1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much 3 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: as always for tuning in. Let's give it up for 4 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: our super producer, Mr Max Williams. Spicy Boy a k 5 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: A Yeah, yeah, a K Street named Spicy Boy. That's 6 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: b O. I uh. And let's also give it up 7 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: for a research associate on this one, Mr Max Williams. 8 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Here we go a little energy here. I'm ben Uh. 9 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: Joined as always with the man in the myth, the legend, 10 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Mr Noel Brown. No, mainly myth. I like to think 11 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: myself of mythological sec myth. Yeah, sort of a winged 12 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: Pegasus chimera type figure, you know. Would you say it's 13 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: a former career, Well, it continues to aid me in 14 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: my current career. But yeah, back in the day, in 15 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: the days of of your I was more of a 16 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: harbinger of the plague, things of that nature. I mean, no, 17 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: I have known you, Free, I've worked with you for 18 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: years now, and I have never seen you in person. Well, 19 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: there you go. You've seen my head, which is a 20 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: sort of sort of like a sphinx rules you know, 21 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: I've got the human head, but That's why I only 22 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: show above the neck on the zooms. Never will you 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: see my winged the shoulders, shoulders or or claws or talents. 24 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Got goat legs down here too, I said, Pegasus, But 25 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: you know I'm still a biped. I don't know why 26 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: I said that. Yeah, yeah, sort of a centaur Pegasus. 27 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: If anyone is uh, if anyone's interesting in my former career, 28 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: I think all I can legally say is that there 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: is a total lunar eclipse that occurred this past Tuesday. 30 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: As you are hearing this episode, no other spoilers. Have 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: fun see me at the mirror or the crossroots in 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: the dark. Today we are continuing something that has fascinated 33 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: all three of us. We're looking at the surprising former 34 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: careers of notable historic figures. We're talking about heads of state, 35 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: and in this episode we're talking a lot about actors. Now. 36 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: It's it's true. We discussed this in Surprising Former Careers 37 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: Part one. It's true that a lot of times in 38 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: your history books you'll see someone remembered for just one thing, 39 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: right like Buzz Aldrin may have some cool emo albums, 40 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: maybe a classical guitarist. The main thing Buzz Aldron is 41 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: known for is being an astronaut. There's a great Mitchell 42 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: and Web skit about that. And today, no, we're we're 43 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: diving into some pretty surprising careers. And I'm really happy 44 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: Max that you also clocked our first guy, Christopher Lee. 45 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: Oh what what a what a bad can I say badass? Oh? Okay, no, okay, 46 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: what a badass this guy was? Yeah? I mean you know, 47 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: he's first of all, he's a badass when he appears 48 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: in films such as The Wicker Man. Uh no spoilers, 49 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: but he's a creepy culty kind of fellow. Obviously. He 50 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: played the evil Wizards sorrow Man in the in the 51 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings films, and he was also like 52 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: an early Dracula drag Dracula, Dracour Dracula, a good one 53 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: sort of in the era of camp. But he definitely 54 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: brought a little bit of debonair swagger to that role. 55 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: He sure did, and he lived one epic life. Christopher 56 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: Lee passed away at the age of ninety three in 57 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: and in his time as an actor, he made well 58 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: over two hundred fifty movies. I think it's two hundred 59 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: seventy five movies. He's known for these iconic betrayals, often 60 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: in horror films. But he had come to this. He 61 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: had come to this film industry as a veteran. He 62 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: was born in London in twenty nine. Now he's just 63 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: playing Dracula, folks, he is human. Uh. He was seventeen 64 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: when the UK entered World War Two and he volunteered 65 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: for the Finnish Army. And he has this great quote 66 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: where he says, we went there with a group of 67 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: friends and said we wanted to help. We could shoot 68 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: pretty well, but could not ski. We were thanked for hell, 69 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: but didn't of course get anywhere close to the border. 70 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: And that wasn't enough. Word. No, he wanted the action, 71 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, Oh, no, exactly. He wanted to get in there. 