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Speaker 1: our guest on the podcast needs little introduction. Curtis Strange
Speaker 1: one back to back US opens and fourteen other PGA
Speaker 1: Tour events during his Hall of Fame career. We talk
Speaker 1: about his career Brighton's new style of play, what he
Speaker 1: loved most about working in the US Open broadcast with Fox,
Speaker 1: and much more.
Speaker 2: I missed a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a bright egg
Speaker 2: Frida egg, the dreaded Friday Frida egg Frida egg brid egg, Lie,
Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off the golf course.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you you had a lot of
Speaker 1: huge moments in your career, obviously your two US Open wins,
Speaker 1: But I'm curious where the closing eagle to win the
Speaker 1: NCAA title as a freshman ranks in your kind of
Speaker 1: golf memories.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's it's it's a good question, and
Speaker 2: it's one that I always answer when you talk about
Speaker 2: fortunate enough to have some highlights. I put that in
Speaker 2: there because highlights just aren't professional highlights. Highlights are at
Speaker 2: each stage in your career, and that highlight propelled you
Speaker 2: or gave you confidence to go forward. And certainly that
Speaker 2: was huge for me personally as a freshman for Wake
Speaker 2: Forest as their first NCAA golf championship. For my teammates
Speaker 2: for my coach. You know, it was just huge and
Speaker 2: then the shot itself hit a one iron to eight
Speaker 2: or ten feet and making the putt. I was just
Speaker 2: trying to two putt. They went in. But you know
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, it was it's it's in my top,
Speaker 2: you know, three or four Be honest with you, because
Speaker 2: it was a one that you know what, what pops
Speaker 2: up in your memory back that that's one of them
Speaker 2: that does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagined you can probably vividly remember all the
Speaker 1: details of that, that one iron. And you know, for
Speaker 1: younger listeners, this isn't your driving one iron, this is
Speaker 1: a butter knife.
Speaker 2: This is this is one you could cook a file,
Speaker 2: you could cut a flay with. Yes, go to your
Speaker 2: next time you go away. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: could even fond a one iron anymore. I don't know
Speaker 2: if a youngster went to see what a one iron McGregor,
Speaker 2: Spaulding Wilson one iron used to look like, gosh, where
Speaker 2: would you go to look for something like that other
Speaker 2: than your your granddaddy's garage? You know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but uh, you know, we the blades were smaller, they
Speaker 2: were all forged. They were you had to hit them,
Speaker 2: you know, the closer to the housal, the more solid.
Speaker 2: But we did it. I mean it was something you
Speaker 2: didn't you didn't know any better. And you know, quite frankly,
Speaker 2: the middle and short irons were when you hit it
Speaker 2: solid there was with the softer old ballotta ball. It
Speaker 2: was like butter. It was so solid and so had
Speaker 2: such a sound, soft sound, and it flew so nicely.
Speaker 2: But things have changed in all aspects of that sound
Speaker 2: and feel and look than yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of change, how being a young player in
Speaker 1: tour on tour in the late seventies and eighties, how
Speaker 1: is it? How was that different than the young players today?
Speaker 2: Oh? You know what I I'm first going to say
Speaker 2: in the course of this conversation. I never I never
Speaker 2: ever look at the youngsters today and say, gosh, it
Speaker 2: was better in my day, or I never want to
Speaker 2: be the the old jealous you know, crudgeon, that was
Speaker 2: better in my day. I think that it's all pretty
Speaker 2: much the same. You're out there to you know, as
Speaker 2: a youngster, you get on tour and first of all,
Speaker 2: you happy to be there. It was a dream. And
Speaker 2: now let's go forward from here and you keep your
Speaker 2: nose to the grindstone. You work, you hit out balls
Speaker 2: and balls and balls every single day. You progress slowly.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't think you progress, but you do, and
Speaker 2: then you then you might you know back in the
Speaker 2: day it was the top sixty. But anyway, you just
Speaker 2: you competitively, keep grinding and and trying to compete against
Speaker 2: the best there is and and so from that standpoint,
Speaker 2: it's all the same. You're trying to be the best
Speaker 2: you can be. You all have similar backgrounds in that
Speaker 2: you know, it came up in the game. You progressed,
Speaker 2: You enjoyed winning, but you knew there's a lot of
Speaker 2: work and more likely and not you you loved it
Speaker 2: more than the next guy. You competed harder, You worked
Speaker 2: harder than the next guy, and it showed. And so
Speaker 2: now you know, if you work hard on tour that
Speaker 2: I should improve. Some do, some don't. I mean there's
Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of variables here that
Speaker 2: to be successful on tour that you have to have.
Speaker 2: You know, you have to be an athletic type of individual.
Speaker 2: Now we've had our exceptions, but most in the most cases,
Speaker 2: you're a pretty good damn good athlete. Uh, you have
Speaker 2: to be stubborn. You know, you have to have a
Speaker 2: work ethic, you know, all these things that you have
Speaker 2: to love to compete, and you have to be able
Speaker 2: to You have to be able to accept the the
Speaker 2: failure on the stage and be able to get up
Speaker 2: the next day and look forward to going to the
Speaker 2: golf course again and all those things. So my answer
Speaker 2: to your simple questions, I think it's all pretty much
Speaker 2: the same as all competition at a young age. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've talked to Jeff Ogilvie a couple of times, and
Speaker 1: he's obviously played an era a little bit later than yours,
Speaker 1: but one with huge change with obviously track Man, and
Speaker 1: he talks. One thing he talked about was the idea
Speaker 1: of everybody used to be searching for something and you'd
Speaker 1: get to the range on a weekly basis and somebody
Speaker 1: would say, oh, I think I figured it out. And
Speaker 1: with the advent or track Man, it's it's not really
Speaker 1: a secret anymore. Everybody's got to figure it out every day.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I track Man gives you more knowledge,
Speaker 2: more detail of what's really happening. But you figured it
Speaker 2: out as a player. You knew what worked in a
Speaker 2: feel or what you thought was a movement on the
Speaker 2: backswing or down swing. You knew that feel. When I
Speaker 2: felt that, say on the start of my down I
Speaker 2: hit the ball better. So you tried to emulate that
Speaker 2: and repeat that. Now that you can do that in
Speaker 2: a daily in a particular day, and then when you
Speaker 2: go to bed, it never seems to be there the
Speaker 2: next morning. Yes, so you have to try to find
Speaker 2: that the next morning, and it might be a little
Speaker 2: bit different feel, it might be, but you get it.
Speaker 2: You get what I'm saying is that we had our
Speaker 2: own track man, within our own feel. And you have
Speaker 2: to go back to the clubs and balls were different.
Speaker 2: So I think you could feel the impact a little
Speaker 2: bit better because a mishit just off center. You could
Speaker 2: feel it because the blades were such a smaller had
Speaker 2: such a smaller sweet spot. They were so much smaller,
Speaker 2: and the balls were softer, so you could feel where
Speaker 2: they were on the face. And so you had your
Speaker 2: own track man, and you kind of knew your own
Speaker 2: strength and weaknesses. Hopefully you did in your swing, and
Speaker 2: you knew how to adjust. And it was all about adjusting.
Speaker 2: And those who could do that more better than others
Speaker 2: were more successful.
Speaker 1: Did you through your career have like a certain feel
Speaker 1: that you were always trying to trying to get in
Speaker 1: when you were swinging and playing your best, you you
Speaker 1: were getting that specific feel and if so, what was it?
Speaker 2: Yes? I did. Again, we were We were mostly all
Speaker 2: field players. There were a few mechanical type players, but
Speaker 2: again this was before it got so mechanical and teachers
Speaker 2: changed and became way too mechanical with young kids, and
Speaker 2: that's another story for another day. But yeah, I had feels,
Speaker 2: but they changed throughout a career because your body changes
Speaker 2: throughout a career and your swing changes, so that in
Speaker 2: itself is an adjustment, not every daily adjustment, but it
Speaker 2: just you know, from from time to time. Early on,
Speaker 2: I was a big swinger, very upright, stronger griped, launched
Speaker 2: it for for in the day, so the feel was
Speaker 2: more movement from the body from the ground up to
Speaker 2: create the speed that I wanted. I was. I was
Speaker 2: reasonably accurate in those days doing that, and I didn't
Speaker 2: know it at tom but I had a good swing.
Speaker 2: I mean, my swing was online so and I didn't
Speaker 2: know anything about that stuff when I was in college.
Speaker 2: I just launched it and it went straight but and
Speaker 2: and but as you get on tour, I tried to
Speaker 2: change my swing to be more consistent. I wanted to
Speaker 2: be able to compete every day, even those days you
Speaker 2: didn't feel very well or someone was out of sorts,
Speaker 2: I still wanted to be able to get it around
Speaker 2: the golf course. So I throttled back just a little bit.
