Speaker 1: But then in ninety four, like you said, when he
Speaker 1: brought up the world tour. It got all the way
Speaker 1: to the point where Arnold Palmer called a meeting in
Speaker 1: his office at Bay Hill and Greg didn't want to
Speaker 1: go and they told me, you gotta go tell Norman,
Speaker 1: since your board member, and you know I'm telling him
Speaker 1: he has to come to this meeting. So I told
Speaker 1: him and Arnold Eloquently said this is over. Put another
Speaker 1: log on the fire. Nobody here is get the time. Hello,
Speaker 1: this is Alan Schipnuk, back for another fire drill podcast.
Speaker 1: I am joined by Michael Bamberger in Philadelphia and Davis
Speaker 1: love the third, who was kind enough to call in
Speaker 1: from the Windham championship down in North Carolina. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about the big news at hand, which is the
Speaker 1: ongoing civil war between the PGA tour and live golf,
Speaker 1: and of course that's now reached the litigation stage and
Speaker 1: a lot of intrigue to discuss. Before we get to that,
Speaker 1: just a quick shout out to our sponsors who make
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Speaker 1: keep the lights on and doing cool stuff like this.
Speaker 1: So let's get to the conversation. All right, hello, this
Speaker 1: is Alan Schipnuk, back for another fire drill podcast. Delighted
Speaker 1: to be joined by Michael Bamberger and Aldelphia and Davis.
Speaker 1: Loved the third coming at us from what we used
Speaker 1: to call it the Greater Greensboro Open right, but now
Speaker 1: it's slightly different. G G oh, yes, now it's the window.
Speaker 1: It's the window, it's the window. Davis, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here. Um Um, of course you and
Speaker 1: Michael Go way, way back. Michael was trying to locate
Speaker 1: the book that you wrote together on the bookshelf behind
Speaker 1: them but, in typical fashion, could not locate it. But Um,
Speaker 1: uh so we we want to talk about this current
Speaker 1: moment in golf and you were pretty outspoken in your
Speaker 1: press conference there at the window. Um, but I thought
Speaker 1: I'd be helpful for a lot of listeners don't remember
Speaker 1: the world tour of the early nineties and you were
Speaker 1: one of the biggest stars in the game. Certainly you
Speaker 1: were part of those conversations and even going further back when,
Speaker 1: when you came on tour six you know, Greg Norman
Speaker 1: was emerging as a real force in the sports so
Speaker 1: you've you've known norman for a long time and and
Speaker 1: uh so that relationship was are these world tor negotiations
Speaker 1: in the early nineties. Can can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about your your how your relationship with Greg
Speaker 1: as evolved through the years and and relive that the
Speaker 1: world tour days of the early nineties? Well, the early
Speaker 1: relationship was greg was trying, just trying to beat him.
Speaker 1: You know, I was. I was a guy trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, come out on tour and and and run
Speaker 1: up against the Greg Great White Shark you know Darrell.
Speaker 1: He hit miraculous shots and unbelievable monker shots and beat
Speaker 1: us there every year. and Um, when you're at the master's,
Speaker 1: I was in the hunt on Sunday and said well,
Speaker 1: if I can, I was playing with Greg. If I
Speaker 1: could just beat Greg, you know I'm gonna win the tournament.
Speaker 1: And I beat Greg and shot sixty six and I
Speaker 1: didn't win the tournament. Um. So I ran up against
Speaker 1: him a lot Um, I would say, you know, cordial,
Speaker 1: um relationship, competitive relationship. But then in ninety four, like
Speaker 1: you said, when he brought up the world tour. That
Speaker 1: was during one of my many terms on the board
Speaker 1: and I was amongst the fight Um with him on
Speaker 1: that subject and some of the other players that he
Speaker 1: had kind of gathered around him to try to to
Speaker 1: to make a run at the tour, to do something different.
Speaker 1: It got all the way to the point where Um
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer called a meeting in his office at Bay
Speaker 1: Hill of the top thirty or forty players and Tim
Speaker 1: fincham obviously was there. Our commissioner and Greg didn't want
Speaker 1: to go and they told me you gotta go tell Norman,
Speaker 1: since your board member and you know him. Telling him
Speaker 1: he has to come to this meeting. So I told
Speaker 1: him and basically, you know the one time I twisted
Speaker 1: his arm. So you have to go to this meeting.
Speaker 1: You have to listen to what what Arnolds gonna say,
Speaker 1: because I don't go to meetings and I don't know
Speaker 1: what it's about. You know what it's about. It's about
Speaker 1: the world tour and I'll tell you what he's gonna
Speaker 1: say when we get to the top of the stairs.
Speaker 1: And we we walked in, I said Arno was gonna
Speaker 1: tell you this is over, and Arnold's and Tim both
Speaker 1: spoke and said this is not the right thing to do. Um,
Speaker 1: we can make changes to the P G A tour
Speaker 1: if we want to, but we're gonna do it in house.
Speaker 1: And Arnold Eloquently said Jack and I could have taken
Speaker 1: ownership in the PGA tour when we helped start it,
Speaker 1: but we didn't. We set it up to run like
Speaker 1: it's running now. It's running great. We're at a good
Speaker 1: point in the game and this is over. And my
Speaker 1: relationship with Greg hasn't been any good since. Um. We
Speaker 1: had a lot of discussions or arguments back then and
Speaker 1: my position is still the same. If you work within
Speaker 1: the system. Um, great things can happen if you get
Speaker 1: outside the system and break the rules. Look, look, look
Speaker 1: where they are now. I mean that that's quite a moment.
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I've been in Arnold's office. Uh, did you
Speaker 1: really have three dozen dudes crowded in there? Yeah, packed
Speaker 1: packed in there. Um, you know, it was whoever the
Speaker 1: top thirty, forty guys that were in the field that week.
Speaker 1: And you know there was obviously the players of you know,
Speaker 1: the Fred couples or the VJ sings or the Phil Nicholson's.
Speaker 1: Those guys are who we're driving the bus of the
Speaker 1: PGA tour, you know, and that's who Greg was after
Speaker 1: the top thirty, and also, Um, who the commissioner was protecting.
Speaker 1: And you know, I called Jay Monahan back, Um, late October,
Speaker 1: early November last year and I said we need an
Speaker 1: a palmer right now, don't we? And he said yes,
Speaker 1: we do. and Um, you know, back then it was
Speaker 1: really just Phil Nicholson we were concerned about and trying
Speaker 1: to help, and Jay was asking my help to Um,
Speaker 1: you know, to get close to Phil and say, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a way out of this. If if you're willing
Speaker 1: and so like. Yesterday was breaking news this lawsuit. Well,
Speaker 1: to those of us on the inside, or the guys
Speaker 1: on the board, are the staff of the tour it's
Speaker 1: not breaking news. It's been coming for over a year
Speaker 1: and they've been telling players for over a year. If
Speaker 1: you break these rules, if you sign up with this league, Um,
Speaker 1: these are your options. You're either suspended or your band
Speaker 1: for life. Those are only to two options. So to
Speaker 1: say that his breaking news amongst the top players that
Speaker 1: either went or I have not gone. It's not breaking news.
Speaker 1: It's unfortunately, this has been dragging on for a year.
Speaker 1: David's Great Norman. I've had a lot of experience with him,
Speaker 1: nothing like yours, you know, in a different way. I
Speaker 1: find him to be a charismatic person in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways and, uh, he's intense. He gets right in
Speaker 1: your face. I'll just sell you look quick aside. One
Speaker 1: of my first assignments in sports illustrated was mark mccomber
Speaker 1: and Greg Norman got in this feud over whether macomber
Speaker 1: had picked up a live piece of grass, basically in
Speaker 1: his line at fire someone one year, I think it was,
Speaker 1: and Macomber said that he had and Norman refused to
Speaker 1: sign his scorecard and uh, and turned to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: When I was reporting the story, Um, Norman said, you
Speaker 1: know a lot of brother guys have I troubled with him?
Speaker 1: You should call day this. So I called Davis and
Speaker 1: I said, Davis, have you had probably problems of Macomber?
Speaker 1: And David said, you know, I've heard of things, but no,
Speaker 1: I've never. I've never had any problems with macomber myself.
Speaker 1: So then I reported that back to Norman and Norman said, Ah,
Speaker 1: you calling Davis another Yah, but it's bizarre because no,
Speaker 1: not at all. Did exactly what you told me to do. UH,
Speaker 1: but anyway. But but the reason I say that is
Speaker 1: because Norman said to me early on, you know, more
Speaker 1: than half a year ago, how do you feel about
Speaker 1: this thing? And I said, if the funding were from
Speaker 1: someone other than the Saudis, if I would feel one way,
Speaker 1: but because it is from the Saudis, I feel I
Speaker 1: feel another and I just wonder it's it's such a
Speaker 1: big subject. I'm doing the exact thing I said I
Speaker 1: wouldn't do, going to the biggest, broadest part of it.
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering to what degree Davis is the combination
Speaker 1: of Norman, who's such an outside figure and you're such
Speaker 1: an inside figure, and the saw the money. How much
Speaker 1: emotion is that generating for you personally? That's a great question.
Speaker 1: So the Saudi question is one one issue and outside
Speaker 1: of the United States, the rest of the world really
Speaker 1: doesn't have the problem with the Saudis that the United
Speaker 1: States does, or the public. You know, obviously big corporations
Speaker 1: do business with the Saudis from the United States. Um,
Speaker 1: there's there's tour sponsors that do business with the Saudies. Um,
Speaker 1: if you if you just completely cut out the Saudias,
Speaker 1: the Chinese and, you know, half of South America, we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have very many sponsors or business going on in
Speaker 1: this country. So that's a that is a problem. And
Speaker 1: then Greg Norman is a problem because he's tried to
Speaker 1: do this twice. We've been investigated by the federal government
Speaker 1: twice for collusion or anti trust. Why? Because Greg Norman,
Speaker 1: who's a famous offer, got up and said the tour
Speaker 1: is cheating me and is holding me back from earning money,
Speaker 1: and there they won't let us do what we want
Speaker 1: to do. That's the only reason we've been investigated not
Speaker 1: because we're not successful or a group of players are
Speaker 1: complaining or we we went out on strike. No, it's
Speaker 1: because of Great Norman. So those two are issues. But
Speaker 1: let's just say Um Elon Musk decided to sponsor this
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of money and a great plan.
Speaker 1: It threatens the structure of the PGA tour to take
Speaker 1: forty or fifty or thirty of the top players and
Speaker 1: say you can play over here fourteen weeks. They'RE gonna
Speaker 1: play next year and then you can come back and
Speaker 1: Cherry pick the really good tournaments on the PGA tour
Speaker 1: and the and the majors and and not support the
Speaker 1: rest of the PGA tour. We have whatever forty events.