72 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: He wanted he wanted to be a part of the fray. 73 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: So he went back home to the UK and he 74 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: enlisted in the Royal Air Force. He had, unfortunately there 75 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: damaged his optic nerve which made him ineligible for flight 76 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: uh certification, so he served as an r A F 77 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: intelligence officer instead, which, as we know, this is kind 78 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: of where some of that early you know, UK intelligence 79 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: kind of spycraft stuff arose from. He ascended to the 80 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: rank of flight lieutenant, and he essentially was responsible for 81 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: briefing and debriefing pilots um and also being kind of 82 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: a go between between the pilots and other units within 83 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: the division. Yeah, exactly, this this hide you have. Being 84 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: an intelligence officer sometimes sounds super cool, sometimes sounds super 85 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: you know, nerdy, But there's a murky part to the 86 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: narrative here. This guy Lee says that while he was 87 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: an intelligence officer, he liaised, as you said, NOL with 88 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: U some some pretty elite units in World War Two. 89 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: We're talking s a S. Special operations executive, the kind 90 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: of folks who send people as assets off the books, 91 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: under the radar, into enemy territory. His military career, as 92 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: far as we can tell, appears to be chock full 93 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: of James Bond type stuff. And you can hear these 94 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: stories about how he personally snuck behind access lines, how 95 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: he helped destroy and sabotage aircraft, how he participated in 96 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: re taking sicily. But again there's a lot of allegedly here. 97 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: And he also helped track down Nazis. Again this is 98 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: this is largely bandied about, but the nature some of 99 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: these missions are such that they couldn't be officially confirmed 100 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: for a long time. Check out. By the way, an 101 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: episode of stuff they Don't want you to know coming 102 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: out on federal classification with Nolan uh Max will be 103 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: producing that one with us and our good friend Matt Frederick. 104 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Max, just for fun, can 105 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: you can you play the Matt Max sound cue? Nice 106 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: HiT's never a wrong time, Never never a wrong time. 107 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: Gosh what a bop. So the thing is, know, as 108 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: you know, Christopher Lee never really talked about his wartime 109 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: experience and depth. He actually in two thousand eleven he said, 110 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: it's just sal is in Special Forces and leave it 111 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: at that. People can read into that what they like. 112 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: They did, Yeah, it did as a kind of statement 113 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: that makes one's imagination run a little bit haywire. So 114 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: there within within that statement and his sort of you know, 115 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: attitude towards talking about his past became this I can 116 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: relate to mythologizing kind of of this period in Christopher 117 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: Lee's life, a man who would ultimately go on to 118 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: become much more known as playing badasses in movies or 119 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: at the very least kind of you know, creeps and 120 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: weirdos and and arch nemesses, but after his death in 121 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: a guy named Gavin Mortimer was able to do a 122 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: little bit of digging and unearthed some very interesting findings. 123 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: In an article for The Spectator, Um, Ben, if you would, 124 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: my friends, this is uh, this is really kind of 125 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: the the lead here. Oh yeah, yeah, Gavin Mortimer says, 126 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: Lee didn't exactly lie, but you did leaders on encouraging 127 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: us to believe it had involved more darry Do than 128 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: it actually did. Darren did Darren did there? It is there, 129 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: it is no, we're keeping it. That was gold. Uh 130 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: So people go back and forth, is what we're saying 131 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: about the um level of possible embellishment in Lee's military career. 132 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: And again, the thing you have to remember about that 133 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: kind of work, intelligence work, wet work, treecraft, whatever you 134 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: want to call it, is that when it is successful, 135 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: you don't talk about it, right, You just don't. It's 136 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: just hey that I fell out of that window. Uh. 137 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: Fight club? What's that? It's like fight club? The first 138 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: rules you don't don't talk about what are you talking? 139 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: So so yeah, so we see that there were um, 140 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: we see there are competing claims about the level of 141 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: his involvement directly in the action. This guy Mortimer, I'm 142 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: so glad you brought him up. No, he is one 143 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: of the on record um one of the on record researchers. 144 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: Disputing some of these claims. He says Lee did not 145 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: serve in the s O E or the s A S. 146 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: But he does confirm the guy did function as a 147 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: liaison officer between nine and forty five. And he says 148 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: Lee was perfectly free to talk about the details of 149 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: his service. So he may have been, you know, kind 150 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: of encouraging to make of his own myth. As you 151 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: pointed out, Max, we the people, the public, both sides 152 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: of the Atlantic, we'll probably never know the truth, the 153 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: full truth about Christopher Lee's military career, but we do 154 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: know that he did something and then he left and 155 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: made a legendary career as an