Speaker 1: Call Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Book Club Club book Club. I wonder if that'll ever
Speaker 2: get old or the listener the fact that you can't
Speaker 2: coordinate I chant over zoom. Yeah, but you can introduce
Speaker 2: Coolson Media book Club, which comes out every Sunday and
Speaker 2: is a piece of fiction read by me Margaret Kilchroy.
Speaker 2: And today my guest is the only award winning guest
Speaker 2: we've ever had, Sophie Lichterman. Hi, maybe other people have
Speaker 2: won awards. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: They only give them to me legally.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, all awards in the world go to Sophie.
Speaker 2: That seems fair. Sophie does all of the work in
Speaker 2: the world, including running all of the great cool Zone
Speaker 2: Media podcasts that you listen to, whether on micro behind
Speaker 2: the scenes. But I was like, I want Sophie to
Speaker 2: be the guest of this story.
Speaker 1: Well, I've been requesting this specific kind of story since
Speaker 1: we first started talking about doing this book club series.
Speaker 2: I know, and I'm going to still find you another
Speaker 2: Sophie has asked for a love story. Yeah, and this
Speaker 2: is not a This is not a happy ending love story,
Speaker 2: but it is a story about the complications of love
Speaker 2: and it is a one of the best uses of
Speaker 2: genre fiction to describe relationship dynamics that I've ever read,
Speaker 2: and so I was excited to have you on for
Speaker 2: it because this week's story is by an author named
Speaker 2: Catherine Sparrow.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Catherine Sparrow.
Speaker 2: Cool, Oh, awesome, cool, Oh, I'm so excited. Catherine Sparrow
Speaker 2: is a writer who is deeply interested in creating stories
Speaker 2: about transformation, struggle, and solidarity. You can check out her
Speaker 2: debut fantasy book, Little Apocalypse, which is about deadly monsters
Speaker 2: and a kid who loves them. And this particular story
Speaker 2: was originally published in Fantasy Magazine under the title Chemical Magic,
Speaker 2: but it comes to us under the title Transmutation.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. This is going to be so nice
Speaker 1: and just some context for the listeners. I have had
Speaker 1: back to back to back to back to back stuff
Speaker 1: this entire day, and I was like, Magpie, can I
Speaker 1: get ten minutes to eat? And her suggestion was, why
Speaker 1: don't you mute yourself while I read you this story?
Speaker 1: And I was like, lunch hower story time, I highly
Speaker 1: recommend soothing eating while listening to Magpie. Tell me a
Speaker 1: love story that of sorts doesn't actually end with Hollywood
Speaker 1: ending with a Hollywood ending that doesn't actually end with
Speaker 1: a Hollywood ending.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to at some point, I'm going
Speaker 2: to get you another love story to read, because there
Speaker 2: are really good stories that do end with a little
Speaker 2: bit more happiness. But I just I really like this story.
Speaker 2: Transmutation by Catherine sparrom One. The magician pulled a rabbit,
Speaker 2: a sock, monkey, a rainbow, and a flowering plum tree
Speaker 2: out of his hat. He reached in deeper for everything
Speaker 2: that was missing. He searched for something, anything, that would
Speaker 2: make it right and bring her back from the far
Speaker 2: off land seventeen subway stops away. His gap toothed audience,
Speaker 2: smiling and applauding, yelled for him to do more. While
Speaker 2: the birthday boy sucked on a large purple lollipop. The
Speaker 2: magician began pulling kerchiefs from his sleeve, a huge pile
Speaker 2: of bright colored silks, never ending as they fell onto
Speaker 2: the floor around his shiny leather boots. He stared down
Speaker 2: at them and knew, no matter how long he kept pulling,
Speaker 2: that there could never be enough to cover his grief.
Speaker 2: When his performance was done, the children clapped, the parents smiled,
Speaker 2: He bowed, and scurried home to his lonely apartment, empty
Speaker 2: except for the box that was his best trick, if
Speaker 2: only a girl allowed him to do it. The Alchemist
Speaker 2: scratched her nose with a gnawed fingernail and watched the
Speaker 2: flow of information that turned pithy phrases into charitable donations.
Speaker 2: She clicked over to the Alchemist's for Peace project's financial
Speaker 2: page and made a complicated exchange that turned euros into
Speaker 2: gold sterling. She felt a small contentment and held on
Speaker 2: to that feeling until it faded away. Maybe I'll go
Speaker 2: see a movie, she said out loud, as though she
Speaker 2: had roommates. She scratched her belly along the red lined
Speaker 2: scar and missed him for a moment. There were still
Speaker 2: good memories.
Speaker 3: That made her ache.
