WEBVTT - What If Finding Community Wasn't So Hard? 0:00:14.956 --> 0:00:15.396 Pushkin. 0:00:30.596 --> 0:00:32.596 Why are so many of the people that I meet 0:00:32.876 --> 0:00:36.476 all across America and increasing across the world, why are 0:00:36.476 --> 0:00:40.036 they so unhappy? Why do they feel that sense of 0:00:40.076 --> 0:00:43.316 emptiness that so many people describe. So many people would say, 0:00:43.316 --> 0:00:45.916 I guess this is just the way life is. I 0:00:45.956 --> 0:00:48.476 guess it's like everyone's feeling this way. It's that's just life. 0:00:48.716 --> 0:00:51.196 And I refuse to believe that because I don't think 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:53.716 that we are consigned to live a life of emptiness 0:00:53.836 --> 0:00:56.796 where we're just unhappy, because that life is hard and 0:00:56.836 --> 0:00:59.836 as a result unhappy. Life can be hard, and life 0:00:59.876 --> 0:01:03.076 often is hard, but that doesn't mean that it has 0:01:03.116 --> 0:01:04.036 to be unfulfilling. 0:01:05.396 --> 0:01:09.036 That's doctor Vivek Morphy, he served as the US Surgeon 0:01:09.276 --> 0:01:13.476 General under both President Obama and President Biden. This is 0:01:13.556 --> 0:01:16.556 the vague second time on the show. The first time 0:01:16.596 --> 0:01:19.716 he joined us, we explored the science of loneliness and 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:21.956 how bad it can be for our long term health, 0:01:22.636 --> 0:01:25.236 but we didn't get to talk about how to actually 0:01:25.316 --> 0:01:29.716 build stronger, more meaningful connections in our lives. I wanted 0:01:29.716 --> 0:01:32.516 to hear Vivgu's advice on this topic because when I 0:01:32.556 --> 0:01:36.996 hear that it's important to quote create community I feel intimidated, 0:01:37.596 --> 0:01:40.236 like where do I start? Should I be signing up 0:01:40.276 --> 0:01:42.596 for a bunch of clubs or striking up small talk 0:01:42.636 --> 0:01:46.276 with strangers? Maybe you can relate, but I'm feeling really 0:01:46.356 --> 0:01:49.196 tired right now, and the idea of adding more items 0:01:49.236 --> 0:01:53.036 to my to do list is exhausting. But as you'll 0:01:53.036 --> 0:01:56.356 hear in this conversation, it turns out that building stronger 0:01:56.396 --> 0:02:01.716 connection isn't necessarily about doing more. It's about being intentional 0:02:01.756 --> 0:02:04.556 about the way we interact with the people and communities 0:02:04.556 --> 0:02:08.676 we already have in our lives. I left this conversation 0:02:08.756 --> 0:02:11.996 with a far more expansive understanding of what connection can 0:02:12.036 --> 0:02:15.516 look like in my life, and I hope you will too. 0:02:18.116 --> 0:02:21.916 I'm Maya Shunker, a scientist who studies human behavior, and 0:02:21.996 --> 0:02:24.676 this is a slight change of plans, a show about 0:02:24.756 --> 0:02:27.196 who we are and who we become in the face 0:02:27.316 --> 0:02:32.836 of a big change. 0:02:37.316 --> 0:02:41.756 In its deepest sense, community is a place where we 0:02:41.836 --> 0:02:45.636 know each other, where we help each other, and where 0:02:45.636 --> 0:02:50.036 we find purpose in contributing to each other's lives. That's 0:02:50.076 --> 0:02:52.916 what makes a real community. Okay, It's what my father 0:02:52.996 --> 0:02:54.876 had when he was in a small village in India 0:02:55.116 --> 0:02:59.156 growing up. He was really poor. He didn't and when 0:02:59.196 --> 0:03:00.836 I say poor, I mean there are levels of poor. 0:03:01.236 --> 0:03:03.396 He was really really poor. I mean they didn't have 0:03:03.516 --> 0:03:06.116 enough money to buy slippers or shoes. So the first 0:03:06.156 --> 0:03:08.036 time he wore something on his feet was when he 0:03:08.076 --> 0:03:10.436 was fifteen, and he got because he wasn't used to it. 0:03:11.076 --> 0:03:13.156 They didn't have enough food around the table most nights, 0:03:13.156 --> 0:03:15.756 so they just kept pouring more water, you know, to 0:03:15.876 --> 0:03:18.076 dilute the dolls so there would be enough to fill, 0:03:18.396 --> 0:03:21.876 you know, each child's bowl. Times were tough. But interestingly, 0:03:21.916 --> 0:03:25.116 he told me he never felt lonely until he left 0:03:25.116 --> 0:03:29.236 his village. That even though they were poor materially, they 0:03:29.236 --> 0:03:33.516 were rich in community, and people knew each other there. 