WEBVTT - Fire Drill 036: The Voice of the Establishment 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:04.960 But then in ninety four, like you said, when he 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.280 brought up the world tour. It got all the way 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.559 to the point where Arnold Palmer called a meeting in 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.000 his office at Bay Hill and Greg didn't want to 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.520 go and they told me, you gotta go tell Norman, 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.520 since your board member, and you know I'm telling him 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.160 he has to come to this meeting. So I told 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:27.360 him and Arnold Eloquently said this is over. Put another 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:41.640 log on the fire. Nobody here is get the time. Hello, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.720 this is Alan Schipnuk, back for another fire drill podcast. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.960 I am joined by Michael Bamberger in Philadelphia and Davis 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.680 love the third, who was kind enough to call in 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.920 from the Windham championship down in North Carolina. We're gonna 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.880 talk about the big news at hand, which is the 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.200 ongoing civil war between the PGA tour and live golf, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.600 and of course that's now reached the litigation stage and 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.000 a lot of intrigue to discuss. Before we get to that, 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.040 just a quick shout out to our sponsors who make 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.600 all this stuff possible. Part points which, if you're a 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.000 regular listener, hopefully you are, you know it's our favorite 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.080 golf scoring APP kind of a clever and unique way 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.040 to to play the game and I would I would 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.479 encourage all of you to check it out, especially great 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.800 on a buddy's trip or family or people who are 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.080 looking for a different way to uh, enjoy the sport 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.319 and have and have kind of a non traditional way 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.959 of keeping score. And dormy workshop, you know that one 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.920 of our great sponsors. They make beautiful handcrafted leather goods 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.120 and Um, we have a lot of their merchandise now 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:46.520 on the firepit website that we're selling, and really great stuff. that. Again, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.080 we we thank all of our sponsors for helping US 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.080 keep the lights on and doing cool stuff like this. 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.160 So let's get to the conversation. All right, hello, this 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.200 is Alan Schipnuk, back for another fire drill podcast. Delighted 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.360 to be joined by Michael Bamberger and Aldelphia and Davis. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.200 Loved the third coming at us from what we used 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.840 to call it the Greater Greensboro Open right, but now 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.640 it's slightly different. G G oh, yes, now it's the window. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.240 It's the window, it's the window. Davis, thank you so 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.360 much for being here. Um Um, of course you and 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.880 Michael Go way, way back. Michael was trying to locate 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.880 the book that you wrote together on the bookshelf behind 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.480 them but, in typical fashion, could not locate it. But Um, 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.840 uh so we we want to talk about this current 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.240 moment in golf and you were pretty outspoken in your 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.399 press conference there at the window. Um, but I thought 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.519 I'd be helpful for a lot of listeners don't remember 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.640 the world tour of the early nineties and you were 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.880 one of the biggest stars in the game. Certainly you 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.360 were part of those conversations and even going further back when, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.360 when you came on tour six you know, Greg Norman 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.720 was emerging as a real force in the sports so 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.360 you've you've known norman for a long time and and 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.360 uh so that relationship was are these world tor negotiations 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.320 in the early nineties. Can can you tell us a 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.880 little bit about your your how your relationship with Greg 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.520 as evolved through the years and and relive that the 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.440 world tour days of the early nineties? Well, the early 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.880 relationship was greg was trying, just trying to beat him. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.880 You know, I was. I was a guy trying to, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.600 you know, come out on tour and and and run 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.000 up against the Greg Great White Shark you know Darrell. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.480 He hit miraculous shots and unbelievable monker shots and beat 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.560 us there every year. and Um, when you're at the master's, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.240 I was in the hunt on Sunday and said well, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:35.760 if I can, I was playing with Greg. If I 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.400 could just beat Greg, you know I'm gonna win the tournament. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.520 And I beat Greg and shot sixty six and I 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.520 didn't win the tournament. Um. So I ran up against 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.400 him a lot Um, I would say, you know, cordial, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.800 um relationship, competitive relationship. But then in ninety four, like 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.120 you said, when he brought up the world tour. That 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.480 was during one of my many terms on the board 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.920 and I was amongst the fight Um with him on 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.400 that subject and some of the other players that he 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.480 had kind of gathered around him to try to to 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.560 to make a run at the tour, to do something different. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.760 It got all the way to the point where Um 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.360 Arnold Palmer called a meeting in his office at Bay 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.800 Hill of the top thirty or forty players and Tim 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.240 fincham obviously was there. Our commissioner and Greg didn't want 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.839 to go and they told me you gotta go tell Norman, 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.840 since your board member and you know him. Telling him 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:30.440 he has to come to this meeting. So I told 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.240 him and basically, you know the one time I twisted 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.359 his arm. So you have to go to this meeting. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.000 You have to listen to what what Arnolds gonna say, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:40.520 because I don't go to meetings and I don't know 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.640 what it's about. You know what it's about. It's about 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.880 the world tour and I'll tell you what he's gonna 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:46.520 say when we get to the top of the stairs. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.920 And we we walked in, I said Arno was gonna 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.120 tell you this is over, and Arnold's and Tim both 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.680 spoke and said this is not the right thing to do. Um, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.560 we can make changes to the P G A tour 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.760 if we want to, but we're gonna do it in house. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.960 And Arnold Eloquently said Jack and I could have taken 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.560 ownership in the PGA tour when we helped start it, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.880 but we didn't. We set it up to run like 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:10.920 it's running now. It's running great. We're at a good 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:16.120 point in the game and this is over. And my 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.080 relationship with Greg hasn't been any good since. Um. We 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.200 had a lot of discussions or arguments back then and 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.840 my position is still the same. If you work within 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.640 the system. Um, great things can happen if you get 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.840 outside the system and break the rules. Look, look, look 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:36.839 where they are now. I mean that that's quite a moment. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.000 I'm trying. I've been in Arnold's office. Uh, did you 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.040 really have three dozen dudes crowded in there? Yeah, packed 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.160 packed in there. Um, you know, it was whoever the 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.040 top thirty, forty guys that were in the field that week. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.080 And you know there was obviously the players of you know, 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.120 the Fred couples or the VJ sings or the Phil Nicholson's. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.200 Those guys are who we're driving the bus of the 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.680 PGA tour, you know, and that's who Greg was after 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:09.120 the top thirty, and also, Um, who the commissioner was protecting. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.679 And you know, I called Jay Monahan back, Um, late October, 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.360 early November last year and I said we need an 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.360 a palmer right now, don't we? And he said yes, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.880 we do. and Um, you know, back then it was 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.920 really just Phil Nicholson we were concerned about and trying 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.479 to help, and Jay was asking my help to Um, 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.479 you know, to get close to Phil and say, you know, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.040 there's a way out of this. If if you're willing 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:39.640 and so like. Yesterday was breaking news this lawsuit. Well, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.640 to those of us on the inside, or the guys 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.200 on the board, are the staff of the tour it's 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.400 not breaking news. It's been coming for over a year 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.919 and they've been telling players for over a year. If 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.920 you break these rules, if you sign up with this league, Um, 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.920 these are your options. You're either suspended or your band 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.760 for life. Those are only to two options. So to 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:07.560 say that his breaking news amongst the top players that 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.080 either went or I have not gone. It's not breaking news. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.600 It's unfortunately, this has been dragging on for a year. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.880 David's Great Norman. I've had a lot of experience with him, 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.840 nothing like yours, you know, in a different way. I 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.080 find him to be a charismatic person in a lot 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.840 of ways and, uh, he's intense. He gets right in 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.360 your face. I'll just sell you look quick aside. One 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.120 of my first assignments in sports illustrated was mark mccomber 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.000 and Greg Norman got in this feud over whether macomber 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.600 had picked up a live piece of grass, basically in 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.480 his line at fire someone one year, I think it was, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.280 and Macomber said that he had and Norman refused to 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.480 sign his scorecard and uh, and turned to the whole thing. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.440 When I was reporting the story, Um, Norman said, you 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.080 know a lot of brother guys have I troubled with him? 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.720 You should call day this. So I called Davis and 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.560 I said, Davis, have you had probably problems of Macomber? 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.720 And David said, you know, I've heard of things, but no, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.480 I've never. I've never had any problems with macomber myself. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.480 So then I reported that back to Norman and Norman said, Ah, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:19.240 you calling Davis another Yah, but it's bizarre because no, 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.600 not at all. Did exactly what you told me to do. UH, 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.400 but anyway. But but the reason I say that is 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.320 because Norman said to me early on, you know, more 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.360 than half a year ago, how do you feel about 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:36.640 this thing? And I said, if the funding were from 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:41.160 someone other than the Saudis, if I would feel one way, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.440 but because it is from the Saudis, I feel I 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.440 feel another and I just wonder it's it's such a 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.240 big subject. I'm doing the exact thing I said I 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.720 wouldn't do, going to the biggest, broadest part of it. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.359 But I'm wondering to what degree Davis is the combination 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.000 of Norman, who's such an outside figure and you're such 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.240 an inside figure, and the saw the money. How much 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.720 emotion is that generating for you personally? That's a great question. 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:13.640 So the Saudi question is one one issue and outside 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.760 of the United States, the rest of the world really 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.440 doesn't have the problem with the Saudis that the United 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.800 States does, or the public. You know, obviously big corporations 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.640 do business with the Saudis from the United States. Um, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:33.439 there's there's tour sponsors that do business with the Saudies. Um, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.160 if you if you just completely cut out the Saudias, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.640 the Chinese and, you know, half of South America, we 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:44.080 wouldn't have very many sponsors or business going on in 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.080 this country. So that's a that is a problem. And 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.320 then Greg Norman is a problem because he's tried to 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.959 do this twice. We've been investigated by the federal government 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:58.720 twice for collusion or anti trust. Why? Because Greg Norman, 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.200 who's a famous offer, got up and said the tour 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.920 is cheating me and is holding me back from earning money, 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.520 and there they won't let us do what we want 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.160 to do. That's the only reason we've been investigated not 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.280 because we're not successful or a group of players are 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.240 complaining or we we went out on strike. No, it's 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.920 because of Great Norman. So those two are issues. But 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.880 let's just say Um Elon Musk decided to sponsor this 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.080 and there's a lot of money and a great plan. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.199 It threatens the structure of the PGA tour to take 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.439 forty or fifty or thirty of the top players and 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:47.200 say you can play over here fourteen weeks. They'RE gonna 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.320 play next year and then you can come back and 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.080 Cherry pick the really good tournaments on the PGA tour 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:59.400 and the and the majors and and not support the 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.720 rest of the PGA tour. We have whatever forty events. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.880 There's rules. You have to play fifteen to be a member. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:11.839 We've had that rule before, Greg Norman. And the great 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.120 point that Jay struggling because he gets beat up in 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.400 the media. Yet you can ask you all these questions, Shamn, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:22.360 and our commissioner. He said something great yesterday. These rules, 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.760 regulations are made by the players for the players. That's 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.440 the point that the courts or the public or the 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.920 players that left there. You know who's making the rules now. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.560 Rory mcelroy he's on the board of the tour. He 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.120 came from Ireland, the little kid like Greg Norman. They 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.560 wanted to come to America and be a superhero in 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.520 golf and he became one. And instead of challenging the 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:51.840 system and going off with somebody else, with with live golf, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.080 he's working within the system to change the rules. Now 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.240 he and some other players have a groundswell of all right, 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.000 maybe we do need to make some changes. Let's work 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.920 with the commissioner and solve this. That's how it gets done. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.120 I've seen it happen. How many times have we changed 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.240 the Fedex Cup or the qualifying system or um the schedule? 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.479 That comes from the players, not not from staff. So anyways, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.400 the threat to the structure of our business is the 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.839 bigger issue. That's the court battle. The court battle that 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.760 in oversalities are Greg Norman. Is the growth of the 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.760 PGA tour over the last twenty years under this system 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.160 of rules written by the players. Is it working? Yes, 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:39.319 we've grown exponentially in the last twenty years. I mean 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.360 in fairness to Norman, I'm going back to I mean 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.840 as a result of that that challenge for the structure, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.320 we got the world golf championships, the President's Cup, like 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.600 there was. There were some positive changes and and the 0:12:53.640 --> 0:13:00.320 tour became more global. That is there. Is Right. But 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.520 if Greg Norman and Vj Singh and whoever else he 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.080 had on his list had come to the board, I 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.520 was on the board at the time, had come to 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.080 the board and said we want this, and in fact 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.079 I have twenty two players that are willing to go, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.640 this is what we want that, they would have gotten 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.920 the same result. World Golf Championships. Um, the President's Cup 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:33.360 started in ninety four. So it was yeah, I think 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.000 it was. It was gonna happen. It might have happened anyway, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.640 but I probably got fast tracked faster, like in like 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.440 in one year. But yeah, but you you make an 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.600 excellent point and a lot of players say, well, the 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.000 tours reactionary to this. Well, wait a minute, we had 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.360 no idea five years before, like in Greg Norman was 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.120 going to try this. So yes, we reacted to an 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.640 uprising of the players. Two years ago we had no, no, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.760 really idea that. Well, three years ago and no idea 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.080 of COVID was coming. So yes, we were reactionary to 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.640 covid and we were reactionary to this latest challenge. But 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.280 what we're we I say we because I'm I'm a 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.120 little bit on the inside, not like I was on 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.520 when I was on the board, but the veteran players, 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.160 former board members, the people that talked to, the J 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.280 Monahans and the Tim fincham's. We're building for the future, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.800 not for next year. We have to protect this system. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.640 So they threw out an interesting status this last couple 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.840 of weeks and I was one of the examples that 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.840 they used. I've made fifty eight million dollars comprehensive earnings 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:47.560 on the PGA tour, official money, unofficial money, retirement plan, 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:52.120 Fedex cut comprehensive earnings. If you had my career starting 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.160 right now, and I've been I've been using Um cam 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.400 young as my example. If Cam Young Has Davis loves career, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:07.320 he makes six hundred and fifteen million dollars. So the growth, 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.880 the growth and the business of the tour is working 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.200 and I'm trying Tiger Woods, Roy, mcelroy, guys on the 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.600 board now, Kevin Kissner, we're trying to protect that for 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.400 Jackson Bird, Jonathan's son, Tiger's son. So it's there for 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.240 them to have that opportunity, just like we did. And 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:32.840 that's why Tiger talks about legacy and records, because he 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.600 wants somebody to try to break his records or he 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.560 wants his kid to be able to play and try 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:45.160 to Chase Fred couples records. That's what golf is all about. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:49.560 We want to see these major winners compared to pass 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.400 major winners. Right Um, we want we want tiger to 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.120 break Jack's record. You know, that's that's the important thing. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.040 It's not how much money. And when you look at 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.840 live they say it's not about the money, but what 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.760 else is it about? It's all about the money. So well, 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.720 I think on the most personal level, no matter how 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.200 you feel about this thing degreed and the desire for 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.480 more and more and more in a narrow when so 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.960 much of the world doesn't even have enough, that's just 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.560 personally offensive to a lot of people, and I guess 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.480 I would. I'm not a guest, I would definitely put 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.760 myself in that category. It's like how much is enough? 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.800 I mean golf is a niche sport in the first place, 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:28.920 but let's put that aside for a second day. Of said, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.480 let me ask this. You've known Phil for probably thirty years, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:37.400 if not more. Um, you would phil were side by side. 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.240 Of course, you're both P J championship winners, working side 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.120 by side last year at the president's Scutt it's hard 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.440 to imagine someone on a higher high than he was 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.600 walking with amy and yeah, you know, just adored by 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.920 the players and by spectators and by everybody else. His 0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.520 life has fallen apart since then. Do you like we're 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.600 seeing the actual Phil Michelson now. How do how do you? 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.600 How does that play in your mind? The PHILM Michelson 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.679 that we thought we knew, the Til Michelson that you 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:14.520 actually knew, and what we're seeing now? Well, Um, Phil 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:20.080 is a great Um promoter actor. You know, he's Um. 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.600 He played the part as the Superhero of golf very well, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.960 but unfortunately, you know, we heard these rumors of problems, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:33.080 you know, and as in the background, and now they 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.720 seemed to come out more public. Um. And you see, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.879 every one of these players has a different reason for 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.440 going to live and Phils, apparently, was all all about 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.720 the money. You know, he's challenging, he always has challenged 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.040 the rules and regulations of the PGA tour. But the 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.919 PGA tour is what made Phil Mickelson famous. You know, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.000 if it's if it wasn't for the system where you 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.520 could get an exemption, and I'm into play and Um, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.840 he you know, he never went to q school. The 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.440 system worked for him and made him famous and put 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.119 him put him in the hall of fame. So No, Phil, 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.159 Phil's a troubled soul and he's had a lot of 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.640 friends like me, trying very hard to try to help him. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.480 Not About live and not about golf, but about Phil Nucholson. Um, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.760 you know, right now it's tragic that that none of 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.439 us can get him to take a phone call. You know, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.840 you've heard Fred's quotes. He's gone dark and, Um, we'll 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.840 not take a phone call. One of one of his 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.240 one of his really good friends, said, look, we've tried 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.639 as hard as we can. You know, eventually we have 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:47.000 to move on and it's unfortunately. I'm praying for Phil 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.719 and a lot of those guys that are my friends 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.879 that somehow something good, Um, can happen and turn this around. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:58.680 But you know, Tiger Woods had his problems a couple 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.800 of times and had to face the music and look 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.280 at him now. He's he's leader. He's bringing young players 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.840 to his home, he's he's mentoring guys, he's he's captaining teams. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.480 He agreed to be an assistant captain for me back 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:19.040 in Ryder Cup. And to your point, Phil left the 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.120 PGA championship year and a half ago as a golf hero. 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.120 Couldn't have been a bigger high. Dustin Johnson left whistling 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.080 straits an American golf hero, five and Oh, team leader, 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.800 veteran player. Has Dustin Johnson ever been on a bigger high? 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:41.440 And now he's, you know, Lance Armstrong like people are, 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.960 hands off, stay, stay away this guy. This guy's got 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:49.280 bad Karma. Um, Dustin did for a completely different reason. 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.359 Dustin got to a number where he said, look, I 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.280 can ride off into the sunset. I had a had 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.480 a wonderful conversation with Dustin about this whole thing before London. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.119 I have no problem with Dustin. He's honest with me. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.719 Now the rest of these guys are lying, Um Miss Truce, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:12.800 Um Deflecting, um conniving, and that's what that's what's so 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.679 sad is they're getting told things from somewhere, from Liv Golf, 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:23.600 that are just not true. And and our I can 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.680 watch him stand up there in the press commerce just 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.080 flat outline. Um. Greg Norman does it almost every time 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.639 he's on TV. He tells a lie. We're a closed shop, 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:38.720 he said the other day. Right, no, I know three 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.280 or four players that they're actively recruiting right now. Is 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.200 You're not a closed shop, um. So it's just it's 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.480 so sad that we've gotten to this point where we're 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.480 fighting amongst ourselves in a game that, you know, all 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.280 three of US respect because of the history and the legacy. Hey, 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.159 Bayern Nelson played two years to make enough money to 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.880 buy a farm. He was playing for money, but look 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:00.919 at his legacy. You know you want a bunch of 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.280 golf tournaments. Did A lot for charity. Helps support the 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.760 determinent analysis whole career. Sat on the first tea at 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.880 the masters and greeted new players and was was a 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.280 mentor in the game. Fred couples would take me to 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.280 his house. But he did play for money, but he 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:22.280 did it the right way. Your use of the Word 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.840 Karma is interesting. So, just as a thought exercise, let's 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:30.920 say that the live golfers win their uh all these 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:35.600 court battles, they are able to keep playing in tour events. You, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.280 as the President's Cup captain will have to decide if 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.399 you want to select some of them for your team. Potentially, 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.000 in this scenario, this hypothetical, would you? Would you automatically 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.760 discount them as candidates because you think that it would 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.520 be too divisive to to bring them onto your your 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.760 team of loyal PG tourment would not pick them? Um, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:56.919 I don't know if there's a way that they could be. 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.680 The court could force the tour to make them eligible. Um, 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.840 they'd have to get in the top six and points. 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.879 I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you with your hypothetical. They'd 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:10.800 have to play well in the playoffs, because none of 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:12.840 them are in the high enough, in the top six, 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.440 and then I can, I can be the bad guy 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.080 and not pick them. Um, so, hypothetically, even if, yes, 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.639 I don't see any way they're gonna play, a player 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:25.679 in the locker room. Yesterday, after all this news came out, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:27.800 because you know, I agree with all this, except for 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:29.480 the Ryder Cup, in the President's Cup, they ought to 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.439 be allowed to play. I said, you've never been in 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:36.199 our team room. We have guys in past years we 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.520 didn't want in our team room because they were a 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.159 little bit divisive, not a team guy. We're out for themselves. 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:48.399 Now we know who they are. There's something they're not 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.560 coming in our team room. I said I would. I 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.600 would walk out before I had to have three or 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:55.280 four of those guys on my team if I was 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.960 a player. That's what I keep saying. Unfortunately, the article 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.400 came out that I said the US Open Strike. That's 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.760 not what I said. I was talking about because I 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.840 knew last week at the rocket mortgage this lawsuit was coming. 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.600 I said, if they sue and they are allowed to 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:16.160 play in the Fedex playoffs, one thing the players can 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:18.600 do is just say fine, if those guys are playing, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.879 I'm not playing. Now I know I will not name names. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.040