actor. Uh. And you 156 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: have to wonder, you have to wonder what that kind 157 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: of life was like. I I remember reading an anecdote 158 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: where where in Christopher Lee interrupted the filming of a 159 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: scene to say, Hey, that's not the noise people make 160 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: when you come at them behind with a knife, and 161 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: and like apparently he did the noise. It was like 162 00:11:49,840 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: here's how here's how it sounds. That's where what shall 163 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: we uh, shall we litigate this a bit between the 164 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: three of us. What do you think was he was 165 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: he building a myth, you know, as as the band 166 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: Beach House would say, building himself a myth? Um? Was 167 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: this to add a casher and swagger to maybe his 168 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: his Hollywood street cred? Or was he just kind of 169 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: tight lipped about it? And this guy Mortimer doesn't know 170 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: what he's talking about. Yeah, I mean, let's let's litigate. 171 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: Let's do because pull we have very little like you know, 172 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: deats like as to you know, I don't know if 173 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: it was truly off the books, You're not only gonna 174 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: find it in any books or records, right, Yeah, And 175 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: that's why we have to go to these statements, right 176 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: and treat them objectively. One piece I will note is, 177 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, everybody's waiting for us to point this out. Obviously, 178 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: Building a Mystery by Sarah McLaughlin is a d percent 179 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: about Christopher Lee's military career and the later cover up. 180 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: And all you all you have to do is read 181 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: the lyrics. Folks. We're not here to persuade you. We're 182 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: just giving you the facts, and those facts are solid 183 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: as long as no one checks that claim about Sarah 184 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: McLaughlin and building a mystery, right, I mean, I wouldn't 185 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: be surprised in this case, would be like he'd be 186 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: talking to someone after the war and there, God, so 187 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: what do you do when you kind of just told 188 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: him one of that. It's like, oh, was that like 189 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: special Operations really chreking down Nazis? And he's like, sure, 190 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: why not? And that's where I love this spun from. 191 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: But I did want to give a shout out to 192 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: the research material on this one is from an all 193 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: That's interesting article by Talina Fraga titled very titled by 194 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: the way, from Nazi Hunting through Covert Missions inside the 195 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: military career of actor Christopher Lee. Yeah, and when you 196 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: put that in a headline like that, it turns heads, 197 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: which I think is when headlines are meant to do. 198 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,599 Speaker 1: But alas we really will probably never truly know the 199 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: real extent of Christopher Lee's military career. Ah And speaking 200 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: of headlines, let's go to our next surprising career just 201 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: the headline will give you from New York Times by 202 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: Michael Beschloss for Harry Truman. The bucks stopped at a 203 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: brush with bankruptcy. So Harry Truman, uh, some of you 204 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: made him as a former president of the United States. 205 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: He was before that deep in the hat business and 206 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: he was not great at selling hats. No, no, Um 207 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: have a dashery, which I think is is also it's 208 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: not just a hattery. It's a men's clothing boutique of 209 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: some sort. I guess maybe they leaned a little more 210 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: into the into the hats. And it all goes back 211 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: to kind of a series of unfortunate events beginning with 212 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: his maternal grandfather, Solomon Young, who did, in fact strike 213 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: you rich during the California gold Rush. Uh this you know, 214 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: newfound largesse allowed him to build quite a large ranch, 215 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: around forty thousand acres um. This is a big deal. 216 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: This is this is a is a massive piece of property. 217 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: The ranch could have potentially been worth millions of dollars. Unfortunately, though, 218 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: he did one of those things where you like you 219 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: sell your property when it's underwater essentially, or when you 220 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: like owe more than the property's worth, or at the 221 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: very least, selling too early, you know, and paying too much, 222 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: and you're screwed. You know. That's why you gotta have 223 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: those diamond hands. You gotta have those diamond Solomon young. Yeah, 224 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: people don't really say that anymore because I think people 225 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: are very over crypto. But this is sort of like 226 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: a speculative kind of situation and either you know time 227 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: it right or you don't. And the and Solomon didn't, No, 228 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: unfortunately didn't. And this means that when when young Truman 229 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: is growing up in Missouri, uh, everything depends on their 230 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: rather humble farm in Grand View. Now, look, whatever you 231 