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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I am your host, Jonathan Strickland, executive producer here at

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works, and I love all things tech. And

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Speaker 1: today we have a very special guest co host. I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that he would be joining us back on episode

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Speaker 1: one thousand. This is episode one thousand one. Welcome Ben

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Speaker 1: Bowland to the show. Thanks for having me or Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure to hang out with you on

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Speaker 1: Tech Stuff. And I'm starting to wonder, quick question, am

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Speaker 1: I the most frequently recurring out of yes, you are

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Speaker 1: most frequently recurring guest. If I were to, I can't

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Speaker 1: count Lauren because she was an actual co host, true,

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Speaker 1: So I have to just count the times that she's

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Speaker 1: been co host, post regular, gig, post host, post host.

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Speaker 1: So I believe, if I remember correctly, you were number one,

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Speaker 1: and right behind you was Joe McCormick. Oh yeah, actually

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Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin actually was right behind you. Then Joe McCormick

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Speaker 1: was after him. Oh man, Well, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: the world of both of those guys. I was interested

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Speaker 1: because we have you know, as as I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of our fellow Tech Stuff listeners know we interact

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Speaker 1: on numerous shows, and we always sometimes sometimes unplanned, sometimes

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Speaker 1: I've planned, and we always have a We always have

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Speaker 1: a heck of a time. And off air earlier, you

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Speaker 1: had invited me to come hang out with you as

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Speaker 1: we explore a topic that is of particular interest to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I host a show called Stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Yeah, exactly. Over an episode

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Speaker 1: one thousand, I talked about the scientific method, I talked

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Speaker 1: about skeptical thinking, critical thinking, that sort of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do an episode that kind of highlights

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Speaker 1: why that is so important, not just in tech, but

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Speaker 1: you know, in general. But because this is tech stuff,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna look at it from a tech perspective and

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Obviously. You guys

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Speaker 1: cover a lot of topics where there are varying degrees

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Speaker 1: of critical thinking that have been put toward them over

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Speaker 1: the years, from from getting down to debunking something all

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Speaker 1: the way to uh, we don't have enough information to

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Speaker 1: draw conclusions, which is totally valid by the way, You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't decry out if someone says, well,

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Speaker 1: I just don't know, because I just don't have the information.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a responsible thing all the way to

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Speaker 1: the credulous right, people buying into things without the sufficient

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Speaker 1: support necessary to justify that that perspective, And so we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk today about some stories in tech that fall

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Speaker 1: into that category. Now, some of the stuff we're gonna

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Speaker 1: cover our outright hoaxes or scams where the person who

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Speaker 1: was perpetrating it did so knowingly like they were actually

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Speaker 1: setting out to deceive, whether for entertainment purposes, as will

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Speaker 1: be our first entry, or for the filthy, filthy lucre

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Speaker 1: as I like to say, scratch the scratch, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: whether it was something where someone thought they were onto

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Speaker 1: something turns out there was nothing there, but they spent

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Speaker 1: a great deal of time pursuing it, sometimes even going

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Speaker 1: so far as to promote the pursuit of this thing

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Speaker 1: without first actually having ascertained that there really was something

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Speaker 1: to talk about. And it may very well have been

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Speaker 1: a completely honest mistake, an embarrassing one, but an honest one.

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Speaker 1: And the first one I wanted to talk about is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories in all of tech. Now, Ben,

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Speaker 1: you may not know this about me, uh, When I

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Speaker 1: was a kid. To the shock of no one who

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Speaker 1: has ever met me, I had a fascination with stage magic. No,

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Speaker 1: not you. You know I'm also a juggler, so I do.

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Speaker 1: I I'm glad you got in front of that before

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Speaker 1: I said it, because it's It's true folks, at pretty

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Speaker 1: much any time, and the how stuff works off as

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Speaker 1: you can walk by Jonathan, and if you happen to

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Speaker 1: have like three things, you could say, hey, do you

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Speaker 1: want to juggle these? I've asked you this multiple types.

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Speaker 1: You've never said no. Well, I considered a personal challenge.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I actually just the other day it was

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Speaker 1: juggling tangerines. Uh yeah, that just sort of happens. But

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Speaker 1: stage magic, stage magic. So I was fascinated by that

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Speaker 1: as a kid too. I love the theatricality of it.

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Speaker 1: I love the secretive nature of it. I mean, anytime

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Speaker 1: you have any kind of and you know this from

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Speaker 1: covering stuff they don't want you to know. Anytime you

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Speaker 1: have a group that has kind of an insular, quiet

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Speaker 1: society where they share information with each other but not

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Speaker 1: to anyone on the outside, that level of mystique is

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Speaker 1: incredibly attractive, right, Like you just sit there and think

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Speaker 1: I want to be in the room where it happens

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Speaker 1: if I recording lin Manuel Miranda. So this first example

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Speaker 1: is the Turk. This was ultimately, this was meant to

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Speaker 1: be a magic trick. It was not necessarily meant to

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Speaker 1: be just a scam, you know. It was meant to

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Speaker 1: be like an entertainment, a diversion. And it was the

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Speaker 1: brainchild of Wolfgang von Kimberlin, who is a civil servant

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Speaker 1: in eighteenth century Austria Hungary. He was in service to

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Speaker 1: the Empress Maria Teresa. So Maria Teresa, good old Mary.

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Speaker 1: She has a magician come by, you know, he pulls

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Speaker 1: some rabbits out of hats, saw some courtiers into whatever.

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Speaker 1: And she turns to Wolfgang. He says, oh, wolf wasn't

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Speaker 1: that just as the most entertaining magic you ever saw?

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Speaker 1: And wolf gangs like I could do better than that,

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Speaker 1: And she said really, yeah, yeah, and she said prove it.

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Speaker 1: You got six months. So he goes off and for

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Speaker 1: six months he's working on creating an illusion, and his

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Speaker 1: illusion is the Turk. Now, what it looks like is

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Speaker 1: a big cabinet. I'm talking like like something that you

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Speaker 1: would see like a sideboard. It's about waist high. It's

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Speaker 1: like a desk, yeah yeah, kind of like a desk,

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Speaker 1: and then behind it stands appears to stand anyway, a

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Speaker 1: human figure dressed as a turk. Dressed that way because

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Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds in Europe people thought that if

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Speaker 1: you were going to be doing magic, then you should

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Speaker 1: be dressed in Turkish attire, because that's where magic happened,

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Speaker 1: ye enlightened. So he's dressed as a turk. He even

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Speaker 1: had a long clay pipe in one hand upon first

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Speaker 1: being unveiled. And on the top of this cabinet or

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Speaker 1: dusk is a chessboard. Von Kimplin brought this out to

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Speaker 1: show off to the court of Teresa. And he opens

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Speaker 1: up the cabinet on one side. It reveals all these

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Speaker 1: different clockwork gears. He opens up the other side. There's

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Speaker 1: a little cushion in there, but there's not really anything else.

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Speaker 1: He even holds a candle on the opposite side of

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Speaker 1: the cabinet to let light show through, to show that

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Speaker 1: there's not a mirror or anything in the middle. Right,

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Speaker 1: closes it all up, puts the the cushion under one

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Speaker 1: arm of the turk, and then invites someone to come

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Speaker 1: up and play chess. So at that stage you get

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Speaker 1: one of the courtiers. He comes up there and plays

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Speaker 1: a game of chess, and within half an hour of

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Speaker 1: the turk moving on its own accord. This this automaton

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Speaker 1: clockwork man right, the the the semblance, the mechanical hand

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Speaker 1: is making the actual movement. Yes, it's actually moving. The

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Speaker 1: arm itself moves over, the hand grips the piece, moves

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Speaker 1: it to the appropriate square. And uh. The only instruction

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Speaker 1: Von Kimblin gave to the courtier was make sure whenever

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Speaker 1: you place the piece down, you do so squarely in

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Speaker 1: the center of the square you're moving to. Because I've

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Speaker 1: aligned this machine so that it will go precisely at

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Speaker 1: those those coordinates. You know, if you were offside, it

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Speaker 1: would miss because it's it's totally clockwork, and it makes

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Speaker 1: sense from the audience perspective. At this point they go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's how machines work. Yeah, well, I mean you think

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Speaker 1: about You're like, well, if you these days, we would

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Speaker 1: call it programming, right, you would program the machine to

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Speaker 1: be able to move a piece, but you wouldn't waste

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Speaker 1: time programming the machine to pick up places where a

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Speaker 1: piece would not be right, So the Turk is victorious.

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Speaker 1: It wins, and it's able to beat most people within

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Speaker 1: half an hour. It would go on to great acclaim

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Speaker 1: both in Europe and beyond. Uh von Kemplin would eventually,

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Speaker 1: you know, he would pass away, and it ended up

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Speaker 1: in the belongings of another entrepreneur who used it to

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Speaker 1: bring it to exhibitions and to kind of make a

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Speaker 1: almost like a like a pt Barna mess kind of

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Speaker 1: show up out of it. And Uh famous people played

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Speaker 1: against the Turk. Ben Franklin played a game, did not win.