Speaker 1: There's rules. You have to play fifteen to be a member.
Speaker 1: We've had that rule before, Greg Norman. And the great
Speaker 1: point that Jay struggling because he gets beat up in
Speaker 1: the media. Yet you can ask you all these questions, Shamn,
Speaker 1: and our commissioner. He said something great yesterday. These rules,
Speaker 1: regulations are made by the players for the players. That's
Speaker 1: the point that the courts or the public or the
Speaker 1: players that left there. You know who's making the rules now.
Speaker 1: Rory mcelroy he's on the board of the tour. He
Speaker 1: came from Ireland, the little kid like Greg Norman. They
Speaker 1: wanted to come to America and be a superhero in
Speaker 1: golf and he became one. And instead of challenging the
Speaker 1: system and going off with somebody else, with with live golf,
Speaker 1: he's working within the system to change the rules. Now
Speaker 1: he and some other players have a groundswell of all right,
Speaker 1: maybe we do need to make some changes. Let's work
Speaker 1: with the commissioner and solve this. That's how it gets done.
Speaker 1: I've seen it happen. How many times have we changed
Speaker 1: the Fedex Cup or the qualifying system or um the schedule?
Speaker 1: That comes from the players, not not from staff. So anyways,
Speaker 1: the threat to the structure of our business is the
Speaker 1: bigger issue. That's the court battle. The court battle that
Speaker 1: in oversalities are Greg Norman. Is the growth of the
Speaker 1: PGA tour over the last twenty years under this system
Speaker 1: of rules written by the players. Is it working? Yes,
Speaker 1: we've grown exponentially in the last twenty years. I mean
Speaker 1: in fairness to Norman, I'm going back to I mean
Speaker 1: as a result of that that challenge for the structure,
Speaker 1: we got the world golf championships, the President's Cup, like
Speaker 1: there was. There were some positive changes and and the
Speaker 1: tour became more global. That is there. Is Right. But
Speaker 1: if Greg Norman and Vj Singh and whoever else he
Speaker 1: had on his list had come to the board, I
Speaker 1: was on the board at the time, had come to
Speaker 1: the board and said we want this, and in fact
Speaker 1: I have twenty two players that are willing to go,
Speaker 1: this is what we want that, they would have gotten
Speaker 1: the same result. World Golf Championships. Um, the President's Cup
Speaker 1: started in ninety four. So it was yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it was. It was gonna happen. It might have happened anyway,
Speaker 1: but I probably got fast tracked faster, like in like
Speaker 1: in one year. But yeah, but you you make an
Speaker 1: excellent point and a lot of players say, well, the
Speaker 1: tours reactionary to this. Well, wait a minute, we had
Speaker 1: no idea five years before, like in Greg Norman was
Speaker 1: going to try this. So yes, we reacted to an
Speaker 1: uprising of the players. Two years ago we had no, no,
Speaker 1: really idea that. Well, three years ago and no idea
Speaker 1: of COVID was coming. So yes, we were reactionary to
Speaker 1: covid and we were reactionary to this latest challenge. But
Speaker 1: what we're we I say we because I'm I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit on the inside, not like I was on
Speaker 1: when I was on the board, but the veteran players,
Speaker 1: former board members, the people that talked to, the J
Speaker 1: Monahans and the Tim fincham's. We're building for the future,
Speaker 1: not for next year. We have to protect this system.
Speaker 1: So they threw out an interesting status this last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks and I was one of the examples that
Speaker 1: they used. I've made fifty eight million dollars comprehensive earnings
Speaker 1: on the PGA tour, official money, unofficial money, retirement plan,
Speaker 1: Fedex cut comprehensive earnings. If you had my career starting
Speaker 1: right now, and I've been I've been using Um cam
Speaker 1: young as my example. If Cam Young Has Davis loves career,
Speaker 1: he makes six hundred and fifteen million dollars. So the growth,
Speaker 1: the growth and the business of the tour is working
Speaker 1: and I'm trying Tiger Woods, Roy, mcelroy, guys on the
Speaker 1: board now, Kevin Kissner, we're trying to protect that for
Speaker 1: Jackson Bird, Jonathan's son, Tiger's son. So it's there for
Speaker 1: them to have that opportunity, just like we did. And
Speaker 1: that's why Tiger talks about legacy and records, because he
Speaker 1: wants somebody to try to break his records or he
Speaker 1: wants his kid to be able to play and try
Speaker 1: to Chase Fred couples records. That's what golf is all about.
Speaker 1: We want to see these major winners compared to pass
Speaker 1: major winners. Right Um, we want we want tiger to
Speaker 1: break Jack's record. You know, that's that's the important thing.
Speaker 1: It's not how much money. And when you look at
Speaker 1: live they say it's not about the money, but what
Speaker 1: else is it about? It's all about the money. So well,
Speaker 1: I think on the most personal level, no matter how
Speaker 1: you feel about this thing degreed and the desire for
Speaker 1: more and more and more in a narrow when so
Speaker 1: much of the world doesn't even have enough, that's just
Speaker 1: personally offensive to a lot of people, and I guess
Speaker 1: I would. I'm not a guest, I would definitely put
Speaker 1: myself in that category. It's like how much is enough?
Speaker 1: I mean golf is a niche sport in the first place,
Speaker 1: but let's put that aside for a second day. Of said,
Speaker 1: let me ask this. You've known Phil for probably thirty years,
Speaker 1: if not more. Um, you would phil were side by side.
Speaker 1: Of course, you're both P J championship winners, working side
Speaker 1: by side last year at the president's Scutt it's hard
Speaker 1: to imagine someone on a higher high than he was
Speaker 1: walking with amy and yeah, you know, just adored by
Speaker 1: the players and by spectators and by everybody else. His
Speaker 1: life has fallen apart since then. Do you like we're
Speaker 1: seeing the actual Phil Michelson now. How do how do you?
Speaker 1: How does that play in your mind? The PHILM Michelson
Speaker 1: that we thought we knew, the Til Michelson that you
Speaker 1: actually knew, and what we're seeing now? Well, Um, Phil
Speaker 1: is a great Um promoter actor. You know, he's Um.
Speaker 1: He played the part as the Superhero of golf very well,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, you know, we heard these rumors of problems,
Speaker 1: you know, and as in the background, and now they
Speaker 1: seemed to come out more public. Um. And you see,
Speaker 1: every one of these players has a different reason for
Speaker 1: going to live and Phils, apparently, was all all about
Speaker 1: the money. You know, he's challenging, he always has challenged
Speaker 1: the rules and regulations of the PGA tour. But the
Speaker 1: PGA tour is what made Phil Mickelson famous. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's if it wasn't for the system where you
Speaker 1: could get an exemption, and I'm into play and Um,
Speaker 1: he you know, he never went to q school. The
Speaker 1: system worked for him and made him famous and put
Speaker 1: him put him in the hall of fame. So No, Phil,
Speaker 1: Phil's a troubled soul and he's had a lot of
Speaker 1: friends like me, trying very hard to try to help him.
Speaker 1: Not About live and not about golf, but about Phil Nucholson. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, right now it's tragic that that none of
Speaker 1: us can get him to take a phone call. You know,
Speaker 1: you've heard Fred's quotes. He's gone dark and, Um, we'll
Speaker 1: not take a phone call. One of one of his
Speaker 1: one of his really good friends, said, look, we've tried
Speaker 1: as hard as we can. You know, eventually we have
Speaker 1: to move on and it's unfortunately. I'm praying for Phil
Speaker 1: and a lot of those guys that are my friends
Speaker 1: that somehow something good, Um, can happen and turn this around.
Speaker 1: But you know, Tiger Woods had his problems a couple
Speaker 1: of times and had to face the music and look
Speaker 1: at him now. He's he's leader. He's bringing young players
Speaker 1: to his home, he's he's mentoring guys, he's he's captaining teams.
Speaker 1: He agreed to be an assistant captain for me back
Speaker 1: in Ryder Cup. And to your point, Phil left the
Speaker 1: PGA championship year and a half ago as a golf hero.
Speaker 1: Couldn't have been a bigger high. Dustin Johnson left whistling
Speaker 1: straits an American golf hero, five and Oh, team leader,
Speaker 1: veteran player. Has Dustin Johnson ever been on a bigger high?
Speaker 1: And now he's, you know, Lance Armstrong like people are,
Speaker 1: hands off, stay, stay away this guy. This guy's got
Speaker 1: bad Karma. Um, Dustin did for a completely different reason.
Speaker 1: Dustin got to a number where he said, look, I
Speaker 1: can ride off into the sunset. I had a had
Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation with Dustin about this whole thing before London.
Speaker 1: I have no problem with Dustin. He's honest with me.
Speaker 1: Now the rest of these guys are lying, Um Miss Truce,
Speaker 1: Um Deflecting, um conniving, and that's what that's what's so
Speaker 1: sad is they're getting told things from somewhere, from Liv Golf,
Speaker 1: that are just not true. And and our I can
Speaker 1: watch him stand up there in the press commerce just
Speaker 1: flat outline. Um. Greg Norman does it almost every time
Speaker 1: he's on TV. He tells a lie. We're a closed shop,
Speaker 1: he said the other day. Right, no, I know three
Speaker 1: or four players that they're actively recruiting right now. Is
Speaker 1: You're not a closed shop, um. So it's just it's
Speaker 1: so sad that we've gotten to this point where we're
Speaker 1: fighting amongst ourselves in a game that, you know, all
Speaker 1: three of US respect because of the history and the legacy. Hey,
Speaker 1: Bayern Nelson played two years to make enough money to
Speaker 1: buy a farm. He was playing for money, but look
Speaker 1: at his legacy. You know you want a bunch of
Speaker 1: golf tournaments. Did A lot for charity. Helps support the
Speaker 1: determinent analysis whole career. Sat on the first tea at
Speaker 1: the masters and greeted new players and was was a
Speaker 1: mentor in the game. Fred couples would take me to
Speaker 1: his house. But he did play for money, but he
Speaker 1: did it the right way. Your use of the Word
Speaker 1: Karma is interesting. So, just as a thought exercise, let's
Speaker 1: say that the live golfers win their uh all these
Speaker 1: court battles, they are able to keep playing in tour events. You,
Speaker 1: as the President's Cup captain will have to decide if
Speaker 1: you want to select some of them for your team. Potentially,
Speaker 1: in this scenario, this hypothetical, would you? Would you automatically
Speaker 1: discount them as candidates because you think that it would
Speaker 1: be too divisive to to bring them onto your your
Speaker 1: team of loyal PG tourment would not pick them? Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a way that they could be.