Speaker 2: She looked out the window and saw one of the
Speaker 2: Magician's doves pecking at his foot, where a message had
Speaker 2: been tied to his leg. The Alchemist opened the window,
Speaker 2: took the trembling bird into her hands, and untied the message.
Speaker 2: She turned the paper into fire. Two two months earlier,
Speaker 2: the magician stood on the dance floor wondering how to
Speaker 2: magic his feet into graceful motion rather than the choppy
Speaker 2: glitched movement of a thirteen year old boy. He hated
Speaker 2: his dancing, but hated more those men who stood in
Speaker 2: the club's shadows and watched without ever moving their bodies.
Speaker 2: So he bounced and swayed while his elbows jerked backwards
Speaker 2: in a hopeless gesture. He hit something soft that squished
Speaker 2: and said out. He spun around to see a woman
Speaker 2: holding her breast and glaring at him. She had the
Speaker 2: kind of breasts he loved, round and droopy. Sorry, he
Speaker 2: mouthed over the bass boom. She rolled her eyes. He
Speaker 2: tried to elbow himself in the chest. It only seemed fair,
Speaker 2: but the laws of physics only allowed him a blow
Speaker 2: to the belly. At least it made her smile a little.
Speaker 2: Her hard edged face turned lovely for a moment. She
Speaker 2: flinched a little when he reached forward and pulled a
Speaker 2: lollipop from behind her ear. She shook her head and
Speaker 2: patted her lips with two fingers, so he reached behind
Speaker 2: her other ear and pulled out a cigarette. He followed
Speaker 2: her outside, out past the butchy ladies, comparing pecks to
Speaker 2: the alley full of rain and soggy cardboard. I'm the
Speaker 2: magician he said, alchemist, she replied. She took a mode
Speaker 2: of dust from her pocket and placed it on the
Speaker 2: edge of her cigarette. She turned the dust into flame.
Speaker 2: Those things will kill you, he said, Cancer turned cells
Speaker 2: into monsters, she said, with professional admiration. The alchemist offered
Speaker 2: him a drag, and he took it, shivering a little
Speaker 2: when he placed the wet tip on his lips. So, magician,
Speaker 2: what kind of magic are you into? He shrugged? Anything? Really,
Speaker 2: magic is all one thing underneath. I keep most of
Speaker 2: my tricks small so I don't scare people, so they
Speaker 2: don't ask too many questions. You know I do, she smiled.
Speaker 2: At least people understand what a magician is. Everyone thinks
Speaker 2: an alchemist makes perfume. One time I turned per fumano urine,
Speaker 2: but that's not really my thing. Why'd you do it? Oh,
Speaker 2: A lover cheated on me. The magician nodded. He thought
Speaker 2: about the women he'd been with, how they'd all turned
Speaker 2: from something magical into something awful. Maybe an alchemist could
Speaker 2: keep that from happening. I bet your current lover doesn't cheat,
Speaker 2: he said, trying not to sound too obvious. She raised
Speaker 2: one eyebrow. I hope he won't. She stared until the
Speaker 2: magician felt himself turning into something hot and bothered. She
Speaker 2: walked away, and he followed, listening as she turned words
Speaker 2: into a smoldering flirtation. He pulled flower after flower from
Speaker 2: his breast pocket until he found her favorite, a collar lily,
Speaker 2: and tucked it behind her ear. She turned his apartment
Speaker 2: key into an invitation. He led her through his doorway
Speaker 2: and into the world of his magical carpet, his magical bed,
Speaker 2: and his magical bathtub, all of which are's for sale
Speaker 2: from our sponsors. Get your own magical carpet, bed, and
Speaker 2: bathtub from Magical Bed, bathtub, carpet, and beyond.
Speaker 1: I was hoping you were going to do the beyond part.
Speaker 3: It was like it was right there.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's pretty much necessary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're back.
Speaker 2: Three. Some days they made elaborate plans and then never
Speaker 2: ended up leaving the bed. Other days they would go
Speaker 2: to the movies like teenagers in search of a dark space.
Speaker 2: They would come out dazed, not having any idea what
Speaker 2: it was about. I want to know everything about you,
Speaker 2: the magician said. The alchemist reminded herself to stay safe.
Speaker 2: She pulled herself out of his arms. Insighed, you know
Speaker 2: what happens when you get too close to an alchemist.
Speaker 2: I'd like to find out, the magician teased, he understood nothing.
Speaker 2: He grinned, took a pair of lovebirds out of his
Speaker 2: vest pocket and let them fly into the air. They
Speaker 2: swooped and swirled around each other, fainting and surging in
Speaker 2: a secret bird dance, before settling down on the magician's shoulder.