Speaker 2: I tried to tighten up a little bit. And so
Speaker 2: you so your feels changed. So my my my feel
Speaker 2: in those days when I went through this change, starting
Speaker 2: back in the early eighties, was you know, my grip
Speaker 2: got a little weaker. You know, I kind of held
Speaker 2: on almost like a block, and uh, I guess it
Speaker 2: was somewhat of a block uh through impact, But with
Speaker 2: the weak grip, it never went left. And my key
Speaker 2: looking back on it now, was that I never ever
Speaker 2: worried about the ball going left. So I basically had
Speaker 2: eliminated one side of the golf course. And you know,
Speaker 2: when I missed, it went to the right, and so
Speaker 2: I knew that and therefore I could drive it straight.
Speaker 2: I'd ironed it pretty well. But more than anything else,
Speaker 2: I eliminated one side of the golf course.
Speaker 1: Yes, one of my favorite sayings faders eat fil a
Speaker 1: and hookers eat hamburger.
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's uh when you do hook and
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know the last guy that
Speaker 2: hit sweeping hooks or hooks. First of all, the clubs
Speaker 2: don't allow it. The balls really don't allow it. The
Speaker 2: spinning sideways. But you know when you when you in
Speaker 2: the day, if you hit a if you hit a
Speaker 2: big draw. You know, the last guy I remember was
Speaker 2: uh sheesus what was his name? Back in Arnolds? Anyway,
Speaker 2: they used to hit draws because they released it and
Speaker 2: they wanted to get maximum distance. But if you hit it,
Speaker 2: if you released it perfectly, it drew okay. But what's
Speaker 2: the If you release it too much, it drew too
Speaker 2: much and the ball runs out. So you didn't want
Speaker 2: to do that. So the next thing you hold on
Speaker 2: a little bit and goes the right. So now you've
Speaker 2: got both sides of the golf courses going. And there
Speaker 2: was a guy that didn't neat filet Okay, when he's
Speaker 2: when he's going both ways, he's searching for that feel
Speaker 2: and when it's on, it's good. Now think about that
Speaker 2: little that little soft hang on cut that first of all,
Speaker 2: it doesn't cut as much because of the angle of attack.
Speaker 2: As a hook, it comes down softer and more than
Speaker 2: likely because you're hanging on you never miss left. I
Speaker 2: mean you might miss left once in a while. And
Speaker 2: a guy I think of in modern times as a
Speaker 2: Jordan speed, he has it kind of blocked through the ball,
Speaker 2: but he misses left once in a while. And I
Speaker 2: don't know why that are used to anyway, and I'm
Speaker 2: not picking on him, but just most of those guys
Speaker 2: have a little weaker grift that hold on don't miss left,
Speaker 2: and so therefore, you know it, it's kind of easy
Speaker 2: to control. You know, it listens a little better than
Speaker 2: that hook.
Speaker 1: They say, yeah, yeah, I think I grew up playing
Speaker 1: a draw, and you're exactly right. And then one of
Speaker 1: the best things I did was I got my game
Speaker 1: to where I just never think about hitting the ball
Speaker 1: left and I hit a little fade. And my favorite
Speaker 1: thing is when you miss, when you miss right, and
Speaker 1: with a fade, it just sits immediately. You know, you
Speaker 1: hit that high right poofball. And then if you hit
Speaker 1: the hard hook, as soon as it hits the ground,
Speaker 1: you got fifteen. It misses fifteen two yards more or left.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. You know, first of all, say you're
Speaker 2: hitting a five r and into a green and you
Speaker 2: hit a kind of a hard draw, it's going to
Speaker 2: run through the back left of the green every time.
Speaker 2: More than likely, if you hit it in the left
Speaker 2: center of the fairway, she's gonna run right on out
Speaker 2: of that fairway every time. So that cut doesn't And
Speaker 2: you know, when I was playing my best golf in
Speaker 2: the eighties, my I kind of hit a little straight ball,
Speaker 2: a little tiny cut. But the shot I hated with
Speaker 2: a passion was that kind of little heey cut fade.
Speaker 2: But you know the difference it it may it stayed
Speaker 2: in the faraway every time I and I won some
Speaker 2: tournaments with that horrible shot that I hated, But I
Speaker 2: could find it every time in the fairway. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though it's not your favorite shot, you find it.
Speaker 1: It might be twenty yards short, but you're playing from
Speaker 1: the fairway. I mean, you don't make a lot of
Speaker 1: bogies from the fairway.
Speaker 2: Well, and there's a good comment which you meant it
Speaker 2: might be a little shorter, yes, but it is in
Speaker 2: the fairway. And remember in our day, we didn't have
Speaker 2: anybody that because of the equipment. You couldn't. You just didn't.
Speaker 2: You didn't hit it farther than anybody else. I never
Speaker 2: felt like I couldn't compete against anybody because they hit
Speaker 2: it a little bit farther than I did. Because nobody
Speaker 2: launched it thirty or forty yards by you. The first
Speaker 2: guy that did that that ever came on the scene
Speaker 2: was John Daly, and those who when I was coming up,
Speaker 2: those who were maybe big six six launchers of the
Speaker 2: golf ball. You know, they weren't considered great players because
Speaker 2: they hit it so far. The balls spun so much,
Speaker 2: they didn't hit many fairways. And so that's how the
Speaker 2: game has changed.
Speaker 1: A guy that would remind me of from your era,
Speaker 1: like Dan Pole? Would that be a guy that would
Speaker 1: fit that description.
Speaker 2: You know, Dan Pole was a better strike of the
Speaker 2: ball than his career ever showed because of what we
Speaker 2: were talking about. He kind of hit a little drop
Speaker 2: fade every time he had a short swim baseball swing.
Speaker 2: He was a baseball player, very very fast hands, but
Speaker 2: kind of almost a little blocker if I remember correctly now,
Speaker 2: and so he drove the ball pretty well. I don't
Speaker 2: know if Dan was a great put or not. I
Speaker 2: don't remember, but Dan did a lot of TV when
Speaker 2: he stopped playing. But Dan Poll, here's a stat where
Speaker 2: he won the driving distance and I think it was
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight. Don't hold me to these facts. Nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty eight he won the driving distance on tour and
Speaker 2: his distance was like two eighty seven or too eighty eight,
Speaker 2: and that was it. I but that changed for a distance,
Speaker 2: yeah a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're to eighty eight, your your bottom
Speaker 1: of the tour.
Speaker 2: Now bottom of the tour. And with bryceon averages three
Speaker 2: p fifty last week, seventy sixty five yards difference. That's
Speaker 2: all because.
Speaker 1: The shorter hitters in the eighties were two forty two
Speaker 1: fifty compared to to eighty.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I was pretty much the middle of the field,
Speaker 2: very average, maybe maybe a smission below average. And I
Speaker 2: was like two fifty five or two fifty six. And
Speaker 2: you know I made my living with with four, five
Speaker 2: and six irons. I mean, seriously, you know a four
Speaker 2: forty four fifty park par four was a four or
Speaker 2: five iron, maybe a six iron. All day long golf
Speaker 2: courses like Firestone, h Augusta was long in cases when
Speaker 2: it when it when it got cool in the spring,
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach, well, Pebble Beach went long, but there was
Speaker 2: some courses out there. I mean just there were certain
Speaker 2: golf courses. Mirefield Village in the spring when it was
Speaker 2: cool was a long golf course and it was four
Speaker 2: or five or six irons all day long, every day.
Speaker 1: Uh to Bryson, you hit on obviously, he unbelievable performance.
Speaker 1: You know, goes mist and beyond the three fifty drives
Speaker 1: was the incredible putting.
Speaker 2: You know what. I He's been the talk of every
Speaker 2: golf for the last really kind of a couple of
Speaker 2: two or three weeks, and especially after this week. You know,
Speaker 2: there's there's First of all, I think he's showing the world.
Speaker 2: Now I'm a titlest guy. Okay, I'm a titless ball guy.
Speaker 2: And I've always been very careful on, you know, saying
Speaker 2: talking about the ball because they don't they used to
Speaker 2: pay me, so you can't criticize the hand that feature.
Speaker 2: But the point of the fact is he's showing the
Speaker 2: world of golf that it's just not all about the
Speaker 2: golf ball and the driver. Now it's a big part
Speaker 2: of it, trust me, a huge part of it, the
Speaker 2: majority part of it. But the part of the equation
Speaker 2: that has never gotten enough attention in this ball that
Speaker 2: goes so far is the ability of these kids and
Speaker 2: the speed that they create, okay, and the accuracy in
Speaker 2: which they hit it with the speed. I walked for
Speaker 2: Fox the last four years on the in the US Open.
Speaker 2: I've seen it firsthand. I saw Dustin Johnson carry the
Speaker 2: three wood at arian Aaron Hill's three forty three point
Speaker 2: thirty something up the hill on the last hall of
Speaker 2: the Freewood one day. I mean, it's incredible stuff. But
Speaker 2: when you see what Bryson has done, He's gone from
Speaker 2: you know, a nice hitter, you know, a nice plenty
Speaker 2: of length to putting on muscle, gaining speed. But more
Speaker 2: so than anything else, Now I'm not a physicist, but
Speaker 2: it's the mass that he's moving. It's the forty pounds
Speaker 2: that he's put on that I never knew about. But
Speaker 2: when you add masks and speed, the ball will go farther.
