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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Why are so many of the people that I meet

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Speaker 2: all across America and increasing across the world, why are

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Speaker 2: they so unhappy? Why do they feel that sense of

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Speaker 2: emptiness that so many people describe. So many people would say,

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Speaker 2: I guess this is just the way life is. I

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Speaker 2: guess it's like everyone's feeling this way. It's that's just life.

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Speaker 2: And I refuse to believe that because I don't think

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Speaker 2: that we are consigned to live a life of emptiness

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Speaker 2: where we're just unhappy, because that life is hard and

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Speaker 2: as a result unhappy. Life can be hard, and life

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Speaker 2: often is hard, but that doesn't mean that it has

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Speaker 2: to be unfulfilling.

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Speaker 3: That's doctor Vivek Morphy, he served as the US Surgeon

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Speaker 3: General under both President Obama and President Biden. This is

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Speaker 3: the vague second time on the show. The first time

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Speaker 3: he joined us, we explored the science of loneliness and

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Speaker 3: how bad it can be for our long term health,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't get to talk about how to actually

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Speaker 3: build stronger, more meaningful connections in our lives. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to hear Vivgu's advice on this topic because when I

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Speaker 3: hear that it's important to quote create community I feel intimidated,

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Speaker 3: like where do I start? Should I be signing up

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Speaker 3: for a bunch of clubs or striking up small talk

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Speaker 3: with strangers? Maybe you can relate, but I'm feeling really

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Speaker 3: tired right now, and the idea of adding more items

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Speaker 3: to my to do list is exhausting. But as you'll

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Speaker 3: hear in this conversation, it turns out that building stronger

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Speaker 3: connection isn't necessarily about doing more. It's about being intentional

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Speaker 3: about the way we interact with the people and communities

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Speaker 3: we already have in our lives. I left this conversation

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Speaker 3: with a far more expansive understanding of what connection can

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Speaker 3: look like in my life, and I hope you will too.

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Speaker 3: I'm Maya Shunker, a scientist who studies human behavior, and

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Speaker 3: this is a slight change of plans, a show about

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Speaker 3: who we are and who we become in the face

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Speaker 3: of a big change.

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Speaker 2: In its deepest sense, community is a place where we

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Speaker 2: know each other, where we help each other, and where

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Speaker 2: we find purpose in contributing to each other's lives. That's

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Speaker 2: what makes a real community. Okay, It's what my father

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Speaker 2: had when he was in a small village in India

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Speaker 2: growing up. He was really poor. He didn't and when

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Speaker 2: I say poor, I mean there are levels of poor.

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Speaker 2: He was really really poor. I mean they didn't have

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Speaker 2: enough money to buy slippers or shoes. So the first

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Speaker 2: time he wore something on his feet was when he

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Speaker 2: was fifteen, and he got because he wasn't used to it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have enough food around the table most nights,

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Speaker 2: so they just kept pouring more water, you know, to

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Speaker 2: dilute the dolls so there would be enough to fill,

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Speaker 2: you know, each child's bowl. Times were tough. But interestingly,

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Speaker 2: he told me he never felt lonely until he left

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Speaker 2: his village. That even though they were poor materially, they

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Speaker 2: were rich in community, and people knew each other there.

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Speaker 2: They actually looked out for each other. They would invite

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Speaker 2: someone in just to come talk if they were, you know,

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Speaker 2: hanging out outside the house or if they were walking

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Speaker 2: down the street. They also helped each other. When my

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Speaker 2: father's mother died when he was ten from tuberculosis, the

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Speaker 2: whole village stepped in and became surrogate parents to him

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Speaker 2: and his five siblings. That is what community really is now.

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Speaker 2: That is a It can feel like a lofty goal,

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Speaker 2: and especially if you don't have any sense of community

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Speaker 2: of life right now. Yeah, it can feel like a

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Speaker 2: big distance to go, but here's what I would say.

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Speaker 2: The path to building community is made up of small steps.

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Speaker 2: It's not like you need to completely quit your job,

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Speaker 2: move to a different city, like transform everything. You can

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Speaker 2: start very small, right. So, one of the things is

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Speaker 2: a few things I often suggest that people do, just

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Speaker 2: at a very baseline level, is to spend five minutes

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Speaker 2: a day reaching out to someone you care about. That

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Speaker 2: could be a video call, it could be visiting them

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Speaker 2: in person, it could be a phone call, whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: five minutes. The second thing is to make sure you're

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Speaker 2: doing one thing each day to help someone. Doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be someone you know. It could be somebody in

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Speaker 2: your neighborhood, in your community, in your workplace, and it

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Speaker 2: can be something small. And the third thing is to

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Speaker 2: actually make sure that when you are people with people,

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Speaker 2: that you are present right because a lot of times

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Speaker 2: what happens, and I have been guilty of this on

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Speaker 2: countless occasions, You're catching up with somebody and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, your hand dips into your pocket, your

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Speaker 2: phone comes out, you're refreshing your inbox. If you're me.

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Speaker 2: You're checking the scores on ESPN or like you know,

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Speaker 2: you're checking in news, and you don't have to do

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Speaker 2: these things, but we it's just like a compulsion. We

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Speaker 2: just do them, of course, right, and our attention frazzles.

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Speaker 2: But I suspect you and I have both been in

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Speaker 2: conversation with people in one case where we knew they were.

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Speaker 4: Distracted, absolutely yeah, and in another case when they were

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Speaker 4: fully focused on us, when they were looking into our eyes,

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Speaker 4: really listening to what we were saying, responding to that,

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Speaker 4: and that feels incredible. Yes, there's one last thing I'll say,

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Speaker 4: which is that something we realize. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of us during the pandemic, especially in those first few

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Speaker 4: months of the pandemic, when people weren't seeing each other

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Speaker 4: very much, but we realized that it's not just the

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Speaker 4: people we know whose presence gives us comfort, it's actually

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Speaker 4: people we don't know. People would tell me how they

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Speaker 4: didn't realize how much how nice it was actually just

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Speaker 4: to be in a coffee shop for other people, Yes,

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Speaker 4: to be walking down the street and see other people, yes.

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Speaker 3: And see their facial expressions like not have mass on exactly,

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Speaker 3: which includes so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say at a very basic level, if

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Speaker 2: you're finding yourself, you know, unable to reach out and

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Speaker 2: call someone for whatever reason, that even just being around

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Speaker 2: other people, like leaving your home and going to the

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Speaker 2: grocery store, going to a local event or talk you know,

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Speaker 2: at your local library or at your community center, seeing

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Speaker 2: a load to your neighbor, any of these things, like

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Speaker 2: just being around other people, can be very powerful.

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Speaker 3: I'm happy you brought that up because because of the

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Speaker 3: moment we're in right now, where people are feeling just

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Speaker 3: so utterly exhausted and depleted, and because socializing does take effort,

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Speaker 3: it can feel very draining for a person who feels

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Speaker 3: like they're lacking connection on a Friday night after a

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Speaker 3: very challenging work week, and then they you know, every

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Speaker 3: time they look at the news they see something horrific happening.

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Speaker 3: To say, Okay, yes, I'm going to make an effort

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Speaker 3: to reach out to a friend and have a you know,

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Speaker 3: one on one dinner, something that just feels more taxing,

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Speaker 3: especially for people who might lean a little bit more introverted.

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Speaker 3: What I like about your advice is that in those moments, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe you don't do the dinner thing. But maybe you

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Speaker 3: walk to your downtown area and you just kind of

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Speaker 3: people watch, or maybe you go to a cafe, or

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Speaker 3: maybe you sit down for dinner even by yourself, but

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Speaker 3: you're in the presence of other people. And I do

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Speaker 3: find that presence very uplifting. I remember during the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: when again we had to be socially isolated, I would

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Speaker 3: walk by myself to our downtown farmer's market and I

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Speaker 3: would just sit and just watch people come and go,

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Speaker 3: and there is sometimes street musicians and whatnot, and I

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Speaker 3: would feel some uplift, Like you said, even though I

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Speaker 3: wasn't creating any sort of long lasting, meaningful connection with

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Speaker 3: other humans.

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Speaker 1: It was just so comforting to be with others.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely it nourishes us at a very deep level.

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Speaker 2: And it's It's also why when you're walking on the street,

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Speaker 2: even if you just picked a couple of people and

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Speaker 2: smiled at them as you're workingnize it. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to say a word. Yeah, it is proven to make

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Speaker 2: you and the other person feel better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but what all when they don't smile back, Bud,

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Speaker 3: Why are we not a little bit kinder towards each other,

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Speaker 3: Like well, I'll get into an elevator and I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 3: how's it going, And there's just really no response at all,

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Speaker 3: And sometimes I just want to give up. And so

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Speaker 3: what do I do when I don't get the high

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Speaker 3: end response?