Speaker 2: One thing becomes another, she lectured him, objects lose integrity.
Speaker 2: Transmutation is a true danger of my profession. She talked
Speaker 2: on about how it worked, but wasn't sure why she bothered.
Speaker 2: He played with his birds and didn't listen. He didn't understand.
Speaker 2: Maybe he didn't want to. The alchemist took one of
Speaker 2: the birds into her hands and licked her fingers. When
Speaker 2: she stroked its green feathered head, its feathers grew black
Speaker 2: and crow like. She whispered in its ear to be
Speaker 2: free and let the bird fly. Four. I want to
Speaker 2: see what you can really do, he said to her.
Speaker 2: One day at the park, all the squirrels watched her,
Speaker 2: and all the boats in the sailboat pond blew towards her.
Speaker 2: The magician couldn't tear his attention away from her, and
Speaker 2: his magic leaked out all over the park. It filled
Speaker 2: him up and spilled all over. He'd never been happier.
Speaker 2: What I can really do, she smiled, with equal parts
Speaker 2: condescension and affection. She liked him, he knew that, but
Speaker 2: not as much as he liked her. She kept her distance.
Speaker 2: He hated that most things can become most other things,
Speaker 2: She said. The key is to figuring out how it changes,
Speaker 2: like water into wine. You wonder how Jesus did it, Sure,
Speaker 2: the magician said. He glanced around, hoping no one religious
Speaker 2: stood nearby. The only people nearby were little kids trying
Speaker 2: to push their boats away from her and back out
Speaker 2: to the middle of the pool. So there are both liquids.
Speaker 2: That helps, but it doesn't go very far. Water quenches
Speaker 2: one kind of thirst, and wine another physiological and psychological,
Speaker 2: so that moves them closer together. Then consider how water
Speaker 2: to the thirsty is a relief, and how alkyl to
Speaker 2: the wary is a relief. She gazed out across the
Speaker 2: oval pond. When I hold all of that in my mind,
Speaker 2: then it is only a small step into knowing what
Speaker 2: chemical compounds are needed. To bridge the difference between them.
Speaker 2: She opened her clunky purse and took out what looked
Speaker 2: like a moldy bread crumb. She flicked it into the water,
Speaker 2: and it sank down between the bobbing miniature sailboats. The
Speaker 2: magician blinked, and in the time it took for his
Speaker 2: eyes to flutter back open, the water became a dark
Speaker 2: red stain stretching the length of the pool. The alchemist
Speaker 2: cupped her hand and dipped it into the liquid. She
Speaker 2: sipped it delicately, A fine sancho vesse, you are amazing.
Speaker 2: I love you. The words slipped out, and he wondered
Speaker 2: if she had given him something to turn his infatuation
Speaker 2: into something deeper. Her wary smile told him she had not.
Speaker 2: The magician lowered his mouth to the red liquid of
Speaker 2: the pond and drank as much as he could without choking.
Speaker 2: Your face is a mess, she said. When he sat
Speaker 2: back up again, A cold breeze blew across the pond,
Speaker 2: capsizing some of the sailboats. They left as kids started
Speaker 2: crying and parents began swearing and making phone calls to
Speaker 2: the city water department.
Speaker 3: Five.
Speaker 2: They spent Monday through Friday playing phone tag, always missing
Speaker 2: each other. The alchemist was busy with guild meetings, dinner
Speaker 2: with friends, and deadlines. She watched the magician's anger when
Speaker 2: he couldn't spend time with her. She worried over his brooding.
Speaker 2: She tried to educate him about balance and object integrity.
Speaker 2: The magician left flowers that bloomed into other flowers on
Speaker 2: her doorstep. He made her a box of endless chocolates.
Speaker 2: The treffles made me a little sick, she admitted later.
Speaker 2: I turned them into toffees less intense, I guess with
Speaker 2: little gestures and words. She tried to keep both of
Speaker 2: them safe, even though he was such a pretty magician. Six,
Speaker 2: show me a trick, the alchemist said to the magician.
Speaker 2: They sat at a booth in a restaurant where the
Speaker 2: food was much too greasy. But she had sprinkled her
Speaker 2: own salt on top of the fried blintzes to turn
Speaker 2: them nourishing and healthy without losing any taste. She turned
Speaker 2: their sprites into gin and tonics, and both of them
Speaker 2: were tipsy. The magician put on a smile and held
Speaker 2: up his fork. It drooped in the middle. She laughed
Speaker 2: and brushed her fingers across his forearm. He felt a
Speaker 2: chasm between them, even though she sat two feet away.
