Speaker 1: All media. Uh yeah, do you want to ride with us?
Speaker 1: Ride with us?
Speaker 2: Just a little west coast? All right, we'd days away
Speaker 2: from having a new president. I owe you guys another
Speaker 2: Terrorform episode. If you're just clocking into our show, first
Speaker 2: of all, welcome. This episode is a little different something
Speaker 2: I tried to do this year where in the midst
Speaker 2: of just how intense you know, the world is being
Speaker 2: like full crash out, Which I just want to add
Speaker 2: that if you're going to use the phrase crash out, like,
Speaker 2: understand that it comes from gang culture. When you're going
Speaker 2: to go kill someone at their place, crash out, that's you.
Speaker 2: It's murder. So just no, if you got crashed out,
Speaker 2: it's murder. Just like oh he cooking, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, you know, cooking in a lab.
Speaker 1: That's about making crack. That's its origins.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So this year has been, and I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: been wildly intense for all of us, you know, not
Speaker 2: as intense as being someone who might happen to live
Speaker 2: in North Gaza. So what we tried to do was
Speaker 2: in the spirit of the poetry book and albums I
Speaker 2: put out called Terrorform. Are people who are terraforming in
Speaker 2: a good sense that are building us.
Speaker 1: A livable world.
Speaker 2: For recap, we talked to the hemie Kevin Garcia, who
Speaker 2: has this interesting work among people coming out of a
Speaker 2: pretty rigid white evangelical space who are queer, you know,
Speaker 2: exists in a particular margin having to do around their
Speaker 2: gender identity or lack thereof, and just found that, like
Speaker 2: the traditional church was intenable, but still didn't want to
Speaker 2: abandoned spiritual practices that still rain true to them. So
Speaker 2: it's one of the things that Kevin did. I brought
Speaker 2: in the homie Shamil Idris from Search for Common Ground, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's anyone closer to the action
Speaker 2: in peace building across the world than the Search for
Speaker 2: Common Ground folk. I mean, I'm talking like at the
Speaker 2: table in Me and mart In, Israel and Gaza, like
Speaker 2: on the ground building nations, real peace like crazy styles.
Speaker 1: Who else did we bring in as a terraformer.
Speaker 2: Oh the WOKF podcast, my sister over there doing the
Speaker 2: amazing work. And I also brought in my wife, the
Speaker 2: Chingona ais Tingna, you know working in the Latin specifically
Speaker 2: Latina community about you know.
Speaker 1: Being your full self.
Speaker 2: And these are terraformers, and today we're gonna talk about business,
Speaker 2: all right, So honestly, my real answer to this podcast
Speaker 2: episode we're talking about is the complete destruction of the
Speaker 2: system of capitalism.
Speaker 1: It just I hate it. I really I don't think.
Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day, no matter
Speaker 2: how much I learn and understand of ancient history and
Speaker 2: all that comes with knowing the development, the rise and
Speaker 2: falls of civilizations and what we mean by civilization, you know,
Speaker 2: communal leads, the fits and starts. I highly recommend the
Speaker 2: book That Dawn of Humanity. The point I'm saying is
Speaker 2: governments just don't work.
Speaker 1: Just it don't work. But just putting a dude, dame
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Just the person in charge of large swaths of people
Speaker 2: just don't work. So, I mean, my real dream is
Speaker 2: the end of capitalism as we know it as an institution.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean the end of economics, bartering or selling things.
Speaker 2: It just means the concept of capitalism I think needs
Speaker 2: to die slow, like just burn, baby burn. That being said,
Speaker 2: it's not dead and we exist in it. So you're
Speaker 2: in notion.
Speaker 1: You gotta swim.
Speaker 2: So it's a difficulty to find people that are swimming well,
Speaker 2: one of which, though I've found, is my man Brian
Speaker 2: Pepe at Mirror. Now, as you may know if you've
Speaker 2: ever purchased any of my merch it's created by Mirror.
Speaker 2: It's a company that I can stand by doing their
Speaker 2: absolute best inside and out, certified b Cord carbon neutral.
Speaker 2: You're gonna learn what all those things mean. And I
Speaker 2: just think if you, if you gotta do it, do
Speaker 2: it like these dudes. Brian Pape a friend of mine,
Speaker 2: like truly a friend in a lot of ways, he's
Speaker 2: he's the bulls. I have everything wrong with Western culture.
Speaker 2: He is a cisgendered, upper middle class white male. Now
Speaker 2: you might be upper class. Now Brian bawling out like
Speaker 2: you're you're the thing, you know, saying like you are
Speaker 2: the top of the American food chain, and he runs
Speaker 2: a very successful business. I have the same My head
Speaker 2: hits the same wall as a lot of y'all is like,
Speaker 2: it is not possible. I just don't know in this
Speaker 2: toxic water of late stage capitalism, you know, is it
Speaker 2: even possible to do business good? I mean, I sometimes
Speaker 2: feel weird about the fact that like we have corporate
Speaker 2: overlawyers in iHeart, like it's still still corporation, you know,
Speaker 2: but I.
Speaker 1: Still cash they check.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one thing, So I just want to
Speaker 2: talk to him and show y'all that, like, here's the thing, dude,
Speaker 2: Like it's possible, you know, in in the to the
Speaker 2: extent that you are purposeful aware and are doing your best.
Speaker 2: It is possible, you know. So yeah, it's it's possible.
Speaker 2: So this in in in the in the way that
Speaker 2: he can.
Speaker 1: Let me introduce you to the hommy the terror former
Speaker 1: Brian Pepe. But first it's like this Bullook is like
Speaker 1: this Bullook is like this.
Speaker 2: Well new president. He is assembling his avengers. I shouldn't laugh.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't laugh. He choosing his people for his cabinet members.
Speaker 2: He picked a guy with a with a brain bacteria
Speaker 2: worm and put it in charge of anti virus in bacteria.
Speaker 2: He put an anti vaccer in charge of the medicines.
Speaker 2: But hey, you know he believes in the eating good.
Speaker 2: He might be on the something, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: Like I don't want the world to collapse, so.
Speaker 1: Out ow the kiddedy boy do something right.
Speaker 2: He got Elon musk and for baked Ryn's with cake.
Speaker 2: Basically he hired them to fire people. It's not funny,
Speaker 2: but it kind of is because never mind, I don't
Speaker 2: need it. I don't need it. I'm just saying, this
Speaker 2: is what's going on right now. My man Denzel Washington
Speaker 2: talking about how everybody getting duped. Denzel always got the
Speaker 2: good like Uncle Hot takes when it comes to stuff
Speaker 2: like this, lay telling y'all, like listen, you being brainwashed.
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
Speaker 2: So in a Hollywood Reporter article, he talked about, like
Speaker 2: I don't understand why y'all not hold of y'all. Y'all
Speaker 2: elected officials accountable, These people are not your friends, to
Speaker 2: which I would say amen. And then finally before we
Speaker 2: get into this episode, Flognaw shout out to Tyler the
Speaker 2: creator dropping an amazing, amazing record and a ten year
Speaker 2: long festival. And just as an interesting note, so his
Speaker 2: hairstyle and style address that he's presenting in this new
Speaker 2: album is directly from Africa. Like the way that his
Speaker 2: hair is is done, it's really dope, like it's a
Speaker 2: I believe it's Nigerian hairstyle that he's doing. But I
Speaker 2: went to Flognaw, well, I didn't go.
Speaker 1: I worked it. So my back hurts because I'm old.
Speaker 2: Shout out the homies at Family Industries, where I was
Speaker 2: allowed to put some patches on some.
Speaker 1: Merch and see a lot of the younglings enjoy it.
