Speaker 1: Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Bell
Speaker 1: tunis Eric. Every once in a while you ditched me
Speaker 1: and go to Sunny Locale's. Uh, every year you go
Speaker 1: to Miami for a trade show talked about ETFs? What
Speaker 1: trade show is it? And what are we gonna talk
Speaker 1: about on today's episode? Yeah, So it used to be
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, Florida. Now it's a Miami UM been going
Speaker 1: for about twelve years. It used to be called Inside
Speaker 1: et F now it's called Exchange. But as I've said
Speaker 1: many times to me, it's like the Comic Con of ETFs.
Speaker 1: It's just short of people dressing up as their favorite
Speaker 1: et F. UM. It's a big celebration of the industry
Speaker 1: that could actually happen. Honestly, it really could. I think, Um,
Speaker 1: that's something to consider for the Slanning Committee. Maybe just
Speaker 1: a big ball one night where you all you dress
Speaker 1: up as your favorite et F and there's a dance
Speaker 1: and I don't know, just throwing out ideas. It's not
Speaker 1: the worst day, but this industry is is just sizzling
Speaker 1: with with action and innovation and excitement, and it's been
Speaker 1: that way the all twelve years. So once again this
Speaker 1: conference um delivered. I had a good time. The days
Speaker 1: fly by by nine ten pm, I am fried, and
Speaker 1: then you just get up and do it all over
Speaker 1: again and then bam, you're on your plane home and
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, that was like a trade show. So
Speaker 1: take away from this year anything original. There are definitely
Speaker 1: some interesting takeaways. I don't want to steal the thunder
Speaker 1: of the people I interviewed, So I went around and interviewed,
Speaker 1: you know, eight to ten people about some of the
Speaker 1: takeaways in the big themes in the conference, and you
Speaker 1: know what they had to say, and um, yeah, there
Speaker 1: was It was different this year. You can tell a
Speaker 1: bear market had happened. It was a little more subdued
Speaker 1: in terms of the booths and stuff and um, but
Speaker 1: people still excited doing things again. Some you know, soccer
Speaker 1: ball gets kicked around the field in finance, but there's
Speaker 1: always a field and this is uh E. T f
Speaker 1: s are vehicles to serve whatever you're looking for in
Speaker 1: that field. So the industry again was very happy they
Speaker 1: had a big year last year, considering the markets and
Speaker 1: looking forward to more growth this year. So that's the
Speaker 1: thing with the t F industry. There's just this feeling
Speaker 1: of you're on the right side of history. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: a wave you're surfing. It's just a nice feeling rather
Speaker 1: than an industry that's you say, shrinking this time on
Speaker 1: Trilliance exchanges from the Exchange e t F conference. Okay, Eric,
Speaker 1: so you you brought a recorder with you. You stick
Speaker 1: the recorder in people's face, Ask him a question, get
Speaker 1: the response. Who we're gonna hear from first? First we'll
Speaker 1: go with Brian lake Um. He is heads up JP
Speaker 1: Morgan's global et F efforts, and Brian had a big year.
Speaker 1: JP Morgan crushed it. They are at a hundred billion
Speaker 1: dollars now. I think five years ago they might have
Speaker 1: had seven billion. They had the biggest active et F
Speaker 1: in terms of flows. JEP is the ticker and it
Speaker 1: outflowed arcs best year. So JP Morgan has really cracked
Speaker 1: the code on how to come in a little late
Speaker 1: and be successful. And so Brian, who used to work
Speaker 1: at power Shares before JP Morgan, so he's like an
Speaker 1: et F guy at art. He's the one who came
Speaker 1: on about five years ago here and said ets will
Speaker 1: hit thirty trillion by I believe that number was global
Speaker 1: so we had him on e t F i Q
Speaker 1: which shut down there, and he said, U S E
Speaker 1: t S will double to fifteen trillion in the next
Speaker 1: five years. I mean, this would take a lot there
Speaker 1: at six point seven trillion. Now he's saying fifteen in
Speaker 1: five years. But I asked him if he still thinks
Speaker 1: thirty for thirty is going to happen, which is thirty
Speaker 1: trillion by twenty thirty years. What he says, I think
Speaker 1: we're on schedule, Eric, I mean, look, you know, we're
Speaker 1: celebrating thirty years. There's never been a rolling five year
Speaker 1: period where E t F assets haven't doubled. Two thousand
Speaker 1: seventeen to two thousand twenty two, they went from three
Speaker 1: point five to seven trillion. We think, actually they can
Speaker 1: go from seven trillion to fifteen in the next five years.