Speaker 2: More please, she sucked on her straw. He liked the
Speaker 2: way alcohol softened her. Magic is fussy, it comes and goes,
Speaker 2: he said. It's an art, not a science. He said
Speaker 2: the words that all magicians are taught to say in
Speaker 2: order to hide their inadequacy. And if you want to
Speaker 2: hide your inadequacy, you can buy a brand new car
Speaker 2: from cars Are Bus. I hope that's not a real.
Speaker 1: Thing, but I feel like there are brands that are
Speaker 1: very similar to that.
Speaker 2: I was gonna be like cart Calm, but that's probably real.
Speaker 1: There's ones that are like, get your car from a
Speaker 1: vending machine type shit, and I'm like, sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why not. You can get anything from any of
Speaker 2: our sponsors. You call them. They will sell you anything
Speaker 2: that you ask for, as long as it's legal to sell.
Speaker 2: And not a crime for me to say that you
Speaker 2: should call them to ask for But here are those ads,
Speaker 2: and we're back. She nodded and yawned into the palm
Speaker 2: of her hand. He was losing her. The magician ran
Speaker 2: his hand through her hair as much remind himself that
Speaker 2: he could. As for the feel of her tangled curls
Speaker 2: that came undone beneath his touch. Magic can be dangerous,
Speaker 2: he said. He sipped the perfectly balanced gin and tonic
Speaker 2: for small things. It will act predictably, but it's like electricity,
Speaker 2: always taking the most direct path home, and the bigger
Speaker 2: the magic. The mor can spark and spike. His hands
Speaker 2: shook and he looked away, explaining any of it made
Speaker 2: him feel naked in a new way. But you're a
Speaker 2: really good magician, right, the alchemist asked.
Speaker 3: He nodded.
Speaker 2: He wanted it to be true, and besides, she looked
Speaker 2: so interested. There is one trick, my best trick, he said.
Speaker 2: Maybe she would finally be the girl who liked it.
Speaker 2: Drink all of that, he ordered her, and then took
Speaker 2: a big gulp of his own drink. Let's go to
Speaker 2: my place. The magician pulled five dollar bills out of
Speaker 2: his nose until he had enough to cover the bill.
Speaker 2: He clutched her hand as they walked through the dusky
Speaker 2: city and up the stairs to his apartment. A month ago.
Speaker 2: She turned and his dryer lint into lavender seeds, and
Speaker 2: the whole place smelt hopeful. The magician took off his
Speaker 2: vest and hat, and gestured for the alchemist to sit
Speaker 2: at his kitchen table for tonight and one night only.
Speaker 2: He began come see the magician's most daring and death,
Speaker 2: the fine trick. He paused and studied the curl of
Speaker 2: her smile. Her fingers twitched and a pack of cards
Speaker 2: appeared in one hand. She raised an unimpressed eyebrow. Good
Speaker 2: start with low stakes, as though nothing interesting would happen.
Speaker 2: He threw the cards up into the air and they
Speaker 2: burst into tiny fireworks before disappearing. He coughed and then
Speaker 2: pulled a three foot long rapier out of his mouth.
Speaker 2: The razor sharp edge cut the top of his palate
Speaker 2: and his mouth filled with blood. The alchemist applauded it
Speaker 2: was time. We are ready for this, He decided. For
Speaker 2: my next trick, I will need an assistant. Is there
Speaker 2: anyone in the audience, any brave girl willing to help?
Speaker 2: The alchemist raised her hand, and the magician spent a
Speaker 2: long moment scanning his lazy boy his fish tank in
Speaker 2: the stereo before finally noticing her. Ah, yes, you fine lady.
Speaker 2: What is your name? The alchemist? She said primly, Ah,
Speaker 2: a perfumest in the house. How lovely. She stuck her
Speaker 2: tongue out and took his outstretched hand. You sure about this,
Speaker 2: he whispered, You trust me. You wanted that more than anything.
Speaker 2: She hesitated, and then nodded. He led her into the
Speaker 2: bedroom and over to the box that sat near his window.
Speaker 2: It stood on sixteen legs, and every inch of it
Speaker 2: was carved and painted with a faded carnival cobalt and umber.
Speaker 2: The magician opened the lid and gestured for the alchemist
Speaker 2: to lay down within it. The length of her body
Speaker 2: went inside the box, while her head and feet stuck
Speaker 2: out the ends. One thing, she said, looking a bit frozen.