0:03:33.596 --> 0:03:37.596 They actually looked out for each other. They would invite 0:03:37.636 --> 0:03:39.916 someone in just to come talk if they were, you know, 0:03:40.076 --> 0:03:42.396 hanging out outside the house or if they were walking 0:03:42.396 --> 0:03:44.876 down the street. They also helped each other. When my 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:48.436 father's mother died when he was ten from tuberculosis, the 0:03:48.436 --> 0:03:51.276 whole village stepped in and became surrogate parents to him 0:03:51.276 --> 0:03:54.956 and his five siblings. That is what community really is now. 0:03:55.836 --> 0:03:57.876 That is a It can feel like a lofty goal, 0:03:57.916 --> 0:04:00.756 and especially if you don't have any sense of community 0:04:00.756 --> 0:04:02.636 of life right now. Yeah, it can feel like a 0:04:02.676 --> 0:04:05.396 big distance to go, but here's what I would say. 0:04:05.796 --> 0:04:09.116 The path to building community is made up of small steps. 0:04:09.756 --> 0:04:12.596 It's not like you need to completely quit your job, 0:04:12.716 --> 0:04:16.156 move to a different city, like transform everything. You can 0:04:16.236 --> 0:04:19.636 start very small, right. So, one of the things is 0:04:19.676 --> 0:04:22.516 a few things I often suggest that people do, just 0:04:22.556 --> 0:04:25.436 at a very baseline level, is to spend five minutes 0:04:25.436 --> 0:04:27.596 a day reaching out to someone you care about. That 0:04:27.636 --> 0:04:30.076 could be a video call, it could be visiting them 0:04:30.076 --> 0:04:32.836 in person, it could be a phone call, whatever it is, 0:04:32.876 --> 0:04:37.156 five minutes. The second thing is to make sure you're 0:04:37.196 --> 0:04:40.036 doing one thing each day to help someone. Doesn't have 0:04:40.076 --> 0:04:42.396 to be someone you know. It could be somebody in 0:04:42.436 --> 0:04:46.036 your neighborhood, in your community, in your workplace, and it 0:04:46.076 --> 0:04:50.076 can be something small. And the third thing is to 0:04:50.116 --> 0:04:52.676 actually make sure that when you are people with people, 0:04:52.756 --> 0:04:55.396 that you are present right because a lot of times 0:04:55.396 --> 0:04:57.276 what happens, and I have been guilty of this on 0:04:57.476 --> 0:05:01.276 countless occasions, You're catching up with somebody and then all 0:05:01.276 --> 0:05:03.716 of a sudden, your hand dips into your pocket, your 0:05:03.756 --> 0:05:06.836 phone comes out, you're refreshing your inbox. If you're me. 0:05:06.916 --> 0:05:09.916 You're checking the scores on ESPN or like you know, 0:05:09.956 --> 0:05:12.436 you're checking in news, and you don't have to do 0:05:12.476 --> 0:05:14.716 these things, but we it's just like a compulsion. We 0:05:14.756 --> 0:05:17.516 just do them, of course, right, and our attention frazzles. 0:05:17.916 --> 0:05:20.236 But I suspect you and I have both been in 0:05:20.316 --> 0:05:23.676 conversation with people in one case where we knew they were. 0:05:23.516 --> 0:05:27.756 Distracted, absolutely yeah, and in another case when they were 0:05:27.756 --> 0:05:31.476 fully focused on us, when they were looking into our eyes, 0:05:31.676 --> 0:05:34.196 really listening to what we were saying, responding to that, 0:05:35.476 --> 0:05:39.556 and that feels incredible. Yes, there's one last thing I'll say, 0:05:39.596 --> 0:05:41.436 which is that something we realize. I think a lot 0:05:41.476 --> 0:05:45.116 of us during the pandemic, especially in those first few 0:05:45.116 --> 0:05:47.236 months of the pandemic, when people weren't seeing each other 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:49.756 