WEBVTT - Disrupting Congress with Kevin Roberts 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.640 As we cover this fight for the speaker's gavel, what's 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:06.920 really getting lost in a lot of the conversations that 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.280 are happening is that this is also really a fight 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:14.560 over process of how the House functions, how it should function, 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.600 and the people posing Kevin McCarthy. It's not just about McCarthy. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.319 I mean, yeah, you know, some of them really do 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.479 have doubts about him, question him having you know, the 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.000 fact that he's been in a leadership and has been 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.160 in a position authority for so long. They don't trust him. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.600 But there's also the part of wanting changes to the process, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.560 of wanting changes to the things like the Rules Committee. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.320 So I wanted to have someone on to get into 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.320 that process conversation. You know, the people who are listening, 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.160 You guys are busy. You have a billion different things 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.240 going on in your life. I wanted someone to walk 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.800 through with us about why this stuff matters. So we're 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.400 gonna have Dr Kevin Roberts on the show in this episode. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.080 He is the president of the Heritage Foundation, the nation's 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.440 premier conservative think tank, on the show to to breakdown 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.000 the process why all this matters. For instance, even if 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.119 you look at the one point seven trillion dollar omnibus bill. 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.120 Congress doesn't do its job anymore. The reason why we 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.720 have these massive omnibus bills like we did one point 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.800 seven trillion dollars four thousand one five pages that no 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.720 one can read because they're given, you know, hours to 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.679 read it, it's because Congress failed to pass all of 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.679 its appropriations bills. They failed to pass them for twenty 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.640 six straight years in a row. I mean, the last 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:33.720 time Congress met the October first deadline was So why 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.400 does this stuff matter? And it really does all matter, right, 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.080 because the problem what we've seen in America is this 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.440 centralization of power. When the House sees its authority, when 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.920 it does things like even an omnibus bill, it leads 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.760 to a broader centralization of power. In order to right 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.760 the ship, in order to turn this country around, we 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.440 need to make structural changes to the government, including the House, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.919 including Congress. So that's what I see this fight about. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.480 That's why I also think it's important. So we're going 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.080 to talk to Dr Kevin and Roberts, president of the 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.440 Heritage Foundation, of all of this. I think it's a 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:23.360 really important conversation and I hope you enjoy it. Kevin 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.400 Robert's president the Heritage Foundation. Thanks so much for making 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.360 the time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.919 It's my pleasure. Lisa, thanks for everything you do. Oh, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.640 I appreciate what you do. And you know, Kevin, we 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.359 look at this fight right now of Kevin McCarthy coming 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.880 up short to get the speaker's gavel? Why do you 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.359 think he has come up short of? It boils down 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.360 to a trust factor, And there are two elements of that. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.200 The first is talking to members. Is I know that 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.640 you do who are very thoughtful about it. These are 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.200 people who are willing to see McCarthy be speaker. They 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.040 have a very hard time given his track record, and 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.400 I mean that respect fully of him to say that 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.480 any any deal that they strike with him is going 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.520 to be honored. And I think that's why this has 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.080 taken so long. The second aspect is the perspective that 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.160 I have as a lifelong movement conservative, and it's it's 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.640 less about McCarthy in particular than it is about McCarthy 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.280 kind of being the icon of a problem, and that 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.920 is the Washington establishment, the swamp, and so all of 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.720 the incentives in Washington is you and your audience. No, well, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.519 are oriented around spending too much, giving k Street lobbyists 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.640 way too much influence, letting them write bills. And this 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.600 process has has taken a long time because, thank goodness, 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.320 members of the House had the courage to stand up 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.680 and say, regardless of what someone thinks about Kevin McCarthy, 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.160 good or bad or in between, we are going to 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.120 use this process to do the work of the people, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.120 which is to bring order back to the House. And 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.160 and that to some up here was such a shock 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.040 to the system, Lisa, that it really did grind the 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.280 whole proceedings to a halt. I'm so gratified because it's 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.520 one of the few times in the last ten years 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.240 that I've seen kind of regular people be able to 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:10.880 take one to the swamp well. And I think that's 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.560 what's sort of getting lost in the broader conversations, it 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.080 seems like to me, is that this is a process fight, right, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.520 This is about changing the way Congress works, changing the 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.320 way the House works, because we've really gone away from 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.320 the mission of what the House is