1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:23,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin Describing Bruce Springstein as a great American singer songwriter 2 00:00:24,036 --> 00:00:28,236 Speaker 1: is a massive understatement. He's the boss, and at this point, 3 00:00:28,676 --> 00:00:32,876 Speaker 1: five decades into his remarkable career, Bruce Springsteen is also 4 00:00:33,036 --> 00:00:38,796 Speaker 1: a national treasure. His voice is unmistakable. Classic anthems like 5 00:00:38,916 --> 00:00:42,436 Speaker 1: Born to Run, Hungry Heart, and jungle Land defined to 6 00:00:42,436 --> 00:00:46,996 Speaker 1: the American working class psyche in the seventies and eighties. Today, 7 00:00:47,036 --> 00:00:50,716 Speaker 1: Bruce has reached rarefied air. He sold more than one 8 00:00:50,796 --> 00:00:55,156 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million albums worldwide, and he's won twenty Grammys, 9 00:00:55,836 --> 00:00:59,156 Speaker 1: and at seventy one years old, there's still no stopping. 10 00:01:00,116 --> 00:01:02,276 Speaker 1: He recorded his latest album, Letter to You, with the 11 00:01:02,276 --> 00:01:06,076 Speaker 1: E Street Band in just four days. The album dives 12 00:01:06,116 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: deep into the theme of loss and also includes three 13 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,756 Speaker 1: songs that Bruce wrote fifty years ago. In this interview 14 00:01:12,756 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 1: with Malcolm Gladwell and Rick Rubin, Bruce Springsteen talks about 15 00:01:16,476 --> 00:01:19,516 Speaker 1: how his Irish and Italian sides have physically manifested into 16 00:01:19,596 --> 00:01:23,036 Speaker 1: songs over the years. He also describes the moment when 17 00:01:23,076 --> 00:01:26,196 Speaker 1: Barack Obama gave him the idea for his intimate Broadway show, 18 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:28,876 Speaker 1: and how listening to Born to Run forty five years 19 00:01:28,876 --> 00:01:31,996 Speaker 1: after it was released, made Bruce realise just how good 20 00:01:32,036 --> 00:01:38,236 Speaker 1: he really is. This is broken record liner notes for 21 00:01:38,356 --> 00:01:42,596 Speaker 1: the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Malcolm Gladwell, Rick 22 00:01:42,716 --> 00:01:48,756 Speaker 1: Rubin and Bruce Springsteen. Congratulations on the new album. Thank you, 23 00:01:48,836 --> 00:01:54,236 Speaker 1: my friend. It's really good. Thank you, Thank you very much. 24 00:01:54,556 --> 00:01:56,996 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Is it the first time that you 25 00:01:57,076 --> 00:02:00,676 Speaker 1: recorded live with the band in this way? We have 26 00:02:00,876 --> 00:02:05,876 Speaker 1: had instances where it was not uncommon for us to 27 00:02:05,996 --> 00:02:09,996 Speaker 1: get the band and track in the studio and then 28 00:02:10,196 --> 00:02:16,356 Speaker 1: overdub instruments, replace instruments, and over re sing vocals, and 29 00:02:16,956 --> 00:02:19,436 Speaker 1: that was a pretty common way for us to record 30 00:02:19,516 --> 00:02:23,196 Speaker 1: in the seventies, and we would occasionally hit something where 31 00:02:24,076 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 1: it was completely live. The record Darkness on the Edge 32 00:02:27,516 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 1: of Town is completely live born in the USA. That 33 00:02:31,356 --> 00:02:34,676 Speaker 1: one cut is completely live, but it would it was 34 00:02:34,996 --> 00:02:38,116 Speaker 1: a bit of an exception, and so we've never had 35 00:02:38,156 --> 00:02:42,556 Speaker 1: a situation where we've brought the entire band in, restricted 36 00:02:42,596 --> 00:02:46,076 Speaker 1: ourselves to simply the instruments that are in the band, 37 00:02:46,556 --> 00:02:50,716 Speaker 1: and then cut everything live, including the lead vocal at 38 00:02:50,756 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 1: one time, and we did three hours a song, two 39 00:02:54,436 --> 00:03:00,116 Speaker 1: songs a day. Amazing, amazing, and both Darkness and Born 40 00:03:00,196 --> 00:03:04,356 Speaker 1: to Run took a year more to record. Yeah, they 41 00:03:04,636 --> 00:03:07,996 Speaker 1: Born to Run was a good six or no, probably 42 00:03:08,036 --> 00:03:10,956 Speaker 1: a year. Born in the USA was a year. Darkness 43 00:03:10,996 --> 00:03:12,676 Speaker 1: on the Edge of Town was a year. They were 44 00:03:12,716 --> 00:03:16,756 Speaker 1: all long records because I was searching for the record. 45 00:03:16,876 --> 00:03:19,756 Speaker 1: That wasn't the recording that took a long time. It 46 00:03:19,836 --> 00:03:22,916 Speaker 1: was the fact that I was searching for my album 47 00:03:23,796 --> 00:03:28,156 Speaker 1: in the midst of say twenty thirty forty songs and 48 00:03:29,156 --> 00:03:32,196 Speaker 1: trying to find out what I had to say, so 49 00:03:33,756 --> 00:03:37,876 Speaker 1: that in this case I had basically I think I 50 00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:40,796 Speaker 1: might have one outtake from this record or something, but 51 00:03:41,116 --> 00:03:43,636 Speaker 1: it's all bay. These were the songs that I had. 52 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:49,236 Speaker 1: They all congealed because I wrote them within about ten days. Wow, 53 00:03:49,356 --> 00:03:52,076 Speaker 1: is that unusual for that to happen a big group 54 00:03:52,116 --> 00:03:55,796 Speaker 1: of songs in a short period of time. Had a 55 00:03:55,796 --> 00:03:59,556 Speaker 1: record Nebraska where I did that about three weeks. I 56 00:03:59,596 --> 00:04:02,436 Speaker 1: had a record Tunnel of Love, where I wrote most 57 00:04:02,436 --> 00:04:05,836 Speaker 1: of the songs in about three weeks. But it's also 58 00:04:05,956 --> 00:04:09,076 Speaker 1: not in common to spend a year and a half 59 00:04:09,236 --> 00:04:12,196 Speaker 1: trying to find an album. So when the when the 60 00:04:12,436 --> 00:04:17,076 Speaker 1: when the stars are aligned, those songs come in a 61 00:04:17,356 --> 00:04:21,836 Speaker 1: conceptual package and you know, the gods are with you 62 00:04:21,916 --> 00:04:25,796 Speaker 1: and it doesn't take long. Do the lyrics typically come 63 00:04:25,836 --> 00:04:29,916 Speaker 1: first or did the chords come first? Is there any 64 00:04:29,996 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: rule in the way that songs come to you? No? No. 65 00:04:34,436 --> 00:04:39,276 Speaker 1: When I was younger, I would write the lyrics as poetry. 66 00:04:39,276 --> 00:04:42,396 Speaker 1: All my first album, almost all of the lyrics came 67 00:04:42,476 --> 00:04:44,996 Speaker 1: first because I had in my mind that I was 68 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:48,796 Speaker 1: that kind of a writer and so, and the lyrics 69 00:04:48,796 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 1: were much more dense and a lot more imagery. And 70 00:04:54,436 --> 00:04:56,876 Speaker 1: that was the only record where really I would say 71 00:04:56,916 --> 00:05:01,036 Speaker 1: I wrote lyrics first everything else. Sometimes I start with 72 00:05:01,196 --> 00:05:04,956 Speaker 1: music sometimes that you know, more often you have a line, 73 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:09,316 Speaker 1: or if you pick the guitar up and you know 74 00:05:09,316 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 1: you're lucky. If if you get a title, if you 75 00:05:11,396 --> 00:05:15,956 Speaker 1: get a good title, you're on your way. But sometimes 76 00:05:15,956 --> 00:05:19,076 Speaker 1: you just pick the guitar up and it comes out 77 00:05:19,116 --> 00:05:22,316 Speaker 1: of your mouth. You know that that moment is a 78 00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:27,716 Speaker 1: moment that I have never heard anyone able to explain. 79 00:05:27,876 --> 00:05:31,396 Speaker 1: I don't believe it's explainable, you know, And that's why 80 00:05:31,476 --> 00:05:34,276 Speaker 1: it's creative. That's why it's magic. You know. You take 81 00:05:34,356 --> 00:05:39,076 Speaker 1: at that moment something that is totally not physical, that 82 00:05:39,196 --> 00:05:47,196 Speaker 1: is simply emotional, spiritual, somewhat intellectual and in the air 83 00:05:47,996 --> 00:05:52,316 Speaker 1: becomes physical. It manifests itself as a physical piece of music. 84 00:05:52,956 --> 00:05:57,916 Speaker 1: But what happens at that moment I've never heard anybody describe. Yeah, 85 00:05:57,956 --> 00:06:00,676 Speaker 1: it's a miracle. It's unbelievable when you get to witness 86 00:06:00,676 --> 00:06:04,436 Speaker 1: it happening. And do you experience it? I mean when 87 00:06:04,436 --> 00:06:09,316 Speaker 1: we hear your words often were moved to tears when 88 00:06:09,796 --> 00:06:11,836 Speaker 1: they come to you, do they hit you in that 89 00:06:11,956 --> 00:06:15,356 Speaker 1: emotional way or do you hear them more? As these 90 00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:18,676 Speaker 1: are good lyrics, this makes sense, I like the story. 91 00:06:18,356 --> 00:06:20,756 Speaker 1: Do you feel it the way the listener feels it? 92 00:06:20,796 --> 00:06:22,916 Speaker 1: Or is it even possible for you to know? Now 93 00:06:23,116 --> 00:06:27,276 Speaker 1: I have one leg being the creator, and I have 94 00:06:27,316 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 1: another one that's the audience, and they're there simultaneously. And 95 00:06:32,276 --> 00:06:35,196 Speaker 1: if I come up with something that's moving, I think 96 00:06:35,236 --> 00:06:38,796 Speaker 1: I feel the same response even while I'm creating it, 97 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:42,156 Speaker 1: that the audience is going to feel. You know, So 98 00:06:42,396 --> 00:06:48,036 Speaker 1: you're both you're both creator and audience simultaneously, and partially 99 00:06:48,516 --> 00:06:51,956 Speaker 1: by being the audience, it's assisting you in judging the 100 00:06:52,076 --> 00:06:55,556 Speaker 1: quality of what you've done. Yeah, it's a great feeling, 101 00:06:55,636 --> 00:06:58,356 Speaker 1: that feeling of I guess that's the reason we do it. 102 00:06:58,916 --> 00:07:01,676 Speaker 1: It's the best feeling in the world. There's nothing like 103 00:07:01,796 --> 00:07:05,316 Speaker 1: that moment when you go there, it is goddamn. I 104 00:07:05,396 --> 00:07:08,476 Speaker 1: knew I had one more in me, you know. It's 105 00:07:08,516 --> 00:07:12,036 Speaker 1: one of those moments. And leading up to this album, 106 00:07:12,116 --> 00:07:15,756 Speaker 1: how much was planned before the songs came in? Other words, 107 00:07:15,756 --> 00:07:18,276 Speaker 1: did the songs lead the charge or were you thinking, 108 00:07:18,476 --> 00:07:20,156 Speaker 1: I really want to make an album. It's been a while. 109 00:07:20,156 --> 00:07:23,156 Speaker 1: What do you feel like? Well, I may feel like 110 00:07:23,316 --> 00:07:26,836 Speaker 1: I may go My work with the E Street Band 111 00:07:27,076 --> 00:07:31,756 Speaker 1: is cyclical, so I'll work on some solo projects, but 112 00:07:31,876 --> 00:07:35,436 Speaker 1: I will cycle my way back around to feeling like, Okay, 113 00:07:35,716 --> 00:07:37,676 Speaker 1: I want to work with my band, I want to 114 00:07:37,716 --> 00:07:40,476 Speaker 1: make an album. For lack of a better word, rock 115 00:07:40,596 --> 00:07:46,036 Speaker 1: music and timing, you know, so you start to get hungry. 116 00:07:46,236 --> 00:07:49,756 Speaker 1: It's like getting hungry for a steak, you know. It's like, Okay, 117 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:52,076 Speaker 1: I think I'm hungry for a steak tonight, you know. 118 00:07:52,516 --> 00:07:54,916 Speaker 1: And it's a similar thing. You get hungry to work 119 00:07:54,916 --> 00:07:57,436 Speaker 1: with the guys. You get hungry to make a certain 120 00:07:57,516 --> 00:08:00,476 Speaker 1: kind of music, to reach a certain type of audience. 121 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:06,356 Speaker 1: And it's more of an inner drive that that that's 122 00:08:06,396 --> 00:08:10,556 Speaker 1: the first thing that you experience and then if you're lucky, 123 00:08:10,676 --> 00:08:13,236 Speaker 1: you know you'll catch a metaphor you'll catch a title, 124 00:08:13,276 --> 00:08:16,116 Speaker 1: You'll catch the lines, and songs start to lead the way. 125 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:19,276 Speaker 1: Is there a difference between the way you write for 126 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:21,476 Speaker 1: the EA Street Band and the way you do solo things? 