very much, but we realized that it's not just the 0:05:49.796 --> 0:05:52.676 people we know whose presence gives us comfort, it's actually 0:05:52.676 --> 0:05:55.116 people we don't know. People would tell me how they 0:05:55.116 --> 0:05:57.916 didn't realize how much how nice it was actually just 0:05:57.956 --> 0:06:00.356 to be in a coffee shop for other people, Yes, 0:06:00.676 --> 0:06:03.636 to be walking down the street and see other people, yes. 0:06:04.116 --> 0:06:07.236 And see their facial expressions like not have mass on exactly, 0:06:07.316 --> 0:06:08.276 which includes so much. 0:06:08.436 --> 0:06:10.956 Yeah, I would say at a very basic level, if 0:06:10.956 --> 0:06:14.676 you're finding yourself, you know, unable to reach out and 0:06:14.716 --> 0:06:18.396 call someone for whatever reason, that even just being around 0:06:18.436 --> 0:06:21.516 other people, like leaving your home and going to the 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:25.836 grocery store, going to a local event or talk you know, 0:06:25.836 --> 0:06:28.836 at your local library or at your community center, seeing 0:06:28.876 --> 0:06:31.276 a load to your neighbor, any of these things, like 0:06:31.396 --> 0:06:34.676 just being around other people, can be very powerful. 0:06:35.276 --> 0:06:40.036 I'm happy you brought that up because because of the 0:06:40.036 --> 0:06:44.756 moment we're in right now, where people are feeling just 0:06:44.876 --> 0:06:52.036 so utterly exhausted and depleted, and because socializing does take effort, 0:06:52.316 --> 0:06:55.196 it can feel very draining for a person who feels 0:06:55.196 --> 0:06:58.036 like they're lacking connection on a Friday night after a 0:06:58.116 --> 0:07:01.036 very challenging work week, and then they you know, every 0:07:01.036 --> 0:07:03.516 time they look at the news they see something horrific happening. 0:07:04.276 --> 0:07:07.156 To say, Okay, yes, I'm going to make an effort 0:07:07.196 --> 0:07:09.516 to reach out to a friend and have a you know, 0:07:09.556 --> 0:07:12.236 one on one dinner, something that just feels more taxing, 0:07:12.316 --> 0:07:14.916 especially for people who might lean a little bit more introverted. 0:07:15.636 --> 0:07:19.316 What I like about your advice is that in those moments, okay, yeah, 0:07:19.396 --> 0:07:22.876 maybe you don't do the dinner thing. But maybe you 0:07:22.956 --> 0:07:25.676 walk to your downtown area and you just kind of 0:07:25.676 --> 0:07:28.676 people watch, or maybe you go to a cafe, or 0:07:28.756 --> 0:07:32.676 maybe you sit down for dinner even by yourself, but 0:07:32.756 --> 0:07:35.516 you're in the presence of other people. And I do 0:07:35.596 --> 0:07:38.956 find that presence very uplifting. I remember during the pandemic, 0:07:38.996 --> 0:07:41.196 when again we had to be socially isolated, I would 0:07:41.236 --> 0:07:46.476 walk by myself to our downtown farmer's market and I 0:07:46.516 --> 0:07:49.716 would just sit and just watch people come and go, 0:07:49.996 --> 0:07:52.956 and there is sometimes street musicians and whatnot, and I 0:07:52.996 --> 0:07:56.796 would feel some uplift, Like you said, even though I 0:07:56.876 --> 0:08:00.556 wasn't creating any sort of long lasting, meaningful connection with 0:08:00.636 --> 0:08:01.316 other humans. 0:08:01.716 --> 0:08:04.556 It was just so comforting to be with others. 0:08:05.876 --> 0:08:09.676 It is absolutely it nourishes us at a very deep level. 0:08:10.076 --> 0:08:14.956 And it's It's also why when you're walking on the street, 0:08:15.356 --> 0:08:17.076 even if you just picked a couple of people and 0:08:17.116 --> 0:08:18.836 smiled at them as you're workingnize it. You don't have 0:08:18.916 --> 0:08:22.236 to say a word. Yeah, it is proven to make 0:08:22.316 --> 0:08:23.756 you and the other person feel better. 