Speaker 1: A little bit of market, another DOUBLET and thirty's we're there.
Speaker 1: We're on track. So that's pretty optimistic, I'd say, so,
Speaker 1: especially off this year that we've just had. So what
Speaker 1: the market is a big variable. If the markets are
Speaker 1: flat or go down, it makes it tougher. That means
Speaker 1: you got to get that seven trillion and just buy flows,
Speaker 1: and that would be like over a trillion a year,
Speaker 1: and ETFs have never taken in over a trillion a year.
Speaker 1: That said, there's a big lump of money over in
Speaker 1: the act of mutual fund side, and I believe a
Speaker 1: lot of that will just sort of convert over, which
Speaker 1: technically doesn't count as flows in all cases, but I
Speaker 1: think that's what could get us there if the markets
Speaker 1: don't help. But if the markets start to return again,
Speaker 1: like five ten percent a year, the markets can really
Speaker 1: help you. And all of a sudden, those numbers are
Speaker 1: not that hard to achieve. So look, I I think
Speaker 1: theo I think they will eclipse fifteen trillion. If I
Speaker 1: had to bet, and I did Athanasio Saraphagus on my team.
Speaker 1: He took the under, I took the over. We'll see.
Speaker 1: I think the markets. I think I'm just bullish on
Speaker 1: the US markets in general. I think they'll come back eventually,
Speaker 1: maybe after another rough year or two, and then I
Speaker 1: think you'll have a bunch of money that comes over
Speaker 1: from the mutual fund side in like sort of lump form.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say lump. He feels like that it's
Speaker 1: gonna You're not gonna be able to figure out exactly
Speaker 1: what that what that number is gonna look like it's
Speaker 1: going to change every year, but maybe at the end
Speaker 1: of it there's a big momp some there. Okay, number
Speaker 1: two alright, so yes, everything is optimistic, but the vibe,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, was kind of subdued. You know.
Speaker 1: Last year, arc was the centerpiece. There was crypto everywhere.
Speaker 1: Uh E s G. There was a lot of shiny
Speaker 1: objects all around, right, None of that. This year it
Speaker 1: was a little more. It just felt a little more
Speaker 1: accountant ish, if you will. Sober. Here's Matt Hogan, who
Speaker 1: actually was one of the people who started inside ets
Speaker 1: way back in the day, on this sort of different
Speaker 1: mood this year. Yeah, everyone got sucker punched in the
Speaker 1: gut last year with all risk assets down, and that's
Speaker 1: turned into much more subdued booths. Let's say, fewer basketball games,
Speaker 1: fewer cars for your race, car driving, no golf, uh,
Speaker 1: much more serious, much more about product. That's probably for
Speaker 1: the best, and it's a good signal that maybe we're
Speaker 1: at the bottom and once we see car driving returned
Speaker 1: to this conference, that's the time to sell car driving.
Speaker 1: Matt Hogan with booths as e stomic signals, which is
Speaker 1: he has a point kind of reminded me the Big
Speaker 1: Short Remember when he went in and goes, there's this
Speaker 1: is the top. He just sensed it, you know, And
Speaker 1: he's right. The crazier the boost get the more you're
Speaker 1: at a late cyclable market. And uh, this this was
Speaker 1: not This is a really stripped down There's a lot
Speaker 1: of boosts. Everybody is still there, but definitely stripped down
Speaker 1: and look a little more professional, I guess maybe. And
Speaker 1: the car driving part. Have you gone to the racetrack there.
Speaker 1: I'm usually a little too busy to partake in these booths.
Speaker 1: Sometimes if you have a really good booth like a
Speaker 1: car simulator, there's a line and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: stand in line to do it or you know. But
Speaker 1: I do remember doing the I Shares basketball. That was fun.
Speaker 1: I would go over and shoot hoops every now and
Speaker 1: then with them, but there was no line on that one.