Speaker 2: It highlights to me was Douchi's set killed it. It
Speaker 2: was dope to see Erica Badu set, and I finally
Speaker 2: saw Andre play the flute, which was its own thing.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously two things can exist in the same space.
Speaker 2: I would much rather have heard him rap, but I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed. I'm surprisingly I.
Speaker 1: Enjoyed his musical set. It was fun.
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's talktor Brian Papey is like this.
Speaker 1: According in podcasts.
Speaker 2: Yes, so the preamble has already happened. You guys who
Speaker 2: will see this video. I've already seen us talk about
Speaker 2: the stuff we wasn't supposed talk about before we was recorded,
Speaker 2: but we were recorded either way.
Speaker 1: Brian pape mirror, drinkware, cups, cuffs, He's make cups, fry.
Speaker 1: What's up, Brian, what's up?
Speaker 3: Prop? It's gonna be with you man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm glad to do this. Man, I've been
Speaker 2: meaning to do it for years.
Speaker 1: We're like real.
Speaker 2: Friends, you know, Like Brian is the hommie. I am,
Speaker 2: you know, not only a client. I'm also a member,
Speaker 2: like you know, not only as Like am I a
Speaker 2: fan of their product, I'm a fan of him. I'm
Speaker 2: a fan of his family. I like I'm a brand ambassador,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Like, So, like, that's how
Speaker 2: much for me personally, I believe in what Mirror is
Speaker 2: doing that I'll.
Speaker 1: Willing to put my reputation on the line.
Speaker 2: To the extent that I know, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's any Diddy parties happening over there.
Speaker 1: If it is, you ain't show me. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 3: None of that happened over here? Problem, none of that.
Speaker 1: I was Like, I know your wife, I know your children.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. I met your sister. I
Speaker 2: feel like I was to the extent that I know,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, this day and age is kind of
Speaker 3: like that is all I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but an absolute stand up guy.
Speaker 2: So ultimately, what I want to get to at the
Speaker 2: end of this part is like, is it even possible
Speaker 2: to do like good business, to do capitalism in a
Speaker 2: not exploitative way?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: So That's that's why I kind of want to get
Speaker 2: to here. But first of all, hey, you remember how
Speaker 2: we met?
Speaker 3: Oh man, do I ever? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Calama Zoom Michigan. So funny Man, that was. You know,
Speaker 4: it's funny. I think I've told you this, but I'll
Speaker 4: tell it against your listeners. Oh yeah, Prop and I
Speaker 4: were we were supposed to speak at what was the
Speaker 4: Catalyst conference or.
Speaker 1: Something and something like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I had no idea. I was like, all right, cool, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'll get paid to show up.
Speaker 1: Cool to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah sounds good.
Speaker 4: And I needed to make money at that point, so
Speaker 4: I mean, I still need to make money. But that
Speaker 4: was like I was like.
Speaker 3: I really I will travel. Yeah, yeah, I would get
Speaker 3: paid to speak for thirty minutes. Yes, yes.
Speaker 4: And my sister texted me and she was like, oh
Speaker 4: my gosh, you're at the same conference as PROP. And
Speaker 4: I was like who. It's like, I have no idea.
Speaker 4: She's a super fan. She's like, you don't know propaganda.
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm sorry, I'm just I've been heads
Speaker 4: down the last six years and a hole trying to
Speaker 4: make cups.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And anyway, we were like the youngest one.
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody else was yeah, speaker by like a
Speaker 2: decade totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you like looked at each other and what's up?
Speaker 3: What's that? What's up? Yeah? And I had a mad
Speaker 3: Caps was that mad Cap?
Speaker 1: I think you had a mad Cap sweater on?
Speaker 2: And I had already went and got mad Cap because
Speaker 2: I knew we were near where they have it, so
Speaker 2: I'd already got a bag and me arrest in peace.
Speaker 2: DJ Effecto was like, all right, this is what we're
Speaker 2: gonna do. We're gonna start making coffee blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And then I think we ran into each other again
Speaker 2: backstage and was like I believe I was doing an
Speaker 2: narrow press.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and drink at the bar though with DJ Effecto.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, And then I.
Speaker 3: Awkwardly asked for a selfie so my sister would think
Speaker 3: I was cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 4: We got in the elevators, like, hey man, my sister
Speaker 4: she doesn't think what I'm doing is very cool.
Speaker 2: She just now started thinking what I do is cool
Speaker 2: again now that you're in Arawhine.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: It was like her friends are like, your brother sells
Speaker 3: a Patago and that's so cool.
Speaker 4: She's like, I guess that is kind of cool. She
Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, you got a photo with
Speaker 4: problem like that.
Speaker 3: We're gonna be.
Speaker 1: Friends now we made it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, as Brian is alluded to, like, so first of all,
Speaker 2: you know, tell what is mere?
Speaker 4: So I wanted to start back, what is trained all
Speaker 4: the way at mer? Yeah, you know, we it's funny.
Speaker 4: We I wasn't like, I don't know, it's just like concept.
Speaker 4: It's it's just like theoretical. But at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, we sell cups. But now we're into you know,
Speaker 4: soft goes like apparel and hats and beanies and whatnot.
Speaker 4: But the general ideas that we sell stainless steel drink ware.
Speaker 4: And it's pretty like what's that, mama?
Speaker 3: How are you? Yeah? Uh stanles still drinkwaar back.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, anyway at home studios, man, it's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, home studios, guys. It's real, real deal, both sides,
Speaker 2: both sides, all right. Yeah, we sell we sell stanless
Speaker 2: stel drinkwaar and it's I mean, it's very on trend
Speaker 2: these days, but in two thousand and nine it was
Speaker 2: like very not on trend. But it's you know that
Speaker 2: it's well, I say, it's more theoretical. The idea that
Speaker 2: Back and I had was we wanted to start a
Speaker 2: business together, but we wanted to do it a different way.
Speaker 3: We wanted it to be philanthropic from day one.
Speaker 4: So it was like we observed the capitalism was kind
Speaker 4: of you do something, you build it up your mass wealth,
Speaker 4: and then you sell it or you know, you give
Speaker 4: back later in life when you're like sixty or seventy, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: And our concept was like, we want to give back
Speaker 4: through every single transaction. So from day one, even though
Speaker 4: when we were profitable, we were still contributing to lots
Speaker 4: of different projects all over the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I just listened to.
Speaker 2: Like the ted talks from the the former owners and
Speaker 2: CEOs of Or of Patagonia and North Face that like
Speaker 2: got together, hooked up and then moved to Chile and
Speaker 2: just started buying land and make it preserved, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean to your point, So it's like, all right,
Speaker 2: we've amassed this insane amount of wealth at the end
Speaker 2: of our work, so now we're just gonna buy land
Speaker 2: to preserve it, you know. And how in your like
Speaker 2: in all of our brains, anybody, if you listen to
Speaker 2: my show where You're just like, that's just kind of.
Speaker 5: Feels I just want to make money. Yeah, it kind
Speaker 5: of feels gross, you know. But after being around you
Speaker 5: and kind of like meeting the pattern, like now that
Speaker 5: I know people at Patagonia and like really their vision
Speaker 5: is like what can we do to preserve the planet
Speaker 5: And if the plant, if what makes the world go
Speaker 5: around is money, then like we will buy it, and
Speaker 5: we will will buy it and do nothing, Like we
Speaker 5: are going to turn this into a national park and
Speaker 5: y'all can make the money off it, you know what
Speaker 5: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yeah, you could camp here, you do.
