 00:33:01,876
Speaker 2: For this generation, but you know, I would implore young

619
00:33:01,996 --> 00:33:07,596
Speaker 2: people to stay don't let that negative energy enter into

620
00:33:07,716 --> 00:33:11,036
Speaker 2: your space. These are people who don't know you. A

621
00:33:11,036 --> 00:33:14,596
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff is made up and it does

622
00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:19,556
Speaker 2: not feed you. And I you know, I mean, I

623
00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:23,236
Speaker 2: can't do it, and we never do. Now that doesn't

624
00:33:23,276 --> 00:33:27,676
Speaker 2: mean you don't stay informed. But staying informed has nothing

625
00:33:27,716 --> 00:33:30,116
Speaker 2: to do with the comments section, you know, it has

626
00:33:30,156 --> 00:33:32,956
Speaker 2: everything to do with the content of the stories that

627
00:33:32,996 --> 00:33:36,236
Speaker 2: you take in. And I think, you know, we cannot

628
00:33:36,316 --> 00:33:39,756
Speaker 2: get so trapped by social media that we feel so

629
00:33:40,356 --> 00:33:44,156
Speaker 2: caught up into the one way we get information. We've

630
00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:48,516
Speaker 2: got to broaden our spectrum, and we have to get

631
00:33:48,516 --> 00:33:51,756
Speaker 2: off the phone, you know, which is another thing, and

632
00:33:51,796 --> 00:33:55,156
Speaker 2: I would love for you to talk a bit about

633
00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:57,396
Speaker 2: that as a tool. I know you've got a lot

634
00:33:57,396 --> 00:33:59,956
Speaker 2: of tools, but there are a lot of people here

635
00:34:00,396 --> 00:34:03,556
Speaker 2: of all ages who are trapped by their phones. And

636
00:34:03,596 --> 00:34:06,596
Speaker 2: when you talk about us being disconnected and not talking

637
00:34:06,636 --> 00:34:08,356
Speaker 2: to each other, I am.

638
00:34:08,476 --> 00:34:09,316
Speaker 5: I am not out in.

639
00:34:09,236 --> 00:34:11,516
Speaker 3: The world like a normal person anymore.

640
00:34:11,916 --> 00:34:16,076
Speaker 2: But when I am, people don't even recognize me. You

641
00:34:16,156 --> 00:34:20,356
Speaker 2: know why, because they're on their phones. Nobody is looking

642
00:34:20,436 --> 00:34:23,116
Speaker 2: at each other. I can walk right past somebody with

643
00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:25,596
Speaker 2: a hat on, you know, and I'm just a black

644
00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:26,876
Speaker 2: woman in a cap.

645
00:34:27,756 --> 00:34:31,276
Speaker 5: But I don't know. No, I've done it. I don't

646
00:34:31,276 --> 00:34:33,756
Speaker 5: know about it. I have done it. I fly commercial.

647
00:34:34,156 --> 00:34:37,036
Speaker 2: I am out there with the people, and folks are

648
00:34:37,116 --> 00:34:38,196
Speaker 2: not paying attention.

649
00:34:39,556 --> 00:34:41,276
Speaker 5: I fly commercial.

650
00:34:41,956 --> 00:34:48,356
Speaker 4: So okay, okay, see the thing.

651
00:34:48,276 --> 00:34:51,356
Speaker 3: I'm here.

652
00:34:52,036 --> 00:34:56,396
Speaker 5: Walking around flying commercial. How's Michelle tell Michelle? I said, Hi,

653
00:34:57,396 --> 00:35:00,316
Speaker 5: how she doing? They? Okay?

654
00:35:00,556 --> 00:35:05,596
Speaker 6: Anyway, strategy strategies.

655
00:35:06,996 --> 00:35:09,356
Speaker 5: I'm going to get a mute button for.

656
00:35:11,716 --> 00:35:11,876
Speaker 4: Yeah.

657
00:35:11,956 --> 00:35:14,516
Speaker 1: No, but strategies. I mean, I think awareness is really

658
00:35:14,636 --> 00:35:17,156
Speaker 1: key here. One of my favorite strategies for sort of

659
00:35:17,276 --> 00:35:19,276
Speaker 1: dealing with your phone and being on your phone all

660
00:35:19,316 --> 00:35:21,996
Speaker 1: the time comes from the journalist Catherine Price. She has

661
00:35:22,036 --> 00:35:24,076
Speaker 1: this lovely book How to Break Up with Your Phone,

662
00:35:24,196 --> 00:35:25,596
Speaker 1: where she argues you don't have to break up with

663
00:35:25,596 --> 00:35:26,876
Speaker 1: your phone so much as you need to take it

664
00:35:26,916 --> 00:35:29,476
Speaker 1: to like couples counseling so that you can be a

665
00:35:29,516 --> 00:35:32,356
Speaker 1: wait better. But she has this really handy acronym that

666
00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:35,436
Speaker 1: she uses whenever she finds herself on her phone is WWW,

667
00:35:35,516 --> 00:35:36,956
Speaker 1: which you can think of because you're probably on the

668
00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:39,156
Speaker 1: World Wide Web rye. But this is not Worldwide Web.

669
00:35:39,556 --> 00:35:43,156
Speaker 1: WWW stands for what for? Why, now? And what else?

670
00:35:43,556 --> 00:35:44,956
Speaker 1: So what are you on your phone for? Maybe you're

671
00:35:45,036 --> 00:35:46,796
Speaker 1: checking your email or looking at a map, Maybe you're

672
00:35:46,836 --> 00:35:50,116
Speaker 1: just deep in some TikTok dive? Right? Was there a purpose?

673
00:35:50,276 --> 00:35:50,476
Speaker 2: Right?

674
00:35:50,876 --> 00:35:52,716
Speaker 1: Why? Now? This is an important one because you notice

675
00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:55,636
Speaker 1: your emotions? What drives you to your phone? Were you bored?

676
00:35:55,996 --> 00:35:59,076
Speaker 1: Were you anxious? Right? What's your cue that gets you there?

677
00:35:59,156 --> 00:36:03,396
Speaker 1: What's that craving coming from? And then finally, what else? Right?

678
00:36:03,516 --> 00:36:05,876
Speaker 1: What's the opportunity cost of being on your phone right now,

679
00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:08,196
Speaker 1: you might be missing Michelle Obama on your flight, Like

680
00:36:08,396 --> 00:36:10,396
Speaker 1: there's just saying right now thanks to you need to notice, right,

681
00:36:10,756 --> 00:36:13,076
Speaker 1: you might miss the beautiful scenery, you might miss the

682
00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:17,196
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to someone who has interesting stories, interesting ideas.