Speaker 1: And remember remember a couple of years back, Quincy Jones
Speaker 1: was there. Sometimes you get that like celebrity factor as well. Um,
Speaker 1: and we interviewed him and uh yeah, just a lot
Speaker 1: less of that this year. Um. That said, now, Matt
Speaker 1: is an et F guy who went to crypto there's
Speaker 1: been about seven or eight of them. A couple of
Speaker 1: them will come back. They're coming back over. So I
Speaker 1: sort of asked, Matt, are you going to come back?
Speaker 1: Go over? How do you feel about crypto? And here's
Speaker 1: what he said. I'm more convicted about crypto now than
Speaker 1: when I moved into the industry five years ago. So
Speaker 1: the level of technological progress is amazing. I think we're
Speaker 1: in a new bowl market. I think it's the market
Speaker 1: where crypto goes mainstream. So people aren't talking about crypto
Speaker 1: much this year. I bet it will be a bigger
Speaker 1: conversation next year, and two years from now we'll be
Speaker 1: back to crypto being a significant portion of this event mainstream. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, here's the thing. On one hand, crypto
Speaker 1: clearly has a big black eye now, I mean, how
Speaker 1: can you think you're going to invest in maybe three
Speaker 1: Not only did it go down because it was like
Speaker 1: a high beta investment that people sold off when the
Speaker 1: market went down, but then you have a situation where
Speaker 1: you can't get your money out. I mean, these are major,
Speaker 1: major pr issues, but it's still survives Like it's like um,
Speaker 1: a cockroach, it just comes back. It's just you cannot
Speaker 1: kill it. And I think that's where I give respected
Speaker 1: and I know Matt is a deep thinker and I
Speaker 1: would not bet again them. So, Um, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say that what he just said is wrong. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm a little doubtful. Um, it will come back, is strong.
Speaker 1: But again we've we've seen this movie before and it
Speaker 1: does come back. Yeah, I'm curious with the regulatory framework.
Speaker 1: Looks like in these two years that he's describing there,
Speaker 1: he would probably argue, well, that's a good thing because
Speaker 1: it will spf proof people make them feel better about
Speaker 1: going in and they'll appreciate it. But then again, if
Speaker 1: you regulate and and make crypto so normal, it almost
Speaker 1: becomes traditional finance. And then what's the point. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's so much to unpack with this.
Speaker 1: It's a whole, like separate episode, I think. Alright, Number
Speaker 1: four Okay, so one of the big panels was on
Speaker 1: like whether you should still invest in stocks. Remember that term, Tina,
Speaker 1: there is no alternative where there is nothing else to
Speaker 1: do but just buy stocks now, Like my boss, Gina
Speaker 1: Martin Adams has a phrase tera there is a rational
Speaker 1: alternative or reasonable alternative, and that's why we see people
Speaker 1: moving into treasuries in different places and diversifying. But there
Speaker 1: was a debate over Tina, and Liz Young of Sophar
Speaker 1: I thought, had a very good comment about it, and
Speaker 1: we you know, asked her about Tina and why it
Speaker 1: really never goes away. Um, it might just change for him.
Speaker 1: So here she is, Yeah, Well, I don't think Tina's
Speaker 1: ever really over right. If you're investor who's trying to
Speaker 1: build wealth, you have to be in stocks in order
Speaker 1: to build long term growth. You you can't abandon equities entirely.
Speaker 1: There's something that you know, what's happening right now is
Speaker 1: this kind of structural shift in the market. We've got
Speaker 1: higher rates for longer, we've got inflation, we've got all
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff that hasn't been in play for the
Speaker 1: better part of the last two to four decades. So
Speaker 1: there's a rotation maybe in leadership, and you could change
Speaker 1: what you own in the equity market. So one of
Speaker 1: the things that I've been talking about lately is this
Speaker 1: old Fama French model, right, And that's if anybody doesn't
Speaker 1: know what that is, go google it. Put yourselves to sleep.
Speaker 1: It's this very old theory that has not worked in
Speaker 1: twenty years. But basically it suggests that small caps should
Speaker 1: beat large caps, value should beat growth. And I think
Speaker 1: it's actually coming back into play because the environment has changed.
Speaker 1: But I don't think you can ever say Tina is dead.