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: may think of the Truman administration, which is by no 232 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: means a perfect administration, you have to admit Truman was 233 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: a smart kid. He loved reading. He really wanted to 234 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: go to college, but he had to stay and work 235 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: on the family farm, which was quite common for young 236 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: men in his day and age. And he liked the 237 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: rest of his family. Was aware that his grandfather could 238 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: have could have set them up for life, and as 239 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: his personal life probably would have went very differently had 240 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: that had he been born into Silverspoon territory. So he 241 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: knew he had to make his own way. And he 242 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: was plowing the farmland there in Grand View and thinking, 243 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: one of these days, I'm gonna be a big deal, 244 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna be a wheel as they said 245 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: back then. Uh, he went and fought in World War One. 246 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: He comes back and he's like, I gotta make something happen. 247 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be here in the dirt my 248 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: whole life. And he has moved to Independence, Missouri. At 249 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: this time he has married up, as they say, his wife, 250 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: Bess was a high muckety muck in the society of Independence, Missouri. 251 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: And he links up with his old army pal Eddie Jacobson, 252 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: and he says, you know, we did a pretty good 253 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: job running our side business in a canteen when we 254 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: were there at Camp Donophan, Oklahoma. Uh. And Eddie, you've 255 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: worked for years in this habit dashery business. Why don't 256 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: we start a little store of our own out in 257 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: Kansas City. And so they do. Truman and Jacobson looking 258 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: at a twelfth Street in Baltimore Avenue right across from 259 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: the I think it's pronounced mule Bach Hotel. Uh may 260 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: well be known to current Kansas City sights. Uh. They 261 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: sold all kinds of men's wear. I sold shirts, they 262 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: sold stiff collars and neckties and gloves of all varieties, 263 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: and belts and those Panama hats I think is the 264 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: ones that like you wear on safari Um you know 265 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: tends yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly under Ru's underwear, presumably boxers 266 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: and or brief silken, you know, feels good against the 267 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: old the old. There you go with a little Australia 268 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: or medium or whatever. It takes, all kinds seemingly a 269 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: plethora of offerings. Also, you know, they pitched their army buddies, 270 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, to to to kind of drum up business 271 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: for them. Truman actually wrote a letter to an ex 272 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: military friend of his former lieutenant saying that we are 273 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: not handling any booze or candy or apples. I love 274 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: how those are the three things. He wants to get 275 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: that out of the way, real guy. He's like, okay, bro, 276 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: I know you were out at you and we're not 277 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: in the apple game. We're not in candy and also 278 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: no to booze. But but our shirt line and the 279 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: rest of it are as good as money can buy. Yeah, 280 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: And Truman is the accountant in this outfit, Jacobson Eddie 281 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: Jacobson is the buyer. Truman also puts up the majority 282 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: of the capital to start the store, and he does 283 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: this by selling off pieces of the family farm. Uh 284 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: never never a great look, and Truman himself was apparently 285 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: uncertain about exactly how much of his holdings were in 286 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: this partnership. In Truman, talking in retrospect in n he 287 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: said the business earned as much as seventy thousand dollars. 288 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: That's about eight thirty grand today of what inflation calculate. 289 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: So not that uh, you know, not too much. The 290 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: sneeze at there, that's that's pretty great. But nothing exists 291 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: in a vacuum, and the store is not immune to 292 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: the post war bust, or what we would call the 293 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: interwar bust. Now that time between World War One and 294 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: World War Two, there's a lot of deflation and prices, 295 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: a lot of people are out of a job. This 296 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: also later leads to an attempted coup of the Roosevelt administration. 297 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: Just gonna throw that one in there and move on. 298 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: So the thing is, you can blame the national economic 299 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: environment right for the stores problems, but it is that 300 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: the whole explanation. Maybe they just weren't great at it Man's. 301 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: It seems like they had a bang up up upper 302 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: class men's shop, you know, but maybe they just weren't 303 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: particularly good with money or with with handling inventory. You know, 304 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: there there's more to running a small business than just 305 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: having cool stuff and uh and filling a need, because 306 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: there's also like a lot of procedural things that you 307 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: have to do correctly. Maybe their their friends they told 308 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: like no booze, no candy, no apples. Showed up there 309 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: and he's all like, yeah, I'm gonna buy it on 310 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: stuff and then walked in. There was just like a 311 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: ton of candy and apples everywhere, just everywhere. And he 312 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: told everyone's like, they're liars, they're liars. No booze, no booze, 313 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: by the way, but plenty of candy and apples just everywhere. 