0:08:23.836 --> 0:08:25.636 Yeah, but what all when they don't smile back, Bud, 0:08:26.076 --> 0:08:29.156 Why are we not a little bit kinder towards each other, 0:08:29.236 --> 0:08:31.316 Like well, I'll get into an elevator and I'm like, hey, 0:08:31.356 --> 0:08:34.556 how's it going, And there's just really no response at all, 0:08:34.636 --> 0:08:36.636 And sometimes I just want to give up. And so 0:08:36.716 --> 0:08:39.276 what do I do when I don't get the high 0:08:39.356 --> 0:08:39.996 end response? 0:08:40.116 --> 0:08:41.716 And then I feel a little bit of that rejection. 0:08:42.476 --> 0:08:44.356 So that's a good question, and I know it's your 0:08:44.356 --> 0:08:48.276 topic because I felt the same thing, and I think 0:08:48.316 --> 0:08:50.516 that it for me. What I've tried to do is 0:08:50.556 --> 0:08:54.556 to understand the moment why people usually don't respond. It's 0:08:54.556 --> 0:08:57.556 not usually because they're rejecting you, per se. Right, Like 0:08:57.716 --> 0:08:59.876 if ten people came into the same thing, their response 0:08:59.916 --> 0:09:02.956 may be the same. But most people there their social 0:09:03.036 --> 0:09:06.716 muscle has become so weak over time that it's hard 0:09:06.716 --> 0:09:09.116 for them to activate it. You know right away. There 0:09:08.956 --> 0:09:10.996 are people are just donned that you said below. 0:09:11.676 --> 0:09:15.356 Absolutely it seems like I lit up a firework or 0:09:15.396 --> 0:09:18.596 something in front of their face. They really do. There's 0:09:18.636 --> 0:09:22.476 almost an element of fear and like true surprise. They 0:09:22.556 --> 0:09:24.756 almost jump a little bit. That's right, because it's so 0:09:24.876 --> 0:09:25.476 not the norm. 0:09:25.676 --> 0:09:28.276 That's exactly right. So if you recognize that most people's 0:09:28.356 --> 0:09:31.516 lack of response is usually surprise or fear. Yeah, or 0:09:31.556 --> 0:09:34.916 like some unfamiliarity for me that I was making me 0:09:34.956 --> 0:09:36.956 feel better because actually, then it makes me realize, am 0:09:36.956 --> 0:09:39.436 my saying hello to them is actually helpful because it's 0:09:39.476 --> 0:09:41.516 over time and I help you more because it more 0:09:41.636 --> 0:09:43.636 like Look, I have had this experience also as somebody 0:09:43.676 --> 0:09:46.116 said hello, and I was so surprised I couldn't get 0:09:46.156 --> 0:09:49.156 out a hello before they actually exited the setting right 0:09:49.276 --> 0:09:51.396 or they were walking past me and they already passed, 0:09:51.396 --> 0:09:54.196 but I was like, oh, hello, yeah, they're gone, right, 0:09:55.716 --> 0:09:58.236 But it made me feel good. Number one that they 0:09:58.276 --> 0:10:00.516 said hello, and it made me more attentive about saying 0:10:00.516 --> 0:10:02.996 hello the next time, like somebody actually said hello to me. 0:10:03.396 --> 0:10:06.516 All this just to say that I find recognizing that 0:10:06.596 --> 0:10:10.076 like helps me feel remember that the reject it's not 0:10:10.116 --> 0:10:12.556 sort of like personal rejection director to me. And what 0:10:12.596 --> 0:10:14.436 I'm doing when I do that is not only helping 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:17.796 myself feel good, but I'm putting just more social energy 0:10:17.796 --> 0:10:20.436 out into the world. And this is how norms change 0:10:21.036 --> 0:10:25.036 is when people start behaving differently in larger and larger numbers, 0:10:25.396 --> 0:10:28.436 and when that behavior becomes acceptable. And I think if 0:10:28.476 --> 0:10:31.276 we can make it more and more of a norm 0:10:31.796 --> 0:10:35.876 that we smile at people when we see them, and 0:10:36.356 --> 0:10:38.516 you could choose the elevator could be your work spot, 0:10:38.596 --> 0:10:40.636 you know, for this experiment, and you can just say, Okay, 0:10:40.916 --> 0:10:43.796 whenever I'm in an elevator, I'm going to smile at people. 0:10:44.436 --> 0:10:46.956 And that's just it. But that can make a really 0:10:46.996 --> 0:10:49.196 big difference again in how you feel. 0:10:49.796 --> 0:10:50.876 It's just hard in the moment. 