WEBVTT - Bruce Springsteen 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:23.756 Pushkin Describing Bruce Springstein as a great American singer songwriter 0:00:24.036 --> 0:00:28.236 is a massive understatement. He's the boss, and at this point, 0:00:28.676 --> 0:00:32.876 five decades into his remarkable career, Bruce Springsteen is also 0:00:33.036 --> 0:00:38.796 a national treasure. His voice is unmistakable. Classic anthems like 0:00:38.916 --> 0:00:42.436 Born to Run, Hungry Heart, and jungle Land defined to 0:00:42.436 --> 0:00:46.996 the American working class psyche in the seventies and eighties. Today, 0:00:47.036 --> 0:00:50.716 Bruce has reached rarefied air. He sold more than one 0:00:50.796 --> 0:00:55.156 hundred and fifty million albums worldwide, and he's won twenty Grammys, 0:00:55.836 --> 0:00:59.156 and at seventy one years old, there's still no stopping. 0:01:00.116 --> 0:01:02.276 He recorded his latest album, Letter to You, with the 0:01:02.276 --> 0:01:06.076 E Street Band in just four days. The album dives 0:01:06.116 --> 0:01:09.116 deep into the theme of loss and also includes three 0:01:09.236 --> 0:01:12.756 songs that Bruce wrote fifty years ago. In this interview 0:01:12.756 --> 0:01:16.476 with Malcolm Gladwell and Rick Rubin, Bruce Springsteen talks about 0:01:16.476 --> 0:01:19.516 how his Irish and Italian sides have physically manifested into 0:01:19.596 --> 0:01:23.036 songs over the years. He also describes the moment when 0:01:23.076 --> 0:01:26.196 Barack Obama gave him the idea for his intimate Broadway show, 0:01:26.676 --> 0:01:28.876 and how listening to Born to Run forty five years 0:01:28.876 --> 0:01:31.996 after it was released, made Bruce realise just how good 0:01:32.036 --> 0:01:38.236 he really is. This is broken record liner notes for 0:01:38.356 --> 0:01:42.596 the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Malcolm Gladwell, Rick 0:01:42.716 --> 0:01:48.756 Rubin and Bruce Springsteen. Congratulations on the new album. Thank you, 0:01:48.836 --> 0:01:54.236 my friend. It's really good. Thank you, Thank you very much. 0:01:54.556 --> 0:01:56.996 I appreciate it. Is it the first time that you 0:01:57.076 --> 0:02:00.676 recorded live with the band in this way? We have 0:02:00.876 --> 0:02:05.876 had instances where it was not uncommon for us to 0:02:05.996 --> 0:02:09.996 get the band and track in the studio and then 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:16.356 overdub instruments, replace instruments, and over re sing vocals, and 0:02:16.956 --> 0:02:19.436 that was a pretty common way for us to record 0:02:19.516 --> 0:02:23.196 in the seventies, and we would occasionally hit something where 0:02:24.076 --> 0:02:27.516 it was completely live. The record Darkness on the Edge 0:02:27.516 --> 0:02:31.196 of Town is completely live born in the USA. That 0:02:31.356 --> 0:02:34.676 one cut is completely live, but it would it was 0:02:34.996 --> 0:02:38.116 a bit of an exception, and so we've never had 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:42.556 a situation where we've brought the entire band in, restricted 0:02:42.596 --> 0:02:46.076 ourselves to simply the instruments that are in the band, 0:02:46.556 --> 0:02:50.716 and then cut everything live, including the lead vocal at 0:02:50.756 --> 0:02:54.396 one time, and we did three hours a song, two 0:02:54.436 --> 0:03:00.116 songs a day. Amazing, amazing, and both Darkness and Born 0:03:00.196 --> 0:03:04.356 to Run took a year more to record. Yeah, they 0:03:04.636 --> 0:03:07.996 Born to Run was a good six or no, probably 0:03:08.036 --> 0:03:10.956 a year. Born in the USA was a year. Darkness 0:03:10.996 --> 0:03:12.676 on the Edge of Town was a year. They were 0:03:12.716 --> 0:03:16.756 all long records because I was searching for the record. 