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Speaker 1: Sacred twenty three, extremely extremely exciting. It's finally, finally, two

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Speaker 1: thousand twenty three. That means only funny things can happen

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Speaker 1: this year. That's right, selfie. Welcome to Welcome to Christy.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't hear any criticism. Welcome to Well. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I'm gonna say they're welcome, but it is good,

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Speaker 1: good work. Enjoy your year of discord um as if

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Speaker 1: any year of the last, like ten, has not been

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Speaker 1: a year every every year previously was totally normal and

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Speaker 1: not chaotic. Downhill from here. First off, welcome, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: We we love some of you. Probably presumably I haven't

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Speaker 1: met you, any of the ones that I love, but

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Speaker 1: I assume that you're out there. How's everybody doing, how's

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Speaker 1: everyone's new year? Absolute slap in the face to anyone

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Speaker 1: you've met on any of your live events, that's a fairy.

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Speaker 1: So nice to meet you. Thank you for coming in person. Also,

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Speaker 1: fuck you. That's what this whole episode is a series

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Speaker 1: of slaps to the face, because it's not for us.

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Speaker 1: We're lying. We're all lying to them. Who knows if

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Speaker 1: we make it that far today we're recording this on

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Speaker 1: December two, and what is it? What has happened today? Friends? Also,

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Speaker 1: who are you? Who is on this episode? Garrison's here?

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Speaker 1: As I've already spoken into the microphone, you know who

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Speaker 1: else has spoken into the microphone? Serene? Question work? Now

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Speaker 1: you have Sophie, Sophie, ye, James? Oh? Miss any one left? Oh? No, Mia,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think I've actually spoken into this

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Speaker 1: episode yet. So now I have. You've started the day? Didn't?

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Speaker 1: So that's how you introduced a PODCT so incredibly awkward.

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Speaker 1: It was perfect, magnificent, as if we had never done

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Speaker 1: a podcast. But before we get to this, to some

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Speaker 1: of the q days of what has happened today when

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Speaker 1: we're recording it? Oh, well, today is the day? Is

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Speaker 1: the one day anniversary of me showing Garrison the movie

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Speaker 1: Strange Days, written by James Cameron um a New Year's classic.

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Speaker 1: Such a good movie. Not seen it? Oh you gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta watch it? It is Robert got an alert

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Speaker 1: on his phone that was just like Memories one year,

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Speaker 1: a lot of one day, one day, a lot of

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Speaker 1: violence against the l a p D in that film. Today,

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Speaker 1: that's what's happened has happened? Yeah, definitely not a pro

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Speaker 1: l a p D movie. Um. Also you you get

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Speaker 1: to repeatedly see a couple of now prominent actors oh

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Speaker 1: faces um, which is which is great in a slightly

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Speaker 1: problematic context, deeply problematic context, but a good movie. What

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Speaker 1: actors are in this movie? What's his? What's his? Ralph Find? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ralph find is the main character, and he looks exactly

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Speaker 1: like ten years ago Bradley Cooper. Bradley Cooper in this movie.

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Speaker 1: So don't insult Ralph. Don't do that. They that's what

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Speaker 1: I mean. Okay, well, that's cool. Um, he's great and

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Speaker 1: Angela Bassett is fucking incredible in it. Queen. Yeah. Tom

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Speaker 1: Sizemore is present in the movie. Alright, Well my favorite

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Speaker 1: is Vincent din Afrio looks exactly like Tim Heidecker's character,

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Speaker 1: and that I think you should leave sketch where they're

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Speaker 1: at the UFO themed restaurant. It's it's uncanny, um that

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Speaker 1: you're still doing. Uh. I think you should leave references

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Speaker 1: in the Lord's I showed my family before before they

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Speaker 1: left to go see other family for Christmas. I sat

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Speaker 1: I sat my family down to watch the second half

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Speaker 1: of season two and magnificent. Yeah, it's defined, and that

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Speaker 1: that leads into my only prediction for the next year,

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Speaker 1: which is this is, oh God, come on all right,

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Speaker 1: who's what's the first question? Then? Well, want to know, um,

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Speaker 1: in an alternate universe where it could happen here, has

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Speaker 1: a corporate office, does the staff get a Robert Evans

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Speaker 1: book for holiday presence or a gift card? And we

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Speaker 1: can we can actually answer this because despite not having

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Speaker 1: a corporate office, there's still there still was a holiday

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Speaker 1: gift which I have not actually with mine yet, so

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Speaker 1: I can't say what line is, but I know other

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Speaker 1: people have received theirs. I don't know, Sophie, I ordered

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Speaker 1: yours for well, well, Sophie, you know sometimes it would

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Speaker 1: be like that tracking it's probably gonna be yes. So

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Speaker 1: if you're about to ruin some ups drives day, But

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Speaker 1: what did what did everyone else received for their Scarrison?

