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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you with a

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Speaker 1: very hot take on one of our favorite shows that

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Speaker 1: we have been watching together.

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Speaker 2: I'm calling this a playbook.

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Speaker 3: Okay, can fans get cast on reality shows?

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Speaker 1: Which is this is a very You and I have

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Speaker 1: been talking about this a lot.

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Speaker 3: I think this affected your career on the show, on

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Speaker 3: The Bachelor itself for years because in recent years.

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Speaker 2: The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 3: Finale and reunion reunion Part one aired this week, and

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Speaker 3: if you're not caught up, here's the long story short.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the most explosive.

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Speaker 3: Finales in Real Housewives franchise history because it came out

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Speaker 3: that one of the women, a new cast member, had

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Speaker 3: spent the last three years secretly running an Instagram account

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Speaker 3: that reported quote unquote news.

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Speaker 2: On these women.

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Speaker 1: Fan account essentially deep account.

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Speaker 3: It was like a shady fan account though, where she

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Speaker 3: kind of like she was they were trying to expose

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Speaker 3: the women. They were posting videos of them, recordings of them,

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Speaker 3: reposting news.

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Speaker 2: Of them stuff. Yeah, And so then she applies to

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Speaker 2: be on the.

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Speaker 3: Show and she makes it on the show, and now

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Speaker 3: she's a housewife. She's gone from secret fan news, shady

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Speaker 3: Instagram account to housewife. So there's kind of this interesting

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Speaker 3: discourse now of like, you know, it delivered one of

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Speaker 3: the greatest finales ever because what a reveal that this

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Speaker 3: woman who the other women thought was their friend and

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Speaker 3: their equal was actually running this Instagram account. But is

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Speaker 3: this going to set a dangerous precedent of you know,

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Speaker 3: quote unquote anyone can get on these shows, a fan

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Speaker 3: can become a housewife, especially in the world of housewives,

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Speaker 3: where part of it is traditionally that there's some kind

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Speaker 3: of prestige that you're like, I mean, the way the

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Speaker 3: show started.

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Speaker 2: Was behind the gated community.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are these rich women and what kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, aspirational but dramatic lives are they leading,

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me just get right to the point. There

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Speaker 1: is no precedent. Well maybe there is a precedent, but

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Speaker 1: the precedent is you're all fans. You all watched the

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Speaker 1: show at one point, except for the original ogs maybe

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Speaker 1: what was that Orange County everybody has fifteen years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody has seen the show. So we did this on

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Speaker 1: the Bachelor. I think it was a paradise. We decided,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're trying to shake things up and be different.

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Speaker 1: We brought quote unquote fans.

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Speaker 3: On ass contestant Oh I don't remember, yes, and did

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Speaker 3: every Well, obviously everybody knew these are just the Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was like, who are these people. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I just watched the show and I wrote in and

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Speaker 1: so we made it. We made a thing of it,

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Speaker 1: and it was really funny how it was this us

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Speaker 1: against them thing. They're not one of us, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they are. Man, It's like you, like three months ago,

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Speaker 1: this was you. You were just watching the show. We

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Speaker 1: called you out and said, hey, do you want to

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Speaker 1: be on the Bachelor Bacherette. Now you are part of

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Speaker 1: the Bachelor family. But like six months ago, nobody knew

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Speaker 1: who you were. You were just Bob from Illinois. But now,

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Speaker 1: just what we did was we made a big deal

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Speaker 1: of these are fans of the show. You are specifically

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Speaker 1: here because you were a fan, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: very interesting now. I will also say one hundred percent,

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Speaker 1: these producers of the Real Housewives knew about this account,

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Speaker 1: knew this person was a part of this and set

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Speaker 1: this whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Up there that they didn't. You don't believe.

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Speaker 1: No chance in hell these producers didn't know this. Zero chance,

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Speaker 1: what's below zero? No way in hell these producers didn't

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Speaker 1: know this person was had this account.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you, because okay, here's what's I don't

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Speaker 3: want to get conced. I don't want to get anyone confused.