0:03:16.876 --> 0:03:19.756 That wasn't the recording that took a long time. It 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:22.916 was the fact that I was searching for my album 0:03:23.796 --> 0:03:28.156 in the midst of say twenty thirty forty songs and 0:03:29.156 --> 0:03:32.196 trying to find out what I had to say, so 0:03:33.756 --> 0:03:37.876 that in this case I had basically I think I 0:03:37.956 --> 0:03:40.796 might have one outtake from this record or something, but 0:03:41.116 --> 0:03:43.636 it's all bay. These were the songs that I had. 0:03:44.636 --> 0:03:49.236 They all congealed because I wrote them within about ten days. Wow, 0:03:49.356 --> 0:03:52.076 is that unusual for that to happen a big group 0:03:52.116 --> 0:03:55.796 of songs in a short period of time. Had a 0:03:55.796 --> 0:03:59.556 record Nebraska where I did that about three weeks. I 0:03:59.596 --> 0:04:02.436 had a record Tunnel of Love, where I wrote most 0:04:02.436 --> 0:04:05.836 of the songs in about three weeks. But it's also 0:04:05.956 --> 0:04:09.076 not in common to spend a year and a half 0:04:09.236 --> 0:04:12.196 trying to find an album. So when the when the 0:04:12.436 --> 0:04:17.076 when the stars are aligned, those songs come in a 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:21.836 conceptual package and you know, the gods are with you 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:25.796 and it doesn't take long. Do the lyrics typically come 0:04:25.836 --> 0:04:29.916 first or did the chords come first? Is there any 0:04:29.996 --> 0:04:33.356 rule in the way that songs come to you? No? No. 0:04:34.436 --> 0:04:39.276 When I was younger, I would write the lyrics as poetry. 0:04:39.276 --> 0:04:42.396 All my first album, almost all of the lyrics came 0:04:42.476 --> 0:04:44.996 first because I had in my mind that I was 0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:48.796 that kind of a writer and so, and the lyrics 0:04:48.796 --> 0:04:53.596 were much more dense and a lot more imagery. And 0:04:54.436 --> 0:04:56.876 that was the only record where really I would say 0:04:56.916 --> 0:05:01.036 I wrote lyrics first everything else. Sometimes I start with 0:05:01.196 --> 0:05:04.956 music sometimes that you know, more often you have a line, 0:05:05.796 --> 0:05:09.316 or if you pick the guitar up and you know 0:05:09.316 --> 0:05:11.316 you're lucky. If if you get a title, if you 0:05:11.396 --> 0:05:15.956 get a good title, you're on your way. But sometimes 0:05:15.956 --> 0:05:19.076 you just pick the guitar up and it comes out 0:05:19.116 --> 0:05:22.316 of your mouth. You know that that moment is a 0:05:22.396 --> 0:05:27.716 moment that I have never heard anyone able to explain. 0:05:27.876 --> 0:05:31.396 I don't believe it's explainable, you know, And that's why 0:05:31.476 --> 0:05:34.276 it's creative. That's why it's magic. You know. You take 0:05:34.356 --> 0:05:39.076 at that moment something that is totally not physical, that 0:05:39.196 --> 0:05:47.196 is simply emotional, spiritual, somewhat intellectual and in the air 0:05:47.996 --> 0:05:52.316 becomes physical. It manifests itself as a physical piece of music. 0:05:52.956 --> 0:05:57.916 But what happens at that moment I've never heard anybody describe. Yeah, 0:05:57.956 --> 0:06:00.676 it's a miracle. It's unbelievable when you get to witness 0:06:00.676 --> 0:06:04.436 it happening. And do you experience it? I mean when 0:06:04.436 --> 0:06:09.316 we hear your words often were moved to tears when 0:06:09.796 --> 0:06:11.836 they come to you, do they hit you in that 0:06:11.956 --> 0:06:15.356 emotional way or do you hear them more? As these 0:06:15.356 --> 0:06:18.676 are good lyrics, this makes sense, I like the story. 