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Speaker 1: Will be delivered PM today out for today? There there

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Speaker 1: you go. It's okay, Garrison. I didn't get shipped either.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh, did buy you something that hasn't come yet? Devastatingly,

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Speaker 1: what did what did what did everyone else get for

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Speaker 1: for their holiday gift? Was it a Robert Evans book? No,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't God would be Oh my god, imagine you're

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Speaker 1: that fucked up, that unchanged that you're like, you should

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Speaker 1: do that ar gift. The second job I ever had,

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Speaker 1: which was our third job, I guess, which was working

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Speaker 1: for this accountant guy that's like like he was like right,

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Speaker 1: he was a retirement like an advisor guy. He would

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Speaker 1: help old people get their money in order to retire.

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Speaker 1: It was mostly like helping him host events at like

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Speaker 1: a Texas roadhouse where we would try to get old

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Speaker 1: people to buy annuities. But um, so I worked for

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Speaker 1: this guy. In the day I started the job, he

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Speaker 1: gave me a copy of his self published novel Operation

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Speaker 1: night Watch, which was about a group of Navy seals

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Speaker 1: going rogue to stop drug dealers and is one of

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Speaker 1: the worst things I've ever read. I mean I attempted

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Speaker 1: to someone when I mentioned it once on the show.

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Speaker 1: Somebody found and bought a copy and give that money

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Speaker 1: to someone else. Oh, he can't be alive anymore. There's

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Speaker 1: no way he said it was. It was probably all

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Speaker 1: the eBay or something. Yeah, yeah, that that man has

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Speaker 1: been dead for years. I'm sure we still we still

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Speaker 1: have an we still have, we got time. He can's

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Speaker 1: mace to to a little personal maces on the left

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Speaker 1: hand one for your right hand. I really like it.

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Speaker 1: It's very compact. New pepper spray has been on my

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Speaker 1: tables for like months because mine was expired like a

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Speaker 1: year ago. But I've never actually bought in one, and

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Speaker 1: so it was perfect and I was just so tiny.

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Speaker 1: I can put it in like my Fannie pack and

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Speaker 1: just continue on my day. How do you know it

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Speaker 1: won't work if it's expired. I just poked it up.

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Speaker 1: I looked it up, and I was just like, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to like, I don't know. I just it

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Speaker 1: was on my tables. I obviously didn't buy it yet.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like you don't want to hurt somebody with

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Speaker 1: expired pepper spray. It's a propellant that expires. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: kid itself gets like yourself. Yeah I got it. Yeah Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there you go, there you go. Um let's see,

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Speaker 1: so we're going to be going through some of the

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Speaker 1: questions that we got for the previous Sorry my cats

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Speaker 1: are making Also. I do like that that, but that

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Speaker 1: person really thought that Robert was that person that was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: happy holidays, here's my book. I do get the royalties.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. We should, we should. We should use the

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Speaker 1: corporate cards to buy more copies of my book. That's

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Speaker 1: a good idea. So we can just ship them to

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Speaker 1: the sea, though it doesn't matter where they go. For

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Speaker 1: the next question, and we're using the questions from the previous,

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Speaker 1: it could happen in your livestream for this, by the way,

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Speaker 1: So if we didn't get to your question, we're getting

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Speaker 1: to some more of them right now. Unless your questions sucked. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: very personal. Yes, that's that's that's what I meant by sucked. Um.

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Speaker 1: So do you know of a way to get involved

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Speaker 1: in mutual aid without using social media? I don't really

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Speaker 1: use it for mental health reasons. Good decision there to

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Speaker 1: not use social media. Continue using social media. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: A lot of mutual aid organizing or you know, like

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Speaker 1: requests happen on social media. Um, but I mean there's

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Speaker 1: I guess it depends on how you use social media.

