WEBVTT - How Umami Works! 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.320 Welcome to you Stuff you should Know from house Stuff 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:12.560 Works dot com. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.439 Josh Clark, Charles W Chuck Bryant and Jerry and so 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.759 this is stuff you should know. I tell you about 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:22.720 to change the name of the show right there on 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.760 a whim. No, no, no, all right, that's very meaty 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.120 and savory of you. M Can you smell my juices 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.200 I'm cooking in them. You smell like a fish stock. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.600 Oh yeah, yeah, you know I did it. Don't be 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.199 dumb on ketch Up. The origin of ketch Up, the 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.400 good one and it actually oh you saw that? You 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:46.560 watched this? Of course I do. I had no idea. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.000 I'm your biggest fan. You're one of the well no, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.080 I'm one of those people. It's like this, guys so dumb, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.279 what kind of it? I don't get it. Get through 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.320 the boy? Is he acting like that? But I just 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.320 keep watching them. I can't help it. So you saw 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.120 the one about Ketchup, and you know about catchy Up, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.240 the Vietnamese fish sauce that actually serves as the basis 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.280 for Ketchup. Yes, the American condiment which is not the 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:16.319 number one selling condiment. In America. No, what is it mayonnaise? Oh? Yes, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.920 did you know that? Manaise clearly didn't. What kind dukes 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.280 is your brain? Right? Well, I'm dukes, But I'm just 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.919 I'm gonna I find myself a defender of mayonnaise because 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.920 my whole life people have just thought it was gross. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.640 Not everyone you would do well in like France or Belgium. Buddy, Yeah, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.280 like on a hamburger and hot dog people like, because 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.440 I don't like ketchup and people think I'm weird. Oh no, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.480 you need some ketchup too, Not that much. I've also 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.920 found recently, as a grown up adult, a real live 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.880 one that like, you can replace ketchup with tomatoes and 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.520 it tastes maybe even better, depending on the ketchup you 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:55.000 mean on a burger, Yes, instead of both, you just 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.480 mean no ketchup. Yeah, you could put in both. I'm 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.360 not I'm not opposed to it. No, it's just it 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.320 I've found and it was a big surprise to me, 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.600 a really big surprise that if you just put tomatoes, 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.120 a good tomato on and no ketchup, you're actually creating 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.840 the taste that you're looking for with ketchup. That just 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.440 misses it slightly because it's gotten more than tomatoes in it. Right. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.280 It's really, again, very surprising to me, even though I realized, 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.200 of course that tomato is made from ketchup is made 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.200 from tomatoes, Like, I haven't made that connection. I just 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.040 didn't realize how good just tomatoes were on a burger 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.839 without ketchup. I don't like raw a tomatoes either, so 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.480 I wouldn't do that. And you can't dip our French 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.160 right in a tomato. Well, no, I'm not opposed to 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.560 catch up. I'll still use ketchup not here, especially for 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.239 dipping fries. I'm cool with that. I'm not down and 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.200 ketch up here is what I'm trying to say. I 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.520 just think that tomatoes are great on a burger. But 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.880 I also like mayo too, I think is ultimately the 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.120 point that started me off on this. Yeah, I like 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.960 tomato sauce, like red sauce, but I don't like raw 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.720 tomatoes or just whole tomatoes. They're slimmy, and I'm not 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.920 supposed to eat them like an apple or anything. If 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.839 you've been doing that, I can understand why you don't 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.200 like raw tomatoes. Some people do. Some people to slice 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.280 them in the amount plate. They're not just holding it 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.560 in your hand eating it like an asshole. Look at 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.960 a monster does that? That's what I'm saying, a monster 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.519 becaus are well Helm the second Yeah, he was, he 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:31.480 was known, all right. So all of that to say, mommy, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.600 oh mommy, Oh mama, this one's about o mommy. The 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:42.160 fifth flavor, the fifth beetle, out of what they now 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:48.600 say is six fat fat carbon dioxide is also one too. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.640 We supposedly they've found receptors that are tailored specifically to 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.760 sensing carbon dioxide on the tongue, and that ultimately that 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.320 makes it qualify as so they're gonna be seven now, 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.240 I think way more. I don't know why science has 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.280 been so stingy 're so reluctant to accept the idea 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.080 that we have more than four flavor receptors, or more 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:16.479 four taste receptors. But oh mommy, was isolated in the 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.440 in the beginning of the twentieth century, and it wasn't 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.200 for almost eighty years before the West finally accepted it. Yeah. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.520 Part of the reasons because it was the research was 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.600 written in Japanese. Well it's okay, that's maybe had something 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.600 to do with it uh. And part of the issue 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.839 was that um, it's you Mommy is very mild and taste, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.080 and when you have um high concentrations of it to 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.400 increase set flavor, you've got salty and sour mixed in. 