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Speaker 1: And then I feel a little bit of that rejection.

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Speaker 2: So that's a good question, and I know it's your

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Speaker 2: topic because I felt the same thing, and I think

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Speaker 2: that it for me. What I've tried to do is

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Speaker 2: to understand the moment why people usually don't respond. It's

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Speaker 2: not usually because they're rejecting you, per se. Right, Like

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Speaker 2: if ten people came into the same thing, their response

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Speaker 2: may be the same. But most people there their social

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Speaker 2: muscle has become so weak over time that it's hard

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Speaker 2: for them to activate it. You know right away. There

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Speaker 2: are people are just donned that you said below.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely it seems like I lit up a firework or

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Speaker 3: something in front of their face. They really do. There's

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Speaker 3: almost an element of fear and like true surprise. They

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Speaker 3: almost jump a little bit. That's right, because it's so

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Speaker 3: not the norm.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So if you recognize that most people's

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Speaker 2: lack of response is usually surprise or fear. Yeah, or

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Speaker 2: like some unfamiliarity for me that I was making me

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Speaker 2: feel better because actually, then it makes me realize, am

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Speaker 2: my saying hello to them is actually helpful because it's

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Speaker 2: over time and I help you more because it more

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Speaker 2: like Look, I have had this experience also as somebody

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Speaker 2: said hello, and I was so surprised I couldn't get

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Speaker 2: out a hello before they actually exited the setting right

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Speaker 2: or they were walking past me and they already passed,

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Speaker 2: but I was like, oh, hello, yeah, they're gone, right,

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Speaker 2: But it made me feel good. Number one that they

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Speaker 2: said hello, and it made me more attentive about saying

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Speaker 2: hello the next time, like somebody actually said hello to me.

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Speaker 2: All this just to say that I find recognizing that

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Speaker 2: like helps me feel remember that the reject it's not

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Speaker 2: sort of like personal rejection director to me. And what

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Speaker 2: I'm doing when I do that is not only helping

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Speaker 2: myself feel good, but I'm putting just more social energy

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Speaker 2: out into the world. And this is how norms change

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Speaker 2: is when people start behaving differently in larger and larger numbers,

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Speaker 2: and when that behavior becomes acceptable. And I think if

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Speaker 2: we can make it more and more of a norm

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Speaker 2: that we smile at people when we see them, and

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Speaker 2: you could choose the elevator could be your work spot,

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Speaker 2: you know, for this experiment, and you can just say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: whenever I'm in an elevator, I'm going to smile at people.

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Speaker 2: And that's just it. But that can make a really

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Speaker 2: big difference again in how you feel.

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Speaker 1: It's just hard in the moment.

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Speaker 3: But then I also think maybe being a little bit

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Speaker 3: more empathetic too, because what if I have actually just

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Speaker 3: encountered someone on a really hard day that they're having

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Speaker 3: and so yes, I didn't get anything in return, but

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Speaker 3: maybe they got a good gift for me whishes to

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Speaker 3: be smile of at.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, so that is helpful. Can we talk about energy

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Speaker 2: for a second, Yeah, because you just talked about the

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Speaker 2: fact that a lot of people are feeling really drained

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Speaker 2: right now, and then when you're drained, it's hard to

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Speaker 2: summon the energy to be social correct. So I think

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Speaker 2: this is a real phenomenon. So let's just talk for

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Speaker 2: a moment about this energy drain thing, because I think

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Speaker 2: about our emotional wellbeing almost like a fuel tank, right,

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Speaker 2: and there are things that feed that tank that increase fuel,

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Speaker 2: if you will. Social connection is one of them. Gratitude

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Speaker 2: is another. But also sleep, you know, helps tremendously, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of us don't get good quality or quantity

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Speaker 2: of sleep because our devices are interrupting our sleep. We

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Speaker 2: get up and we'll drink some water, and then we're

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Speaker 2: checking our email, et cetera. But they are all of

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Speaker 2: these things that can feed into, like our emotional wellbeing.

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Speaker 2: But there are also things that drain our emotional tank, right,

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Speaker 2: and those include negative people, negative news, and for many people,

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Speaker 2: their experience of social media, which is often negative, right,

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Speaker 2: not for everyone dimensions to it, but when your experience

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Speaker 2: of social media is that you're primarily seeing people ranting

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Speaker 2: about things, treating each other poorly, and negative news posted.

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Speaker 2: These three things. So social media, the news, and negative

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Speaker 2: people will drain you, right. And so I think if

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Speaker 2: we want or.

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Speaker 3: Other people's highlight reels, which can also drain you absolutely,

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Speaker 3: because then you're thinking, oh my god, am I the

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Speaker 3: only one suffering here? Why are they living the best

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Speaker 3: life ever in Spain?

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Speaker 1: And here I am.

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Speaker 2: Exactly yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And that constant culture

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Speaker 2: of comparison, which is dramatically accelerated online, Yes, I can

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Speaker 2: drain us too. So I think as we think about

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Speaker 2: how to improve our emotional fuel tank and fill it up,

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Speaker 2: we have to plug the holes while we're also trying

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Speaker 2: to fill the tank. And so like, for I was

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Speaker 2: just telling in my own life what that's looked like.

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Speaker 2: That's like number one, I'm just a lot more intentional

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Speaker 2: about my interactions engagement with people. So if somebody is

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Speaker 2: really negative, or if they're like constantly like complaining about the

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Speaker 2: world and dragging me down, et cetera, just have increasingly

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Speaker 2: chosen not to engage in those interactions, you know, and

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Speaker 2: to try to step away. Now easier said than done.

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Speaker 2: What if that person is a family member who you

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Speaker 2: live with, exactly.

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Speaker 3: You're a coworker that you have to work on a

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Speaker 3: project with, right, what can you do in that case?

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Speaker 3: Viig to tame their power over your mind and your

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Speaker 3: well being?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So sometimes, look, if it's a case where you

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Speaker 2: cannot reduce the amount of time and exposure that you

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Speaker 2: have to the person, sometimes you need to actually have

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Speaker 2: an honest conversation. And it doesn't have to be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you're making me feel horrible, stop it, right, although sometimes

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Speaker 2: that you have to be that blunt, but sometimes it

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Speaker 2: can just be something as simple as like, let's just

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Speaker 2: say that they're bringing up politics all the time and

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Speaker 2: it makes you feel just worse about the world and

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Speaker 2: think about stuff that you don't want to think about.

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Speaker 2: You just say them, hey, look, I love working with you,

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Speaker 2: but I just really don't enjoy talking about politics. Could

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Speaker 2: we just your clear politics? We just talk about other stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to talk about your family, about work, about

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Speaker 2: your recreation, anything else, but I just don't like that

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Speaker 2: about politics. And most people will respect that, you know,

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Speaker 2: but it requires us to sometimes be a little bit direct.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that I have done when it comes

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Speaker 2: to news is I've largely like reduced my consumption of

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Speaker 2: news by something like ninety five and ninety nine percent, right,

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Speaker 2: So I don't watch the news on TV anymore. I

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Speaker 2: cancel my TV subscription some years ago. I generally don't

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Speaker 2: read most news stories. I'll sometimes see I'll see digests

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Speaker 2: of headlines, so I have a sense of what's happening

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Speaker 2: in the world and can dive deeper. I certainly read

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Speaker 2: articles that trusted friends may send me, or others or

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Speaker 2: people I work with, because I know that they're filtering

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Speaker 2: it for the kind of content that will be useful

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Speaker 2: and important to me, and you can't escape all of it,

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Speaker 2: by the way, like you're going to see something, to

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Speaker 2: be walking down an airport, you're going to see like new

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Speaker 2: news on the TV screen, Like you're going to see stuff.

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Speaker 2: And that's fine, but we can make choices to dramatically

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Speaker 2: reduce our consumption of news. And look, I hate to

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Speaker 2: say it, but the news is trended negative over to

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Speaker 2: the last few decades. There are measurably more negative headlines.

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Speaker 2: We know that fear and anxiety are very reliable ways

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Speaker 2: to get people to pay attention, and the media industry

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Speaker 2: knows that too.

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Speaker 1: So they're praying on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you stoke fear and anxiety, people are

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Speaker 2: more likely to watch to click and that generates revenue.

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Speaker 2: And so the business model is largely, unfortunately steeped in

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Speaker 2: stoking our fear and anxiety. So again, it's not that

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Speaker 2: all news is bad, but it's that there's it's almost

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Speaker 2: like if I were to give you a container of

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Speaker 2: yogurt and I told you, look, this yogurt has protein

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Speaker 2: in it. It's got some very vitamins and minerals in it.