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Speaker 1: I suppose like it might be useful to have a

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Speaker 1: friend that follows some of the some of the social

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Speaker 1: media stuff in your local area, whether that be on

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Speaker 1: Twitter or mastered on or Instagram. Um, and then can

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Speaker 1: like relay relay to you if there's local events um,

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Speaker 1: or you can just like section off like once a

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Speaker 1: week you check on just a few of those things

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Speaker 1: and then you then you delete the app from from

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Speaker 1: your phone again. Um. Because once you are like plugged

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Speaker 1: into a local community, then people can just like directly

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Speaker 1: send you flyers and stuff. Um. But you have to

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Speaker 1: have those connections there in the first place. And those

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Speaker 1: connections are really best made by going to things on

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Speaker 1: the ground, whether it be you know, a food not

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Speaker 1: bombs type thing, whether it be you know, like a

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Speaker 1: clothing swap. Um. Lots of local events do happen in

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Speaker 1: in in people's cities, and once you actually go there

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Speaker 1: in person, that's where real community actually gets built. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's just it's just it's kind of just breaking

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Speaker 1: the ice to actually get to act go to a

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Speaker 1: few in person things and then and then people can

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Speaker 1: send you, you know, direct fires and stuff. If you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be doom scrolling well looking for things,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to even have an account if you

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Speaker 1: don't decide not to. You can like view profiles on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram without an account that you can't like

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Speaker 1: see the comments or whatever. But if you just want

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Speaker 1: to see their profile every once in a while and

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Speaker 1: check in on what they're doing. You can do that

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Speaker 1: online with no account. Yeah, often as well, like and

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Speaker 1: well we're doing mutual aid things here. It tends to

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Speaker 1: focus on the border a lot or on house people,

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Speaker 1: and like in both cases you can just show up

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Speaker 1: and you'll meet someone who's helping in most instances, and

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Speaker 1: then they can direct you and they can text you

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Speaker 1: or signal you whatever. Like there were tons of people

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Speaker 1: when the migrant caravan arrived who were much older and

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Speaker 1: not on social media, often with church groups, and they

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Speaker 1: didn't hugely like have UM I would say a lot

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Speaker 1: of experience in that kind of area, but they deeply

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Speaker 1: wanted to help and they showed up and people were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you go to us, go and get base and

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Speaker 1: they want to ga absolute and yeah, and we use

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Speaker 1: what's happened? It was fine, and like check around. Another

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Speaker 1: option to be obviously if if you if you have

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Speaker 1: like like a radical meeting space in your city, you

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Speaker 1: can check their um If you don't have those, you

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Speaker 1: can even check see if there's any like radical coffee

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Speaker 1: shops or cafes that maybe have like a bulletin board

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Speaker 1: people will often put up flyers for stuff there. Um,

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Speaker 1: just you really have to do start to start trying

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Speaker 1: to be like plugged into your actual like I r

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Speaker 1: L local community and that's generally how that goes. Um,

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Speaker 1: you have to be more proactive than if you had

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Speaker 1: social media is the main thing. You still have to

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Speaker 1: show up either way, right, Like, Yeah, and do you

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Speaker 1: know who else wants you to show up online? Evans?

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Speaker 1: I don't these products and services that want you to.

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Speaker 1: We're now exclusively only sponsored by Robert's books. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: here's an excerpt. All right, and we're back speaking of

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Speaker 1: the Internet. Robert or anyone I suppose, do you think

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Speaker 1: there's a way to get back to fulfilling the promise

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Speaker 1: of the early Internet? Uh? No, Um, I don't. I

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Speaker 1: think the early Internet was a thing that happened that

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Speaker 1: in part was the way that it was because our

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Speaker 1: brains did not have any kind of tolerance or or

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Speaker 1: or like we're not like prepared for it. Um, And

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Speaker 1: it it kind of grew up as we became capable

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Speaker 1: of like I don't know, like the the the Internet

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Speaker 1: grew more social as we got used to it. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think that can ever happen again, like those

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Speaker 1: those weird little moments where I don't know ye that

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Speaker 1: my answer is no, I don't think it will ever

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Speaker 1: happen again, in the same way that like you're never

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Speaker 1: going to get those weird little moments that you you had,

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Speaker 1: like the birth of you know, the printing press or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, it was a unique moment in history

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Speaker 1: and it's never going to come again. Which doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that something else won't happen. Um, but the Internet is

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Speaker 1: not Like the fact that we've all lived through the

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Speaker 1: social media era means even once all these companies go bust,

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Speaker 1: our brains have still been changed by them too much

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Speaker 1: to ever go back to posting the way we once did. No,

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Speaker 1: we're too far gone, I think. On a kind of

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Speaker 1: similar note, in a few days, we have an episode

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Speaker 1: from Andrew on digital commons and this that kind of

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Speaker 1: involves around this same kind of question. So in a

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Speaker 1: few days we'll have we'll have an episode kind of

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Speaker 1: about this topic ran by Andrew. Um, but James, you

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Speaker 1: had you had something, Yeah, Sometimes like obviously like the

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Speaker 1: Internet is terrible in many ways, but like when we

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Speaker 1: talk about like what happened in myanma that series of