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.640 So I think it just confounded the West. They're like, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.400 what we get sour, we get salty, we get sweet, 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:01.200 for sure, why we even get bitter, but we don't 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.479 get this other thing. Nope, and we're not going over five. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.719 So you better make the summi stuff good. That's what 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:12.080 the West said, dumb Western scientists and food scientists. So chuck, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.520 I think we let the cat out of the bag 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.640 a little bit. Um. The Japanese are the ones who 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:23.600 first discovered ummi's right comes from the word um i uh, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:29.159 roughly translated as delicious. Uh. Chefs, if you talk to 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.160 a chef and mommy's a big hot thing right now, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.640 they'll say, maybe it's like a mushroomy thing, it's like 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.360 an earthy it's it's it is very subtle. Like I said, 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.479 it's musty. Yeah, musty, which doesn't sound appealing, No, but 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:47.240 it also makes sweet different. That's ou Mommy's big, great quality, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.520 And I think that's probably one of the reasons why 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.479 it was hard for the West to accept it is 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.760 ou Mommy's big thing is synergizing. It's a supporting cast 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.000 member almost. Yeah, it takes, Yes, it is. It's like, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:08.960 um Bud Bundy not a leading guy, but you put 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.920 him in an ensemble, He's gonna bring everybody else up. 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.240 It's what he's known for. I would give a million 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.880 American dollars to be inside your brain during that five 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.320 ish seconds of your spinning around searching for supporting cast 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.479 member and ending up at Bud Bundy. Will you come 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.640 back in twenty years and give me a million dollars 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.760 and I will let you man. That would be amazing. 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.960 So um with like salty sour, we get again, we 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.000 get those things. They stand on their own. Umami actually 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.839 has a very mild and not necessarily like pleasurable flavor 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.520 on its own. Yeah, you don't want something that's like, oh, 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.120 this is just umami flavored, right, but it is almost 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.880 like it's designed to interact with other flavors, especially salty 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:59.200 and especially sweet. Agreed, and ummmy can even interact with itself. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.400 And all of a sudden, it takes what was just 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:07.280 like home day and turns it into the greatest day 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.280 of your life with one bite of cham with some 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:16.320 hot umami on umami action. Uh. So it is nothing new, obviously, 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.240 It's not like you can just identify new taste. Um. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.760 It's been around. Um. The Romans and the Greeks before 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.800 them enjoyed something called garum and that is a sauce that. Boy, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.520 you want to talk about how you find something weird 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.800 food wise? They were gutting fish and they said, let's 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.280 take this fish cuts and blood and let's salt it 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.040 and leave it out in the sun for three months 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.120 and see what happens. See what happened, and you have 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.600 to eat it, eat it you uh, and someone eventually 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.840 ate it. They strained the liquid from the top of 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.840 it and they said, boy, this sauce is this is 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:56.240 garam sauce. This good stuff is delicious. Garam means delicious 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.240 in ancient Romans. I think so. And it is uh 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:05.840 that was mommy personified um. Because how umami was discovered. Uh. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.400 In nine seven there was a brilliant chemist name uh 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:16.280 Kikunai Aikita sor right that a e. It's got to 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.720 make you a little pop to it got you. But yeah, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:24.440 you did it, thank you. So he was a chemist, 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.920 and uh, he worked at the Imperial University. I'm sorry 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.280 he was. Yeah, he was a professor at the Imperial 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:35.760 University of Tokyo. And he was perplexed that he tasted 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.960 something one day and said, this is not any of 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.800 those four flavors. No, no, no, I know this is different. 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.160 He was all about the dashi. And dashi is the 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.160 basis of miso soups, lots of other stuff, but basically 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:54.440 it's a fish stock made from I think tuna flakes 0:08:55.000 --> 0:09:00.120 and um coombu which is dried kelp yes, and the're 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.000 all kinds of recipes for a daschi base. And it's 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.720 in a lot of things from sauces and like sober 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.920 noodle sauces to like you said me, so um really 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.800 really big ingredient in Japanese cuisine, right, And this guy 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.120 was like, this little boy loves this dashi and I 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.240 want to know exactly what is making it so wonderful. So, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.559 since he was a chemist, he took I think something 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.920 like twelve ms of dashi and boiled it down ten 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.920 of them, isolated some stuff. The first thing that came 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.840 out were some obvious ones that he clearly discarded is 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.600 not responsible for your mommy, because there were salts. He's like, no, 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.880 it's not that. It's not salt. We understand salt. It's 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.080 not salt. I know for effact it's not salt. What 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.360 else is in here? He starts sorting through it. Right, Well, 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.679 didn't he separate the dashi into its parts and then 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.000 break those down? Yeah? Okay, I just I jumped ahead 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.680 of step to make a terrible chemist. He's on he's 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.040 on kelp at this point, one of the ingredients. Okay. 