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Speaker 2: But by the way, it's spoiled. Actually, you'd be like, look,

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Speaker 2: I know there's good stuff in there, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know how to separate the good from the bad easily.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to have to just put it aside.

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Speaker 2: And I find myself having to do that not only

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Speaker 2: within news but also then finally with social media. But

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Speaker 2: for me, and this is true for me, may I'll

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Speaker 2: be true for everyone. It was like for every one

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Speaker 2: good thing I was encountering, there were like twenty things

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Speaker 2: that were dragging me down. Yeah, And I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is like not a good do the next benefit

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Speaker 2: kids say? So I was like, you know, I just

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Speaker 2: this is not worth it. So I pull back on it,

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Speaker 2: and I will tell you. I was like, wow, I

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Speaker 2: normally feel better. I actually have more time because I

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Speaker 2: was at we spend more time on social media than

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Speaker 2: we think we do. Adolescents, by the way, I spend

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Speaker 2: four point eight hours a day on social media alone,

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Speaker 2: not screens, just social media. So then I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I actually can read a bit because I wasn't reading much.

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Speaker 2: I can be more present with family, all of these things.

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Speaker 2: So I mentioned all this just to say that in

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Speaker 2: our own way, many of us are feeling drained, and

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Speaker 2: we not only need to think about how to fill

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Speaker 2: our tank more with things like social connection, activities that

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Speaker 2: bring us joy, with moments of gratitude and moments of peace,

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Speaker 2: but we also need to plug these holes because there's

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Speaker 2: a lot that's draining our energy right now. And I

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Speaker 2: just worry that if everyone is drained all the time,

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Speaker 2: how are we going to get together and do the

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Speaker 2: things they need to be done in the world. But

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Speaker 2: also how are we going to enjoy our lives, build friendship,

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Speaker 2: be a part of community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I understand the reduction in social media use almost being

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Speaker 3: uncontroversial when it comes to such a high reduction in

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Speaker 3: news consumption. How do you square that with this noble

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Speaker 3: goal of being an educated, informed citizen of the world

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Speaker 3: who stays on top of stuff. Because I can see

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Speaker 3: that being that filling some people with discomfort, like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: if I back away from the news, does that mean

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Speaker 3: that I've stopped caring about other people? Does that mean

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Speaker 3: that I'm burying my head in the sand doing an

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Speaker 3: ostrich situation when the world's on fire? Will that make

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Speaker 3: me feel less inclined to be socially active, to engage

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Speaker 3: in public service like help me and other people square that.

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Speaker 2: So this is and this is what we talk about

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Speaker 2: in my family all the time because my wife, Alice

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Speaker 2: is she's an extraordinary advocate and somebody who's just so

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Speaker 2: her DNA is to help people and to respond when

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Speaker 2: there's a need. And so she's also she and I

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Speaker 2: both have been thinking about how do we help be

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Speaker 2: a positive force in the world where at a time

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Speaker 2: where a lot of difficult and painful things are happening.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think that reducing news consumption has to

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Speaker 2: be consistent with ignoring what's happening in the world or

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Speaker 2: being uneducated. Okay, I think instead what is happening right

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Speaker 2: now is a pendulum swung so far in one end

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Speaker 2: that we're not reading a news story about a situation.

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Speaker 2: We're reading it ten times, written by ten ten different ways,

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Speaker 2: by ten different outlets. And that has its own toll,

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Speaker 2: because if you're reading ten negative articles instead of one

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Speaker 2: concise article, that's your time, that's also your energy that

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Speaker 2: you're expending. Most of us are not at all in

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Speaker 2: danger of being uninformed about what major events that are

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Speaker 2: happening in the world. We could reduce our news consumption

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Speaker 2: by eighty ninety percent and still largely get the big

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Speaker 2: events that are happening. But finally, I'll just say, in

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Speaker 2: terms of being a part of positive change, being an

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Speaker 2: advocate fighting for people who might be hurting right now,

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Speaker 2: we need to do that, There's no question, And I

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Speaker 2: would actually say we are better poised to do that

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Speaker 2: when we have more energy in our tank and more

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Speaker 2: time on our hands, and a lot of our time

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Speaker 2: and energy is being scrolled away and siphoned away by

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Speaker 2: the negative news that we are consuming, the time we're

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Speaker 2: spending doing that, and the time we're spending on social media.

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Speaker 2: I would love to see people dramatically reduce their consumption

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Speaker 2: of news and social media and dramatically increase their engagement

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Speaker 2: in their real world, whether it's meeting with their legislators

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Speaker 2: about issues of matter, whether it's protesting, whether it's going

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Speaker 2: to community meetings and talking about how is a community

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Speaker 2: we can get together and help people who are struggling

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Speaker 2: and suffering them That real world advocacy matters, But it's

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Speaker 2: often at odds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't do that when your tank is empty.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, Yeah, I think when we have a really visceral,

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Speaker 3: emotional negative reaction to a news article, and we find

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Speaker 3: ourselves spiraling in our bedrooms. It does give us a

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Speaker 3: false sense of accomplishment or effort of some kind, like

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Speaker 3: we did something, but actually that's something hasn't translated into

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Speaker 3: any meaningful external action. And so if we were to

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00:20:48,996 --> 00:20:51,676
Speaker 3: channel our efforts that way, it just might be better

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Speaker 3: for the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also just to this point about connection and

399
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Speaker 2: how we build more of it, right, it's no secret

400
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Speaker 2: that the world is really polarized right now. It's not

401
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Speaker 2: just the United States. Many countries are experiencing this. It's

402
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Speaker 2: no secret that that's led to a lot of strife

403
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Speaker 2: and anger and times even violence. Right, many people used

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Speaker 2: to encounter when I travel, As a certain general would

405
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Speaker 2: say to me, why is it that we seem to

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Speaker 2: treat each other so poorly these days? Why are we

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Speaker 2: does it seem like everyone everything is so much meaner

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Speaker 2: now than.

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Speaker 4: It used to be.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is we it's easier to be mean

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Speaker 2: and unkind to people and we don't know them. So

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Speaker 2: the question is how do we enable people to know

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Speaker 2: each other as stories? Better? Experience is better? That doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen easily online, right, Like, how many people do you

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Speaker 2: know whose views were profoundly changed because of a comment

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Speaker 2: that they read on social media or post, right, right,

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Speaker 2: More often that yeah, that happens actually when people come

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Speaker 2: to know one another in person.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So it's like if I'm going to community meetings, you know,

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Speaker 2: once a month, and I'm realizing, yeah, this person is

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Speaker 2: sitting next to me, they they are completely different from me,

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Speaker 2: Like they have kids, I don't. They're young, I'm old,

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Speaker 2: they're working, I'm retired. Like what do I have in

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Speaker 2: common with them? But then we're part of the same community,

426
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Speaker 2: we're each other. If we start talking and realizing actually

427
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Speaker 2: we're both concerned about the water quality in our community,

428
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Speaker 2: we're both really worried about something else that's impacting our community,

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Speaker 2: then hey, I got something in common with this person.

430
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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm listening to their comments, I'm learning a little

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Speaker 2: bit about their family, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: I've got a bridge that's been built. I've a foundation

433
00:22:30,196 --> 00:22:33,996
Speaker 2: on which I can then build further. But that's what

434
00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:37,756
Speaker 2: happens in person, and that's why I think making sure

435
00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:40,156
Speaker 2: that we are doing the things we need to fill

436
00:22:40,156 --> 00:22:42,676
Speaker 2: our tank, avoiding the things to drain our tank, and

437
00:22:42,716 --> 00:22:47,556
Speaker 2: creating opportunities for people to come together and gather, whether

438
00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,796
Speaker 2: it's for entertainment and joy, whether it's for understanding what

439
00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:53,356
Speaker 2: we can do to support each other. These are vital.

440
00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:55,996
Speaker 2: Allows you to tell an example, I just happened two

441
00:22:56,076 --> 00:22:58,836
Speaker 2: days ago. Yeah, I did this event a couple of

442
00:22:58,876 --> 00:23:02,396
Speaker 2: days ago in Marine County in California, just north of

443
00:23:02,436 --> 00:23:06,596
Speaker 2: San Francisco, and it was for a community called the

444
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:10,276
Speaker 2: Marine Villages, and the villages as part of a broader

445
00:23:10,356 --> 00:23:13,276
Speaker 2: villages community as Boston Villages, San Francisco Villages, et cetera.