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Speaker 1: Robert and I did. Like that seems to me like

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Speaker 1: it's delivering on some of the promises of the early Internet,

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's mad that you know, a young person

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Speaker 1: like who is facing a coup and wants democracy in

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Speaker 1: this part of Asia can go online speak to some

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Speaker 1: dude in these aren't real places, like people are spoken

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Speaker 1: to about like some some guy in his garage in

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Speaker 1: Ohio who's threely printing guns, and that person can help

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Speaker 1: the other person on themselves and defend their right to

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Speaker 1: choose who governs them or if they're governed at all,

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Speaker 1: Like that is really fucking cool, and that doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: without the Internet, and so yeah, there's also yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not that there's not going to be good things

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Speaker 1: done with the Internet, or that it can't be made better,

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Speaker 1: but it's never going to be what it was because

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Speaker 1: we simply know too much. Um, let's see what are

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Speaker 1: some inspiring recent examples of cooperation increasing survival odds to

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Speaker 1: know the type that thinks they just need AMMO to survive.

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Speaker 1: Another good touchstone with for this would be the movie

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Speaker 1: trimmers Um which which shows unfortunately actually he's survival player

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Speaker 1: nobody lives with that community. Unfortunately, unfortunately, I think Rabbit

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Speaker 1: actually is correct here. More broadly, this person is like

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Speaker 1: and coned sleep paraphrasing Kurparkian, right, but like we have

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Speaker 1: all just lived through a pandemic, and they are stilling

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Speaker 1: through a pandemic. I guess which has changed the world

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Speaker 1: killed hundreds of thousands, millions of people, and like, the

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Speaker 1: reason a lot of people got through that, A lot

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Speaker 1: of people who didn't weren't able to work or were

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Speaker 1: immuno compromised. You can't go out as much is because

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Speaker 1: other people helped them, Like no one shot COVID and

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Speaker 1: no one fed themselves in the lockdown because they had

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Speaker 1: tons of five or five six stocked away, like a

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Speaker 1: ton of mutual aid happened. A lot of terrible ship

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Speaker 1: happened as well, But that's a bigger example. I think, mm, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what genres of music have each of you been listening

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Speaker 1: to lately? M I'm a big classical head. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if it's like I also listened to a lot

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Speaker 1: of classical the best. When you're driving, everything becomes like

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Speaker 1: cinematic and it's calming, and sometimes words distract me, so

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Speaker 1: my go too is classical to what I would consider

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Speaker 1: classical music, which is second and third wave SCAA basically

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Speaker 1: the only classical music in my opinion. I listened to

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Speaker 1: the Clash Suade and the manicx Ree Preacher is more

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Speaker 1: or less exclusively. Yeah, they're the only bands that matter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think if it's not classical, I'm trying to like

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Speaker 1: be I don't know, I'm like dancing around. So it's

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Speaker 1: either like it's like two extremes for me, either classical

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Speaker 1: and I'm like chill, going to sleep, or I'm getting

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Speaker 1: ready and I want to feel something. M what if

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Speaker 1: I man, I have the most absolutely dogship music, but

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Speaker 1: the music that I listened to it, I think it's

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Speaker 1: legitimately good. That's not like hower metal or like weird

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Speaker 1: ship is I've I've been going back to like my

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Speaker 1: Youth and my Youth is a combination of like surf rock.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is a safe space like what okay,

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Speaker 1: like Pat Pat Benatar sort of like that that there's

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Speaker 1: a sort of era of like I don't know what

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Speaker 1: you call it, like lesbian glam rock. I don't know yourself.

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Speaker 1: This is the safe space you keep saying that I

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Speaker 1: don't think we ever agreed to this. I usually listened

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Speaker 1: to a lot of music, well, writing and researching. I

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Speaker 1: just finished up to two pretty big writing projects. I've

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Speaker 1: been listening to a lot of music. Um, most of

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Speaker 1: it's like ambient electronica. Uh, some classicals thrown in there

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Speaker 1: if I need to get a little bit more like energy.

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Speaker 1: But listening to some Trent Resiner kind of ambient stuff um,

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Speaker 1: and like a lot of I also listened to a

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Speaker 1: lot of remixes of the Mario Galaxy soundtrack. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: like that. Wait, okay, okay, okay, all right, I need

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Speaker 1: to I need I need to plug a truly awful song. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we got it. Okay, look Donkey Kong has to slam

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Speaker 1: this way. It has to be this way, X space

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Speaker 1: Jam x d k Rap. I need, I need to

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Speaker 1: know that this exists, is there's there's it is incredible.

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Speaker 1: It is another worldly experience. That's also a version of it.

