1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much 3 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Today's a day where we talk not turkey, 4 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: but turtles. Uh. My name is Ben. There's this this 5 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: handsome guy who does this show with me. His name 6 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: is Noel Brown. And he was, uh, we were hanging 7 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: out off air earlier and he was a little bit, uh, 8 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: a little bit mad about his headphones. Today it was 9 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: a little bit miffed about my cam situation. Yeah, as 10 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: what we call it in the biz. Hands Um. Yeah. Yeah. 11 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: One thing, this is a word to the wise. Don't 12 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: ever have children, because they will take your stuff with 13 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: impunity and never return it. The look is its own story. 14 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm basically wearing the type of like little 15 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: crappy plastic headphones that would have come with like a 16 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: Sony discman, you know in the nineties. I feel like 17 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: I should be listening to like, you know, throwing copper 18 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: By Live right now in my in my ears, um, 19 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: but instead we're talking about turtles. Turtle power, soup power, 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: Turtle soup power. Remember the amazing pizza ad campaign of 21 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties where like the teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 22 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: were in a glam rock band and there was a 23 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: whole soundtrack that they made with songs about pizza and 24 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: being turtles. Am I the only one that is this 25 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: like a Mandela Effects situation. I actually don't remember this. 26 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: That's our super producer, Casey Pegram. I just remember they 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: had a song. It was like this anthemic song. It 28 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: was like where the tur Turtles? You can count on 29 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: us Mutant Ninja Turtles. It was sort of on the 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: like cusp of the eighties and like the Rising Tide 31 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: of the nineties, but it's still was very like hair metal. Uh, 32 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: look it up. There must be videos around. I would 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: say it's on the cusp of K pop as far 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: as the zeit guys, you know, the Turtles could have 35 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: been bts. Uh they're on the way. They were missing 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: maybe three members. Uh, you're giving yourself hard time. No, 37 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: you're saying these are not your cans, but your mock cans. 38 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: Uh right, Well, I mean they technically are. Can't there's 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: just substandard. But I love the word mock by the way, 40 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: I think it's it's got a nice ring to it, 41 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: and of course it means false counterfeit some sort of 42 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: stand in, but it doesn't necessarily imply poor quality. Wonderful point. Yeah, 43 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: today's episode is about a thing that may be weird 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: to a lot of people. Here we're talking about it 45 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: off air before we started rolling today. It's about turtle 46 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: soup and mock turtle suit. We've talked in the past 47 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: about the wildest things we have eaten, by which I 48 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: mean the most scrumptious things in violation of the soft 49 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: cultural taboos in the West. You know, you can eat 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: a pig, you cannot eat a cat. Right, you can 51 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: eat cow, you cannot eat a dog, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 52 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: Turtles are different, right, for a long long time, people 53 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: eight a lot of turtles. If you go back through 54 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: the menus of yesteryear in the United States, you will 55 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: see turtle soup offered as sort of a flex. You know. 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: It's like, now we're in a fancy place if we 57 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: see turtle soup on the menu, specifically sup It's strange, 58 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: isn't it that it no longer exists today? Like like 59 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: if you go to the fanciest restaurant in Atlanta, which 60 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: is universally acknowledged, check me on this guy's as a 61 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: restaurant named Bacchanalia. If you, guys are familiar good things, 62 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: never never had the had the pleasure. It's uh. It's 63 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: a nice place, it's a hefty place for your wallet. 