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.000 And so with the kelp is where he found the 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.040 two salts and your right. He was like, well, I 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.880 know these flavors and they're not what I've been experiencing 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.880 on my tongue now. They're old news. So he looked 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.040 a little further and he found well, wait a minute, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:16.079 what is this. It's glutamic acid. And he's like, maybe, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:20.560 but glutamic acid has a sour taste, and that's weird, Like, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.240 it can't be glutamic acid. It doesn't quite make sense. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.400 So he added some more stuff, came up with a 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.240 chemical reaction, and what popped out on the other end 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.640 is what you and I call monosodium glutamate m s G. 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.480 And he figured out that it's not glutamic acid. It's 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.360 not the salt, but it's actually glutamate. But then he 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.640 figured out even further, it's like glutamate that doesn't make 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.079 any sense, like glutamate. Glutamate doesn't work. Then he realized 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.480 it's not the protein that's giving it the taste. It's 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.439 the amino acids that actually make up proteins that give 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.080 ou mommy its taste. Boom, So glutamate, I'm sorry, isn't 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:04.320 amino acid right? Right? Right? And that's one of the 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.200 things that gives you mommy's tastes. This is the first 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.400 thing that was discovered, um, to give you mommy it's taste. Yeah, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.120 And that was the kelp. So you know, Dashi has 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.800 a different components. So he had a student. He said, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.960 you know what, let me get that the dried tuna flakes. Um, yeah, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.320 bonito delicious. There's different kinds, but bonita is definitely one 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.679 of them. Um. And he says, let me identify these components. 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.880 And what he found was something called uh, you want 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.040 to try that one and the sianate is that right? Yeah? 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.480 I think that is right? Man, it's a nucleic acid. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.920 Like you say, yes, So he's like, boom, I've got 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.439 number two. And then in nineteen sixty another scientist named 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.840 Akira uh Kuni Knaka. He worked for Yamasa, the famous 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.400 soy saucier And now you're just showing off. He was, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.960 um and he went on to work in pharmaceuticals. It 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.800 was interesting, oh the chemist. Yeah, but it's like you 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.360 work for soy sauce and then you go to work 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.120 for a pharmaceutical company. Right, I'm good at both things. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.040 But you're right, it's all this chemistry. Um. So he said, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:15.000 you know what, I can identify a third thing called guanilate. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.800 It's another nucleotide in those shataki mushrooms you were talking about. Yeah, 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:25.000 and it's not like just bonito flakes, combo and saki 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.240 mushrooms are the only things that produce a mommy taste. 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.160 These are just the three things that those guys went 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.719 to town and isolated different stuff out of right. Yeah, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.640 I always want to see Bonita apple bum when you 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.640 say Bonita tribe called quest After all these years, they 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.680 keep making reference, they keep making appearances in episodes lately. 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.280 Oh yeah, they have been. Huh you mentioned him in 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.559 Hula Hoops. Yeah, this one, you can't remember which one. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.440 We talked about the scenario, what's the what's the what's 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.280 the scenario? You know what? My friend Justin whom you 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.640 also know, his mother actually left her wallet and els 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.400 a gun no way, And he even called me. He 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.360 was like, dude, guess what happened? My mother left a 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.800 wallet and elsa gundo. That's crazy. Yeah, it was pretty remarkable. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.439 We should probably take a break, Yeah, and then we'll 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.079 talk a little bit more about the science of taste 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:36.200 right after this. So we have done an episode on 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.320 taste that was great. It was great called Taste and 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.360 How it Works from July right, highly recommended. Yeah, but 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.360 we're gonna go over a little bit more here. Well, yeah, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.520 I think if we're gonna talk about mommy, we'd be 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.319 big jerks if we just assumed, you know everything there 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.360 is to know about. Yeah, we got to talk about 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.720 what's called the gustatory system. Okay, So, um, when we're 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040 talking about taste specifically, that's separate it from flavor, which 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:05.240 we'll get to. But taste begins on the tongue, right, 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.360 and on the tongue you're gonna find what we like 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.600 to call taste buds or pepilla. The pa have taste 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.559 buds on them, right, Yes, there are three main types 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.800 of papia. You have the fun fungy form, mushroom shaped, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.760 the foli eight. Those are the ridges and grooves at 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.120 the back of the tongue, and the circumvallate and those 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.480 are circular at the front front end of the tongue, right. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.600 And then some papi a have a couple of taste buds. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.440 Some have hundreds of taste buds. And then when you 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.920 look into the taste buds themselves, um, they have receptor cells. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.480 And what's interesting is when you think about a taste buds, 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.320 you'd be like, oh, well, there's a salty taste bud, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:51.760 sweet taste bud, ou mommy ou mommy, sweet, sour, bitter, right, 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.120 carbon dioxide. So that's not the case. As a matter 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.680 of fact, taste bud has different recept our selves, and 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.080 these different recept our selves can be tuned to accept 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.000 or sense different types of taste. Wasn't it the shape 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.320 if I remember correctly that, well, that was with the smell. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.760 Smell and tasted closely related, and we should say that 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.560 the spoiler alert for the taste episode. We're not a 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.200 harm percent sure how we sense taste or smell um, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:25.520 but yes, the the predominant theory is that the a 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.720 specific type of odorant or taste molecule will interact with 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.080 a specific type of receptor and when it does, the 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:40.240 chemical in that molecule, that food molecule um unlocks that 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.800 receptor and by doing that, it's translated into an electrical impulse. Boom. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.720 So you chew your food up, gets spitty and saliva covered, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.640 and it breaks it down, cut your tongue and that's 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.720 when that transduction. Uh, those electrical impulses are sent to 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.680 the n st the solitary tract of the brain, sorry, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.200 the nucleus of the soliditary tract of the brain. Yeah, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.120 that's where it all happens. That's when it puts all 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.360 these different tastes together and says delicious, I like this 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.560 or more to the point, and that's probably going to 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.800 kill you, so stop eating that. And like we said, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.600 taste is different than flavor. Taste is just one aspect 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.760 of flavor for a food item or really anything to 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.920 have a flavor, It includes not just the taste but 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.240 also the smell, the side of it, the temperature of it, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:35.800 how it feels, the firm is it a little too gelatinous? Um. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.400 These are all things that your brain takes into account, um, 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.480 including things like memories that you form from having it before. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.240 Cotton candy when I was a kid gives me great memories. Yeah, 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.240 So that plays a part in flavor exactly, like you 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.120 can like it releases some different aspect of it that 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.120 only you can experience that flavor. Yeah, Like if you 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.280 had a cotton candy jelly bean, it would conjure up 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.840 that memory and that would be part of the flavor 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.200 r experience yea, or if it's one of your past lives. 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.439 So that's kind of the science of taste and with 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.840 your mommy specifically. Um. Again, one of the things that 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.920 the West was having trouble with this accepting that ou 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.920 momi was a real thing was that there wasn't any 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:25.879 um what's called psychophysical evidence that oummi was its own taste. Right. 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.560 For a long time, they thought it was just a 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.840 component of salty taste because monosodium glutamate is a type 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:36.160 of salt, Right, It's a salt protein combination that makes 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.639 MSG and for many many years this was the only 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.919 um this is the only source of oummy taste. But 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.880 finally in the eighties, once they had the first international 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:52.560 symposium on New Mommy, it was a real thing. Um 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.920 the I'll bet it was too because it was in Hawaii, 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.560 and the Japanese and Americans love Hawaii, so I bet 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.320 everybody was partying down there. They started to do studies 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.040 in the early eighties and they found oh, actually no, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.639 there are specific receptor cells on the human tongue. And 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.200 it turns out not just in human tongues, but mostly 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.000 human tongues that are designed or geared towards accepting we're 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:20.040 sensing umami tastes. That's right. Those are the g protein 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.720 coupled receptors g pc rs, and that is for sweet, bitter, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.320 and umami and uh, sour and salty those a little different. 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.800 Those sort of flow through ion channels, which is way 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.879 over my head, to be honest. Well, it's just like 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.399 if a molecule is a positive charge of a negative charge. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.960 If it's if it's a positive ion it has positive charge, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.280 it's not gonna make it through all sorts of the channels. 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.359 It's only gonna make it through positive channels. It's not 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.199 it's simple, I know, but as far as relating that 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.199 to a taste, it's just sort of I can think 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.000 of his manage. Well that's the whole thing. It's like 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.560 you said, it's like it's like your brain just turns advantage. 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.760 It's transduction is taking in a chemical and turning it 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.200 into an electrical charge. I just think that's endlessly fascinating. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.439 Oh sure, the senses and how they work, it's like 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.639 it's amazing, But not just that electricity an electric electrical generation, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.239 like you remember that episode Electricity maybe one of our 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.440 best if you ask me. Agreed, alright, So what way, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.000 what we have here are three kinds of receptor cells 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.160 that they know are h that that respond to this 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.399 combination that makes up what MSG is. I'm sorry, what 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:35.520 UMMI is. It's that the gwenny late and the MSG. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.720 And what they think is that they actually hold on 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.200 to these these compounds hold on longer, which is why 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:47.560 you get these interesting combinations. When you have like, uh, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.280 cheese with an apple or cheese on an apple pie. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.240 It takes sweet and like doesn't just make it sweeter, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.280 it makes it like sweet in a different way right exactly. Um. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.679 And the same thing again when when you mixed together 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.639 different types of either amino acids or nucleic acids that 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.440 create a new mommy taste, they magnify this ummmy nous 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.919 of this is meatiness of the whole thing. And um 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.120 also with I believe salty too, Oh mommy and salty 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.080 mixed together. Um. The fact that it it hangs onto 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.240 that that molecule longer and it just leaves that charge going. 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.760 Then that sweet can come and go, but it's it's 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.119 affected by it. Food science is so interesting, it is. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.879 And we're gonna talk a little more about food science 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:53.479 and evolution right after this. All right, So here's one 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.919 thing I didn't get, and I reread this a few times. 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.240 I get the first part of this, which is as follows, 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.679 is that people have long thought that tastes had a 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.760 part in evolution and that we were just wired to 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.240 know that if something sweet is probably okay to eat 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.919 and that will give us nutrition, something really bitter may 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.280 be dangerous to eat, that might be poisonous. And of 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.200 course there's exceptions to all of this. Those are pretty 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:23.600 good general rules when it comes to uh evolution. Right, 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.680 that that was the evolution explanation for the sense of taste, right, yeah, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.680 But what I don't get and is where in here 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:35.199 does it explain the evolutionary uh method of umami? Like 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.720 what role it played? I got this, you're ready? Well, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.960 is it this part about cooking? Yes? Oh it was 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.720 very poorly stated, it really was. But it's really interesting 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.919 that what you realize this that so you said that 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.080 ou momi is is like one of the newer tastes 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.600 or something like that, it actually is. Yeah, they couldn't 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.840 figure out like what part did this have an evolution? No, 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.199 but even before that, like if you look at it 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:02.160 evolutionarily speaking, it's it's actually very old. Supposedly the receptors 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.560 are very old, like four million years old or something 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.800 like that. But the idea that we can taste you mommy, 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.800 or us tasting you mommy is very actually fairly recent, 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:18.880 because ou mommy is released by cooking food. Like if 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.199 you eat a bunch of raw hamburger, that's that's not 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.960 gonna be umami tasting. It's not gonna taste very good. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.280 But you cook that hamburger and you have molecularly changed 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.680 its composition. You've unlocked some of the proteins into its 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.840 constituent amino acids, and all of a sudden, you've got 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.280 umami taste. It's like a caramelizing an onion is completely 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.359 different than the taste of a raw onion or even 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.159 a just regular grilled onion. Yeah, and the big mystery 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.440 of all this, evolutionarily speaking, is that what you're gaining 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.240 or one of the biggest sources of umami taste is glutamate. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:59.200 Well that's great, but the human body produces tons of glutamate, 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:00.879 so it wouldn't make sense that we would have a 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.359 taste receptor to find it in nature because we got 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.280 enough in our body. Well, you need other essential amino acids. 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.840 And if it figures that the best way to get 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:15.800 amino acids is to cook or ferment food, you want, 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.800 you need you need fire because amino acids can be 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.560 bound to proteins and we don't absorb them as well, 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.480 or our body spends a lot more energy of breaking 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.760 them down and digesting them than if we cook them 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.640 or if we ferment them. So man invent fire, man 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.720 starts to cook food, man advances more rapidly. Yes, that's 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.240 one of the ideas that um why our brain developed 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:41.719 as well as it did, or we'd be came as 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.440 intelligent as we did was from cooking food. So we 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.000 were able to um break down our food a lot 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.879 more easily and gain from it, absorb it, and um 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.640 basically grow huge brains that it came from cooking. And 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.040 where where do we get O mommy taste from cooked 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.120 or fermented food where these proteins have been broken down 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:05.959 into much more easily absorbed amino acid constituents. Man, I 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.640 like that. I agree. I feel like I just made 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.760 it confusing, though, did it come across No, it's it's 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:14.159 totally makes sense. We learned how to cook food and 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.720 that put us at the head of the evolutionary ladder. 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:22.720 Right and OUMMI tastes comes from cooked or for many food? Yeah, 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:27.800