127 00:08:22,676 --> 00:08:26,756 Speaker 1: If you take say my last two records, I made 128 00:08:26,756 --> 00:08:29,796 Speaker 1: a record called Western Stars, and if you if you 129 00:08:29,876 --> 00:08:33,036 Speaker 1: looked at the characters on that record, there's a very 130 00:08:33,156 --> 00:08:37,036 Speaker 1: isolated sort of American persona that I wrote from. And 131 00:08:37,076 --> 00:08:39,596 Speaker 1: if you, if you judge it, with this record, I'm 132 00:08:39,636 --> 00:08:42,836 Speaker 1: in the middle of a community on this record. So 133 00:08:43,636 --> 00:08:47,356 Speaker 1: when I work with the band, very often, I'll be 134 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:51,156 Speaker 1: writing from the inside of a community. Outward, when I 135 00:08:51,196 --> 00:08:55,636 Speaker 1: work on my own, I'm studying that sort of isolated 136 00:08:55,676 --> 00:09:01,996 Speaker 1: American part of the American character, so it will thematically, 137 00:09:02,036 --> 00:09:05,076 Speaker 1: I'll move in different places. Can you describe the sort 138 00:09:05,116 --> 00:09:08,756 Speaker 1: of a little more about the emotional feeling of those 139 00:09:08,756 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 1: two I mean, is writing a song in E Street mode? 140 00:09:12,556 --> 00:09:14,516 Speaker 1: When you say when you're writing inside a community, is 141 00:09:14,556 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 1: that satisfying in a different way? Does it feel differently 142 00:09:17,836 --> 00:09:21,436 Speaker 1: in the moment. It's funny because I'm sitting there by myself, 143 00:09:21,796 --> 00:09:27,396 Speaker 1: but I'm imagining this entire sort of community around me, 144 00:09:28,076 --> 00:09:32,396 Speaker 1: and I'm imagining a different world than the world that 145 00:09:32,436 --> 00:09:36,996 Speaker 1: I imagine when I'm writing for a solo project. It's 146 00:09:37,036 --> 00:09:39,076 Speaker 1: just a different place you put your head, you know. 147 00:09:39,156 --> 00:09:45,516 Speaker 1: You just travel to a different sort of emotional geography, 148 00:09:45,676 --> 00:09:49,396 Speaker 1: you know, and you place yourself in that world, and 149 00:09:50,316 --> 00:09:53,596 Speaker 1: you're relating to everything differently. You're relating to the people 150 00:09:53,636 --> 00:09:56,836 Speaker 1: in the songs differently, And I know that eventually I'm 151 00:09:56,836 --> 00:10:00,276 Speaker 1: going to actually physically be in the center of that world, 152 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 1: which is when I'm at the center of my band 153 00:10:02,756 --> 00:10:06,676 Speaker 1: and we're about to perform or about to record this music. 154 00:10:07,276 --> 00:10:13,156 Speaker 1: And so it's a bit of a preparation for actually 155 00:10:14,436 --> 00:10:17,396 Speaker 1: initially being in that world within the band and then 156 00:10:17,516 --> 00:10:20,236 Speaker 1: going out and playing that music and being within that 157 00:10:20,276 --> 00:10:25,516 Speaker 1: world within your audience. Whereas when I'm performing or writing 158 00:10:25,516 --> 00:10:28,276 Speaker 1: for a solo project, I may or may not tour. 159 00:10:29,196 --> 00:10:36,996 Speaker 1: I'm really character driven and writing from a more another 160 00:10:37,076 --> 00:10:39,356 Speaker 1: part of my personality. I guess the way I would 161 00:10:39,756 --> 00:10:42,836 Speaker 1: describe it as I'm writing from the Irish side of 162 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:47,836 Speaker 1: my personality, which is moodier and darker and gloomier. And 163 00:10:47,836 --> 00:10:49,916 Speaker 1: when I'm writing for the band, I'm writing from the 164 00:10:49,996 --> 00:10:54,676 Speaker 1: Italian side of my personality, which is Hale brother. Well 165 00:10:54,796 --> 00:10:59,076 Speaker 1: you know, well met you know, so uh so useful 166 00:10:59,156 --> 00:11:02,756 Speaker 1: to have those two sides, it is. I was very lucky, 167 00:11:03,036 --> 00:11:06,316 Speaker 1: you know. My father was very Irish in personality and 168 00:11:06,396 --> 00:11:10,876 Speaker 1: my mother was totally Italian, and I sort of absorbed 169 00:11:10,996 --> 00:11:15,876 Speaker 1: both of their approaches towards life, and when I became creative, 170 00:11:16,316 --> 00:11:22,116 Speaker 1: I really drew on both of their sort of all 171 00:11:22,156 --> 00:11:26,876 Speaker 1: of our ethnic background. There. You've talked about your dad's depression, yeah, 172 00:11:26,916 --> 00:11:30,116 Speaker 1: and that you've you have some of those seeds in you, 173 00:11:30,956 --> 00:11:34,076 Speaker 1: oh yeah. And what are the things that have helped 174 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:36,476 Speaker 1: you to move through those And when was your first 175 00:11:36,516 --> 00:11:40,956 Speaker 1: experience of recognizing, oh, I have this too. I hit 176 00:11:40,996 --> 00:11:45,356 Speaker 1: a wall when I was thirty two years old. I 177 00:11:45,396 --> 00:11:50,636 Speaker 1: wrote Nebraska, And after Nebraska, I traveled across the country 178 00:11:50,676 --> 00:11:53,476 Speaker 1: with a friend of mine and it was on that 179 00:11:53,556 --> 00:11:59,156 Speaker 1: trip that I realized something was amiss. I was always 180 00:11:59,196 --> 00:12:03,396 Speaker 1: able to count on the miles, the music to a suage, 181 00:12:03,436 --> 00:12:07,516 Speaker 1: whatever my demons were, but on that trip it was 182 00:12:07,556 --> 00:12:09,796 Speaker 1: the first time for some reason where it felt like 183 00:12:10,156 --> 00:12:13,236 Speaker 1: it's just not doing the job. And when I got 184 00:12:13,276 --> 00:12:20,516 Speaker 1: to La I was completely an anxious mess and I 185 00:12:20,596 --> 00:12:24,476 Speaker 1: had no idea what to do with myself next, and 186 00:12:24,836 --> 00:12:27,756 Speaker 1: all I knew was I need help. I've hit the wall. 187 00:12:27,876 --> 00:12:30,076 Speaker 1: I don't know where to go with this. My usual 188 00:12:30,156 --> 00:12:35,356 Speaker 1: remedies that worked in my twenties, music, this, that, touring, 189 00:12:35,556 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 1: traveling are not working for me anymore. I've got to 190 00:12:39,356 --> 00:12:42,556 Speaker 1: find another answer. And I began analysis when I was 191 00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:47,676 Speaker 1: thirty two. I did it for thirty years. Change your life, Yes, absolutely, 192 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:51,316 Speaker 1: it gave me the rest of my life, you know, 193 00:12:51,436 --> 00:12:55,956 Speaker 1: the fulfillment of family, of love and being able to 194 00:12:56,076 --> 00:13:01,756 Speaker 1: be loved, of delving deeper into your own history and 195 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:07,116 Speaker 1: your own essence, and that affecting your creativity. It gave 196 00:13:07,156 --> 00:13:11,796 Speaker 1: me another The way that I would describe it as 197 00:13:11,836 --> 00:13:15,316 Speaker 1: you sort of you're standing in front of a brick 198 00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:18,676 Speaker 1: wall and you think you're seeing all that the world is, 199 00:13:19,156 --> 00:13:23,036 Speaker 1: and then suddenly you start pushing and suddenly a brick 200 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:26,956 Speaker 1: drops out and you look through into this complete other 201 00:13:27,196 --> 00:13:33,516 Speaker 1: experience and existence and you go, fuck, you know WHOA 202 00:13:33,956 --> 00:13:38,316 Speaker 1: I've been living on such a limited level and it 203 00:13:38,356 --> 00:13:43,236 Speaker 1: just expands your expanded my vision. It also helped it 204 00:13:43,356 --> 00:13:47,676 Speaker 1: helped rid me of my depression. That and also pharmacology 205 00:13:47,756 --> 00:13:51,036 Speaker 1: has played a big part in giving me my life back, 206 00:13:51,156 --> 00:13:54,836 Speaker 1: and that's been very important. Also, it affect your writing, 207 00:13:54,876 --> 00:13:59,996 Speaker 1: I imagine. No, I have never noticed that my depression 208 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:03,756 Speaker 1: ever affected my writing, or that any medications I've ever 209 00:14:03,796 --> 00:14:08,676 Speaker 1: taken affected my writing. When I was deeply, deeply, deeply depressed, 210 00:14:08,716 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 1: I could always still work and write. For some reason, 211 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 1: it never affected that part of my creative life or personality. 212 00:14:17,636 --> 00:14:19,876 Speaker 1: I'm almost asking the other way around, like, do you 213 00:14:19,916 --> 00:14:23,876 Speaker 1: look at the songs you wrote pre therapy as written 214 00:14:23,876 --> 00:14:28,076 Speaker 1: by a smaller aspect of who you are, and that 215 00:14:28,236 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 1: through therapy you've expanded your vision. I don't know if 216 00:14:31,956 --> 00:14:35,036 Speaker 1: that's I'm leading. That's a leading question. Yeah it is, 217 00:14:35,156 --> 00:14:37,796 Speaker 1: and I can tell you that no, I don't because 218 00:14:37,796 --> 00:14:41,516 Speaker 1: I look back and I The forty fifth anniversary of 219 00:14:41,876 --> 00:14:44,996 Speaker 1: Born to Run was about a week or two ago, 220 00:14:45,436 --> 00:14:46,876 Speaker 1: and so I was with a buddy of mine and 221 00:14:46,876 --> 00:14:48,796 Speaker 1: I said, Hey, I'm going to do an anniversary cruise. 222 00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:51,716 Speaker 1: I'm play Born to Run start to finish. I was like, okay. 223 00:14:51,836 --> 00:14:54,436 Speaker 1: So Sunday morning, we got in a car, put it on, 224 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:56,876 Speaker 1: and I realized, that's one of the best records I've 225 00:14:56,876 --> 00:15:00,476 Speaker 1: ever made. You know, Yeah, if I listened to Nebraska, 226 00:15:00,516 --> 00:15:02,796 Speaker 1: I go, that's one of the best records I ever made, 227 00:15:03,156 --> 00:15:10,636 Speaker 1: so the dealing with my own personal depression. The material 228 00:15:10,716 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 1: I wrote previous to that really was unscathed and untouched 229 00:15:16,516 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: and did and it did not limit the scope of 230 00:15:19,196 --> 00:15:23,276 Speaker 1: my writing in any way, in any real way, I wrote. 231 00:15:23,516 --> 00:15:25,236 Speaker 1: I look back and say, some of my best records 232 00:15:25,236 --> 00:15:31,676 Speaker 1: were pre pre analysis and post analysis. Has music inspired 233 00:15:31,716 --> 00:15:34,316 Speaker 1: your writing more than anything else? Or has literature played 234 00:15:34,316 --> 00:15:38,916 Speaker 1: a role in lyrics and song structure for you? Everything 235 00:15:39,036 --> 00:15:44,996 Speaker 1: I learned musically I probably learned between nineteen sixty five 236 00:15:45,196 --> 00:15:50,396 Speaker 1: and nineteen sixty eight, between when I was fifteen and eighteen, 237 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:55,076 Speaker 1: I was a student, an astute student of Top forty radio, 238 00:15:55,796 --> 00:16:00,916 Speaker 1: where the masters of songwriting and record making were existed 239 00:16:00,956 --> 00:16:04,436 Speaker 1: at that moment in time. I studied that like it 240 00:16:04,476 --> 00:16:08,956 Speaker 1: was for my master's degree, and I would say that 241 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:13,796 Speaker 1: baby into the early seventies, but shortly thereafter I stopped 242 00:16:14,036 --> 00:16:20,276 Speaker 1: looking towards music for specific information, and I began in 243 00:16:20,316 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 1: the late seventies to get more inspiration from reading a 244 00:16:25,356 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: lot of film, a lot of noir, James M. Kin, 245 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:35,436 Speaker 1: Flannery O'Connor, Jim Thompson, and from watching films john Ford 246 00:16:35,676 --> 00:16:41,996 Speaker 1: and Howard Hawks, and a lot of film noir. So 247 00:16:42,516 --> 00:16:46,116 Speaker 1: I began to get a lot more inspiration from literature 248 00:16:46,116 --> 00:16:49,316 Speaker 1: and film the older that I got. Just talk a 249 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:52,596 Speaker 1: little bit about more about this album. Many things fascinating 250 00:16:52,596 --> 00:16:55,316 Speaker 1: about it, but one was that you include a number 251 00:16:55,396 --> 00:17:00,436 Speaker 1: of songs from way back when. Yeah, First of all, 252 00:17:01,076 --> 00:17:04,076 Speaker 1: what was behind that decision? Start with that, why? Why? 253 00:17:04,156 --> 00:17:05,916 Speaker 1: Why did you? Why did you want to put these? 