683
00:36:17,276 --> 00:36:20,636
Speaker 1: Right that what else question is critical because what studies

684
00:36:20,676 --> 00:36:23,596
Speaker 1: show us is that because we're on our phones, we're

685
00:36:23,716 --> 00:36:25,876
Speaker 1: less social than we could be. A lovely study by

686
00:36:25,916 --> 00:36:28,996
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Dunne at the University of British Columbia had people

687
00:36:29,076 --> 00:36:31,036
Speaker 1: with their phones or without their phones sitting in a

688
00:36:31,036 --> 00:36:32,756
Speaker 1: waiting room. They weren't even using their phones. It was

689
00:36:32,836 --> 00:36:34,836
Speaker 1: just like present or not, and she just measure the

690
00:36:34,876 --> 00:36:38,196
Speaker 1: amount of smiling that people did. You know, casual, somebody's

691
00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:40,076
Speaker 1: in your room, you just smile at them. She sees

692
00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:43,916
Speaker 1: thirty percent less smiling when phones are present. Right, calculate

693
00:36:43,956 --> 00:36:46,316
Speaker 1: that by all the phones you know, on planes in

694
00:36:46,356 --> 00:36:48,636
Speaker 1: Austin and so on. So we're really missing out. But

695
00:36:48,676 --> 00:36:51,156
Speaker 1: that strategy of WWW, I think what it gets us

696
00:36:51,156 --> 00:36:53,036
Speaker 1: towards is like we just have to be mindful, We

697
00:36:53,156 --> 00:36:55,196
Speaker 1: just have to notice. These are good tools, right, we

698
00:36:55,276 --> 00:36:58,396
Speaker 1: know even from COVID times they were so useful. But

699
00:36:58,436 --> 00:37:00,596
Speaker 1: we just have to use them in a healthy way.

700
00:37:00,956 --> 00:37:02,036
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.

701
00:37:03,556 --> 00:37:05,596
Speaker 1: Time perty quick Break, But there'll be more of me

702
00:37:05,716 --> 00:37:08,396
Speaker 1: on Michelle Obama's new podcast IMO in.

703
00:37:08,396 --> 00:37:19,236
Speaker 5: Just a Moment, Laurie.

704
00:37:19,276 --> 00:37:24,396
Speaker 4: What can we do to find hope when things are tough,

705
00:37:24,516 --> 00:37:28,156
Speaker 4: like in Jamee's situation he's looking at his friends who

706
00:37:28,156 --> 00:37:30,836
Speaker 4: have lost things in a fire or you know, other

707
00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:32,276
Speaker 4: personal disasters.

708
00:37:34,316 --> 00:37:35,036
Speaker 5: What can we do?

709
00:37:35,356 --> 00:37:37,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are a couple of things right.

710
00:37:37,276 --> 00:37:40,116
Speaker 1: One is making sure you have the right definition of hope,

711
00:37:40,116 --> 00:37:41,676
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes when we think of hope, we

712
00:37:41,716 --> 00:37:44,796
Speaker 1: think of what at least psychologists might call optimism. We're

713
00:37:44,916 --> 00:37:47,756
Speaker 1: just like, everything's gonna be fine. And I think that

714
00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:50,396
Speaker 1: everything's gonna be fine. Is like I mean, look at

715
00:37:50,396 --> 00:37:53,556
Speaker 1: the new like, look at X, like anywhere is not fine, right,

716
00:37:54,036 --> 00:37:56,596
Speaker 1: And so I think it's important to like call it

717
00:37:56,636 --> 00:37:58,556
Speaker 1: the way it is. It's not fine. But hope isn't

718
00:37:58,556 --> 00:38:02,716
Speaker 1: that hope says things are not fine. But I can

719
00:38:02,756 --> 00:38:05,316
Speaker 1: actually see at least a few paths for things to

720
00:38:05,356 --> 00:38:08,036
Speaker 1: get better. Why is that psychologically so important? If you

721
00:38:08,076 --> 00:38:10,236
Speaker 1: think things are fine right now, are you going to act?

722
00:38:10,636 --> 00:38:12,676
Speaker 1: You're going to take agency, You're going to do anything?

723
00:38:12,676 --> 00:38:14,636
Speaker 1: About it now, because you're just kind of things are

724
00:38:14,676 --> 00:38:17,156
Speaker 1: fine right now. You know the world's not on fire.

725
00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:20,156
Speaker 1: When you experience hope, what you feel is things are

726
00:38:20,156 --> 00:38:21,796
Speaker 1: not fine right now, but there is a path. What

727
00:38:21,836 --> 00:38:25,196
Speaker 1: does that path do? It gives you agency, It gives

728
00:38:25,196 --> 00:38:26,956
Speaker 1: you a sense that like something can be done, and

729
00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:29,196
Speaker 1: probably I can be a small part of what needs

730
00:38:29,236 --> 00:38:31,316
Speaker 1: to get done. And that small part is key because

731
00:38:31,316 --> 00:38:32,716
Speaker 1: I think when we think we have to be the

732
00:38:32,716 --> 00:38:35,716
Speaker 1: only one out there fixing everything, that also makes us

733
00:38:35,716 --> 00:38:38,436
Speaker 1: feel a little overwhelmed and sad. But when you realize

734
00:38:38,436 --> 00:38:41,196
Speaker 1: that you're a small action. You're checking in on someone,

735
00:38:41,436 --> 00:38:43,836
Speaker 1: you're donating five bucks to a cause you care about,

736
00:38:44,116 --> 00:38:46,756
Speaker 1: you stepping up in any way to make things better,

737
00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:49,236
Speaker 1: that actually matters. And one of the things we know

738
00:38:49,316 --> 00:38:52,836
Speaker 1: psychologically is that it also helps us feel a little

739
00:38:52,876 --> 00:38:55,916
Speaker 1: bit more hopeful when we take action. So you show

740
00:38:55,996 --> 00:38:58,516
Speaker 1: up at that cause you care about, or go to protests, right,

741
00:38:58,556 --> 00:39:02,076
Speaker 1: donate some money. Psychologically you start to feel like, oh,

742
00:39:02,396 --> 00:39:04,956
Speaker 1: we're even getting closer to a solution because I stepped up.

743
00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:07,636
Speaker 1: Maybe other people step up. You also see good social

744
00:39:07,716 --> 00:39:09,676
Speaker 1: evidence that you're not the only one. You show up

745
00:39:09,676 --> 00:39:11,316
Speaker 1: at a protest, You're usually not the only one there.