64 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 1: But if you go even there, you will not see 65 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: turtle soup on the menu. So what happened? How did 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: this like, how did this become a phenomenon in the 67 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: world of cuisine? How did it become so popular? And 68 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: then why is it not as popular now? Yeah, I 69 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: actually just did a quick quick google wise turtle soup 70 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: not eating anymore? And you know the number one reason 71 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: is uh, probably the obvious one. Many species of turtles 72 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: are endangered. Um. And it turns out that the species 73 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: of turtles that were most popular were ones that today 74 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: would be considered uh on the endangered list, like the 75 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: Chelonia midas or the green sea turtle of the Caribbean, 76 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: which could weigh up to a hundred pounds. In England 77 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 1: in particular, in the mid seventeen hundreds, you would see 78 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: this dish on tavern menus. But it would have been, 79 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: like you said, men a bit of a flex. It 80 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: would have been up there with some of the most 81 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: expensive and kind of rarefied items even at you know, 82 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: a local tavern or a pub um because they had 83 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: to be freshly caught. Right. There was no shipping frozen 84 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: turtles all the way from the Caribbean to London because 85 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: at the time, of course, refrigeration was not it's a thing, 86 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: at least to the degree that it is now. Certainly 87 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: they could keep things on ice, but these turtles had 88 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: to be shipped alive and and kept in these special tanks. Uh. 89 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: Kind of like lobsters at the grocery store, only much 90 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: larger because again these were hundred pound creatures. Um. And 91 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: the soup itself was also made with some pretty fancy 92 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: ingredients like Madeira wine. That was kind of a simmered 93 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: broth where that was the base and then it was 94 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: seasoned with cayenne peppers and anchovies. So the whole thing 95 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: could often take like half a day to make, almost 96 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: like the way uh really fine raman broth takes a 97 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: really long time to make that like bone broth, you know, 98 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 1: you see the the experts or for fun, it really 99 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: does take a lot to make that broth. Um. Thankfully, 100 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: fu and ramen are are still relatively affordable. Oh yes, yes, 101 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: you make an excellent point here in u there was 102 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: no refrigeration. This was like ordering crab legs at a 103 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: restaurant in terms of dollar value. Right, this is the 104 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: most expensive thing on the menu. You take out your 105 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: deity one to impress them. You say, order whatever you want, 106 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: and then your date looks askance and you say, yes, 107 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: even the turtle soup for you, my darling, anything You 108 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: really loved me enough to let me eat this weird, 109 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: scaly broth based dish, right right, that's that's one of 110 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: the questions. Will explore why soup? Why? Why is it 111 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: soup rather than turtle freakacy? You know what I mean? 112 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: Fileto turtle? Right there we go. Yes, so we have 113 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: to wonder how did these turtles come to be shipped 114 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: to England in the first place. As written in Culinary Lore, 115 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: one of the explanations is that turtles provided protein during 116 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: sea voyages. Right. It's it's very easy to find, or 117 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: it was back in the day. Very easy need to find, 118 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: catch and eat them. And as any kid who has 119 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: ever had a box turtle as a pet knows, turtles 120 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: are very easy to capture and keep alive, so they're 121 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: not like fish. You don't have to have an aquarium, 122 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: just have a little standing water and your turtle friend 123 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: can splash around and live their turtle life around the 124 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: sailors who will later consume it. So they carried it 125 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: all the way back to Europe, and then people were 126 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: like royalty aristocrats and so on, said, what's the most 127 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: impressive thing you found in your travels and your adventures 128 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: to the west. And they would say, well, we found 129 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: this weird thing. It's like a snake, but it's got 130 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: a it's got the shell. Uh, here you go. And 131 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: I said, what do you do with them? And they said, 132 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: we eat them. Yeah, crack them open and and and 133 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: eat them up, because again, remember these are very large uh. 134 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, sea voyages were very long and arduous, 135 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: and um was hard to keep fresh meat and fresh 136 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: supplies on the ship. Typically it was like salted meats 137 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: or dried you know, fruits and things like that that 138 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: could be preserved and you know, not spoiled during the 139 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: long uh trips to see but they could kind of 140 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: keep this as fresh meat on hand. Um, and it 141 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: was probably one of the tastier options. You hear stories 142 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: of like uh, seafaring folk Uh, you know, sailors and whatnot, 143 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: like catching like albatrosses and seabirds and things like that, 