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Speaker 3: But she first came on the show because she'd been

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Speaker 3: an assistant to that woman jen Shaw, who like was

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Speaker 3: literally arrested and is in jail right now. And apparently

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Speaker 3: she applied with that. Now, that would certainly get my

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Speaker 3: attention as a producer. Is good enough, that's a great connection.

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Speaker 3: But now it's come out that apparently jen Shaw at

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Speaker 3: some point had like named her in one of her

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Speaker 3: legal documents and I think accused her of being this account.

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Speaker 3: So that makes me think there's no way these producers didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, come on, come, we know better.

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Speaker 1: I know better.

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Speaker 2: I know for if you're on a relationship, By the.

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Speaker 1: Way, kudos to them for doing that. That is brilliant producing.

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Speaker 2: And if you're on a reality show, you're being produced.

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Speaker 3: You guys, like if you're a housewife or if you're

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Speaker 3: a member of you're on the Batch or whatever show

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Speaker 3: you're on. I'm not saying the producers are only out

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Speaker 3: to get you, but you're being produced. Of course, the

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Speaker 3: producers are probably going to say to the other Housewives,

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Speaker 3: we had no idea.

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Speaker 2: We are just as shocked as you are now.

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Speaker 1: The Housewives did not know. I do know that they

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Speaker 1: would not have told the other Housewives because they do

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Speaker 1: want that to come out on air. If they're not

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Speaker 1: getting the hint and they're not figuring it out, maybe

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Speaker 1: they're going to overhear a conversation. Maybe a producer might

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Speaker 1: hint at something because you got to put sometimes you

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Speaker 1: got to just get that snowball just over the edge,

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Speaker 1: so it starts rolling on its own. But The Housewives

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Speaker 1: is a very heavily produced show, and I am not

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Speaker 1: at all I'm in. I love the show, so I'm

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Speaker 1: a fan, but I you know, when I watch it

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Speaker 1: with you, what is produced? Are you know? They're not?

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Speaker 1: They don't have a ski shela set up. They don't

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't have the bar set up, they

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Speaker 1: don't have a trip to Palm Spring set up. All

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Speaker 1: that is produced.

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Speaker 3: They know what you pointed out to me was the

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Speaker 3: game thing. Yeah, because it's like they have this trope

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Speaker 3: where the you know, one of the women will be like,

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Speaker 3: let's play a game who do you trust the least

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Speaker 3: here and the most? And I'm like, god, why are

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Speaker 3: they doing this? And Chris go'sa a producer, just suggested

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Speaker 3: that game to her.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, they pulled Lauren aside and they said, hey, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: let's do a snowball fight. Like remember, get there. It's like,

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Speaker 1: of course, nobody's ever going to do that. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is all very produced. We do that on the

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Speaker 1: on the show. We did it for forever because you

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Speaker 1: got to have something to do fully my story and

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Speaker 1: what happens within that is the genius of these women.

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Speaker 1: That is the reality and so that is the brilliance

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Speaker 1: of the show. And I do again, I'm a fan

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Speaker 1: of the show.

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Speaker 3: But I fully agree with you that everyone's a fan.

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Speaker 3: Like I honestly don't really know why this discussion is

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Speaker 3: coming up, because I mean, what does a fan mean

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Speaker 3: that you've watched the show? You haven't watched the show.

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Speaker 3: That's been kind of a thing too. Someone will be like, well,

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Speaker 3: she watched the show a lot and then now she's

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Speaker 3: on the show.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Zimas called up and they want to put you

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Speaker 1: on the show, which would, by the way, would be

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Speaker 1: great casting because you are funny, you're brilliant, you're theatric

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Speaker 1: and so they would get you on there. You know

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Speaker 1: everything about the history of the show. You've you've met

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Speaker 1: these women, You've talked to them. You would be great.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying you are exactly what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: You're the type of person in what are we going

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Speaker 1: to go after as a fan?

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Speaker 3: It doesn't I mean on The Bachelor, you literally use

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Speaker 3: the fandom to continue to cast the show. Of course, Sep,

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Speaker 3: why would people have applied for the Bachelor if they'd

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Speaker 3: never heard of the Bachelor?