446
00:23:13,756 --> 00:23:17,116
Speaker 2: These are communities that came together to support seniors, realizing

447
00:23:17,116 --> 00:23:18,756
Speaker 2: that a lot of them needed some help and were

448
00:23:18,756 --> 00:23:23,036
Speaker 2: struggling with loneliness and isolation. And what's very interesting is

449
00:23:23,076 --> 00:23:26,436
Speaker 2: they just have these events where people can come together

450
00:23:26,476 --> 00:23:28,716
Speaker 2: and often will learn about topics. So I was a

451
00:23:28,716 --> 00:23:30,396
Speaker 2: speaker at one of these events. Every month they have

452
00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:33,276
Speaker 2: somebody come and speak, and people just come together and

453
00:23:33,316 --> 00:23:36,076
Speaker 2: they eat and they listen, they talk, and they learn.

454
00:23:36,876 --> 00:23:40,316
Speaker 2: But increasingly they also help, right, So they're thinking about

455
00:23:40,316 --> 00:23:42,836
Speaker 2: how they can be of service, like in the community,

456
00:23:42,916 --> 00:23:45,596
Speaker 2: who can they help within the community who might be struggling.

457
00:23:45,876 --> 00:23:47,596
Speaker 2: One woman I met there said to me, you know,

458
00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:50,596
Speaker 2: I've been really concerned. And she was not somebody who's

459
00:23:50,636 --> 00:23:52,236
Speaker 2: running the organization. She was just she was a member,

460
00:23:52,516 --> 00:23:55,036
Speaker 2: regular member of the organization. She said, you know, I've

461
00:23:55,036 --> 00:23:58,876
Speaker 2: been really concerned that suicide rates are so high on holidays.

462
00:23:59,236 --> 00:24:01,356
Speaker 2: She said, I've my feeling is that a lot of

463
00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:05,676
Speaker 2: people probably feel the acute pain of loneliness on holidays

464
00:24:05,676 --> 00:24:08,436
Speaker 2: when everyone's out with their families and they're by themselves.

465
00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:11,236
Speaker 2: She said, you know what I did is a couple

466
00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:14,116
Speaker 2: of years ago, I started hosting a party at my

467
00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:17,876
Speaker 2: house on all the major holidays, and I just post

468
00:24:17,876 --> 00:24:20,196
Speaker 2: signs so that everyone knows this is happening. They feel

469
00:24:20,236 --> 00:24:22,276
Speaker 2: like if they don't have a place they can go,

470
00:24:22,316 --> 00:24:24,596
Speaker 2: they can just come. She didn't say this to me

471
00:24:24,636 --> 00:24:26,796
Speaker 2: with any bravado or hey look at what I did.

472
00:24:26,996 --> 00:24:29,756
Speaker 2: She just happened to mention this. She was in a line,

473
00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:31,996
Speaker 2: you know that people who were you know who wanted

474
00:24:32,036 --> 00:24:34,436
Speaker 2: to talk for a minute. She just mentioned this, And

475
00:24:35,636 --> 00:24:39,516
Speaker 2: this is like, she's one person who's doing a wonderful

476
00:24:39,516 --> 00:24:41,956
Speaker 2: thing and making a big difference. But this is like

477
00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:44,876
Speaker 2: the power of what can happen when we create opportunities

478
00:24:44,916 --> 00:24:48,956
Speaker 2: for people to come together, and we never know when

479
00:24:49,036 --> 00:24:52,796
Speaker 2: one of those small acts of outreach and kindness can

480
00:24:52,876 --> 00:24:56,436
Speaker 2: read somebody at a critical moment of need, you know,

481
00:24:56,556 --> 00:25:00,876
Speaker 2: when they are feeling really down on their life. Like

482
00:25:00,956 --> 00:25:03,916
Speaker 2: when I talk to the people who've considered taking their

483
00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:07,836
Speaker 2: own life, who have considered suicide and then turned back,

484
00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:11,476
Speaker 2: I all often ask them like, what made you turn back?

485
00:25:12,356 --> 00:25:18,796
Speaker 2: What made you choose life? And so often it's a small,

486
00:25:20,236 --> 00:25:25,076
Speaker 2: seemingly innocuous thing that somebody said to them. It was

487
00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:29,436
Speaker 2: usually a small moment of kindness, a small moment where

488
00:25:29,476 --> 00:25:33,116
Speaker 2: they felt seen, I felt like they mattered, and that

489
00:25:33,236 --> 00:25:36,796
Speaker 2: gave them what they needed to hold on and to

490
00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:40,756
Speaker 2: stay with us. And so we can never underestimate that

491
00:25:40,836 --> 00:25:44,916
Speaker 2: power of reaching out to people, of showing up, and

492
00:25:44,956 --> 00:25:45,756
Speaker 2: of being in person.

493
00:25:49,876 --> 00:25:51,916
Speaker 3: We'll be back in a moment with a slight change

494
00:25:51,916 --> 00:26:16,436
Speaker 3: of plans. You wrote the vague in your parting prescription

495
00:26:17,076 --> 00:26:19,916
Speaker 3: to Americans a few weeks before you left the office

496
00:26:19,956 --> 00:26:23,716
Speaker 3: of Surgeon General that love is at the center of community.

497
00:26:23,836 --> 00:26:25,396
Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit more about that.

498
00:26:26,316 --> 00:26:31,476
Speaker 2: I think we have somehow come to see love as

499
00:26:31,636 --> 00:26:36,236
Speaker 2: less broad and powerful than it actually is. Look, my

500
00:26:36,596 --> 00:26:38,716
Speaker 2: belief for some time has been that there are two

501
00:26:38,756 --> 00:26:42,076
Speaker 2: primary forces that shape the decisions we make in the

502
00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:44,076
Speaker 2: actions we take in the world, and those are love

503
00:26:44,116 --> 00:26:46,956
Speaker 2: and fear right, and they each manifest in their own way.

504
00:26:46,956 --> 00:26:52,396
Speaker 2: Fear can manifest as insecurity, as jealousy, as rage. Love

505
00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:58,116
Speaker 2: can manifest as compassion, as generosity, as courage, as hope,

506
00:26:58,276 --> 00:27:03,396
Speaker 2: as forgiveness, as grace. And the question that I have

507
00:27:04,396 --> 00:27:07,316
Speaker 2: been asking myself increasing over the years when I'm making

508
00:27:07,356 --> 00:27:10,516
Speaker 2: big and small decisions, is what is guiding me in

509
00:27:10,556 --> 00:27:14,116
Speaker 2: this moment? Is it love or is it fear? And

510
00:27:14,156 --> 00:27:16,596
Speaker 2: I think if we really want to help society heal,

511
00:27:17,716 --> 00:27:22,036
Speaker 2: we need to have a conversation about love, about not

512
00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:24,796
Speaker 2: only how to express it in our lives, but how

513
00:27:24,796 --> 00:27:27,996
Speaker 2: to cultivate it in our children's lives, how to make

514
00:27:28,036 --> 00:27:31,236
Speaker 2: it a norm in society that governs how we interact

515
00:27:31,236 --> 00:27:34,276
Speaker 2: with each other, how we serve in government, how we

516
00:27:34,356 --> 00:27:37,596
Speaker 2: serve in organizations that we may lead. Right now, there's

517
00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:39,796
Speaker 2: a lot of fear in the world, and we need

518
00:27:39,836 --> 00:27:42,716
Speaker 2: more love. When I put together that Parting Prescription to America,

519
00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:45,636
Speaker 2: which was the last publication that I issued a search

520
00:27:45,636 --> 00:27:49,036
Speaker 2: in general, what was on my mind was this question

521
00:27:49,276 --> 00:27:52,676
Speaker 2: that had been bothering me for years, which was Why

522
00:27:52,716 --> 00:27:54,876
Speaker 2: are so many of the people that I meet all

523
00:27:54,916 --> 00:27:58,556
Speaker 2: across America and increasing across the world, why are they

524
00:27:58,956 --> 00:28:02,556
Speaker 2: so unhappy? Why do they feel that sense of emptiness

525
00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:07,076
Speaker 2: that so many people describe. And it bothered me because

526
00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:08,636
Speaker 2: so many people would say, I guess this is just

527
00:28:08,716 --> 00:28:12,396
Speaker 2: the way life. I guess it's like everyone's feeling this way.

528
00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:13,436
Speaker 2: It's just that's just life.

529
00:28:13,636 --> 00:28:17,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a surrender, yeah yeah.

