1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: As we cover this fight for the speaker's gavel, what's 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: really getting lost in a lot of the conversations that 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: are happening is that this is also really a fight 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: over process of how the House functions, how it should function, 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: and the people posing Kevin McCarthy. It's not just about McCarthy. 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you know, some of them really do 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: have doubts about him, question him having you know, the 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: fact that he's been in a leadership and has been 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: in a position authority for so long. They don't trust him. 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: But there's also the part of wanting changes to the process, 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: of wanting changes to the things like the Rules Committee. 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: So I wanted to have someone on to get into 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: that process conversation. You know, the people who are listening, 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: You guys are busy. You have a billion different things 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: going on in your life. I wanted someone to walk 16 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: through with us about why this stuff matters. So we're 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: gonna have Dr Kevin Roberts on the show in this episode. 18 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: He is the president of the Heritage Foundation, the nation's 19 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: premier conservative think tank, on the show to to breakdown 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: the process why all this matters. For instance, even if 21 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: you look at the one point seven trillion dollar omnibus bill. 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Congress doesn't do its job anymore. The reason why we 23 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: have these massive omnibus bills like we did one point 24 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: seven trillion dollars four thousand one five pages that no 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: one can read because they're given, you know, hours to 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: read it, it's because Congress failed to pass all of 27 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: its appropriations bills. They failed to pass them for twenty 28 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: six straight years in a row. I mean, the last 29 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: time Congress met the October first deadline was So why 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: does this stuff matter? And it really does all matter, right, 31 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: because the problem what we've seen in America is this 32 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: centralization of power. When the House sees its authority, when 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: it does things like even an omnibus bill, it leads 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: to a broader centralization of power. In order to right 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: the ship, in order to turn this country around, we 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: need to make structural changes to the government, including the House, 37 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,919 Speaker 1: including Congress. So that's what I see this fight about. 38 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: That's why I also think it's important. So we're going 39 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: to talk to Dr Kevin and Roberts, president of the 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation, of all of this. I think it's a 41 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: really important conversation and I hope you enjoy it. Kevin 42 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: Robert's president the Heritage Foundation. Thanks so much for making 43 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: the time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: It's my pleasure. Lisa, thanks for everything you do. Oh, 45 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: I appreciate what you do. And you know, Kevin, we 46 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: look at this fight right now of Kevin McCarthy coming 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: up short to get the speaker's gavel? Why do you 48 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: think he has come up short of? It boils down 49 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: to a trust factor, And there are two elements of that. 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: The first is talking to members. Is I know that 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: you do who are very thoughtful about it. These are 52 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: people who are willing to see McCarthy be speaker. They 53 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: have a very hard time given his track record, and 54 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: I mean that respect fully of him to say that 55 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: any any deal that they strike with him is going 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: to be honored. And I think that's why this has 57 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: taken so long. The second aspect is the perspective that 58 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: I have as a lifelong movement conservative, and it's it's 59 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: less about McCarthy in particular than it is about McCarthy 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: kind of being the icon of a problem, and that 61 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: is the Washington establishment, the swamp, and so all of 62 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: the incentives in Washington is you and your audience. No, well, 63 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: are oriented around spending too much, giving k Street lobbyists 64 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: way too much influence, letting them write bills. And this 65 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: process has has taken a long time because, thank goodness, 66 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: members of the House had the courage to stand up 67 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: and say, regardless of what someone thinks about Kevin McCarthy, 68 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: good or bad or in between, we are going to 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: use this process to do the work of the people, 70 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: which is to bring order back to the House. And 71 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: and that to some up here was such a shock 72 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: to the system, Lisa, that it really did grind the 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: whole proceedings to a halt. I'm so gratified because it's 74 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: one of the few times in the last ten years 75 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: that I've seen kind of regular people be able to 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: take one to the swamp well. And I think that's 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: what's sort of getting lost in the broader conversations, it 78 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: seems like to me, is that this is a process fight, right, 79 