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Speaker 1: Like it when we bring a bachelor back and at

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Speaker 1: or a bachelorette. That's the whole point is I watched

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Speaker 1: you on last season, Ben, I saw you heartbroken, and

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Speaker 1: now Ben Higgins, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna love

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Speaker 1: you and I'm gonna fix your broken heart. That's the

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Speaker 1: whole point. That's the story continuing, right.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not here in defense of what Monica on

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Speaker 3: Real House as a Salt Lake City did by lying

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Speaker 3: to the women and being part of the secret Instagram

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Speaker 3: account and then being their friend. Like, I'm not in

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Speaker 3: support of lying, but it was great television.

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Speaker 2: And I don't.

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Speaker 3: Think her being a fan or running this Instagram account

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Speaker 3: about the sh show bars her from being on the show.

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Speaker 3: I think it makes her a great reality TV character.

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Speaker 1: No, it makes her target.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I mean now the other women.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what they're going to run

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Speaker 3: into with the other women saying we don't want to

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Speaker 3: film with her, or we do. But like I mean, ultimately,

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Speaker 3: Arianna from vander Pump Rules is filming with the guy

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Speaker 3: who cheated on her with a cast made so.

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Speaker 2: Like, you know, you got to do what's best for

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Speaker 2: the good of the show we have. The show must

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Speaker 2: go on.

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Speaker 3: She has removed Real Housewives of Salt Lake City from

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Speaker 3: her Instagram bio. I am not sure if they're asking

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Speaker 3: her back, but I think what that The bigger question

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Speaker 3: to me wasn't whether she had watched the show, been

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Speaker 3: a fan, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: The bigger thing to me was.

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Speaker 3: Like the prestige and brand of housewives.

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Speaker 4: You know, if she's with I see what you're saying, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if is she really, you know, is she that housewife

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Speaker 4: level of I mean what it.

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Speaker 3: Looks like like, you know, it's actually interesting if it

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Speaker 3: was someone like if this Instagram account turned out to

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Speaker 3: be one of the women who was already one of

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Speaker 3: the housewives, would she continue on the show.

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Speaker 1: Because this woman you're referring to as a very kind

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Speaker 1: of would you say, humble kind of life?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like normal, she's like a single mom of four.

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Speaker 3: She talked on the show about not being able to

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Speaker 3: afford the same brands as the other women.

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Speaker 2: She talked about.

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Speaker 3: You know, there there's also the like the deception factor.

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Speaker 3: I mean definitely what has worked for Housewives over the

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Speaker 3: years is when it starts out with a group of

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Speaker 3: women who are actually friends. It makes the show grounded

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Speaker 3: in reality. It makes the fights real, it makes the

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Speaker 3: drama better. The housewives of Salt Lake City were originally friends.

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Speaker 3: She has come in not as a friend, So I

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Speaker 3: think maybe that's part of it. You know, that might

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Speaker 3: be part of her not returning, because they're kind of.

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Speaker 1: Like, what about Mary?

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Speaker 2: Because you love Mary?

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Speaker 1: Of course I love Mary, But is she would you

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Speaker 1: say she's because I know she left and she's back

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Speaker 1: this season, and I love her. She's a phenomenal character.

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Speaker 1: She's cuckoo and I love it in all the best

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Speaker 1: ways for reality TV. But was she part of that

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Speaker 1: friend group? Was she an insider?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, as much as an insider issue.

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Speaker 2: Do they film the reunion? She said, pray for Monica?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? She is she?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: Is there a line though, of like being too much

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Speaker 3: of a fan, like when you and I know you

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Speaker 3: didn't do casting for the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but do you think I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I guess if producers ever talked to you about this,

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Speaker 3: would there have been someone who was like too much

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Speaker 3: of a fan? Or would they have would there have

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Speaker 3: been any reason? Like I don't know, if you if

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Speaker 3: someone had reported on the show, would you let them

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Speaker 3: apply to be were there ever? Were there no? Nos?