0:06:18.356 --> 0:06:20.756 Do you feel it the way the listener feels it? 0:06:20.796 --> 0:06:22.916 Or is it even possible for you to know? Now 0:06:23.116 --> 0:06:27.276 I have one leg being the creator, and I have 0:06:27.316 --> 0:06:32.196 another one that's the audience, and they're there simultaneously. And 0:06:32.276 --> 0:06:35.196 if I come up with something that's moving, I think 0:06:35.236 --> 0:06:38.796 I feel the same response even while I'm creating it, 0:06:39.156 --> 0:06:42.156 that the audience is going to feel. You know, So 0:06:42.396 --> 0:06:48.036 you're both you're both creator and audience simultaneously, and partially 0:06:48.516 --> 0:06:51.956 by being the audience, it's assisting you in judging the 0:06:52.076 --> 0:06:55.556 quality of what you've done. Yeah, it's a great feeling, 0:06:55.636 --> 0:06:58.356 that feeling of I guess that's the reason we do it. 0:06:58.916 --> 0:07:01.676 It's the best feeling in the world. There's nothing like 0:07:01.796 --> 0:07:05.316 that moment when you go there, it is goddamn. I 0:07:05.396 --> 0:07:08.476 knew I had one more in me, you know. It's 0:07:08.516 --> 0:07:12.036 one of those moments. And leading up to this album, 0:07:12.116 --> 0:07:15.756 how much was planned before the songs came in? Other words, 0:07:15.756 --> 0:07:18.276 did the songs lead the charge or were you thinking, 0:07:18.476 --> 0:07:20.156 I really want to make an album. It's been a while. 0:07:20.156 --> 0:07:23.156 What do you feel like? Well, I may feel like 0:07:23.316 --> 0:07:26.836 I may go My work with the E Street Band 0:07:27.076 --> 0:07:31.756 is cyclical, so I'll work on some solo projects, but 0:07:31.876 --> 0:07:35.436 I will cycle my way back around to feeling like, Okay, 0:07:35.716 --> 0:07:37.676 I want to work with my band, I want to 0:07:37.716 --> 0:07:40.476 make an album. For lack of a better word, rock 0:07:40.596 --> 0:07:46.036 music and timing, you know, so you start to get hungry. 0:07:46.236 --> 0:07:49.756 It's like getting hungry for a steak, you know. It's like, Okay, 0:07:49.836 --> 0:07:52.076 I think I'm hungry for a steak tonight, you know. 0:07:52.516 --> 0:07:54.916 And it's a similar thing. You get hungry to work 0:07:54.916 --> 0:07:57.436 with the guys. You get hungry to make a certain 0:07:57.516 --> 0:08:00.476 kind of music, to reach a certain type of audience. 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:06.356 And it's more of an inner drive that that that's 0:08:06.396 --> 0:08:10.556 the first thing that you experience and then if you're lucky, 0:08:10.676 --> 0:08:13.236 you know you'll catch a metaphor you'll catch a title, 0:08:13.276 --> 0:08:16.116 You'll catch the lines, and songs start to lead the way. 0:08:16.396 --> 0:08:19.276 Is there a difference between the way you write for 0:08:19.316 --> 0:08:21.476 the EA Street Band and the way you do solo things? 0:08:22.676 --> 0:08:26.756 If you take say my last two records, I made 0:08:26.756 --> 0:08:29.796 a record called Western Stars, and if you if you 0:08:29.876 --> 0:08:33.036 looked at the characters on that record, there's a very 0:08:33.156 --> 0:08:37.036 isolated sort of American persona that I wrote from. And 0:08:37.076 --> 0:08:39.596 if you, if you judge it, with this record, I'm 0:08:39.636 --> 0:08:42.836 in the middle of a community on this record. So 0:08:43.636 --> 0:08:47.356 when I work with the band, very often, I'll be 0:08:47.396 --> 0:08:51.156 writing from the inside of a community. Outward, when I 0:08:51.196 --> 0:08:55.636 work on my own, I'm studying that sort of isolated 0:08:55.676 --> 0:09:01.996 American part of the American character, so it will thematically, 0:09:02.036 --> 0:09:05.076 I'll move in different places. Can you describe the sort 0:09:05.116 --> 0:09:08.756 of a little more about the emotional feeling of those 0:09:08.756 --> 0:09:12.036 two I mean, is writing a song in E Street mode? 0:09:12.556 --> 0:09:14.516 When you say when you're writing inside a community, is 0:09:14.556 --> 0:09:17.836 that satisfying in a different way? Does it feel differently 0:09:17.836 --> 0:09:21.436 in the moment. It's funny because I'm sitting there by myself, 0:09:21.796 --> 0:09:27.396 but I'm imagining this entire sort of community around me, 0:09:28.076 --> 0:09:32.396 and I'm imagining a different world than the world that 0:09:32.436 --> 0:09:36.996 I imagine when I'm writing for a solo project. It's 0:09:37.036 --> 0:09:39.076 just a different place you put your head, you know. 0:09:39.156 --> 0:09:45.516 You just travel to a different sort of emotional geography, 0:09:45.676 --> 0:09:49.396 you know, and you place yourself in that world, and 0:09:50.316 --> 0:09:53.596 you're relating to everything differently. You're relating to the people 0:09:53.636 --> 0:09:56.836 in the songs differently, And I know that eventually I'm 0:09:56.836 --> 0:10:00.276 going to actually physically be in the center of that world, 0:10:00.556 --> 0:10:02.596 which is when I'm at the center of my band 0:10:02.756 --> 0:10:06.676 and we're about to perform or about to record this music. 