254 00:17:06,236 --> 00:17:10,156 Speaker 1: Particularly if I was the priest. As most creative things, 255 00:17:11,156 --> 00:17:17,036 Speaker 1: it's a non decision. I don't operate from deciding first. 256 00:17:17,516 --> 00:17:23,236 Speaker 1: I operate from an internal hunger and my decisions come 257 00:17:23,836 --> 00:17:27,356 Speaker 1: from there. So in this case, I happened to record 258 00:17:27,516 --> 00:17:30,196 Speaker 1: a song that's on the record called Janey Needs a Shooter, 259 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:32,236 Speaker 1: and I recorded it. I said, I'm going to record 260 00:17:32,236 --> 00:17:34,396 Speaker 1: this for a record day in the United States. You 261 00:17:34,476 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: put one song out, but I recorded it with the 262 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:39,476 Speaker 1: band the way that we cut darkness on the Edge 263 00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:42,196 Speaker 1: of Town, and it sounded like darkness on the Edge 264 00:17:42,196 --> 00:17:44,916 Speaker 1: of Town, and I said, Wow, that's how the band 265 00:17:45,156 --> 00:17:48,996 Speaker 1: really sounds when we play live. And I haven't caught 266 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:52,076 Speaker 1: that in the studio in a long time. And so 267 00:17:52,116 --> 00:17:55,196 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep this for some future album, and 268 00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:58,836 Speaker 1: so having one song that was forty five years old. 269 00:17:59,356 --> 00:18:04,316 Speaker 1: I then was working on a box set of outtakes, 270 00:18:05,116 --> 00:18:08,916 Speaker 1: the first of which was an entire album of songs 271 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:12,156 Speaker 1: I cut for John Hammond when he asked me to 272 00:18:12,236 --> 00:18:15,036 Speaker 1: make a demo. He produced a demo for me when 273 00:18:15,036 --> 00:18:19,356 Speaker 1: I first went to Columbia. These songs were amongst those songs, 274 00:18:19,636 --> 00:18:21,236 Speaker 1: and I said, well, a couple of these might be 275 00:18:21,276 --> 00:18:24,196 Speaker 1: fun for the band to play. So it just kind 276 00:18:24,196 --> 00:18:27,436 Speaker 1: of fell into place, and when we played them, they 277 00:18:27,476 --> 00:18:30,276 Speaker 1: were a lot of fun to play, and the band 278 00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:33,196 Speaker 1: came up with great arrangements for them, and and that's 279 00:18:33,196 --> 00:18:35,596 Speaker 1: how they ended up on the record. Why didn't these 280 00:18:35,636 --> 00:18:39,556 Speaker 1: songs make it onto earlier records just by chance or no? 281 00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:42,396 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you're you're so fickle as an 282 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:45,796 Speaker 1: artists are so fickle, you know they you know you 283 00:18:45,876 --> 00:18:48,996 Speaker 1: have this music and then you write something new and boom, 284 00:18:49,036 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 1: you forget about that and you're onto the next thing. 285 00:18:51,596 --> 00:18:54,476 Speaker 1: By the time I had a chance to record my 286 00:18:55,156 --> 00:19:00,156 Speaker 1: first album, i'd already made an album that but I 287 00:19:00,916 --> 00:19:03,476 Speaker 1: put that one aside because I had new music and 288 00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:05,756 Speaker 1: I wanted to put what was what I had newest 289 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:10,356 Speaker 1: out and so there was an album was pre Greetings 290 00:19:10,356 --> 00:19:13,636 Speaker 1: from Asbury Park that was all of this acoustic music 291 00:19:13,676 --> 00:19:16,876 Speaker 1: with this type of lyric writing, and more than an album, 292 00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:19,076 Speaker 1: almost two albums and an album and a half that 293 00:19:19,236 --> 00:19:23,276 Speaker 1: never got released. How does it feel, too, for the 294 00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:27,076 Speaker 1: first time release song that you wrote years ago? Yeah, 295 00:19:27,396 --> 00:19:29,396 Speaker 1: the song, the two songs if I were the priest 296 00:19:29,436 --> 00:19:33,876 Speaker 1: and song for obums fifty years old, and it felt 297 00:19:33,876 --> 00:19:36,636 Speaker 1: like I wrote them yesterday, except except I wouldn't write 298 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:39,916 Speaker 1: in that style now. You know that very verbose, heavy 299 00:19:39,956 --> 00:19:42,916 Speaker 1: amount of images. I just don't write that way anymore. 300 00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:48,036 Speaker 1: I write more colloquially, and so it was kind of 301 00:19:48,076 --> 00:19:51,596 Speaker 1: fun to wrap my head around, you know, singing all 302 00:19:51,596 --> 00:19:54,236 Speaker 1: those words again. I realized, gee, this was really a 303 00:19:54,276 --> 00:19:57,996 Speaker 1: great part of my writing, my writing life, and I 304 00:19:58,076 --> 00:20:00,916 Speaker 1: kind of left it too soon because of the new 305 00:20:00,996 --> 00:20:04,516 Speaker 1: Dylan comparisons. I got sensitive about it, and I put 306 00:20:04,556 --> 00:20:07,476 Speaker 1: it away a little too soon, because really I kind 307 00:20:07,476 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 1: of had my own style of writing in that style, 308 00:20:11,676 --> 00:20:15,476 Speaker 1: and looking back, I said, I wouldn't have mind making 309 00:20:15,516 --> 00:20:18,396 Speaker 1: another record or two in that style. But I was 310 00:20:18,476 --> 00:20:22,036 Speaker 1: very sensitive to I was young, sensitive about creating my 311 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:24,916 Speaker 1: own identity, and so I left that style of writing 312 00:20:24,956 --> 00:20:28,956 Speaker 1: behind rather quickly. You hear it on the first three albums, 313 00:20:29,276 --> 00:20:32,276 Speaker 1: and you hear it less each album, you know, and 314 00:20:32,356 --> 00:20:34,996 Speaker 1: by the time I get the darkness, I'm done with it. 315 00:20:35,196 --> 00:20:38,156 Speaker 1: There's still time to make those albums, you know. I 316 00:20:38,236 --> 00:20:40,676 Speaker 1: know I got all the materials sitting there. I may 317 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:43,916 Speaker 1: do that. So you played if I was a priest 318 00:20:43,956 --> 00:20:47,236 Speaker 1: for Hammond. You were auditioning for Hammond. Yes, one of 319 00:20:47,276 --> 00:20:51,076 Speaker 1: the most legendary figures in rock and roll history. Could 320 00:20:51,116 --> 00:20:53,196 Speaker 1: you take us back to that moment? Were you scared? 321 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:56,836 Speaker 1: I was on the elevator going up to what might 322 00:20:56,876 --> 00:21:00,636 Speaker 1: have been the thirtieth floor in Black Rock, which was 323 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:04,996 Speaker 1: with my manager and he John Hammond, to give you 324 00:21:05,316 --> 00:21:08,156 Speaker 1: an idea what the record business was like. We're seeing 325 00:21:08,796 --> 00:21:12,276 Speaker 1: no buddies who he did not know at all off 326 00:21:12,276 --> 00:21:15,756 Speaker 1: the streets of New York City, who simply talked their 327 00:21:15,796 --> 00:21:19,596 Speaker 1: way through. His secretary Michapelle was very good at that 328 00:21:19,756 --> 00:21:23,556 Speaker 1: and he did it. So here we have. We've got 329 00:21:23,596 --> 00:21:26,996 Speaker 1: a thirty minute audition with John Hammond. We go up. 330 00:21:27,476 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 1: On the way up, I'm going, well, it's like this, 331 00:21:30,596 --> 00:21:33,916 Speaker 1: I have nothing. When I come back, I'm not going 332 00:21:33,996 --> 00:21:37,796 Speaker 1: to have any less than I have right now, so 333 00:21:37,956 --> 00:21:41,356 Speaker 1: I'm trying to talk myself into not being nervous. It 334 00:21:41,516 --> 00:21:45,356 Speaker 1: almost worked, but not quite. What else did you play 335 00:21:45,396 --> 00:21:48,876 Speaker 1: for him? Do you remember I played? If I were 336 00:21:48,916 --> 00:21:51,116 Speaker 1: the priest? I played The first song I played for 337 00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:53,316 Speaker 1: him was It's Hard to Be a Saint in the City, 338 00:21:53,556 --> 00:21:56,076 Speaker 1: which ended up on my first record, and I believe 339 00:21:56,116 --> 00:21:58,956 Speaker 1: I played a song for him called Growing Up. I 340 00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:01,956 Speaker 1: only played about three songs and he and after I 341 00:22:01,956 --> 00:22:04,956 Speaker 1: played I played one song, and he said, you gotta 342 00:22:04,996 --> 00:22:07,756 Speaker 1: be on Columbia Records. Wow, oh wow, it was that. 343 00:22:08,756 --> 00:22:11,236 Speaker 1: It was that sudden. He didn't wait to hear the 344 00:22:11,276 --> 00:22:13,156 Speaker 1: second one. I played the first, So you gotta be 345 00:22:13,236 --> 00:22:18,956 Speaker 1: on Columbia Records. I said, okay. We always invite the 346 00:22:18,996 --> 00:22:23,036 Speaker 1: people we interview on broken record to play little bits 347 00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:26,076 Speaker 1: of songs that they want to I would love I'd 348 00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:27,916 Speaker 1: love to hear a piece of whatever you want. But 349 00:22:27,956 --> 00:22:30,276 Speaker 1: I was going to suggest, if I was a priest, 350 00:22:30,276 --> 00:22:33,396 Speaker 1: can we recreate the John Hammond audition here? Oh man, 351 00:22:33,636 --> 00:22:35,676 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't I don't know if I 352 00:22:35,836 --> 00:22:41,076 Speaker 1: even know those words. I know, because there's a yeah wait. 353 00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:44,636 Speaker 1: John Hammond apparently said the minute he heard that song, 354 00:22:44,676 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 1: he knew you were a Catholic. Oh yeah, yeah, he 355 00:22:47,436 --> 00:22:50,796 Speaker 1: was really excited about it. That's what he loved. He 356 00:22:50,916 --> 00:22:55,156 Speaker 1: loved the screwed up Catholicism in it. Wait, it was 357 00:22:55,236 --> 00:22:58,636 Speaker 1: he Catholic? I don't know. I don't know. I don't 358 00:22:58,636 --> 00:23:03,436 Speaker 1: think so it's funny that he could spot it right away. Yeah, 359 00:23:03,516 --> 00:23:05,556 Speaker 1: but you're a You're a double cat, like you're a 360 00:23:05,596 --> 00:23:08,556 Speaker 1: special breed with Italian one side, Irish on the other. 