WEBVTT - Think big about your future career, with Maya Gudka 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:15.920 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.200 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.960 my series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.000 manage their time and how all of us can take 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.400 our days from great to awesome. So I am excited 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.320 to welcome Maya Gudka to Before Breakfast today. Maya is 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.120 an executive coach who also works in leadership development with 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.120 many big corporations. So Maya, welcome to the show. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:42.680 Hi Laura, great to be here. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.440 Thanks so much for coming on. So tell our listeners 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.360 a little bit about yourself and your work. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.640 Yeah great. So, as you said, I'm an executive coach. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.960 I started life as an economist and I've spent most 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.000 of my career inside organizations. In the last few years 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.920 have the opportunity to go independent and cricket and so 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.800 what I do right now is I have a really 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.399 wide range of clients. I work with everyone from charity, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.320 so I work closely with a charity that supports social workers. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:19.279 Then with London Business School, I work with everybody from 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.319 those that have just graduated from their masters. So really 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.880 early on in their careers, all the way to senior 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.800 executives kind of at the top of their game. And 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.240 then it's super international as well. So I will be 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.120 coaching on any given day, I might be working with 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.720 somebody from Saudi Arabia, I might be working with somebody 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.160 from the Far East, somebody in China, so it's super 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.920 international from a global perspective. And then of course in London, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.480 I will be heading into people's offices as well as 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.680 working from home, coaching brands that we know, such as 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.680 in the UK, Marks and Spencer or maybe Sony Music 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.120 might be familiar to your listeners. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.920 Yes, absolutely, and so it sounds like if you're working 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.560 with lots of different people and lots of different places, 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.520 it might be hard to build any sort of routine. 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.440 But you do have a bit of a morning routine, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:08.800 don't you. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.240 Yes, I do, and I'm a before Breakfast listener, so 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.400 I have definitely read up on all sorts of listened 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.920 up on lots of great routines that I've heard here 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.760 and on Best of Both Worlds podcasts. So I really 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.919 enjoy that routine perspective, and right now what our routine 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.000 looks like because It's always shifting a little bit, isn't it. 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.240 But as we head into winter, I'm not really getting 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.480 up before seven, but that's the time that we do 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:33.920 need to be up. My daughter has to be up 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.120 at seven. She's out the door within half an hour. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.960 I'm not the default parent in the morning, though, so 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.280 sometimes I even get handed a coffee in bed by 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.640 my husband, which is high luxury, I know, but I 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.080 typically am able. 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.720 To enjoy my cup of coffee in the morning. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.160 And then because I'm not the default parent, I'm not 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.240 rushing around, but I will have one eye on what's 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.280 going on with my two kids. I've got an eight 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.600 year old and a ten year old. But really what 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.120 I'm thinking about at that point is what is my 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.119 hard stuff that I want to do today. So it's 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.720 really that swallow the frog stuff I'm not doing like 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.880 fancy journaling or anything like that. I really just want 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.800 to get the hard stuff out of the way, and 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.800 that can look really different on a day to day basis. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.200 So I will probably ask myself the day before, what 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.079 are you putting off here? Like what's not happening right now? 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.240 What is either demanding some extra motivation from you, some extracognition, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.680 so I then know that that's what I'm getting out 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.720 of the way first thing in the morning. And typically 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:31.799 once I've done that, I'm feeling pretty good and I've 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.359 got some momentum, and so I'll get a few other 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.720 things out of the way. Then once I'm feeling like 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.840 I've got that chunk out of the way, we're looking 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.320 at nine nine thirty, then I'm heading out the door 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.800 for a walk, could be a run, walk run. Sometimes 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.160 a friend will be dropping a kid off nearby and 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.360 they will join me, and then I'm back, have a 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.080 delicious coffee, get ready for my clients, and then from 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.720 eleven o'clock all the way up to four point thirty. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.320 If I'm working from home, I will be working with 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.200 clients all day. That's on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.120 I then have a no meeting day on Mondays and 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.640 not today because we're talking, but often I give myself 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.040 Thursdays off, so I've been working towards that this year. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:16.680 So yeah's excite. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.560 Yeah. I like the idea of planning a day off, 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:22.560 especially if you have a busy schedule the rest of 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.440 the week. So maybe you could talk about why someone 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.640 decides to work with a career coach and what they 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.400 might plan to get out of that sort of experience. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.640 Yeah, so I think it can depend. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.239 So if they've cut I'm often coming across people through 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.960 the corporate space, and so they might be either in 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.960 a leadership position, like a chunky leadership position, or they 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.200 might have missed out on one and that's why they 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:49.839 might have been recommended for coaching. 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:51.840 So they might be feeling a little. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.240 Bit stuck in their career as well as wanting to 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.039 develop skills that are directly applicable in their current roles. 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:00.839 Because I also have a podcasting coach, I also have 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.400 people coming through that, and again, people are looking for clarity. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.640 Often they have done the first era of their career. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.080 They've done the kind of straightforward steps, maybe met other 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.839 people's expectations, done the obvious stuff, and now they're at 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:19.440 a point where that next stage looks a little bit murkier. 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.479 They can't necessarily find the exact role model or the 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.240 exact path, and they're struggling to identify what that might 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.480 look like as well as then having. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.240 The self belief to take some of those steps forward. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.440 Yeah, and so one of the first things you do 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.680 with people when they come to you is some visioning 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.320 which might describe might sound a little bit ruud to people. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.520 But so what is practically does it mean to be 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.880 visioning when it comes to your career? Like, if I'm 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.599 doing this, what am I sitting down and doing? 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.760 Yeah, well, one thing you won't be doing, Laura, is 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.960 you won't be doing a vision board. So we're not 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.160 doing we're not doing the vision board. I would say 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.680 it's almost like the anti vision board because the thing 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.839 about my clients is that they're high achieving, they're quite practical, logical, analytical, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.799 and so that whole vision board stuff just hasn't worked. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:09.479 And in some ways that's good. In some ways that 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.920 is bad. What it does mean is they don't really 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.839 have that bigger picture of vision for their career because 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.280 they want to feel like it's a more robust approach. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.240 So we look at their strengths, not just their strengths, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.640 but their signature strengths. So when you combine a load 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.320 of strengths, you create some magic. What does that look like? 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:26.640 Where? 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:28.520 What does it feel like when they are using those 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.440 signature strengths tho zone of genius things which they feel 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.680 like they have an almost unfair advantage of using some 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.440 of cal Newbod's language. They're rare and valuable skills because 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.600 we also want those income generative lucrative skills a lot. 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.760 So we want to spend time identifying what this stuff 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.320 is and there is a little bit of manifestation in it. 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.440 I'm not going to not gonna lie, so we will also, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.560 but I do that in a way that feels good 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.280 for my corporate clients who are very much not going 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.920 to be falling for the woo rooster. They're setting them 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.080 up for a series of exercises that make them feel 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.400 like when they are now constructing that vision, it's solid. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.440 It's not just being plucked out of thin air. It's 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.240 not based on a few magazine cuttings. But then I 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.160 actually take them through a ideal mourning and I get 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:13.520 them to envision that. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.040 So yeah, and when you say, look at people's strengths 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.720 and how are you determining, how might somebody determine what 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.679 their particular unique strengths are. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.080 Yeah, So there's a few different ways. There's some lovely 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.160 assessments out there. So there's a strengths finder, there's a 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.680 gallop Strengths finder, and there's another positive psychology tool that 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.480 is freely available. I can send a link for that one. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.640 So there are some specific tools for those who want 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.080 that specificity, they want to feel like they're drawing from 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.040 an existing framework, but sometimes that's not necessary. Sometimes it's 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.520 just about asking a series of questions. Say, okay, where 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.800 are the areas where you get lit up? Where are 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.960 the areas that you find you're able to do things 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.320 more rapidly? You light up, you're energized by doing them 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.400 as well as often complemented. And one of the exercises 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:00.920 actually that I get people to do is go and 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.040 ask others what people think their strengths are. And I 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:04.920 will often have clients coming back to you saying, you 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.920 know what, that part was very useful because I probably 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.760 underestimated or took for granted some of my strength. So 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.920 having that outside perspective, often from people that are close 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.240 to you, that see you in a great light, but 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.000 a different light than you might see yourself, can be 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:19.040 really valuable as well. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.600 Yeah, and probably fun to go about asking people, Hey, 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.760 what do you see as my strongest my strongest suits exactly. Well, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.400 we're going to take a quick ad break and then 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:37.760 I will be back with more from Maya Guodca. Well, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.599 we are back. This is one of the longer episodes 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:45.280 of Before Breakfast where I am interviewing career coach Maya Goudca. 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.480 She is also, you know, been working in lots of 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.400 big organizations for many years and Maya one of the 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.000 things we talked about before this is that there are 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.360 systematic steps people can take to elevate their careers within 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.760 an organization. So you know, sometimes people are like, well, Okay, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.080 I'm going to find out my strength and I'm going 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.080 to decide I have to go completely switch careers, I 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.679 have to completely go do something else, which seems like 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.760 a lot of bother What can we do in the 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.480 next couple weeks or so to maybe take things to 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.439 the next level within what we're currently doing. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.080 Yeah, So I would say that that north star that 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.319 you would get from giving it having your own vision 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.360 is going to be valuable even when you then start 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.560 doing these systematic steps, because it will give you a 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.440 sense of Okay, who are those pivotal people that are 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.760 going to be super aligned with that vision that I 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.240 have for the future. So let's take that that we 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.560 have a bit of that north star going on, which 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:46.120 is why it's. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.199 The kind of the firstep in the process. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.960 But once you've got some sense of that, then I 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.840 talk about building up support for yourself in a long 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.360 term way inside an organization. I have a bit of 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.719 a spiral for that. So the first bit is understanding 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.440 your unique influencings. So often my clients will tell me 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.160 things like I'm not see sweet material, or I don't 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.960 have that natural charismatic leadership style. Actually, what I see 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.720 now is that there are so many different leadership styles. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.600 You've just got to own your own and feel comfortable 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.640 with it. So you might have received some feedback over 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.360 time telling you you're too challenging, you're too direct, or 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.000 you're too held back, or you're not the obvious party extravert, 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.079 and people will then feel like they have to put 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.920 a mask on. And what I say is, actually, no, 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.480 let's work with that style. Let's actually lean into your 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.440 original style and let's bring it out. Let's find ways 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.560 for you to use that inside the organization. You're going 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.120 to enjoy that more and it's going to feel more authentic, 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.280 be less exhausting for you. So we spend a bit 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.240 of time thinking about that. The next bit is then 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.840 having done a bit of vision work and thinking about 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.680 where you want to get to next, because you kind 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.760 of need to know that otherwise we're doing it at 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:52.760 a very tactical level. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.880 The next bit is thinking about, Okay, who are those. 0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:00.600 Pivotal people that are going to be really helpful unlocking 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.440 next steps in my career, in the success of my 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.720 team as well, so it's not just about you and 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.200 your career, but also like the success of the work 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.520 that you're doing inside the organization. And I get people 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:16.080 to jot down one to five such people, and I say, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.959 don't worry. Even if the relationship is like a zero 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.240 out ten right now, if they barely know you, that's 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.720 fine because they're not rushing this. You can start to 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.640 find slow ways, little ways to interact with them. 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:29.679 So we build up this picture. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.600 The next stage is then managing some of the more 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.000 tricky relationships, because as well as sometimes feeling like that 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.600 person might them not know them. Sometimes people feel like 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.080 I know somebody that could help me and not in 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.240 my career, but I don't have a good relationship with them. 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.880 In fact, like I think it's a little bit uncomfortable. 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.000 So we think about what we can do on that. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.480 But because we know which are those important relationships, we 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.839 focus the energy on the right ones. I then take 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.320 people through how to make a good ask inside an 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.160 organization because we have a vision, because we know what 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.040 it is that we want to achieve, We know what 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.400 sorts of asks that we want to make, whether that's 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.800 a promotionless a comment, a tool project, a case that 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.000 we want to make for the way that something should 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:13.600 be done. And I really encourage people, once they've got 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.240 some of those relationships in place, to spend time understanding 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.760 the drivers for you of those key sponsors that they 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.640 are asking us, Like what is important for those sponsors 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.120 right now? How can we position your ask in a 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.680 way that is going to really play to the interest 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.520 of the individual and their commercial interests also their human interests, 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.679 and how can we head off objections that they might have. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.360 So I go into a lot more detail with that process, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:39.760 so I can if you want to ask me more 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.240 about that, we can do that. But the final stage 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.360 is you kind of know your personal style, You've warmed 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.600 up a lot of key relationships, you know how to 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.800 make a case of things. The final bit then is 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.800 some of those more high stakes situations, whether that's like 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.600 the board meeting, a big presentation, a panel interview. That's 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.240 often the point at which people think they need coaching. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.720 But we've started a lot earlier, and at that stage 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.320 I take time with people to help them understand the 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.280 psychology of setting those up for success. How do you 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.679 contract at the beginning of one of those meetings? How 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:14.000 do you introduce yourself? And how do you if it's 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.480 something where you are going to know that there's going 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:17.880 to be quite a challenging discussion. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.320 How can you contract for things? 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.000 When I say that, what I mean is set the 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.880 tone for how people are going to manage that conversation 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.080 and keep an eye on that during the conversation so 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.480 that you're not hit left field or if the conversation 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.680 seems like it's going to completely out of control, you 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:35.400 have a way to. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:36.079 Bring that back. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.600 And that's my relational spiral. That's quite a lot there, 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.920 I know I thrown at you. There may be things 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:41.880 that you want to dive into. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.680 Well, let's talk about how you can start. You know, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.040 Let's say that somebody is someone you barely know and 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:55.360 you have identified them as a key stakeholder in raising 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.800 your profile within an organization, how might you are sent 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:04.920 to go about building that relationship? I mean, how can 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.880 you do that within the context of a big organization. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.840 So the first thing is that clients will often realize, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.680 once we've identified the person, that they do have some 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.680 opportunities to be in the orbit of that individual. It 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.680 could be an event, it could be after a big 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.120 meeting out, could be passing in the corridor, and so 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.440 actually just being aware of those opportunities and leaning into 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.000 them rather than perhaps sort of holding back, which is 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.080 what people can often do. So taking those opportunities, that 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.240 low hanging fruit to start to make the effort to 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.000 have those bigger conversations. So that's the first stage. I 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.640 always say, where are your opportunities, where's your low hanging fruit. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.800 Then typically there's going to be some sort of a 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.880 project interaction or some sort of a work type interaction 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.160 that you can have with them. It could be that 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.320 you're doing a certain project that is of interest to them, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.320 and actually then being able to say, by the way, 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.840 we should line up on that because I know you're 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.320 also considering X and Y, and so you can start 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.760 to build up the opportunity if it's not already there. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.600 To have more meaty conversations, and then ultimately as you're 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.960 starting to have more of those interactions, I always encourage 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.920 people to linger at the start of the conversation, hate 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.640 the time to say, how are you what's exciting for 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.320 you right now? Is it super crazy? Are you going 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.840 to get a chance to have a rest soon? And 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.400 just don't be put off if that is initially met 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.840 with a little bit of oh okay, or it's battered back, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.680 that's just an indication of that individual right that it's 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.120 not about you. You've not failed if you've leant into 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.560 a little bit more rapport building, and slowly people find 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.280 ways to build up those relationships. And then I always say, 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.040 at some point, if you're really struggling to get that 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:45.360 common ground and you've had a few small interactions, some 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.840 point you can say, I'd love to have a bit 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.280 of a mental conversation with you and have a coffee 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.600 and pick your brains about specific career things that I 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.240 think are you know one bish I could really get 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.120 a lot of insight from you, so then, you know, 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.280 But I wouldn't advise people do that straight away. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.520 Yeah, you want to warm them up first before you 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.560 leap into the ask of course, of course, all right, 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.320 Well we're going to take one more quick ad break 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:17.720 and then we will be back with Maya Gudka. Well, 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.720 I am back. This is one of the longer episodes 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.040 of Before Breakfast. I am talking to Maya Gudka, who 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.320 is an executive coach. She has worked in leadership development 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.840 with many big corporations. So we've been talking about how 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.600 to build your profile within an organization, how you might 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.440 create a contact that would help you know you move 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.000 through how you get to that ask. And then Maya, 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.120 you were talking earlier about these sort of high stake 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.239 situations like the big meeting where you're giving the big presentation, 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.160 and one of the things you do is work with 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.320 people about how to kind of enjoy that a bit more. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:52.960 I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.200 Yeah, So people will tell me that their worst fear 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.360 in those is being caught off God, is being are 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.880 something that they don't have an answer to. Is that 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.560 somebody else in the meeting is going to react in 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.720 a strange way and that's going to derail the whole thing. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.240 So these are some of the fears that people have, 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.879 but being caught off God is one of the biggest ones. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.200 So often once we can address that, then people can 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.000 relax into that setting a little bit more, And so 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.840 I help people have a bit of a toolkit around that. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:28.040 So what are you going to say if somebody catches 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.840 you off? God like, you can just have a toolkit 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.240 for that, which could be something like that is a 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.879 great question. At the moment, I don't have all the 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.639 data on that. What I would say, based on what 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.800 we've already done is X, but let's we will come 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.320 back to you because I think there's a little bit 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.639 more to that one, and just knowing that you have 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.360 some ways to respond. And over the years, I remember 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.560 just seeing those who are very expert at this doing 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.840 this sort of thing, and those were often the people 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.479 had that real confidence because they weren't afraid of what 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.000 was being thrown at them, so they could really be 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.159 there to enjoy the discussion and enjoy the debate. So 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.480 that's one really key way that I work with people 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.159 to overcome some of that so that they can relax 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:11.480 into the meeting a bit more. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.680 Just anticipate what's going to happen, and have some pocket 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.159 phrases that can even buy them a little time. 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.960 For something, yes, and also take the pressure off of 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.760 this idea that they have to have all the answers. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.360 I think it's really easy, and it's a real common 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.480 thing amongst my clients that perhaps at a certain stage 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.639 in their career they were relied on more for just 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.760 their knowledge, but they're now at stages where it's not 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:37.800 just about that, and it's often others that are going 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.320 to have the expertise. They no longer need to have 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.280 all the expertise, but they kind of need to be 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.120 able to marshal it and be able to have good, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.919 live in the moment conversations, even if they're not going 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:49.359 to be all right or all wrong. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.280 Yeah, all, Eric, Well, let's pivot from that to some 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.760 of the strategies you are using to make yourself more productive. 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.800 I wonder if you have you know, one or two 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.919 twos that have been working for you lately in terms 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.080 of getting more done. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:05.320 Yeah. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.320 This year, the biggest shift for me has come from 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.879 sorting my calendarly out. So I had a business coach 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.639 and she walked us through her week, her typical week, 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.800 and how she started her day a little bit later 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.600 when she was having those intense days, and I thought, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.040 you know what, I've sort of been doing this subconsciously. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.920 I've been angling for meetings to start at this time. 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.320 I've been creating space here. There's an automated tool that 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.520 does this. So if I've got a two hour coaching session, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.080 it will schedule for me a fifteen minute break before 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.960 and office so I can quickly whizz around the block, 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.439