Speaker 2: Like, like there's this there is this perception that like
Speaker 2: if you buy land to sit on it to preserve
Speaker 2: it, it stops making money. I'm like, well, have you been
Speaker 2: to Yellowstone? Like you pay to get in, like Joshua Tree,
Speaker 2: like you pay. You know what I'm saying, Like these
Speaker 2: are they can be money making endeavors. But he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I bought it so that you won't tear
Speaker 2: it down. Like but like you said, that's like at
Speaker 2: the end of their careers, you were you came in
Speaker 2: with a code that was like even before we're making money.
Speaker 1: We're already establishing a practice.
Speaker 2: Of giving you know, in in in as best as
Speaker 2: you can, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think Oh no, I was just gonna say.
Speaker 4: I think partially was because if you don't start, you
Speaker 4: might never start, you know, because it's so hard. I
Speaker 4: mean literally, the entrepreneur journey is so difficult. And I
Speaker 4: kind of knew that from some other stuff that I'd
Speaker 4: done before that. But if we didn't start from day
Speaker 4: one and just this is what we do, this is
Speaker 4: what we do, this is what we do, it would
Speaker 4: be so easy to justify I'm going to do it
Speaker 4: next year, I'm going to do it when I get
Speaker 4: to this level, or I'm going to do it when
Speaker 4: I get to that level. Because but I've seen people
Speaker 4: get to those levels and then they're like, well maybe
Speaker 4: when I sell the company or maybe you know, maybe tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Right, And so we just didn't want to do that
Speaker 3: we want to do from day one.
Speaker 2: Do you do you think that that that made the
Speaker 2: ride a lot longer?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: For sure, right the ride. The ride has been a
Speaker 4: lot longer for variety reasons. I think partially because we
Speaker 4: have focused on generosity, for sure, But another element is
Speaker 4: that like we don't have any private equity or venture
Speaker 4: capital on our cap table, and so what the I
Speaker 4: mean essentially, what that means is like private equity wasn't
Speaker 4: really a thing back in like the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of started arising the nineties and two thousands,
Speaker 4: and people who aren't in business might not ever see
Speaker 4: it or like understand what it actually is. But it's
Speaker 4: like optimizing business to to what I would say is
Speaker 4: an unhealthy level because it's it's not long term minded,
Speaker 4: it's short term minded. It's like, how can I buy
Speaker 4: a bunch of businesses, optimize them on the back end,
Speaker 4: and then build this company and then flip it and
Speaker 4: sell it in five years. And usually what that means
Speaker 4: is like cutting costs, degrading benefits, It's a whole host
Speaker 4: of things, and so you can get to a number faster,
Speaker 4: so I send the Juramys longer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think it's more durable, to be honest.
Speaker 2: So it's almost like, I mean, the way you describe
Speaker 2: it is like, yeah, it's like that's like drug dealing
Speaker 2: or like flipping houses where you're like just get in,
Speaker 2: buy them up, cut the fat as quick, and usually
Speaker 2: what the fat is is humans? Right, you know, say
Speaker 2: it like it's the exploitative way that you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. But you, like you said, but you get
Speaker 2: a bunch of them, get it to the thing, flip it,
Speaker 2: and then you're like, oh good, And then, like you said,
Speaker 2: you could patch yourself on the back and be like.
Speaker 1: Well now I'm gonna do good you know what I
Speaker 1: mean later on?
Speaker 2: But yeah, but see that's the part where I'm just
Speaker 2: like you, like you said, I'm like, it just feels
Speaker 2: exploitative in its in its DNA.
Speaker 1: But if you were like.
Speaker 2: Because of the top, because it is right, yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: well it feels like it because it is. So I
Speaker 2: want you out to I want you aut to to
Speaker 2: catch this that you were like you took no venture capital.
Speaker 2: You were like, yeah, we're just gonna out the mud.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it's you know boostrapping is is?
Speaker 3: Is it? For sure? Challenging? You know, but let's be real,
Speaker 3: like it wasn't that.
Speaker 4: Difficult for me to hit up one hundred people in
Speaker 4: Seattle and ask them to and invest because like the
Speaker 4: reality like, so, so I don't people to mishear me.
Speaker 4: It's not like Beck and I one hundred percent did
Speaker 4: this on one hundred percent of the company. Yeah, we
Speaker 4: brought on friends and family in twenty sixteen because we
Speaker 4: were growing so fast. Yeah, that it was either go
Speaker 4: to private equity and sell my soul or go to
Speaker 4: a handful of f my friend that says, hey, do
Speaker 4: you want to invest twenty five k hunter k whatever
Speaker 4: it is that you can There's no guarantees, by the way,
Speaker 4: you know, So it's kind of there was a lot
Speaker 4: of those, a lot of l's, a lot of like, no,
Speaker 4: what's your actual strategy? I don't have one. What do
Speaker 4: you mean you I have an actual strategy. Everybody is
Speaker 4: an extra strategy. We just want to build a great
Speaker 4: business and hopefully return capital at some point. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: which is kind of crazy, to be honest, because most people,
Speaker 4: most investors, are like, am I gonna get my money
Speaker 4: back in five years, ten years, fifteen years?
Speaker 3: And I said, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Gee whoa.
Speaker 2: That's the stuff that nobody sees. But the stuff that
Speaker 2: people do see is on it. I'm holding this cup, y'all. Look,
Speaker 2: you've had my merch You've seen this logo, you've seen
Speaker 2: this cup in the inside and what we always brag
Speaker 2: about is like keeps the hot hot and the cold cold. Right,
Speaker 2: It's durable. I travel with it. The poor Gami that
Speaker 2: everybody get, our bottles, the tell Better Story hoodies, like
Speaker 2: all of it is from here, but so from the
Speaker 2: front end, like tell me about your supply chain, the
Speaker 2: stainless steel, the reclaim project, like all of those things
Speaker 2: that have to do it, like the front facing stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So you know, we try to be as transparent as
Speaker 4: as we can. And part of it is just you know,
Speaker 4: when back when I started it, we didn't want people
Speaker 4: to buy the product out of guilt or because we
Speaker 4: were doing good. Now listen, a lot of people do
Speaker 4: buy it because we do good, and that's fine, But
Speaker 4: we wanted to build the best possible products. My background
Speaker 4: is product design and sourcing and marketing, so I want
Speaker 4: to make the best possible product because I you know,
Speaker 4: looking back, it's like I saw Tom's, yeah, and people
Speaker 4: were buying Toms because they were cool.
Speaker 3: But they lasted a couple of weeks, like they were
Speaker 3: not well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's questions I don't know about, like were
Speaker 2: the others you getting there and were you actually helping
Speaker 2: in Africa. You know what I'm saying, like, because I
Speaker 2: think a lot of times people that like, you know,
Speaker 2: give model also like raise his eyebrows because it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, you know, you build it well in this
Speaker 2: village in Africa. Oh yay, we did it, and then
Speaker 2: you just caused the civil war now because now they're
Speaker 2: fighting over water rights because you ain't got all work.
Speaker 2: But you felt great because but but you gave, we
Speaker 2: gave to build a well, it's like, nah, did you
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? Or did you make it worse?
Speaker 1: You feel me? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I mean, you know, I think early on,
Speaker 4: we really you know, because of Tom's and you know,
Speaker 4: there was this like people wanted this precision of like
Speaker 4: if I buy this, what happens? And so we really
Speaker 4: tried for the first few years to like connect the dots.
Speaker 4: If we buy this bottle that helps give somebody clean
Speaker 4: water for about a year and their averages right yeah.
Speaker 3: And it worked for the time.