746
00:39:11,356 --> 00:39:12,956
Speaker 1: You get a whole room like this, full of people

747
00:39:12,996 --> 00:39:15,756
Speaker 1: who care. Now, all of a sudden, your beliefs start

748
00:39:15,796 --> 00:39:18,236
Speaker 1: to change. So you can, instead of being that vicious

749
00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:21,156
Speaker 1: cycle of hopelessness that we talked about before, you can

750
00:39:21,156 --> 00:39:25,236
Speaker 1: become part of a virtuous cycle of hopefulness. And that's

751
00:39:25,276 --> 00:39:27,716
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that can also be socially contagious.

752
00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:30,956
Speaker 2: And as somebody who has seen all kinds of power

753
00:39:31,116 --> 00:39:33,036
Speaker 2: at work, you know, I've been at some of the

754
00:39:33,036 --> 00:39:36,916
Speaker 2: most powerful tables, one of the things I remind people

755
00:39:36,956 --> 00:39:39,836
Speaker 2: of is, yes, there is large power. You know, there

756
00:39:39,876 --> 00:39:42,236
Speaker 2: are a handful of people in the world who can

757
00:39:42,316 --> 00:39:46,116
Speaker 2: do a few things that can impact so many. But

758
00:39:46,156 --> 00:39:49,116
Speaker 2: the truth is is that the small power that each

759
00:39:49,156 --> 00:39:52,676
Speaker 2: of us has to do something right in front of us,

760
00:39:52,996 --> 00:39:58,036
Speaker 2: if we're all doing that, outweighs anything that you know,

761
00:39:58,436 --> 00:40:00,636
Speaker 2: some big leader somewhere can do.

762
00:40:00,756 --> 00:40:02,436
Speaker 5: I mean, if you just think about.

763
00:40:02,316 --> 00:40:09,756
Speaker 2: Yeah, just think about as our parents did you know,

764
00:40:10,076 --> 00:40:13,596
Speaker 2: marrying and Fraser Robinson who didn't go to college, you know,

765
00:40:15,316 --> 00:40:17,916
Speaker 2: mother stayed at home, father was a city worker. And

766
00:40:18,036 --> 00:40:20,956
Speaker 2: let me just stop and and and give a big

767
00:40:20,996 --> 00:40:25,476
Speaker 2: shout out to city and federal workers, people who are

768
00:40:25,556 --> 00:40:33,796
Speaker 2: the lifeblood of this country. Also, those jobs helped to

769
00:40:33,956 --> 00:40:38,596
Speaker 2: create an entire middle class of people like our fathers,

770
00:40:39,676 --> 00:40:44,116
Speaker 2: our father our parents, and they do the lion's share

771
00:40:44,156 --> 00:40:47,476
Speaker 2: of the work in this country. You know, if we're

772
00:40:47,516 --> 00:40:51,076
Speaker 2: going to start asking who's doing what, I would from

773
00:40:51,156 --> 00:40:54,396
Speaker 2: my experience the folks who are working on the ground

774
00:40:54,516 --> 00:40:57,196
Speaker 2: and picking up our garbage and making sure that our

775
00:40:57,596 --> 00:41:00,076
Speaker 2: you know, schools run and that our air is clean,

776
00:41:00,156 --> 00:41:02,356
Speaker 2: and that our flights stay up in the air. That

777
00:41:02,436 --> 00:41:15,036
Speaker 2: those people are the true heart and blood of this country.

778
00:41:15,276 --> 00:41:20,636
Speaker 3: But that power is what changes things.

779
00:41:21,236 --> 00:41:21,476
Speaker 5: You know.

780
00:41:21,876 --> 00:41:25,116
Speaker 2: Those parents, with a little bit that they were able

781
00:41:25,156 --> 00:41:28,516
Speaker 2: to do with their power, raised two of us, you know.

782
00:41:29,396 --> 00:41:32,636
Speaker 2: And if you just think that if everybody on this

783
00:41:32,876 --> 00:41:36,836
Speaker 2: planet was valued and had an opportunity to have a

784
00:41:36,956 --> 00:41:39,436
Speaker 2: job and to take care of their kids and to

785
00:41:39,996 --> 00:41:43,436
Speaker 2: raise them with some level of honesty and kindness and

786
00:41:43,476 --> 00:41:46,796
Speaker 2: with humanity and taught them to love everybody and to

787
00:41:46,876 --> 00:41:51,036
Speaker 2: be inclusive. You know, just imagine if everybody did that

788
00:41:51,196 --> 00:41:53,996
Speaker 2: little thing right in their plate. You know, if you're

789
00:41:53,996 --> 00:41:57,036
Speaker 2: going to have some kids, you know, if you can

790
00:41:57,636 --> 00:42:02,156
Speaker 2: have the courage and the power to exercise that small

791
00:42:02,276 --> 00:42:05,716
Speaker 2: thing of raising them with some truth and some honesty.

792
00:42:06,036 --> 00:42:10,676
Speaker 2: Just imagine where we would be right now as a country,

793
00:42:10,956 --> 00:42:13,956
Speaker 2: you know, imagine what our leadership would look like and

794
00:42:13,996 --> 00:42:17,036
Speaker 2: how we would ask them to speak and to act

795
00:42:17,196 --> 00:42:19,676
Speaker 2: and to model that.

796
00:42:19,676 --> 00:42:24,396
Speaker 3: That is the that is the beauty of small power.

797
00:42:24,636 --> 00:42:24,876
Speaker 5: You know.

798
00:42:25,036 --> 00:42:29,116
Speaker 2: So, as James, you know, thinks about what to do.

799
00:42:29,676 --> 00:42:33,236
Speaker 2: You know, I hope that retreating into hopelessness is not

800
00:42:33,396 --> 00:42:38,436
Speaker 2: on the list, because shoot, if my dad didn't, this

801
00:42:38,476 --> 00:42:41,996
Speaker 2: is how I fail. My father, Frasier Robinson didn't retreat

802
00:42:42,036 --> 00:42:45,196
Speaker 2: with all that he could have retreated from in times

803
00:42:45,196 --> 00:42:48,156
Speaker 2: a lot tougher than this, because he wanted to lay

804
00:42:48,156 --> 00:42:52,036
Speaker 2: a foundation for us that we have that obligation, all

805
00:42:52,076 --> 00:42:54,756
Speaker 2: of us to do the same thing. We can't afford

806
00:42:55,116 --> 00:42:57,756
Speaker 2: to be hopeless. I would say, yeah, And I love.

807
00:42:57,636 --> 00:42:59,356
Speaker 1: The U share the story of your father, because it's

808
00:42:59,396 --> 00:43:01,956
Speaker 1: also one of the strategies that we can use, tiny

809
00:43:01,996 --> 00:43:04,756
Speaker 1: strategy we can use individually to do better, which is

810
00:43:04,836 --> 00:43:09,396
Speaker 1: sharing these positive social stories like the world and social media.