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Speaker 1: Um Napoleon Bonaparte famously tested the turk. So the story

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Speaker 1: with Bonaparte is that he played a game and purposefully

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Speaker 1: made an illegal move and just testing to see what

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Speaker 1: is this turk going to do if I make an

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Speaker 1: illegal movie a couple of times, three times and on

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Speaker 1: the third time, the turk, which could also move its

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Speaker 1: eyes back and forth, it can move its head a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and then it can move one arm, uh

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Speaker 1: swept its arm across the board, knocking all the pieces off.

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Speaker 1: And then of course there's like there's that you can

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Speaker 1: just imagine, like if you're thinking of it in movie terms,

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Speaker 1: there's the hush that falls over the crowd, and everyone's

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Speaker 1: waiting to see what happens, and the Napoleon just starts laughing,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's like, oh ha ha, oh, it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: funny when it was totally not funny a second earlier,

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Speaker 1: like no one was sure someone was gonna lose their head.

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Speaker 1: So other people who who witnessed it would include Edgar

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Speaker 1: Allan Poe, who was convinced that there was a human

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Speaker 1: controlling this clockwork mechanism, but he didn't He wasn't sure

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Speaker 1: exactly how. At first, he started to think about how

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Speaker 1: it might be possible, even drew up some uh some

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Speaker 1: pamphlets about it, and more or less we believe he

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Speaker 1: got it, you know, kind of right. He figured it out,

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Speaker 1: figured it out more or less it became the basis

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Speaker 1: of detective stories in a way, his approach. But ultimately, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was a trick. It was not clockwork. It was

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Speaker 1: not some sort of device that you would wind up

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Speaker 1: and then it could actually witness a move process of

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Speaker 1: information and then make a move on its own. It

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Speaker 1: was more or less a very complex puppet. And from

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Speaker 1: what we can gather based upon the drawings von Kimblin

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Speaker 1: left behind uh, the operator. It was probably hidden in

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the cabinet. It was like a false bottom. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you have a very thick bottom of this cabinet

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Speaker 1: which was on castors, so you could roll it everywhere

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Speaker 1: and no one knew how heavy it was. And then

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Speaker 1: once you close the cabinet up, they could slide out

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Speaker 1: from underneath and then operate all the pieces from inside.

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Speaker 1: They use levers to move the arms. I'm not entirely

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Speaker 1: certain what the mechanism was so that they could actually

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Speaker 1: view where the pieces were on the board. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the one of the most interesting parts. And it has

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Speaker 1: to be I don't know, in the in the reproduction

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Speaker 1: pictures we can see it feels like it would. The

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Speaker 1: simplest answer would be some sort of one way mirror

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Speaker 1: kind of thing where they could see which pieces. The

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Speaker 1: only problem there is that, I mean, you have to

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Speaker 1: pay a really close attention and make sure you know

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Speaker 1: which pieces what right, and how can you differentiate you know,

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Speaker 1: if they all look like just a peg, yeah, a peg?

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Speaker 1: Would there be some sort I was thinking about this.

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Speaker 1: Would there be some sort of marking on the bottom

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Speaker 1: that they could see. I mean, like if you are

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Speaker 1: a true chess like genius. You could just keep track

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Speaker 1: of which piece was moved, and then you know what

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Speaker 1: piece it was because you know what the starting position was.

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Speaker 1: Although in more recent demonstrations, the way this has worked

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Speaker 1: is John Gone, who created a a replica we just mentioned.

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Speaker 1: He has a replica of this that's in Los Angeles, California.

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Speaker 1: He apparently has a workshop that is phenomenal to visit

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Speaker 1: and no, you can't go there, and I'm so upset.

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Speaker 1: I'm so upset because it looks amazing, but it looks

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Speaker 1: like it's an invitation only kind of thing. Like it's

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like a magician's museum, not a not

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Speaker 1: a museum of magic, but a museum for magicians kind

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Speaker 1: of in the crowd, I think, because he designs illusions

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Speaker 1: for some of the most famous magicians out there, like

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Speaker 1: Chris Angel and David Copperfield and folks like that. Freak. Yes,

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Speaker 1: John Gone. John Gone has designed some of the most

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Speaker 1: elaborate illusions. But he built this replica and in his

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Speaker 1: versions where he's shown it off, he's had a book

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Speaker 1: of famous end games and a and he invites a

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Speaker 1: chess master to come up and play against the Turk

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Speaker 1: and the chess master reaches in, looks at the book,

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Speaker 1: picks out an end game, they set up the board

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Speaker 1: for that particular end game, and they play from there. Well,

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Speaker 1: if it's if it's an end game that's out of

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Speaker 1: a book, and I'm assuming you're not doing a forced

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Speaker 1: uh choice upon the chess master, they have open choice

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Speaker 1: because there are magic tricks where yeah, it's a card

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Speaker 1: force is a well known way. I mean, there's lots

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Speaker 1: of different ways of doing this, but it's a well

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Speaker 1: known way of making it look like someone's chosen a card,

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Speaker 1: but in fact they've picked the card you've already chosen

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Speaker 1: for them. Makes makes finding a card a lot easier

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Speaker 1: when you already know what it's going to be before

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Speaker 1: the trick even starts. So I don't know if it

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Speaker 1: was like that or not, but if presuming it wasn't,

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Speaker 1: then there must be some way to to see the

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Speaker 1: board beyond just uh knowing which knowing which squares are occupied,

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Speaker 1: because if it's an end game, that means not all

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Speaker 1: the pieces are already are there, right, only certain pieces

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Speaker 1: are going to be there, and they're not at their

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Speaker 1: starting position exactly, So then you would have to have

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Speaker 1: some way of being able to see what the board was.

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Speaker 1: Now you might have some sort of periscope kind of

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Speaker 1: thing built into the figure so that you're using mirrors

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Speaker 1: to get a look that way. But no matter what,

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Speaker 1: it must have also taken quite a bit of dexterity

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Speaker 1: to move the arm, like I just think of the

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Speaker 1: claw games from like Amusements, where it's something along those

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Speaker 1: lines of trying to move the arm exactly because based

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Speaker 1: upon the images, the the inner workings of the Turk

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Speaker 1: were in fact, uh like cat gut ropes and and

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Speaker 1: pulley systems and things. It wasn't It wasn't like it

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Speaker 1: was a wooden suit that you could somehow slip into.

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Speaker 1: And the quarters are cramped in that cabinet even if

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Speaker 1: they get out of the false bottom. In makes me

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Speaker 1: think that it makes me imagine that there must have

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Speaker 1: been some down on his or her luck chess master

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Speaker 1: who accepted this strange occupation. And and the other thing

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Speaker 1: that's entirely fascinatings that even today, to your point, we

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Speaker 1: don't know everything about the Turk. We just know that

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Speaker 1: we know that there's a hoax, right, And I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you were those gears entirely ornamental. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure most of them were. Actually, I think most of

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Speaker 1: the gears were meant to give it this look of clockwork. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened. It's it's yeah, it's all the it's

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Speaker 1: it's scientific theater is what it is. You know, we

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Speaker 1: think of like like security theater. You know, the idea

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Speaker 1: that you put on the appearance of security and that

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Speaker 1: will be enough to mollify people into thinking they are

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Speaker 1: in a secure situation. Same sort of thing with with us.

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Speaker 1: You have the trappings of authority, and that convinces people,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, this is on the up and up

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Speaker 1: and again that is a way of disarming people from

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Speaker 1: being critical thinkers. Right. Um. The original Turk, by the way,

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Speaker 1: was destroyed in the fire in the eighteen hundreds, which

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Speaker 1: is why we have to you know, there's a replica

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Speaker 1: and it's based off of the what little what few

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Speaker 1: designs managed to survive. But uh, it's it's sort of

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Speaker 1: a best guess that that's how the original worked. Um.

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Speaker 1: John Gon did say that von Kemblin was incredibly prescient

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Speaker 1: and created elements of illusion that a lot of historians

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Speaker 1: didn't think were really invented until a century after that.

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Speaker 1: So that's pretty pretty interesting that the guy. The guy

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Speaker 1: really was a pretty clever inventor. And um, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: again I don't necessarily believe on Kemberlin himself wanted to

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Speaker 1: put the turk forward as a legitimate this is a

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Speaker 1: clockwork chest lair. It was more like this is more

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Speaker 1: in the style of a magic trick, where you don't

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that it's a trick because that takes the theatricality

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Speaker 1: out of it. But you're also not trying to go

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Speaker 1: around claiming that you can build clockwork people. Right this

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Speaker 1: this feels like it was much more of a a

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Speaker 1: coup in the court for him, you know, just it's

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Speaker 1: an attempt to show off his intelligence and acumen. And

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Speaker 1: nobody is genuinely convinced that there is some sentient thing

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Speaker 1: made out of clockwork gears that is better at chess

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Speaker 1: than you meet bag. I mean, it's it's a possibility.