530
00:28:17,636 --> 00:28:20,116
Speaker 2: And I refuse to believe that because I don't think

531
00:28:20,156 --> 00:28:23,156
Speaker 2: that we are consigned to live a life of emptiness. Yeah,

532
00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:26,196
Speaker 2: where we're just unhappy because that life is hard and

533
00:28:26,236 --> 00:28:29,236
Speaker 2: as a result unhappy. Life can be hard, and life

534
00:28:29,276 --> 00:28:33,076
Speaker 2: often is hard, but that doesn't mean that it has

535
00:28:33,116 --> 00:28:37,076
Speaker 2: to be unfulfilling. When I talk to young people, I

536
00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:40,316
Speaker 2: got an interesting tidbit that helped me understand this more deeply,

537
00:28:40,636 --> 00:28:44,276
Speaker 2: which is I would ask them the one consistent question

538
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:49,036
Speaker 2: high school college students, how do you define success? And

539
00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:52,076
Speaker 2: was really asking is how is society defining success for you?

540
00:28:52,396 --> 00:28:55,116
Speaker 2: And they would say some version of money, power, and fame.

541
00:28:56,276 --> 00:28:57,996
Speaker 2: Now they didn't always say they agreed.

542
00:28:57,716 --> 00:28:59,876
Speaker 1: With that, but that's what they'd been fed.

543
00:29:00,116 --> 00:29:01,876
Speaker 2: That's what they didn't fed, and that's what they had

544
00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:05,396
Speaker 2: to follow, and even with those who disagreed with that

545
00:29:05,436 --> 00:29:07,156
Speaker 2: are said, I'm not sure it's going to make me happy.

546
00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:10,636
Speaker 2: They didn't want to risk being left behind, so they

547
00:29:10,636 --> 00:29:13,476
Speaker 2: didn't step off the treadmill. And their parents were in

548
00:29:13,476 --> 00:29:16,076
Speaker 2: the same boat. No parent wants to put their kids

549
00:29:16,116 --> 00:29:19,916
Speaker 2: at a disadvantage or makes them or you know, lead

550
00:29:19,916 --> 00:29:22,596
Speaker 2: them away from success in any way. And this is

551
00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:24,756
Speaker 2: a form that was being given. So parents are also

552
00:29:25,316 --> 00:29:26,956
Speaker 2: on the band where I can trying to help their kids,

553
00:29:26,996 --> 00:29:30,756
Speaker 2: you know, pursue. Those are those elements of success. But

554
00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:34,276
Speaker 2: what really matters for our fulfillment, it turns out, based

555
00:29:34,316 --> 00:29:41,516
Speaker 2: on science, our stories, our history, and our scripture scriptures

556
00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:48,036
Speaker 2: across faiths, is relationships, purpose, and service. Those are the

557
00:29:48,076 --> 00:29:52,196
Speaker 2: three elements that drive fulfillment. That is a trya of fulfillment.

558
00:29:52,476 --> 00:29:55,156
Speaker 2: But relationships, purpose, and service have to be anchored in

559
00:29:55,196 --> 00:29:58,276
Speaker 2: a core virtue, and that virtue is love. And that

560
00:29:58,476 --> 00:30:03,076
Speaker 2: matters because if you pursue relationships out of fear, right,

561
00:30:03,156 --> 00:30:05,956
Speaker 2: if you're doing service in your community because you're fearful,

562
00:30:05,996 --> 00:30:07,636
Speaker 2: if you don't, you won't be able to put it

563
00:30:07,676 --> 00:30:09,636
Speaker 2: on your resume and get into ca You get a

564
00:30:09,716 --> 00:30:13,756
Speaker 2: drop like that is problematic, and it doesn't generate the

565
00:30:13,836 --> 00:30:19,556
Speaker 2: kind of fulfillment that comes from knowing people, from helping people,

566
00:30:19,916 --> 00:30:22,476
Speaker 2: and from finding purpose and lifting each other up. We

567
00:30:22,636 --> 00:30:25,116
Speaker 2: all want to be a part of something bigger than ourselves.

568
00:30:26,036 --> 00:30:29,636
Speaker 2: That's part of human nature. It's why the eclipse was

569
00:30:29,676 --> 00:30:33,236
Speaker 2: such an incredible moment for so many people across the world.

570
00:30:33,636 --> 00:30:35,476
Speaker 2: You know, in twenty twenty four, we felt like we

571
00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:39,636
Speaker 2: were part of something bigger. It's why astronauts who you

572
00:30:40,036 --> 00:30:43,676
Speaker 2: may I've talked to over the years will describe looking

573
00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:48,356
Speaker 2: at the Earth from their spaceship feeling so small, yet

574
00:30:48,356 --> 00:30:50,716
Speaker 2: feeling so deeply connected in that moment because they're a

575
00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:51,716
Speaker 2: part of something bigger.

576
00:30:52,516 --> 00:30:55,596
Speaker 3: You don't see the state lines and the country lines from.

577
00:30:56,476 --> 00:30:58,396
Speaker 2: It all feels like we're one. And that's why a

578
00:30:58,516 --> 00:31:02,836
Speaker 2: world and a culture that tells us that successful and

579
00:31:02,876 --> 00:31:05,076
Speaker 2: fulfillment are to be found in focusing more and more

580
00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:08,036
Speaker 2: on just ourselves, on the wealth we can aggregate, the

581
00:31:08,036 --> 00:31:11,556
Speaker 2: thing we can accrue, and the power that we can amass.

582
00:31:12,436 --> 00:31:16,236
Speaker 2: That is a set of messages that increasingly take us

583
00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:18,116
Speaker 2: away from the fulfillment we need. And that's why what

584
00:31:18,156 --> 00:31:20,836
Speaker 2: we have to do in this moment is to actually

585
00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:24,916
Speaker 2: rebuild a culture that's rooted in this trya of fulfillment

586
00:31:24,996 --> 00:31:27,876
Speaker 2: that's anchored in that core virtue of love. And if

587
00:31:27,876 --> 00:31:30,916
Speaker 2: we do that, then I feel confident that we and

588
00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:34,036
Speaker 2: our children can live more fulfilling lives and we will

589
00:31:34,076 --> 00:31:35,476
Speaker 2: help future generations to.

590
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:36,076
Speaker 4: Do the same.

591
00:31:37,076 --> 00:31:39,676
Speaker 3: One thing that really resonated with me from this conversation

592
00:31:40,556 --> 00:31:43,676
Speaker 3: is that when it comes to building community and connection,

593
00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:47,276
Speaker 3: we can take out some of the intimidation factor by

594
00:31:47,316 --> 00:31:51,196
Speaker 3: starting really small, right, doing small things to nurture this

595
00:31:51,316 --> 00:31:54,156
Speaker 3: aspect of our lives, either in ourselves or in the

596
00:31:54,236 --> 00:31:57,036
Speaker 3: children that we're raising, or the communities that we live in.

597
00:31:57,116 --> 00:32:00,676
Speaker 3: And so one story I heard about you that I

598
00:32:00,676 --> 00:32:03,516
Speaker 3: absolutely loved that I think will liberate parents everywhere is

599
00:32:04,196 --> 00:32:07,676
Speaker 3: you have stopped making it a requirement that your house

600
00:32:07,756 --> 00:32:10,476
Speaker 3: is clean in order for you to invite people over

601
00:32:11,276 --> 00:32:13,796
Speaker 3: to hang out with you. Tell me more about that,

602
00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:15,676
Speaker 3: because I think if the Search and General can commit

603
00:32:15,756 --> 00:32:18,156
Speaker 3: former Search and General can commit to that, I think

604
00:32:18,356 --> 00:32:21,076
Speaker 3: all of us in our lives can say, Okay, maybe

605
00:32:21,156 --> 00:32:23,196
Speaker 3: we just get rid of that one barrier.

606
00:32:24,116 --> 00:32:26,476
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to our home, we realized

607
00:32:26,476 --> 00:32:29,716
Speaker 2: that Alice and I that we were in this school

608
00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:33,356
Speaker 2: community by default because our kids were in school with

609
00:32:33,436 --> 00:32:36,556
Speaker 2: other kids and they all had parents, but we weren't

610
00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:39,076
Speaker 2: really part of the community because weren't really seeing each other.