361 00:23:08,596 --> 00:23:11,036 Speaker 1: You're like a You're like the most powerful kind of 362 00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:15,476 Speaker 1: Catholic hybrid. Yeah. We're steep steeped, steeped, steeped in it. 363 00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:19,076 Speaker 1: So it's my lot in life. We'll be back with 364 00:23:19,076 --> 00:23:26,836 Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen after a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin, 365 00:23:27,116 --> 00:23:31,276 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell and Bruce Springsteen. How is your spiritual life now? 366 00:23:31,476 --> 00:23:35,236 Speaker 1: What's your spiritual life like? Uh? I don't think about 367 00:23:35,236 --> 00:23:37,596 Speaker 1: it very much. I guess if if I look at it, 368 00:23:37,676 --> 00:23:39,636 Speaker 1: i'd say it comes through in my music, you know. 369 00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:43,796 Speaker 1: And and then and just the general your general behavior 370 00:23:43,916 --> 00:23:47,716 Speaker 1: during the day. Uh, and what you see reflected in 371 00:23:47,756 --> 00:23:50,636 Speaker 1: your children as to how well you've done and how 372 00:23:50,676 --> 00:23:54,156 Speaker 1: well you've lived over the years. You know. I got 373 00:23:54,196 --> 00:23:58,196 Speaker 1: some solid citizens that we've raised and makes Patty and 374 00:23:58,276 --> 00:24:02,556 Speaker 1: I proud, And they got good inner their inner core 375 00:24:02,876 --> 00:24:08,516 Speaker 1: is strong and and and righteous, and uh so we go, well, 376 00:24:08,556 --> 00:24:10,756 Speaker 1: we must have something right, you know, we must be. 377 00:24:10,876 --> 00:24:14,956 Speaker 1: We didn't. We had no dogma or religion, but we 378 00:24:15,076 --> 00:24:17,436 Speaker 1: just had a way of living that I hope passed 379 00:24:17,476 --> 00:24:20,716 Speaker 1: on a little bit of righteousness for them. And so 380 00:24:21,276 --> 00:24:24,596 Speaker 1: uh if I if I observe it in any way, 381 00:24:24,636 --> 00:24:27,836 Speaker 1: it's purely through listening and looking back at my songs 382 00:24:27,876 --> 00:24:32,796 Speaker 1: and seeing where they were influenced by my Catholic faith 383 00:24:32,876 --> 00:24:37,516 Speaker 1: and and or by a spirituality in general. I basically 384 00:24:37,556 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: consider myself a spiritual songwriter in that primarily I want 385 00:24:42,276 --> 00:24:44,796 Speaker 1: you to dance. I want to entertain you. I want 386 00:24:44,836 --> 00:24:47,276 Speaker 1: you to listen to my music and wash your clothes 387 00:24:47,636 --> 00:24:51,236 Speaker 1: and and and vacuum your floor. And I'm also trying 388 00:24:51,276 --> 00:24:56,076 Speaker 1: to address your soul. So beautiful and this album, I mean, 389 00:24:56,116 --> 00:25:01,036 Speaker 1: it's a powerful steam of loss in this album. Yeah 390 00:25:01,756 --> 00:25:03,556 Speaker 1: you talk, I mean you you have lost a lot 391 00:25:03,556 --> 00:25:06,076 Speaker 1: of people close to you over the last few years. Well, 392 00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:13,356 Speaker 1: you know, death is funny because when you're Italian and Irish, 393 00:25:12,836 --> 00:25:15,476 Speaker 1: you get very used to death. When you're very young 394 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:20,036 Speaker 1: because of the wakes, you know, I was too many 395 00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:23,596 Speaker 1: wakes when I was six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old, 396 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:26,116 Speaker 1: where the body is just in the room for days 397 00:25:26,156 --> 00:25:28,716 Speaker 1: at a time and people are drinking and laughing and 398 00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:34,436 Speaker 1: visiting and everyone's excited to be together. And I went 399 00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:36,956 Speaker 1: through a lot of that as a child. And then 400 00:25:37,036 --> 00:25:39,956 Speaker 1: you leave home, you reach your twenties, and for a 401 00:25:40,036 --> 00:25:43,596 Speaker 1: long time, unless there's something unusually tragic, death is not 402 00:25:43,636 --> 00:25:47,196 Speaker 1: a big part of your life twenties, thirties, even forties. 403 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: But once you get into your fifties, sixties and seventies, 404 00:25:50,396 --> 00:25:53,876 Speaker 1: it rears its head again and people begin to die 405 00:25:53,916 --> 00:25:58,796 Speaker 1: from natural causes and from illnesses, and it becomes once 406 00:25:58,836 --> 00:26:01,636 Speaker 1: again at a part of your life. And so it's 407 00:26:01,676 --> 00:26:05,316 Speaker 1: become a natural part of my writing life. Also, is 408 00:26:05,316 --> 00:26:07,516 Speaker 1: there a song? Do you have a favorite on this album? 409 00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:09,436 Speaker 1: I like the House of a Thousand To Tell Ours 410 00:26:10,156 --> 00:26:12,796 Speaker 1: is one of my favorites. How do you choose a 411 00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:14,516 Speaker 1: favorite song? Like? What is it that? What are the 412 00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:17,916 Speaker 1: criteria that in your own mind makes something a song special? 413 00:26:18,636 --> 00:26:21,396 Speaker 1: I knew when I was writing it. I knew that, uh, 414 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:25,276 Speaker 1: there was just something to it that spoke to me, 415 00:26:25,396 --> 00:26:28,996 Speaker 1: you know, Uh, and while I was writing, I said, oh, 416 00:26:29,036 --> 00:26:38,156 Speaker 1: that's a great title. Yeah, I just said, House of 417 00:26:38,156 --> 00:26:40,516 Speaker 1: a Thousand Guitars is a great title. If I can 418 00:26:40,596 --> 00:26:44,356 Speaker 1: write a song and make that title work, I'm good, 419 00:26:44,876 --> 00:26:48,276 Speaker 1: you know. So so I got very excited about it 420 00:26:48,316 --> 00:26:52,076 Speaker 1: and finished the song. You know, it addresses the world 421 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:56,116 Speaker 1: that I've attempted to create with my fans and audience 422 00:26:56,236 --> 00:27:01,836 Speaker 1: and amongst my band and and uh and and and 423 00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:05,316 Speaker 1: just the world at large, you know. And so it 424 00:27:05,396 --> 00:27:08,356 Speaker 1: was it's just my it's it's just one of my 425 00:27:08,356 --> 00:27:13,636 Speaker 1: favorite songs. Record as your relationship to any of the 426 00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:17,076 Speaker 1: songs changed over time, like you said, you did ah 427 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:21,316 Speaker 1: listen to Born to Run recently for the forty fifth anniversary, 428 00:27:21,436 --> 00:27:23,436 Speaker 1: and when you listen back, I know you liked it. 429 00:27:23,716 --> 00:27:27,356 Speaker 1: Did it did anything strike you as surprising or did 430 00:27:27,356 --> 00:27:29,796 Speaker 1: any of the meanings change? What was the experience like? 431 00:27:30,356 --> 00:27:32,996 Speaker 1: The experience was like, damn, I was good when I 432 00:27:33,036 --> 00:27:36,916 Speaker 1: was twenty four years old, you know, it was like 433 00:27:37,396 --> 00:27:40,116 Speaker 1: and sort of being surprised. One thing I was surprised 434 00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:43,356 Speaker 1: at is how well it was recorded. It really, when 435 00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:46,836 Speaker 1: I played it back, it sounded quite modern. And then 436 00:27:46,916 --> 00:27:51,236 Speaker 1: I was a little shocked at the depth and detail 437 00:27:51,356 --> 00:27:53,796 Speaker 1: of the music that I was writing at that age, 438 00:27:54,116 --> 00:27:56,676 Speaker 1: because I didn't really play that well. I mean I 439 00:27:56,716 --> 00:28:01,076 Speaker 1: had a little Aolian Spinnett piano that was half out 440 00:28:01,116 --> 00:28:04,676 Speaker 1: of tune, and I wrote all of those introductions to 441 00:28:04,876 --> 00:28:08,876 Speaker 1: jungle Land to Backstreets, Meeting across the River. Born to 442 00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:12,996 Speaker 1: was written largely on piano, which is why Roy Bitten 443 00:28:13,076 --> 00:28:16,076 Speaker 1: plays such a stellar role on the record, because I 444 00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:20,196 Speaker 1: wrote most of the songs on the piano, and so 445 00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:22,396 Speaker 1: I think I went back and it was it was 446 00:28:22,436 --> 00:28:25,836 Speaker 1: just fun to realize, Wow, I was really, I was really. 447 00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:31,316 Speaker 1: My musical tastes and abilities were quite sophisticated for when 448 00:28:31,316 --> 00:28:33,756 Speaker 1: I was so young, because I probably wrote most of 449 00:28:34,516 --> 00:28:36,476 Speaker 1: Born to Run when I was just twenty four, and 450 00:28:36,556 --> 00:28:38,916 Speaker 1: we recorded it and released it when I was twenty five. 451 00:28:39,356 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 1: And you play those songs, you play many of those 452 00:28:41,676 --> 00:28:44,756 Speaker 1: songs live over the years, but you probably don't have 453 00:28:44,876 --> 00:28:47,356 Speaker 1: much opportunity or reason to go back and listen to 454 00:28:47,396 --> 00:28:50,996 Speaker 1: the album. No, I probably I didn't listen to the record. 455 00:28:51,196 --> 00:28:54,796 Speaker 1: I think I listened to it on its fortieth anniversary, 456 00:28:54,916 --> 00:28:58,436 Speaker 1: but before that probably not in twenty years was there 457 00:28:58,476 --> 00:29:00,796 Speaker 1: any moment in listening to it where you were taken 458 00:29:00,796 --> 00:29:03,196 Speaker 1: it back, where you heard something that you don't remember 459 00:29:03,436 --> 00:29:07,036 Speaker 1: it was there, or something it took you by surprise. No, 460 00:29:07,196 --> 00:29:09,796 Speaker 1: I think it was just when I listened to the thing, 461 00:29:10,036 --> 00:29:13,356 Speaker 1: to listen to it and its entirety, how complete and 462 00:29:13,516 --> 00:29:18,996 Speaker 1: full it was, and how well conceived it was, given 463 00:29:19,036 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 1: how young I was. You know, if I hear one 464 00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:24,556 Speaker 1: of the cuts, I go, yeah, it's pretty good. But 465 00:29:24,596 --> 00:29:26,676 Speaker 1: if I hear the album and its entirety, I go, 466 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:29,596 Speaker 1: it's a little better than that. Do you do you 467 00:29:29,596 --> 00:29:34,436 Speaker 1: ever realize anything about yourself looking back on the songs? Yeah, 468 00:29:34,476 --> 00:29:38,276 Speaker 1: your songs are generally out in front of your personal development. 469 00:29:38,596 --> 00:29:42,836 Speaker 1: They're like a divining rod. You know. What you write 470 00:29:42,836 --> 00:29:46,876 Speaker 1: about is something you sort of you're the self realization 471 00:29:47,116 --> 00:29:50,396 Speaker 1: can come a year or six months or two years. 472 00:29:50,516 --> 00:29:53,356 Speaker 1: Oh fuck, look I knew this back two years ago, 473 00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:56,836 Speaker 1: but it was in this song, and I didn't really 474 00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:59,556 Speaker 1: realize that about myself, you know, for that period of time. 475 00:29:59,636 --> 00:30:04,076 Speaker 1: So your inner life, you're subconscious, tends to be out 476 00:30:04,116 --> 00:30:07,276 Speaker 1: in front of your self awareness, which is pretty much 477 00:30:07,276 --> 00:30:10,796 Speaker 1: the same with everybody. In my case, I record it, 478 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:14,836 Speaker 1: I actually record that subconscious and then have a chance 479 00:30:14,876 --> 00:30:18,356 Speaker 1: to go back and and and literally look at it 480 00:30:18,396 --> 00:30:21,196 Speaker 1: and realize that it took me a while to get 481 00:30:21,236 --> 00:30:24,316 Speaker 1: there personally. Would you say most songs start from the 482 00:30:24,356 --> 00:30:28,116 Speaker 1: subconscious and then work their way up or or do 483 00:30:28,236 --> 00:30:32,436 Speaker 1: some songs just start intellectually for you? Uh? Anything that 484 00:30:32,516 --> 00:30:37,396 Speaker 1: starts intellectually usually sucks. Uh. You know, I almost I 485 00:30:37,596 --> 00:30:43,396 Speaker 1: almost always depend on uh some on some inner life 486 00:30:43,436 --> 00:30:46,996 Speaker 1: sending a message to my brain to get active and 487 00:30:47,116 --> 00:30:50,836 Speaker 1: to employ the mechanics that I've learned over and the 488 00:30:50,876 --> 00:30:53,796 Speaker 1: craft I've learned over the years. But it always comes 489 00:30:53,796 --> 00:30:58,116 Speaker 1: out of the heart and soul first. So Uh, that's 490 00:30:58,196 --> 00:31:01,476 Speaker 1: that's that's generally the process of my writing. Have you 491 00:31:01,516 --> 00:31:05,836 Speaker 1: ever kept a dream journal? Um? I never kept a journal, 492 00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:11,556 Speaker 1: But I'm an active and dreamer, and I dream and 493 00:31:11,756 --> 00:31:14,996 Speaker 1: remember what I dream easily four nights a week or so. 494 00:31:15,236 --> 00:31:18,596 Speaker 1: You know. Always been a very active dreamer. And the 495 00:31:18,636 --> 00:31:20,436 Speaker 1: only time I kept a bit of a journal was 496 00:31:20,476 --> 00:31:23,596 Speaker 1: when I was doing some dream work with my therapist. 