811
00:43:09,396 --> 00:43:12,236
Speaker 1: All these aglorithms are filled with terrible stories, but you

812
00:43:12,276 --> 00:43:14,636
Speaker 1: can actually see the good ones. You can say, you know,

813
00:43:14,996 --> 00:43:17,636
Speaker 1: my dad in the midst of experiencing this terrible disease

814
00:43:18,076 --> 00:43:20,796
Speaker 1: was hopefully you taught us gratitude, right, And you know

815
00:43:20,876 --> 00:43:22,916
Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be Michelle Obama's dad. Right.

816
00:43:22,956 --> 00:43:26,636
Speaker 1: You can find these little examples of moral goodness, but

817
00:43:26,716 --> 00:43:29,716
Speaker 1: don't just keep them to yourself. Share them. And I

818
00:43:29,716 --> 00:43:31,276
Speaker 1: think if you're a parent, this is one of the

819
00:43:31,276 --> 00:43:33,796
Speaker 1: best things you can do to your kids, right, because

820
00:43:33,796 --> 00:43:35,796
Speaker 1: they're maybe don't even have as much kind of frontal

821
00:43:35,796 --> 00:43:37,516
Speaker 1: low power to go out there and find those good

822
00:43:37,596 --> 00:43:40,596
Speaker 1: stories over the dinner table. What moral goodness did you

823
00:43:40,636 --> 00:43:41,196
Speaker 1: see today?

824
00:43:41,396 --> 00:43:41,556
Speaker 5: Right?

825
00:43:41,596 --> 00:43:43,556
Speaker 1: What was something that delighted you that kind of made

826
00:43:43,596 --> 00:43:46,516
Speaker 1: you happy, specifically about what somebody else was doing. We

827
00:43:46,556 --> 00:43:48,636
Speaker 1: don't share these enough. But the sad thing is like

828
00:43:48,756 --> 00:43:51,116
Speaker 1: they're out there, we just don't hear about them enough.

829
00:43:51,116 --> 00:43:52,476
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the reasons I'm so glad

830
00:43:52,636 --> 00:43:54,836
Speaker 1: y'all are doing this podcast. There's there read way more

831
00:43:54,876 --> 00:43:57,116
Speaker 1: stories than that that come out that allow for what

832
00:43:57,156 --> 00:44:00,396
Speaker 1: researchers call social savoring or sort of savoring the goodness

833
00:44:00,396 --> 00:44:00,996
Speaker 1: of other people.

834
00:44:01,076 --> 00:44:03,196
Speaker 2: And that's also a way, I'm sorry, creative for people

835
00:44:03,276 --> 00:44:04,956
Speaker 2: to use their social media.

836
00:44:05,196 --> 00:44:08,676
Speaker 3: You know, you know it's there for a reason. There's

837
00:44:08,756 --> 00:44:09,836
Speaker 3: power in it, you.

838
00:44:09,796 --> 00:44:12,716
Speaker 2: Know, but we have to resist the notion to use

839
00:44:12,756 --> 00:44:15,316
Speaker 2: it to harp on each other, to diss and to

840
00:44:15,716 --> 00:44:18,876
Speaker 2: you know, spread gossip into you know, I mean, each

841
00:44:18,956 --> 00:44:22,076
Speaker 2: of us in our world can encourage the people within

842
00:44:22,156 --> 00:44:27,156
Speaker 2: it to use the tool for good. You know, it

843
00:44:27,316 --> 00:44:30,236
Speaker 2: is a choice that we can make right now, everybody

844
00:44:30,276 --> 00:44:34,876
Speaker 2: in this room, everybody listening to this podcast, who hears us,

845
00:44:35,236 --> 00:44:38,236
Speaker 2: you can make a choice to either, you know, use

846
00:44:38,316 --> 00:44:41,836
Speaker 2: these tools for good, or use them for evil, or

847
00:44:41,996 --> 00:44:46,796
Speaker 2: to use them to appease your frustration. Because remember, as

848
00:44:46,876 --> 00:44:50,836
Speaker 2: Laurie said, we pass on that energy. You know, we're

849
00:44:50,956 --> 00:44:54,796
Speaker 2: passing it on our anger. Our rage, you know, is

850
00:44:54,836 --> 00:44:58,236
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why you know, when our household

851
00:44:58,356 --> 00:45:02,316
Speaker 2: we use the model going high is important, because going

852
00:45:02,396 --> 00:45:05,276
Speaker 2: high is the model, especially if you have a platform

853
00:45:05,596 --> 00:45:08,636
Speaker 2: like we did for eight years. Yeah, it's easy to

854
00:45:08,756 --> 00:45:11,716
Speaker 2: get on a big platform and rile people up and

855
00:45:11,716 --> 00:45:14,356
Speaker 2: to say hateful things and to make fun of people.

856
00:45:14,636 --> 00:45:16,036
Speaker 3: Of course, anybody could do that.

857
00:45:16,196 --> 00:45:20,116
Speaker 2: Any leader can do that, right That's the easiest way

858
00:45:20,116 --> 00:45:24,796
Speaker 2: to lead because you're sort of tapping into your easiest basis,

859
00:45:24,836 --> 00:45:29,996
Speaker 2: you know, core, and you lash out. You share that anger,

860
00:45:30,516 --> 00:45:33,156
Speaker 2: the strength and the power comes is when you can

861
00:45:33,196 --> 00:45:37,356
Speaker 2: harness that you know and understand that if you have

862
00:45:37,396 --> 00:45:39,996
Speaker 2: a platform, if you're going to be on social media,

863
00:45:40,116 --> 00:45:43,356
Speaker 2: that you now have an obligation not to spread hate

864
00:45:44,316 --> 00:45:45,756
Speaker 2: and bitterness and anger.

865
00:45:50,036 --> 00:45:54,636
Speaker 5: And if only because I want to give.

866
00:45:55,996 --> 00:46:00,036
Speaker 4: James some takeaways, but this is Craig's job, we also

867
00:46:00,236 --> 00:46:04,076
Speaker 4: have we also have the happiness doctor here, So how

868
00:46:04,196 --> 00:46:07,596
Speaker 4: can we and and let me back up, because our

869
00:46:07,636 --> 00:46:11,036
Speaker 4: mom used to say, you're responsible for your own happiness,

870
00:46:11,516 --> 00:46:14,956
Speaker 4: and that was some of the most empowering advice she

871
00:46:15,036 --> 00:46:15,996
Speaker 4: ever gave us.

872
00:46:16,276 --> 00:46:17,396
Speaker 5: How can we help.

873
00:46:17,316 --> 00:46:20,716
Speaker 4: Those out there who don't have a Marian Robinson or

874
00:46:21,676 --> 00:46:24,516
Speaker 4: a social group, how can we help them work through

875
00:46:25,396 --> 00:46:26,476
Speaker 4: making themselves happy?