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Speaker 1: Some of them were only because clockwork was such a

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Speaker 1: relatively new type of technology in I didn't think about that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you're right, you know, you're also talking about the

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Speaker 1: very just before the the Industrial Revolution, right, Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: post Renaissance, it's no enlightenment. You're talking about people wondering

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Speaker 1: where where the limits are to ingenuity. And when you

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Speaker 1: have interesting inventions being proposed and coming out so rapidly

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Speaker 1: in such a such a compact timeline, then you could

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Speaker 1: kind of see where someone could be a little credulous

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Speaker 1: and think maybe there, maybe someone did figure out away. Like,

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Speaker 1: after all, chess is based off math, right, so if

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Speaker 1: it's just if it's just processing math and someone Now

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, this is a hundred years before the

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Speaker 1: difference engine or the analytical engine, it's before Babbage. But

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Speaker 1: still you can kind of imagine that sort of possible

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Speaker 1: theory going in someone's head, didn't he He did, And

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Speaker 1: in fact, uh, he also was pretty darn sure the

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Speaker 1: turk was being controlled by a person. However, he thought, huh,

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Speaker 1: a machine that can process information. That sounds interesting. And

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Speaker 1: of course Babbage would later go on to first pose

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Speaker 1: the difference Engine, which would eventually be abandoned, and then

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Speaker 1: he would propose an even more glorious machine, the analytic Engine,

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Speaker 1: that would would have been the first mechanical computer if

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Speaker 1: it had ever been completed during his lifetime. And of

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Speaker 1: course I can't mention Babbage without also mentioning Ada Lovelace,

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Speaker 1: Lord Byron's daughter. Ada Lovelace, was a mathematician who worked

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Speaker 1: with Babbage, and she even proposed using his machine to

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Speaker 1: uh to use mathematics to express different ideas, not just

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Speaker 1: mathematical ideas, but using math to express things like poetry

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Speaker 1: and music and imagery. She was talking about coding in

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Speaker 1: a time well before electro mechanical computers were created, let

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Speaker 1: alone electronic computers. So phenomenal people, and you could argue

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Speaker 1: that at least some of their ingenuity was sparked by

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Speaker 1: this fake clock. We're a chess player, and lest we forget,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we need to emphasize this one more

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Speaker 1: time before we move on. One of the great things

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Speaker 1: about the Turk is it was not made for malevolent

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00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,479
Speaker 1: purposes it was It was not made It was not

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Speaker 1: made to to steal money. It was not made as

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Speaker 1: a cash grab type thing, unlike some of the other

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Speaker 1: ones we're gonna be talking about. One last thing I

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Speaker 1: will mention before we transition to one that definitely was

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Speaker 1: more of a cash grab. Uh So, the Turk also

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Speaker 1: lends its name to something that Amazon has. Amazon Amazon

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Speaker 1: has the turk. They have the mechanical turk, which is

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Speaker 1: uh Amazon's the turk is where they use human beings

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Speaker 1: to process request certain information because it just from a

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Speaker 1: financial side, made more sense to employ human beings to

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Speaker 1: do the work than to create computer systems that could

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Speaker 1: do the work and be cause it's humans who are

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Speaker 1: doing the work, but it's through an interface that is

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Speaker 1: more commonly associated with things like search engines. They call it,

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Speaker 1: they refer to the turk because it's actually a human

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00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: that's that's powering the thing, which I thought was pretty clever. Now,

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Speaker 1: the first one we're gonna talk about where someone's actually

359
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 1: trying to scam folks would be Charles Redheffer and his

360
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: proposed perpetual motion machine. Now, perpetual motion is let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's just go ahead and shoot this route of the gate.

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Speaker 1: Perpetual motion is, as far as we can tell, impossible

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Speaker 1: based upon our our knowledge of the laws of thermodynamics.

364
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: So with the laws of thermodynamics, that that explains things like, uh,

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00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: energy within a system. Right, if you have a system,

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Speaker 1: a closed system, so there's nothing coming into it, there's

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00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: nothing going out of it, no energy is going to

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00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: be created or destroyed. It cannot You can't just create

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Speaker 1: or dist energy. You can convert from one kind of

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00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: energy to another. You can convert matter into energy and

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00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: vice versa if you have you know, like nuclear bombs

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Speaker 1: and stuff. But in a system, you can't create a

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Speaker 1: destroy energy. If you set a system into motion, Let's

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Speaker 1: say let's just a wheel. Let's say we've got a

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Speaker 1: wheel on an axle. We start spinning that wheel. That

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00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: wheel is eventually gonna stop spinning. The reason being is

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00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: that without additional energy put into that wheel, friction is

378
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Speaker 1: going to result in more energy being lost to the system.

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Speaker 1: Then is needed to keep the wheel spinning. Right, because

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00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna have pieces rubbing against each other, that's friction.

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00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: You end up losing energy in the form of heat. Again,

382
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: energy is not destroyed, it's just converted from kinetic energy

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Speaker 1: into heat energy. First and second law the dynamics. Yes,

384
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: so the heat dissipates. That means you have less energy

385
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: in your system than when you started because your system

386
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: is not truly closed. It's open, it's open to everything, right,

387
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: So eventually the wheel will slow down and stop because

388
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: of this drain on the system. So Charles Redheffer says, hey,

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Speaker 1: I made one. I made a perpetual motion machine that

390
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: if you if you start this sucker, it will just

391
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: keep on going forever and ever and ever. And that

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00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: flies in the face of the laws of thermodynamics. Now, if,

393
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: by the way, you can lose energy, not just through friction,

394
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: you can lose energy through sound too. Sound is energy, right,

395
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: Sound is vibration. So if you have anything vibrating against

396
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: anything else, that's energy that you're losing from your your system.

397
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: If you have your your system hooked up to something

398
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: like a battery or a power outlet, congratulations, that's not

399
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: a perpetual motion machine because it's continuously drawing energy from

400
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: a source. Right, energy is it is? It's it's more

401
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: finite with a battery than with a power outlet, but

402
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: ultimately it's finite with both. I mean even so, this

403
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: is the part of the conversation where some of us

404
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: in the audience might say, well, what about something that's

405
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: solar powered. Technically, also speaking on a grand scale, solar

406
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: power is also drawing from a finite energy, So it's

407
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: not even you don't even have to go technically. There's

408
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: a thing called nighttime. You're not drawing solar energy then

409
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, but that's but in those cases it can't

410
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: be perpetual motion because it's actually drawing energy from an

411
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: outside source, an open system. At that point, unless you're

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00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: arguing my system also includes the sun. That's my perpetual

413
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: motion machine. I've patented it. No one else can use

414
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: it now. Also, would you like to buy a bridge

415
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: it's on the sun? So red Heffer, he claims he's

416
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: made a perpetual motion machine, and he puts it on

417
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: display in Philadelphia, and he starts trying to get people

418
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: to invest money, saying, hey, you know, I think we

419
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: can use this for lots of different purposes. He would

420
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: bring people up to his workshop in Philadelphia, show it

421
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: off and say like, hey, don't you want to give

422
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: me some money so that I can continue my work

423
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: and we can transform the world. Now, again, this is

424
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, this is again Industrial Revolution. A

425
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: lot of people are wondering what might be possible. So

426
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: he was able to get quite a few people booled

427
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: on here. But there were some skeptics who were saying,

428
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: you know, this doesn't sound right, this sounds hinky. Also

429
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: he's charging admission to yes, like like, look at it

430
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: from like through a barred window or something, although he

431
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't charge the ladies, well, or he wouldn't charge them

432
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: as much, classic Red Heifer, right, yeah, oh that's classic Redeffor.

433
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: So he would charge people to come up and take

434
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: a look at And eventually, as he's showing this off,

435
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: people are starting to ask some pretty tricky questions and

436
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: he thinks, you know what, I think I have a

437
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: good thing going, but it's not. It's it's limited, so

438
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: I better get out with it. Getting is good and

439
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: it relocates to New York City. This reminds me of

440
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: the mono rail episode of The Simpsons. It's very much

441
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: like the monorail episode. I hear those things are awful loud.

442
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: It flips softly as a cloud. So so yeah, so

443
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: he goes to he goes to New York City and

444
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: he continues this perpetual motion machine. It's it's it's a

445
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: larger version of the one that he showed off in

446
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: Philadelphia and the one in Philadelphia. Apparently the perpetual motion

447
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: machine was connected to a smaller device, and he claimed

448
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: the perpetual motion machine was powering the smaller device that

449
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: was essentially not just perpetual motion, but free energy like

450
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: it was it was actually generating enough energy to power

451
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: a separate device. But a journalist looking at said, hang on,

452
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: that device looks like it actually from the wear and

453
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: tear I can view from where I'm at, it looks

454
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: like that little device is actually providing the energy to

455
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: move the big perpetual motion machine. It's it's the relationship

456
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: is the opposite of what we've been told. And at

457
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: something is going pouring energy into the small thing, which

458
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: is then making the big thing turn. And that was

459
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: too close to the truth. So Red Haffer moved up

460
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: to New York City. But then he decided to go bigger.

461
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: He decided not to use the same methodology. And he

462
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: thought he was in pretty good shape. He was ready to,

463
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: uh to defy people, to say, hey, you're you're you've

464
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: got Shenanigans going on. And then Robert Fulton paid him

465
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: a visit. You're getting to my favorite part of this story.