Speaker 1: The court could force the tour to make them eligible. Um,
Speaker 1: they'd have to get in the top six and points.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you with your hypothetical. They'd
Speaker 1: have to play well in the playoffs, because none of
Speaker 1: them are in the high enough, in the top six,
Speaker 1: and then I can, I can be the bad guy
Speaker 1: and not pick them. Um, so, hypothetically, even if, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't see any way they're gonna play, a player
Speaker 1: in the locker room. Yesterday, after all this news came out,
Speaker 1: because you know, I agree with all this, except for
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup, in the President's Cup, they ought to
Speaker 1: be allowed to play. I said, you've never been in
Speaker 1: our team room. We have guys in past years we
Speaker 1: didn't want in our team room because they were a
Speaker 1: little bit divisive, not a team guy. We're out for themselves.
Speaker 1: Now we know who they are. There's something they're not
Speaker 1: coming in our team room. I said I would. I
Speaker 1: would walk out before I had to have three or
Speaker 1: four of those guys on my team if I was
Speaker 1: a player. That's what I keep saying. Unfortunately, the article
Speaker 1: came out that I said the US Open Strike. That's
Speaker 1: not what I said. I was talking about because I
Speaker 1: knew last week at the rocket mortgage this lawsuit was coming.
Speaker 1: I said, if they sue and they are allowed to
Speaker 1: play in the Fedex playoffs, one thing the players can
Speaker 1: do is just say fine, if those guys are playing,
Speaker 1: I'm not playing. Now I know I will not name names.
Speaker 1: I know that there's five or six influential players that
Speaker 1: totally agree. I didn't. I'm not the first one to
Speaker 1: come up with us, but we sit with another guy
Speaker 1: and go, he and I think that we should not
Speaker 1: play the fedex, but those guys are allowed to play.
Speaker 1: What do you think? And he goes, if if everybody
Speaker 1: else is on board, I won't play. We're Madam, it's somebody.
Speaker 1: Yesterday I said don't go on the locker room. Everybody's
Speaker 1: all piste off. You know we're defending our way of
Speaker 1: life and what Max Holmers said it best. You can't
Speaker 1: buy my dream there. There they're suing our dream and
Speaker 1: it could hurt our business and down the road, our
Speaker 1: ability to make money. If they win and the structure
Speaker 1: falls and our rules fall apart in court, we will
Speaker 1: make less money on the PGA tour. That's guaranteed. Sponsors
Speaker 1: will drop. You know, we may have to go to
Speaker 1: a tax organization rather than a tax exempt organization. That
Speaker 1: means our expenses go up. You know, it's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: People just don't understand how big we're. A billion, five
Speaker 1: billion six business this year. It's a big business. The
Speaker 1: structure is working. We paid out, WE'RE gonna pay out
Speaker 1: of that to the players in this year. So we
Speaker 1: make a lot of money and we give a lot
Speaker 1: of money away. Nobody gets to keep it. It's where
Speaker 1: tax exempt, nonprofit. Give it, give it all away. So, Um,
Speaker 1: I I don't want them on my team. Um, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of guys. I just said to this player,
Speaker 1: I said, can you imagine Justin Thomas or Jordan speak
Speaker 1: one those guys on their team? No, they're supporting the
Speaker 1: PGA tour. That these guys aren't and are suing them.
Speaker 1: I don't see it happening. I mean it's an interesting
Speaker 1: there's just really quick just to follow and then the floor.
Speaker 1: The floor is yours, um, but you know, I've been
Speaker 1: to some of these live events. In fact, I think
Speaker 1: me and Bob Harrig are the only reports have been
Speaker 1: to all three so far because I'm it's a big
Speaker 1: story and I'm trying to understand it. and Um, for
Speaker 1: the live golfers it's a business decision and for the
Speaker 1: tour players it's very personal. There's a big divide here
Speaker 1: and I guess I'm trying to understand because certainly there's
Speaker 1: plenty of PG tour members, and you mentioned rory before.
Speaker 1: He's played on multiple tours and he's he's gone to
Speaker 1: China and he's taken appearance fees and there's there's plenty
Speaker 1: of golfers who have tour membership still who have played
Speaker 1: all around the world on different tours. And the live
Speaker 1: guy is that's their point is this is just another
Speaker 1: global tour and I don't I don't understand why everyone's
Speaker 1: so mad at us and why we're essentially being persecuted.
Speaker 1: Now that's my word not there's but I'm interpreting what
Speaker 1: they're saying and, Um, what was your response to that?
Speaker 1: And I've said this and it obviously doesn't get out there.
Speaker 1: They are more than welcome to go do that. There
Speaker 1: they are. They are not independent contractors, their free agents.
Speaker 1: They can go play. Greg Norman could have stayed in
Speaker 1: Australian played the Australian tour. You know, you can go
Speaker 1: play the Asian tour if you want. You don't have
Speaker 1: to play the PGA tour. But to put it as
Speaker 1: simply as I can is they want to play fourteen
Speaker 1: live events next year and they want to come and
Speaker 1: play four or five million dollar events on the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: That's what they want to do. That that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: You have to play events on our tour to be
Speaker 1: a member, to have access to the players chieved. How
Speaker 1: do you just go look up? How how you getting
Speaker 1: the players team and hip on the Fedex all these
Speaker 1: other things to get in the field right? Well, if
Speaker 1: you'RE gonna go play somewhere else, you you don't qualify
Speaker 1: for the Players Championship. But that's what they're asking for.
Speaker 1: So they're free. They signed up at the beginning of
Speaker 1: this year. We joined the PGA tour every every year
Speaker 1: we joined the PGA of America. Every year we pay
Speaker 1: our dues. They signed up to play under these rules.
Speaker 1: And the simple example is if I didn't commit by
Speaker 1: Friday last week, I can't play this week in the
Speaker 1: window championship. Right. What if I say like Phil Nicholson,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm a hall of Famer and I'm a
Speaker 1: life member. I just decided on Tuesday I want to play,
Speaker 1: you have to let me play. Well, no, you, you
Speaker 1: broke the rule. You you didn't commit last week and
Speaker 1: if you don't play fifteen you don't get your retirement plan.
Speaker 1: And if will Zalaturus was a non member, right, remember
Speaker 1: the crazy year he had. We had to keep a
Speaker 1: list on the Ryder Cup, the Salatorus list, because he
Speaker 1: wasn't making points, but he was going to end up
Speaker 1: eligible to play and we could have picked him but
Speaker 1: he didn't have any points because he was not a member.
Speaker 1: That's the issues that you join a league and you
Speaker 1: have to play by the rules. Or if Roy mclroy's
Speaker 1: playing the European tour and he qualifies for the player's Championship,
Speaker 1: he can play right or for the PGA championship or
Speaker 1: the US Open off of his but the lift tour
Speaker 1: doesn't have any access because they're not playing real golf tournaments.
Speaker 1: They're not getting more ranking points so that at every
Speaker 1: term the Arnold Palmer has a different access than the
Speaker 1: memorial right. So those guys don't fit any of the
Speaker 1: categories that they want to play in. Right now, you
Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying? They yes, I do. Certainly there's
Speaker 1: there's lots of rules. I guess that the next question is,
Speaker 1: do the rules as are constructed now makes sense? Are
Speaker 1: they sacristaying where we could change the rules to find
Speaker 1: a way another great point, you know, to make this
Speaker 1: work and reunify the game. So you can't. You can
Speaker 1: change the rules. Um, we change the rules for Sevy,
Speaker 1: Bernard Um Monty, that that crew, to make it easier
Speaker 1: for them, for European players, to get on access to
Speaker 1: the tour. We lowered it. I want to I want
Speaker 1: to say it was twenty and then it was eighteen
Speaker 1: and then it was fifteen minimum. Um, we because of
Speaker 1: the world golf championships, that kind of thing. We said,
Speaker 1: all right, you can play, we'll count the world golf
Speaker 1: championships will count the majors and then you'll get to
Speaker 1: your fifteen a lot easier. Um, yes, the rules can change,
Speaker 1: and that's what the point of this whole thing is.
Speaker 1: We can change the rules however what we want. Well,
Speaker 1: if a hundred and fifty voting members decide we want
Speaker 1: to box the live golfers out forever, then you might
Speaker 1: be collusion or anti trust. But the players making the rules. Now. Um,
Speaker 1: we just changed access to the Arnold Palmer, the tiger
Speaker 1: woods the memorial and gave them three year exemption rather
Speaker 1: than the two years we made. The players made those rules,
Speaker 1: we voted on them. So yes, we can change them
Speaker 1: however we want. But we're looking at selling to fedex
Speaker 1: a six sixty million dollar ten year package. We're in
Speaker 1: the middle of right. We sold it to them. They
Speaker 1: were assuming that they were gonna have Dustin Johnson and
Speaker 1: those kind of type players weren't gonna go anywhere else. Well,
Speaker 1: those guys went somewhere else. So if I'm Fedex, I'm
Speaker 1: going we'll wait a minute. I'm not getting the same product.
Speaker 1: They're hurting our business, so they can't come back and
Speaker 1: charity pick our business, since they're hurting our business. And
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of semantics, but Roy, mclroy, it's
Speaker 1: worked out for him and Sergio Garcia and Paul Casey
Speaker 1: and name some others. Um that they play both tours
Speaker 1: and they play the Ryder Cup. When they play that,
Speaker 1: they rory wins the Fedex cup twice. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the system works. If you're a great player in Europe
Speaker 1: and you want to play both tours, Luke Donald, it works. Um,
Speaker 1: it can always get better. The world rankings can always
Speaker 1: get better. Um, I don't like the new fall schedule
Speaker 1: of going forward in my tournaments in the fall. Um,
Speaker 1: I hope that gets better, but I'm gonna work within
Speaker 1: the tour. I'M NOT gonna sell it to live. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work within the tour to make my tournament
Speaker 1: fit and give money to charity and be a PGA
Speaker 1: tour event. Davis, I'd love to get your take on
Speaker 1: Patrick Reed and this whole thing. The UH, the Phil
Speaker 1: Tiger divide has never been greater. When Patrick Reed was
Speaker 1: coming up on tour and he was Monday qualifying into
Speaker 1: these things. Is wearning the rich shirt and the black
Speaker 1: trousers on Sunday and sort of hanging on everything that
Speaker 1: that tiger was doing. He was very much a tiger
Speaker 1: accolite and tiger picked him for his President's Cup team
Speaker 1: in Melbourne. Um, the week before he had what I
Speaker 1: would call a flat out cheating episode right there on
Speaker 1: TV for anybody to see. UH, tiger could have buried him.
Speaker 1: Of course he couldn't really, because he was gonna be
Speaker 1: on his team the next the next week. I'm just wondering,
Speaker 1: with this long preamble, I would have thought that Patrick read,
Speaker 1: you know, Captain America on these Rider Cup teams and
Speaker 1: all the rest and so much of tiger. I would
Speaker 1: have thought he would have been lockstep with tiger. Um.