0:10:51.276 --> 0:10:53.356 But then I also think maybe being a little bit 0:10:53.356 --> 0:10:55.596 more empathetic too, because what if I have actually just 0:10:55.716 --> 0:11:00.636 encountered someone on a really hard day that they're having 0:11:01.116 --> 0:11:04.156 and so yes, I didn't get anything in return, but 0:11:04.236 --> 0:11:06.716 maybe they got a good gift for me whishes to 0:11:06.756 --> 0:11:07.476 be smile of at. 0:11:07.476 --> 0:11:10.116 Absolutely, so that is helpful. Can we talk about energy 0:11:10.196 --> 0:11:11.756 for a second, Yeah, because you just talked about the 0:11:11.796 --> 0:11:13.596 fact that a lot of people are feeling really drained 0:11:13.916 --> 0:11:15.596 right now, and then when you're drained, it's hard to 0:11:15.596 --> 0:11:17.996 summon the energy to be social correct. So I think 0:11:17.996 --> 0:11:19.716 this is a real phenomenon. So let's just talk for 0:11:19.716 --> 0:11:23.396 a moment about this energy drain thing, because I think 0:11:23.436 --> 0:11:27.836 about our emotional wellbeing almost like a fuel tank, right, 0:11:28.356 --> 0:11:32.636 and there are things that feed that tank that increase fuel, 0:11:32.636 --> 0:11:36.276 if you will. Social connection is one of them. Gratitude 0:11:36.956 --> 0:11:41.196 is another. But also sleep, you know, helps tremendously, and 0:11:41.236 --> 0:11:43.276 a lot of us don't get good quality or quantity 0:11:43.316 --> 0:11:45.836 of sleep because our devices are interrupting our sleep. We 0:11:45.876 --> 0:11:47.516 get up and we'll drink some water, and then we're 0:11:47.596 --> 0:11:49.636 checking our email, et cetera. But they are all of 0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:52.956 these things that can feed into, like our emotional wellbeing. 0:11:53.756 --> 0:11:58.396 But there are also things that drain our emotional tank, right, 0:11:58.636 --> 0:12:04.476 and those include negative people, negative news, and for many people, 0:12:04.676 --> 0:12:07.316 their experience of social media, which is often negative, right, 0:12:07.996 --> 0:12:11.276 not for everyone dimensions to it, but when your experience 0:12:11.316 --> 0:12:14.316 of social media is that you're primarily seeing people ranting 0:12:14.356 --> 0:12:17.036 about things, treating each other poorly, and negative news posted. 0:12:18.396 --> 0:12:22.156 These three things. So social media, the news, and negative 0:12:22.156 --> 0:12:25.756 people will drain you, right. And so I think if 0:12:25.756 --> 0:12:26.876 we want or. 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:30.396 Other people's highlight reels, which can also drain you absolutely, 0:12:30.396 --> 0:12:32.436 because then you're thinking, oh my god, am I the 0:12:32.436 --> 0:12:35.556 only one suffering here? Why are they living the best 0:12:35.556 --> 0:12:36.836 life ever in Spain? 0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:37.876 And here I am. 0:12:37.876 --> 0:12:43.956 Exactly yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And that constant culture 0:12:43.996 --> 0:12:48.036 of comparison, which is dramatically accelerated online, Yes, I can 0:12:48.116 --> 0:12:50.756 drain us too. So I think as we think about 0:12:50.796 --> 0:12:54.876 how to improve our emotional fuel tank and fill it up, 0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:57.636 we have to plug the holes while we're also trying 0:12:57.636 --> 0:13:00.196 to fill the tank. And so like, for I was 0:13:00.236 --> 0:13:01.836 just telling in my own life what that's looked like. 0:13:02.676 --> 0:13:05.036 That's like number one, I'm just a lot more intentional 0:13:05.156 --> 0:13:09.036 about my interactions engagement with people. So if somebody is 0:13:09.916 --> 0:13:13.836 really negative, or if they're like constantly like complaining about the 0:13:13.876 --> 0:13:17.236 world and dragging me down, et cetera, just have increasingly 0:13:17.356 --> 0:13:20.636 chosen not to engage in those interactions, you know, and 0:13:20.676 --> 0:13:22.676 to try to step away. Now easier said than done. 0:13:22.676 --> 0:13:24.916 What if that person is a family member who you 0:13:24.956 --> 0:13:26.076 live with, exactly. 