Speaker 1: You need stocks in a portfolio to grow wealth over
Speaker 1: the long term. Oh that's spicy, it is, But it
Speaker 1: isn't like she's right. I mean, you can't not get
Speaker 1: that equity market premium. I mean, it's what are we
Speaker 1: really doing here? And I broke this down in the
Speaker 1: Bogol book. We are trying to make money by being
Speaker 1: owners of a company, and the company makes money because
Speaker 1: they all everybody gets up, creates value, and that creates
Speaker 1: cash flow and dividends. That's what you're investing in. And
Speaker 1: so I don't know. To try to time that is difficult,
Speaker 1: and so personally I'm sticking with stocks. Now. What she's saying, though,
Speaker 1: is maybe you take a little off large because it
Speaker 1: grew so much and you rebounce into small something like that.
Speaker 1: I get that, Like there are areas that get left
Speaker 1: behind a little bit, and I think small and Value
Speaker 1: was was one of those. So it could be an
Speaker 1: error where small and value kind of outperformed large, but
Speaker 1: you're still talking about stock and the returns they give you.
Speaker 1: Did you read the fumba French paper. I know what
Speaker 1: it is. I didn't read it um, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: very it's very much of a gospel in the factor world.
Speaker 1: Who's next? Next? We got Julie Kane, who is from
Speaker 1: Democracy Investments. She does something similar to what Perth told
Speaker 1: does of the Freedom Fund, which is the sort of
Speaker 1: serve up international investing, but stripped out the authoritarianism from
Speaker 1: the fund and sort of overweight the democracy. And this
Speaker 1: is a sort of I guess e s G GEO
Speaker 1: political style. Anyway, she had sat in the interview with
Speaker 1: Ian Bremer, who runs a political risk think tank called
Speaker 1: the Eurasia Group yep uh and Katie gray felt our
Speaker 1: own Katie Greifeld interviewed him and so Julie was pumped
Speaker 1: up because Ian was kind of speaking her language. And
Speaker 1: here's what she said about international Yeah, I'm seeing renewed
Speaker 1: interest in international in general. Uh. Great talk yesterday by
Speaker 1: Ian Bremer, adjusting what he calls a guoke political recession.
Speaker 1: He had a lot of concerning news. His one positive
Speaker 1: news was democracy and the power of institutions to come
Speaker 1: together and fight back. So that, Uh, that validated our strategy,
Speaker 1: which is to use the Economist Democracy Index to overallocate
Speaker 1: into democracies and under allocate to authoritarians. So we feel
Speaker 1: like our strategy is more timely now than ever. So
Speaker 1: how does her strategy compare with TOLLS? The big difference
Speaker 1: is TOLLS is only emerging markets, hers is all international, um.
Speaker 1: But they have some overlap for sure, um. And it's
Speaker 1: they're trying to They're on the same frequency, if you will.
Speaker 1: And I think they have the same goals, um for sure,
Speaker 1: but they're slightly different takes. It is an interesting time
Speaker 1: to be thinking and talking about this because we've seen
Speaker 1: all these norms that have been bedrocks of sort of
Speaker 1: modern society for decades just start to get tested in
Speaker 1: ways that we haven't really seen before. And that is
Speaker 1: a variable that investors have not had to face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there was definitely a political nature to his
Speaker 1: talk which I won't touch. But um, I definitely think
Speaker 1: international is a hot issue now. If you look at
Speaker 1: the flows merging markets, international are taking in way more
Speaker 1: money than normally do. People are definitely rotating into this trade.
Speaker 1: The Suzanne Wooly article I did on where to Invest
Speaker 1: the money, where she has five experts. Everyone recommended International.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, I've seen this movie before. International
Speaker 1: was supposed to work like ten times in the past
Speaker 1: fifteen years. So I don't know. I'm gonna just wait
Speaker 1: and see. I want to really see it take hold
Speaker 1: before I can sort of respect this as a full
Speaker 1: like a trade that is going to last a while.
Speaker 1: I think for now, I'm I'm a little skeptical, to
Speaker 1: be honest. Next al right, Next up we have Hector
Speaker 1: McNeil of Han E t F. He's a European issuere
Speaker 1: so he came all the way over here in Miami.