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Speaker 1: That's the k but also what do we mean angel? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think this said. Do you listen to Max Richter?

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Speaker 1: I think he would like Max Richter. He's like he

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Speaker 1: had a lot of soundtracks for shows. So stuff is

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Speaker 1: kind of like melancholic and piano ee, but I think

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Speaker 1: you might like it. I will look him up. Good name, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's spelled Richer. Yeah, okay, great. Yeah. You should also

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Speaker 1: listen to the Mighty Mighty Boss Towns, who did a

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Speaker 1: wonderful album. No No, don't don't speak out the album

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Speaker 1: That George Floyd song is incredibly appropriate, deeply appropriate. Yet,

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Speaker 1: speaking of listening to things, speaking speaking of things that

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Speaker 1: are problems, what is what is the most troubling thing

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Speaker 1: that isn't being reported on or isn't taken seriously by

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Speaker 1: the wider public. The fact that none of you said

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Speaker 1: you listened to any rap music or any type of

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Speaker 1: music that wasn't just I thought Tupac was a give okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: trachical questions I listened to. I listened to a little

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Speaker 1: bit of Biggie every now and again, and I got

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Speaker 1: my most deaf always loaded up, especially around the New Year.

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Speaker 1: I love listening to Life and Marvelous Times, both sides

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Speaker 1: as a hell of an album. I've always been more Biggie.

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Speaker 1: There's a guy Code and Christian Parish takes a gun.

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Speaker 1: He rapped by Superman. He's like from the coronation. I

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Speaker 1: think his stuff is cool. The most troubling thing that

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Speaker 1: isn't that isn't being reported on are taken seriously enough

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Speaker 1: by the wide republic besides our musical tastes. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be and always say like Atal East your

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Speaker 1: news and Palestine and like air and balance reporting and

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Speaker 1: even like Syria and uh Yemen and all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I think none of that gets enough attention. Absolutely, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say, fucking scams um, Like just on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: I feel like my phone gets uh, six to eight

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Speaker 1: scam calls scam calls at least, and like it's uh

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Speaker 1: and someone making a note of this earlier because like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of scam stories have been people have been

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Speaker 1: sharing them this year. But like there's all sorts of

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Speaker 1: fucked up things like if a relative gets arrested, as

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Speaker 1: soon as the police post um the like the they're

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Speaker 1: the fact that like like publicly posted they've been arrested,

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Speaker 1: Like the family if they have numbers that scammers can find,

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Speaker 1: will start getting auto dialed by like accounts claiming to

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Speaker 1: be the police saying that like you need to put

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Speaker 1: money in their account now where they're going into general population.

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Speaker 1: And it's all these are all like low hanging fruit

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Speaker 1: things like they're they're they're not they're targeting people who

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Speaker 1: are not very savvy UM often people who have some

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Speaker 1: sort of like mental disability. Right, So folks who are

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Speaker 1: kind of living a marginal existence in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways as it is, UM and they are like it

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Speaker 1: it's making it incredibly difficult for and and folks who

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Speaker 1: have like are cognitively impaired for whatever reason, including the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're they're elderly. There's just like this. It's

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Speaker 1: never been like this before, the sheer density of scams

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Speaker 1: that people have to wade through. And again, most of you,

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Speaker 1: we've all kind of noticed it getting more common, but

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Speaker 1: you may not have noticed how kind of brutal it's

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Speaker 1: gotten because you're not the target demographic for this stuff, right.

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Speaker 1: That's why they all have like filters in them to

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Speaker 1: try and weed out the people who are savvy enough

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Speaker 1: to know that they're being scammed. But it's there's a

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Speaker 1: number of things. This is the result of decisions that

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Speaker 1: the the FTC made um like like in order to

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Speaker 1: like make it a lot easier for people to use

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Speaker 1: ship like auto dialers and to carry out like phone

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Speaker 1: based scams. But it's it's just been punted on by

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Speaker 1: every presidential administration in our lifetime. Is the Internet has

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Speaker 1: made it easier to automate this stuff, and the the

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Speaker 1: explosion of machine learning tools that are widely available, these

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Speaker 1: kind of AI s that people are joking about right now,

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Speaker 1: like it's all going to create the capacity to more

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Speaker 1: effectively automate scams. I had one that could have gotten

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Speaker 1: me the other day where I got a call from

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Speaker 1: my bank that was listed as from my bank is

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Speaker 1: and like on it like it was my bank's phone number,

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Speaker 1: like it was. It came up as them on the

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Speaker 1: and they were like, hey, you know someone has there's