Speaker 4: But you know what we really tried to focus on
Speaker 4: is moving from kind of what the terminology is, like
Speaker 4: power based philanthropy to relationship based filanthropy. So power base
Speaker 4: is like, hey, I hold the power because I'm right
Speaker 4: in the check. Yeah, here, nonprofit, here's one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: I need you to give this only to the people
Speaker 4: in the field or the project or whatever else I'm
Speaker 4: gonna tell you. And then in return, I want photos,
Speaker 4: I want this, I want that.
Speaker 3: Right. So that's kind of the old way.
Speaker 4: And we've had a lot of you know, we've listened
Speaker 4: to a lot of our nonprofit partner and we just said, actually,
Speaker 4: this is how you innovate. I think we've just said, hey,
Speaker 4: what's working and what's not working? How can we help
Speaker 4: you better? And they said, you know, it would be
Speaker 4: really great an unrestricted grant, which in the nonprofit world
Speaker 4: is kind of crazy because you know, all the people
Speaker 4: who are looking for grants from all the foundations of
Speaker 4: all this stuff, usually there's strings attached.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you do this, you can do this,
Speaker 3: but you can't do that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then so we want to unrestrict it. And said, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: well let's think about that. What's what's the downside of that?
Speaker 4: And for us, there wasn't really one other than like,
Speaker 4: we're just gonna tell stories about the nonprofit and the
Speaker 4: general work that they do versus like it went to
Speaker 4: this place on this place in the place, right. So
Speaker 4: for us, we've kind of shifted to that relationship where it's, uh,
Speaker 4: we're asking them, how can we help you in a
Speaker 4: way that's like, Hey, we're just gonna build, We're gonna
Speaker 4: we're gonna audit for sure before you check. We're gonna
Speaker 4: make sure that you're not taking like one hundred percent
Speaker 4: of this and just like put in your pockets, right,
Speaker 4: like what percentages actually go into the projects? Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: Like, it's like before I even approach, before you even
Speaker 2: approach him, you've already done your homework, Like I believe
Speaker 2: that you're you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm willing to give you this money.
Speaker 2: So if I already trust you, why would I tell
Speaker 2: you what to do with your money? You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like, you've already shown me that totally you're
Speaker 2: who you say you are, which is why I'm down
Speaker 2: to hell.
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's almost like if you took that same
Speaker 4: model of like power based pilanthropy and you and you
Speaker 4: put into like power based private equity, it wouldn't work
Speaker 4: or even like investing right, Like, yeah, if I want
Speaker 4: to have to an investor and said hey, I need
Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars, and somebody who was passionate about
Speaker 4: operations was like, great, I'm gonna invest one hundred thousand
Speaker 4: dollars in business, Brian, But you can only spend that
Speaker 4: on supply chain. I'm like, hey, I gotta go to
Speaker 4: a trade shuttle, like it's the sales. They like, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 4: you can only use it for this Like that's insane, right,
Speaker 4: And yet we're expecting these nonprofits to operate in a
Speaker 4: completely different model, and so I think I'm a huge
Speaker 4: advocate for relationship under strictter grants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let them, let them do it.
Speaker 3: Totally, so good, totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So back to the product. So this stainless steel, Yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Stainless steel. At day, stainless steel ninety percent recycled.
Speaker 4: We might get to one hundred percent someday, but sometimes
Speaker 4: you got to mix in a little bit of version
Speaker 4: with the with the recycled, make it nice and nice
Speaker 4: and durable. Yeah, but that's a that's been a you know,
Speaker 4: a transition as well over the last couple of years
Speaker 4: of trying to get all of our products into recycled
Speaker 4: material if it's the same or better quality. And the
Speaker 4: reality is was recycled stainless. There's no different from a
Speaker 4: quality perspective. Yeah, because it goes into a massive smelter
Speaker 4: and just like comes out the other side in a tube.
Speaker 4: But it reduces emissions dramatically on the front end. So yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a huge change. All the plastics that we work
Speaker 4: with are mostly recycled plastics. Like the lids on the
Speaker 4: bottom of most of our products, there's a you know,
Speaker 4: there's a coat on the bottom.
Speaker 3: You are sure that give code.
Speaker 4: And again inside of transparency, we want people to know
Speaker 4: where are we sourcing from, where we who we donate
Speaker 4: money to. Yeah, it's an invitation, I'd say to come
Speaker 4: and and and you know peak on the elis to speak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and then there's the reclaim program to where
Speaker 2: like right, if you're done with the cup, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well recycle for you. You can recycle or we
Speaker 3: can do for you.
Speaker 4: And you know, we really want to take ownership in
Speaker 4: the full journey of the product life cycle. Yeah, which
Speaker 4: is kind of crazy, but I don't think it's gonna
Speaker 4: be that crazy. And years to come and I'll give you.
Speaker 4: An example, Google stops supporting Nest security camera or security
Speaker 4: you know on the door homep together home stuff, right,
Speaker 4: just stop supporting so it doesn't work. So now I
Speaker 4: have this, like all these lithium OMN batteries, all these
Speaker 4: gadgets from Google, and they're just like sorry, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: what do you want to do this? So like, oh,
Speaker 4: take it to a local electronics recycler and maybe there's
Speaker 4: one in your town, but maybe not. It's like I
Speaker 4: should be able to just send it back to Google
Speaker 4: and be like you made this, you deal with it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, like it really put a bad taste in
Speaker 4: my mouth. And I don't think we're quite there yet.
Speaker 4: People are just throwing clothes in the trash and whatnot.
Speaker 4: But I'd love to see more companies, you know, kind
Speaker 4: of take responsibility for the full.
Speaker 3: Product life cycle. Yeh's bringing it back or recycling in it.
Speaker 4: You know, if we have misprints or there's some damage,
Speaker 4: we'll try to fix it.
Speaker 3: We'll send new gaskets, new lids, like we want this
Speaker 3: to remain.
Speaker 2: And it's like as long as possible is good, because
Speaker 2: it's like you're not just like, well you bought it,
Speaker 2: like it's yours now, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 2: we did our part.
Speaker 1: You're like, well, no, like that's not it.
Speaker 2: Like because when you get into y'all, which we'll we'll
Speaker 2: get into later, like the b Core, the you know,
Speaker 2: the one hundred percent carbon neutral, like all the stuff
Speaker 2: that like the world has said, we looked under the hood,
Speaker 2: they're doing it.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying to me, Like that is
Speaker 1: a part of it.
Speaker 2: That's us you going back and being like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: pick even if you took it, I'm still gonna pick
Speaker 2: up trash here.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You can't just leave the park and be like, well
Speaker 2: we did our part, you just cause you guys through
Speaker 2: your trash all over the floors and I was like, no, like,
Speaker 2: this is our park here, you can bring your trash
Speaker 2: to us.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I think that that's that's
Speaker 1: beautiful and.
Speaker 2: It's just at the end of the day, like it's
Speaker 2: a really really really good product, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And and just fun now your treatment of your employees now,
Speaker 2: I know now, okay, listen, I am aware that when
Speaker 2: I come into y'all space, I am aware.
Speaker 1: Of the pier Dynamic. I am one of the front.
Speaker 2: Facing ambassadors, and the owner is bringing his friend in,
Speaker 2: so everybody, of course is going to be as well
Speaker 2: behaved as possible, you know, I for real, But I
Speaker 2: will say this in my experience, when there is problems,
Speaker 2: someone dms me, Like if I'm at a place, if
Speaker 2: I'm at an organization, I'm at a thing. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm messing with somebody publicly. I like, whether it's a
Speaker 2: coffee industry, music industry, or whatever it is. Somebody goes
Speaker 2: a prop I know what you stand for, and like,
Speaker 2: I don't know about them fools. Here's my experience. I
Speaker 2: don't want to be a hater, but like here's what
Speaker 2: somebody always gets to me, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: And then it's on me to be like, okay, let
Speaker 2: me hold that or back off a little bit, like
Speaker 2: maybe not be so one hundred percent all in on
Speaker 2: somebody and be like all right, well, yeah, pull back
Speaker 2: a little bit. And I've had to in past, had
Speaker 2: to be like pull back a little bit and just
Speaker 2: you know, hey.