Speaker 1: So he's actually a little surprised to see him go
Speaker 1: um and it's kind of realized. It makes you realize
Speaker 1: that you know the people that you think you know
Speaker 1: you don't know. But Anyway, I just wondered what is
Speaker 1: your take on Patrick Reid's relationship with tiger and Patrick
Speaker 1: read going down this path that he's going? Well, the
Speaker 1: thing is that most of what I've heard from talked
Speaker 1: to a few of them and heard about some of them.
Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't ask Tiger Woods or veteran players.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this? They didn't ask Um,
Speaker 1: the people that you and I would ask their opinion
Speaker 1: of Um. What do you think ought to do in
Speaker 1: this situation? You know, they really just they took the
Speaker 1: money and what you have to understand is from their side,
Speaker 1: the people that are paying them the money are telling
Speaker 1: them there's no way you can lose in court, there's
Speaker 1: no way they can keep you from playing, there's no
Speaker 1: way the masters is going to say you can't come
Speaker 1: to the past champions dinner, Um, and maybe you won't
Speaker 1: even get to play. Um. They're being fed so much stuff,
Speaker 1: but it sounds really good. If you're offered ten or
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty or a hundred million dollars, you're starting
Speaker 1: to believe them. But Um, you know, Patrick Reed, Um
Speaker 1: Captain America loves, you know, loves the Ryder Cup, loves
Speaker 1: the President's Cup, fired up about it. Bubba Watson has
Speaker 1: said it publicly. My my dream is to be a
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup captain and be in the hall of fame.
Speaker 1: They have been told for a year at two player meetings,
Speaker 1: if you joined this league you are jeopardizing your chance
Speaker 1: to play on the PGA tour to play in the
Speaker 1: Presence Cup, you could lose your status on the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: Therefore you would not be eligible for the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: They knew all this going in and willingly took the
Speaker 1: money and left and now are suing us because they
Speaker 1: don't no. We explained to you. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was in a lot of team rooms with Patrick
Speaker 1: Reid and Bubba Watson and guys like that. Phil Nickolson.
Speaker 1: This is the best week of my life. You know,
Speaker 1: this great experience. I love you. Guys teary eyed and
Speaker 1: you just think, like Max Homma said, somebody bought their dream.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's unfortunate, but every one of those guys,
Speaker 1: and I don't know Patrick that well, you know Charles Howell, okay,
Speaker 1: he's just past six PGA tour starts. Um, he's looking
Speaker 1: like he's wearing down, tired of the of the battle,
Speaker 1: even though he's still is one of the best drivers
Speaker 1: of a golf ball I've ever seen. But Charles sees
Speaker 1: a way to cash out to right. Notice that he's
Speaker 1: not on the lawsuit. He's not named. Charles, I think
Speaker 1: just wants the money and let me go away. Um,
Speaker 1: whereas you know, Hudson Swofford is suing because if he
Speaker 1: doesn't sue and live blows up, he's got nowhere to
Speaker 1: play golf. He's he's going to get banned. So everybody
Speaker 1: has a different reason, but that reason, Um, they have
Speaker 1: a different reason that they took the money. They're just
Speaker 1: taking the money. And let's just be honest. You know,
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson found a number that he's willing to not
Speaker 1: be a ryder cut captain or or not get maybe
Speaker 1: not get invited back to the masters. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty million and Bryson is the same thing, um.
Speaker 1: But they're they're also being told that there's a chance
Speaker 1: that we're gonna win in court and you guys can
Speaker 1: go right back to it. I kind of just follow
Speaker 1: up on that for one Christian Davison, never had a
Speaker 1: chance to ask this before two of the most famous
Speaker 1: patrick great episodes. I think that Dur was way too
Speaker 1: soft on him, the one in San Diego and the one,
Speaker 1: and you know, in the Bahamas. I'm just wondering what,
Speaker 1: without going to the INS and out, so what actually happened?
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering about your overall uh take on those
Speaker 1: two events. Well, if, Um, if you keep having to
Speaker 1: explain it and not apologize for it but defend it,
Speaker 1: then you probably broke the rule. and where they're smoke,
Speaker 1: there's fired, it isn't those aren't the only two instances.
Speaker 1: You know, he came to the tour with a reputation
Speaker 1: Um like that. And you know, really good golf people
Speaker 1: tend to to give you a pass on your your
Speaker 1: attitude or your demeanor or or your honesty if you're
Speaker 1: a really good golfer. And I think, Um, I think
Speaker 1: he got a he gotta pass. You know, sometimes the
Speaker 1: rules officials, Um, the tour doesn't stand up enough. You know, UM,
Speaker 1: obviously they're standing up against this lift thing pretty hard.
Speaker 1: But you know, people bring up the VJ Singh things. Why?
Speaker 1: Why didn't the tour ban him? You know, he sued
Speaker 1: the Tour for defamation of character. Um, there there's a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of things where we could have
Speaker 1: stood up a little stronger, and maybe maybe the Patrick
Speaker 1: Reed thing was one of them. But Um, you know,
Speaker 1: basically you would have had to pull him aside and
Speaker 1: say you're you're lying, we know you're cheating, you're kicked
Speaker 1: off the tour. That was their other option, you know,
Speaker 1: or just you know, intent and all those things that
Speaker 1: go into making a ruling. Sometimes it's hard for somebody
Speaker 1: to pull a trigger like that. But you know, if
Speaker 1: I here's the here's the simple answer. If I was
Speaker 1: playing with him, I'd watch him. You know, I'd be expected.
Speaker 1: Red Norman was watching cucumber. You know. Um, yeah, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: he thought something. He was watching him. That's well said.
Speaker 1: Listening to you talk about the Wryder Cup and the
Speaker 1: present's cup, I mean, doesn't make you worry about the
Speaker 1: future of those two competitions, Davis, because uh, certainly the
Speaker 1: International Presence Cup team is is taking a big hit
Speaker 1: here and Um, you're losing a answer and various other players.
Speaker 1: And if if Aidecki goes, has been discussed, if Cam
Speaker 1: Smith Goes, has been discussed, that that really uh is
Speaker 1: going to weaken that international team especially. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: you know, an entire generation of European captains are potentially
Speaker 1: off the table. I mean we all know Ian Polterwould
Speaker 1: in an all time great captain, Sergio would been a
Speaker 1: great captain, Lee Westwood, Um, you know, you're uh, you're
Speaker 1: losing a lot of personality from both of these cups.
Speaker 1: Like we do, worry about about their future, at least
Speaker 1: in the short term. Yeah, and the reason I agreed
Speaker 1: to do the podcast with you guys, and Michael and
Speaker 1: I have a very, very long relationship, but I knew
Speaker 1: both of you would ask great questions, and that's another
Speaker 1: great question. Um, I don't know what's gonna Happen. I'm
Speaker 1: worried about what's gonna happen. That's why you see me,
Speaker 1: you know, get a little bit mad and emotional in
Speaker 1: a golf channel interview yesterday because it's become a fight. So,
Speaker 1: a year ago, if we had done this, my tournament
Speaker 1: office asked me, what's going on with this, this live thing?
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen, don't worry about it. Six months
Speaker 1: ago and Jay Monahan and are talking about Phil Mickelson
Speaker 1: and he's asking me for his help, for my help
Speaker 1: on a couple of other things. I said, Jay, you're panicking.
Speaker 1: You know this is not going to get off the ground.
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen this movie before. Michael probably heard
Speaker 1: me use that line. Um, we've seen this movie before
Speaker 1: in ninety four. It's not gonna happen. The players, players
Speaker 1: don't want to leave the PGA tour. Um. So, unfortunately
Speaker 1: I was wrong. Um, I misjudged the market. Um, I
Speaker 1: misjudged I didn't realize the depth of the money that
Speaker 1: would be thrown at something that doesn't really have a
Speaker 1: chance to make any money. So I'm I am worried.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen next. These players
Speaker 1: keep coming to me and I go, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I said, here's what's happening behind the scenes and here's
Speaker 1: what the tour is doing, but I don't know what
Speaker 1: the outcomes can be. You know, you take it to
Speaker 1: a court in San Francisco, you don't know what what
Speaker 1: they're gonna do, how are they're going to rule? I
Speaker 1: am I'm a worried, but I'm confident because Jay and
Speaker 1: Tiger and rory and and a great group of people
Speaker 1: are are pouring a lot of effort into trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to how to move forward in any scenario.
Speaker 1: Just real quick because, Um, I was talking to a
Speaker 1: lawyer this morning about this. It's San Francisco is a
Speaker 1: very strategic choice because California is very pro employee, whereas
Speaker 1: if you file in Florida, that has history being very
Speaker 1: pro employeer, and so that was not an accident. They
Speaker 1: chose that particular venue. And you know that when when
Speaker 1: you look at when you look at the lawyers involved
Speaker 1: in this case, it is a WHO's who of white
Speaker 1: shoe law firms and UH, some of the guys that
Speaker 1: live is signed up are known as bare knuckle brawlers
Speaker 1: and Um, so, talking to some folks on the legal
Speaker 1: field like they they see this as as a as a,
Speaker 1: as a real battle. I just want to make that
Speaker 1: point because there's been some confusion about why was it
Speaker 1: a federal court in San Francisco? Well, there there's an
Speaker 1: answer to that. Oh Yeah, you know, their lawyers say
Speaker 1: that they're gonna win and our lawyers say I'm gonna win.
Speaker 1: So my argument to Hudson Swofford or a Taylor Gooch was, okay,
Speaker 1: let's just give it a fifty fifty. You got a
Speaker 1: chance that the tour is gonna win. The tour will
Speaker 1: uphold their rules and you not only broke some rules,
Speaker 1: then you sue the tour and you lost and you
Speaker 1: could be banned for life. Is it worth a fifty
Speaker 1: chance for some money? And that's I promise you. Those
Speaker 1: guys understood of that. Um, a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of these players understood that they were taking a chance
Speaker 1: and that they were going to have to sue to
Speaker 1: get what had already been given to them. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's they have good strategy where they're going. But,
Speaker 1: you know, Ed Hurley is a really famous lawyer. He's
Speaker 1: a chairman of our board, the PGA tour. Um, he's
Speaker 1: very confident, you know. Um, he's not saying let's be
Speaker 1: careful here. You know, they're ready to go. I mean
Speaker 1: as soon as as soon as they filed it, you know,
Speaker 1: it was game on, Um, and that's unfortunate that we're
Speaker 1: gonna be an a legal battle when we should be
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, who's moving up the Fedex Cup
Speaker 1: points list and, Um, and as Dustin Johnson gonna make
Speaker 1: the President's Cup team. That's what I'm worried about. To
Speaker 1: answer your question, Luke Donald just took over. What's he,
Speaker 1: he and Zack Johnson, gonna be doing the next year?