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: This is about changing the way Congress works, changing the 80 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: way the House works, because we've really gone away from 81 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: the mission of what the House is supposed to do, 82 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: the work these individuals that we send to Congress are 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: supposed to do. You know, for instance, I know some 84 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: of the you know, some of the things that they're 85 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: looking to change is just the balance of power on 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: the Rules Committee. I don't think people really realize just 87 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: how much power the Rules Committee has in dictating the 88 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: floor agenda what they're voting on. So, you know, kind 89 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: of get into some of these structural changes that these 90 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: members are asking for and why that is important, why 91 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: people should care about that. Yeah, I know when people 92 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: hear the phrase rules committee, their eyes glaze over and say, 93 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: it's it's DC speaking. To some extent, they would be right. 94 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: But the way I every including some close friends, is 95 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: it's like your family meeting, which you know, and my experience, 96 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: happens on Sunday nights, and so the members of the 97 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: Rules Committee fly into d C a day early and 98 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: they basically set the agenda for House proceedings that week. 99 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: The other aspect of that means that if the Rules 100 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: Committee doesn't authorize a bill to be heard or committee 101 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: proceedings to proceed, it doesn't happen. So you want to 102 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: be on the Rules Committee if you want to exert 103 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: the most influence in the chamber. The last aspect of this, 104 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: which is the most relevant to all of these conversations 105 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: surrounding McCarthy speakership is that conservatives have not had seats 106 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: on the Rules Committee, and the most conservative of the House, 107 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: the House Freedom Caucus, definitely haven't. So it is a 108 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: would be a huge boon to conservative policy reform, which 109 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: of course Heritage is interested in, and to some extent 110 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: leading if there are more conservatives on the Rules Committee 111 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: that there will be a direct correlation between their membership 112 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: on that committee and seeing more conservative bills get to 113 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: the floor. Well, and I think one of the and 114 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: and that's why, you know, it's important because regardless who 115 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: ends up being the speaker, why should anyone have absolute power? Right? 116 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: We don't want anyone in any position of authority in 117 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: the United States to have absolute power. In fact, that's 118 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: the antithesis of what the United States is supposed to 119 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: stand for. You know, we need these checks and balances, 120 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: we need to balance out that power. And you know, 121 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: I think one of the other concerns too, is the 122 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: ability to make points of order on the floor of 123 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: regarding amendments that aren't Germaine and far too often what 124 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: we see in in Congress and what goes on to 125 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: Capitol Hills. You've all these massive bills with so many 126 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: things in it that aren't even relevant, like what the 127 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: bill is supposed to be about. Uh. And and that's 128 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: how we get a lot of garbage that ends up 129 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: getting passed through Congress. It's so true. I mean, this week, 130 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: I've taken so many barbs. It's far fewer than the 131 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: than the twenty members, for sure, but so many barbs 132 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: for saying that this is not chaos, or if it 133 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: is chaos, it's welcome chaos, because the real chaos, to 134 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: your point, in the House has been they haven't passed 135 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: a budget in over a decade. The one member can't 136 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: offer an amendment without getting permission from the speaker. For 137 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: for Americans who just in their common sense say that 138 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, they would be right, because a well 139 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: functioning legislative body, especially one that is apportioned according to population, 140 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: needs to be as little d democratic or as as 141 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: democratic as it can and and these rules stand in 142 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: the way of an individual member being able to represent 143 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: his or her constituents. So what all of this is 144 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: about is, as we like to say, returning to regular order. 145 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: What regular order means is that you have a House 146 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: that passes a budget. You have a House that actually, 147 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: when it says it's going to give members three days 148 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: to read a bill before they have to vote on it, 149 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: does so, and a House where the committee agenda is posted. 