0:13:25.796 --> 0:13:27.436 You're a coworker that you have to work on a 0:13:27.436 --> 0:13:29.676 project with, right, what can you do in that case? 0:13:29.836 --> 0:13:33.956 Viig to tame their power over your mind and your 0:13:33.996 --> 0:13:34.476 well being? 0:13:35.636 --> 0:13:40.756 Yeah. So sometimes, look, if it's a case where you 0:13:40.796 --> 0:13:43.916 cannot reduce the amount of time and exposure that you 0:13:43.916 --> 0:13:47.036 have to the person, sometimes you need to actually have 0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:50.316 an honest conversation. And it doesn't have to be like, hey, 0:13:50.396 --> 0:13:52.996 you're making me feel horrible, stop it, right, although sometimes 0:13:53.076 --> 0:13:55.396 that you have to be that blunt, but sometimes it 0:13:55.436 --> 0:13:57.276 can just be something as simple as like, let's just 0:13:57.276 --> 0:13:59.836 say that they're bringing up politics all the time and 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:01.516 it makes you feel just worse about the world and 0:14:01.516 --> 0:14:03.076 think about stuff that you don't want to think about. 0:14:03.796 --> 0:14:06.316 You just say them, hey, look, I love working with you, 0:14:06.356 --> 0:14:08.836 but I just really don't enjoy talking about politics. Could 0:14:08.836 --> 0:14:11.396 we just your clear politics? We just talk about other stuff. 0:14:11.756 --> 0:14:14.116 I'd love to talk about your family, about work, about 0:14:14.156 --> 0:14:15.956 your recreation, anything else, but I just don't like that 0:14:15.996 --> 0:14:19.156 about politics. And most people will respect that, you know, 0:14:19.236 --> 0:14:22.276 but it requires us to sometimes be a little bit direct. 0:14:23.476 --> 0:14:25.916 The other thing that I have done when it comes 0:14:25.956 --> 0:14:31.356 to news is I've largely like reduced my consumption of 0:14:31.396 --> 0:14:34.636 news by something like ninety five and ninety nine percent, right, 0:14:34.716 --> 0:14:40.156 So I don't watch the news on TV anymore. I 0:14:40.236 --> 0:14:43.876 cancel my TV subscription some years ago. I generally don't 0:14:43.916 --> 0:14:48.796 read most news stories. I'll sometimes see I'll see digests 0:14:48.836 --> 0:14:50.916 of headlines, so I have a sense of what's happening 0:14:51.156 --> 0:14:53.516 in the world and can dive deeper. I certainly read 0:14:53.596 --> 0:14:57.516 articles that trusted friends may send me, or others or 0:14:57.556 --> 0:14:59.996 people I work with, because I know that they're filtering 0:15:00.076 --> 0:15:03.036 it for the kind of content that will be useful 0:15:03.076 --> 0:15:05.916 and important to me, and you can't escape all of it, 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:07.436 by the way, like you're going to see something, to 0:15:07.476 --> 0:15:09.636 be walking down an airport, you're going to see like new 0:15:09.676 --> 0:15:12.876 news on the TV screen, Like you're going to see stuff. 0:15:12.956 --> 0:15:16.276 And that's fine, but we can make choices to dramatically 0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:18.276 reduce our consumption of news. And look, I hate to 0:15:18.316 --> 0:15:21.556 say it, but the news is trended negative over to 0:15:21.596 --> 0:15:25.916 the last few decades. There are measurably more negative headlines. 0:15:26.236 --> 0:15:30.836 We know that fear and anxiety are very reliable ways 0:15:30.876 --> 0:15:33.276 to get people to pay attention, and the media industry 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:34.076 knows that too. 0:15:34.396 --> 0:15:35.636 So they're praying on that. 0:15:35.956 --> 0:15:38.396 Yeah, so if you stoke fear and anxiety, people are 0:15:38.436 --> 0:15:41.516 more likely to watch to click and that generates revenue. 