WEBVTT - Exchanging Exchanges at Exchange 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Bell 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:15.360 tunis Eric. Every once in a while you ditched me 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:20.079 and go to Sunny Locale's. Uh, every year you go 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.960 to Miami for a trade show talked about ETFs? What 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:25.960 trade show is it? And what are we gonna talk 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.400 about on today's episode? Yeah, So it used to be 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.440 in Hollywood, Florida. Now it's a Miami UM been going 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.480 for about twelve years. It used to be called Inside 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.360 et F now it's called Exchange. But as I've said 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.639 many times to me, it's like the Comic Con of ETFs. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.200 It's just short of people dressing up as their favorite 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.360 et F. UM. It's a big celebration of the industry 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.519 that could actually happen. Honestly, it really could. I think, Um, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:52.760 that's something to consider for the Slanning Committee. Maybe just 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.880 a big ball one night where you all you dress 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.680 up as your favorite et F and there's a dance 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:01.280 and I don't know, just throwing out ideas. It's not 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.400 the worst day, but this industry is is just sizzling 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.720 with with action and innovation and excitement, and it's been 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.000 that way the all twelve years. So once again this 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.679 conference um delivered. I had a good time. The days 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.720 fly by by nine ten pm, I am fried, and 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:20.120 then you just get up and do it all over 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.560 again and then bam, you're on your plane home and 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.920 you're like, wow, that was like a trade show. So 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.400 take away from this year anything original. There are definitely 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.559 some interesting takeaways. I don't want to steal the thunder 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.120 of the people I interviewed, So I went around and interviewed, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.440 you know, eight to ten people about some of the 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.160 takeaways in the big themes in the conference, and you 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.480 know what they had to say, and um, yeah, there 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.480 was It was different this year. You can tell a 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.080 bear market had happened. It was a little more subdued 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.440 in terms of the booths and stuff and um, but 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.400 people still excited doing things again. Some you know, soccer 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.840 ball gets kicked around the field in finance, but there's 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.440 always a field and this is uh E. T f 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.520 s are vehicles to serve whatever you're looking for in 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.120 that field. So the industry again was very happy they 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.240 had a big year last year, considering the markets and 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.840 looking forward to more growth this year. So that's the 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.160 thing with the t F industry. There's just this feeling 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.680 of you're on the right side of history. Uh, there's 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.520 a wave you're surfing. It's just a nice feeling rather 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.079 than an industry that's you say, shrinking this time on 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:23.120 Trilliance exchanges from the Exchange e t F conference. Okay, Eric, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.160 so you you brought a recorder with you. You stick 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.200 the recorder in people's face, Ask him a question, get 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.840 the response. Who we're gonna hear from first? First we'll 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.079 go with Brian lake Um. He is heads up JP 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.200 Morgan's global et F efforts, and Brian had a big year. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.640 JP Morgan crushed it. They are at a hundred billion 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.799 dollars now. I think five years ago they might have 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.359 had seven billion. They had the biggest active et F 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.000 in terms of flows. JEP is the ticker and it 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.680 outflowed arcs best year. So JP Morgan has really cracked 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.600 the code on how to come in a little late 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.000 and be successful. And so Brian, who used to work 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.280 at power Shares before JP Morgan, so he's like an 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.200 et F guy at art. He's the one who came 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.960 on about five years ago here and said ets will 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.320 hit thirty trillion by I believe that number was global 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:08.679 so we had him on e t F i Q 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.480 which shut down there, and he said, U S E 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.320 t S will double to fifteen trillion in the next 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.520 five years. I mean, this would take a lot there 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.320 at six point seven trillion. Now he's saying fifteen in 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.640 five years. But I asked him if he still thinks 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.840 thirty for thirty is going to happen, which is thirty 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:24.919 trillion by twenty thirty years. What he says, I think 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.760 we're on schedule, Eric, I mean, look, you know, we're 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.520 celebrating thirty years. There's never been a rolling five year 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.160 period where E t F assets haven't doubled. Two thousand 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.120 seventeen to two thousand twenty two, they went from three 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.880 point five to seven trillion. We think, actually they can 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.360 go from seven trillion to fifteen in the next five years. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:46.080 A little bit of market, another DOUBLET and thirty's we're there. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.920 We're on track. So that's pretty optimistic, I'd say, so, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.640 especially off this year that we've just had. So what 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.320 the market is a big variable. If the markets are 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.320 flat or go down, it makes it tougher. That means 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.760 you got to get that seven trillion and just buy flows, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.080 and that would be like over a trillion a year, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.040 and ETFs have never taken in over a trillion a year. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.480 That said, there's a big lump of money over in 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:08.960 the act of mutual fund side, and I believe a 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.320 lot of that will just sort of convert over, which 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.440 technically doesn't count as flows in all cases, but I 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.040 think that's what could get us there if the markets 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.000 don't help. But if the markets start to return again, 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.799 like five ten percent a year, the markets can really 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.440 help you. And all of a sudden, those numbers are 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:26.240 not that hard to achieve. So look, I I think 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.600 theo I think they will eclipse fifteen trillion. If I 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.360 had to bet, and I did Athanasio Saraphagus on my team. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.440 He took the under, I took the over. We'll see. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.360 I think the markets. I think I'm just bullish on 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.400 the US markets in general. I think they'll come back eventually, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.320 maybe after another rough year or two, and then I 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.640 think you'll have a bunch of money that comes over 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.400 from the mutual fund side in like sort of lump form. 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.320 I was gonna say lump. He feels like that it's 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.280 gonna You're not gonna be able to figure out exactly 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.920 what that what that number is gonna look like it's 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.159 going to change every year, but maybe at the end 0:04:54.200 --> 0:05:01.760 of it there's a big momp some there. Okay, number 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:06.279 two alright, so yes, everything is optimistic, but the vibe, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.640 as I mentioned earlier, was kind of subdued. You know. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.640 Last year, arc was the centerpiece. There was crypto everywhere. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.279 Uh E s G. There was a lot of shiny 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.040 objects all around, right, None of that. This year it 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.160 was a little more. It just felt a little more 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.000 accountant ish, if you will. Sober. Here's Matt Hogan, who 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.680 actually was one of the people who started inside ets 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.760 way back in the day, on this sort of different 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.960 mood this year. Yeah, everyone got sucker punched in the 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.080 gut last year with all risk assets down, and that's 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:40.960 turned into much more subdued booths. Let's say, fewer basketball games, 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:45.040 fewer cars for your race, car driving, no golf, uh, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.840 much more serious, much more about product. That's probably for 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.880 the best, and it's a good signal that maybe we're 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.560 at the bottom and once we see car driving returned 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.400 to this conference, that's the time to sell car driving. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.600 Matt Hogan with booths as e stomic signals, which is 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.600 he has a point kind of reminded me the Big 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.880 Short Remember when he went in and goes, there's this 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.200 is the top. He just sensed it, you know, And 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.960 he's right. The crazier the boost get the more you're 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.520 at a late cyclable market. And uh, this this was 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.600 not This is a really stripped down There's a lot 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.200 of boosts. Everybody is still there, but definitely stripped down 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.600 and look a little more professional, I guess maybe. And 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.400 the car driving part. Have you gone to the racetrack there. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.360 I'm usually a little too busy to partake in these booths. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.880 Sometimes if you have a really good booth like a 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.320 car simulator, there's a line and I'm not going to 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:33.720 stand in line to do it or you know. But 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.840 I do remember doing the I Shares basketball. That was fun. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.600 I would go over and shoot hoops every now and 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.880 then with them, but there was no line on that one. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.559 And remember remember a couple of years back, Quincy Jones 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.200 was there. Sometimes you get that like celebrity factor as well. Um, 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.880 and we interviewed him and uh yeah, just a lot 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.360 less of that this year. Um. That said, now, Matt 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.120 is an et F guy who went to crypto there's 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:55.600 been about seven or eight of them. A couple of 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.400 them will come back. They're coming back over. So I 0:06:58.520 --> 0:06:59.960 sort of asked, Matt, are you going to come back? 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.880 Go over? How do you feel about crypto? And here's 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.200 what he said. I'm more convicted about crypto now than 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.520 when I moved into the industry five years ago. So 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.840 the level of technological progress is amazing. I think we're 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.440 in a new bowl market. I think it's the market 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.640 where crypto goes mainstream. So people aren't talking about crypto 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.360 much this year. I bet it will be a bigger 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.400 conversation next year, and two years from now we'll be 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:26.200 back to crypto being a significant portion of this event mainstream. Yeah. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.480 I mean, look, here's the thing. On one hand, crypto 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.360 clearly has a big black eye now, I mean, how 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.320 can you think you're going to invest in maybe three 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.560 Not only did it go down because it was like 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.400 a high beta investment that people sold off when the 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.480 market went down, but then you have a situation where 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.360 you can't get your money out. I mean, these are major, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.040 major pr issues, but it's still survives Like it's like um, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.679 a cockroach, it just comes back. It's just you cannot 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.640 kill it. And I think that's where I give respected 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.160 and I know Matt is a deep thinker and I 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.840 would not bet again them. So, Um, you know, I'm 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.240 not gonna say that what he just said is wrong. Um, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.239 I'm a little doubtful. Um, it will come back, is strong. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.080 But again we've we've seen this movie before and it 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:15.320 does come back. Yeah, I'm curious with the regulatory framework. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.720 Looks like in these two years that he's describing there, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.040 he would probably argue, well, that's a good thing because 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.000 it will spf proof people make them feel better about 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.200 going in and they'll appreciate it. But then again, if 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.720 you regulate and and make crypto so normal, it almost 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.880 becomes traditional finance. And then what's the point. I mean, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:33.959 I don't know. There's so much to unpack with this. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:43.400 It's a whole, like separate episode, I think. Alright, Number 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.480 four Okay, so one of the big panels was on 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.960 like whether you should still invest in stocks. Remember that term, Tina, 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.839 there is no alternative where there is nothing else to 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.560 do but just buy stocks now, Like my boss, Gina 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.240 Martin Adams has a phrase tera there is a rational 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.080 alternative or reasonable alternative, and that's why we see people 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.880 moving into treasuries in different places and diversifying. But there 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.760 was a debate over Tina, and Liz Young of Sophar 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.920 I thought, had a very good comment about it, and 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.719 we you know, asked her about Tina and why it 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.080 really never goes away. Um, it might just change for him. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.679 So here she is, Yeah, Well, I don't think Tina's 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.199 ever really over right. If you're investor who's trying to 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.600 build wealth, you have to be in stocks in order 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.440 to build long term growth. You you can't abandon equities entirely. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.599 There's something that you know, what's happening right now is 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.960 this kind of structural shift in the market. We've got 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.480 higher rates for longer, we've got inflation, we've got all 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.719 kinds of stuff that hasn't been in play for the 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.240 better part of the last two to four decades. So 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.559 there's a rotation maybe in leadership, and you could change 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.599 what you own in the equity market. So one of 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.920 the things that I've been talking about lately is this 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.400 old Fama French model, right, And that's if anybody doesn't 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.320 know what that is, go google it. Put yourselves to sleep. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.360 It's this very old theory that has not worked in 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.560 twenty years. But basically it suggests that small caps should 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.120 beat large caps, value should beat growth. And I think 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.319 it's actually coming back into play because the environment has changed. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.680 But I don't think you can ever say Tina is dead. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.040 You need stocks in a portfolio to grow wealth over 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.120 the long term. Oh that's spicy, it is, But it 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.920 isn't like she's right. I mean, you can't not get 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.679 that equity market premium. I mean, it's what are we 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.640 really doing here? And I broke this down in the 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.079 Bogol book. We are trying to make money by being 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.440 owners of a company, and the company makes money because 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.199 they all everybody gets up, creates value, and that creates 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.880 cash flow and dividends. That's what you're investing in. And 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.920 so I don't know. To try to time that is difficult, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:44.760 and so personally I'm sticking with stocks. Now. What she's saying, though, 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.120 is maybe you take a little off large because it 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.480 grew so much and you rebounce into small something like that. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.040 I get that, Like there are areas that get left 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.320 behind a little bit, and I think small and Value 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.240 was was one of those. So it could be an 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.480 error where small and value kind of outperformed large, but 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.719 you're still talking about stock and the returns they give you. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.360 Did you read the fumba French paper. I know what 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.439 it is. I didn't read it um, but yeah, it's 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.040 very it's very much of a gospel in the factor world. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.120 Who's next? Next? We got Julie Kane, who is from 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.840 Democracy Investments. She does something similar to what Perth told 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:24.480 does of the Freedom Fund, which is the sort of 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.439 serve up international investing, but stripped out the authoritarianism from 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.120 the fund and sort of overweight the democracy. And this 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:32.760 is a sort of I guess e s G GEO 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.040 political style. Anyway, she had sat in the interview with 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.120 Ian Bremer, who runs a political risk think tank called 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.600 the Eurasia Group yep uh and Katie gray felt our 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.520 own Katie Greifeld interviewed him and so Julie was pumped 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.400 up because Ian was kind of speaking her language. And 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.959 here's what she said about international Yeah, I'm seeing renewed 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:56.720 interest in international in general. Uh. Great talk yesterday by 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.920 Ian Bremer, adjusting what he calls a guoke political recession. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.600 He had a lot of concerning news. His one positive 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:10.240 news was democracy and the power of institutions to come 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:16.200 together and fight back. So that, Uh, that validated our strategy, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.920 which is to use the Economist Democracy Index to overallocate 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.560 into democracies and under allocate to authoritarians. So we feel 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.959 like our strategy is more timely now than ever. So 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.640 how does her strategy compare with TOLLS? The big difference 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.880 is TOLLS is only emerging markets, hers is all international, um. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.240 But they have some overlap for sure, um. And it's 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.400 they're trying to They're on the same frequency, if you will. 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.600 And I think they have the same goals, um for sure, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.280 but they're slightly different takes. It is an interesting time 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.840 to be thinking and talking about this because we've seen 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.880 all these norms that have been bedrocks of sort of 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.240 modern society for decades just start to get tested in 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.280 ways that we haven't really seen before. And that is 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.120 a variable that investors have not had to face. Yeah, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.480 I mean there was definitely a political nature to his 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.319 talk which I won't touch. But um, I definitely think 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.080 international is a hot issue now. If you look at 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.760 the flows merging markets, international are taking in way more 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.480 money than normally do. People are definitely rotating into this trade. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.839 The Suzanne Wooly article I did on where to Invest 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.640 the money, where she has five experts. Everyone recommended International. 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.000 Here's the thing, though, I've seen this movie before. International 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.040 was supposed to work like ten times in the past 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.400 fifteen years. So I don't know. I'm gonna just wait 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.600 and see. I want to really see it take hold 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.640 before I can sort of respect this as a full 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.600 like a trade that is going to last a while. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.880 I think for now, I'm I'm a little skeptical, to 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:44.680 be honest. Next al right, Next up we have Hector 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.240 McNeil of Han E t F. He's a European issuere 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.520 so he came all the way over here in Miami. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.199 Why not? Why not? He's a white label issuer, sort 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.160 of like remember our white label episode we did um 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.280 a couple of weeks back, where these are issuers where 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:58.640 you can come to them with an idea and they 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.199 will just sort of make your et F. Are you 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:01.880 if they like it and feel like they want to 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.920 work with you, so they start by saying no, it's 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.440 might might take from that episode, so I asked him 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.079 about the Royal Gold ETF which he put out and 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:12.920 that was one of our e t F to watch 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.800 in twenty three um and gold has become gotten a 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.840 little more attention because crypto has been so in the doghouse. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.800 So here he is talking about this interesting et F 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.680 that he put out under his white label. Yeah. So 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.960 so when when we looks at the white label market, 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.280 we we felt that we couldn't be the eurostops guys 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.400 at two basiness points hieing the last guys or simply 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.360 whatever it is. So we would only do stuff that's 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.600 gonna our value to the to the market, right because ultimately, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.360 if we're going up against the ice shares and investco 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.560 is whatever you need to have something else, something in 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.360 the something in the pot. And then the roleman knocked 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.520 on our door and the roleman I'm I'm a big 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.000 history buff. It's it's fantastic. Actually, if you ever you 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:49.440 ever got a chance, we can take you down to 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.840 the v I P tour of it, you know, fifty site. 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.360 But it's the Britain's all this company. It's the fourth 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:55.800 owners company in the world. It was set up in 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.480 eight eight nine by offered the Great to finance the 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.960 Viking walls. Right, and you can go see the coins there. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.880 Isaac Newton was a CEO there for twenty seven years. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.040 Everything Isaac Newton's a scientist, but he had a their job, 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.200 and he created the first modern noncuntterfeedable coin, and he 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.200 created with serrated edges because in the past people used 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.240 to chip bits off gold coins or whatever, you know, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.480 because people wuldn't know it. So there's a huge amount 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.920 of history. It survived the Black Plague, it's survived Spanish flu, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.400 civil wars, two World Wars, whatever. Right, so it's you know, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.520 I've got the best credit history in the world of 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.080 financial companies. I think the only older companies are a 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.480 German pub and three Samurai sword companies, believe it or not. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.200 So when they came along and said, look, we've we've 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.160 got to We've got a gold each year gold offering, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.160 you know, and we said, well, this is great because 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.920 it's different because you know, pretty much all the gold 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.320 ea jifs in the world either keep their gold at 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.840 JP Morgan or HSBC in London in New York, and 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.760 as you know, golds buyers are paranoid. So having a 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.320 vault that's in the middle of the Welsh countryside more 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.320 secure vault in the world. Nuclear blast Proof used to 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.480 be a Ministry defense site until twenty seventeen, you know, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.320 and his out side the financial system, because that's the 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.200 other thing. It always askay, we'll buy gold ETFs to 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.000 head against financial systemic risk, and then they keep the 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.520 golden banks. You know, it's a bit bizarre, isn't it. Really. 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:11.840 I want to spend some more time with Hector yea 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:17.400 with it with it. Yeah, you know, I'd never say 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.160 years there are three digits ever, but I really like 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.560 this interview. This is one of the longer ones I 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.360 clip because a some interesting factoids in there. I gotta say, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.080 um too, there's always stories in the smaller issues. There's 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.160 always some interesting stuff to unpack. And also remember he's 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.800 not the royal mint. That's his client kind of, but 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:36.960 he learned everything about it because he's got to sell 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.600 the e t F and he's got to compete, as 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.040 he said, against the black Rock and vanguards of the world, 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.160 and it's tough. You have to have difference in stories. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.840 So there are so many issuers at this event, and 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.800 they have so many stories to tell, and that's I 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.120 think just a great example of the kind of stuff 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.480 you can hear beyond like oh, here's my large cap 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.520 stock etf Also, I think he invited us on a tour. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.400 I really I had a vision in my mind of 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.640 like the Welsh countryside going on this v I p 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.200 towards the Royal Man. I think we should do it. 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:13.720 I mean, I think we let's do it. Sounds pretty good, Okay. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.160 Next next up, we have the one and only Todd 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.600 rosen Bluth Vertify. So, as you know, Todd and I 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.960 have a myriad of bets going on, and one of 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.480 them just ended, and one of them was Capital Group. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.400 I had the under that they wouldn't get the seven 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.159 billion in the first year, and they did. They did 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.040 it with two weeks of spare. This breaks a streak, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.679 it does. I was, well, I lost two this year 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.320 to him, so I'm three and two. Yeah, he's crawling 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.040 back market. Yeah, I know, I should just think the 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:45.040 bullmarket bets. Yeah, anyway, here he is taking a victory lap. Alright. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.720 So Capital Group has not even hit its one year 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:52.040 anniversary and it has passed seven billion dollars. I want 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.040 to repeat seven billion dollars. I was on a Chillian's 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.440 podcast a little over a year ago and joined a 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.840 bet with you. Eric where it sounded so lofty, but 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.000 Capital Group came through, and now as a result of it, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.280 many clients are happy. Capital Group is certainly happy, and 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.240 you're gonna be buying me a stake as a result 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.960 of it. So now I'm on a winning streak in 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:14.919 the e t F puned in bet, so I couldn't 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.840 be happier for a Capital Group. He's jacked up. He is, 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.440 he said he should be. It was a year long 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.440 bet and get this. They were at six nine two 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.560 or something like that, so they were like just about 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:28.960 to get it. And that was the day Powell was 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.080 supposed to speak, and there was a question of whether 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.600 he was going to just be really hawkish to try 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.000 to tell the market we're no, we're nowhere near close 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.119 to done. But he got a little dovish, so the 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.480 markets rallied and it hit seven just on the ad 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.800 the market appreciation. I was thinking this scenario, if Paul 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.760 Powell was going to get real hawkish and the market 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.560 appreciation would turn to depreciation and it would depreciate so 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.159 much that the flows wouldn't off said it, and I 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.960 would have won the bet. After he got a centimeter 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.480 away from seven, it was going to be such a 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.120 classic moment, but wasn't meant to be. And so Todd, 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.679 if you're listening, congrats, and yeah, he's gonna definitely let 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:18.840 you know about that steak dinner. Up next on the list, 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.480 you have Beth Williamson Calumus. What did she have to say? 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.440 Calamos just put out on e t F that is 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.040 an E s G fund that you know, the basketball 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.600 player Janice, I can't really pronounce his last name, but 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.679