466
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: But so Robert Fulton, um engineer, inventor, very smart man.

467
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: He says, this sounds like a lot of hogwash to me.

468
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: So he goes to see what the heck is up

469
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: and he sees that, uh, he sees that this device

470
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: is moving, and he suspects that the machinery to make

471
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: it move would perhaps be located outside of the room

472
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: they are in, that it, in fact, was a very

473
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: complicated system. So he starts looking around and he discovers

474
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: that there is a chord of cat gut that connects

475
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: the device running up through a beam in the wall upstairs.

476
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: And so then he decides, well, let's go see what's upstairs,

477
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: and he goes on upstairs, and there he finds, according

478
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: to the story, a cranky old man. And I mean

479
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: that literally because he's turning a crank with one hand,

480
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: well just casually eating some bread with his other hand. Yeah,

481
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: because he's there all day. Yeah, he can't you know,

482
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: he doesn't get a lunch break. He's got to keep

483
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: turning that crank. So that literally, this perpetual motion machine

484
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: was in fact just a hand cranked device being powered

485
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: by a grouchy old guy in the attic. And uh

486
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: so Red Hefford eventually was he had to close up there,

487
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: but he wasn't done. In eighteen twenty, he was able

488
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: to secure a patent for a perpetual motion machine. Because

489
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: news flash, folks, uh there have been numerous occasions where

490
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: people have submitted patent applications for for perpetual motion machines

491
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: or free energy or free energy. That's another good example.

492
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: And the patent office, bless their hearts, Sometimes they get

493
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: claims that are apparently beyond there there ken they are

494
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: unable to grasp the nature of it, and so they

495
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: end up granting a patent for something that should not

496
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: have been patented because it was impossible. And that seems

497
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: to be the case here. However, we don't really know

498
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: because that guess what it just like the turk that

499
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: patent burned up in a fire. There was a big

500
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: fire in the U. S. Patent Office in eighteen thirty six,

501
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: and all the patents that had been filed there were

502
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: essentially lost, including this one, which was in the like

503
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: it was still somewhere like in patent three thousand, like

504
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: that's how early it was in the patent system. Like

505
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: we're in the millions now. So and also WHOA, we

506
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves what happened what happened to red Heifer.

507
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, he kind of disappeared on the face

508
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: of the earth. I really did search to to see

509
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: if there were any record I could find. You know

510
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: what I would like to speculate, Jonathan, What's I'd like

511
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: to speculate that he changed his name. That's the most

512
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: realistic explanation. I mean, you know, if we're talking, this

513
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: is definitely before a surveillance state, right, So maybe he

514
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: changed his name to UH. I don't know rourals Chad

515
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: Hoffer and strike out for California sounds good to me.

516
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: You know what also sounds good to me, Ben taking

517
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 1: a taking a quick break to thank our sponsor. Alright,

518
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: we're back, and then we have another similar story to

519
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: the one we just told. We just talked about a

520
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: perpetual motion machine. Let's talk about UH, a machine that

521
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: to this day, there are still people who believe that

522
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: this device in fact worked the way the inventor claimed

523
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: it worked, even though skeptical thinking would lead us to

524
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: believe that such claims were probably nonsense. I also want

525
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: to advance one thing, just one note. Sure that's occurred

526
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: to me. This example and our previous two cases all

527
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: have this running thread of Pennsylvania. Have you noticed I well,

528
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: because the turk burned down in Philadelphia? Yes, right, yeah?

529
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: And then Red Hefford did his his demonstrations in Philadelphia. Yeah,

530
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is a wacky place. People who are familiar with

531
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: a character called The Quister might know that I went

532
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: through a whole bunch of these and dismissed them as

533
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: possible Quister segments for a Philadelphia planned segment um because

534
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: there's so much weird stuff. But then I got to

535
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 1: use it anyway because you're on this show, so yeah,

536
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: this is okay. Is this where some of this is

537
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: coming from? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely. When I was when I

538
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: was researching for a Philadelphia segment for for The Quister,

539
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, wait, that's at doesn't

540
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: go really well, because I had already planned also on

541
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: doing one about hoaxes and flemploy this this example is

542
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: particularly fascinating to me because I was pretty unfamiliar with it. Yes,

543
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: this is the Keiley Motor Company and the founder was

544
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: John Ernst Worrel Keeley, who was born in eighteen thirty

545
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: seven in Pennsylvania. And uh. Something that should immediately set

546
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: up warning flags in anyone's mind is when you find

547
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: out that a job someone has held in their previous

548
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: experience included Carnival Barker, your your Carney prejudice is tearing

549
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: this company apart. I listen, I'm with it, in for it.

550
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: I I know, I know my, I know myke My

551
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: Carney lank lingo. Um. Yeah. So carnivals are really all

552
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: about this idea of creating an illusion and an experience,

553
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: and there's always something there's a different reality that's underneath

554
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: that experience, right, But that's all about the the the

555
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: allure of the carnival. There's something not just magical about it,

556
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: but kind of almost like dangerous about it. Right. Well,

557
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: I would argue that kind of experience if you are,

558
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: in fact someone who has worked in one of those

559
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: sort of carnivals. But be it's ideal for setting you

560
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: up to do things like run a run a scam

561
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: because you start to learn what people are looking for.

562
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: All you have to do is play to the stuff

563
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: that people want to believe in, because if they want

564
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: to believe in it, then you don't have to try

565
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: as hard to to keep the inner workings of what

566
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: you're doing secret. Right, they are already they're ready to

567
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: buy in. They want to go on that ride. It's

568
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: like people who go to a magic show. Most people

569
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: who go to a magic show apart from you know,

570
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: occasional jerks. They go there because they want to be entertained,

571
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: they want to be fooled, they want to have the

572
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: illusion that's something that is impossible actually happened while they

573
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: were there, and they saw it, and it's amazing. That's

574
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: what scam artists count on too. They said, well, if

575
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: you know what people want to hear and you tell

576
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: them that, you can get them to pay you a

577
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: lot of money. Important difference being that scam artists are

578
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: doing non consensual works of allusion. Yes, and they are, uh,

579
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, using any method they can to pull the

580
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: wool over the eyes of their their marks, to use

581
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: carne lingo. So he decided to create what he claimed

582
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: was a special engine, which he gave various names throughout

583
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: its life. The hydro pneumatic pulsating vacuum engine is a

584
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: good one, the Liberator, which just sounds like a firework

585
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: in the US. Yeah, I also love Okay, so I

586
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: love this. When you were informing me about a couple

587
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: of these things off air. What I love about this

588
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: one is we're getting straight into the pseudoscience jargon, which

589
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: is my favorite part of these sorts of inventions. It

590
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: makes me also think a lot about steam pop. You know,

591
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: one of the things that I love about people who

592
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: are big into steampunk, it's not as like it kind

593
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: of went through it's heyday. There's still people who are

594
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: very much fans of it, but it's not nearly as

595
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: omnipresent as it was maybe a decade ago. But one

596
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: of the things I loved is that people would spend

597
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: so much time and effort coming up with fanciful names

598
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: to describe their technologies, and ether is almost always in

599
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: their dynamo might be in there somewhere, but it's a

600
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: way of using these these vaguely scientific sounding terms and

601
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: trying to give legitimacy to something just based upon a name. Uh.

602
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: He had claimed that he had created some sort of

603
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: motor that could run off of a mysterious energy that

604
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: had to do with molecular interactions. He said that, you know,

605
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: water would supply the molecules, and then you would use

606
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: these vibrations from like tuning forks and stuff to transform

607
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: the molecules in some way that would give off this

608
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: ethereal energy that his motor would be able to harness.

609
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: And so he wouldn't hold demonstrations of his motor and

610
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: his workshop, and he had sort of like a what

611
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: he thought of as a working prototype that could actually

612
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: do work. Like, this thing can create mechanical action and

613
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: it can do stuff, but itself is not practical for

614
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: a product yet. It's just it just shows the fundamentals

615
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: of the science, is what he would argue. So he

616
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: needed investments in order to be able to go into

617
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: the next phase and actually produce something that could be

618
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: used for practical applications. And he got a lot of

619
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: investments because people wanted to believe in it. People like

620
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: Ast poured money into this. Yeah, so you had you

621
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: had some very famous, very rich people saying, well, if

622
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: this is true, if you can create and a motor

623
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: that runs off water, then that is transformative. It'll it'll

624
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: be an enormous boon. It's like solving the energy crisis

625
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: before we can have an energy crisis. And so they

626
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: started investing in money. And by the eighties, investors were

627
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: starting to get a little antsy because they were not

628
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: seeing any progress being made in producing an actual practical motor.