Speaker 2: It's not about flexibility more. It's not all about strength.
Speaker 2: It's about the mass and moving that mass and having
Speaker 2: the strength to support it. Now, some of you might
Speaker 2: have proved me wrong in what I just said, but
Speaker 2: it looks like that's what it is to me. And
Speaker 2: plus he's trying to hit it bloody hard every time,
Speaker 2: but he's driving it. I saw it this morning. He's
Speaker 2: hitting sixty three percent of the fairways or something that's
Speaker 2: good on a on a normal for a normal person,
Speaker 2: seventy percent was very accurate on tour. And so he's
Speaker 2: proven all these people wrong that said it was just
Speaker 2: about the golf ball driver. It's about the athleticism of
Speaker 2: these players and the speed in which they create and
Speaker 2: he kind of marveling I do. Okay, he's a little different. Well,
Speaker 2: we're all a little different. Okay, we're all type a
Speaker 2: different ego maniacs and very we're ego maniacs on tour,
Speaker 2: and we're also the most insecure individuals on the planet
Speaker 2: with our golf poings. So that if that isn't a contradition,
Speaker 2: but it's he he's kind of figured something out here.
Speaker 2: And don't think you might not have somebody else try
Speaker 2: the same thing in the next year or two or three,
Speaker 2: because it seems to work. My question, I have two
Speaker 2: questions with this. I'm rambling now, but I have two
Speaker 2: questions with Bryce. One when you try to hit it
Speaker 2: so hard every time? How long would that last? Okay,
Speaker 2: now all it has to last is eight years, and
Speaker 2: then he'll blee be you know, maybe a twenty five
Speaker 2: time winner, thirty time winner and five majors, who knows
Speaker 2: what's going to be, what the future holds for him.
Speaker 2: But the other thing is, well, it is Will's body.
Speaker 2: Hold up, Oh, I know the short game. When you
Speaker 2: put on this mass and you change your body structure,
Speaker 2: do you change your feel? I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: your feel is born within you. It's bred within you,
Speaker 2: so it might change a smidgeon. But some people will
Speaker 2: question that will it change is for you? I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that because my body
Speaker 2: never changed. But if it does, you'll have to contend
Speaker 2: with that. But you know, he's a smart enough guy.
Speaker 2: He'll he'll take care of every every stone will go
Speaker 2: will be unturned with Bryce, And trust me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you hit the accuracy is unbelievable. And
Speaker 1: I think you know, one of the things that gets
Speaker 1: lost a little bit with the distance debate is that.
Speaker 2: Well, with accuracy, and with accuracy I always thought, now
Speaker 2: within control. But the harder you hit it the straighter,
Speaker 2: you should hit it with a driver because everything is
Speaker 2: straightened out. Okay, if you're in control. I you know,
Speaker 2: whenever you start to get manipulative and hit it's eighty
Speaker 2: percent or seventy five percent, that's when you your body doesn't react,
Speaker 2: you're putting it in positions. But when you swing ninety
Speaker 2: ninety five percent, everything straightens out an impact, And if
Speaker 2: you have a good swing, a good grip, a swing
Speaker 2: that's on plane, it should go just the straightest it's
Speaker 2: ever going to go. And so yeah, as long as
Speaker 2: he's in control of the swing, he should drive it
Speaker 2: as straight as he used to. The only difference is
Speaker 2: the farther the ball goes. You know, with physics, the
Speaker 2: more it can go offline just with just the cheer
Speaker 2: numbers of it. But he's really driving it pretty straight
Speaker 2: for as hard as he's hitting it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to create that speed you have to be
Speaker 1: pretty fundamentally sound.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, yes. You can't do it with just
Speaker 2: upper body. You can't do it with just arms and hands.
Speaker 2: Everything's moving, you know. It starts in the ground up
Speaker 2: the weight shift to the left, the lower body, the
Speaker 2: upper middle tor so you know, it's just and he
Speaker 2: seems to be doing even that with himself. Remember he's
Speaker 2: a golf machine guy. He's a very very mechanical guy
Speaker 2: in his swing. And I personally didn't know a guy
Speaker 2: that I shouldn't speak for him because it could be wrong,
Speaker 2: But a golf machine theorist is very mechanical, so therefore
Speaker 2: you're thinking about positions so much so I always wondered
Speaker 2: if you could swing as hard as you wanted to
Speaker 2: think about positions. But he seems to be free wheeling
Speaker 2: it and not encumbered with with positions right now, which
Speaker 2: is what he used to be.
Speaker 1: Did you play a bunch with Bobby Klampett, who's obviously
Speaker 1: a golf machine guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. Yeah, I played with him. You know,
Speaker 2: I was. I didn't play with him a lot, but
Speaker 2: you know, I was already established on tour when this
Speaker 2: this can't miss kid was winning all these amateur tournaments
Speaker 2: and he was long. He wasn't big, but we knew
Speaker 2: he was long. And he played in a couple of
Speaker 2: tournaments as an amateur, being from the West Coast, and
Speaker 2: you know he was. That was my introduction to the
Speaker 2: kind of the golf machine theory theory. I don't even
Speaker 2: know if it's a theory or not, I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is. But and so he comes out and
Speaker 2: everybody's kind of intrigued. What is this guy? You know,
Speaker 2: he's got this tremendous lag and impact. I also did
Speaker 2: some clinics and played with him a little bit when
Speaker 2: he started going bad. And what he did was I
Speaker 2: think he overdid the golf machine. But I don't know
Speaker 2: for a fact, but yeah, I was, I knew and
Speaker 2: saw Bobby come up and then fall off the face
Speaker 2: of the earth.
Speaker 1: It seemed like that open where he was leading by,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't remember how much, but through two
Speaker 1: rounds was and then he kind of blew it coming
Speaker 1: down the street. Maybe it might have been Sandy Lyles
Speaker 1: when I can't remember who won that year, But that
Speaker 1: really had a lasting impact on him.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, it really shouldn't have, because every
Speaker 2: we all lose big tournaments throughout our career, especially when
Speaker 2: we're inexperienced. The pressure in a major championship is so
Speaker 2: amplified over a regular tour event, and a regular tour
Speaker 2: event is plenty. I mean, you couldn't spit if you
Speaker 2: had a gun to your head in a regular tour
Speaker 2: event when you're coming down the stretch and early on
Speaker 2: in your career and then you throw yourself in a major.
Speaker 2: It's so I might disagree with that that it had
Speaker 2: a huge effect. If anything else, if nothing else, you
Speaker 2: should have learned from it. Okay, you know, what did
Speaker 2: I do wrong? How can I improve? What did I
Speaker 2: learn from? The pressure? Uh? Affecting my body, my swing, speed,
Speaker 2: my thought process, all that stuff. You you you take
Speaker 2: an account many cases subconsciously, and so the next time
Speaker 2: you get in position, you learn from your mistakes before prior.
Speaker 2: And so I disagree that it had a huge impact. Yeah,
Speaker 2: later on, Uh, you know, we all get disappointed, but
Speaker 2: you have to get back up the next day and
Speaker 2: go work.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I think on every single level
Speaker 1: of golf that that helps, even like your you know,
Speaker 1: eight handicap out of the club on weekends and loses
Speaker 1: a you know, a net club championship, because the next
Speaker 1: year he's in that position, he's going to do better.
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, you know, the eighty five Masters is
Speaker 1: obviously one that in your career that kind of may
Speaker 1: might have gotten away a little bit, but it's also
Speaker 1: one of the craziest stories shooting eighty in the first
Speaker 1: round and then having a two shot lead on Sunday
Speaker 1: on the back nine at Augusta. Is that the tournament
Speaker 1: that you kind of think back to most and kind
Speaker 1: of long for a do over? And also how did
Speaker 1: that you know, speaking about what you just talked about,
Speaker 1: how did that tournament have a positive impact on you
Speaker 1: on your career?
Speaker 2: Well, that's when we just talked about Bobby Clamping and
Speaker 2: the Open Championship with the laws, that's you know, I
Speaker 2: can speak from experience. Yeah, you know, you you're disappointed.
Speaker 2: I mean you you know you you feel terrible for
Speaker 2: a while. And I knew the best thing I could do,
Speaker 2: and people told me that is get your ass up,
Speaker 2: get back on the golf course as soon as you can,
Speaker 2: and get in contention. That we all want to get
Speaker 2: in contention, but in contention as soon as you can,
Speaker 2: and you know, and and learn from it. Just kind
Speaker 2: of get up and go. And I did. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's that's the way I am. But yeah, eighty five,
Speaker 2: I we had just had our second baby, and Sarah
Speaker 2: wasn't there, and so I was there with a couple
Speaker 2: of friends and so shot eighty the first round, had,
Speaker 2: you know, was disappointed because I was playing well. I
Speaker 2: already won once or twice that year, and and but
Speaker 2: I'd made playing reservations to get home Friday late and
Speaker 2: you know, be with our second son, who would just arrived.