150 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: None of that has been going on. And the reason 151 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: that none of that has been going on isn't just 152 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: the terrible problem you mentioned, which is the centralization of 153 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: power in the speaker's hands, personified by Nancy Pelosi, but 154 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: something even more defarious, and that is that K Street 155 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: lobbying firms right bills and write the scripts of how 156 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: those bill debates are going to go, which means there 157 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: aren't any debates. All of this well, not a complete win, 158 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: yet I think does signify that we're beginning. Good guys 159 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: are beginning to get grips on the swamp in terms 160 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: of House rules and proceedings, and we can convert that 161 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: into some conservative policy wins, even if it's just two 162 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: or three this spring, then I think we're beginning to 163 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: take back Washington for the American people. Well, and what's 164 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: interesting too, is that you know, we're talking about Congress, 165 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: which has an atrocious approval ratings, So the vast, vast, 166 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: vast majority of Americans do not approve of the way 167 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: that Congress does business, and then here you have people 168 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: trying to change the way Congress does business and they're 169 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: getting attacked. So it's like, you know what you mean, 170 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of nothing makes sense these days. No, 171 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: it's like everything is inverted. You know, you're like you 172 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: My first reaction to all of this, I saw that 173 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: this was going to happen, uh New Year's Eve, New 174 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: Year's Day, was this is awesome. And then even friendly 175 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: news outlets, friendly news commentators, friends to both of us, 176 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: their first responses I thought were really off base. I 177 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: won't call them out because I think they were well intentioned, 178 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: but they were thinking, this isn't how it's supposed to work. 179 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there thinking, no, it is how it's 180 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: supposed to work. This is democracy in action. But the 181 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: swamp has conditioned us to some really bad habits and behavior. 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: So even people who are genuine conservatives and very thoughtful 183 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: news commentators were kind of duped. And it's been interesting 184 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: to see you over the last several days that the 185 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: conservative commentary on this has really come home, so to speak. 186 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: We realize we need to talk like conservatives rather than 187 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: how the establishment wants us to. Well, that's a great point, 188 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, And part of it is so I remember 189 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: banging on Lou Dobbs when I was first getting started 190 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: in in media, and I was trying to explain the 191 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: appropriations process, and he asked me, point blank, Lisa, do 192 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: you think the audience's eyes are glazed over? It was 193 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: like I hadn't thought about it. I thought it was interesting, 194 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: you know. But but so part of the challenge and 195 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: communicating a lot of this is explaining, you know, trying 196 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: to get across of why all this stuff matters and 197 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: why they want, you know, why we should be taking 198 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: back the reins of power, you know. And part of that, 199 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, when you had mentioned the budget and we 200 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: look at this, you know, one point seven trillion dollar 201 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: on amnibus. We've got trillions of dollars spent during COVID 202 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: on quote unquote relief which went to you know, things 203 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: like building uh stadiums and stuff like that. Uh, you know, 204 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: you've got uh, you know, we know Congress can't read 205 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, four thousand and are pages and no matter 206 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: of a couple of hours, right Uh. And then so anyway, 207 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: so so we've got like this failure to past appropriations bills. 208 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: We've got all this spending, how do you explain to 209 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: the American people, You know, I guess why and over 210 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: thirty one trillion dollar debt matters? Or why in appropriations 211 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: getting those bills done in the in the regular order 212 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: for appropriations process matters. Yeah. I think the way we 213 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: we sometimes explained it, and I'm guilty of this, is 214 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: is you divide up the thirty one trillion by the 215 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: number of Americans and you say, you see it matters. 216 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: It's a really big number. And I tried this out 217 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: on my own kids, and they looked at me and said, Dad, um, 218 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: that's so much money. I can't even comprehend it. And 219 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: I think most Americans react that way, that that's so 220 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: many zeros after the thirty one they can't comprehend it. 221 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: So I think the much more effective way is to 222 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: draw the connection between spending that money on different examples 223 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: of plans, whether it be your tax money on a 224 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, on a football stadium halfway across the country. 