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Speaker 1: some some charges. Can we run them by you? We

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Speaker 1: want to make sure And they were like charge things

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Speaker 1: I had not bought. They were like wire transfers and

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Speaker 1: ship and they're like, oh, it looks like you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody's gotten access to your account. And the call dropped

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Speaker 1: before I could finish it, so I called them back,

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Speaker 1: and when I called my bank back, they were like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was someone spoofing our number. They were trying to

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Speaker 1: get personal information out of you. Um, this ship is

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Speaker 1: so fucking endemic, and no one is doing a goddamn

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Speaker 1: thing about it. There's like one anemic attempt in Congress

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Speaker 1: to slightly address it, primarily through like education, but it

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Speaker 1: is a massive problem. It's part of what's breaking society,

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Speaker 1: the fact that like everyone is constantly flooded by this

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Speaker 1: low level cloud of people trying to destroy their financial lives. Um,

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Speaker 1: It's it's real bad. Do you know what else is

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00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: trying to destroy your financial lives? Of the products and

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Speaker 1: services that support this podcast, Garrison and Robert's books, and

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Speaker 1: we are back for one final time for this episode.

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Speaker 1: This is This is actually a question that I feel

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Speaker 1: is pretty important that I wish people thought about a

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00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 1: bit more, at least within like, you know, our our

403
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Speaker 1: general sphere. Where do you draw the line between fascist

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Speaker 1: politics and non fascist conservative politics. Well, at the moment

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Speaker 1: in the United States, I don't think there's a line

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Speaker 1: to be drawn, because the mainstream of the Republican Party

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00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: completely thrown themselves in behind one of or both of

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Speaker 1: two fascists. Um. In terms of like personally, I guess

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Speaker 1: it depends on whether or not people support their being

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Speaker 1: like things like penalties on on on it. Do people

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Speaker 1: like does somebody's support banning books, to somebody's support arresting

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Speaker 1: folks for expressing political opinions that differ from there's does

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Speaker 1: somebody support, um, you know, expanding the penalties for petty

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Speaker 1: crimes to include like violence, Like those are all things

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Speaker 1: that can suggest that somebody is a fascist. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, anybody who supports the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party right now is supporting a fascist movement. So I

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Speaker 1: don't feel there's any sort of I don't draw a

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Speaker 1: line in my head anymore, to be entirely honest, because

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Speaker 1: they they alighted the line. I try to be very

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Speaker 1: specific when I say fastist versus just like a regular conservative.

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Speaker 1: In my reporting, like when we were inside Colorado, we

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Speaker 1: talked to people who were Conservatives, who were who were

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Speaker 1: against fascists and against local fascists in their community and

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Speaker 1: actually doing things to help stop fascists from gaining power

426
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: within their local community. UM. I think if you look

427
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: at a lot of the rhetoric around queer people right now,

428
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: whether it be like drag shows or trans people, that's

429
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: a specific style of rhetoric that is like innately fascist. UM,

430
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: like talking about like there was there was there was

431
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: a tweet from um is his name, like lindsay James,

432
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: what's that? What's what's that? Guy? Yeah, he put out

433
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: he put out this little like meme being like, don't

434
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: call them drag queens, call them um like like it

435
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: was some some bullshit groomer thing, Like I forget the

436
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: exact thing, but like that that specific style of rhetorical

437
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: framing is is is like a pretext to ex termination

438
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: and genocide, Like that is that is what that is

439
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: what they're doing, and I think that is right now.

440
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: Is what it crosses the line is when when they're

441
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: creating these scapegoat groups that that are going to be

442
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: targeted and posing these groups as like a threat to civilization. Um,

443
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: that's where I kind of use that word like fascists

444
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: like that that is generally in in my research where

445
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: I start employing that versus you know, some random guy

446
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: who I'm talking to who you know wants there to

447
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: be lower taxes and less regulation. Because yeah, that that position,

448
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: as we've seen now, can eventually lead to the type

449
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: of fascist policies. But I think that there is when

450
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: it comes to like people in your personal life, and

451
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: when it comes to like regular people who are not politicians.