0:10:07.276 --> 0:10:13.156 And so it's a bit of a preparation for actually 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:17.396 initially being in that world within the band and then 0:10:17.516 --> 0:10:20.236 going out and playing that music and being within that 0:10:20.276 --> 0:10:25.516 world within your audience. Whereas when I'm performing or writing 0:10:25.516 --> 0:10:28.276 for a solo project, I may or may not tour. 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:36.996 I'm really character driven and writing from a more another 0:10:37.076 --> 0:10:39.356 part of my personality. I guess the way I would 0:10:39.756 --> 0:10:42.836 describe it as I'm writing from the Irish side of 0:10:42.876 --> 0:10:47.836 my personality, which is moodier and darker and gloomier. And 0:10:47.836 --> 0:10:49.916 when I'm writing for the band, I'm writing from the 0:10:49.996 --> 0:10:54.676 Italian side of my personality, which is Hale brother. Well 0:10:54.796 --> 0:10:59.076 you know, well met you know, so uh so useful 0:10:59.156 --> 0:11:02.756 to have those two sides, it is. I was very lucky, 0:11:03.036 --> 0:11:06.316 you know. My father was very Irish in personality and 0:11:06.396 --> 0:11:10.876 my mother was totally Italian, and I sort of absorbed 0:11:10.996 --> 0:11:15.876 both of their approaches towards life, and when I became creative, 0:11:16.316 --> 0:11:22.116 I really drew on both of their sort of all 0:11:22.156 --> 0:11:26.876 of our ethnic background. There. You've talked about your dad's depression, yeah, 0:11:26.916 --> 0:11:30.116 and that you've you have some of those seeds in you, 0:11:30.956 --> 0:11:34.076 oh yeah. And what are the things that have helped 0:11:34.116 --> 0:11:36.476 you to move through those And when was your first 0:11:36.516 --> 0:11:40.956 experience of recognizing, oh, I have this too. I hit 0:11:40.996 --> 0:11:45.356 a wall when I was thirty two years old. I 0:11:45.396 --> 0:11:50.636 wrote Nebraska, And after Nebraska, I traveled across the country 0:11:50.676 --> 0:11:53.476 with a friend of mine and it was on that 0:11:53.556 --> 0:11:59.156 trip that I realized something was amiss. I was always 0:11:59.196 --> 0:12:03.396 able to count on the miles, the music to a suage, 0:12:03.436 --> 0:12:07.516 whatever my demons were, but on that trip it was 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:09.796 the first time for some reason where it felt like 0:12:10.156 --> 0:12:13.236 it's just not doing the job. And when I got 0:12:13.276 --> 0:12:20.516 to La I was completely an anxious mess and I 0:12:20.596 --> 0:12:24.476 had no idea what to do with myself next, and 0:12:24.836 --> 0:12:27.756 all I knew was I need help. I've hit the wall. 0:12:27.876 --> 0:12:30.076 I don't know where to go with this. My usual 0:12:30.156 --> 0:12:35.356 remedies that worked in my twenties, music, this, that, touring, 0:12:35.556 --> 0:12:39.356 traveling are not working for me anymore. I've got to 0:12:39.356 --> 0:12:42.556 find another answer. And I began analysis when I was 0:12:42.596 --> 0:12:47.676 thirty two. I did it for thirty years. Change your life, Yes, absolutely, 0:12:47.796 --> 0:12:51.316 it gave me the rest of my life, you know, 0:12:51.436 --> 0:12:55.956 the fulfillment of family, of love and being able to 0:12:56.076 --> 0:13:01.756 be loved, of delving deeper into your own history and 0:13:01.796 --> 0:13:07.116 your own essence, and that affecting your creativity. It gave 0:13:07.156 --> 0:13:11.796 me another The way that I would describe it as 0:13:11.836 --> 0:13:15.316 you sort of you're standing in front of a brick 0:13:15.396 --> 0:13:18.676 wall and you think