629
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: And Keiley was so good at getting people to believe

630
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: that the thing he had made was working that it

631
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: just seemed like it was just around the corner having

632
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: a product right based off that same thing, because he

633
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: had already proven, according to him, the principles of what

634
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: he said was going on, and so if in fact

635
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: what he was saying was true, he should be able

636
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: to create a practical product. But they didn't see any

637
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: So Chilly kept on holding demonstrations, but he never produced

638
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: anything that could be actually put to work. Um he

639
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: would just you know, show this device moving apparently on

640
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: its own accord through pouring water into a thing vibrating

641
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: a tuning fork, and then it starts moving, but there

642
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: was never any indication that there was like something that

643
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: would ever actually come out of it. And then he

644
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: died having never produced anything that was really working, and

645
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: some of his investors, we're really kind of wondering what

646
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: happens now. Because the Keiley Motor Company still existed, there

647
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: were still people working there, but Keely himself was dead.

648
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: The Philadelphia Press held an investigation and they discovered evidence

649
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: in his workshop that suggested he had been using a uh.

650
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: He had been using compressed air to create the force

651
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: to move the machinery, not this vibration water molecular thing,

652
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: and the Keiley Motor Company denied that that was true.

653
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: They said, no, no, no, this is that the investigation

654
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: is wrong. But seeing as how no one has ever

655
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: created an etheric motor based off his claims, uh, I

656
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: think that is pretty good evidence to suggest that perhaps

657
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: the more logical explanation that there was a compressed air

658
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: uh device that was providing the mechanical power makes more sense.

659
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: I mean Occam's razor, right. What's more likely that something

660
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: we know works provided the action, or something that no

661
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: one has been able to prove even exists did it.

662
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: Well that's the problem too, because you know, we don't

663
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: want to burst everybody's bubble here. But the big problem

664
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: with this claim is that after his death there was

665
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: unfettered access to his workshop, which means that if such

666
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: a thing existed at all, in any shape, fashion or form,

667
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: it would be there. Now that wasn't There's still people

668
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: to this day who say that we're just on the

669
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: verge of getting one of these motors working. I was

670
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: about to say, get this motor running head out on

671
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: the highway, but uh yeah, So there are people who

672
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: are still devotees of Keely despite the the investigation. You

673
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: know what, I would love to see a working model.

674
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: I would love to, Yeah, text stuff at COM. We'll

675
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: put it right next to the giant wooden gear that

676
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: we have that we haven't yet uh haven't yet yet decoded.

677
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: Our next one is one you've heard of N rays before, right,

678
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: or did so Renee Blondlow um in nine we had

679
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: this physicist, Renee Blondlow who was experimenting with X rays

680
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: and he was pretty sure while he was doing the

681
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: experiment that's something impossible had happened. So he had X

682
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: rays and he was firing them through an a quartz prism,

683
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: and the quartz prism should not have been able to

684
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: redirect X rays. He had he had already done the

685
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: same experiment using the electric field, which could deflect X rays,

686
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: Like he was. He was specifically kind of doing a

687
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: control group kind of thing. So he has a detector

688
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: on one side, and the detector has a little metal

689
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: filament that lights up if X rays strike it. Okay,

690
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: So he shoots at the electric field. The electric field

691
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: deflects some of the X rays. The detector lights up,

692
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: and he says, ha, so electric fields can deflect X rays. Well,

693
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: now I'm just gonna do it with this quartz reflector,

694
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: which shouldn't X rays should just go right through it.

695
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: They bounced off of it, and so he's doing this.

696
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: But he said, from the corner of his eye he

697
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: saw the filament light up, so just out of the

698
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: periphery of his vision, and so he said, well, X

699
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: rays wouldn't do that, So therefore I must have discovered

700
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: a brand new type of radiation. It can't be X rays,

701
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: but it made the filament light up, so it behaves

702
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: sort of like X rays. I'm going to call him

703
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: n rays, and he named it after Nancy Town in France,

704
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: where he grew up. I feel like he should have

705
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: gone the whole kiting caboodle and called the Nancy rays

706
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: Nancy rays. Yeah. Uh. I was wondering why he didn't

707
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: call him are rays. I guess it's because it would

708
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: be raise. Uh. So he would later on say, because

709
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, he would do experiments. He said, oh, well,

710
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't work if you're looking right at the film,

711
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: which I mean, come on. But again I don't think

712
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: he was. It seems to me he was sincere in

713
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: his belief. Yeah, because he's not he's not trying to

714
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: builk people. No, he thought he had discovered something monumental.

715
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: And this was a time again when people were making

716
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: such discoveries. I mean, radiation had only been discovered just

717
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: a couple of decades earlier, so it was not that

718
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: big of a leap to think, oh, I found something

719
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: that we hadn't heard about just now, Like all, no,

720
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, we just discovered radio waves, electromagnetic radiation, Like

721
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: this is a time when people are finding this kind

722
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. But when it gets to the point where

723
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: he says, oh, you can only see it when it's

724
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: in the corner of your vision. Uh, some of the

725
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: physicists are physicians rather out there, said, there's you can

726
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: end up because of the way perception works. You can

727
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: end up imagining that you're seeing things out of the

728
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: corner of your eye when really there's nothing there. And

729
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: they said, that's a far more likely explanation that he

730
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: thought he saw the indicator light up, because why would

731
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: it not light up if you're looking right at it?

732
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: What what's the logic there? Why would a detector not

733
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: light up if you're looking at it dead on, but

734
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: it will light up if you're if you're looking at

735
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 1: it from the side of your eye. That just doesn't

736
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: make sense. I mean, there's any explanation of that would

737
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: fly in the face of what we know about the

738
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: human eye basically. And then, to make matters more complicated,

739
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: there were several scientists in France who claimed that they

740
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: were able to replicate the experiments, but no one else

741
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world could do it, which lead a

742
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: lot of scientists to say, either the scientists in France

743
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: are super extra special or they are deluding themselves. And

744
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: then Robert W. Wood ended up visiting blond Lowe's laboratory

745
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: to investigate the matter. And uh, first he had blonde

746
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: low call out when the in rays were fluctuating as

747
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: he as Wood would move an opaque lad screen in

748
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: or out of the pathway of the supposed in rays,

749
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: only say something when he thought he saw a change

750
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: in the rays right, right, he's looking for fluctuations in

751
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: the readings right, so he could not observe the movements

752
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: the right he so, so again, if you're thinking about

753
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: like a magic trick, which again Renee was not trying

754
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: to pull the wall over anyone's eyes. He legitimately thought

755
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: he was onto something. You have him in one space,

756
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: you have Wood in the other space they cannot see

757
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: each other. And then Wood's job is just to move

758
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: this lead sheet and in and out of the path,

759
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: and if it if it does so, it's supposed to

760
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: create these fluctuations, which then Renee Bludlow should be able

761
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: to see in his in his area and then call

762
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: out when the fluctuation since happened. And Wood said he

763
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: was wrong of the time, like he never got he

764
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: never called out a fluctuation when one should have happened,

765
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: and he called out fluctuations when nothing was going on.

766
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: Not accident right, But to make it even more uh blatant,

767
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: there was a point where would ended up working with

768
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: a piece of equipment blonde Low had said was would

769
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: allow you to split in rays up into various spectra

770
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: to be able to read off different wavelengths. And it

771
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: had an aluminum prism in it. So you would shoot

772
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: the D rays that the aluminum prison it would prism.

773
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: It would then split the D rays up and you

774
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: could read the different wavelengths. And so PRIs prism movably.

775
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: And so blonde Low has the inrays going, he reads

776
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: off the wavelengths and Wood says, oh, could you do

777
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: that again? I need to write those down, so blonde

778
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: Low goes to look at the wavelengths. Meanwhile, would surreptitiously

779
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: removes the illum in in prism, which means that there

780
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: is now no mechanism there for those wavelengths to get

781
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: split up. According to blonde Low, right, he said, the

782
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: whole purpose of the prism there's that splits the D

783
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: rays up into these wavelengths. And then Blondlow's magically able

784
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: to read off all the wavelengths because he believes he's

785
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: really seeing something. And Wood says, there's literally no way

786
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: for this to work the way you said it was

787
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: going to work, right, because I removed the part that

788
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: would have done it due to your own the constraints

789
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: of your own design, right, yep. And so then Blondelow was, uh,

790
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 1: you know it, kind of quietly went back to teaching.

791
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: And there were some reports that actually there are a

792
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: couple of different reports that were that have repeated the

793
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: story that Blondelow went mad and died a few years

794
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: later out of out of frustration. It's just so sad man.

795
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: But I read a report that said, no, he taught

796
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: in France for many years and died decades later. So

797
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: apparently there was a story that sirculates, so you have

798
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: to be skeptical even of the stories that circulated these people.

799
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: But I think I not, not even with that story

800
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: in particular. What I think is sad about it is

801
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: that he was sincerely trying to advance scientific progress and

802
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: maybe there was a little bit of ego wrapped up

803
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: in this, the idea of the idea that I renee

804
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: him the grand discoverer of this new groundbreaking thing. Um.

805
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it doesn't sound like he was

806
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: trying to con anybody. It sounds like he just conned himself.