Speaker 2: But I shot sixty five the next day and jump
Speaker 2: back in contention. The scores weren't real low that year,
Speaker 2: so I jumped right back, kind of not in to
Speaker 2: make the cut or anything, but kind of got back
Speaker 2: in contention. And then the shot sixty eighth Saturday. And
Speaker 2: I know all these details, but anyway, I'm still behind
Speaker 2: Raymond Floyd. But I'm in the last group, and next
Speaker 2: thing I know, I'm on the tenth t with a
Speaker 2: four shot lead. And so uh, but the pressure, I've
Speaker 2: never felt anything like that. I you know, I knew
Speaker 2: how to play off. You'd play golf. You've been successful
Speaker 2: throughout you know, the different stages of your career, and
Speaker 2: and so I knew what to do. You breathe number one?
Speaker 2: People say, what do you mean you breathe? Number one?
Speaker 2: You make sure you breathe in deeply and out deeply,
Speaker 2: and just kind of take your time. And you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't play terribly on the backside, but I lost,
Speaker 2: and uh, and give a lot of credit to Bernhard
Speaker 2: Langer who won. But it was hard. It was hard,
Speaker 2: and it is the one I think about that got away.
Speaker 2: I was very fortunate that many didn't get away from me.
Speaker 2: And I don't say that I didn't. I didn't get
Speaker 2: all that many chances to win, but I felt like
Speaker 2: I took advantage when I when I had a chance
Speaker 2: to win. And but that is the one that I
Speaker 2: think about, and it's it was. As much as we
Speaker 2: all dearly love the Masters in Augusta National, it would
Speaker 2: have been great to to go back there forever and
Speaker 2: put on a green jacket. But hey, it all works
Speaker 2: out in the end, and I can't dwell on it
Speaker 2: too much because we all lose a whole lot more
Speaker 2: than we went on tour. And that's why you have
Speaker 2: to be somewhat tough mentally, because the golf beat you up,
Speaker 2: the competition beats you up. You're playing against the best
Speaker 2: of the world every day, and you have to prove
Speaker 2: yourself every single day. You're only you know this is harsh,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I'm only as good as my
Speaker 2: last shot or my last round, And so I did
Speaker 2: beat myself up a lot, but the Masters was one
Speaker 2: that was the one that I wish I had maybe
Speaker 2: a do over it too.
Speaker 1: We talked just before about how much the games changed
Speaker 1: from a distance standpoint. I read an old SI article
Speaker 1: about that round and you were hitting a forward on
Speaker 1: thirteen from a hanging live to ten and you think about,
Speaker 1: you know, or thirteen today, like what Bryson might do
Speaker 1: this year is obviously everybody's talk about it. You might
Speaker 1: be hitting the lob wedgeon.
Speaker 2: Well. And I had a good drib too, you know.
Speaker 2: I got up there and you talked about earlier not
Speaker 2: worrying about the ball going left. You know, I had
Speaker 2: to hit it at three in the day, those three
Speaker 2: pine trees out there on the other side of the fairway,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't drive it through the fairway. Okay, on
Speaker 2: my line, I couldn't drive it through the fairway. Now
Speaker 2: you're up in the pines draw a lot, but and
Speaker 2: I hit a really good drib. I hit it at
Speaker 2: that middle pine is she hits the fairway and jumps
Speaker 2: a little bit to the left, and I think I
Speaker 2: had what two to eight or two eighteen something like that.
Speaker 2: It was a perfect fourwood off the hanging lie and
Speaker 2: it would carry plenty over the creek, and I just
Speaker 2: hung it a little bit. And people that never been
Speaker 2: there don't understand the slope in that fairway. These guys
Speaker 2: make it look easy, but it really isn't, and is
Speaker 2: how you get out there and practice. But I hung
Speaker 2: it to the right, and so the one shot I
Speaker 2: wish now, I wish I had the second shot there back,
Speaker 2: and the second shot at fifteen, of course, but the
Speaker 2: third shot out of the water at thirteen is one
Speaker 2: that was such a simple shot. Just hit it like
Speaker 2: a semi buried, semi buried bunker shot. And I didn't
Speaker 2: hit it hard enough and it didn't get out and
Speaker 2: I end up making bogie. But that's one I would
Speaker 2: like to have back because that was just a simple
Speaker 2: shot that we all have hit over the years, and
Speaker 2: not a lot, but you know how to hit it.
Speaker 2: So's that's one of three or four or five or
Speaker 2: six that i'd want back with the back. But you know,
Speaker 2: you learn, you know what, I have won two US Opens.
Speaker 2: If i'd won there, who the hell knows, But I
Speaker 2: go back there, you know, still work for ESPN there
Speaker 2: every year, and I don't think about it often, But
Speaker 2: when you go back to Augusta every year, it seems
Speaker 2: to come up, and it seems to come up, and
Speaker 2: uh in a good way, in a good way. But
Speaker 2: it would have been it would have been a wonderful
Speaker 2: story to shoot eighty and win. I don't give a
Speaker 2: I don't give a rats asset if I shoot eighty
Speaker 2: and win or not. I just want to win. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was it was one of those times.
Speaker 1: Yep, it's it would have been an incredible I uh
Speaker 1: for that hanging lie. It's funny. I was playing last
Speaker 1: week with a buddy who's who plays on tour, and
Speaker 1: I had a hanging lie. It's very similar to that
Speaker 1: one you might see at thirteen and apart five and
Speaker 1: I had to I was trying to hit a three iron.
Speaker 1: It came out low, it didn't carry over this bunker
Speaker 1: that I had to carry over. And I turned to him,
Speaker 1: I go, how how do you hit that thing high?
Speaker 1: And he goes, you know, Andy, you got to play
Speaker 1: a lot more off than you play to hit that high.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, and you know strength and be
Speaker 2: able to do it and and and trust me, sometimes
Speaker 2: it just won't come out high. It will come in hot.
Speaker 2: It's will come in hot and low, and you gotta
Speaker 2: you know, you gotta account for that. But you know
Speaker 2: that's that's the beauty of Augusta. I don't think you
Speaker 2: get a level lie on the entire golf course. And
Speaker 2: that's the part of it that the camera angles and
Speaker 2: the camera which flattens the two D camera flattens everything.
Speaker 2: And it's just hard to describe, uh, the little nuances
Speaker 2: around Augusta National that make it tough.
Speaker 1: Do you think that those uneven lies, especially today with power,
Speaker 1: do you feel that uneven lies throwing kind of scored
Speaker 1: a par out the window? Because I don't think that
Speaker 1: really matters anymore. It's completely different game than when all
Speaker 1: these pars were established. Do you feel like level lies
Speaker 1: is probably the best way to test the best players
Speaker 1: in the game now?
Speaker 2: Uh, it certainly throws up you know, kink and and
Speaker 2: your every day just kind of flat Florida course. Yeah,
Speaker 2: excuse me. It's just one of the things that as
Speaker 2: a professional you learn to adjust every shot and and
Speaker 2: and deal with it. Uh. Wind, not so much rain,
Speaker 2: but wind, hard conditions. Uh, unlevel lies, a lot of rough.
Speaker 2: All these things are elements that make the game tough.
Speaker 2: That's why the US Open and maybe sometimes the Open
Speaker 2: Championship are the toughest test because there is a lot
Speaker 2: of rock, a lot of a lot of rough and
Speaker 2: accuracy is as a priority and if you don't, if
Speaker 2: you make mistakes, your your mistakes are magnified. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just it's it's a game played outdoors. And sometimes
Speaker 2: if it's like it looked like this past week with
Speaker 2: Bryson and mean, it looked like it was a game
Speaker 2: played in a dome. It looked like there was no wind,
Speaker 2: the weather was perfect, it was hot, the ball goes.
Speaker 2: All the above makes it easy, but hitting it three
Speaker 2: fifty off the team makes it so much easier. And
Speaker 2: so now you go compare Bryan Bryson, if you could
Speaker 2: average three thirty three forty three fifty Augusta, Augusta being
Speaker 2: a second shot golf course, okay, very very little off
Speaker 2: wider corridors than any other golf course. So it's a
Speaker 2: second shot golf course with the undulating greens that they have,
Speaker 2: and they're so hard and fast. So now he's coming
Speaker 2: in with such a shorter club than the average guy.
Speaker 2: It just makes the game easier at Augusta National. You know,
Speaker 2: if he's coming in with a non iron and I'm
Speaker 2: back there hitting a five iron, guess who's gonna win?
Speaker 2: Bryce every time? And the putting is so different, I
Speaker 2: tweeted out yesterday, if I was Bryson when I got
Speaker 2: to Augusta this year, I would, knowing what I know
Speaker 2: now at sixty five years old, I would hit a
Speaker 2: few balls, not play eighteen or play nine holes, whatever
Speaker 2: they do. But I would spend twice as much time,
Speaker 2: half my time, twice as much time as I normally
Speaker 2: do on the putting green to get used to the speed,
Speaker 2: to feel to feel really comfortable Thursday morning, ready to play.