you're seeing all that the world is, 0:13:19.156 --> 0:13:23.036 and then suddenly you start pushing and suddenly a brick 0:13:23.116 --> 0:13:26.956 drops out and you look through into this complete other 0:13:27.196 --> 0:13:33.516 experience and existence and you go, fuck, you know WHOA 0:13:33.956 --> 0:13:38.316 I've been living on such a limited level and it 0:13:38.356 --> 0:13:43.236 just expands your expanded my vision. It also helped it 0:13:43.356 --> 0:13:47.676 helped rid me of my depression. That and also pharmacology 0:13:47.756 --> 0:13:51.036 has played a big part in giving me my life back, 0:13:51.156 --> 0:13:54.836 and that's been very important. Also, it affect your writing, 0:13:54.876 --> 0:13:59.996 I imagine. No, I have never noticed that my depression 0:14:00.076 --> 0:14:03.756 ever affected my writing, or that any medications I've ever 0:14:03.796 --> 0:14:08.676 taken affected my writing. When I was deeply, deeply, deeply depressed, 0:14:08.716 --> 0:14:12.156 I could always still work and write. For some reason, 0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:17.156 it never affected that part of my creative life or personality. 0:14:17.636 --> 0:14:19.876 I'm almost asking the other way around, like, do you 0:14:19.916 --> 0:14:23.876 look at the songs you wrote pre therapy as written 0:14:23.876 --> 0:14:28.076 by a smaller aspect of who you are, and that 0:14:28.236 --> 0:14:31.956 through therapy you've expanded your vision. I don't know if 0:14:31.956 --> 0:14:35.036 that's I'm leading. That's a leading question. Yeah it is, 0:14:35.156 --> 0:14:37.796 and I can tell you that no, I don't because 0:14:37.796 --> 0:14:41.516 I look back and I The forty fifth anniversary of 0:14:41.876 --> 0:14:44.996 Born to Run was about a week or two ago, 0:14:45.436 --> 0:14:46.876 and so I was with a buddy of mine and 0:14:46.876 --> 0:14:48.796 I said, Hey, I'm going to do an anniversary cruise. 0:14:48.836 --> 0:14:51.716 I'm play Born to Run start to finish. I was like, okay. 0:14:51.836 --> 0:14:54.436 So Sunday morning, we got in a car, put it on, 0:14:54.876 --> 0:14:56.876 and I realized, that's one of the best records I've 0:14:56.876 --> 0:15:00.476 ever made. You know, Yeah, if I listened to Nebraska, 0:15:00.516 --> 0:15:02.796 I go, that's one of the best records I ever made, 0:15:03.156 --> 0:15:10.636 so the dealing with my own personal depression. The material 0:15:10.716 --> 0:15:16.076 I wrote previous to that really was unscathed and untouched 0:15:16.516 --> 0:15:19.156 and did and it did not limit the scope of 0:15:19.196 --> 0:15:23.276 my writing in any way, in any real way, I wrote. 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:25.236 I look back and say, some of my best records 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:31.676 were pre pre analysis and post analysis. Has music inspired 0:15:31.716 --> 0:15:34.316 your writing more than anything else? Or has literature played 0:15:34.316 --> 0:15:38.916 a role in lyrics and song structure for you? Everything 0:15:39.036 --> 0:15:44.996 I learned musically I probably learned between nineteen sixty five 0:15:45.196 --> 0:15:50.396 and nineteen sixty eight, between when I was fifteen and eighteen, 0:15:50.916 --> 0:15:55.076 I was a student, an astute student of Top forty radio, 0:15:55.796 --> 0:16:00.916 where the masters of songwriting and record making were existed 0:16:00.956 --> 0:16:04.436 at that moment in time. I studied that like it 0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:08.956 was for my master's degree, and I would say that 0:16:09.196 --> 0:16:13.796 baby into the early seventies, but shortly thereafter I stopped 0:16:14.036 --> 0:16:20.276 looking towards music for specific information, and I began in 0:16:20.316 --> 0:16:25.356 the late seventies to get more inspiration from reading a 0:16:25.356 --> 0:16:29.516 lot of film, a lot of noir, James M. Kin, 0:16:29.716 --> 0:16:35.436 Flannery O'Connor, Jim Thompson, and from watching films john Ford 0:16:35.676 --> 0:16:41.996 and Howard Hawks, and a lot of film noir. So 0:16:42.516 --> 0:16:46.116 I began to get a lot more inspiration from literature 0:16:46.116 --> 0:16:49.316 and film the older that I got. Just talk a 0:16:49.356 --> 0:16:52.596 little bit about more about this album. Many things fascinating 0:16:52.596 --> 0:16:55.316 about it, but one was that you include a number 0:16:55.396 --> 0:17:00.436 of songs from way back when. Yeah, First of all, 0:17:01.076 --> 0:17:04.076 what was behind that decision? Start with that, why? Why? 0:17:04.156 --> 0:17:05.916 Why did you? Why did you want to put these? 