611
00:32:39,556 --> 00:32:42,436
Speaker 2: We weren't getting to know each other. We also realized

612
00:32:42,476 --> 00:32:44,516
Speaker 2: that in with our friends circle, but everyone was leading

613
00:32:44,516 --> 00:32:47,676
Speaker 2: busy lives and it's just like everyone is so overscheduled

614
00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,716
Speaker 2: and it was like hard to get together. And so

615
00:32:50,796 --> 00:32:53,676
Speaker 2: we finally just thought to ourselves, like, what are the

616
00:32:53,716 --> 00:32:57,156
Speaker 2: barriers that are holding us back from actually having people

617
00:32:57,276 --> 00:32:59,276
Speaker 2: because we love to have people over as opposed to

618
00:32:59,356 --> 00:33:01,556
Speaker 2: going out, because it just feels like it was actually

619
00:33:01,596 --> 00:33:05,036
Speaker 2: started very practical. It was because our kids, like, we're

620
00:33:05,076 --> 00:33:07,156
Speaker 2: not used to babysitters, and we always then had to

621
00:33:07,196 --> 00:33:09,516
Speaker 2: be home by like eight or eight thirty to put

622
00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:11,116
Speaker 2: them to bed. And we're like, well, how can we

623
00:33:11,156 --> 00:33:13,356
Speaker 2: go out to a restaurant and then run back. But

624
00:33:13,436 --> 00:33:16,516
Speaker 2: if we can meet at home, then our kids can

625
00:33:16,556 --> 00:33:18,476
Speaker 2: just drift off to sleep, we can still hang out

626
00:33:18,476 --> 00:33:20,276
Speaker 2: here with people, they can play in the living room,

627
00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:22,196
Speaker 2: they won't get bored in the restaurant. So that's how

628
00:33:22,196 --> 00:33:24,596
Speaker 2: this started, and then we just realized it's just nice

629
00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:26,916
Speaker 2: to be in a house, right but then the problem

630
00:33:26,996 --> 00:33:29,716
Speaker 2: was our house was chaos. It's like messy. It was like,

631
00:33:30,396 --> 00:33:33,116
Speaker 2: you know, it was small, and like we you know,

632
00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:36,476
Speaker 2: my wife Alice can cook, and I'm not like a

633
00:33:36,516 --> 00:33:38,356
Speaker 2: great cook, and so we're like, well if we can't

634
00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:39,996
Speaker 2: make fancy food like for people.

635
00:33:40,836 --> 00:33:41,476
Speaker 4: Finally, at one.

636
00:33:41,356 --> 00:33:43,956
Speaker 2: Point, out of desperation, just shove that all aside and

637
00:33:43,996 --> 00:33:46,436
Speaker 2: we just like message a friendly We said, look, our

638
00:33:46,436 --> 00:33:49,156
Speaker 2: house is chaotic, but if you have time, and this

639
00:33:49,196 --> 00:33:51,036
Speaker 2: is last minute, if you want to just come over

640
00:33:51,076 --> 00:33:53,276
Speaker 2: this evening and just eat whatever we're feeding a kid,

641
00:33:54,516 --> 00:33:55,396
Speaker 2: then that'd be great.

642
00:33:56,236 --> 00:33:56,876
Speaker 1: I love that.

643
00:33:57,236 --> 00:34:00,196
Speaker 2: And not only did they come over, but they said

644
00:34:00,436 --> 00:34:03,236
Speaker 2: thank you for calling, because now we feel like we

645
00:34:03,276 --> 00:34:05,956
Speaker 2: can have people over because our house is chaotic too,

646
00:34:06,356 --> 00:34:09,356
Speaker 2: and we don't always know what to make. And I

647
00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:12,716
Speaker 2: also realized by the way an interesting things overscheduled as

648
00:34:12,756 --> 00:34:16,796
Speaker 2: people are. It turns out a lot of people can

649
00:34:16,836 --> 00:34:19,196
Speaker 2: do last minute stuff. Like if you call them like hey,

650
00:34:19,236 --> 00:34:20,596
Speaker 2: you want to just come over tonight or tomorrow night

651
00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:22,036
Speaker 2: or whatever, they can do it. But it's like when

652
00:34:22,076 --> 00:34:23,876
Speaker 2: we try to schedule an advance sometimes it's like I

653
00:34:23,876 --> 00:34:25,556
Speaker 2: don't know, I've got this, we got that, You're right,

654
00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:28,196
Speaker 2: so I don't know that we've been trying to be

655
00:34:28,356 --> 00:34:31,676
Speaker 2: more spontaneous like that. We've been trying to be clear

656
00:34:31,756 --> 00:34:35,636
Speaker 2: that what really matters is having time with people we love.

657
00:34:36,436 --> 00:34:39,196
Speaker 2: And when we think about the dinners and lunches we've

658
00:34:39,196 --> 00:34:41,356
Speaker 2: had with people we loved and how wonderful that was,

659
00:34:42,036 --> 00:34:44,756
Speaker 2: you know, we don't remember how clean their house was,

660
00:34:45,196 --> 00:34:50,156
Speaker 2: we don't remember exactly what they made. We just remember

661
00:34:50,796 --> 00:34:53,396
Speaker 2: that we had a wonderful time reconnecting with these friends.

662
00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:55,916
Speaker 2: So we're trying to get back to the heart of

663
00:34:55,956 --> 00:34:56,836
Speaker 2: what really matters.

664
00:34:57,156 --> 00:34:57,836
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that.

665
00:34:58,156 --> 00:35:02,276
Speaker 3: What other kinds of barriers do witness in the people

666
00:35:02,316 --> 00:35:04,116
Speaker 3: that you've talked to, either on the listening tour just

667
00:35:04,156 --> 00:35:07,436
Speaker 3: in your personal life that prevent us from taking these

668
00:35:07,436 --> 00:35:09,076
Speaker 3: small steps to connect with other people.

669
00:35:09,476 --> 00:35:12,596
Speaker 2: So there was a whole fun sort of publication that

670
00:35:12,636 --> 00:35:15,316
Speaker 2: I issued in twenty twenty four called Recipes for Connection.

671
00:35:16,196 --> 00:35:18,756
Speaker 2: And we did this because a lot of people were

672
00:35:18,796 --> 00:35:21,196
Speaker 2: telling us they want to have folks over for meals,

673
00:35:21,196 --> 00:35:24,356
Speaker 2: but they're scared too. Yeah, So we developed this little

674
00:35:24,596 --> 00:35:27,796
Speaker 2: the Recipes for Connection book, not to give people like

675
00:35:27,916 --> 00:35:29,876
Speaker 2: recipes for how to make souflet or how to make

676
00:35:29,916 --> 00:35:32,876
Speaker 2: you know, like lasagna, but more to give them recipes

677
00:35:32,916 --> 00:35:35,276
Speaker 2: for different ways to gather people, because one of the

678
00:35:35,316 --> 00:35:37,396
Speaker 2: examples concerns people have is like I don't know how

679
00:35:37,436 --> 00:35:39,516
Speaker 2: to cook. Yeah, right, so how can I have people over?

680
00:35:39,876 --> 00:35:42,356
Speaker 2: Or my house is too small, right? Or my friends

681
00:35:42,356 --> 00:35:45,836
Speaker 2: at fancy houses mine is not. They look down on me,

682
00:35:45,916 --> 00:35:48,596
Speaker 2: like there's all kinds of concerns. So one of the

683
00:35:48,676 --> 00:35:52,116
Speaker 2: ideas we had is something called a childhood Favorites pot luck,

684
00:35:52,396 --> 00:35:54,956
Speaker 2: which is that ever you just ask a group of

685
00:35:54,956 --> 00:35:57,236
Speaker 2: friends to come over and you say, everybody, just bring

686
00:35:57,236 --> 00:35:59,156
Speaker 2: a dish that you love when you're a kid. And

687
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:01,476
Speaker 2: I actually ended up doing this myself with a group

688
00:36:01,476 --> 00:36:04,676
Speaker 2: of chefs down in DC, and everyone brought a childhood

689
00:36:04,676 --> 00:36:08,436
Speaker 2: favorite over. I brought Rastamala, which is an Indian suite

690
00:36:08,436 --> 00:36:10,396
Speaker 2: that you're familiar with that my mom made.

691
00:36:10,516 --> 00:36:14,916
Speaker 1: I would have brought Kraft mac and cheese. Such an indulgence.

692
00:36:15,756 --> 00:36:18,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we got to not only taste these dishes,

693
00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:21,516
Speaker 2: but here people's stories about their childhood and that was beautiful.

694
00:36:21,636 --> 00:36:21,836
Speaker 3: Yeah.

695
00:36:21,916 --> 00:36:24,236
Speaker 2: We also have the idea of a leftover's party, right

696
00:36:24,276 --> 00:36:26,396
Speaker 2: where people could just you just invite everyone to just

697
00:36:26,476 --> 00:36:29,196
Speaker 2: bring great whatever leftovers they have in their fridge. Yes,

698
00:36:29,236 --> 00:36:31,116
Speaker 2: and then everyone is set together, so it just takes

699
00:36:31,156 --> 00:36:33,516
Speaker 2: their pressure off people who feel like I can't cook.

700
00:36:33,796 --> 00:36:36,596
Speaker 1: Yes, it's also okay.