Speaker 1: Why not? Why not? He's a white label issuer, sort
Speaker 1: of like remember our white label episode we did um
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back, where these are issuers where
Speaker 1: you can come to them with an idea and they
Speaker 1: will just sort of make your et F. Are you
Speaker 1: if they like it and feel like they want to
Speaker 1: work with you, so they start by saying no, it's
Speaker 1: might might take from that episode, so I asked him
Speaker 1: about the Royal Gold ETF which he put out and
Speaker 1: that was one of our e t F to watch
Speaker 1: in twenty three um and gold has become gotten a
Speaker 1: little more attention because crypto has been so in the doghouse.
Speaker 1: So here he is talking about this interesting et F
Speaker 1: that he put out under his white label. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: so when when we looks at the white label market,
Speaker 1: we we felt that we couldn't be the eurostops guys
Speaker 1: at two basiness points hieing the last guys or simply
Speaker 1: whatever it is. So we would only do stuff that's
Speaker 1: gonna our value to the to the market, right because ultimately,
Speaker 1: if we're going up against the ice shares and investco
Speaker 1: is whatever you need to have something else, something in
Speaker 1: the something in the pot. And then the roleman knocked
Speaker 1: on our door and the roleman I'm I'm a big
Speaker 1: history buff. It's it's fantastic. Actually, if you ever you
Speaker 1: ever got a chance, we can take you down to
Speaker 1: the v I P tour of it, you know, fifty site.
Speaker 1: But it's the Britain's all this company. It's the fourth
Speaker 1: owners company in the world. It was set up in
Speaker 1: eight eight nine by offered the Great to finance the
Speaker 1: Viking walls. Right, and you can go see the coins there.
Speaker 1: Isaac Newton was a CEO there for twenty seven years.
Speaker 1: Everything Isaac Newton's a scientist, but he had a their job,
Speaker 1: and he created the first modern noncuntterfeedable coin, and he
Speaker 1: created with serrated edges because in the past people used
Speaker 1: to chip bits off gold coins or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: because people wuldn't know it. So there's a huge amount
Speaker 1: of history. It survived the Black Plague, it's survived Spanish flu,
Speaker 1: civil wars, two World Wars, whatever. Right, so it's you know,
Speaker 1: I've got the best credit history in the world of
Speaker 1: financial companies. I think the only older companies are a
Speaker 1: German pub and three Samurai sword companies, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: So when they came along and said, look, we've we've
Speaker 1: got to We've got a gold each year gold offering,
Speaker 1: you know, and we said, well, this is great because
Speaker 1: it's different because you know, pretty much all the gold
Speaker 1: ea jifs in the world either keep their gold at
Speaker 1: JP Morgan or HSBC in London in New York, and
Speaker 1: as you know, golds buyers are paranoid. So having a
Speaker 1: vault that's in the middle of the Welsh countryside more
Speaker 1: secure vault in the world. Nuclear blast Proof used to
Speaker 1: be a Ministry defense site until twenty seventeen, you know,
Speaker 1: and his out side the financial system, because that's the
Speaker 1: other thing. It always askay, we'll buy gold ETFs to
Speaker 1: head against financial systemic risk, and then they keep the
Speaker 1: golden banks. You know, it's a bit bizarre, isn't it. Really.
Speaker 1: I want to spend some more time with Hector yea
Speaker 1: with it with it. Yeah, you know, I'd never say
Speaker 1: years there are three digits ever, but I really like
Speaker 1: this interview. This is one of the longer ones I
Speaker 1: clip because a some interesting factoids in there. I gotta say,
Speaker 1: um too, there's always stories in the smaller issues. There's
Speaker 1: always some interesting stuff to unpack. And also remember he's
Speaker 1: not the royal mint. That's his client kind of, but
Speaker 1: he learned everything about it because he's got to sell
Speaker 1: the e t F and he's got to compete, as
Speaker 1: he said, against the black Rock and vanguards of the world,
Speaker 1: and it's tough. You have to have difference in stories.
Speaker 1: So there are so many issuers at this event, and
Speaker 1: they have so many stories to tell, and that's I
Speaker 1: think just a great example of the kind of stuff
Speaker 1: you can hear beyond like oh, here's my large cap
Speaker 1: stock etf Also, I think he invited us on a tour.