Speaker 2: I never felt really comfortable at Augusta until maybe Friday
Speaker 2: afternoon or Saturday, because now, you know, you get four
Speaker 2: or five days under your belt and you're getting used
Speaker 2: to the speed. But that's how fast they were in
Speaker 2: the day compared to other greens. Now there's a lot
Speaker 2: of greens fast, but they're still the fastest. Augusts are
Speaker 2: still the fastest with the most undulation. So therefore there's
Speaker 2: putts out there that are so much faster than you've
Speaker 2: seen all year long, and they're actually frightening at times.
Speaker 2: You wonder sometime you look at a putt and say,
Speaker 2: how the hell, when is this ball going to stop?
Speaker 2: And it does. But I would get out there at
Speaker 2: boxing Bryce and spend a lot of time on that putting,
Speaker 2: green putting, swooping putts, downhill putts. So he's comfortable because
Speaker 2: if he makes a few putts and he drives it well,
Speaker 2: it can be tough to beat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you just hit on that. One of
Speaker 1: the things that makes it's so tough is that fear factor.
Speaker 1: It's just like the golf swing you alluded to earlier,
Speaker 1: where when you go eighty percent instead of ninety five,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your body doesn't react it. And
Speaker 1: I feel like getting defensive on the greens is one
Speaker 1: of the worst things that can happen to your putting
Speaker 1: in a tournament setting.
Speaker 2: Especially well, boy, great point there you do. And that
Speaker 2: brought up another thought. I putted a lot of putts
Speaker 2: in Augustus so defensively just because of speed, and therefore
Speaker 2: you stroke even changes, you take it back slower, you
Speaker 2: go through slower, and now you're manipulating the putter and
Speaker 2: you don't you don't put by feel and therefore you
Speaker 2: don't put as well. It was some of them were
Speaker 2: I'm telling you some of them. You looked at it
Speaker 2: and say wow, and then you don't. You don't show that,
Speaker 2: you don't. Nobody can sense that, but you just go,
Speaker 2: my wow, where is this ball gonna stop? Yeah? One
Speaker 2: of the great stories. One of the great stories. Sabby
Speaker 2: four putts from about four feet at sixteen one year
Speaker 2: and he goes the press room, Hey, sebb, how did
Speaker 2: your four putts? Sixteen? Am? I? Me? I? Me? I
Speaker 2: make In other words, enough of these silly questions, you know.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Seve. So you had some you had some
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup matches with Seve, and I read that there's
Speaker 1: a little bit of gamesmanship from Seve. Talk about Seve
Speaker 1: in the Ryder Cup. He kind of was a foil
Speaker 1: to Americans, and I'd love to hear a little bit
Speaker 1: about the gamesmanship and some of the things he would
Speaker 1: do to get under people's skin.
Speaker 2: Well, you're exactly right, and that was just Sevy. Uh.
Speaker 2: You couldn't take it personally, but I did. He You
Speaker 2: know what would always pissed me off about Sebby And
Speaker 2: it's nothing personal. I like the guy who was such
Speaker 2: a competitor, and he was. He was the backbone of
Speaker 2: the entire Rotti Cup, not research Surgeon's up in Europe. Uh,
Speaker 2: he was their leader. But you know, he he thrived
Speaker 2: on some of the gamesmanship that you you might think
Speaker 2: that happens in mash play, and it does. What pissed
Speaker 2: me off so much is that I knew that he
Speaker 2: had gotten to me, and I knew it was coming,
Speaker 2: and I still let it affect me. And so that's
Speaker 2: a that's a problem with me. Uh it's not a
Speaker 2: problem with him, but it's a problem with me. And
Speaker 2: that's the way he but he throbbed on it, and
Speaker 2: he knew when he'd gotten to you, and I got
Speaker 2: I got a flaud him for doing that. That's you
Speaker 2: knew he was coming with it and he got to you.
Speaker 2: And so uh, I say that with a big grin
Speaker 2: on my face because uh, you know, gosh, we miss
Speaker 2: him and what a what a charismatic guy he was,
Speaker 2: and what a great player. Unfortunately he lost his game.
Speaker 2: I never could understand why he didn't drive it or
Speaker 2: hit it any straight because he had a good swing,
Speaker 2: great grip swing. It looked like it was online the
Speaker 2: whole way, but in the later years he didn't hit
Speaker 2: it very straight. But anyway, he was such a force
Speaker 2: in the Rotterer Cup. And you know, I'm asked all
Speaker 2: the time, when did europe become a force? Why did
Speaker 2: they become a force. And I'll tell you why they
Speaker 2: became a force. Sevy, Nick, Faldo, Ian, Rusnam, Bernhard Langer,
Speaker 2: Sandy Nick, Sevy, Ian and Bernhardt five of the top fifth, twelve, ten, twelve,
Speaker 2: fifteen in the world. It's a pretty good nucleus to
Speaker 2: have when you're a roder Clip team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were playing your best golf most of
Speaker 1: the top end players, you were kind of the only
Speaker 1: American that was challenging those that European crop for a
Speaker 1: couple of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what that was. I mean, we
Speaker 2: had we had you know, Greg and Sevy and then
Speaker 2: that crop of European players, and then you know, Tom
Speaker 2: Watson was still playing, you know, really really well and
Speaker 2: winning tournaments, and and heyo Irwin and uh a lot
Speaker 2: of younger players. I mean, I guess the US opens
Speaker 2: thrust me in front, but I didn't never feel that way.
Speaker 2: I always felt I was just one of many. I
Speaker 2: never put myself thought of myself as better than those
Speaker 2: guys who were you know, look at Tom Watson and
Speaker 2: his you know, tremendous career, UH and and I just
Speaker 2: I never I never did that. I just that wasn't
Speaker 2: the way I believe. I, Like I said, you're trying
Speaker 2: to prove yourself every day, and and that's what I
Speaker 2: tried to do.
Speaker 1: Was with Stevey in Ryder Cups? Was was that style
Speaker 1: that where he was never seemingly in the fairway? And
Speaker 1: was that part of the frustration of playing against him?
Speaker 2: No, I never sense that at all. You know, I
Speaker 2: played with him numerous other times and in major tournaments
Speaker 2: and not you know, you didn't. I didn't pay any
Speaker 2: attention to anybody else playing with UH, Nor did I
Speaker 2: play against anybody. I'm out there doing the best I can. UH.
Speaker 2: You learn that early on is that you're playing against
Speaker 2: some people you feel like you should beat. You're playing
Speaker 2: against some of the guys that you admire and greatly
Speaker 2: greatly admire for their long career. But I didn't. I
Speaker 2: didn't care who I was playing with. Certainly the better competition,
Speaker 2: the bigger name, inspired you to do well. But I
Speaker 2: didn't never look at anybody's swing. I was into myself.
Speaker 2: I was into my game and just doing what I
Speaker 2: thought I knew how to do.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the eighteen hole playoff
Speaker 1: at your one of your US Open wins with Faldo
Speaker 1: and how that compared, like pressure wise, that Monday eighteen
Speaker 1: hole playoff versus a Sunday final round.
Speaker 2: U magnified. And you're right, I mean a Sunday final
Speaker 2: round head to head against a world class player is
Speaker 2: it's not like a playoff because there's other players that
Speaker 2: could come from behind and win. So in that respect,
Speaker 2: it was a little different. But you know, you don't
Speaker 2: sleep the night before. You're anxious, you're on point. You
Speaker 2: know every shot you hit the next day is going
Speaker 2: to be magnified. But you don't dwell on that. You know,
Speaker 2: you try to do the best you can and you
Speaker 2: prepare the next morning. The longest time for any professional
Speaker 2: golfer is that from the time he gets up to
Speaker 2: the time he tees off, and it's the most boring.
Speaker 2: It lasts forever. Say you get up at eight o'clock
Speaker 2: on Monday morning for the playoff in the US Opening,
Speaker 2: you don't tee off till two a two thirty. It's
Speaker 2: an eternity. But once I get to the golf course
Speaker 2: and got to the practice tee, it was game on.
Speaker 2: That's now you're now you're in your comfort zone. So
Speaker 2: you try to do the whole thing. You're anxious, you're
Speaker 2: you know, I never got comfortable all day long. I
Speaker 2: really didn't because you know that each shot, this next
Speaker 2: shot could could win or lose your dream tournament. So, uh,
Speaker 2: you get to the first tee and I was nervous,
Speaker 2: but you now, you do what you know how to do.