807
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: And again that's that's where he was not really employing

808
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: critical thinking of skepticism. Because he he saw something he

809
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: wanted to believe that he had discovered something novel. And

810
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: that is a very powerful feeling, right like you joined

811
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 1: the giants, right, Yeah, like William Reich an Orgon, which

812
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: we have to mention at this point. Okay, and you've

813
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: already mentioned this, I think in previous episode. I don't

814
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: know that I've ever talked about Oregon in a previous episode,

815
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: mostly because you it to a point and those and

816
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: those stories where uh, you it gets so weird that

817
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: it's difficult to dig yourself back out again. Orgon, by

818
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: the way, gets into a lot of psycho sexual stuff

819
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: and it's very much connected to that. So we can, yeah,

820
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: you can find out more about we're going. It's it's

821
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: similar to this story because it's similar to the in

822
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: Rays story because it's the story of an inventor who

823
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: believes that they have found some sort of some sort

824
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: of fundamental energy force that has yet to be observed.

825
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: And this was Orgon was described as an esoteric energy

826
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: by its those my air quotes sounds, and it's discoverer

827
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: William Reich or Villa Mourick. And the problem with it

828
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 1: is exactly as you said, Jonathan, there was a lot

829
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: of stuff that depends did upon the subjective opinions of

830
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: the participants, and uh, there were a lot of increased

831
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: there was there was what I call claim creep, which

832
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: is it starts out as a pretty narrowly defined thing

833
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: and then it has more and more and more implications

834
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: and it goes to the psycho sexual power and it's

835
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: all like, well, maybe this didn't work because you didn't

836
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: clap your hands and believed. It reminds me a lot

837
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: of the of the I'm sure you've seen videos of it,

838
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: of demonstrations of supposed kung fu masters or karate masters,

839
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: masters of the martial arts who have mastered their cheat

840
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: to a point where they just make a gesture and

841
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: people fall over and uh, and it becomes sort of

842
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: this shared delusion between the person who is making the

843
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: movements and the people who claim that they were actually

844
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: knocked over by it. It also falls into that category

845
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: of people who go under hypnosis for like a stage hypnotist.

846
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: How they are willing to go along was something because

847
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: there is this expectation for an outcome social pressure. It's

848
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: a social pressure, right you. You're being watched by people

849
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: who want to see an outcome. That's a very powerful motivator.

850
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: It would be it would take a special kind of

851
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: person to go up on stage and defiantly not do

852
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: the things that were asked of him or her to do,

853
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: because you know that's not what the audience wants to see.

854
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: And now, this excellent point brings us to a brings

855
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: us to a pivot, I would say in today's show,

856
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: because up to now we've been up to now, we've

857
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: been exploring the often I'll say it often hilarious stories

858
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: of hoaxters or deluded people who were still being you know,

859
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: entertaining and at the worst, committing financial scam. They might

860
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: be taking money from mostly from people who have enough

861
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: money to lose mostly. But we're about to transition into

862
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: some much more serious matters and we'll get to that

863
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: in just a moment, But first we're going to take

864
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: another quick break to thank our sponsors. Now, this next

865
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: story is when I have talked about on Tech Stuff before.

866
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: It's one that I point to frequently when I talk

867
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: about why skepticism is so important because it can, like

868
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: like we said earlier, it can be a matter of

869
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: sort of entertainment, but it's also a matter of life

870
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: or death in some situations. And I've talked about these

871
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: guys before. But I want to talk about fake bomb

872
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: detectors because this was a big story, uh a few

873
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 1: years ago, almost a decade ago now, and I covered

874
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: it on Tech Stuff, even got to the point where

875
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: someone sent me one of the detectors that was the

876
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: originator of this whole thing, which was I think it

877
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: was just meant to be a novelty gift where it

878
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: was called the Gopher and it was meant to be

879
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: a golf ball detector, and all it is, it's it's

880
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: just a plastic handle and there is a telescoping antenna

881
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: that you on. One corner of the plastic handle is

882
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: mounted on a little swivel and so it acts kind

883
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: of like a dowsing rod. So if you twist your

884
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: wrist a little bit, it'll swing to the left or

885
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: to the right. Yeah, and it's meant to be, Oh,

886
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: you need to find your golf ball, whip this out

887
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: and it'll point your point the way to your golf ball.

888
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: And I thought, there's no way this is being marketed

889
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: as a real thing. I mean, there's obviously no way

890
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: for it to work. There's it's just a piece of

891
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: metal that's on a hinge connected to a piece of plastic.

892
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: There are no wires, there's no battery, there's there's nothing

893
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: that could even possibly create any sort of of effect

894
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: apart from the ideo motor effect, which is where we

895
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: make unconscious movements, and sometimes it's based upon what we

896
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: expect to happen. Right, So again, like dowsers, this this

897
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: is pretty much the way you do you explain dowsers

898
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: people who are at least uh earnestly in belief that

899
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: they have this ability, they cross over an area where

900
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: they think the thing that they're looking for exists, which

901
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: is not always water. It could also be some sort

902
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 1: of uh mineral. They yeah, it can be all sorts

903
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: of different stuff. It all depends upon. Like there're people

904
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: who claim that they can do all sorts of things

905
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: with dowsing, and then the whatever mechanism they're using for dowsing,

906
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: that maybe a pair of bent rods that can freely

907
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: swing back and forth. They yeah, and then they'll they'll

908
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: cross and then they'll say, oh, well, that indicates there's

909
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 1: water here. Most of the time it'll be something where

910
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: it's a where a person believes that that's where water

911
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: would be found. And they're not necessarily consciously doing this,

912
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: but they unconsciously are moving their hands in such a

913
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: way where they the arms cross and they say, oh,

914
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: here's a hit. The same sort of thing is that

915
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: this was for golf balls, um, And so what then

916
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: happens is, UH, there was a uh someone who decided,

917
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: let's take the same idea, but let's converted over uh

918
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: and claim that this same device can detect something much

919
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: more serious than golf balls. That person was Wade L.

920
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: Quatal Bomb, which is a heck of a name. Quatal

921
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: Bomb is a heck of a name used to be

922
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: a used car salesman. I'm going to refrain from making

923
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: the Carnival Barker joke, but quatal Bomb said that you

924
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 1: could pick up one of these devices that was sort

925
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: of like a pistol grip device with an antenna attached

926
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: to it. Has a cable attached to the pistol grip

927
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: that goes to a plastic case that you would fit

928
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: on your belt, and that you would take these cards

929
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: that would have a signature of whatever it was you

930
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: were looking for, right, so it's like some sort of

931
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: element of the thing you're searching for. You plug it

932
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 1: into the case, and then that was supposed to calibrate

933
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: the I so that it could detect anything that fell

934
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: into that category, which could include firearms, bombs, drugs. Later on,

935
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: there were claims from people who are marketing the similar

936
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: just total nonsense, that they could detect things like diseases

937
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: like HIV. So this is like radionics almost. Yeah, The

938
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 1: idea that like the sympathetic magical thinking, wherein we are

939
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: our minds quote unquote or part of the machine or

940
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: the process, the mechanical process. I think that's what it

941
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: depends upon, but I don't. That's not how it was marketed.

942
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: It was marketed that these were totally up and up,

943
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: just detectors that have no that that you could, in

944
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: theory just turn these turn it on, turn it on.

945
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: Doesn't even make sense. There was nothing to turn on,

946
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: but you could. You could just have these like sitting

947
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: on a post, for example, and there's no one holding it,

948
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: and that it would work just as well. That's insane

949
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: because the idea was that you know, hey, you got

950
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: metal detectors. Sure, Bill, detectors are able to detect detect metal,

951
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: why can't you have a device like this that can

952
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: detect bombs and stuff? Because they weren't. They weren't going

953
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: forward and saying like, here's the theory we have behind

954
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: why it works. They were just marketing it as a

955
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: product that works, so quad o bomb. He ends up

956
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: doing this, Um says we could detect all sorts of

957
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: stuff like drugs and explosives. The FBI ends up investigating him,

958
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: and UH finds that he had been selling these for

959
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands of dollars a pop and UH. He

960
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: and his business associates would eventually get charged with mail fraud,

961
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: but they all got acquitted. Don't know why, but a

962
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: jury acquitted them of all charges. Anyway, some people in

963
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: the UK heard about this and they poured it over

964
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: to the UK and they really ran with it. And

965
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: it was actually a group of folks, possibly a ring

966
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: like it might have been. There might have been some collaboration,

967
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: kind of a little scam ring, you know, they're all

968
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: running the same scam. Or it could literally be that

969
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: one of them heard about the scam and thought this

970
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: is a great way to make some extra dough. One

971
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,959
Speaker 1: of them would be James McCormick no no relation to Joe.

972
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: James McCormick is the one I talked about in previous

973
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: episodes of Tech Stuff, and he was ultimately arrested and

974
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: sentenced to ten years in prison and also was was

975
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: fined for uh. The fact that he was selling these

976
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: bomb devices largely in Iraq and Afghanistan, and most of

977
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: the the the rhetoric I've seen against him has been

978
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: about we don't even know how many people lost their

979
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: lives because they were dependent upon this technology that literally

980
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: could not work there was no mechanism in it for

981
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: it to work. So it's not that they just don't work,

982
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: it's that there's no way they could have worked. And

983
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: you know this like you were just putting these together.