Speaker 2: If I say stop, you have to Her boundary hit
Speaker 2: the magician like a slap. He smiled, shut the lid
Speaker 2: to the box, and slid four different bolts shut. The
Speaker 2: magician opened a slim drawer in the side of the
Speaker 2: box and took out two panes of glass, knife sharpened
Speaker 2: along one edge. His hands trembled as he showed them
Speaker 2: to her. Peering through them and smiling, The colors of
Speaker 2: her face bleached out to white. Magic and need bubbled
Speaker 2: through him, seeking release. He took the sheets and held
Speaker 2: them above the perfectly fitted slots of the box that
Speaker 2: lay just above her belly. She cleared her throat, about
Speaker 2: to say something, maybe about leaving him. We both need this,
Speaker 2: he thought. It will bring us closer. He plunged the
Speaker 2: panes of glass into her through her magic flushed through him,
Speaker 2: hard and down. It caught on her spinal cord before
Speaker 2: slicing through. She screamed, quiet, it doesn't hurt. He said,
Speaker 2: that was part of the trick. The magician didn't look
Speaker 2: at her face, but knelt down and rolled away the
Speaker 2: two separate pieces of the box. Through the glass, he
Speaker 2: could see her internal landscape. She can't hide from me anymore,
Speaker 2: he thought. Her scream turned into a short, panting breath.
Speaker 2: Look away, she whispered. Please. He had already split her
Speaker 2: in two, so how could he resist. He turned torso
Speaker 2: side and watched a lovely redcarp flit about, moving in
Speaker 2: and out of her undulating organs. Its mouth gaped in
Speaker 2: open o shape around her stomach. He saw Grandma curled
Speaker 2: up and sleeping with her grandchild. The magician smiled and
Speaker 2: peered closer. Something tar like oozed around her liver, taking
Speaker 2: on shadowy menacing forms. Please stop, put me back together, Please,
Speaker 2: she begged. It doesn't hurt, the magician repeated. Everyone is
Speaker 2: so sure it will hurt, but it doesn't. I'm a
Speaker 2: good magician, so it doesn't. The magician turned to look
Speaker 2: into her lower half. At the center lay a coiled
Speaker 2: pit viper, who pulled back its head and struck at
Speaker 2: the glass. He studied the marrow of her slit bones
Speaker 2: and watched rainbow swirling through her left side. A whispering
Speaker 2: came from her right. He leaned close, but he couldn't
Speaker 2: make out any of the words. You're way more amazing
Speaker 2: than any other woman I've looked into, not that there's
Speaker 2: been many, he added, hurriedly, not wanting her to think
Speaker 2: this meant nothing to him. When he was done, he
Speaker 2: pushed the two sides of the box back together and
Speaker 2: looked at her face. Her eyes looked cartoonish and huge.
Speaker 2: It doesn't hurt, he whispered. It may be shocking, but
Speaker 2: there's no pain.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: He took out four more panes of glass to separate
Speaker 2: her legs from each other, and to sever a section
Speaker 2: of her torso off. There was still so much more
Speaker 2: to see. He saw everything, and she made sense to him.
Speaker 2: Now He saw that she loved him in the curl
Speaker 2: of bright green leaves growing through her steadfast heart. Feeling
Speaker 2: sated and a little faint, he pushed the box back
Speaker 2: together and pulled out the panes of glass streaked with
Speaker 2: red and a faint sheen of viscerah. He held his
Speaker 2: hand over the box, let magic flow out and through him,
Speaker 2: putting her back together until he became empty. He unlocked
Speaker 2: the box and pulled her limp form out, pulling her
Speaker 2: into his arms. She wouldn't look at him and kept
Speaker 2: her face turned away like a stubborn child. He went
Speaker 2: to go get two glasses of water from the kitchen.
Speaker 2: She had lost fluids and was probably thirsty. He couldn't
Speaker 2: wait to tell her what he'd seen, what he knew now.
Speaker 2: When he came back, she was gone. She turned the
Speaker 2: front door into a massive wasp nest and written a
Speaker 2: note she left on the box. I warned you. He
Speaker 2: started crying. He thought she'd be the one who would
Speaker 2: be a good box girl. He had hoped an alchemist
Speaker 2: would understand him, and she loved him. He knew that
Speaker 2: he'd seen it. Maybe she needed a little time. He
Speaker 2: turned back to the box and ran a finger along
Speaker 2: one of the glass panes. He touched his reddened finger
Speaker 2: to his tongue, tasting her It held nuances of smoke, rain,
Speaker 2: and fresh bread. He took each of the glass panes
Speaker 2: and licked them clean. The magician slept an uneasy sleep
Speaker 2: and woke with the feeling that his half remembered dreams
Speaker 2: had all been violent. He got up to make his
Speaker 2: coffee and felt a weight and shift of gravity within
Speaker 2: his body. Something fluttered in his belly, and he ran
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. Just getting to the toilet, as he
Speaker 2: started throwing up, red carp slipped out of his throat
Speaker 2: and into the toilet bowl. They swam in circles in
Speaker 2: the water. He ran a hand through his hair and
Speaker 2: it felt thick and curly like the alchemist's. When he peed,
Speaker 2: he felt the sting of snake venom, burning as urethra
Speaker 2: from the inside. He called the Alchemist and left her
Speaker 2: a long message, saying that he missed her and loved her,
Speaker 2: and that yesterday had been the best moment of his life.