Speaker 2: You go play golf, and uh, I played. I really
Speaker 2: chipped and putted well, so winning. We got up that
Speaker 2: day and it was breezier in Boston that ordinarily it
Speaker 2: would be in a hot summer day June day, so
Speaker 2: I knew it was gonna be harder. You know, it's
Speaker 2: a US opened set up courses, fast and firm, so
Speaker 2: there's gonna be there's gonna be some miss greens and
Speaker 2: I missed some greens, but I really chipped and putted well,
Speaker 2: and uh, and you know, we had a we had
Speaker 2: a great day. And you know how many wards were said,
Speaker 2: zero between the two of us, And that's exactly the
Speaker 2: way I wanted it and the way it should have been.
Speaker 2: Two guys going head to head and what I think
Speaker 2: is the greatest championship in the world. Nick thinks it
Speaker 2: is the second greatest championship in the world. And trying
Speaker 2: to trying to win, trying to win, and uh, it was.
Speaker 2: It was good competition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and then so you win the
Speaker 1: next year also and uh and then but dinah, you
Speaker 1: had you were in the hunt there for a three peat?
Speaker 1: Was it? I read somewhere that the it was really
Speaker 1: soft comparatively to you know, your traditional US Open setup.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to o Kill that Monday, and it
Speaker 2: was hard and fast, and it was a tremendous amount
Speaker 2: of rough. It was the old style US Open setup.
Speaker 2: Greens were hard and fast. A lot of sloping greens,
Speaker 2: not a lot of not a lot of like Augustin
Speaker 2: National bumps and mounds and bruises, but just a lot
Speaker 2: of slope from back to front of a lot of
Speaker 2: the greens. So we're going, Wow, this is really hard.
Speaker 2: This is really hard. Fair drives are running out of
Speaker 2: fairways into the rough. And then we got like three
Speaker 2: inches of rain on It was Tuesday night. I think
Speaker 2: earlier in the week, Tuesday night we got an enormous
Speaker 2: amount of rain and the whole setup changed, and from
Speaker 2: a player's standpoint, you felt like now you could play,
Speaker 2: You could play more golf versus play so defensive and
Speaker 2: know you're gonna get screwed a couple of times out
Speaker 2: there because of the firmness, and the whole thing changed.
Speaker 2: In my mind, it changed that now we'll be able
Speaker 2: to drive it in all the fairways and keep these
Speaker 2: longer irons on these greens easier than before. And it's
Speaker 2: exactly what happened. I didn't I didn't miss many fairways
Speaker 2: all week long. I really drove it well. Uh, the
Speaker 2: second round won me the golf term. I shot sixty
Speaker 2: four and that's the and so now I'm just hanging on.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it turned out well. But it did change overnight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in your mind, I guess you know there in
Speaker 1: that era there are a lot of US Open players
Speaker 1: where you know, like a Scott Simpson seemingly was always
Speaker 1: in the hunt. You were obviously a great US Open player.
Speaker 1: Fell was there a certain style that really thrived in
Speaker 1: US Opens? And do you feel like in covering the
Speaker 1: US Open the last few years that it's it's changed
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the style was you better put it in the
Speaker 2: fairway off the tee because remember we nobody dominated in length,
Speaker 2: and the roof was such back in the day that
Speaker 2: if we drove it in the rough, it was tough
Speaker 2: to get it anywhere near the green because we weren't strong.
Speaker 2: The ball didn't go. You couldn't overpower rough like that,
Speaker 2: so you mostly most of the time couldn't get it
Speaker 2: to the green. So then you had to get it
Speaker 2: up and down. Now with the US Open setups, it's
Speaker 2: so much different that that I don't agree with. But
Speaker 2: a little bit wider fairways and a first cut that's
Speaker 2: six eight ten steps wider that you can play out of.
Speaker 2: And plus these players are bigger and stronger than we were,
Speaker 2: so the whole, the whole thing is easier. But that's
Speaker 2: another conversation for another day. But it was so you
Speaker 2: had to put it in a fairway, and then there
Speaker 2: was always a lot of rough around the greens and
Speaker 2: you had to put it on the green. It was
Speaker 2: tough to get it up and down from three or
Speaker 2: four inches of rough, you know, and you into a hard,
Speaker 2: fast green. So the whole thing was so different. And
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 2: runoff areas now around US open golf courses, which if
Speaker 2: the golf course doesn't set up to that, why do
Speaker 2: that and why to me have a runoff area when
Speaker 2: the rest of the golf course has rough around it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of manipulating the golf course where the architect
Speaker 2: I didn't think had that in mind. But that's again
Speaker 2: another story. But anyway, so priority was to put it
Speaker 2: in the fairway and put it on the green, and
Speaker 2: that's what you that's what you try to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think the runoff areas
Speaker 1: are they have to obviously fit. It's it's an interesting
Speaker 1: debate whether obviously there's if your short game around the
Speaker 1: green and rough requires a certain type of skill, and
Speaker 1: then short grass around the green it requires a different
Speaker 1: type you know, different shots. It opens up way more
Speaker 1: shots and recovery options for players. But you could say
Speaker 1: that if the more skilled player might separate themselves even
Speaker 1: more from short short grass.
Speaker 2: You know, I I a will debate that with you.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that don't know how to
Speaker 2: hit it out of the rough. But it is a skill.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there luck involved with is luck involved
Speaker 2: in everything? But you're trying to penalize a poor second shot.
Speaker 2: And what I don't like is that, first of all,
Speaker 2: if it's if it's just a if it's not a
Speaker 2: poor shot, if it's just shot, it's not exactly accurate.
Speaker 2: I don't like balls running away from the green twenty
Speaker 2: and that's not you know, if the whole golf course
Speaker 2: is set up like that, like a Pinehurst, that's perfectly okay.
Speaker 2: But when you go around a golf course and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the fourteenth hole is a perched up
Speaker 2: green and now you have runoff everywhere, whereas the other
Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen holes you have rough, and now you manipulate.
Speaker 2: You're changing the whole concept of the setup. And it's
Speaker 2: just my mic theorya of setting up a golf course.
Speaker 2: But it's become in vogue. It's been around for a
Speaker 2: long time. The Players Championship has a lot of runoff area,
Speaker 2: but that's the way the golf course was originally set up.
Speaker 2: And they've gone back and forth a little bit on
Speaker 2: rough or runoff, but there's still a lot of runoff.
Speaker 2: When we go to Pebble Beach and this past year
Speaker 2: they didn't have one or two runoffs and that's okay.
Speaker 2: The prior US Open they had a lot of runoff
Speaker 2: and that's not the way anyway. Let's just be consistent
Speaker 2: with what I'm trying to say and whatever's in vogue.
Speaker 2: I know it changes, but you know, US Open to me,
Speaker 2: is supposed to be the hardest championship in our country
Speaker 2: because it's our national championship. It should test every bit
Speaker 2: of your skill and ability and you should be exhausted
Speaker 2: on Monday morning after playing the US Open. And that's
Speaker 2: the way I believe it should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with the consistency thing because it looks
Speaker 1: stupid too when you have one runoff on eighteen holes
Speaker 1: or two runoffs and you don't have them everywhere else.
Speaker 2: And I was remissed by not mentioning Aaron Hills was
Speaker 2: all run off as well. That was good, that was fun.
Speaker 2: You know, Aaron Hills was not a bad golf course.
Speaker 2: It was just we had perfect weather all week long
Speaker 2: and that's why we shot those scores. But anyway, it's
Speaker 2: not a historical, traditional golf course, but it was it
Speaker 2: was a nice challenge for the guys.
Speaker 1: Hey, I wanted to talk about eighty four. You finished
Speaker 1: third at Wingfoot and you know, as just behind Norman
Speaker 1: and Zeller. I'm curious, are you know? Obviously it's a
Speaker 1: bummer that you're not going to be on the ground
Speaker 1: covering it for Fox this year, But what uh tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about Wingfoot as a US Open venue.
Speaker 2: Wing Put's a hard golf course, uh in the day,
Speaker 2: and it still is long, straight forward, traditional, no no secret,
Speaker 2: hard golf course, a lot of slope from back to
Speaker 2: front on a lot of greens, deep bunker deep deep bunkers,
Speaker 2: hard to get it up and down. Just you have
Speaker 2: to be it's you have to be accurate. You have
Speaker 2: to be accurate. Greens aren't that big. It's just it's
Speaker 2: just it's just one of the great golf courses you
Speaker 2: ever play. And I must say the greatest grill room
Speaker 2: bar room in America. But anyway, you know, it's just
Speaker 2: when I played wins finished third there in eighty four,
Speaker 2: that's some of the best golf I ever played my
Speaker 2: life because it was so long and if you drove
Speaker 2: in the rock, you didn't have a chance to get
Speaker 2: it near the green. And I really really played well.
Speaker 2: I went to the last not wholes thinking I could
Speaker 2: get part of a playoff if I shot a couple under,
Speaker 2: and I just didn't put very well. But anyway, you know,
Speaker 2: I just I wonder it's a hard golf course. When
Speaker 2: I see five six seven over par one in a
Speaker 2: US Open, I think, why, why is it so so hard?