984
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: In fact, some of the ones he had were literally

985
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: the gopher with a new sticker on it. So moves

986
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: this guy away from the sort of Slee's bag gradient

987
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: of being a con artist you have the snake oil salesman,

988
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: and into the completely reprehensible domain of being a war

989
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: profit here. Yeah, yeah, you could argue this is bordering

990
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: on what what we would casually refer to as being

991
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: a sociopath because they have no he has no real

992
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: consideration or care about what happens to the people who

993
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: buy the product. His famous detector that was, uh, the

994
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: one that was cited in most of the articles was

995
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: the A D E six five one, So if you

996
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: want to look that up, you can see what one

997
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: of these looks like. Uh. There were others who also

998
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: were arrested around the same time. Gary Bolton created a

999
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: company called Global Technical Limited. This was a different one

1000
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: than McCormick's, and he had the g T two hundred.

1001
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: He was also arrested in he was sentenced to seven

1002
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: years in prison. And Samuel Tree did the same thing

1003
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: in the UK and he was sentenced inten to three

1004
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: and a half years in jail. His wife got a

1005
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: sentence of three hours of community service, so she was

1006
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: let off fairly easy compared to the others. Now, as

1007
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: recently as there were still places that we're using these devices,

1008
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's still are to this day,

1009
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 1: but there were hotels in Pakistan that were using these

1010
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: two supposedly check people for drugs or explosives before coming

1011
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 1: into to the hotel. And you could again argue that

1012
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: this falls into that realm of security theater, except this

1013
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: is a theater where anyone who's paid attention knows that

1014
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: the act is terrible, right, Like it would be like

1015
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: walking up to somebody at at an airport security and

1016
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: they're literally just holding a wooden dowel and they say, well,

1017
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: I need to scan you for any potential weapons, and

1018
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: you look at them and you're like, are you gonna

1019
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: hit me? Like no, no, I'm just gonna run this

1020
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: up and down your body and if if the wood

1021
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: vibrates then I know, like okay, well this literally is

1022
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: doing no one any good, right, I agree completely. Our

1023
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: last example is a fairly recent one. In fact, it's

1024
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: the story that's still unfolding, and that is of Thoranos.

1025
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: Were you familiar with Thoranos? No, I was not, not

1026
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: until you had told me a little bit about it.

1027
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: Snaps his fingers and immediately like half the people are gone. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler,

1028
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: front of the spoiler. Okay, okay, okay, it's just a

1029
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: way of trying to make some light of what is it?

1030
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: Really a very serious thing. So yes, So tell us

1031
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: a little bit about Elizabeth Holmes. So, Elizabeth Holmes was

1032
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: determined early early on that she wanted to be a businesswoman,

1033
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: a successful businesswoman. From every interview I've read, every report

1034
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: I've read, she comes across as an incredibly motivated woman

1035
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: with a lot of drive and a lot of determination,

1036
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: perhaps more than is good for a person. But she,

1037
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: when she was going to Stanford, got an idea for

1038
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: a company, dropped out by age nineteen to work on

1039
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: this company. She had already launched it while she was

1040
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: in college, but decided to concentrate on a full time

1041
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: when she was nineteen and the company was going to

1042
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: produce a a wearable medical device that would monitor a

1043
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: patient's blood and then administer medication on an as needed basis.

1044
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 1: So imagine wearing something that is checking your blood sugar

1045
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: and can automatically administer insulin, that kind of thing sort

1046
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: of along those lines. But um, she then kind of

1047
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: evolved that idea and decided to try and create a

1048
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: technology that would allow you to run a whole battery

1049
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: of medical tests off a single drop of blood drawn

1050
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: from the tip of a finger, so you wouldn't have

1051
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: to draw blood intravenously through like your arm or a

1052
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: lot of Yeah, especially if you're like like I've had

1053
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 1: to go and give like two or three vials of

1054
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: blood in order for them to run tests on me

1055
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,959
Speaker 1: for for certain things, you know, and it's you know, yeah,

1056
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: not a lot of people are keen to do that.

1057
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: So if you were able to get that same amount

1058
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: of information just from one drop of blood, that would

1059
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: be amazing. And so she said that she was working

1060
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: on this technology, she had hired the right people to

1061
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,959
Speaker 1: uh to really develop it, and she really did hire people.

1062
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean, she had people really working on trying to

1063
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: make this a thing. It's not like this was all

1064
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: a scam. From the get go. She really was trying

1065
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: to get this to work. She got hundreds of millions

1066
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: of dollars in investments, and she decided that she went

1067
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: to UH emulate Steve Jobs and to have a company

1068
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: that was built on secrecy, siloed departments that were not

1069
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: allowed to talk to one another. She was supposed to

1070
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: be one of the only people who really knew what

1071
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: was going on, right, So she she's she's the all

1072
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: knowing she's the omniscient person. She and UH the president

1073
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: of the company's Sonny Bowani, who UH was in a

1074
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: relationship with her at the time, they're the only connective tissue, right,

1075
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: So they know everything that's going on, and they decide

1076
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: that they're going to keep getting investment money. They're going

1077
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: to keep pushing for this. They're going to talk up

1078
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: their technology even though it's not ready yet. There their

1079
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: staff is telling them, hey, the technology we're developing, it's

1080
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: great and all, except it's not reliable. It's not it's

1081
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: not where it needs to be. We need more time.

1082
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: It's They had a testing device called the Edison. They

1083
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: said that it's failure rate was very high. It was

1084
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: not reliable at all. There were meanwhile already opening up

1085
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: wellness centers and partnering with companies like Walgreens to put

1086
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: out test kits. And turned out that she was using

1087
01:03:55,080 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: a lot of standard medical equipment to actually run these tests,

1088
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: not the company's equipment, not thoranus Is equipment, because Thoraniss

1089
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: equipment wasn't reliable at all, but because she was only

1090
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: drawing this tiny you know, the kids only asked for

1091
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: this tiny amount of blood. These other off the shelf

1092
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: devices that have been used in standard practices for for years,

1093
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: they frequently would fail to just because there wasn't enough

1094
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: of a sample there. They weren't designed for a drop

1095
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: of blood that often had to be diluted with other

1096
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: liquids so that you would have a sample size large

1097
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: enough for the machinery to actually run the tests. So

1098
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: you had this company that was making huge amounts of

1099
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: money through investors and was offering up a product in

1100
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: stores in wellness centers, and they were running their actual

1101
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: tests on other people's equipment, but claiming that they were

1102
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: using their own, and eventually the floor fell out from

1103
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: under them. It took some time for that to happen.

1104
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 1: So she she was running this busines Is for more

1105
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: than you know, eight or nine years. UH. It wasn't

1106
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: until there was an f D a complaint that was

1107
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: happening in UH they started to investigate the company. They

1108
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: received reports that the medical tests were not accurate at all. UH.

1109
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal investigated them, and the report of

1110
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: that said that that was where it was revealed that

1111
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: they weren't even using their own equipment to actually process

1112
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: the tests. In the SEC and the centers for Medicare

1113
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: and Medicaid services also started to investigate the company. By

1114
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: July twenty six, Holmes received a band that stated she

1115
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: would not be allowed to work in the lab testing

1116
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: industry for two years. So in October, Toranos shut down

1117
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: its lab operations and as wellness centers, but the company

1118
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: continues to exist to this day. UH. The SEC then

1119
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: charged homes and Sonny and Thronos with fraud. In March,

1120
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: Holmes ultimately gave up financial and voting control of her company.

1121
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: She also agreed to pay a half million dollar fine

1122
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: and return nearly nineteen million shares of stock. She also

1123
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: said that she would not lead a publicly traded company

1124
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: for ten years, but Thoranos isn't a publicly traded company.

1125
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: It's a private company, so she remained as CEO of

1126
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: Thuranos for the time being. H On June eighteen, she

1127
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: finally stepped down as as CEO. Sonny had been ousted

1128
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: as president in twenty sixteen. She had kicked him out

1129
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: of the company already, so in June she steps down

1130
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: and she gets indicted by a grand jury on charges

1131
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: of wire fraud, as did Sonny. And so now we're

1132
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: in the wait and see phase of how if this

1133
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: goes to trial, you know, whether or I get settled

1134
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: or if it goes to trial. If it does go

1135
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: to trial, if she found guilty or innocent. If she

1136
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: has found guilty, she could face up to twenty years

1137
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: in prison and two fifty thou dollars of fines plus

1138
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: restitution on every account she has found guilty, and there

1139
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: are eleven counts against her. So possibly really bad news.

1140
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: And um, I mean, it's terrible news for anyone who

1141
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: worked for the company who was legitimately trying to make

1142
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: this a reality. But the feeling I get from the

1143
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 1: reports I read is that she had she was overly

1144
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,919
Speaker 1: confident in thinking that they were going to be able

1145
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: to deliver upon their promise as long as they could

1146
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: just keep running till you make it. Yeah, Like, if

1147
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: if we can just keep if we could just keep

1148
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: the illusion going a little bit longer, then reality is

1149
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: going to catch up and we're gonna be able to

1150
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: do what we said we were doing all along, and

1151
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: everything will be fine and no one will be the wiser. Um.