497 00:31:24,516 --> 00:31:26,276 Speaker 1: Would you say that a song comes up like a 498 00:31:26,396 --> 00:31:31,236 Speaker 1: dream comes up? Is there a relationship? No. All the 499 00:31:31,316 --> 00:31:34,036 Speaker 1: years that I've followed my dreams, I've written one song 500 00:31:34,116 --> 00:31:36,796 Speaker 1: out of a dream that was worth anything, and it's 501 00:31:36,796 --> 00:31:39,436 Speaker 1: just a little sleeper on a record called working on 502 00:31:39,516 --> 00:31:42,836 Speaker 1: a Dream as a matter of fact, called Surprise Surprise. 503 00:31:42,956 --> 00:31:46,596 Speaker 1: It's a nice little song, and I actually came up 504 00:31:46,596 --> 00:31:49,396 Speaker 1: with it. Usually when you're dreaming, if you write something, 505 00:31:49,516 --> 00:31:51,956 Speaker 1: you think it's phenomenal, and then you wake up and 506 00:31:52,036 --> 00:31:54,676 Speaker 1: you actually play it and it's not very good at all. 507 00:31:55,116 --> 00:31:58,236 Speaker 1: You know the dream, and the dream enhances your experience 508 00:31:58,276 --> 00:32:01,676 Speaker 1: of it. There was literally just one song where it 509 00:32:01,756 --> 00:32:05,876 Speaker 1: paid off in the end. How much of who you 510 00:32:05,956 --> 00:32:14,316 Speaker 1: are came from what you've learned versus inborn, that's probably 511 00:32:14,356 --> 00:32:18,716 Speaker 1: a fifty fifty. I'd say you know nurture and nature, 512 00:32:18,796 --> 00:32:21,916 Speaker 1: I would I would say that you come out with 513 00:32:21,956 --> 00:32:28,836 Speaker 1: a certain personality, and that personality infects everything you do, 514 00:32:29,196 --> 00:32:32,596 Speaker 1: your behavior, and what you create for the rest of 515 00:32:32,596 --> 00:32:38,476 Speaker 1: your life. Then you learn your craft, and you process 516 00:32:38,956 --> 00:32:43,076 Speaker 1: who you are through your craft and through the mechanics 517 00:32:43,076 --> 00:32:46,916 Speaker 1: of what you've learned. But I think the essence of 518 00:32:46,956 --> 00:32:50,636 Speaker 1: who you are comes is with you at birth. I 519 00:32:50,676 --> 00:32:55,076 Speaker 1: think it can be distorted. You can irreparably harm that 520 00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:59,476 Speaker 1: person and you can do great destruction to it, and 521 00:32:59,676 --> 00:33:03,316 Speaker 1: in which case your life will take different paths. But 522 00:33:03,396 --> 00:33:07,436 Speaker 1: if it's even remotely nurtured. I believe that there's such 523 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:09,476 Speaker 1: a it's such a strong force that it's going to 524 00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:13,236 Speaker 1: push through and you're going to find some expression for 525 00:33:13,356 --> 00:33:16,756 Speaker 1: it in some form as as as life goes as 526 00:33:16,796 --> 00:33:19,676 Speaker 1: your life goes by, you know. But I kind of 527 00:33:19,716 --> 00:33:23,156 Speaker 1: go half and half with that because I got into, 528 00:33:23,156 --> 00:33:26,156 Speaker 1: say a lot of noir writing and film noir, and 529 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:29,756 Speaker 1: there you get Nebraska and goes to Tom Jod and 530 00:33:30,316 --> 00:33:32,556 Speaker 1: Devils and Dust where I write a lot of noir 531 00:33:33,156 --> 00:33:36,756 Speaker 1: stories in my in my narrative writing and the kind 532 00:33:36,756 --> 00:33:41,396 Speaker 1: of narrative writing that I do, So uh, that comes 533 00:33:41,476 --> 00:33:45,476 Speaker 1: from just what I was attracted to. But but also 534 00:33:45,556 --> 00:33:48,036 Speaker 1: then I'd have to say, but that really came out 535 00:33:48,036 --> 00:33:51,356 Speaker 1: of the Irish part of my personality. That that that 536 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:54,396 Speaker 1: I was was given from my father, So you can 537 00:33:54,436 --> 00:33:58,396 Speaker 1: trace it immediately back to your your birth. Also, what 538 00:33:58,436 --> 00:34:00,316 Speaker 1: was the music playing around your house when you were 539 00:34:00,316 --> 00:34:04,796 Speaker 1: growing up? No music, real music, No no music, no books, 540 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:09,076 Speaker 1: no films. It was strictly television and Top forty radio. 541 00:34:09,876 --> 00:34:12,756 Speaker 1: When did you first start playing piano? I was really young. 542 00:34:12,836 --> 00:34:16,476 Speaker 1: My my aunt had a piano in her fourier and 543 00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:20,116 Speaker 1: we would visit my Italian grandmother who lived to be 544 00:34:20,156 --> 00:34:23,116 Speaker 1: a hundred years old, every Sunday. And so when my 545 00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:26,876 Speaker 1: mother was upstairs with her mother, because they only spoke Italian, 546 00:34:27,956 --> 00:34:31,556 Speaker 1: I was downstairs in the fourier tinkling around on my 547 00:34:31,596 --> 00:34:35,396 Speaker 1: aunt's piano and I started to make some noise out 548 00:34:35,396 --> 00:34:36,556 Speaker 1: of it, and so she said, here, I'm going to 549 00:34:36,596 --> 00:34:38,596 Speaker 1: give you a key to the house, and when you 550 00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:41,396 Speaker 1: leave school, if you want, you can come into the 551 00:34:41,436 --> 00:34:43,996 Speaker 1: house and play the piano. And so I started to 552 00:34:43,996 --> 00:34:46,596 Speaker 1: come home from school and I go to my aunt's house. 553 00:34:46,796 --> 00:34:49,796 Speaker 1: Nobody was there, and I would just start practicing the piano. 554 00:34:50,196 --> 00:34:54,876 Speaker 1: I was in my teens, and I became a relatively 555 00:34:55,076 --> 00:34:58,556 Speaker 1: proficient accompanyist. You know, nothing special, but I can accompany 556 00:34:58,636 --> 00:35:02,596 Speaker 1: myself relatively well. You said you wrote the songs were 557 00:35:02,596 --> 00:35:05,996 Speaker 1: born to run on the piano. Is that typical for 558 00:35:06,036 --> 00:35:08,876 Speaker 1: you or is that unusual to write a whole album 559 00:35:08,916 --> 00:35:11,836 Speaker 1: on piano. I haven't done it in a long time. 560 00:35:12,196 --> 00:35:15,196 Speaker 1: This record, A Letter to You was primarily on guitar. 561 00:35:15,756 --> 00:35:17,676 Speaker 1: Back in that time, I wrote Racing in the Street. 562 00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:19,756 Speaker 1: A song called Racing in the Street was on piano. 563 00:35:20,516 --> 00:35:22,796 Speaker 1: I probably that was That was a bit of a 564 00:35:22,876 --> 00:35:24,916 Speaker 1: unique record in that I wrote a lot of but 565 00:35:24,956 --> 00:35:27,956 Speaker 1: if you go back and hear all the musical introductions 566 00:35:27,956 --> 00:35:31,276 Speaker 1: and things, you'll see how it was piano based. How 567 00:35:31,276 --> 00:35:35,916 Speaker 1: many songs have you written that you haven't released. Oh, 568 00:35:35,996 --> 00:35:38,956 Speaker 1: at least a hundred. Wow, you know, and we already 569 00:35:38,956 --> 00:35:41,916 Speaker 1: put out a big six to seventy box set of 570 00:35:42,996 --> 00:35:45,396 Speaker 1: stuff from the vault, you know, ten years ago. But 571 00:35:45,436 --> 00:35:48,276 Speaker 1: I still have tons of stuff left. Are you writing 572 00:35:48,276 --> 00:35:54,196 Speaker 1: all the time? No? I write very rarely, and I 573 00:35:54,236 --> 00:35:56,876 Speaker 1: didn't write a rock song in seven years before I 574 00:35:56,916 --> 00:36:00,716 Speaker 1: wrote this batch in ten days. So I write when 575 00:36:00,716 --> 00:36:03,596 Speaker 1: the writing is there and when I'm sort of inspired, 576 00:36:03,916 --> 00:36:06,836 Speaker 1: and I don't worry about not writing. You never had 577 00:36:06,876 --> 00:36:10,076 Speaker 1: that kind of crisis moment, panic moment you think the 578 00:36:10,156 --> 00:36:12,876 Speaker 1: well is dry. Of course you have that all the time. 579 00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:17,036 Speaker 1: But you said you never worry about not writing. You 580 00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:20,476 Speaker 1: manage your anxiety. Well. Is that it? Yeah, I've I 581 00:36:20,596 --> 00:36:23,036 Speaker 1: have that all the time, and I'm used to that feeling, 582 00:36:23,876 --> 00:36:27,796 Speaker 1: you know, so so in a sense when I feel 583 00:36:27,796 --> 00:36:30,156 Speaker 1: like that, and you always feel like that, after you've 584 00:36:30,196 --> 00:36:32,036 Speaker 1: written a good song, you go, oh, I hope that's 585 00:36:32,036 --> 00:36:35,196 Speaker 1: not the last one, you know, But I've kind of 586 00:36:35,196 --> 00:36:38,316 Speaker 1: gotten used to that being part of the natural state 587 00:36:38,396 --> 00:36:43,116 Speaker 1: of writer's consciousness, you know in that Uh, it's such 588 00:36:43,156 --> 00:36:45,516 Speaker 1: a magic trick and you and you and you are 589 00:36:45,716 --> 00:36:48,356 Speaker 1: it's so out of your control, even after all the 590 00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:52,076 Speaker 1: craft that you've learned, that you know, you just don't 591 00:36:52,076 --> 00:36:54,996 Speaker 1: know how you do it. And so, uh, you know, 592 00:36:55,036 --> 00:36:56,916 Speaker 1: I can sit here and say, gee, I'd like to 593 00:36:56,956 --> 00:37:02,916 Speaker 1: write another album, you know, but uh, I know it'll 594 00:37:02,956 --> 00:37:05,356 Speaker 1: come along at some point. I don't know how or when, 595 00:37:05,836 --> 00:37:08,876 Speaker 1: So I'm both. I guess the best way to explain 596 00:37:08,876 --> 00:37:13,356 Speaker 1: it was, I'm comfortable with the anxiety. Does it usually 597 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:16,796 Speaker 1: come with one song? Is that? Is that how it starts? 598 00:37:16,836 --> 00:37:19,676 Speaker 1: If you haven't written for a while, will a song come? 599 00:37:20,236 --> 00:37:22,876 Speaker 1: It'll come with a song, and if it's a good song, 600 00:37:23,156 --> 00:37:26,196 Speaker 1: and if it's if it's working around a theme you 601 00:37:26,276 --> 00:37:29,036 Speaker 1: haven't worked before. Like what I did on this record, 602 00:37:29,076 --> 00:37:32,676 Speaker 1: I took as my subject music itself and rock and 603 00:37:32,796 --> 00:37:36,876 Speaker 1: roll itself as an idea, and uh, the ideas of 604 00:37:36,996 --> 00:37:39,836 Speaker 1: bands themselves as an idea. And I've never written about 605 00:37:39,876 --> 00:37:43,516 Speaker 1: that subject before. So when I locked onto that first thing, 606 00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:48,116 Speaker 1: I realized there was a small but deep well of 607 00:37:48,236 --> 00:37:50,476 Speaker 1: other songs that I that I had and things I 608 00:37:50,516 --> 00:37:53,756 Speaker 1: had to say about that idea and about the passing 609 00:37:53,796 --> 00:37:56,876 Speaker 1: of time and losing band members and losing old friends, 610 00:37:57,276 --> 00:37:59,516 Speaker 1: and what it's like at this age to be doing 611 00:37:59,956 --> 00:38:04,276 Speaker 1: in my line of work. So uh yeah, if you're lucky, 612 00:38:04,356 --> 00:38:08,076 Speaker 1: you know you'll you'll lock onto something and more than 613 00:38:08,956 --> 00:38:12,076 Speaker 1: you will tap a little vein and more than one 614 00:38:12,116 --> 00:38:15,836 Speaker 1: song will come out. Did the subject matter come before 615 00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:18,716 Speaker 1: the first song or did the song come and give 616 00:38:18,756 --> 00:38:22,596 Speaker 1: you the subject matter? The circumstances came before the song. 617 00:38:22,636 --> 00:38:24,676 Speaker 1: I had a