supposed to do, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.560 the work these individuals that we send to Congress are 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.719 supposed to do. You know, for instance, I know some 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.800 of the you know, some of the things that they're 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.800 looking to change is just the balance of power on 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.080 the Rules Committee. I don't think people really realize just 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.760 how much power the Rules Committee has in dictating the 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.960 floor agenda what they're voting on. So, you know, kind 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.880 of get into some of these structural changes that these 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.000 members are asking for and why that is important, why 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.520 people should care about that. Yeah, I know when people 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.640 hear the phrase rules committee, their eyes glaze over and say, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.440 it's it's DC speaking. To some extent, they would be right. 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:03.480 But the way I every including some close friends, is 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.960 it's like your family meeting, which you know, and my experience, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.080 happens on Sunday nights, and so the members of the 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.520 Rules Committee fly into d C a day early and 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.960 they basically set the agenda for House proceedings that week. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.720 The other aspect of that means that if the Rules 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.320 Committee doesn't authorize a bill to be heard or committee 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.520 proceedings to proceed, it doesn't happen. So you want to 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.560 be on the Rules Committee if you want to exert 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.040 the most influence in the chamber. The last aspect of this, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.200 which is the most relevant to all of these conversations 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:41.359 surrounding McCarthy speakership is that conservatives have not had seats 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.880 on the Rules Committee, and the most conservative of the House, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.120 the House Freedom Caucus, definitely haven't. So it is a 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.680 would be a huge boon to conservative policy reform, which 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.000 of course Heritage is interested in, and to some extent 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.679 leading if there are more conservatives on the Rules Committee 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.080 that there will be a direct correlation between their membership 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.320 on that committee and seeing more conservative bills get to 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.360 the floor. Well, and I think one of the and 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.160 and that's why, you know, it's important because regardless who 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.479 ends up being the speaker, why should anyone have absolute power? Right? 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.640 We don't want anyone in any position of authority in 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.960 the United States to have absolute power. In fact, that's 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.839 the antithesis of what the United States is supposed to 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.360 stand for. You know, we need these checks and balances, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.320 we need to balance out that power. And you know, 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.080 I think one of the other concerns too, is the 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.400 ability to make points of order on the floor of 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.039 regarding amendments that aren't Germaine and far too often what 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.440 we see in in Congress and what goes on to 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.680 Capitol Hills. You've all these massive bills with so many 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.240 things in it that aren't even relevant, like what the 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.320 bill is supposed to be about. Uh. And and that's 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.120 how we get a lot of garbage that ends up 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.640 getting passed through Congress. It's so true. I mean, this week, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.680 I've taken so many barbs. It's far fewer than the 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.080 than the twenty members, for sure, but so many barbs 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.359 for saying that this is not chaos, or if it 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.880 is chaos, it's welcome chaos, because the real chaos, to 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.400 your point, in the House has been they haven't passed 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.760 a budget in over a decade. The one member can't 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.320 offer an amendment without getting permission from the speaker. For 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.280 for Americans who just in their common sense say that 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.040 doesn't make sense, they would be right, because a well 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:24.480 functioning legislative body, especially one that is apportioned according to population, 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.120 needs to be as little d democratic or as as 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.760 democratic as it can and and these rules stand in 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.600 the way of an individual member being able to represent 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.080 his or her constituents. So what all of this is 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.080 about is, as we like to say, returning to regular order. 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.240 What regular order means is that you have a House 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.400 that passes a budget. You have a House that actually, 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.320 when it says it's going to give members three days 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.800 to read a bill before they have to vote on it, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.640 does so, and a House where the committee agenda is posted. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.920 None of that has been going on. And the reason 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.680 that none of that has been going on isn't just 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.840 the terrible problem you mentioned, which is the centralization of 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.800 power in the speaker's hands, personified by Nancy Pelosi, but 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.120 something even more defarious, and that is that K Street 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.040 lobbying firms right bills and write the scripts of how 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.160 those bill debates are going to go, which means there 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.600 aren't any debates. All of this well, not a complete win, 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:31.040 yet I think does signify that we're beginning. Good guys 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.520 are beginning to get grips on the swamp in terms 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.160 of House rules and proceedings, and we can convert that 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.640 into some conservative policy wins, even if it's just two 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.760 