1152
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: That's the feeling I get when I was reading a

1153
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff. But there were also a lot

1154
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: of really negative reports about her behavior in general and

1155
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: like crazy security details. She hired her brother onto the

1156
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: company despite the fact that he didn't really have any

1157
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: any experience in the field at all. Uh, and then

1158
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: he went on to apparently bring on a a bunch

1159
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: of his frat brothers to work for the comedy. They

1160
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: were called the Thorana Bros. I think it was, so,

1161
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, not a great story, but again one of

1162
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: those where a lot of people who were more knowledgeable

1163
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: in the field said, being able to test just a

1164
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: single drop of blood from the tip of a finger

1165
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 1: for all of these different potential diseases and conditions seems

1166
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: too good to be true. It seems like this is

1167
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: a big, big ask and that it's something that is

1168
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: not likely to be possible, and as it turns out,

1169
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: they were right, it seems, and there's so many similar

1170
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: examples of scams and hoaxes like this. We we could

1171
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: spend an hour easily just on the strange claims about

1172
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: alternative power for automobiles. Yeah yeah, like one cup of

1173
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: water will make this car go six miles kind of thing,

1174
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:06,560
Speaker 1: don't worry about how yea or or there's numerous crowdfunding

1175
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: campaigns where people and I kind of covered that in

1176
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: a previous episode about crowdfunding campaigns where things were promised

1177
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: that sounded pretty spectacular and it turned out they were

1178
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: too spectacular to exist. So valuable lessons to learn um

1179
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: By this This is why, again, why skepticism and critical

1180
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: thinking are so important. It's because not only can it

1181
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: save you from perhaps getting swept up into the enthusiasm

1182
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: around something that doesn't have any substance to it, it

1183
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: could potentially save your life or the life of someone.

1184
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, if you look into something and you say,

1185
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like it's all on the up and up.

1186
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: And this is a very serious issue, so maybe we

1187
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 1: need to be more careful about it. Um. I mean,

1188
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 1: that's that's very valuable information. I mean, that's why these

1189
01:09:55,680 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: charges against homes are so serious because again, like the

1190
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: bomb detection kits, we're talking life or death kind of

1191
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: situations here. People are looking to find out if they are,

1192
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, if they have a specific condition or a disease,

1193
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: and if the test comes back negative but in fact

1194
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: they do have it, then they could be wasting time

1195
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,719
Speaker 1: that otherwise they might be able to use treating whatever

1196
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: that is, so uh, you know, or they might get

1197
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: a false positive which causes them undo stress while they

1198
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: try and chase down something that doesn't exist. I mean

1199
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: that it goes both ways with that, so anyway, kind

1200
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 1: of a bummer to end on, but I think it's

1201
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: important to talk about because it's it really drives home

1202
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: the point I was trying to make. Now, Ben, before

1203
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: I let you go, are there any any of these

1204
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: that are your particular favorite or or do you do

1205
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: you have any other ones that you were thinking of,

1206
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: like Chath and I really wish you had talked about

1207
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: this one. Oh. I think we mentioned some really cool ones,

1208
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: the water powered car or going itself, which is maybe

1209
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: something that you and I can dive into on stuff

1210
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. One of these days,

1211
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to have you in here and we're

1212
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Ingrams. Ingrams. That's gonna be. That'll probably

1213
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: the last episode of tech stuff. Is that the Ingrams

1214
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm off base here? Is that the

1215
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: personality test that tells you, based on four letters, four

1216
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: out of eight letters, what you are. No, that would be.

1217
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: That would be the Myers Briggs. Oh, that's what he's

1218
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 1: thinking about. Inagrams are where you hold a couple of

1219
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: little metal polls and you're asked questions about your personality

1220
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: and the person on the other side is possibly going

1221
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: to invite you to be part of a big organization. Yeah, yeah, dude,

1222
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: let's let's go to court together. Okay, that's all right. Well,

1223
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: if you want to listen to Ben bolan Uh, and

1224
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: you should because he's fascinating, you should definitely check out

1225
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: his shows. He's got stuff they don't want you to know,

1226
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: where you can learn all about various types of weird ideas,

1227
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: many of which have incredible validity to them, sometimes not

1228
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: in the way that you first expect. Then you could

1229
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: also listen to Ridiculous History and occasionally I'll pop on

1230
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 1: there and be really obnoxious, So we want to add

1231
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: this Thank you, Jonathan. Jonathan makes multiple appearances on both

1232
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: of those shows. Thanks for classing up the joint by

1233
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: the way, happy to do it. And uh, we have

1234
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: a running gag with him, be with his alter ego

1235
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 1: which we mentioned at the top of the show, the Quister,

1236
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: And we received some questions from people that essentially said, so,

1237
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: what so is it really a secret identity because we

1238
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: introduce him by we introduce you by your full name,

1239
01:12:55,400 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: and then just add quister Quister. So if you were

1240
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: hearing this, then you were also in on his secret identity.

1241
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: And we we invite you to check out one of

1242
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,600
Speaker 1: our favorite segments of ridiculous history. And thank you for

1243
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 1: having me on the show. Jonathan. Absolutely, And for anyone

1244
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: who doesn't know yet, I would I would like to

1245
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: get the scoop on these new shows I've been hearing

1246
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: about you working on through the grape vine. It's episode

1247
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: one thousand one. Why not. So we have a show

1248
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: coming out soon soon, probably being within by the end

1249
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: of the summer called The Brink. And this is a

1250
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 1: show that is all about really pivotal moments in businesses

1251
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: and and in entrepreneurs lives where things could have gone

1252
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:49,799
Speaker 1: one way or another and because of a tough decision,

1253
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: it unfolded a specific way. I like to call it,

1254
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: say it's it's when someone is taking a bold step

1255
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: and they don't know yet if there's going to be

1256
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: ground on the other side. That's cool, that idea of

1257
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: of the brink, So that that's should be going up

1258
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: towards the end of the summer, and then a little

1259
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: bit later there's gonna be something totally different where it's

1260
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: going to be a very geeky geek culture podcast that

1261
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing with a friend of mine. Actually I had

1262
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: been doing with a friend of mine for quite some time,

1263
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: and how stuff works said hey, why don't we rework

1264
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,600
Speaker 1: that show and bring it over here. So in the

1265
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 1: fall of not sure when yet, I just know what's

1266
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,719
Speaker 1: going to happen. Launch in the fall, We're gonna launch

1267
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: large nerd drawn collider and my friend Ariel and I

1268
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: will sit down and talk about the geekiest news out

1269
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 1: there and give context to it and uh, very different

1270
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: type of show than this one, but a lot of fun.

1271
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: And I think if you consider yourself a geek or

1272
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,679
Speaker 1: a fan of stuff that is in geek culture, whether

1273
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: it's the you know, it's ultimately all owned by Disney.

1274
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: We know that it's Marvel, Star Wars, Disney Films, whatever,

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01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: pretty soon twenty century Fox. Then we are pretty certain

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01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 1: that I'm pretty certain that everything I own is actually

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01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: leased from Disney at this point. Also behind the scenes,

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01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: and I'm sure longtime listeners, I'm sure you know this.

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01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 1: Jonathan is a huge Disney fan. I'm a Disney freak.

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01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: But large or drunk Collider is not just about Disney Sota.

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01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: Oh and so, so congratulations on these on these new shows,

1282
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: and congratulations we're old friends, Jonathan. You and I have

1283
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: hung out for the better part of a decade now,

1284
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: which is kind of spooky. Congratulations, uh, profound congratulations on

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01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: reaching not just episode one thousand, but one thousand and one,

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01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 1: and here's two, here's to another. At least nine. Probably

1287
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: hit those in a couple of years at the rate

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01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 1: that are increasing, the number that I'm putting out per week.

1289
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: But it's job security, right There we go, there we go. Well, guys,

1290
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff,

1291
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 1: send me a message. The email address is tech Stuff

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01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Or drop me a

1293
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: line on Facebook or Twitter. The handle there is tech

1294
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 1: Stuff h s W. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram.

1295
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 1: And yes, Mr bim Bolen, I'm raising my hands for

1296
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,759
Speaker 1: Jonathan because I want to return a long overdue favor.

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01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 1: If you're if there's something on if there's something on

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01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: this episode or any past or future episode of tech

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01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 1: Stuff that you found objectionable, if you have a bone

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01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: to pick or a knit to pick, please feel free

1301
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: to write specifically to the Tech Stuff conplaint Department, which

1302
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 1: is Ben dot Bowling at how stuff works dot com.

1303
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: I owe you. I have to make this right. I

1304
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: feel so good. I can't tell you how many times

1305
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: I've opened up an email and thought, why the heck

1306
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: am I getting this? Alright? Guys? Well, that wraps up

1307
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,640
Speaker 1: for this episode. Hope you enjoyed it. Looking forward to

1308
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: episode one thousand two, and I'll talk to you again

1309
01:16:51,920 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 1: really soon for more on this and thousands of their topics.

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Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com