452
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: I think having a little bit more discretion is useful

453
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: because I think there's still a chance that some people

454
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: who are currently conservative can not become fascist. Yeah, I

455
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: would agree. I think in the US context one sort

456
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: of useful litmus test for people on the right. It's like,

457
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: are the rules of the game more important than the

458
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: outcome of the game. Like, so when you look at

459
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: like the sort of fascism we saw around Donald Trump, right,

460
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: like there was a point where the outcome of the game,

461
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: the maintenance of power right became more important than the

462
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: rules of the game. I like basic human rights, and

463
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: I think that that's a useful definitely a useful sort

464
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: of it's this person dangerous, it might like I like

465
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: Paxton's definition of fascism. Generally it's not great, but it's

466
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: which has elements useful. Yeah, it's useful. And I think

467
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: your scapegoat group group one is really key when people

468
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: a scapegrowing people and they don't really give a funk

469
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: about how they eliminate those people stop quote unquote, right,

470
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: when when people are seeking to use the machinery of

471
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: state to eliminate people and ideas that they find uncomfortable

472
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: by using the force of law against them, Um, they're fascists.

473
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: And when people are supportive of ending democratic like ending

474
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: the democratic transfer of power in order to support an

475
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: individual that they think embodies their conception of like what

476
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: their country is, those people are fascists. Um. And I

477
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: think that it's one thing, And I don't think it's

478
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: usually useful if you're having a conversation with an individual

479
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: to call them a fascist, even if they're behaving in

480
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: ways that are kind of fashy. If you think that

481
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: a productive conversation can be had, Um, that might move

482
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: them in one direction or the other. But at the

483
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: end of the day, if somebody is supportive, for example,

484
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: of a third term for Donald Trump, um, that person

485
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: is supporting a fascist movement. And I don't think that

486
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: there's a I don't think I don't think it matters that,

487
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: like their individual reasons for doing it maybe less fascy

488
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: than someone else's, Like, at the end of the day,

489
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: they are supporting that, and that's that's kind of what

490
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: matters to me. I think. I think it's also worth

491
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: taking a little bit of a look at what happened

492
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: to your conservatism in order to sort of understand what's

493
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: going on here, because I think there was an important

494
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: sort of fracture a in terms of the fact that

495
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: George Bush like basically orchestrated like yeah, like bait bait,

496
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: Like he didn't technically at a coupe, but he like

497
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: he he he rigged an elections such as to put

498
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: it it's like, so as to put him in power, right,

499
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: Like that's what the Brookes Brothers riot was. That's what

500
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: that's that's sort of the process that gets us the

501
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: Bush wouldn't shoot in two thousands and there you know

502
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: that this is this is an interesting moment because if

503
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: you look at what happens to conservatism over the sort

504
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: of like the I don't know, the last twenty five

505
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: years of the twentieth century, there's this interesting pivot where

506
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: they they make where in order to you know, if

507
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: you look at like what what is the conservative response

508
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: to communism in nineteen like thirty nine, right, it's just

509
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: like we're going to be fascists, right, It's like literally

510
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: we are going to be the Nazis. But you know,

511
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: by by by the time you get to like post

512
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: world wortching, by time it gets really to like the

513
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, they start realizing that like people don't

514
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: generally like fascism that much, and so the form of

515
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: anti communism that they take starts to be this sort

516
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: of like rights based like weird support like like freedom

517
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: and human rights and like free markets and democracy. And

518
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: there there there's this point where that stuff meets with

519
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: like another kind of fascist politics, which is sort of

520
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: like the two one era of state of exception stuff

521
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: that happened after nine where you know, like people are

522
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: talking about the gloves coming off, and this is this

523
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 1: is this is getting into your sort of like like

524
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: looking at like multa Benjaminans like conceptution of what fascism

525
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: is or am I blanking on the guy's name like

526
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: Carl Schmidt's stuff right where it's like here was a

527
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: part of the state that can just like destroy like

528
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: they had to have sovereign power and can just sort

529
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: of trample over the entire legal order in order to

530
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: serfatuate it. Right, So this is like okay, suddenly after

531
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: two thousand one, like after nine eleven, they were just

532
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: like people disappearing into torture dungeons, right, and you get

533
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: this moment where, on the one hand, yeah, like because

534
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: George w. Bush is one of these people who's like

535
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: the sort of like freedom democracy people, but then beneath

536
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: him is you know, it collapses very quickly into this

537
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: we are the torture dungeons stuff and this willingess literally

538
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: to rig elections. And I think that's the sort of

539
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: important because because like there are sort of normal conservatives

540
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: right who still have that kind of like freedom and

541
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: liberal democracy whatever thing, and they're not really that fascist

542
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: kind of but in some sense it doesn't it doesn't

543
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: matter that much institutionally because the part of the Republican

544
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Party that survived was a combination of the torture dungeon,

545
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: which is like Gina Hospital like and then Trump, who

546
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: is this the sort of emblem of this like like

547
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: the sort of sort of like we're gonna we're gonna

548
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: take the election, We're gonna take power. We're gonna use

549
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: the power of the state to just like murder everyone

550
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: we like. And I don't know, like I think, I

551
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: I think like you can find individual people who are

552
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: conservatives who I guess like art Nazis, but the the

553
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: way that neo conservatives and fragmented and the way that

554
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: that kind of state of exception politics and that politics

555
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: have sort of just like mass torture, and then also

556
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: the willingness to just steal elections like that. I don't

557
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: know that stuff I think forms is this another sort

558
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: of core fascism, that's they're alongside the sort of queer

559
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: extermination of stuff And there I don't know, these things

560
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: fused together in ways. And yeah, I've rambled for long enough.