314 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: They even have candy apples. That's too far, that's a rubicon, 315 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: too far, but cross it they did. The issue was 316 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: that they're selling what you could think of as kind 317 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: of luxury goods right in a time when many people 318 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: are not just figuratively but literally tightening their belts and yeah, 319 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: just so, and this is where things get ugly. This, 320 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: I think tells us a lot about the nature of 321 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: Harry Truman's character. In the spring of nineteen two, stuff 322 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: is clearly going south. The business is finished nineteen twenty three, 323 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: Truman gets elected to be a judge in Jackson County, Missouri, 324 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: and he later says, ala creditors drove Eddy into bankruptcy, 325 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: but I became a public official and they couldn't do 326 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: that to me. Doesn't sound like real buddy system there. 327 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: Sounds like he, uh, cut the guy loose when it 328 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: wasn't convenient to be friends anymore. And Alonso L. Hanby 329 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: put it this way, this is Truman's biographer. Um, there's 330 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: this quote that Max pulled from an article in The 331 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: New York Times by Michael beck Schloss from April of 332 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, where he takes this quote from Truman's biographer 333 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: that I think sheds a good bit of light here. 334 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: Quote the ethic by which he had been taught to 335 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: conduct his life told Truman, the formal legal renunciation of 336 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: debts was disgraceful. So while he didn't have like all 337 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: of the money on hand to repay his debt from 338 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: the failed haberdashery, he did pay the bank back about 339 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: ten years later, and less than ten cents on the dollars. 340 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: So who's dictating these terms, is my question? I mean, 341 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: it's like he's he's throwing his weight around a little 342 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: bit and saying you can't really mess with me because 343 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: I'm an elected official. I mean I will say when, like, 344 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, someone does file with bankruptcy or something that 345 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the normal average amount is, 346 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: but like it generally is at a largely discounted rate. 347 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: Is what you end up having to pay back then 348 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: compared to what your actual debts were? No ten cents 349 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: on the dollar. Say, uh, that's the deal. That's the deal. Yeah, 350 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: that's the deal. And speaking of throwing around, wait, yeah, 351 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: bankruptcy works differently for the wealthy and the powerful, as 352 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: anybody knows. And by this point, Old Harry Habitashter Truman 353 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: is a United States senator, So historians are still divided 354 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: on whether this helped him get a better settlement or 355 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: whether it damaged his case because the people he owed 356 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: money to might be able to say, we're gonna embarrass you. 357 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: We're gonna say, hey, should this guy be a senator? 358 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: He can't even run a freaking hat shop, which would 359 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: be a good you know, a good smear campaign. Well, 360 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, I think we're gonna get into how this 361 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: experience may have uniquely prepared him in many ways to 362 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: take on the kind of like or occupy the shoes, 363 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: let's say, of other you know, normal Americans that were 364 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: struggling during during these times and maybe kind of impacted 365 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: his uh economic you know, goals and and and values 366 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: a little bit. That there is a really great line 367 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: from also the New York Times article that that we 368 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: had mentioned saying at the time when when he opened 369 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: this haberdashery, he lacked a grasp of macro economics. Let 370 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: us say, um, which you know again just by kind 371 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: of virtue of of learning by practice and by screwing up. 372 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: I think he kind of he got that grasp a 373 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: little bit later in life, maybe without having to have 374 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: some sort of advanced degree, which is kind of cool 375 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: in a way, your honor, I lack a grasp of 376 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: macro economics. It is well known. I will gladly give 377 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: you ten cents on the dollar. So uh So, after FDR, 378 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: after Franklin Roosevelt dies in Fort Truman has moved up 379 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: through the ranks of power. He's gone from judge the 380 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: senator to vice president and now he's president because FDR 381 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: found a bucket and kicked it. By the time Truman 382 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: runs for