876
00:46:26,676 --> 00:46:28,836
Speaker 1: Well, your mom might have been a better happiness scientist

877
00:46:28,836 --> 00:46:31,476
Speaker 1: than yeah, because she's like reading the evidence out there,

878
00:46:31,476 --> 00:46:33,716
Speaker 1: because that's what the evidence really shows, is that it

879
00:46:33,756 --> 00:46:36,356
Speaker 1: takes some work, but you can do things to feel better,

880
00:46:36,756 --> 00:46:40,476
Speaker 1: even in a horrible situation. Right, even in a horrible situation,

881
00:46:40,516 --> 00:46:42,956
Speaker 1: there are things you can do to feel a little

882
00:46:42,956 --> 00:46:44,676
Speaker 1: bit better. And I think one of the biggest ones

883
00:46:44,756 --> 00:46:46,956
Speaker 1: is really to connect with other people. You know, you

884
00:46:46,996 --> 00:46:49,476
Speaker 1: talked about the problem of phones leading us away from

885
00:46:49,516 --> 00:46:52,356
Speaker 1: each other. You talked about the loneliness crisis, Like, you're

886
00:46:52,396 --> 00:46:54,196
Speaker 1: in a room with lots of other folks right now,

887
00:46:54,196 --> 00:46:56,236
Speaker 1: you're probably in lots of rooms with lots of other folks.

888
00:46:56,596 --> 00:46:58,916
Speaker 1: Just talk to them, right, check in on your friends,

889
00:46:58,996 --> 00:47:01,956
Speaker 1: reach out to them. These things sound silly, they sound

890
00:47:01,996 --> 00:47:04,676
Speaker 1: like such a tiny thing to do, but they allow

891
00:47:04,756 --> 00:47:08,156
Speaker 1: us to get towards more civic action, right. They're really like,

892
00:47:08,556 --> 00:47:11,436
Speaker 1: in at very time anyway, the basis of democracy, right,

893
00:47:11,476 --> 00:47:13,476
Speaker 1: just talking to people and getting to know them, right,

894
00:47:13,716 --> 00:47:16,676
Speaker 1: And so in your own small world, do that and

895
00:47:16,796 --> 00:47:19,796
Speaker 1: reach out to the people that you care about. We

896
00:47:19,836 --> 00:47:21,996
Speaker 1: often assume again that that's kind of a silly thing

897
00:47:22,036 --> 00:47:23,716
Speaker 1: to do, but what the studies show is that when

898
00:47:23,756 --> 00:47:25,796
Speaker 1: you're reaching out to other people, when you're checking in

899
00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:29,476
Speaker 1: on other people, that boosts your happiness too. So you're ultimately,

900
00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:32,836
Speaker 1: by doing nice things for others, growing the pie, and

901
00:47:32,916 --> 00:47:34,636
Speaker 1: you're giving yourself a little bit more of a sense

902
00:47:34,636 --> 00:47:36,316
Speaker 1: of hope because whenever you take action, you're like, oh

903
00:47:36,316 --> 00:47:38,956
Speaker 1: my gosh, I have some agency. Things can't be that bad.

904
00:47:38,996 --> 00:47:40,316
Speaker 1: I can make it a little bit better.

905
00:47:41,396 --> 00:47:46,356
Speaker 2: Well, And I know, Craig, you're a coach, you've coached, you've.

906
00:47:46,276 --> 00:47:47,196
Speaker 3: You know mentored.

907
00:47:48,196 --> 00:47:49,036
Speaker 5: I know that.

908
00:47:49,516 --> 00:47:54,276
Speaker 2: You know, mentoring isn't just about giving, you know, it's

909
00:47:54,316 --> 00:47:56,196
Speaker 2: about what you get in return.

910
00:47:56,436 --> 00:47:58,036
Speaker 5: You want to talk about it, Yeah.

911
00:47:57,876 --> 00:48:01,396
Speaker 4: I I you know, I started out in corporate America

912
00:48:01,436 --> 00:48:04,836
Speaker 4: and moved into coaching, but I always felt like I

913
00:48:04,876 --> 00:48:08,436
Speaker 4: wanted to be a coach or a teacher because I

914
00:48:08,676 --> 00:48:11,796
Speaker 4: was coach and mentored by my dad, my mom and

915
00:48:12,076 --> 00:48:16,076
Speaker 4: really good coaches. And I thought it was really the

916
00:48:16,116 --> 00:48:18,316
Speaker 4: reason why I got to do all the wonderful things

917
00:48:18,356 --> 00:48:20,196
Speaker 4: I got to do, and I felt like I needed

918
00:48:20,236 --> 00:48:24,076
Speaker 4: to share that with all these other young people out there.

919
00:48:24,236 --> 00:48:31,196
Speaker 4: And to Laurie's point, it makes me feel fantastic and

920
00:48:31,236 --> 00:48:34,436
Speaker 4: it just is just such a wonderful, warm feeling to

921
00:48:34,476 --> 00:48:35,476
Speaker 4: be able to help folks.

922
00:48:35,676 --> 00:48:37,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think another thing that we can do

923
00:48:37,556 --> 00:48:39,596
Speaker 1: again kind of channeling your parents, because I think they

924
00:48:39,596 --> 00:48:41,756
Speaker 1: were on top of this stuff, is what your dad said, right,

925
00:48:41,876 --> 00:48:44,676
Speaker 1: find something to be a little bit grateful for that

926
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:46,996
Speaker 1: can feel big in the situation that James is in

927
00:48:47,076 --> 00:48:49,276
Speaker 1: right when it feels like everything is collapsing around you.

928
00:48:49,316 --> 00:48:50,956
Speaker 1: It's hard to be living in la in the midst

929
00:48:50,956 --> 00:48:52,676
Speaker 1: of these fires and be like, well, I'm grateful for

930
00:48:53,716 --> 00:48:57,436
Speaker 1: if that feels hard, choose a lighter version of that strategy.

931
00:48:58,076 --> 00:48:59,956
Speaker 1: Look for just something that's a little bit of a

932
00:48:59,996 --> 00:49:02,996
Speaker 1: delight in the world, like just a delight, something great.

933
00:49:03,676 --> 00:49:06,836
Speaker 1: This is a practice I heard from the writer Rosquee.

934
00:49:06,996 --> 00:49:08,876
Speaker 1: He has this lovely book called a Book of Delights,

935
00:49:08,916 --> 00:49:10,956
Speaker 1: where he decided every day he was just going to

936
00:49:10,996 --> 00:49:13,236
Speaker 1: go out and find some small wonder in the world

937
00:49:13,236 --> 00:49:15,596
Speaker 1: that delighted him. And they're tiny things like you see

938
00:49:15,636 --> 00:49:17,396
Speaker 1: somebody on the train and give each other a fist bump.