or three this spring, then I think we're beginning to 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.240 take back Washington for the American people. Well, and what's 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.440 interesting too, is that you know, we're talking about Congress, 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.160 which has an atrocious approval ratings, So the vast, vast, 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.680 vast majority of Americans do not approve of the way 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.480 that Congress does business, and then here you have people 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.720 trying to change the way Congress does business and they're 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.839 getting attacked. So it's like, you know what you mean, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.840 it's it's kind of nothing makes sense these days. No, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.800 it's like everything is inverted. You know, you're like you 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.200 My first reaction to all of this, I saw that 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.920 this was going to happen, uh New Year's Eve, New 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.439 Year's Day, was this is awesome. And then even friendly 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.280 news outlets, friendly news commentators, friends to both of us, 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.480 their first responses I thought were really off base. I 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.000 won't call them out because I think they were well intentioned, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.720 but they were thinking, this isn't how it's supposed to work. 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.400 And I'm sitting there thinking, no, it is how it's 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.560 supposed to work. This is democracy in action. But the 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.360 swamp has conditioned us to some really bad habits and behavior. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.800 So even people who are genuine conservatives and very thoughtful 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.360 news commentators were kind of duped. And it's been interesting 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.520 to see you over the last several days that the 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.760 conservative commentary on this has really come home, so to speak. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.720 We realize we need to talk like conservatives rather than 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.600 how the establishment wants us to. Well, that's a great point, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.000 you know, And part of it is so I remember 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.120 banging on Lou Dobbs when I was first getting started 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.920 in in media, and I was trying to explain the 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.800 appropriations process, and he asked me, point blank, Lisa, do 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.040 you think the audience's eyes are glazed over? It was 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.920 like I hadn't thought about it. I thought it was interesting, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.320 you know. But but so part of the challenge and 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.400 communicating a lot of this is explaining, you know, trying 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.240 to get across of why all this stuff matters and 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.800 why they want, you know, why we should be taking 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.200 back the reins of power, you know. And part of that, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.360 you know, when you had mentioned the budget and we 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.560 look at this, you know, one point seven trillion dollar 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.840 on amnibus. We've got trillions of dollars spent during COVID 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.040 on quote unquote relief which went to you know, things 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.760 like building uh stadiums and stuff like that. Uh, you know, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.839 you've got uh, you know, we know Congress can't read 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.480 you know, four thousand and are pages and no matter 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.520 of a couple of hours, right Uh. And then so anyway, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.280 so so we've got like this failure to past appropriations bills. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.480 We've got all this spending, how do you explain to 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.439 the American people, You know, I guess why and over 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.240 thirty one trillion dollar debt matters? Or why in appropriations 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.160 getting those bills done in the in the regular order 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.160 for appropriations process matters. Yeah. I think the way we 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.800 we sometimes explained it, and I'm guilty of this, is 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.839 is you divide up the thirty one trillion by the 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:26.960 number of Americans and you say, you see it matters. 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.280 It's a really big number. And I tried this out 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.840 on my own kids, and they looked at me and said, Dad, um, 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.320 that's so much money. I can't even comprehend it. And 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.960 I think most Americans react that way, that that's so 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.640 many zeros after the thirty one they can't comprehend it. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.760 So I think the much more effective way is to 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.240 draw the connection between spending that money on different examples 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.200 of plans, whether it be your tax money on a 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.320 you know, on a football stadium halfway across the country. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.520 That football stadium might be a good idea for those 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.200 people there, let them pay for it rather than me, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.280 or as a sort of my favorite examples, Lisa the 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.240 amount of money we're spending on ridiculous programs and education 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.200 that just on their face aren't about education. They're really 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.160 about a very radical agenda very few Americans agree with. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.720 In other words, to show that the whole process is 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.560 built to be not transparent, and we know that anything 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.640 that doesn't have the light of day generally is not 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.199 going to be good, especially when it's in Washington, d C. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:30.840 And then when you get to the actual nuts and 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.679 bolts of the budget, not only just the sheer size 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.040 of it, but the examples of what we're spending money on, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.120 for that matter, including some defense programs, which is a 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.360 real sensitive point for Republicans who are defense hawks, you 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.600 begin to understand that those whole processes oriented around making 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.120 the most power, creating the most power in Washington, d C. 