Speaker 1: Hey, they're just merch. They're just merch.
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know what I'm saying, but like
Speaker 2: I haven't had to date, I haven't had that experience.
Speaker 2: So that is something to be said about your hiring
Speaker 2: practices and your your pay scales and all those all
Speaker 2: those good stuff.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about.
Speaker 2: Like how those practices of like you said, like full transparency,
Speaker 2: full justice, treating your your staff well, because and you
Speaker 2: don't really have a lot.
Speaker 1: Of turnover, like what I've noticed, you know what I'm.
Speaker 4: Saying, Like, yeah, and we publish all that data on
Speaker 4: our annual impact report.
Speaker 1: See it's all published.
Speaker 3: You can see our turnover.
Speaker 4: You can see our you know, gender breakdown, you can
Speaker 4: see you kind of see our leadership breakdown. And you know,
Speaker 4: I think it starts with again that idea of just
Speaker 4: we want to do we want to build a responsible business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, the reality.
Speaker 4: Is we have had a lot of growth over the years,
Speaker 4: which is afford us the opportunity to invest in our people.
Speaker 4: So I guess there's one sense we don't have to
Speaker 4: Cause the early days, it's like I didn't have health
Speaker 4: care for like the first four years of YR. You know,
Speaker 4: like yeah, but now we can offer healthcare, and we
Speaker 4: do offer healthcare, and we offer health care to our
Speaker 4: employees their dependents and their children. So like, we cover
Speaker 4: one hundred percent of the health care costs for everybody
Speaker 4: inside the family. The only people who are doing that
Speaker 4: is like tech companies maybe yeah, because their margins are
Speaker 4: insane and so people are like, well, why do you
Speaker 4: choose to do that? And it's like it would feel
Speaker 4: disingenuous like that, and I would not feel good about
Speaker 4: ourselves if we paid for our one hundred percent, but
Speaker 4: not for everybody else, right, yeah, And so it's about
Speaker 4: business at the end of the day, is about trade offs.
Speaker 4: And so for us, we're willing to trade up, so
Speaker 4: to speak, and treat what we think our employees really well.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, I will say sometimes when we hire younger employees
Speaker 4: who haven't had other experiences to other companies, Yeah, oh
Speaker 4: this it's not that, it's not fair, it's not you know,
Speaker 4: it's not enough. And then either they leave or we
Speaker 4: ask them to leave, and they're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: I had no idea, how good I had it?
Speaker 3: Word yeah, yeah, yeah, you know things like that. It's
Speaker 3: you know, parental leave.
Speaker 4: You know, we're we have a young company, so a
Speaker 4: lot of people are having babies and you know, back
Speaker 4: and I We love it. We love letting people take
Speaker 4: four or six months off when they have their kid.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: We didn't have that opportunity with our first two, but
Speaker 4: on the on the last one we did, and so it's, yeah,
Speaker 4: we just feel we just feel like it's.
Speaker 3: A huge privilege to let our our team.
Speaker 4: You know, you know Jenny on our team, my assistant,
Speaker 4: you know, she's on materorney leave until January, you know,
Speaker 4: and I miss her deeply, but it's like I kind
Speaker 4: of have.
Speaker 3: To step up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, yeah, so we again it's and I
Speaker 4: think it's because we're long term minded.
Speaker 3: You know, we're not thinking about the results.
Speaker 4: I mean, we look at the results quarterly obviously, daily, weekly, monthly,
Speaker 4: the whole stuff. But we're looking at like what can
Speaker 4: we build in ten or twenty years. And I think
Speaker 4: when you look at that time horizon, it affords you
Speaker 4: the opportunity hopefully, if you run your business responsibly, you
Speaker 4: can do those sorts of things. And it's also like
Speaker 4: it's double edged sword, meaning like if we're able to
Speaker 4: provide these great benefits for our team, we also have
Speaker 4: to perform. So there's a there's this bit of like
Speaker 4: give and take it doesn't mean just everybody gets all
Speaker 4: these things and we can just hang out and have
Speaker 4: you know, fun.
Speaker 3: We'd like to have fun, but it's also like we
Speaker 3: have to perform at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely. And I've noticed that around y'all too.
Speaker 2: You expect the staff to be like, Okay, we're giving
Speaker 2: to you lavishly. We are trying to be a better company.
Speaker 2: So fam you got to bring home some bacon, like
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know where you think this healthcare coming from. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying that you bring it home to bacon.
Speaker 1: You feel me. And it seems as though people are
Speaker 1: like super motivated.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I've even recruited for you. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like you've been like, hey go get this fool. I'll
Speaker 2: put it in a good word, but like you know,
Speaker 2: because it's I've just like I said, I've just.
Speaker 1: Seen that, like it just ends up being a good look.
Speaker 2: So this would not be genuine if it wasn't if
Speaker 2: I didn't bring.
Speaker 1: Up some l's like.
Speaker 2: Where you guys, where have you guys like fucked up royally?
Speaker 2: You know, like some real l's where you were just like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: we got take that in a chance it was all wrong.
Speaker 4: Here, Oh man, pick a pick a category, prop like right,
Speaker 4: like supply chain product hr Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember the story about about one high.
Speaker 2: We ain't gonna get into it, but about higher that
Speaker 2: you were just like, oh, I have to fire him now.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: There's only one person that I fired in my entire life,
Speaker 4: and that was that was one of them, and it
Speaker 4: was for great reasons.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll keep that offline.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4: Even you know, even getting into like, you know, to
Speaker 4: be honest, real talk, like we had layoffs two years
Speaker 4: ago because were on this COVID rocket ship and it
Speaker 4: and it came down faster than we thought. We had
Speaker 4: to make some changes and yeah, you know we legally
Speaker 4: we could have said, hey, your job's gone.
Speaker 3: Sorry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but we get people as much runway as we could,
Speaker 4: you know, so months of salary, you know, healthcare where
Speaker 4: we can, because I think you're always going to have
Speaker 4: these ups and downs with business, and it's how you
Speaker 4: treat people through those ups and downs that are really
Speaker 4: going to make a difference for yourself. And yeah, so
Speaker 4: you know, I think looking back it's like, you know,
Speaker 4: I want to I want to be I want to
Speaker 4: be proud of the decisions we made, even even in
Speaker 4: tough times, you know, even when it's not working out,
Speaker 4: when it's like, hey, we don't need this role anymore.
Speaker 4: We want to help you. We'll help you find another job.
Speaker 4: Like being more candid I think is really really important
Speaker 4: in the process. But I mean else, gosh, how many
Speaker 4: so many l's like manufacturing ls I mean one of
Speaker 4: the first uh.
Speaker 3: Trying to think of which which ship of this was
Speaker 3: we had, Oh, this is way bad.
Speaker 4: It is like twenty fourteen, we were doing this project
Speaker 4: for ARII and I had I mean I was probably
Speaker 4: twenty eight, you know, so ari I was like not
Speaker 4: taking me seriously, and I had, like I brought in
Speaker 4: an advisor who was much older than me, just to
Speaker 4: make it upear that we were like bigger than we were,
Speaker 4: you know. Yeah, And we did this product for ARII
Speaker 4: and they wanted the bottom to have this crisp, clean,
Speaker 4: stainless kind of lower half, lower third and the fact
Speaker 4: we royally watched it like it was out sourced twice,
Speaker 4: so we don't even know what was made day and
Speaker 4: it came in with like ninety percent rejection on the QC.