Speaker 1: I really I had a vision in my mind of
Speaker 1: like the Welsh countryside going on this v I p
Speaker 1: towards the Royal Man. I think we should do it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we let's do it. Sounds pretty good, Okay.
Speaker 1: Next next up, we have the one and only Todd
Speaker 1: rosen Bluth Vertify. So, as you know, Todd and I
Speaker 1: have a myriad of bets going on, and one of
Speaker 1: them just ended, and one of them was Capital Group.
Speaker 1: I had the under that they wouldn't get the seven
Speaker 1: billion in the first year, and they did. They did
Speaker 1: it with two weeks of spare. This breaks a streak,
Speaker 1: it does. I was, well, I lost two this year
Speaker 1: to him, so I'm three and two. Yeah, he's crawling
Speaker 1: back market. Yeah, I know, I should just think the
Speaker 1: bullmarket bets. Yeah, anyway, here he is taking a victory lap. Alright.
Speaker 1: So Capital Group has not even hit its one year
Speaker 1: anniversary and it has passed seven billion dollars. I want
Speaker 1: to repeat seven billion dollars. I was on a Chillian's
Speaker 1: podcast a little over a year ago and joined a
Speaker 1: bet with you. Eric where it sounded so lofty, but
Speaker 1: Capital Group came through, and now as a result of it,
Speaker 1: many clients are happy. Capital Group is certainly happy, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be buying me a stake as a result
Speaker 1: of it. So now I'm on a winning streak in
Speaker 1: the e t F puned in bet, so I couldn't
Speaker 1: be happier for a Capital Group. He's jacked up. He is,
Speaker 1: he said he should be. It was a year long
Speaker 1: bet and get this. They were at six nine two
Speaker 1: or something like that, so they were like just about
Speaker 1: to get it. And that was the day Powell was
Speaker 1: supposed to speak, and there was a question of whether
Speaker 1: he was going to just be really hawkish to try
Speaker 1: to tell the market we're no, we're nowhere near close
Speaker 1: to done. But he got a little dovish, so the
Speaker 1: markets rallied and it hit seven just on the ad
Speaker 1: the market appreciation. I was thinking this scenario, if Paul
Speaker 1: Powell was going to get real hawkish and the market
Speaker 1: appreciation would turn to depreciation and it would depreciate so
Speaker 1: much that the flows wouldn't off said it, and I
Speaker 1: would have won the bet. After he got a centimeter
Speaker 1: away from seven, it was going to be such a
Speaker 1: classic moment, but wasn't meant to be. And so Todd,
Speaker 1: if you're listening, congrats, and yeah, he's gonna definitely let
Speaker 1: you know about that steak dinner. Up next on the list,
Speaker 1: you have Beth Williamson Calumus. What did she have to say?
Speaker 1: Calamos just put out on e t F that is
Speaker 1: an E s G fund that you know, the basketball
Speaker 1: player Janice, I can't really pronounce his last name, but
Speaker 1: the Greek freak, the guy on the bucks. It's an
Speaker 1: E s G fund with his last name in it.
Speaker 1: And at first I was like, is this somebody else?
Speaker 1: And I look, don't know. He's actually partnered with Calamos
Speaker 1: to put this fund out that does E s G
Speaker 1: investing and then uses some of the proceeds to also
Speaker 1: invest back um. He apparently is looking to make a
Speaker 1: big difference and he's friends with the guy from Calamos,
Speaker 1: And so I asked Beth about the situation. John Cadoonas
Speaker 1: and uh Jana Santa to Kumpo are through mutual friends
Speaker 1: love at basketball. I see mentioned met a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago and they worked together to conceptualized idea on
Speaker 1: how to bring impact to the finance space, and over
Speaker 1: year plus of conversation, they decided on a suite of
Speaker 1: investment products, including the Calamos Onto te Kumpo Sustainable Equity
Speaker 1: e t F that launched yesterday UM to bring financial
Speaker 1: literacy education and an investment vehicle that's going to be
Speaker 1: available to the masses. Again, it's just a it's a
Speaker 1: someone who's not in the financial world looking to make
Speaker 1: a difference and give back. I don't see the movie
Speaker 1: Rise about him on Disney. It's really good movie. I
Speaker 1: cried half the time. Just seems like a genuine guy,
Speaker 1: any genuine genuine intentions here that said. E s G
Speaker 1: s in not doing well right now. The thing is
Speaker 1: a little in the higher cost side. But you know
Speaker 1: his name, and potentially Calamos has a lot of other
Speaker 1: things going on. They can sort of afford to keep
Speaker 1: this in the market for a while, but could take
Speaker 1: a while because of the environment. Right now, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a tough sell, but he certainly helps and gives
Speaker 1: it attention that other E s G funds don't have.