225 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: That football stadium might be a good idea for those 226 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: people there, let them pay for it rather than me, 227 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: or as a sort of my favorite examples, Lisa the 228 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: amount of money we're spending on ridiculous programs and education 229 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: that just on their face aren't about education. They're really 230 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: about a very radical agenda very few Americans agree with. 231 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: In other words, to show that the whole process is 232 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: built to be not transparent, and we know that anything 233 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't have the light of day generally is not 234 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: going to be good, especially when it's in Washington, d C. 235 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: And then when you get to the actual nuts and 236 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: bolts of the budget, not only just the sheer size 237 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: of it, but the examples of what we're spending money on, 238 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: for that matter, including some defense programs, which is a 239 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: real sensitive point for Republicans who are defense hawks, you 240 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: begin to understand that those whole processes oriented around making 241 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: the most power, creating the most power in Washington, d C. 242 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: Freedom is a zero sum thing. It's you know, if 243 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: it's a if it's a pie and the government's taking 244 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: seven eighths of that, we only get one. We're not 245 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: able to make a bigger pie. And so what we 246 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: have to understand is that there is a direct correlation 247 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: between the lack of transparency in the process plus the 248 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: amount of money being spent and a decrease in our 249 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: own self governance. Quick break back with Dr Kevin Roberts. 250 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: I hope more people have opened their eyes because I know, 251 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, COVID was a real awakening moment of me 252 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: of just realizing how little power we really have over 253 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: our own lives these days, you know, and how much 254 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: the people in charge, you know, how they don't believe 255 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: in individual liberty and they don't believe in the things 256 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: this country as supposed to stand for. So, you know, 257 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: to your point, the more power that Congress seeds to 258 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: the executive branch, or the more that uh, these you know, 259 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: institutions don't do their jobs and the way they're supposed to, 260 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: we end up in the position where we've were during COVID, 261 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: in the direction we're going in, where you know, we 262 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: really have a government that's working against us, whether for 263 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: it as opposed to for us. Yeah, that's exactly right. 264 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: And and and to really underscore that point, I think 265 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: about the natural reaction most conservatives have to Washington's power, 266 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: and this is this is this information. I'm just going 267 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: to point out a flaw in that, and that inclination 268 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: is to put more emphasis on state power, more emphasis 269 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: on so called local control, well, the problem, you know, 270 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: another two dots to connect the problem with that amount 271 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: of federal spending is that it begins to put guard 272 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: rails on what states and localities can do. And so 273 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: if we experience more direct influence over those elected officials 274 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: who are closest to us, our city councilmen, are county commissioners, 275 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: are state legislators, perhaps even our governors, if their own 276 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: authority is being undermined by the amount of power that 277 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: Washington has, then you begin to see the picture, which 278 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: is that that dysfunction in Washington has a direct effect 279 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: on us in our daily lives. Talk to I'm going 280 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: to encourage your audience to do this. Talk to your 281 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: city council member, Republican or Democrat or independent, and ask 282 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: them what's the what's the influence of Washington spending on 283 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: your town, spending on your city spending? It dominates it. 284 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: And so what what the government has tried to do 285 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: is established this one to one relationship with us, with 286 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: each citizen. That's not what the founders wanted, because what 287 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: they wanted was to diffuse power as much as they 288 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: could across many different communities and people so that it's 289 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: never centralized the process to sum up here and the 290 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: spending are are all very bad signs of rotten fruit unfortunately. 291 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Power to to your point, and also part of it is, 292 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: you know, having you know, governors and people who are 293 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: willing to be fighters and stand up against the federal government. 294 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: You know, I live in Florida, very thankful to have 295 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: someone like Governor to Santis who is not afraid to 296 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: to have that fight. You know, I was arguing on 297 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter a while back that conservative governor should form 298 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: a coalition like almost like the Freedom Caucus to some degree, 299 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: because you know, we've got the r g A, but 300 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: oftentimes you know that they're not really challenging the federal 301 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: powers as much as they should. And so you know, 302 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: having some sort of like collective group of conservative governors 303 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: because you know, we control so many triffect us throughout 304 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: the country, I think that would go a long way 305 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: of sort of banding together and uh, you know, fighting 306 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: the federal government on a lot of these big issues. 