president on zone it's and most people are 383 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: talking there's a lot of good information control here. Very 384 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: few people are talking about how his how his habitationary 385 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: went belly up. They're talking about how he's a veteran 386 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: and he was manning the White House, you know, and uh, 387 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: this is also the start of the Cold War. Let's 388 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: be more patriotic. And there is some pretty compelling research 389 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: that seems to indicate Truman's firsthand experience with a terrible 390 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: financial situation made him more cautious dealing with the finances 391 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: of the United States. To your point, Noel, he could say, 392 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: two millions of Americans, Hey, but I've been there too, 393 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: and it stinks. So let's make sure we as a 394 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: nation can avoid that situation. And remember Jacobson, the fellow 395 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: that he went into business with earlier. Despite the hatch 396 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: up or whatever, haberdashery kind of you know, going belly up, 397 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: they kind of kept in touch. Which is it's again, Neat. 398 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: Truman did seem to have a connection to his roots 399 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: that was not diminished by his growing success in politics. 400 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: Um So the spring of his old buddy actually suggested 401 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: that he should recognize the state of Israel, which is 402 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: which is absolutely revolutionary, controversial at the time, right then, Yeah, 403 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: this is something that tells us a lot about Jacobson 404 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: and Truman's friendship. You know, understandably, of the business venture 405 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: doesn't work out between friends, and you know, one guy 406 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: is still struggling financially and the other guy becomes president, 407 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: there might be a little bit of attention, but uh, 408 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, these guys who put their life on the 409 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: line for each other all those years ago at this point, 410 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: So this informs Truman's campaign and he goes on, you know, 411 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: he goes around the country and he warns voters to 412 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: not slide downhill into bankruptcy and poverty. And then he 413 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: puts a little jab in there. Right, always be closing 414 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: on a campaign trail, He says, the way you did 415 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: under the Republican twelve years of rule back there in 416 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: the twenties. Yeah, twisted, twisted can't make hats, but he 417 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: can make uh, he can't make some eggs. Uh. You 418 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: could say the only reason on Republicans were in charge 419 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: for twelve years was because Woodrow Wilson sucked that bad though. 420 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, give us a boo queue. I hate that guy. 421 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: Go back to ragging on Woodrow huh All hometown hero 422 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: Woodrow of Wilson always got you right on awards Row Wilson, 423 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 1: if you've got a chance, even if you really are 424 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: just kind of jumping that shark rather like that was 425 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: a stretch on my part, but I got in there 426 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: and and I mentioned last time we had a Woodrow 427 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: hating session that I once lived on the corner of 428 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: Woodrow and Wilson. I can't remember it was on air off, 429 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: But but you know, I've seen I've seen Max at 430 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: different shin digs and social get togethers, and that's your icebreaker. Max. 431 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: You know, you just you just freight train into a 432 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: conversation and you say, also, Woodrow Wilson was terrible president, 433 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: and people are super receptive. I think you have. I 434 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: think you're an order my friend. Thank you, buddy. I mean, 435 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: it's easy when your icebreaker is just such an undeniable 436 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: truth that Woodrow Wilson was just the worst seen it. 437 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: I've seen it, you, Lithario. It's a it's a unique 438 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: angle and it's working. Also. Truman, he leaves the White House, 439 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: as we know in fifty three, and he had certain 440 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: idea is about how the next president should behave. He 441 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: actually did not hop on that revolving door of lectures 442 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: and ghost written books and getting affiliated with different corporate boards. 443 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: He just didn't want to play the game. And it 444 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: may have been an ethical quandary for him, um stuff, 445 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: to know the inner motivations of someone like this without 446 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: talking to them directly, But it left him so broke 447 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: that he's he is the president who went to Congress 448 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: and said, hey, can not just for me? Can every 449 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: president have a pension when they leave office? Again, He's 450 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: he's like, picture this pitch. He's going, Hey, guys, being 451 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: president's tough. You know, I know everybody in this room 452 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: wants to be president, and you know, may the odds 453 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: be ever in your favor or whatever. But what happens 454 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: after presidents? Not just another former president friend of mine 455 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: was wondering, you know, also was this I guess it 456 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: was just before the days of absolutely exploiting your former 457 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: position into like book deals, and that really wasn't a 458 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: thing yet because that, to me is the stock and 459 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: trade of a former president. You're gonna make seven figures 460 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life just on like doing 461 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: speaking engagements and like, you know, getting book deals and 462 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, I mean there were many presidents 463 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: before who had done a predecessor of that, but this 464 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: was before um the kind of celebrity status that you 465 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: see people assume after leaving office these days. Uh, and 466 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: you know it's not always presidents. Senators do the same thing. 