Speaker 2: His voice squawked and brayed like a teenager's. Not knowing
Speaker 2: what to do, he made eggs and toast, but they
Speaker 2: tasted wrong in his mouth. He drank black coffee instead,
Speaker 2: just like she liked it. Wasps swarmed around his food,
Speaker 2: stealing tiny chunks with their front legs and buzzing around him.
Speaker 2: He left her another message, saying some weird things were happening,
Speaker 2: what should he do to change back? Then he left
Speaker 2: another telling her how beautiful she was inside and out,
Speaker 2: but mostly inside. Two days later, he started to shake.
Speaker 2: At first, it was a physical sensation, but it invaded everything,
Speaker 2: and he panicked, unable to calm down, to sit still,
Speaker 2: to do anything but freak out. Someone had cut him
Speaker 2: up into pieces. He loved, had done that and liked it,
Speaker 2: and he couldn't catch his breath. And also that someone
Speaker 2: was him, and he had loved it, and he had
Speaker 2: cried and cried loud and ugly. He went to his
Speaker 2: box and came close to destroying him, but parts of
Speaker 2: him were still him, so he did not. The panic
Speaker 2: turned a grayness to a nothingness, like he sat in
Speaker 2: a shroud of clouds and could touch nothing, feel nothing.
Speaker 2: He needed her, he thought, numbly. She had done this
Speaker 2: to him, she had destroyed him. He didn't want to
Speaker 2: know what it felt like to have a magician cut
Speaker 2: you in half and love it, even as you begged
Speaker 2: him to stop. But she had invaded him with herself.
Speaker 2: He sickened himself, and he was himself. He wrote on
Speaker 2: a piece of paper, I get it. I know what
Speaker 2: I did, and tied it to his pigeon's foot, sending
Speaker 2: it out to find her. When the pigeon came back,
Speaker 2: he wrote another note. You warned me. I get it now,
Speaker 2: and you should have told me how dangerous you are.
Speaker 2: Even as he wrote the words, he knew that she
Speaker 2: had told him and he hadn't listened. He called more
Speaker 2: magic into him than ever before and tried to make
Speaker 2: a spell that would turn back time. He tried to
Speaker 2: change fact into fiction, to erase his own memory, to
Speaker 2: become wise and not care about any of this. He
Speaker 2: failed over and over again. He had never been a
Speaker 2: very good magician. The end, yay, I.
Speaker 1: Took a lot of notes.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: That was really good.
Speaker 2: It gets kind of intense. I have to admit I
Speaker 2: liked it.
Speaker 1: It was like I was like slowburn, slowburn, sloburn fire. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My favorite line I wrote it down was I keep
Speaker 1: all of my tricks small so I don't scare people.
Speaker 1: That is an incredible line. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, Another part
Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting was the flower choice because
Speaker 1: the evolution of the cowl and like the meaning behind it,
Speaker 1: Like originally I think it was back in Egypt, it meant,
Speaker 1: you know, the meaning behind it, the symbolism behind it
Speaker 1: was more of like sexuality, and it's matured throughout the
Speaker 1: years to mean more of like And I'm thinking, just
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, is more of you know, union and purity
Speaker 1: and marriage and things like that. So it's interesting, it's interesting. Interesting,
Speaker 1: that choice of flowers interesting to me. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's what the author had in mind, but
Speaker 1: that's what came to my weird plant loving brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a
Speaker 2: conscious choice. But I love all of the symbols throughout it,
Speaker 2: all the car the lavender seeds, the like. This is
Speaker 2: such a beautiful story and yet I mean it's so brutal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it, like I understand why fiction has to engage
Speaker 2: with like really hard and complex and dark subjects, right,
Speaker 2: in order to say a lot of true and meaningful things,
Speaker 2: you have to sometimes go a little dark. And I
Speaker 2: feel like the average author doesn't really earn that, you know,
Speaker 2: like the average author is just like and now for
Speaker 2: some shock value, and then like, this story is about
Speaker 2: a consent violation and it is framed non sexually on purpose,
Speaker 2: and it is like really clear. Like it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's talk about what the story is. But to me,
Speaker 2: it's just it's so clear. It's like the story says
Speaker 2: it better than what I could think of to say
Speaker 2: about it. In most ways.