Speaker 4: Like at first we're like, oh, there's a couple and
Speaker 4: then we then we like went to the DC and
Speaker 4: we opened up all of them and.
Speaker 3: It was like a like an absolute disaster.
Speaker 4: And I'm trying to think, I mean, we just we
Speaker 4: we remade the product air fredded it in and you know,
Speaker 4: we always want to take care of the customer. It
Speaker 4: sounds this sounds really obvious, m hm, But there is
Speaker 4: a strategic advantage in any business by taking care of
Speaker 4: the customer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're just like, hey, guys, this batch was trash, Yes,
Speaker 2: and I am so sorry, We're going to remake it totally.
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
Speaker 4: And it's scary in the moment to be to be like,
Speaker 4: I gotta tell his customer we messed up. But man,
Speaker 4: being honest with your customers and taking care of it
Speaker 4: and doing the right thing for the most part, always
Speaker 4: pays off. And you shouldn't do it because it pays off.
Speaker 4: You should do it because it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 4: But I'm constantly blown away by how many times our
Speaker 4: competitors mess up and they're like, well, it's kind of
Speaker 4: on you.
Speaker 3: The customer and they're.
Speaker 2: Like, wait, what, Yeah, well you wanted it by this date,
Speaker 2: so here it is. Yeah, exactly, no, I wanted what
Speaker 2: I ordered by this date.
Speaker 4: Totally, totally, totally what a there's like, man, there's so many,
Speaker 4: so many else. One time my or one of our
Speaker 4: suppliers email got hacked and they yeah, like I mean,
Speaker 4: it's like a long story of like how they did this,
Speaker 4: but it was like they just changed the name on
Speaker 4: their email address and somehow made a fake.
Speaker 3: It was not like my email address at mere dot com.
Speaker 4: It was like a fake mirror bottles one two three
Speaker 4: at dot com, the type of thing. And they went
Speaker 4: back and forth. Anyway, the whole thing long is very short,
Speaker 4: will be like I basically wired. I think I wired
Speaker 4: like ten or twenty grand to like a fraudulent account,
Speaker 4: you know. But what's crazy is the hackers kept sending
Speaker 4: messages back and forth after they already hustled the money.
Speaker 2: Like you guys, you got it, guys, you got it,
Speaker 2: you did it. We're like we know you, we know
Speaker 2: your hackers. Yeah, totally, like you already got me, guys,
Speaker 2: you already got me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think that was like twenty fourteen. I mean, it
Speaker 4: was like at the worst possible time too, Like I
Speaker 4: clearly needed the ten or twenty grand and I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: we're just out of that money.
Speaker 1: Like here we are.
Speaker 3: This is a disaster, you know.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think in general, I've always moved
Speaker 4: really fast, like I have an idea and I'm like,
Speaker 4: let's go, right, And I think looking back sometimes I'm like,
Speaker 4: you know, it would have been proven to just kind
Speaker 4: of pump the brakes, get some buy in versus just
Speaker 4: we're gonna go, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Word, so certified B Corp.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're certified B one percent for the planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does what does any of that mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're certified.
Speaker 4: Ever, I mean, they are all a bunch of you know,
Speaker 4: it's so funny we get bills for you know, because
Speaker 4: you have to pay for these certifications, right, Okay, well
Speaker 4: you pay to like test and then if you achieve
Speaker 4: the tests, you get to show that mark. Right, And
Speaker 4: so it's now the bills are substantial and I'm like,
Speaker 4: my gosh, these certification do these matter?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think the reality is that it's it's again,
Speaker 4: it's another piece of transparency where it's not just us
Speaker 4: saying that we're doing good. It's other nonprofits kind of
Speaker 4: checking over the hood, auditing, asking your employees questions, verifying
Speaker 4: if everything we say we're doing is true and accurate,
Speaker 4: and you know it matters.
Speaker 3: There's communities around a B corp. You know, patagoan news
Speaker 3: a B corp.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's you know, climate neutral certification one percent of
Speaker 4: the plan. So anyway, B corp is essentially like, are
Speaker 4: you doing are you operating your business for the benefit
Speaker 4: of the community of your stakeholders?
Speaker 3: Not just your shareholders, but your stakeholders.
Speaker 4: So the distinction of being the shareholder someone who owns
Speaker 4: equity units in your company, a stakeholder would be an employee,
Speaker 4: community member, supply chain.
Speaker 3: All those sorts of things make up your B CORP score.
Speaker 3: It's really hard.
Speaker 4: It's a it's an insane assessment. It takes so long
Speaker 4: to fill out, so it's it's brutal, but it's the
Speaker 4: real deal. And so there's that one Climate neutral just
Speaker 4: changed their name to to Change Climate and the new
Speaker 4: it's Europe has made laws that you can't claim carbon
Speaker 4: neutrality on product specific eyeps.
Speaker 3: So anyway, it's long story. It's a good thing, but
Speaker 3: we're we're our goal.
Speaker 4: Is to offset any of our scope through emissions, so
Speaker 4: transportation from the factory, the factory at the emission emissions,
Speaker 4: you know, the way that we view this. It's funny
Speaker 4: because it's interesting how climate has gotten.
Speaker 2: Like political in my opinion, in your opinion, Okay, it is.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, yeah it is.
Speaker 4: But the reason I think it's kind of funny is
Speaker 4: because it's like, imagine, let's say, let's say we're doing
Speaker 4: this because the climate is warming. On the other side
Speaker 4: of the argument, right, yeah, Well, what happens if it
Speaker 4: if it goes back or it changes again, Are we
Speaker 4: just going to go back to the old ways of
Speaker 4: just few like yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean sometimes people
Speaker 4: positions are like, we have to do this to save
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's say we did it, are we going to
Speaker 3: go backward?
Speaker 1: Like no, of course not, right, of course not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then on the other side, you're like, you know,
Speaker 4: what'd be a great idea. Let's say we're wrong. Let's
Speaker 4: say that actually we didn't contribute to it's just natural cycles.
Speaker 4: I still think it's a great idea to conserve resources.
Speaker 1: Still pretty dope, Still kind of a good thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're you know what I mean, Like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: so I think you know from my from my seat,
Speaker 4: it's like it seemed to me it seems like a
Speaker 4: really great idea to use ninety percent recycled steel because
Speaker 4: the incremental cost is not that much to do something
Speaker 4: that is dramatically more impactful for the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, period, And it's just sitting there, it just makes
Speaker 2: so much sense.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There's there's a part of me that's like the way
Speaker 2: that this is why I say, to the extent that
Speaker 2: you can do this well, like the reality of African
Speaker 2: cobalt minds, you know, nickel and stuff like that, that
Speaker 2: like it is, I don't you can't exist in a
Speaker 2: modern world without having some sort of child labor blood
Speaker 2: on your hands. You're like, I just that's why it's
Speaker 2: just covered up. It's covered up in a new you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Like, you know, there's obviously greenwashing
Speaker 2: is a thing, you know what I'm saying, Like all
Speaker 2: these things are like our realities, you know. But like
Speaker 2: you said, to the extent that I can that I
Speaker 2: could say, okay, why I've washed genuinely my hands up
Speaker 2: to ninety percent you know what I mean, now, I
Speaker 2: don't know the steel that is recite. I don't know
Speaker 2: how that got out of the ground, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like that might have been slave labor too.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 2: I'm on the planet. I think about that all the time.