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: and they're apparently just really gamy and disgusting and not 145 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: pleasant at all. And you know, I have not had 146 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: turtle soup personally, but for some reason, I'm picturing it 147 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: maybe tasting a little bit like alligator meat, only because 148 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: of the consistency of their scales and their skin and whatnot. Um, 149 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: so I would argue that the turtle was the original 150 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: chicken of the sea. There we go. I think I 151 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: think you earned that one. The thing is, you know, 152 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: the albatross is a terrible bird to kill. In the 153 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: world of sailor and maritime superstitions. We should absolutely do 154 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: an episode on maritime superstitions because it's good. It's gonna 155 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: be a two parter, it has to be. Uh, turtles 156 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: can be kept alive. They don't really have the means 157 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: to wander off once you get them on the ship. Right. 158 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: You may wonder, folks, how turtles became so so very popular. 159 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: As we said, it's because they were specifically Chelonia midas 160 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: green sea turtles. They can weigh up to a hundred pounds, right, 161 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: the size of a dog and the size of a 162 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: large dog. I guess I should say, Casey, what's the 163 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: average size of a dog in your opinion? Oh jeez, 164 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: the average size of a dog. Don't google it is 165 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: a hundred pounds a big dog. That's a big dog. 166 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: That's a big dog. Okay, Casey on the case. These 167 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: turtles are the size of a Casey verified large dog 168 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: and at their peak, as far as their soup career, 169 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: these turtles, the specific green seed turtles were being shipped 170 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: live from the West Indies at a rate of fifteen 171 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: thousand per year shipped live. So at some point there 172 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: was a ship that just went from England to the 173 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: Indies to get turtles. No way, right, no way, they 174 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: were doing other stuff. Surely there wasn't just a turtle trade, 175 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: was there. Average size by the punds is a big 176 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: gass dog always coming through Casey on the case A 177 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: second time turtle trade. I mean yeah, I would say 178 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand live turtles being shipped from the West Indies 179 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: a year would constitute its own trade. That's a lot 180 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: of live turtles. But you know a lot of things 181 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: were being shipped back and forth on those routes, so 182 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: it was just kind of part of the party, I think. Um, 183 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: but it's because the stuff really really was catching on, 184 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: because you know, when the sailors brought the turtles back 185 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: and the royals started, they started getting a taste for it, 186 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: started getting a taste uh, and they actually felt or 187 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: culinarily speaking, um, this is the answer to my question. Uh. 188 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: They believed that turtles contain seven distinct different types of 189 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: meat all in one package. Um, each have having their 190 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: own unique yet also um you know uh analogous flavor uh, 191 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: something akin to pork and chicken and beef and shrimp 192 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: and veal and fish and goats. Um, depending on the 193 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: type of turtle or the part of the turtle. I'm 194 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: not a cent sure. This is blowing my mind. Um. 195 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: And then that that's coming from people who were really 196 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: into the stuff, who got that taste and I was 197 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: talking about. Then there are some folks did not buy in. 198 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: They describe the flavor as being dirty, mushy, chewy. To 199 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: be fair, these are more textures than flavors, uh and muddy. Yeah, 200 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing. You know. You hear this sometimes with 201 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: people who eat shark or eat catfish. Right, they'll say, oh, uh, 202 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: this taste of the things this has eaten. One note 203 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: here there are a lot of people who will tell 204 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: you not to eat a large catfish, the reasoning being 205 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: that one can only eat so much garbage before one 206 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: becomes a thing. The taste of garbage. Oh yeah, and 207 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: let's all be real. I mean, if we've ever seen 208 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: turtles in the wild, chances are they're nibbling on something 209 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: slimy and gross. I had two pet turtles. They were wonderful. 