very close friend who passed away who 618 00:38:24,756 --> 00:38:28,796 Speaker 1: was the last besides me, was the last member of 619 00:38:28,836 --> 00:38:30,956 Speaker 1: my first band, so that left me as the only 620 00:38:30,996 --> 00:38:35,476 Speaker 1: surviving member. And I thought about that a lot. I 621 00:38:36,036 --> 00:38:38,276 Speaker 1: didn't think about it in the sense okay, now I'm 622 00:38:38,276 --> 00:38:40,956 Speaker 1: going to write some music about this. But I thought 623 00:38:40,996 --> 00:38:43,636 Speaker 1: about it a lot, and then a song came out. 624 00:38:44,196 --> 00:38:48,716 Speaker 1: You know, little strange things happened. I had a kid 625 00:38:48,716 --> 00:38:52,036 Speaker 1: give me a guitar outside of the Broadway Theater and 626 00:38:52,316 --> 00:38:54,756 Speaker 1: an Italian kid was standing there one night and he 627 00:38:55,236 --> 00:38:56,716 Speaker 1: had a guitar in his stand and I thought he 628 00:38:56,756 --> 00:38:59,836 Speaker 1: wanted me to sign it. So they said no, no, no, 629 00:38:59,836 --> 00:39:01,796 Speaker 1: no, no no, no blues blues, this is for you. We 630 00:39:01,876 --> 00:39:05,556 Speaker 1: had a made for you, and I took it and 631 00:39:05,876 --> 00:39:07,276 Speaker 1: on the way home I looked at it and it 632 00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:12,276 Speaker 1: was made from beautiful wood. It played gorgeously and sounded wonderful, 633 00:39:12,356 --> 00:39:15,996 Speaker 1: and I left it in my living room. And that 634 00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:19,676 Speaker 1: was the guitar that most of the songs came out of. So, uh, 635 00:39:20,716 --> 00:39:24,916 Speaker 1: you know, it was another bit of lucky happenstance, you know. 636 00:39:25,676 --> 00:39:29,116 Speaker 1: Would you say most of the albums had a triggering moment, 637 00:39:29,476 --> 00:39:35,796 Speaker 1: like either some life experience that starts the first song 638 00:39:35,916 --> 00:39:39,316 Speaker 1: that leads to the journey of the album. Yeah, I 639 00:39:39,356 --> 00:39:42,836 Speaker 1: would say that perhaps, you know, But also it's sort 640 00:39:42,836 --> 00:39:46,076 Speaker 1: of like there's car. You start your car and it runs, 641 00:39:46,796 --> 00:39:49,596 Speaker 1: Oh great, an album comes out. You start your car, 642 00:39:49,956 --> 00:39:53,436 Speaker 1: it runs for half an hour, breaks down, doesn't run 643 00:39:53,516 --> 00:40:00,076 Speaker 1: for two weeks, started again, written nothing again. Nothing. Records 644 00:40:00,076 --> 00:40:03,756 Speaker 1: have made like that, you know, where I've written a song, 645 00:40:04,156 --> 00:40:08,516 Speaker 1: I've written six songs that I think are really record worthy, 646 00:40:08,716 --> 00:40:11,436 Speaker 1: and then I spent a year trying to write six more. 647 00:40:12,316 --> 00:40:17,796 Speaker 1: You know. So it's simply not predictable, and you have 648 00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:21,356 Speaker 1: to get used to withstanding that anxiety, and you have 649 00:40:21,476 --> 00:40:24,676 Speaker 1: to get comfortable with it. Because born in the USA, 650 00:40:24,956 --> 00:40:27,236 Speaker 1: I think I wrote eight or nine of those songs, 651 00:40:27,236 --> 00:40:31,036 Speaker 1: and then and then spent a year waiting for Dancing 652 00:40:31,036 --> 00:40:36,596 Speaker 1: in the Dark, Bobby Jean and No Surrender, and Wow, 653 00:40:36,876 --> 00:40:38,676 Speaker 1: that was just the way it went. I didn't have 654 00:40:38,676 --> 00:40:41,156 Speaker 1: an album until I had that music, even if I 655 00:40:41,196 --> 00:40:43,916 Speaker 1: had nine good songs sitting there. We'll be back with 656 00:40:43,956 --> 00:40:51,436 Speaker 1: more from Bruce Springsteen. After a quick break, We're back 657 00:40:51,436 --> 00:40:54,196 Speaker 1: with the rest of Rick Rubin and Malcolm Gladwell's conversation 658 00:40:54,476 --> 00:40:57,796 Speaker 1: with Bruce Springstein. How many people were in the original 659 00:40:57,836 --> 00:41:00,876 Speaker 1: E Street Band? The original E Street Band was a 660 00:41:01,036 --> 00:41:05,756 Speaker 1: five piece band. There was one keyboard, No, yeah, one keyboard, 661 00:41:05,756 --> 00:41:08,516 Speaker 1: and then I played keyboards. Sometimes there was a keyboard, 662 00:41:08,556 --> 00:41:11,916 Speaker 1: a guitar, a bass player, a drummer, and a saxophonist. 663 00:41:12,116 --> 00:41:16,316 Speaker 1: It was a little club rock and soul band. And 664 00:41:16,556 --> 00:41:19,156 Speaker 1: when did it start expanding? The last time I saw 665 00:41:19,196 --> 00:41:21,396 Speaker 1: you play, I think there were It felt like there 666 00:41:21,396 --> 00:41:23,436 Speaker 1: were more people on stage than I could count. The 667 00:41:23,556 --> 00:41:27,676 Speaker 1: last time. We might have carried horns, horns and singers 668 00:41:27,716 --> 00:41:32,436 Speaker 1: on that tour. Generally, the band, the stable membership of 669 00:41:32,476 --> 00:41:37,076 Speaker 1: the band is myself, Steve van Zette on the guitar, 670 00:41:37,236 --> 00:41:40,476 Speaker 1: Nils Lofgren on the guitar, Gary Tallon on the bass, 671 00:41:40,476 --> 00:41:43,756 Speaker 1: Max Weinberg on the drums, Charlie Jordano on the organ, 672 00:41:44,036 --> 00:41:47,876 Speaker 1: Roy Bitten on the piano, and Jake Clemens on the saxophone. 673 00:41:47,956 --> 00:41:51,116 Speaker 1: I think that's nine people, and that's the hardcore of 674 00:41:51,156 --> 00:41:53,716 Speaker 1: the E Street Band. Now do you recall what was 675 00:41:53,796 --> 00:41:56,116 Speaker 1: going on the first time you decided not to make 676 00:41:56,156 --> 00:41:59,036 Speaker 1: an album with the East Street Band. Let me think 677 00:41:59,116 --> 00:42:03,436 Speaker 1: that would have been Nebraska, I guess. And I was 678 00:42:03,516 --> 00:42:06,716 Speaker 1: planning to make Nebraska with the East Street Band, but 679 00:42:06,956 --> 00:42:09,436 Speaker 1: what I ended up with came about us being such 680 00:42:09,476 --> 00:42:12,236 Speaker 1: an accident. I ended up with a cassette that I 681 00:42:12,276 --> 00:42:14,676 Speaker 1: had in my back pocket that I carried around for 682 00:42:14,716 --> 00:42:18,596 Speaker 1: several months while trying to rerecord that music with the 683 00:42:18,676 --> 00:42:22,596 Speaker 1: E Street Band in the studio, and everything we record 684 00:42:22,676 --> 00:42:26,556 Speaker 1: it sounded too slick, it sounded too bright, you know, 685 00:42:26,636 --> 00:42:29,716 Speaker 1: and and I lost all the mystery that came out 686 00:42:29,716 --> 00:42:32,516 Speaker 1: of the happy accidents that occurred in my little bedroom. 687 00:42:32,796 --> 00:42:36,276 Speaker 1: So eventually, after trying for quite a while, I just 688 00:42:36,316 --> 00:42:38,676 Speaker 1: pulled the tape out and said, this is it. This 689 00:42:38,716 --> 00:42:40,236 Speaker 1: is the record. It's either going to come out on 690 00:42:40,276 --> 00:42:45,156 Speaker 1: cassette or on vinyl. And that's and and that's the 691 00:42:45,196 --> 00:42:49,076 Speaker 1: way it was. And then after that, solo records came up, 692 00:42:49,156 --> 00:42:52,316 Speaker 1: just to get some relief from working with the band. Initially, 693 00:42:52,356 --> 00:42:54,516 Speaker 1: the next solo record I made was Tunnel of Love, 694 00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:57,116 Speaker 1: which I made in my garage with me and another guy, 695 00:42:57,156 --> 00:42:59,596 Speaker 1: and I played all the instruments, but it was just 696 00:42:59,636 --> 00:43:02,036 Speaker 1: the relief to sort of get away from the pressure 697 00:43:02,036 --> 00:43:05,436 Speaker 1: of having to record with the band and having to 698 00:43:05,556 --> 00:43:10,156 Speaker 1: just use this these particular musicians, this set of instrumentation. 699 00:43:10,756 --> 00:43:12,956 Speaker 1: I needed to have more freedom than that, and so 700 00:43:13,116 --> 00:43:16,476 Speaker 1: it just came around very naturally. Is Nebraska the only 701 00:43:16,516 --> 00:43:19,436 Speaker 1: album that you ever made that you didn't know you 702 00:43:19,436 --> 00:43:23,916 Speaker 1: were making the album while you were making it? Uh? Yeah, yeah, 703 00:43:23,996 --> 00:43:26,916 Speaker 1: I've I've made other There's a record called Devils and 704 00:43:26,996 --> 00:43:30,676 Speaker 1: Dust that but no I knew I was recording for 705 00:43:30,756 --> 00:43:33,876 Speaker 1: something then. But Nebraska was really where I was just 706 00:43:34,036 --> 00:43:36,236 Speaker 1: trying to make a demo to see if the songs 707 00:43:36,236 --> 00:43:39,236 Speaker 1: were any good, and I ended up making an album amazing. 708 00:43:39,476 --> 00:43:42,876 Speaker 1: I remember, as a fan of yours, the album that 709 00:43:42,876 --> 00:43:45,556 Speaker 1: took me by surprise was Nebraska because it was the 710 00:43:45,556 --> 00:43:49,476 Speaker 1: first time I had seen the Irish side of you 711 00:43:50,436 --> 00:43:53,196 Speaker 1: and the adoption of this quintessentially America. I mean I 712 00:43:53,236 --> 00:43:57,316 Speaker 1: thought of you as you know, ethnic New Jersey, immigrant 713 00:43:57,756 --> 00:43:59,636 Speaker 1: kind of America, and then all of a sudden you 714 00:43:59,676 --> 00:44:04,716 Speaker 1: were playing Heartland character. Yeah, and that took me by 715 00:44:04,756 --> 00:44:06,636 Speaker 1: I mean, I was blown away by the album, but 716 00:44:06,676 --> 00:44:09,596 Speaker 1: it took me by surprise. I'm curious did it take 717 00:44:09,636 --> 00:44:12,396 Speaker 1: lots of people by surprise? Did you? Was that in retrospect? 718 00:44:12,516 --> 00:44:16,116 Speaker 1: Was Nebraska a hugely important kind of transition album? It 719 00:44:16,156 --> 00:44:19,716 Speaker 1: was for me because I studied a whole I came 720 00:44:19,796 --> 00:44:22,956 Speaker 1: upon a whole type of writing that really began on 721 00:44:22,996 --> 00:44:26,076 Speaker 1: the River album. With the River and with a song 722 00:44:26,116 --> 00:44:29,756 Speaker 1: called Stolen Car, there was a narrative type of writing, 723 00:44:29,756 --> 00:44:33,716 Speaker 1: a storytelling type of writing that that maybe would go 724 00:44:33,756 --> 00:44:37,796 Speaker 1: back to Woody Guthrie or or Talking Blues or but 725 00:44:38,276 --> 00:44:43,636 Speaker 1: basically it was it was inspired by by books and 726 00:44:43,796 --> 00:44:47,076 Speaker 1: cinema that I was interested in at that moment, and 727 00:44:47,316 --> 00:44:50,956 Speaker 1: also of creating a character that was wider than just 728 00:44:51,356 --> 00:44:54,476 Speaker 1: the character that came out of New Jersey, that was 729 00:44:54,516 --> 00:45:00,556 Speaker 1: just a broader American voice I was interested in at 730 00:45:00,596 --> 00:45:03,316 Speaker 1: that time. So, yeah, the record came out, people didn't 731 00:45:03,316 --> 00:45:05,396 Speaker 1: know what to make of it. It got a little 732 00:45:05,436 --> 00:45:08,236 Speaker 1: bit of airplay. It got a lot of nice reviews, 733 00:45:08,716 --> 00:45:12,476 Speaker 1: and I didn't tour on it, and it disappeared rather shortly. 734 00:45:12,756 --> 00:45:15,236 Speaker 1: I'm very surprised to how you say it disappeared, because 735 00:45:15,236 --> 00:45:16,796 Speaker 1: I feel like it's one of the records that has 736 00:45:16,836 --> 00:45:19,996 Speaker 1: had the greatest long term Yeah, I'm just me sort 737 00:45:19,996 --> 00:45:23,356 Speaker 1: of commercially, you know, uh, but but it has. If 738 00:45:23,396 --> 00:45:25,516 Speaker 1: I meet young a lot of young people, that's their 739 00:45:25,596 --> 00:45:29,076 Speaker 1: record for one reason or another. Maybe because it came 740 00:45:29,156 --> 00:45:32,316 Speaker 1: up shortly after the punk revolution, and I've seen it 741 00:45:32,356 --> 00:45:36,196 Speaker 1: described as one of the first punk acoustic albums. You know, 742 00:45:36,356 --> 00:45:39,636 Speaker 1: so's it sort of is in a funny way, and 743 00:45:39,676 --> 00:45:42,756 Speaker 1: that it was completely done at home. Do it yourself 744 00:45:43,116 --> 00:45:46,956 Speaker 1: cost a thousand bucks little four track tape player mixed 745 00:45:46,996 --> 00:45:50,796 Speaker 1: onto a beatbox through a Gibson guitar. Ecoplex that was 746 00:45:51,236 --> 00:45:55,716 Speaker 1: that was running slow, and just this mysterious creation came 747 00:45:55,716 --> 00:45:57,876 Speaker 1: out of it. You know, do you think that the 748 00:45:57,996 --> 00:46:00,396 Speaker 1: kinds of people who are were attracted to that record 749 00:46:00,436 --> 00:46:03,036 Speaker 1: and to the subsequent iversh side, if you want to 750 00:46:03,116 --> 00:46:07,276 Speaker 1: use that paradigm, are different kind of fan for that 751 00:46:07,396 --> 00:46:09,716 Speaker 1: music than you are for your for the other kinds 752 00:46:09,756 --> 00:46:12,876 Speaker 1: of music. Yeah. Yeah, When I play I have a 753 00:46:12,916 --> 00:46:15,996 Speaker 1: lot of different types of audiences, you know, And I 754 00:46:16,036 --> 00:46:18,796 Speaker 1: believe I have an audience that's probably interested in that 755 00:46:18,956 --> 00:46:21,516 Speaker 1: sort of what I do and maybe a little less 756 00:46:21,516 --> 00:46:25,036 Speaker 1: of the electric side of what I do. Though, I 757 00:46:25,076 --> 00:46:28,036 Speaker 1: think I've an audience that pretty much follows me through 758 00:46:28,276 --> 00:46:33,036 Speaker 1: through both iterations of my creative life. But but I'm 759 00:46:33,116 --> 00:46:34,836 Speaker 1: very conscious at night, when we come out in the 760 00:46:34,876 --> 00:46:38,476 Speaker 1: stadium or in an arena of the fact that i'm playing. 