701
00:36:36,956 --> 00:36:39,316
Speaker 3: I mean to your point about the barrier for us,

702
00:36:38,916 --> 00:36:41,516
Speaker 3: it's I've lost all my cooking skills. I used to

703
00:36:41,596 --> 00:36:43,316
Speaker 3: know how to cook really good South Indian food, and

704
00:36:43,316 --> 00:36:46,356
Speaker 3: I lost that skill when I think actually when I

705
00:36:46,516 --> 00:36:49,436
Speaker 3: joined the White House, because there's just no time to cook,

706
00:36:49,476 --> 00:36:52,076
Speaker 3: and so it's no longer something I can do well.

707
00:36:52,436 --> 00:36:55,236
Speaker 3: And so getting over that hump of it's actually okay

708
00:36:55,356 --> 00:36:58,876
Speaker 3: to get takeout when you have friends over. Yes, like, yes,

709
00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:01,716
Speaker 3: you can show your warmth and your love through other vehicles.

710
00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:03,116
Speaker 3: But I think for a while I was a little

711
00:37:03,116 --> 00:37:05,356
Speaker 3: bit self conscious, Oh are they going to think I

712
00:37:05,396 --> 00:37:07,596
Speaker 3: didn't put in the effort and time to actually cook

713
00:37:07,596 --> 00:37:10,196
Speaker 3: a proper meal for them. But like you said, people

714
00:37:10,316 --> 00:37:12,836
Speaker 3: just care so much less than you think. They just

715
00:37:12,996 --> 00:37:15,876
Speaker 3: want to have good conversation. Laughs with you.

716
00:37:16,476 --> 00:37:18,276
Speaker 2: That's right, and we do this all the time. We'll

717
00:37:18,316 --> 00:37:20,516
Speaker 2: just get takeout and have friends over because sometimes if

718
00:37:20,556 --> 00:37:22,356
Speaker 2: we're running, like we just don't have time to cook.

719
00:37:22,796 --> 00:37:24,836
Speaker 2: The other thing is like, if you look at the

720
00:37:24,956 --> 00:37:28,316
Speaker 2: dishes that we use in the plates, they're all mismatched,

721
00:37:28,356 --> 00:37:30,516
Speaker 2: the cracks in them. There's like all kinds of stuff.

722
00:37:30,556 --> 00:37:32,156
Speaker 2: And initially I was like, oh, do we need like

723
00:37:32,236 --> 00:37:34,956
Speaker 2: better stuff, you know, because like we're supposed to be

724
00:37:35,036 --> 00:37:37,636
Speaker 2: grown ups here and like should we have better forks

725
00:37:37,636 --> 00:37:40,316
Speaker 2: than I. But again, nobody cares, like you care more

726
00:37:40,356 --> 00:37:42,956
Speaker 2: than your guests care. Yeah, and if your guests who

727
00:37:42,956 --> 00:37:44,916
Speaker 2: really care about them, then you should think about whether

728
00:37:44,916 --> 00:37:48,036
Speaker 2: you're inviting the right people over. Yes, frankly yes. But

729
00:37:48,116 --> 00:37:52,996
Speaker 2: the people your friends, your family, they're just not going

730
00:37:53,036 --> 00:37:55,916
Speaker 2: to care. I mean, we used to have friends over,

731
00:37:56,276 --> 00:37:58,836
Speaker 2: you know, who we worked with in the administration, and

732
00:37:59,396 --> 00:38:01,436
Speaker 2: you know, some of these folks who are cabinet secretaries

733
00:38:01,476 --> 00:38:03,636
Speaker 2: or they're high ups and whatever like organization or this

734
00:38:03,756 --> 00:38:07,436
Speaker 2: or that. But you come over and they're just like

735
00:38:07,476 --> 00:38:09,996
Speaker 2: anybody else. You're human, because at the end of the day,

736
00:38:09,996 --> 00:38:11,956
Speaker 2: we all want the same thing, which is to spend

737
00:38:11,996 --> 00:38:15,836
Speaker 2: time with people we care about, and to do so

738
00:38:15,956 --> 00:38:18,996
Speaker 2: with ease, now with stress, you know, not feel like

739
00:38:18,996 --> 00:38:20,356
Speaker 2: we have to live up to something that we're not

740
00:38:20,876 --> 00:38:22,676
Speaker 2: or be somebody that we're not. We just want to

741
00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:24,956
Speaker 2: be ourselves with people we care about.

742
00:38:25,756 --> 00:38:29,596
Speaker 3: What is something that gives you a sense of hope

743
00:38:29,796 --> 00:38:31,396
Speaker 3: and a feeling of connection.

744
00:38:31,516 --> 00:38:33,236
Speaker 1: Right now, that's maybe surprised you that.

745
00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:41,156
Speaker 2: I have found that interestingly, going to the gym has

746
00:38:41,196 --> 00:38:44,396
Speaker 2: actually given me this funny sort of community that I

747
00:38:44,396 --> 00:38:47,556
Speaker 2: didn't expect. Right, So, I've been spending a few weeks

748
00:38:47,636 --> 00:38:51,276
Speaker 2: in California. You're visiting my in laws. But I kept

749
00:38:51,356 --> 00:38:53,636
Speaker 2: an East Coast schedule, so I was like getting up

750
00:38:53,636 --> 00:38:56,276
Speaker 2: early doing meetings, et cetera. But that meant that I'm

751
00:38:56,356 --> 00:38:58,636
Speaker 2: up at like four thirty in the morning and everyone

752
00:38:58,676 --> 00:39:00,596
Speaker 2: else is asleep. So I was like, hmm, it's a

753
00:39:00,596 --> 00:39:02,196
Speaker 2: good time to go to the gym. So I started

754
00:39:02,236 --> 00:39:04,676
Speaker 2: going to the gym with the five thirty crew. And

755
00:39:04,756 --> 00:39:06,676
Speaker 2: there is a crew that goes to the gym at

756
00:39:06,676 --> 00:39:11,236
Speaker 2: five thirty, and it was usually the same people, and

757
00:39:11,396 --> 00:39:14,036
Speaker 2: we were just there every day. We see each other

758
00:39:14,636 --> 00:39:17,716
Speaker 2: start smiling at each other, and I just felt like, uh,

759
00:39:18,036 --> 00:39:20,596
Speaker 2: a sense of familiarity and community. And it was a small,

760
00:39:20,596 --> 00:39:23,156
Speaker 2: subtle thing, but it was unexpected. The other thing that

761
00:39:23,196 --> 00:39:26,396
Speaker 2: happened at this gym is a year prior when I

762
00:39:26,436 --> 00:39:30,076
Speaker 2: had been there, I was just in the area basketball area,

763
00:39:30,156 --> 00:39:33,516
Speaker 2: shooting baskets, and they started setting up for pickleball, and

764
00:39:33,876 --> 00:39:36,716
Speaker 2: I had never played a pickleball, but I sat there

765
00:39:36,756 --> 00:39:39,956
Speaker 2: and watched as people were playing, and I felt that

766
00:39:40,076 --> 00:39:43,516
Speaker 2: same sense that I did in elementary school of knowing

767
00:39:43,556 --> 00:39:46,156
Speaker 2: that I liked sports, but feeling hesitant to ask if

768
00:39:46,196 --> 00:39:48,836
Speaker 2: I could join. It was like I reverted like being

769
00:39:48,876 --> 00:39:52,556
Speaker 2: a child all of a sudden. And this one woman

770
00:39:52,556 --> 00:39:56,516
Speaker 2: in the community saw me like kind of looking longingly

771
00:39:56,596 --> 00:39:59,476
Speaker 2: at the at the folks playing and said, do you

772
00:39:59,476 --> 00:40:02,076
Speaker 2: want to join? I said, I never played pickleball before,

773
00:40:02,596 --> 00:40:04,836
Speaker 2: and she said, well, I can teach you. You know,

774
00:40:05,076 --> 00:40:07,436
Speaker 2: everyone here is some sort of a beginner, and she

775
00:40:07,476 --> 00:40:10,396
Speaker 2: gave me some pointers and some tip and I started

776
00:40:10,396 --> 00:40:14,756
Speaker 2: playing with them, and I came home so happy that day.