Speaker 1: You know, somebody, somebody yelled across the putting green to
Speaker 1: me a couple of weeks ago said bet you're glad
Speaker 1: you're not on the board now, and I said yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're glad you're not Presidents Cup captain. And but
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm honored to be the captain and maybe
Speaker 1: in this time when I have Steve Stricker and Fred
Speaker 1: couples and Zack Johnson. Now we added Web Simpson, but
Speaker 1: we have upstanding citizens in the game of my assistant captains.
Speaker 1: We can all speak for the PGA tour and we
Speaker 1: can protect our team. Tiger told me that last night.
Speaker 1: What I said, what can I do here is you
Speaker 1: protect to your team right now, and that's my job,
Speaker 1: is to get them ready to play and protect them
Speaker 1: from the outside so they can go play golf, because
Speaker 1: we want to win in Charlotte. You know, there's guys
Speaker 1: right now out there shooting it up sedge field country
Speaker 1: club trying to win the Windham and the game goes
Speaker 1: on even though there's a legal battle behind the scene.
Speaker 1: So I have to I have to make my pairings
Speaker 1: and my picks and all these things over the next
Speaker 1: month and you ready, so the guys that do show
Speaker 1: up and play have the best chance to win. Davis,
Speaker 1: I know you can't know the answer to this question,
Speaker 1: but I am interested in and I think our listeners
Speaker 1: will be very interested in your opinion. What do you
Speaker 1: think the endgame for the Sawdise is here? Because, as
Speaker 1: you just said, there's no money you'd be made here.
Speaker 1: So what are they actually the house of sad what
Speaker 1: are they actually trying to achieve? Well, what what I
Speaker 1: hear is, you know, like Um other countries over there,
Speaker 1: eventually they're going to run out of oil. They're they're
Speaker 1: creating a new economy. They're into Formula One, they're into
Speaker 1: horse racing, UM, soccer clubs. Um. There their destination, you know,
Speaker 1: tourist destination. Now, UM, they're trying to Um create an
Speaker 1: alternate economy other than just being oil rich. Um there
Speaker 1: there is. There is a model that you know, these teams,
Speaker 1: they say, are going to be so valuable, the NIBLICKS
Speaker 1: and whatever, they're gonna be so valuable that there will
Speaker 1: be hundreds of millions of dollars of sponsorships to sponsor
Speaker 1: Phil Nicholson's team, Brooks kept his team, and that's what
Speaker 1: those guys are doing. The guys that have been paid
Speaker 1: the big money are also getting a cut of the action,
Speaker 1: and that was Arnold Palmer's point back Jack and I
Speaker 1: could have taken a cut of the action when this
Speaker 1: whole tour thing started and we didn't do it. So
Speaker 1: those guys are trying to get a cut of the
Speaker 1: team money. And then there's gambling, and that's where, you know,
Speaker 1: every sport right now is getting an influx of of
Speaker 1: sponsorship dollars from gambling. So they see that as well.
Speaker 1: You'RE gonna bet that this team is gonna win today,
Speaker 1: this team is gonna win for the week. Um, it's
Speaker 1: they're they're not. Um, they're not a bunch of fly
Speaker 1: by nine guys. There's a bunch of smart people working
Speaker 1: on us. Unfortunately, their goal is to tear down the
Speaker 1: PGA tour so they can get what they want, so
Speaker 1: they can make up bunch of money. Um, they have
Speaker 1: to be sitting there where a plan to make money
Speaker 1: down the road. You and I look at it like
Speaker 1: they just gave this guy a hundred million and that
Speaker 1: guy million. How could they ever make money that way? Um,
Speaker 1: and play for million a week, but they think they're
Speaker 1: going to make money. Um. You know, then they call
Speaker 1: it sports washing PR move. Well, that's not working in
Speaker 1: the United States. I don't know if it's working around
Speaker 1: the world. So I don't know what they're in game
Speaker 1: is there's so many unknowns and that's why Alan's questions
Speaker 1: so good. What's going to happen to the Ryder Cup,
Speaker 1: in the Presence Cup? What's gonna Happen to the PGA tour? Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But the thing is a a player
Speaker 1: in the hall of fame of Golf, is the one
Speaker 1: that's creating the uncertainty and that's what's so back to
Speaker 1: your question earlier, Michael, if Greg wasn't involved, would it
Speaker 1: be any different? Yeah, it would be hugely different if
Speaker 1: there wasn't. A lot of people love Greg Norman or
Speaker 1: Greg Norman fans, and he's famous, he's in the hall
Speaker 1: of fame. They take what he says is oh well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the tours of monopoly. That's unfair. How can it be
Speaker 1: a monopoly? You know, you don't have to play it.
Speaker 1: You can go play. Rory mclroy could have played the
Speaker 1: European tour. Never come over here. It's not a monopoly.
Speaker 1: We don't have the only place to play professional golf.
Speaker 1: We have the best place, but we don't the only place. Um.
Speaker 1: So Anyway, Um, I don't know where it's going, Um,
Speaker 1: but I am committed. Um, like like I think Jay
Speaker 1: Monahan is to die on the hill Um and try
Speaker 1: to save Um, not professional golf, but PGA Tour Golf. Um.
Speaker 1: What is it supposed to be? A feeder tour to
Speaker 1: the live tour down the road? You know that's the
Speaker 1: end game. I don't know. We didn't understand the nine.
Speaker 1: Where does your next forty guys come from? You know
Speaker 1: that's a really I know you got a questionnaire. I'll
Speaker 1: make this real quick. That's a really good point. And this,
Speaker 1: this is kind of subtle, but not really, and I
Speaker 1: don't know why more people aren't talking about the ultimate
Speaker 1: beauty of the PJ tour is if you if you
Speaker 1: have a bunch of players playing by the rules. That's
Speaker 1: the starting point. You have to trust the scores. It
Speaker 1: is the ultimate meritocracy, no matter how much of an
Speaker 1: asshole you may be. If the scores are the scores,
Speaker 1: you've played your way under the PGA tour. The live
Speaker 1: thing is a cherry picking invitational. We like you, we
Speaker 1: like your personality. You fit our demographic. That's not the
Speaker 1: tradition of professional golf and I think I'm surprised that
Speaker 1: story hasn't been been told. And here's the about here's
Speaker 1: the thing about their tournaments. They have every right to
Speaker 1: do whatever they want to do format. They go play
Speaker 1: whatever they want. Fred couples and I want World Cups
Speaker 1: where we were paid by sponsors to play in the
Speaker 1: World Cup. Right now. We grounded out and we won
Speaker 1: four of them in a row, but it wasn't made
Speaker 1: for TV. Event that Fred and I were paid to
Speaker 1: play in. Right Um, the target world challenge put on
Speaker 1: by Tiger Woods at Um, at Sheerwood. I want it twice.
Speaker 1: Only beat like twelve guys and I want a million dollars.
Speaker 1: Did I get any world ranking points for that or
Speaker 1: does that show up in my PGA tour? I need
Speaker 1: to know because it's not a real tournament. We were
Speaker 1: just playing in Capitalua, Mark Roffing, God bless Mark Rofing. Um,
Speaker 1: I played in twenty, maybe more, mark rofing silly season events.
Speaker 1: They were great on TV and I want a lot
Speaker 1: of money, but they're not. They were not counted in
Speaker 1: my twenty one tour wins. Right. So there's not a
Speaker 1: there's not a problem with what they're doing, but you
Speaker 1: can't do that fourteen times a year and then come
Speaker 1: back and play three or four of the best termis
Speaker 1: on the PGA tour just because you say it's not
Speaker 1: fair if I don't get to do that. If they
Speaker 1: played on the Asian tour and earn their way on
Speaker 1: the PGA tour, that the DP world tour, they could
Speaker 1: come play, but they're they're not wanting to play on
Speaker 1: those tours either. They're not going to be a member
Speaker 1: of the tour. They just think, and this is where
Speaker 1: Greg's arrogance or confidence, he thinks that the top players
Speaker 1: should be able to do whatever they want and not
Speaker 1: play by any of anybody else's rules. Live tour has rules.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of them. I've heard and and
Speaker 1: people have dove into the country. They have a lot
Speaker 1: of rules. You can't just do whatever you want to
Speaker 1: play six a year. You have to play. You're under contract.
Speaker 1: That's what they are, contracted players of another organization and
Speaker 1: they can't be a member of the PGA tour for
Speaker 1: four weeks a year and be a member of that
Speaker 1: organization or the you can't be a member of the
Speaker 1: the European tour and just pop over here and play
Speaker 1: any tournament you want to play. You have to play
Speaker 1: by the rules to get in the events. So Um again.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know where it's all gonna go,
Speaker 1: but it's Um Davis, what would be your advice to
Speaker 1: Fred Ridley? Um, what? What would you he's got. What
Speaker 1: would be? I would say the same thing. Boy, you
Speaker 1: wouln't want to be the chairman of Augusta National Right now,
Speaker 1: would Um? I don't know. So here's the thing that
Speaker 1: the masters has moved on from Arnold Palmer playing Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholas playing Um. You gotta, you gotta think. What what
Speaker 1: do I want to do for the future? You know
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson, Um. You know they've got got a few guys,
Speaker 1: Patrick Reed, past champions. Do you just say, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let them play and maybe they're not invited
Speaker 1: to the past champions dinner because nobody wants them in
Speaker 1: the room? And then past that, we're gonna Change Our
Speaker 1: qualifying system and anybody that's a member of that tour
Speaker 1: is gonna have a really hard time getting in. You know,
Speaker 1: the old days used to have to win a P G,
Speaker 1: a tour event to get into the masters right, and
Speaker 1: then they changed it to top fifty world rankings. You
Speaker 1: can finish in the top ten of the US Open
Speaker 1: or top six in the P G A. Maybe the
Speaker 1: masters just changes again. It says if, if, unless you
Speaker 1: win one of these group of tournaments, you're not in
Speaker 1: the masters, and then we have the right to invite
Speaker 1: whoever we want, like they always have. They're in the
Speaker 1: best position, because some of my friends say, well, the
Speaker 1: majors hold all the cards, Augusta holds their cards and
Speaker 1: they're all aces. They can do whatever they want. And so,
Speaker 1: Fred I would say look at your past chairman, the
Speaker 1: way they've handled things that have come up, and you
Speaker 1: just make your decision, like Augusta national always has, for
Speaker 1: the good of the game, and they'll come out on top.
Speaker 1: You know what happened with Martha Burke. She said, we're protesting,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take protests your sponsors. They went fine, we
Speaker 1: won't have sponsors. What happened in Covid they said, well,
Speaker 1: you can't play without fans or corporate sponsors be there. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can't. We're just we're just playing November two. What do?
Speaker 1: Whatever we want. They're in a great position. You just
Speaker 1: opened and the and the open championship are in a
Speaker 1: tough position because they are open to qualifying. So Martin slumbers.