761 00:46:38,996 --> 00:46:43,996 Speaker 1: I'm playing to casual listeners, I'm playing to hardcore listeners, 762 00:46:45,276 --> 00:46:48,276 Speaker 1: and so I try to build a show that sort 763 00:46:48,276 --> 00:46:52,996 Speaker 1: of addresses those things, you know, but I play to 764 00:46:53,196 --> 00:46:54,716 Speaker 1: I have to be aware that I'm playing to a 765 00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:58,116 Speaker 1: lot of different audiences at once. Do you remember what 766 00:46:58,156 --> 00:47:01,156 Speaker 1: the first song you wrote for Nebraska was? I believe 767 00:47:01,236 --> 00:47:04,676 Speaker 1: it was Nebraska itself. This is an a side, but 768 00:47:05,116 --> 00:47:08,836 Speaker 1: I love I love Nebraska so completely, and it was 769 00:47:08,956 --> 00:47:11,716 Speaker 1: my moment when I came for the Italian and stayed 770 00:47:11,756 --> 00:47:16,556 Speaker 1: for the for the irishman um and but with Nebraska, 771 00:47:16,956 --> 00:47:22,156 Speaker 1: the Frankie and Johnny song redeems the whole album. Oh 772 00:47:22,196 --> 00:47:24,396 Speaker 1: it's I always it was always the one that stuck 773 00:47:24,436 --> 00:47:26,356 Speaker 1: up a hit because it's the one where the guy 774 00:47:26,396 --> 00:47:29,036 Speaker 1: does the he does the moral he's the he does 775 00:47:29,076 --> 00:47:32,796 Speaker 1: the morally right thing. Man stick like man gives up 776 00:47:32,836 --> 00:47:34,756 Speaker 1: on his family, he ain't no good whatever the whatever 777 00:47:34,796 --> 00:47:37,356 Speaker 1: that line is. The rest is about these people who 778 00:47:37,356 --> 00:47:40,556 Speaker 1: have somehow kind of fallen away or and then and 779 00:47:40,556 --> 00:47:42,236 Speaker 1: then in the middle of it you have the sheriff 780 00:47:42,236 --> 00:47:45,036 Speaker 1: who understands it is his connection to his brought up 781 00:47:45,116 --> 00:47:48,076 Speaker 1: is more important than his badge. And it's just I 782 00:47:48,196 --> 00:47:50,596 Speaker 1: just thought that was suddenly this like this ray of 783 00:47:50,716 --> 00:47:54,756 Speaker 1: sunshine comes through in that and it just put that 784 00:47:54,796 --> 00:47:57,876 Speaker 1: album on a different level for me. Well, the the 785 00:47:57,956 --> 00:48:01,756 Speaker 1: whole record is about a fallen world. You know, we 786 00:48:01,876 --> 00:48:06,236 Speaker 1: all have to live in that song. You're right, there's 787 00:48:06,236 --> 00:48:09,436 Speaker 1: a little bit of redemption in it, and it's one 788 00:48:09,476 --> 00:48:13,356 Speaker 1: of my favorite songs on the record, Highway Patrolman. More 789 00:48:13,356 --> 00:48:16,116 Speaker 1: than a little bit, wait, Bruce, more than a little bit. 790 00:48:16,236 --> 00:48:18,796 Speaker 1: A lot of it it is. There's a whole lot 791 00:48:18,796 --> 00:48:21,156 Speaker 1: of redemption that's Jesus on the Cross in that album. 792 00:48:21,276 --> 00:48:27,636 Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, yeah, I hear you on the subject 793 00:48:27,636 --> 00:48:31,276 Speaker 1: of Catholicism. Since we're s dancing around it, you said 794 00:48:31,316 --> 00:48:34,676 Speaker 1: in a conversation with Martin Chris scrase. Last year you 795 00:48:34,716 --> 00:48:36,796 Speaker 1: were talking about how much of your work is informed 796 00:48:36,796 --> 00:48:40,436 Speaker 1: by having gone to Catholic school, and then we have 797 00:48:40,516 --> 00:48:42,716 Speaker 1: that John Hammond comment about I knew you were a Catholic. 798 00:48:43,116 --> 00:48:45,316 Speaker 1: Can you put your can we can you put your 799 00:48:45,356 --> 00:48:49,396 Speaker 1: finger on what is the what is the Catholic part 800 00:48:49,436 --> 00:48:53,196 Speaker 1: of of your music? Well, you know, I guess if 801 00:48:53,196 --> 00:48:57,196 Speaker 1: I look back, it was great fear of a spiritual 802 00:48:57,316 --> 00:49:02,396 Speaker 1: darkness is impressed upon you when you're very, very young. 803 00:49:02,876 --> 00:49:06,716 Speaker 1: That's one thing. Perhaps the ability to work towards a 804 00:49:06,836 --> 00:49:11,836 Speaker 1: spiritual light is also impressed rest upon you. So these 805 00:49:11,996 --> 00:49:16,876 Speaker 1: those are very high stakes. And if you live your 806 00:49:16,876 --> 00:49:20,636 Speaker 1: life with with with those stakes on the table, it'll 807 00:49:20,676 --> 00:49:25,436 Speaker 1: be an interesting experience, you know, And that may be 808 00:49:25,756 --> 00:49:30,236 Speaker 1: at the center of what my Catholic upbringing does for 809 00:49:30,476 --> 00:49:34,996 Speaker 1: my music and perhaps for me also, you know, that 810 00:49:35,116 --> 00:49:37,556 Speaker 1: might explain some of it. I was gonna I was 811 00:49:37,556 --> 00:49:40,196 Speaker 1: gonna ask Bruce if you if you wanted to play 812 00:49:40,196 --> 00:49:43,396 Speaker 1: another song off this Thist album and give us a 813 00:49:43,396 --> 00:49:46,796 Speaker 1: little bit of the of the backstory. Okay, let me 814 00:49:47,036 --> 00:49:54,276 Speaker 1: let me see what I can find here. This was 815 00:49:54,316 --> 00:50:00,836 Speaker 1: the song that kicked off the writing for the entire 816 00:50:00,916 --> 00:50:03,876 Speaker 1: record because it was most directly about my friend George 817 00:50:03,876 --> 00:50:08,196 Speaker 1: who passed away, and about those particular time in my 818 00:50:08,356 --> 00:50:13,276 Speaker 1: in my playing life. Everything everything came out of that song. 819 00:50:14,116 --> 00:50:16,316 Speaker 1: All the rest of the songs came out of the 820 00:50:16,316 --> 00:50:19,716 Speaker 1: world that I began to create in that song. You 821 00:50:19,836 --> 00:50:24,196 Speaker 1: talked earlier about writing for the band, and you imagine 822 00:50:24,196 --> 00:50:26,156 Speaker 1: the song in your head before you record it with 823 00:50:26,196 --> 00:50:29,356 Speaker 1: the band, is the mission to get it to sound 824 00:50:29,396 --> 00:50:31,556 Speaker 1: like what you hear in your head or you sometimes 825 00:50:31,596 --> 00:50:35,396 Speaker 1: surprised by what the band contributes in the process of 826 00:50:35,516 --> 00:50:38,076 Speaker 1: making the record. Well, I try to get it to 827 00:50:38,116 --> 00:50:40,076 Speaker 1: sound like I hear it in my head, but I 828 00:50:40,116 --> 00:50:42,356 Speaker 1: don't limit it to what I'm hearing in my head. 829 00:50:42,836 --> 00:50:45,476 Speaker 1: Usually you don't get it to sound like you hear 830 00:50:45,516 --> 00:50:48,276 Speaker 1: it in your head. You know. It's sort of a guide, 831 00:50:48,356 --> 00:50:50,676 Speaker 1: you know, But when it works, as it worked on 832 00:50:50,716 --> 00:50:53,356 Speaker 1: this record, all I knew is like, yeah, these are 833 00:50:53,476 --> 00:50:56,356 Speaker 1: rock songs. I want them to sound kind of glorious. 834 00:50:56,796 --> 00:51:01,796 Speaker 1: And so when the band came in and performed them, 835 00:51:02,116 --> 00:51:04,156 Speaker 1: this was a case where I got more out of 836 00:51:05,876 --> 00:51:07,676 Speaker 1: you know, we have I have a good producer, we 837 00:51:07,716 --> 00:51:10,876 Speaker 1: have good recording technique right now, and the sound of 838 00:51:10,876 --> 00:51:14,276 Speaker 1: the record is really quite lovely, and so I got. 839 00:51:14,316 --> 00:51:16,196 Speaker 1: I got a little more out of it than I 840 00:51:16,276 --> 00:51:18,276 Speaker 1: might have been imagining when I came in, and that's 841 00:51:18,276 --> 00:51:21,796 Speaker 1: always a sweet surprise. I think it's it's the best 842 00:51:22,076 --> 00:51:25,196 Speaker 1: band record I've made with my band in a in 843 00:51:25,236 --> 00:51:27,996 Speaker 1: a very long time, you know. So I'm I'm very, 844 00:51:28,796 --> 00:51:31,476 Speaker 1: very excited about it, and I can't wait to get 845 00:51:31,476 --> 00:51:34,156 Speaker 1: out in one of these days and actually play it 846 00:51:34,196 --> 00:51:38,676 Speaker 1: for my fans. Once knock on Wood COVID passes, it 847 00:51:38,676 --> 00:51:41,116 Speaker 1: will be how many years since you and the band 848 00:51:41,156 --> 00:51:45,396 Speaker 1: have been touring. I believe we haven't toured now in 849 00:51:45,636 --> 00:51:50,956 Speaker 1: two going on three, so I think the last time 850 00:51:50,996 --> 00:51:55,396 Speaker 1: we toured was twenty seventeen, perhaps, you know, counting our 851 00:51:55,476 --> 00:51:59,356 Speaker 1: lucky stars. I'm looking towards twenty twenty two. I can't 852 00:51:59,356 --> 00:52:01,716 Speaker 1: imagine there's really going to be anything going on this 853 00:52:01,876 --> 00:52:05,156 Speaker 1: next year, and I'm hoping if I think, if things 854 00:52:05,196 --> 00:52:08,796 Speaker 1: work out ideally, twenty twenty two is would be the 855 00:52:08,836 --> 00:52:11,636 Speaker 1: earth earliest that you could expect people are going to 856 00:52:11,676 --> 00:52:15,196 Speaker 1: feel comfortable going shoulder to shoulder again anywhere. Yeah, and 857 00:52:15,236 --> 00:52:18,516 Speaker 1: you've you've never gotten tired of touring? No, I love 858 00:52:18,556 --> 00:52:22,236 Speaker 1: to travel. I like staying in hotels I like being 859 00:52:22,316 --> 00:52:27,516 Speaker 1: in strange in different towns, and I still like it 860 00:52:27,556 --> 00:52:30,316 Speaker 1: as much as I did when I was young, though 861 00:52:30,356 --> 00:52:32,756 Speaker 1: I'm very happy now to actually have a real home 862 00:52:32,796 --> 00:52:36,476 Speaker 1: to come back to. Yeah, beautiful. You mentioned in the 863 00:52:37,356 --> 00:52:39,036 Speaker 1: I think it was in the Broadway piece you talked 864 00:52:39,076 --> 00:52:44,916 Speaker 1: about blank pages and the feeling of having nothing when 865 00:52:44,916 --> 00:52:47,796 Speaker 1: you were young, the sense of not having anything to do, 866 00:52:47,916 --> 00:52:51,476 Speaker 1: and feeling this freedom going forward even though there was 867 00:52:51,636 --> 00:52:53,476 Speaker 1: there was nothing really to look forward too, but you 868 00:52:53,516 --> 00:52:55,476 Speaker 1: just had a sense of freedom. So sure, do you 869 00:52:55,476 --> 00:53:00,436 Speaker 1: ever want to re embrace with that and stop working 870 00:53:00,596 --> 00:53:06,236 Speaker 1: and create a new blank page and imagine a life 871 00:53:06,356 --> 00:53:10,196 Speaker 1: of just whatever that would be freedom. I would have 872 00:53:10,236 --> 00:53:14,676 Speaker 1: to ruin my entire existence to do that, which I'm 873 00:53:14,716 --> 00:53:18,556 Speaker 1: sort of not exactly willing to do at this late date, 874 00:53:19,076 --> 00:53:24,196 Speaker 1: you know. But but I still have that sense of 875 00:53:24,716 --> 00:53:29,476 Speaker 1: my life makes room for those blank pages within a 876 00:53:29,596 --> 00:53:34,756 Speaker 1: certain set of limitations, and that satisfies me. You know 877 00:53:35,076 --> 00:53:38,436 Speaker 1: that this whole album and experience with the band was 878 00:53:38,476 --> 00:53:41,596 Speaker 1: an entirely blank page that we got to fill from 879 00:53:41,636 --> 00:53:47,036 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, So I'm satisfied with that. It's kind of 880 00:53:47,196 --> 00:53:50,316 Speaker 