307 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: We need to do so much more of that, and 308 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that we're trying to do, 309 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: and HERITAGEES has really helped to facilitate that kind of thing, 310 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: especially in the two years left that we have in 311 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Biden's first term, not controlling both chambers of Congress, that 312 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: perhaps even more powerful than the majority in the House, 313 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: even if that majority ends up being effective and bold 314 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: and all those things. To your point is if we 315 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: have five or or a dozen conservative governors who are 316 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: banding together. We've seen a little bit of that with 317 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: the border security issue. You've seen Governor to Santis and 318 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: Governor Nome, then Governor Doc really help out Governor Abbot 319 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: and Texas who was bearing the front of of Biden's 320 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: nonsense at the border. We also saw it a little 321 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: bit on healthcare back when Obamacare was a debate. But 322 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: I'll also mention a huge success story, and it's it's 323 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: under Obama's Clean Power Plan. There was a formal interstate compact, 324 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: which has been used several times in our country's history, 325 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: where about ten or twelve states got together and said 326 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: we are just not going to implement these policies. That 327 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: was crucial. Even though that ended up being the Clean 328 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: Power Plan just struck down in court, it was crucial 329 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: to building a public awareness about how bad that policy is. 330 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: So I think, moving forward and quickly, we need to 331 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: pick those two or three issues where we could really 332 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: help ban some conservative governors together, to paraphrase Buckley here 333 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: stand out for our history and say inmanti of governors 334 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: even holding a press conference together and saying this is 335 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: how we're going to keep the government in check on 336 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: even during COVID or whatever the issue is. And they're 337 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: all saying the same thing or holding the line that 338 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: says a lot more. And you know, just an individual 339 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: governor waging these fights and then getting bludgeoned by you know, 340 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: a progressive media and people that are carrying the water 341 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: for the left, which is a lot of people these days. 342 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to ask you, looking ahead, looking 343 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: at this Congress, what do you want to see from 344 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Republican let House. Well, I want to see a good 345 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: combination of three things. First, oversight and a proper amount 346 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: of oversight. I'll explain a little bit what I mean 347 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: by that. Secondly, some shorter term tactical victories which I 348 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: know may die in the Senate, but it's important for 349 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: the House Republicans to exert the control that they have. 350 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: And and thirdly, one or two long term visionary bills 351 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: that of course we know will not pass the Senate, 352 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: and even if they would be vetoed by Biden. But 353 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to start with those, and the reason is 354 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: that I think the greatest thing that's missing in the 355 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: conservative movement right now is an aspirational vision of what 356 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: a more conservative governance looks like. And so at Heritage, 357 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: we're we're we're helping to write a bill that would 358 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: eliminate the U. S Department of Education. Now, you and 359 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: I both know that if that happens, it's going to 360 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: be take a lot of years. But that's the kind 361 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: of thing that, as one example, the House Republicans should 362 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: pass because it will show Americans this is the fix 363 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: to all of the things you're feeling in your local 364 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: school districts. The more tactical, short term knife fighting, as 365 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: I like to call it, would be things like refusing 366 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: to implement any program in the Department of Homeland Security 367 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: that's not zealously focused on border security, refusing to fund 368 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: the eight seven thousand r S agents. I know that 369 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: that money has been allocated for the current budget cycle. 370 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: But going back to our conversation about the Rules Committee, 371 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: if there are conservatives on that Rules Committee not to 372 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of too deeply an inside baseball. Here there is 373 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: a way to retract that funding and and instead go 374 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: hire more border patrol agents. These aren't just messaging bills. 375 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: They actually can improve the quality of lives for many Americans, 376 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: especially on the border. But then the first thing I mentioned, 377 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: which is oversight, something that that Heritage is doing through 378 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: our Oversight project. We need to make sure that the 379 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: House Republicans are picking two or three gigantic oversight battles. 380 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: I happen to think they're about the border, the FBI, 381 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: maybe some of the diversity equity and inclusion nonsense, and education, 382 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: and we need to have them conduct investigations about those things. 