939
00:49:17,836 --> 00:49:19,996
Speaker 1: You walk into a cafe and it's playing El DeBarge

940
00:49:20,036 --> 00:49:21,476
Speaker 1: like Rhythm of the Night. It's just like a great

941
00:49:21,516 --> 00:49:24,476
Speaker 1: song and boss days like that's the delight, right, And

942
00:49:24,516 --> 00:49:27,876
Speaker 1: what it does is it allows him to train his

943
00:49:27,996 --> 00:49:30,396
Speaker 1: brain away from something that our brains do naturally, which

944
00:49:30,396 --> 00:49:33,636
Speaker 1: is what researchers call a negativity bias. We instantly notice

945
00:49:33,676 --> 00:49:35,716
Speaker 1: all the bad stuff. You scroll through your feed and

946
00:49:35,756 --> 00:49:38,516
Speaker 1: your brain is locked onto the bad information. But to

947
00:49:38,556 --> 00:49:40,796
Speaker 1: find the good stuff, to find the delights, you gotta

948
00:49:41,116 --> 00:49:42,836
Speaker 1: put a little energy into it. And when it becomes

949
00:49:42,876 --> 00:49:44,796
Speaker 1: a game, when you know you're sharing them with someone

950
00:49:44,796 --> 00:49:47,076
Speaker 1: else or writing them down, now all of a sudden

951
00:49:47,116 --> 00:49:49,876
Speaker 1: you find them a little bit more quickly. And one

952
00:49:49,916 --> 00:49:51,916
Speaker 1: of the reasons I love Ross's book is that he

953
00:49:51,956 --> 00:49:54,076
Speaker 1: actually shows that this power of delight can help you

954
00:49:54,116 --> 00:49:56,276
Speaker 1: fight all kinds of stuff in lots of ways. It's

955
00:49:56,276 --> 00:49:57,876
Speaker 1: a book that deals with a lot of the bad

956
00:49:57,916 --> 00:50:00,836
Speaker 1: stuff that's going on. It talks really explicitly about racism,

957
00:50:01,036 --> 00:50:04,356
Speaker 1: it talks really explicitly about cultures of violence and things

958
00:50:04,396 --> 00:50:07,636
Speaker 1: like that. But when you find the delights, you're able

959
00:50:07,716 --> 00:50:10,116
Speaker 1: to kind of get through it. You're kind of patting

960
00:50:10,196 --> 00:50:13,076
Speaker 1: yourself with some positive emotion to deal with the negative stuff.

961
00:50:13,436 --> 00:50:14,676
Speaker 1: And this is one of the reasons I think we

962
00:50:14,716 --> 00:50:16,596
Speaker 1: need to find our light a little bit more. Is

963
00:50:16,836 --> 00:50:18,636
Speaker 1: the other thing that research shows is that if we

964
00:50:18,716 --> 00:50:22,436
Speaker 1: want to make changes, we kind of need the emotional bandwidth.

965
00:50:21,876 --> 00:50:22,396
Speaker 5: To do that.

966
00:50:22,876 --> 00:50:24,996
Speaker 1: And one of the ways you do that is finding

967
00:50:25,036 --> 00:50:28,356
Speaker 1: your light right focusing on positive emotions. There is researcher

968
00:50:28,396 --> 00:50:30,876
Speaker 1: at Constantine kush Lef who works at Georgetown, and he

969
00:50:30,876 --> 00:50:33,276
Speaker 1: asked the question, who's out there doing the work to

970
00:50:33,276 --> 00:50:35,596
Speaker 1: solve the problems right, who's showing up at the protests,

971
00:50:35,796 --> 00:50:39,236
Speaker 1: who's engaging like climate justice? And what he measures is

972
00:50:39,236 --> 00:50:42,276
Speaker 1: people's positive emotion and he finds it. The more you

973
00:50:42,316 --> 00:50:45,956
Speaker 1: self report having more positive emotion versus negative emotion, the

974
00:50:45,956 --> 00:50:48,196
Speaker 1: more you're going out to that protest for a cause

975
00:50:48,236 --> 00:50:50,636
Speaker 1: you care about, the more you're donating to kind of

976
00:50:50,676 --> 00:50:52,596
Speaker 1: fix the things out there in the world. It's kind

977
00:50:52,636 --> 00:50:54,796
Speaker 1: of like putting your own oxygen mask on first, so

978
00:50:54,836 --> 00:50:56,876
Speaker 1: you can help others, but it's not just like others.

979
00:50:56,916 --> 00:50:59,796
Speaker 1: It's like helping the whole world. And so that pit

980
00:50:59,836 --> 00:51:01,916
Speaker 1: of research has helped me because sometimes it can feel

981
00:51:01,956 --> 00:51:04,476
Speaker 1: bad to not be hopeless in a hopeless world. Like

982
00:51:04,516 --> 00:51:06,196
Speaker 1: if you're going through what James is going through, it's

983
00:51:06,196 --> 00:51:08,516
Speaker 1: like should I experience delights? Should I get happy? Because

984
00:51:08,516 --> 00:51:09,956
Speaker 1: El Dubarge is on in this cafe?

985
00:51:09,996 --> 00:51:10,996
Speaker 5: It feels like weird.

986
00:51:11,516 --> 00:51:13,356
Speaker 1: But his research helps me because it's like, no, it's

987
00:51:13,356 --> 00:51:17,316
Speaker 1: almost your responsibility to find positive emotion because it actually

988
00:51:17,396 --> 00:51:20,116
Speaker 1: allows you to get towards the actions that can fix stuff.

989
00:51:20,676 --> 00:51:23,196
Speaker 4: All right, So for James, we've got five minutes for

990
00:51:23,276 --> 00:51:26,436
Speaker 4: some fakeaways, and that was a great place to start.

991
00:51:26,476 --> 00:51:32,076
Speaker 4: You find your light, all right, I'm looking toward Lori

992
00:51:32,756 --> 00:51:34,156
Speaker 4: for a couple of takeaways.

993
00:51:34,396 --> 00:51:36,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. I think a big one is

994
00:51:36,956 --> 00:51:40,756
Speaker 1: to notice how you feel when you're participating in the

995
00:51:40,796 --> 00:51:44,196
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven news cycle. Right, the news cycle

996
00:51:44,196 --> 00:51:46,756
Speaker 1: didn't used to be twenty four to seven. We all

997
00:51:46,756 --> 00:51:48,356
Speaker 1: probably remember there was the day when you get the

998
00:51:48,356 --> 00:51:51,276
Speaker 1: paper in the morning, you read it, you were very informed,

999
00:51:51,596 --> 00:51:53,516
Speaker 1: but you put that thing away, didn't walk around with

1000
00:51:53,516 --> 00:51:54,396
Speaker 1: you in your pocket.