1: this kind of a personal question. I love the Broadway Show. 881 00:53:50,476 --> 00:53:52,236 Speaker 1: I really love the Broadway show, and I want to 882 00:53:52,236 --> 00:53:54,916 Speaker 1: talk about how that came about, what gave you the idea. 883 00:53:54,956 --> 00:53:56,956 Speaker 1: But the personal part of it is you talk a 884 00:53:56,956 --> 00:54:00,516 Speaker 1: lot about being a con man of sorts or a 885 00:54:00,516 --> 00:54:03,676 Speaker 1: phony in you start. You start the show that way, 886 00:54:03,996 --> 00:54:07,076 Speaker 1: and you talk about how the songs are not necessarily 887 00:54:07,116 --> 00:54:09,996 Speaker 1: representative of your life, but more maybe if your dad, 888 00:54:10,356 --> 00:54:12,916 Speaker 1: or of things that you've seen, the situate, your situation 889 00:54:12,956 --> 00:54:16,436 Speaker 1: growing up. With the stories, the news stories that you 890 00:54:16,596 --> 00:54:21,476 Speaker 1: told in the play, are they all really your experiences 891 00:54:21,636 --> 00:54:27,116 Speaker 1: or are those also embellished? Well, I would say that 892 00:54:28,156 --> 00:54:30,596 Speaker 1: I have a funny job, and that when you write 893 00:54:30,676 --> 00:54:35,036 Speaker 1: and sing something and you do it really well, it's 894 00:54:35,076 --> 00:54:40,516 Speaker 1: so credible that people simply believe it's you. Of the time. 895 00:54:41,396 --> 00:54:46,956 Speaker 1: There is an emotional truth, a spiritual truth that you 896 00:54:47,076 --> 00:54:50,876 Speaker 1: have to draw up from inside of your essence for 897 00:54:51,596 --> 00:54:54,796 Speaker 1: that piece of work to be credible. But how you 898 00:54:54,996 --> 00:55:00,676 Speaker 1: said it, the incidences, the details, the story itself can 899 00:55:00,716 --> 00:55:04,876 Speaker 1: be something a complete work of imagination, you know, So 900 00:55:04,956 --> 00:55:07,196 Speaker 1: you have to be able to draw on your own 901 00:55:07,276 --> 00:55:10,156 Speaker 1: inner truth. But at the same time you can dress 902 00:55:10,196 --> 00:55:13,396 Speaker 1: it up in any monkey suit that you want. And 903 00:55:13,516 --> 00:55:19,316 Speaker 1: I often do you know and So writing is largely 904 00:55:19,436 --> 00:55:24,076 Speaker 1: an act of the imagination, but which is where you 905 00:55:24,116 --> 00:55:28,196 Speaker 1: get your your your geography or your detail of character. 906 00:55:30,196 --> 00:55:33,396 Speaker 1: But for that character in geography to come to life 907 00:55:33,436 --> 00:55:37,156 Speaker 1: into a real, breathing world, you've got to tap into 908 00:55:37,236 --> 00:55:41,916 Speaker 1: your own true inner life. So if you when you're 909 00:55:41,916 --> 00:55:45,876 Speaker 1: doing both of those things, you're writing well, beautiful, beautiful. 910 00:55:45,876 --> 00:55:47,916 Speaker 1: So tell me about how the Broadway Show came about. 911 00:55:48,356 --> 00:55:51,796 Speaker 1: Broadway Show came about by accident. I was invited to 912 00:55:51,916 --> 00:55:55,756 Speaker 1: the White House by Barack Obama to perform in his 913 00:55:55,956 --> 00:55:59,756 Speaker 1: last two weeks that he was at the White House. 914 00:55:59,796 --> 00:56:01,156 Speaker 1: And so I said, I don't want to bring the 915 00:56:01,276 --> 00:56:04,396 Speaker 1: bands too big a hassle. I'll play some acoustic songs. 916 00:56:04,836 --> 00:56:06,316 Speaker 1: And then I said, well, what am I gonna do. 917 00:56:06,716 --> 00:56:09,436 Speaker 1: I'll read from my book and I'll play some acoustics songs. 918 00:56:10,036 --> 00:56:12,956 Speaker 1: And so I came into the studio here and I 919 00:56:12,956 --> 00:56:16,156 Speaker 1: spent about two hours picking out segments of the book 920 00:56:16,236 --> 00:56:19,516 Speaker 1: and then a song to go with it. And then 921 00:56:19,556 --> 00:56:22,636 Speaker 1: I realized I had to slightly rewrite the book so 922 00:56:22,756 --> 00:56:27,116 Speaker 1: it sounded colloquial. Prose writing and speaking are not the 923 00:56:27,196 --> 00:56:31,316 Speaker 1: same thing. So I rewrote the pieces a little bit, 924 00:56:31,356 --> 00:56:33,556 Speaker 1: so it sounded just like I was speaking off the 925 00:56:33,596 --> 00:56:35,996 Speaker 1: top of my head. I went and I performed it 926 00:56:36,036 --> 00:56:38,836 Speaker 1: at the White House, about ninety minutes of the play, 927 00:56:38,956 --> 00:56:41,516 Speaker 1: which I put together in about four hours here in 928 00:56:41,556 --> 00:56:45,196 Speaker 1: the studio, and at the end of the play, Barack 929 00:56:45,236 --> 00:56:47,756 Speaker 1: Obama got on The President got on stage and he says, hey, 930 00:56:47,956 --> 00:56:50,556 Speaker 1: I know you did that just for us, but that 931 00:56:50,596 --> 00:56:54,116 Speaker 1: should be a show, you know. And so on the 932 00:56:54,116 --> 00:56:56,836 Speaker 1: way back from Washington, I was with my manager, John 933 00:56:56,916 --> 00:57:00,156 Speaker 1: Landau and my wife Patty, and we said, yeah, that 934 00:57:00,396 --> 00:57:03,596 Speaker 1: should be a show. So well, and we started talking 935 00:57:03,596 --> 00:57:06,116 Speaker 1: about a venue, and I realized if it was going 936 00:57:06,196 --> 00:57:07,956 Speaker 1: to be a show, I played the two hundred people 937 00:57:07,996 --> 00:57:09,956 Speaker 1: in the East Room, but if it was going to 938 00:57:09,956 --> 00:57:12,436 Speaker 1: be a show, I needed a very small audience that 939 00:57:12,556 --> 00:57:15,356 Speaker 1: was very controllable or I could get an enormous amount 940 00:57:15,396 --> 00:57:18,236 Speaker 1: of cooperation and silence. And it had to be a 941 00:57:18,356 --> 00:57:23,036 Speaker 1: very intimate environment. And those jewel Box theaters are on Broadway. 942 00:57:23,076 --> 00:57:25,196 Speaker 1: So that's how I ended up there. Was it a 943 00:57:25,196 --> 00:57:29,716 Speaker 1: fun experience, best experience of my life, one of the greatest. Wow. Wow, 944 00:57:29,836 --> 00:57:34,236 Speaker 1: was it difficult doing the same material day after day. 945 00:57:35,316 --> 00:57:38,796 Speaker 1: I loved it because I always first of all, it 946 00:57:38,956 --> 00:57:42,796 Speaker 1: was a world that I loved entering. It really got 947 00:57:42,836 --> 00:57:46,116 Speaker 1: me in touch with my past, and it was sort 948 00:57:46,156 --> 00:57:49,156 Speaker 1: of summational as sort of this is a little bit 949 00:57:49,196 --> 00:57:53,276 Speaker 1: of what I've learned up to now. And I enjoyed 950 00:57:53,276 --> 00:57:59,316 Speaker 1: inhabiting those characters every night, and I found something in 951 00:57:59,396 --> 00:58:01,996 Speaker 1: it every night, and right up to the very last night, 952 00:58:02,156 --> 00:58:04,836 Speaker 1: I was having the time of my life. Were the 953 00:58:04,876 --> 00:58:11,356 Speaker 1: audiences consistently reacting in the same spots or might depending 954 00:58:11,396 --> 00:58:16,316 Speaker 1: on the night? Did different things move people differently? Yeah, 955 00:58:16,316 --> 00:58:20,476 Speaker 1: the audiences would vary night to night. You know, some 956 00:58:20,596 --> 00:58:22,396 Speaker 1: nights a little roundy, or some nights you know a 957 00:58:22,436 --> 00:58:27,356 Speaker 1: little more expressive, other nights listening a little deeper. There 958 00:58:27,436 --> 00:58:30,796 Speaker 1: was a level, a general level of consistency that I 959 00:58:30,876 --> 00:58:35,156 Speaker 1: found comforting and good to play too. But there's no 960 00:58:35,276 --> 00:58:37,676 Speaker 1: I've never played the two audiences that are alike, not 961 00:58:37,756 --> 00:58:40,436 Speaker 1: on any night of any night of my work life. 962 00:58:40,636 --> 00:58:43,396 Speaker 1: I've never seen two audiences that are the same or 963 00:58:43,516 --> 00:58:46,756 Speaker 1: where the alchemy is the same two nights in a row. 964 00:58:46,796 --> 00:58:49,676 Speaker 1: It just doesn't. It's impossible to happen. Did you feel 965 00:58:49,676 --> 00:58:52,356 Speaker 1: more of a sense of direct communication with the audience 966 00:58:52,396 --> 00:58:56,596 Speaker 1: than you would in a concert set up? No, not necessarily. 967 00:58:57,196 --> 00:59:02,036 Speaker 1: The mechanics are very, very different, but you still have 968 00:59:02,116 --> 00:59:05,876 Speaker 1: to connect your mind. You have to meet mind to 969 00:59:05,996 --> 00:59:09,876 Speaker 1: mind and heart to heart and soul to soul. Whether 970 00:59:09,916 --> 00:59:13,396 Speaker 1: you're at Giants Stadium or whether you're in a nine 971 00:59:13,436 --> 00:59:18,676 Speaker 1: hundred seat theater on Broadway, the mechanics of connection are 972 00:59:18,756 --> 00:59:22,756 Speaker 1: the same. You know, you've got to draw on your 973 00:59:22,756 --> 00:59:26,116 Speaker 1: emotional life, your spiritual life, your intellectual self, your physical 974 00:59:26,156 --> 00:59:29,996 Speaker 1: self when you play with the band, and you know 975 00:59:30,036 --> 00:59:33,316 Speaker 1: you've just got to meet that audience face to face 976 00:59:34,116 --> 00:59:38,836 Speaker 1: as intensely as you can. So even though the situations 977 00:59:38,836 --> 00:59:42,756 Speaker 1: are very different, the fundamental act is very similar. I'm 978 00:59:42,796 --> 00:59:45,036 Speaker 1: so happy that you made it. I really am. It's like, 979 00:59:45,236 --> 00:59:49,516 Speaker 1: thank you. It feels good. Thank you. What's your favorite 980 00:59:49,556 --> 00:59:52,436 Speaker 1: and least favorite part of your job. I suppose the 981 00:59:52,516 --> 00:59:57,676 Speaker 1: least favorite would be the prying into your private life, 982 00:59:57,916 --> 01:00:00,756 Speaker 1: which I don't experience much anymore because I'm pretty much 983 01:00:00,836 --> 01:00:04,236 Speaker 1: old and people are in and people are a lot 984 01:00:04,356 --> 01:00:07,676 Speaker 1: less interested in you, you know. But when I was younger, 985 01:00:07,716 --> 01:00:13,876 Speaker 1: I really raise the level of my anxiety, and I uh, 986 01:00:14,956 --> 01:00:17,876 Speaker 1: I resented that a little bit, but I learned to 987 01:00:17,916 --> 01:00:20,596 Speaker 1: live with it because that's that this as they say 988 01:00:20,636 --> 01:00:23,596 Speaker 1: in the Godfather, this is the life we've chosen, And 989 01:00:23,796 --> 01:00:27,356 Speaker 1: uh so that would be my least favorite. My most 990 01:00:27,396 --> 01:00:30,396 Speaker 1: favorite is simply getting on stage and playing. That's that's 991 01:00:30,436 --> 01:00:33,396 Speaker 1: the you know, and having that moment with the audience 992 01:00:33,396 --> 01:00:35,956 Speaker 1: and with my band and or with or with the 993 01:00:36,636 --> 01:00:40,316 Speaker 1: on on Broadway, with the situation like that. That's that's 994 01:00:40,356 --> 01:00:43,236 Speaker 1: the thing I love to do best. Beautiful, Well, how 995 01:00:43,276 --> 01:00:46,356 Speaker 1: do we do, guys? I think we did great. I 996 01:00:46,356 --> 01:00:48,796 Speaker 1: can't tell you how how much fun this has been 997 01:00:48,836 --> 01:00:52,036 Speaker 1: and an honor great man. I I'm a fan of 998 01:00:52,036 --> 01:00:54,756 Speaker 1: both you guys, and I had a great time doing it. 999 01:00:58,476 --> 01:01:00,396 Speaker 1: Thanks to the Boss for taking us deep into his 1000 01:01:00,476 --> 01:01:03,596 Speaker 1: writing process and for planes and music. You can hear 1001 01:01:03,636 --> 01:01:05,956 Speaker 1: his new album Letter to You, along with all of 1002 01:01:05,996 --> 01:01:09,796 Speaker 1: our favorite Springsteen songs on my playlist at broken podcast 1003 01:01:09,956 --> 01:01:12,556 Speaker 1: dot com, and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube 1004 01:01:12,636 --> 01:01:16,596 Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcasts. There 1005 01:01:16,596 --> 01:01:19,236 Speaker 1: you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes. 1006 01:01:19,876 --> 01:01:23,156 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 1007 01:01:23,516 --> 01:01:28,276 Speaker 1: Artine Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and his executive Produced by Melobell. 1008 01:01:29,196 --> 01:01:32,036 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and If 1009 01:01:32,036 --> 01:01:34,596 Speaker 1: you like Broken Record, please remember to share, rate, and 1010 01:01:34,636 --> 01:01:38,076 Speaker 1: review our show on your podcast staff. I'm Justin Richmond 1011 01:01:38,236 --> 01:01:38,556 Speaker 1: bass