383 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: But it cannot just be investigations if if all we're 384 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: doing is putting on a show for conservative media outlets, 385 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: Heritage has no interest in that. We want those oversight 386 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: investigations to lead to policy change ultimately so that we 387 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: restore freedom to the American people. Some combination of those 388 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: three things I think not only will be successful and 389 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: actually mildly improve americans lives this year, but very importantly 390 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: for the election cycle, it's going to show candidates for 391 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: every office from president down to state legislature the kinds 392 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: of things you need to talk about in order to 393 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: build a governing majority, something like the Benghazi Committee, where 394 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: it's just sort of a you know, we need something 395 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: like a Church committee or you know, where we're having 396 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: sort of methodical, thoughtful conversations and also structural ways that 397 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: we want to change things moving forward, because I really 398 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: think the only way this country survives, in my opinion, 399 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: is to have people in government that are dedicated to 400 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: destroying government, because we've just gotten so big, We've lost 401 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: so much control of our lives, We've lost so much 402 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: liberty during COVID. I mean, it just escalated so quickly 403 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: that the only way that the Republic survives is people 404 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: that want to destroy government. As It's just the way 405 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: I see it. Yeah, that's exactly right, And we both 406 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: run the risk of being called insurrectionists for saying that, 407 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: including by some former Conservatives. But the point you're making 408 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: is a crucial one. Any member of a previous political 409 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: generation in this country, and I dare say, Republican or Democrat, 410 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: who has plopped into this era that we're in, looking 411 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: at the power and and sort of nefarious exercise of 412 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: that power by government, especially during COVID, would be horrified 413 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: and so anyone who's intellected office, whether it's state legislature, 414 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: but especially in d C, needs to have the mindset, 415 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: especially towards the administrative state, of destroying it. And even 416 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: this very day, Lisa I said something like that and 417 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: someone said, you know, some smart guy said, well, that 418 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: doesn't sound very conservative, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, 419 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: we have so much work to do and in helping 420 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: Americans understand that this republic is very far gone. You know, 421 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: we we might be in the last chapter. I happen 422 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: to think we're not in the last chapter, but we're 423 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: at that pivot point and that that climax of the 424 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: plot where the good guys have to rise up otherwise 425 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: we're going to lose it. All right, quick commercial break 426 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: more with the press or the Herrhage Foundation. I mean, 427 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: if you really look at what's holding us together, it's 428 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: you know, things like the First Amendment, which they're destroying, 429 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: as we saw with the FBI working with big tech 430 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: to essentially skirt the first event to violate it. Uh, 431 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, Second Amendment. You know, these things that still 432 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: give individual liberty and still give power to the people, 433 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: which is why you know, obviously they're trying to destroy it. 434 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: But you know, to to your point, it's really you know, 435 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: we're kind of hanging on to a structural like a 436 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: structural skeleton is really what we've got left of holding 437 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: us together. Um. You know, how difficult do you think, 438 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, regardless if it's you know, McCarthy, whoever the 439 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: speaker is, it's gonna be very difficult to obviously keep 440 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: I think there's two twenty two in line, uh, to 441 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: to try to not even in line, you know, really 442 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: just to try to hear the interest of all of 443 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: its members and you know, kind of come together on stuff. 444 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: What do you think that's gonna look like? Well, it's 445 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: gonna go one of two ways. If the I'll give 446 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: you the worst case scenario first, although I think it's 447 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: a little more likely to go better. The worst case 448 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: scenario is is totally dysfunctional because the Democrats are so 449 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: good at driving wedging wedges into Republican caucuses and obviously 450 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: they've got the complicit nature of the media. Um. And 451 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: then of course Republicans can can do that to themselves too. 452 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: And if that's the case, then there will be very 453 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: little that happens. And you know, Biden's handlers end up 454 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: running a good reelection campaign and there's a real race. 455 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: And point four, I happen to think that I'm mildly 456 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: in