1001
00:51:54,556 --> 00:51:54,796
Speaker 2: Right.

1002
00:51:55,316 --> 00:51:57,756
Speaker 1: I think there's you can probably be informed with like

1003
00:51:58,036 --> 00:52:01,436
Speaker 1: eighty percent less time on your phone, and you'll still

1004
00:52:01,476 --> 00:52:03,596
Speaker 1: know all the terrible things that are happening. I promise

1005
00:52:03,676 --> 00:52:05,796
Speaker 1: they'll still be covering them. You know, it'll be twenty

1006
00:52:05,796 --> 00:52:09,276
Speaker 1: three hours later, but just kind of give yourself a

1007
00:52:09,276 --> 00:52:12,156
Speaker 1: little bit of a break. Why information is good. You'll

1008
00:52:12,156 --> 00:52:14,556
Speaker 1: still have that, but you'll kind of protect your positive

1009
00:52:14,596 --> 00:52:16,756
Speaker 1: emotion a bit. I think the second one is just

1010
00:52:16,796 --> 00:52:19,356
Speaker 1: one that we've talked about already. Social connection. Reach out

1011
00:52:19,556 --> 00:52:21,636
Speaker 1: and try to help someone else every especially if you're

1012
00:52:21,636 --> 00:52:24,596
Speaker 1: feeling vulnerable, especially if you're feeling in a crummy place,

1013
00:52:24,716 --> 00:52:27,396
Speaker 1: Just ask what can I very small thing can I

1014
00:52:27,436 --> 00:52:30,116
Speaker 1: do for somebody else? For a friend, text them, just

1015
00:52:30,156 --> 00:52:33,316
Speaker 1: say hey, thinking about you donate three bucks or something whatever.

1016
00:52:33,356 --> 00:52:36,036
Speaker 1: You can finally afford a little tiny thing to a charity.

1017
00:52:36,436 --> 00:52:38,516
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, that will start making you feel

1018
00:52:38,516 --> 00:52:40,436
Speaker 1: good and you'll be doing good in the world.

1019
00:52:40,276 --> 00:52:47,916
Speaker 2: Too, And I absolutely thank you, and I just want

1020
00:52:47,916 --> 00:52:50,556
Speaker 2: to throw a mom hat kind of peace on there

1021
00:52:50,636 --> 00:52:53,916
Speaker 2: for James is that you know your physical health is

1022
00:52:54,396 --> 00:52:59,316
Speaker 2: directly tied to your emotional status. And I know, young people,

1023
00:52:59,636 --> 00:53:02,036
Speaker 2: you aren't at the point where you believe what we've

1024
00:53:02,036 --> 00:53:04,596
Speaker 2: been telling you that you gotta get sleep.

1025
00:53:05,076 --> 00:53:07,876
Speaker 3: You really do. It absolutely matters.

1026
00:53:07,956 --> 00:53:11,036
Speaker 2: You know why are old people but probably a little

1027
00:53:11,036 --> 00:53:13,636
Speaker 2: bit happier because I take a nap and I go

1028
00:53:14,556 --> 00:53:16,876
Speaker 2: I will go to bed, and I love nothing more

1029
00:53:16,956 --> 00:53:19,356
Speaker 2: than going to bed early. Now if you're in your twenties,

1030
00:53:19,516 --> 00:53:23,356
Speaker 2: that sounds really crazy, but you know it absolutely matters.

1031
00:53:23,396 --> 00:53:26,276
Speaker 2: And what you eat and whether you move your body.

1032
00:53:26,756 --> 00:53:29,876
Speaker 2: You know, we've got Lori here because like there is

1033
00:53:29,956 --> 00:53:31,316
Speaker 2: real evidence.

1034
00:53:30,836 --> 00:53:33,476
Speaker 3: We still live in a world where science matters.

1035
00:53:34,236 --> 00:53:35,996
Speaker 5: Well please please.

1036
00:53:37,516 --> 00:53:42,716
Speaker 2: As we wonder what is wrong, you know, and how

1037
00:53:42,756 --> 00:53:45,436
Speaker 2: we fix it. You know, we can't ignore the fact

1038
00:53:45,476 --> 00:53:49,156
Speaker 2: that they're really smart people who have done really important

1039
00:53:49,196 --> 00:53:51,476
Speaker 2: research to come up with the whys and to give

1040
00:53:51,556 --> 00:53:55,956
Speaker 2: us answers. So this stuff actually matters, and when you're

1041
00:53:56,076 --> 00:54:00,956
Speaker 2: sixty plus it all makes sense. And taking care of yourself,

1042
00:54:00,996 --> 00:54:04,756
Speaker 2: getting outside, making sure you get a little bit of

1043
00:54:04,796 --> 00:54:07,676
Speaker 2: fresh air, how you move your body, what you put

1044
00:54:07,756 --> 00:54:11,396
Speaker 2: in it matters. So if you're young and you you

1045
00:54:11,436 --> 00:54:14,116
Speaker 2: don't feel it yet, because when you're our age, you

1046
00:54:14,116 --> 00:54:18,076
Speaker 2: will feel it if you start some of those habits. Now,

1047
00:54:18,516 --> 00:54:21,236
Speaker 2: you know it doesn't change the world for sure, you

1048
00:54:21,316 --> 00:54:23,436
Speaker 2: know it is not it is.

1049
00:54:24,156 --> 00:54:25,476
Speaker 5: Voting still matters.

1050
00:54:28,436 --> 00:54:33,436
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, you know, not partying every night

1051
00:54:33,476 --> 00:54:35,876
Speaker 2: of the week and thinking that you're going to wake

1052
00:54:35,956 --> 00:54:38,796
Speaker 2: up in a good mood that helps too.

1053
00:54:39,156 --> 00:54:40,916
Speaker 1: But I think I think you're like, not only does

1054
00:54:40,956 --> 00:54:43,196
Speaker 1: it You said it doesn't matter if voting, it doesn't matter.