Speaker 2: What have they done to it? In course, you can
Speaker 2: always make put whole locations where it's impossible to punt,
Speaker 2: and make me punts. But I always think par is
Speaker 2: a good score. That means if Parr is shot in
Speaker 2: the US Open, that means it's plenty hard. It would
Speaker 2: it would. It's going to be and will be a
Speaker 2: great test this year, a great, great test. They've actually
Speaker 2: put a new p in on the tenth hole, which
Speaker 2: is a great was one hundred and ninety yards before
Speaker 2: a great great par three and now it's like two thirty.
Speaker 2: So that'll be interesting to watch. But I am ims
Speaker 2: usually disappointed and not be able to go back to
Speaker 2: the US Open. The first time in many, many years
Speaker 2: I was. I was at a TV for three years
Speaker 2: from fifty to fifty three, and an ESPN called me
Speaker 2: and said, would you host the US Open with Mike
Speaker 2: Trico not call golf at hosts. I said, are you
Speaker 2: kidding me? Yes, to get back involved in golf TV.
Speaker 2: And that led to, you know, sixty five years old
Speaker 2: doing the US Open, and I thought we were going
Speaker 2: to do it for seven more years. And you know,
Speaker 2: the transition from Fox to NBC disappointed. We're all disappointed,
Speaker 2: but me especially because I will miss going to the
Speaker 2: US Open. It's a part of my life. It's a
Speaker 2: huge part of my family's life. And Bill colgolf in
Speaker 2: the US Open and be around the players, and be
Speaker 2: around the officials, and you know, just be in that atmosphere.
Speaker 2: There's nothing like it. And you know, some of my
Speaker 2: greatest moments were playing, Yes, but I must say being
Speaker 2: able to watch being the last round of brisk cupa
Speaker 2: two years ago to win back to back was was
Speaker 2: a great thrill for me to be there and see
Speaker 2: the next guy do it back to back and to
Speaker 2: watch some of the incredible shots that Gary Woodland hit
Speaker 2: last year, incredible shots the three would on the fourteenth
Speaker 2: hole of the pitch off the green at seventeen and
Speaker 2: I mean just incredible shots. Was really a thrill from me.
Speaker 1: The start of that round was just incredible, how how
Speaker 1: Woodland and Kopka were just going blow for blow those
Speaker 1: first six holes, birdie after birdie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and don't think that for all the
Speaker 2: listeners and out there that, don't think that I don't
Speaker 2: get fired up when I see that I'm in the
Speaker 2: last group waiting in the first fairly for Gary Woodland
Speaker 2: to tee off, and I'm here and on my headset
Speaker 2: that Kepka's just birdied what two of the first three
Speaker 2: or three of the first four, and so now he's
Speaker 2: tied or something, and now he's really challenging Gary Woodland,
Speaker 2: who's never done this before. And Gary Woodland, they're both
Speaker 2: great guys, are both you know, they're both you know, strong, fit,
Speaker 2: competitive individuals. And and don't think that I don't get
Speaker 2: fired up. And I'm one point and I want to
Speaker 2: do the best I can possibly do, and anything that
Speaker 2: comes out of my mouth, I wanted to be concise
Speaker 2: and right on and exactly what the player is thinking.
Speaker 2: That's all my position out there that day was to
Speaker 2: bring the viewer closer to what this guy is thinking
Speaker 2: and feeling and what's presented in front of him. And
Speaker 2: so I'm on point, and then the whole day was
Speaker 2: like that, and it was it was a thrill. I
Speaker 2: can't understate this, it was or overstate this. It was
Speaker 2: such a thrill for me to be out there be
Speaker 2: a part of something like that. And I'm gonna miss it.
Speaker 1: If you were talking to, say, a player and giving advice,
Speaker 1: what what's some stuff that you picked up? Obviously you
Speaker 1: were a great major championship player. What were what was
Speaker 1: some stuff that you picked up that you hadn't thought
Speaker 1: of while you were a player, when you were when
Speaker 1: you were doing you were announcing and part of the
Speaker 1: telecast watching golf. That would you think would have helped
Speaker 1: you as a player?
Speaker 2: You know what? It's it's it's I thought about that
Speaker 2: a lot. And there's one thing. But before I tell you,
Speaker 2: I want to say that I've heard a lot of
Speaker 2: announcers say that, you know, they they learned from announcing
Speaker 2: more about playing and improve their game from announcing and
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. That's a crock of shit. What
Speaker 2: you do. The only way you the only way you
Speaker 2: improve your games to go out there and practice and
Speaker 2: hit golf balls and play competitive golf. That's the only
Speaker 2: way you get better. But the one thing I did learn,
Speaker 2: the one thing I did learn that I didn't know
Speaker 2: when I was playing, is that you don't have to
Speaker 2: be perfect to win. And I always felt like I
Speaker 2: had to be perfect to win. And therefore I think
Speaker 2: I beat myself up a little bit too much. Maybe
Speaker 2: on the weekend or on Sunday when I didn't hit
Speaker 2: the perfect shot, I might have gotten down a little
Speaker 2: bit too much. And I never got really a defeatist attitude.
Speaker 2: But you know, things change, and when I have been
Speaker 2: in the booth for twenty three years now and around
Speaker 2: the game and TV that there's a lot of guys
Speaker 2: that mishit shots and miss putts, but they take advantage
Speaker 2: of the opportunity when it presents itself and they're not perfect.
Speaker 2: And I always felt like I had to be perfect
Speaker 2: to win, and I would have I would take a different,
Speaker 2: little different attitude to the backside on Sunday or maybe
Speaker 2: Sunday's round, if I had to do it all over again.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one other thing I would I learned
Speaker 2: over the years in a little bit different vein than
Speaker 2: your question, was that I hit a lot of golf
Speaker 2: balls and I enjoyed practicing, but I felt like I
Speaker 2: had to beat balls to keep up with the Joneses. Okay,
Speaker 2: if I had to do it all over again, I
Speaker 2: would hit half as many balls because you never nobody's
Speaker 2: ever won a tournament in history golf by striking the
Speaker 2: golf ball. You have to make putts and you have
Speaker 2: to chip well. So I would hit half as many
Speaker 2: balls because you're never going to get so good. That's
Speaker 2: a boring trait is to be able to hit the
Speaker 2: golf ball. You can improve a little bit from here
Speaker 2: to there, but where you can really improve is chipping
Speaker 2: and putting. Become the best chipper and putter you possibly can,
Speaker 2: and therefore that will take advantage of your ball striking.
Speaker 2: Win You win tournaments by short game. You don't win
Speaker 2: them by driving in the fairway and striking the golf ball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like what gets lost with statistics and
Speaker 1: everybody always, you know, talks about how important driving and
Speaker 1: approach play is, but you know, those things get you
Speaker 1: into contention, and it's it's very rare, and you look
Speaker 1: at players over the histories of their careers, it's very rare.
Speaker 1: You know, almost all the people that you would tab
Speaker 1: in underachiever in terms of their win totals. Are great
Speaker 1: ball strikers who struck around and on the greens, you know,
Speaker 1: and those that's where you win tournaments.
Speaker 2: Is like you said, Bryce and d Chambeau was number
Speaker 2: one in strokes game last week driving, Okay, that didn't
Speaker 2: win in the golf tournament. He was number one in
Speaker 2: putting that won in the golf tournament. Certainly, the driving helps,
Speaker 2: but the end game is getting into the hole. And
Speaker 2: whenever I ever won a golf tournament, and I didn't
Speaker 2: win many, because so I remember a lot of them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're selling yourself a little short there.
Speaker 2: Well, but when I when I won a tournament, yes
Speaker 2: I played well, but I putted really really well. Every
Speaker 2: single time I really putted well. And something else. I
Speaker 2: always made a key putt coming down the stretch. You
Speaker 2: always have to hit a shot or make a putt
Speaker 2: coming down the stretch to win. Nobody ever lets it
Speaker 2: be easy for you. So you have to perform. But anyway,
Speaker 2: you know, you got to make putt. Yeah, it's very simple.
Speaker 1: What's that most you know you talked about hitting a
Speaker 1: shot down the stretch. Which shot, in your mind is
Speaker 1: the most memorable one of all the shots.
Speaker 2: The which qualifies what we were just talking about. The
Speaker 2: most important shot that ever hit in my life was
Speaker 2: the bucker shot on the seventy second hole in the
Speaker 2: US Open in nineteen eighty eight to get in the
Speaker 2: playoff with Nick Faldough. If I don't hit that bunker
Speaker 2: shot and get it up and down, then I never
Speaker 2: have a chance to win. So that's the most important shot.
Speaker 2: The best shot might have been the one iron in
Speaker 2: the NC DOUBLEA in seventy four. It might have been
Speaker 2: the foreron on the last hole over water to get
Speaker 2: in the playoff with Greg Norman in the Houston Open.