Speaker 1: It started off where I was like, this is giving
Speaker 1: very much five hundred days of Summer vibes, where it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen.
Speaker 2: That movie, I don't think so. Is that is that one?
Speaker 2: Is like a manic Pixie dream girl.
Speaker 1: It's it's a story where you're seeing two versions of
Speaker 1: a love story that isn't actually a love story.
Speaker 3: Oh and uh.
Speaker 1: The male protagonist is protagonist in quotes, is definitely more
Speaker 1: into her than she's into him. But he has this
Speaker 1: version of what's happening within their relationship that is his
Speaker 1: made up version, and it's actually not the love story
Speaker 1: that the audience thinks is unfolding, and you get the
Speaker 1: real versions of what's actually happening. And it's very much
Speaker 1: that he's so much into more into her, which I
Speaker 1: think is something that happens in this episode. And there's
Speaker 1: you know, different boundaries that are that are not respected,
Speaker 1: and it starts off I feel like the story starts
Speaker 1: off with a lot of that, the same metaphors, and
Speaker 1: then it gets lit on fire, which is and like
Speaker 1: they could have done that in five and Day Summer
Speaker 1: and it would have been really cool. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: think there's just so many ways that this magician. First
Speaker 1: of all, don't match with a witchy woman, don't don't
Speaker 1: mess with a witchy woman. She has magical powers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, goodness in your apartment, it's not going to be good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think this is just a really interesting story
Speaker 1: about why boundaries are so important and why you should
Speaker 1: listen to people when they say things too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And one of the things I like about it is
Speaker 2: that it's like she likes him. Most of the stories,
Speaker 2: most of the like stories about even like male violence
Speaker 2: for example, are always framed in this sort of black
Speaker 2: and white like, oh, well, just this man is a
Speaker 2: monster and everyone knows he's a monster, or even he's
Speaker 2: a secret monster.
Speaker 1: But not.
Speaker 2: But like in a not realistic way, this feels like
Speaker 2: such a realistic Yeah, like it's just so funny because
Speaker 2: it's about an alchemist and a magician. We're both literally
Speaker 2: alchemists and magicians. But it at the same time, it's
Speaker 2: like more realistic of a relationship dynamic than like almost
Speaker 2: anything I read.
Speaker 1: I will say he does start showing his red flags early.
Speaker 1: It's true, like different different lines, like telling her to
Speaker 1: show him what she can really do, worrying about religious
Speaker 1: folks seeing, and worrying about what people think. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he said something like I liked the way the
Speaker 1: alcohol softened her.
Speaker 2: Yes, gross, that's like the creepiest line. And no, there's
Speaker 2: creepier lines, but that's one of them.
Speaker 1: That's one of the top creepy lines. And then I
Speaker 1: wrote I think.
Speaker 3: I hate him a question mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's where it is.
Speaker 1: And then he like directly disrespects her in public and
Speaker 1: belittles that it calls her a perfumist instead of an alchemist.
Speaker 2: And oh see, I thought that was a I think
Speaker 2: that was like him being clever, like doing a joke
Speaker 2: between that. I think that was like an inside joke
Speaker 2: between the two of them.
Speaker 1: I think it was I read it read I read
Speaker 1: it as negative, read it as like he does fake magic,
Speaker 1: she does real magic. So he's going to belitteral her title.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I wouldn't put it past him, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I dislike him as soon as he's like even though
Speaker 2: this is such a real line and it's like a
Speaker 2: pretty good male written by a non male author, moment
Speaker 2: is like, oh, I accidentally hit her in the boob.
Speaker 2: It's the kind of boob I like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: like big and droopy or round and droopy or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: And it's just like, I was just gonna ask, is
Speaker 1: there a We often see this split her into split
Speaker 1: her in half metaphor within literature and within you know,
Speaker 1: just artsy media in general. Is there a bigger meaning
Speaker 1: behind that to you? Or did you take it more
Speaker 1: literally like he was doing a trick or was it
Speaker 1: that he was trying to uh morph her some way?
Speaker 2: I took it kind of literally. I think it's like
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's like a metaphor for like
Speaker 2: I mean, when you do something intense with someone doesn't
Speaker 2: even have to be a metaphors for something sexual. Sometimes
Speaker 2: when you do something really intense with someone, you're gonna
Speaker 2: like see inside them, You're going to see them past
Speaker 2: the boundaries that they try to keep people away from, right,
Speaker 2: And so he's looking inside of her, and it's this
Speaker 2: this clever way I think to be able to like frame,
Speaker 2: he got to see what was really inside her, He
Speaker 2: got to like see her completely, like more than naked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know he called her a good box girl
Speaker 1: and that made my skin crawl.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then like it's funny because upon rereading it the
Speaker 2: first the first section is afterwards like it's and so
Speaker 2: he's like, now he's just doing magic tricks at you know,
Speaker 2: a kid's birthday party or whatever, and he misses her
Speaker 2: and but he doesn't really He's like, when am I
Speaker 2: gonna find my good lie?