Speaker 1: I think handled he might have had the best press
Speaker 1: conferences of anybody on this live thing. He just said
Speaker 1: we were going to reserve the right to change our
Speaker 1: qualifying systems down the road and we don't think it's
Speaker 1: right for the game and these guys aren't invited to
Speaker 1: the past champions dinner. Um, and these guys are gonna
Speaker 1: get bad tea times. So he handled it extremely well. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, world ranking points is a whole another issue. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think because of Tim Finchham's tenure and now Jay,
Speaker 1: the golf organizations before this work together, moving in the
Speaker 1: same direction better than they ever have. You know, like
Speaker 1: I said, I've been in five terms on the board.
Speaker 1: That's nineteen years sitting in there in boarding board, listening
Speaker 1: to meetings. Um, when I was last on the board,
Speaker 1: when Jay Monahan was hired, the golf organizations were never
Speaker 1: in a better place moving in the same direction. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Fred Ridley at Augusta National Seth while at the Pja
Speaker 1: of American and Jay Monahan are lifelong friends from the
Speaker 1: game of golf. Um, and then Mike when you know,
Speaker 1: had been at the L P G A. Um. They
Speaker 1: all know each other very well. And they're all moving
Speaker 1: in the same direction. I see that continuing on. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, they can't come out and say what they're
Speaker 1: doing right now because you know they're in the legal battles.
Speaker 1: But Um, I feel confident that the majors will will
Speaker 1: each make their own decisions and make them correctly, because
Speaker 1: I I really trust the leadership of all those organizations
Speaker 1: right now. But see for me, I don't think in
Speaker 1: some ways this is not the major's battle. Like this
Speaker 1: is a turf war between competing tours and each of
Speaker 1: those organizations, the RNA and the U S G A,
Speaker 1: and they get the spotlight one week a year and
Speaker 1: they want to have the best possible terment they can
Speaker 1: have with their past champions, with all the top players.
Speaker 1: I mean for them to set up any rules that
Speaker 1: would carve out and they'd be missing twenty of the
Speaker 1: top fifty players, or whatever the math turns out to be,
Speaker 1: or Um x number hall of famers or Major Championship winners. Um,
Speaker 1: to me that devalues the major championships because then you
Speaker 1: haven't beaten all the all the players. You're right. That's
Speaker 1: why I think. I think what I would do to
Speaker 1: answer Michael's question and your point. If I was Mike
Speaker 1: when I'll just say, Hey, if you've got an current
Speaker 1: exemption as a pass champion or world ranking points, we're
Speaker 1: gonna include you in the field. But here's where our
Speaker 1: rules are now going forward. And if you win twenty
Speaker 1: live events, you're you're not going to get in. But
Speaker 1: if if you finish high in the PGA championship, you
Speaker 1: can get in the US Open. Or if you finish
Speaker 1: high the Fedex points, you win a PGA tour event
Speaker 1: or two PGA tour events, you're in. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? I think, Um, you can include the guys
Speaker 1: that are major champions now, but you don't have to
Speaker 1: say that Chase Kepka got on a roll and won
Speaker 1: five live events in the season and now now he's
Speaker 1: he has to be in the U S Open. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Are The masters? Yeah, but where
Speaker 1: where do you fall on the world ranking question? Because,
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned Tiger's tournament. You didn't get points
Speaker 1: for those wins, but now there's only twenty guys at
Speaker 1: Tiger's tournament and you get points. And Yeah, they play
Speaker 1: saving two holes, but you only have to beat nineteen dudes, Um,
Speaker 1: and it's off season. A lot of mark trying it
Speaker 1: very hard. So, Um, I mean, do you see a
Speaker 1: scenario where where live golf does get world ranking points?
Speaker 1: Because then that that that's gonna make the major question
Speaker 1: take care of itself. Yeah, I was on the board
Speaker 1: too on the on the tiger ternament thing and that
Speaker 1: was that was contentious. But they they adapted, they added
Speaker 1: to the field. Um, you know, used to be less players. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that one um is an anomaly and I'm
Speaker 1: sure if we're in court that would come up. But
Speaker 1: the live tour has several issues. You know, you can't.
Speaker 1: You have to be on a tour where you can
Speaker 1: play your way onto and play your way off. Of
Speaker 1: to Michael's point, it's an invitational group. Um, they're not
Speaker 1: qualifying for the live tour. so that throws them out. Um, no,
Speaker 1: cut throws them out. There's a whole bunch of reasons
Speaker 1: that they don't fit the model. For what ranking points?
Speaker 1: And what they don't tell you publicly is they they
Speaker 1: file an application. What was it July six or something.
Speaker 1: They are on a year probation period to watch how
Speaker 1: their tour runs before they could ever be even if
Speaker 1: they fit the system. They were. They're ineligible for points
Speaker 1: for a year. So we're all the way to, you know,
Speaker 1: pass the masters Um for July of next year. Before
Speaker 1: they get they get a vote on whether they're going
Speaker 1: to get them or not. So those guys right now
Speaker 1: are not getting points no matter what, for a whole year.
Speaker 1: So Um, yes, the world ranking points can can solve
Speaker 1: a lot for the for the major championships, Um, and
Speaker 1: for the PGA tour. But every organization has a vote
Speaker 1: and I'm a Betton Guy. You could. You could recuse
Speaker 1: Um j Monahan. Why I don't I don't know, but
Speaker 1: you could recuse him and you still get the majority,
Speaker 1: if not every one, of them voting against it right now. Um,
Speaker 1: just based on what they've said publicly. So Um, that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of hands being held
Speaker 1: of cards in the that that that deck of that
Speaker 1: that Um dealt hand to the to the world ranking points,
Speaker 1: is a problem. That's why Greg Norman keeps bringing it up, Um,
Speaker 1: and he'll sue over that as well. Um, he'll sue
Speaker 1: for collision and well, but why not, before you file
Speaker 1: your application? Why don't you go to seventy two holes
Speaker 1: in a in a thirty six whole cut and get
Speaker 1: enough players in your tournament where it fits the criteria,
Speaker 1: or at least close. They don't even come close now. Um.
Speaker 1: And those criteria were made up years ago, not. They
Speaker 1: didn't just get made up because of the lift towards
Speaker 1: they've they've been around for a long time. So, Um,
Speaker 1: so some, some, many tour series can't come and ask
Speaker 1: for world ranking point. The corn ferry tour should get
Speaker 1: more world ranking points than anybody other than the PGA tour,
Speaker 1: and they don't. So Um, that one. That one won't
Speaker 1: stick either again, unless you file in San Francisco and
Speaker 1: get the right to get the right judge. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was interested when you said earlier that you know
Speaker 1: this is a hill that you're willing to die on,
Speaker 1: and same with J Monahan. I'm just wondering, is there
Speaker 1: any scenario where there could be a compromise dictated by
Speaker 1: the courts, or or maybe a change in leadership at
Speaker 1: at live and or the PGA tour, where you say, okay,
Speaker 1: it doesn't suit the game to have to split up
Speaker 1: the star power and split up the sponsors and the fans,
Speaker 1: like let's let's bring let's bring this sport back together
Speaker 1: and like these fall events that the tours now cooked up.
Speaker 1: You know, if, if those fly under the banner of
Speaker 1: Live Golf, it's co sanctioned, just like you have co
Speaker 1: actually between the PGA tour and the European tour. Um.
Speaker 1: Is there any way that that this, this could be
Speaker 1: made to work? or Um, and it would probably, you know,
Speaker 1: by by Villainizing uh live. It gets harder to compromise.
Speaker 1: I recognize that. But again, if, if, maybe, if, if,
Speaker 1: if Monahan took a graceful exit, or and or Norman like,
Speaker 1: could we put this back together somehow? Well, Monahan, Monahan
Speaker 1: works for the players. So the players can hire or
Speaker 1: fire the commissioner. Um, I get a hundred and forty
Speaker 1: guys together and we all say to the four player
Speaker 1: directors we want the commissioner fired. Um, it will happen. Um.
Speaker 1: So I think Jays is very, very safe. Um. That
Speaker 1: goes back to Michael's original question about if it wasn't
Speaker 1: the saladies back in it, if it wasn't Greg Norman
Speaker 1: back in it, could you work out? Well, Um, the
Speaker 1: the political thing is a tough one because again, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of companies in the United States to sponsor
Speaker 1: PGA tour events that do business with the Saudies. Right,
Speaker 1: so maybe that could work out. The US government does
Speaker 1: business with the Saudies. You know, the people that are
Speaker 1: investigating us do business with the Saudis. I don't have
Speaker 1: a problem with, Um, with going down that road to
Speaker 1: a certain extent. You know, Greg Norman is just caustic.
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe, Um. But yes, let's just talk about golf.
Speaker 1: Leave out the Saudies, leave out Greg Norman. Yes, there
Speaker 1: can be a solution and that's I think Jay has
Speaker 1: enough forgiveness and Um grace and his personality and in
Speaker 1: his heart that he doesn't want a rift. He would
Speaker 1: love to figure out a way. So yes, if it
Speaker 1: wasn't the week before the major championships, if it wasn't
Speaker 1: up against the core PGA tour season, it could work.
Speaker 1: You could move our eight million dollar tournaments around and
Speaker 1: move their million dollar tournaments around and not require that
Speaker 1: they play every one of their fourteen, or we not
Speaker 1: require you have to play fifteen over here. Things can change, yes, Um,
Speaker 1: but the way they chose to do it, Um, and
Speaker 1: the and the people behind it have caused it to
Speaker 1: be a fight. So, Um, you know you guy, Michael
Speaker 1: knows me Verymo you know me a little. I want
Speaker 1: everybody to get along and be happy and and let's
Speaker 1: all turn out. Several players have said, well, maybe you
Speaker 1: ought to be the commissioner. I got no, I'm not
Speaker 1: smart enough to understand all the TV deals and how
Speaker 1: to get on my ipad on the on the call Um.
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough. I just know that I want
Speaker 1: to be one of the people that give is an
Speaker 1: opinion and tries to help make it work out. But
Speaker 1: Trust me, there are veteran top players. Roy's out front,
Speaker 1: but there are veteran top players that are doing that
Speaker 1: right now with the commissioner, with the golf organizations. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's figure something out that will work for the PGA
Speaker 1: tour to protect it and not lose any more guys.
Speaker 1: So yes, there's again. I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: I just know that my little golf tournament in the
Speaker 1: fall series which, however it turns out, gives a lot
Speaker 1: of money to charity and gives a lot of playing
Speaker 1: opportunities to guys from fifty to the money list. That's
Speaker 1: my job, is to create playing opportunities and look at
Speaker 1: look at a lot of the players that have won
Speaker 1: one our tournaments their first win or Charles how a
Speaker 1: late career win. Um, it's it's been a great tournament
Speaker 1: and Tiger's got the biggest tournament on the West Coast
Speaker 1: at Riviera and he's doing a great thing for the
Speaker 1: top players and given guys like Max home away to
Speaker 1: become famous and he's doing a ton of work for charity.