0:17:06.236 --> 0:17:10.156 Particularly if I was the priest. As most creative things, 0:17:11.156 --> 0:17:17.036 it's a non decision. I don't operate from deciding first. 0:17:17.516 --> 0:17:23.236 I operate from an internal hunger and my decisions come 0:17:23.836 --> 0:17:27.356 from there. So in this case, I happened to record 0:17:27.516 --> 0:17:30.196 a song that's on the record called Janey Needs a Shooter, 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:32.236 and I recorded it. I said, I'm going to record 0:17:32.236 --> 0:17:34.396 this for a record day in the United States. You 0:17:34.476 --> 0:17:37.316 put one song out, but I recorded it with the 0:17:37.356 --> 0:17:39.476 band the way that we cut darkness on the Edge 0:17:39.516 --> 0:17:42.196 of Town, and it sounded like darkness on the Edge 0:17:42.196 --> 0:17:44.916 of Town, and I said, Wow, that's how the band 0:17:45.156 --> 0:17:48.996 really sounds when we play live. And I haven't caught 0:17:49.036 --> 0:17:52.076 that in the studio in a long time. And so 0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:55.196 I'm going to keep this for some future album, and 0:17:55.236 --> 0:17:58.836 so having one song that was forty five years old. 0:17:59.356 --> 0:18:04.316 I then was working on a box set of outtakes, 0:18:05.116 --> 0:18:08.916 the first of which was an entire album of songs 0:18:09.156 --> 0:18:12.156 I cut for John Hammond when he asked me to 0:18:12.236 --> 0:18:15.036 make a demo. He produced a demo for me when 0:18:15.036 --> 0:18:19.356 I first went to Columbia. These songs were amongst those songs, 0:18:19.636 --> 0:18:21.236 and I said, well, a couple of these might be 0:18:21.276 --> 0:18:24.196 fun for the band to play. So it just kind 0:18:24.196 --> 0:18:27.436 of fell into place, and when we played them, they 0:18:27.476 --> 0:18:30.276 were a lot of fun to play, and the band 0:18:30.356 --> 0:18:33.196 came up with great arrangements for them, and and that's 0:18:33.196 --> 0:18:35.596 how they ended up on the record. Why didn't these 0:18:35.636 --> 0:18:39.556 songs make it onto earlier records just by chance or no? 0:18:39.796 --> 0:18:42.396 It's like, you know, you're you're so fickle as an 0:18:42.556 --> 0:18:45.796 artists are so fickle, you know they you know you 0:18:45.876 --> 0:18:48.996 have this music and then you write something new and boom, 0:18:49.036 --> 0:18:51.516 you forget about that and you're onto the next thing. 0:18:51.596 --> 0:18:54.476 By the time I had a chance to record my 0:18:55.156 --> 0:19:00.156 first album, i'd already made an album that but I 0:19:00.916 --> 0:19:03.476 put that one aside because I had new music and 0:19:03.516 --> 0:19:05.756 I wanted to put what was what I had newest 0:19:05.876 --> 0:19:10.356 out and so there was an album was pre Greetings 0:19:10.356 --> 0:19:13.636 from Asbury Park that was all of this acoustic music 0:19:13.676 --> 0:19:16.876 with this type of lyric writing, and more than an album, 0:19:16.916 --> 0:19:19.076 almost two albums and an album and a half that 0:19:19.236 --> 0:19:23.276 never got released. How does it feel, too, for the 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:27.076 first time release song that you wrote years ago? Yeah, 0:19:27.396 --> 0:19:29.396 the song, the two songs if I were the priest 0:19:29.436 --> 0:19:33.876 and song for obums fifty years old, and it felt 0:19:33.876 --> 0:19:36.636 like I wrote them yesterday, except except I wouldn't write 0:19:36.676 --> 0:19:39.916 in that style now. You know that very verbose, heavy 0:19:39.956 --> 0:19:42.916 amount of images. I just don't write that way anymore. 