Speaker 2: We always say a phrase on the show you in
Speaker 2: the ocean, you might as well swim like I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't help it, Like I'm all, I'm in the ocean.
Speaker 1: You know. We sell ads. I am on iHeart podcast network.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's a multilateral corporation. Guys like I,
Speaker 2: I pay a mortgage to a mortgage company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I don't know, man.
Speaker 3: But I think it's about progress, you know.
Speaker 4: And I think people be like, oh, yes, you know,
Speaker 4: it's progress over perfection, blah blah blah. I just I
Speaker 4: think there's so much room to go on conscious capitalism
Speaker 4: or whatever you want.
Speaker 3: To call it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think this is I truly believe that
Speaker 4: capitalism right now is the best so far U huh,
Speaker 4: Meaning like there's probably there's the possibility of what it
Speaker 4: could be is even greater than what is today. I
Speaker 4: mean it's already like we've already changed our business model
Speaker 4: in ways that we didn't know fifteen years ago. And
Speaker 4: we started right, and so like yeah, I just look
Speaker 4: at history and I go, you know, I mean, dying
Speaker 4: from like tetanus sounds horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, diyssanentary because your water is dirty. I don't want
Speaker 2: to do to death.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or I'm part of some ethnic race the leader
Speaker 4: who's in charge doesn't like. So therefore, like yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: there's going to be a different model of whatever it is.
Speaker 3: You know, like I don't know, Russia wasn't great back
Speaker 3: in the day.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, it was China, right, So yeah, which, so
Speaker 4: it's not to say that like Capital M is pure
Speaker 4: and blameless. I just think that it's the best so far.
Speaker 4: But let's make it better, Like why not make it better?
Speaker 4: You know? And I think it's really comes down to
Speaker 4: each Really it comes into consumer's power because I think
Speaker 4: sometimes I get lost and I'm like, ah, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 4: you know, like where I buy this thing doesn't matter,
Speaker 4: but it actually does matter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think.
Speaker 4: There's power, and I think there's beauty and being able
Speaker 4: to choose where you buy a thing.
Speaker 1: From Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: But you can also be like, yes, it's horrible and
Speaker 3: we're destroying the world and you.
Speaker 1: Know, I mean, then drink out of your hands. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, dude.
Speaker 4: Like it's like, you know, it's like power based versus
Speaker 4: relationship based lanthrope. Yeah, you know, we're moving, we're weaving,
Speaker 4: we're trying to get better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're gonna you're gonna have to adjust, Like
Speaker 2: you said, I'm gonna make some l's like I'm doing
Speaker 2: the best with what I got. I'm gonna learn maybe
Speaker 2: five years from now that this move wasn't the best move.
Speaker 2: But I think the the willingness to be like to
Speaker 2: self reflect, to look and be like, yeah, this was
Speaker 2: our goal. Like you said, we came in trying to
Speaker 2: be this and we still want to be this. We're
Speaker 2: just not achieving it using the tools we have now,
Speaker 2: so let's find better tools.
Speaker 1: I'm with.
Speaker 2: So now it's sign for you to sell stuff. So
Speaker 2: tell me, tell me about the sales.
Speaker 3: Like what links just come check it out?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead, Oh no, it's just all.
Speaker 4: The you know, it's it is interesting because, like you know,
Speaker 4: promos holiday, Like usually on Black Friday, we're kind of
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, take it or leave it, Like we're
Speaker 4: not gonna We're not gonna discount it.
Speaker 3: You know. I mean the whole idea of discount is
Speaker 3: kind of funny to me too.
Speaker 4: So it's like, I mean, I get it, you're trying
Speaker 4: to get these pops and we you know, we do,
Speaker 4: we try to get as creative as we can, but
Speaker 4: like idea, the whole the whole thing on Black Friday
Speaker 4: is kind of funny where it's just like we're just
Speaker 4: gonna massively decrease what we perceive as value in our
Speaker 4: company for a day to get more sales, versus like,
Speaker 4: how about we just like sell it for the price
Speaker 4: that we always thought it was fair to sell it at.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: It's like, so you're telling me that your product was
Speaker 2: massively overpriced for the whole year, right, so now that
Speaker 2: you now that you can sell it at the cost
Speaker 2: where you that's where it should have been the whole time.
Speaker 2: That's what I always think where I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 2: so because you're not gonna do it at a loss,
Speaker 2: I know that much. Yeah, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: like so and against.
Speaker 4: Then you know, it gets into like skews and you know,
Speaker 4: ones that aren't performing as well you want to discount
Speaker 4: and move them through. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: nuance to it too, but in general, it's like Black Friday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 3: Let's go buy some more stuff so we can feel objects.
Speaker 2: You hear this guy, he's like saying, and I gave
Speaker 2: him a chance to sell stuff, and he's just like, man,
Speaker 2: that's what I mean by like they're different, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, but yeah, you we.
Speaker 3: Are doing something.
Speaker 4: We are doing something really cool this year, and it's
Speaker 4: it Drops eleven one.
Speaker 3: So maybe this is out I don't know, it's somebody
Speaker 3: out by eleven one. But it's not fun too.
Speaker 4: We've got twelve days of drops, so it's kind of
Speaker 4: like the twelve Days of Christmas. But we have twelve
Speaker 4: different brand partners ranging from like really cool coffee shops,
Speaker 4: some really cool outdoor brands, and we're dropping like collaborative mugs,
Speaker 4: one brand per day for twelve days, and you can
Speaker 4: buy the whole setup you want stuff. So they're super
Speaker 4: unique because again, it's like we want to do something fun, different, interesting.
Speaker 4: Like I think cannas is like day one, yeah, which
Speaker 4: is gonna be super fly.
Speaker 2: Cannabis is in the place that has like a two
Speaker 2: year waiting list to eat in Seattle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're crushing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's gonna be That's gonna be super fun,
Speaker 4: very giftable.
Speaker 3: You know. So there's that, you know, we'll have some
Speaker 3: you know, personalization.
Speaker 4: You can you know, you can put your leg you know,
Speaker 4: put your grammar's face on a bug or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That things are etching.
Speaker 2: It's super Yeah, they're like this will I guarantee you
Speaker 2: this will be your forever water bottle, your forever cup,
Speaker 2: your forever so yeah, it's just yeah, like and you
Speaker 2: know like sometimes like water bottles are even doper when
Speaker 2: they're dented a little bit, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like because they got a little history on it.
Speaker 1: And then if they.
Speaker 4: Start at that patina, Yeah that patina, Like it's yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We we like we like that. What else we do.
Speaker 4: We've got a as you know, we drop soft kids.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I got share this crop. So you
Speaker 4: know our team is like, oh yeah, graphics. So it's like,
Speaker 4: you know, like the thank you thank you have a
Speaker 4: nice day. Uh huh, So yeah.
Speaker 3: Thankful for thankful Day.
Speaker 4: So we have a day where we just we all
Speaker 4: break bread and have lunch together and we call it
Speaker 4: thankful Day.
Speaker 3: But we started dropping merch internally. This is riding a turkey.
Speaker 2: They got eternal merch. Sorry audio, that is so great.
Speaker 1: The dude love it.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know you recommended Liz thanks to prop
Speaker 4: Liz Chai and the team coming up with a meer
Speaker 4: cat right in a turkey, meer cat right to public.
Speaker 4: But we got a Softka's about a year ago. And
Speaker 4: we've got a we've got a recycled Cashmere beanie coming
Speaker 4: out this holiday season.
Speaker 1: Sheesh.