Speaker 2: It might have been mean There's there's three or four
Speaker 2: that you think about, uh, and I qualify not only
Speaker 2: were the good shots, they were late Sunday afternoon and
Speaker 2: they met something when the pressure was on. So I
Speaker 2: think about those type of shots. It's and and it
Speaker 2: makes you feel good when you do it, especially because
Speaker 2: this is what you strive to do, to do it
Speaker 2: on the stage. And this doesn't starting professional golf. This
Speaker 2: starts back there. When you're nine and ten years old,
Speaker 2: you dream about the US Open, you dream about the Masters,
Speaker 2: and so you dream about being on the last hole
Speaker 2: against Hogan, Snead, you know, Palmer, Nicholas, whoever your heroes
Speaker 2: might be, and you compete against them in your own imagination.
Speaker 2: You're hitting three or four balls out there, and so
Speaker 2: when you finally get there. I've always felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: you you better have the guts to fail, because you're
Speaker 2: going to fail a whole lot more than you than
Speaker 2: you're than you succeed. But you got to when you fail,
Speaker 2: you got to get back up up. You can't go
Speaker 2: back in your hole and bury your head for the
Speaker 2: next three weeks. You know, you've got to be able
Speaker 2: to get back up there and do it again. And
Speaker 2: some can do it and some can't. And I enjoyed
Speaker 2: the competition. I love being in the last group or
Speaker 2: the late Sunday afternoon because that's when you find out
Speaker 2: did all this work pay off? Have us succeeded in
Speaker 2: this game? Can I do this on this grandest stage?
Speaker 2: And if I can hit those shots, you know, on
Speaker 2: the last shust under the US Open or wherever it
Speaker 2: might be, then you know what I've done my work.
Speaker 2: This is all I can do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I mean golf. You hit on so many
Speaker 1: things there, but I think one of the I played.
Speaker 1: I qualified for a mid Am, a US Midam a
Speaker 1: few years ago, and one of my buddies who I
Speaker 1: played tournament golf with, we were talking after and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, you really got to you got to savor
Speaker 1: this moment because this is the one percent. You know,
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of the time golf just kicks you
Speaker 1: in the nuts and says it says, you know, go
Speaker 1: go try harder, play better next time. But that one
Speaker 1: percent when you when you pull off the shot or
Speaker 1: when you when you get it done down the stretch,
Speaker 1: is like the best feeling in the world.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely absolutely to hit that to hit that five
Speaker 2: or six iron or whatever club it is right flush,
Speaker 2: you finish in balance, the ball's going where you're looking.
Speaker 2: It means a lot, you know, It's just there's nothing
Speaker 2: like it, and you don't have to hit many of
Speaker 2: them to keep it coming back. But let's not forget
Speaker 2: this isn't about professional golf. This is about you qualifying
Speaker 2: for the Midam or or my son qualifile for the
Speaker 2: mid Aim some three years ago. And it could be
Speaker 2: the USM, it could be a college tournament, it could
Speaker 2: be you could be a you know, an older guy
Speaker 2: playing amateur golf, senior amate golf, and you're you know,
Speaker 2: maybe a senior amateur in the senior Open championship. Yeah,
Speaker 2: club championship. Absolutely. And so it's it's all these stages
Speaker 2: of golf that that keeps bringing you back when you
Speaker 2: hit the good shot or you perform when it matters
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: So I got I got a couple of quick questions
Speaker 1: on the on the way out. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for the time. But what's the what's the scariest what's
Speaker 1: the scariest screen? At wing Foot?
Speaker 2: Uh, let me think here for a minute. Nine is
Speaker 2: has got a lot of undulation to it, meaning not
Speaker 2: so much back to front, but a lot of movement.
Speaker 2: One has a lot of slope from back to front.
Speaker 2: Three has a tremendous amount of slope from back to front.
Speaker 2: You know, keep them below the hole is gonna be
Speaker 2: key there. Putting it in the fair and keep it
Speaker 2: below the hole. It's pretty simple wing Foot. And again
Speaker 2: at Wingfoot be an old traditional golf course, everything's right
Speaker 2: in front of you. There's there's no hidden gems out there.
Speaker 2: It's right in front of you. It's just it's just
Speaker 2: a tough test.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting to see how if
Speaker 1: the powers nullified a little bit by the rough and
Speaker 1: the greens there, because those greens, if you're in the rough,
Speaker 1: can be so tough to get to really control the
Speaker 1: golf ball.
Speaker 2: Oh that's and that's the key of the rough, Uh
Speaker 2: is that? Yeah, you can get it as strong as
Speaker 2: these players are now, they can get it to the green,
Speaker 2: but you can't control where it's going to stop so much.
Speaker 2: And so therefore, with being a really tough course to
Speaker 2: get it up and end, now you'll be left with
Speaker 2: some very very difficult up and ends. And that's that's
Speaker 2: the equalizer at wing foot.
Speaker 1: And then I stumbled across the story about an old
Speaker 1: bullseye putter that you had that you so you kind
Speaker 1: of trashed after a buddy of yours.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, this is college golf at its finest.
Speaker 2: So I got this old bullseye. My my favorite putter
Speaker 2: still of all time is the bullseye Plans putter. Okay,
Speaker 2: you talk about butter feeling soft, feeling U. And so
Speaker 2: we played a college tournament. I didn't cut well. I
Speaker 2: was rent and raving on the six hour drive home
Speaker 2: or whatever. In Jayhawk, who was always on my ass,
Speaker 2: you know, NonStop, and he's telling me, you know, that
Speaker 2: putter is not very good for you. You don't your style,
Speaker 2: your way, that's not very good for you. You should
Speaker 2: change Pudder's blah blah blah. And finally I had enough
Speaker 2: and I opened the window of the car running eighty
Speaker 2: miles an hour down the interstate and dragged this son
Speaker 2: of a bitch on the asphalt for about three miles
Speaker 2: and destroyed this this, this, this wonderful putter. But I
Speaker 2: just destroyed it and then let it go and threw
Speaker 2: it away. Then all of a sudden I look back
Speaker 2: at Jay and he's laughing his ass off, thinking I
Speaker 2: was just kidding you. So that was that was one
Speaker 2: of the stories of some of the stuff that happens
Speaker 2: in college golf, which is some of the greatest three
Speaker 2: years of my life.
Speaker 1: I wonder how many how many majors you would have
Speaker 1: gotten with if that, with that old putter.
Speaker 2: You know, I got a couple I still have in
Speaker 2: my house that were exact copies of that. Of course,
Speaker 2: they all they all were a little bit different because
Speaker 2: they're all so hand ground. Back in the day. But
Speaker 2: those putters, I putted with him my whole life until
Speaker 2: I finally went to the Zing two back in about
Speaker 2: middle to late eighties, middle eighties. But you know, when
Speaker 2: you when you look at these modern day putters, they're
Speaker 2: big and their spaith balance and they're solid, but they
Speaker 2: had big sweet spots. You talk about the old cash inns,
Speaker 2: the old bull's eyes, the old this or that. You
Speaker 2: talk about small sweet spots, but when you put it well,
Speaker 2: there was no feeling like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's Everybody talks about the driver and
Speaker 1: how forgiving it is, and the ball, and I think
Speaker 1: one of the other big things is the putter. Just
Speaker 1: hitting even in nineteen ninety five, putter versus today is
Speaker 1: so much harder to putt well with it because if
Speaker 1: you miss it just a little, you're going to end
Speaker 1: up ten feet short.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, But I think the putters in the clubs
Speaker 2: being bigger, bigger sweet spots have even professionals, we've gotten
Speaker 2: a little careless in our striking, in our putting. If
Speaker 2: you went back to the old equipment, you would adjust quickly,
Speaker 2: but you would adjust by being more exact, because you
Speaker 2: know you have to be exactly I went back to
Speaker 2: Blade Irons three or four years ago, titles Blade Irons
Speaker 2: for that simple reason, I said, I came out of
Speaker 2: the room playing blades. I'm going back the gray playing blades.
Speaker 2: And because you have to be more exact, and and
Speaker 2: I think it makes you play better and and and
Speaker 2: and and just I don't know. I like the look
Speaker 2: in the field. And maybe I'm a little stubborn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a I have an old person and
Speaker 1: driver that sometimes when I'm struggling with the driver, I'll
Speaker 1: bring that out and I have to focus so much
Speaker 1: on just hitting it solid that it just gets everything
Speaker 1: kind of back into place exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's all. I mean, everything back in the place.
Speaker 2: You concentrate on what you're doing, and and and and
Speaker 2: you hit it really well, you really do. H Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Curtis, thanks so much for for the time.
Speaker 1: We'll have to have you on again maybe around uh
Speaker 1: maybe around a major and UH really going to miss
Speaker 1: you not being on TV with Fox this year, and
Speaker 1: uh and thanks again, well.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, Thanks for those comments, and always enjoy
Speaker 2: talking about the game of golf. It's it's been a
Speaker 2: great it's been a great uh life for me and
Speaker 2: a career, and I still think about it every day.
Speaker 2: Even though I don't play much, I still think about
Speaker 2: it every day. So thanks for having me on