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Speaker 1: I would say being a fan is fine if you

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Speaker 1: had been like a very inside reporter, like say, even

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Speaker 1: you who knew the ins and outs of the show,

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Speaker 1: like the way it worked. That's that's that's the problem

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Speaker 1: is when you can't suspend your your belief and really

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Speaker 1: let go. And that's the hardest thing. And I have

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Speaker 1: this conversation or I used to have the conversation with

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Speaker 1: Bachelor and bachorettes because they've been in the bubble and

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Speaker 1: they've seen the show and they know how the sausage

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Speaker 1: is made to a certain degree. To really let this work,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to let go and you really

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Speaker 1: have to trust these producers and give yourself to the

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Speaker 1: process because you need to be surprised, you need to

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Speaker 1: be excited, you need to be able to fall in love.

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Speaker 1: And when you try to hold on to something so tight,

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Speaker 1: and I mean controlling the edit and the show and

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Speaker 1: the way it's produced, it's really hard to let go

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Speaker 1: and trust the producer.

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Speaker 3: How did that go with the ones who did a

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Speaker 3: second time, like Brad Wollmack or Clear Crawley.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of other ones.

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Speaker 1: There are very few like that came back to be

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Speaker 1: the lead for two times. Not great because you know

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Speaker 1: it's just they because at this point too, it's just

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Speaker 1: as much our fault because we have produced them. And

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Speaker 1: now it's become such a contract if they will bargain

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Speaker 1: for stuff, and you're paying them for certain things, so

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Speaker 1: they are bartering for things of like we will do this,

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Speaker 1: we won't do this, and this is guaranteed, this isn't

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Speaker 1: so when you are giving and taking that much, there

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Speaker 1: has to be this kind of disconnect to really make

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Speaker 1: it work.

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Speaker 3: One thing I did think they did wrong on the

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Speaker 3: Real Housewives of Salt Lake City finale was they open

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Speaker 3: the reunion kind of like going back to the beginning.

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Speaker 3: And I think this was a tough situation for them

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Speaker 3: because the reunions are often in multiple parts, so they're

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Speaker 3: going to save the best stuff for last. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: it was sort of weird to have seen this big

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Speaker 3: reveal about Monica. She actually was this secret Instagram account

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Speaker 3: this whole time, and now we're like talking about stuff

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Speaker 3: that happened in the beginning of the season.

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Speaker 1: My producers, you know, they used to try and do

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Speaker 1: that too. It's like, say, you had this really explosive moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's what the world wants to talk about. Again,

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Speaker 1: you go back to the kind of a red carpet moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's what everyone wants to talk about, and

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Speaker 1: be like, Okay, Lauren, so you're born in Chicago. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about burning up in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: What was that Like?

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Speaker 1: Was it cold in the winter? And it's like, what

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Speaker 1: are we doing? We know, let's get to the meat

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Speaker 1: of this they've.

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Speaker 3: Gone back with Monica and the Reunion Part one to

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Speaker 3: like her storyline of just what we were talking about

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Speaker 3: her saying she didn't have enough as much money as

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Speaker 3: the other women and all that, and how much.

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Speaker 2: That was relatable to the audience. But I'm thinking, wait,

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Speaker 2: I need to.

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Speaker 3: Address the fact that I don't even know what to

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Speaker 3: believe about what this woman said anymore.

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Speaker 2: Well, I need to dig in on what was she.

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Speaker 1: Lying, Like who was the woman that lost the sixty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars ring or whatever?

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Speaker 2: At last?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, like there was a moment where this woman

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Speaker 1: lost a ring in the airport and it was like this,

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Speaker 1: and it was for that episode. It was a thing

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Speaker 1: that was a moment for that episode, not such a

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Speaker 1: moment that we need to really spend ten minutes on

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Speaker 1: the reunion show about it, because we've moved on. There

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Speaker 1: are things like that where I guess, you know, Bravo,

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Speaker 1: Andy does a good job. They brush over those things,

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Speaker 1: but keep it going to what we read.

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Speaker 2: It's okay to get into it. I just think we

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Speaker 2: needed to.

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Speaker 3: I think in this case, it was such an explosive

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Speaker 3: finale we needed to somehow address that elephant in the

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Speaker 3: room right.

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Speaker 1: Off the back, because I know that the era is

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Speaker 1: out of the balloon, and then we can't back up.

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Speaker 3: Let me get one more opinion producer Kendall big House.