467 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: As I want to point the stocks I was thinking 468 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: about this send back here on. I don't actually know 469 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: the answer, but how many ex presidents were even alive 470 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: at this point when he's going there? No Fdr Stead, 471 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: Fdr Stead Obviously Wilson's dead, Art Instead Adams died in office. 472 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm a stooping Calvin Coolidge. I know Hoover was still alive. 473 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: I'm pretty certain who were still alive at this point. 474 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: So that's about it. So a friend of his could 475 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: use some help, is what he said. So I liked. 476 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: I like the way we're doing this. So, uh, we 477 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: know that he did get back in better financial shape 478 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: in fifty five, when the some of the farmland that 479 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: he's still held in Grand View was developed into a 480 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: shopping center similar to the strip malls you might see 481 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: in your neck of the Global Woods, Truman Corners Town 482 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: and Country Shoppers City. It sounds a lot like that 483 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: Tim Robinson sketch from I think you should leave now 484 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: the shops by the Creek. That's what happened. I think 485 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I have some some quality uh quality boutiques. They're not 486 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: no haberdasheries, I fear, But I think there's a pet 487 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: Smart perhaps right argue. You know, yeah, there's a lead depot, 488 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: there's a mercury salon. Uh, there's an as bestess bridle shop. 489 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: You know it gets. It's called as best as it gets. 490 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: And not to bury the lead nor the lead. Uh. 491 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: He also in nineteen six, I mean, he remained active 492 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: in politics. So he did the thing that you see 493 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: all sorts of former presidents do when their political party 494 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: has a has a candidate. He stumped for John F. 495 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. He got them to make 496 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: a campaign stop at his mall. It's very American thing 497 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: to do. And uh. Then and maybe this is how 498 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: we end this part. Then almost a hundred years later, 499 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: after that hat shop, after that habitdashery excuse me, closes down, 500 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: Truman's Corners gets rebranded as Truman's Marketplace, it as a 501 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: pet Co, it as a TJ Max end it has 502 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: a Burlington Coat factory. You can think all all the 503 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: weird knick knacks between TJ Max and Burlington that you 504 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: can find. I mean, you know what, do you want 505 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: some uh some marked down artisanal syrups for your for 506 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: your coffee drinks. I think it's in the in the 507 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: in the checkout line. It's right there. You want some 508 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: kettle corn? Yeah, it's weird. There's as now. Yeah. Yeah, 509 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: Burlington is aberdat, that's true. It's a it's a multi 510 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: purpose dashery. Really, um, I think there's they sell women's 511 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: clothes there. And it's weird because you think they say 512 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: it's a factory. It's sort of like the cheesecake factory. 513 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: It seems like false advertising. Some you go into the 514 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: cheesecake factory, I want to see like conveyor belts with 515 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: robots slicing cheesecake. Same with this. I want to see, 516 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, industrial revolution type gear making coats before my 517 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: very eyes. Yeah yeah, no, I looked. I wanted to 518 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: see whether there was a factory to when I was 519 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: a kid. This is an episode for another day in 520 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: the history of Burlington Coat Factory. And so we are 521 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: drawing to a close of Surprising Former Careers, Part two 522 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: in our continuing series. There's some stuff we didn't get to. 523 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: Steve Blushemy really interesting, dude. We don't want to spoil 524 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: it too much because we have more surprising former careers 525 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: on the way. We would love to hear your thoughts 526 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: over at our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, But no, Max, 527 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: what better way to end this episode than to talk 528 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: a little, you know, a little trivia. Maybe it's not 529 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: a whole story, but Max, you dugged up some really 530 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: cool fast facts about some other notable celebrities. Yeah, I mean, 531 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: I think the one. I mean, I don't want to 532 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: really say too much because we