Speaker 4: And I think it's like seventy five dollars because it's
Speaker 4: super expensive to make. Yeah, but let me tell you
Speaker 4: it is so soft, and it's it's recycled or like
Speaker 4: what why would we do virgin cashmere. Let's go recycle
Speaker 4: cash the product already exists, Let's just remake it.
Speaker 2: The thing is yeah, Like I like, if I can
Speaker 2: make this very clear, like if you're an artist, you're
Speaker 2: a pod. You produce a thing you need, and you
Speaker 2: need merch, like mer con source not only your cups
Speaker 2: and bottles and stuff like that, but also sweaters, hoodies,
Speaker 2: beanies like like this can be rather than ordering from
Speaker 2: American Peril or Bella Canvas or something like that, you
Speaker 2: could say. And they have the ability to design, they
Speaker 2: can help with design. They print, they you know if
Speaker 2: they homies printing it, you know what I'm saying, So
Speaker 2: like the stuff gets to you quicker, like I'm telling
Speaker 2: you this, like this is my whole chest.
Speaker 1: I can get behind that now.
Speaker 2: Granted, because it's so quality, because it's so fast, You're
Speaker 2: not just going to a sweatshop and getting getting a
Speaker 2: sweater for three bucks. It's gonna cost you more, but
Speaker 2: it's a higher quality. You know it ain't ain't nobody.
Speaker 2: Ain't nobody get trafficked into making these things, which is
Speaker 2: why it costs so much, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And on top of that, like again, business brain, you
Speaker 2: sell it at a higher premium, like like just it's
Speaker 2: that's why it had fifty dollars.
Speaker 4: It's kind of been a kind of a conundrum for
Speaker 4: me of like having to explain to folks dollar margin
Speaker 4: versus percent margin, even like really well intended like shop owners,
Speaker 4: you know, We'll be at a trade show and they're like, wow,
Speaker 4: you know this is more expensive than blah blah blah
Speaker 4: blah bl you know whoever.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, it is, but you also make more.
Speaker 3: And they're like, what do you mean.
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, if you buy this shirt from somebody
Speaker 4: else at ten dollars and you read yourself for twenty
Speaker 4: in ten bucks, if you're buying hours for fifteen, you're
Speaker 4: reselling it for thirty, you're making fifteen dollars assuming you're
Speaker 4: selling one for one. In general, we've seen people sell
Speaker 4: it more like faster. Yeah, you're gonna make more dollar
Speaker 4: march and they're like wait what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to lay that out, and I figured, like
Speaker 2: my business brain is like I got it. I'm a
Speaker 2: C minus at best, but I do know how to
Speaker 2: push merch and like yes and the.
Speaker 1: Like you said, the perception.
Speaker 2: Now we're getting really into business stuff, but like your product,
Speaker 2: a lot of times, if it's too marked down, then
Speaker 2: I'm like, well you think this is cheap, Like you
Speaker 2: think this is trash?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Now, if it's way too high, then it's like all right,
Speaker 2: you're tripping. But you set it at a price that says, nah,
Speaker 2: there's value.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite brands right now is Born and Raised.
Speaker 2: Their hoodies are two hundred dollars, and it's like, which
Speaker 2: is I get it insane, but like there are some
Speaker 2: of them hoodies. I'm like, I am doing that because
Speaker 2: one I've ordered a hoodie from them for and it's
Speaker 2: a dope hoodie. And two I'm like, I believe in y'all.
Speaker 2: This is us, Like you're making a statement on like, no,
Speaker 2: this is my soil here. I believe I am Born
Speaker 2: and Raised, you know what I'm saying. So like that
Speaker 2: buy in has to do it not so much to
Speaker 2: price point, but who you are as a brand. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you believe in me, so like I'm gonna give you
Speaker 2: quality stuff because you believe in me.
Speaker 1: Can feel me?
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we off.
Speaker 4: The rain and it's all like, well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: business and consumerism, Yeah, you know, we're all consumers and
Speaker 4: it sucks like we're you know, I don't want to
Speaker 4: produce myself to being an up consumer, but I am
Speaker 4: a consumer of many things. Yes, food, gasoline, sometimes yeah,
Speaker 4: actually oftentimes because I fly. Yeah, I haven't figured out
Speaker 4: that gas let's flying yet. But it's all about trade offs,
Speaker 4: you know. So it's like, you want to buy something
Speaker 4: more responsible, it might cost you more money.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna cost more, yeah, but it.
Speaker 3: Might last longer. It probably will last longer.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: You want to eat better food, it's more expensive, You're
Speaker 4: you know, live longer, you know. And I think, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's if there was anything that I would really harp
Speaker 4: on right now. Where capitalism is not working is when
Speaker 4: you trade down on the trade offs and listen, not
Speaker 4: everybody can afford you know. Of course, what do they
Speaker 4: call it now? It's like regenerative, organic, obliberty free. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but it's like, yeah, you know, we all have trade
Speaker 4: we all have trade offs and choices to make as
Speaker 4: to what we what we buy, and what we listen to,
Speaker 4: what we watch. Yeah, I mean your time. People think
Speaker 4: times free, It's not. Time is your most valuable asset
Speaker 4: and here we are wasting away on social media now,
Speaker 4: no soapbox, get back in the chair.
Speaker 2: All right, all right guys, but no for real though, Brian,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking time for this is
Speaker 2: long overdue.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: You were on the hit list the whole time. It
Speaker 2: kind of just like again show that is it even
Speaker 2: possible to do business well that minimizes the exploitation as
Speaker 2: much as it can. And uh no, appreciate you company
Speaker 2: here and just transparency and just being like, look we're
Speaker 2: doing our best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks man, It's always it's always good to hang out.
Speaker 3: I wish it was a person. Uh we all get
Speaker 3: in person.
Speaker 1: Time here though, not enough man, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Go back to go back to Korea. That was fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, we went to Korea.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: It was pretty in.
Speaker 3: Hong Kong, Hong Kong with Kenny Kong.
Speaker 4: That was.
Speaker 3: That was then.
Speaker 1: Hong Kong was a great time.
Speaker 3: What was it? What was your name?
Speaker 2: Agetting back doc back down, back down, I forget what
Speaker 2: it is a cantonese it.
Speaker 3: Was it was you can go anywhere. It was like water.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like water, I can go anywhere backed out like here,
Speaker 2: you can do all of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Good mere dot com, y'all mere dot com, m doble
Speaker 4: i R dot com YEP.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Man's appreciate you, hommy fun chat.
Speaker 2: Hang out chat Yuh all right, stop recording, uh waitng
Speaker 2: thing all right now, don't you hit stop on this pod.
Speaker 2: You better listen to these credits. I need you to
Speaker 2: finish this thing so I can get the download numbers. Okay,
Speaker 2: so don't stop it yet, but listen. This was recorded
Speaker 2: in East Lost Boyle Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap
Speaker 2: in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If
Speaker 2: you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got terraform Coldbrew. You
Speaker 2: can go there dot com and use promo code hood
Speaker 2: get twenty percent off.
Speaker 1: Get yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited.
Speaker 2: And mastered by your boy Matt Alsowski Killing the Beast Softly.
Speaker 2: Check out his website Matdowsowski dot com. I'm a spell
Speaker 2: it for you because I know m A T. T
Speaker 2: O s O W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com.
Speaker 2: He got more music and stuff like that on there,
Speaker 2: so gonna check out The heat. Politics is a member
Speaker 2: of cool Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part
Speaker 2: of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring
Speaker 2: is also by the one and nobly mattow Sowski. Still
Speaker 2: killing the beats softly, So listen, don't let nobody lie
Speaker 2: to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics.
Speaker 2: These people is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all
Speaker 2: next week.