210 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: I let both of them go free in a Harry 211 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: and the Henderson's moment. I also want to point out 212 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: that while the turtle trade was at its height, at 213 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: its peak, uh, the Atlantic slave trade was occurring. So 214 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: this this happens within that context, right, and the qualities, 215 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: as they were called at the time, what would become 216 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: the United States. Of course, they looked over and they said, 217 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: look at this, just down the maritime street from us. 218 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: The king and all the King's men are taking these 219 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: amazing turtles. They taste of seven different distinct types of meat, 220 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: and we're not allowed to have those. That's too fancy 221 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: for us, apparently. And they also got into it the 222 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: the American colonists of the time, we should also mention, 223 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: of course, this was not a new thing to the 224 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: people who actually lived in the places that would become 225 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: called the Caribbean and the United States. People totally ate turtles. 226 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: They didn't think it was a necessarily super fancy thing. 227 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: You know, they didn't idealize or fetishize it the same 228 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: way that perhaps the Europeans did. Uh. If Casey nol 229 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: you and I went to the early US colonies, we 230 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: would be eating turtles. We would not be eating the 231 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: big fancy Caribbean turtles. Probably we would be eating snapping turtles, 232 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: which are super gross looking creatures. I don't know if 233 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: that if have you guys seen one of these in person? Yeah, 234 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: back to the Ninja Turtles movie, Uh, Ninja Turtles too, 235 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Secret of the Ooze. You may recall the large mutated 236 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: snapping turtle that was I think paired with some sort 237 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: of werewolf esque creature. That was the They were the 238 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: batties in that movie. Tell you Bebop and rock Steady 239 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, the names. Yeah, but there was 240 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: a snapping turtle and then like a wolf kind of 241 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: creature and they were they were shredders, minions and and 242 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: and Ninja turtles too. Secret of the ooze. But yeah, 243 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: that started off as a little baby snap and turtle 244 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: because they have sort of more of a triangular pointy 245 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: beak situation and they really will take off a finger 246 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: if you're not careful. But that didn't stop intrepid early 247 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: American settlers in Plymouth Colony. Uh, you would even see 248 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: them eating the turtles eggs. And nothing pisces off a 249 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: mama snapping turtle more than you're trying to steal her eggs. 250 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: In fact, there's conject sure that turtle soup of some 251 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: kind might have or would likely have been on the 252 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: menu at the very first Thanksgiving um. But they you know, 253 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been as fancy as as the version that 254 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: we were talking about from England. It would have been 255 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: a more simplified kind of version because of what they 256 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: had at their disposal. By the Revolutionary War times, turtle 257 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: soup was a staple, an absolute favorite. You'd see it 258 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: in cookbooks across the country. And that's how you know 259 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: something's really broken through is when you start seeing recipes 260 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: for it and like, you know, the Hinz Family cookbook 261 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: or whatever, Toca and that's it. That's it. Toca was 262 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: the wolf guy Razzolator was the was the snapper. Alligator 263 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: snapping turtle was crazy. I am a bit sad. Admittedly, 264 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: alligator snapping turtles are vulnerable species. You're absolutely right they 265 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: may have been eating turtle soup in some form of Thanksgiving. 266 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: It did not have tomatoes, it did not have shary, 267 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: it was not fancy. All the early colonists agreed that 268 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: the flavor, however, was scrump dittally umptuous. There's nothing like 269 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: a good turtle soup, and the colonists began to identify 270 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: this with the concept of democracy. How weird is that? 271 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: You know? It's right, it's not. It's not difficult to 272 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: hunt a turtle, unfortunately, apologies to any turtles in the audience. 273 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: Your evasion skills are your dump stat You could find 274 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: turtles hanging out in your neck of the woods, whether 275 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: you were wealthy or whether you were poor, and you 276 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: will find in the historical record many many famous, like 277 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: influential early US figures who were super into turtle soup. 278 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: They loved it, and need to backtrack ever so slightly. Ben, 279 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: I love this idea of catching a turtle representing democracy, 280 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: and I see why now, because it's the great equalizer. 281 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: You know, to catch a fox, he gotta have fancy hounds. 