Speaker 1: UM So interesting and your final interview final interview was
Speaker 1: again we're sticking with basketball here. Roy Williams, who was
Speaker 1: coach of Kansas and North Carolina. I believe he won
Speaker 1: titles with each. He's got a bunch of records. I mean,
Speaker 1: he is like legit Hall of Fame kind of college
Speaker 1: basketball coach. And he was the assistant to um Dean
Speaker 1: Smith at North Carolina and coach Jordan's. So I was like,
Speaker 1: I investco had him on a panel and they had
Speaker 1: a little party afterwards. So I went to the room
Speaker 1: and got to interview Roy Williams. Now, I don't want
Speaker 1: to take up too much of his time, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna ask him etf questions. So I asked him
Speaker 1: how to break a press, because on I coached my
Speaker 1: twelve year olds basketball team, and there's our kids are
Speaker 1: on the younger side and the smaller side, and a
Speaker 1: lot of these teams pressed the whole game, which is
Speaker 1: that's just a weird way to play. I think you
Speaker 1: press when you're down or you need it. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I was just curious what he said about breaking a
Speaker 1: press and if you had any tips on it, and
Speaker 1: then I had to ask him about Jordan's. So here
Speaker 1: you go. Make sure you work on your dribbling and
Speaker 1: pass an he'd catchen being the biggest thing. Try to
Speaker 1: get some baskets before they get the press set up.
Speaker 1: That would be okay and greatest. You were assistant coach
Speaker 1: during the Jordan years, right, What was it? Were you
Speaker 1: stunned at how much he hate how much how much
Speaker 1: he did or could you see it back then? Well,
Speaker 1: we could see he was gonna be a great player,
Speaker 1: but I don't think anyone understood what he was going
Speaker 1: to actually do. He was off the charts. He's still
Speaker 1: a great friend. That okay, that's cute feel, But I
Speaker 1: feel bad for your son's team. We're owen six, you know,
Speaker 1: because I drafted a lot of his friends who were
Speaker 1: eleven and there's thirteen year olds in this league. That said,
Speaker 1: he gets a lot of playing time and his friends
Speaker 1: are on his team, so they have a good time. Um,
Speaker 1: we'll have one more uh sports addition to the podcast.
Speaker 1: Because Eric lives Philadelphia, Philadelphia Eagles are about like water
Speaker 1: to him. Maybe you haven't been watching anything, but Eagles
Speaker 1: made it to the super Bowl, did not go well
Speaker 1: in the final seconds, but Eric lost another bet. I'm
Speaker 1: sensing a theme here. I'm on, I'm on a bad run.
Speaker 1: I had I was on. I was unstoppable for a
Speaker 1: while there, Joel. Yeah, this is just like the bowl market.
Speaker 1: And then this is how they get you, Like in
Speaker 1: the casinos, you win a couple of times and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like you're broke. No. Um. I had
Speaker 1: to do it because Natu Racy is a big chief
Speaker 1: fan los in Kansas City, and I'm I'm really friendly
Speaker 1: with him and I think he's a nice guy, and
Speaker 1: I thought i'd be fun to have a bet, so
Speaker 1: he announced it on his podcast et F Prime and
Speaker 1: the bet was that whoever won the other guy would
Speaker 1: send them a jersey from the NFL shop. So I
Speaker 1: get to send him to Patrick mahomes jersey, which is
Speaker 1: like a hundred fifty bucks. My wife's not loving that,
Speaker 1: but Nate, congratulations. The Chiefs were the better team. They
Speaker 1: won the game. Patrick Mahomes is you know, Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: You're lucky. But we'll be back. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: trillions until next time. You can find us on the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever
Speaker 1: else you like to listen. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Wepper Show, He's at
Speaker 1: Eric Falcuna's. This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnets
Speaker 1: Hendrick Bye