this camp that there's a decent shot that if 457 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: the Republicans focus on some combination of of what I mentioned, 458 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: very selective, persistent oversight and investigations that lead the policy 459 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: reforms on the border, the FBI, for example, very important 460 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: focus on fiscal restraint, and then one or two other 461 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: big issues that are you know, they're not going to 462 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: pass the Senate. President is not going to sign them, 463 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: but you're giving the American people a sense of what 464 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: the left is obstructing with all of their nonsense. Then 465 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: I think that that looks successful. The open question is 466 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: is there enough courage in house leadership, in Senate leadership 467 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: on the Republican side to make that happen. That's where 468 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: the work that you do, that we do, a heritage 469 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: that regular Americans do is so important. I know that 470 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: many people are on the brink of despair, many people 471 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: are fatigued or on the brink of fatigue. I'm just 472 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: letting you know, and there's no hollow optimism here. I 473 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: promise you that now is the time to dig deep, 474 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: because if we can get this very slim, kind of 475 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: lobbily Republican majority in the House to do just some 476 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: fraction of that, then not only are we going to 477 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: make americans lives better, now, we're going to set the 478 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: foundation for which may be the last presidential electric electical. 479 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: We have to take the republic back. You look at 480 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: the mail and ballot stuff happening as well. I really 481 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: think that this is the last election that a Republican 482 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: could win. And you really have to have a flawless 483 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: candidate running a flawless campaign, making no mistakes, head down, 484 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: hard working, disciplined and executing or you know, executing on 485 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: on every level at full cylinders and and to the 486 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: point you know, of trying to get things done with 487 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: such a small majority in the House. You know, it 488 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: really does come down to leadership. And if you have 489 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: good leaders at works. I mean, you look at the 490 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: state of Florida, govern understand this one by twenty points. 491 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: Even looking at Texas, you abbot cleaned up these people 492 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: who have had the chance to lead with Republican you 493 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: know politics, Republican UH policy positions can win the challenges 494 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: in the House and the Senate. We have leaders but 495 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: they're not being the one. They're not the ones that 496 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: are being trusted with power. You know, we do have 497 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: transformational people. You know in the House, you've got people 498 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: like Chip war or even you know Thomas Massey who 499 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: really proved himself during COVID to be a leader, you know, 500 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: Rampaul in the Senate. We we've got guys that can 501 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: do it. It's just, you know, they're not the ones 502 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: being trusted with power is the problem. That's the problem. 503 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, a Heritage I'm so grateful 504 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: we have a five O one C four, a campaign 505 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: arm Heritage Action that's very active in all of these debates. 506 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: And and I guess the one bit of of optimism 507 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: that I would inject into your your sober and accurate 508 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: diagnosis is as I look at the ranks of state 509 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: legislators on the conservative side, as I look at the 510 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: new Conservative school board members, our movement is building a 511 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: bench that's going to fill the potentially fill the ranks 512 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: of members of the House and Senate. I think about j. 513 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: D Vance coming into the Senate. We need to get 514 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: to the point and soon where we're we don't even 515 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: have time to talk about the long list of people 516 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: who are like j D and my good Friendship Roy 517 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: and Thomas Massey. But I believe that is going to 518 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: be that that that pivot cycle, not just one where 519 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: the right defeats the left, but one where as evidence 520 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: over the speaker battle the settle some scores internally and 521 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: realizes what time it does in America, and and the 522 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: time that it is is that it's it's not time 523 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: to be a moderate establishment Republican. It's time to go 524 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: to Congress and govern on behalf of your people in 525 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: their own freedoms upset with the fight that's happening now, 526 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: you know. One, in addition to being process, it's also 527 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: sort of a battle over the Republican party. And then secondly, 528 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: we're not in status quo times anymore, you know, I 529 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: mean we're in a completely different period of American history 530 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: where you know, as as we're talking, will the republic 531 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: continue to stand? I mean, this isn't you know, This 532 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: isn't ten years ago where you could get away with 533 