282 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: You know, to do a rabbit hunt or something, you 283 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: have to have like specialty gear and like a whole 284 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: crew and all of that and horses and all that 285 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: whatever that stuff. Turtle you can just catch one in 286 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: your backyard. Little kids can catch turtles. I have there 287 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: for everybody, including John Adams, who, upon voting for independence 288 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia on July four a, seventeen seventies six, celebrated 289 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: with a steaming, piping hot bowl of turtle soup and 290 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: George Washington. When the war, the Revolutionary War was over, 291 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: he met with his officers at France's tavern in Manhattan, 292 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: which was famously personified with a freestyle rap battle in 293 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: the musical Hamilton's Uh for a you know this little 294 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: soare uh presumably with some with some turtle soup, and 295 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: also before Aaron Burr also featured in Hamilton's Murdered the 296 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: Titular Hamilton's. Both were members of something called the Hoboken 297 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: Turtle Club, where members would kick it and eat turtle 298 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: soup with boiled eggs and brandy. Okay, I can't go 299 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: with them all the way I'm not anti boiled egg. 300 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical of the contribution of boiled egg can make 301 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: to a good bowl of turtle soup. It is a 302 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: real thing. The Hoboken Turtle Club is the brainchild of 303 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: a former captain serving under George Washington, a guy named 304 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: John Stevens. He got super rich through real estate and 305 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: various inventions, most notably a screw driven steamboat. Uh. He 306 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: was super into turtles because he wanted to eliminate their population. 307 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: I also love the idea, like that's the thing people have, 308 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: these weirdly specific clubs and extra curricular activities. Like if 309 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: you guys started a weirdly specific club about food, Noel, 310 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: would you have one immediately? Do you have one that 311 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: you can think of immediately? Like this is Noel Brown's 312 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: weirdly specific food club. You know. Um, when I was 313 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: a kid, when I was once a young German boy 314 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: growing up in in Germany, UM, I was a huge 315 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: fan of scargo, which is kind of a weird one 316 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: for a little kid, but you know, my parents were 317 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: into it. I liked it. My mom always you know, 318 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: never let the facts and the way of a good 319 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: story and says, know you and you were a small 320 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: German boy, you ate you'll wait and escar go up 321 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: and down the German countryside, because that's how she talks, 322 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: because she's an heiress of sorts. But maybe I would have. 323 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: And then the Noel Brown Scargo Society because it's not 324 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: something people talk about much anymore. And uh, I think 325 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: it's a bad rap. I like the texture, it's chewy, 326 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: it's got a nice ummmy to it, and it's just 327 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: a great vehicle for garlic and garlic butter. It's sunctious. 328 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: What about you, Casey? Okay. One one real life eccentricity 329 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: of mine is that when I was a kid, I 330 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: enjoyed a delicacy known as a mustard sandwich, which was 331 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: a sandwich with mustard and nothing else. And this was 332 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: met with a great deal of consternation by a kindergarten 333 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: teacher of mine Casey's Mustard Sandwich Club. I don't know 334 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: if I'll just kind of lurk. I don't know if 335 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: I want to be an inducted, but I'm interested to 336 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: see what goes on behind those closed doors. I have to. 337 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: I have to fess up, like I have not myself 338 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: been a member in a number of years. So um, 339 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: no hard feelings if you're if you're not looking to join, No, Well, 340 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: taste evolve over time. You know, you may have been 341 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: ahead of the curve because I've read several studies showing 342 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: that people in younger years prefer ketchup, and as the 343 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: age into adulthood, prefer mustard if they had to choose. 