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.040 Freedom is a zero sum thing. It's you know, if 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.720 it's a if it's a pie and the government's taking 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.320 seven eighths of that, we only get one. We're not 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.600 able to make a bigger pie. And so what we 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.319 have to understand is that there is a direct correlation 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.200 between the lack of transparency in the process plus the 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.959 amount of money being spent and a decrease in our 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.400 own self governance. Quick break back with Dr Kevin Roberts. 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.800 I hope more people have opened their eyes because I know, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.400 you know, COVID was a real awakening moment of me 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.760 of just realizing how little power we really have over 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.400 our own lives these days, you know, and how much 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.319 the people in charge, you know, how they don't believe 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.440 in individual liberty and they don't believe in the things 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.360 this country as supposed to stand for. So, you know, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.880 to your point, the more power that Congress seeds to 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.560 the executive branch, or the more that uh, these you know, 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.240 institutions don't do their jobs and the way they're supposed to, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.200 we end up in the position where we've were during COVID, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.320 in the direction we're going in, where you know, we 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.600 really have a government that's working against us, whether for 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:58.120 it as opposed to for us. Yeah, that's exactly right. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.120 And and and to really underscore that point, I think 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:06.240 about the natural reaction most conservatives have to Washington's power, 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.360 and this is this is this information. I'm just going 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.680 to point out a flaw in that, and that inclination 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.480 is to put more emphasis on state power, more emphasis 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.960 on so called local control, well, the problem, you know, 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:23.120 another two dots to connect the problem with that amount 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.960 of federal spending is that it begins to put guard 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.880 rails on what states and localities can do. And so 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.440 if we experience more direct influence over those elected officials 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.320 who are closest to us, our city councilmen, are county commissioners, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.600 are state legislators, perhaps even our governors, if their own 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.840 authority is being undermined by the amount of power that 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.680 Washington has, then you begin to see the picture, which 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.360 is that that dysfunction in Washington has a direct effect 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.800 on us in our daily lives. Talk to I'm going 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.880 to encourage your audience to do this. Talk to your 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.240 city council member, Republican or Democrat or independent, and ask 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:05.040 them what's the what's the influence of Washington spending on 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.920 your town, spending on your city spending? It dominates it. 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.280 And so what what the government has tried to do 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.920 is established this one to one relationship with us, with 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.280 each citizen. That's not what the founders wanted, because what 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.520 they wanted was to diffuse power as much as they 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.720 could across many different communities and people so that it's 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.480 never centralized the process to sum up here and the 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:33.840 spending are are all very bad signs of rotten fruit unfortunately. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.320 Power to to your point, and also part of it is, 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.320 you know, having you know, governors and people who are 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.840 willing to be fighters and stand up against the federal government. 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.480 You know, I live in Florida, very thankful to have 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.960 someone like Governor to Santis who is not afraid to 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.960 to have that fight. You know, I was arguing on 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.760 on Twitter a while back that conservative governor should form 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.680 a coalition like almost like the Freedom Caucus to some degree, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.240 because you know, we've got the r g A, but 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.960 oftentimes you know that they're not really challenging the federal 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.200 powers as much as they should. And so you know, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.280 having some sort of like collective group of conservative governors 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.280 because you know, we control so many triffect us throughout 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.880 the country, I think that would go a long way 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.880 of sort of banding together and uh, you know, fighting 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.400 the federal government on a lot of these big issues. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.560 We need to do so much more of that, and 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.480 and that's one of the things that we're trying to do, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.280 and HERITAGEES has really helped to facilitate that kind of thing, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.680 especially in the two years left that we have in 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.360 Biden's first term, not controlling both chambers of Congress, that 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.240 perhaps even more powerful than the majority in the House, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.160 even if that majority ends up being effective and bold 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.720 and all those things. To your point is if we 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.400 have five or or a dozen conservative governors who are 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.080 banding together. We've seen a little bit of that with 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.680 the border security issue. You've seen Governor to Santis and 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.200 Governor Nome, then Governor Doc really help out Governor Abbot 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.640 and Texas who was bearing the front of of Biden's 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.080 nonsense at the border. We also saw it a little 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.040 bit on healthcare back when Obamacare was a debate. But 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.040 I'll also mention a huge success story, and it's it's 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.960 under Obama's Clean Power Plan. There was a formal interstate compact, 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.320 which has been used several times in our country's history, 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.240 where about ten or twelve states got together and said 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.920 we are just not going to implement these policies. That 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.240 was crucial. Even though that ended up being the Clean 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.880 Power Plan just struck down in court, it was crucial 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.800 to building a public awareness about how bad that policy is. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.359 So I think, moving forward and quickly, we need to 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.800 pick those two or three issues where we could really 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.399 help ban some conservative governors together, to paraphrase Buckley here 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.600 stand out for our history and say inmanti of governors 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.359 even holding a press conference together and saying this is 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.159 how we're going to keep the government in check on 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.120 even during COVID or whatever the issue is. And they're 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.080 all saying the same thing or holding the line that 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.560 says a lot more. And you know, just an individual 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.760 governor waging these fights and then getting bludgeoned by you know, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.960 a progressive media and people that are carrying the water 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.840 for the left, which is a lot of people these days. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.400 You know, I wanted to ask you, looking ahead, looking 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.280 at this Congress, what do you want to see from 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:23.960 Republican let House. Well, I want to see a good 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:28.320 combination of three things. First, oversight and a proper amount 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.000 of oversight. I'll explain a little bit what I mean 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.960 by that. Secondly, some shorter term tactical victories which I 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.320 know may die in the Senate, but it's important for 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.439 the House Republicans to exert the control that they have. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.639 And and thirdly, one or two long term visionary bills 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.119 that of course we know will not pass the Senate, 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.520 and even if they would be vetoed by Biden. But 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.800 I'm going to start with those, and the reason is 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.679 that I think the greatest thing that's missing in the 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.720 conservative movement right now is an aspirational vision of what 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.720 a more conservative governance looks like. And so at Heritage, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.359 we're we're we're helping to write a bill that would 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.240 eliminate the U. S Department of Education. Now, you and 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.159 I both know that if that happens, it's going to 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.520 be take a lot of years. But that's the kind 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:18.000 of thing that, as one example, the House Republicans should 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.440 pass because it will show Americans this is the fix 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.639 to all of the things you're feeling in your local 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.520 school districts. The more tactical, short term knife fighting, as 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.600 I like to call it, would be things like refusing 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.200 to implement any program in the Department of Homeland Security 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.160 that's not zealously focused on border security, refusing to fund 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.040 the eight seven thousand r S agents. I know that 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.439 that money has been allocated for the current budget cycle. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.360 But going back to our conversation about the Rules Committee, 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.840 if there are conservatives on that Rules Committee not to 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.480 sort of too deeply an inside baseball. Here there is 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.359 a way to retract that funding and and instead go 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.240 hire more border patrol agents. These aren't just messaging bills. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.119 They actually can improve the quality of lives for many Americans, 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.919 especially on the border. But then the first thing I mentioned, 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.840 which is oversight, something that that Heritage is doing through 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.639 our Oversight project. We need to make sure that the 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.800 House Republicans are picking two or three gigantic oversight battles. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.119 I happen to think they're about the border, the FBI, 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.840 maybe some of the diversity equity and inclusion nonsense, and education, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.760 and we need to have them conduct investigations about those things. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.680 But it cannot just be investigations if if all we're 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.840 doing is putting on a show for conservative media outlets, 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.240 Heritage has no interest in that. We want those oversight 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.280 investigations to lead to policy change ultimately so that we 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.800 restore freedom to the American people. Some combination of those 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.040 three things I think not only will be successful and 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:55.000 actually mildly improve americans lives this year, but very importantly 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.240 for the election cycle, it's going to show candidates for 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.879 every office from president down to state legislature the kinds 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:04.960 of things you need to talk about in order to 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.359 build a governing majority, something like the Benghazi Committee, where 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.920 it's just sort of a you know, we need something 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:12.840 like a Church committee or you know, where we're having 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.199 sort of methodical, thoughtful conversations and also structural ways that 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.040 we want to change things moving forward, because I really 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.720 think the only way this country survives, in my opinion, 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.480 is to have people in government that are dedicated to 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.640 destroying government, because we've just gotten so big, We've lost 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.880