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: the status quo figure. I mean, this is a time 534 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: where we're hanging on by a thread. And so if 535 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: there was ever a time to have these fights to 536 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: to to battle, it out to you know, be strong, 537 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: to be messy. You know, now is the time because 538 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: we don't have any time left. It's you know, sadly, 539 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: it's like completely. I mean, I'm a natural optimist. I 540 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: think that comes from my face. Um as I tell people, 541 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: I'll hopefully when in the next life, but this life 542 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: seems to be a little bit in question. On my 543 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: most optimistic days, I say we've got two election cycles 544 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: to take the country back. I think more and more 545 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: it might just be that very next one. And and 546 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: to your point, the status quo is terrible for free people. 547 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: And think about you. You've referenced COVID a couple of times. 548 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: The United States of America just deferring, even under a 549 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: friendly administration. I dare say to the World Health Organization 550 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: hopefully as conservative as we realize most institutions in this 551 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: country and around the world have been co opted by 552 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: the left. And we have to have the attitude of 553 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: building our own, which includes rebuilding our own movement in 554 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. I more than think I know that 555 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: this is going on. The question is will it Will 556 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: it succeed quickly enough for it to bear fruit to 557 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: save the Republican that's an awakening moment for me. I 558 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: think I sort of previously kind of took advantag edge 559 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: of the fact we're a free nation and and sort 560 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: of thinking that we're always going to be free and 561 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: somehow we're immune to tyranny, and then COVID really just 562 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: awakened me in the sense of we're not you know, 563 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: we are immune. We're not immune, and uh, you know, 564 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: so that's why all these fights, even small ones, are important, 565 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: and so you know, it's it's it was just an 566 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: awakening for me, and I think for a lot of people, 567 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: I hope as well. Uh, you know, Kevin, that's been 568 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: a really interesting conversation. Is there anything I'm missing that 569 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: you want to convey to the audience in the conversation 570 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: that we've had, anything important that you think people should 571 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: know as we you know, look ahead here in terms 572 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: of timeline and taking the republic back, Yes, what the 573 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: House Republicans do this spring this year is really important. 574 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: It really is. But I would argue that even more 575 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: important than that will be the handful of legislative sessions 576 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: and states that are really influential. So the legislative agendas 577 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: in Georgia and Florida in Texas other places I'm not 578 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: thinking of right now, with with good legislators and governor, 579 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: if those are successful, that's the blueprint for re establishing 580 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: common sense and freedom in the country. And so I 581 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: would just encourage people to pay as much attention to 582 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: those and be as involved in those as they are 583 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: in federal politics. What's going on in d C in 584 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: the last several days has been important. It isn't that 585 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: it's a side show. It's just that we're better off 586 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: when we're making that kind of policy progress in our 587 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: state capitals, because that's going to become the policy agenda 588 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: for the next time if we get it next time. 589 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: For significant conservative control of the DC and in your 590 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: state and local politics matters as much, if not probably 591 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: more than you know some of these conversations we're having 592 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: on the federal level. And I've got not given up 593 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: hope either. I still think we can turn the ship around. 594 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: It's just we need to as your point, we need 595 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: to be aware of what time it is and what's 596 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: going on in the country. Kevin Roberts, appreciate your voice, 597 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: Appreciate the work you're doing. Thank you for fighting for freedom, 598 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: and thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate 599 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: your time, sir, my pleasure. We'll keep fighting. Take care 600 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: m h. So that was Kevin Roberts, president of the 601 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation, which with what I think is an important 602 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: conversation about the future of the country, how we take 603 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: power back from the government. I hope you enjoyed it. 604 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: I want to thank you at home for listening. I 605 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: want to thank John Castio, my producer, for putting the 606 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: show together every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen 607 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: throughout the week. Feel free to leave us to review, 608 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: leave us a rating on Apple Podcast. Always enjoy reading 609 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: those Until next time.