Speaker 1: Do you catch that that he got downgraded from big
Speaker 1: show to kids birthday party? Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just like this was, you know, super relatable to
Speaker 1: a lot of people's ex experience dating and having their
Speaker 1: boundaries disrespected. Yeah, and I felt like she and you know,
Speaker 1: he says it at the end, he says something like
Speaker 1: you should have told me how dangerous you are. And
Speaker 1: then he was like you did, And it's like, first
Speaker 1: of all, she has magical powers, bro. Second of all,
Speaker 1: you chose not to listen, tell us your choice. You
Speaker 1: chose to disrespect your boundaries and you went too far
Speaker 1: and you'll regret that the rest of your life. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the only person you can be mad at here is yourself.
Speaker 2: Like, it would be so such an interesting version of
Speaker 2: this story where she's like never mind and he's like okay,
Speaker 2: and they like almost do this really dangerous thing together,
Speaker 2: but she's like nope, I'm good, I gotta stop, and
Speaker 2: then they like go back to like cause that's like
Speaker 2: a that's such a real relationship thing too, right as
Speaker 2: you have those moments where you're like, oh, are we
Speaker 2: doing this thing? And you're like, yeah, we're doing this thing,
Speaker 2: and then you're like wait no and both people are
Speaker 2: like oh did we'd go too far? But you actually
Speaker 2: talk about it and you don't do what this man
Speaker 2: did that I don't know anyway, this version of the
Speaker 2: story is clearly the better way to do it, but
Speaker 2: it's like it would be an interesting comparison to make,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it could be the type of thing
Speaker 1: like going back to five hundred Days of Summer where
Speaker 1: you see the idealized version of the story versus what
Speaker 1: actually happened and having those two comparisons look at like
Speaker 1: what could have been?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like what is the version that each of
Speaker 2: them will tell their grandkids happened.
Speaker 1: I don't think she'll tell her grandkids anything happened. I
Speaker 1: think she'll no.
Speaker 2: And I don't think he'll ever have kids.
Speaker 1: And I don't think he'll ever have kids. One and two.
Speaker 1: I don't think he is a strong enough person to
Speaker 1: admit what actually happened here, and so he would tell
Speaker 1: some ridiculous story that's not actually accurate in anyway she
Speaker 1: performed that makes him look better than he is.
Speaker 2: I think that as the years go by, it would
Speaker 2: become further and further divorced from reality. I think he would,
Speaker 2: you know, by the time he is by the time
Speaker 2: those kids and grandkids, he'd be like, oh, the love
Speaker 2: that got away from me, because you know, this one
Speaker 2: thing that she was to anyway, whatever, Well, what the
Speaker 2: author had to say about it, I asked Catherine Sparrow.
Speaker 2: She wrote, when I wrote it, I was feeling feistier
Speaker 2: than usual about the ways that romance and straight love
Speaker 2: are often told in the rosy patriarchal glow of consent
Speaker 2: violations and boundary crossings, and I hate that. God, I
Speaker 2: love her. I know it's so good.
Speaker 1: Oh, Catherine, what a fantastic author. You are just amazing.
Speaker 2: I am really excited to read more by her. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I asked for plugs and she said, as far
Speaker 2: as plugs. The Fay Morgan Chronicles or some ebooks available
Speaker 2: at Amazon, and they are about a modern day Morgan
Speaker 2: le Fay who is a long lived anarchist witch fighting
Speaker 2: the power and grumpily saving the world. So that might
Speaker 2: be up some people's alleys who are listening to this.
Speaker 1: That's so freaking cool. Yeah, awesome. I enjoyed this so much.
Speaker 2: But yeah, thanks for thanks for being guessed on Cool
Speaker 2: Zone Media book Club if people want to check out.
Speaker 2: If you're listening on this on the It Could Happen
Speaker 2: Here feed, I have another cool Zone Media podcast called
Speaker 2: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff? And if you're listening
Speaker 2: to this on the Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff Feed,
Speaker 2: there's another Cool Zone Media podcast called it Could Happen
Speaker 2: Here that is a daily look at all of the
Speaker 2: things happening in the world that should or shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 2: That's your al's official tagline, right.
Speaker 1: We're chronicling collapse as it happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a better way to put it. Yeah, all right, Well,
Speaker 2: see you all next week.
Speaker 1: Nie. It could Happen Here as a production of cool
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