344 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: Nothing like this is happening with turtles. People are all 345 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: on board. In the US. They're like, man, you know 346 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: what's awesome turtle soup. William Howard Taft is like he's 347 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: asked about what his favorite meal is and he says 348 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: turtle soup is one of his top tens. And he 349 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: also says he chose the chef of the White House 350 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: based primarily on the guy's ability to cook turtle in 351 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: any form. And we have to mention again, Remember I 352 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: I I said that this was occurring during the slave trade, 353 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: right during the Middle Passage, when there were vast, systemic, 354 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: unforgivable atrocities against human beings. Right, you may not be 355 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: surprised to find fellow ridiculous as storians that wealthy Southerners 356 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: loved turtle soup. Of course, turtles were were, and hopefully 357 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: will still be abundant in the south. The plantation owning 358 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: class picture the mint julup and the sear sucker suit. 359 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: Every so often they said, ma, this parishian heat, we 360 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: should throw a turtle frolic. That's what they call them. 361 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: They had these parties they called the turtle frolics. That 362 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: sounds fun, it does if you're not there at the time, 363 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: because again, this is this is terrible, terrible stuff is 364 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: man's in humanity demand. But the turtle frolic itself is wild. 365 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: They would have these turtle shells. These were the Caribbean turtles, 366 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: by the way, the ones that are over a hundred pounds. Uh. 367 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: They would have these three ft long shells that were 368 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: turned upside down as bulls for the turtle soup. You know, 369 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: have you ever seen the inside of a turtle shell. 370 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: It's it's got it's kind of like where the spine 371 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: is fused to the shell and there's it's it's a 372 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: little macabre if you think about it now. I mean, 373 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: I guess you know, eating an animal directly out of 374 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: its shell is always going to be a little on 375 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: the grizzly side if you think about it enough. But yeah, 376 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: lit Graham, but moving on from the turtle frolic. In 377 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: America in the eighteen sixties, turtle soup for turtle meat 378 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: was considered like a very special occasion related delicacy. Abraham 379 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: Lincoln Um at least was personally responsible for pushing for 380 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: this narrative after his second inauguration in eighteen sixty five. 381 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: The inaugural meal began with a course of turtle uh 382 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: likely oiled in a stew with cream and butter and eggs, 383 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: so more like a uh like if you've ever had 384 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: oyster stew, which I quite like. My mom makes it 385 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: for Christmas every year. It's sort of a tradition, but 386 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: it is sort of a creamy buttery. You could put 387 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: a little sherry in there, or like maybe she crab soup. 388 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: That's kind of what this reminds me of. I could 389 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: go for that, And I'm imagining the turtle meat would 390 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: be minced, so you wouldn't be getting like big, old, weird, 391 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: recognizable chunks of turtle. One would hope. I'm intrigued, you know, 392 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: aside from the endangered element of this, I would certainly 393 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 1: be game to give this type of version of this 394 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: dish a taste. But only folks like you know, the president. Yeah, 395 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: I could have could afford this as a special occasion 396 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: for their inaugural. That's because they were becoming much more rare. 397 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if it was because there was just 398 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: a run on these turtles, you know. And also remember, 399 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: as I want to point out to remember, how we 400 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: talked about how Charles Darwin supposedly eight every animal that 401 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: he studied. Yes, Jack O'Brien from dally Zeitgeist introduced us 402 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: to that troubling in corroborative fact. I looked into it. 403 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: Jack was right because he was a part of a 404 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: society too that just like eight weird animals. If I'm 405 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: not mistaken, it's called Boland society. That's the one. But 406 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: here's the thing, Uh, despite the scarcity of of these 407 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: uh succulent reptiles, folks still wanted their turtle soup, or 408 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: at very least something resembling it. So that's when I 409 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: don't know who figured it out, who coined this, but 410 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: that's when something called mock turtle soup started to come 411 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: into fashion as an alternative. Yes, yes, very similitude the 412 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: appearance of being true or real. Um, before we get 413 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: into this. I want everyone listening to day to think 414 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: a little bit about stuff like crab rangoon. How much 415 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: crab do you think is in that fans of American 416 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: Chinese food and a negligible amount. I mean, god, it's 417 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: like zero a fleck, you know. Zero. The thing is like, 418 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: we have imitation crab, we have we have a lot 419 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: of things that I would say are aspirational in terms 420 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: of flavor. You're totally right, and yet people like some 421 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: of them for their own reasons, like imitation crab has 422 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: it has a thing about it like you can't really 423 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: get it anywhere else, doesn't really taste like crab. It 424 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: kind of looks like crab. It's just I don't even 425 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: know what we've we've talked about it. I think it 426 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: contains other fish, like halibit that's like pressed and has 427 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: food coloring to give it the appearance of the little 428 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: red parts of the crab. But it's also very low calorie, uh, 429 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: and so a lot of people like eating it, like 430 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: in a diet situation. And it's also what you always 431 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: get on the inside of like a cheap kind of 432 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: California roll right right there. And for example, there are 433 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: sometimes I prefer to cook with imitation crab, depending on 434 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: the stack I'm making. If anything, the name imitation crab 435 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: is bad marketing. They just should have sold it as 436 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: its own thing. What do you call it, though, Ben, 437 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: let's have a quick brainstorm. Sessh, it would be a 438 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: good alternative name. Imitation crab, fish, press pressed fish, fish, butter, 439 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: fish butter. I'm into that. Fish butter is weird. It's 440 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: not quite there. It's a little weird. But but let's 441 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: get there. I think we're nailing that. Umami. They also 442 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: call it crab stick sometimes crab stick. Yeah, but it's 443 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: imitation crab stick. Yeah. So anyway, turtles, right, uh So, 444 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: not everybody as the president in the United States, a 445 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: problem that continues to the modern day. There are more 446 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: than three hundred and twenty million people in the US 447 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: who are not currently the president. We had a we 448 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: had a recent new addition to our ranks. Uh So, 449 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: if you are, like most people, not the president of 450 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: the United States, you cannot afford to eat turtle. It's 451 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: expensive because in some parts of the country. Again to 452 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: our earlier point, there is no refrigeration. In some parts 453 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: of the country, you can't get turtles. So you might 454 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: eat the next best thing, mock turtle soup. And and 455 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: let's let's make sure everybody feels their self worth their value. 456 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: Don't think these other people are fancier than you are. 457 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: At Abraham Lincoln's first inauguration, they did not serve turtle soup. 458 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: They served mock turtle soup because they couldn't get those 459 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: turtles from the Caribbean that were considered, you know, the 460 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: def acto ingredient for turtle soup. But everybody at the inauguration, 461 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: they're still super happy. They thought mock turtle soup was 462 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: not a joke but kind of a comparable delicacy. Right. 463 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: It's it's like the Ikea furniture of turtle soup. Okay, 464 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: so what is it? Uh? This is adorable question. We 465 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: pretty much know what it is. Uh. And it's pretty gross, 466 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: isn't it. It's not it's not like super wholesome, but 467 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: it is. It's definitely a thing. Why don't kick it 468 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: for us? It's just like where you put all your 469 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: leftover meat parts, um, but it also contains other bits 470 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: to give it like a little more flavor. It's really 471 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: kind of all over the place. The real gross one, 472 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: the common ingredients or like the secret ingredient is a 473 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: calf's head. I'm assuming just boiled in there, like so 474 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: the skin kind of sloughs off and to and then 475 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: they take the skull out. I wouldn't imagine you get 476 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: your mock turtle soup with a fully formed cow calf 477 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: skull in there. What a huge turtle? Is this? Like kingcake? 478 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: I got the baby? Oh yeah, but they would add 479 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: things like beef, ham, veggies, oysters, uh, skin, tongue, brain, 480 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: and and and because they were trying to mimic. And 481 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: we haven't really uh fully explained this, but texture is 482 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: a really important part of the mock turtle experience because 483 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: turtle meat, as it turns out, is quite gelatinous um. 484 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: And in order to achieve that, you'd have boiled various 485 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: boiled meats. And again I can imagine that all of 486 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: the collagen and things that would be that would would 487 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: come off when you boiled the calf's head would make 488 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: for quite a gelatinous texture. Indeed. Yeah, and part of 489 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: the creation of mock turtle soup depends on the rendering 490 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: of this fat right in in the calf's head. Uh. Look, 491 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: other people are making their own turtle soup at home 492 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: or mock turtle soup. And you can see recipes about 493 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: this uh anywhere from two on maybe a little bit earlier. 