1055
00:54:43,236 --> 00:54:45,196
Speaker 1: For I think it does. Right, If you take care

1056
00:54:45,196 --> 00:54:47,636
Speaker 1: of your body, you're gonna be You're going to have

1057
00:54:47,716 --> 00:54:51,076
Speaker 1: the bandwidth and the resilience to fight, whether that's fighting

1058
00:54:51,156 --> 00:54:53,756
Speaker 1: at the voting booth or fighting in other ways. And

1059
00:54:54,196 --> 00:54:56,156
Speaker 1: you also channel something else that I have and talk

1060
00:54:56,156 --> 00:54:58,636
Speaker 1: to my students about. You mentioned. We mentioned gratitude, right,

1061
00:54:58,676 --> 00:55:01,556
Speaker 1: and gratitude is really changing your thought patterns. It's noticing

1062
00:55:01,596 --> 00:55:03,596
Speaker 1: the delightful stuff and trying to move away from the

1063
00:55:03,636 --> 00:55:05,716
Speaker 1: negative stuff. But there's other ways we can use our

1064
00:55:05,716 --> 00:55:07,676
Speaker 1: thought patterns to feel good. I think one of them

1065
00:55:07,756 --> 00:55:10,236
Speaker 1: is just thinking back right, getting a little bit of

1066
00:55:10,276 --> 00:55:14,676
Speaker 1: psychological distance. As Michelle said before, things have been bad before, right,

1067
00:55:14,756 --> 00:55:16,796
Speaker 1: and when you remember that, you're like, oh, we came

1068
00:55:16,836 --> 00:55:19,716
Speaker 1: back from it. We've come back from really awful stuff. Historically,

1069
00:55:19,836 --> 00:55:22,476
Speaker 1: especially if you look in long history, We've come back

1070
00:55:22,476 --> 00:55:25,436
Speaker 1: from really awful stuff. And what does remembering that do?

1071
00:55:25,796 --> 00:55:28,676
Speaker 1: It makes you realize, oh, things could be different even

1072
00:55:28,676 --> 00:55:31,156
Speaker 1: in a bad situation. I can see a path to

1073
00:55:31,236 --> 00:55:34,276
Speaker 1: something being better. What's that? That's hope, that's fighting your

1074
00:55:34,316 --> 00:55:35,396
Speaker 1: own cynicism right there.

1075
00:55:35,916 --> 00:55:39,316
Speaker 2: And one more thing, one more thing, one more thing,

1076
00:55:39,956 --> 00:55:43,356
Speaker 2: you know, for young people out there, I just encourage

1077
00:55:43,756 --> 00:55:48,076
Speaker 2: us all to sort of right size our happiness meter,

1078
00:55:48,356 --> 00:55:51,436
Speaker 2: yes you know, and take a little pressure off of

1079
00:55:51,476 --> 00:55:55,556
Speaker 2: ourselves and not to measure joy and happiness by the

1080
00:55:55,596 --> 00:55:59,756
Speaker 2: wrong things. And let me tell you, look, we are successful,

1081
00:55:59,836 --> 00:56:02,996
Speaker 2: we got degrees, we make money. There's nothing wrong with

1082
00:56:03,076 --> 00:56:06,716
Speaker 2: that at all. But it is I will guarantee you

1083
00:56:06,836 --> 00:56:10,956
Speaker 2: that having stuff or money, or all the things that

1084
00:56:11,076 --> 00:56:15,636
Speaker 2: right now seem to be so important, you know, extolling

1085
00:56:15,716 --> 00:56:18,716
Speaker 2: the virtues of how much stuff you get, and my

1086
00:56:18,916 --> 00:56:24,396
Speaker 2: experience that really truly is not the key to happiness

1087
00:56:24,756 --> 00:56:29,516
Speaker 2: and finding out what your purpose is. You know who

1088
00:56:29,596 --> 00:56:33,156
Speaker 2: you are helping and why over how much money you

1089
00:56:33,156 --> 00:56:36,396
Speaker 2: have in your bank account. You know, truly, I know

1090
00:56:36,516 --> 00:56:39,876
Speaker 2: a whole lot of these billionaires, and not all of them,

1091
00:56:39,916 --> 00:56:45,076
Speaker 2: as we can see, seem happy, you know, because that's

1092
00:56:45,196 --> 00:56:49,116
Speaker 2: not ultimately if that's your only goal is to have

1093
00:56:49,796 --> 00:56:52,676
Speaker 2: more than you need, to never be satisfied.

1094
00:56:53,036 --> 00:56:55,436
Speaker 3: If you get on that path and that's.

1095
00:56:55,236 --> 00:56:58,956
Speaker 2: What you're going after, you know, there will be a

1096
00:56:59,036 --> 00:57:02,596
Speaker 2: whole in your heart and it may feel like it's

1097
00:57:02,636 --> 00:57:07,236
Speaker 2: the world, but it may actually be our misguided sense

1098
00:57:07,276 --> 00:57:10,676
Speaker 2: of what it means to be human. And truly, what

1099
00:57:10,996 --> 00:57:13,716
Speaker 2: it means to be human isn't whether we get to

1100
00:57:13,836 --> 00:57:16,756
Speaker 2: space or how much money we have in our bank account.

1101
00:57:16,836 --> 00:57:19,996
Speaker 2: It's really how we treat each other. How do we

1102
00:57:20,076 --> 00:57:23,916
Speaker 2: make each other feel? How how do we you know,

1103
00:57:24,156 --> 00:57:28,196
Speaker 2: care for one another? You know, and I guarantee you

1104
00:57:28,276 --> 00:57:32,276
Speaker 2: if you spend your life doing that, you know, really

1105
00:57:32,356 --> 00:57:36,236
Speaker 2: reordering your steps to be that person in the world.

1106
00:57:36,996 --> 00:57:40,596
Speaker 3: I can tell you that's.

1107
00:57:40,356 --> 00:57:44,476
Speaker 2: What makes me feel better and hopeful, is directing my

1108
00:57:44,796 --> 00:57:48,756
Speaker 2: energy at a real purpose. So I would urge James

1109
00:57:48,796 --> 00:57:52,396
Speaker 2: to make sure he's driven by that and not by

1110
00:57:52,516 --> 00:57:56,516
Speaker 2: some other artificial goals that we've been told are important.

1111
00:57:58,476 --> 00:58:05,516
Speaker 4: It's a great point to end on me. Please help me.

1112
00:58:05,676 --> 00:58:08,196
Speaker 4: Thank doctor Lorie Santos.

1113
00:58:08,076 --> 00:58:10,356
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much.

1114
00:58:10,556 --> 00:58:11,436
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1115
00:58:12,876 --> 00:58:16,116
Speaker 4: As you can see, we do have a lot of opinions,

1116
00:58:16,116 --> 00:58:18,116
Speaker 4: and we could keep this thing going on and on,

1117
00:58:18,276 --> 00:58:20,036
Speaker 4: but listen and subscribe.

1118
00:58:20,116 --> 00:58:21,276
Speaker 5: Thank you all for being here.

1119
00:58:21,356 --> 00:58:22,076
Speaker 3: Thank you guys.

1120
00:58:23,116 --> 00:58:23,716
Speaker 5: Thanks Lori