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:48.036 I write more colloquially, and so it was kind of 0:19:48.076 --> 0:19:51.596 fun to wrap my head around, you know, singing all 0:19:51.596 --> 0:19:54.236 those words again. I realized, gee, this was really a 0:19:54.276 --> 0:19:57.996 great part of my writing, my writing life, and I 0:19:58.076 --> 0:20:00.916 kind of left it too soon because of the new 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:04.516 Dylan comparisons. I got sensitive about it, and I put 0:20:04.556 --> 0:20:07.476 it away a little too soon, because really I kind 0:20:07.476 --> 0:20:10.996 of had my own style of writing in that style, 0:20:11.676 --> 0:20:15.476 and looking back, I said, I wouldn't have mind making 0:20:15.516 --> 0:20:18.396 another record or two in that style. But I was 0:20:18.476 --> 0:20:22.036 very sensitive to I was young, sensitive about creating my 0:20:22.076 --> 0:20:24.916 own identity, and so I left that style of writing 0:20:24.956 --> 0:20:28.956 behind rather quickly. You hear it on the first three albums, 0:20:29.276 --> 0:20:32.276 and you hear it less each album, you know, and 0:20:32.356 --> 0:20:34.996 by the time I get the darkness, I'm done with it. 0:20:35.196 --> 0:20:38.156 There's still time to make those albums, you know. I 0:20:38.236 --> 0:20:40.676 know I got all the materials sitting there. I may 0:20:40.756 --> 0:20:43.916 do that. So you played if I was a priest 0:20:43.956 --> 0:20:47.236 for Hammond. You were auditioning for Hammond. Yes, one of 0:20:47.276 --> 0:20:51.076 the most legendary figures in rock and roll history. Could 0:20:51.116 --> 0:20:53.196 you take us back to that moment? Were you scared? 0:20:53.876 --> 0:20:56.836 I was on the elevator going up to what might 0:20:56.876 --> 0:21:00.636 have been the thirtieth floor in Black Rock, which was 0:21:01.636 --> 0:21:04.996 with my manager and he John Hammond, to give you 0:21:05.316 --> 0:21:08.156 an idea what the record business was like. We're seeing 0:21:08.796 --> 0:21:12.276 no buddies who he did not know at all off 0:21:12.276 --> 0:21:15.756 the streets of New York City, who simply talked their 0:21:15.796 --> 0:21:19.596 way through. His secretary Michapelle was very good at that 0:21:19.756 --> 0:21:23.556 and he did it. So here we have. We've got 0:21:23.596 --> 0:21:26.996 a thirty minute audition with John Hammond. We go up. 0:21:27.476 --> 0:21:30.076 On the way up, I'm going, well, it's like this, 0:21:30.596 --> 0:21:33.916 I have nothing. When I come back, I'm not going 0:21:33.996 --> 0:21:37.796 to have any less than I have right now, so 0:21:37.956 --> 0:21:41.356 I'm trying to talk myself into not being nervous. It 0:21:41.516 --> 0:21:45.356 almost worked, but not quite. What else did you play 0:21:45.396 --> 0:21:48.876 for him? Do you remember I played? If I were 0:21:48.916 --> 0:21:51.116 the priest? I played The first song I played for 0:21:51.196 --> 0:21:53.316 him was It's Hard to Be a Saint in the City, 0:21:53.556 --> 0:21:56.076 which ended up on my first record, and I believe 0:21:56.116 --> 0:21:58.956 I played a song for him called Growing Up. I 0:21:59.036 --> 0:22:01.956 only played about three songs and he and after I 0:22:01.956 --> 0:22:04.956 played I played one song, and he said, you gotta 0:22:04.996 --> 0:22:07.756 be on Columbia Records. Wow, oh wow, it was that. 0:22:08.756 --> 0:22:11.236 It was that sudden. He didn't wait to hear the 0:22:11.276 --> 0:22:13.156 second one. I played the first, So you gotta be 0:22:13.236 --> 0:22:18.956 on Columbia Records. I said, okay. We always invite the 0:22:18.996 --> 0:22:23.036 people we interview on broken record to play little bits 0:22:23.076 --> 0:22:26.076 of songs that they want to I would love I'd 0:22:26.116 --> 0:22:27.916 love to hear a piece of whatever you want. But 0:22:27.956 --> 0:22:30.276 I was going to suggest, if I was a priest, 0:22:30.276 --> 0:22:33.396 can we