Speaker 1: We want to protect that and we will defend that
Speaker 1: because live, no matter who's running it, they want to
Speaker 1: tear down the PGA tour structure and that's what people
Speaker 1: need to understand. They don't want to coexist. Um, a
Speaker 1: lot of players. Well, I think to that point, what
Speaker 1: I mean we've already seen. If you think about the
Speaker 1: Tuesday night dinner the Champions Center at the masters, you
Speaker 1: know it was the untouchable of untouchables. The chairman is
Speaker 1: only there by invitation of the past champions. Well, the
Speaker 1: salty money has already completely infiltrated the sanctum sanctorum of
Speaker 1: all cluby dinners, the champions inner, because then you got
Speaker 1: Bubba Watson, Pat Read, Sergio Phil and Dustin all in
Speaker 1: their little group and you've got Big Jack and Gary Player,
Speaker 1: he might as all sit with him too. And then
Speaker 1: Big Jack, we don't know really where he sits. You
Speaker 1: got all because the Saudi money has poured into the game. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I'm started to get emotional here, but in our lifetime
Speaker 1: we have and probably our parents and probably generations, that
Speaker 1: we have never had a U S president like Donald
Speaker 1: Trump who, no matter what you think of him politically,
Speaker 1: would not even commit to the peaceful trans or power.
Speaker 1: Now we're talking about a game where our game, this
Speaker 1: game that we, you know, all three of us love
Speaker 1: and play a different levels, is committed on and Davis
Speaker 1: has starked about the rules again and again here, by
Speaker 1: by playing by the rules. But this guy would even
Speaker 1: commit to the rules of of democracy, the thing that
Speaker 1: we ultimately hold most sacred as possible. Now, Al and
Speaker 1: I talked about this lot. I think the end game
Speaker 1: for the Saudis here is something I think you know.
Speaker 1: Paul Casey and Ian Poulter and and every last one,
Speaker 1: and they are pawns in this global, global game. And Davis,
Speaker 1: he alluded to earlier of what the Saudis are really
Speaker 1: trying to do here, and just the fact that they offered,
Speaker 1: if it's true and I imagined it is seven hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars tiger woods. Tiger Woods can't play fourteen events
Speaker 1: a year. He can't play three. So that shows it.
Speaker 1: This is not about money. This is like week. This
Speaker 1: is how powerful we are. We can buy Tiger Woods
Speaker 1: and in the end they couldn't. We can buy Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholas for, you know, a mere hundred million, hundred million
Speaker 1: horrors out of their out of their pockets, like it's something.
Speaker 1: But they could buy pat read and they could buy
Speaker 1: Phil Michoelson and they found leverage points. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: a worked up way of saying I'm sorry for getting
Speaker 1: so worked up here. Davis, I I know you don't
Speaker 1: like to be publicly political and and this is and
Speaker 1: this question isn't meant to be that, but Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: he's a major figure in golf in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: The PGA tour has said goodbye to Donald Trump. The
Speaker 1: PGA of America has, you know, he's not getting invited
Speaker 1: to August national only time soon. The RNA is and
Speaker 1: interested in him. But live golf has embraced this guy.
Speaker 1: Two tournaments this year. I imagined the only be more
Speaker 1: next year. What do you think? It says a live
Speaker 1: golf that they have sought trump and trump has gladly
Speaker 1: globbed on to well, I think, Um, you know, politics
Speaker 1: is involved in this a lot of ways and and
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate because, no matter what you think, the people
Speaker 1: like Donald Trump and of people don't like Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Of the people like this party, like that party, and
Speaker 1: that is the fight that Um, that's causing a lot
Speaker 1: of problems in this country. Um, divisiveness and unrest. And
Speaker 1: now it's in Golf. And I liked listening to some
Speaker 1: of the guys on Fox. But then, but but then,
Speaker 1: now they're saying that trump's right and I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think Donald Trump understands the difference between the
Speaker 1: PG of America and the P G A tour. I
Speaker 1: don't think Lindsey Graham understand and the difference between the
Speaker 1: PGA of American and the PGA tour. And they're saying, well,
Speaker 1: these guys should just take the money. Um, I don't
Speaker 1: think they really understand how the tour does business. I
Speaker 1: went to Washington when the last time the tour was
Speaker 1: was challenged on its Um tax exempt status. I Bet
Speaker 1: with a bunch of senators and Congressman Jack Nicholas wrote
Speaker 1: a bunch of letters. Um, we had to literally explain
Speaker 1: to them how our termament structure works and why we
Speaker 1: give so much money to charity and why the players
Speaker 1: can play for so much because of the system that
Speaker 1: Davis love and Jack Nicholas and Tiger Woods and the
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer family and the Dallas salesmanship club and the
Speaker 1: Phoenix Sunder Birds. They own and operate these term it's
Speaker 1: not the PGA tour and they're built just to give
Speaker 1: money to scarity. And if you've hurt that system, it's
Speaker 1: going to cost you money. Uh, it's gonna cost you
Speaker 1: tax dollars, not not make you tax dollars. Um. So
Speaker 1: I don't think Donald Trump understands is that. You know,
Speaker 1: he just wants his clubs to be famous, himself to
Speaker 1: be on TV, and it doesn't surprise me that that
Speaker 1: live buys into that. But nobody's watching it doesn't really.
Speaker 1: They're not because, UM, Donald trump was in that box.
Speaker 1: You see it in the news clips. But there were
Speaker 1: how many people watch Tony Fenelle win two weeks in
Speaker 1: a row? A lot of people watch that. Um, they
Speaker 1: saw a good golf. Tony Fe hit every green. You know,
Speaker 1: in Detroit, Um, it was great golf and it was
Speaker 1: real golf and that's the influence on the game. That's
Speaker 1: good what they're doing. It was. It's just a sideshow.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question, Greg Norman. If Greg
Speaker 1: Norman at Dal when he's beating the stew out of
Speaker 1: us every year, if a guy was pouring beer out
Speaker 1: of the grandstands and another guy would catching it in
Speaker 1: his mouth while Greg was teeing off, or if there
Speaker 1: was a cart going down the Fairway Rodney Dangerfield with
Speaker 1: Loud Music Um, would Greg Norman not have lost his
Speaker 1: ever living mind and sent Steve Williams to beat them up?
Speaker 1: It's so fake, you know. It's just it's not and
Speaker 1: the things that they say and do, it's it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not golf and so not surprising that Um, any
Speaker 1: kind of the side show, including trump, is included in it.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Davis, did you play eighties six at Schanica hills? Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, and you maybe remember there. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: Greg Norman, fifty four old leader, and then you know,
Speaker 1: the crowd started getting on him just a little bit
Speaker 1: and he had the rabbit ears of rabbit ears so
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, I saw him. I
Speaker 1: move a lot of photographers and a lot of volunteers
Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't think if I'd have had
Speaker 1: my jam box in my bag playing um when we played,
Speaker 1: it would have gone over very well. I would love
Speaker 1: to hear your playlist, Davis. I'm fascinated. What would be
Speaker 1: on that? My Grand Davis will surprise that has made
Speaker 1: me change it to two kids bop on x m
Speaker 1: when they get in my truck. It's it's it's from
Speaker 1: Christian two Pearl Jam Radio to outlaw country and then
Speaker 1: to the NASCAR channel. You know. So I have a
Speaker 1: weird have weird presets. Now, Davis, this is a good point,
Speaker 1: Alan may not notice, to point out that Davis has
Speaker 1: been a committed hunter, s Thompson reader in his youth
Speaker 1: as well. So he's got a lot of moods, Ellen,
Speaker 1: and also, also, and I know, I know that Davis
Speaker 1: is a no, he's a Colectic that that's why, that's
Speaker 1: why he's on this podcast. As I saw. You know,
Speaker 1: Davis in his two years at the University of North
Speaker 1: Carolina was an English maker. And Alan, when you said
Speaker 1: me and Bob Harrick. I saw a trific which, yeah,
Speaker 1: Bob Harrick, and I I mean it couldn't be simile.
Speaker 1: I didn't get that withth Carolina. I got that with
Speaker 1: a wooden spoon with my mom. Well, I was yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I was trying to be colloquially. I wanted to make
Speaker 1: him field at home. Michael, my bad, I'm sorry, Um,
Speaker 1: but well, this is this has been a good education
Speaker 1: of the UH UH. You know, I feel like you're
Speaker 1: speaking for the tour and you're speaking for a traditionalists
Speaker 1: and it's an important point of view. You know, I
Speaker 1: think michaellect was it. I'm somewhere more towards the middle
Speaker 1: of trying to trying to understand both sides, but it's
Speaker 1: it's valuable to hear your take on all these things, Davis.
Speaker 1: I think it's good to understand both sides and it's
Speaker 1: good to have a goal of somehow all this is
Speaker 1: working out. So agree with you, Um and and it is.
Speaker 1: It is good to go scout it. But the thing
Speaker 1: about for the business of Tours, they're stealing employees from
Speaker 1: the U S G A, they're stealing Um vendors from
Speaker 1: other tournaments. You know, it's it's not. Um, they're not
Speaker 1: doing an amicable way. Um, it's a corporate, hostile takeover
Speaker 1: and and so that. Yes, in the end we want
Speaker 1: what's what's the best line. Always good for the game.
Speaker 1: You know, we want what's best for the game eventually.
Speaker 1: But Um, you know, the world has changed a lot
Speaker 1: since the simple times of you know, when my dad
Speaker 1: played the PGA tour. My Dad was a club pro.
Speaker 1: So maybe times are a changing. But Um, they threw
Speaker 1: too many wrenches in there that that are hard to swallow.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, trevor and Loma made a great point.
Speaker 1: He said, you know, outside of the United States, Um,
Speaker 1: the world and the golf world doesn't have a problem
Speaker 1: with the Saudis. And we really and have. Players have
Speaker 1: been released to play in their tournaments over the years.
Speaker 1: You know, they've gotten more and more. In fact, this
Speaker 1: last last year, it was there was one opposite the
Speaker 1: a t and t pebble beach and they let nineteen guys,
Speaker 1: I think, go play and they said look, if we're
Speaker 1: gonna let you do that, but some of you guys
Speaker 1: need to play Dallas, a t and t event, and
Speaker 1: you've got to play a t and t pebble beach
Speaker 1: next year. We'll let you go. So we haven't had
Speaker 1: a thing against the Saudis or Dubai or Qatar or
Speaker 1: the European tour um or playing in Mexico or playing
Speaker 1: in China or playing in Korea. We don't. We haven't
Speaker 1: played the political game. Um. So outside of this country
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think a whole lot of golf
Speaker 1: people by the Saudi money thing. I think it's a
Speaker 1: PR issue over here that you know, look at they
Speaker 1: pull logos off guy's chest because they went and did
Speaker 1: it these companies in the United States. That that's gonna
Speaker 1: be hard to get over. You know, it's well, look
Speaker 1: what they did to Justin Thomas, you know, one comm
Speaker 1: and people just start dropping him like flies and he's
Speaker 1: a he's a great young man, you know. So that's
Speaker 1: a big issue in this country. Is You know, how
Speaker 1: how could um that ever fly, even if the tour
Speaker 1: wanted to do business with him? Could you do good
Speaker 1: business with them? Um, because of the political out atmosphere?