494 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: Current companies and the modern day here in also had 495 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: canned turtle soup. Once upon a time, Hinz had turtle soup, 496 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: Campbell's had turtle soup and mocked turtle soup made of 497 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: that calf's head. And they were advertising this toward a 498 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: demographic that could not afford that beautiful, unctious, weird flex 499 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: turtle soup. Here's why they were doing this. Most people 500 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: couldn't deal with the process saying of the turtle that 501 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: would be made for proper turtle soup. They would get 502 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: a turtle that was fifty sixty pounds maybe more. They 503 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: had to kill it. They had to cut off the head. 504 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: They had to hang it by its hind legs, its 505 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: hind fins excuse me overnight to drain. They had to 506 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: cut the fins off. They had to separate the upper 507 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: and lower shell from the flesh it was. It was involved. 508 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: Then they had to clean it. They had to get 509 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: rid of the innards. They had to preserve what they 510 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: called the green fat. And this is what renders when 511 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: you're cooking is what gives it that unctious flavor. This 512 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: is why it's the calf's whole head. And then after 513 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: after you prepared this, the soup, depending on the recipe 514 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: you take, is super complicated, super complicated. It takes hours 515 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: and hours and hours. I'm not walking away from that. 516 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: Putton super is appropriate here and it's hilarious. These turtles 517 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: themselves are very expensive, and they become more and more 518 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: expensive because, just like the fur trade around this time, 519 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 1: it's not sustainable. They're taking too much from the land 520 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: and green turtles as a result are almost hunted to extinction, 521 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: which makes the price higher and higher and higher. We 522 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: got a feedback loop at this point. Okay, okay, there's 523 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: so much more turtle discussions to be had, but I 524 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: think we're gonna put a pin in this one until 525 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: next time. UM, thank you so much, Ben for all 526 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: of the amazing turtle talk. Is going to be more 527 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: to come, Noel, thank you, and thanks to super producer 528 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrham. Thanks to our research associate, our number one 529 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: teenage ninja turtle, Gabe. Hey Nold, what what ninja turtle 530 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: do you think Gabe would be? If we had to guess, Oh, 531 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: he's the smart one. What was that Leonardo? No Donna? Yeah, 532 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: I always Leonardo was the leader. I guess Donna Tello 533 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: was the science. He one right, he had the lab 534 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: I think gave would be that one gave. You know 535 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: what Gave is like a vultron asked kind of figure. 536 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: He's like all of the ninja turtles rolled into the one. 537 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: He's the wit of Michael Angelo, the braun and brave 538 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: of of of Raphael. You know, the leadership qualities of 539 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: Leonardo and the intellect of Donna Tello all rolled up 540 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: into one admittedly non turtle creature. And thanks as always 541 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: to our own. Uh. I don't know whether he's a 542 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: Taca or a razor, but Jonathan strictly a k the quizier. 543 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: He's more of a super shredder kind of figure there. 544 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: It is the secret of the ooze. Uh, thanks as 545 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: well to Christopher Hasiotis, uh Eves, Jeff co and uh Noel. 546 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: Thank you to you man. This has been a crazy ride. 547 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: We ended up with another two parter um. We did, indeed, 548 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: And if you want to tell us how you feel 549 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: about this one, I drop us a note. On social 550 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: media you can find us on Facebook, where we have 551 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: a group called the List Historians. Great conversations and means 552 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: sharing and all the good stuff there to be had 553 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: at your fingertips. You can also find us as a 554 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: show or as individuals on social media's as well. I 555 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: am on Instagram pretty much exclusively where I am at 556 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 1: how Now, Noel Brown? How about you? Man? You can 557 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: send me turtle recipes directly at Ben Bullying hs W 558 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter or at Ben Bullying on Instagram. We'll see 559 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 560 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 561 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.