recreate the John Hammond audition here? Oh man, 0:22:33.636 --> 0:22:35.676 I don't know. I don't I don't know if I 0:22:35.836 --> 0:22:41.076 even know those words. I know, because there's a yeah wait. 0:22:41.716 --> 0:22:44.636 John Hammond apparently said the minute he heard that song, 0:22:44.676 --> 0:22:47.356 he knew you were a Catholic. Oh yeah, yeah, he 0:22:47.436 --> 0:22:50.796 was really excited about it. That's what he loved. He 0:22:50.916 --> 0:22:55.156 loved the screwed up Catholicism in it. Wait, it was 0:22:55.236 --> 0:22:58.636 he Catholic? I don't know. I don't know. I don't 0:22:58.636 --> 0:23:03.436 think so it's funny that he could spot it right away. Yeah, 0:23:03.516 --> 0:23:05.556 but you're a You're a double cat, like you're a 0:23:05.596 --> 0:23:08.556 special breed with Italian one side, Irish on the other. 0:23:08.596 --> 0:23:11.036 You're like a You're like the most powerful kind of 0:23:11.156 --> 0:23:15.476 Catholic hybrid. Yeah. We're steep steeped, steeped, steeped in it. 0:23:15.556 --> 0:23:19.076 So it's my lot in life. We'll be back with 0:23:19.076 --> 0:23:26.836 Bruce Springsteen after a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin, 0:23:27.116 --> 0:23:31.276 Malcolm Gladwell and Bruce Springsteen. How is your spiritual life now? 0:23:31.476 --> 0:23:35.236 What's your spiritual life like? Uh? I don't think about 0:23:35.236 --> 0:23:37.596 it very much. I guess if if I look at it, 0:23:37.676 --> 0:23:39.636 i'd say it comes through in my music, you know. 0:23:39.836 --> 0:23:43.796 And and then and just the general your general behavior 0:23:43.916 --> 0:23:47.716 during the day. Uh, and what you see reflected in 0:23:47.756 --> 0:23:50.636 your children as to how well you've done and how 0:23:50.676 --> 0:23:54.156 well you've lived over the years. You know. I got 0:23:54.196 --> 0:23:58.196 some solid citizens that we've raised and makes Patty and 0:23:58.276 --> 0:24:02.556 I proud, And they got good inner their inner core 0:24:02.876 --> 0:24:08.516 is strong and and and righteous, and uh so we go, well, 0:24:08.556 --> 0:24:10.756 we must have something right, you know, we must be. 0:24:10.876 --> 0:24:14.956 We didn't. We had no dogma or religion, but we 0:24:15.076 --> 0:24:17.436 just had a way of living that I hope passed 0:24:17.476 --> 0:24:20.716 on a little bit of righteousness for them. And so 0:24:21.276 --> 0:24:24.596 uh if I if I observe it in any way, 0:24:24.636 --> 0:24:27.836 it's purely through listening and looking back at my songs 0:24:27.876 --> 0:24:32.796 and seeing where they were influenced by my Catholic faith 0:24:32.876 --> 0:24:37.516 and and or by a spirituality in general. I basically 0:24:37.556 --> 0:24:42.236 consider myself a spiritual songwriter in that primarily I want 0:24:42.276 --> 0:24:44.796 you to dance. I want to entertain you. I want 0:24:44.836 --> 0:24:47.276 you to listen to my music and wash your clothes 0:24:47.636 --> 0:24:51.236 and and and vacuum your floor. And I'm also trying 0:24:51.276 --> 0:24:56.076 to address your soul. So beautiful and this album, I mean, 0:24:56.116 --> 0:25:01.036 it's a powerful steam of loss in this album. Yeah 0:25:01.756 --> 0:25:03.556 you talk, I mean you you have lost a lot 0:25:03.556 --> 0:25:06.076 of people close to you over the last few years. Well, 0:25:06.076 --> 0:25:13.356 you know, death is funny because when you're Italian and Irish, 0:25:12.836 --> 0:25:15.476 you get very used to death. When you're very young 0:25:15.596 --> 0:25:20.036 because of the wakes, you know, I was too many 0:25:20.076 --> 0:25:23.596 wakes when I was six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old, 0:25:23.956 --> 0:25:26.116 where the body is just in the room for days 0:25:26.156 --> 0:25:28.716 at a time and people are drinking and laughing and 0:25:29.716 --> 0:25:34.436 visiting and everyone's excited to be together. And I went 0:25:34.436 --> 0:25:36.956 through a lot of that as a child. And then 0:25:37.036 --> 0:25:39.956 you leave home, you reach your twenties, and for a 0:25:40.036 --> 0:25:43.596