777
00:40:14,916 --> 00:40:17,196
Speaker 2: It was half an hour that I played with them,

778
00:40:17,596 --> 00:40:21,036
Speaker 2: but I felt like so cared for. I felt like

779
00:40:21,076 --> 00:40:23,196
Speaker 2: I had so much fun. It was just like real

780
00:40:23,476 --> 00:40:27,196
Speaker 2: sense of joy. And to bring it full circle, this year,

781
00:40:27,796 --> 00:40:29,836
Speaker 2: I happened to be again shooting baskets and they were

782
00:40:29,876 --> 00:40:33,956
Speaker 2: setting up for pickleball unexpectedly, and I looked around and

783
00:40:34,036 --> 00:40:35,596
Speaker 2: learning from us, and I was like, I should ask

784
00:40:35,636 --> 00:40:37,956
Speaker 2: if I could play. And it turns out the same

785
00:40:37,996 --> 00:40:40,596
Speaker 2: woman who taught me to play a year ago was

786
00:40:40,676 --> 00:40:45,316
Speaker 2: there and she said, ah, you came back, and I said,

787
00:40:45,356 --> 00:40:47,676
Speaker 2: thank you for opening up this door from me right.

788
00:40:48,076 --> 00:40:51,796
Speaker 2: And so in these beautiful ways, sometimes we find connection

789
00:40:51,876 --> 00:40:55,156
Speaker 2: and unexpected places. Sometimes somebody is willing to extend a

790
00:40:55,156 --> 00:40:58,236
Speaker 2: hand and teach us. Sometimes it's just a presence of

791
00:40:58,276 --> 00:41:01,116
Speaker 2: other people, even if we don't exchange words. And those

792
00:41:01,116 --> 00:41:04,836
Speaker 2: have just been just beautiful, unexpected sources of community and

793
00:41:04,916 --> 00:41:05,556
Speaker 2: joy in my life.

794
00:41:06,516 --> 00:41:09,236
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for they This was such a pleasure.

795
00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:12,356
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad we did this. And I'll just say,

796
00:41:12,396 --> 00:41:16,316
Speaker 2: you know as we close that I just have so

797
00:41:16,396 --> 00:41:19,716
Speaker 2: much admiration for you and so much warmth that I

798
00:41:19,716 --> 00:41:23,036
Speaker 2: feel for you, and I so value our friendship. And

799
00:41:23,356 --> 00:41:26,036
Speaker 2: I think at a timeline, there's been so many people

800
00:41:26,036 --> 00:41:30,476
Speaker 2: are feeling drained and are feeling bereft of hope, you know,

801
00:41:30,556 --> 00:41:32,796
Speaker 2: as they look at all that's been happening in the

802
00:41:32,836 --> 00:41:35,636
Speaker 2: world for years now, growing polarization, over time, more and

803
00:41:35,716 --> 00:41:39,876
Speaker 2: more challenges, it's easy to turn to despair and to

804
00:41:39,916 --> 00:41:42,236
Speaker 2: feel like to hunker down and just say, you know what,

805
00:41:42,956 --> 00:41:45,596
Speaker 2: just got to look out for me, Like this is

806
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:47,956
Speaker 2: just too much everything that's happening in the world, and

807
00:41:47,996 --> 00:41:49,676
Speaker 2: for people who are listening or a film that I

808
00:41:49,756 --> 00:41:51,996
Speaker 2: get it, I understand it, and you're not a bad

809
00:41:52,036 --> 00:41:54,716
Speaker 2: person if you feel that way. But I do think

810
00:41:54,756 --> 00:41:57,556
Speaker 2: that the opportunity we have in the middle of this

811
00:41:57,636 --> 00:42:01,836
Speaker 2: despair is actually to recognize that the most powerful thing

812
00:42:01,876 --> 00:42:05,156
Speaker 2: we need to rebuild a foundation of well being in

813
00:42:05,196 --> 00:42:09,676
Speaker 2: our society our relationships with each other. And that can

814
00:42:09,796 --> 00:42:12,756
Speaker 2: start small. It can start with the small acts of

815
00:42:12,956 --> 00:42:16,316
Speaker 2: kindness and outreach that we do. It can start by

816
00:42:16,356 --> 00:42:19,596
Speaker 2: us showing up in other people's lives in small ways,

817
00:42:20,196 --> 00:42:23,676
Speaker 2: and if we understand them, then we realize that we

818
00:42:23,756 --> 00:42:27,196
Speaker 2: have more agency than we think. And it turns out

819
00:42:27,236 --> 00:42:30,876
Speaker 2: that the foundation for good policy, good programs, good investment,

820
00:42:30,956 --> 00:42:35,796
Speaker 2: good culture comes from relationships. It comes from a community

821
00:42:36,276 --> 00:42:38,636
Speaker 2: where people truly feel like they do know each other,

822
00:42:39,076 --> 00:42:41,716
Speaker 2: where they help each other, and where they find purpose

823
00:42:41,756 --> 00:42:44,356
Speaker 2: and lifting each other up. And so that's what gives

824
00:42:44,436 --> 00:42:48,156
Speaker 2: me hope. This is the broader revolution that I think

825
00:42:48,196 --> 00:42:52,796
Speaker 2: we can build a revolution to build community, to build connection.

826
00:42:53,516 --> 00:42:56,196
Speaker 2: We can build a people centered life today. And if

827
00:42:56,236 --> 00:42:59,236
Speaker 2: more of us do that, we will build community and

828
00:42:59,276 --> 00:43:01,396
Speaker 2: we will build a force that we need to really

829
00:43:01,396 --> 00:43:07,036
Speaker 2: help us heal.

830
00:43:23,156 --> 00:43:26,596
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks, so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode,

831
00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:29,556
Speaker 3: please follow a slight change of plans wherever you listen

832
00:43:29,556 --> 00:43:32,516
Speaker 3: to podcasts, or share this episode with someone you know

833
00:43:32,596 --> 00:43:35,596
Speaker 3: in your life who might be struggling with loneliness. By

834
00:43:35,636 --> 00:43:38,396
Speaker 3: the way, we're trying something new on the show. We're

835
00:43:38,396 --> 00:43:41,636
Speaker 3: now releasing full video versions of some of our episodes,

836
00:43:41,756 --> 00:43:45,116
Speaker 3: including this one. You can watch my conversation with Vivek

837
00:43:45,316 --> 00:43:49,356
Speaker 3: at pushkin dot fm slash slight Change. That's Pushkin dot

838
00:43:49,436 --> 00:43:52,556
Speaker 3: fm slash slight Change. I'd love to know what you

839
00:43:52,596 --> 00:43:54,236
Speaker 3: think of the video, and if you'd like to see

840
00:43:54,276 --> 00:43:56,876
Speaker 3: more of them. You can reach me on Instagram at

841
00:43:56,916 --> 00:44:00,516
Speaker 3: doctor Maya Schunker or send an email to slight Change

842
00:44:00,556 --> 00:44:06,196
Speaker 3: at pushkin dot fm. Join me next time when I

843
00:44:06,236 --> 00:44:09,396
Speaker 3: have the total honor of talking with Nobel Peace Prize

844
00:44:09,436 --> 00:44:14,116
Speaker 3: winner Malala Yusufsai. At the age of fifteen, she was

845
00:44:14,156 --> 00:44:17,116
Speaker 3: shot in the head by the Thaliban after speaking out

846
00:44:17,156 --> 00:44:19,116
Speaker 3: publicly for girls' education.

847
00:44:19,716 --> 00:44:23,036
Speaker 5: I was in Coma when I was seeing the world

848
00:44:23,116 --> 00:44:26,916
Speaker 5: define me. I was somehow now the bravest girl and

849
00:44:26,956 --> 00:44:30,156
Speaker 5: the most courageous gul and at fifteen, like, what do

850
00:44:30,236 --> 00:44:33,436
Speaker 5: you know about being brave and being courageous and what

851
00:44:33,476 --> 00:44:35,636
Speaker 5: do you know about being an activist?

852
00:44:36,116 --> 00:44:39,156
Speaker 3: That's next week on A Slight Change of Plans. I'll

853
00:44:39,156 --> 00:44:43,676
Speaker 3: see you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,

854
00:44:43,756 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 3: and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change

855
00:44:47,196 --> 00:44:51,276
Speaker 3: family includes our showrunner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate

856
00:44:51,356 --> 00:44:55,916
Speaker 3: Parkinson Morgan, our producers Brittany Cronin and Megan Lubin, and

857
00:44:55,956 --> 00:45:00,236
Speaker 3: our sound engineer Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our delightful

858
00:45:00,276 --> 00:45:03,516
Speaker 3: theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A

859
00:45:03,556 --> 00:45:06,716
Speaker 3: Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,

860
00:45:06,836 --> 00:45:10,236
Speaker 3: so big thanks to everyone there. Of course a very

861
00:45:10,276 --> 00:45:13,236
Speaker 3: special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight

862
00:45:13,316 --> 00:45:16,236
Speaker 3: Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Mayah Schunker.

863
00:45:16,476 --> 00:45:17,276
Speaker 1: See you next week.