0:15:41.956 --> 0:15:45.556 And so the business model is largely, unfortunately steeped in 0:15:45.836 --> 0:15:50.156 stoking our fear and anxiety. So again, it's not that 0:15:50.196 --> 0:15:54.156 all news is bad, but it's that there's it's almost 0:15:54.156 --> 0:15:56.636 like if I were to give you a container of 0:15:56.716 --> 0:16:00.996 yogurt and I told you, look, this yogurt has protein 0:16:01.076 --> 0:16:04.076 in it. It's got some very vitamins and minerals in it. 0:16:04.716 --> 0:16:08.716 But by the way, it's spoiled. Actually, you'd be like, look, 0:16:08.796 --> 0:16:11.356 I know there's good stuff in there, but I don't 0:16:11.356 --> 0:16:13.396 know how to separate the good from the bad easily. 0:16:13.596 --> 0:16:15.196 So I'm going to have to just put it aside. 0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:17.916 And I find myself having to do that not only 0:16:17.996 --> 0:16:21.236 within news but also then finally with social media. But 0:16:21.276 --> 0:16:23.196 for me, and this is true for me, may I'll 0:16:23.236 --> 0:16:26.996 be true for everyone. It was like for every one 0:16:27.076 --> 0:16:31.076 good thing I was encountering, there were like twenty things 0:16:31.076 --> 0:16:33.356 that were dragging me down. Yeah, And I was like, 0:16:33.436 --> 0:16:36.556 this is like not a good do the next benefit 0:16:37.916 --> 0:16:40.516 kids say? So I was like, you know, I just 0:16:41.116 --> 0:16:42.636 this is not worth it. So I pull back on it, 0:16:42.636 --> 0:16:45.276 and I will tell you. I was like, wow, I 0:16:45.516 --> 0:16:48.476 normally feel better. I actually have more time because I 0:16:48.516 --> 0:16:50.396 was at we spend more time on social media than 0:16:50.436 --> 0:16:53.796 we think we do. Adolescents, by the way, I spend 0:16:53.796 --> 0:16:55.836 four point eight hours a day on social media alone, 0:16:55.876 --> 0:16:59.676 not screens, just social media. So then I was like, wow, 0:16:59.756 --> 0:17:02.916 I actually can read a bit because I wasn't reading much. 0:17:03.196 --> 0:17:05.716 I can be more present with family, all of these things. 0:17:05.796 --> 0:17:07.956 So I mentioned all this just to say that in 0:17:07.996 --> 0:17:11.636 our own way, many of us are feeling drained, and 0:17:11.676 --> 0:17:13.236 we not only need to think about how to fill 0:17:13.276 --> 0:17:16.596 our tank more with things like social connection, activities that 0:17:16.636 --> 0:17:21.036 bring us joy, with moments of gratitude and moments of peace, 0:17:21.036 --> 0:17:23.676 but we also need to plug these holes because there's 0:17:23.676 --> 0:17:26.436 a lot that's draining our energy right now. And I 0:17:26.636 --> 0:17:29.036 just worry that if everyone is drained all the time, 0:17:29.156 --> 0:17:30.836 how are we going to get together and do the 0:17:30.876 --> 0:17:32.556 things they need to be done in the world. But 0:17:32.596 --> 0:17:35.316 also how are we going to enjoy our lives, build friendship, 0:17:35.916 --> 0:17:36.956 be a part of community. 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:38.436 Yeah. 0:17:38.796 --> 0:17:41.916 I understand the reduction in social media use almost being 0:17:42.316 --> 0:17:46.916 uncontroversial when it comes to such a high reduction in 0:17:47.796 --> 0:17:52.196 news consumption. How do you square that with this noble 0:17:52.276 --> 0:17:56.316 goal of being an educated, informed citizen of the world 0:17:56.436 --> 0:17:58.876 who stays on top of stuff. Because I can see 0:17:58.876 --> 0:18:03.476 that being that filling some people with discomfort, like, Oh, 0:18:02.636 --> 0:18:06.236 if I back away from the news, does that mean 0:18:06.356 --> 0:18:09.636 that I've stopped caring about other people? Does that mean 0:18:09.676 --> 0:18:12.116 that I'm burying my head in the sand doing an 0:18:12.116 --> 0:18:14.836 ostrich situation when the world's on fire? Will that make 0:18:14.916 --> 0:18:19.556 me feel less inclined to be socially active, to engage 0:18:19.556 --> 0:18:23.156 in public service like help me and other people square that. 0:18:23.396 --> 0:18:25.076 So this is and this is what we talk about 0:18:25.116 --> 0:18:27.716 in my family all the time because my wife, Alice 0:18:27.836 --> 0:18:32.196 is she's an extraordinary advocate and somebody who's just so 0:18:32.956 --> 0:18:36.676 her DNA is to help people and to respond when 0:18:36.716 --> 0:18:39.156 there's a need. And so she's also she and I 0:18:39.276 --> 0:18:42.076 both have been thinking about how do we help be 0:18:42.116 --> 0:18:44.356 a positive force in the world where at a time 0:18:44.356 --> 0:18:47.396 where a lot of difficult and painful things are happening. 