might use these in 533 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: the future. I mean, I like this as a recurring 534 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: like series. But like there's a lot of them who 535 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: worked in the sex industry, like Whoopie Goldberg. I mean 536 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: guyn In. Guyn In of all people, she was a 537 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: phone sex operator. I mean she always says on T 538 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: and G, she always this to precard. She's a great listener, 539 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: she's a she's more people of listeners and seems like 540 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: you know she did that in the past. That's a 541 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: hard job too. I've always thought, you know, um, there's 542 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, Whoopie Goldberg. Let's see, was it. John Hamm 543 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: also had a career in the adult industry for a time, 544 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: or a gig at least. I just had a big 545 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: old ding dong. Um. But I mean, I guess those 546 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: things are not mutually exclusive. I didn't know that he 547 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: was an adult. He wasn't the talent he was Okay, 548 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 1: got it? Um? What's his name? I'm William Dafoe, also 549 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: known known Large Large Australia. Uh And he was in 550 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: sort of a weird theater group. I wouldn't call it 551 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: porn exactly, but you can't find full nude hangdong video 552 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: of of our boy Willem performance artists doing that thing around. Yeah. 553 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: They also they also used a stunt double. I think 554 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: in may have been the film Anti Ka, just because 555 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: they wanted a more believable Australia for the guy. Uh 556 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: So they're also disturbingly large, right, correct, I've seen it? Yeah, 557 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: like medically interesting, like like Dirk Health. Alright, we're we're 558 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: we're making so many high school teachers regret playing this 559 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: episode for their students. So let's get out of it. 560 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: Let's get here one with one last one thing. We 561 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: wanted to establish when it and on this we can 562 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: do an entire episode just about former occupations of clergy members. 563 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: There was a pope who was a bouncer. Yeah, and 564 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: now he's a bouncer for the Lord. Well yeah, yeah, 565 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: he's definitely man in the door, you know what I mean, 566 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: ideologically and religiously. But this is just to show you 567 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: that there are many more former careers out there. We 568 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: even talked a little bit about getting kind of meta 569 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: talking about our own former careers. Let us know if 570 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: that's interesting to you. In the meantime, tune in. We 571 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: have so much more cool stuff ahead. We're gonna get 572 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: to mustard thanks to everybody who wrote in and with 573 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: some ideas about condiments. There's a huge mustard debate. There's 574 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: several huge mustard debates, and we're gonna get to all 575 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: of them. We're also gonna explore even more strange pieces 576 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: of ridiculous history. We're so gratefully tuned in. We can't 577 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 1: wait to hang out again very soon. In the meantime, 578 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: thanks to our research associate super producer Mr Max Australia Williams, 579 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: he gets it. He gets that's the double thank you. 580 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: In one nugget there, so we don't get to thank 581 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: him again. In fact, I think you've about warn out 582 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: your thank you welcome here, Max, and you won't be 583 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: getting anymore thank you from us for some time. No, 584 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 1: I'm kidding, well, thank you un till the cows come home. 585 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: You're a favorite human. Um, So thank you to gain back. 586 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry for what I said. I didn't mean it. 587 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: I didn't mean it. That was a real emotional Roller 588 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: Coast Journal. And I don't know how to respond to 589 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: all that. I don't have to. I liked it. I 590 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: liked it just thanks of course, Thanks of course to 591 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: uh the one old Mr Noel Brown. Thank you to 592 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, who has a surprising former career as not 593 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: being our nemesis. It's a bit of past life. Yes, uh, 594 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: let's see you. Who else thinks also too? Of course? 595 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: Uh Chris Frosty otis Eve's Jeff Coat. Thanks to oh 596 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: you know, I want to say thanks to our pals 597 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: Diana and Eli over ridiculous Romance, Thanks to our pals 598 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: Zarin and Elizabeth over ridiculous crime. And thanks of course 599 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: to our good pals Mark and Bill over at ridiculous News. 600 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: If you like this show, you're gonna love all three 601 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: of those shows. Uh, so give them, give them a 602 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: little TLC drop a rating for them or us, and 603 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: let's make sure that let's make sure that we could 604 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: keep podcasting our current career. How about that. Also, if 605 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: you just think our show is okay, their shows are 606 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: better than ours. So yeah, there you go, you'll like them. 607 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: See you next time. Fix For more podcasts from my 608 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 609 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.