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Speaker 3: I was fan she and I text about the Housewives, Kendall, like,

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Speaker 3: what did you think of the reunion? Did you think

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Speaker 3: they should have started it off different given what had

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Speaker 3: happened with Monica? And what do you think about like

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Speaker 3: whether she might come back, Like is it a problem

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Speaker 3: that she was a running this account and a fan?

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Speaker 2: What do you think?

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Speaker 5: I love the readunion? And first of all, like I

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Speaker 5: was the other woman, I would be upset, but they

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Speaker 5: all trash each other in some way on the show,

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Speaker 5: and her whole purpose of this account was to take

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Speaker 5: down Jenshow It's not like she started this account to

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Speaker 5: go after the other ladies.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I'm a little biased on the situation because I feel

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Speaker 5: like what Monica did was bad, Yes, but I don't

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Speaker 5: believe that she needs all this hate that she's getting.

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Speaker 5: And I think during the reunion she owned up to

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Speaker 5: the fact that she emailed casting and she was aggressive

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Speaker 5: on getting on the show, and she always had wanted

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Speaker 5: to come on the show and I don't know. I

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Speaker 5: feel like they're kind of being hard on her.

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Speaker 3: I think you think my prediction is she's coming back.

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Speaker 3: Here's why, Tom Sandoval. Tom Sandoval literally cheated on Ariana

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Speaker 3: on vander Pump Rules with another cast mate.

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Speaker 1: All the other.

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Speaker 3: Castmates are so mad at him. They're saying they're not

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Speaker 3: going to film with him, They're not going to see him.

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Speaker 3: We're about to get in the next season. This is

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Speaker 3: great reality TV. This was the highest rated episode of

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Speaker 3: Real house size of Salt Lake City. I one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent would watch a season of them all unpacking this

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Speaker 3: with Monica and guess what. The best housewives, the best

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Speaker 3: reality TV members are people who can bounce back, who

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Speaker 3: can remend relationships, who can forgive and move on, who

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Speaker 3: can keep the drama going. So if the ladies can

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Speaker 3: do that with Monica, I mean it's it's a big storyline.

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Speaker 1: Number One, this was produced. They knew and by the way,

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Speaker 1: kudos to you for the producer that knew this and

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Speaker 1: ferreted this story and brought it into the show. Number Two,

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Speaker 1: she will be back. Why because this was produced from

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Speaker 1: the start and the biggest thing you want to do

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Speaker 1: as a producer in reality TV is create an arcing story.

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Speaker 1: You have a story that is going to arc from

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Speaker 1: one season to the next. Now, a story that will

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Speaker 1: arc over a season is really good. A story that

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Speaker 1: will arc from season to season is brilliant because that

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Speaker 1: will bring you back because we all want to know

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Speaker 1: a is Monica coming back? Yes, she is number two?

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Speaker 1: How are they going to treat her? Will she be ostracized?

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Speaker 1: Will she be punished? Will she become one of the like?

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Speaker 1: There are so many questions we want answered. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're going to answer those questions. It's fantastic producing. It

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Speaker 1: is reality TV done at a high level. Kudos to

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Speaker 1: you Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. If they don't

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Speaker 1: win an Emmy for this season, I am buying them one.

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Speaker 1: You did a great job. I'm sending them a case

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Speaker 1: of champagne. In Monica, you're getting a sixty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: ring that was found in a toilet at an airport.

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Speaker 1: See how I brought that all together.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm so glad we can finally talk about housewives.

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Speaker 3: And I always love hearing are passionate.

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Speaker 1: I just thought about the housewives.

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Speaker 3: I love hearing your inside baseball and you really as

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Speaker 3: much as I think I know about reality TV, I

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Speaker 3: never You always point things out to me that are

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Speaker 3: I don't know if the right word is darker.

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Speaker 2: Than I thought.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Thank you guys so much, Elsie, thank you for

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Speaker 1: should I think, Elsie for introducing me to the Housewives

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Speaker 1: of Salt East. I don't know, but it is now

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Speaker 1: in my veins. It's now part of my life, as

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Speaker 1: are all of you. Thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 1: We'll do it again next time because we have a

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Speaker 1: lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us

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Speaker 1: on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and make

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Speaker 1: sure to write us a review and leave us five stars.

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Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next time.