Speaker 1: But I wanted to all work out. But I'M gonna
Speaker 1: fight for for my tour and for for my my
Speaker 1: tournament and rules that literally me and Jay Haas and
Speaker 1: Jeff sluman and Brad facts and board members that we
Speaker 1: set up because that's what the players asked us to do,
Speaker 1: and Jays just defending them. Davis, got a really narrow
Speaker 1: question for you. How do you explain slugger? Well, he
Speaker 1: was retired. That's the funniest comment. Um, when now when
Speaker 1: Sergio or somebody gets a bad ruling, they're like, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to get off of this tour. Well, it's
Speaker 1: slugger is going to give you the ruling over there.
Speaker 1: It's the same, they ruly and there's probably gonna be
Speaker 1: less official, so he's probably gonna be giving lots of rulings. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, there there's a lot of other names
Speaker 1: that aren't famous, like like slugger, that have come from
Speaker 1: other golf organizations that have got paid a lot of
Speaker 1: money to go over there. TV people and, as I said, vendors, suppliers,
Speaker 1: tent guys that put up tents Um, have taken the
Speaker 1: money and you know, I just question again to Michael's point,
Speaker 1: if it does fall apart and all these people the
Speaker 1: money dries up because they could lose interest, you know.
Speaker 1: But it keeps going the way it's going now. Um,
Speaker 1: I would think somebody has to be accountable for hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars and and no revenue. You know
Speaker 1: the TV over here won't touch them. Um, it had
Speaker 1: to be something bizarre from outside. We have TV partners
Speaker 1: long time on the PGA tour. I don't see them
Speaker 1: breaking ranks anytime soon. Um, people are gonna get tired
Speaker 1: of watching that same thing over and over again. And
Speaker 1: how you've been there, but it's gonna be the same
Speaker 1: thing over and over again. If it's a closed shop,
Speaker 1: you're gonna see these same same players over and over
Speaker 1: and over again. And is it interesting that Dustin Johnson
Speaker 1: hasn't one one yet and then maybe he will one one. Don't.
Speaker 1: Is that interesting? I don't think I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: if Tony Fenel wins the Fedex Cup as great as
Speaker 1: he's hitting it, or it's Cam Young gonna bomb it around.
Speaker 1: You Know East Lake and when? When the Fedex Cup
Speaker 1: come in as a rookie? You know, I think those
Speaker 1: kind of things are are more interesting. You know, whins
Speaker 1: Justin and Jordan's gonna break break loose again. Those are
Speaker 1: more interesting than than watching the same guys play over
Speaker 1: and over again. Day's part of me for not knowing
Speaker 1: the answer this. But just tiger have a role in
Speaker 1: your President's Cup team at the moment. He's he's an advisor. No,
Speaker 1: he's have webs Simpson and Zack Johnson, Fred couples and
Speaker 1: Steve Stricker and then, you know there's the the usual
Speaker 1: Um group that we rely on, Jim Furick Um, you know,
Speaker 1: all the way back to Tom Lehman's captaincy. We're all
Speaker 1: in this together and you know, supporting Um. Tiger has
Speaker 1: done an incredible job. The last Um couple after he
Speaker 1: was the captain, the next the next two he was.
Speaker 1: He's been very involved in Um. You know, obviously he's
Speaker 1: got other issues. Like you said, you can't hardly play
Speaker 1: and it's hard for him to travel and Um. So
Speaker 1: he's trying to get himself back in shape. But yes,
Speaker 1: he's very involved and he's doing a lot to help
Speaker 1: um the tour and um a lot with his foundation.
Speaker 1: So he's staying busy and and and always helping me.
Speaker 1: I talked to him. I talked to him last night.
Speaker 1: As I said, he's a trusted I trusted Um boss.
Speaker 1: Now he's not an advisor. He's already Davis does it
Speaker 1: make you sad that Phil Michelson will never be a
Speaker 1: writer Cup captain as it stands right now? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what at the point I tried to make him make
Speaker 1: to him, as you know, let let's try to figure
Speaker 1: this out before you go over there and start playing. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, we want Phil Micholson to be, as I
Speaker 1: heard from Michael, we want him to be an honorary
Speaker 1: starter at the masters. We want him to be a rider,
Speaker 1: Cup captain, President's Cup captain. He deserves he deserves that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's gone from he's a word he's a
Speaker 1: hero at Kila on the ocean course, two people calling,
Speaker 1: maybe only one or two, calling, for him to be
Speaker 1: thrown out of the hall of fame. I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's a a tragic decline. So it's very sad. I
Speaker 1: mean he's a I don't know how many twelve teams
Speaker 1: I was on with him, and then assistant captain teams
Speaker 1: that he played, Captain Team that he played. So we've
Speaker 1: got maybe twenty tans together. Yeah, it's gonna be very
Speaker 1: sad for me as an old guy. I want to
Speaker 1: thank cam young maybe that Dustin Johnson and Phil Nicholson
Speaker 1: aren't aren't a part of the team. I loved how
Speaker 1: Brooks kept going the teams. We we had a great
Speaker 1: um you know, maybe quiet, quiet GRANDPA grandson relationship, like
Speaker 1: he had a problem. He game to me. If I
Speaker 1: told him what to do, he did it. Um. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for him the way he
Speaker 1: played on those teams and the passion he played with. Um.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be sad not to have brooks. I got
Speaker 1: a ball marker in my backpack right now from the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup it whistling straits that he left in his
Speaker 1: locker that I don't know what am I supposed to
Speaker 1: do with. Does he he don't carry more? Or is
Speaker 1: he never going to play another one? It's all those
Speaker 1: things are very, very sad. And you see me make
Speaker 1: comments on TV UM defending the tour, but it's hard
Speaker 1: to do that because Hudson swofford lives on our island
Speaker 1: and he's friends with the tour players that lived there
Speaker 1: and now he's suing them. It's very, very sad. Is
Speaker 1: he still? Is he still friends with those players? Um,
Speaker 1: we don't know. You know, we're so early into this island.
Speaker 1: What do you do when you run into a guy
Speaker 1: if he happens to be in the locker room or
Speaker 1: at the in our case at the grocery store. You know. Um, hey,
Speaker 1: how's how you doing? How's the family? Um, how's your
Speaker 1: lawsuit against US going? Um, I'm not experienced enough in this.
Speaker 1: Don't know what to do. I am praying for you. Um,
Speaker 1: have a nice summer and walk off. It hurts. Good
Speaker 1: Golf takeing golf has taking a professional golf has taken
Speaker 1: a serious hit here already. It makes us look greedy
Speaker 1: and arrogant and elite, all the things that we tried
Speaker 1: not look at. Look at where we've come in the
Speaker 1: last twenty years on diversity, inclusion, growing the game. Augusta
Speaker 1: national is sponsoring a drive, chip and PUTT and letting
Speaker 1: little kids come play on their course and and the
Speaker 1: women play the last round of the Augusta amateur on
Speaker 1: Augusta national and they go around the world hosting amateur events.
Speaker 1: They send Johnny Harris from Quail Hollow to go run,
Speaker 1: you know, the Asian amateur or something. The things the PGA,
Speaker 1: junior league golf. Little kids come up to me and sign,
Speaker 1: have me sign their hat and then I tell them
Speaker 1: turn around. So I can see what number you are
Speaker 1: because they're on a PGA junior league golf team and
Speaker 1: they wore their shirt to the P G A tour event. Um,
Speaker 1: and all the great things the U S G A
Speaker 1: is doing, the first t my tournament and so many
Speaker 1: other players on the tour support local first tea chapters.
Speaker 1: We've done a great job of growing the game and
Speaker 1: it's just it's just sad that all you're seeing in
Speaker 1: the news is hundred million dollars here and a hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars there and lawsuits. That's that's not what m
Speaker 1: been crunch Il would say. That's not what Byron Nelson
Speaker 1: and Ben Hogan and Jack Nicholas and Arnold Palmer intended
Speaker 1: for us to be doing right now. Well, that seems
Speaker 1: like a good a good stopping point. Um Davis, you've
Speaker 1: been very generous with with your time. You're in the
Speaker 1: middle of a tournament here. You should be thinking about
Speaker 1: your putting stroke, not all this, but I guess that's
Speaker 1: part of being an ambassador of the sport. You're always
Speaker 1: on duty. So thank you for your for your time
Speaker 1: and your insight and I have a feeling this we'll
Speaker 1: have another one of these conversations at some point, because
Speaker 1: it was definitely enlightening for me. And Yeah, there will
Speaker 1: be many updates to this. Yeah, hopefully I run into
Speaker 1: both of you soon at at a big tournament. What
Speaker 1: are your dinner plans? Oh, I think, I think I
Speaker 1: know lamps. Yes, the the great lance bearer from CBS
Speaker 1: sports who's retired, is Um, is here this week. It's
Speaker 1: a big week in CBS. You know, Sir Nick Faldo, Um,
Speaker 1: this is his last event and so I have to
Speaker 1: stop by the booth and and come up with something
Speaker 1: quippy to say to him. And but yeah, dinner with
Speaker 1: Lance and Um and friends. So it's a the tour
Speaker 1: life is not very glamorous, but we do get out
Speaker 1: and have some fun hotels and restaurants and and grocery stores, Um.
Speaker 1: But UH, well, we'll have a good night tonight and
Speaker 1: I'm sure there'll be great conversation about the state of
Speaker 1: the game. I love it. Yeah, let's do another podcast
Speaker 1: tomorrow and we talk about the dinner like I think
Speaker 1: we could have. We have daily updates. I love it
Speaker 1: so well. I'd love to do it again with you guys,
Speaker 1: hopefully after after we picked the President's Cup team and then,
Speaker 1: after we win them, let's go. Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 1: All right, we accept your offer. Yeah, that'll be true us, Davis.
Speaker 1: Thank you Allan Thank you okay. Well, this was a
Speaker 1: very enlightening conversation. Thank you to David's love for his time.
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, this is Allen Schip nick signing off from
Speaker 1: another fire drill podcast. We will keep them coming as
Speaker 1: current events demand. As always, we thank you guys for
Speaker 1: listening and put back in your ear soon. That's it.
Speaker 1: Put another log on the fire. Nobody hears. GET THE
Speaker 1: TIME