561
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna do one more question. And I think we

562
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: cover a lot of upsetting things on the show, some

563
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: things that maybe are not you know, super fun to

564
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: think about. Um, but we also cover some like hopeful

565
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: stuff as well. But what's what's one thing that the

566
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: crew who works in the show due to decompress and

567
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: clear our minds after you know, wading through the trenches

568
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: of the digital hellscape. Uh pass. I feel like we

569
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: might have answered something similar to this on the line.

570
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: I saw Robert playing cyberpunk last night, so I know

571
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: there's at least at least one thing. It does allow

572
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: me to pretend that Keanu Reeves is my friend, which

573
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: is nice to meet him first. I like to go camping.

574
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: I like to go outside like I like to swim

575
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: in the ocean and raban bike and hiking, camping. Yeah, yeah,

576
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: I second that I need to go outside and just

577
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: even like a simple walk with trees and hiking. I

578
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: think it really helps me just decompressed and be present again,

579
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: hanging out with queer people's not and intentionally not talking

580
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: about Twitter bullshit, just like going and do doing something,

581
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: just like varying around in the grass, just like talking

582
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: about gay ship. It rules. It's the self that heals

583
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: the heart. Absolutely. Well, uh, thank thank you everybody. Me.

584
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: Oh see, I was gonna try to just like nope,

585
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: just just just like that, wrap up the episode in

586
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: a nice little bow. Um. I don't know. I've I've

587
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: been trying to get back into doing more kind of

588
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: art stuff with my camera and whether that be photography

589
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: or filmmaking, um in like short form stuff. Uh what

590
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: else I've been doing Yeah, I don't know. Taking drugs. Sure,

591
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: there it is. Shrooms are healing, shocking, shocking, incredible on

592
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: the podcast. Now now you can wrap it up if

593
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: you want to. Well, thank you everyone for listening to

594
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: our episode. That's what I do to thank you. See,

595
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: that's the thing to do. That's actually actually actually there's

596
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: one person who has tried to skirt past this this question, Sophie. Yes, Sophie,

597
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: what the hell she looks? What do you want, Sophie,

598
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: You not only have to deal with, you know, all

599
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: of the bed stuff that we talked about, but you

600
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: also have to also have to deal with us. Um,

601
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: So what what do you do to compress? And clear

602
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: and clear clear, comprest Each and every one of you

603
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: are the best. So let's let's start there. Uh. I

604
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: really like uh making food for my friends, and uh

605
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: like meeting a friend for coffee and just like walking

606
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: outside or like finding like a little place that's like

607
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: a local place and just when and when you go in,

608
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: there's like barely anyone in there, but then you get

609
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: to talk to the people that work there and then

610
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: order a nice little dessert or something. It's that kind

611
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: of thing that I'm like, I'm like, I have friends.

612
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: That's literally what I read it. I said it and

613
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: sounded horrible. Um. And then like as obviously like having

614
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: pets and being around animals is really solid, but um,

615
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: it's also just like having a healthy balance of you know,

616
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: focusing on a lot of the negative stuff but really

617
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: also putting your energy into a lot of the positive stories.

618
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people feel like it

619
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: could Happen Here is tends to lean towards the negative.

620
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: But I really feel like we're a hopeful show, and

621
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: I feel like as as a network cools, the media

622
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: tries to to to lean lean towards the hope and find,

623
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: you know, the good and the bad. And you know,

624
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: that's what we have shows like cool People did Cool Stuff,

625
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: which is with Margaret Killjoy that that really helps balance

626
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: out a lot of the other things. So yeah, I

627
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: think finding the good in the bad, uh, eating yummy

628
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: food with your friends and petting all the you can.

629
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: You know. I also think a huge thing for all

630
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: of us is taking plenty of alpha brain supplement. Um,

631
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: all right, thank you, thank you for listening to It

632
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: could Happen Here. If you have have have a have

633
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: a good year of discord. It could Happen Here is

634
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media and more podcasts from

635
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone media dot com,

636
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

637
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

638
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

639
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media dot com. Slash sources. Thanks for listening,