0:18:48.276 --> 0:18:51.796 So I don't think that reducing news consumption has to 0:18:51.836 --> 0:18:54.756 be consistent with ignoring what's happening in the world or 0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:58.716 being uneducated. Okay, I think instead what is happening right 0:18:58.796 --> 0:19:01.276 now is a pendulum swung so far in one end 0:19:01.276 --> 0:19:04.676 that we're not reading a news story about a situation. 0:19:05.316 --> 0:19:08.556 We're reading it ten times, written by ten ten different ways, 0:19:08.596 --> 0:19:13.316 by ten different outlets. And that has its own toll, 0:19:13.716 --> 0:19:16.636 because if you're reading ten negative articles instead of one 0:19:16.716 --> 0:19:20.876 concise article, that's your time, that's also your energy that 0:19:20.916 --> 0:19:23.636 you're expending. Most of us are not at all in 0:19:23.756 --> 0:19:27.996 danger of being uninformed about what major events that are 0:19:27.996 --> 0:19:30.996 happening in the world. We could reduce our news consumption 0:19:31.116 --> 0:19:34.796 by eighty ninety percent and still largely get the big 0:19:34.836 --> 0:19:37.516 events that are happening. But finally, I'll just say, in 0:19:37.596 --> 0:19:40.716 terms of being a part of positive change, being an 0:19:40.756 --> 0:19:44.036 advocate fighting for people who might be hurting right now, 0:19:44.916 --> 0:19:47.476 we need to do that, There's no question, And I 0:19:47.476 --> 0:19:49.796 would actually say we are better poised to do that 0:19:49.836 --> 0:19:52.356 when we have more energy in our tank and more 0:19:52.436 --> 0:19:54.956 time on our hands, and a lot of our time 0:19:54.996 --> 0:19:59.036 and energy is being scrolled away and siphoned away by 0:19:59.036 --> 0:20:01.876 the negative news that we are consuming, the time we're 0:20:01.916 --> 0:20:04.636 spending doing that, and the time we're spending on social media. 0:20:04.636 --> 0:20:07.876 I would love to see people dramatically reduce their consumption 0:20:07.956 --> 0:20:12.196 of news and social media and dramatically increase their engagement 0:20:12.196 --> 0:20:15.836 in their real world, whether it's meeting with their legislators 0:20:15.836 --> 0:20:18.556 about issues of matter, whether it's protesting, whether it's going 0:20:18.596 --> 0:20:21.236 to community meetings and talking about how is a community 0:20:21.236 --> 0:20:23.196 we can get together and help people who are struggling 0:20:23.236 --> 0:20:26.836 and suffering them That real world advocacy matters, But it's 0:20:26.916 --> 0:20:27.836 often at odds. 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:29.916 Yeah, you can't do that when your tank is empty. 0:20:30.196 --> 0:20:33.156 It's interesting, Yeah, I think when we have a really visceral, 0:20:33.196 --> 0:20:35.956 emotional negative reaction to a news article, and we find 0:20:35.956 --> 0:20:38.476 ourselves spiraling in our bedrooms. It does give us a 0:20:38.476 --> 0:20:42.356 false sense of accomplishment or effort of some kind, like 0:20:42.396 --> 0:20:45.876 we did something, but actually that's something hasn't translated into 0:20:45.916 --> 0:20:48.956 any meaningful external action. And so if we were to 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:51.676 channel our efforts that way, it just might be better 0:20:51.716 --> 0:20:52.156 for the world. 0:20:52.756 --> 0:20:54.876 Yeah, and also just to this point about connection and 0:20:54.916 --> 0:20:58.036 how we build more of it, right, it's no secret 0:20:58.036 --> 0:20:59.996 that the world is really polarized right now. It's not 0:21:00.036 --> 0:21:03.316